The Charlie Kirk Show - The Charlie Kirk Show Responds to Candace Owens

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

For the past three months, this show received a flood of questions about Candace Owens and her claims accusing Charlie's closest friends of complicity in his death. For three months, we preferred to remain silent, but in this episode we respond. Frank Turek and Bill Glahn join to discuss Charlie's upcoming book on the Sabbath and Minnesota becoming the poster child of liberal rule wrecking once-pleasant states. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!    Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You've got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as much.

many kids as possible. Go start a turning point USA College Chapter. Go start a turning point you would say high school chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life and I encourage you to do the same. Here I am.

Lord, use me. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold. leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers. Welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. We're going to be talking to Frank Turrick about the Sabbath and Charlie's upcoming book in just a moment.

But first, we wanted to use this segment at the top of this hour to say something important, something very important. For the past two and a half months, there is a topic that has flooded our freedom inbox. It has been nonstop on social media, but which we have almost totally avoided on this show. You probably already know what I'm talking about, which shows just how ubiquitous it has been. Ever since Charlie's murder, Candice Owens has leveled a flood of allegations against people at Turning Point USA, people at Turning Point Action, and people who work for this show. She's made them against some of Charlie's closest friends and against some of his most dedicated employees. She has suggested that Michael McCoy, Charlie's Chief of Staff, knew Charlie would be murdered, was happy that he died, and stayed silent because he was told he would be the next Charlie. She has suggested, Michael is not his real name, it is, I have seen his birth certificate myself.

She has called it suspicious that Mikey's wife, who works at Turning Point, helped plan the campus tour event where Charlie was murdered, which she didn't, by the way, she doesn't work on campus events. Candice has suggested the Utah Valley University event was unusual and its details suggested a quote inside job. She has claimed that foreign aircraft have followed Erica Kirk around the country and that Turning Point has lied about this happening. She has accused us of lying about Charlie wanting Erica to take over for him if he died. She has suggested Charlie's security team intentionally denied him first aid after the shooting to ensure that he died. She has raised suspicions about the head of our technical team because he took an SD card out of a camera. She has spread absurd claims that Tyler Boyer, who we just had on the show, sexually abuses male interns. She has suggested that TPUSA faith-affiliated pastors, like theologian, Frank Turrick, who will have on in a moment,

and Pastor Rob McCoy, are part of a military, quote, infiltration of turning point, either because they are veterans or because they have family members who are. Even if not everyone has been named specifically, though, Candace has effectively tarred everyone here with complicity in Charlie's death by repeatedly saying he was, quote, betrayed by, quote, everyone. She has said Charlie's murder, quote, had to be approved by Charlie's friends, and then suggested those friends might have her murdered too for, quote, knowing the truth. She has made claims of financial impropriety and fraud at Turning Point adding up into the millions of dollars, which, again, is not true.

Charlie made sure the organization was audited by a third party every year. He personally reviewed and he signed off on every expense report, and literally every single bill paid by the organization down to a single United States dollar. We have never missed a 9-90 deadline. Candice has made other stranger allegations involving French paratroopers in maroon shirts, Egyptian Air Force planes flying out of Provo, Utah, and potential underground assassins traveling through unseen tunnels. At one point, in early November, she started wildly throwing suspicion on members of Utah Valley's soccer team for wearing hoodies. I could go on. There is always something new coming up, and none of it ever pans out, because from the start, There has been nothing there.

The attacks and allegations from Candace are either lies or they are innuendos thrown around with a total, reckless disregard for the truth so that Candace can manipulate and string along an audience of people who don't realize they are being played. Instead of being able to grieve properly after one of the most heinous murders in American history, a murder many of us had to witness, my friends have had to endure harassment from people who have done,

gotten whipped up by what Candice is saying. In fact, I would say we have suffered more harassment from these people than we have from Antifa supporters who overtly celebrate Charlie's murder. And just like a lot of those Antifa members, many of these people take this delight in how gross and unpleasant they can be. What our friends have had to endure is not funny and it's not insignificant. It is evil. I have seen it. For months, we have received, Hundreds, thousands, I suspect, emails and calls asking us to respond. People have wanted us to invite Candace on the show. But for a long time, our approach was to say nothing.

We did that for several reasons. First, we thought that her prevarications were so absurd that nobody would believe them. We shouldn't have to answer questions about secret tunnels or Egyptian Air Force planes. That sort of thing is just, it's beneath contempt to respond to. The second reason we've said so little, though, is because there's a good rule of thumb, which Charlie followed. Do not feed the trolls. Focus on the mission. Reviving America, uplifting young people, making heaven crowded. Don't give air to people who want to tear you down, and so discord. Lastly, we didn't respond because Charlie always viewed Candace as a friend, and we were holding out hope that she would return that friendship and stop what she was doing.

But a week from now, it's going to be three months since Charlie's murder. Candice has not changed her behavior. She has continued to spread falsehoods about Charlie's friends, and she continues to concoct new ones about new people. She's using these falsehoods to enrich herself while dividing the conservative movement at an absolutely critical time for this country. And far too often, we here have heard from ordinary people, people who loved Charlie and who Charlie loved so much in return.

These people have expressed the worry that we are staying silent out of cowardice or as some sort of tacit admission that some of the attacks are true. Neither is the case. Our silence has never been and it will never be equal to complacency or approval. Still, we decided Charlie would not allow this to go on. Charlie was not a coward. Charlie was a fighter. Charlie would not allow someone to spread lies

about the people closest to him with impunity and he would feel ashamed if other people were stepping up to defend his friends while he never did so himself. Candace has mentioned several times that the ball is in our court. So here's what is going to happen. In the near future, there will be a live stream here in Phoenix where we address in a clear and comprehensive way the claims and accusations, the false accusations,

that have been made against Charlie's family, friends, and the people here at Turning Point. We plan to walk through everything carefully and thoroughly. If Candace is available, we would sincerely welcome her participation in that live stream at our studio here in Phoenix. At this point, we believe the ball is back in her court. Our motivation for doing this is not out of any obligation to Candace.

It is about honoring Charlie. Charlie. We feel a deep responsibility to protect his legacy, his work, and the truth. I feel that. I owe Charlie everything in my life. I feel it immensely. And that is why we feel compelled to speak clearly and openly now. We'll have more on this in the near future. All right. Frank Turek, are you there? Well said, Blake. Yes, I'm here. And I just want to say that The night before, Charlie was murdered, and I'm not just saying this, but I went into his office. This was after we had a meeting. You were in the meeting, Blake, me, you, Charlie, and some other folks.

And he was going to dinner. And he said, hey, you're going to dinner with Blake and Danny. He said, Blake is my secret weapon. He's the smartest man I know. And he loved you. and for anybody to suggest, whether it's Candace Owens or any other person within TPUSA was somehow complicit in his murder, is to say that Charlie Kirk was such a bad judge of character that he put a bunch of traitors around him.

If there's anything I knew about Charlie Kirk is he knew how to spot talent and integrity and people that wanted to make a difference for the Lord and the country. Charlie was brilliant at that. It takes a lot more faith to believe that Charlie didn't know who his friends were and picked all the wrong people to surround him, to build an organization that came from nothing to the most powerful conservative organization in the country. I mean, in 13 years, he built it, and it was big before 13 years.

You know, he really got it moving about seven or eight years later. It strains credulity to suggest that people within that organization, people that he handpicked himself, somehow murdered him. If you're going to suggest that, you better have a lot of evidence, and I have seen none of it. it's it's unconscionable that anyone would say this without evidence you can slander you can say what if you can have all sorts of innuendos and insinuations that's not evidence you can have dreams you can have hunches you can have vibes that is not evidence look i know there are a lot of

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Dear, dear friends, so I'll give the last word to Charlie. Call 972 Patriot today, or go to PatriotMobil.com slash Charlie, use promo code Charlie for a free month of service. That's Patriotmobile.com slash Charlie. Or call 972 Patriot and make the switch today. Thank you so much. that it means a great deal charlie charlie meant so much to all of us and that's made so much of what we hear so painful so raw it remains raw and painful it's uh andrews talked about on this show you know he thinks about charlie every day when he gets up and he thinks about him every night when he goes to bed and he just he looms large in all of our heads and all of our hearts and I suspect he will for the rest of our lives and I wanted to take a chance to talk about this so you know Charlie did get the chance to finish stop in the name of God

just before the tragedy we're extremely happy that he did that and it's out next uh I believe on the 9th next Tuesday every book comes out on Tuesday for some reason and I know you're one of the pastors he was closest to yeah there you do you got it your advanced copy and I just thought I'd ask you throughout to you if you could talk about what the Sabbath means and if you had an if you had any funny interactions with Charlie about his own relationship with the Sabbath? I'm sure he had that conversation with you. Well, yeah, Charlie was wanting to keep the Sabbath, not necessarily because he thought it was an obligation, but because he thought it was a fabulous idea that helped him recharge every week and refocus back on God and his family. He would take, as you know, Blake,

he would take his cell phone, turn it off, put it in a drawer, and for 24 to 30 hours over long the Sabbath was, you could not reach him unless there was some sort of emergency. There was a special line that people could call, but he wanted to be out of touch so he could be in touch with the Lord and in touch with his family. And that's what he did. And in this book, I was shocked, because he and I talked about this a lot, and I knew you probably did too, Blake. I was shocked at how good the book was because he's not a trained theologian. But man, did he do his research, Blake? And he's got chapters in here on arguments why the Sabbath is still in place and another chapter on why it's not. And he, of course, lets the reader decide. But he was so serious about Christianity, so

serious about the Bible, that he wanted to put this down because it was such a blessing to him. And if we're going to be serious about being Christians, then we ought to follow the Bible, too. and unfortunately, I don't see people following the Bible and following the admonition to ensure that you don't accuse people without evidence in this whole debate we're having over who really killed Charlie. It's a shame. If people took the Bible as seriously as Charlie did, we wouldn't have what's going on with all this speculation now. Amen, amen. I think there's, people have been posting the different warnings. I think it was the book of Proverbs that we had going yesterday about, I don't have it right in front of me, but, you know, lies.

You have to reject the way of lies. Lies are. Yeah, Proverbs 16 says, God hates one who sows discord among the brothers. And it also talks about a lying tongue and false witness. And there's a lot of discord out there. And we don't need discord. We need people to ask good questions, but not imply people are guilty when you don't have evidence. You know, there's such a thing as a complex question, as you well know, Blake, because you're well-schooled in logic.

The complex question would be like me asking a married man, when did you stop beating your wife? Yeah, there's this baked-in assumption to it. That's right. It's a baked-in assumption. And that's what I see in so much of what's going on with online conspiracy theories. There's a baked-in assumption. And with regard to people convicting innocent people in the core. of public opinion without evidence, it's very similar to what happened to Jesus. Because

Caiaphas, the high priest who sentenced Jesus to die, of course, did so much wrong. He had a trial at night. He was the judge, the jury, the executioner himself. He had to get pilot to execute him. But he already had the verdict in his mind. He was not trying to discover the truth. He already had the verdict in his mind. And so he brought false witness after false witness to accuse Jesus of something he did not do, and then ultimately, a Jesus under oath did admit he was the Messiah, did admit he was essentially God, and that's where, of course, Caiaphas tore his robes and said, blasphemy, you must die. But to that point, he had done everything against the proper use of authority. You don't judge people. You're not the judge jury and executioner. You don't find a verdict

and then try and get people to falsely accuse the victim or the person on trial. But that's what Caiaphas did. And I see too many people doing that now. They already have a verdict in their mind. They can't substantiate it with hard evidence. They have a lot of innuendo. They have a lot of coincidences, but they don't have hard evidence. And they're looking for a way to validate what they want to be true.

This is not the way our judicial system works, thankfully. It's not the way the Bible puts it forth. It's not the way, which by the way, our judicial system and our laws are taken largely from the Bible, that you're supposed to have two or three witnesses, in other words, supposed to have corroborating evidence, supposed to have impartial judges, you're supposed to have an independent judiciary. You're supposed to be able to confront the witnesses, the Bible talks about this. And that's incorporated in our Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution. How can you confront witnesses in the court of public opinion?

You can't, not in a systematic way. All this has to go to trial. And I understand, Blake, and I know we're all suspicious of government sometimes, but we can't be cynics. We can't say that every single thing the government does is corrupt or wrong. We can't do that. We won't have a society if we do that. Yeah.

You know, a lot of this, you know, the events of the past few months, It's expanded my appreciation of Charlie, and again, how strong he was. And one of those things is I've really realized since this happened what Charlie had to put up with in private that he never complained about. He never complained about to me, certainly, and I was one of his closest associates. And, you know, he endured a lot of pressure. He endured in private things that were so hurtful. And he just had this strength that he wouldn't let it perturb him. And that's why I wanted to talk about this.

about this book because I do think the Sabbath Shabbat he would say that helped so much it was he for six weeks he would labor for six weeks he would endure the slings and arrows of his political enemies his political allies quite often and then but he had this day

he was he was with Erica he was with his children the phone was off he was unplugged that was he really makes the point in this book the Sabbath is not this duty the Sabbath is a gift it is God's gift to you that you shall not you shall not labor all seven days like a slave. You shall have this freedom from God given to you. And he

really wanted to share that. It wasn't just look at how great I am that I can do this. I'm looking here. Chapter 12, Sabbath made simple, how you can, how you can incorporate it into your life by, you know, making your Sabbath start ritual, turning off your phone 24 hours, planning screen free meals with friends and family. And it goes on like this. And he really sketches out how you can imitate him. And we were saying in the last hour that Charlie was so great for Gen Z because he offered this model of strength and self-improvement. Don't black pill. Don't be downbeat. You can improve yourself and make your life better. 30 seconds, Frank. Now, I was also going to say it's not just about the Sabbath, too. The first two chapters deal with the fact that there's evidence that Christianity is true. It's more an apologetic, which is a word we use to say we're giving evidence for what we believe. It's an apologetic for Christianity. So it's not just about the Sabbath. It's It's a very well-written book, very well-researched book.

It comes out December 9th. It's called Stop in the Name of God, why honoring the Sabbath will transform your life. Get it. Amen, Frank. It's, I think people will be able to get a lot from it. I think people are really going to appreciate it, and I'm so happy he was able to finish it

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So I want to introduce you a bit. So we've talked a ton recently about all these stories coming out of Minnesota. It's got to be the top political content producer state per capita in the union recently. We've got stories about widespread fraud in the Somali community. We have some outrageous criminal justice decisions that will outline here. It's the state that gave us Ilhan Omar. We love to talk about her. And I wanted to shout you guys out because Bill, you are one of the three authors at Powerline blog.

that is a blog so old I was reading it when I was in high school and I'm an old fuddy-duddy here and Powerline blog is one of the great American blogs. They're guys in Minnesota they're doing what any one of you out there could do because I think a lot of your two fellow bloggers I think work as

lawyers. They're not just writers by trade and you guys have a lot of accomplishments. You were some of the first guys to be talking about these fraud stories that are happening and most memorably I've got to shout you out. You were the original ones who wrote about Ilhan Omar marrying her brother, correct? Correct, correct. She did marry her brother. She did. She denied it as recently, I think,

an hour ago. An hour ago? Really? As recently as that? You are on top of that. She didn't marry her brother, but she did. She did. This should be investigated. I'd really love to see. I want the full story on that. Somehow, it's just treated like a total, like a total black box. We just will never know the truth somehow. Absolute lunacy. But the more recent, thing that's been going on, of course, is the Somali fraud story. It went viral because of a report from Chris Rufo and Ryan Thorpe at City Journal, but you guys have justifiably pointed out it has been known in the state of Minnesota for a while, and it's more that the nation is getting, it's coming to their attention, and it's really wider than even just the list of

stories in that. I think we have a chart here that I want to bring up. It's made by you. It's just the scale of different fraud schemes that have been unfolding in Minnesota. Can you lay that out for us? Yeah, so I created something I called the scandal tracker for exactly the reasons that you were pointing out before. And the phrase that I use is Minnesota, this is a Churchillian phrase, Minnesota produces more news that can be consumed locally. So we've had a couple of these huge industrial scale welfare frauds that have gone on to the state. And I think it was a reader of mine asks, well, what other scandal? How deep does this go? And so I started putting together this tracker where I have tracked 28 separate scandals involving money, taxpayer money, state or federal

taxpayer money that have been stolen through fraud. And I need to update it because there was a new story that came out in the last day or so, yet another fraud unrelated to the Somali frauds that we've been talking about. And some of those numbers are kind of low as federal investigators or state investigators dig deeper, the dollar amount keeps growing. We have the chart up next to you right now, actually. And, yeah, it's 300 million feeding our future. We have 100 million for the Child Care Assistance Program. But I know now we're estimating, because the total here is 660 million,

but I know they're throwing around the B word, a billion dollars for a lot of us now. So this is a dated chart. I need to update it. But our local prosecutor, the head, prosecutor for white collar crime at the federal U.S. Attorney's Office, he has on record as saying his office is prosecuting over one billion with a B dollars worth of fraud. And he's only got half a dozen prosecutors in his office. He is openly admitted, I can't prosecute all the cases that come to be. So when he puts a dollar amount together, he thinks the total is over two billion. I mean, again, plural, more than two, billion dollars worth of fraud. And you've seen other numbers thrown around six billion, eight billion. But Joe Thompson, he's got access to all the bank records and all the FBI reports. And he's personally prosecuting a billion dollars worth now. And he thinks he could

productively prosecute another full billion dollars. So you're a Minnesota resident. You focus on Minnesota. It does seem to produce more content than it consume locally as far as news goes, what do you think is the secret sauce of Minnesota, where it's like you have this kind of perfect combination of old-fashioned, maybe call it naive liberalism, call it Tim Waltzism, and then also this new immigration-driven dimension of left-wing problems in American life? That's the lethal combination. Minnesota was founded by a diverse group of immigrants, a lot of them from Scandinavia, but also German, Irish, other groups. But you had in Minnesota until maybe 30, 40 years ago, a fairly homogeneous

population of Northern Europeans. And again, it's not, I don't think it's racist to point out that in Scandinavia, you can run a Scandinavian-style socialist welfare state in a fairly homogeneous nation and be successful with it. And Minnesota tried that and succeeded at some level with that approach, the Scandinavian style, you can do that in a high-trust society. But as we've brought in people who don't come from that background, who don't come from high-functioning or high-trust societies, who don't have the experience with the cradle-de-grave welfare societies, some individuals in those communities, certainly not most, certainly not all, but some individuals, we're talking a few hundred to maybe a couple of thousand people have found the loopholes in the safety net and have

exploited it to make themselves extremely wealthy. And more than a few have gone to prison and dozens and dozens have been convicted. And I think it's that lethal combination of the Scandinavian style cradle to grave welfare state designed for a homogeneous high trust society being exploited by a society that has evolved and perhaps for the better into a multi-collarive multicultural, multi-ethnic society. But those just two fundamental approaches to running a society don't match. So this has gotten a ton of attention from the Trump administration. They've talked about sending all these IRS agents to review everything,

although it seems like the local prosecutor has a lot of this well in hand, though we'd be grateful to find more. He has a lot of them well in hand, but I'm sure he would appreciate the additional assistance. I believe it. I believe it. Do you have anything you think so? What would you recommend, now that it's getting more federal attention, where do you think focus could be most rewarding in terms of making additional fines that could be good for the country to expose? Yeah, so it's a target-rich environment. And it's gotten to the point where somebody responded to me on Twitter that maybe it's just time to put the state into receivership.

The federal prosecutor instead of prosecuting criminals one of the time, the fraud is being conducted at an industrial scale. But the prosecutions by necessity under our Constitution happen at a retail scale, one defendant at a time, who has the full suite of civil rights and rights in court and they exercise them, which is their right. But to prosecute a trial, the first batch of feeding our future, the original scandal, those indictments, the first batch came in September of 2022. We didn't have our first trial until 2024, and we have trials scheduled into 2026, and that's just for the defendants that have been indicted to date. And again, it seems like one or two a week. Additional indictments come down, but it's got to be a holistic approach. You know, the fraudsters figured out how the fraud one program in one state agency and applied that same technique to another program and a different state agency. the agencies weren't talking to each other.

I really think we need to have a top-down review of the social welfare programs, maybe consolidate fewer programs, put more investigators on it, put more restrictions on it. A little bit of due diligence would have gone a long way in these frauds. Somebody just visited site locations or done some basic background checks. Hundreds of millions of dollars could have been prevented from going out the door, but they didn't. It's a system, Minnesota has the system which I characterize as the honor system. So all the state government's on the honor system.

If you apply for a benefit or you send the state an invoice, their first instinct is just trust that you're doing it under penalty of perjury, sign the document. It's unbelievable to me. Yeah, the honor system, it doesn't work. It's clearly getting looted and you really have to make the case. They're just plundering the entire rest of the state. We still have, we have a fellow producer here, Danny, who's with us.

Danny, you wanted to ask a question? Yeah, Bill, thanks for coming on. I wonder, do you think other states are just as bad? Like, I assume Michigan's probably pretty bad with all this welfare fraud and stuff. Do you think that Minnesota's the outlier, or do you think all of them? It's a short answer. It's everywhere. In the early days of my reporting on that Feeding Our Future scandal, I was contacted by people in other states as far away as Alabama,

where they had almost identical scams being perpetrated, but at just a much smaller scale. It's interesting that we had the past U.S. attorney, the outgoing U.S. attorney, who was a Biden appointee, he went on local TV, and he said Minnesota has a fraud problem. That fraud is occurring everywhere in America. This was referring to the COVID-era frauds. But the scale in Minnesota is unique. So, yes, I think the fraud is happening anywhere. and anywhere, but I don't know if any state on a per capita basis has seen the level

of fraud that Minnesota has. It really, the thing that stood out to me so much in the New York Times article, which was remarkably frank and honest, finally, about what's going on, it was sort of, it was two things. It was the way it was caught immediately or caught pretty quickly, and they just did nothing because they were, they directly feared being called. It was literally caught on day zero. The original fraudsters in that food program were their application.

were denied by the State Department of Education. They applied. Department of Education said no, because they realized from just review of their applications that they weren't bona fide operators, but there were lawsuits and accusations or racism, and they never had the courage of their convictions. And they just let it slip through figuring it was somebody else's problem. Yeah. And the other thing, which is they were warned about this, and then they said,

it's their important political block, and they don't want to offend them that. listen there's no way around it when it comes to health care people are really frustrated with how much it costs and how to pay for it the usual ways we've been doing this have only gotten more expensive more complicated and honestly just aggravating and that's why metashare is such a welcome relief it's called health care sharing it's different and it really works more than a million americans are now doing this and metashare has been a great option for more than 30 years so really you could save thousands of dollars a year on your health care and be happy. Imagine that. For many families joining Metashare means saving about 500 bucks a month, which is a game changer for a lot of people. If you've heard about it and you want to know more, there are two easy options. Go to Metashare.com, M-E-D-I-Share.com slash Kirk. That's Metashare.com or just grab your phone and send a text. You'll get the info, which could really help you and your family out, save money, get great health care, text the word, Kirk, K-I-R-K-0-0-0-0-0. 246. That's Kirk to 70246 to get the fax. That's Kirk to 70246.

Danny, we were talking in the break about, in addition to all the fraud in Minnesota, there's some very interesting judicial rulings that we've been getting from the state's criminal courts. Why don't you set this one up? Yeah, so there's this convicted sex offender in Minnesota who served no prison time for previous rapes. And so if you guys want to throw to 252. Abde Mahat, Billy Muhammad, but prosecutors say the 28-year-old uses the names Karim and Altesto on Snapchat. And that is where investigators say he met his latest victim as well as his two previous ones. His profile was already in the database from previous cases involving sexual assaults in Minneapolis in 2017 and another one in 2024.

A Hedeman County judge sentenced Muhammad in May in those cases. including one involving a 15-year-old girl. Prosecutors say two other unidentified men took part in that assault and one threatened the victim with a gun. But Muhammad never spent a day in prison, as we said, because he got credit for time served while awaiting trial as part of a pair of plea deals. So, Bill, this really seems the other side of the coin.

It's that you allow fraud to happen with practical impunity. And even when you have someone dead to rights on most heinous violent crimes, It just seems there's this breezy devil-may-care attitude. They're released back into the wild to hurt people again. Is that really what's going on? Exactly. The key words in that report that you just aired were Hennepin County. Hennepin County is the largest by-population county in Minnesota.

It includes the city of Minneapolis, which got mentioned in the report as well. And that crime, if I recall correctly, the most recent one occurred in the city of Bloomington, which is also in Hennepin County, home to the Mall of America. Hennepin County's prosecutor, the lead prosecutor, elected official, Mary Moriarty, notorious soft on crime. And the officials, the judges, rather, in Hennepin County are notoriously soft on crime as well. So it's entirely the pattern you see time and time again, convicted felons, even violent felons. It's almost impossible to get sent to state prisons, at least on the first or second try.

The stayed sentences, time served, we heard that in the report, the plea deals. They think the idea is prison is the wrong. We have an over-incarceration problem, according to Mary Moriarty and a lot of judges. They think the solution has never sent somebody for prison. I don't know what the solution is in their view, healing circles or alternatives to detention, but it's nearly impossible to actually get prison time, no matter how violent the crime is. to the point where we've seen exactly what happened with these white collar crimes, these fraud crimes, is the federal prosecutors that have stepped in and filled the gap.

They have literally taken over cases from Hennepin County prosecutors and prosecuted them in federal court with the knowledge there was a much higher likelihood that the, the offended if convicted, would actually serve a prison sentence and serve a full prison sentence at that. So especially the gang problem, this didn't sound like a gang problem. problem, but there's a big gang problem in Minneapolis, ethnic gangs. You know, the president says they're running amok. He's not wrong. But the feds have stepped in, Andy Lugar, the Biden appointee, and then the new Trump appointee have been vigorously prosecuting gang violence, some of the more notorious violent crimes because

Barry Moriarty, the county attorney and the judges just won't take care of the job. I don't really blame the law enforcement folks. They make the arrests. They make the case. They make the cases. They hand it over to prosecutors. The prosecutors cut plea deals. The judges won't impose prison sentences. All right. I want to give you, I shouted out your blog. Tell people where they can read your work. Yes, I write for the center of the American Experiment at Americanexperiment. Or you can reach me also at powerline blog. Powerlineblog.com. They are real MVP's. I've loved them. I've been reading them for 20 years. That's how old they are. Thank you so much for coming on, Bill, and it's probably not the last time if Minnesota keeps at it.

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