The Charlie Kirk Show - THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 109 — Tyler Robinson In Court

Episode Date: December 13, 2025

The ThoughtCrime crew covers Tyler Robinson's first in-person court hearing. Did he really smile in court? Why are things moving so slowly? And would conspiracies around Charlie's death be weaker if justice showed more urgency? Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!    Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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friends, and viewers. All right, guys, Jack Pasovic, we are live, another edition of Thought Crime Thursday. We've got breaking news hard and fast in the Tyler Robinson trial. We're on with Blake Neff. What's up, Blake? Howdy? Howdy? Good to see you, Jack.

You as well, and Cliff Maloney. How are you, Cliff? Doing great. Thanks for having me, gents. All right, guys. So the judge is currently ruling on information regarding and motions regarding whether or not cameras will be allowed in the courtroom for Tyler Robinson, who is the accused murderer of Charlie, or our friend. And I've been seeing a lot of information that Judge Graff made a ruling regarding Charlie's, regarding cameras in the courtroom. However, people need to understand that the ruling that just came down, and I see this going down, viral online even as we speak, that was only about cameras in the courtroom today as pertains

to this specific hearing and possibly pre-trial hearings in general. There's also mentioned, and I've got this from a reporter that Graff wrote, or excuse me, stated that we've set aside the 30th of January, and that might be the one that wanted to say to argue our anticipated motion that's coming about keeping court with other court. cameras in the courtroom. I went to weigh in as well. It will be on January 30th. So on January 30th is the one that they're making that ruling for. They're not making a ruling yet as of this time for the entire courtroom trial. Blake Matthew, you've been watching us. Is this understanding as well? Yeah, yeah. That seems right. It went out in a few places that they'd already ruled, but that's not

surprising. Kind of everything about this case seems to take forever, which we complained about on the show today. And I promptly got an email from another person who works. another murder trials, and she said it's just always like this. She said she's seen absolute open and shut gangbanger shooting cases take two years to resolve. And so that sadly might be like this even for something as basic as getting cameras into the courtroom, which we're all hoping for, I think. Besides that, I guess the main thing we've gotten out of this because people need something

to feast on is we do have really our first in a quarter. courtroom video footage of Tyler Robinson. We have people analyzing his facial expressions, because there's not too much to analyze otherwise at this point, whether his, whether the look on his face in profile, which we're showing right now, is he smiling? Is he laughing? A lot of people have had that interpretation. I'll admit, I've only gotten a chance to look at it a few times. I'm not sure I see laughing. You can see a sort of grin a few times, but I could understand if someone's saying. said it was otherwise.

And by the way, guys, I'm going to share in the chat right now. I just got the otter note with the full transcript. So if you guys want to get it in. But yeah, so, oh, excuse me, the media access, actually January 30, it is now moved because the hearing is still going on. So they now move back to February 3rd. So, Blake, to your point, there we go. They're just moving it out again.

They're moving it out to moving it out. I would say, though, if you have, does anyone have that picture of Charlie, or excuse me, Charlie, of Tyler Robinson, this, you know, where it's kind of zoomed in, it's like a zoomed in picture of him. And Blake, you know, to your point, I'll send in the chat. I didn't necessarily see him laughing in this video, but there's one spot where that, I mean, that's just definitely a smile. And, you know, there are times where Brian Etton out of News Nation. who does a lot of this reporting, he said that, you know, sometimes it can be a tactic by defense teams to say, try to look more human, try to smile, try to humanize yourself with the jury or any potential jurors who might be watching. So act normal. And yet, when you see this specific image of him smiling and you see sort of the way that he's acting, I mean, to me, he looks very smug. He looks very smug. He seems. he's it's a grin it's a grin it's a smirk that you see in these images and we're going to get that up and show you guys in just a second but this is I'm just going to say it guys this was very it's hard to watch all right I'm going to say right now it's really hard for me to watch and see this guy yucking it up with his lawyers there at the table and grinning and certainly not looking remorseful certainly not looking as though he's sad that we're in the proceedings for the death of a good man, the death of a father, the death of a husband.

He's just, you know, very nonchalant and, you know, having a good time hanging out. Like he doesn't have a care in the world. And, you know, I don't know the strategy or what, but I got very upset watching this earlier today. And I, yeah, I can't even really say publicly what I want to say. Cliff, I don't know, what do you think? What were your thoughts when you saw this um this video well i think this was a big moment for everybody uh at least for me i mean i texted tyler about this when i first saw the image of him grinning i think i did the same thing yeah in a weird way i think all of us are dealing with this in different ways and it it still comes in waves and sometimes it still doesn't feel real this was a moment right when he

seeing him like as an actual person i'm not my calling him that he's nice not worthy of being called a human being it's a piece of garbage but it really really really just made this thing real again. And I think it was a moment, you know, to see him not just as, you know, hey, this prisoner who we saw briefly in, in the, you know, the prison garb, but now to be in a dress shirt and a tie that people surrounding him, defending him. You know, it's the justice system. It's going to play its way out.

But it was tough to watch. And let me just say this to everybody out there. These trials are going to take time. Okay. It's going to be frustrating. There's going to be so much that they have to prove. that he is a person, that he was there, that there is a campus, the campus exists in Utah. There are so many, I want to call them preliminary things, but things that for most normal folks,

if you've never been into a criminal trial, if you've never seen one, there are so many mundane things that the prosecutors are going to have to prove that are real things. And to us, it's so obvious, but in the court of law, you have to prove those things. And so I do think we should be prepared for this to be a long, drawn-out battle. But as Erica said, Why not be transparent? So that is the wind that we're looking for. We're hoping that this is all going to be on camera, not to glamorize him, but let the people see what this monster did. And let's have an open trial so that there's full transparency.

I agree with Eric on that. Yeah, I really think it's one of those things where there's a lot of, I think a lot of the issues we've encountered with what people say about this. It comes from the psychic overload that people have such strong feelings about Charlie. and about what happened to him, they need to engage with it, they need something to react to, and instead of having an unfolding trial with facts, instead of having all the truly actually quite lurid information about Tyler Robinson and his private life, I think that could be satiating a lot of them, but it's taking a long time because these court proceedings takes so long, and so they're getting diverted into other things. I think it's a big argument in favor of

We should, as a country, spend more on our justice system, have more prosecutors, more judges, whatever it takes to have faster hearings, faster trials, faster turnaround on this sort of thing. Because this is a modern development. You used to be able to do serious trials with serious evidence and serious proceedings within the last 100 years without nearly as much delay for this sort of thing. There have been attempted assassins of presidents who are. tried, convicted, in a fair trial, and in their case, is executed within a two, three month time window. You don't necessarily even need this to be that fast, but it feels very disappointing to me that anyone in a high-profile murder case is taking half a year before you're even getting to jury selection. Yeah, and it's going to continue to drag out. And that's why I'm saying

that, like, I agree with you. But I think it's our job to kind of set the expectation with viewers of the show and people that love Charlie, this is not going to be a four-month thing, right? This is going to take a long time. There's going to be jury selection. There's going to be tons of these just things that from an outside perspective, you're going to say, well, who really cares about that? Why are they able to drag it out? But that's part of the strategy. And sometimes it's for the defense. Sometimes it's for the prosecutors, you know, to kind of get the jury mad at the other side or to be frustrated. But I think, you know, the other thing is selecting a jury in this case, you know, to have a jury that's not tampered or people that haven't seen this,

I mean, this is unprecedented, right? Charlie was everywhere. I think it's hard to find someone, especially now with the news coverage that doesn't know who Charlie Kirk is. And so you're going to have a heck of a jury selection to try to figure out, you know, and some of these rulings are going to be crucial on who the judge lets in, who the judge says, you know, has some sort of bias. And I think that's going to be a key part, you know, to what the prosecution has to do is to making sure that this isn't some issue that goes to a mistrial later because one of the jurors says that, oh, they weren't familiar with it, or they don't know who Charlie is, or they haven't seen any of these reports. I mean, this isn't OJ. Like, we're in an age now where everyone has

access to social media. Everyone has access to content. So that to me is going to be a very, very interesting part of this process. This is Lane Schoenberger, Chief Investment Officer and Founding Partner of Y Reefi. It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turning Point and for Charlie to endorse us. His endorsement means the world to us, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turning Point for years to come. Now, hear Charlie, in his own words, tell you about Y-R-R-R-R-E-F-Y-F-I. I'm going to tell you guys about Y-R-E-F-Y.com. Why refi is incredible. Private student loan debt in America total is about $300 billion.

Why refi is refinancing, distress, or defaulted private student loans. You can finally take control of your student loan situation with a plan that works for your monthly budget. Go to why refi.com. That is why refi.com. Do you have a co-barrower? Why refi can get them released from the loan. You're going to skip a payment up to 12 times without penalty. It may not be available in all 50 states. Go to why refi.com. That is y-R-E-F-Y.com. Let's face it, if you have distress or default to student loans, it can be overwhelming. Because of privacy of loan debt, so many people feel stuck, go to why refi.com. That is Y-R-E-F-Y-F-E-F-E-E-F-E. Why.com. Private student loan debt relief, y refi.com. So one thing that I'm getting from a friend of mine who was watching this and does some work in the true crime, you know, kind of like policy style.

So it says that Erica was officially made the victim in this. And something that a lot of people have pointed out that could. come up in terms of some of the firestorm, the media that's already going on is the Utah witness intimidation law. And I'll put that out right now. And by the way, this is something that comes up in a number of these cases when people have followed them so closely, but then become so, so targeted at witnesses and victims. Here's what it says. Under Utah law, person committing witness, hampering, or intimidation, if they attempt to improperly influence the testimony of someone they know that might testify, to prevent someone from testifying, threaten, harass, or retaliate against someone because of their role, engage in conduct,

intending to make a witness fearful, silent, or less cooperative with the justice process. Utah specifically criminalizes threats, harassment, public accusations intended to spread it, public pressure campaign that could chill testimony with tallyatory conduct towards victims or victim advocates or designated representatives, public statements, even online, can meet the definition that the intent is to affect testimony or cooperation. And so this is something that has come up in a number of these cases where, you know, you have this huge community that gets involved with people have to remember that they are

active cases and in fact there are laws on the books that govern anyone who can get involved in anyone that is that is getting involved in these cases and and that's serious that's a very serious thing and these laws have been on the books for a long time Blake walk us through why we have laws like this I mean we have laws like this because those are the things that people do to escape culpability for crimes we and also frankly a part of it is also there a way like our glorious supreme court has made it difficult to uh execute people unfortunately and so one of the ways they've gone about it is they've said you have to have some aggravating factors before we will allow a heinous perpetrator to

face appropriate uh punishment for their crimes and so you definitely see facets of that throughout the indictment of Tyler Robinson where they threw in that charge for doing something in the presence of a minor. And I think the witness intimidation stuff comes into that because when you're doing stuff against witnesses, that's another thing that's considered a valid aggravating factor in cases. And so you get those in play. They're clearly, they structured the indictment in a way to make sure a court couldn't swoop in later and say there were no aggravating factors so you can't try to bring the death penalty in this case. I just want to clear up something, guys, because I have this.

So the official term is, and, you know, Mayacopa, if I use the wrong term, she is recognized as the designated victim representative. So she'd be officially recognized as a designated victim representative. And so that means she has a right to attend the trial. But as such, a lot of these witness intimidation laws could. potentially if the judge decides to cover the designated victim representative as well, which means they cover Erica. And I mean, Blake, to your point, there's a basic reason we don't want people intimidating

victims in a trial because we want actual justice. Well, for the same reason, we want actual justice. So that's why these laws on witness intimidation also cover victim representative intimidation as well. Yeah, and if I'm understanding this correctly, why I think this opens up a can of worms in a good way is because now all of a sudden, you know, look, defamation, all of us know, you know, some of the vile things we've seen and some of these horrific things that people say about us or anybody that's involved with Charlie or New Charlie, you know, the standard

for defamation is pretty much impossible in the United States. I mean, for public figures, it is pretty much something where to be successful in a defamation case against the public figure, it's just very rare. But now, I'm hearing this and I'm thinking to myself, you know, now it makes it, I think, much more doable that if everyone, or the state wanted to go after somebody that is literally threatening her in a way or defaming her in a way that could intimidate her as a potential witness

or as, you know, the victim representative. Am I saying that correctly? Does that open the door where it's much more liable for somebody to go after somebody that now has that label? Because with defamation, it's pretty much impossible. Yeah, it can be. It's ultimately up to the judge. it's ultimately up to prosecutors in this case.

But yes, it does give her an official standing with the court and in the trial. So what it means, and this has come up in other cases where in other parts of the country, where people have been harassed, intimidated, and then taking it up with the courts, and they've gone back and found rulings on their behalf and said, look, you can't interfere with someone who's directly involved with a trial like this. it is what they view as a form of witness intimidation jury and actually tampering with a jury trial. And by the way, you know, just from a personal perspective, I want everyone to comment on this trial. If we disagree, if you think if you're one of these people who is, I've been calling them the Robin Sims.

So the Tyler Robbins Sims who actually support Tyler Robinson and they think that he's completely innocent and think that there's no way he could have done it and think that's, I want the Robinson to be out there. I'm not calling for them to be arrested or charged or anything like that. And I think they have a perfectly fine First Amendment right to be wrong. For the Robinson, people asking questions. You have a right to ask questions in the country of all the First Amendment. That said, people should be aware that the laws are on the book. And that's just why I'm reading that.

Because very simply, I'm just reading here, victims have rights. It's really simple. There's a bill of rights for victims, and it includes the victim to not be, the freedom to not be publicly correct. and to meet abuse, protection from accusations, mobilization of followers to harass or attack. And so this means that in a sense, and I'm reading this, Erica is now officially tied to the prosecution and the prosecution can take actions to protect her. And that's just something to, that is going to be another, another future of this case, I believe, going forward.

It's possible. I feel like that would be, what you're alluded to would be a stretch. But I guess I would probably appreciate it. It's not a stretch. It's the law. Yeah, I mean, it's the law, but it would be, there's laws and then it's, how do you use those laws? I would be, I would be very pleasantly surprised if we saw, if we saw it used in that way. I mean, I don't know. I'm just, I have no idea if it would or it wouldn't, but we have seen people face charges for victim intimidation before in other, in other shape. We have, we have. I'd have to read more on, like, what they specifically did in those cases. though. Well, again, we're just talking about the liability. So the fact that she is now the

official designation means that there are certain laws that apply to Erica that prior to this did not. And if I had to ask you guys, how long do you guys think that this lasts? I mean, what's a, I mean, is it we talking about a year and a half? Are we talking about, you know, three months? Like, what's the prediction? I mean, if you really want to know, if it's a capital case, if he gets the death penalty, he could, this could be a 30-year thing. You've seen how often and they love to drag these things out. Even without that, it's a great cause of the left

to get people who have life in prison out on parole somehow, especially if it is life without parole. We're giving that promise all of the time and it doesn't pan out. You see these things. They love to commute sentences. Nasty, there are just people out there

who love criminals. They love letting criminals get out. They love letting people who've committed heinous crimes roam free in society again. So I feel rather unfortunately, I just can't truly imagine this being over, over for tragically many years. They'll find some way to perpetuate this case far beyond what it should be. Do we have any intel on how he's funding his defense?

I mean, does he come from any money? Like, are these public defenders? So it comes from a public pot of money. And so he's given a public pot of money that, was granted to him. This is also under-governed by Utah law. I could pull up in a second exactly about his legal team. But, yeah, it does come from a public pot of money.

And they did give him, because it's a capital case, they are then giving him access to a higher amount of funds they would than if it were a, you know, if there were just a misdemeanor case, a felony case, but because the capital murder case, they are giving him access to far more fun. Because, of course, this is why the state wants this. because they don't want, let's say he's convicted,

they don't want him to be able to come back around and appeal and say, oh, I had ineffective, you know, ineffective counsel or something like that. Got it. But yes, it is taxpayer funded, and we'll say it can be back. This Christmas, you've got to give the gift of food security to your friends and family with an amazing deal from our friends and my patron supply.

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you're also getting unique and meaningful Christmas gifts for your friends or family. And they're free. So head over to my patriot supply.com. com slash kirk and grab yours today this offer is only around for the holiday season just go to my patriot supply dot com slash k irk and join millions of americans who are preparing today at my patriot supply dot com slash kirk that is my patriot supply.com slash kirk here's something else i want to add by the way so his parents we were told on reporters who were in the courtroom including genie's nation that his parents did attend the trial as well as

one of his brothers and sounds like his mother was very emotional it sounded like he was trying while she was waiting for there was a portion of this that was held behind closed doors while they were sort of making the argument regarding the cameras. And Brian Netton mentioned that his mother was all, at one point they asked for the family to stay in the courtroom, but then the judge actually asked them to leave the courtroom during the trial phase, or during that argument phase, and said the mother was outside and a courtroom,

out of the courtroom, just crying. And look, I keep saying over and over, you know, for people who have been telling me that, oh, Tyler Robinson, and the plants, you know, this isn't, this isn't real. Well, it's sort of like, guys, his parents were the ones who turned him in. And if they thought their son was innocent, that it was falsely accused, you know, they have all the opportunity in the world to speak to media. The eyes the water on them today, not one of them walked up the media and said my son

was innocent. We have Oswald famously referred to himself as a patsy, and you just don't see anyone from the family coming out and saying that, that they believe he didn't do it. They believe he was innocent. It just hasn't happened. And it certainly didn't happen today, the opportunity to be so they did not. And look, we see new images of Tyler Robinson, these sick images of him. I've just found a new image, by the way.

I'm going to understand it as well. Just this sick image of him brinn. It's very well, very clear that he's brinning and, you know, caught in 4K, that he's brinning. that he's grinning right now i guess that's not that's not the best thing to say yeah there he he really he's sitting there grinning while charlie's family is going to go through christmas with about big dad he's sitting there grin at he's sitting there grin at can we not talk about how he looks like dado orc has nobody made that comparison yet oh you're right he does wow he does kind of like betto in that outfit was the first time i i i saw that first time i saw that uh jack you made

a good point i want to elaborate on it that ruling was interesting when they said, hey, we need to clear out, we're going to make some decisions about cameras, and we're going to have some debate on this. And I don't want the public in here. And they obviously, you know, the defense said, hey, we want to request the family can stay. And the judge did not go with them, right? The judge went with the prosecutors. But I find that to be very, very interesting because a lot of times you'll see judges start to go one direction. And if early on, they're going the direction of, hey, we're going to, you know, be with the defense that becomes a problem if you're obviously rooting for the prosecutors. And so I think some of

these early decisions can kind of show what type of temperament the judge is going to have. And for the judge to say that Tyler Robinson's family does not get special treatment. They are not allowed to stay in the courtroom that all members of the public have to leave. I think that's a big win. And I don't think we should we should glance over that. That was a big ruling from the judge today. And so one other piece for people to understand is that, is that the people are asking, will Erica testify? And so likely, I mean, it's certainly possible that anyone can call witnesses, but it's more likely that as a victim representative that she will be giving a statement not during the trial phase, but there's two phases to a death penalty trial. And a death penalty trial in those states, including the state of Utah, that the victim doesn't testify until, so there's a conviction. Then there's another phase, which is the conviction state that our first testimony brought in.

And that's when you hear what's the order called victim impact statement. And those victim impact statement are the ones that come in there. I'm told that we have a donation. Yeah, well, we have, we have Kaden again. He's a frequent donor. So thank you again, Kade. He says, hey, friends, hope you are. well today and thank you very much kate and we have a second one but it's a it's a lighter topic so

i would like i don't want to hit it until we're ready to move on to the next one because i don't want to taint this very serious topic with it but we are aware of your earlier one uh who was that from from b jordan we'll be reading off yours in a sec here but uh do we have anything else we want to hit on this uh on this i have one last one last one last question do we think that he testifies? Robinson? I mean, technically, we don't even know. He hasn't entered a plea yet, correct?

Not a formal plea, no. Yeah, he might just plead guilty for all we know. Yeah. He could. So as far as we know, yes, he easily could just plead guilty. And I'm looking at the chat, yeah, in the chat, just

most people that are just appalled the same way that I am to see him smiling, to see him grinning, laughing it up. Go ahead, man. Laugh it up. Go ahead. Keep laughing it up. Laugh it up as much as you want. Please continue to do so. Namarstan asked, can they have cameras in the courtroom or not? They have not ruled on that for a trial. He ruled that they could have cameras in the courtroom today for today's hearing, but we do not have a ruling on the overall trial.

We likely won't have that for many weeks. That is the cursed reality we live in. We all want to see this move more quickly. but that is the situation we have right now. If both of the sides... So the hearing, the hearing is until February 3rd. So we've got two months before we can get a next hearing on that. Just, yeah, it's... Once again, it's as stressful for us as it is for everyone else, I can assure you. Yeah, and Blake, I actually, when you said 30 years,

I kind of hit me in the gut, but you're right. I mean, this thing could be a very, very long process. I mean, it's truly horrible. I once read in the 70s, there was a serial killer in Houston, and several of them, in fact, it was a group operation. So one of them died. And the other went to prison for life. And due to some glorious quirk of the judicial system, that person is eligible for parole. And so they literally were a group that abducted children and murdered them. And every couple years, the parents of one of their last victims have to go. to the court to present their arguments for why the person who murdered their child should not be out on the streets again. And this will continue as long as they are alive. And I just think about what a tragedy that is for a person who, like, their entire life was a waste. They used it to destroy other people's lives and we preserve them for some reason. I don't understand it.

I don't understand why we moved away from justice as a principle that our state can wield. But that is what we have. And it leads to a lot of retramatization of people like those parents, like Erica Kurt, like a lot of people. Well, Blake, are you familiar with that case? And Cliff, you might know this to the Philadelphia of Mumia Abu Jamal. Fry Mumia. Now, kill me in. Yeah, so Mumia, this is a guy who, think about this, he's killed.

a police officer who shot a police officer in cold blood before i was born in 1980 we killed him in 1981 that he sentenced to death in 1982 and years and years and years go by 20 years go by he's still alive he's still on death row he's filing appeals filing appeals the widow of the police officer who is so young warring faulkner the wife of gaining Foxner, you know, widow of Jay Foxner, is, is begging over and over work for just justice to be done on this. And then eventually 30 years after the murder, because things have become so woke in the city of Philadelphia that in 2011, the prosecution simply agrees to change his sentence to life without parole. So he gets life without parole, he's in Genpop. And this is what

they can do there now. He became sort of a quasi-celebrity. You have we have like raging into the shame and all these people coming in for them. And so, like, to your point, this is a big problem when we wait so long to execute murderers that emotions fade, memories fade, people move on to other things, and different narratives can get in. And in this case, they waited so long that the case was actually taken away. The sentence was actually taken away. And now we just have life and prison.

And there's a shortage of justice. Like, people, I think there is a psychic feeling across America that they think there's a lack of justice for things that have gone wrong. You often hear that in reference to COVID, that lockdowns were obviously a catastrophic decision, a ton of people suffered a lot. And then nobody ever was really held accountable financially, criminally, socially even for what they did. Like, at a minimum, someone responsible for something that bad should feel a little ashamed to go outside. and that never happened. And I do feel that's one of the important arguments in favor of capital punishment. There should be a high-profile way, something that goes on semi-regularly if you're in a society with crimes that reminds you,

people who do grave works of evil will be ripped out of society like the cancers that they are. And I don't think it's a surprise that when you have a society afraid to execute the worst malice, factors. You have a society that is increasingly detached from any principle of right and wrong whatsoever. Look, I know there are a lot of choices when it comes to who you choose for your cell phone service. There are new ones popping up all the time. But the truth is there's only one that boldly stands in the gap for every American that believes that freedom is worth fighting for. And that is Patriot Mobile. For more than 12 years, Patriot Mobile has been on the front lines fighting for our god-given rights of freedom while also providing exceptional nationwide

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That's patriotmobile.com slash Charlie or call 972 Patriot and make the switch today. Yeah, and look, I mean, I spent a lot of time. I mean, Trump's first term, the first step act, right? A lot of people on the right, criminal justice reform, we were all about it. But here's the big difference. We were talking nonviolent. And this is where I think a lot of people on the left have kind of lost it, not just with defund the police,

but it becomes that any law on the books, you know, we need to have sympathy for those because the justice system is flawed. And it's just not true, right? Obviously, the justice system can be flawed, but this idea of like soft on crime across the board, it's kind of this vicious, like, they're just all in on that.

And to me, like you said, when you have these things that are very, very much not, what I would call nonviolent, these horrific crimes, I think it should be the opposite. Like you said, we should make an example of these people. And I took, look, I spent a lot of time

being against a death penalty, probably 10 years. And to be frank with you guys, this was probably the moment where I realized when something hit close to home with somebody that we knew, that, you know, it's easy to theorize about that and to say, well, you know, I don't trust the government to kill somebody.

But in certain circumstances, it is very justified. And obviously, I believe this is one of those. We got a question from a gibberish nation asks, can the feds go back and charge Robinson with causing Charlie to lose his federal rights by murder and thereby

seek the death penalty if it is not obtained through the state court? I suppose the most important question is do you guys know, is that a capital offense deprivation of civil rights in that matter? That would be an important question. Obviously, we have seen. You would have to charge him

with a form of terrorism, I believe, to be a capital offense. Yeah, that would be my guess. I'm sure that that has entered their mind as a way, yeah, terrorism. Maybe they could get some sort of federal murder charge. They're always creative with those if they cross, if they cross federal property to do it or something like that. I wouldn't be surprised if that's on the table,

but part of that is that's one of the things about it taking so long. Are you going to suddenly come in and charge him if this verdict has finally reached a year from now, a year and a half from now? that is something I'm not sure of. I'm sure they would make a show of it. But again, by the time that would be done, you might be in a new presidential administration. Might be a Democrat.

And let's be careful what we wish for. Obviously, we want justice for Charlie, but you don't want to get in the habit of the federal government coming in and finding some law or something that they can. I mean, what's John Stousel's book, three felonies a day, right? If the government wants to come after you, they can. So I do want justice here.

But let's just get the win here in Utah and not try to find a way the federal government can come in and try to. Yeah, the answer to the question is yes. Of course, if the feds wanted to do it, they could try to do it. It would be unprecedented, but they could try to do it. I don't think we want to be in the position where the federal government, God willing, it's not J.D. Vance after 28. I don't want them backdating things and coming after us for random acts that they, you know, deem as some sort of federal offense. No, but you can, I mean, you certainly can add that. Derek Chauvin got federal charges added to his state charges.

So, I mean, this wouldn't be the first time that there were two sets of cases. And I'm not saying it's prudence necessarily do so. But certainly just in a basic answer to the question, yes, the federal government can do that and certainly have the right to do that. All right. It looks like, it looks like I just want to say because they did donate and we always try to read those. I said I do it when we got changed topics, but the chat is super locked into this topic. So I think we're staying zeroed in on the Robinson saga. But I wanted to call this.

So be Jordan 24, 563, donated $20 and said, appreciate the show, guys. We appreciate you, Jordan. Hoping the Sharon Moore situation might come up this week. For those who don't know, the coach of Michigan football got caught, I believe, impregnating an undergraduate, not advised. That would be an amazing topic, but we have a more serious topic that is very close to our hearts.

That does deserve our full attention this week. but I agree it is a very fun story and again thank you for your support thank you for tuning in but yeah on this one yeah you're right turning point we have to stay focused for Charlie we have to watch this case

we uh anyone else someone's uh just a Chad 89 says Antifa being a terrorist organization could be enough for a federal charge I guess you would have to find you would have to be able to prove that he even considered himself acting on as an agent of Antifa so that would be something where if we have a very thorough look at

his discord messages any chat groups he was in you might be able to find that but if he's not if he never uses Antifa to describe himself if he's not in contact that could be tough it's always there are things that can bring you down so I don't I guess I would encourage us to view this trial as by far our best shot to get the accountability we want to. want for Robinson. And we would only consider alternatives if that's just not going to come to pass. That's my thought. Yeah. And also as an example, the Maggioni case, depending on where you take this, you know, you got to make sure you have a judge that actually believes not holding the law. So the region of Agioni was charged under federal terrorism. And the judge in that case,

this liberal judge actually threw it out. So we threw out the terrorism charge because he said that, well, this isn't terrorism that when Mandjani murdered the healthcare CEO and the judge, as a political, said that it wasn't terrorism because it was only murdering one person and that his actions were intended to cause harm or intimidation to others. Despite the fact that he, just like Tyler Robinson, wrote political slogan on his bullet, had a manifesto, had all the intent in the world to spark what he called justice. for, you know, there's probably issues in the health care system, inequality in the health care system.

And yet the judge said, and the judge actually imparted his ruling in that because in the New York, this is not even a state judge. So I may have to double attack myself. But I remember it was a terrorism charge, and that's why I'm talking about it. But he said that the rape statute was written was that it affected harm to civilians. And under the statute, he ruled that health care workers don't count

as a civilian because that only means the public at large. It was the most twisted ruling and the most twisted reading of the statute that I've ever seen. And I'm like, this guy must obviously be a liberal to say that, oh, well, if you work for a healthcare company, you're not a civilian. It's like, yeah, that's exactly how Allmarked was saying. Yeah, at one point I'll make, I mean, you know, I've seen a lot of these different cases where the law can say, you know, the sky is blue.

But if a judge says, hey, you know, today it's red. it's like it really once again there are flaws in the justice system and some of these judges and some of the rulings it can be as clear as day to all of us and you know i mean these judges are elected right or they're appointed by somebody that we elected and that system's supposed to work but sometimes it's just broken and it stinks and you got to power through it and so uh i've been asked say what what is the psychology of a robin simp and i'll let you guys this so do you guys know So a Robin Simper, so a Robin Simper is who, and not just ask questions about the public narrative. You want to ask questions, do you want to ask questions about evidence, ask question about the FBI?

Fine, go ahead, First Amendment right. But there are people that are full on Tyler Robin Simper who were just like, this guy didn't do it. I don't believe the parents. I don't believe any of it. You know, he needs to get off. We need to work to get him off. And that makes you a Robin Simper. This is Lane Schoenberger, Chief Investment Officer and founding partner of Y Refi.

It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turning Point and for Charlie to endorse us. His endorsement means the world to us, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turning Point for years to come. Now, hear Charlie, in his own words, tell you about Y-R-R-R-R-E-F-Y-F-I. I'm going to tell you guys about Y-R-R-E-F-Y.com. Y-R-R-E-F-Y-FI is incredible. Private Student Loan debt in America total is about $300 billion. Why-Refi is refinancing, distress, or defaulted private student loans. You can finally take control of your student loan situation with a plan that works for your monthly budget.

Go to why refi.com. That is why refi.com. Do you have a co-barrower? Why refi can get them released from the loan. You're going to skip a payment up to 12 times without penalty. It may not be available in all 50 states. Go to why refi.com. That is y-r-refy.com. Let's face it, if you have distress or default to student loans, it can be overwhelming. Because of private student loan debt, so many people feel stuck, go to why refi.com. That is Y-R-E-F-Y-F-E-F-E-E-F-E. Y.com. Private student loan debt relief, Y, refi.com. And are you guys familiar with the term pro burgers? Have you guys ever heard this? Pro burgers? Pro burgers? I only eat amateur burgers, Jack. Yeah, yeah. So have you, but do you guys remember Brian Coburger as in the murderer up in Idaho of those sorority girls?

Oh, oh, the guy who looks like Richard Hanani across with Josh Hawley? And it kind of looked a little bit like, like Tyler Robinson, because he doesn't lie. So the pro-Bergers are a subset of the true crime community where they completely believe that Brian Co-Berger is innocent, that he was set up, that someone else did that, and they have formed, it's kind of a mini cult. They have this parasocial relationship with a variety of people who believe the Pro Burger cult, and it's basically like a fandom cult. of him. They have shrines. They have song. They have like edits of Brian Coburger. Obviously, you see this a lot with Ruligi Magioni, who are raiding. And you see, you even see people taking trips to go and visit the places associated with Brian Coeberger because they believe so strongly in his, in his innocent. But it's beyond just, you know, oh, I think this guy didn't do it. It's literally

become their identity because I don't know if it's like you don't have meaning at home or you're disconnected and disassociated with life. It is female coded to say, it's just true. It's very female coded where, yeah, they will

completely allow this to subsume their identity. Well, what's funny is I have to imagine really deep down, they would not want him to be innocent because clearly their actual thought is that he did do it. They just, this is weird say they think it's hot i guess like he's this dark killer person like i don't think they

would find this guy terribly interesting if he wasn't a murder hybristophilia what's that one hypophilia so hypophilia is a hybrista i'm sorry if my my audio is being messed up again so hybristophilia is a parapheria it's a type of sexual attraction for people who commit serious crimes you saw this with the Columbine shooters. You see this with a variety of fillers. He saw this with the Boston bombers. There was Garganoia, where people

who are, I believe it was oh gosh, there are Ted Bundy got married while he was still in jail and you know, they believe that they are super attracted sexually to bad boys, criminals, deviant and they want those typical risky

you know, risky relationships and so they're attracted to criminals. So yeah, Ted Bundy. I wouldn't surprise me if there were people who were attracted to Jeffrey Dahmer. It's absolutely a certain parapheria that's out there and it's this desire for intense, risky relationship. Yeah. Do Jeffrey Dahmer get letters in jail just saying like, please eat me, Jeffrey, please? Yeah, and this is why you see. I mean, a lot of the true crime documentaries, it's kind of wild to me how many of these serial killers have so many lovers, right, that they're exchanging letters with. I'm going to directly

comes from like you said that that weird desire uh to be with the bad boys if you will you even get funnier version funny sub versions of that like um didn't martin schrelli had that journalist fall in love with him while he was in jail and i think she did she leave her she like left her boyfriend or even left her husband over it and this was a purely non-physical relationship he was in prison the whole time and then he got out and i think they they quite promptly broke up once he was out of prison. Weird. Oh, yeah. It's a Martin Strelly, exactly. But Martin Schrelly did nothing wrong, so. Jack's part of the cult. I love it.

No, Martin Strelly was not a murderer. Martin Schrelly was a farmer bro. Oh, okay. Got it. Got it. Yeah, it's a little like his crime. It felt odd. I just felt like it wasn't spectacular enough to get a woman swooning for you over it. But she was really into it. And then he, man, I haven't heard about that guy since he kind of tried to get Baron Trump into that crypto thing but i guess that's getting a little off topic he's he's on twitter i see i see him there every once in a while he does like spaces and stuff and guys just do me favor throw that picture of title robinson up again from the court today please do that as much as it pain with all of us just do it because i i there is something i want to say when we look this picture

this is not the behavior of a patsy guys this is not the behavior this is not the way it was would look. This is not the way that a person would comport themselves if they were thinking, oh, I was set up. Oh, I shouldn't be here. Oh, you got to, you got to get me out. I was falsely accused. This guy doesn't look upset at all. I didn't see in a single one of these images or videos, any image of him actually looking upset. It's not there. He's happy. He's grinning. He's smug. He's smug about what he did. And look, you know, say what you want about me. I don't really care. Honestly, I've never cared. People probably all sorts of things. but this guy this guy's sitting there looking smug he's sitting there looking smug it's simple as that

the other thing that bothers me is the longer that this case goes it's just going to continuously be more attention i mean obviously i want attention to honor charlie but it's just going to be more fodder for all the trolls right every time that this is live every time it's out there every time there's something new and this grin obviously you know the first time we're seeing him it should make us all burn inside and i'm sure the people that you know praise him and the people that celebrated the death of charles you know they love seeing that right this gives them something else to share something else to celebrate and they're just pieces of garbage i'm going to continue to say that absolute and utter pieces of garbage um plague can you say you had something yeah well we have uh we have a good uh we have a nice

message we have uh this one from uh kairie mccallan another i see her in the chat all the time kairi donated to 10 and says please give us who love charlie his family the charlie kirk show team and all the teams of Turning Point, some practical ways that we can share the arrows, as Ali Stuckey says, that are being directed at all of you. You know, I think the best way is know the details of this case. Read the indictment.

Charging documents are online. The evidence against him is online. And you can also go read, search a guy named Turkey Tom. There's a video you can look up called, I believe it is the man who killed Charlie Kirk Obviously he's presumed innocent But that is the title of the video Let me make sure I have that exactly right

Okay, it is titled The Man Who Killed Charlie Kirk And there's also a, if you prefer reading There's a substack post that you can find by the same person And what it gets into is it gets into the evidence About his personal life, his relationship with his boyfriend The evidence, you know, the stuff people have said is weird such as him calling his boyfriend my love in their messages, the guy saying that is, in fact, how they talk to each other.

If you guys want to help share the arrows, learn those facts because the most common thing you see is you see the Robin Simps, as they're calling them, who are going to just say, oh, he's a patsy, oh, there's no evidence for this, oh, I think it's all fake. In truth, I think they're saying this because this is a drawn-out process and not enough of it is on TV, basically,

for them to feel like it's real, but it is real. The evidence in this case, we believe, is quite strong. If we thought it was fake, if we thought they had the wrong guy, we would obviously be freaking out because we care deeply that the correct person be brought to justice for this.

So the best way you can share those arrows is know those facts. So if it comes up in passing, you're able to say, oh, man, did you hear about this? Did you hear about the stuff that they were into? Did you hear about this nesting? Because it really is a bizarre case. You could make a fascinating.

There will be fascinating true crime documentaries about all of this one day because it is lurid. It is incredibly upsetting to see the lives that these people were leading and to think that this allowed a person to go and to just go and randomly strike down a person as great as Charlie. So maybe you have your own thoughts, Cliff, but that's my thought on how to share the load. Yeah, I mean, of course, referring to, you know, the public perception when it's happening in the trial, but I also want to say what would Charlie want us to do to share the arrows is to go do the work, right? Obviously, I'm not always going to pitch that we've got to be out chasing ballots,

but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't. Get out there, you know, get involved, find a way to advance our cause when it comes to the political scene, when it comes to the ideology of trying to reach new people. That's the way to share it. Right. I'm not saying you have to ignore the trial. Obviously, we're all going to follow along. We're rooting for justice for Charlie. But at the same time, we have to double down. We have to go out there. Turning point has to survive. Turning point has to thrive in terms of not just campus, but all the turning point action, all the efforts, the things that we're doing. That's what this is all about. And when I think about what Charlie would be telling me right now, it would be, yes, honor him, follow the trial. But at the end of the day, we cannot get distracted. And what I mean by that is not that we're going to not give him the homage that he deserves, but he would want us to do the work. And so for all of you out there that have done certain things, whether it was 2024 or before,

2026 is coming up. And that's a huge opportunity for us to get involved and to truly make a difference when it comes to figuring out ways to do the work as Charlie would want us to do. Exactly. Exactly. Like in the end, a lot of the nastiest stuff that's said, it's said because it wants to it wants to hurt the mission it's people people on the left who promoted oh actually a maga guy did this they say that for ideologically motivated reasons and people from other aspects do it they they want to ultimately for whatever thing is going through their head they want to tear down

the things that charlie fought for the things that charlie died for and so along with what i suggested cliff is absolutely right do the work you want to be engaged if you're in indiana we've been talking about that. They just had that vote on their redistricting map. And it failed. It failed not because of Democrats. It failed because of Republicans. And so we've been saying turning point action will be taking action on that.

If you're in that state, that is an easy way to get involved with something right now that is relevant. But I know other people are saying they want to find out other facts. Some people mentioned Paramount Tactical. I was just looking at their videos the other day. They have great videos just talking about the details of the case, how we can know what happened or why some things people are saying about the bullet, for example. There's been a lot of claims, oh, this bullet could not possibly have been what killed Charlie. And there's some great Paramount Tacticals one.

There's other gun experts who've dived into that. And believe me, you'll hear more, you'll hear more from us on that in just a matter of a few days. But we have, I think, one more message here, and then we'll close it out, because we have this hard out here. E.B. Dim the 9th. Ebdim the ninth. I'll go with that. Ebdim the ninth. Be blessed in the Lord, brother, Blake, and crew. Thank you so much for that.

Thank you to everyone who tuned in for this. And we'll see you next week. Amfest, I believe we're doing thought crime on stage at Amfest next week. We encourage you to tune into that and tune in to every other part of Amfest. Until then, and until always, keep committing thought crime. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.