The Charlie Kirk Show - From the Archive: Charlie vs Students on the College Scam

Episode Date: May 16, 2026

Charlie literally wrote the book on the college scam, so he was well-equipped to confront students and professors about whether a degree is worth its ever-rising cost, whether the lessons of college are actually worth learning, and more. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!    Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You've got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a turning point USA college chapter. Go start a turning point you would say high school chapter.

Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life and I encourage you to do the same. Here I am. Lord, use me. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go.

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So, yeah, so any business that has a 50% rate of a customer being scammed will be shut down by the federal government for disenfranchising their customers. You went to Chili's like, hey, 50% chance that our fries are going to give you food poisoning. So if you look at college more than just getting a job, more as educating the population, would you say that's a scam? Well, it depends on what you think college is and what it's become. Secondly, 41% of people that enter college don't graduate. The dropout rate's insanely high. That's true. I mean, what exactly is being taught here? It's a great question.

I mean, are you learning about the beauty of Western civilization and reading the Federalist papers of Hamilton and Madison and Jay? And do you get a positive view of America, or do you spend time on postmodernism of Michelle Foucault and Jacques Derrida and Jean-Sthefonic and Derek Bell? I'd say more networking. Oh, networking? Yeah.

Okay. Wait, before we go dive deep into it, what's your definition of a scam? Where a serious proportion of your customers are not given the value proposition that they pay for. Education, right. Which they're not getting. Yeah. You're saying, so therefore, and well, that's the question. You come here to get educated. You guys are going from the wrong thing. This is just a glorified credentialing exercise. Yeah, and that's what you're paying for, but therefore it's not. Okay, so we're not, it's not education. You're just paying for a piece

of paper so you can get a job. And education. I mean. Oh, is it education? So, are you, it is education. What does that even, what does that mean to you? Um, resources, learning how to work, learning how to move around a professional workforce. You need to go to college to learn that? Yes, yes, I'd say so. I think you're being scam, man. Take it from someone who didn't go to college. You don't need any of that stuff.

Yeah. Would you say a doctor would need a college degree? Of course, but the vast majority of kids here aren't studied to become a doctor. How many engineers are in here? Yeah, okay. So how many people that are studying social or liberal sciences? Social sciences? Yeah, a fair amount.

Okay. It's a personal choice. The vast majority of kids that go to college are social sciences, psychology, communications. About only 18 to 20 percent are studying engineering. And you say they shouldn't go to college. Well, it all depends. Again, it depends on what you're studying, why you're there. But this idea that engineering, you need a four-year degree, you could also just learn to code in six months and work for Salesforce and earn $180,000 a year.

Yeah, exactly. Yes, it is true. You have to go to college or learn to code? No, necessarily. Okay, that's my point. I'm not saying it's easy. You just need to go to college. Secondly, what does a manager of a Walmart, a Walmart super center make a year?

Anybody know? It's $400,000 a year. $400,000? Yeah, they don't require, yeah, you guys should just go become a manager of a Walmart doesn't require a college degree. What does the average plumber make in Scottsdale, Arizona? $150,000 a year. What is the average HVAC technician make in Henderson, Nevada?

$75,000 a year. But those don't require college degrees. There are 11 million job openings in this country right now that don't require college degree. We are over supplying college. But yeah, you're here taking advantage of college and college students. Am I taking advantage? Is that what I'm doing? You're taking advantage of the space, of taking advantage of the students,

not in a way of intellectually taking advantage. It's like going to a place to tell people you're being scammed. If you call that taking advantage, then so be it. I mean, you're taking advantage as you're taking my time, you're taking everyone's time. You're volunteering your time, too. I didn't force you. Sorry. Yeah.

You're taking our time. Fair enough. I do this also in other places than campuses, too. Yeah, no, but then you're here and then you're saying college is a scam. It is. Half of you guys will end up getting a job where your entire college debt burden means nothing. You will get a job that does not require a college degree at all. You're four years wasted.

You shouldn't have come here in the first place. Half. Oh, well, I disagree with you. All right. That's fair. I hope it's worth it. Have a wonderful day. All right, thank you.

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Your highest degree level is an honorary doctor's degree from Liberty University. That's true. I do have an honorary PhD. Yeah. So essentially, what are your qualifications? for arguing that college is a scam or really having any economical knowledge at all when likely the vast majority of the students here

know more than you about economics as a whole. Okay, so... No, hold on. It's okay, guys, it's okay. Who is Milton Friedman? Who is Milton Friedman? I have no idea and it's not important to this conversation. Who is Ludwig von Mises? These are all probably economists and the same thing.

Who is John Maynard Keynes? Okay, obviously I know who Keynes is. Oh, obviously, yeah. It's the most famous economist of all time. You don't know Milton Friedman? I mean, that's an economist. Okay. How about Murray Rothbard?

That's another economist. F.A. Hayek? I don't know who that is. Well, but you just came here and insulted my intelligence. You're right. I barely made it through Community College because I was too busy. I don't know, starting a national youth movement with hundreds of thousands of members. Hey, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Employing hundreds of people, raising hundreds of millions of dollars, having a top ten most popular podcast. Sure. reaching tens of millions of people online every day. Sure, but you're also calling all of your constituents idiots by saying they participate in a scam. Hold on a second. I'm calling the institution a scam. So then why?

I never insulted the intelligence. I just had 10 people come up and we had warm conversations. So you asked what are my qualifications. I'm a job creator, entrepreneur, auto-didact. Do you know what that word means? Self-taught. You know, you should probably learn that word if you're going to come up and insult other people's intelligence.

So auto didacticism is what Leader Noda da Vinci was. You don't have to go to college to be wise. You don't have to go to college to be intelligent. I read 100 books a year. I visit over 150 colleges. I'm not saying you're unintelligent. I'm just saying you last qualifications. Well, are you a New York Times bestseller?

Of course not. I'm in college. Got it. So I'm just trying. What are my qualifications? I have published books, read lots of books, dialogue a lot of people. And instead of asking what my qualifications are,

can you name one thing I've ever said that? Hold on. Name one thing I'm wrong about. You literally just now incorrectly cited the difference between socialism and communism. How so? How so? You claimed that Russia was socialist. Russia was never socialist.

No, it was a communist nation. There is a significant difference between the two. Why did Lenin say that socialism is the gateway to communism and he was self-described socialist in his private treatise and documents in the Russian Revolution? Lenin was overtaken by Stalin. Hold on a second. No, Lenin died and then Stalin was his successor. Yes. So, but Lenin himself said, quote, that socialism is the introductory phase to communism.

Did you not say that? So then the vast majority of people when they're referring to communist Russia are referring to Stalin's rule over Russia. That was a communist rule that turned into a fascist rule later on. Okay, so, but what thinker was deified in Soviet Russia? What thinker was deified? Yes. Marx. Oh, and what book did Marx write?

Yes, he wrote Capital, and he also wrote the Communist Manifesto. Who is his co-author? Who is co-author? Engels. Good. I'm glad college is really paying off for you. Hey. So, no, but it's okay.

It's fine. He comes up here and insults my intelligence. What are your qualifications? Doesn't even know the co-author of the Communist Manifesto or Dostopat. But no, let me just... Again, but is my lack of knowledge on that mean that I have no knowledge? Again, is that the same thing? You came up here, guns of blazing, man.

And let me just ask, again, what did I say that was wrong? I said that under the generally agreed upon definition of, communism and socialism, which are interchangeable terms, one is a more harsh degree of the other, is that the elimination of the family, the elimination of private property, and the deprivation of basic human rights such as right to speech, right to assembly, and right to worship. How is that not a good definition of communism and socialism as per the doctrine? But in the communist manifesto, Marx said, quote, we are here to destroy the nuclear family and eradicate the family because it was the original oppressive tyrannical structure.

He said religion is the opiate of the masses and that private property must be eradicated. I have just now documented all three of those with evidence back to original source documents. And then in practice, Russia did all those three things when they were the Soviet Union. So where am I wrong? But then at the same time, if you claim that those are all negative things, then why do you practice certain things in the doctrines that you just stated? I'm not trying to take people's stuff away. I want people that have bigger families. want churches to remain open.

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And you were trying to explain how white privilege doesn't exist. Correct, it doesn't. You are a white man. How do you know? Because I have eyes. Because you have eyes. That's not a description. So what can a black person do that I can't do in America or vice versa?

What can I do a black person do? Let's think of some history right here. Let's go to the history of redlining. I don't need a history line. Listen, no, you're talking about white privilege. You do need a history lining. Clearly, you need a history lesson. I know your talking points better than you do, and I've read all those literature that you have.

I'll probably forgot more about the literature. History affects the present day as well, and you know that's true. If you went to college, you would know. Well, hold on a second, but let me. Then why are you wearing the college of a scam shirt? Drop out. Well, because you could. So it's because you don't believe your own beliefs, and that's what I'm saying.

Well, you can admit something's a scam and still get through it. That's why he's wearing it. Well, then why? You can feel like you're getting ripped off by an airline. That's not what we're talking about anymore. You're like, I'm getting ripped off about a thousand dollar ticket, but you still get on the airplane. Like it doesn't make you a hypocrite.

It means that the people are ripping you off. And a lot of you are getting ripped off. But no. So as far as white privilege, just without the history lesson of, you know, Jim Crow, segregation, imperialism, colonialism, slavery, all the stuff that I know that you're going to say. But just concretely, in America today,

what can a white person do that a black person can't do? Black applicants to jobs are 50% less likely to get jobs. with a black sounding name. That's not even close to being true. That's not even close to being true. That is a literal. In fact, it's the opposite. I'm not going to argue your lived experience.

I'm not going to know. See, now you have to listen to him under your rules because a black person is going to say you're wrong. I am. He can say him wrong. Come on up to the mic. My name is Keemann Dixon. I have a really black name.

Please tell me how 50% of my internships have been denied when I've worked for Senator Mike Lee, Mayor Trent Sacks, speaker Mike Schultz. Hold on. I've worked for a congressman, Burgess Owens. I've actually worked on his campaign. I've worked on the campaigns of John Husman Jr. Please tell me how my black experience and my black man has not given me shit.

Go ahead. So you create a company that's like close to being a fascist and then like, how am I? Sorry. Let's go through this. How am I a fascist? Dude, like you can you name one thing I believe that? that's fascist? You believe that.

You aren't... I'm such a bad fascist. I let the people who disagree and open mic to talk to me for two hours uninterruptive. I'm an awful fascist. I'm more like a free speech liberal than 1970s, not a fascist.

But I just want to say, Turning Point USA is a evil company that was funded by thousands of fracking companies and that just... No, it's not thousands, but we do have some frackers that give us money. But yeah, and then all it is is making the rich more rich.

Fascism to fracking. That's all it is. That's all it is. Okay, again, I'm happy to have a debate. I can see you're getting kind of fired up. I'm sorry. But why are we evil? Like, we're having a nice discussion.

You're calling me like a fascist. It seems like you just want the rich get even more rich. We haven't talked about the rich at all. I mean, so you don't even know my positions on this stuff at all. The wealthiest people absent. Elon Musk are all on the left. Jeff Bezos, George Soros, Mark Benihaw, Mark Zuckerberg, Lorraine Powell Jobs. On the left, yes. Can you name one tech CEO outside of Elon Musk that is a conservative? I personally think. Peter Thiel? Yeah, that's one. That's one. Larry Page, Google,

on the left, worth $120 billion. Sergey Brin, Google, $130 billion on the left. Lorraine Pell Jobs, Mackenzie Bezos, Jeff Bezos. If they're on the left, what has they done that was, like, quote-unquote, to do the left stuff? Well, okay, so Larry Page gives money to left-wing NGOs all the time. Like, if you're on the left, I don't think you would ever be this rich. Well, they are. You know why? Because they're not.

No, because they're not. The left is a scam. The left uses people. How is this? Let me tell you why. It's a good question, actually. The left uses people like you that think that, oh, we're going to fight the rich. Well, they protect their oligarchy.

While you guys have to keep on working hard and never own anything, when we conservatives are the ones that actually want to restore the American middle class and bring jobs back to this country. How would you restore? Let me finish. The left uses people like you every day. All right. If you are like me, you are looking at summer thinking about all the fun stuff that you want to do,

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Dude, I have never seen a leftist organization come to campus spreading their propagandas. Because the whole university is a leftist organization spreading top of Canada. There's a clear-cut difference between a leftist and a liberal. You're coming after this in a good way because every major powerful, wealthy person in the country, over $100 billion in that worth, with the exception of one person, Elon Musk, is on the cultural left and gives money to the left. And you guys give them a free pass because you think that we're fascists when in reality

we're the ones that are actually fighting to destroy the oligarchy the most. Okay, last question. Last point. Last question. So you do want to fight for the American middle class. And how? Yes. How does free, freer to market, like, how is with the middle class? Well, again, I want precision in free markets, but I... How does free market support the middle class? Again, I'm not puritanical, but I think that generally more choices are a good thing.

I think that generally supporting entrepreneurs is positive. but I think that mass immigration is really bad for American workers. There's no mass immigration. First of all, how many people are... Wow. Well, you're right. There is mass invasion, but... But how many people are coming across the southern border every day?

I don't know, but like... I'm actually generally curious. Can you guess? Okay. On what time frame? Every day. Every day? $500? Yeah.

At a low point, it's at 10,000. right now was 15,000 last month. So what is that annualized? Let's play that out. A lot. That's a lot. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. That's mass immigration, right? How many green cards do we give out every year? Probably a lot? Yeah, a lot. About 1.2 million. Well, what's wrong with giving our green cards? I'm not saying you're no mass migration. So I'm just trying to tell you, we do have mass migration, right?

We have 3 million on the southern border, and then we have a million green cards. That's 4 million a year, right? Which is basically bigger than most U.S. states. Now, everything comes to the cost. When you have a cost, mass migration, you're going to get lower wages. But that means you're going to disenfranchise American workers. Are you studying computer science? Yeah, I am. Okay, so you're an American born, I'm guessing, American race? I don't want to assume. I wasn't, but okay. I moved to the U.S. Okay, well, you're an American now, I guess. I don't know, maybe. Yeah, I am. Student Visa. Okay, you're going to now have to compete. You're kind of proving my point, but that's a separate issue.

You're now going to have to compete against foreign labor for your computer science jobs. I think we have a moral obligation to American-born workers to give them preference and priority and restrict the labor supply so that our computer science majors can have higher wages not to have suppressed wages so some tech CEO can bring in a bunch of Indians and suppress their...

No, nothing against Indians, but just bring down their wages. Personally, I just think that if you came to America and then receive a green card, I think you get to work however you want. Okay, yeah, I think that American-born citizens should be a priority because they're American citizens. Well, as long as you're a different. I actually think you must have

a priority to your own citizens or else you don't have a government. You have something else. If you don't have a priority to your own people, I don't know what you have. You have a colony, not a country. You're just a big economy. And that's fine. If that's your position, by the way, your position is held by the ruling elite, where I think that

we should have a country, not just a colony, where the American-born citizens should be given preference over foreigners. Nothing against foreigners. I think they're nice people, but the Americans should be given first preference. And by the way, any sane country believes that. We're like the only country in the world that says, and certain European countries, come on in and take whatever you want. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.