The Charlie Kirk Show - Trump Raids Ilhan Omar + What Really Disqualifies Talarico

Episode Date: October 12, 2026

The feds raided the home of Ilhan Omar this morning. The team dives into why and whether we can hope that America's most anti-American congresswoman might have to actually leave America. Plus, the Internet went bonkers over the weekend debating about why James Talarico vanished from the campaign trail. The show focuses on what remains most important: It's Talarico's political positions that show he's nuts, not his medical history. Alex Marlow, Jesse Kelly, and Matthew Peterson join. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!    Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You've got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a turning point USA college chapter. Go start a turning point you would say high school chapter.

Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life and I encourage you to do the same. Here I am. Lord mused me. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go.

Noble gold investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with noble gold investments at noble gold investments.com. That is noble gold investments.com. All right. Happy Monday morning, October 12, 2026. My Dodgers lost yesterday, but it's still a happy morning because there's just so much news going on. Blake, how are we doing? Oh, we're doing splendid. Yeah, well, Blake beef with the Pope this weekend. Oh, that wasn't great. You don't want to feel proud about doing that but of course he was commenting on the planned execution of major hasan yeah and i i disagree

with his take which is definitely a dicey position for catholic to be in i yeah i mean you are you are a very devoted catholic and you know to publicly come out against that's interesting we'll get into that probably in a little bit uh but yeah the breaking news this monday morning here from the y refi studios in phoenix arizona is that ilhan omar's house has been rated her DC home. This was a moment that we never ever thought was going to happen. Nobody has the guts to do this, right? A sitting congresswoman, a Muslim sitting congresswoman at that, but here you go. You are looking at images from this morning of HSI from the DHS. They are investigating this. They are

looking into it. So the question is, what? What are they looking into? Now, we know because Tom Homan has said he doesn't want to get ahead of Todd Blanche, obviously the Attorney General, that this is a DOJ matter that he doesn't want to race ahead, but he did confirm there is an active investigation going on. And there's a lot of speculation about what it could be. They are mum at this point, so we'll have to speculate. So here are the four guesses. She's either getting investigated for one, immigration, citizenship, paperwork, fraud on her childhood entry and naturalization. We want that so bad. That would be, I think, the best one.

This is the explanation given by sources close to the investigation. Agents are likely looking for evidence of material misrepresentation about family relationships, circumstances of a rival or other details on forms filed by her father. Proven fraud and naturalization can support, guess what, denaturalization proceedings. Which I will note, this administration, it doesn't get as much attention. They have tried far harder to actually denaturalize people who engage. in fraud to get citizenship. That used to be a one person per presidential term. They've actually done this. I think they've initiated it on several hundred, maybe thousands of people. Yeah, yeah. I looked it up thousands, which by the way, I understand the pushback is going to be,

well, that's not enough. Well, we don't have the resources to do much more, but we have to start doing this and we need to get more resources involved. And it's a huge, huge new development. All right. So that's theory one, immigration paperwork. Number two, a broader immigration. fraud allegations, including the longstanding theory, and it is just a theory about the brother marriage claim. Okay. Homan previously referenced marriage fraud possibilities. So this is Tom Homan, borders are. Those specific older claims have been denied by Omar, let's just be clear, treated as unproven by many fact checkers. So if you look at Snopes or any of these types, they're going to say, you know, it's not, it's not proven. This is a conspiracy theory.

but they could face potential statute of limitation issues because it happened so long ago, right? But the current probe appears focused on the original childhood paperwork. So theory number two, I'm going to say the married her brother claim is probably not what this is about. Unfortunately, I've looked into that. I think a lot of people say that might just be past statute of limitations by now. I would love it if they could find the truth about that. Even if they can't charge it, if they just say this happened by the way, that would be a big way. that would be a big win.

Yeah. Theory number three, financial related issues or family matters. Omar has faced scrutiny over large swings in reported personal finances and disclosures and has been linked to criticism of Minnesota fraud scandals involving the Somali community. So there's been a longstanding suspicion, and it's just a suspicion. I can't prove it, but maybe the DOJ or HSI can, that all of that fraud that we saw on the same thing,

Somali community that Nick Shirley helped expose that so many others helped expose at City Journal and Daily Wire that potentially she might be wrapped up in some of that. Well, let's remember she had her net worth reported at $6 to $30 million. And then when that got noticed, she came out and said, oh, no, no, that's $100,000. Revise it down. Yeah. And one wonders if she in a kind of dumb way was trying to distract from maybe something, another person on her staff, someone preparing her paper. work divulged a little more than they were supposed to.

Yeah. And she basically, she puts it on her husband, this new husband that she has, that he's some sort of investment guy or whatever, and that's how they got their network. But then they revised it down. So none of it makes sense. But this is very Somali. It's like the most Somali thing ever to just sort of like, oh, what's accounting? What are, what's a CPA?

We don't do that where I'm from. So anyways, that's very interesting. Okay. Now the fourth theory would be from the critics of the trumpet. they're going to claim that this is just political targeting, that this is selective enforcement, okay? And roughly three weeks before the midterms, a lot of people are claiming that this is midterm interference. They're trying to gin up votes for the midterm, and Omar's status as a frequent target of President Trump's criticism will be their proof. I have also given her frequent criticisms.

A lot of conservatives do, because have you ever heard this woman talk? it's like nails on a chalkboard absolutely the most investigate that crime that is a crime that is a crime against humanity in and of itself so that those are the four theories immigration paperwork from childhood entry

and naturalization which is probably the answer this is what some of the behind the scene sources have leaked out some of the reporting we've seen so let's hope that's what is they want to find that because that's the only way you can denaturalize and that's like the white whale if you could actually denaturalize, strip the citizenship from Ilhan Omar because her arrival here was fraudulent from the start,

and then she used it to feed into crime schemes that we know a lot of Somali immigration rings are involved in. It would be tremendous, not just for its own state, because she's a radical, anti-American, pro-various terrorist groups, congresswoman. But it would also be a win because I think it would be so high profile, it would really force. people to reckon with. What we have with our immigration system, which is there are entire, you know, thousands of people who have like a lot of assibia with each other, a lot of camaraderie within their groups, they can coordinate aggressively to exploit our system, which is built for people being fundamentally pretty individualistic and fundamentally honest. And there are just a lot of people around the world who are not like that. And America's a feeding frenzy for groups like

that. That's how they end up going. Yeah. They come in and they just say, okay, you start, you start this fake daycare, you start this fake Medicaid, this travel company, this travel company for transporting people. You have this other fake, you know, home care business. Bam, bam, bam, bam. We can put them all in this building. You can get tons of money. Let's listen to CNN here. They're freaking out about this raid.

They just can't believe it. You can't do this to one of ours. Satu. Learning that federal officers have conducted a search and did so early today at the home of Democratic. Congresswoman Elon Omar. It appears to be some level of an immigration investigation, but it is quite notable. It's in the middle of an election season and that this is a sitting member of Congress running for re-election. It is a policy that the Department of Justice needs to take a lot of precautions in the 60 days before an election. We are well into that. We are not even

a month away. It is unusual for the Justice Department to make such a, what they would call, an overt investigative step. All right. It is unusual, but let's just be clear. They had to get a warrant for this. So they submitted their evidence to a magistrate who signed off on this. Okay, so that was the breaking story this morning. It was like Christmas in October or was it Halloween? It, you know, with Ilhan Omar, let's go with Halloween theme. Uh, because, you know, it just feels fitting. Anyways, that's the breaking news. She's getting rated. We think it's about paperwork issue, which could lead to a denaturalization process being pursued with her, which I think it would be great for the whole country. There was a clip, and we're going to get into this with Jesse Kelly in just a few minutes here,

but there was a clip of El-Sayed saying, hey, America, it's America's obligation to open the borders and all the stuff. And I would just admit to you, are we a stronger country because we have Abdul El-Said, because we have Hassan Piker, because we have Ilhan Omar, because we have Mamdani. Are we a stronger country are we weaker? Send us your emails. Yeah. I mean, I assume I know the answer, but I want to hear your thoughts on this because we have railed against immigration on this show, probably more than any other topic because it, as Blake aptly said, it is the fix everything switch. And it is absolutely insane because our founders never envisioned this. They never envisioned a country where we're having to make peace and make a, like there is a tweet from Ilhan Omar talking about the rule of law in

23 going after President Trump. Imagine the absolute demoralization campaign that it takes for us to get lectured by a Somali about the rule of law, a country that has none. Not merely just, but not merely lectured. Like, they will lecture you and then have a totally different understanding of what that means from two, two and a half centuries of American experience. Yeah. We see this that you'll have like Primalogia Apal and all these other like, you know, radical lefties. They'll come in and then not only are they on the. the far left of our political spectrum. What that manifests as is they're actually like much more

willing to restrict speech, very radical about wanting to restrict the right to bear arms, very radical about wanting to restrict the economy. They want to bring in like a socialized economy, very much associated with countries that they originated from, the views of people they came from, and not in line with the American experience that made us the country they wanted to move to in the first place. Yeah. Well, and we're going to get in this Talrico story here in just a second, but I got to play this clip because she is just, like I said, nails on a chalkboard, listen to her. And she's so arrogant because that's just the way she is. She's just a peach.

Stop five. No, I mean, and I listen, suggest all you want. Please investigate all you want, right? Oh, okay. Well, I guess they took her up on that. Investigate all you want. She says she's not worried about it. She's, you know, the right wing always has this.

S-I-H-S-H-I whatever going on. So I'm not that worried about. Okay, she's not worried about it. We'll see where it plays out. I'm not even saying she did anything wrong. I'm saying if she doesn't mind the investigation, she said to investigate all you want. Good for Todd Blanche.

Good for H-S-I. Let's see where it leads. The other story, however, is Tal-Riko. Tal-Riko went missing, M-I-A-Tau-RICO. This was hilarious. Okay, so then he shows up at the Austin City Limits, which is a big, you know, music festival, tech kind of scene in Austin.

and he just kind of shows up. You know, we had Mark Alpert on on Friday, and he was like, well, he could be setting the stage for some big reveal, like jumping out of a cake somewhere. He raised $40 million or something. Yeah, exactly, some, like huge thing. Well, no, that's not what it was. He just kind of showed up, and then he was speaking with a reporter about where he'd gone.

Here's his answer. SOT 7. You were off the campaign for more than a week, roughly nine days, I believe. Your campaign said you had to flu. What happened? Yeah, I got the flu, and I'm feeling much better. and I'm glad I had a chance to recover. I just went to my primary care physician,

but it wasn't anything worse than a nasty case of the flu. Conservative folks on Twitter and some of Paxton's alley were pushing the idea that you had a stress-induced episode and we're getting treatment for it. What are your thoughts? Did that happen? That's not true. I just had the flu and I feel much better. But it's a good reminder that you can't believe everything you read on the Internet.

All right. So this is the other thing I want to hear from the audience here. and see if there's emails coming in right now. I'm assuming they are. Freedom at Charlie Kirk.com. If you were out for nine days, and basically it was like, there's some people saying he's essentially been MIA for 12, really.

I think he sort of, but we'll say nine, just to be conservative, but some say 12, some say two weeks, whatever you want to say. But let's say nine. If you were out for nine days with the flute, is that what you look like after nine days? Or do you look gaunt and famished?

I mean, not to say that the guys ever looked not gone, So that's part of the problem here. The guy hasn't been eating meat for a number of years. He wanted to beat meat. That was his slogan, according to President Trump at least. Oh, yeah. So the point is you go into the flu, you have this flu, your hold up. Is that what you look like?

Or is something else going on here? Now, so I accidentally waited into this on X last night. And I just said, listen, guys, regardless of whether he was at a mental health facility or not, You don't bail on your campaign for almost two weeks, probably the biggest job interview of your life, and not find that disqualifying. Now, that being said, we have to tell the audience what happens. So over the weekend, there was some folks on X that suggested that they had proof that he had actually flown to Cincinnati to a mental health facility. Well, the mental health facility is now saying, they're denying that. They're saying straight up, that didn't happen.

He never was served here. But here's the issue. the whole campaign handled this so hamfistedly that we don't really know what the story is unless you're just inclined to believe James Talrico. Do you guys believe this explanation that it was the flu? Do you think something else is going on here? It was very, very strange, Blake, and you are not a conspiracy theorist. You are contrarian to every conspiracy theory.

But you have to at least admit it was handled bizarrely. It was weird. So what stands out is it is weird. You just don't see candidates disappear for as long as he did. Now, even Mark Halper, And I was saying, there's a lot of potential explanations. So he could be secretly fundraising somewhere it looks bad. It could be a somewhat ambitious strategy of they think when he's out there more, it hurts him.

Whereas when the focus is more on Paxton, it hurts Paxton. So you want more of a focus on him. Joe Biden's strategy. Another possibility. And I talked to Dave Weigel at Semaphore, a good reporter that we're friends with. And he threw out the possibility that maybe they really, he was maybe better by nine days or so. And that's when people started talking about it. And they thought, let's let this play out.

They might hurt themselves by overreaching here. all of that was possible. And I think people fixated on one potential interpretation that was really, really salacious and dramatic, which, if true, I mean, you would understand why people would want to run with that. But I don't know that actual hard proof has been forthcoming yet. It was all the speculation on the internet about was there a plane that Reid Hoffman set up, the taken from Austin to Ohio? We don't know any of that. We can't prove any of that. But we can say that it would be a HIPAA violation of this mental health facility to admit either way. Gigantic.

Yeah. So whatever happened, they have one move here. Their one move is to deny, deny, deny, get the heck out. C-YA. Abort, abort, abort. So even if it's true, they would be fools to allow any of that in the public. They have publicly said it didn't happen. Okay.

We just know that it would be a hippo-violet. It was worded strangely. Got to get the wording. we'll do that in the other side so we have questions we don't have answers but here's where we can sum it up you shouldn't be bailing on a campaign even with the flu do a phoneer and be like i'm hold up oh guys i'm really down low like just do a phoneer just get your voice out there nine days nine days it was really like 12 though like to be and then he just shows up walking around at ACL it's very strange very strange in my opinion disqualifying it shows the type of campaign and by the way

all those staffers that handled this so poorly, they're going to be staffed in his office if he gets elected senator. So that's also another disqualifying element here. All right, without further ado, I'm so glad to have this guest on. Jesse Kelly, I, Jesse, you're the host of the nationally syndicated Jesse Kelly show. You are an awesome talent when it comes to commentary. One of my favorite ex follows because you just have a way with words, my friend. You just tell it like it is.

And it's a, please check him out. Jesse Kelly, D.C., but you're not in D.C. anymore. You're in Texas, but that's all right. Jesse, there's so much going on, but why don't we just, I'll, I, we just cover the Talrico thing, kind of sum it up from your perspective. I mean, it's a huge race in your state. What do you make of it? All the rumors going around and his explanation.

Well, his explanation is not good. And there is no explanation that's good. I mean, everybody who watches this wonderful show understands this because we're all political nerds. but the last month before an election is obviously the most critical month. I know that's not exactly breaking news. I ran for Congress and lost twice, but I was the Republican nominee. And I'm telling you, I didn't see my family for a month.

You don't hardly sleep. It's all, you get fat because it's all fast food because it's event after event, after fundraise. It is breakneck speed the last month. And that was for a congressional race, a race in the House. The Senate has 100 seats. They call it the most exclusive club in the world. James Talariko, whatever poll you want to believe, appears to have a shot at winning one of those seats.

You don't take 12 days off under any circumstances if that's the case. If you so happen to get the flu, if that whole lie is actually true, if you got the flu, your donors, your campaign staff would pay the finest doctors in America to rally around you and have you pumped so full of flu? and antibiotics because they would know 24 48 hours has got to be back out there. We don't have time for this. You don't go and nurse a tummy for 12 days. So I don't know the total truth of what happened, but I know the flu is a bunch of crap. I know something's going on here, Jesse. I totally agree. You don't nurse a tummy ache James Talrico for nine, 12 days, whatever the number

is. It was basically 12. Here's what I can't figure out. Jesse, why doesn't he pick up the phone and start phoning in at radio shows and just being like, hey, I'm super under the weather, got this flu, but nothing's going to hold me back. I'm calling in. You know, if I got to take an emergency trip to the bathroom, sorry, guys, but I'm not, I'm leaving nothing out on the field. I'm going, I'm going.

None of that. No warrior spirit, no nothing. Something doesn't make sense here. I mean, it's possibly he could just have been like literally not able to walk or something for a while. Then getting the phone next to his head. Anyways, I'm 45 years old. I've been sick many times in my life. I'm not a naturally sickly person,

but we've all, after so much time, been sick. I've never been down for 12 days. I've never been down for 12 days with anything ever in my life. And the problem for Team Tala Rico right now is the only explanation that makes sense is the explanation that he was checked into a facility. It's the only explanation that makes sense. The flu doesn't make sense. Nothing else checks all the boxes of making sense.

I don't know that we have or even we're. going to have final black and white confirmation of what actually happened. But the problem is the only believable thing that explains disappearing. And like Blake said, you can't call in. Why wouldn't you be able to call in? Or even if you've got the flu, you could even tell the host, because it would be a friendly host. Hey, I'm sure his name would be Gavin or something. Hey, Gavin. I'm a little under the weather. Could you keep it to a question or two? Because then I have to go puke or something. You could do that. But nothing, disappearing. That does not happen. never seen it. I've followed politics for 20 years of my life like a total nerd. I have never

seen or heard of anything like that in my life ever. Yeah, this is unprecedented. I've never seen anything like this. And you have you have very veteran campaign strategists that are going all over the news saying nobody's ever seen anything like this. And so my point is I don't really care what the explanation is. This is a clue for voters to see how this man would run his life, his office, the Senate office for Texans. It just screw off for a couple of weeks. And by the way, he's the main guy. Remember when the whole house in Texas was trying to avoid legislating and they got out of

Dodge? He was one of the main spokesmen. He has now a trend, a history of just kind of going away, leaving, leaving the scene. That's what happens. So to me, it doesn't really matter. Now, the other big story this morning is Ilhan Omar. She's getting rated by HSI. I saw you comment on this clip, Jesse.

So I'm just going to, it's from Abdul-El-Sayed, but to me, Ilhan and Abdul, they're all the same part of the same blob. So I'm going to play this and get your reaction to it. Sot 11. We've also got to make sure that in this state, we are not discriminating by documentation status. Right now, if you're undocumented, you don't get access to a driver's license. So you're stuck. You don't get access to a lot of the basic things the state offers everybody else.

And I think that's ridiculous. And so we've got to stop discriminating that way. And I also believe that we've got to make sure that if we're honest and serious about empowering our immigrant communities, then we've got to put some money behind making sure that folks have the access to be able to train in their profession of choice, to be able to get re-licensed to do what they do here in the United States, and invest in basic things like English language training. Would refugees be a part of this plan? Absolutely.

We as a country, I believe, owe it to the world to open our doors. Oh, okay. So Egyptian summer boy with the United Arab Emirates vacation home that advocates for Sharia law tells us, Jesse, that it is our obligation to the world to open up the doors to the third world. Your take. Well, I've said many times before that politics, you know, winning in politics, it involves a lot of boring, unsexy things. You know, we care about the latest Senate race and everyone cares about the presidency. but who's on your school board? You know, I've talked about that a million times.

There's a million unsexy things that have to be done knocking on doors and things like that before you actually win in politics. There's no magic bullet. I've said that many times before, no one thing. But I don't know that I'm 100% correct about that because immigration really is that one thing. And people can choose to believe or not believe that, but the communist will tell you that all day, every day. It's not an accident. It's happening in the UK. It's happening in France.

It's happened in Germany. It's happening across formerly maybe, hopefully not, Christian-based Western civilization. And we remember what Joe Biden and the communists surround him did with four years, 20 to 25 million. The communist believes this is the magic bullet. And if you look at the way these things happen, the way people vote when they come in, the way they continue to expand, the communist is probably correct. With the mass importation of foreigners, we cannot possibly stop the communist revolution. They will succeed. With the mass deportation of foreigners, the communist.

cannot win. The Democrat Party is a 20% party. They're not 55. They're not 45. They're not even 30. They're a 20% party. And you know this because they take the 20% side of virtually every single issue. So what explains that? 20% side of every single issue. Yet there are roughly half of the House, roughly half of the Senate, coin flip midterms. What explains that? It explains that that they brought in millions and millions of foreign barbarians. And those are their new constituency. The Democrats do not have a domestic constituency anymore. They have a few domestic idiots who believe that they're still on their side. But the Democrat Party as a whole has completely moved away from Americans.

They are the party exclusively of foreigners. Yeah, you mentioned how critical it is. It's not even just that Biden threw open the gates. I think it's worth reminding people the last three months before the 24 election. You can look this up. There's stories that they were trying to just rubber stamp as many citizenship applications as they could in the lead up to that election, not just so they could vote in that election, but because then they could vote in every subsequent election.

In Spain, the government there, unpopular, headed for defeat. What did they do this year? They passed amnesty for hundreds of thousands. Might end up being over a million people ultimately, just waived them in. In France, you have the far left. They're teaming up with these extremely radical children of immigrants. They're rioting against the government.

He openly says my goal is to abolish, like, the historical character of France, creolization, he calls it. It is, they are one in the same, this like global third world ideology. It really is to overthrow the West. I think a lot of them would gloat about this in their private meetings. Of course. Yeah, I mean, I'll never forget that SPLC guy that on, you know, he did that interview. And on the background, there was that poster, like, gloating about the, the, that was the decline of the white population over the years.

And when they get asked about this, they say, well, we think it's important because we believe as that number goes down. down there will be more far right and white supremacist agitation. Yeah. Jesse, it is. Yeah. They know they have to lie about that for the most part. Now, every now and then they get caught on camera talking about it. But I mean, you'll hear even, quote, moderate, even though that doesn't not a thing anymore,

moderate Democrats out there just openly say, my number one goal is amnesty for 10 million. My number one goal is amnesty for 15 million. And these people are not compassionate. It's not because they have some kind of heart for clear. click from Nigeria. They have no heart for anyone else whatsoever. They understand all of them. The media understands this as well. Hollywood understands this. If you are a communist in any part of Western civilization, you understand instinctively that the mass importation of foreigners means you will win. And you understand that domestic patriots are your enemy. So what do you have to do?

What do you do with any opposing army would do? You bring in reinforcements. And that's why we are where we are. Yeah. Well, and by the way, I just want the audience to know, if you are blackpilled, if you're dooming because of Iran or something like that, I just suggest you give, was it David Beer from the Cato Institute of Follow on social media? Oh, yeah. Oh, follow that guy. The guy just came out with this new graph, Jesse, that shows that the Trump administration has cut legal immigration by even more than they've cut illegal immigration. Why is that so important? Legal immigration is just as damaging as illegal immigration, the mass importation of foreigners doesn't suddenly become wonderful just because some scumbag in Washington, D.C. decides it should be legal. This country has been

ripped away from the hands of the American worker and handed to foreigners, undercutting wages, taking away jobs. That's why we're seeing the destruction of the middle class and rising prices, by the way. You want to get prices down. You want to solve, at least in large part, almost every problem in our society. Get 100 million barbarians out of the country. This is why this is why you're on the show, Jesse. I love it. You tell it like it is. Host of the nationally syndicated Jesse Kelly show. You can follow them on X, and I recommend you do it, Jesse Kelly, D.C.

But you got to change your handle, Jesse. It's Jesse Kelly TX, I think, is what you need to go for. But that's all right. You're in Houston, right? That area, you're based around there. You got the fall. I am in Houston. And so, yes, even though it's lovely fall weather for other people, it's still 88 degrees, feels like 150.

So that is what it is. We don't have the humidity, though. We don't have the humidity, though. Lots of immigrants coming into Houston, man. You got, I mean, it's a problem. Houston's getting overrun. Anyways. All right. So there's so many things I want to get your opinion on Jesse. But I want to start with the movement and then I want to go into feminism if we can find the time. Because there's only two fix everything switches, immigration and feminism, like beating both of those back. All right. But the movement has been in disarray, obviously since we lost Charlie, which is something we think about a lot here. But I noticed that you blocked somebody that, you know, he'll interact with me on my tweets. I've never met him in person, but that was Joel Berry. And I thought it was an interesting kind of choice from you to make because you just said, hey, I'm done doing this back and forth with certain people, personalities on the on X or whatever. You know, when the $20 burrito thing went viral, it was actually Joel Barry replying to my $20 burrito tweet that really poured jet fuel on it. So I'm grateful for that anyways.

So kind of explain where you're at right now. It makes sense of where the movement's at and kind of the choices you're making about moving forward. Well, look, I'm a big believer in cutting people off. I'm 45 years old and something I've learned in life. We're all supposed to be accepting and be this and be that. And don't get me wrong, you want to have a kind Christian heart and all those things. But there's something that I have discovered in my 45 years on this planet. And that's that you need to cut people out of your life.

And if you do that, if you cut people out of your life, you will be happier. Your life will be better. There is no human being. This is not about anyone's specific person. There's no human being on the planet, not family members, certainly not someone on social media. Nobody is allowed to be a net negative on my life. Have you contributed to my life in some way? Have you in any way made my life positive?

You better weigh the debits and credits on that because if I look and I think you're a net negative. then you're gone immediately. And this most definitely applies. Look, I do this in real life. I block people's phone numbers. This is how I work. And it most definitely applies to social media where it's really an online thing. We're not, we're not interacting. We're not breaking bread. We're not doing Thanksgiving together. So you have virtually, unless we are friends, unless we've talked like acquaintances, you have virtually no wiggle room to mildly annoy me. People think when I block people, I try to block, I try to block 10 to 20 people a day. That's a goal.

But it's not that you have to anger me. I'm not angry about things people say on there. If you mildly annoy me for any reason, I will block you immediately. And I have never, not one time, I don't know how many it's been thousands of them. Not one time have I ever thought afterwards that was a mistake or maybe a month later, even remember that person's name and thought, well, I wish I had them back in my life. Not one time. I block as often as possible. My life is great for it.

Well, no, and I can appreciate it on a personal level. You know, given the whole thing, you know, we're building a turning point, we're trying to put together a coalition, a winning coalition. What's your take on the state of the movement, right? You've got these sort of accelerationists that are saying, hey, go vote Democrat. And you've got the dissidents that are very unhappy, even when we're putting up Ws. They're very unhappy about, let's say, Iran or whatever. I share some of those frustration, certainly.

But then, you know, how do we manage that where there's all these disparate streams in the movement and these factions within the movement and trying to build something that can actually win an election? And what's your take on the state of the movement right now? I think right now, if from the outside looking in or I guess you're not on the outside, if we're just looking at it right now, but it looks like, wow, everyone's at each other's throats. And like you mentioned, there's this faction and this faction of people who argue about everything from Ukraine to taxes, to immigration. immigration to Israel, to did, all this endless stuff. And you look at it and you think to yourself, while the movement's hopelessly divided, I don't necessarily look at it that way. I try to zoom out as often as humanly possible. And what we have right now is the leader of the, I don't know if we're going to call it conservative movement, America First movement, Donald Trump, the guy who has been

the big cheese for over a decade, that's a very long time to be the big cheese in a movement, his time is almost done. And like any king historically who is sick and on his deathbed, it's not when he dies. The second he goes down with the sniffles, the fighting begins over who is going to inherit the kingdom. And there are a lot of people with a lot of different coalitions, a lot of different goals,

who are wanting a big seat at the table or to sit at the head of the table when Donald Trump finally goes away. And what? What do we have? Two and a half years left. And so right now, all this is, it's a big succession fight. That's all this is. And I don't stress it because we'll fight and people will throw poop at each other. And look, like I said, as long as you're not

personally rude to me, I don't care what opinion you have. You can disagree with me. That's fine. I'll disagree with you. As long as you're not rude, I don't give a crap. So we'll throw monkey poop at each other for the next two and a half years and then we'll have a Republican nominee. And most of this stuff will quiet down. Yeah, I think that's a really healthy way to look at it. You know, a lot of people, and I will tell you this at Turning Point, we get a lot of incoming. If we put if you know some some ex person is on our speaker graphic or why person shows up at a campus and it's like we're trying listen you in the movement you can have your factionalism you can fight and throw monkey poop as you call it at each other our role is a little bit different we have to

be thinking about how do we how do we keep some semblance of a coalition together but i think that's super healthy and people need to get back to a point where they disagree and it doesn't have to be so personal or you don't have to call somebody evil right for every little disagreement if you're anti-communist, if you're right on immigration, if you're right on a number of things, if you love this country, I'm good. I'm good. I can have that conversation with you. Where do you think it's going to all end up, Jesse? I think we're going to end up just fine, and I think we're going to win in the end. And I need to be clear when I say that I'm not saying we're going to win in the midterms. I don't know that. I mean, probably up against some serious headwinds here. I'm not even saying

we're going to win in 2028. I'm not saying that. I think that in the end, I think that we, we anti-communists, We will come together enough. We're always going to fight. I think we're going to come together enough and we're going to defeat the communists. I do. Now, a lot of that will come back to battles that are bigger than others. Like we mentioned immigration earlier,

that's one we have to win. You know, we can't massively import foreigners and win. It's not possible. But I think we will win in the end. But I think that people, all people, young people, old people have to understand that this is a long years, decades-long process. And no matter how old you are right now,

you probably will not live to see the end of this kind of fighting. So learn to love the grind and learn to love the fight because that's what we have now. And that grind is important. Yeah, I think that's well said. Jesse Kelly, host of the nationally syndicated Jesse Kelly show, give him a follow on X. Anything else we can promote for you, Jesse? I'm not working on anything right now except for coping with a wife who officially has two teenage boys with driver's licenses.

So it feels like the kids have left the house. And now at this point in time, just talking about getting a new dog. So I can really use everyone's prayers. Yeah, I was going to say, prayers up for Jesse Kelly as he navigates this very tumultuous period. Enjoy that fall weather in Houston. Jesse, I'm so glad we made this happen, my friend. Good to see you.

Be good, fellows. Appreciate you. Take it. Take care. Before he ever stepped onto a debate stage or behind a microphone, Charlie understood something really important that if you want to lead, you first have to learn. Charlie believed that ideas shaped character, conviction, and conviction. courage. That's why he spent years studying the classics, the American founding, and the Bible

through Hillsdale College's free online courses. He would rave about these courses all the time. These free online courses are taught by Hillsdale College professors and draw from the same great books and enduring ideas studied on Hillsdale's campus. Hillsdale's newest free online course is the Iliad, where Professor Stephen Smith guides students through Homer's great epic of honor, courage, friendship, leadership, and the pursuit of true greatness. For nearly 3,000 years the Iliad has shaped the Western imagination. It tells the story of Achilles as he confronts injustice, rage, grief, responsibility, and the terrible costs of war. But Homer's epic is more than a story of ancient battles. It raises enduring questions about courage, duty, leadership, sacrifice, and

self-command. Achilles is the greatest warrior among the Greeks, but Homer asks whether strength alone is enough to make a man truly great. In this new free online course, you'll follow Achilles through the defining trials of his life and discover why one of the greatest works of Western literature still speaks to the permanent questions of human life. Charlie understood that learning isn't just about gaining knowledge. It's about forming the mind and character needed to face the challenges of life with wisdom and courage. You can enroll today completely free and take this class or their 40 plus other free online courses. Just visit charlieforhillsdale.com to start learning today. That's Charlie forhillsdale.com. Learn deeply. Think, clearly.

clearly lead boldly and carry it forward just like charlie we have alex marlowe editor-in-chief of bright bart news host the alex marlowe show showing us back by popular demand alex our uh our folks just love you and we've been asking for emails too by the way which we'll will well play in this whole i mean they've been coming in all about talarico all about uh so so you you listen i talk to you i asked you what what what are you hot on today what's your big news story and it's Tal Riko and Ilhan. We covered that in hour one because those are the main takes. But I want to get your take on this, Alex, because let's start with Talrico.

I jumped in and I just said, hey, it doesn't matter if he's at a mental health facility or not, whatever. Here's what happened, though. The podcast bros on the left, the Pod Save America folks, the Will Somers of the world, they jumped on me instantly. which tells, it's a tell in and of itself. So if you don't live in the online space, I mean, there's some polls that say it's like basically 1% of people are actually creators online. If you don't do that,

you wouldn't understand what it feels like when you hit something, when you hit the trip, the trip wire and they come after you, you're like, ah, something's up. They are all in on this. They think they can exploit the fact that there's this rumor going around that he was at a mental health facility. And they think that they can use this to gin up sympathy for him.

or make us look crazy, but something about this story doesn't sit right with me. What's your take, Alex Marla? Yeah, first of all, he's a liar. He's been lying to us about the flu. We know this because yesterday in back-to-back interviews, he said he went to his primary care doctor and he went to urgent care. So he doesn't have a story right. He's not telling the truth.

And we need to know the answer to this. This is the hottest election in the entire country. This is not a joke. We don't know where he was and we're not getting a clear explanation. We also know for a fact he is mentally ill. A guy who acts like God is non-binary. as if he doesn't know the book of Genesis. We talk about God, the father.

How many words is it into the story before we figure that out? We're aware of this stuff from the top. And he's, no, God's non-binary. And then he's the type of guy who is out there nonstop, acting as though he knows every drag queen in all of Texas. He knows him on a first-name basis. And he's constantly talking about the climate change, patriarchy and how we need to dismantle the capitalist system.

It's all the type of stuff that makes normal people's brain hurt. And this is what he's all about. He has mental health issues and now we get to talk about them. Do I honestly think he was at the Ohio facility? I don't. But he is mentally ill and now we get to talk about it. Yeah, this is what I was saying. Like people were saying, is it disqualifying if he had a mental breakdown?

I said, no, what's disqualifying is that he believes in mutilating five-year-olds, that he believes in an open border, that he believes that white people have this racism virus. All of those things are so disqualifying that if it was the Republican who had a mental breakdown. You would say, no, we still have to vote for that guy because this guy is a lunatic who will destroy the United States. That is what just qualifies him. Exactly. Exactly right. And not to mention

the stuff like your six genders. I mean, the guy is completely nuts. And remember when Trump was on a beer aspirin, and so he had the little splotches on his skin like a million other 80-year-olds in everyone's life because he had the blood thinning. And then people acted like this with some sort of a crisis that was going to take down

the republic because Trump was on the verge of death and then was lying about it. And now get a guy who's legitimately mentally insane, who we're thinking of putting in to be a senator from Texas. And people want to know if he's in a mental health institute when he dropped off the campaign for two weeks and were the crazy people for wanting to know where he is, it's not going to work this time. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. So Trump, Trump wasn't, you know, seen for like a day and a half or something. And it was like, Trump's dead. Everybody, remember this, this whole freak out? James Talrico is missing for nine to 12 days, depending on which number you believe. If you say,

more than nine you'll get community noted because the left wingers are like out in force on this one that's the tell though the fact that they are out in force i mean they pounced on me and i was like i didn't even come up with this story and they were like you were one of the chief proponents i was like i was not i i saw the report i said wow big if true and i was one of the they they painted me as one of the chief proponents of this story i said no the guy disappears this is the biggest job interview of his life you don't go disappearing for nine to 12 days in the middle of the most heated election of the cycle and then act like we're all going to just let it go. That's not how this works. This is big boy politics, James Talrico.

I know you're a 35 year old beta male who barely eats meat, but this is the real deal. Okay? This is the big leagues, buddy. Anyways, all right. It's so right on. And remember last week we had to deal with the Cassie Hutchison thing again, where we reminded that she acted like Donald Trump commandeered the beast in the middle of a moment. motorcade, want to drive it to the capital. And we all took her seriously. And then she had a book deal and was the number one New York Times bestseller list, probably a million dollars off of the book.

And we take that stuff seriously. And we can't play around with James Tala Rico's at a mental institution. Maybe he was there. Who even knows with this guy? He's a total unknown. He is a liar. And so they made the rules that we're playing by him too. I'm sticking by this one.

I'm defiant in the face of their luck. It's been proven. You smeared him. No, he smeared himself when he wouldn't come out of bed for nine days, 12 days. Maybe it was 15 days. There's literally a local news reporter. This Kevin McMahon, he goes, we tried to get proof of life from James Tarrico, but this nasty 15 day flu is just really so bad that he can't. And that's totally understandable. That was a local news reporter in Texas. He said 15 days. So what was it? It was a 9? Was it 15? I don't know. We don't know. We don't know,

but I do want to speak specifically to the white educators in the audience today that there are violent hierarchies, these systems, white supremacy, heteropatriarchy, economic exploitation, those things have colonized our own minds. See, if I had said that, and I was saying that seriously, you guys would think Marlowe's gone crazy. Tyler Rico said that not as a joke, and we're going to put them in the Senate. That's insane. I'm going to check you into a mental health facility myself, Alex.

If you say that one more time, I'm going to fly to where you're at, and I'm going to check you in personally. Here's the other big one of the other big concerned. Here's a breaking story we haven't talked about. Elon Musk has admitted that he's poured $366 million into the midterms. It's not 12. According to brand new reporting by the New York Times, Elon Musk has quietly funneled $366 million to Republicans for the midterms.

More than 276 million of it just since the start of July. That means Musk has spent more money on the midterms than he did on the entire 2024, presidential race. You write that Musk's donation to Senate Republican Super PAC was, quote, one of the largest political donations in American history and more than the group's Democratic rival raised from all of its donors that quarter. No Democratic billionaire is spending nearly as much as Mr. Musk, and money remains a central worry for the party in an otherwise favorable political environment. Money remains a big worry, which is great. Good for you on Musk. I'm, you know, I've always been a Musk fan. You know, there's people that think he's, you know, the big tech, the China.

I give the guy a pass because I think he understands what our we're in. I think he understands that there, we are the anti-communist against the hordes. I think, and Elon sees this clearly, Alex. And so, so this is right on. And I'll tell you the, I was someone who's more of a Musk skeptic and is skeptical of some of his praise of China in the past. And I, I, I clung to that longer than I think most people in the MAGA movement. And so I think it gives me, extra credibility to say this is huge. He's really putting his money where his mouth is and showing commitment and he deserves immense amounts of credit for it. This is a bold thing. He's got a lot of companies, a lot of Democrat leftists. They have a lot of stock in his companies. And he's saying,

you know what? This is what I believe. I'm sticking with it. And I dig it. I mean, more of the point. He is at the point where the left is so vengeful, so bitter. They may well, if they take power again, they will be willing to destroy Tesla, destroy SpaceX, destroy the two best American leading cutting-edge manufacturing companies wreck America's economy, throw us back big time just to spite a guy who went against them? Imagine we didn't have Tesla or SpaceX or, I mean, he is singularly responsible for the most cutting-edge technologies. You know how we always

watch Back to the Future too, and it was like 2015, it was supposed to be all advanced and it's not? Well, thanks to Elon Musk, it feels like we live in the future now, okay? I have to plug this huge, huge deal, all right. Voteready.com. Vote ready.com, all right. Make a plan to vote, a plan to vote that counts. Okay, that's our big push. We're doing it.

Tony point in action. Make a plan to vote. Vote ready.com. Just check it out. Check out the website, voteready.com. You'll see the URL right there. Make a plan to vote today. And once you're done, send that to 10 of your friends.

Okay? It helps you check your voter registration status. Make sure there's everything's on the up and up and you got everything you need. And then it tells you where and how to vote. It's a massive new tool that we are rolling out at turning point action. Make a plan to vote. A plan to vote that counts, okay? A vote that counts.

Okay. So that is a key, key tool that we are making available to everybody. VoteReady.com. Check it out today. And I've said it before and I'll say it again. And if you loved Charlie, if you believed in the mission, the mission really does, the rubber meets the road at the ballot box. And so make a plan to vote. Make sure that you don't get a flat tire, that there's not a snowstorm that we saw with like, was that, who is that?

It was a snowstorm in Nevada that really screwed up our Senate hopes a couple of years back. These things happen. You get sick. You forget what. So make a plan to vote. Okay. Vote ready.com. Vote ready.com.

Later this week, we're going to explore. in greater detail the early vote counts and we're going to kind of dive into some of that and see how it's really playing up. All right, Alex Marlowe joins us. Editor-in-chief of Breitbart, great American. Alex, there is, obviously the other big story

is this Ilhan Omar. I never in a million years thought anybody would have the guts to do this. Never in a million years. Honestly, genuinely didn't think so. Yeah. Now, Democrat leader of the House, Hakeem Jeffries, along with WIPP, Catherine Clark, and Pete Aguilar, a real winner there.

They come up with a statement. The Trump administration's raid on Congresswoman Ilhan Omar's home is deeply disturbing and raises serious questions about the continued corrupt weaponization of the federal government against Donald Trump's adversaries. Okay, okay. Now with less than 30 days until the midterm election, his violent mass deportation machine has descended upon the home, a duly elected member of Congress and her family. Okay, so they're really up in arms. And I do just want to caution everybody. Don't get to, if you're Republicans, do not get too excited about this.

This could be a bad precedent. What if, Alex, what if Democrat administration did something like Ray Trump's house? And maybe they would even go through his wife's underwear drawer. This could set a terrible precedent, Alex. And I think Hakeem Jeffries is on to something here. It's so right. And this is again, their rules, the second story in Iraq. which is like this is that they made these rules that if you're allowed to go through baron

trump's peloton room looking for state secrets if you're allowed to go through milania trump's underwear drawer looking for state secrets and all that leads up to what was even worse in the raids which was the completely unconstitutional 19 months of jack smith who did not even have a real job as a fake job just to rash trump all that came from the mara lago raid if that's what it's going to be then you know what you better be very sure that you didn't marry your brother yeah well this is hilarious because peter you know pete agon who's a real a real peach calling this a rogue abuse of power pete aguilar in 23 on trumps on the raid of trump's house there can't be two sets of rules there has to be accountability let the justice system

play out these guys they lie like they breathe the hypocrisy is rank and it needs to be called out now i happen to think alex that the number one most likely scenario i think blake agrees is that they're looking into paperwork. They're looking into, was the original paperwork fraudulent? Was it corrupted? Was it plagiarized? Anything was there an issue there? They want to find that because most other crimes, unfortunately,

are glorious laws, don't let us denaturalize a person who merely becomes a citizen and then becomes a fantastic criminal. You have to have committed fraud in the naturalization process itself, and she's been a citizen a long time. So you have to go way back. At which point, then you can denaturalize, even a sitting member of Congress. It's not our fault.

She's basically voted into office by a block that votes in unison of Somalis and Muslims in Minnesota. That's Minnesota's fault. Actually, it is our fault. It's a government's fault for importing these people. But why is this important? I actually think this is remarkably important that we make a statement that says, even if you're a sitting member of Congress and you lied to get in here, you are on the list. you are fair game for the judicial system to prosecute, investigate, and potentially denaturalize.

Yeah, that's the first point. That is the most important point that we consider it as that if you are a congressperson, you're actually above the law, you're allowed to do illegal stuff and get away with it. This would reset that, which I think would be very good. And there's all these ancillary things that are going on that are still important, like Somalis on a generationally bad run here. And there's a major race where there are factors, which is Minnesota, which one of the tightest primary races. It's kind of a blue state. It could go red specifically because of Somali gang violence and fraud. Important to talk about this. Maybe is there a stunt element to that part?

Maybe, I don't know, but a federal judge signed off on this. So this is not a fly-by-night thing. And it does allow us to bring up those things about how, remember how the FBI agents were allowed to use deadly force on the Mar-a-Lago raid? Do you guys remember that? Do you remember how when they knew they were getting roasted by the media, they took all the alleged classified documents that they found. They scattered it all over Mar-a-Lago, as if Trump.

Trump had just thrown it up in the air like confetti. Remember how absurd that whole farce was? And now we get to talk about that for a few minutes, and that's okay. No. Alex. Oh, do you, sorry? Well, I was actually, this might be a bit of a swerve, but we are getting towards the midterms. And Angelo is flagging this, that Mayor Mamdani is just aggressively skipping all of the Columbus Day events. He might attend an Italian American Heritage Dinner that is not Columbus Day related.

And obviously, this is a big deal. Angelo is from New York. A lot of Italians there. I just feel we're closing in on Election Day, and I just feel our big pitch, it links with the Ilhan Omar stuff, that Ilhan Omar is fundamentally, not just far left, but very anti-American in her outlook. And same thing with Mamdani. It is Christopher Columbus, who is the ultimate root cause of a country that his family

wanted to move to rather than remain in their home country. But he thinks that's a bad thing. Take down his statues, reject his legacy, global, you know, celebrate the third worldization of America instead. I think that should be our message. It's brilliant. It's exactly right. You guys are totally on it. He's not just here.

She's not just here to get elected and enjoy America and appreciate America and to make a multicultural experiment. They're here specifically to undermine what our country stands for. And the more we talk about that, and Columbus Day is a perfect day to do it. The better Americans are to understand that. That when you start seeing all of the efforts to try to undermine the white patriarchy and the capitalistic system. And remember, Hassan Piker, not not Asan Piker. or Abdul al-Sayed said, we owe it to the world to open our borders. One of the quotes of the year is not just that we want to have a, we don't like ice.

We owe it to the world to open our borders. We don't owe anyone anything other than Americans. Amen. Yeah, I think this is really so key. And, you know, I've said it before, and I'm going to keep saying it again, because I think this phenomenon of, of Muslims, latching onto left-wing political movements in the West, is because they know those left-wing political movements give them the most,

energy, the most permission to infiltrate, to open the borders, and then bankrupt us through mass welfare. The most permission, and it just fulfills their id. They are a very resentment-driven political movement. And they want to use it like a Trojan horse to infiltrate the West and destabilize our countries. We can't let it happen. Alex Marlow, editor-in-chief of Breitbart, check him out there. The host of the Alex Marlowe show. Thank you, my friend. God bless you. Talk to you soon. Thanks, guys. By the end of the year, more than 60,000 babies will have been saved by pre-born centers. Just this year, 60,000 babies.

And for every baby who's saved, there's a mom who's saved from a lifetime of pain and regret. Take a stand for life by providing an ultrasound for a young woman. When you do, she is twice as likely to choose life. Just $28 helps provide that ultrasound that saves one baby. $140 helps save $5, a gift to $15,000. And I know there's people out there in this audience that can do this. $15,000 provides an ultrasound machine that can save thousands of babies for years to come. And $28 a month can help save babies all year long for less than a dollar a day.

So call 833-850-229. That's 833-850-229 or click on the pre-born banner at charliekirk.com today. Preborn was so special to Charlie. And it's so important to me as well. Right now you can help make motherhood podcast. possible by providing ultrasounds with preborn. I'd be so honored if you'd prayerfully consider joining us. All right. Matthew Peterson joins us now. He's got a long CV. I want to make sure I get all of the cool things. Post-Legacy Ventures, Infrastructure and Media. He's the founder of something

called Forum, which is a new project he's doing. I'm hoping to work with him at Amfest, as a matter of fact, to set up a great debate. These are the most important conversations that we're going to have on the right. And so that's kind of Matthew Peterson in a nutshell. He's also a fellow at Claremont, which we love. Welcome back to the show, Matthew. It's good to see you, man. Hey, it's good to be here. I'm actually, after the little trip to Israel, I just did,

I'm at the Claremont Fellowships with a bunch of speech raters here in Washington, D.C. Fantastic. Oh, nice. Fantastic. That's what I love about what you do. You're not afraid to have the hard conversations on the right to sort of forge a new consensus because movements change. The first principles remain the same.

but in a changing world with the context constantly changing, the coalition constantly changing, we've got to sort of re-examine these. And you're one of those guys that's out front doing that, having very courageous conversation. So I love that about what you're doing, Matthew. Now, you went to NatCon, and this became quite the buzz on the internets of it all. And it was interesting to see who was upset about it, who kind of understood it, who got what you were doing, who got what other speakers like our friend Lomez were doing, Jonathan Kipperman.

but you guys went to Israel, which is first and foremost, I mean, I think for a certain segment of the population. There's a lot of people who at this point, if it's any Jewish speaker, anyone in Israel, they're just going to lose their mind. Yeah, so they lost their mind. But what you said, I actually watched your speech and I was like, based, based, based, no notes, no notes. So let's just start there. We can get into what the NACCON goal is. There's a lot of people that speculate that it's actually sort of like a Trojan horse for a greater Israel Project and all that. But why did you go, why did you decide to go there and speak in the first place, Matthew? Yeah, thank you for asking that question. You know, so I was asked to go, I think, months ago and I thought, look, I have a busy schedule. I know full well if I go to Jerusalem, to NatCon, I'm going to get people on both sides yelling that, you know, ironically, both that I'm a

Nazi and a pawn of the, you know, Zionists. And I thought the only reason to go, you know, to NatCon in Jerusalem would be to actually address some of these issues about American-Israeli relations. And at the time, I thought, you know, I'm too busy. I don't think I can pull that off of my schedule. And then I started to look at what was going on behind the scenes on the right. And I think there's a lot of bad actors who are trying to stir up division, you know, as particularly anti-Vance people with charges of anti-Semitism and, you know, claiming they speak for the right and trying to gatekeep. And I just saw this mess. And, uh, um, um, Yoram and our friend of Man, Amelius, reached out and said,

hey, we want to have this panel to directly address these issues. And I thought, you know, this is right. The time is right to actually start talking about this and entangling this mess we have, where on the one side you have people, as Blake just said, who anything Israel or Jewish is, you know, is terrible in a non-starter. And they're screaming about how everyone's a tool of the Zionists. And the other side, you have people. who are yelling that everyone is, you know, an anti-Semite many times unfairly.

So I thought the time is now to just disentangle this. And my main point is very simple. My main point was, don't mistake the fact, especially if you are Israeli, that in American politics, there's a lot of people who are against intervention. They're concerned about foreign intervention. But generally, they're pro-Israel, the friendly. And I think the new right, there's a lot of people in the new right who see a little bit of decoupling, nothing crazy, but a little bit of separating America from,

Middle East and taking a step back. And the flip side of that is more sovereignty for Israel. I think that's common sense. But, you know, common sense doesn't fly these days. And there was a lot of controversy. So, Matt, we like to talk about this. Charlie spent a lot of time talking about it. He spent a lot of effort behind the scenes on this because he knew years ago this was a growing issue within the right that people are getting increasingly radicalized on the Israel topic and how it relates to foreign intervention and everything else. And he wanted something stable, something that the movement could, even if there was disagreement, that we would avoid blowing up and letting the far left win elections over it. So what do you see as a stable point? Like if we have J.D. Vance running in 2028 or even

candidates going beyond, what is a position they could stake out that would satisfy enough people and be a point that it can win over voters and keep people in our movement from, in our movement, from spiraling out one way or the other? I think that the acknowledgement has to be, and I think that J.D. has tried to do this a little bit. But I think the next step is to say, look, we're two separate countries. Our interests don't always align,

and sometimes our interests do align. And when they align, great, we work together. When they don't, that's okay. You know, we're still friends. And I think that a little bit of independence is what's needed here. There is a little bit of good fences, make good neighbors.

were not what the United States, very simply, the national security strategy was written last year, wants Israel to remain secure. You know, that's just true. The question is, how much do we get involved, right, in the Middle East overall? And of course, there we want less intervention. So the tradeoff is more Israeli sovereignty. And we sort of let, you know, countries in the Middle East, we encourage them to take care of their own problems themselves. And sometimes, when our interests align, you know, we join in those efforts. But I think it's a very simple trade-off in the, generally speaking, that we back away a little bit, we decouple a bit, and there's more sovereignty and independence there. And you see the same thing, by the way, it's not just as Israel throughout the world, the same thing in Europe. You know, those countries have made themselves weak. NATO didn't really make a lot of sense by the time Donald Trump appeared on the scene. And we want the same thing to happen there. So I don't see it as strange or abnormal. I think there's an obvious next step, generally speaking, moving forward.

I want to play some of your clips here because you did a great job. I mean, your speech, I recommend everybody watch Matthew's entire speech. It's short, but it's very powerful. Sot 9. I understand that the desire to call out hatred. Denouncing anti-Semitism in America in the abstract these days is much like calling an opponent racist. Both terms have been hollowed out by the left.

The ADL, for instance, has long since the last. lost any power over the right by attacking figures like Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and TPUSA. We have a boy who cried Wolf Problem in America and the West. The left makes accusations like this all the time, and the younger rising right doesn't care about being called names or abstract iss or isms from any side. And frankly, neither do I. But I do not mean to tell anyone to be silent, far from it. On the contrary, if we're going to sort through the noise, my advice is to stop using abstract categories and isms and isst and isistics, call out and argue instead about specific statements and positions you think wrong or evil instead. Ask specific questions to specific people.

I can't tell you, I was like standing up in my chair when you said this because one of the most, I think, counterproductive tendencies of the pro-Israel right and some of my Jewish friends as well is that it's like you get called names all the time. Charlie got called names. And it's, And Charlie was a defender of many of these values that they care about and many of the Israeli sovereignty and security. And it's been so destructive. And I love that you just went straight in there. And you said, hey, enough of the is and the isms. Like you have to get specific.

Stop with the abstracts. They're counterproductive. How did that go over in the room? So the interesting thing is that as opposed to online, granted it was a self-selected room, we were mobbed like rock stars after that speech. I mean, a bunch of people came up, so many people came up to talk to us that they said everyone had to get off the stage. They were worried about the stage collapsing. And in general, I'd say, especially with younger Israelis, they completely understood what I was saying. You know, several younger Israelis came up, particularly young men and said, you know, thank you for saying that.

I 100% agree. And then there were questions, you know, from some of the older people about, well, what did you mean by this? What do you mean by that? And talking past each other is what's important here, because. because I don't think most Americans know the perspective of the Israeli right wing. Many of those people say, we don't want foreign aid anymore from America. We don't need it. But you don't hear that on certain networks in America.

And then the reverse of it is, I think a lot of the Israeli right wing doesn't quite understand what's happening in America. So, you know, as in terms of the crowd right there, they were very supportive, very interested. And, you know, there was a lot of applause during the speech when I gave it. and the attorney is, of course, you know, certain people online who've anointed themselves as, you know, the gatekeepers of the right went, well, they were apoplectic about it. And so were the, so were the groopers, right? They were very upset as well. So, you know, I kind of think my job many times and as part of what forums about is to have these conversations and I don't really care if I get attacked by both sides. And so what you just lined out there, so I'm listening to this. And this has been kind of my reflection on a lot of. a lot of this Israel discussion, especially after losing Charlie, is it's like you've got the neocons that are very loud and very morally certain about their position. And then you got the

Groyper crowd and the far right crowd, the anti-Israel crowd that are very morally certain about their position. And then you got this center cut. I'd say 20% over there. And 20% over there, you got 60 to 70% of us in the middle that are just going. 80, 85. Maybe, yeah, could be that large that are going like can we not have a pragmatic realist foreign policy position on Israel where we're we're not scapegoating people but we're also making space for the fact that hey they have a type of nationalism and sovereignty that we would like actually that where they get to say we're a distinctly Jewish state I would love to say we're a distinctly Christian Western nation okay well and we're not going to let in people that are going to ruin that I want

to be able to say that without anybody saying well no you have to let in all these people no I like what Israel has. I like their border. I want to take that from them. And I want to be able to morally justify it here. So it works both ways. Understand where many of the young men on the right are coming from. If you were a young white American, you have grown up in an education system and culture that celebrated both mass migration to America as well as organized tribalism in America among all those being imported there. An educational system and political culture that encouraged every ethnicity to join together as an interest group against depression from, well, you. They have been told that they must apologize for their whiteness and that if they were ever to act

as a group like everyone else in America they see as trained to do and celebrated for doing their evil or Nazis. And this anti-white sentiment and discrimination has had very predictable result. This is the reality in which young people have been born into, a reality in which World War II is as far away as the Civil War was to those. who fought in that conflict. First of all, that's great. So amen to basically every single thing said there. But I feel like that's like the healthiest thing you could take.

We're talking about our attitude towards Israel or whatever. And I think I remember as this was bubbling up, the line of attack was basically just, or really the assertion was just it would be nice for us to have a country where our foreign policy just cares less about another country. when I was at Fox. This was about a decade ago and was when President Trump was contemplating strikes on Syria. And the show I was at, we had Roger Wicker on. And he basically, we asked him, what is the argument for doing this? And his first response was, well, if you care about the security of Israel, you should care about these strikes. And that was a line that people heard often. And I think that is what sparked so much of the sourness towards Israel, was the sense that literally their interest was. was the primary thing that had us involved in the Middle East. And if you could get us towards a position where that's just not an answer you're hearing all the time, where we just care less about other countries and care more about our own, a lot of this weird fever would pass.

And the reason that would be good is actually what was in that clip just there, that in America, we've had this culture that for years just takes it as a given, that native traditional heritage Americans, people whose ancestors fought in the Civil War, fought in the Revolution, came over on the Mayflower, are bad and need to be dispossessed in favor of new arrivals. And probably the best thing you can do is, if you look towards Israel as an example, what drives the left so berserk about them, really more even than any war they fight, is the fact that it is just a country that is self-confidence not a diverse melting pot for everyone on the planet,

but says, actually, we are a Jewish nation state that doesn't mean everyone here is Jewish, That doesn't mean non-Jews are not allowed here. In fact, they have a quite large pool of them. But the purpose of our country is for the well-being of that group primarily. And we should be able to have that in America. It seems like that's what you were basically communicating, Matthew, to this Israeli audience. Yes. You know, it was very interesting because another thing that came up, which is another, you know, delicate, awkward topic.

But we shouldn't be. We need to normalize having discussions like adults on the right and act like winners, is the frustration I tried to communicate for a lot of younger people, younger Americans who are right wing. A lot of them don't even know if they've met a Jewish person in their life, but they notice that there are a lot of prominent Jewish Americans who have supported, right, mass migration and appeared to believe they were one of the minorities

that would be protected in the big rainbow coalition of the left and were supportive of identity politics as well. And of course, what's happened in the last five years, is that Jewish Americans have found out, you know, the hard way that the left is not going to protect them. The left is not going to protect, you know, Jewish students on college campuses were being chased down by woke lunatics. The left has rejected any sanity there. They're not going to say no to the DSA. They're not going to say no to Mom Dani. So Jewish Americans are then forced with, well, the left doesn't, you know, want me anymore. I am interested in joining the right. And that's sort of what the coalitional battle is in America.

So when I said that to the Israelis, what's very interesting is, of course, right-wing Israelis think that the, you know, lefty sort of Jewish-American cousins are nuts. They think this is crazy. And they don't support that at all. But, of course, they're reluctant to criticize because they see that it as possibly dangerous. And they wonder if they should publicly, you know, come out and say, this is ridiculous. And my encouragement was, man, if you guys did this, if you went on, you know, a big cable network and said, this crazy. Like, you would get a lot of support here in America. And really, the crown's in the gutter.

I mean, the first Israeli politician who comes on and says, look, this anti-white discrimination is crazy. What you guys are doing here is crazy. This is not how Israel operates. And we would die if we imported a bunch of people and trained them to hate us. Now, we would never do that. And people shouldn't be for that here, whether they're Jewish or not. And then if you all said, I don't need your aid anymore. by the way. We should be an independent nation. We don't want to just be a client state.

And anyone who said that would be immensely popular and sort of begin to resolve this problem. Matthew, I want to play this other clip because you go straight into the heart of this evangelical debate because that's really what's happening here. There's a very insidious group of people that now hate evangelical Christians. We used to be so ecumenical on the right. And we need to get back there. But that's wedge issue because evangelicals tend to support Israel based on a theological premise, they have become also smeared, slandered, and persona and engrada in some circles. You go straight at this, and I love it. Sadei. Many of my evangelical friends still here stand with Israel as a religious duty. For many other Christians in America, the idea that their religion

requires them to support the particular policies of another nation is deeply insulting. Many Republicans frequently complain to me that they're done with this dynamic. Many, again, who support Israel. want me to convey this message. They do not think that their Christianity requires them to blindly support whatever decisions Israel chooses to make and find it condescending if anyone assumes this is the way they should think about it.

Now, this does not mean that they see no religious ties to the Holy Land. It means that relying on this approach alone to American Christians is a dead end. I submit the way forward as frank policy discussions based on reality. This means getting clear where interests align and do not. And when they do not, it's okay. I love this because I have perceived the same thing,

Matthew. It is a dead end to say you are religiously duty bound to support Israel. That is condescending, and it goes over like a lead balloon. Let's just put it that way. Final minute to you, Matthew, what is the way forward? Yeah, and just on that note real quick, I mean, evangelicals are great friends, but not everyone thinks that way. And so the argument can't go that way. And that's okay. It's all right. We're in a big, beautiful coalition.

So the way forward, really, for the right in general, is to realize that we broke the back of the left in 2024. That election was not supposed to go the way it did. We won. And now we have to act like winners, which means having these difficult discussions about where we agree and disagree. And when it comes to foreign policy in general, Americans on the right are rethinking foreign alliances with all nations, not just Israel, but that,

The point is that most people were still friendly to Israel, we just want to, you know, we want to fine-tune and rethink all of our alliances when it comes to, you know, international relations. And when we do that, there's going to be pluses and minuses and trade-offs. And ultimately, it's more sovereignty for the Israelis and a little bit of decoupling in a sensible way. And we move forward and we get over this, Matthew. Matthew J. Peterson, founder of the forum.

I hope to work with you at Amfest, Matthew, so I'll send you a note on that. Good stuff. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.