The Charlie Kirk Show - Jake Metcalf on Enduring the Unendurable

Episode Date: July 6, 2026

After ten months of waiting, alleged Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson is finally facing a preliminary hearing. Erika is in the courtroom and the CK Show team is streaming the entire process. During the breaks in today's hearing, Andrew and Blake talk to prosecutor Jay Town about the unfolding process and the defense's strategy, and then Austin Metcalf's father Jake gives a moving meditation on forgiveness, overcoming loss, handling vile attacks, and other obstacles that only a handful of people can truly understand. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!    Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with noble gold investments at nobelgoldinvestments.com. That is noblegoldinvestments.com. All right, welcome back, everybody. We are monitoring the first day of the preliminary hearing in the state versus Tyler Robinson. And there was a lot of back and forth going on about exhibits. I saw some reports saying that, you know, they weren't going to show any of the evidence, but actually that was a motion or that was a move made by the defense, not the state. The state is moving

to show them all, but the defense has a concern about those being displayed or published, quote unquote published before they've been admitted as evidence. So that's the back and forth going on there, which is, which is interesting. I do have some notes on that that. the hearing started with arguments over publishing of evidence beyond the courtroom per the defense request per the defense the state wants evidence published defense doesn't want anything to be public especially prior to the judge admitting his evidence so that's the central tension there we've got j town former prosecutor that is going to be joining us in just a second and we also have which I think is a very important guest.

We have Austin Metcalf's father, and that's Jeff Metcalf. He's going to be joining us. I just reached out to him because there's very few people that can understand the torment that Erica Kirk and Rob and Catherine Charlie's parents are experiencing right now, just having to be in the courtroom with Tyler Robinson. I can only imagine the agony that they are currently experiencing. So please pray for Erica, pray for Rob and Catherine, pray for the whole team, the larger team that's in Utah today. And it is true.

Don Jr. is in the courtroom by Erica, Rob, and Catherine's side standing in solidarity with them. So we appreciate Dawn for doing that. Blake, any thoughts? I'm going to pull something together here. I mean, we just, we told you last week, we're committed to seeing this process through from beginning to end. So we know this is a little unusual from our normal show, but it's exactly what we want to be doing in this moment. We want to, there's been so many false claims about this process online. There's been so many, there's been so much, I think, agitation, because people have been waiting for this.

They want to see the process of justice play out. And because it was, there were so many delays, a lot of other stuff in true. intruded and we're so glad we're finally at this point where we're seeing witnesses come up we're seeing people talk about it and we're committed to showing every minute of it that we're able to yeah um so the we got like i said we've got j town and we've got uh austin metcalf's father um yeah so this is interesting too so there was a you just heard the last witness before they took the break. It's actually a UVU police officer. I'm not sure his name presently, but essentially he said he heard a shot. And then he was asked what kind of shot. He said it was a, it sounded like

a rifle because it was louder. He seemed to be familiar with the type of shot. So, you know, the internet's going to be full of all these alternate theories. Here's the police officer that was on duty that day saying, I heard a rifle shot. Okay. So that's a, that's a, that's a, key piece of evidence there. Here we go. The defense attempted to object to entering the first exhibit, a photo of the courtyard in for publication. The state of Utah said, is this photograph a fair and accurate depiction of the area of UVU campus on September 10, 2025? Defense, Your Honor, we would object to inability to inauthenticate. There's not been a foundation laid that this officer took this photo can verify when it was taken or by whom it was taken so we would object so

this is the sort of back and forth that is going to play out over the next couple of days we are being sort of warned that this is going to be typical that you know they're going to present evidence there's going to be objections it all is very procedural and i mean i don't know that there hasn't been a whole heck of a lot presented yet but there hasn't there was a mention of meth that I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get clarity on. Oh, also, Judge Graff has entered in a picture for evidence of the screwdriver found by Officer Bagley. So that's his name, into the record. I will go ahead and admit.

So that was a direct quote from Judge Graff. So that was the officer that heard the rifle shot. Officer Bagley, he apparently was the one that discovered the screwdriver on top of the building. building allegedly used for assembling, disassembling the rifle. Yeah. And I, you know, I know there's some controversy over assembling or disassembling, so we'll hold on that and not make any judgments until the evidence is presented in court. So that's about where we're at right now.

You know, we weren't expecting, oh, we have Jay on the phone right now. All right. J-town. are you there i am here i'm here so sorry we weren't able to do video today but uh but that's okay it's better they're they're staring at you anyway no no that's great i appreciate it jay i know we've been it's very difficult to kind of predict the clock uh for this uh hearing they keep kind of suggesting they're going to have a break at one time and then it either goes long or they get delayed on the first uh you know the first marker and so then everything that the timeline is

shifting, but I guess that's what we have to expect this week. All right. So Jay, you have been monitoring this hearing, right, very, very closely. You're a career prosecutor, you're a former U.S. attorney. Tell us what you have observed from this hearing thus far. Well, a couple of things. One, from the prosecution perspective, they've been very meticulous. You know, anytime you put a witness on, especially a professional like a police officer. which my understanding is there's going to be four police officers to testify to probably 40 or 50 different exhibits. And you're going to go through their experience. You're going to go through, you know, where they were on that day.

And then they're going to start to really, really narrow the focus about everything that they saw that is relative to the crime. You mentioned I heard a rifle shot. And why do you say that? Well, because a pistol, a firearm, they make different noises. And you can tell a pistol shot from a 30-od-six. And so that was, I think, you know, pretty interesting considering some of the tinfoil hat crowd out there, right? But at the same time, the defense counsel is going to make this as laborious as possible. There are no rules of evidence in a preliminary hearing.

Yet they've objected to every single exhibit thus far based on something. Now, let me just say it for everybody, if, you know, your daughter or a friend takes picture of your backyard, just because you didn't take the picture on that day, and maybe you weren't even in the country on the day that picture was taking, you can still authenticate a picture of your backyard as a fair and accurate depiction of your backyard. And that's all he was asking the officers to do. Frankly, I've had Google Earth images authenticated by police officers or by the owner of the wherever that the Google Earth was depicting. So defense is going to make this laborious.

The thing about that is if they do that in front of a jury, a jury will hate them because they are just dragging it on, just making it hard unnecessarily because all the objections are overruled and then the evidence comes anyway. So we would just waste another 20 minutes because you guys wanted to jump up for some preservation of the record objections. that was meaningless. Yeah, and so you think that this is just a preliminary trial tactic then, Jay, that they will, do you think that?

I mean, it could be, you know, but typically you just wouldn't, you know, your prelim hearing tactic and your trial tactics, they're about the same thing. And if we're, you know, if, you know, history is in the indicator, they've objected to everything. They've been a very litigious defense group. And so I don't know that they're not going to object to everything on the record, build a record, because they know, here's the thing. The reason you do that. The reason why you look scared is because you are scared because you know there is overwhelming evidence against your client.

And the only way to save his life is to hope for an appeal, an appellate court somewhere that says, you know what, that judge shouldn't have overruled that. it should have been sustained and yada yada and therefore you got to have a new trial well okay well we're just going to take a plea deal now because it's 15 years from now and some of the witnesses are dead or or don't remember it's just an old case um and uh and that's the hope that's the tactic i've seen it done over and over again there's nothing new here the evidence is overwhelming against Tyler is in the indictment, right? I mean, just the, but the evidence itself, and we haven't even heard from, you know, the lover and the parents from Tyler Robinson where admissions were likely made by

Tyler Robertson. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, we've got an exhibit. I mean, they're, they've got a list, right, of exhibit. that they're planning on, right? So we've got the drone image of UVU, photo of the screwdriver, daytime photo of sniper perch, photo of sniper purge,

video of mother with children in crowd, written statement, video of shooting from behind, the questioner, written statement, video of shooting from behind, Charlie Kirk, written statement, video of shooting from behind the booth, photo of the rifle in the bushes, photo of the rifle in the bushes, photo rifle and box, medical examiner report, UVU surveillance, doorbell camera,

and then they've got recorded statement from Lance Twigs. So, I mean, there's a ton here. I want to talk to you about an issue so many Americans face, and that's health insurance. There's an organization I really, really appreciate, called Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a faith-based alternative to health insurance. And this is real stuff, folks. Like, you've got to listen in. With CHM, you're not paying into a company's profit margin.

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starting at just $150 a month. Plus, you can enroll or switch your program at any time. See why so many believers are taking a leap of faith. Start today by visiting ch ministries.org slash Charlie and use promo code Charlie for a 50% credit towards your first month. That's ch ministries.org slash Charlie and use promo code Charlie. You know, Jay, it begs the question because I saw some people mentioning this on social media. You know, other lawyers kind of chiming in.

And I don't know if this is specific to Utah law, but there was some people that were sort of saying, I'm surprised they didn't waive the preliminary, the defense didn't waive the preliminary hearing. What do you make of that? Is that even an option in the state of Utah, first of all? and assuming that they had a choice one way or the other, can you surmise tactics from either decision? Well, I am surprised, frankly, that they didn't waive the preliminary hearing. The prosecutor said that they have received, that the defense counsel has received every piece of evidence. So it's not like they're just wondering, is there any evidence against Tyler Robinson?

They've received at all. They know that the evidence is overwhelming. So why err it all this week? When there's not even any rules of evidence, right? So anything that might be inadmissible is not inadmissible this week. And what's happening is the world is watching. People are hearing the evidence against Tyler Robinson, no longer were defense counsel be able to hide against the tinfoil hat crowd

and hope that they can draw some of those jurors for the actual jury trial because there won't be any legs for the tinfoil hat crowd to stand on because it will be so overwhelming. The admissions, the ballistics reports, the fingerprint, the DNA, some of the other evidence that likely exists that hasn't even been commented on yet. And so wave it. I mean, that's not like that's the other thing is that it's not like this is going to be sworn testimony from eyewitnesses, where they said they saw a small dog one day, and then on the stand they say they saw a puppy, and they try to make reasonable doubt out of that. The hearsay is admissible.

So, you know, the officers, when they're having these conversations with other people, and they testify about those conversations, that would be hearsay at trial. So there's really no ability to impeach on that hearsay, because it won't even be admissible at trial. You have to actually call the witness. So, again, it's just a – I don't know that this defense team, is the dream team. That's kind of the conclusion I'm reaching at the moment. Any thoughts?

It's just, I've been expressing all this bafflement to people that it seems every time there's a famous trial, the rules are totally different. We obviously have 50 states, but it's all just very overwhelming, so we're very grateful to have you here, someone who's experienced, to walk us through this. I thought I've had, I know they say they plan for this to, take about the week. It's going to be full days other than Wednesday they have a half day. Is there any chance this ends surprisingly early or goes surprisingly long? Could this go into the next

week? With this defense team, it's possible. I mean, the prosecution really, if the judge allows things to move along, the prosecution really should be done today. Most of the stuff is just being entered like the medical exam. I mean, they have to prove that Charlie Kirk did in fact die. and that he died from a gunshot wound, and then it was deemed a homicide by the ammany. So those, I mean, those are all just sort of admitted pro forma. A lot of these exhibits will be admitted pro forma. So they should be done today, maybe first thing in the morning.

But this defense team, for some reason, they want to drag their client through and let the whole world see just how guilty he is. and, you know, maybe poison the jury pool. Maybe that's the only tactic that makes sense here is that they're trying to make voir dire so hard because everybody has seen such overwhelming evidence of Tyler Robinson's guilt. Well, so you say they could get it all done today.

So, for example, the Lance Twiggs statement that they have, that they can't cross-examine. But are we going to hear the whole statement? Are they going to give a summary of the statement? Are they just going to state? Show the video? We have this. and, you know, we'll get into it.

It's a video interview that they did with them. So I would presume, Jay, that they're going to show the whole thing, right? Or at least they're going to show the video. They are. Or at least play the audio of it if the judge doesn't want to show it, which is, that's fine. If I'm the state at this point, every piece of evidence I'm putting in because you guys are making me go through this ridiculous process. You know what your client did, so does he.

But you want to go through it? fine. I am going to paint the most guilty person that ever lived for the whole world to see and behold. So I'm not pulling punches if I'm the prosecution at this point. You're going to make me waste a week on this? Fine. Guess what? Your guy is going to look like the most guilty person that ever lived. And he is. So go ahead, stay to Utah. Yeah, interesting. So you think the tactics here then, and maybe I'm reading into what you said, Jay, is that they're going to make this laborious. They're going to make it as painful as possible. Maybe either just to keep pushing the psychology, maybe taint a jury pool. Do you think that there's a tactic here where they're trying to get the evidence out

so that because the Internet does what the Internet does with this stuff and the tinfoil hot crowd, as you call them, are they banking on that, do you think? It could be. I mean, they could just be banking on breaking the will of the prosecution. that they just don't have it in them, the energy to fight for the Kirk family, for Charlie Kirk. And it very well could be that they think that maybe they'll just give up and give them life without parole. I don't think that's going to happen. Yeah.

It better not happen. Yeah. But I mean, look, all these strategies are losers, guys. That's the thing you got to remember from the defense perspective, the defense lawyers' perspective, everything they do. do is going to cause a loss, right? Their guy is going to be found guilty and likely sentenced to death. So if that's the case, then, I mean, what strategy isn't worth trying, right? That's a really, I think that's a really interesting point. Yeah. Yeah, when you, when you sort of like, don't have the evidence on your side and there's not a whole lot of outs, you're just kind of throwing stuff at

the wall to see if you could get the judge to do something. That could trigger a mistrial or get it reversible on appeal. I find that like a really interesting psychology for the defense, to be honest. People keep speculating that the defense might be hoping on can we get a weirdo on the jury who's just going to who'd be open to thinking Israel did this. The Trump administration did this. I imagine it's basically malpractice for the lawyer to openly play to that and they don't want to end up getting disbarred. But would that be in the back of their heads that the longer we drag this out, the more crazy people there will be? And that could improve our odds of a mistrial?

Well, perhaps. I mean, you do broaden the pool. The longer the crazies get to run around on the Internet, then the more crazies there might be. But look, the prosecution is going to have a team of people scrubbing social media, scrubbing chat rooms, everything they can get their hands on to be looking. looking for anything as it relates to Charlie Kirk. And there are 12 people in the state of Utah that haven't formed an opinion about Tyler Robinson's guilt, but also don't subscribe to the tinfoil hat crowd, I guess, as I'm going to continue to call them. Because, you know, I mean, they can be fair-minded, open-minded. They have to be able to subscribe to the death penalty. That'll

be difficult in state of Utah as well, a very conservative, very religious state. But here in great state Alabama, you know, we do it on the regulars. And, you know, some people can get past it because justice is important. So, again, the defense counsel, they're going to try every single tactic. They're going to try to break the will of the prosecution, and that ain't going to happen. Yeah, I don't really see. I mean, when you've got this much evidence, right, Jay, you would think that the prosecution is sort of willing to go through brick walls if they have to, you know all these objections all this procedural stuff i mean i i can't uh i can't imagine that they um that they would be cowed by that all right so we're going to go back to the hearing j town

thank you so much for for joining uh we're going to be in close contact this week my friend thank you so much i appreciate it you got it thank you hi folks andrew colvette here i'd like to tell you about my friends over at y refi you've probably been hearing me talk about y refi for some time now we are all in with these guys. If you or someone you know is struggling with private student loan debt, take my advice and give them a call. Maybe you're behind on your payments. Maybe you're even in default. You don't have to live in this nightmare anymore. Why Refai will provide you a custom payment based on your ability to pay. They tailor each loan individually. They can save you thousands of dollars and you can get your life back. We go to campuses all over America and we see student after student

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Lots of information there that was just gone through. and we see the defense cross-examining officer bagley you know we hear about the sniper's nest the impressions on the ground how officer bagley you know first experience the noises the sound of the shot um what he put in his police report very procedural uh very by the book everything feels very deliberate um these are my general I don't I don't I don't see anything that's surprising yet but noteworthy certainly I mean you see it I was I was messaging a friend of mine it's a little remarkable obviously it's such a high profile case than when you see these police officers being asked what were you on campus for oh there was a

guest speaker that day do you know the name of that guest speaker yes I do yeah and they are really they're laying that all out but this gets back to you want to make sure everything is entirely by the book as this goes through precisely because it's so high profile precisely because there are people who will seize on literally anything they possibly can to we believe help help the person we believe is guilty escape full culpability yeah you're right it's the the the sort of procedural nature of it is fascinating to watch actually you know so you've got officer bagley so he says yeah i signed up for for an overtime shift for this for this event and the way that they have the exhibits so that they're not displayed

publicly. I think this is an interesting clip to show just to kind of go through the way that, you know, the step-by-step process that has to be followed here based on Judge Graff's instructions. So he actually has to get off the witness stand to go and point where he found the screwdriver. So you don't actually get to see it, but he's off-camera pointing to it. Let's go ahead and play it just as a good example. SOT 23. Go ahead and publish Exhibit 3.1. Officer Bagley, so you testified that this is the screwdriver as you saw it on September 10th, 2025, correct?

Yes. I'm going to, and this was on top of which roof? Low C building. And in relationship to the entrance, the stairway and when you hopped over the rail to get there, where was it located? About 10 or 15 feet in. Okay. If I could, Your Honor. bring up state's exhibit number two that was previously admitted.

I would like to have Officer Bagley come down from the witness stand and point on that exhibit approximately where this screwdriver was located. So if you can describe where you saw that screwdriver, point to that. Yeah, so this is the Losey building right here with the light gray. Here's the guardrail in the center of the pitcher with the red brick. Just over that, about 10, 15 feet in, about right there. you you can take your seat again um so that was interesting the other the I think that's just a good example of how he has to we have to navigate these exhibits so that they're not published um just a

quick programming note for anybody watching on the stream uh we have uh jet mac metcalf austin metcalf's dad just about to join us um and I know he's got some words of encouragement for Erica um you know speaking of which uh there's an interesting report here. I'll try and get the graphic for everybody here. This is, I've confirmed that this is actually a reporter inside the courtroom. Here, there's, I guess this is, let me get the name of this reporter. Senior National Correspondenton for News Nation, Brian Enton. If you could throw that graphic up when you get it, just like a screen grab of the tweet, but he said, seen from inside the Tyler Robinson courtroom, Erica Kirk was crying before the hearing started. Donald Trump

juniors in the front row with his wife. Tyler Robinson was laughing with his attorney before the hearing started. Erica left during the description of the shooting. So I mean, I just think it's like important just to kind of understand that this is, you know, there's a lot of noise, there's a lot of attention on this. There's a lot of, you know, back and forth. I'm sure some of you have seen my, my Twitter back and forth with Candace or Blake's. all that's noise because actually what is really important here is the fact that these are human beings that are dealing with this awful experience and i just can't imagine um being in that courtroom right now uh and the fact that erika has to do that and be in front of all those people or something she is a i mean she's a victim here and uh you know rob and katherine kirk charlie's parents as well

And we should note, we've seen, Erica has never seen a video of the shooting. She's never really listened closely to a description of it. She does avoid doing that. And so when he says she walked out, she's walking out because the officer is describing what he saw and what happened. And that's still very challenging for her. Yeah, absolutely. And I believe we have, our guest is just about ready. Jeff Metcalf. Again, I reached out to Jeff because there's very few people, especially in sort of the more

recent, you know, days and weeks and months that could relate to what Eric is going through. And Rob and Catherine, of course, Charlie's parents more than Jeff. And so Jeff Metcalf, Austin Metcalf's father joins us now. Jeff, welcome to the show. And thank you so much for making the time. I see you're wearing a beautiful shirt there, sir. Thank you. Thank you for having me on. Yeah. You know, with you, it's kind of easy because I'm not talking about details of the case. I'm not talking about procedural, you know, elements that the lawyers are throwing out there.

I just want to hear from you. And I'm sure Erica and Rob and Catherine, Charlie's parents would love to hear from you too because you've been through something terrible and tragic. awful and you've experienced the crazy media attention and the social media of it all and you know you were a victim because you lost your your son and you had to go through hell to get justice for him and so the floor is yours sir we'd love to hear what you what you want to tell erika what you want to tell rob and katherine in this moment well first my condolences go out for them says there aren't really words that can make you feel better.

But knowing that someone has gone through and understands maybe what you're feeling gives you a little bit more comfort when it comes from them. But I just tell them, you know, I know they're strong in their faith. So am I. And that's what's gotten me through so far for me. But sitting in that courtroom for the first time ever. facing the person that's accused of murdering, you know, either your spouse or your child, it takes a range of emotions.

It's a roller coaster ride while you sit there. And to be able to maintain and keep your thought process coherent is very challenging at the least. There's a million different emotions that pulls you a hundred different ways. You know, there's the, there's the human side of you that sits on your shoulder and whispers in your ear the things you really don't want to hear or shouldn't hear. And then there's the little guy on this side of shoulder who whispers in your ear and tells you what you should do and what you shouldn't do and what you, who you try to be. It goes back to an old Indian story about the young lad who asked the chief, you know, what's inside of us? And he said, well, there's two wolves that live inside you.

one live is full of hate, anger, fear. And the other one is love, compassion, kindness. And the young Indians said, well, which one wins? And he said, the ones you feed the most. So it's the same thing with emotions when you have, like, for forgiveness. For me, people, when, because this is what happened, when Erica stood up there and said, she forgave him. That was the same exact thing.

I did. And my phone started blowing up because they're like, oh, my God, you know, she, she just forgave him just like you. And I said, people don't understand forgiveness. Forgiveness is for me. So I don't carry hate, anger, revenge in that inside of me. You have to let that go and rely on your faith. Because it says vengeance is mine, save the Lord.

So, I mean, you can go scriptural, but realistically, for your mental health, you really need to learn how to let that go so you don't carry it around so it won't eat you up like cancer. And that's the reason I was able to forgive so fast because I know what I needed to do for me as a Christian. It doesn't make me any more or better or less of a Christian because at this point, even my son cannot forgive him for what he did. And I told him that's fine. You don't have to. But this is a personal choice for me and a personal choice with my faith that this is the path that I choose to go. Now, I don't forgive this person for his actions. I mean, I have to forgive him and hope to God that he can repent and find Jesus Christ as a savior.

Doesn't take the fact away that he murdered my son. Doesn't take the fact away. I'm still human and have emotions. Don't think I'm not angry. Don't think I'm not sad. Don't think I don't think I don't call. cry. I mean, all these things are true. But to make it the final destination of where I know I'm going to end up right beside Austin at some point. And then he can tell me why the understanding,

because I don't have understanding at this moment. I just have to trust God's plan. Because I don't understand why he needed my son at 17. But I'm also very aware there's evil in this world. And it does exist. And like I've always said, light always overcomes darkness. So no matter what, I've learned to try to tell myself, this is only temporary. Whatever's happening to me is only temporary. You will get through it because a saying I came with a long time ago is if God brought you to it, he can bring you through it. So I have no. idea what God has planned for me. I sure didn't see this coming at all. But it does reshape you. It does break you down. And it does you become someone different because you're never going to be

the person you were before. That person is gone. And you have to learn how to live in, I don't say a new normal because I hate that phrase. because there's nothing normal about it. But you have to learn how. What I chose to do is one of the things I've learned is instead of learning to learn how to live without him, I'm going to live for him. So I'm going to keep his name out there. I'm going to do, you know, I'll probably form a 501 3C3 and get some nonprofit and organization, you know,

all in for also Metcalf Foundation or something because I want to keep it going. I want to help people out there. I want to be able to keep the message alive because I think nowadays in today's society,

the youth has no impulse control, de-escalation skills, conflict resolution skills. I think some of these things need to be taught early on. Even in school, I think it could be a curriculum. I would love to go around. and speak to high school and colleges and wherever would want to hear me speak upon this,

I would love to be approached so I could spread the word and do something like that. I mean, because right now at this point, I really don't have a clue what I'm going to do next with my life. And I just trust God that he's going to point me in the direction. You know, I mean, yes, I'm a, yes, I'm a big fan of Turning Point. Yes, I was a big fan of Charlie Kirk. I mean, so, I mean, has nothing, a lot of people will say, well, you know, well, he was racist. He was, no, he wasn't. No, he wasn't.

If you'd listen to him, just like, you know, I was taking out of context, people can take snippets and then turn it into their narrative. And that's, and that's totally unfair. And to misrepresent someone like that, I mean, really, what kind of person are you and what are you trying to achieve? are you just out there stirring the pot trying to get clicks, trying to make a living off social media or TikTok? I mean, are you do, or are you actually have value

that you're putting out there? Are you, or is it really just crap? Jeff, that's what I hear you saying is you know, you're, you want to take this tragedy and turn it into purpose. And you talked about talking on, speaking on campuses or at schools or whatever. You know,

we'd love to help you do that because I do think you have a really important message to spread and and you know to live with that purpose live for austin i find so much of what you were just saying you know i you know blake and i lost somebody too but not on the level of you or erika or rob and katherine but you know if i felt like i related to it a lot as well because you do kind of realize that the life you you had before all this happened um it will never be the same and you have to live in our current moment with our current reality. I think that's something I've been reticent to accept. So even hearing you say that was powerful for me to hear. If you could go back in time and buy oil before the world relied on it, would you? Of course you

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just as just as this interview today i mean i've always been a huge turning point USA fan i was huge charlie kirk fan and just to be able to be on the show and talk and and understand you know now i'm not going to say that my loss is the same as erika's loss because it's not hers was a spouse mine was a child but that doesn't take away from her loss are my loss at all. Because loss affects all of us differently, just like grief affects all of us differently. And there's no timeline,

there's no instruction, but there's no getting over it. I mean, that's, that doesn't happen. And the worst thing someone can say to you, and I know they're always trying to be nice, is, you know, how you doing? Are you okay?

Okay. To me, that's the dumbest question in the world. Don't ever ask me that. I'm like, seriously. just I understand you don't know what to say just put your hand on my shoulder and pray I mean you don't have to be sometimes it's awkward for people

but a bunch of my friends even like we don't know what to say to you and I said you don't have to say anything just come sit down beside me that's all you have to say a word just your presence tells me you're here for me and that's what I need to know there's no words that are going to make me feel better

There's no words that are going to make Erica feel better. That healing and that feeling better takes, happens within us, the person who suffered the tragedy. Yes, we, we, you know, I appreciate the condolences and the love and the support throughout the nation, the world, the community, my friends, my family. But you still have to go through the process. You still have to grieve. And there's five phases. and they can raise their head at any time. And I can be fine for a week

and then a tsunami of emotion will hit me just instantly. It could be a trigger of a favorite song or a favorite place or favorite food or just any little memory that can be triggered will force you right back into that flow of emotions. Well, basically, you lose it. You start crying and hopefully you're in somewhere, a safe space hopefully, but

truth of the matter is, you know, you don't control this. And it's, you try to learn how to deal with it because you never know when it actually is going to hit. So you just try to, you know, catch your triggers, pray and, you know,

allow yourself to grieve. Don't try to hold stuff in. Let it out. And if you don't, I'll tell you, it's just, if you keep inside. It's going to eat you up like cancer and you're going to be miserable and you're going to be bitter and you're going to carry grudges and it's going to affect the way you raise your children, the way you talk to your spouse, your boss, everything in life. You'll become a bitter, sour person and that's not who I want to become. And yeah, I'm hurt. Yeah, I'll never be the same.

but I think this also gives me the opportunity to become better to be better than what I ever have been. Now I've got the opportunity to even step up further. Now I've got the opportunity maybe to help other people. Maybe I can go around and speak to people. They can actually make a difference. And I'm not saying I'm Charlie Kirk, but along those lines, he went around and spoke and made a difference.

You know, he was an amazing individual. I will never compare myself to him. I can only admire from afar and try to achieve, you know, half the person he ever was. The man was just a walking chat GPT full of knowledge and had words that you didn't, you couldn't go up against. He made too much sense, and that's what the problem is for the left. He made common sense. That's the best I've ever heard it, actually. Charlie made too much sense.

He just made too much sense for them. You know, and I love what you're talking about, though, and Blake, I want to get you in here, but I just feel like you're talking about this process of becoming, right? You think about a story, you know, whether it's a movie or a book or whatever, where, you know, the character has to become. They're put through this trial and they become something different. And, you know, the character, like, you think about Jonah and the whale. Jonah didn't want to go, you know, to Nineveh.

He didn't want to, he ran from God and he became, but God forced him to sort of step into that calling. Eventually he said yes to it. And I think out of the boat. Yeah. I mean, there's a ton of biblical things. Some people, I mean, there's tons, David and the Lion, Peter in the boat, you know, Lazarus, back from the dead, you know,

Jesus wept. I mean, there's so much things that's in, that in the Bible, that, yes, I choose to incorporate it in my life, Charlie chose to incorporate into his life. Now, I'm not saying other religions are bad or anything. It's just a personal belief. And it's who I want to be. And it's who I want to reach.

And anyone who has the same belief as me that I can reach out to, maybe I can help them or help someone in a situation where I can somehow be helpful, inspirational, guiding, you know, I don't want to say knowledge, but maybe that, you know, give shared knowledge. just so they maybe if I can reach just one person it's a success but obviously Charlie reached millions of people if I could do just a quarter of what he ever did I would be very happy but you know I feel

parallels along with him is just wanting to be out there spread the word and have a meaningful conversation without insults and hate and threats of violence and things like that Jeff, all of this has been tremendous, incredible. I want to speak to one specific parallel that exists between you and Erica, which besides that it's, you've lost a loved one, besides that it's a very high profile case, but that it's

one that, unfortunately, we see hateful, gleeful things posted online. We talked about what a lot of supporters of your son's kids. pillar we're saying online posting videos TikTok and all of that and we see similar things with that here we had our young women's leadership event and there was a guy with a big paper machet head of Charlie reenacting his death we see people post about how happy they are that Charlie's dead there was a joke about it against Erica yes and on the flip side of this also you don't have this as much but the conspiracy theories about it where they say actually Erica's not a grieving widow. She's a fake widow. She conspired. She's helping cover up the real killers.

But you're the really the closest person we have to someone who's dealt with something of this scale. Do you have a message for Erica, how you would advise overcoming the feelings this is going to cause in her, ignoring it, getting past it, just any thoughts in that vein? Yeah. So for your mental health, you need to stay. You need to stay. You need to stay off social media. You just need to stay away from all avenues that want to spew this vile hatred, misinformation, total lies. Same exact. I still, to this day, I still get death threats. And my family still gets death threats. Now, this is a very small percentage of a certain subculture demographic that is causing these issues.

So realistically, if you're looking at the big picture of it, they're really a small portion of people. But they're soulless. They have no moral compass. They don't contribute to society in an effective way. All they want to do is obviously they don't have enough life of their own, but they want to get involved in yours and just spew hate based on maybe the color of your skin and that's it. And there was a man who said don't judge or judge a man by his character

not by the color of his skin. Pretty famous guy. And I think that's a great statement because that's the same way I look at people. I don't judge you by color. I judge you by character. And, you know, and for those who maybe are younger than me or didn't know who said this, Martin Luther King is the man who made that quote famous. And so, like again, this isn't a race thing. This is a human being thing. Erica's husband was murdered. My son was murdered. Those things are not going to change. To accept, to one, to just accept the fact is hard enough. Because it does seem surreal the first few days it's going on. Like you're in a dream and it's not really happening, but it really is. And you have to figure out how you're going to navigate this. One, get some professional help.

Find a counselor. Find a grief group. Something. Just don't isolate. That is the worst thing you can do. Get you a support network. Learn what, you know, understand what you're going to go through. It's not going to help the pain, but it's going to help with the understanding. And that's going to help you navigate it. It's not going to be easy. It's the hardest thing ever. It's the most painful thing ever.

But you have to get through it because I tell people, you never know how strong you are until you have to be. And then you can actually surprise yourself. Examples, 10 years ago, I was diagnosed with stage four cancer. And they told me, Jeff, if it gets below your neck, we can't save you.

You're dead. I just got faced with immortality. And I have two seven-year-old boys hugging my legs yelling, yelling, daddy, daddy, please don't die. So I had to make my, it's a mindset. And I had to make a mindset, okay, I am not going to die. And it's the same thing with this situation right now. I am not going to let this beat me. I am going to become something better out of this tragedy.

I'm going to create something for other people, hopefully, to be better out of this tragedy. And it will carry my son's name on, which is the number one thing that I really want to do is carry his name on. We already have a scholarship set up at the high school to give an athlete. a scholarship, the Austin Matcalf Scholarship Board every year. I'd like to increase that. I'd like to grow that. There's other charities I'd like to be involved in also. And I would love to speak and go around and just be able to do that with people

and just spread my story and hopefully give people some sort of inspiration or some sort of nugget they can carry on and just improve their life with. because we're all here for a short period of time. Tomorrow's never promised, as I'm very aware of that now. So live every day with purpose. Hi, folks, Andrew Colvette here. I'd like to tell you about my friends over at Y Reefi. You've probably been hearing me talk about Y Reefi for some time now.

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Just go to whyrefi.com and tell them your friend Andrews sent you. And now I feel like I have a purpose. I had a purpose before, and it was being a father. I'm still a fatherer. I have one in heaven. I have one still here fixing to go to college. So I still have responsibilities to my other son, who's lived through the most tragic event trauma. I can't even imagine.

I can't. I don't have a twin brother, and I sure can't imagine seeing him being murdered and dying in my arms. I... It's okay, Jeff. You know, his... Hunter's been put through a lot. I mean, we all have.

But, you know, he's my son. And as a parent, you know, you always want to protect your kids. And, you know, the stuff online, and let me say this up front. This goes for both sides, not just my side. I want to make this perfectly clear. The stuff that's going on online, the memes, the pictures, the vile comments, look, they come from the far right to with pictures of Carmelo saying very vile things

that are going to happen to him in prison. I don't condone that. That is not who you need to be. Stop it. Please. These are two kids. One's dead. And the other one's in prison. So there's no good outcome. There's nothing good about it. And making memes and derogatory remarks on dead children or are in prison children. I'm sorry. You need to check yourself. You need to really look in the mirror and go, wow, who am I? What kind of person am I? And if you have children,

What are you teaching? What are you teaching your children with this behavior? That's what I am so concerned about is not just me, because I'm not, I'm only here for another 25 years. I'm worried about what's my kids' futures like, what my kids' kids' futures are like. What's, where are we going to be? Are we going to be divided?

Are we going to have a race war? Are we going to have a civil war again? We've already had one in this country. I'm worried about the moral decay. of society and where we're taking it and what we're learning to become acceptable is not acceptable. I'm old school as my kid tell me. Oh, you're old school, dad.

Yeah, I am. I am old school. I respected my parents. I did not have a sense of entitlement. I had to work for everything that was given to me. I had rules, responsibilities, chores, my parents instilled discipline in me.

You know, if we were inside, we were grounded. We hated being inside. We wanted to be outside. Today's world, I mean, my generation was the last generation

to grow up without cell phones, internet, and social media. Greatest time in the world to grow up. Because now, everything's recorded, everything's taped,

everything. I mean, you have no privacy. see, you cannot do the same things you, I did when I was a kid. But today's youth is put under such more scrutiny, more mental health issues. I mean, I honestly believe, you know, when we took God out of school, it affected our society. When we started giving people voices and opinions and platforms to say whatever they think. and if they say it loud enough, they think it's right.

And they, in their mind, it's a perceived reality. And it's not, and it's not the truth, but it is their reality. That's what they live in. And you can see how today has, society has been formed. Just go back 50 years and see how far we've come. Just go back 100 years and see how far we've come. It's amazing. I mean, America is the greatest country in the world, no doubt about it.

but we create our own problems half the time from within from within the outside factors are not we need to deal with what's within our borders we need to deal with the homeless we need to deal with the veterans we need to deal with mental health these are issues but everyone wants to start oh it's a gun you know oh so guns are bad no guns are good people are bad guns don't kill people people kill people. That's what I've helped you. Yes, I'm a Second Amendment person. Yes, I believe in the right. I believe in everything. Do I believe in murder? No. Right. It's a crime. It's a law. We have to keep our civilized, normal society actions in order. You break the law. There are consequences. I've told my sons this all the time growing up. You are free in life to make any

decisions you want, but you are not free from the consequences. That's right. So remember that. and this was a perfect example. Unfortunately, it took it to the extreme in my case. But there are consequences for shoving a knife in someone's chest. And in Charlie's case, yeah. Oh, Charlie's case is, that's a slam dunk. I mean, the man was assassinated as I watched on TV. I mean, there's just something wrong with people.

Yeah. Jeff, I really appreciate you giving us so much of your time. today and I know God's got big plans for what you're going to do next and the purpose you're going to live with and honestly I'm just I'm really encouraged listening to you because I believe what you said Erica needs to hear and Rob and Catherine need to hear and there's just very few people that can relate to what they're going through right now and you're one of them and it's a terrible club for you to be in and for us to sort of be in and membership dues yeah but we so appreciate you and i thank you for for making this a priority today

um i'm gonna clip this and send it right to erika so she can watch it tonight um and we just uh we just really appreciate you god bless you i really mean that i bless her family and uh you know you obviously know what i told you off offline you can reach out so thanks you too jeb just god bless them and and I'll pray for them. God bless you. Thank you, sir. Jeff Metcalfe, Austin Metcalf's father. So generous with his time.

And yeah, that was powerful just to sit back and listen to. I mean, there's just something about somebody that's been through that process personally and had to face so much tragedy and heartache. And I hate to admit, I mean, I hate to admit it. I just have to confront the fact that I relate to so much of that. And I know you do too, Blake. And we're going to take a quick, break here. I think we're going to the court's going to come back in session at some point.

So we're just kind of waiting for that. Maybe if we want to take the RAV feed guys for the stream. And he'll be back. We'll be back. I guess one their time. And I think they go until five, you said. Five Utah time. Yeah. So that would be four Pacific or seven Eastern. Seven Eastern. Yeah. And then we've got a special. We're going to do a recap episode at the end of the day. and we'll see how far they get because we were speaking with J-Town earlier and he said in theory they could get through everything today

but the defense is They're going to drag out, yeah It'll drag out. All right. We'll be back soon, guys. Talk then. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust,

go to charliekirk.com.