The Charlie Kirk Show - THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 88 — Tucker v. Cruz? The Bloodthirsty Base? Charlie Goes to the WNBA?

Episode Date: June 21, 2025

America hasn’t joined the Iran war…yet, anyway. Charlie, Jack, Tyler, and Blake discuss questions like:   -Did the viral clash of Tucker Carlson vs Ted Cruz change people’s minds? And did both of them mangle the Bible? -Why do some conservatives seem eager to nuke Tehran? -Will Charlie finally attend a WNBA game?   Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Okay, everybody thought crime with Blake, Jack, Tyler. Great conversation. We talk about a lot of things, including Israel, Iran, the WNBA and federal lands. Email us as always freedom at Charlie Kirk dot com and become a member today. Members dot Charlie Kirk dot com. That is members dot Charlie Kirk dot com and get involved with turning point USA today at TP USA dot com. That is TP USA dot com. Start a turning point USA chapter at tpusa.com. That is tpusa.com. Start a Turning Point USA chapter today at tpusa.com.

Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy.

His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created. Turning point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble

Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegold investments.com. That is noblegoldinvestments.com. It's where I buy all of my gold go to noble gold investments dot com Okay, everybody welcome we are doing thought crime right now we have blake we have jack we have tyler we have lots to talk about I feel like a few things have happened this week charlie just a couple things so what i what do you mean

This is the news this week. We talked about I even know what we're gonna get into really it means and I've just kind of recently home this week no Yeah, no real idea. What's been happening. We need to get Charlie and Tyler. Are you at the beach? Are you at the beach right now Tyler? I? Am in I'm in Jack's world outside outside of Philadelphia That's right an Eagles game saw that on your Instagram season though You know how much Jack loves the Eagles it will be NFL season soon. So yeah, I love the champion like that Thank you see actually Charlie speaking of you you're saying you know whether you were in the news or not

I feel like it'd be really funny if we if we could get you into like Catholic level religious retreats So is that like go out for a walking put your Phone away, I've been reading a biography of an old Emperor and he during Holy Week He's the Emperor of like the largest Empire in Europe Holy Week He would just go to a monastery for a week and do no official business That's amazing so like imagine if you started doing that and then you just come back after a week And they'd be like Charlie we're you know World War three started you're like, oh, oh gosh No, but Charlie does that I do that every time you do that every Saturday though. I do. Yeah

You know matter what's going on you do the Saturday? No phone Friday night turning off. So that's right. She bought she'll look we get Silent for what about for about when there's an event That is the exception. It's hard. I actually turn off my phone, but I do have to work when there's an event. That is the exception. It's hard. I actually turn off my phone, but I do have to work. But I did it without a phone, at least. And it makes it actually a lot more relaxing,

and I'm more present, for sure. But I'd say four or five weekends a year, I have to work. But it's just the nature of the beast. So you have to sometimes have an exception. Do you try to rotate it at all? Where like Sunday, then you make more? Yes, I try to make up on Sunday. I try to.

It's harder because- Yeah, because I remember on Saturday, somebody hit me up trying to get a hold of you. And I was at the parade and I was like, oh, Charlie's on his phone on Saturday. And I was like, I was like, yeah, you got to go through someone else. But then I did get a message from you in the chat and I was like, oh, maybe he is on his phone. Yeah, so last Saturday at Women's Summit, I had it on in the morning and then I turned off my phone the rest of the day. And so I was like, yeah, this is too much.

By the way, it was like the Minnesota terrible story in Minnesota. It was just like all this about Israel, Ron. I'm like, I can't. It was crazy. Yeah, it was too much. It was literally information overlooked. Speaking of which, so this episode might get a little dated, so let's try to make this in more of a timeless. Are we doing Persia first? We'll do it, but yeah, we can zoom

out. We're not obviously some dramatic content in the next three hours. Let's actually, you know, do we have a piece of tape from the nuke boomer Shane that we could pull. I actually think it's a very interesting place to start. Right? So on our program, there was one of our members, and I don't want to insult him, he's a member, he pays money, like good for him, like I think it's an insane view that he has, and thank you for being a member. Two different members called us in during the hour, and this was non-sarcastic, right? One of which said that there is no cost great enough if we were to invade Iran with ground troops He said he made the comparison to the book of Esther that yes, huh? What's his name? Haman Haman Haman Haman? He's the he is the

Persian vizier official in Shaws course to be clear Haman is closely to like Hitler like the ayatollah is threatening to be Hitler But he actually hasn't killed nearly as many Jews as like hey I was telling Charlie this week that a lot of people don't realize Iran to this day has the largest Jewish minority of The Muslim states in the Middle East remaining so there used to be hundreds of thousands of Jews in Yemen in Egypt in modern Iraq those communities communities are gone. They've moved to Israel or to the United States and they're basically extinct. Iran used to have

far more. Most of them did leave, but there is a remnant of about 10 to 20,000 Jews in Iran. You can look online. There are Jewish-themed tours that you can go to in Iran that are marketed at like Jews, Persian Jews who live in Los Angeles, sort of that. They go on vacation there and I think this is my favorite part. There is a constitutionally required Jewish affirmative action representative in the Iranian legislature that they have. They have one for them, they have a couple for the Armenian Christians, and I think they have one for Zoroastrians even. Yeah and so I looked this up the Iranian government says that they're anti-Zionist but they do not call for the extermination of the Jewish people.

That's good they're moderates Charlie. I don't know about that but I mean they did say this though that I don't think they're moderates but it's important to to to note they say that they call for the destruction of the Zionist regime, which would be a lot of dead Jews, let's just be honest. But they say Jewish Iranians have said, we are Iranian, we are not Zionists. That distinction protects them politically, so there's 15,000 Jews still in Iran. It's not a lot, but I mean, it's interesting because you would think that they would kill all the Jews.

And to be clear, I think they basically are required to disavow Israel effectively to avoid harassment. It's not, it is not great, but clearly it is better than the Jews who lived in Egypt who are all gone. You can go to Egypt. I think there are literally like three Jews remaining in Egypt and that used to be one of the largest Jewish communities in the world. That's right.

So, all right, this is it. So this is 419. This is, okay, this is the boots on the ground one. I think it's important because we have to try to define what the consequences of some of this stuff would be and how bad these ideas are, how morally troubling these ideas are. Let's play cut for 419. So very interesting question and thoughtful. How many American troops are you comfortable with to effectuate regime change in Iran?

Oh, I don't know. Whatever is necessary. So if 10,000 American troops died, would you be okay with that? I would. I think this is the main enemy, not Iraq. This is it. Do you think Iran is a greater enemy than China? Well, we can't defeat China.

See, that's an impossible scenario. Oh, okay. So just to be clear, you would be okay with boots on the ground in Iran? I would. Okay. So, yeah, and then he was followed up by another guy. But Blake, so let's just take that one first. Then we'll do the nuclear weapon one.

Why is Iran, even if we're like, we're going to invade Iran, why would that probably be a really bad idea? Exactly. This is actually why, well, I'm sure we'll get to this later, that viral exchange between Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz, like how many people are in Iran. A relevant question, especially if you're doing boots on the ground. When we invaded Iraq 20 years ago, it had slightly over 20 million people. I wanna say 22 million or so. Iran today has over 90 million people. So that is more than four times the size. Incredible.

And it's pretty spread out. They're not all concentrated in one city or anything. And then geographically the country, Iraq, I wanna say is like 140,000 square miles, maybe 160,000. Iran is over 600,000 square miles, maybe 160,000. Yep. Iran is over 600,000 square miles. So I think you say like three times the size of Texas about two and a half times the size of Texas. But also if you even to get to Tehran, isn't it nestled within mountains all around? Yeah, it's a very mountainous country. Like

Iraq, if when we invaded Iraq, Iraq is Tigris River, Euphrates River, and almost all the people kind of live along those rivers. You have some large cities, but it's all sort of in a line going down to the Persian Gulf. It's a very fertile crescent. Yeah, literally the fertile crescent, yeah. And Iran, it's, yeah, you have Tehran, a city of 16 million people,

so that's about the size of New York, plus its immediate suburbs. Near the Zagros Mountains to the south Yep, yep I can't remember all the ice to come on like you know that I used to compete in the geography I forgot you got to know every single Argos Mountain like can you not name every person that lives in Tehran? I cannot do that I cannot I can name at least three cities in Iran which I think that's the fun follow-up to

Like the how many people live there is like name name four cities in Iran And well, I can't know I mean like Mashad nut-nuts um Tabris Iran yeah, all right you're good. He's fun is a good one. Yeah, Bandar us Because maybe based on calm like this out you om I've no idea how they're supposed to say that but like Calm like so you om I've no idea how they're supposed to say that but like But har yeah, so it's lar it's very geographically very tons of mountains So the landscape is pretty comparable to like Afghanistan just tons of mountains tons of valleys tons of caves in those mountains

There's desert of course you like the entire southeast quarter of it is the most barren wilderness ever Alexander the Great once marched his army across it and about half of them died in the process. And even so even though Romans wanted to take Persia, right? And it was a thousand. It was for a thousand years. They couldn't get it, right? Yeah, they they invaded at multiple times. Julius Julius Caesar was planning an invasion of Persia when he was assassinated but there were others.

One of the allies of Caesar, Marcus Licinius Crassus, he was trying to compete with Caesar and you know Caesar was in Gaul, beaten up on all. So the story goes he crosses into the Persian Empire. He's not even in modern Persia, he's in modern Syria at Karai and the Persian army shows up and this guy was not cut out for military command. He gets beaten right away. They cut his head off and supposedly they, I can't remember if he was already dead at this point, but they supposedly pour molten gold down his throat because he was the richest man in Rome.

And so they were kind of styling on him a bit with that. So Jack, I want to get this from a military expertise. So Jack, even if everyone was like, let's go to Iraq, how many Americans would die to displace the Iranian regime? I mean, this is a major country. I mean, a hundred thousand. Well, so, I mean, yeah, if you're talking about an invasion scenario, which would be what this guy was calling for costly, right?

You know, it's not special operations or one of these bombing runs, but an actual invasion scenario, keep in mind that the Iraq troop surge was over 100000 troops just there. And so Iran is a country that is a number of times larger, over twice as large as Iraq was at the time. Also, by the way, the people of Iraq would most likely come in in some way, shape or form here because at least 50% or more of Iraq currently supports Iran. There's massive protests right there. So you would need a larger force right now than Russia has in Ukraine to go into Iran to be able to hold the country and not even like I don't think actually occupy it.

Just to be clear, just to get to Tehran, it's not like you can just like station an aircraft carrier. There's no launching off point. There's like a couple of ports. I mean, this is such a bad idea militarily or deep into the interior. The Rocky Mountains are basically it's like the Rocky Mountains are between the Persian Gulf and Tehran exactly by the way there's also there's like tanks can't go across parts of the desert because the same there's like

sand traps in it it's super hot like let's just frame it in terms of so we I think our peak force when we invaded Iraq was 170,000 troops so we had 170,000 troops to secure a country of 22 million so if you just want to maintain the same Number of like troops per people in the country you need over half a million you you would have to basically You would have to move basically all of the troops of the Indo-Pacific, all of them. All of the troops of Europe and just say, we're going all in on Iran. For what, exactly?

Okay, so that's bad. Tyler, do you want to chime in on that before we go to bad idea two? Yeah, it's a bad idea, Charlie. The whole thing is bad. It's a horrible idea. I don't know if there's a single person online that I've seen that thinks that that's a great idea. Oh, no, no, no, it gets better. Point 1%

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Would you agree Blake? I think there was, it was funny as I saw, you know, we, we get some heads up on what the question will be. And I saw that was in the queue. I'm like, we've got to make sure we get to this. This is going to be, I didn't come, I didn't know. I was totally taken by surprise. I'm not usually speechless on my show. And this guy's not a troll. by the way a lot of people hold hold this view like this is actually a view

That people have All right play cut 420. We should drop a neutron bomb on Tehran Okay, so just make sure I'm gonna send your questions. Are you recommending dropping a neutron bomb on Tehran? Yes Okay,, so you I mean, the philosophy, I mean, I'm sorry. No, keep going. No, you see, the thing is, we

one option is the end of civilization and we know it. If World War III breaks out. If we hit Tehran with a neutron bomb and they don't even know why I hit them. I don't know. Most things should happen. So, so you're clear., like three million people would die, including kids and civilians. That's a proposal? How many people would die if we let this go to World War III? Okay, so and then I pressed him further and it was like, you know, and he didn't really

know the difference between a neutron bomb. By the way, a neutron bomb is actually like even more inhumane Because like all the buildings stay in like the whole thing like they're an interesting thing It's like the idea is normal nuclear bombs they shoot out a ton of neutrons But they're kind of contained by the nature of design this sort of intentionally shoots out And it's like it's like a pulse of radiation. It can like kill tons of stuff I know they would use it It would be like a tactical nuclear weapon because you can use it to like kill armor really easily. It's it's all complicated

It figures a lot in conspiracy theories. Did you know this? No, there's a conspiracy theory that the US used a neutron bomb on Baghdad's airport to capture it in the Iraq war really? So I once I once ran into a guy who was who was pitching that conspiracy theory to me this was a decade ago, but Yeah, so the idea is it's it's supposedly the it's the Clean nuke because it's just designed to kill people it doesn't kill you know Oh, yeah, it doesn't kill buildings and building lives matter Charlie so so Jack I mean I can't help but be somewhat speechless by all of this

I mean is this really an op, like people are thinking the cruelty, by the way, I asked him if he was a Christian later and he said yes. I was like, how could he was a Christian even like begin to like, just the opening volley of a war is to just eradicate a city of 16 million people. Jack.

Yeah, you know, and these are serious ethical questions that of course come up in the context of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They come up in the context of the Allied strategic bombing of World War II, many of which as we know, because with these atomic weapons, they don't discriminate, right? They don't discriminate between combatants and enemy combatants. They don't discriminate between any of that. So civilians, children, women, you mentioned the Jewish population of Iran, if any of them happen to be within the blast radius of this thing, they're all gone. They're all absolutely gone. And if they live, if they're in the next radius and then beyond that, you've got radiation sickness, you've got cancers, you've got all sorts of things going on there. My wife comes from Belarus

and people know fortunately she's from the western side of Belarus. The eastern side is where the Chernobyl fallout hit and the Chernobyl fallout still affects people to this day in eastern Belarus and people who were born around that time so late 80s early 90s you do have a lot of malformations you have a lot of cancers you have a whole host of issues because even though Chernobyl is in Ukraine it's right on the border of Belarus and the way the winds were blowing it it really really went into went into the civilian population and it was right around the border of Belarus and the way the winds were blowing it, it really, really went into the civilian population. And it was right around the same time as May Day. And in the Soviet Union, May Day was this huge parade. So again, you just had all these

civilians. So this wasn't, and that was just an accident. That wasn't an actual nuclear strike. Again, that was just an accident. And we know how bad Chernobyl was and you know she's told me also put it this way when when HBO put that movie out or the mini series out about Chernobyl I showed her the trailer for it and she couldn't even she couldn't even make it through the trailer she couldn't even watch the movie itself with me so I watched the mini series alone because she said this is just too personal it's too close to home, I know too many people or have had families who were affected by this and I just I can't watch it so she couldn't even watch it. I mean just like where are I mean

it's really a sick thing that people would just say go kill three million civilians like babies and women that have nothing to do with this like this is a moral darkness that has to be confronted It's sad and it what's kind of it's sick I've you know, I've read like one of the darkest things actually about you know World War two's impact on humanity is it did very much like normalize in Christian European civilization Like it kind of brought back the idea it was okay to just go Total war on someone like absolute war against an entire country and all of its people which I feel at the peak of western Christian European civilization

We had we had rolled that idea back like the u.s Civil war killed tons of people yet. There were almost no mass atrocities against civilians They did occur but you, but they were war crimes and people got hanged for them. The American Revolution, despite certain inaccurate Mel Gibson movies, does not involve mass atrocities against civilians. There are huge, the Napoleonic Wars, a lot of people die in those, but again,

you do not have it as a norm that you just roll into a town and just kill everybody. Or when it comes close to that, people are into a town and just kill everybody or when it comes close to that people are horrified and it's hugely controversial but now you know World War II it was you know they normalized the idea of total war you wage war on an entire country and all of its people and people are a resource so you're okay to attack them because you have to attack them. I do think I should since we are on thought crime I do think if you're gonna say that I probably should bring up that the

March to the sea Sherman's March was not exactly not exactly the the cleanest and no you see and that's where you're mistaken Jack that is he literally shot at like no no no you see that is that is where your mistake I once went in research I invite you all this is one of my favorite things. I once did this I looked up every county that the March to the sea went through and We have the 1860 US census and we have the 1870 US census Every single place that the Sherman's March to the sea went through had more people in 1870 than it did in 1860 Like the funny thing is is in the south you'll have like all these small towns will have this story saying the march to the sea was bloodless

Basically there were like there were like no atrocities in the march to the sea like they destroyed a huge amount of infrastructure Like they destroyed every railroad But like the rules that Sherman gave his men Well, that was the whole point of hitting Atlanta because that's what the railroad was that connected they burned Atlanta so they burn Atlanta deliberately but they don't like kill everyone in Atlanta they put the people in it on a train and they send them to the north and not to like scary train ride they just evacuate they do destroy Atlanta Columbia and South Carolina has burned probably basically by accident Sherman says he doesn't mind

because it's South Carolina and they deserve it, but it is accidental. But other than that, like they don't obliterate any towns. They don't destroy Savannah. They don't, so there's all these small towns in the South that have this story of how the ladies of the town like use their clever wiles to keep the Union from destroying the town. And what this gets at is actually the greater truth,

which is just, they didn't really destroy any towns other than Atlanta and Columbia. And like he has these rules. He says you can't destroy anyone's personal home. You can destroy storehouses. You destroy stuff relevant to the economy, but you can't destroy people's personal homes. You destroy stockpiles of food. You do not destroy food that is necessary for individuals to feed themselves. So it's very funny. Like this is an example where people will say this is total war But if you dig into the details of it It's actually a perfect example of how our values have changed that in the 1860s this qualified as total war yet it's Utterly incomparable to what we did in future wars or what frankly a lot of people want us to do now to Iran

I just I but so Jack help me me understand where does this come from? Where does that kind of cruelty and darkness? Where is this like we're just going to drop a nuclear bomb on an entire population? How did we get here? So I think a lot of it is, unfortunately, a lot of it is Marvel movie thinking. A lot of it is Marvel movie thinking, a lot of it is Hollywood thinking. You get this sort of war fervor also from cable news.

Unfortunately, some people just watch too much cable news and they think that, hey, all these people are evil, we have to kill them all, we have to get them out. We were actually playing on human events earlier today, sort of B-roll of city scenes in Tehran. And yeah, it looks like the Middle East and it's different from us and you see the burqas, but you do see families and just people sort of walking around and buying food and going shopping and going to work and living their lives. And so it's, again, it's, and having lived overseas and having spent time overseas in places like China and others that people say, oh, well, the Chinese, this, that, and the other thing. I said, well,

they're just people, right? They're still just people. And even if you have your differences with the regime and you, you know, morally want things to happen, you really need to be careful when you're purposefully targeting civilian populations. And unfortunately, I think that is an unintended side effect of the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, where some people think, well, that's just what you got to do. You know, that's just what you got to do to end the war, to stop them, just just nuke them, just nuke them all the way down. And to the point where Truman himself, you know, didn't obviously, people remember, you know, their history, even though he had dropped the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, did not elect to use nukes on China after they got involved in the Korean War.

And in fact, basically fired MacArthur for publicly speaking out against him. They had a huge disagreement about it. And MacArthur was saying, let's nuke Beijing, let's nuke Shanghai, and prevent China from going communist and not going communist, but you know, defeating the communists once and for all. And there's, you know, there's obviously a whole alternate history that could have happened had, you know, had that taken place. And so it's it's hard to say, but at the same time, I think there's

serious moral and ethical questions here that get glossed over because when people Hear about the war drums beating There's a tendency a very human tendency to be tribal and in that very human tendency to be tribal It's us versus them and all of us need to defeat all of them And if you're on the other side then you know, you're gonna get you're gonna get beaten going to get beaten, you're going to get killed. And that's the end. And and to the point, you know, Charlie, in this country, even in World War Two, you know, we did in turn, any Japanese Americans, many German Americans also face a lot of this, by the way, a lot of German, Italian American, German and Italian Americans went and volunteered

to join the Axis. So these wars are very complicated and wars get very messy. And it's never occurred once in all of history that there was a war that went well and went exactly as the initial planners and promoters said it was going to. So Blake, it's hard to even comprehend. Are we just, is there like a older generation problem

where they just haven't learned like any foreign policy lessons the last 20 years, you know, it's sad because like we think of Learning from things but the truth is for a lot of people they get their ideas about the world I think largely fixed in their teenage years their 20 something years and then they're just sort of they're just sort of locked in and it's difficult it's difficult to learn new things as you age and I think a lot just like we see in Washington where a lot of people got in a Cold War mindset so like that's why they're always paranoid about Russia and I think that's actually driving a lot of the Iran stuff we had The US and Iran had far more direct conflict in the 1980s

I mean we have the Iranian hostage crisis We had you know, you know shot down like more planes getting shot down things like that And I think a lot of people wanted some sort of payoff for that. They never quite got it. So instead we've just had this infinite Semi occasionally flaring up conflict with Iran, but people have always wanted that payoff and they never got it. And it's just coming roaring back and it will never really go away until people who have been craving that for decades either die off or get their payoff.

Tyler, what do you make of the generational difference that the older that you are, the more likely it seems that you're open to dropping a nuke or boots on the ground. Talk about the age difference dynamic here. Well, I actually think it's really interesting too. Again, we bring in the Russia issue, which is what is the outcome if you do some kind of massive drop into Iran? What kind of outcome then? What's the outcome going to look like with Turkey, your Turkish relationship, your Russian relationship, obviously the conflict that's

happening there, what does that do for American day-to-day life outside of the immense amount of life lost that we've discussed? We're talking about the impacts that we would have with gas and everything else. I mean, it is absolutely insane what would happen. Sorry, guys, I got this like everywhere I'm going, I'm just getting like, like I getting beeping in the background here. But you know, I think of the older generation and as they're thinking about I think of the older generation, as they're thinking about everything else that we see, the activists on the ground, which are the loudest that we hear, especially within the Republican Party, they're just completely detached from what this would mean for younger

people and what their day-to-day impact would look like right away with how they live their lives, what the cost would be, because largely older people are pretty much taken care of. It's the younger people that would feel the brunt of things. And on top of that, you're talking about the draft, you're talking about who would actually be sent the massive operation to backfill our military? I just don't know that there's a single person over the age of maybe 55 that is thinking about this in the same way that now the majority of our population is thinking about it, and

definitely Republican voters. Well, so what other dynamics are we missing here, Blake or Jack, on this conversation that are important that people should know about? I was going to say you do have, so you have the age that you mentioned, you have how people get their media, how people get their news. Some people, you know, and this came up with like Tucker and Ted Cruz, some people have religious differences on this, saying that, you know, some people say they they look at Ted Cruz cited Genesis and said, you know, this is why we have to do this.

And Tucker asked, why is that? And that sort of has ignited this massive debate online that I'm seeing as well. So I mean, there's there's a look when you're talking about anything involving the Holy Land, it's absolutely going to bring up religious beliefs and in some cases conflicting religious beliefs. Charlie Kirk here crime is skyrocketing. You may already own a firearm, but before you face the financial and emotional weight of pulling the trigger consider Berna. Burn as less lethal launchers fire tear gas and kinetic rounds designed to incapacitate attackers for up to 40 minutes, giving you time to escape and call for help without deadly

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It got sent to me by people who are not even in this country who don't usually always Always small was the biggest thing on the internet right now. I'd say biggest thing on the entire yeah a ton of people saw the you know question about how many people live in Iran and so I Asked I saw people say when I watched the whole video It was more evenly matched between Tucker and Ted that Ted occasionally got Tucker's sort of back off or he got in some good blows but what went by far the most viral we can play it if you want was let's play a clip 416 how many people living around by the way I don't know the population at all no I don't know the population you don't know the population of the country you seek to topple? How many people living around?

92 million. OK. Yeah, I... How could you not know that? I don't sit around memorizing population tables. Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government. Why is it relevant whether it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million? Well, because if you don't know anything about the country...

I didn't say I don't know anything about the country. OK, what's the ethnic mix of Iran? They are Persians and predominantly Shia. Okay, this is... No, it's not even... You don't know anything about Iran. So actually the country... Okay, I am not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran who says...

You're a senator who's calling to the government and you don't know anything about the country. No, you don't know anything about the country. You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump. No, I'm not saying that. You're the one who can't figure out if it was a good idea to kill General Soleimani and you said it was bad. You don't believe they're trying to murder Trump? Yes, I do!

Because you're not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation. If you really believe that... We're carrying out military strikes today. You said Israel was. Right. With our help. I said we. Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.

Well, this, you're breaking news here because the U.S. government last night denied, the National Security Council spokesman Alex Pfeiffer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive capacity at all. No, we're not bombing them. Israel's bombing them. You just said we were. We are supporting Israel. This is high stakes. You're a senator. If you're saying the United States government is at war with Iran right now.

People are listening. Hey, Blake. It's so... I want to highlight for people why that question about like the ethnic makeup and population is so resonant is when we invaded Iraq, one of the most amazing things is apparently, even before we invaded Iraq, a large number of people in the bush administration possibly including bush himself. They did not know The difference between sunni and shia muslims and iraq is like one of the only countries where there's a large number of both And saddam was from the sunni minority the majority of iraq is shia

And they were kind of you know on the they were the bottom rung rung of Iraqi society and the Sunnis ran stuff. And they were just unaware of this. They were unaware of that fundamental split in Iraqi society and what that would mean or how the Shia majority would have close ties with Iran because they're one of the only places that has other Shia Muslims. And that ended up being so important. Besides the insurgency against U.S. forces in Iraq, there was also just sectarian violence. You had Sunni terrorists would blow up Shia mosques. They would target Shia holy days for

attacks. And they just had no idea about that. And so that's why it's very relevant to ask that. You know, one of the reasons, one of the things I've heard said about Iran is one of the reasons they're relatively tolerant of the handful of Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians that they have in Iran is actually no one there has it worse than the tiny Sunni minority they have in Iran because they're heretics. They're not just a different faith. They are the true infidels against proper Islam. And if you're not aware of that, you just realize like we could walk into this thing where you can just step on a landmine and you have no idea where any of them are buried because you don't know what you're doing. Jack, your thoughts on the thermonuclear viral conversation. you know, I've watched it as well, but what's really struck me as much as the conversation

itself and a lot of these questions that, and I'm just going to say it, you don't hear these types of questions on Fox News. These are deep questions, these are serious questions, they're not surface level questions, they're questions that, as Blake has described, really matter if you're going to get into a war or as as as occurs the counterinsurgency after a war like a civil war and so the almost important almost as important as the conversation itself is how this thing is taken on a life of its own online this is the number one most viral thing with all of Gen Z and that's only because of course Charlie's not on campus right now, but thank you. It's all over TikTok. You can see this on the left on the right that widespread

support for Tucker widespread condemnation for Ted Cruz's position. And this is the entire, you know, 18 to 39, whatever you want to call it demographic of of millennials gen z people saying that that this is just remarkable that how could there be a sitting senator from one of the most powerful republican states in in the country who you know who doesn't know these basic questions and who is citing these very shallow arguments while at the same time just being glib, just being tremendously glib about something that could get a lot of Americans killed. All right.

So let me tell you the one where I have not publicly commented on this. I like Tucker a lot. I like Ted a lot. They're both friends of mine. I haven't gotten in the social media thing because I just think it's everyone's fighting right now and like blessed are the peacemakers and I'm trying to like I don't know figure out what the hell's going on We will have to be a party after this. Yeah, and I'm also just I don't know I think there's so I just I wasn't interested in that but the one thing I will say this though actually yes, this is 429

Maybe I'm maybe I'm just kind of like a Bible nerd, but how do you not know? It's Genesis 12 3? Like, I don't know. I think that's like very like rudimentary scripture. I'm sorry. That was one where I was like, you gotta know that. And so, okay, it's loaded. 429. Growing up in Sunday school, I was taught from the Bible, those who bless Israel will be blessed, and those who curse Israel will be cursed and from my perspective I want to be on the blessing side of thing of the those who bless the government of Israel those who bless Israel is what? It doesn't say the government of it says the nation of Israel. So that's in the Bible as a Christian

I believe that where is that I can find it to you I don't have the the scripture off the tip of my you pull out the phone and use the ginger It's in Genesis, but so you're quoting a Bible phrase you don't have context for it, you don't know where in the Bible it is, but that's like your theology? I'm confused. I'm talking about the political entity of modern Israel. Yes, and that is it. You believe that's what God was talking about in Genesis. I do, but... That country's existed since when? For thousands of years. Now there was a time when it didn't exist and that was recreated just over seven, but I'm saying I think most people understand

That line in Genesis to refer to the Jewish people God's chosen people That's not what it says. Okay, it is real, but you don't even know where in the Bible it is Okay, Israel, but you don't even know where in the Bible it is. Okay. This drove me crazy of all like, you know, like population tables for just to everybody is wrong here. Okay. Like everybody's wrong. Okay.

Israel is not mentioned in Genesis 12. Three Israel hasn't been born yet. Correct. Israel is Jacob. Okay. So that, that, that just, it does with God. Correct. It, the world, the word Israel is not in Genesis 12.

Three. However, it does say, and let me just say this, this is God's covenant with Abram before he became Abraham. I will bless those who bless you and whoever curse you, I will curse and all the peoples of the earth will be blessed through you. So yes, eventually that does mean the Jewish people and the people of Israel. Now Ted's theological view, I'm actually somewhat sympathetic to and but he just Ted here's the way you should say it next time. Tucker I don't anticipate you to agree with me theologically so let's just talk about

this geopolitically but we in our specific camp believe that the the reconstitution of the state of Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy in Ezekiel 36 that I will graft you from around the world and scatter I'll scatter you and bring you back into a nation. But that's not the most relevant thing. That's all he had to say. Right. Genesis 12, three and Ezekiel 36 is actually a better theological argument than Genesis 12, three, because Genesis 12, three is like, well, what is Israel

and Catholics would say, and it's fine. I don't want to get into it. You know, it's the church and it's, you. It's the church and it's the Jewish people. And it's like the Ezekiel argument for those of us that are sympathetic is a much stronger argument. But it should have just been diffusing. Instead, Ted was almost getting, in my opinion, I have a lot of respect for Ted,

he was almost like, this is what Christianity believes. Do you notice whenever I talk about it, I say, this is just a theological interpretation I'm sympathetic to. That's a much better way to approach it than just saying like, this is doctrine. And so there are closed hand issues and open hand issues in Christianity. Closed hand issues are ones that if you do not believe this, you're not a Christian, divinity of Christ, virginity of Mary, right? The resurrection of Christ, the creation of the world, the inerrancy of scripture, and there's open-hand issues, right? Which is like eschatology or what is Israel. And that's the way I wish you would have

explained it. Instead, here's what drove me the most crazy. Is it made anybody like myself that has this kind of view that God has a plan and prophecy very well might be unfolding seem as if we're like completely biblically illiterate. Does that make sense? And it goes into, I mean, I have to run into this all the time where I've encountered people in the US and definitely abroad, this is a very common belief

abroad that the only reason conservatives in the US are sympathetic to Israel is they'll just be like, oh, it's just because like they think it will bring about the end of the world to build the third temple or they just they think that the Bible requires them to just do whatever Israel tells them to do and like there are a few people who hold to that view but like broadly speaking no that's not the reason we do this. People who support Israel including pretty aggressively do it because they think it is good for the United States or represents good values that Israel is civilization, Israel is Western, and

they're in conflict with this, you know, a barbaric country and that's that's the best argument for it. I totally agree and so that my whole point is that if you are going to introduce scripture into a geopolitical argument, you better know it really well, right? And it should be closed-hand Christianity issues, right? So for example, if all of a sudden Tucker and Ted were debating whether or not Bethlehem should be bombed, okay? A closed-hand issue is like, don't bomb it because Jesus was born there. Right. Like that's that that's a good reason to introduce theology into geopolitics. Right. Now, if you're going to do that, which, again, Jack Hibbs would be like super equipped to do this.

A friend of mine, he's like, no, super well. But it's just kind of what it unfortunately what it did is it played into a stereotype that like they're using Christianity and they don't even know like the fundamental elemental scripture so And I liked that a lot and I think actually Ted made some really good points later in the argument Later in the whole kind of dialogue that I think were missed in some of the online back and forth The world is waking up to the power of gold National banks are scrambling to secure it. According to the World Gold Council, central banks added 1000 tons of gold in 2024, the third straight year of net gold buying. They understand what many

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There's a multi-layered question there because there's Gen Z's view of Israel has already been quite negative and that's not because of this interview that's particularly because of the images that they see coming out of Gaza every day on TikTok that are just going up and down all over the place. You know, here's this bombing, here's this that bombing, another hospital, etc. And I'm not going to get into the efficacy of efficacy of that or whether or not that's true or all the rest of it, recycling old footage. I'm just saying this is Gen Z's general view. And so it's already preset to be quite negative.

Then they see Israel launching this attack on Iran one week ago, give or take, I think a week and a day ago, and saying, well, here's Netanyahu again taking off another bomb, picking another fight, even when he hasn't finished his first fight because of political issues at home. And then this interview comes around on top of it to say, well, here's a politician who, an American politician who's gonna explain why all of this US money, billions of dollars, is going to go and support another foreign war rather than do anything to clean up our lot at home,

which is of course what President Trump ran on. And then they see Ted Cruz and he's making these arguments and I say, hey Charlie, it's confusing for someone who doesn't know all of the backstory or someone who hasn't read the Bible or someone who, you know, it's like, what's the citation? Can you even explain what you're talking about? And, you know, it's just not there. It's just not there. So, no, I think if you're someone who's a supporter of Israel, I just want to say like this, it's not going the way you want. Ben Grom 12 just just to be clear be clear, if you really know the theology,

I do pretty well, but not as well as a Jack Hibbs, you can make that argument. But if you don't know it, don't do that argument. Like that's basically because it's just you kind of get found out and exposed. And it just like because his second, here's the reason. He was like, well, as a Christian in Sunday's tool, I was told that we must do this.

This is a guiding principle. And the talk's like, okay, tell me why like what's the scripture because some people disagree Yeah, that makes sense. Like it if you're going to do that with incredible Specificity and it makes sense not just from a because we're not just talking about theological, right? We're talking about effective communication and so ineffective communication We're talking about effective communication. And so in effective communication, and if you're trying to communicate an idea to someone, then you really need to know it inside out

because that person's going to ask you questions about it and perhaps challenge you on your view. And so if you're going to use effective communication, you have to think, okay, where is that person at? I'm trying to talk to them. I'm trying to communicate my view to them. So you have to know your view. You have to know what you you're trying to say and that's on you as a communicator. And I mean this in in the sense of you know Charlie when I we do this every day.

You know you're communicating so effective communication always means you have to be able to explain yourself and if you don't then you are going to run the risk of what I think happened here is making yourself and whoever side you are taking look really bad. So just to kind of put a cap. So is there any, let me just play one more piece of tape here from this debate. I actually enjoyed, I encourage everyone, if you have an opinion on the Tucker-Ted exchange,

listen to the entire thing thing because I really believe that Ted actually made some really good points at times. I think some of the clips put him in a bad light and you honestly as US Senator you should know the population the top three seats like you should know I'm sorry you should know that like there's no excusing it but Ted is not dumb he's a high IQ person. Let's play cut 417, please. Does massage share all of its intelligence with us? Oh, probably not. But they share a lot. We don't share all of our intelligence with them, but we share a lot.

It's a close alliance. Do they spy domestically in the United States? They probably do. And we do as well. And friends and allies spy on each other. And I assume all of our allies spy on us. That's OK with you? You know what? One of the things about on us. And that's okay with you? You know what? One of the things about being a conservative

is that you're not naive and utopian. You don't think humans are all... Part of the reason socialism doesn't work is the mantra from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs doesn't work. As a conservative, I assume people act in their rational self-interest. So it's conservative to pay people to spy on you? It's conservative to recognize that human beings act in their rational self-interest. So it's conservative to pay people to spy on you?

It's conservative to recognize that human beings act in their own self-interest, and every one of our friends spies on us. And I'm not- Do you like it? That's my question. I'm not asking whether they have motive to do it. Of course they do. I understand that.

And by the way- I'm not mad at them. You're an American lawmaker, so I just want to know- hold on. I want to know your attitude. You said that your guiding principle, in fact the only principle, the only criterion... I said guiding, the overwhelming, I wouldn't say only. Is it in America's interest? Is it in America's interest for Israel to spy on us, including on the president?

It is in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because we get huge benefits for it. And you want to see the clear... But I just want to stop on the spying for a second. It takes place, as you know, including on the President of the United States and several precedents. And I just want to know if that's okay and why is it okay? Wouldn't an American lawmaker say to a client state, you're not allowed to spy on us? I'm sorry, I know why you want to.

I'm not mad at you, but you're not allowed to. Sure. And I don't care for it. I don't want to be spied on by you. It's kind of weird not to say that, but you don't seem able to say that. So Blake, for the audience that's listening for the first time, what

is the cultural impact of such an interview like this right now? It really can set the tone of things and it's really important. Like I said, it's an interview. It's like over an hour long. It's it's quite long sustained interview that hits on a lot of topics, but the nature of media these days is the vast majority of people 99% of people who see anything from this interview will probably see those two clips they'll see the massage spying clip and they'll see

the the Bible clip that we saw or or the the population clip so you like they'll see a handful of these things and as we said we think I think both of us agree Cruz did better in the full interview but it's a handful of really interested people who are seeing the full interview. And what can really set the cultural zeitgeist is the stuff that goes viral with other people. And that question about population, that, I got sent by people in other countries. What were they saying? They were just amazed by it. I think the impression, if you are coming in very superficially is

Wow, like there are people in the US who want to do regime change in Iran or intervention in Iran And they don't know that much about Iran and it fits into a script We have because we know the US has gone in without enough information into Iraq into Libya we it fits it fits a mental image that people already have in their head and that makes it more powerful, I think. And it has a great ability to set the tone for what the debate is right now. So I would not be surprised if whatever ultimate decision we reach, if that meaningfully lowered the odds that we go into Iran because it's going to shift how people are talking about it. Absolutely. Yrefi.com, privacy loan debt in America totals about 300 billion dollars. Yrefi has been an amazing partner of us and it's only getting started. They were

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We could do that. We've had a debate. Now that YWLS is over. We've been having a debate about, there was a debate about chores that we wanted to have. Chores? Men and women, like household roles. We could do that one or we could do that another time. I think WNBA is pretty hot. WNBA is, I'm not sure if I'd ever say that WNBA is hot, Charlie.

It's very popular. Well, I'm just saying right now, right now like it's this is the most I've ever seen because now there's okay So WNBA players people care about who W But the reason that it's kicking off is not because of the basketball. It's because it's because of like the WWF stuff That's going on. Oh, yeah, no WW. It's it's pure UFC So Caitlin Clark of course got targeted again. We all know why she's being targeted. It's not a huge mystery. And like a ridiculous flagrant foul, they throw her to the ground. Do we have a clip of the flagrant foul?

And then like a couple like a minute and a half later, a girl that we've never heard of before, Sophie Cunningham, comes out and just like throws the other team to the ground and just like starts a New York piston style brawl remember the brawl yeah the palace Oh, I saw the wrong people might not remember this my goodness the brawl was one of my greatest childhood memories I was walking into a restaurant called dennejo's it was right near my house And what they had these TVs old, and the game was on. And all of a sudden I was like,

oh, the fight's breaking up. And it was like a 15 minute brawl. I think they had to end the game or what? Oh no, they did, and do you remember, it was like Rashid Wallace or somebody that stormed in. It was Ron Artest, wasn't it? Ron, yeah. Who later became Meta World Beasts.

Yeah, yeah, Meta World, and he went into the crowd. He went into the crowd, and he was like laying down or something and then someone threw a water bottle at him like Ron our tests just went and fought random civilians at the at the palace Yeah of Auburn Hills game was called with 46 seconds left in the fourth. So anyway, so here's the new Here's Caitlin Clark with her bodyguard Sophie Cunningunningham, the WNBA, these other girls in the league, they are so mad at Caitlin. So here's Caitlin Clark. She's tired. And they just throw her to the ground after the whistles blown. Like, what is that? And so, so then Sophie Cunningham says, okay, she just takes down this woman. And then look, then she just stay on the fun. And it's just literally like, we're not going to put up with this. Um, and then look, then she just, oh, then she just throws a punch. And it's just literally like, we're not gonna put up with this. And of course she gets ejected.

She got fined $400. That's like 40% of a WNBA salary. I know, I mean, in the NFL, they're like a $200,000 fine. And so, look, this is Sophie Cunningham. She just goes full Ron Artest on her. Like for female basketball That's like a very a violent move. And so she's gone men's basketball. That's pretty gone like super viral now Sophie Cunningham, I mean look I'll be honest like Caitlin Clark is growing on me because we know why this is happening

Obviously, I mean they're mad that like a Midwestern white girl who's very wholesome and is straight and has a boyfriend that like a Midwestern white girl who's very wholesome and is straight and has a boyfriend has become like the face of the WNBA and like nobody cared before. But now there's two faces of WNBA. Let's put up the picture here in the ThoughtCrime chat of Caitlin Clark and her body guard Sophie Cunningham. There it is. So Tyler, people are talking about the WNBA. It's going up like a rocket ship. Charlie, it all happens in Indiana. You've got the Pacers now going to game seven. You had the Ron Artest, Malice in the Palace. You have Sophie Cunningham, who used to play for the Mercury.

The only thing I regretting, I wish this was the actual Mercury. So we had a reason to go to Mercury games, because it is so impossible to watch WNBA games with the amount of lesbian vibes that are in there. But this may be the straightest thing to ever happen in a WNBA game. We may have now a reason to go watch the WNBA and I actually think they should insert new rules that no, no, no, no, we're not.

It's not this's maybe straighter than Lord of the Rings this may be worse Charlie Indiana fever at Phoenix Mercury July 30th that may be straight night that might be straight night for for Phoenix fans is to show up support you know you know females fighting you know on the court they should make this a rule they shall allow fighting like the NHL I think this would increase sales immediately I don't know wait hold on that one's in Indiana no the August 7th Thursday August 7th 10 p.m. Eastern Indiana fever at Phoenix Mercury you so so wait wait Charlie a broadcast

Do you think we should make that turning point night at the at the phx stadiums? Yeah, we have to have like we have to like a protect Caitlin like sign Do you find that they're out pushing higher that they want you know that they finally found a way to get people interested So there's people like at like actually the you know WWF style back there saying, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, like kind of goading this this type of stuff on. We should have NIL for straight white females in the WNBA because that's the only way you're going to get men interested. You could actually triple their salary just with like NIL,

for straight white females that are in the WNBA overnight. They could be the most predominant player within the WNBA. And that's saying something for where we're at. So I'm advocating for it. Conservatives should start funding patches and things like that on WNBA jerseys. It could be incredible. I think, I mean, look, the tickets would be like $3 a piece.

Blake, we could do a thought crime episode live from the WNBA. We could just like probably take a large portion of the stadium because I can't. Where these games sell out? I don't think, maybe when Caitlin Clark was there. No, Blake, no, no. If we showed up, we would almost double the amount of people

who go to Phoenix, Berkeley games. No, by the way, we would come up with protect Caitlin shirts. OK, Stan. The big signs that say protect Caitlin. I mean, look, we know why she's being targeted, obviously. And so Fever Games do sell out regularly, they say, but I don't know. You understand how mad the home teams get? These away games are super popular because everyone wants to just come see Caitlin Clark.

We've been doing this for 10, no one cares about you, actually. So it's pretty amazing. You wonder how many people in Phoenix learned that we have a WNBA team because like Caitlin Clark came to play for some reason. Well, I didn't know we had a WNBA team. What was it called, the Mercury? Phoenix Mercury, yeah. It's pretty amazing.

I think the Miami team is the Sun, which obviously is maximum confusing. We went through all the names last week. Yeah, yeah. The Mercury games have been so poorly attended forever. And if you show up there as a male you You get spit on you. They just don't they don't like it. They don't like when men show up There's a lot of women who look like men who show up

There's not a lot of not a lot of actual men telling you we would make big news I'm just telling you right now. We would make very big news I think we should do it. I think this would be incredible telling you right now, we would make very big news. I think we should do it. I think this would be incredible. Man, the W the the Atlanta Dream, one of the WNBA teams, they play in a stadium with a capacity of 3,200 people. Yep, there's I mean, a lot of people like are now pushing for

Caitlin Clark to leave the WNBA because like they're trying to basically push her out is what they're trying to do. Do they have the conceit that she could play in the regular NBA? That would be pretty funny. I don't know where she would go, but I mean, nor do I think she should. I mean, she's great. I mean, she's honestly like I've respect that like everyone's targeting her. And I mean, she did say that stupid thing about like white privilege or whatever. But I mean, like she's an she's a norm adjusting table stakes. I, that's like table stakes. But like, I mean, they're really going after her. And now, hey, more women are rising up.

So this is 437, this is the full beef. This is, that's the bodyguard. Let's go to 437. This is, oh yeah, this is Sophie C cunningham just body slamming this girl and starting a fight it always like makes me laugh they should allow fights when women fight they really don't know how to fight they're just it's a lot of hair pulling yeah yeah there's a lot yeah there's a reason for that arms a lot of arms teeth and fingernails. There's a lot of It's like a whirlwind

It's into what we were saying before about about about just war theory She's completely remaking Women's basketball as we know it's pretty amazing Alright last thought there's there's Sophie Cunningham and now by the way They're gonna go after her too because she's getting like women can't stand the attention thing It's gonna drive them crazy. So all right final thoughts guys like oh Man, I kind of want to see Charlie go to a WNB again I want to see Charlie get really into it like he'd go like he's initially going just to do the support

Caitlin thing and then he kind of he starts watching the game and like the wheels start turning he gets into the strategy of it And then I'll bring my daughter like we'll start we'll start coming into the office and be like Charlie We've got like breaking news the president is bombing or and he'll be like shut up shut up And he'll be on his phone and he'll be watching he'll be watching a stream not not even of the fever He'll be watching like a dumpster game of the fever, he'll be watching like a dumpster game between like the two worst teams in the league. They're out of the playoffs, but he's just, he's riveted to it. He'll start babbling to us about the stats of these players and he'll be like this rebounder who plays for the Miami Sun, she's better than like

Dennis Rodman and like he's watching the women's basketball World Cup or whatever they have I want I think we could see Charlie like he could go full the madness could consume him I think so. So Tyler, this is a good idea. So I'm gonna go to we're gonna go to the NBA game together I'm gonna wear the Caitlin Clark jersey with the MAGA hat Yep, and then we're going to hand out let Sophie fight shirts. We're going to shoot that. We actually have at turning point, we actually have big t-shirt guns.

What we should do is we should bring the big we have the big rotary thing. You know what I'm talking about, Charlie? That's just sitting in the warehouse. We should shoot those off. I bet we could sneak it in. Yeah, we'll sneak it in. Well, pretend like we're'll pretend like we'll hire two very short haircut women. Just roll it in through the back door.

You'll never see so many Subarus than at a WNBA game. Jack, final thoughts. Sorry, he got me on the Subaru. My dad has a Subaru, and we're constantly blowing him off about it. No, no, this is great. And it gets into, you know, Charlie, you had a whole thing this week about going to college for your MRS. And I think all of this, even the fighting and the rest of it gets into this question about gender roles in our society

and what we're pushing people towards. Very good. God bless you guys. Till next week, keep committing thought crimes. Trust President Trump. He's doing a great job. See you guys next week. Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

Email us as always, freedom at CharlieKirk.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.