The Charlie Kirk Show - The Charlie Revival is Underway — Are You In or Out?

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

Robby Starbuck is currently suing Google AI for maliciously going after him, but is this a one-off or an indicator of what's to come? He joins Jack and Andrew to explain, and then they speak with Megan Basham on the evangelical elites and why young people are flocking back to church, starting even before Charlie's assassination and continuing to rise in enthusiastic numbers. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!    Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You've got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as much.

many kids as possible. Go start a turning point USA College Chapter. Go start a turning point you would say high school chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life and I encourage you to do the same. Here I am.

Lord, use me. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold. leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers. All right. Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

Right now we're going to welcome in Robbie Starbuck, friend of the show, friend of Charlie's. He's a filmmaker, host. He's a corporate activist, and he is now suing Google to, I guess he did it yesterday, he announced it. And in a story that could only be described as legit. legitimately dystopian robbie starbuck welcome to the charlie kirk show my friend and it's uh it's so good to have you back on the show thank you guys it's good to see you all yeah so you got jack missovic here by the way there you go and so so you're suing google i mean you have been

absolutely tip of the spear on a lot of this uh corporate activism de wokeifying the corporate corporations in america and the boardrooms getting them to sort of come to their senses again robbie But this story is crazy. It's like Google AI just created, this is, what is this, Gemini? I guess there's three different names. You can explain it to us. But they basically are accusing you of having a criminal record and all of these allegations. And they not only invented the criminal record, but they invented fake victims, fake therapy records, fake court records, fake police records.

So they built the whole novel about your life that never existed. Tell us what's going on here. This is truly freaking. Wait, unless Robbie, confirm for us right now. Are you in La Cosa Nostro? Are you part of this NBA scheme? Google would probably say yes. But yeah, no, to rewind this, it started two years ago with their product called Bard.

Bard had made up all kinds of crazy stuff saying that I was a supporter of the KKK and that it made arguments for why I should be put to death for offending leftists. And so, you know, we raised the red flag to Google and said, hey, this. this series probably needs to be fixed. So they were put on notice two years ago, and they obviously didn't fix anything, because throughout the other iterations of their AI, Bard became Gemini, and then they have the deep-mind model called Gemma. Gemma is the most pervasively malicious model that they have put out.

It has accused me of being an alleged child rapist, of being on the Epstein list, of being a shooter, being wanted for murder at one point, all kinds of crazy stuff. And here is the wildest part. It's not some one-liner issue where it just invents something for one line and then it pops back into reality or something like that. No, this is a committed elaborate lie where it names victims. It names evidence like therapy records, police documents, court records. And then it does something that I have never seen from any AI and can only be described as totally malicious. And it is that it adds in news articles.

When you ask it to cite its sources, it will create fake articles from real media outlets. So it'll say, oh, yeah, read this story in Fox News, read this story in the Daily Wire, read the story in human events, read the story in MSNBC. And it'll even create a fake link and a fake headline to the story. So it's trying to launder the elaborate lies it tells by imitating and impersonating these media outlets that people maybe inherently trust, right? And so their hope is you don't click it. But if you do click it and you say, hey, these links don't work.

It says, oh, don't worry about that. It will actually write a full fake article about these supposed events. So it leads the person to believe that this actually occurred. Unless you really, really, really, really, really know me, like, you know, my wife, you know, you would question these things. It is so elaborate, so detailed. How could you not when it's naming victims, naming, you know, Rolling Stone exposés and all of these really intimate, horrible details of these alleged

supposed rapes. Oh, that's great. I mean, this is a, I mean, this is sort of like a worst case scenario, AI, at least in its current iteration. I'm sure as the technology advances, we can think of even more elaborate and terrible things that could happen in the future, Robbie. But this is, this is, and I want to get your, I'm not sure what you're allowed to even speculate on because now you have a, you have a court case here. But, Like, my question is, is this the AI that has decided to target you, maybe for some of your corporate activism, you know, or do you think there's still a person behind this that basically put a digital AI hit on you and then the AI has been unleashed to do its bidding of, of its

master? Or is it its own master? You know what's interesting? I wish we knew the exact answer to that question. And I have my own opinion, but I think maybe the one I should put front and center is actually Google's AI and their opinion. Google's AI says that what it has done is so malicious, so consistent, and has so many different moving parts and so many unique lies. And the fact that Google hasn't fixed it leads it to believe. And it has said that Google did this for political reasons. Their own AI said this, that there was a political reason for why this is occurring and why it hasn't been fixed.

We didn't feed that answer to it. That is what Google's own artificial intelligence says repeatedly, not once, but many times. And so, you know, to me, you know, I sort of use Occam's Razor, like what is the simplest answer because simplest answer is probably right. And simplest answer to me is that there's biased, injected into it on purpose,

because Google, it's no secret is a left-wing company. So that's my opinion. You know, if you look at the company, the history of it, these are executives running this company who cried when Donald Trump was elected. You're telling me that these folks who have fought for policies like DEI and ingrained it throughout their organization are not giant, you know, sort of enemies to what I fight for. Yeah, I'm sure they are. You know, so it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case because it's sort of the simplest

answer that makes the most sense. And their AI seems to agree. Jack, feel free to chime in here if you got questions, but I mean, I've got like 20 of them. So, well, so this, this reminds me, Robbie, of this media research center article, this research piece that they just put out recently, where it's talking about, and this is beyond just Google's AI, but it's the actual Google main search engine, where they're talking about how if you search, apparently it's like, I have to look at the names again. I think it's like J.D. Vance, Charlie Kirk, Jack Posobic, a couple of other people. And if you search some of these names, the very first Google link that comes up is the disgraced far, left Antifa-linked organization of the SPLC, which so many people, including Elon Musk and the FBI, are no longer using as a credible source. And yet, for some reason, Google puts that as the very first result, which is an organization that just exists as a smear factory, when even by Google's own metrics, they used to say that the highest ranked ones are the ones that people

cite the most. And you can't even find any actual, they found the MRC went through, and they said, we couldn't find any evidence to back up people citing this. So why is it the number one result? Yeah, I mean, to me, that looks like intentionally poisoned data sets, right, and choices that the company is making. When you think about this, actually, to your point, the SPLC was cited by their AI in many cases as backup for the lies that it was inventing. So this is happening on their AI platforms as well. I will say this, you know, my lawsuit at the end of it, I think one of the big goals here is you fix the bias long term throughout Google products because this just cannot happen. People need to understand there's a multitude of different second order effects from this type of

behavior from a company, right? One is think about the deployment of this sort of defamation during election seasons, right? So think about the closest seats, the ones that decide the balance of power in our country. If Google is allowed to deploy malicious AI that defames candidates and they do it to the candidates they don't like. You could see an election where a bunch of the tightest races see the Republican candidates described with fake crimes that they never committed and associating them with the most heinous beliefs in things you possibly could while you go and fluff up the resumes of leftists who are totally not, you know, in a position where anybody should be electing them to even dog catcher, right? And so you could see the balance of power in the country

decided by maliciously programmed AI. And the second, you know, thing I would say is safety. I mean, this is the most obvious conversation, right? Google was linking to what I would describe as a very hateful group, the SPLC, who has this supposed hate list that looks more like a hit list, right? And then their AI is describing conservatives like me, the way that we've seen it describe me and the way that it has framed me as a criminal. And so the end result is, what do you think they want to happen? We could all end up victims the way Charlie was.

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You'll get the info, which could really help you and your family out, save money, get great health care, text the word, Kirk, K-I-R-K to 70246, that's Kirk to 70246 to get the facts. That's Kirk to 70246. What you're getting to is so critically important. We talked about this actually, you know, Jack was just profiled in the Atlantic this morning as, you know, Maga's top influencer or something to that effect. And we just got streamed with emails at Freedom at Charlie Kirk.com. Everybody's worried about Jack.

I mean, we could put Jack back. Thank you. Everybody's worried about Jack that this is putting a target on his back. I mean, I think posts what happened with Charlie, everybody's terrified about that. And, you know, rightfully so. But this is a new iteration in this battle for keeping our people safe and our activists safe like you, Robbie. And I totally agree that this is if somebody just some left-wing lunatic on some Discord chat started quoting Gemini or what did you call it, Gamma? Gemma, Gemma, like, if they start quoting this as an authoritative source, who knows who that would radicalize, not to mention the defamation and the character assassination that this puts you in, but at 1,000% puts a target on your back. And, you know, I think our audience would love to hear how you feel about that.

Yeah, I mean, the FBI right now is investigating multiple death threats against me. And a man was arrested in this last year for wanting to kill me. And so natural question, um, Did any of them read about me through Google AI platforms? We don't know, you know, but I would like to know. I think that, you know, it's not a leap to say somebody could be radicalized by this and try to kill somebody. You know, beyond me, though, like, this hasn't happened yet to the degree that I think it sadly will one day. But some of our families are in danger too, right? Like, some lunatic could make a mistake and think they're coming after one of us and we're actually not there. and they actually attack our children or our wives.

And I'm, you know, frankly dreading that day coming. I just feel like that is the next thing that's going to happen in this left-wing terror because I know the types of threats that you guys and myself and our friends are getting and they're increasing, they're escalating. And the tone is essentially nothing's off limits, right? We're not the only targets. And that's something that makes it very hard to sleep at night. And I think that these companies like Google are being grossly negligent in what they've done by essentially backing up the most radical lies about us.

Well, said, Robbie. And I think Jack and I share your concerns. Our audience certainly does. You know, we take steps to protect the POSO household. And if people want to find out just how big of supporters of the Second Amendment we are, they're welcome to find it. Same here. And I think that's something that's critically important. I've been encouraging a lot of our friends do the same thing. like you've got to be trained your spouse's got to be trained my kids are trained you know like god forbid but they are they're trained on how to handle a firearm competently because god forbid that moment comes some crazy person which has happened before they've shown up at our house you know um i want my kids to be able to defend themselves you know um so it that's the crazy thing we shouldn't have to live like this you know i saw this tweet recently like only we have to live like this and i don't

want my enemies to live like this you know i wouldn't wish it on their children or their spouse and it's disgusting that that is the case but that's where we are you know another thing i'd throw out about this google story and this is sort of breaking here is i am in contact with the house judiciary committee and i think you're going to see a lot more on that angle very soon oh wow oh interesting very good um so yeah it reminds everything we're talking about here though by the way guys reminds me we had mike sernovich on the show and you know after this no king stuff and he had that great tweet where he was like listen you all get to have your protests and you're not worried about snipers on some buildings you're not worried about somebody coming up and in assaulting you because you know we don't do that sort of thing on our side we're actually the safer side we believe in law and order open debate open dialogue meanwhile you guys are are openly mocking uh the death of charlie you're you're antagonizing conservatives with hand gestures to the neck we have jollanda jones on cnn last night on on erin burnett she's running for

for Congress saying that we're not going to punch you back in the face, we're going to come at your neck across your neck. We've got a student at ASU that says watch your necks. I mean, this is what, this is the modern left and the rise of left wing violence and a political assassination culture that's, I think, was sparked with Luigi Maggioni as the inciting incident, but obviously that had been building behind the scenes for a long time. This is, this is the core political and cultural issue of our current epic. and I hate that, and we need to get to the bottom of it. And first things first, these Democrats have to be held accountable for stoking it

and on their tech platforms like Google AI. I want to, I just want to play this clip because we haven't gotten to it yet. This is Jolanda Jones. She's running for Congress in Texas, 277. I'm from the hood, okay? So if you hit me in my face, I'm not going to punch you back in your face. I'm going to go across your neck. We need to wipe out every Republican in New York

in California in Illinois so no one can make me feel bad about fighting oh okay I'm from the hood says Jolanda and then it's almost like I don't know she knew exactly what she was doing because this seems to be a trend here guys throw up a B roll this is lucy Martinez who's still not been fired from her job at an elementary school 64 please this lucy Martinez that is was caught in the no kings rally doing a gunshot gesture to her neck. Oh, and then, oh, yeah, there's more. Let's play cut 226. This is at ASU, some pink-haired young lady, 226.

Hey, Nazis, can you set up somewhere where I can avoid you easily? Yeah, thank you. Have a great day. Oh, you, Nazi. Watch your neck. Thanks. Watch your necks. I mean, this is just a smattering, guys, of all of the things that we've seen at these no kink. Go ahead, go ahead, Jack.

One piece that I've been trying to work hard to get out there, and I mentioned this on Pierce Morgan the other day as well, and it didn't go quite as viral as some of the other moments from that interview. But the phrase no kings itself is a phrase that derives from the French Revolution. No kings, no lords, specifically derives from the French Revolution. So the original no kings protests are also known as the reign of terror. and included, of course, the ubiquitous guillotine by Maximilian Robespierre, where they were beheading public officials in the streets of Paris. So when you have a phrase like this, no kings, and then Antifa for years has used no kings, no masters. So they will say no kings, no masters as they launched these attacks on streets, on public conservatives, things like that, on churches, burning churches. So no kings, no lords.

That was one of the original slogans of the French Revolution, the most violent group then no kings no masters gets brought up by that antifa groups over the years and over the past few decades and now we see the mass mainstreaming of this violent rhetoric no kings in the no kings protests and so this is a phrase again just like bella chow just like hey fascist catch like all these other antifa symbols and antifa symbology that if you've been researching these groups you're actually very familiar with but it's now being mainstreaming on a much bigger level that people aren't familiar with and because the media doesn't do any actual research, they don't realize the references that they're making. Actually, in the clip you

just showed, they mentioned 1930s Germany. 1930s Germany, the Weimar Republic was the first iteration of Antifa. So they know exactly what they're referencing. No kings. They know where that comes from. It means beheadings. It is violence and it has always been violence upon which this rest upon. And Jack and Robbie, I want to throw to you, Robbie, next just because you're the victim of this incredible defamation, this slander campaign from an AI. But, but, you know, what you were just talking about, Jack, it reminds me of those, we would mock it during the, I think, in 2024, 2023, where, you know, the SPLC and the ADL had these long, elaborate databases of all the numbers that were used by white supremacist. And it was like, there was basically like three

numbers left. Every single number was somehow coded in white supremacist lore. And we were using My kids watch number blocks. Does that make them white supremacists now? But there is such a lack of just interest by the media to document some of these far left coatings that you're seeing at these rallies. Or was it complicity? Yeah, well, it could have been complicity. But here, Robbie, the floor is yours, my friend. A minute and a half left in this segment.

Let's say, let's say a minute. You know, sum up what you're going through and what you plan to do next. Yeah, in the words of the great POSO, we watched them kill our friend and we watched them celebrate it. And so that's constantly, I think, in a lot of our minds. Like when we wake up and go through our day, we think about what they did to Charlie and how it wasn't just one bullet. It was a whole campaign that led up to that, right? And it can be done many different ways. What we're seeing here with Google is another form of harassment, defamation, and intention.

intimidation and dehumanization that leads to violence. It encourages violence. It's incredibly dangerous. So I'm suing Google, not just for me, but to make this stop, to fix the bias in AI in companies like Google and to hold them accountable for what they've done. Because we don't want to wait for there to be another Charlie type of event. But we are on a path right now where there is going to be. And so it's going to take concerted effort and action from all of us.

on your elected representatives do something about this. You know, I think this should be one of the great issues of our time is ensuring that AI cannot harm humans. That should be a first principle of AI. It cannot harm humans in any way. Ask your representatives to get on it. Absolutely. Robbie Starbucks, filmmaker and activist suing Google. Godspeed to you, my friend. This is the Charlie Kirk Show. We are all about saving babies with preborn. There are 24,836 kindergarten. starting school this month who would not be alive if it hadn't been for what pre-born did in 2019. That's how many babies were saved that year because of gifts of ultrasounds from people just like you in this audience. When a woman considering abortion sees her baby on that ultrasound and

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The great Megan Basham from... Let's go. She is the author of the New York Times best-selling book. They couldn't keep her off. Shepherds for sale. She's also host on Daily Wire, the Daily, I believe, or hold on, hold on. Culture Reporter. What am I talking about?

I don't know. You're the host, right, Megan? Morning Wire. I just blanked. I apologize. you're the competition we have so much products i know it's really true so megan you um you had this really i think just it you know sometimes you see somebody they they crystallize something for you in a moment in a tweet in a thought and this has been something that's really been bother me actually

and i had i didn't have words for it but you you know obviously when charlie uh was murdered there was this amazing outpouring of support and love and right so. And so, like, I'm not here to, to hold people. Like, I don't, I'm not trying to be a jerk. I don't want to be like, well, you didn't, you, you weren't 100% on board before. And so now you can't say anything nice. No, that's not what I'm saying. I actually think that's a good thing. Like, I want you to embrace. Wait, was Megan not on board. Get her off the show. Yeah. This is a debate, Megan. We're about to hold. I was always on board. You were always on board. But you said this. Go ahead and throw this up. 292. Charlie Kirk to young men, you need to go to a Bible study instead of a bar. And yet our

evangelical leadership class kept him at arms distance because he was an outspoken conservative and Trump supporter. All caps, that's what the problem is. And I just thought that was so well put and a point well made, Megan, because like, yes, everybody could, you know, especially in evangelical circles, we're not talking about Antifa here, the far left wackos. Of course they said this is terrible. We condemn this. This is how tragic and our heart goes out, all the stuff. But you're right that in life, I mean, by the way, our TPSA faith chapters, our network of churches has doubled. So this is a mixed bag. There's good. There's good stories here. But there is in Big Eva, as we call it. I was meeting with a pastor yesterday that said, Big Eva is under God's

judgment in his opinion. Okay. You can take that. I agree. I agree. So maybe start there. And what is the problem? What is the issue here that is holding Big Eva back? It is getting in their way from embracing wholeheartedly somebody like Charlie? Yeah. I'm so glad that you invited me on to talk about this, Andrew, because it drives me nuts. And if you follow me on X, you probably have picked up how much it drives me nuts, that there is this double standard about embracing somebody who is doing evangelism, who is speaking in the Christian space, but who is politically connected, because you will have an organization

like the Gospel Coalition. It's a media outlet. They also have their Keller Center for Cultural Engagement and their fellows there. It's extremely well known. And what they do is they will bring on people like Michael Ware, who is a Democratic operative who worked in the Obama administration. And they will put him forward as somebody who is doing faith and politics combined very well. They will also have someone like Justin Gibney of the and campaign, someone who our friend Alibeth Stuckey has covered a lot, who is a democratic activist, even as he kind of tours to these allegedly conservative churches

and conferences. So they're happy to welcome him. But they were never happy to welcome Charlie. You never saw Charlie spoken well of on the gospel coalition. You never saw him being invited to their conferences. And I don't know if you have this. I sent this over to you. But this was the attitude that they took with Charlie. In 2021, one of their primary writers and vice president over at the conservative Christian publisher Crossway said something like, you know, you don't have to give Charlie Kirk more views, right? That perfectly encapsulate sort of the attitude that they took towards Charlie.

You did not see him getting invited to chapels to speak at, say, Wheaton or Biola or even Grove City or any of these colleges that are supposed to be conservative Christian colleges, orthodox colleges. So they were happy to have the Democratic operatives on, but they were not happy to have Charlie on. And then even further, when Charlie was assassinated, when he was martyred, and I want to use that word very specifically, they were put in an awkward position because suddenly people who hadn't been paying attention that closely saw an outpouring of love for the Lord, a strong, bold Christian witness. And I think that served as a rebuke to the sort of squishy faith that has been embraced and the kind of compromises that we've seen in big

evangelicalism. So suddenly there was this stark contrast to what they had been doing. And that put them, I think, in a difficult position. So you did see some well wishes after that. But just as quickly as you saw the well wishes and you saw the the laments and saying, we're very sorry that this happened. They were very careful not to praise his politics. And after that, you started to even see, I mean, maybe it took maybe a week, two weeks before the heavily critical article started to come out. So then Christianity today ran, you know, something on, well, the black voices in our churches are not so happy that we are lamenting Charlie Kirk's death.

And by the way, I also want to add Christianity today to those who were very disliked. of Charlie before his death. Their editor-in-chief, Russell Moore, on his podcast, would do that he would name TPSA, but he would talk about these political campus movements that are dividing the faith. And it was obviously a reference to Charlie and T.P. USA. So when Charlie was assassinated and people saw so clearly what his record was on evangelizing, on getting out to college campuses and speaking to young people, young men in particular in the way that I quoted in that tweet, because he did say that. He said, you young men, stop going to the bar, start going to Bible studies, you know,

just putting it plainly, really the air to Billy Graham in a very strong way. So when that happened, that put them in an awkward position. And then you started to see things like these very well-known conservative Christian conference speakers starting to criticize Charlie and starting to say, hey, wait a minute, let's not be too eager to look to his model, even as we're seeing, you know, all of these people coming to the faith on the basis of what they saw at the memorial and speaking that he did and all of these clips that are now circulating. So one example of that is Pastor Mike Kelsey, who is a co-paster of McLean Bible Church in Washington, D.C. It is so.

supposed to be a conservative Orthodox church. And yet here is what he said right after Charlie Kirk's if we can play the Mike Kelsey clip. We have the clip. Play cut 332. In fact, in some cases, I was shocked that so many professing Christians were rationalizing things that were so demeaning and unchrist-like and not just rationalizing things he said, but idolizing him as the prototype for a new generation of Christians. And here's my point in all of that. This is not just Charlie. Charlie Kirk, this is all of us. Every single one of us is tempted to talk to or about people in ways that not only dishonor them, but the God who created them in his image. So I just want to say one thing here really quick. Yeah. I mean, so Charlie knew that his calling from the Lord was very

specific. He was a prophet. And what do they do to prophets? They kill prophets. Why? Because they speak the truth boldly and clearly and without reservation and the people hate it and what he he said this multiple times said it to me he said it on podcast he was put on this planet to confront evil and to proclaim the truth and what this tells me is that there is evil that it lies whatever that are being clung to within the halls of the church within the four walls of the church big eva are clinging to lies and i just when i hear him speak like that I'm just thinking lie, lie, lie, cultural compromise, compromise, zero courage, and it's extraordinarily frustrating. But I digress. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I actually, I want to play one more clip just to set

the table for this. And then I'll explain why they're doing this. So, you know, the other one is from Jackie Hill Perry. And if you're not familiar with her, again, she is a Christian author. And she has done some good things, you know, gay girl, good God. That was a really good book. And I like her in some respects but she has been widely welcomed despite having some progressive ideas onto all of these allegedly christian conservative platform she is welcome to speak at seminary she is welcome to speak at christian college chapel so let's hear what she said after charlie was assassinated this is uh cut 3 30 let's go ahead and throw it up why don't you think he's a martyr and it's like because i actually i heard what he said yeah and so it's not that i don't appreciate

his stances on abortion, on sexuality, on marriage, but it's also, I hear other things alongside that that don't give martyr. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm going to say unequivocally, Charlie was a martyr. Charlie was assassinated for his Christian beliefs. That's a martyr. We would not say that John the Baptist was not a martyr because, well, technically, he was murdered because he called out King Herod for his incestuous marriage to his niece.

You know, we don't do that. We recognize that when you are murdered for your Christian beliefs, you are a legitimate martyr and Charlie was. And so what we are not seeing from all of these large evangelical outlets and seminaries and schools is we're not seeing any correction or rebuke for this kind of language. And so even as they have somewhat come out after the fact and now said, well, okay, you know, Charlie had some good things that he did. he did sort of draw some young men to faith, they're in an awkward position because what Charlie's

example did is it pointed out how they have failed to do that. They have failed to speak to the young men. They have failed to pick up that mantle of Billy Graham and evangelize the next generation. And, you know, there's a very specific thing here that puts them in this awkward position. And it's something called the third way. And if you're not familiar with that, it's a method of evangelizing that says because we want to save some people in the church and bring them to church, we want to be very careful not to align politically with either the left or right. We have to say that, you know, Jesus wasn't a Democrat or a Republican as if, you know, the two sides are morally equal, as if there's a symmetry between them.

And they'll do tricky things like say, oh, well, you know, they're here on immigration and the right is here on abortion, and both of those are pro-life issues, even though one is a legitimately biblically debatable issue, and the other one is murder and not debatable. So, you know, I think that what we're seeing now is that they kept Charlie at arm's length because he showed a different way that wasn't the third way. It was a bold Christian witness that said, these are my political priorities, and these are my political priorities because I follow Christ. What it makes me think of is fear God, not man. And these churches, Big Eva, guess who they fear? They fear, man. It's very clear. This is Lane Schoenberger, Chief Investment Officer and founding partner of Y-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-E-Fi.

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a payment up to 12 times without penalty it may not be available in all 50 states go to yrefi dot com that is y are efy.com let's face it if you have distress or default to student loans it can be overwhelming because of private student loan debt so many people feel stuck go to yrefi.com that is y r e fy dot com private student loan debt relief y refi dot com the young kids they don't want you to kind of sanitize all this stuff for them they will come and flocks for you to say the blunt truth that you think is going to offend them yes you need Jesus, but do you know why? You see, the reason why it's not yet being translated into revival is that they say, of course, Jesus is your Savior, but we're not connecting the dots.

How do you know you need a Savior if you don't know what you're saved from? And you only know what you're saved from if you talk about sin. So we focus everything on the fact that someone's going to save you from drowning, yet we don't tell a generation that they're drowning. It's the most suicidal generation in history, the most drug addicted generation in history, the most porn addicted generation history, but objectively the most miserable generation in history. And yet we say, you're just perfect the way you are. They don't feel perfect the way they are. They're telling you that everything is not okay. And the message that Christianity gives you is, well, he gets you you or whatever that commercial is. No, that's actually not how you win young people over.

You win them over being like, you know what? You know why you're miserable? Because you're not following God's laws and commands. That was a complete condemnation. of Big Eva, and they're like, go along to get along. Everything has to come out squeaky clean. You have to use clean language. And Charlie's up there, brass knuckles hitting the truth right square in the eyes and saying, this is the truth. Repent and be saved.

You are drowning as a generation. You are miserable. And Jack, I think that this is why so many young people are flocking to the Catholic Church. You know, I'm a cradle Catholic. I got saved in the evangelical Protestant movement. I love both. I'm not picking a team here. I'm just saying I love both.

Jack, talk about that, maybe, about what you're seeing in the Catholic Church and why this sort of like traditional presentation of the gospel of Jesus Christ is working right now. Yeah, no, it's certainly something that we see in the Catholic Church, but a lot of people have to understand. They say, well, what about Pope Leo? Like, he's going kind of woke on a few things the same way Francis was. And something actually Charlie and I even talked about when I was on this show from the conclave when Pope Leo came in. And Charlie was the first person I spoke to about that. But what you really see going on on the Catholic side right now is the trad-Cath movement. And the Trad-Cath movement, which apparently was so, so radical, that the FBI under the auspices of Merrick Garland and Chris Ray launched an investigation into us, because I guess we're playing the Rosary a little bit too hard and a little bit too Latin-y.

But it's the Latin Mass that's really attracting a lot of people because the Latin Mass is willing to stand up. and most practitioners of Latin Mass or what they call it, like, uh, TLM, the traditional at the mass, that, you know, it's not woke. It's there's, you won't find, you know, those, those like female Eucharistic ministers. You won't see altar girls, right? It's just full on traditional, unchanging, um, untranging biblical doctrine, unchanging truth and unchanging homilies where they guys will get up there and say, we live in a sinful time and you need to repent of your sinful ways. And I think people are just thirsty for that.

They want something that's righteous and true, not something that is lukewarm, because as we know, that which is lukewarm gets spit out. I think that's a great way to put it. And Megan, I want to get your reaction to that clip you saw off, Charlie. I mean, it was just such a confrontation to the skinny jeans, TED Talk Christianity and the clean language and never going to offend anybody. The Starbucks Cup.

The Starbucks Cup. And I feel like if there was like a, the spirit of the age, like in the church at least that is just so it and he's like you're drowning they're telling you they're not okay but you just want to give them the sanitized gospel yeah and what really strikes me there is that you know it's it was such powerful preaching and that was absolutely preaching right there but if you went to some of these organizations and ask them why don't you include charlie in some of your events why don't you invite him i mean he's the most popular and persuasive speaker on conservative campuses and all campuses really bringing a gospel message,

why would you not invite him and include him? And what they would tell you is that third way thing, which is, well, we don't want to be political, we don't want to throw up a political obstacle to people coming to Christ. And yet, one, that wasn't true, because they would have left-wing, quote-unquote, Christians. I question the faith of some of those people. But they would have people who worked in the Obama administration.

They would have people who were democratic activists coming and being a part of their organization. So that wasn't true. And then the other thing was, I think that Charlie, and I didn't have time to grab a clip of this, but it's circulating out there on social media. He wasn't afraid to call out their sins, the big evangelical machine sins. And I think that is another reason that they didn't want him because who knows what he might say. You know, he kind of boldly called out Biola, which is a well-known evangelical institution school.

He said, look, Biola is lost. They have brought in transgender ideology. they are teaching queer theory and for that reason i cannot recommend their school now that is not how you know the associational games are played in big evangelicalism so charlie didn't play the game and so you know they wouldn't invite him for that reason even though he was more effective at bringing young people to christ than anyone else in our generation and you know i've seen it in my own life just this week my husband has a young trainer uh you know buff built 20 something tat it up And he came to us a couple of weeks ago after Charlie's death and just said, hey, can I come to church with you?

I am feeling really affected by all this. And you've been inviting me and I want to come. I love that. You know, and the same pastor was telling me that he thinks that the revival is going to bypass a lot of the church pews, that it's going to, like it's going to completely bypass them because these are testing moments in our culture. These are testing moments and you either pass the test or you fail it. And the gospel will march forward and the revival will march forward and the revival. revival that Charlie's martyrdom has sparked will march forward. And the question is, do you want to be a part of it or not? Megan Basham, this was excellent. I so enjoyed this. And it just was very cathartic for me. And we even worked some Catholic stuff in there for you, Jack. Thanks so much. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliecirk.com.