The Charlie Kirk Show - Tyler Robinson Hearing Aftermath: Day 3

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

So, what actually happened in four hours of hearing today? Liz Wheeler and Jack Posobiec join to analyze the grinding back-and-forth over how much of Lance Twiggs's testimony will be shown to the public. Tayler Hansen helps debunk the desperate claims about the height of the shooter caught on camera. Viva Frei discusses the continuing appeal of alternative theories, and which are worth considering and which are not. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!    Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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mountain time. And so we lost out on half a day and it just got bogged down in a bunch of arguments, but there were some significant things that happened. Not a lot of significant things. Well, there was. There's two things and it kind of leads to a third big thing. Here to help us break this down is

Liz Wheeler, host of the Liz Wheeler show on Blaze TV. She's been doing amazing work. Really, Heroes work, Liz, on what you've been doing, just fact checking, fact checking, fact checking. Give us your perception of how it's gone so far and today. Hi, Andrew.

Hi, Blake. Yeah, my small service, you know, to honor Charlie's legacy is just to make sure that I can help untangle the truth as the truth comes out. I think the three days, especially the first two days of this preliminary hearing, the probable cause hearing, have been incredibly damning for Tyler Robinson, which is maybe not unexpected for some of us who've been tracking the facts and the evidence from day one. but it's also been a very revealing couple of days for applying these facts against the delusional conspiracies that we know have, you know, taken root among so many on our side. So when we saw the video yesterday of Tyler Robinson's movements showing up four different times on campus, that's incredibly revealing, watching him scale that staircase, seeing how easily accessible the roof is, watching him lie prone on the corner of the roof. And then the moment that the shot is fired, get up and run away, jump off that roof,

seeing him limp as if he has a rifle down his pants, which of course is the allegation. These are incredibly telling things. Hearing the testimony about the DNA that on the towel and the screwdriver, which were found on the roof, that were, you know, allegedly used by Tyler Robinson to see that the vast majority of the DNA samples on both of those items was a match for Tyler Robinson and then a small portion of the DNA found on those items was from his transgender lover Lance Twigs. These are incredibly revealing things. To see today, I think the timeline of when he turned himself in about 9 p.m. Mountain time, which would have been local time to the Washington County Police. And then seeing that juxtaposed

against when he made that confession to the discord chat that he was part of, that would have been over hour. The confession would have happened over an hour prior to him turning himself in to hear the testimony that he was then not formally arrested until they had probable cause. And that maybe happened at 4 a.m. local time. These are incredibly revealing, incredibly damning pieces of evidence against Tyler Robinson. And the thing is, this is just the preliminary hearing. This isn't even necessarily like the good stuff or the most compelling evidence. This is just enough to establish that a trial should take place. And I'm glad in a sense that America's watching because I'm glad that they can see these facts for themselves finally. And it's not only preliminary to the

actual trial. Today was practically preliminary to the evidence that even the witness was going to present because as we'll get into, a very large portion of today was extended debate, extended back and forth about what will actually be shown. So we heard this agent that interviewed, were conducted with Tyler Robinson's mother, with Tyler Robinson's father. They never really got into what was said in those interviews, only that they happened. They talked about getting this statement from Lance Twigs,

and then twice, they interviewed him twice, they said. But then we got very extended arguments about how much is going to be redacted. We got statements from the defense that basically said, if the evidence they're planning to show here is shown, it would basically be broadcasting to the world what the state will call a confession, and it would be prejudicial to his right to a fair trial for that to be shown before the trial itself. So we got more signs today that the evidence against Tyler Robinson is extremely strong,

and the defense is very aware of that. So even if we're not able to see all of it, it does look like we're likely to get a lot of this redacted when it does finally air tomorrow. but we're just slowly grinding away. Probably the other highlight of the day for me is actually early on where Judge Graff just, he essentially gives a statement that's saying we are supposed to get this done by the end of business on Friday. So can we please try to hurry it up? This is more or less what he said. Exactly.

Well, and I want to go back to what you just said, Liz, that the timeline piece of it, we know that certain purveyors of this propaganda, this conspiracy stuff like Baron Coleman, have made much about the timeline that he could have never confessed because they would have had his phone already. Well, the timeline got established today. And that was a very key part of what we saw in this case. And I'm going to play something from this Turkey Tom video. Watchers of our show know that I've referenced Turkey Tom. This is a whistleblower friend that approached this YouTuber and said, hey, I actually know these guys. I hung out with them a lot. And this is exactly how they talked. The text messages, he confirms that this is the language they used for

for each other and he also shared with him this Discord confession and it was the first time we'd seen the Discord confession with a timestamp and a time zone on it. So go ahead and play this SOT 70 and it's a short clip but it establishes the timeline. Confession message to their old friend group server. It's interesting to me that he sent it in this server and not to Lance's new server because I'm not sure why that is. It could just be that he was less familiar with the people there, but based on the kind of messages sent there, which we're going to go over later.

later. It could be that he wanted to avoid having anyone say something that resembled support for his actions. In the original... So what did you see there? It said 9.57 PM EDT, which would have been 757 Utah time. And then we find out we hear from the testimony today that he turned himself in approximately at nine local times. So he sends that discord chat almost an hour, probably a full hour before he turned himself in. So gone is one giant conspiracy on the timeline. Yeah, and there's actually an additional element to that too is when he turned himself in, we saw that video today of him being held at the Washington County Police Department,

but he wasn't held in a cell. He was held in basically a back office until, like I said, they established probable cause and formally arrested him, possibly around 4 a.m. We actually don't know when he lost access to his cell phone. He could have had access to, I mean, he could have had access to his phone in that room. We don't know that. Yeah, but Liz, here's the thing.

I don't know that he didn't have it then either. Yeah, but even if they took it away from him right at 9 o'clock when he turns himself in, which we have no reason to believe at this point, he still had time to make the confession. And there has been literally millions of views on social media pontificating about this one piece. And now I want to show you something. Here, show this, these two images, by the way, guys. I'm going to show this to Liz. I think this is a really big deal here.

So we see this image, the first one, put it up when you can, and this is in the holding room, Liz. So notice that the color of the shirt, the hat, this is what he's wearing. Okay. Now go to the image that we saw in the compilation video the day before. Notice the color of shirt and the hat. So we have been told, Liz, that there is, even with this, the social media of it all, We have been told that there is no proof that that's actually Tyler Robinson. It doesn't matter that his own mom recognized him from the images that were published from the surveillance videos.

Where he's wearing different clothing, where he's trying to hide his appearance. But this is the looks like the same shirt and same hat. I can't say that definitively. Maybe he had a number of them or something. Or maybe it's a slightly different shirt in a similar color. But the hat, look at these back to back. Just keep going back and forth. this looks like the exact same person to me, Liz.

Am I missing something here? No, I think not. I think one of the things that I pointed out on X earlier, and of course it was Candice Owens yesterday who was not just asking, do we have definitive proof that the person that we see in this, it is a grainy video. I think there was a clearer video that was played in court,

to my understanding. The clearer video hasn't been released to the public. We just have the grainy version of it. Right. It was Candice Owens who wasn't just saying, how do we know this is him? because we can't see his face clearly. She was denying it was him. She was casting doubt actively on whether this was him. And my point was just, well, his own mother identified him from a grainy still

that was taken from these videos that was released by police on the day that Tyler Robinson committed this crime, allegedly. And so who are we going to believe here? Candace Owens, who doesn't seem to have an idea of how this process works, the judicial process, or how to establish whether there's probable cause or his own mother who not only identified him, but this is one of the, I can't even fathom what that must be like for parents. You know, a parent's worst nightmare turning in their own son for a hideous crime they believe he committed because she recognized him from this video. I can't imagine that either.

Liz, I'm so glad. Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because, you know, I actually, they have a soft spot in my heart because they did the right thing. I don't know their family story at all. I don't know any of it, but that they did a brave thing. I have a lot of respect for that, actually. I want to play this clip. This is from Jeffrey Neiman, who is a family representative inside the courthouse for the Kerk's. And I just want to point this out very clearly. One side is arguing for max transparency. The other side is obstructing anything being shared with the public. And the cynic in me, Liz, is kind of assuming

I hope I'm wrong. But the cynic in me thinks that maybe it's because they want all these conspiracy theories to run wild. They want less that's plainly out there because they understand that the more the public sees, the more that the credibility of the conspiracy

crowd is getting just crippled completely. So here it is. This is Jeff Neiman advocating on behalf of the family SOT 71. All right. counsel if you would like to state your name. Your Honor, Jeffrey Nyman on behalf of the Kirk family.

I've been very hesitant to speak up at these proceedings. We understand it's the state, the defense, and the judge, you're all doing your job. But I feel as if we need to. I want to be clear as to what the Kirk family's position is on all of this. The Kirk family believes strongly that if the evidence is being admitted in this preliminary hearing, it should be made public for the world to see. No redactions. this court has tools at its exposure, tools at its disposal to make sure the defendant receives a fair trial,

you'll use them if you find that you need to. That's it, Your Honor. To not be transparent here, to not be open, to not let the world see what happened, will create doubt and distrust in the judicial system. And that's not what anybody wants. That's not what any of us believe should happen here. and we'd ask the court to consider the position of the family in making its ultimate decision. Thank you. I thought that was a really important moment from today, Liz, because, you know, we get a lot of people chipping at us online that we don't, we have no questions, we don't want any, no, we have lots of questions. We want max transparency. We want the world to see the process play out, the legal process play out.

And so I just want to highlight that. I thought it was powerful that Jeffrey Nyman chose to stand up in that moment. I thought it was critical. Liz, I only have you for three more minutes, and I know you got to go. I want to highlight what you were talking about, because I think you've articulated it very well, better than anybody I've seen online. When it comes to the DNA, you, you, there was, explain the stories that were floating around on social media and how you rebutted them. Yeah, let me comment on the Kirk family lawyer for just a second, too.

I know that the argument from the other side is that it could taint the jury pool if some of the more damning evidence is shown. And in a regular trial, that may be an argument that carries some water. That's true. But the counter argument in this particular case, because it's such a high profile case, is that the conspiracy theories, which are so abundant surrounding the murder of Charlie Kirk and who was involved in that could also taint the jury pool. And so I think it is in the interest of the American people to see this evidence, because God forbid, you get a jury point. that's full of people who, you know, bought into some of those conspiracies because they didn't have the access to see some of this evidence that could change their minds. Because let's be real,

everyone in the country is aware of the facts of this. You're not going to get a jury pool of people that are like, oh, I didn't know who Charlie Kirk was. I didn't know the details of this. I never saw the video. I know nothing about it. That's not going to happen in a high profile case like this. And so I think maximum transparency is the wisest course of action. And it is fair in our judicial process, given the circumstances of this particular case. That being said, The DNA evidence that came out today or the analysis, there's fake news immediately. Any time that a piece of evidence is damning to Tyler Robinson,

the fake news propagated online proliferates instantly. And that happened again. I think this was actually late yesterday that the testimony came from the DNA analyst that said, listen, of this screwdriver and of this towel that were found on the roof, there were several DNA samples that were found instantly. the propagators of fake news online claimed that the majority of the DNA was Lance Twigs and only a fraction was Tyler Robinson. And the point of propagating this lie, of course, was to cast doubt on whether Tyler Robinson was actually the one who committed this crime because that's key to the conspiracies. He cannot be the one who committed the crime in order for the vast global conspiracy that's been painted by Candace Owens to be real.

But of course, that wasn't true. If you listed to the testimony, I posted this on my ex account, the video of it. analyst said there were multiple DNA samples. Yeah, you can see that on the screen that were found on the towel and the screwdriver. About 5% of it was Lance Twigs and 95% was Tyler Robinson's or a match for them on one item. And on the other item, a fraction 11% matched Lance Twigs DNA and 89% matched Tyler Robinson, which makes sense. I mean, they were gay lovers. They're going to have the stuff in their apartment, which you can assume, I suppose, that this is where this this stuff came from is probably going to have some of their shared DNA on it. That's not something

that should surprise anyone. I think it probably does bring up questions, questions that we've had for a long time since we initially found out who did this, whether Lance Twiggs knew about it or was involved. I mean, I assume those are questions that will be answered in the days and weeks and months to come. But the lie that was propagated initially was just that. It was just a lie. and I hope it actually serves to open people's eyes because when you see a lie like that and then you see the actual testimony that contradicts the lying, you realize that the liars were lying, you should ask, well, what else are they lying about? I think that's really well said, Liz.

And by the way, I know you've got to go, but you've been on the record now predicting the next conspiracy theory or the next, you know, wild hair that they chase. And then literally within minutes, all the usual suspects take that thing that you predict it because you're watching it live and you're like they're going to go with that. I know it. They're not very original people. So I wouldn't even put it beyond them to listen to what Liz or someone says and go, that's a great idea.

Yeah, exactly. I should run with it. Or they'll frame it this way. They'll frame it. It's like they're taunting us. They're telling us what they did. Yeah, exactly. This is how they operate.

Well done, Liz. Thank you for taking some time tonight. I know you got a busy schedule. So God bless you. You seriously are doing Heroes work. You're out. You're out in front. Hopefully you're not inspired.

You're not inspired so of this. I don't think that's true. So thank you again for joining us. Liz Wheeler, host of the Liz Wheeler show. Have a great rest of your night. If you could go back in time and buy oil before the world relied on it, would you? Of course you would. Anybody would.

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you know, the video of him turning himself in is a body double. I don't know why they would need to fake that because they did have to get him in custody at some point. I mean, like, for real, you got a lot of things got to line up, including how tall he is, which is another really funny one.

Here to help us do, oh, actually, let the team bring him in him. I'm sorry, team. But we're going to have Taylor Hanson, who's actually on the ground doing reporting for TPSA Frontlines. He's going to come and join us. And he actually went on campus, went on campus to where some of these videos from the surveillance videos are being broadcast. Right. So we've got the compilation video.

There was a lot of, let's just say, noise being made about exactly how tall Tyler Robinson is. and did that compare to how tall the gentleman in the video was. So we've got, I think, a couple of these clips. Maybe we can use this as we bring in, as we bring him in. Okay, how about this? Let's play 67 while we bring Taylor Hansen into the show. It was the third and fourth stair. So he has his foot roughly right here, right here.

It's about as close as you're going to be able to replicate. And obviously, you have the retaining wall behind me. Keep in mind, my camera is not roughly at the end. It's as close as we can get to the exact same angle. It's touching the bulb of the other security camera. They are different cameras, though. So there's going to be a different effect. This is just how cameras worked.

Camera 101. Science, awesome stuff. Hand, roughly on the wall, have the same spacing, at least as close as we can possibly get. This is what it looks like. He had his head slightly down, on all the way down. It was roughly about here. I'm six foot tall, obviously. I'm a lot wider than Robinson would be in this case.

But this is about as close of a little. replication as you can get. All right. Taylor Hansen joins us now from TPSA Frontlines, independent reporter on the ground there. How you doing, Taylor? Good. Quite the project you endeavored upon at UVU campus. First of all, just like, how creepy was it to be there and kind of retrace those steps? Yeah, it was definitely creepy. That's one way to put it. I've been there a few times since Charlie was assassinated. And I was there actually the day of right afterwards and then the following day as well. And the feeling kind of never goes away to put it in perspective.

There's always something in the air. So where are you at right now? Is that the courthouse that you're at? Yeah, I'm right outside the fourth judicial courthouse here in Bravo, Utah. Okay. All right. So going back to that clip, I don't know if you saw we were bringing you in at the same time. But, you know, did you guys do sort of markings?

And actually, I think you in that clip, you went with the fact that, Robinson is 510. I actually think he's six foot. This is debated because I think there's some, I think there's a police processing document or something where it says 510. It's one of those things. How much of their hair do you measure all of that?

But getting deeper into this, I mean, the claim when they were getting whipped up by the conspiracies is that this person is well over six feet. He must be 6-4, 6-5, 6-8, who knows. And I think that's trivially easy to debunk through what Tyler's been doing, or even in the video footage you can see. He passes by another guy in the stairwell,

and that guy is clearly much taller than him. Well, and there was also that woman that was the young woman walking past him, and it looked like they were almost equal height. But explain what you were talking about, first of all. In that clip, you say, it's going to be impossible for me to perfectly match this because of camera angles, because of different lenses. I mean, you tried to match the angle as much as you could,

but it's going to be impossible to match. And then also, because you've done a lot of camera work over the years, Taylor, explain how something on camera can be deceptive to, you know, the person that's viewing it. Like, for example, I always use the example of Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise, I thought, was like a tall man. And then I found out later he's 5'7. And you know what I mean? No one was ever more betrayed than Andrew.

He had this big man crush on him. That's not true. That's not true. But he is a good actor. I have to give it to him. But the point is how, explain how that can be deceptive. Yeah, well, I mean, everything is angles. Everything is lighting.

I mean, granted, I mean, you have to keep in mind that the footage that, you know, Candace and others are polling and referencing in regards to him being taller than, you know, he was prior. In the first time that, you know, the alleged assassin came onto campus, he is actually farther away from the railing. So that can also kind of factor into the angle into where he, how much he slumped. over, but the actual lens used in the security footage, I mean, I don't have access to the UVU security cameras. So, you know, I wish I did, but that's not how it works. And the lens is going to

capture things differently than, you know, an iPhone 17 camera, which is what was used to film this video. You know, the iPhone 17, completely different lens than what the actual security footage is, you know, that's being portrayed here in the preliminary hearings. So it doesn't matter how much comparison you're giving. You can only get so much, I would say, when using a different. camera lens to actually being entirely accurate. I tried my best, had, you know, held it up. It was touching the same height. It was literally touching the actual UVU security camera to basically try and replicate that. And regarding, you know, 510, 6 foot, I believe I had seen online that the new thing is that, you know, the second guy that came through is a different guy and he appears

to be anywhere between 6 foot, 6 foot 4. And I figured I would go because I'm exactly 6 foot. And you can see, I mean, I am taller than that person in the video. And in the later videos I imagine you guys will show, there's a retaining wall with a line that is clearly about halfway through the person's head that is walking through the tunnel. And I go, who is six foot, I go and stand next to it. And it's touching my shoulders, essentially. So there is clearly a height differential taking place in regards to this. Yeah, well, let's show that. 68. This is obviously the tunnel where it came down the retaining stairs.

What's interesting about this, once again, camera differentials, but we're about matching roughly as close as we can height-wise. Look in the Robinson video, he's about right here, roughly about somebody that would land at 5'10. It's about right in the middle of his face. I'm six foot. This is barely above my shoulders. So there's a clear difference taking place right here. So this is the staircase right after rotating wall. I was just showing you in the tunnel.

Comes up this right side of the rail. walking with one fairly straight leg going up. Roughly right about here is where you see that girl come down the staircase right next to him. And he keeps his head slightly down, obviously, because my phone is right underneath the camera as close as we can replicate. He swings close to this railing right here,

and then he swings out wide again. So, you know, I think this is interesting, is interesting and because now I have a question about I don't know that it's relevant but so here here's the image that Candace Owens published originally she cut off the top of his head which I think was first indicators notice how you don't see the top number you get up to about 70 inches which would put him at 510 but here is the actual so it goes all the way up and to Blake's point maybe he's six foot maybe it's five eleven and a half or something i mean who knows it's it like to your point it's like how much of that is hair i don't know but it's an approximation so based on those two

images that now go back to that retaining wall what what are the takeaways draw our eyes and ears to what needs to be seen by the audience there taylor i mean well you see that they're i mean they would say that it's almost roughly the same but it is just slightly different to kind of drive that fact that, okay, even if he is 510, then it doesn't matter in this scenario because one camera angles play into it, but me as a six foot tall man, I am completely different than what that video essentially portrayed. And that also leads into angling. That leads into me using my iPhone camera.

So the idea that this is kind of the new narrative, it's debunked in itself. I don't even need to go down there to really even raise this argument, but the internet has kind of been taken over in a sense with these conspiracy theories. And I can understand questioning certain things. It's human nature. But when you can't actually question things of substance, when the goalposts continuously move, I figured I would go down to the campus and, you know,

actually draw attention to this. So let's see where the goalposts move the next time, essentially. That's my goal is to see, okay, what are we actually going to talk about that has substance? Why don't we watch the preliminary hearing, see the evidence come out. I'm out here every single day reporting on what's going on, both inside and outside the courtroom.

all of these people online, they are not here. And they're not here for a reason. And the only clips that they're actually using are clips completely taken out of context. That's what I've noticed. Yep, I totally agree. So because you're there, Taylor, and thank you for doing that. That was really interesting. And it does show that you guys are, you're probably a little bit taller than him.

And it shows that you basically is what we would have expected. That based on where your shoulder lines up to his, et cetera. Plus, he's also hunched over with the gun potentially, you know, down one or two legs. We're not sure how exactly how that was. I'm significantly wider as well. That's another big factor. Yeah, totally. If you're struggling with cravings, bloating, and stubborn weight gain, your gut health is probably playing a bigger role than you think.

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or you can call 888-317-9258 for up to 50% off. That's 888-3-1-7-9-258 for up to 50% off your order and free shipping. All right, so here's another thing. Because you're actually there on the ground covering this, I saw this, you know, there's this, I forget, Elizabeth Lane or something. There's this whole crew of these people that are devoted, They have a cult-like devotion to these conspiracy theories, and they were spotted out there. You can show this.

This is from Tammy McDonald-17 on social media. It says Candice's favorite Russian spies at the Tyler Robinson preliminary hearing today. Her words not mine. Of course, she didn't wait in line. One of her cronies held a spot since 2.30 this morning. Okay. That's interesting. And then we have some videos of you can.

I guess throw the B-roll. They're literally posting, yeah, images of them like camping out, very happy, jolly, you know, happy go lucky, which is weird, actually. This is a murder trial. And they're very excited to be waiting in line. What are you seeing when it comes to this? Is this, like, did you see these people? What's the scene like outside of the courthouse?

I'd say it's about 95% press given the national attention to this trial is drawn. But you do have people that aren't. campaign out. And I did actually see these people today. I did not interact with them, but I interacted with another group of people yesterday that I had gotten a tip from, and it was a left-wing journalist that actually took me off to it. They were wearing freedom shirts, believe it or not. And I guess they are pro-tyler Robinson, essentially. And I attempted to interview them. They almost immediately clocked me as contracting with front lines. They had seen my work in the past, and they were not willing to speak on the issue. And of course,

I told them, you know, I'll be polite. I just want to know your opinion. Why are you hear why are you sitting in attendance what interest does it have to you and they weren't willing to talk to me so every single day at least so far you do have people that are basically coming in here getting access to the preliminary hearings that are pro tyler robins yeah and they are actually getting access right taylor yes yeah they're camping out these people are staying overnight in a lot of cases so they're the very first to actually get access and there's only a limited amount of spots so they're essentially taking up the places of people. I mean, there's children out here.

There were people that attended UVU that witnessed it firsthand that actually wanted to get in today that weren't able to get in. Well, it doesn't surprise me because, you know, it's a cult, you know. You know, those are the people that are going to have this cultish devotion to this, I think, misplaced, moralizing about this, right? We're wearing the freedom shirts. Yeah, they're part of a whole contingent online that wants. to rip down Charlie's organization, attack his widow and his family, but they see themselves as the defenders of Charlie's legacy, which, you know, I think that's Erica's job personally, but that's fine. Anything else you want to bring up, Taylor, that you want our audience to be

aware of that's happening around the courthouse or what you're witnessing? Yeah, I mean, just, I would say, get your information from the actual preliminary hearing. It's live streamed for a reason. watch it all if you have time. Don't just go on social media, you know, because all these clips are being taken out of context. You know, obviously Lance Twiggs was a very big focal point today. Yesterday, it was DNA evidence. So every single day we're seeing new developments. And it's always being taken out of context. So if you actually want to understand what's taking place during this preliminary hearing, you need to just watch the thing. However slow it goes. Yeah. And it's very slow. It's very slow. Taylor, thank you so much for your reporting. I appreciate you making.

making some time for us tonight. Great job, man. Of course. Thanks for having me. I do want to show this clip, and we have it loaded as 72. It's the rifle disassembled and put in both pant legs. This is a really interesting visual because it shows how easy and how quick it is to disassemble a rifle and also how you could store it in your pant leg. SOT 72. Assuming that since this was the longest piece, then it was causing so much,

hiccup and his giddy up, that this is probably maybe what was sitting on his right leg. So, because when you do see him walking, he's kind of, this arm is not moving. Right now, as it sits, the muzzle of the rifle is just below my knee. We saw him moving with no hip movement, but he was still able to move his knee. I can still bend my knee. The stock is significantly thicker than the barrel and the receiver action, especially back there. But this is going to be a little trickier. I wonder if it can go in this side and under the arm.

Let me pull it back up looking. Okay. What that looks like from the front, is there any indication that you got that? my movement. I'm moving. How do I how I move? I think that may be part of the limb was that he was trying to move without printing

the rifle. See how it was because he went to pull the shots like he's got his arms out. He's walking up the stairs. It's not out of the realm of possibility that you can walk. All right. I just wanted to show that as another example. There's a series of these guys. They tend to be

gun aficionados. and really into that space, and they're breaking down how that limp could happen, how you could assemble a rifle on a rooftop. And I just think it's really, really interesting and I think really helpful to understand what probably happened. Hi, folks, Andrew Colvett here. I'd like to tell you about my friends over at Y Reefi. You've probably been hearing me talk about Y Refi for some time now.

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Y, then refi.com. And remember, Y Refi doesn't care what your credit score is. Just go to whyrefi.com and tell them your friend Andrews sent you. We have Viva Frye on the show. I always want to say Viva Frey because of the spelling. But he is a former litigator. He's a YouTuber Rumbler. He's a content creator. He's a Canadian, but now he's an American. That's rough. No, no, no, no. No, no. He's fully reformed. He's changed.

Viva, welcome back, my friend. Good to see you. We believe in personal growth. Not fully reformed yet, but God willing. Okay, you're in process. You're in process. Okay, so, Viva, you are always a guy that, and I actually love this, because I believe, hey, Tyler Robinson is innocent until proven guilty. I believe that is sacrosanct in our system. I believe the evidence is very compelling, but I believe he's innocent until proven guilty. And you are a guy with nuance takes. You're a guide that kind of sees both sides. You're willing to hear out the more conspiratorial end.

And you're also willing to hear out the people that are like, hey, it's pretty obvious. From that vantage point, what are you seeing? How is this going so far? Well, from that vantage point, I will now be on the, I'm in on it because I'm with TPSA and Andrew Colfe. This is how lunatic the internet has become. How do I see it going right now? I happen to think there's substantial prima facie evidence to indicate Tyler Robinson was on the roof, pulled the trigger, was identified by his mother, et cetera, et cetera. We're living in a world now, by there I'm not in a steam sauna. This is just a backdrop.

We're living in a world now, however. Thanks for clear your head up. No, no, no, people like Aviva don't do vlogs from the steam sauna anymore. But we're living in a world where people have sort of gotten back into the realm of the Alex Jones Info Wars. Sandy Hook level psychotic conspiracy everywhere. Where now people are saying, all right, I believe everything we're being told is a lie, so I'm going to not believe anything except for that which I've convinced myself of already. I don't know if Tyler Robinson pulled the trigger.

I don't know if he was on the roof and he was the one who fired the gun. I know what the preliminary evidence looks like right now. And I know it's being adjuiced at the preliminary hearing. But the insane conspiracy theories that are being floated, that are implicating everyone and anyone involved that are unsubstantiated and unfalsifiable in their vagueness. I mean, I'm seeing Sandy Hook 2.0 recurring right now. I appreciate there are some issues with the prosecution. There's some issues with the investigation.

And there's some issues with the evidence. I can find it. I can appreciate that. But to go from there to say that it's exploding microphones, Israel did it. And not that Israel might have had a hand in this. But until you can provide the slightest shred of evidence other than I can divine an intention or a motive, you have to admit that from the evidence that you have right now, if you have a more plausible theory than the one being presented,

which is Tyler Robinson was on the roof, took the shot, had the rifle, had the moment, had the opportunity. If you have a more plausible theory to present, you can go ahead and present it, but you don't get to manufacture facts out of whole cloth. You don't get to misrepresent what is being adduced at this preliminary hearing in terms of the DNA evidence. Whether you believe in DNA evidence or not, don't misrepresent which percentage it's favoring. Whether or not you believe that Tyler Robinson was not able to have the rifle in his legs, if you misrepresent that he was shifting his limb from the right leg to the left leg without contemplating the idea that it might have been a reverse image mirror of the video, you don't get to make up facts,

you don't get to misrepresent law, you don't get to say he's innocent because they haven't proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty at a preliminary hearing, which itself is probable cause. I mean, we're in a realm now where it's, I guess, in a way, it's the ultimate flattery to Charlie Kirk, which is the loss is so great, the loss is so monumental that people have to come up with concoctions to try to make sense of what is a senseless crime. But preliminary hearing is going the way it's going. The evidence indicates on probable cause that Tyler Robinson should go to trial. If people think that the video evidence is not clear cut,

not sufficiently clear that his own mother identified him, you can raise reasonable doubt at the trial. Right now, it's preliminary hearing probable cause, a lower threshold. And people don't get to make up facts and misrepresent things to promote their insane conspiracy theories that are not tethered to reality. Well, you know, it's funny because I've heard, I thought that was really well said, Viva,

because, you know, one of my frustrations in all of this is that because there has been so many allegations heaped on the org, heaped on Erica, heaped on myself, or whoever, Ben Shapiro now is in the, you know, the, the attention. So here's what's interesting, though. I have questions. I do have questions. I want to know was Lance Twigs actually a co-conspirator? You know, when I hear there's only six police officers at campus, that's frustrating to hear. Like in a, in a, in a real. really deep, profound way. I want to know was he radicalized by somebody. I want to know about armed queer's SLC. I want to know was there money involved. I want to know who knew what, when. I have lots of questions. But what we're dealing with here and now is whether or not Tyler Robinson was the guy who pulled the trigger. Okay. And can you get proved probable cause to take this to a full trial? Okay. I want to show these two images back to back to back because this was actually something that happened today. We got to see the video of,

Tyler Robinson in the holding room after he turned himself in. Okay. That's him. That's him from. That's a still from that video. Okay. Now go to the still from the parking garage the day before. Similar shirt, similar hat. And I was, I think from testimony that he was wearing converse shoes when he turned himself in. And I believe that's what was described in this image as well. So go back to that other one. And by the way, you see a profile shot of him in another time. I just like this one because the shirt is clear. and go back now to the parking rush. Go back and forth. Viva.

I'm told there's no evidence that that's him. I'm looking at that going, that looks like him. And I guess the newest theory is that this person is a body double. Body double. Body double. We can never see his face. Even though it was with a family friend and it was with his parents.

No, appreciate that. Like, okay, fine. You say it's a body double. Then try to raise that as reasonable. doubt. Right now we're at probable cause as to whether or not he committed the crime for which he should stand trial. And I appreciate people saying the video or the images of him in a black shirt and the different clothing doesn't look like him. Okay, fine. You can raise those arguments. Right now, you're at probable cause for the aggregate of the evidence. His DNA is on the gun,

not the gun, sorry, his DNA is on the screwdriver and the towel. And he was on campus. He was not a student on campus, his own mother called him in. This is the probable cause stage of it. If you want to argue it's a body double, it's not him, they don't match up, he's got a limp switching from one leg to the other. You'll do that at trial, and it's not to say he's got to prove his innocence. It's that probable cause versus proof beyond a reasonable doubt are two different thresholds at two different stages of the proceedings, and people need to understand that. The bottom line, he was arrested, detained in the clothing that he appears to be wearing the day before on campus, that's probable cause on its face, set aside the DNA, set aside the text messages,

which people can tear apart on trial. But this is the insanity. I'm calling it psychotic delusional insanity, that Ben Shapiro, the news of the day, he admitted on his show, he got a call his security got a call from Charlie Kirk's security right after the shooting, saying, you know, an update of sorts on the shooting. And people like, that's, crazy. They deduce from that that he was somehow in on it, that Mossad because his security or former Mossad, that that's how they would

coordinate between the two of them to confirm that the takeout by Mossad has been established. I mean, it's so insane that you would go with that outlandish theory as opposed to these are prominent conservatives, and at the time after the shooting, my understanding is

people were fearful that this might have been a coordinated attack targeting other prominent conservatives. Candace included, by the way, by her own statements and that they jump to the his agent his security are former massad agents and so they are calling to give him an update on the confirmation of the massad assassination hit on charlie kirk i mean you're dealing with people positing theories that really can never be falsified and that don't even make sense on the simplest most reasonable interpretation of things so my interpretation is that more likely than not ben shapiro got a call said

Charlie Kirk's been assassinated. I think people knew he was dead well in advance. Watch your back. Tucker Carlson, watch your back. We don't know if this is isolated. The shooter's still on the loose. But this is the delusion of conspiracy theory that people are entertaining right now.

When it comes to the actual evidence, yes, they now have evidence. He was detained in the clothes that he was appeared in on the campus the day before. Maybe he's got a good defense. Maybe someone else was wearing the exact same stuff. You'll get to the beyond a reasonable doubt at the trial on the merits. Right now, it's probable cause and whether or not more likely than not a crime has been committed for which this individual, whoever he may be, should stand trial.

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you could probably actually get a conviction on the standalone element of any really of the four things. If you want to say the four legs of the stool here, which is the video footage of his car and him on the campus where he is at the time of the shooting, from the DNA evidence that we have on the towel and on the screwdriver and possibly on the gun eventually. It will turn out, which again we can trace back to him from the text messages and from his interactions with his parents and turning himself in. I think any one of those legs of that stool would be enough to clear probable cause and probably get a conviction. And instead we have all four of those things.

And I think it's fascinating at that point to highlight the constant objection, objection, objection from the defense. We saw this first with the compilation video, which was a huge bombshell. I mean, that video alone, that compilation tracing his steps on campus, the four times he visited, according to the state, was a really big revelation. Social media was, I mean, on fire about it yesterday. This is the second time that they seem to have been fighting tooth and nail to block at least certain parts of this Twigs video recording interview, right? So I can only imagine that it's going to be the next big explosive piece of that.

It seems like the judge is going to be redacting a number of pages from the 22-page kind of transcript of it, which means we're going to lose big chunks of it, which the family representative for the Kirk family said, we want it all published. If you're going to admit it as evidence, we want it all published. And then the judge says, hey, just to call my shot here, most of the stuff we're redacting is just the text messages, which have already been sort of publicized in the charging document.

Yeah. No, true. Yeah, but the judge said he's going to consider it. It's just a question of not really not publishing it to the public. So it's not that it's not going to be factored into the judge's decision. He's going to determine relevance. Sure. So he'll consider.

But again, at this stage, come trial time, everything's going to be different. It's going to sort of start from scratch. But just to get to the issue that you can convict them on any one of the four things, you don't, no, the text messages, the provenance, the authenticity needs to be proven. His DNA, that's a double-edged sword just to not get into the conspiratorial ground. If there's 89 and 95% DNA of Tyler Robinson, there's 5 and 11% of somebody else, is a 5 and 11% of it being someone else reasonable doubt. You couple that with all of the other circumstantial evidence,

and it'll be a separate issue to prove at trial. So I don't think you get there on the preliminary hearing, even based on what's been adjuiced. But what do you do get here, and this is where people accuse me of buying into the Fed narrative, and they call me, you know, gobbler of the Fed Slop, I sincerely and genuinely believe other people were involved, and right now we're getting confirmation of it,

Tyler, sorry, Twigs was more involved than we ever thought if his DNA is on not just the towel. A towel is easier to understand DNA on the screwdriver. Lance Twigs knew that Tyler Robinson was engraving whatever fascist thing he was engraving on bullets. So you're dealing with people who were aware of a plot in advance. Couple that with the actual evidence. Hold on. Viva, hold on that note, you can't deduce that yet that Twigs knew about. about the plot. I have stated multiple times from this chair that if we do find out that he was engaged as a co-conspirator or had advanced notice that this was going to happen and they tried

to cover the tracks with these text messages, I want the guy held accountable to the max extent of the law. Don't get me wrong. But you can't deduce that from the fact, I mean, they were gay lovers living in the same house. They could have shared towels. They could have shared even screwdrivers. Might have just been Lance's screwdriver. Could have been his Lance's screwdriver. I'm just saying I don't think you could deduce that he was complicit or a co-conspirator just from from the most.

Well, complicit. When he's texting his lover, remember when I was engraving the bullet casings. I mean, that's not something that you witness your lover doing. You don't ask second, you know, questions about it. I mean, that's something an Antifa person would do, I would say. You know, he could have just been, I mean, listen, I agree. like I've never engraved a bullet with you know screw communist or something like that

but I they if you I don't know if you've seen the Turkey Tom video if not I I actually put it on X today I really encourage you to see it because it's a whistleblower friend that reached out to this YouTuber and it's I think it's got like almost close to

two million views on this thing he published it all the way back in like what October or November it was about it was October and it is an inside look into this world that these kids were living in. I actually was talking to a reporter that's on the ground reporting there. He gave me a call today and he watched it last night and he was like, whoa. It is and I think the word he used was like now you can see really clearly how you could the moral disassociation and just disassociating from reality that this world they were living in.

Lance Twiggs was super manic. He was prone to these huge emotional shifts and ways. and, you know, Robinson was comforting him according to this friend, right? And I have every reason to believe that that video is credible. I've been told it's credible. So it's like you could see why this world was completely bizarre and weird. And it doesn't necessarily lead me to believe that Twigs knew anything was about to happen. Well, no, if the Turkey Town video was the one describing a prior incident where two lovers, you know, got themselves basically to get psychotically. enveloped in a murder conspiracy.

I'm not sure if it's that video you're talking about. It's a friend that is describing the world that they were living in. It's, you know, Lance Twiggs would nest. He would get really depressed and he wouldn't get off the floor out of the living room and he would just sort of slowly gather like a hoarder, all these objects around him. Lots of drug use.

Was it black market, HRT? Lots of drinking, lots of vaping. T.HC. We might be describing sort of the same thing. when I say that that Lance Twigs had I see what you did there I see what you did there for you know

because it is you're describing a world of abject insanity which I have no doubt but the bottom line when people are posting online in advance something big is going to happen at you know University of Utah wouldn't it be great if Charlie gets shot that leads me to believe

that you know above and beyond Lance Twigs being somehow if not involved at least aware of, other people were as well. And when I say, like, I don't buy the, you know, I don't buy anything. I question everything. And I don't take for granted that Tyler acted alone was the only, I don't believe he was. And whether or not, if it's not, no, go for it. Viva, you just made me think of something. I want to play this clip again, which is interesting. I didn't clock it until you just said what you said. I posted this on X and then we just played it. I believe it's cut, This is from that Turkey Tom video talking about which Discord server he confessed in.

Because apparently he was active in two. This isn't, I don't know if there's anything here, but Playcut 70. Confession message to their old friend group server. It's interesting to me that he sent it in this server and not to Lance's new server because I'm not sure why that is. It could just be that he was less familiar with the people there, but based on the kind of messages sent there, which we're going to go over later, it could be that he wanted to avoid having anyone say something that resembled support for his actions. In the original... So that's where he's confessing, right?

And that's the time code, 957 Eastern, which would have been 7.57. He turned himself in around 9 o'clock, so about an hour later. It's interesting because there's two different Discord servers he was involved in. Two that we know of. Right, right, right. Not to get too conspiratorial, but when we're told that Thomas Crooks was not involved in any social media activity, and then, you know, you get reports coming out that he had multiple social media footprints.

Do I believe that Tyler Robinson was only involved in two discord chats with a service? No, I don't. And I'd love to know each and every individual who was on them, if they've been investigated, how people knew allegedly, apparently in advance something was going to happen, how his, you know, he's confessing to his boyfriend, about remember when I was engraving those bullets, and then he goes to the Discord servers to confess to what he did,

where on the Discord servers, even according to the official narrative, they're already talking about having noticed what happened to Charlie Kirk. I don't believe that there were only two Discord servers. I don't believe that there was nobody of relevance on any of those Discord servers. I don't believe that George Zinn, that old pervert who was subsequently arrested for

and pleaded guilty to child sex abuse material on his cell phone after he admitted or purported to admit. that he was there as a distraction to the shooter to allow him to get away, was there by accident. So all that said, do I believe that it was an exploding microphone that Mossad planted because they used Pages to kill some terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank?

No, because there's no evidence to suggest that at this point in time. Do I refuse to ever believe it possibly in the future? No, but there needs to be evidence to support certain things right now. That's exactly right. What you said is key. I mean, my mind is completely open to all of, listen, I want to know the truth. I totally, I have lots of questions.

When it comes to, first of all, you said exactly right, Viva, is there evidence? Do you have actual proof? Or is it just vibes and like gut feeling? Okay. That's not how you convict people. That's not how you do this in our process. Thank God, by the way. And secondly, if that stuff comes out in the future, it's not like I'm going to fight it.

I think there's this perception among some online that like, we're like, I don't ask questions. No, no, no, no, no. I want to know the truth on all this stuff. But what I'm looking at, the evidence that has been presented at court in this preliminary hearing to, as you said, reach the burden of probable cause is extraordinarily compelling. You know, and I just, I think there's some people that won't believe their lying eyes, you know. Well, there are people who still insist nobody was killed at Sandy Hook. There are people who insist that the destruction, you know, tearing down and raising of the building at Sandy Hook, was an indication that no one was killed there. Do I think it was suspicious?

Yes, because I think the Sandy Hook School was destroyed to cover up some of the corruption of the school that they didn't actually invest the monies that they were given in, you know, for the purposes of gun safety. Do I think it's weird that they raised, leveled, and dug up the dirt of the crime scene here? I can appreciate the official narrative, which is that, you know, University of Utah

wanted to clean up a traumatic crime scene so they could get back to university activity as normal. If I believe, and I might very well, that there might have been people at the university that were involved in not securing the roof, telling TPSA that the roof was secure, that they don't need their own drones, and might they want to destroy and cover up and bury their own crime scene,

I could believe that too. But, again, theories, beliefs, and that for which you have the slightest shred of evidence are three different things. and I'm able to understand and distinguish between what I believe, what I can prove, and what I can reasonably argue. And for the time being, if there's a better theory than Tyler Robinson having taken the shot, I appreciate all the holes everybody wants to poke.

They'll do that at trial. That's what good lawyers do. He didn't have enough time to assemble the gun. He couldn't have been running around with it in his legs. It's not him in the black shirt versus the maroon shoot. They'll raise that at trial. But until it's a better theory and until there's the slightest shred of evidence to support exploding mic theories, a second gunman theory, a trap door theory,

it tells us the slightest shred of evidence to support that, you can float unsubstantiated and thus unfalsifiable conspiracy theories. It makes you look like an idiot and untrustworthy, but the bottom line, right now, in the ordinary course of criminal prosecution, preliminary hearing, probable cause, here's Tyler Robinson, here are some images, sufficiently clear that his own mother identified him,

the rifle identified by his father, fragments determined to be a bullet, not an exploding microphone. And if it is an exploding microphone, my goodness, the defense will be that much easier come trial time. There you go. And by the way, medical examiner says it was a gunshot wound to the neck. There's no mention of an exploding mic or anything like that. Viva, we got to go. I'm so sorry. We're going to do a little bit of a handoff here with Jack over to his show. That was excellent, my friend. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. God's speed, everyone. God bless you, man. All right. If you're like me and summer's upon us, you're thinking about all the fun you want to have with your family. You're thinking about leisure time. Maybe you got a family vacation. You're probably not thinking of like checklists in your personal life, like getting life insurance. But you got to do it. And here's what's great. Policy genius makes it super easy, very fast. It can be a summer win. It doesn't have to be a summer chore. Okay. So listen, planning for the future has to be a major priority for your.

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compelling. One other thought that I think Viva brought up is that it's this sort of compliment to Charlie that people, because Charlie was so important, he was so incredible and so, uh, just influential, that I think it's hard for a lot of people to think, hey, maybe it's this dude, it's not, a two year old that just climbs up on a roof. It's not satisfying to think that some weird loser who lived with his furry boyfriend and they did a bunch of drugs and lived. And live. And in their furry nest that that guy could almost just change the course of history. He could kill a world historical figure like Charlie because he was a wretched person who embraced violence. And that's what drives a lot of theories. It's just like we get the stuff

with Kennedy because you don't want to believe a president can be taken out that way. Totally. Totally. We have Jack Posobic now. Human events daily. He's been on the ground in the courthouse. Jack, good to see you, man. Give us a little color. from the scene today? Yeah, look, you know, I'll be blunt. I'm kind of hot about what happened in the court today. We did not get what we were told was going to happen. We did not get the Lance Twiggs video,

which was said from the very start, that that's where, in fact, the defense was the one that first stipulated it, that it was going to be coming. We had kind of been expecting, I think, to get at least, if not the full video, but at least the audio of the recording with Lance Twiggs, which is the trans boyfriend, and the defense moved to block this, moved to redact this, and the judge, instead of, he made one ruling and then was about to allow the audio to be played, and then very quickly

agreed to even more redactions. And this of course happened right about so it's around the four o'clock hour local and they you know basically said oh we don't have time for this now so we're going to break early and it's something where I'm looking at it going look I want justice here but at the same time as that I think transparency is part of that justice and having full transparency means having full access to the evidence and this individual who was closer to Tyler Robinson than anyone in terms of, you know, leading up to the shooting, it seems to me that his evidence would be extremely relevant. His testimony would be extremely relevant, not just this interview,

but he conduct another interview in April this year. And the fact that we have been blocked from seeing that is I'm just, I'm just livid. I'm livid and I would say I'm just speechless that here we are three days now that we've spent in this courtroom, and we're still not getting key evidence like that. Jack, you know, it's interesting. They're taking so much time. I mean, they're fighting tooth and nail. First, it was in the compilation video,

which was extraordinarily damning. Then they're fighting tooth and nail on this Lance Twigs recorded an interview, which I agree. How is that not the most relevant thing to establishing the fact that this guy confessed, the fact that he had a motive and the fact that he had this, frankly, a gay lover that also contributed to the motive. And he was the closest person to him. This seems like the most relevant piece of information. Well, at this point, they basically said it themselves when the defense is objecting.

They basically say this evidence is going to be so strong that presenting it now will prejudice his right to a fair trial because they will blast it out to everyone. and basically they're saying everyone will see the evidence published in all the news outlets about how Tyler Robinson confessed and is guilty and so you just have to save that for the trial or it will be unfair. That's basically what the defense is arguing. Yeah, and just to say, Jack, I read somewhere that it's going to be $10 million

that this could cost upwards of $10 million by the end for the state of Utah to defend this, Tyler Robinson, because it's going to drag out so long like this. Well, and that, you know, it's clearly, look, they've got a very high-profile defense lawyer, Richard Novak in from Southern California. He is extremely well known for his defense of clients, and he's extremely well known for this type of litigation where he's able to come into the courtroom and bring, you know, bring up these constitutional defenses. and you're going up against these Utah, Provo, Utah County attorneys, and they don't have anyone from out of town coming in who's, you know,

bringing in the big guns, so to speak. And so when you're looking at the case, you know, I guess I would speak to a lot of like the misinformation that I see out there as well because we're people saying, well, you know, I don't want to hear the government narrative. I don't trust the government because, you know, Fauci and COVID, et cetera, Sure, fine. There's lots of reasons to not want to trust the government. Believe me. But I'm not asking to hear the government's argument. I don't want to hear that at all. In fact, I want to see what the evidence is, and then I want to hear the direct testimony of the person who knew Tyler Robinson best. That's Lance Twigs. That's why they're fighting so hard to block this. And it seems that though Twigs were told he was given this limited immunity, use immunity. in the case for his testimony, that he has been cooperative to a point, at least, in terms of turning over his cell phones. So that's how we got the text messages, the discord messages, et cetera.

And so the idea that we can't see that evidence and that the public can't see that evidence, it seems to me as flying in the face of the ideals of not just victim rights for Erica and Charlie's parents, who this has been an incredibly trying week for them. There's no question having to sit there, just feet away from Tyler Robinson, and to go through all of this again. And this is just the start. This isn't even the actual trial yet.

But then to be told that you can't even have that evidence to be played in open court, it really, really creates a situation that's incredibly frustrating, having sat there now for three days. And don't get me wrong, I think we've seen a lot of evidence, but knowing that there is more evidence out there that is still being held back creates a massive frustration. Jack Posoba, Human Events Daily.

He's been in there, being a support to the family and reporting the facts, reporting what he's seen. Thank you so much, Jack. I appreciate it. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.