The Charlie Kirk Show - THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 92 — Racist Cruise Rules? What Makes An American?

Episode Date: July 26, 2025

Charlie, Jack, Andrew and Blake look back on the life of American icon Hulk Hogan, and also ask:   -What would the TC gang do INSTEAD of go on a cruise?  -What actually makes a person American, and can one person be more American than another? Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!    Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, a different type of thought crime. We talk about why cruises are awful. And then we have a great debate about prosentism. What is an American Catholicism with Jack Posobic, Andrew and Blake. Get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com. That is tpusa.com. Start a college high school or college chapter today at tpusa.com. Buckle up everybody.

Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. up everybody here we go. organizations ever created turning point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries destroyed lives and we are gonna fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk show a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with noble gold investments at noblegoldinvestments.com.

That is noblegoldinvestments.com. It's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com. Okay, everybody it is Thought Crime Thursday. We're finally back to regular order. I'm in an undisclosed location and we have the whole gang here. I believe we have Blake, Andrew and Jack. Is that correct? We have Blake, Andrew and Jack. Hello to all of you and Jack I'll just kind of say how are you doing? Are you enjoying my summer. I mean, it's been a wild summer, right? You know, in terms of, obviously, the week, you know, it's, you know, we've lost a couple of legends, we lost Ozzy, we lost Hogan. So that's definitely been something that's put a damper on things. But other than that, you know, summertime has been great, you know, with the family going out, swimming a lot, getting a lot of sun, we have been enjoying it from that perspective. So it's a, it's an interesting question. It's enjoying but also not enjoying.

Blake, you don't seem like much of a summer guy to me. You seem more kind of like autumn to winter. Are you are you a summer guy? Do you enjoy? Winters, I mean, I guess summer has been unusually gentle, though. Yeah. Well, I always tell people when they ask how Phoenix is since I moved here two years ago, you know what it's like. And I always tell people when they ask how Phoenix is since I moved here two years ago You know what? it's like and I always tell them that I feel lied to because I was told I was moving into a Desert and the actual weird thing about Phoenix is it rains all the time here It's apparently the wettest desert in the entire world and like it's rained like three times in the last week

So I feel I think I. How much we love rain. Do you understand like this, this makes me so bitter. I haven't been in town the last week. I love rain in Arizona. It's an, and we're traveling every time it rains. It's terrible. So don't rub it in my face, Blake. Andrew, are you enjoying your summer?

Oh yeah. I'm a summer guy. You know, the news cycle has been interesting, but the family, the weather, the off hours, which maybe are sparse at times have been amazing. But yeah, I'm a summer guy big time. Scottie So with that, some people decide to spend their summers on cruise ships, of which I don't know why people would do this voluntarily. Is this some sort of a punishment? Walk me through this Blake.

Are these people being sentenced to the cruise ship? Is this like in lieu of community service after they committed arson? I don't quite get it, but it is true. People do like they'll decide to spend a bunch of money to leave their comfortable homes and instead sit on like a cramped boat in quarters that are typically smaller than their homes, I will note, and then they're on this boat and it's filled with like noisy people and like a lot of like sometimes gross people and it's like often very unsanitary and then they like float on this boat between various like usually you know straddling the line between first and third world a bit

countries uh and they just hang out with a bunch of people and if they get sick or die like the cruise is going to aggressively try to get them off the boat because they don't like it when people die on their boats and that's what they do They pay thousands of dollars to do this. They book it years in advance, Charlie. You're reminding me of COVID when like everybody's getting trapped on the cruise ships, when the COVID outbreaks would happen. It's like I vowed then because then it was like a wake up call to everybody about just how disgusting most cruise ships actually are I was like never gonna go on a cruise at that point. No offense I guess we're never gonna get a cruise sponsor on this show, but so be it. I don't think we are what's the word?

I write it enough listen I and then Blake can walk through this latest news with it, but let me just tell you my whole experience with cruises Believe it or not. I have been on a cruise. I was done largely against my will. I was stuck on a cruise ship with Brent Bozell, Joe Piscopo, Jason Schaffetz, Alan West. Those are some blasts from the past and some other people. Jack doesn't like this topic. Fine, Jack, whatever.

Cruises are a very important topic and I want Blake to go to that. So were you on like a national review cruise or something? No, it was not a national review cruise. Okay, it was a media research center cruise. And we started in Rome, of which I wanted to stay longer. And I got super seas longer. And we went, I got super seasick and we went from Rome to Athens. And we were supposed to then go to like Santorini and then Istanbul. I got off at Athens and I said, you guys have a great cruise and. Bye. And I flew back to America.

And so I don't under the,, it they're so dirty. They are crammed quarters. I get seasick all the time. But Jack, I suppose you like cruises a lot. So Jack, make the argument as to why you want to suffer. I hate cruises. I don't know why anybody would want to go on cruise. I think cruises are ridiculous. I don't think it's a good time, a good way to entertain anything. Tanya has been trying to get me on the crew on a cruise since pretty much since we've been together. And I'm just like, look, I was in the Navy, I've spent a lot of time on ships. I have no idea why anyone would want to put them through such. So here's what it's like, right? I always explain this

to people at this way. And I feel the same way about cruises, right? So let's imagine you and I don't say it in a very short manner is imagine your work, right? You work at a corporate office. Do you like everyone you work with? Would you like to spend time with everyone you work with all the time? Now imagine you live in that building and you have to see those people every day There's no home. There's no leaving them There's no getting away from there and also you're not allowed to leave the building ever because you are at sea That's what being in the Navy is like and that's what I think about every time I set foot on a cruise ship So why God, why would anyone

think that this is an enjoyable way to spend your time? But then why did you do so many cruises? Was this a parent led thing Jack? And you seem to me like a Carnival Cruise guy. No, no, no, no, I mean, no, when I said I've taken so many crews I meant because when I was in the Navy, like from being in the Navy. Oh, I see. So you've never been on a recreational cruise. Got it. I've been on one. I know Jack doesn't like this talk.

I've been on one. Listen, listen. Let's all take a step back and let's just kind of look at the horizon here, okay? Now there's all these different types of cruise companies, okay? So they're, and by the way, they are relentlessly running ads.

I don't know what, I don't know what SEO I have on my YouTube, but I get lots of cruise advertisements. I don't know why, but I get a lot of them. So they go from lower level to higher level. So there's the Carnival Cruise Corporation, there's the Royal Caribbean, the Norwegian Cruise Line, the MSC, and then the Disney Cruise Line. There's the Royal Caribbean, the Norwegian cruise line, the MSC, and then the Disney cruise line. There's the Viking Ocean cruise,

Pontian, Asmara, Seabourn, and Windstar cruises. And so the, oh, Blake's, it's funny. Blake says you get these because you're a right-winger who raises money. That is probably true. Do you understand how many cruises I've been invited on? Andrew, can you attest to this? Okay, hold on, yeah.

I get invited to cruises to Alaska and to Vancouver and to Scotland. Yeah. As somebody who gets the incoming, the inquiries, like, hey, would Charlie be willing to do this cruise? And we'll make it with your while. And it's like, oh my goodness, no. How many times do I have to say no?

At this point, I just say LOL. When I get the invite, I respond. I'm like say no. At this point, I just say LOL. When I get the invite, I respond. I'm like, LOL. Just, it's such a, but the mentality of who goes on these cruises, and the reason this is topical, and Blake will tell us why in a second, it is, it's like a floating old country buffet

meets a bingo hall with everybody getting sick all the time. That's a very waspy interpretation of what it is. Oh but there's another type of cruise. There's another type of cruise that we shall we say call it I don't know the Spirit Airlines cruise. Oh buddy. So that's a good question. Would you rather fly a cross-country flight at 5 a.m. from Spirit Airlines LAX to JFK, would you rather have to do two nights on the Carnival cruise? I think Spirit Airlines. Spirit Airlines. I would take Spirit Airlines. So this is in the news. Blake, why is this in the news? Apparently, there's like two forms of people that go on cruises. There's older

Kind of retirees who love from the Midwest they love cruises And then there's the rambunctious types that seem to be causing a lot of problems right now. What's going on there? Yeah, so you're basically correct. I can attest to many many midwesterners Loving their cruises. I feel This will probably offend a lot of people. I feel like cruises appeal to the same demographic That likes going to Disney World a lot but like older So like people that you have like Disney adults who go to Disney World and spend a bunch of money on that if you're an Older kind of group the same thing you Like going on you know you go on like a cruise every year two cruises a year Anyway as you know there are several tiers of cruises you have the higher end

What are the what are the nicer ones than carnival? I can't remember all of my cruise lines. Well. There's Viking I'm trying to remember one. I like in Disneyland there's like something the Disney ones Disney does have cruises of course Yeah, the Vikings are the ones that are nice river cruises. I think maybe they're normal ones, too But here's the ranking best luxury cruise overall This is from Forbes all these people probably paid for this but take it with a grain of salt Ritz Carlton yacht collection is the best luxury cruise best river cruise cruise, Viking. That's what we're talking about here. That's a whole separate thing.

Yacht collection. I'm just saying, there's a whole, there's a boot, there's a bounty. The cruise ship is just an apartment building that floats, okay? That's all that it is. Private student loan debt in America totals about $300 billion. Wirefy refinances private student loan debt and they do not care what your credit score is Many clients aren't even able to make the minimum monthly payment on their private student loans when they first contact why refi go to why refi Dot-com that is why are EF why.com you don't have to ignore that mountain of student loan statements on your kitchen table anymore

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Go to wirefy.com, that is Y-R-E-F-Y.com. Yeah, so the mid-tier ones like Royal Caribbean, of course, they're kind of the standard ones. And then I'm looking at one ranking, and what's great is they refer to them as entry-level cruises. Like, that's one way of describing it. But anyway, one of the entry-level cruises like That's one way of describing it. But anyway, one of the entry-level cruise brands is

Carnival my understanding is carnival, especially they they became even more entry-level than usual during kovat because kovat Obviously completely bungled up travel tons of things got cancelled cruise lines were absolutely deep in the red, really looking for money. And one thing about cruises is you often book them quite long in advance. They try to fill them up way, way in advance to make sure, you know, they don't have a ton of people buying tickets last minute. And so they were offering these incredibly steep discounts that opened up cruise lines to all sorts of clientele that previously

did not go on cruises very often. And this gave Carnival, as Jack was alluding to, the Spirit Airlines reputation. It is a reputation for not always being the most pleasant thing to go on. And so this led to what we're discussing, which this went viral a few weeks ago, and it kind of went re-viral in the last week or two. It's like echo-viraling across the internet. Anyway, Carnival Cruise Line has some updated rules that people are noticing. I'm just going to read the rules as a summary I found describes it.

Number one, stricter drug enforcement. Cannabis, even if legal in your home state, is banned on board because it violates US federal law. If you do it, you will be removed and banned. Second, a youth curfew. Guests 17 and under must leave public spaces by 1am in the morning unless accompanied by an adult or part of a supervised teen program. I'll leave number three for last because I think it's the funniest.

Number four, Bluetooth speaker bands Guests may no longer play their own music in public areas Carnival says this is Jeff for general comfort, but some see bias in this Number five we have stricter enforcement of drink packages. So Carnival sells a cheers package that gives you a 15 alcoholic drinks per day limit on how many drinks you can get at their bars and apparently in the past the enforcement of this was a little flexible they wouldn't flip out too much if you asked for a 16th or a 17th or a 20th but now they're getting they're cracking down you only get your your 15. They are reporting, this is not an official rule, but this is being reported, that their music genres,

that their DJs play at the various dance clubs that are on cruise ships, they've been reduced. They are cutting away on hip-hop and rap music that their DJs play, and reportedly they even decline guest requests far more often than they used to. And then we're going back to number three. This is the final rule that I think is the funniest. They are banning handheld non battery powered fans like you know like the one like a southern lady would fan herself with in a movie or something.

Those are banned and they say it is due to safety concerns. Specifically related, there is a viral song that goes, has a title that is apparently where them fans at. And as part of the music video in this, they click the fans repeatedly. And I guess that became a meme. People would bring handheld fans on cruises, and they would click them and they were hitting people and probably annoying people a lot. So what do you think

of that Charlie? You can already tell me I bet why people are mad about all of these rules. Well and so then there was an article from The Root, carnival's new rules got black folks all in their feelings but others say the cruise line is justified yeah I mean I don't I mean they say right the Carnival rules are racist is what they are saying seems so take that for whatever you'd like discriminating yeah let's see they oh man the carnival has some very funny tweets in it one of them they have from some from someone going by Gichi Barbie. I hope that is not like a gross slang term

because I don't know slang. And she tweeted, So Carnival Cruise banning fans now because y'all won't stop putting boots on the ground and clackin' em. Laughing emoji, crying emoji. They even banning hip hop music. That song has black America in a choke hold LMAo I I don't think I've ever heard this song

Do we can we get like a clip of the of the fan clicking? I've got a wait to pass judgment on how annoying the song might be well, I think we're all in agreement cruises are no good and I'll tell you I Couldn't be punished for being on a cruise. I would throw something else out there. There's a, and by the way, if you want to take a regular cruise, fine, whatever, but there's this whole culture I've noticed of people, older couples, getting reverse mortgages

and then spending the money immediately on like massive lavish cruises. And it's like, guys, that's going way too far. You're you're putting yourself and your estate in debt so that you can go on some cruise like it's the most ridiculous and flagrant you just just waste. It's just straight. Well, that's that's a juicy vein of topic. Actually, it's just like you get to a certain point and you're like, I'm not going to pass along any of my wealth to my offspring.

I'm going to spend it all as quickly as I can because I earned it and screw them. And like there's a whole bunch of people that think that way. And reverse mortgages like I get it. If you're up against the wall and you don't have money coming in, you need the expenses for whatever reason. But, you know, to spend it on a cruise line, like if this is what you're getting against the wall and you don't have money coming in you need the expenses for whatever reason But you know to spend it on a cruise line Like if this is what you're getting for your money think about you could have had generational wealth and legacy or you could have this Andrew that's the perfect point though Back against we need to put people who like cruises against the wall

Or is this like a tweaking or twerking Joe? No Andrew don't you know your idioms when you put people against the wall they go they go before a firing squad Yeah, no, that is a very Blake that's the thought crime tonight the thought crime tonight Isn't that Carnival cruises are bad the thought crime tonight is that all cruises are bad? And you should feel bad if you go on them. They are never been on one They are the low they're the lowest form of vacation there is I'm gonna I'm gonna stake that one out cruises are bad like anything any type of vacation You could go on is better if it's not on a freaking cruise ship like do you like do you like a beach go to a beach?

You don't want to don't sunbathe on a boat. Just go to a beach or it's see myself doing like a kid-friendly one If I'm gonna be honest no Do a normal kid friendly thing go. I mean that's what we do, but I'm just saying like somebody was like hey They've got water slides, and they take you to the next cool kid location, and then we're you know go to them I don't know Location that a cruise ship goes to kids just want to go to Disney World, and Disney World is inland. Well, that's true. Let's go to the next topic, shall we?

No, no. I feel like we need to actually lay down the law here on the cruise question. Lay it down. I found one for Andrew. There's a great one that is called, let's get this one for Andrew. Ah, it's Carnival Celebration Miami. This one sounds perfect for him. Not going on carnival now.

He's going to bring his, Oh no, a hundred percent. I'm booking this for you. I'm going to send it to you. How about this? Boots on the ground? By the way, they're like soup. They are super cheap. I will tell you it's because they make a ton of money on the liquor and the extras while

you're actually on there. So it's a, this one sounds perfect for Andrew, the seven day Western Caribbean from Miami, Florida, the carnival celebration. Um, you go to celebration key, mahogany Bay, uh, Cozumel, and you end back in Miami. Andrew, I'm booking this for you. It's just great. And it's, uh, it's right. I market. And it's, uh, that's right. I, I, uh, market.

You trying to send me on a cultural, uh, experience, Charlie. Hey, you said you wanted to bring your kids. I didn't say, I said like, you know, I mean, here's my theory. It's like, just like I would spend more to not fly spirit airlines. I would probably spend more to not go on carnival. I think, I think that's fair to say. Okay. Let's go's fair to say. Okay, let's go to the next topic since we're all so spirited about it. Blake, what were we supposed to talk about today?

All right, our opening topic we were supposed to do, Jack really wanted to hit this so he might know the best lead into it. But the question is, what is an American, Charlie? Yeah, so this has been, you know, just probably the most viral thing on certainly on X all this week, you know, that's sort of in the culture warspace, if you will. It really stems from the back of this, I believe was the

endorsement win by Omar Fattah over in Minneapolis and then sort of this impending over in Minneapolis and then sort of this impending race in New York City regarding Zoran Mondami. And you're seeing people now who are running for mayor of major cities. There was another, I think it was a city council or representative, a Somalian out of Maine. Maine, you know, was going viral as well this week.

And people started really kind of asking the question, you know, guys, can we, you know, can we step back for a second here and say, what is an American? Because this has gotten way too far where we're having people who weren't born in this country, in some cases only became citizen a couple of years ago. And now they're stepping up to,

now South Portland, Maine, okay. And now stepping up to be leaders of some of America's most iconic cities, certainly in the case of New York City. And I think it represents a broader question for the movement and for America writ large when we ask this question, because it gets into all of these issues that we've been talking about – mass immigration, mass migration, the vulcanization of America, the Brazilification of America, the fact that many nations are now being created inside the United States in various locales

where we've had these mass migrants be emplaced really predominantly throughout the Obama administration and where our country simply isn't looking like America anymore. And I think it does beg us to actually start asking the question, what is an American? Making America great again starts with making America healthy again. Charlie Kirk here, I lost 40 pounds with the PhD weight loss and nutrition program and two years later I haven't gained a pound back. I started the PhD weight loss program because I need to be healthy to keep up with my crazy schedule. Most people start a weight loss program to get healthier. So why is Big Pharma spending millions to convince you to use their weight loss injections

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You won't be hungry and you'll never take medication. Call 8664-644-1900 to schedule your one-on-one consultation or visit myphdweightloss.com. That is myphdweightloss.com 8664641900. Andrew, you had some thoughts on this late last night as I was falling asleep. Andrew, what are your thoughts on this? All right, well, I'll read it because I don't know how good it is, but I was feeling inspired last night.

An American is first and foremost, someone born in America who speaks English, who is raised here, who is steeped in the Anglo traditions of common law, blind justice, equal rights, and believes in, or at least has reverence for, the Christian traditions that undergird our laws, customs, and values. An American is also someone who we allow to move here, who works without crime, nor harbors animosity for the country and who, after a time of painstaking pursuit, gains the incredible rights, freedoms, and privileges of

our citizenship. The former should be given extreme deference, the latter should be given away sparingly, far less than we are currently allowing." And then I talk about they should know who George Washington is, Thomas Jefferson, you know, that kind of thing. I mean, I really it's like I hate to use the analogy But it's like it kind of reminds me of that Supreme Court ruling on porn Like you know it when you see it like, you know an American when you see one and everyone knows that American is yeah You know when you hear their turns of phrases their their cultural references, how they interact with you interpersonally. It's not somebody that goes and runs for mayor and says, you know, our home is Somalia. I'm sorry. It's not. I don't care if you were born here. That's not us. BD So I would say also an American is someone who is loyal to a creed,

which would be ordered liberty under God, revering the Constitution, owns his land or her land, and believe rights come from the Creator. It's really the birthright of the Declaration of the Constitution, but I would go a step further than that. It's fidelity to this nation. And it's also, you're an American once you have skin in the game. This is very important. You become an American when you demonstrate that you're part of this project and that you do not have fidelity to another nation. Let's play cut 434. This is the new main mayor, Daka Dalaqawak says that her goal is to help our country of Somalia. Play cut 34 for Dalaqa Dalaqawak.. Policies, how can the politics in Somalia

can be resonate what we have here in the United States, the democracy that we have. How can you help us be a better country and build back what we used to have back in long time ago. So hopefully, we will be able to help our country, our former country, Somalia. So I don't want to take her out of context there, but it seems like she's talking about her country

being Somalia. And just first a little bit of a history lesson, that is South Portland, Maine. South Portland, Maine. Maine is a very remote state that has been completely transformed by mass immigration. You know, I think kind of the follow-up question of what is an American, and I think what can really like supercharge this is the question, can two people, let's say two people who are both American,

both American citizens, both born here, can one be more American than another? And that is where you can really charge it up. And I think it's certainly possible to say the answer is yes. I think Andrew's on the right track where there's an element of loyalty to America, there's an element of like creedal nationalism to it. But frankly, I think one thing that is underplayed is there are identity

elements to American-ness. And so like for example I would say you are more American if you identify with America's English heritage. So if you, I mean if you read like Americans from the 1800s, they very much see their country as a successor to the English nation that we broke away from. And so they would see as elements of American history not just the American Revolution, not just the settlement of Massachusetts, the settlement of Janestown Colony, they would also be looking to the Glorious Revolution, the Reformation in England, the Magna Carta, the Magna Carta, of course, Battle of Hastings,

if you want to go all the way back to that, that they would see America as an English nation, an Anglo-Saxon nation that broke off. And even if you are not Anglo-Saxon ethnically, the way Charlie is, like, I think you actually need to assimilate that fact, like if you assimilate that aspect of American identity into yourself, you become more American. And you have to take kind of America's side implicitly in all American things throughout its history. I think

I've heard before, I can't remember where, but like the the best a great marker for whether Hispanic immigrants to the United States have assimilated to America is if like you can ask them You know who lost the battle of the Alamo and if their answer is we did and because by we they mean the American Texans Who were fighting at the Alamo and if they're instead identifying with the army of Santa Ana because they're Mexican Then they're not fully assimilated yet. And I think there's that's an important aspect of American identity is you really have to try hard to identify with the earliest Americans and where they culturally came from. You are not, you know, saying I am a German or a Russian or a Middle Eastern or an Indian or a Chinese person who happens to have just plunked into America within the last 50 years.

And it's not a racial thing. I know they're gonna try to cut it. Yeah, it was phenomenal. It's not a racial thing, but I love that. So what we should do, and I'm not being sarcastic, Jack, maybe we could riff on this in real time. We should develop five or six similar questions of the one you just developed, right Blake, as a very simple litmus test, which is, and I don't even know if it's on my head, but that one of the, well the Alamo's amazing. The Alamo one is really, really good. And I think that's so smart, which is like,

oh yeah, actually I think what, at Pancho Villa, whatever, the Mexican general one, okay great, so now we know that you haven't fully assimilated to this country. Probably like the internment of Japanese Americans or something like that. There's maybe some Asian ones that you could do. I don't know, but that example's great.

I don't have any off the top of my head. One that went kind of viral yesterday, the Department of Homeland Security posted a famous painting of manifest destiny. And that went super viral because people were saying how dare you how how dare you do this, this is colonizing. So you know, what is your opinion of westward expansion, which wasn't necessarily a war in a sense, but it, you know, I suppose you could say it is in certain contexts. So do you agree with manifest destiny? And just again, it's a great list. Miss test because you're going to see, or you could say western expansion. If people don't know what that means. What are your thoughts on westward expansion? Do you agree with that? Is that something you have a sense of?

It's pretty good, Jack. I like that. That's a good one. Yeah, because right, right. The whole debate is like, are we on stolen land? It's like, right. No, we, we, we, we settled it. All right.

We settled it. And by the way, you know, if you go back through his this, this one always upsets me because if you go back through history every piece of land has been stolen from somebody else At what point do you you know and it's like that? Was it? Who's the MSNBC? Excuse me? Excuse me conquered conquered. Yes, yes, right. No, that's fair But what's the what medias on right and he went on? The Jubilee which Charlie made famous. Thank you. This is another one of the viral things Yeah, this is the viral thing we need a shout out. Yeah, it was the original Jubilee year Charlie I felt like I felt like they didn't have it quite dialed in yet when you went on like that

You went on like one of the first episodes and it just wasn't not not only that Let me just as a side note the Jubilee thing. They were just like so petrified at how violently retort like with the rhetorical violence that occurred during mine. I don't think they've been able to replicate. I have the superpower, Andrew will be agree, agree. I can get some people to just say and act in ways that they'll never act in any other environment and literally.

They didn't have the word triggered until Charlie was born. Charlie is Charlie. No, I mean, you're a trigger man. Harming upon my daughter. It's like crazy stuff. Anyway, no, Jack, that's I think you're right. Jack is that the format was so I was the first one in that whole thing. And now it's kind of like right passage in American politics.

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with saying this. I think actually like a real facet of being American and you are like more American if you hit this than if you don't is like being frankly being a Protestant actually and having like Protestant Christian like eth, if you will, and that America was founded, again, by this specific, by a pretty narrow specific group of people. It was substantially dissenting Protestants from Northwestern Europe,

and then later other Protestants came on, and then later you had some Catholics from that region, and you get more and more since then. But it's definitely a country that's found on, for lack of a better way of putting it, Protestant values. There's a great book that I recommend to a lot of people. I read it a couple years ago. It's Lone Star by T.R. Farinbach. It's a history of Texas, but it's really a history of America, and it just happens to use Texas as the example. And one of the things he points out is he's pointing out when there's these conflicts between Texas and between

Mexico which happens in, you know, with the Alamo but it happens repeatedly over the course of the 1800s. And he points out that like the key difference between them is civilizational and that the Texans are all Protestants even the Catholic ones and the Mexicans are all Catholics even the Protestants and even the atheists he says it that way and I think there is sort of this ideological component to Americaness so what would kind of Protestant values be I'd say there's a lot of like autonomy there's a lot of-it aloneness like you Protestants love to break away and form your own churches as soon as you disagree on one point of doctrine Do that a lot and that's an American thing

The American thing is it was founded by people who said screw you I'm leaving to go start my own club Way off on another continent and that's why America was actually so awesome Why did America, why the American West get settled? The American West get settled because there was a bunch of people saying screw it I'm leaving to start my own thing. The Spanish Charlie, the Spanish got to America more than a hundred about a hundred years in advance of the English. They conquered Mexico by 1520 that's 90 years before Jamestown is getting off the ground.

Yet it's the Anglos, the English speakers, who are the ones settling into Appalachia, settling into the Great Plains. Why? Because that was, it was basically in their blood to do that. And it's really astonishing when you read about like New Spain in comparison. The Spanish did it in California. It's really astonishing when you read about like New Spain in comparison Spanish The Spanish wants to settle, California They want to settle Texas and they can't get people to do it It only happens when they like take soldiers and practically abduct people and make them go there Meanwhile the English like the British crown one of the reasons the revolution happened was the British crown was trying to stop people from settling Appalachia And they were just going off and doing it anyway over and over American settlers would like run off and start their own

States start their own settlements, and then years later. They would kind of come back and be like hey America Can you come in and like help us out? We're setting setting up states and stuff I just feel like all of that is That is a huge part of the American ethos the American identity I think I Think we do have to be careful though to not separate the identity as well and try to say that it's that you can like import Anyone you know like piece of paper type of creed and say, well, if you just agree with this, you're going to like, like there's, there's plenty of, for example, I tweeted this earlier this week, you know, there's plenty of Protestants in Africa. There's plenty of Protestants in India. You couldn't just import them here and have America be

formed. Like it wouldn't make any sense. So it's true, but you are also talking about, again, the original Anglo-Saxon settlers, and that's who originally founded America. Those are the people that came here. And it's funny, people will be like, oh, Paso Bek, you're like some Polish Ellis Islander. And it's like, yeah, I never once said that like Hamilton has to be a bunch of Pollocks, right? Like, sure, there were Polish people here,

but it was a couple of generals here and there. The vast majority were Anglo-Saxons. And when you see a lot of these ethics, so again, America was founded by the British Empire. And so you just can't separate the people. And I see people trying to do this over and over and over. And I got into it with Curtis Yarvin a little bit because I was saying, like, like, that'd be like that'd be like saying that Rome was just founded on the worship of Jupiter.

And he said, oh, but the Romans did worship Jupiter. I said, no, I get I'm not saying they didn't. What I'm saying is it was founded by the Romans and you couldn't just, you know, put some other group of people there and get the same system out of it. You just wouldn't. So I think it's much more multifaceted than a lot of people want to put into it. Obviously it's changed over time and it's certainly grown and people have assimilated in over time. That's what we're talking about. But if you mess around with that core, if you get too far away from that core, too much too fast, that's what leads to this massive instability that we have. And let's flip it around, right? Talk about what we're dealing with now because we don't

have assimilation now. What we have are these mini-ethnic enclaves that have turned into mini-nations. And you don't have to take my word for it. Go listen to them. They talk about our former country. They talk about our home. They clearly view themselves as part of this, like, greater Somalia or the Somalian diaspora

which has a direct connection to home. And by the way, they do. If you go look at their culture, thanks to technology, you can be on a video, voice chat, or FaceTime with home all day long. Your remittances go back home. So a certain percentage of however much money you make is getting sent back home.

You're consuming media from back home all the time. You're speaking many cases in the same language and you can find, go find me by the way, one of these deport, I've yet to find a deportation video where the people can even speak English. I have yet to see a single one, never once to attack Tom Homan about this, but you can't even find one where people have assimilated enough to speak the language. They go, oh, I've been here for 20 years, 30 years. And why are they not speaking the language? Because they don't have to. Because they're living in these many ethnic enclaves

that exist in our own country. And that's the problem. We're sitting there acting like, oh, these are all Americans. And the Supreme Court's got birthright citizenship. I got to say, that's a separate question. I'm not confident that they are going to overturn birthright citizenship. I just, I'm not confident. I think that's got to be changed probably with the new amendment.

It's not going to happen. We're going to lose that. We're going to lose it. Which is crazy because it's such an open issue. But I do agree. Listen, I do agree with Jack. First of all, I love Catholics. That's well demonstrated. But Catholics did not start America. There was one, there was one significant character to the founding, and it was Charles Carroll, correct. And Maryland, literally the land of Mary, Maryland. Catholic integration came later with the Irish, the Italians.

Well, until the 1600s when the Protestants were killing all the Catholics there. Right, so again, Catholic integration came later, on mid 1800s, with the Italians, the Poles, and the Irish, which is great, I mean, it was a phenomenal contribution. The only difference between the Roman analogy, which I don't love from Curtis Yarvin with Jupiter or Saturn or whatever, is that Catholics and Protestants at least have a baseline belief in Christ our Lord and the incarnation and the inerrancy of scripture. I mean, they have a

shared ethic of ethical monotheism. And so look, but Blake is right. And I know it triggers people like Jack sometimes on social media, Protestant Protestant Protestantism shaped the American ethos, self government, individual liberty, more responsibility, and suspicion of tyranny are all Protestant contributions. And especially my pushback on that is I think that's more Anglo Saxon. Well, yes, I mean, Anglo-Saxon... You can't separate that from Anglo-Saxonism. That was the point I was going to make, right, is that the Anglo-Protestantism blend is why the Protestantism in Africa does not necessarily hold on because the Anglo tradition of... which by the way is a outgrowth, just so we're clear, of Protestantism,

or at least very least Christianity, separation of powers, consent to the governed. You see this in Samuel Rutherford, Lex Rex, who was a Protestant thinker. You see this in Blackstone, who was a Protestant thinker. And again, I'm not here to bash on Catholics, even though there was a huge anti-Catholic sentiment that was widespread among Jefferson, Adams, and Madison, they all viewed the pope and papal supremacy as a threat to the American Republic. But that's fine. I mean, as you all know, the 1774 Quebec Act, which extended Catholic rule in Canada, was cited as one of the intolerable acts leading to the war. And even

Catholics were legally barred from going from office or voting in several colonies. But Charlie, I'm not making that argument. A.K.A. the Pope. No, no, no, I'm not saying you're... I'm like, who are you arguing with? Like, I haven't said that. I said the country was founded by Anglo-Saxons

and Protestantism was circumstantial to that. I disagree with... I mean, no. Yeah, there's an ethos to it. That's not correct. Right, which is Anglo-Saxon. I mean, again... So, in order for that to be correct, again, 55 out of 56 of them were Protestants and they were like fiercely anti- Were they all the same Protestants?

Right? No, that's the whole point of Protestantism, right? Is that there's- Listen. There's Presbyterianism, there is reform, there's Calvinists, there's Congregationalists, there's Quakers, but no, but I mean, again, I just, it's just, I would like Jack to point beyond Charles Carroll that, okay, so I know that Jack is not making the argument that America was founded by Catholics, but you're saying that it was strictly Anglo. Of course, I'm agreeing that

it was Anglo, but you have to acknowledge, Jack, if you're being intellectually fair, the robust Protestantism mixed with Anglo. It was not Anglo at all. If it was only Anglo, then other Anglo colonies that were not Protestant explicitly would have founded great powers. There's something special about that combination that started America. Go ahead, Jack. I cut you off a couple of times. No, I'm not necessarily saying that it's not. I don't want to be very clear about that, nor have I said that anywhere. What I'm saying is that I think a lot of those ethics and those ideals are found in the Anglo-Saxon culture

are found in the Anglo-Saxon culture in general. And, you know, there's a much deeper, you know, there's a much deeper discussion as to say, you know, how much of this arises naturally within the Anglo-Saxons. And that's why Protestantism took off there so much because of this nature of the Anglo-Saxon. And by the way, I say this as a Polak, as a Polak, right? And so it's just something I've noticed. And I suppose you can say it's one or the other. And I don't think you can. I do think you have to say it's both. And it's certainly both,

but it's definitely something that you see in the Anglo-Saxon tradition. If you look at the history of England, if you look at the history of the United Kingdom. No, but I mean, Jack, you would agree. But let me ask you a question. Even before, certainly well before 1500. Do you think in 1700s Catholicism, resistance to tyranny was a Catholic value? I'm not, again, like you're making an argument that I'm not okay. You know the answer is no. And that's fine. I'm not trying to pick pick on Catholics it's that the idea of rejection of tyranny there was literally something called

the Calvinist resist well again there was literally something called the Calvinist resistance theory of course Charles Carroll the Catholic signed on to it but Catholics were far less likely in the 1700s to have a comprehensive theology to reject power. And part of that just came from the overarching supremacy of the Catholic Church. Around that time frame. Of course they were, but there was something I'm saying though that fundamental Catholic ideas and values in the 1700s, and they might have grown

and church teaching has evolved, was Catholic values were not necessarily as articulated resistance to tyranny. Sure, but what Catholic Church were they breaking away from in at that timeframe? The British were already had already broken away writ large. So the Church of England they were coming away from. Sure, fine. I mean, but I guess. It's like you keep bringing up the Catholics but like nobody else is bringing that up okay yeah so again I just the question I have to repeat which is that again yeah there's a lot

going on in the chat do you think that I wasn't resistance to resistance to government tyranny is a Catholic value in the 1700s in the 1700s uh well certainly it was in france okay i don't know enough when they stood up to the french revolution okay i don't think it was catholic setting up the french revolution jack standing up to the revolution fighting fighting against the french revolution yeah i'll let blake i don't know enough about that. Blake will be our historian here. Look, and I'm not even anti-Catholic in this way. I just want to make sure. I don't know, Jack, why you're hesitant to just like give

a hat tip to Protestantism and be like, thank you for this incredible advance. What I'm saying is, from the analysis perspective, I think you can't separate it from the fact that it's the anglo-saxons. That's all I'm saying No, I mean, of course we agree that but I mean the the the pee and the wasps It's a chicken or the egg argument Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're the protestant because they're anglo-saxon or did they act in that anglo-saxon way, but this is very dangerous This is very dangerous to say that you can separate

For for our policies today the way we talk about it. Well, so, interestingly enough, Jack, when I was writing that thing that I started this whole conversation with, I remember thinking like Protestant, and then I took that out and I put Catholic. And that's, I was actually raised Catholic, and so I, but I became, you know, kind of evangelical in college. And so, like, I feel very ecumenical spiritually, right, but I became, you know, kind of evangelical in college. And so like, I feel very ecumenical spiritually, right? Where I feel a part of both worlds. And so-

So do I, and I'm not trying to make it an anti-Promise argument at all. I know you do, I know you do. We've talked about this. Oh no, totally. But so like, and I think it's funny because I actually, I find this, what you guys are talking about,

like infinitely interesting. But I was gonna add something. We were talking about a brand, Charlie and I were talking about a brand that will remain nameless, but we called it spiritually boomer. And I feel like in some ways, what is an American? You just, it's like, you're almost spiritually American.

You know, and I don't necessarily mean Protestant or Catholic, it's like, it's an ethos. It's a way you carry yourself, a way you believe who you obey, who you salute, what you value, what you honor. And I think that, listen, Christians of all stripes are very welcome. And I think once you get outside of that, I think part of the challenge when you're trying to decide what is an American is you have to make it broad enough to something that even everybody on this chat, if we can't all agree what an American is, then we're going to have issues trying to define that as a country.

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So go to Yreify.com. That is Y-R-E-F-Y.com. Let's face it, if you have distressed or defaulted private student loans, there's no better place to go than Yreify. They provide you with a custom loan payment based on your ability to pay. They're not a debt settlement company. So check it out right now at Yreify.com. May not be available in all 50 states. Go to whyrefi.com. That is y-r-e-f-y.com. I totally agree. And Jack, I just want to make one final thing.

What you are appraising as Anglo-Saxon values, after the break with Rome from Henry VIII, it was not just the political break, it was a cultural rebirth. So it was Protestantism that created the Anglo-Saxon values that you're praising. So you go back to the original catalyst, it was this idea of the King James Bible, which of course Tyndale was killed by the Catholic Church for that, the Book of Common Prayer, and Puritan theology. So again, we can go back and forth chicken the egg, but what started Anglo-Saxon values that you appreciate Anglo-Saxon values go back to the break from the Catholic Church. And that happened in the 1500s, 600s. Well, I was, excuse me, predate the Protestant Reformation by quite, quite some time.

No, but the Anglo-Saxon values that you appreciate, which we both I, free speech, common law, separation of powers, all of that was catalyzed and really was put in motion once Henry VIII broke from Rome. That was the breaking point. Why? One example, individual liberty became to be a huge idea once people could then have widespread literacy because of the King James Bible, they started reading,

they started to say, well, I'm made of the image of God and I can govern myself. And so, look, I'm made of the image of God and I can govern myself. So I know it seems like it's chicken and the egg, but to go back to the original source, the source was the separation of the Catholic Church and England. Why would you say public literacy has not been a success then, Jack? You know, there's an interesting school of thought on that I generally like this is not crime need yeah I mean I don't I've never heard the argument that public literacy is bad I mean I might be a Catholic so you can get us the the founders were highly

influenced by Montesquieu who was raised in the Huguenot Catholic tradition. Right? Well, Huguenot is not Catholic. Oh, sorry. You're right. Sorry. I'm reading from Google. I apologize.

That's like, um, Besant. Besant is descended from the Huguenots. Huguenot family, but received a Catholic education. Sorry, that's why I messed that up. Montesquieu was born into a Huguenot family, but received a Catholic education outwardly conformed to Catholicism Yeah, it's it's all complicated I you know so when I brought that up at the start just the the Protestant thing is like what's interesting is if you go 120 years

ago you have European Catholics who get really annoyed with American Catholics because they they literally had a heresy they called Americanism and it was basically being too American in your outlook which was basically like kind of Individualist a little bit like dissident they associated a lot with the theological we would say liberalism of the time but it was different issues than we had today and It caused like the Europeans a lot of angst and it's kind of funny because now you loop it around the other way and Europeans get irritated with the American Catholics

because the American Catholics are often too trad and they're like all dissident and like what do American Catholics do? American Catholics go and they do things like they set up Latin Mass parishes where they like hear the mass in Latin like they don't actually do that in Europe much at all. That's a pretty good point. Yeah. And that's a really good point. Yeah. And you have these really far away from the original topic Yeah, what is an American makes the show great? It's not a religious argument Jack your turn Then what is what is an American and I don't think an American is an inheritor of Protestant values. I

Don't I don't think it's a religious question. I think what do you think it is Jack general? Yes Protestant value limited government Protestant value rule of law Protestant value work ethic individual liberty, Protestant value, limited government, Protestant value, rule of law, Protestant value, work ethic and thrift, Protestant value, self-governance, all of which come from Anglosaxon. You can launder them through Anglo-Saxon, but if you peel back the layers to its core, to the seed, to the birth, to the beginning, it's Protestantism. And everyone has benefited from that, including Catholics. So what does it mean to be an American? This is also why the Reformation tended to be more successful geographically. Like it was the anglo-saxon culture that led the Protestant Reformation, for example.

Yes, that's why Eastern and Southern Europe is still predominantly Catholic. Well. Because I would argue, by the way, in the same token, that the Polish culture, like I'm from, is inherently more communal, which tends towards more Catholicism. Of course it is. No, I mean, there are downsides to overindulging in the idea of individual initiative and liberty. Hungary's amazing, obviously. No one here is anti some of the beauty of Catholicism, but there is something special here. We're asking, what is an American, not what is a Hungarian, right? And that's a different question. And we just have to be honest.

Again, we're not going to come to some conclusion is that the founding fathers drew from a tradition all the way back from the Magna Carta to the Mayflower Complex, to the Declaration, to the Constitution, a through line. And the catalytic event was when all of a sudden, there was a separation from Rome, King James Bible, mass literacy.

People read for themselves. And they said, well, if we can read for ourselves, we can grow for ourselves. We can work for ourselves. We can now toil for ourselves. Why can't we rule ourselves? And that sequencing of thinking started upon the separation of blind obedience to Rome.

And that is what built the West, I rest my case. I have a different way to phrase this one, and Jack, I still wanna hear your answer. I mean, there's plenty of non-blind obedience to Rome prior to the founding of America. I mean, there's wars, there's all sorts of things that happen.

So, Jack, I have a question for you. Is Mom Donnie, Zoran Mom Donnie, is he an American, is he not an American, and why? No, he's not American. And why? Why is he not American? It's quite simple. It's everyone knows what American is. And he's he's he's so far beyond any any of the like what Charlie and I are getting into, which was a great conversation, by the way, but it's very parochial, right? We're still talking about vastly speaking, the European Christian tradition and certainly

the Anglo Protestant tradition and Anglo Protestant people, the British Empire, right? Because that's who who was who, the British Empire, right, because that's who ran the British Empire, founded America. So the British Empire founds America. America breaks free, becomes a nation state, and yet you got this Zoro-Mandami who is from a completely separate, completely disconnected nation, because the question is what is a nation? A nation is made up of its people. And so, yes, Charlie is 100% correct in saying that is the nation that comprised America at its founding. There are also other nations. Mexico was a separate nation. So there's this idea of magic dirt that anyone can just magically come to America and transform into America. And it's just not true. You

know, this is the difference between being American, like for real versus being an American on paper. So is he on paper and American in terms does he have legal citizenship? Of course, the same way that in Rome, you could have legal citizenship as a Roman, but it didn't necessarily make you a real Roman. If you were not actually a Roman, and it's just as simple as that. And by the same token, I would say Omar Fattah is not an American. He is a member of a different nation. With all of these multi-layers combined is the argument that I'm making.

So yes, it's cultural. Yes, it has to do with where you're from. Yes, it has to do with religion. It has to do with your ideas. It has to do with all of these things writ large. Can you become an American? Can people become an American? Yes.

But it is a multi-generational product. has to do with your ideas, has to do with all of these things writ large. Can you become an American? Can people come in American? Yes. But it is a multi-generational product. It's not something that can be a project. It's not something that can be done with just a piece of paper. We have to get going here. We only have a couple of minutes left. Andrew, I'll throw it to you if you want to play a couple of pieces of tape here.

Yeah, I want to. So this is why I was asking that, Jack, is because this Med media song clip has gone viral. This is a white guy They frame it as far right, but I'll let you be the judge for 66 This is him saying he is a Native American and I think Maddy Hassan is shocked by a white guy saying that for 66 I don't know where you're at in the UK. You're from India. So I don't know. I'm not from India Oh, you sorry your parents are from India. So I'm gonna have your own state. I'm an American, you know, you're an American citizen Okay, fair're from India, so I don't really... I'm not from India. Oh, sorry, your parents are from India, so you have your own states. I'm an American, you know. You're an American citizen?

Okay, fair enough. I don't know how you got that, but fair enough. Here's the thing. Are you an American citizen? Absolutely. Okay. Not sure how you got that, but okay. Born here.

Okay. Born here in my family lineage as settlers from the 1500s, so I have some stake in the claim here, okay? But you're a descendant of immigrants. Settlers. Colonialists. Yeah, colonials. You don't look very Native American to me.

I am Native American. Whites are Native Americans. What are you talking about what are you talking about whites are native americans really charlie i mean well first of all i love the applause in some ways it's just like well um because i wasn't i wasn't anticipating that so look if you look at it if you look at the technical part of america yeah, I mean, he is native to America. Yes, that's correct. Now, if you're talking about natives prior to the founding of America, they also could

be called indigenous people or whatever. And so look, I mean, the more important question is not the question of who technically is an American. I think Jack is correct on this. No one's interested in the paperwork question. Like, okay, great. The question is what is this thing that we're trying to uphold? And it is wrought with a lot of people getting angry over it and getting fired

up and I would love the chance to sit down with Mr. Hassan at some point, Mr. is that his name? Mendy Hassan? We could work on that. Um, I would. Mehdi Hassan. I would love the chance to sit down with Mr. Hasan at some point. Mr. Is that his name? Mendy Hasan? We could work on that. Mehdi Hasan? I would. He's a, he's a.

Mehdi Hasan? He's a total radical. Jack knows his bio better than I do. Jack's got the receipts on Mehdi. He's quite radical. Well, by the way, Mehdi Hasan also claims to be a native British. Yeah. Yeah.

Because brown people can be native to anywhere. Only whites have no. White people aren't allowed to be native to anywhere only whites have no native right? Yeah. Yeah, this is this is this is interesting because I want to contrast this in our final minute here with what we don't have to play the clip but Matt Walsh went after Maria Elvira Salazar who's a Republican out of Miami she's Cuban I believe she's born in America, right? Am I wrong? Am I wrong? In Miami. Yeah. Born in Miami. Still has a very thick Hispanic accent, Latin accent, she's a Republican, former TV anchor. And Matt Walsh is coming under some fire for saying

to Porter, she's not an American. So he's saying she's not American. But when I see that clip, it feels completely different. Now, we have blasted Maria Elvira Salazar for her soft amnesty push, probably more than anybody else, actually. But I would say, Cubans, the ones that have come to America, and largely are in Florida, they embody an American ethos to me.

When I look at it, they're grateful. Our Secretary of State is Cuban. Yeah, exactly. Marco Rubio is 10 out of 10. They embody an American ethos to me. Like when I look at it, they're grateful. Our Secretary of State is Cuban. Yeah, exactly. Marco Rubio is 10 out of 10. They're grateful. They love markets. They love the Constitution, the rule of law.

They're anti-tyrant. I mean, they have so much about them that I love and that I naturally feel kinship with. And so again, it's sort of like, what is an American? It's not necessarily, I even wrote in my little thing. I didn't read that part, but it's most likely you're white. I mean, just by stats, by history, yeah, white probably helps be an American. But if you're not white, don't be antagonistic to those who are. And don't be bitter about it. Be grateful to live in the country. I think those things matter still,

right? And I guess, you know, if you go down certain rabbit holes online, that wouldn't fly. For me, it does, especially when I look at the Cuban community in Miami. But I would say, like, in general, we have to, I would love to see us do an immigration moratorium. We got to deal with how many we've had come in this country who are not American and yet they're living here. They're walking around us and they don't represent kinship or community or brotherhood from a nation standpoint. We got to dash everybody.

Just as a reminder though, I do want to reiterate, we're not saying that being an American is inherently anything racial We actually reject that we are saying though that it's more than just paperwork and it's more than just a set of ideas I think that it's very good to ask and you know, just ask the question this semester You know, hey, not only what is a woman but what what is an American? Something to think about. What do you think an American is? Email us, freedom at CharlieKirk.com and subscribe to our podcast.

God bless you guys. Keep committing thought crimes and don't you dare step foot on a Carnival cruise. Talk to you soon. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always, freedom at CharlieKirk.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.