The Charlie Kirk Show - Tucker Carlson Remembers the Faith of Charlie Kirk

Episode Date: September 19, 2025

Beyond being an activist, an organizer, and a host, Charlie was a believer — perhaps the most vocal and viral Christian in the country. Tucker Carlson takes his turn hosting the program, talking to Frank Turek, Andrew, and Blake about Charlie's deep faith and how it pervaded every facet of his life.  Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I don't know. You know, I'm going to be able to I'm going to be. I'm going to be. You know, ...you know, ...and…

...you know ...and ...their ...and ...the... ...you... ...and... ...and...

...and... ...the... Ah, that intro may be able to be emotional. It's Tucker Carlson. I'm honored to be sitting in to host the Charlie Kirk Show today. I flew in from the East Coast last night and was thinking about what to do today for two hours. And there's all this very ugly drama swirling around the Republican Party, the right, the memory of Charlie Kirk. And I just thought, and I've got, of course, strong opinions. I have strong opinions, but everything. And I've expressed them.

But I thought I really need a break from that. And I don't think that any of it reflects who Charlie was fundamentally. Who was Charlie fundamentally? he was a Christian man and Jesus was the center of his life that was obvious to anyone who knew him it emerged in conversation immediately when you talk to him that's that's just a fact about charlie his life was about following jesus period and so i think the best way to explain who he was is to spend the next two hours talking about jesus and charlie's relationship with him and so i'm going to be really happy to do that this will be the happiest conversation about charlie kirk i hope

all week and so as I said I'm hosting but I've no idea how the show works I literally don't know though I've done it but luckily Andrew and Blake are here

who I know very well I've actually worked with like for years in another life we're both grateful to be gone from that but Andrew is really going to be like running in and out we're just gonna have fun today good well I

with you in charge of the details I know that that will happen correct Blake it's wonderful to see we talked on the phone And the other day, I've been thinking about you every single day. So I hope you're holding up and I'm grateful that you're here. So, yeah, I want to talk about Charlie's relationship with Jesus. And I'm amazed to go, I have a whole list of thoughts or sound bites.

Here, I asked for Charlie talking about God in public. And I'm just kind of amazed what came back. I mean, they're really, it was a deluge. It was unbelievable because there's really no one in public life who talked about Jesus more than Charlie Kirk and I'll just now I'm revealing one of my ugly biases but some of the people whose job it is to talk about Jesus are not um you know I don't think is credible and believable I'm just being honest as I think Charlie was he really meant it he wasn't being paid to say it I think everything that he did everything that he thought the way he lived were all informed

by his love of Jesus and I don't think I'm overstating and I said this to him recently when he was at my house in Maine. I really, you remind me of Paul. Like, you never stop. I stop. I like to, I like to go fishing. I like to go bird hunting. I like to hang out on Saturday morning in bed with my wife and like, you know, BS with my wife and all this stuff. But Charlie just did not allow himself any of that. He was so driven. And you can see it now maybe as part of a larger plan where he never wasted a minute. He forced himself to get on the airplane and to do things that were really, really hard in a way that I've never done. I'll just admit it.

And I think that was because he felt God had a plan for him that he was on a mission. It wasn't just about getting somebody elected. It was about something bigger than that. Am I? Well, just ask you first, Andrew, and then Blake. Do you think that's, I'm reading too much into it, or do you think that's right?

No, I totally agree. And I've had wave after wave of revelation of what we were actually doing. You know, I was sowing the weeds. We were sowing the weeds that, it was impossible to fully understand even what we were doing. But I, you know, I'm, and I, Charlie and I bonded at the very earliest days because we were both, like, really strong Christians. And that was such a central part of who we were.

But we didn't, you know, we didn't talk about it all the time necessarily publicly. But as the years went on, we both knew that we had each other in that way. And I've tweeted, there's two tweets that I've posted, I have realized in the days hence, that he was a prophet, not a fortune teller, like people think of prophecy. He was like a biblical prophet that would go into a nation and call it to repent. That's what he was doing. He was going to these campuses, and he was going on stage, and he was going on this show in the podcast, and he was calling a nation to repent.

He went to London, and he called England to repent at Cambridge and Oxford, and they hurled insults at him. They mocked him, they jeered him, just like the biblical prophets. They wanted to stone him, and ultimately they killed him, And that is what Jesus said. He said, what did they do to the prophets? They killed him. And now the other revelation.

You're making me emotionally get. Because I know that what you're saying is true. And the other revelation is specifically about these campus tours. We called them campus tours. They were tent revivals. Yes. Complete with the tent, Tucker. I don't know why I didn't really see any of this.

You say that. And I just like to envision like George Whitfield like being, you know, it's just like, Jesus was sent as a savior and must. be accepted to be saved prove me wrong I know but it's so clear to me now it's so clear to me too I don't know it's yeah I don't know how I missed that

I don't know why I thought it was like political organizing or something which like on one level it was but it that's not well you guys were there all the whole time I mean it was more than that it was it was and it really knowing him over the past almost three years

that was what I would always tell people who would ask about Charlie. And it's so funny where, like, they'd always just open. Like, is Charlie smart? And I'd be like, yes, but that's kind of besides the point. Like, the amazing thing with him is not his IQ or like how much, how many, like, facts he can know or something. What was amazing with him was his drive. The way I would say, he was like, he was the highest agency person I had ever met in my life.

Yes. Yes. He thought if there is something I don't like, I have the power as an individual to change the world about that. or at least if I don't take action I have no excuse to complain about it and he brought that to politics and organization of course but he especially brought it to the faith question and he always

always wanted to talk about it you love to talk about it in private he loved talking about it in places where it was you know arguably pointless the last speech he kind of gave in public was we were in Japan and Japan is 1% Christian

maybe we are speaking to a party there that's you know we're aligned with them because they're anti-immigration they don't like globalism you know we were talking to them about all that stuff he's like you should increase your birth rate don't rely on immigrants and all that but Japan is famously resistant to Christianity yes yes but and I told them about that and but you know in Korea we talked about Christianity and there it was a Christian audience mostly but he said he's like you know is there somewhere I can

work in the faith angle to this because you know we're supposed to to preach it everywhere everywhere we go and so we talked about that you know what what could we do and we found a spot late in the speech and the very end of his speech he was saying look guys I want you to save your country but in the end you're going to have to believe in something transcendent for that to work it's not just going to work on pragmatic grounds and for me and then he just you know for me it's because of my belief in the almighty my belief in Jesus Christ and you're going to need to have something like that to be able to win. And, you know, I think two people in the audience started clapping really, really energetically.

And the rest kind of sat there very politely as the Japanese do. But you did get a couple people. Oh, the Japanese are wonderful people. But, but you're right. They're not open to that. But there were two who were? Yeah. And maybe they were believers.

I'm not sure. But, you know, I'm very glad he got to do that. And then in Korea, though. Yeah. Now, Korea, totally different. Very different story. We have this clip. but why don't we just play it if it's okay, Tucker?

Oh my gosh, of course. 18. That was 11 days ago, Tucker, and he's on stage, and in English, they asked him to come forward and pray and sing over Charlie, and they put their hands up, and they started in English saying, how great is our God, sing with me, how great is our God? And Charlie put his hand on his heart, and Mikey said when he got off stage, like he could see his eyes were missing. It meant so much to him. I just can't resist a sidebar. I was in Melbourne, Australia, not that long ago, by myself on a Sunday. And I was like, I got to go to church. And Melbourne's one of the darkest cities really in the world.

There are good things about Melbourne, but basically it's, it's an enemy hands. And boy, do you feel it when you're there. And I was like, I got to go to church. So I go, of course, to the Anglican church, which is my denomination. It's now a museum filled with Chinese tourists. I was like, oh, this is the worst. I'm feeling despondent. I go next door to the Scottish Church, the Presbyterian Church.

beautiful beautiful church like in beyond and there's no one in it except at the front and it's like a hundred yards away it felt like there's this little group of people singing and it's Koreans and this Korean congregation of like nine people has taken over the church rented it on Sundays because of course no whites are going to church of course and I just thought to myself this was God's way of reassuring me that even though the world that I grew up and is gone and totally you know everyone's fallen away and it hasn't worked at all, that Jesus still lives. But, you know, his name is spoken in other languages. And one of those is Korean. And there's something about watching Koreans worship that just, oh, it's my favorite thing ever. I totally agree. They are

absolute prayer warriors. But I just believe this, Tucker, and I have to say this, like in this moment, I believe God is unleashing a new revival on this country. And Charlie is the spark that is igniting it. I completely agree. And I don't even want to say it's his death. It's the start of his eternal life and his eternal glory, his immortality. And I believe that he is seated with God in heaven and he's seated in glory. And I believe that there's a reason that Charlie and Erica would look at each other and say, you know, our mission is to make heaven crowded. And I believe that that is actually the real mission. And that is actually going to be happening right now. It's happening in our midst right now, and it's sweeping the country, and there was a story I just heard on the drive here this morning that they ran out of baptism space.

They just kind of did an impromptu baptism space as one of my friends' churches, and so they went out in the parking lot and started dunking people in the fountain. Hundreds of them. Protestants are fun. I just love that. If I can just say a word, I mean, I don't get involved in the Protestant Catholic Orthodox thing, because I'm just for Jesus. but if I could just stick up just for one second for my people Protestants were real once like they built this country they did I'm sorry it's a fact and they really believed in God

and they you know they were on the right path they were amazing people and I'm very aware that they've declined to the point where I make fun of them constantly but there was something very very real there very real sorry well the circuit writers I feel like I have to say that no no I mean listen and they're as I'm somebody both Erica and I were cradle Catholics right we were yeah did the first communion and we did the catechism and the you know the anyways I went to Catholic high school

even you did you go to Catholic high school no long story long long long story involving a Senate race in 2002 but the point is my parents moved me to public schools I I ended up getting saved in college very very very non-denominational evangelical way to phrase it I got saved in college radically saved So I had this Catholic background, but then I found myself in a non-denominational setting alone at a school in Seattle, like the second-least church city in the country. And I ended up getting radically saved. But I've never cared about the distinctions. I love both. Yeah, I agree.

You know, I might have petty, minor little theological differences. Yes. It doesn't matter. I love them both. I don't understand. Because of my path here, I never cared. anyone who focuses on Jesus is my brother, that's how I feel, and I agree with you 100%. And if you let your...

It's a little bit like Twitter, actually. If you think about it too much, you end up hating everybody and you miss the commonality between people and the commonality between Christians is Jesus, period. And if you think about, well, I'm mad about transubstantiation or like the last Pope was horrible. Maryology, which he was. I'm so sad we didn't get to just have that full debate. we wanted to have just a straight like just for fun like let's debate mary no i'm not doing that but we wanted to do it with charlie and now we can't i'm not doing that and that one of the the things i hope you guys live to your 50s because and i'm sure you will but because when you get

there you're like wow i've been wrong about so much and you think that middle age people are wishy-washy and low testosterone does account for some of that just a fact but part of it is just the recognition of how wrong you've been and that is the Christian forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us it's like first you meditate on how fallen you are and then you realize you don't have a basis upon which to judge other people actually and you can forgive them and that is the process that's prescribed in the Lord's prayer of course it's the center of Christianity but it's also just like a human process and you get there and you realize like yeah I'm mad about Mary that's a fact okay but then I get older and my wife's like oh I

I was just saying the rosary, my very Protestant wife, and I love it. It brings me closer to Jesus. And I'm like, I'm not judging anymore. And I really want people to understand, Tucker. You and Charlie had such a unique and special bond and relationship. It was a deep friendship, and you both had each other's back in an incredible way. He had my back.

You had his back, too. I know those stories as well. Yeah. And I promised I wouldn't get into any of that. But I will say, and I'm not going to, but I will say, because I want this to be about Jesus and his love for Jesus. and what he did to spread the word of Jesus throughout the world. But I will just say this, that whenever I would come and do a gig for you guys, which was a lot because I really enjoyed it, and he was so kind to invite me and defend my being there.

But I would always, he's the only person I did this with. I would always say, hey, you know, let's like meet in my hotel room or have a meal. Like, oh, I loved talking to him. And it wasn't just to catch up on everything that's going on in the political world. He would always bring it back to God every single time. It was so, and there's no one around. Like, so he didn't need to be like, oh, yeah, I really love God. It's like, just us.

And you'd be talking about that. And you would come to Phoenix, and you would reach out to it. I know, it was like, I have so many memories of Charlie being like, I can't. I got to do dinner. Who are you doing dinner with? Oh, Tucker's in town. I got to meet up with it. Always, always.

And he was so intellectually curious and flexible. And I think that also grew out of his Christian faith. And I know that as I've gotten older, it's been one of the things I appreciate most about believing in God is like you can admit when you were wrong. you can change your views Paul who created a lot of the early church was the chief persecutor of Christians he was a freaking Pharisee

so like in our religion at its core is the fact that God can change people and so you don't need to be brittle and afraid about admitting that yeah I was totally off base and Charlie was so much like that he was constantly thinking about it is just the right thing is that the right thing like there's no one in public life who does that it's so easy for like religion

you know for sometimes people use religion as an excuse for megalomania yes and charlie was so humble genuinely humble thank you for saying we would we would have these moments thank you for saying and on this note we'd have these moments and i'd be like can you freaking believe what's going on you're on south park or whatever all on god and he would say he would say stay humble stay close to jesus that would be the type bet we need to stay home we need to stay close to jesus really yes this is in his private text to people who works with i have a story like this too and i'm i'm ashamed that i am the villain in this story basically it was two weeks before he died and i'll never forget it i there was just some annoyance

that was you know in our way and we we needed to deal with something i can't even remember it was and i just remember going hey you know we could just tell him x y z and translation we could just you know a little white lie and it'll go away they'll understand and i remember seeing the like the dots he's typing right away right away we don't lie It was a private message with me. I love that. And it wasn't, you don't lie. It's not I don't lie.

It was, Andrew, we here on this show and this turning, in turning point, we don't lie. Well, and not only don't lie, I mean, without even getting into it, but like, if you run a huge nonprofit and D.C. is all about huge non-profits. I know everyone who runs them. Boy, there are temptations, and there was never any of that here, ever. And Troy and I talked about that a lot. Like, here are the pitfalls in a man. life here here's how people get ensnared it happened to david i mean we know this is a thing he was so and again i just had this conversation right before he died because i'm very focused on

because i've seen sort of people destroyed destroyed themselves and it's clearly like satan acting on them fact sorry and he was like he was a narrow path walker and i just have to say that because most aren't he would run home to be with erika yes if he couldn't yes if he if he if he if Erica was on the road. He'd be like, are we done here? Okay. Like a donor dinner or something. He would, you know, he, after our events at night, he would do kind of like a little circuit to all the dinners and he couldn't wait. He's like, okay. And I'd be like, I got to talk to you about one other thing, Charlie. Hold on one second. One second. He's like, sorry, I'll talk to you about it in the morning. I got to see Erica. Bye. I, it was just, I love to tell people this. Because sometimes, people who didn't watch Charlie a lot would sometimes just think, oh, he's like a young influencer. So people would ask me, they'd be like, Blake, do you ever hang out with Charlie? And what I don't. always say is I don't think Charlie has ever hung out in his entire life he was always on his mission or you know he was with you know he was with

his family it was 100% all the time that being said some of the best memories that I have are the plane flights across country yeah because and that's the only time he can hang out it was amazing he's trapped in a tube by the way when and I think that gave him the freedom to kind of just go

I'm hanging out and I mean if you had to add him up i've got hundreds of these hours and they are some of the most amazing because he was so funny and so so so curious and so so he did but it was like you had to get him in this this mode where you literally trapped him on a plane and he couldn't get out and he was stuck but what is that i mean most people sort of fritter away their entire lives hanging out and i'm i'm definitely one of them i'm like an arab man in the suit i like to sit around hitting the water pipe playing backgammon drinking little cups of coffee talking about women like

I've spent a lot of my life doing that. That's why I love Trump so much. He likes that too. But Charlie had like this mission all the time. So my theory on that, Tucker, is I think in order for this whole God plan to work in Charlie's life, he had to like, he had to impress in him almost subconsciously, hardwire it, whatever it was, he was going to maximize the juice, the output. And Charlie disciplined his body. He didn't put alcohol into his body. He didn't put drugs into his body.

He didn't put anything into his body that he thought was going to slow him down or reduce his productivity. He was obsessed with biohacking. He was like, and I thought it was just this weird quirk because I'm thinking, Charlie, you're going to be alive because you're younger than me. You're going to be alive when I'm gone. Like, chill out, relax, have some fun. But somehow he knew there wasn't a moment to waste. And I'm finding these things, Tucker, that he found time to do. Eric is telling me he somehow found time to journal obsessively and she never looked at the journals

wrote her a weekly note every single week wrote her a weekly note on Saturday every every Saturday he read books he skimmed books he got Blake to read them he found ways to get the team to distill information so he could absorb it and he but he would do walks with books on tape he he managed to squeeze so much life into such a short period of time and it's I have to believe it was God impressing and blessing him with this divine ability to maximize

his output. I love that and I had many conversations with him on this topic also about like physical health. I'm a pizza guy so okay physical health. I quit smoking cigarettes at 45 like I feel very much. It turns out you say he didn't want to

put anything in his body that would hinder him and it turns out the list of things that hinder you is all foods except like cabbage grilled chicken. and hot sauce but that's basically what I mean he was the fittest guy but it was for a reason I want to tell the Blake story

Blake Neff who's sitting right here and it's just a story that just explains who he really was and there's so much that goes on in Washington and political world that's so treacherous and cruel and anti-human

and Charlie just stood against all of that not simply in public but in private and I had a window into one of the amazing stories of bravery and forgiveness it's just an incredible story and it's about you again it makes me emotional thinking about but anyway

I don't think it's ever really been told sorry to make you emotional it's an amazing story I might get emotion about this Blake story too because I and I don't want to I'm not going to ruin the punchline here but I would just say

I one of these strongest testaments to Charlie is the fact that this guy's a tough judge and I know Oh, I know. He worked for me. And when he first started working with us, I could tell that he was a little unsure. You know, you probably had the questions you're back.

Charlie spoke the language of the people, and you're a Dartmouth kid that's a total egghead nerd, you know, like beautiful mind kind of person. And but Charlie would cut through all that and he would speak right to the people and cut people's hearts in two and make them choose the side they were going to go. Go on. And that was not the language of Blake Neff, but we needed a Blake Neff. and I knew we needed a Blake Neff and I just there was this moment where I forget why

but you took this moment and I remember being really touched by it and you paid Charlie a tremendous compliment and I knew it was like two years after the fact and it and it was I Charlie texted me like directly he goes whoa did you hear

did you hear Blake like because it really meant the world to him that he had won your respect and it really meant the world to him Yeah, South Dakota Germans aren't big on compliments. But I do think that, so if you get one from Blake, it's earned, I do think the question that people had about Charlie, the question I got most often,

and people came to me a lot about Charlie. Like, what is this? Because they knew that I knew him and that I was friends with them. But really the core question everyone wanted answered was, is this guy for real? Is this real? Because like nothing in our world's real. It's all fake, actually.

And I hate to say it, but it's true. A lot of preachers are very fake. And I would always say, amazingly, it's 100% real. It's totally real. And I remember talking to you about that. I mean, everyone, like, what is this exactly? And you concluded early. I remember when you told me, no, no, it's totally real. That's incredible. You really have to have lived in our world for a while to know how wild that is. Because most people are just like, yeah, of course it's real. Not in political world. Is that fair? Very fair. Very fair. And he's like the realest guy to ever live practically. I know. I know. Oh, it makes me sad. He's gone. I wish I had said this in public before he left because I said it many times in private. I will say that to many people. Who is this guy? Is this real? Like, what is this? And I would always say, man, if you had dinner with him, you would know. It's real. So, yeah, the floor is yours. I know where you're going. Oh, this is a Blake Neff story. Okay, so this is a story that obviously I was in the middle of it and I've talked to a lot of people just this week about it. I don't think it's ever been told in public. I'm going to give the outline and then just turn it over to Blake to correct me and to fill in the details. But here's the story.

So Blake worked for me at Fox News for years, probably more closely than anybody, like intimately at Fox. And I love Blake. And Blake is obviously an unusual person, but just a wonderful person and a really deeply decent person. I mean, it's true. And obviously, yeah, Blake's weird, but like Blake is the best. And people who love Blake really love Blake. and there's a little group of people who, you know, we all know each other, we all talk about Blake.

So Blake got caught up right at the height of all this insanity, true insanity called cancel culture, but it was more than that. It was like French Revolution stuff. And someone like, you know, Blake is naughty. Blake is a racist. Well, actually, as I would always say, Blake is actually not a racist.

And I would admit it. He's not. He's a Christian who believes that God created everybody. So he's actually not a racist. But Fox overreacted, of course. And he left. And then Fox denounced him. tried to get me to denounce him.

Suzanne Scott tried to make me denounce Blake and I refused something I'm proud of. But whatever, it was just awful. It was a saddest moment in the 15 years that I spent there. And then Blake's unemployed and unemployable. And I get this and I feel terrible and I feel like I've got a moral obligation to help Blake. But who's going to hire Blake? Because he's like in the New York Times. It's like a bad person when actually he's a great person.

Charlie Kirk calls me. He's like, I'm thinking about hiring Blake. I was like, God bless you, Charlie. What's he like? said, well, Blake's very eccentric, like, no kidding. He's the only person who ever lost weight eating junk food. Like, he's a really unusual person. Like, we talk about Blake all day long.

But he's a wonderful person, and he's incredibly talented. No one disputes that, and I think you should do it. He does. Charlie and I talk about it. Then Blake and I talk about having these, like, conversations behind the scenes about each other. And not only does Charlie hire Blake, he puts us, makes me more sure, he puts Blake on the air, as if to say, I know this man. he is a good man you will judge me for doing this i'm doing it anyway because it's the right thing to do and then of course it becomes this whole thing where blake is like a true asset to him

but when he first did it it was like no i'm doing this because it's the right thing to do this is the last thing i'll say before training over to blake i've been in this business my whole life nobody does that nobody does that everyone's like oh i'm for free speech or whatever until it hurts me at which point like sorry pal good luck but charlie pivoted against that in a way that exposed him and his group turning point to ridicule and risk and he did it anyway and all week I've been talking to people about this like that was the acid test

those of us in this business know how brave that was who's the bravest thing anyway sorry Blake I remember talking to you about that because I actually was weighing another employment option and I was going as you said I was like I joined I think you maybe were behind that one too I was I was desperate to get another option

and I remember just I won't say what it was for but we were talking about it And I think the one that you really pointed out, that was really important. He's like, Blake, I think the most important thing, like, Charlie is a for real, a sincere Christian. Yes. And I think you're going to want to work for someone who is a for real, sincere, deeply believing Christian. And, you know, because then you'll disagree on a lot of things, but you will align on really important things. Yes.

And I think that was what carried the day with me. And I'm very glad it did. and you know at the time as he said it was like at the time I came in he was just a very different person and it was over time realizing all the ways that as you say he's like you have to really see it

you're like is this for real you and I talked about this is this going to work it would also have that where you're like this can't possibly work right and it does and it does because he's so completely

intently sincere and fully all in on it. And I think that's what, like, amazed young people, like, you know, when you'd go to these campus events, and, you know, I think there's a lot of, you know, you'll see these people online who are, like, very, like, performatively trad or Christian or whatever, because it, like, owns the libs or whatever. Yeah, exactly.

But Charlie is just like, no, no, I, like, 100% believe in this. Like, because I believe it is true and because it is important, and I want everyone else to believe in it because it is true, and I think it is the most important decision they will ever make. and it would always shine through in what he was doing and how he behaved that he really believed that

and well and I mean I think and you know this because you were at some of the campus stops I was at some of the campus stops 90% of the interactions as he got older right the the brand of Charlie was almost cemented you know in 2018

where he was much younger and he was like a peer to the kids on college and he would say Charlie Kirk destroys the lives or whatever and that was just titling it wasn't actually in charlie's heart but the charlie by the way didn't determine the titles you know like people behind the scenes no behind the scenes that's you know that's a social media team that's doing the titling that wasn't charlie picking the title you know anyways but the point is as he got older he transitioned to a much more big brother and and people started observing like this incredible herculean patience that he would

exhibit in these interactions with sometimes bad faith people, but sometimes people that just had bad ideas. And 90% if you went and sat there and watched the entire three hour prove me wrong, 90% of it has him being kind and gentle and thought provoking and working through whatever was the lie that was stuck in this kid's head or sometimes professors, but he would work with them through it and use the Socratic method to draw out the truth. And it was a beautiful thing. And, you know, he doesn't get nearly enough credit for that because the Charlie destroys the libs clip goes mega viral, right? I couldn't agree with you more. I have to say when you, when all that happened to you, I just cannot say how pain, well, you know, because you've talked about how many times, but that was like one of those painful things that's ever happened to me in my life.

Because, you know, we have such a tight staff and the same staff. Like, I don't have new people working for me really ever. And I don't care to. So that was really, really painful. Oh, go ahead. And I just wanted you to have health insurance. My expectations for you were so low because you had been so mistreated and maligned and slandered. And it's just so hard to come back from that.

The fact that he puts you on the air is so... Possibly a mistake. Why? It was not a mistake, but it was... That is so wild. So I have an insight into that piece of the story because I was aware of this other job opportunity and I see it now all is like God's plan and I was working on kind of a panel show idea but I didn't have that it was just like a nugget of an idea it was back in my head

and and I remember kind of just intuiting that in order to like restore this man that had been so wronged by Oliver Darcy or whatever in CNN these scumbags I thought you know I need to forgive Oliver Darcy thank you for reminding me as we forgive those who trespass against us He needs to be a daily rotation. So, but, you know, and by the way, I saw, I ended up in that moment in that when we were talking with Blake at the beginning, I looked back at your monologue from that night. Maybe it wasn't your monologue. Maybe it was the finish, final segment, but you said, you really were defiant, and it was beautifully done because you were back at, you, they, you were part of something and only had so much control at that moment, right? And so they were bullying me, Suzanne Scott got me, I was in the parking lot of a place in, I was in Bozeman, Montana,

fishing and she called me and I went outside to do my pre-show bathroom break always outside if I can do it and she called me and she said you need to say what he said was wrong and I said I'm not doing that period and you can fire me and the show's live and Timmons I'm not doing that and she goes well I guess I can't make you and she until the day she fired me she never really talked to me after that yeah I'm not trying to get into any of that but I do believe that oh I want to get into it it was horrible what they did to him I I'm just saying, I will, I don't know where to go with, I will say, Tucker, this is awkward for me. Sorry, sorry. No, no, no. I would just say that I think this moment has profoundly changed all of us,

including people like Suzanne. And I just want to say briefly for what it's worth, she's been exceedingly wonderful and kind. And we all changed. And I've done crappy things, a lot of crappy things in my life. So I shouldn't be. Yeah. But to your point, your hands were tied in that moment. And you, you defiantly said, I remember you said, I just want everybody. to know that you are gloating over a young man's life being ruined and shame on you you basically you you I'll never forget that and I remember thinking okay like if Tucker's got his back in this moment this guy's pretty great and he's the best yeah and he's been the best and I love having boy they came out of nowhere man I'll never forget that I'll never forget that as long as I live

but anyway the point is whatever and I shouldn't even have brought up the fox exactly and by the way and now look at this this show is going on Erica Kirk has demanded that the show goes on and we're going to figure out the details and Blake is going to be critical to that and if we hadn't have created this this roster this thought crime crew that we do on Thursdays I don't know what we would do but it takes the bravery of an individual to get there so like everything is fine now and Blake can do whatever he wants and people know who he is because they get to see him and they can make their own judgments about him but when Charlie made that decision and he's the one who would have been blamed if it had gone wrong people didn't know who Blake was apart from what

they read in the New York Times. Slander devised by CNN and Oliver Darcy. That's a fact. And not helped by a lot of other people who I shouldn't be attacking you. Right. Sorry about that. But he's the one who allowed Blake's life to continue. And I just, I felt it so strong because I've been, that's my world. Like, I know what that is. And most people were like, well, you know, you can't put him on air. Like he did bad things. I heard that. And Charlie was like, he was willing to stand up with them and say no that's not true like most people are not going to do that no one will do that and um what i remember the nasty articles we there was a few and charlie would just write back l-o-l so that's courage in case you're wondering what courage is that's actual courage and you know

that it is because it's so rare nobody does that if if people do that who are they i live in this world like i know every single person hosting every single show and they don't do that and he did that And so that's what actual courage is. Courage is standing up for what is true in the service of other people, in the service is showing love to other human beings. That's the commission that we get from Jesus, period. And he actually did that at great risk to himself. And anyway, just I've had like 50 text exchanges about this all week.

Anyway, bless you, Blake for being at the center of them. Thanks for standing with us. Thank you. Thank you very much. Genuinely. Can I say something that you told me, that the night of that blew my mind and it go for it go for it so we're bringing

Blake to the prank here we were we were in Provo the night of and it was like we were all shell-shocked and Blake was there with them when it happened and we filter in late at night into this little like corner of the restaurant the hotel in Salt Lake City and

And I don't know how it came up, but Blake says the most, I will never forget it. He said, Charlie gave me my life back. Yep. And I knew exactly what he meant. And now I think the audience does too. Amen. Our dear friend's seat remains open with the golden EIB microphone in front of it, his hero rush. It's pretty amazing.

And so Tucker, this is this is the Tucker. show for Charlie and so I think it's important that I get to ask you a question okay when did you meet Charlie and tell us about how your relationship with Charlie grew because I think it's so I met Charlie when he was a teenager he was connected to funded by a close friend of ours called foster freeze who's a wonderful man from Wilmington Delaware well really from Wisconsin but lived in Wilmington then Jackson Wyoming um and was an investor and a company that that we had and more important, like an actual friend, really the only investor I've ever had in anything.

And in a very enthusiastic Christian man. And the kind of person was just a collector of people. You know, I met this person, he was so enthusiastic. And almost everybody around him was just wonderful. But because he was so rich and so generous, he did collect, there were phonies in the orbit because there always are when someone's rich, right? And so he tells me at dinner about this kid he's met.

He's only 18. he's not going to college. I've always been opposed to college in my whole wife. I tried to convince all my kids not to go. I mean, I really meant it. And so he's like, you would love this guy. He's not going to college.

And I was like, man, I love that because I really am opposed. And I mean it. And I'm like, he sounds great. And he's like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And I'm thinking, oh, man, some fast-talking kid has confused. You know, it was like throwing back Reagan quotes

or something at poor Foster. You know, who was in his 70s and like late 60s. And he doesn't know. And I really thought, assumed that Charlie was just some predator, and I didn't like it at all. And, of course, there's the bias against young people. I mean, Charlie's literally the age of one of my children. So, like, and I felt it's probably totally conventional telling old people what they want to hear,

suck him up to the donors, whatever. So I meet him. I thought he was smart as hell, but I was very skeptical. Then I have this, he calls me, would you do an event? Sure, I was going to be in the state anyway, so I'd do it. And we have this kind of sort of debate, not really a debate. Well, what actually happened was I was going to give a speech. And I got there.

We were backstage. He's like, well, actually, let's just do a Q&A. And I was like, I don't know, son. I don't think you want to do that with me because I'm kind of a jerk, you know, which I am in those settings, right? So he's like, no, no, no, I want you. We can, it's okay to have a debate. I was like, I don't know, man. Like, I disagree with your views on economics and foreign policy.

And I'm pretty hot on these topics. So I'm just letting you know that. no problem at all. So we end up having this kind of intense thing. And I'm like passionately opposed to marijuana and drugs. I'm just having used a lot of drugs as a child. Like I'm very opposed to drugs. Charlie never used any drugs in his whole life. And he was at the time, he was kind of libertarian on the subject. And I remember saying everyone in the crowd is for weed. Like you think you're so cool. But actually it's a control device designed to make you passive and accepting of the system that's destroying you. And people

kind of booed me or whatever, but Charlie looked at me like, hmm, I think that may be right. And that, it was that issue. It was weed of all issues. You know, it's not my top issue, but I do feel it really strongly. I hate marijuana, okay? And I know it's really cool, but no, it's like fully corporate, actually. And it's wrecking Americans, especially boys. It's wrecking the parking lot of the grocery store nearby. It makes me feel like getting my gun. Like, I really feel that way about it. Sorry, I shouldn't say that, but I really am mad about it. And Charlie grooved with that and that moment set off this like conversation so i was back i was in arizona for something he's like let's go to lunch let's go to dinner and we started having all these really intense conversations

and started putting him on fox and his views were changing and mine were too by the way it's not like i converted him it's like i had been all kinds of embarrassing things during the scope of my long life a libertarian a self-described neocon can you imagine i mean i'll admit it i like got mad at alex jones for asking questions about 9-11 what like i was like a hard person or very close-minded person. I was totally wrong about everything. And so I didn't judge. Like, you should change your mind as the evidence changes. The things you thought were going to work didn't. An honest man asked himself why they didn't work and what might work. Like, that's the process of adulthood. And Charlie, young people are very inflexible about what they

believe I have found. I have a lot of young people. I have a lot of children. He was one of only young people I've ever met who was like, oh yeah, I think I was wrong. And only belief in Jesus allows you to say that because you know that you're not judged. You know that honesty is the ticket and that if you pursue an honest path, you'll be okay. And you don't need the adulation from the crowd. You don't need the love of strangers to feel good about yourself because you know that you are loved. It gives you true freedom. And he had that. Charlie had no problem at all getting up and being like I was a neocon and of course with me he didn't because he knew that i was too i'm like cheering on the iraq war which i did like i literally did that and i'm ashamed of

it but i'm also proud to admit it because i think that it's important to let people know that you can admit being wrong it's okay it's all right we're people we're not gods you can be wrong i want you to know tucker that that must have gone deep because blake can attest of all the fringe issues that he knew he was on the unpopular side he was very very vehemently against wheat

oh he went hard on it yes I just I think it you really got at it where you know one he was totally afraid of being in a huge minority on an issue and being frank about it you know people would ask and he'd be like they'd ask him about like abortion and he'd be like look you know my position

on that is a tiny minority in the United States and I'm going to keep trying anyway and he'd say that on, you know, gay marriage where the polls would say, you know, a big majority support it and all of that. And at the same time, yeah, the zero, like, shame about if he had to change his views. You see that so often with politicians. Well, actually, that was a different situation. You know, I voted that way because, you know, it wasn't like that. And he'll just be like, oh, no, I was wrong.

I, you know, I hadn't thought about this. But you can't be controlled. If you will, so this is how the media control politicians. They find some clip if the politician saying something different 10 years ago, it's like, Well, it was a different country 10 years. He would do that. We would see these clips, you know, these really like, they'd be like, look at here's Charlie defending, you know, this issue.

And I would be like, oh, Charlie, they dug up that old clip. And he goes, oh, yeah, that was back when I was a cuck. 100%. And, you know. But there's no shame in that. And Charlie's example of admitting the truth about himself in public is the most edifying and important thing you can ever do because it shows people. You can take the leash off.

and you can live in freedom because you know you're loved you can tell the truth we're all going to die anyway is that this is the deepest truth and your job is to be honest and to be loving to other people okay that's your job only belief in god allows that and once you do it it's like it's not only fine it's great it's actual liberation you said that i remember at the first am fest when you came back. So you had the debate and then you came back. The unplanned debate. Oh, I remember feeling so honored that you came back. It was our first Amfest and we really needed like somebody of your caliber and your, I'm going to say it, your fame, your, your, your, your, the weight that you held in the movement, especially, I mean, it was an honor to us to have you there. Oh, I was so excited.

It came out the first night and you, and you just said, let me say a few words about Charlie. He's willing to change his mind he's willing to adapt and and i knew that was your subtle nod to people who might have judged you maybe you weren't even thinking that but it felt like it was at least saying like listen i know some of you think charlie's a certain way let me tell you from that 2017 or whatever 18 debate to now it was i think it was 2021 like a couple years had gone by since we'd had you back and and then we you know you've been back ever since but it was it's it's so important i just can't say it enough to be honest about yourself it's very easy to be honest about everybody else oh you're fat i don't like your dress like that's super easy it's very hard to be honest about yourself like i'm fat

i'm wearing an ugly dress like no one wants to admit that but once you do you the fetters are off and you are so free and charlie just live that i feel like that's almost one of the most important things is to admit the truth about yourself and then no one can control you what can say about me that I won't readily concede about myself like nothing and then what are you going to do to me? You know nothing oh it's amazing

I can hear you just fine can hear me? You read that poem a week ago about Charlie and I always think about that other one you know it's a much more famous one if by Rudyard Kipling and it really does just perfectly described Charlie you know if you can you know speak with

kings but not lose the common touch exactly and the really one the one the the one that ends the poem, which you don't hear quoted as much. If you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds distance. I can only do the first day half hour. But he really did encapsulate all,

like everything of that poem about what it is to be a true man, to be a true adult, to be a heroic figure. Yeah, you want me to read it? Yeah, go for it. Yeah. Okay. If you can keep your head,

when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you. If you can trust yourselves when all men doubt you. Exactly. Yourself. But make allowances for their doubting too. If you can wait and not be tired by waiting or being lied about, don't deal in lies. Or being hated, don't give way to hating. And yet don't look too good nor talk too wise. If you can dream and not make dreams your master, if you can think and not make thoughts your aim if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same exactly if you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken twisted by

knaves to make a trap for fools or watch the things you gave your life to broken and to stoop and build them up with worn out tools if you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss if you can force your heart and nerve and sine you to serve your turn long after you are gone and so hold on when there is nothing in you except the will which says to them hold on if you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue or walk with kings nor lose the common touch if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you if all men count with you but none too much

if you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run yours is the earth and everything that's in it and which is more you'll be a man my son it's incredible and the line that jumps out to me which is the truest and everyone I think understands it at some point If you can treat triumph and disasters, those two impostors the same. They are impostors, actually, because, you know, I'm not trying to reach the meaning from the human experience. It is meaningful, but it's not, it's not the real point, actually.

And there is a sense in which this is, it just stands out to me how many of those things we just referenced in the past hour. Yeah, and being lied about, don't deal in lies. That's the one thing that I kept thinking about. If you can wait and not be tired, no, or being lied about, don't deal in lies or being hated. give way to hating and you know but winning is the real trap winning is the trap that that's where men destroyed themselves that's what that was he and i talked about that recently all the time well yeah but winning is when you decide that you're god that's the david moment for most men surviving triumph is is the real trick and so few can do it and he could

i think it's a beautiful thank you for bringing that actually blake has brought two poems to us this week that I'm the egghead I mean that one from World War I was the name of that poem For the Fallen Blake can read poetry in a very heterosexual way which is amazing

Are you saying that I just did it in the non? No no no no no that was so straight it was unbelievable I'm just saying you don't meet a lot of guys who are like I want to share some poetry with you I've never been accused I have a unblemished record of heterosexuality and you know it's funny I'm stealing that line from Charlie Kirk

He would always say I have an unblemished record of heterosexual. But you don't get enough credit for something. I just want people to understand that Tucker, I mean, I've seen you backstage, I don't know, more times than I can count now. And you are the exact same with the guy who's taking out the trash as our PAs and our assistants and the people in between as you are with Charlie or me or Blake. You are the exact same human. and I really want everybody to know that about you because you wouldn't say it about yourself. You treat everybody.

I can't tell you how many times that has occurred to me because I'll be needed to drag you somewhere where you need you to go, but you're deep into a conversation in the corner with, you know, the assistant. Like, I don't even know that I necessarily do the name of this because we have so many employees right. And you would just be like engrossed in this deep conversation and I would feel bad, you know, oh, we got to grab Tucker, he's got to go on.

stage in like five minutes or something and I love that about you man and I just want the world to know well thank you no I mean I love people and I you know God created everyone but it's also true that I grew up in rich people world back when it was in egalitarian world it's one of the main changes in my countries in my lifetime is that rich people are not egalitarian anymore but I grew up you know an affluent family around rich people and you know the housekeeper comes to Thanksgiving dinner period period and that's a wasp thing I'm just going to say it out loud that's a wasp thing and that's gone. But we felt that very, very strongly.

And I just think that's right. You know what? It's not gone because we still believe it. And you still believe it. I really believe it. I really believe. I'll just say one thing. Everyone hates the wasps and I beat up on them constantly. But in the club that I spent my life at, I don't even know if there are clubs anymore,

but the only thing you could do to get booted from the club was to be rude to the staff, period. You could be drunk. They're always drunk, of course. You could be, you know, whatever you could say anything. But if you were rude to a waiter, you were gone. I mean, they wouldn't even have a hearing about it because so deep was the culture on that question. It's that you, we are all underneath it all the same. We're all created by God.

We have different aptitudes or language. We're very different in a lot of ways. But fundamentally, we're all going to stand alone before God. And that was the idea that spawned to the Democratic Republic that we grew up in anyway. That's the core idea of America that is never articulated anymore. we didn't have fast track at Disney World when I was growing up and I still feel that way and I'm married to a chick who really feels that way I mean really feels you get married in my family

and the guy who cuts our grass is coming to your wedding whether you like it or not like that's that's the rule in my house I love that I'm not saying that to make myself sound virtuous it's just like that is something that we have lost and we have to fight to regain that and all these are like little fake aristocrats flying around in their planes it's one of the reasons I really am upset with them is because they've forgotten that specific thing. Charlie wanted better elites.

Oh, yes. And yeah, I mean, you model it, and it's not gone because we're talking about it right now, and maybe we can bring it back. In the spirit of actually doing a show, we have a... Sorry, it's like one of my exceptions. I have this great clip that I can't wait to share with everybody,

but we're going to bring in Frank Turek, who cross-talk. He was with. Charlie on the day. Charlie, he would go to Frank with ideas of apologetics and how to argue for the faith and contend for the faith in the public square. So Frank, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show with Tucker Carlson, the great Tucker Carlson with us. Hey, I just want to piggyback on something Tucker just said. The only worldview that agrees with what Tucker just said is Christianity. You know, in Hinduism, there's a caste system. In Islam, if you're not a Muslim,

you're a second-class citizen. In the secular world, there's no way to ground these moral values and the moral worth that every individual has. The only worldview that does that is Christianity, and that was the worldview that Charlie and everybody here at this table right now wants to demonstrate is true and try and persuade young people to follow. I love that you said that. I think that that is indisputably true. I think it's provable. I mean, you know, the founding documents still exist. We know what the people who wrote them were thinking, and they were informed by a culture that is a product of Christian civilization, period. Western civilization is Christian civilization. And I'm not against other religions, by the way. I don't follow them, but I'm not mad at them.

I'm just going to want to say that. I'm not. I know a lot of great people who are of different faiths, but Christianity is unique in that it's true. And it's unique in that it believes that every person is at least potentially chosen by God, every person. And the Holy Testament is that story, by the way. And so Christians feel that deeply. The cultures that they create reflect it. And I grieve its passing. And I pray for its return to our country. Well, ironically, Tucker, Charlie's martyrdom might be the turning point to bring it back. I don't know. Well, you do know because you're seeing. and what's going on at TPUSA right now.

Yes. How many people want to start TPUSA chapters? What are we up to now, Andrew? Is it $62,000, something like that? Yeah, I mean, it's growing by the minute. So it's probably, let's just say, approximately $65,000. It's, we had, we had $2,000 before that. I mean, I'm, I'm seeing people online on, on some YouTube videos that have to do with Charlie,

some of my own YouTube videos. They're all over the, world there's people in denmark going you know i was an atheist and because of charlie kirk i'm a christian now australia same thing london same thing this isn't just in america this is happening all over the world and so i want to commend every one of you for advancing the cause that charlie so uh was so near and dear to charlie's heart in a time of morning it's got to be so difficult andrew and blake especially to uh to continue on but charlie would want it and that's why we're all here right now well and frank i you know bless you i know you've

had to deal with the conspiracy theories and the you know why'd you touch your hat at this time because you know that wretched video i mean but bless you brother i just want to be uh i just want to be a character reference for you and uh charlie loved you so much you were always there for charlie and i know how much he leaned on you for apologetics and for thinking through these deep issues you know around when he was on bill mar recently and you know you you've meant so much to him and your work at cross-examine like you are a dear brother and a dear friend and some of that garbage like i don't even paid any heed but i know you uh have you were there the day that it happened I know this has been terrible for you, too, and you've had to deal with all this garbage,

but, you know, God bless you, and I'm sorry that that has been something in your experience. Thanks, brother. I mean, that's, that actually hasn't bothered me all that much to tell you the truth. I just think it's so colossally stupid that if somebody wanted to shoot somebody, they need a guy standing 25 feet from him to signal. Hey, get him. He's the guy. I mean, he's, it makes absolutely no sense at all.

So it was just a terrible day, but we all did the best we could to try and help and save Charlie. And then once we couldn't, all we could do was take Erica's lead and your lead, Andrew, and Mikey's lead, because you were all there, to march forward and take his legacy to new levels. And Lord willing, that's what's going to happen. Well, Frank, you're going to be a key part of that. and um you know i i i joke with erika i'm like erika he left us all the keys he had all the people that we needed all the all the reference points all the all the true allies not the snakes not the not the the the grifters the true people and you are a true man and you have great character and you have great heart and you've been a great friend to charlie and to us so you know thank you brother

as you as you have to me a thousand times over thank you but um Let's just do it whatever we can to advance this legacy now. And that, you mentioned it, Erica, and I, do you want to hit? I do want to hit that because, you know, there have been reference, I know that a lot of stuff going on online. I've checked out, actually, just want to say that because it's too upsetting to me. I know it's extremely upsetting for you guys since you're way more in the middle of it than I am. But obviously you need a fair, impartial, well-explained investigation that assures everyone the rule. of law lives in the United States. I think it's essential. And I hope that we get it. I think

we're going to have to push for it. We should push for it. But as to what happened, again, totally fair in my view to ask sincere questions. But I think it's important to remember the big picture, which is whatever happened, it was a species of the same phenomenon, which was the fight of evil against good. And his murder was an attempt to extinguish the light, period. And it didn't work. Like, that's the main thing to know. There are lots of things I want to know. And again, we have a civil system that has to go through a process in order for this government to continue or any government. It has to be transparent and motivated by good faith. And it has to try to affect justice.

That's a key. And I don't think we should blow past it. However, again, big picture, this is light versus dark. And you feel the darkness all around us. It comes in many different forms and many different guises. These are disguises. okay but what it really is is the age old you know it's the it's the lord of the earth it's it's satan sorry to say that it is deliver us from the evil one i think is the actual

translation in the word's prayer and the evil one is all around us but charlie's murder is a reminder that we are surrounded by god and god's protection and god's love and that is so obvious the light has not only not been extinguished it's glowing brighter i hate like dumb metaphors like that, except this one is totally real. And so we should, or I speak for myself, I'm going to focus on that. I'm going to focus on the big picture while demanding a precise accounting. That is legitimate. But I'm not going to get so caught up in that stuff that I miss the true message, which is forces of darkness tried to extinguish the light, and not only did they fail, their effort was counterproductive. That is the truth.

Frank, I was just, sorry, I got, I was in sort of wrapped by what you were saying. Sorry, I felt that. I felt it coming up. I couldn't keep it down. It was beautiful. I was looking for somebody else to respond here quickly. Well, let me mention something related to that. You know, our mutual friend James Lindsay had a text exchange with Charlie.

In fact, he sent it to me the other night because I was speaking at a university here in North Carolina on one Wednesday night about Charlie. And I related this story. And let me just, let me just read you what James sent to Charlie and what Charlie sent back. Very astute response by Charlie. James said, this is August 24th, 2023. Communism is by far the best evidence in support of Satan's existence. Charlie writes back 100%. And then the next text, he writes back, if there is a Satan, then there is a God.

And James writes back, that would follow. So evil actually shows that God does exist, not that he doesn't, because there'd be no such thing as evil unless there was good, and there'd be no such thing as good unless God existed, because in any objective sense, the only way you can define good is God's nature. Otherwise, everything's a matter of opinion. You couldn't say murder was really objectively wrong unless there's a standard of objectively right that we're all obligated to obey, and what we mean by that is God's nature. And as Tucker pointed out earlier, our founders understood that. We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men were created and endowed by their government. No, it doesn't say that. Endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. So if evil exists and we all know it does, we saw it eight days ago, then God exists.

Well, and that is honestly, the way that a lot of us were convinced of the reality of God was by being forced to acknowledge the reality. of evil. I can say that for myself. My wife, who's like the person who keeps our family text chain grounded in the truth, sent a verse this morning that basically said that exact thing. And there are a number of them throughout both Old and New Testaments, as you know better than I, but that say that God will use evil for his purposes and that he will reveal himself through sadness as well as joy. And that is practically true. It's not even a theoretical concept. It's a living concept for those of us who concluded just on the

of the evidence that these were not political differences actually, these were not political phenomenon. These were a bunch of different things. I won't get specific, but you know what I'm talking about. This is the face of evil. And that brought us to the reality of God. It's like wild. That actually happened. It happened to me. I'm loving all of this because it's making my head spinning. So I want to say one thing about, I want everybody to know. And I know, Blake, you've been contemplating this too but Charlie was willing to give the very last measure of his effort and his life he really was and he said it multiple times and I think the first time he said it on stage he you know it wasn't something that was planned it came out of him

naturally and Erica heard it and Erica was like you be careful when you say that please you know and that's really powerful but he said it again and again he said it on a lance walnau show i remember one time saying like you know i mean and he was very aware of the story of stephen he was very well aware of the prophets and he was very well aware that people were that wanted to hurt him and it never stopped him and and think we need to remember that when we when we think about evil and we think about because death where is your victory oh death where is your sting it's the last thing that you know it's like you said it they tried they meant it for evil but the lord is taking it and he's turning it to good

and for the saving of many lives and i always was caught by that wording in the scriptures the saving of many lives obviously he's talking about the Israelites in that instance but it as we contemplate it for our own moment, the saving of many lives. And I think about all these baptisms and all these reports of the churches being overflowing and across the country and these, we didn't riot, Tucker, we didn't burn businesses, we didn't tear down windows and doors. We prayed. And that is the biggest, most amazing testament to the character of Charlie Kirk. But it's also the nature of, or it has been my experience anyway. I'm not a theologian, but I just will say that the, I've had many moments to

especially in the last 10 years where, boy, you can feel it around you, like for real. You can feel the menace. You can feel the hate. You can feel the threat. It comes out of nowhere. I've had a couple pretty intense experiences with it, very intense. And they are followed invariably by the peace of God, by the Holy Spirit. And you know that God is using this moment for your benefit, your edification, and your joy.

That is true that out of tragedy, and it's such a cliche and it's such a kind of syrupy, hallmarked false assurance. on the surface that I hesitated even to say it, but I've just lived it so much. I've lived it so much. That is absolutely how God has communicated with me in my life, like directly, is by contrasting his presence with the evil that you feel around you. And so it is in a weird way in the middle of tragedy, like a true blessing. And if you see a loved one, you know, we all go through this as we age. I've been through it a lot recently where someone you really, really love dies. And then you're just filled with this sense of the presence of God that's absolutely real. It's not, you're not manufacturing it. It's not like an immune response or something. It's like

a presence from outside coming into you. And I think the whole country feels it, or the people who are alive to it feel it now, strongly. In fact, the greatest evil of all time, the sacrifice of Jesus has led to the greatest good. Without the sacrifice of Jesus, we'd all be dead in our sins. But Christ was sacrifice so that our punishment could be put on him and when we trust in him we're not only forgiven but we're given his righteousness you know there's a misunderstanding among some they think in order to get to heaven i got to be good no no no no no there's nobody good enough jesus said there's nobody good but one and that was him but in order to get to heaven you need to take his sacrifice and apply it to yourself you need to take the punishment that went on him

And you trust in him to get that forgiveness because your punishment was put on him. And then by trusting in him, you're not only forgiven, you're given his righteousness. So good works are a result of Christianity. They're not the cause of Christianity. The cause of Christianity in someone's life is to trust in what Christ is done. And out of love for what Christ is done, then you'll do good works. By the way, I'm really struck by a quote from Peter Kreft, who, said this about what evil can do in our lives to help us become more like Christ. He said this.

He said, the point of our lives is not comfort, security, or even happiness, but training, not fulfillment, but preparation. This world is a lousy home, but it's a fine gymnasium. Well, Frank, I just want to say again, I know you've got to catch a flight here. So God bless you, my friend. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for being such a rock in Charlie's life. I'll say it. You don't have to give them any heat. I'm sorry about the conspiracy theories specifically around you and some of my other friends that were around the table. They are utter garbage. And we stand by you 100% my friend. And just thank you for being just an amazing guy. And you meant so much to Charlie. And we'll see you in a few days. Thank you, brother. Thank you, Tucker.

Thank you, Blake. God bless you guys. Thank you. So Charlie was very well aware of the existence of evil obviously so we're us on his team you know there's a by the way just one other conspiracy theory i just want to snuff out here one of our dear friends that literally from the very beginning started with us and loved charlie like a brother he grabbed the SD cards out of the camera afterwards and there's all these conspiracy videos about why did he grab the SD cards well first of all they're in the possession of the FBI okay It's not like he took them and, like, ran off with them. Second of all, I asked him personally.

I said, why did you do that? And he looked at me, and this was his answer. He said, because I know people can be evil. And he did not want that footage being grabbed by somebody. There was videos of people after the incident going and stealing hats off the table. I mean, so I'm so grateful he did that. And that that was his instinct. He's like, I'm depressed to know that that was why I did that.

But I knew that I had to protect that footage. because I know I wanted I mean you know you're recording in like 4k you know and so I'm so glad he did that but Charlie knew the existence of evil and so can I say I think that people can feel the existence of evil and that just to put in a sympathetic word for people who are trying to make sense of this and coming to the wrong conclusions I think they're motivated for the most part by pure intent I think they don't trust the authorities you have every reason to feel that way I know that for a fact not the Trump administration in general like yeah yeah yeah we're not you know there's been a lot of lying and it's corroded the trust that's not their fault actually

they're the victims of it and they're of course bad actors who are doing it for clicks or whatever but i guess but there are far more people who love charlie they loved what he stood for they feel like he was murdered by evil they're absolutely right they're not sure what variety of evil there's no authoritative person to tell them so i guess i'm just not surprised at all this message i've told to a lot of people, this is what happens when you lie too much and you hide too much. And going forward, I just want everybody with power to be honest in the way that Charlie was honest, about themselves. That will do more than anything to fix this, to make people love each other and hear each other. And if people are honest, we got here because of lying. And the only antidote is truth.

And so truth about yourself, not about other people. Stop talking about other people. admit who you are and once you do that people can feel that and they immediately as they do with Charlie they respond to it they're like I believe you

because you're honest about you anyway I want that yeah a buddy of mine just said something that I think is really profound he said two people and I believe this about you too Tucker which is why you're so important

but two people can say the same could say the same thing just imagine Charlie Kirk 30 million followers across social media and somebody else also very prominent yes and they would say the same thing but when charlie said it it would echo and ripple across the world yeah because we're all like we're all animals by the way and so so much of what we know we receive nonverbally we can smell each other we can feel the vibe i don't care if that sounds flaky it's true my dogs can do it and so can you and if a deceptive man is

speaking i don't believe what he says even if it's factually accurate and if an honest man is speaking, I know it, I can feel it. That's what everyone loves Blake, despite his eccentricities. He's not, he is honest. He's not a liar, and Charlie was the same, and we just know that. You can't dissuade me of that. I know that's true. Let's go ahead and play cut 20. This is Charlie talking about the existence of evil revealing God's presence. He as Christians, ethical monotheists, we have the problem of evil. Atheists have evil, no problem. On the atheist side, They can't say that evil actually exists because without God, if God does not exist, then we are nothing more than just a clump of cells, and there is no such thing as evil.

You only know something is evil if you have good to compare it to. If I have a piece of paper and I draw a crooked line, how do you know this line is crooked? You immediately look at it, you say that's a crooked, squiggly line, only because in your mind you know what a straight line is. If you don't believe in God, then you say evil's no problem. But if you are upset with it, you actually are implying that you believe in God. You might be angry at God. You might be wrestling with God.

You might think that God is unjust. That's a completely different thing than not believing in God. There's no one doesn't believe in God. Everyone believes in God because the spirit of God is within us because he made us. The divine spark exists whether you acknowledge it or not. So your options are three. Either you acknowledge it and try to live by it. you ignore it and numb yourself or you rage against it.

And so that would be the atheists, the agnostics, and the Christians in reverse order. And you can see them immediately. You know, the agnostics are numb. The atheists are enraged and the Christians have peace. But you don't have any other options because it's just real. It pre-exists you. And every single person feels it. Honestly, Tucker, thank you so much for making the time.

By the way, everything we've asked of you, you just said, whatever I could do. Yes, I'll clear my schedule. Yes, absolutely. And that's just how you are. And I love that about you. Well, I want to get on the road. I mean, my favorite thing that Charlie did in his professional life was get out and physically speak to people in their physical presence. I think that's so important.

I love the internet, I guess. Pretend to love the internet. I hate it. But mostly I love being with people physically and smelling them. And he was like the last person who really loved that. And he got murdered. And I just, I grieve his death, of course. But I also am really concerned.

that that whole thing will die it's so important to be there physically like ask me anything in my physical presence and so i'm doing that for you guys i'll do as much as you want because i just really believe in that well you you uh we were going to save that for monday but i so i'm not much of a planner but yeah so breaking news you guys want me to go out there i will do it yeah breaking news here Tucker Carlson uh will be a part of continuing Charlie's legacy by touring with us. Wherever you want. It'll be at least one stop.

We'll say it like that. During grouse season. And so that's like the ultimate expression of love. Talk about laying down your life. I love grouse season. Take up your cross daily. So I want to I want to pivot this conversation to Charlie's wife. Yes.

Erica Kirk. And I joked yesterday. I thought crime. I got a little you guys you guys razz me about. but I was quoting Blake and because it came out it was just this like amazing thing

and I should know better than to air private conversations publicly but Blake Erica was referenced and Blake just goes what a woman dude she's unbelievable

she's amazing I was in Phoenix flying to Phoenix or something else Charlie texted me on the plane and said I heard you come into Phoenix because he knew everybody I was like how do you know that

he goes do you have time for lunch yes nothing to do with him was not here for turning point at all and so I meet him at lunch with his girlfriend, Erica, and he wants to introduce me to her. And I called Susie, my wife after her, and I was like, because my longstanding view has been, you know, it's critical, like I really believe in marriage, but not for like syrupy reasons. Like, I think it really matters.

I was like, that chick is a star. I mean, she was just like, no, this is what's true. And that's not true. I mean, she is tough is not exactly the right word because it's from love. It's from Christian faith. It's from faith in Jesus, but it, like, oh, man, unwavering. Oh, my gosh, unwavering. And you want to know a crazy, you want to know a crazy thing I just realized last night. So Andrew Breitbart dies in 2012. March 1st. That inspires Charlie Kirk to start Turning Point USA in 2012.

Guess what else happened in 2012? And we talk about people getting prepared and these little nuggets that you think, I just realized this. Erica Kirk won Miss Arizona in 2012 and hung out with Donald Trump in 2012 because of that. And so I don't know. There are no coincidences, but you can just see how God was preparing them. And, you know, Erica as well, you know, Erica grew up with a single mom.

Yeah. And so, you know, obviously you want to try. Charlie's kids to know their father in a deep and profound personal way. But Erica is uniquely, even in the midst of that tragedy, is uniquely able to navigate that, even just conceptually and emotionally, something I've talked to her about. And it's powerful even hearing her as she's working these pieces out. And I, again, I don't want to share too much privately. So they said this publicly, and I just love it. And I shared this on Twitter X the other day and it went viral. So let's go ahead and play cut 19 one of my favorite interactions seeing charlie and erika my wife joins us erika kirk

the beautiful legendary erika i love you so much i love you you're my best friend welcome to the charlie kirk show we have asked the audience for questions you pick one who is more conservative and why erika yes by far not even close i am a moderate compared to erika and you always jokes that once you got married to me you got more based that's true That is true. No, Erica is very conservative. Do you think having kids made you more conservative? 100%, which I didn't think was possible. But 100%. Absolutely. And a better wife. Boy, that's the realest thing ever. It's hard to talk about your marriage because don't believe you. Of course, because it's like it's your wife. You can't say anything bad. But like I just know for a fact that that's true.

It's really true. Yeah. yeah and by the way i should know because i can't control myself that there was a picture of them in maine which they loved that makes me sad yeah well charlie was a bad he was bad at vacation yeah terrible at vacation so he was in maine this summer on vacation and he was i just loved how it kept like oh well okay fox and friends wants me to be to guess so so we were to take the weekend like the best days of the vacation you know where he could actually maybe and erika was just totally game for it she was like cool let's go to New York. No, they came to my house and

he's like, I want to buy a house here. I was like, oh, got to. The state needs you. It's good. I'm sorry that they didn't. It's just been amazing to hear her talk about not just their relationship, but like how as, you know, how they both viewed marriage and you know, we were saying the last, the last exchange I had with Charlie

by text message just on the way to the event. He was Blake, what are the best? What are the best? arguments for monogamy and it gets back to that you know the Christian civilization stuff we talked about because he loved all the takes I'd give him where I'm like yeah you know Christian marriage is in the Bible but it's also this like secret weapon that made the West great and like countries that follow Christian marriage like they're amazing they excel they improve they get better they have harmony between men and women far more than any other civilization he loved all of that and so I was

rattling all that off and I think the last thing I got from is he like hearted a list that I posted and 10 minutes later he was on the stage yeah yeah that was those I've looked back of those because I was on that text chain and I was chiming in and they were the last text that I exchanged with them to and it was like 30 minutes before it happened and yeah we were talking about marriage it's a that is and when they talk about you know hearing Erica talk about it where she'll say stuff that sounds unbelievable to you you know she'll be she's like people would ask me you know did you get mad at Charlie because he traveled so much and was doing so many things

And she's like, no, I didn't. And it was because we were on the same team. We were on the same mission. And I would have never wanted to in any way be hindering from executing God's mission. And he would have never wanted to fail in any way in me executing the mission God gave me. But when he was present, you know, he practiced Shabbat, not because he's Jewish, but because he needed sort of a discipline to follow. and so from sundown on on Friday

really all of Saturday it was like he was off he turned to you couldn't call him you couldn't get a hold of him I mean there was ways if an emergency happened that I could get a hold of him but and it was legit but it was legit you'd see the wave of him like

reading the things you sent on like Friday night or Saturday morning and finally blowing you up on Sunday when I'm trying to go to church all of a sudden Charlie's back on and it was just like you know and but but he he gave that time so purely and fully to his wife and kids and Erica absorbed every moment of that and I you know I told this story yesterday and I

do want to like clarify something because apparently people took it the wrong way but the night it happened she got a call from a very important person and that very important person I'm not going to say who it maybe isn't who you think but it's a very important person but asked like I you know I just have to ask, like, what do you know? And he wasn't talking about some conspiracy theory. We didn't even, they hadn't even got the shooter at this point. It's a fair question. He was asking, what do you know about turning point?

What do you know about what Charlie was doing politically? What do you know about the donors? What do you know? Like, what are we working? What's our starting point here? And she said back, I know everything. Thank God. Because Charlie would spend, they would walk and they would talk, and they would, religiously, they would walk.

Because Charlie heard his back, he couldn't run anymore. He used to run like seven to ten miles a day. When I first started working with Charlie, he would just be gone running. And he hurt his back, he couldn't do it. So they would walk together. And if you ever walked with Charlie, the guy could keep a pace. The guy, big, long legs. And they would talk, and they would lay in bed, and they would talk.

And he told, she was his vault. And she knows everything. she has the same spirit so when that was announced i heard that she was taking over i was just i was just elated it's not an attack on anyone else by the way her reference to any of the internecine battles currently going on which i'm trying to not think about it's just the the fact the provable fact that she had the same spirit and the same goals the same mission that he had that is just true just more based oh let me i just want it without you know whatever but getting into it but i just want to affirm that i just saw

that recently yet again and uh i'm just so thankful that she's taking over because it's it's a big deal i saw trump on monday he said i couldn't got elected without charlie kirk and i you know he's not prone to say things like that he meant it wow yeah it's jd said the same thing yeah with uh jesse and i know jd uh feels that and you know it's just been amazing too to see the power center, the imperial capital is Charlie always just to say, by the way, Charlie hated going to Washington, hated it. He loved being out here in Phoenix. I thought it was like our secret weapon. Well, besides you being the secret weapon, it was our secret weapon to be outside of that bubble. And yet somehow all of Washington is coming to him. You know, can I say one thing? I shouldn't even get involved in this, but it's a fact, so I want to say it. He loved J.D. Vance. He loved Donald Trump. Of course, often said it, but he really loved J.D. Manse. he would talk about in private and some of that would bubble out, you know, he loved telling

the story of the first time he endorsed him for office. And in case people haven't heard it, it's such a great story where, you know, Vance has announced he's running in Ohio for Senate. And it's a very long shot bit at this point. I think he pulled at two or three percent. He comes in, he meets

Charlie, he talks to Tyler too. And they come out and they're like, he said everything we believe. Like, we've got to endorse them. Like, if we're not going to endorse this guy, why are we even here? Exactly. And they're basically, you know, they make that commit and there's a miscommunication because it's a big open senate you know it's a big senate race and charlie's got to call a lot of donors and you know explain why we're doing this we're not going for your guy this isn't to slide on you you know manage all the other guy was

their guy for sure and instead there's a miscommunication and it just goes out like blast turning point is endorsing jd vance and it goes out way too early and he just about he's like well we all believe it and he's just like jd vans is amazing by the way that your part of that story because it was he saw jd on your show and was like he in at that point he he didn't know all the little deep things that he believed and he just he kept like i remember him saying jd's got like something there's something about jd he's got that is exactly he's got the goods and before you explain why i'm not going to get involved in this but i just saying he loved jd he loved jd he loved and by the way jd loved him and i think you can see that do you want to

put any cap on that i know you have a story to tell well i just i just want to i don't think i can emphasize it enough and again i'm really going to try because i think the point of charlie's life was following jesus i just want to say that again as someone who knew him well i think the point of his life was following jesus so i really want to help be helpful to that mission and not get distracted with the other stuff and i have distracted with the other stuff for sure because i feel strongly about it but i'm going to try and stop but i just want to say if you want to understand charlie kirk he loved J.D. Vance and Donald Trump, but he was genuinely close to J.D. like as a friend and vice versa. And that's, that is just factually true. I don't want to hurt anybody by going on, but

that is, that is true. And J.D. earned every counts of that. Yes, he did. And he loved the story and it really meant a lot to him. So we had that event in, um, it was in June and Detroit last year. In Detroit, the People's Convention we called it. I assume that was like, it was pre, it was pre him getting announced his VP and they were just starting to kind of like float his name out yeah which charlie of course very much wanted to do and you know he used all of his political talents to try to promote that um and one of those things is yeah invite him to the convention and what he always loved about it was i think it was it was his anniversary either the day before or the day after and so yeah no no it was the day before because yeah we wanted him on saturday night

to be sort of the final speaker on Saturday night and he said Charlie would love that he's like it's my anniversary I can't I have to be with my wife but I will I will commit to getting you getting there on Sunday and Charlie was like great you can be the final speaker

of the event and that gave him just enough time to get to literally just drive up there which I believe he did he personally himself drive the car and he he gets there and like you know we're used to a lot of people having you know entourages and he just shows I think he had one aide with him

there's JD yeah yeah I just walks in it's just like hey I'm JD Vance I'm a speaker I think like maybe some security guy didn't initially recognize him

no there's just JD Vance walking by himself backstage I was like I think that's where do you need me you know he's just kind of like

strolling in and like we found out he drove he's like oh yeah yeah it was just you know there's never been a less affected

politician I always promise myself I'm not going to compliment JD Vance of because I don't want to hurt him but there's never been a less affected leader

ever like period i totally agree i've i've never seen one if there is but yeah charlie people would ask charlie a lot you know are you going to run for president are you going to run for office or you know like and he would always you will not find one piece of content anywhere ever it doesn't exist where he said yeah you know what i want to be president someday he would always say he would always you know i love what i'm doing like god's called me here you know we have more impact here, you know, and that was all very true. Privately, I had that conversation with them.

And I wouldn't say he answered it with me, although that maybe there were some other instances where I caught an inclination. But what he said was J.D.'s ready. And because J.D. is running. I don't even have to think about it. I don't know if that's like, I don't know if he said, let me say. Because J.D. exists. We're going to do everything we can. He didn't say that he, you know, confirmed or anything. But because J.D. exists, I don't even have to think about it. And Charlie, you know, was such a champion of J.D.'s political talents and his future. And if J.D. does decide to do that, certainly Charlie would cheer him on from the hereafter. But, yeah, Charlie has a lot of faith in J.D. Vance. I always loved his frankness on just topics like that, you know, in the in the 20, 24 primaries.

He would just come out and he's like, well, I promised Trump that if he ran again in 24, I would support him. So that was that. Like, I made a promise. And if J.D. chooses to do that, then God bless him. And I would be here to cheer him on. I'm going to play one clip. And then Tucker, you're going to take us home. Okay?

So play cut two. This is Charlie talking about his lovely wife, Erica. My wife is the best person ever, and she's a patriot and she's a believer. And we don't want to have to be accountable to God when this life passes. and he asks, why did you not trust in me and not fight evil? Because we as Christians are called to fight evil. It's one of the lesser known scriptures, Psalm 9710. For those of you that love God, you must hate evil.

And again, everyone is called to something different in the body of Christ. Some people are called to heal the sick. Some people are called to mend broken marriages. Some people are called to do outright hot gospel teaching. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. That's it. who has that clarity of purpose you know at that age who it's such a rare gift and it i think it is a gift it's not detracting from the choices that he made but like he knew what his purpose on this earth

was he worked tirelessly to fulfill that tirelessly i can't overstate that as someone with a similar gig like i've never seen a man work harder and with greater self-sacrifice with greater self-discipline and it all flowed from his belief that this is not pointless we are there's a race that we have to run and he i mean he left us in mid-stride i thought that that night and i was heartbroken and struggling even now to control myself excuse me but i had that image that day i was on a plane when it happened of him going like that you know leaving this earth in that position in mid-stride and that is as tragic and overwhelming as it is that is such a gift like may that be the end of my life too in all of our lives to to to leave in midst of purpose

in midst of forward motion you know very few people get that and you know in this case at 31 it's unimaginable however that is something that I know that I want and I think that every person who thinks about it wants that too and so I'm I'm grateful for that well you know you have you have a special place in the the turning point family Tucker I know you know that you have you had a special place in Charlie's heart and I just want to address one thing before we go here we've got like two two and a minutes left that there was pressure put on charlie you know about you appearing at turning point oh you think and he's such a scott about it so he's just like oh you're they're putting pressure on me so i've got i've got to double down yeah he was like you know some of the some of the

funny text messages that we found since then he goes oh they don't want me to have tucker oh maybe i'll have him speak twice you know and and um and he just loved you yeah he just loved you and there was you know and it was with the hardest thing to explain to people that you know maybe didn't like your views on foreign policy or whatever didn't like my views on for what i'm trying to be diplomatic here tugger thought i should brace it embrace it um embrace it and and but i just you know charlie this was the hardest thing to explain is that like guys you don't understand like charlie's mission is three steps down he's he's keeping a coalition together he's keeping friends together he's keeping networks together he's he's a statesman and he's not going to knee-jerk and be morally blackmailed by anybody and if you do it he will double down

and you saw it in that clip my mission is to confront evil oh yes and to proclaim the truth wherever it is and and i would just tell people listen you might think one thing fine but charlie and tucker are deeply deeply on a very personal level friends and charlie is loyal oh yeah and if you've go down this route, don't be surprised when you have Tucker having three speeches on three different nights at Amfest, you know, like when I was a kid, I drove my, in high school, I drove my car into a white pine in Maine going about 40. And I remember thinking it totaled the car. And I remember thinking, wow, the treatise doesn't move. It doesn't matter how hard you hit it. And that was Charlie. He was just a towering white pine man. He was just not, it didn't matter how

hard you hit him wasn't wasn't moving i there's a few things i respect more than that well tucker it's been a pleasure one of my favorite shows and i think it was so fitting that you capped off the week and um i know you're going to be speaking uh at his celebration about jesus not politics to be clear and i'm so glad that we could take some time to talk about jesus not politics because that's the whole point well it's funny when i first started being around you the way you would talk about faith was much more reticent and reserved. And Charlie has made a convert out of you, and you are proclaiming the truth as well as any preacher I've ever heard.

So thank you, Tucker Carlson. May God bless you. God bless you. God bless the reach of your word. Thank you. Thanks so much. Talk to you soon. I'm going to be able to be.

Thank you.