The Charlie Kirk Show - THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 125 — Red Button or Blue Button? MJ The Innocent? Shooter Selfies?

Episode Date: May 2, 2026

The Thoughtcrime team takes on the pressing questions of the moment, like:   -Which button should you press, red or blue? -Was Michael Jackson really innocent all along, even if he was a big weirdo? -Why did the WHCD shooter take a lame selfie before his failed attack?   Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!    Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You've got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a turning point USA college chapter. Go start a turning point you would say high school chapter.

Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life and I encourage you to do the same. Here I am. Lord, use me. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go.

Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with noble gold investments at noble goldinvestments.com. That is noble gold investments.com. Ladies and gentlemen, Thoughtcrime Thursday is upon us. They tried to shut it down. They tried to cancel thought crime Thursday. They tried to do everything they could, but they couldn't stop it because even without songs, even without presents,

Thought Crime Thursday always comes. I was going for a Grinch thing. I don't know why I did that, but I just did that. Let's see who we have here because I was like, where is Jack going with this? How the Grinch stole thought crime?

How the Grinch stole thought crime. That'll be our Christmas special. You're a Normie, Mr. Grinch. This is no Normie's allowed. It totally works. You're a man of boring thoughts. No, it's like, establishment thoughts.

day, the Grinch's thought crimes grew five sizes. Okay. Are we already getting into the JP Morgan story? No, no, no. No, we have a way more important topic at what we were talking just before we started,

which is we were talking about probably, I think this is like the most impactful video of the 1990s, possibly the most impactful cultural artifact of the post-World War II era, post-World War II era, which is the

Crossfire advertisement from the 90s. So, wait, hold on. This is how we got here. The studio goes, can we get a little cross talk with Jack? Because Jack's remote. And I was like, for some reason it made me think of Crossfire the show with Tucker on CNN back in the day. Who else was on that show? I can't remember because I was like eight when that was on there. Then you guys didn't even care about that reference.

You were just like started singing a jingle to Crossfire. Yeah, because it was amazing. It was super important. Right. Yeah, you agree with me on this, right, Tyler? You remember the crossfire out. Yeah, we immediately sang it together. No, it was literally harmony in here.

They were trying to harmonize. Crossfire. You'll get caught up in the crossfire. I love that thing. It was up in october octave. Crossfire. It was on every episode of Double Dare, I think. Oh, is that where it's from?

No, no, it was an air in this time. It was on Nickelodeon. It was a kid's, you know. No, all the kids. It was a game or a show? No, it was a game. You don't know Crossfire? I don't think so.

I mean, if they pull up the video, maybe I do. Pulling Andrew's Gen Y card. Did you, did you not watch Nickelodeon endlessly like we did in the 90s? What is it? Crossfire. Nickelodeon was all I watched. Andrew was raised by. Nickelodeon raised me.

I bet I know it. I just am forgetting. Andrew was raised by a wild pack of Chihuahuas actually and they never let him watch TV. So is it a board game? Yeah. No, it's not quite a board game. It's like a hungry, hungry hippos type game. I mean, it's like similar like more game.

Oh, wait. Is it have those little bebies and Bradley? Is it like little bebies? Yeah, we got to. Do we have this ready to go yet? Do we have this ready yet? They don't have it ready yet. It's like the brutal call from Kylie when she goes, it's not loaded yet.

Like I always did that turn during the live show. I said that at least 55 seconds ago. I know. I know poor, poor girl. She's, we give her a lot of like, uh, last minute demands. And so sometimes I make the call for the video and I hear that in our ear. You don't hear it on the other side, but it's not loaded yet. Yeah, well, maybe we'll get to it.

She's very thorough about letting us know when something is loaded. Yeah, you know, well, we can, we don't need to fix it on it. But the point is, Crossfire was important. It was extremely culturally impactful. It fit into the important millennials zeitgeist, which is you'd watch an ad. It would have an amazing song. It would make it look like the coolest thing ever. and then you'd actually get it for Christmas

and you play with it for like five minutes and go, it's just kind of lame. And then you became a jaded millennial who voted for Obama. Well, yes. That's true. Oh, she said it's loaded. Let's do it. Play the clip.

Oh, no. No sound. It's all right. I'm watching. There's the 90s. It's not about the imagery. White kids in a commercial. I don't see it.

Cross fire. Cross fire. Cross fire. Cross fire. And then they like explodes. Yeah. No. By the way,

at the end, the kid spins out. Watch. Yeah. The game was awful. Like, I actually got one at one point. It was so bad.

The what? The board. The board was bad. No, the actual, if you play the commercial, it was, it's the greatest,

it's obviously the greatest commercial of any game for all time. But the actual game, was awful. There's no one who still plays it. There's no, um, like, I thought this was the most important cultural artifact of the 90s ever. Wait, I just Google, wait, I just Googled. Wait, I just Googled. Jack's right. I googled. Greatest commercial for any board game of all time. The 1989 Crossfire commercial is widely considered the greatest, memorable board game advertisement, board game advertisement featuring high energy rock music, laser shooting gameplay, and iconic

streamline tagging, you'll get caught up in the crossfire. Speaking of Crossfire, Jack. So this, wait, so this isn't nothing. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa. Whoa. That is a, dude. That is quite the second.

Wait, wait, wait. You want to hear the other four? Battleship. Dream phone, which also was a big deal, the dream phone. And pizza party. I just, I decided to go bigger. And I asked, I asked Google just greatest toy ad of all time. and they listed several options,

but they actually had Crossfire as one of the five, along with the original Slinky ad. And the board game Mousetrap, actually. Mousetrap was a big deal. Yes. But I can't. Oh, yeah, I remember. And we're getting some of the younger people in the chat

are not familiar with Crossfire. And all I have to say to them, I was not familiar with Crossfire. All I'm going to say is, we're going to have some accountability for this. And Russ, you have to say, on air, I am uncool and lame because I don't know what Crossfire was. You know, Mousetrap was big.

You know what? Dream phone was big. Oh, the Mousetrapp is good. We're going to have to take away your rights for us. We're going to take them away. Mousetrap is a D was a decent game. Splat? Yeah.

Splat. I've never heard of that one. Shutes and ladders. Do you guys remember? Shoots and ladders did not have any cool hours. I didn't have any cool action. But it wasn't an ad. It was just a cool game.

Yeah. Crossfire is a testament to America's like greatest cultural export, which is insane commercials for things that are of middling quality. And we should be proud of that. Andrew, Andrew, Andrew. So, Andrew, you mentioned something about Crossfire? Yes. Yes, I did. Yes.

Well, I mean, you want me to. Is this, is this a segue to me? Yeah, I was trying to segue. This is literally the segue. Okay. They talked over your segue, but I'm supposed to pick up what you put down. You're throwing me the ball. I'm picking it up and I'm running with it.

So, yeah. If Andrew had watched the ad, he would be like, his brain would have received. received additional neurons from its power, and he would have caught the segue way more. I would have, yes. But, you know, it's probably that I'm just shaking up. I'm shaking up still. I would be shaken up if I learned that I missed the coolest ad ever when I was a kid. So White House Correspondents Dinner, we should address it.

Let's get it. Let's, we gotta do the thing. So there's many things that we can talk about. We've talked about on the daily show. But in general terms, yes, I was there. Jack was actually the second person to call me and get through. there was terrible service in the room. But my wife was actually the first person to get through, which was, I think, actually a God thing because I tried to call her, couldn't get through.

She ended up getting through to me. And I knew she was going to be worried about me. But we were all good. It was just a, it was a crazy experience because we got stuck under the tables. And I remember thinking the scariest part was don't make any abrupt moves because the Secret Service looked like very, very intense, like, which they should have. right but it felt like if you moved abruptly that they might have you know considered you a threat and taken a shot at you right i mean it was my first memory is i'm hearing glasses drop from the back of the room i look over and i see a chair flying through the air um so a secret service agent

had actually picked up a chair and thrown it and that was pretty uh terrifying actually then everybody starts diving under the the tables i'm sitting under there and all of a sudden it occurs to me, did I just, was I just present for the assassination of President Trump? You know, that was the part where, and you have to understand, in the room, nobody knew what the hell was going on. We had no idea. We had no idea because it was so cacophonous that there was, you were like, I obviously didn't hear what I was supposed to hear. And then I kind of think, I logged like maybe a thump thump in the back of the room. But I really didn't know anything. So as soon as the coast clears, and we all sit up and stand up, I saw Phil Wegman, who you've, you've met Phil right before Tyler.

Many times. And he's with the Wall Street Journal. I said, Phil, did they shoot the president? And he said, I don't think so. I saw them drag him off the stage. I did not witness J.D. Vance going off the stage. So I was like, well, do you know if they dragged him off and he was injured or if he was shot or what? And he's like, I don't believe he was shot, but I could be wrong.

So for like 20 minutes, we're all. in the ballroom trying to figure it out. And I think, Jack, this is what we talked about before the show. What was the wildest part, actually? What a weird place. It's just, I'm standing up there and all of a sudden, within a moment, this is a room full of journalists,

journalists, on air TV personalities. They all start doing selfies. I have this picture in my mind of And like selfie videos. It was 2,000 people in this room, 2200. I'm not kidding when I say, at least a third of them within,

like as soon as everybody kind of started rising their feet, at least a third of them were going like this, taking selfie videos of what just happened. And there was no service in that dang room. I don't know, like maybe something had... Yeah, no, I was getting texts from people who were in the room and they only were arriving a half hour plus later. Yeah, I don't know if it was signal jammers or...

No, I think it's just it's underground. It's a bad, yeah. Well, I do think... No, actually, in all seriousness, that when there is something like that, signal jammers will sometimes be employed. It's an EOD strategy for basically that if there's any remote control devices, remote controlled IEDs, RCIEDs, that they would, you know, they would block signals just in case, you know, out of abundance of caution. If there were something that they would block signals to prevent it from sending like a trigger signal or something.

Yeah. But it is also an underground ballroom. Yeah, like I think it could be like both things are true. In addition to all the obvious. Yeah, it could be like both things are true. But anyways, the point is, I just standard procedure. I just remember, like, so there was somebody on the team that was like, you should do a selfie. That was literally what it took for my team to, like, tell me I should do a selfie from the room.

Because it didn't occur to me, even as I was watching everybody. All right, all right. So now, wait, guys, Andrew just got his Gen Y card back. No, so check this out. So I look up. No, but I look up and freaking Brian Stelphill. had jumped up onto the stage. Like,

legit, like, I didn't know he could jump. He's a... Wow, I don't know how he got up. Maybe there was stairs on the side. I'm looking, Brian Stelter's on the freaking deus.

There's a ladder. Also, the real Brian Stelter was executed in Guantanamo Bay. Well, of course. That was real raw. That's core real raw news lore. The,

the lookalike, the real raw news. I don't know if our audience, is our audience fully, so we, but this is, this is an interesting thing, though,

is that, because I saw like, the selfie discourse actually kind of became like a, you know, a topic trending online. And people were saying, like, hey, note to younger journalists. If you're in a room where something like this happens, you're supposed to point your phone at the thing that's happening, not at yourself, which I admit, I found that to be pretty. It was interesting. I saw, yeah, I mean, listen, there was like some journals that weren't doing it. Like, I think I saw Nora O'Donnell. or whatever. I saw Margaret Brennan, right? I saw that they just looked very, very upset and distraught.

Well, you know, though, I actually, like, I would actually kind of push back on some of the people who were like, like hypercritical of the younger folks who were doing the selfie videos because when you, you know, when you're on like TikTok and Instagram and, you know, even Twitter as well, X, that those videos are very relatable when, you know, with the younger audience. And those are the type of videos that they tend to look for for authenticity. And they look for that for a direct connection with the person. So I'm not saying, you know, obviously like if there's something going on, you do want that footage.

But I did see, I do think there's like a generational gap here where it's like, no, they do want the selfie videos because they feel it has. more authenticity than you know you just like being behind a camera in a studio with the Chiron and like er-da-dur-da-d-d-d-der this is what happened like

they feel like it's more real listen it was we could have what's wild and I think people understand this in the room we did not know what happened we had no idea

so you got all these journalists that are like all they do is like watch the news all day they're all in the dark which is funny because the flipside watching it at a distance which I was

it's extremely obvious nothing happened because the camera is actually on Trump when it happens. And then they whisked Vance right away. They take a little while to get Trump out. That's the thing I noticed too. They take a little bit to walk him out. There was that one dude, though, they went and stood right in front.

But it was so easy for you to rewind it and see like, okay. So we found out at a distance pretty quickly. Yeah. I actually, the very first thing that I saw was just a clip of them whisking Trump out. Like someone like came over at this place I was at called my house. and was like, have you seen this? And I thought, just initially, I thought like maybe something had happened to the president, the way that they all swarmed around him, because that's all I saw.

So that was the other thing. He like went down. And so people like, were there were like steps or something, I think. I don't know. And then like I thought they like pushed him down. I don't know if he tripped or. I thought they were like trying to get him down low. I also heard of theory.

Oh, is that what it was? I thought, I thought they were trying to like. like push him down, like get him down because they weren't sure like that the room. Well, that's easy to bother. Yeah. Yeah. The war in Iran is having a devastating effect on the people living there locally. What most people don't realize is it's affecting everyone on the global scale as well, even if we aren't there physically. Every time a missile is launched or a bomb goes off, tiny microplastic particles are being spread into our atmosphere, leaching into our soil and water.

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They do not authorize resellers. So again, brightcore.com slash Charlie for 25% off or call them to get 50% off at 888-317-9258. All I know is it, but there is another selfie angle to this, Jack. If you could throw up image one. This is Cole Thomas Allen. He's taking a picture in the mirror. Man. Just moments before.

Apparently this was within 30 minutes of his attack. Dressed all in black with a red tie. He's got a knife in his belt. He's got a gun. Looks like strapped underneath his arm. And he had a shotgun, right? Where's a shotgun in this? I don't think you can see.

a shotgun in this picture or maybe it's behind him. Can we zoom it on his face? He's got like a DreamWorks face if you guys are familiar with that. He's doing the office, right? Who's that character from the office? Is it Jim? It feels more like it feels... Yeah, Jim's the office. I need to see his face guys.

The face, not the, not the weapons, the face. The weapons, there's the weapons. I just want his big, his big low-resolution face glaring right at me. That was actually helpful. I want to go back to those in a second. We'll get there in a second. No, we will. We will. Oh my gosh. He's got, that's totally DreamWorks face there. It's just because he's like half black, half white.

He's kind of doing it again. He's got his, he doesn't have an even smile. He's doing that like, oh. He looks and like every DreamWorks character has that. Shrek, mega mind. Look at all the Dreamworks posters. For me, I go, I go to Jim from the office that it's just that like, you know, and JD Vance kind of did a similar, you know, smug with Margaret. For the camera when he was on at the debate. Oh, that's now like, you're right. Yeah, I thought he looked like, I think this guy looks like somebody that everybody's seen before. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's the mixed race thing.

To the DreamWorks thing, it's like every character on any, like, animated thing is like always ethnically like ambiguous. There's like a few white, white kids and then everybody else is kind of like ambiguous. You definitely, the reason I say Dreamers face, they always have that smirk. It's like it's a way of showing that you're not, you're not one of those basic, just normal smilers. You've got, you've got punk energy. You've got an edge to it. all the knives this guy had. And DreamWorks will always do that to show they weren't just a Pixar movie. Okay. That's the shotgun down there with the handguns.

Yeah, it's a pistol grip. So he had it slung over his shoulder maybe in that image. Remember somebody who was saying this to me at one time. I can't remember what incident. I don't think it's over his shoulder. I don't know. I can't remember what incident was. I just don't see it. But people, people were saying to me, when people go in and do stuff like this, part of like their whole like, you know, anti-heaval. hero arc that they believe that they're like part of is like that process of like getting booked and all that stuff so like they're like at peak joy in those moments where like you've seen that a lot happen where it's like a lot of them have like sometimes you see like people look like they're like they're like have screws loose but some people like this guy this guy this guy was

not a quack in that sense no no similar to similar to uh the that what to Luigi. Right, right. Luis, you know what that's called, though? You know what that's called? That's main character syndrome. Yeah.

That's main character syndrome. Like they all, it's the narcissism of it. Yeah, they all think that they're like the hero of a movie. And you see this, you see this with like a lot of redditors.

You see this with a lot of like people in, in that lane of, you know, lane of country where it's just this constant, like, it's like they're performing for someone. Like, like someone.

Someone's watching them. So I guess he took this selfie and we don't know. I think I read the affidavit. I don't know if he texted this selfie to anyone, which is really interesting to me. So it's like, did he take this selfie knowing that the police would find it and then show it later? Like who's the audience for this anyway? Yeah. I don't know, man.

Maybe he just knew he was documented history. He was like, this is going to be the guy that killed a bunch of cabinet members and should probably be like. Is his tie tucked into his belt? Yeah. like I don't know like a little well planned who just runs straight into well so this this

brought up an interesting thing and so I just tweeted about this I want to know Angelo thinks this is probably not a good idea so I and I trust Angela's wisdom on this stuff but you're going to ignore it anyway no no no he's saying it's not a good idea so I shouldn't push no he I don't think

I don't know I don't think he minds if I bring it up the but somebody post posted an AI image of the new ballroom. So there was two things that happened. So then a bunch of people online started saying, this is a good reason for the ballroom. And then, because, you know, for security reasons. 100%.

And then somebody posted this, the Charlie Kirk ballroom that Trump's, that Trump's developing. And I was like, this is a great idea because you have the Brady briefing room that was, Brady was shot. Retweet. Retweet.

Yeah, Brady was shot at the, Hilton. So we got the Brady briefing room. How about the Kirk ballroom? And, you know, and then I think, you know, the question is, is that, like, well, Trump's probably going to name it after himself. So maybe we're giving a lot of things named after himself. We're giving people, like, a bad choice because the people that want them named Trump or Kirk, they both like each other. So you're giving them, like, an impossible.

I mean, I just, I think it's just straightforward. Andrew, Andrew, Faz is, Fazz is denying this. Faz is saying that you are fake news. I'm saying that he ever said it was a bad idea. Oh, it's a positive paradox. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so to be fair to what Fahz said, he said, if you're loyal to Charlie, is it cool, Faz if I read this? I'm just making sure.

I want to make sure I get you right. The positive paradox. So if you're loyal to Charlie, then you'd be de facto loyal to Trump. And if you're loyal to Trump, you're de facto loyal to Charlie. So it's one of those questions where any answer will get you. Oh, you mean over, wait, are you just saying about the name? Yeah, yeah. The Charlie Kirk ballroom or the Trump ballroom?

I would I would Because I had tweeted this the other day I would I would just say I would go with Charles J. Kirk Yeah I just think maybe a little more official Charles J. Kirk

as opposed to Charlie I know we all know Ms. Charlie I know that that's I'm into it You know it's it You know obviously What he went by But I would just say Charles J

because it's just that It just gives it that Little extra You know It's like Donald J. Trump Yeah Charles James Kirk Donald J. Trump, Charles J. Kirk.

And one thing to serve as love is to give you your whole legal name. Well, that's an official thing within government. What is the chat thing? What is the chat thing? That's the identifier. Yeah, we should have the chat, actually. I think, frankly, another good reason to name it after Charlie is it's possible due to various legal things. It might not be done by the time that this administration is out.

And I think if you just pre-announce, this is named after Charles Kirk, thank you. It's a lot harder for baddies to undo it. and we don't, then we don't end up with the Amanda Gorman ballroom or something. And by the way, Charlie, that's a good point. Charning Point was actually one of the first to host, like, one of the main galaas at Maralago, which has become a thing. Like, that's kind of a number. And let's be, let's be real.

Like this ballroom is like a, like a basically a ode to Mara Lago at the White House. Oh, Dylan, Dylan in the chat pointed out, we have the Donald J. Trump International Airport, work because isn't that what they name? Palm Beach. And Jibberish. And then and then here's here's Kyrie McAllen saying Jack's keeping the formality. So Charles J.

Kirk, Donald J. Trump, you know, the ballroom. Dillon. Also, I'll just know. The other point I would make is just real quick, if you want to, because they're, they're talking about the whole point of this, Andrew, I don't know if you said,

is that like there was this like conspiracy theory that we were all talking about the ballroom. because that like someone had like told us to tweet about it or something. It was a group chat and led to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. No. We were right there with with, it was actually. Just so ridiculous. Like you read some of this stuff. Like yeah, we're all we're all logged in. When you couldn't even have access to like, you know, Wi-Fi, like we're all logged in.

It's like no men can actually just think independently. That's how it works. But what do you call it? If you want it to, if you want to keep the focus on security, and if you want to keep the focus on political violence, then what's better way? Free speech, First Amendment. Also, it's just naming it after Charlie really, I mean, it's so multi-layered. It's just so multi-layered.

Also, frankly, they already have renamed the Kennedy Center to be the Trump Kennedy Center, which is another big events venue. And so I don't think he needs two events venue. He's named after him. And by the way, to your point, if you've named it the Charlie, Charles James Kirk Ballroom, like, you're right. I dare the left to try and take his name off that. I mean, they still might.

We've got, we are a governor here, vetoing Charles Kirk's highways, but. Well, we did just get a roadway in, uh, was it Westminster? I want, I want the loop. I want the loop. Well, the Biggs gets into office. I bet we could get it. We better. What do you think?

No, is it. The loop? it will happen immediately. The 202? Yeah, everything that got. Wait, but is that Charles or Charlie? I'm not sure. I feel like a road, it's fine being Charlie.

A road is a more formal. Yeah. Yeah, it's a white house room. Well, so, and that's it's a James Brady press room, but again, it's the full name. We call it the Brady Press Room where that's what the press briefings happen when they're, you know, when Carolina, of course, is, I guess, off on maternity leave. and we're all praying for Caroline, of course. But when she's there, it's... And when she's not there, actually,

it's called the Brady Press Room, also because of political violence. So a lot of people want to call it the Charles J. Kirk Freedom Hall. You know, you want... You want a real thought crime... But then they just probably call it. You want a real thought crime.

I don't like too many things being just named the Freedom X. It's like a low effort name for things. There's a lot of freedom. And it's not like, what's a Freedom Hall? It's not a Freedom Hall. It's a Ballroom. and just maybe if you name it specifically after he said Charles J. Kirk, Freedom Hall, because that was on his shirt, I could be okay with it.

But I think someone even suggested Freedom Hall and then it honors both. I would push back on that Freedom Hall. Then it's just generic. You could call it the Liberty Hall. You could call it the Union Hall. I do like having Freedom Incorporated. Like maybe you use freedom for like a, you know, like the podium or the stage or like a different part of the like this is the freedom stage. or something like that as like an aspect of it.

And then you could have like a freedom shirt that's put up there. So there are ways to incorporate it that I think would be cool. I don't know if I put the name. It says, I would love for debate hall at a university to be named after trial. That's actually a really good idea. Like the Oxford debate, you know, I think something where you could create like a culture. Do we have any debate halls here in America? Yeah, that's such a British thing.

We'll develop one. Yeah. In Charlie's name. Like, we could probably get one of those done at, what, like Texas A&M or something, I don't know. What's the most like a Hillsdale one, of course, but what would be like the most prestigious universe you could see this actually happening at? Actually happening? Yeah. Probably the most respected, most conservative school.

That's a good question. Like Clemson? No, it's probably. like a really high state school. But if you created like an illustrious or Miami. Yeah. Oh, Georgetown. University of Miami. Yeah, why not Georgetown or like

George Washington? It would have to be. George Washington. I mean, first of all, a lot of these schools are pretty mercenary. So you get someone to pay for it. They'll probably put up whatever you want. Baylor, but. Baylor. Baylor's super lived though. They've been. I mean, but they're historically like, they're bored and things like that. Yeah. It's historically like pretty concerned. Texas A&M might be the most probably that. That's maybe one of the most

conservative private. It probably needs to be at a private school. So, you know, public schools are probably going to do it. The highest, the highest ranked academically public school in a red state where we could just force it on them would be UT Austin. And UT Austin is libs. So they would flip out about this. But it would be funny. Maybe that's the point. You force it down. And then also, but then people are going to be mad that I said UT Austin is more distinguished than A&M. So maybe we should just go with A&M. Otherwise, all of the A&M cultus will perform a blood eagle on me. And I don't want that to happen? While we're coming up at Hillsdale, yeah.

Hillsdale would probably be the best. I wasn't expecting this, I have to say, but death of recess, it stopped me in my tracks. This isn't about dodge balls and jungle gyms. It's about control. The modern American classroom didn't just happen. It was intentionally designed. It was standardized and centralized. And once you see who built it and who protects it, everything clicks.

billions of dollars are flowing through education bureaucracies every year. Test scores collapse and somehow the answer is always more money and less parental authority. The documentary breaks down how organizations like the NEA amassed enormous influence, how radical gender ideology entered classrooms and why something as basic as recess, movement, freedom, childhood, you know, had to go. That's not random. That's systemic. Institutions protect themselves.

They do not protect your kids. And that's why this documentary exists on Angel Studio streaming platform Angel Guild. Angel Guild is willing to distribute films that challenge powerful systems when legacy media won't touch them. So right now, go to angel.com slash Charlie and watch Death of Recess right now. If you're a parent or plan to be, you need to see this. That's angel.com slash Charlie and watch Death of Recess. but okay so we talked about this idea of a positive paradox question and there is one that is going wild over the internet and that is red button versus blue button um do you have you heard about this Tyler yeah I look okay

I looked at it Blake give us the what is the I did not hear about this until until you guys I have no idea what you're talking about all right so I have no idea what you're talking about all right so The buttons, you said? Yeah. All right, yeah. So this is a question that made the rounds. Let me throw up the image here so I can look at it here. Just got to find number nine on our stupid list of numbers, so I want to read it.

So this is a question that made the rounds. I don't think it originated with Mr. Beast, but he posted a very high visibility poll of it. It's a, it was even going big hit before then. But the question is, it's everyone on Earth is given secretly a command to push either a red button or a blue button. Red button blue button. And the stakes are, if more than 50%

of people push the blue button, everyone in the world survives. If less than 50% of people push the blue button, in other words, if more than half of people push red, only people who pressed red survive.

Presented with this choice, which button do you press? The logic The logical button to push is the red button because you survive no matter what. Yeah. So that's the logical button. The pro-social button. The pro-social button is blue.

So I actually, there's an argument to say that the blue button is, so if you're, because this is, this is an interesting thing. Only libs that believe in Agenda 21 stuff that want to eliminate half of society. because they think that the world is overpopulated, those people would all push red. So like super, super liens. It's interesting you're saying that because most people are saying a lot of people are giving the take it.

Their take is a lot of people are giving the take that blue is the lib button. I know. I think it's a horseshoe. I think a majority of libs will push it, but I think there's the most radical libs would push red. All right. So Caboos has this whole thing broken down because people get lost in the language.

This is actually what the truth is. You press the blue button, you might die. You push the red button. You definitely won't die. So if you... But this is wrong. This is wrong. No, no, no, no. This isn't... But this isn't getting to the heart of the question of.

The heart of the question is, what do you think most people will push? Like, like in your... And by the way, is this... Wait, is this world or country? World. The world is the... is the Mr. Beast hypo. This is a world. All right. And I want to hear this from chat, right? I need... We need this from the chat.

So it's also trying to... to understand what do you think most people in the world will push, which I think, I think blue wins if you did a globe, if somehow you did a global poll of this. I think blue wins. I think so. In Mr. Beast poll, Blue wins with about, it's about 56 to 58%. I want to check the chat here. Dylan says red. I saw someone post after this. X Y guy. Y, red, always read. Do all the blue people throw all the blue people through all the red people in jail afterwards. So, no, this, that was what I said

yesterday. Here's what happens. All the people, the blue people, the blue people will want everybody to hit blue, and then when they, when they survive, they take out their guns and they shoot all the people. Melchel says blue. Everyone

can survive. See? People like Melchelle are why I'm saying blue will win. I would push red, but I think blue would win. Zuzu's pedal says, if everyone survives, why wouldn't I survive? I think blue will win, but more to the point, I think like we actually should push blue because I think the world, what we're really voting for is do you want, are we, well, you're voting for your own survival. But then on top of that, do you want the world where all of the blue pushers have been purged and are dead or are still with us?

And I'll be frank, I think the world with all the blue button pushers taken out is a worse one. I think we do not, we have not improved the world if we take out people who are pro-social, but not very good at game theory. People who are pro-social and not very good at game theory are like the people who make sure that the lights remain on. They are the people who put the shopping cart back. They are the people who put the shopping cart back. But like every, but this is the point. I don't know if I agree with that. No, actually I'm pressing on this.

Shopping card is a perfect analog to this. Here's my, because there is no game to you. The people that don't put the shopping cart back. The shopping cart doesn't like. No, no, definitely not. No, leaving the shopping cart out like an animal is the red button. push. It's the doing the thing that only helps yourself and you're okay with hurting the rest of society because there's no, there's no harm to you because you'll never be harmed for not

putting the shopping cart back. You're just inflicting harm on others. I feel conflicted about this. You've got to do the pro-social thing. We've got to save the blue button pushers. Here's the point. The real, the real thing is is more interesting, which is what would be the outcome afterwards because all of the blue people, I agree with you. I think blues actually wins. It would survive, but they would come after the red pusher if it's not private though how do you know how do you know it's private there's no fraud in our elections truly private there's nothing truly private and so the bigger question is the better question is would you rather would that change your your vote if you if red loses and you get thrown in jail for the rest of your life slash or if red if red wins

all the blue people die says private right there well i don't think that's like, I don't know, I think at that point it just makes it easy for Blue to win because no one's going to want to vote for the situation of like, I might win but just go to prison. I think if that was the case, though, I think Red would win in the situation where

if you push Red and Mike go to Red. People wouldn't want to get thrown into it. This is only an interesting hypo. This is only an interesting hypo if like Red is the answer of 100% self-interested in terms of your own survival. but then blue is saving other people.

Would you only have Republicans left, though? Stop the Blues from doing it because the Reds would be better at fighting. Red would definitely be a majority Republicans. I was going to say. But he would also be radical. It would be radical dames too. I don't think it would be like the Rhodesian Bush War. What are you talking about?

I think like pushing the blue button is totally like an evangelical megachurch thing to do. Yes. Yes. Got to save people. How many women would be heard? Like, we got to have women. Like, guys, we don't want to... If red one, how many women would be left?

There'd be, like, five men to everyone. Yeah, do you want the future of, like, where everyone's fighting over, like, a tiny number of women who are also the, like, nasty red button pusher women? Or super progressive. You are, like, who aren't... Mollinger women, don't care about other people. Just so much of battle axes. Everyone just... Lesbians and men.

Yeah. Melchelle just wrote, I'm a nurse, and I put away other people's cards. I've put away other people's carts. Liz, Liz, Liz just wrote, I disagree, I'm totally pushing red, and I always pick up the shopping cart. So, you know, there's some, Liz, I think you've got to reconsider. I think you might, you might be dissociating. I would reconsider. When you think you're pushing away those copy cards, make sure you're not experiencing a psychotic episode and actually pulling the shopping carts out and creating chaos.

Wait a minute. No, I just, I just think of whatever, but no, I think. nation is saying this to Andrew. Andrew, there's a question in the chat as to whether or not Andrew is in fact the hated non-grocery cart returner. No, no, I put my grocery carts back and it's, I will tell you, it's always a pain because I have to make sure the kids stay in the darn car when I'm like trying to return the gross and I'm like buckle up. I want to see all the buckles. So you've never once, you've never once said, these kids are really annoying. I'm just going to ditch the cart. Nope. Never once? Nope. You're not.

Would you bet your life on it? I'm like, no joke. I literally put it back every time. Every time. Don't you look at me like this? When you got bad vibes? You don't know, but you know, no. Back every day?

I believe it. Caboose and I figure. You don't know that I do this, but you, what am I like? He's putting you under the microscope. I paid a guy to follow Andrew around for a month. I'm sure you did. There were a couple times. There were a couple times, but they were close.

Close calls, but he did remember. He did remember. A couple close calls, but he remembered. Liz claims all of my women friends are pushing red. This is making me worried about women. Like, women are being a little ice cold here. Wait, women are going red. Liz claims all the women she knows are red pushers.

So, you know. All the depressed people, too, would push red. And then we have Noah. The chaos people, the depressed people. If it was all, if the red one, you would be. you would end up with a mix of like very libertarian like pull yourself up by your own bootstraps republican conservative what jobs would really awful people what job but here's the point in the chat literally every nurse every firefighter every police officer for the most part would probably

be gone if red one yeah that's what i'm thinking no not every nurse and like it it appeals I don't know. And there are some nurses out there that are not, okay, that do not have a vast majority of them would be gone. Those nurses would be gone. A lot would be gone. A lot of them would be gone.

You know who it's not a vast majority? Wait, can I give you a hot take on nurses? I actually do have a hot take on this. That, that comes to me via, it was from still boneless. And he said, he said, you know why like the nurse ratchet type nurse,

exist. And he said, it's because, um, it's because those types of nurses, their personal lives are so disordered and chaotic and insane that they take it out on their patients. And that's why they're just like so incredibly like tyrannical and unfeeling when it comes to their actual patients. I mean, it's like projection. Probably for the teachers too that I've just mentioned, the really nasty teachers. Teachers like there. Yeah, there's a Venn diagram there, man. Yeah. I'm telling you, this is what's weird about this question is the overlap of good, like, amazing people that you would want to be your neighbor, self-sustaining, live off the grid, you know, wants to take care of their own community, their own family first and foremost, not the government. You'd get this weird overlap of really good people that are good for the country and really bad people. Isn't the whole idea of living off the grid that you're not really anyone's neighbor?

That's what I'm saying, but that doesn't make them a bad person. They just care about their family, their church, the things that's close to them. that's honestly I have no problem with those people but there is like a concept in Christianity where you're it's not like pro-government coerced socialism it's it's voluntary community right it's voluntary brothers taking care of brothers you know that kind of I just think I think without question though if red did win it would be predominantly men we'd have a huge lack of a problem that's the bigger problem that It would not be good.

That would cause war. That would cause war. Is go to the women and be, well, no, actually, though. But you look at the chat. Like, we already have the best women pressing red. So, you know. No. No.

He says, as a Christian, you would want to save everyone. Yeah. That's what I was, I argued that too. I was saying if you're going to, if you're going to argue we should push red, I think you are basically arguing the vast majority of Christian clergy should die. If you're saying we should let the blue button pushers die. X, Y guy has a really important point, though. Did Hillary give Russia a red or blue reset button?

Time to check. Every lawyer would be pressing red. It's usually a red button. Mean buttons are always red. But I wanted to bring up where he said, just give the part to shove and leave. Just give what a shove? Just give the car to shove until getting a car. I think what I would do is I think I would press both buttons at the exact same time and then just live with whatever happened.

Well, you won't live with whatever happened because if you pressed blue and one, you would die. I would live with whatever happened until I did. By the way, a fun thing with the button, so the button Hiller gave was read, and it said Peregrushka on it, which does not mean reset. It means overload. They mis-translated it.

No, I think Peruguska. Should have been a tonne-ta. I think Peregrushka means reset. Does it, though? Yeah. It has two meetings. You can, it can mean both things. Oh, that's terrible.

Google lied to me then. I have the same question, Kyrie. Kyrie says, why does it seem like 90% of the libtards are either in the medical or the educational field? I literally have the same thought at night. So again, that's what I'm telling you. It's this idea that they don't have control over their social lives, their individual lives. So they want to seek control over others. And we saw this during COVID.

We saw this with teachers. We saw this with nurses. We saw this with like Sortices and you know what he called flight attendants who would just put the mask on waitresses in some cases I'm not saying all of them I ain't saying all of them But I'm saying there were a whole lot of petty tyrants out there and that's exactly what it is That's what creates the petty tyrant all I know yeah all I know is if we if we if blue one They would kill all the reds but even it let's just assume let's just assume okay

blues are going to kill all the reds I don't think the blues are going to kill all the reds I don't think the blues This is what communists do. No. No, I know they probably wouldn't. But the point is... No, it's not a communist thing. If the blues could kill all the reds, they could do it now. Because we're in the reality with all the blue and red people right now.

It's a collectivist thing. Okay, so here's the thing. All I'm saying is, if you... Say the blues won and all the reds died. If that's the way this hypo worked, okay? I'm telling you what you would be left with is like a 50 state, like, Democrat majority. That's like, without question. So you might get some of the pro-socials, but this would be...

How many? Good question with the red blue. If red won, how many members of Congress would go? That's an interesting question. You should tweet that. All the members of Congress are pressing red. I'm going to do it. It would be like all, it would be like all.

Again, it would be the exact. That would actually be a great indicator of like how society is represented by a representative. I think what would happen is you would have a lot of the Dems gone. Definitely all the female dims, except for the psychopaths or the, so like AOCs the... She'd be gone. No, she would be around. You think she would pick red? Oh, yeah, for sure.

Fascinating. Talib would pick red. See, I would have picked them as blues. Because I said, like the agenda 21 get. Russ, what do you think? I don't know. I would, like I said in the office, I'd have picked red. you're a red pusher

if you want to abandoning them you're abandoning the pro-social the cart put the cart putbackers like I get I get the I get the Christian angle but I don't know

I what would Jesus do he probably wouldn't push red Just be honest God did not create a world where everybody gets saved but sin also so do you think you'll be saved if you push red

I mean I mean red is confessing Jesus is your Lord and Savior There doesn't say that on the button. It says, I want to save myself and let others die. I mean, I'm certainly picking the cross. I just, yeah, I mean, I just don't, I don't trust people. I don't think pressing red is unchristian.

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I think that's essentially what we're getting at here. I think it is. Picking red anti-Christian. I don't think. Is that against the values of Christ? No. No, I think it is.

I think, I think, I don't equate that. See, this is where we're missing each other. I think Jack hit the most fundamental level. It can be, but it isn't necessarily. It can be if you want the blue pushers to die, then yes, that would be unchristian. But it could also be that you just want you and your family to live and you think that blue is going to lose. And if that's the case, then you're doing so out of trying to save your family and your position in it. So again, it comes down to it's a tribal thing.

In a weird way, I think it matters. It comes down to what's in our heart. I think it matters the fact that it seems pretty clear that blue is ahead in polls, but not extremely decisively so. If it was, if it was like 30% are picking blue and it's like clear that red is going to win, I think it's more acceptable to pick red because you don't really have an obligation to commit suicide here. Well, but here's what I'd say. The more people understand this question, the bigger the share of the vote red's going to get over time. It's way more compelling. It makes way more logic

And then the point Jibris says red is now self-defense Yeah, it's like self-defense I'm thinking of even other ones You know, they're giving this to everyone What about every like six-year-old who doesn't get it They have to push it and you're just going to let every six-year-old Who pushes the wrong button die?

No, you got to be the head of your household And take care of the decision. No, that's why I'm telling them to press red. It's a secret. It's no, you guys, it doesn't say that there's, This is all like a parents to be secret In the actual hypo Boy, more boys would pick red

then girls and girls with your children, then you tell your kids, hey, the family's pressing red. We all press red. Make sure you press red. Yeah, that's exactly what I would be doing.

This is very similar. Have you guys watched Beast games? No. I've seen a little bit of it. I've watched both seasons of Beast games, and there's many games that Mr. Beast puts out that actually forces people into these questions. And this is why I don't trust people.

I don't trust people because I think at the end of the day, people are going to go for their selfish nature, which is going to be to click red. I don't care. I get that the poll is showing that we're on a trend of blue, but at the end of the day... This is what I'm saying. Nature, like, like, selfish nature is going to...

You've seen every episode of Beast games. I've watched both seasons. Hold on one conversation at a time. Okay. Yeah, I agree with you. I agree. Once you hit 50%, people are going to start getting the mess.

demo. Yeah. Like, you can, everybody can get saved. You know how? You all pick red. To Tyler's point, Beast games is a perfect example because the amount of people that it's like, hey, if you don't do anything, if everybody doesn't do anything, you all get money. But if one of you decides to sell out the rest of like your group, you get all of the money, the amount of people who are just like, yeah, I'm out. Yeah.

It actually doesn't. Okay. But what's interesting in the show of. obese games most of the time i would argue and again this is just my recollection most of the time people actually go with the group save the group and they get nothing and they end up with nothing that is why humanity has thrived though the ability to put the group i'm not saying i'm not giving i'm not giving my commentary on it i'm just saying in the game most people have lost because of their willingness to save others yeah and the people the people who have gone out on a

limb and take it. There's a couple of games where they can press a button and get a million dollars, but they like sell out like 10 people or like their entire team. This is why and most don't do that. The few that have have actually walked away with a million bucks. And and and the other 500 or whatever starts on the show. I can't remember how many. I think it's a 500 or a thousand. They walk away nothing. And that is why Mr. Beast is correctly named after the Beast of Revelation. Because he is sewing. Liz has a really good point. He is. He is. It is sowing evil. If everybody picks red, we lose no one.

That's what I just said. But they won't. We know that won't have it. Okay, but then that's on them, dude. I feel like the attribution is not going to, because X, Y, in the chat. But the arguments that you lose maybe some of your best people. We must protect the people who are pro-social but bad at game theory. One final thought of all of this.

I wonder if people's opinions are at all affected by the fact that in America, red states are the conservative ones and blue states are the liberal ones. Because this is always a pet people of mine. It always is a pet. You should flip it and run it back. Blue is the conservative color everywhere else, and it's also a better color, and we should have had blue, and I'm annoyed we didn't get it.

I actually made that observation in the SBLC op-ed that I wrote this week. I was like, hate crime map for SBLC. It's red, like hate and the Republican Party. And the Bolsheviks and the red flag, the song they sing. Yeah, exactly. All right.

I would just like, my last take on this is that I, uh, yeah, I don't get good vibes from Mr. Beast. He gives me blippy vibes. Tyler knows how I feel about blippy. And just doesn't... Allegedly. Doesn't have good energy.

I don't think he's in that positive out there. And yeah, just overtly pagan. I like... I like the intrigue that he injects into all the videos that he does. But I think it's super entertaining. So he's definitely talented. I don't think he's blipy. All right.

Blippy would probably push the right by him, by the way. All right. This might seem weird coming from somebody who's a little bit younger, but if you are about to turn 65 or if you're already on Medicare, this message is for you. You see, Charlie cared a lot about America's seniors. And he was outraged that so many were paying too much for their Medicare coverage and getting less than they deserved in return. That's why we partnered.

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So if you're turning 65 or already on Medicare, call chapter today. Dial pound 250 and say Charlie to speak with a trusted Medicare advisor. That's pound 250 and say Charlie. It could save you thousands. All right. Everyone's like, we should go on to a new topic. And then they see what the next topic is. And they'll be begging for the buttons back.

It's time to talk about J.P. Morgan, everybody. Oh, is that where we're going? Nice. This is disgusting. Lorna, Hajini Hajdini. Believe it or not, that name is European.

She's Albanian. Haddini. Okay. Lorna, can we see a picture of Lorna, Harjini? There she is. That's her. There she is.

She looks like she's like 13 in that image. Kind of. Uh, okay. Very odd look. Uh, so what's the story? Who has the most expertise on this? Uh, that would be you, Blake. Me? Wait, how do I do? Apparently.

Basically, she made this Indian dude her sex slave. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. I don't buy it. I don't buy it. I don't buy it. Okay. We gotta keep anything about this story is true. I think it's totally fake and I think it's clickbait.

You think so? It probably could be. Probably, but it's funny clickbait. So the claim is there's an elaborate lawsuit is brought against a J.P. Morgan, exact, this Hajdini by a John Doe. We don't know the name, but he claims... He can't be a John Doe if you're Indian.

We've got to come up with like an Indian version. John... Something Patel. It's got to be Patel. John Patel. That's low hanging for it. We've got to have like a fun like the Jojana Nannapathan or something, you know, because they have those really long names sometimes.

Yeah, well, all right, fine. She looks like in her picture like every journalist in D.C. by the way. Yeah, that's true. She was taking a selfie at the White House Correspondence. But anyway, so there's this very spectacular sexual harassment allegation brought against his Lerun Hajini. She's at J.P. Morgan. And this guy, okay, actually, wait, they're naming him in the New York Post.

That means, I guess I can, that his name is Chirayu Rana. Maybe we should bring back John Doe. Chirayu Rana. He says that she basically made him her, he was her underling and made, he, he was, Sorry, he was her underling, and he alleges she made him into her sex slave more or less, and would constantly... It's pretty raunchy stuff. Yes, she would drug him with rohypnal and Viagra and threatened to slash his bonus if he did not comply with her advances. No, but it was like pretty...

I mean, the advances were very dominatrix in style. Yes, so she reportedly would arrive at his apartment unannounced and force him into amorous. encounters. Is this AI? I thought it was I thought it was real. Tyler's trying to contribute to this chat

and this is what he puts in here. It's got to be AI. But it is. It is. It's this boss lady. There it is. There she is.

Standing over her Indian sex slave. Pretty weird. Specifically he apparently, so he was married also. She claims that he I keep mixing this up because I'm too used to the being women claiming this. He claims that she would call him her brown boy Indian and that she would make fun of his,

she would say, I bleeping own you. I'm going to ruin you if you don't stuff. I will make you pay. Do you think you're going to be in good standing if you do not have me in your corner? Do you think management really wants some brown boy Indian leading origination? I am going to sabotage your promotion if you don't. This is a little lured. Why did we pick this topic?

I don't know. Should we go straight to MJ? I might need to escape from this one. Apparently, apparently just. I don't think it's a good topic. A close second to the, you know, the demands that she was making of him in sexual abuse was the racial harassment, they said. That's so weird. That is a weird.

That is a funny part of this. She wanted a sex slave, apparently. but she was also very racist towards him. So is that racist if she wanted to also... You know what I mean? Really, let's be real. The part of this that is extremely funny is everyone, a lot of people find this lawsuit unlikely,

possibly completely fake. And it's not just because the allegations are extremely spectacular, but also because at the heart of these allegations is the claim that this white woman was just lusting incredibly hard after an Indian guy. And that's not usually the, balance that is anticipated.

The dynamic is different. One of the number one comments on Reddit when this was announced. So his position is now open, I assume, from a guy. All right. So I'm going to make an executive call here. You now know the story. It's all over the internet. Look up the rest of it.

It's really funny. We probably should. Yeah, I think we're going to move on. Jack, I, let's go to the other, the most non-sex-oriented story of the day. And that would be Michael Jackson. because apparently I was wrong I was under the impression that MJ was like

that we all assumed he was guilty You just assumed he was guilty? You believed the lying fake news media The jury said he wasn't Yeah totally I mean for real Like I'll own it completely I just kind of have been walking around You thought Michael Jackson was a pedophile

Just because We should present the topic I would just like to know Andrew thinks Michael Jackson is a pedophile Just because Michael Jackson Talk to like in a high-pitched voice And would invite children over to his house where he had a roller coaster and he would have sleepovers with them

in his room where they would sleep in the same bed and he would do as you think he was a pedophile just because he did that andrew i'm really disappointed in you well okay let's so so hold on guys context as usual like that we usually do when we change uh topics context here is that so michael is a new movie that's come out a biopic as andrew likes to say biopic is it just got dropped last week. All right. Yeah, no,

you're not living that down. So what are the, Jack, Jack, what are the, what are the ratings on Rotten Tomatoes? You sent me this. It's like,

well, well, so it's currently, I was you're going to say, it's currently the number one movie in the entire world. Rotten Tomatoes was trashing it. Russ is like our Rotten Tomatoes guru.

So I think he probably has the actual numbers, but it was one of those ones where it's like, the critics are trashing it and the audience loves it. Yeah. I mean, that happens a lot. I feel like that happens more often than not with anything popular. At this point, it's actually kind of funny because I've seen over the last year, like couple of years and now,

Rotten Tomatoes, people are just like, nobody listens to Rotten Tomatoes anymore. Nobody listens to screen rant anymore. And it's kind of funny to watch. So the IMDB rating is 7.7 out of 10. Yeah. Rotten Tomatoes is that 38%. Yeah, that's ridiculous.

So, Jack, they did not include any of the allegations of pedophilia against Michael Jackson in the film. Isn't that the big controversy here? Yeah, so the controversy, well, there's, there's actually, yeah, I mean, just yeah, it's that the easiest way to sum it up is that, yes. So they cut the movie because the family was involved with creating the movie. And so they say, oh, the family is, you know, too much control, et cetera, et cetera. But it's like, well, if they're putting up money and they're involved in the movie,

then why wouldn't they, you know, have any control? I mean, it's kind of a silly argument. But, but they were saying that, you know, you can't like, you're not allowed to like this movie because it wasn't a critical enough lens on Michael Jackson. And the, uh, yeah, oh, Angelo, um, you know, Angelo says, uh, he rotten tomatoes is still good. Just do the opposite of what, because, because to Jack's point what the critics say, yeah. Yeah, because to Jack's point, the audience scores a 97%. Dang. So it's like, well, it's a well done. To be fair, there are still occasions where the, where the, you know,

ratings are the same, but I don't know to derail this. But so I wanted to take this in another direction because obviously the, the audience is like, we don't care. We like Michael Jackson and we love the songs. And there is a jukebox, you know, kind of element to this where it's like there's a lot of recreations of him performing. You know, also when he's, you know, younger with the Jackson 5 and then when he's older in his solo career, you know, the first moonwalk, like the first time he played Billy Jean.

Or, you know, it ends with. a bad tour and he's going up on stage. The thriller movie music video sequence when they're doing the short film, et cetera is in there. And, you know, the audience is like, we don't care. But I want to do, I actually was like, guys, let's do this. And so I kind of Leroy Jenkins did on Twitter this week. And I'm like, I'm just going to come out and say it.

I don't ever think that Michael Jackson was guilty. I've never thought this in my entire life. I followed many of the cases, you know, as in real time as they were live. And I'm sorry, I just never passed a cult test with me. I'm curious. Tyler, did you think, did you just sort of like assume he was guilty? Yeah, I grew up thinking that for sure. Blake, you did, it never.

I mean, I'm not an obsessive true crime junkie. And I will admit with, as they say, where there's smoke, there's fire. And it's like a gigantic smoke machine, just like constant. spewing fumes. And yet, I will say, I think with Michael, what stands out is Michael Jackson is actually so weird and the fact pattern around it is so strange. I'm much more open to the defense, which is he's not a molester. He actually is just a weirdo. And what stands out in this, as well as some other high profile cases where people were assumed guilty and then it was walked back is a lot of the people, until they actually had a very strong financial, incentive to claim otherwise said nothing happened. And so they'll come out and they'll say, oh, this person who was around all the time says Michael molested him. Oh, by the way, he wants $25 million. Yeah, Caboos made a good point.

He said, I assumed he was guilty after that leaving Neverland doc. And I think that was kind of a big turning point for. Yeah. I assume he was guilty just based off of growing up. That documentary, though, has been like really, really criticized in terms of like, like did so many things in terms of stuff they pulled out i mean it's basically like a true crime podcast about michael jackson falling into the same lies and half-truths and misrepresentations that pretty much all of the true crime genre uh is uh is known for because they don't want to actually

what was that one uh about the the guy in wisconsin the killer uh making a murderer yeah that one was like so compelling if that's all you're watched that this guy was innocent, but then there was there was like a whole other side of the story that wasn't covered. Yeah. So Scott Adams actually talked about, what was it called Leaving Neverland, right? I keep going to say Finding Neverland because that's the other movie about how the Peter Pan series was created, but it was a really good movie, actually.

But the line was that Scott Adams said years ago, I guess when he had watched this, was that you have to beware the documentary effect. And when you said the documentary effect is this, that when you watch a documentary, typically they take one side of the story and they just ride that side all the way home, rather than giving you a two-sided view on things. And typically those are more popular

and those get a lot of clicks and a lot of views. And then, you know, and they're very persuasive. But you could then go and watch a counter-document right after that and be just as persuaded, like Andrew, like you were saying about the make of a murderer, that actually that documentary was full of craft because there was a whole bunch of information they didn't include.

And I'll actually give you guys a great example of this that I just know about for my own life. Do you guys remember Tiger King? Yeah. No. You don't? I didn't watch it. I've never.

I've never watched it either. I said, do you remember it? I didn't say if you watched it, I said, do you remember it? That was like a cultural phenomenon. Yeah. It is like a COVID one? Yeah. That's the thing.

Everyone was watching it during COVID. And I, everybody watched it, right? Everyone else was, everyone was watching it during COVID. I did not know it existed for several months after the big meme. I was totally out of the loop. And instead I was reading a bunch of books.

I read, I read a bunch of spy novels in the spring of COVID. Okay, okay, but, but point being is everybody watched Tiger King. It was a huge cultural phenomenon. And everybody thought like this guy shouldn't have been in jail.

And that Carl Bass was killed her husband and they thought all these terrible things, right? well, I actually happened to be in Oklahoma in 2020 later on. And I said with the guys I was with for a reporting for OAN at the time, I was like, hey, we should actually check out the Joe Exotic, you know, Tiger Place and see what it's actually like. And I got to tell you guys, when I got there, I did not realize how small it was. And I did not realize that like he was keeping those tigers. and whatever they did with that documentary to make each of the pens and enclosures

look so much bigger, it's just, it was all fake. These things were actually really small. Tigers were being kept in closures that were like smaller than a closet where some of them were so small, they couldn't even stand up all the way. And I'm sitting there going like,

yeah, Carol Baskins has a point, man. Carol Baskins totally has a point. And I felt like Netflix totally lied to me about that. Hmm, Carol Baskin. Like those were not good conditions for big cats. Why are I remembering like Florida? Was Florida part of this story? I think any of people collecting?

Carol Baskins was for. I think any story involving people collecting and raising tigers and other exotic animals is spiritually Floridian regardless of where it takes place. Okay. If I'm weird for kind of just getting weirded out by zoos in general, I mean, I go to them with my kids, but like there's a part of me where I'm just like, this makes me sad. You know what I mean? No, kids like animals. They should be able to see animals at the zoo. I sometimes feel that way about house pets.

House pets? Yeah. I like house pets. Well, I know. I'm just saying I feel bad that I feel like they're jailed. Hey, everyone. We're excited to tell you about Charlie's favorite supplement. If you experience brain fog, low energy, frequent illnesses,

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et cetera, et cetera, that, that, you know, it's, he settled the first one in 93 and thinking that, oh,

if I just pay to make this go away, that, like, the story will go away. But unfortunately, when he paid, that that kind of made the story bigger because people are saying,

oh, he paid because he did something. Yeah. As opposed to him thinking, oh, if I throw money at this, it's going to go away. So then other accusers came out. and eventually it led to actually charges in Andrew, as you should know, in Santa Barbara.

I think one... And a whole case that, you know, probably took place while you were there. Take that Angela... Something Angela pointed out that I found interesting. It's just, it's worth remembering this is one of the... This is kind of the first big child sexual abuse scandals involving a celebrity and really just making it a big story in general because... And so as a result, it sets the template

that we've seen. And so as an example, Michael really was the kind of guy who, yeah, he would try to pay people to make it go away. And I think today, there'd be a lot more awareness that, oh, paying someone $10 million is 100% going to make me look guilty. And that wasn't the way he would think about it in the early 90s. This is before the internet. This is before we have super refined, advanced lawsuit

culture. And so, yeah, he fell into that trap of thinking that that would work because it was an earlier time. And so people run with, Draxmore accusers. Yeah, to your point, this was like, I don't know if it was exactly concurrent, but right around the same time

as like the OJ trial. So this was sort of the rise of your tabloid culture. This is what the Kardashians, came from, obviously, being that their father was one of OJ's lawyers and was like possibly intimately aware of the case,

which we should probably get into at some point. But it was right around that time that tabloids were just having a feeding frenzy and they sick to all of them on Michael Jackson. And so people have been saying that, yeah, to Angelous point, this was like the first cancel culture. It was like the first iteration of cancel culture to say, oh my gosh, we can get this guy. And so, you know, the theory is the theory that he does the settlement and then he goes on Oprah, becomes even bigger or whatever. And then all these other people came out of the woodwork because they may have had some connection to Michael

and they were just completely motivated by money. And that's why there was multiple. I think there's a lot of that. And I think the also. Well, the parents. There's like a, yeah, the parents. And there's like a,

the sort of cancel culture. Also this weird, let's call it what it is, the sort of bully siding of Michael. I remember it was just the biggest running joke in the world that he, you know, for example, he had the white skin.

And a lot of people thought, oh, he might have bleached it. He might have been all messed up. That was the big rumor. And the really sad thing is. is it appears to be genuinely in the case. He just had a bad medical condition that, you know, was turning his skin white and splotches. He also had all the nose work and stuff. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, something like that. And then a reason he would make his skin white is it's basically you either look like a splotchy disaster or you make your skin as white as the whitest parts on it. Yeah, there's, there's a couple of photos you can find of, of him. I don't know, I don't know if we want to look for him, but where you can see that, so when he's younger, this is why he wore the glove, by the way. Because when he was younger, it started in his hands. hands first. And so he wore the one glove because his one hand was turning white. That's why he wore the glove. And he was like, when I put this on, then later, it was like the fingertips. So that's why you'll

see pictures with him. And he has like the tape over the fingertips. You know, he turned it into this like fashion statement. And it's actually like, you know, obviously very iconic. But it was because of this skin disorder. But then later in life, he ended up getting so like so white in terms of the skin color that you can see blotches of like dark like brown blotches on his arms and stuff where the rest of it is just naturally pale. And to your point, Blake, it's actually very sad. And that's why he had to, um, you know, where, um, or, you know, have like, uh, umbrellas when he went out and things like that. He couldn't even go into the sun. So I still remember, I actually, weirdly enough, I remember my mom watching that Oprah interview. She was always watching Oprah. And so I was all, like,

My brother and I would always catch like whatever Oprah interview that she had on. And I still remember when a couple of the ones that she had Michael on. I see some of the people in the chat are saying I remember when Michael's hair burnt during a Pepsi at. I'm sort of like these vague. That's in the movie. Oh, is it? Okay. Yeah, yeah.

They do a huge thing in that in the movie. It is like, like they show, it's graphic. They show everything. So there's two graphic scenes for anyone who's seen the movie. The one is, there's one scene where they definitely show them getting whipped. belt whipped by his dad, which is pretty well known that he was, that he was beaten,

father was abusive, and many people say this is kind of the reason for his later behavior in life that he just sort of had this stunted childhood. He had the physical abuse in childhood. Also something that people don't know is that his dad would book the Jackson 5 to play in strip clubs in addition to other places.

So he was present, you know, as a young kid, you know, 10 years old, and he's being put in, these strip clubs. And so for some of the later behavior to Blake's point, which is obviously abnormal, it's more of this like childlike

you know, psychology that, you know, comes from a lot of this child views. It's like a rest of development. Literally. I think it's, I think it's so interesting. And then the other physical scene is that they show his hair setting, getting set on fire. And I didn't realize that he had an entire patch of the back of his head, like basically just

burned off. And they told him that you're never going to be able to grow skin back there again. You never go to your hair back. And then there's a scene where, you know, obviously foreshadowing, where the doctor says, hey, I can prescribe you these pain killers. You're going to need them. So that's ultimately what I'm killing him. And that's kind of, well, it's, yeah, it's like what's set on the path. Well, the doctor got the doctor killed him got involuntary manslaughter, by the way. He was convicted. Well, like growing up, I think it's so interesting that specifically around Michael Jackson, like, I remember growing up, and, like, the narrative was that he hated his skin color and was trying to become white.

Yeah, and he was bleaching his skin. Yeah, and then he was trying to look more white, which is why I got all the nose jobs. Yeah. And then now you, like, now you start to realize, like, there was actual, like, he had actual, like, like, stuff that was going on. And then he had, uh, there was a joke. My dad had a, the word. It's called.

Vittorago or whatever. My dad had a favorite line that he would repeat. I can't imagine he came up with it. Originally, yeah. The joke was, uh, only an American, you'd be. Can you be born a poor black boy and die a rich white woman? I think I'm very... But no, I thought that was such an interesting concept.

That was, yeah, I definitely heard that before. Having gotten older and like... Southbark, of course, was pretty brutal. I thought that was always really just fascinating how crazy that was. He was always pretty quiet about it. Like, he didn't really weigh in and set the record straight too much. I think Michael Jackson... Well, and that's possibly would have been a better, like, from a PR strategy, you know,

to kind of like maybe just have somebody go, out and talk about that right and maybe these days that might be more of what someone would do right i think that i mean look at the last 40 years in american pop culture i mean the guys who have become mega mega superstars madonna brittney spears you could put conya in there uh michael jackson they've all had like horrifically bad stuff happened to them because i think the amount of pressure and mental fatigue that is created by creating icons like these people. I mean, Elvis destroys them. I mean, if drugs doesn't get you?

Well, yeah, but to your point, like, even Elvis was pushed there. Like, yeah, there's like a lot of these guys. And a lot of those people, like, die early deaths because of drugs and partying and da-da-da-da. That's a different category of person in my mind. The person that I'm looking at is like the person that's surrounded by so many people constantly and is made into like this almost like god-lo. like pop culture figure and they like no human being is capable of like I don't think I don't think anyone really is capable of over overcoming that situation and I think I actually Michael

Jackson to me you know he's probably a weird guy that was created in that in that light in that vein but I kind of feel bad like me for me like I kind of feel bad for Michael Jackson in the same way that I kind of feel bad for Kanye West yeah but unless he actually did did a little kid No, no, I know. And that's like the caveat, right? Like, of course, like, if he's a criminal, but if he's not a true criminal, he's just a weird person that, like,

said weird things and was weird around people and, like, kind of screwed up at, like, at the worst possible moments and didn't handle those things correctly. Yeah. Like, again, I think Kanye West is actually the most similar person in modern culture to that. Not in the same, in the exact same personality type way,

but in the way it's like, there's nothing that he, he could do he was kind of crafted into this like this the social pressure situation of course he said he's said and done some things that are really stupid and and like made him look really bad but there was like no win for him to come out of that so this is and i kind of feel that way about michael jackson fos has a good interesting timeline so he does the opera interview he it was what was what did you say it was the 14 year silence no so no interviews just his music let's that speak for itself six months later comes the first

accusation. And so Faza is saying because he looked weak. So people thought they could take advantage. 90 million people watched it. That's interesting. Wow. That's an interesting. That's an interesting insight.

Wow. No, and that's what I'm saying, though. It was like the OJ trial in the sense that it, because this was the era of 3, 6, and 10, and you know, there were only a couple of channels. Everybody watched them.

It's hard to explain how big Oprah was back then and how big just broadcast TV was because that's all you had. There was nothing else. So that's why we had a monoculture in the 90s for many reasons. That's why we had so many of these things because everybody was centered around television. And there's like a bigger media story here as well. And Michael Jackson dominated on television. There's no question. And then eventually MTV, which gave rise to that.

And so this, none of this is in the film, by the way. So the film stops right, you know, I want to say like 1989, 1988, give a take. So it stops right before the 90s when all of like this happens, where he gets propelled into like insane levels of superstardom, but also that, you know, these, these hits start coming. But it does, I think, for a lot of people, it resets the narrative on Michael Jackson by going all.

the way back to when he's a kid, showing that he did have this abusive childhood, showing that when, you know, when he talked about, hey, I had this Neverland because I wanted to recreate my lost childhood, which, which is a huge piece, right? So they show him like reading Peter Pam when he's a kid and then he eventually gets bubbles the monkey and he's like reading it to bubbles. And as he gets older, he's like talking about it over and over of him trying to find Neverland, you know, the land where you never grow up. And then eventually he creates it himself.

And I just say this while we're on here that, you know, McCauley Culkin, McCauley Culkin, who was famously friends with him at the time, has always defended him, has always publicly defended him. And I believe testified on his behalf under oath that, you know, he was there and nothing ever happened. All right. But Jack, thought crime. Uh-oh. Thought crime.

What if McCauley Culkin was guilty? Yeah. What about that, Jack? No. No, he was a kid. Two childhood stars bonding in their weirdness. A kid who I will know is capable

of building a well-engineered trap engine. Trapp house. To like take out adult men whom he like tortures with blow torches and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Totally normal. And micro machines and broken Christmas ornaments. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. Come on now. No, I almost wonder, I would even go so far and I tweeted something about this earlier this week where I said, you know, in a way, and what I was getting at was that I wonder if Michael was trying to reach out to, you know, child stars like a McCauley Colkin to say, hey, you're, you're blowing up the same way I did when I was a kid, but maybe I can get you out of those bad situations that I was in and like, here's a place you can come where none of that stuff is going to happen and they can't get to you from here. And, and let me try

to get you off of that train because, you know, go go look at some of the other 90s. kid stars, my gosh, you know, you could go down the list of, you know, like Lindsay Lowhan and others that were, you know, just, just Amanda Bines. Amanda Bines, that's who I was thinking. So many problems that happens that of child stars from pretty much the same era or just a little bit thereafter. Now Ariana Grande is going down that. Before we, before we moved off, she's crazy.

You know who did okay? And she was on the same show, right? Wasn't Ariana Grande also on a Nickelodeon? show. She was on a Nickelodeon show. Hey guys, we're running out of time here. Before we run out of time, did you know that there's a Michael Jackson arcade game where you have to save children from

like pedophile working dudes? Yes, there is. Let's throw it up. Let's throw up that image I posted in Tharkham. Let me move it over to production. This is a real a real image from it. It's a really small. It's called Moonwalker.

Yeah, it's called Michael Jackson's Moonwalker. It's great. Every single level, you have to, there's a bunch of kids. They've been abducted. by these fat, middle-aged-looking white guys who are, like, creepy-looking, and you have to beat up those guys and rescue the kids. And when you touch the kids in the game, you walk over them, they'll be like,

thank you, MJ. You save them, yeah. Yeah, you save the kids. So it's like a big joke against him. So I played the Sega version of this a lot. The ending screen of this game says, what about the children that he saved? Well, they're smiling because deep down in their hearts, they know that Michael will return one day to share with them.

another wondrous and magical adventure. That's disgusting. All right. All right. So last thing, last thing, we're all going to try and watch Animal Farm, I believe. This is the last thing and then we'll go. Well, yeah, but we're going to, we're going to review it next week. Yeah, we're going to review it next week.

So I don't believe in trashing a movie before I've seen it. I'm not going to trash it. And so here's what I will say. I called because we've worked with Animal Farm or, sorry, Angel Studios for years. The Guild approves all the projects. So you have to greenlight it with the guild. The guild voted for it, which is interesting. And like a lot of our audience are members.

They didn't make it. They distributed it. And by the way, I'm told Seth Rogen will not, he is, will not promote the film once Angel got involved, which is fascinating. Which makes sense with being South Rogan. Yeah. So Angel Studio is distributing it, but they didn't make it. Right. Correct.

Right. So the other thing I found out, though, is that they did tweak the ending a little bit to like, I guess they, in an attempt to make it a little bit more thematically with what the... What's the controversy here? What's the controversy? The controversy is that it is actually a critique on capitalism where the original is a critique on communism.

So they flipped the roles. But I'm told that it's a... The guild voted for it because there was an assumption that it was a critique on just corruption in general. But I'm not going to... We'll have to see it. I'll have to see it.

And I've read Animal Farm relatively recently. So, yeah, I mean, I've read the book. I don't even know how many times. I mean, it's so great. Yeah. Well, I'm just saying. I mean, no, Russ, it's real short. Like, you could literally read it in the weekend.

No, I read it. I read it all four years in high school. I don't know as a homeschool. I'm sorry. I thought you said. They're like, hey, there's nothing better. Yeah. So I read it four times.

Yeah. Yeah, we're going to watch it at the, yes, we will. I'll get a screener for the team. So I literally heard we're going to talk about and I was like, you know, what is it? All I know is that Angel Studio does a lot of good stuff. Can they miss sometimes? Absolutely.

I'm going to go into this with an open mind. And if they missed and it is like a crap movie that totally bastardized it, like a lot of people are saying, I will be the first to admit it. I'm interesting. But I also don't think, you know, listen, it's just show, you got to have a little creative license in this, in this business. And they probably missed on this. But I don't know. We'll see. I will go into it with open, with open ice.

I have You know I like to come As everybody knows I like to have my own opinion on on things Especially films And you know I don't always

Overtly And he's often wrong Yeah Overtly capitalist All at all at two times speed I think Oh yeah Everything at 2X

Why would you waste time Yeah exactly All right So we are going to give you A review of Animal Farm Because it's been a big kerfuffle Tim Poole is very upset about this adaptation of the film and we'll see if he's right. I haven't watched the screener yet.

And in fairness, I will say I did try to track down. Russ and I were chatting about this this week. We tried to track down like an advanced screener of it. We weren't able to get one. So we will have to wait and report back. Yeah. Apparently the guy that directed it is like pretty left. Andy Circus.

He's called him. Wow. The star of Lord of the Rings is super left. So the star of Lord of the Rings is super left. Sorry, I can't hear you, Jack. I can't hear you over the sound of this awesome music. Amazing music is really drowning it out. So the main guy from Lord of the Rings is super to the left.

Wow, that's crazy. And he's ruining, like, a famous anti-communism. The main guy. Uh, story. Wow. That's very interesting. I wonder how gay animal farm is going to be. Oh, no.

I need to get off of the show. All right. That wraps us up. Jack. It's been a good show. You want to take us home? Ladies and gentlemen, go out there and commit more. Thought crime.

It's sometime in the future. The ultimate challenge. Crossfire. Cross fire. You get caught. Crossfire. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.