The Charlie Kirk Show - VP Vance at UGA + Kamala Harris and the Seven Dwarfs?

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

Vice President Vance hit UGA on Tuesday night after threats targeted Erika Kirk, and had a lot to say about Gaza, Epstein,  the pope, and more. The show has the clips, then talks to Mark Halperin about the Democrats' ever-evolving 2028 field, where Kamala Harris is somehow still a frontrunner. Alex Marlow talks about the massive success of the president's immigration rollback, and Jan Jekielek discusses the China threat. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!    Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You've got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a turning point USA college chapter. Go start a turning point you would say high school chapter.

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Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of, precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with noble gold investments at noble gold investments.com. That is noble gold investments.com. All right, welcome to the Charlie Kirk show. It's Wednesday, April 15th. Wait, it's tax day. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Man, that's a good thing I paid my taxes over a year ago. You're that early? You're that early? It's a Simpsons joke. Oh, geez. Some people brag about getting their early, they're paying their taxes early. I'm like, How do you get like your your tax documents in order?

You know, like two weeks, it feels like before the tax deadline comes. All right. Anyways, welcome. We're back here at the YREFI Studios in Phoenix. This I am. Blake's been here. Had a late night getting here. And it's been a bit of a whirlwind for me personally.

But I'm very glad to be back in Phoenix after our event yesterday at the University of Georgia in Athens, Georgia. And it was quite the event, I will say. It was one that will stand out for me as far as what I remember. I mean, we've had so many events over the years. And it was a whirlwind. I will tell you, obviously, the big part of the news was that Erica was, she canceled her appearance at that because of security threats that were made against her. It was something we were, you know, monitoring for days before the event. We actually had a high school event that was planned to be before the college event in the area that we had to cancel a few days before,

because of the increased online chatter that we were monitoring. Our security team, I should say, was monitoring. And so we thought, you know, we got the Secret Service. Everything should be fine at the main event. But what ended up happening, and I have to be somewhat careful here because our security team does, you know, obviously wants to be a little bit circumspect in the way that we talk about this because we don't want to give the bad guys any more ideas.

But it was a situation where they were trying to docks her travel and monitor her travel, suggesting different ways that people could attack her. And it was like something we were actively trying to navigate and change itineraries, move locations. Nobody wants to live that way. It was a terrible experience in many ways. And I feel terrible for Erica.

And ultimately, you know, when you're in that moment and the security team looks at you and says, we can't guarantee your safety, at some point you just have to say, we'll do this a different way. And that's what we ultimately did yesterday. I was honored to be able to pinch hit for Erica. I was honored that the vice president was open to continue the event with me in her stead.

So it was an honor to do that. And I think we had a really important conversation. And the clips are all over. So I'm really proud of that. I think it was really important topics that we got to. I got to ask a Catholic vice president about the Catholic Pope and all of that good stuff. We had questions about Epstein. We had questions about H-1B and immigrant.

So in total, it was a really tremendous conversation that I will look back on fondly. I was honored to do it. But obviously, the main story is that Erica had to make that terrible decision to not go. And when your children are one parent away from being orphans and the security gives you that tough assessment, obviously you want to take that very seriously. And so we did. And that's that. I will say there was other news that was the internet is a is a fun place Blake and I saw you mixing it up on on the on the on the on the

a little a little I mean there's a lot of disgusting people on the internet who well to be put in their place yeah Blake Blake is uh I've watched you slowly just reach the end of yourself and uh so I can appreciate that I think you're very good at it you're very you're very measured you stay you stay very controlled anyway so the other the other story that was happening last night. I think it's worth the dressing just briefly. I mean, we had over 2,000, mostly students attend that event, but it was a very large venue. So 2000 at any college event is massive. A couple things happened in advance of this. And this is one of the pieces of evidence that we made when we were determining Erica's participation in the event is that there was just so much counter-protest energy. Everybody, there was, that was apparently all the talk of the school. And you combine that with the death threats and the doxing of the travel and the itineraries, all of these things.

But so a couple things happened. So we ended up having to open doors and closed doors earlier than was previously scheduled. Okay. So that was something. A lot of people were seeing the news what happened with Savannah and Minneapolis. So that was also a conversation that we were having. And then there were a bunch of left wing groups that tried, and they do this at a number of events. We have this pretty much down to a science where if we have in this event, in which case,

We had about 10,000 tickets reserved for the event. And the venue holds about 4,000 when you consider the stage. So if you do like a hockey event at this event, it's about 6,000. But then you put a stage in. It only fits about 4,000. So we had over 2,000 people there, massive, massive energy, great, great enthusiasm from the attendees. But the, and this happens, the left wing groups swarm the ticketing and they try and book up all the tickets and then they don't show. And that's one of their forms of protests.

Normally we're pretty good at sniffing it out, but they use some new means and activities. And so we're working with our ticketing systems to adjust for that moving forward. But yeah, it was a eventful night. But let's get into some of the clips here because I think it's really, again, the important piece is what was discussed in tens of thousands, maybe millions. I'm sure, actually, millions have seen the clips. Let's just dive into it. Let's dive into it. I think one of the best things you can do at these events is you can just tout wins that aren't talked about. enough. I think one of my favorites is he just he mentions guys the number of new H-1Bs

which we hear about from students all the time it is down 90% clip three. The asylum process was I mean there were guys there were literally millions of people coming into the United States every single year on false asylum claims we have those claims down something like north of 95% I'm very proud of what we done in the Trump administration massive reductions in fraudulent visas massive reductions in fraudulent number of asylum claims. Massive reduction in H1BVs is granted. We're making a lot of progress. I think another good clip we have is we've had a few, a little bit of back and forth in this all week, but people keep asking him questions about the Pope.

And it's very funny because they're trying to put heat on him for saying, I won't be bossed around by the Pope, which every time we had Catholic politicians in the past, the attack was they'd get bossed around by the Pope. Very strange reversal here. But let's play clip 12. So the Pope said something. He said that God is never on the side of those who wield the sword. God is never on the side of those who wield the sword. I'm pretty sure that he said that exact statement. How can you say that God is never on the side of those who wield the sword? Was God on the side of the Americans who liberated France from the Nazis? Was God on the side of the Americans who liberated Holocaust camps and liberated those innocent people from those who had survived? the Holocaust, I, I, I, I, I, I certainly think the answer is yes. You hear that, that heckler. It was, it was like one heckler. And like, I noticed that. And he was talking about, you know, why are you committing genocide? He had a great answer for it. I thought he dealt with, and it was about, you know, Palestine or whatever. And he was like, he's like,

we brought peace to Palestine. Yeah. You know, and it was a, it was a great moment. The cloud, the crowd, the crowd rallied behind it. It was, I mean, the energy was, you know, the energy was, was tremendous and the reactions, I mean, from his answers, I thought he gave a couple really good mic drop answers. Vice President Vance defensive Erica, I thought was just a kind of a beautiful moment. But also, actually, with everything that's going on with Savannah Hernandez, he mentions that he talked with FBI director Cash Patel about that, Sot 1. Cash Patel on the way down here, and I said, I assume that we're doing something here. And he said, yes, we've had multiple agents on the ground. We've already talked to Savannah. We're going to use

the video to try to go after the people who assaulted her. and then try to defund their networks that fund those radicals who are going around assaulting activists. That's what we should be doing. Yeah. And I'm reminded, and I mentioned it actually this morning on another media hit I did, but I always think back to one of Charlie's, I think it was Charles actually his last text to Stephen Miller talking about defunding the networks of these left-wing, you know, essentially domestic terrorists that are trying to come after us and hurt us and all this stuff. And it's critically important.

And Scott Besson, its Treasury is still working on this. So we monitor that very closely because it's so important. Because a lot of these groups, they really do need to be dismantled. And they've gotten away for years. They got away with nobody seriously policing them. We've got, I mean, we've had that report the other day, which we'll hopefully cover in the next few days, where, yeah, the Biden administration put all its focus on investigating pro-life demonstrators, including people who just preyed outside of clinics.

And then people who besiege federal courthouses, people who, plan to disrupt conservative events, assault conservative speakers, assault conservative grassroots activists, they get away with everything. Yeah. There was another great moment actually with a student asked question, and I believe she was Indian. And she was saying, you know, about this conversation about immigration, you know, you're, you're lauding the decrease in legal immigration, which again, we're going to get into with Alex Marlowe at the top hour two. What about me, my parents, And, you know, how is that America first? What's the answer?

How do you bring both these sides together? And I thought J.D. did a phenomenal job talking about what is America first? What are our obligations to American citizens, SOT 11? Crating an American, again, a kind person. They probably didn't vote for me after this conversation. But he was kind of sticking his finger in my face saying, you need to support my country. You need to support my country. And I said, sir, with all due respect, if you're an American, you're a country.

country is the United States of America, not a place that you immigrated from, whenever that was. Whether your family's been here for 300 years or one second, to be an American means to look out for Americans first, and that's the perspective we have to take to our immigration policy. Yep, amen. I mean, that's a tough thing because you think J.D.'s married to Ushah, Indian family, and he's got this Indian student asking him about, what about legal immigrants like my parents. It's not the easiest question to answer, but it's also, it's also a great show. shield of course. It gives them some serious

some serious upper hand. Yeah. There was another one here about JD. Let me see. I'm looking for the clip. Oh, the Epstein. Yeah. So it's funny because we're getting

people telling us wrap it up, wrap it up, wrap it up, wrap it up. And JD just goes, ah, just one more. And I was like, good. Good. One more. And, you know, we have no idea what the question is going to be. Of course, it's about Epstein. And I thought he dealt with it really, really well. at stop four. What you see in those emails is that

Jeffrey Epstein hated Donald Trump. And Donald Trump hated Jeffrey Epstein. In fact, one of the emails is about Donald Trump narking on Jeffrey Epstein to the local sheriff saying this guy's a scumbag. You should go and pick them up. So when Donald Trump says, when the president says, this is a

hoax, he's not saying it's a hoax that Epstein was the scumbag. He's not saying that it's a hoax that Epstein was connected to powerful people. He's saying this democratic idea that some how he was Epstein's best friend, that is a hoax. And if you look at the emails, it's obvious that Jeffrey Epstein hated Donald J. Trump. And by the way, one of the best signs for whether you're a good person or not, for whether you're a decent human being, is if the worst people

in the world hate your guts. The fact that Jeffrey Epstein hates Donald J. Trump is a pretty good thing for Donald J. Trump. I would like to be hated by Jeffrey Epstein. Well, Jeffrey Epstein is dead. He's dead. But if he was still alive, yeah. I would have liked to be on on, you know, well, I actually would have been, probably better not to be known, but which is thankfully what I can claim, both of us. So anyways, give me your overall thoughts, his answers. Oh, that was great. You were on the outside.

I was very close to it. I think Vance, he faces a lot of tough tests. I think the administration, almost in a calculated way, gives him tough jobs. But it's like that meme you can find online, like with Jesus. And it's like, stop giving me your toughest battles. you are my best soldier. And I think that's how Vance is distinguishing himself. He is a very good soldier for the administration and for the movement.

And I would be remiss if I didn't. He also mentioned during the event that one of his sons got baptized. Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're right. You're right. That was very glad to hear that. Yeah, which is, I think it was interesting because we started the conversation talking about the attacks on Erica

and both the social media attacks and now, you know, actual. you know, threats against her. And then we kind of went into his Catholic faith. And then he's coming out with a book called Communion that apparently he's been writing for nine, ten years called, you know, communion, which is a very Catholic, which is a very Catholic title. And then we got into the Pope and then, you know, his son getting baptized when he got baptized. And it's something that is interesting about the entire story of J.D. Vance because he said at the memorial, I have talked about God more in the last two weeks than I have in my entire public life. And it's, it's promising to see one of the leaders of the free world, the second most powerful man in America, continue to

talk about Jesus, to talk about his faith, his conversion. And then you see his son get baptized. Yes. Yeah. And it's something that they take a lot of scrutiny for because Usha obviously is, is not. And I think it's really admirable of the way he navigates that in a very complicated, you know, media environment and the way he does it with grace and class and dignity, Wallace respecting his family. I just hat tip to him. I think he's very, he's very talented at it. They put him through a lot of tests, a lot of challenges. I think he steps up to it very well. Folks, let me tell you something straight up. I'm extremely picky about what I put in my body and what companies we support here. Blackout coffee checks every single box. This is a family-run

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welcoming back to the show is one of our favorite guests and that's mark halpern he's the editor-in-chief two-way and next up on the megan kelly network mark welcome back gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen i only have one question for you how long how long would the vice president have to have gone listing his favorite shows before he got to one of mine because you guys were you guys were first and i was like well it's a natural progression to go from your show to my show but i'm glad you saw that clip because I will admit that I was genuinely surprised he name dropped the show. And I was great for it, of course. But it was not planned.

I did not put them up to it. Yeah, sure. I know a cute part. I almost brought the clip with me like I was like, you know, Hugh Grant coming on your show with a clip. I was like, do we have a clip? Let's roll the clip. I don't know why we didn't play that one. That was pretty good.

We should have played that way. I figured you guys would be playing it all morning. Listen, we are honored that the vice president is a. listener and a watcher. And he really does, by the way. He tells me backstage. He's like, no, I really do. It's like the way he stays, you know, somewhat informed on some of the our audience and the base and the movement. And a lot of people listen to it for that. I get so many emails from reporters like yourself, Mark, that use it to stay in touch. Yeah. All right. Congratulations. And I'm sorry, real quick, you did a great job yesterday under

trying circumstances. So thank you. Congratulations. I was honored. I was honored to do it. I was very honored to do it. And, you know, I will have to get it framed so my kids believe. it happened someday. But it was an honor to do it and he did a phenomenal job. I thought he answered the questions brilliantly. He made some news actually. So I want to get to the Democrat side of things soon, but I just have to ask this foreign policy issue within our base has always been the most, I guess, the largest

struggle because the coalition is so fractured on this issue. Iran. We hear now that President Trump is going to be opening the straight permanently and that China had a role to play with it. How big of a deal do you think, just from a political calculation standpoint, is it that we get this wrapped up quickly? Well, I think it's more important from the political side to make it wrap up well rather than quickly. And I think you see in parts of the party, not just the neocons, but people who are supportive of Israel, whether they're neocons or not, who say the president shouldn't take a bad deal. I think the challenge besides the political clock is people I talk to, who are people I talk to,

who are more expert than I am, no one really knows, are the Iranians going to make a good deal from the point of the United States more under pressure or under less pressure? Because the history of the regime long term, for decades, but also during this war, is they don't like to be backed into a corner. They don't like to look like they're losing. So I think the president would like to end it. I know he would. He tells people regularly. He'd like to end it, but he can't end it on terms that are not great for the United States and for Israel and for the world. And so, like I said, I think it's more important in the substance, but also for him politically, it's much more important to end it well than end it quickly. No, I think that's fair. And that's basically, listen,

I was not super enthusiastic about the Iran strategy. I understand the arguments. I can get behind it. I can give the president, you know, some, some patience to do it. I mean, this is why we elected him, right? And I think, I don't want to put words in Charlie's mouth. but that's certainly what he said when Operation Midnight Hammer happened, right? That this is why we elected President Trump to make these types of tough decisions. But there's no doubt it's been a challenge from a coalitional standpoint. You've seen that play out in public very much. But I do agree that you've got to do it right.

Like once you can't put that pace back in the tube, as it were, this war is happening and it's ongoing and we want it to end well. So I agree with that assessment, Mark Halper. I want to get into the Democrat side of the ledger here. Obviously, there's been a ton of news about Swalwell, but it hasn't. I kind of thought this would be, you know, the end of the California gubernatorial discussion because we have the jungle primaries. But a new report from CNN this morning says that Gavin Newsom is working the phones because they're still concerned that the Democrat side is too fractured. Top 14. California's governor, Gavin Newsom, is facing growing pressure now from top Democrats to help clean up what is the scrambled situation left in the wake of the allegations of sexual misconduct and assault by Eric Swalwell.

The whole thing, having also rocked the race for California's governor, according to a dozen leading Democrats, Newsom has now been in a marathon of calls and meetings about this race, the race to replace him as he's term limited. With Swalwell out of that race, as well as out of a seat in Congress, there are now seven Democrats in the running and two Republicans. Swalwell had been considered a frontrunner until the events and the allegations that surfaced in the past week. And now there are a lot of concerns and what has long been a Democratic-led state among Democrats that a fractured race here now could mean Democrats could get locked out given the way that California's elections are set up.

So what do you see happening here? The betting markets favor Tom Steyer, but he's crazy. I mean, he's literally just a report, he's just to just drag ICE agents into prison. His whole immigration plan is arrest ICE agents. Look, Tom Steyer is logically the most likely person to be the next governor of California now because he's got unlimited money and that's a factor and his poll standing is okay and again California election is a

little bit unusual to everybody runs on one ballot and then the top two regardless of party go in the general election but there's all sorts of reasons to think that as my friend britt hume likes to say the dog won't eat the dog food that no matter how much he spends on tv ads he's not going to vote aren't going to vote for him. And then you've got a math game of, if you assume the electorate is 35% Republican or 40% Republicans plus independents who might vote for a Republican, and two candidates split that, and then seven candidates split the other 60%. You could see why Democrats are worried that they may not make the runoff. Now, if either of the Republicans get selected governor, they'll be recalled, almost certainly. That process will probably begin right away if both

Republicans are the ones who get to the final round. So they have a problem unless one of the Democrats catches on. And the view of many Democrats in California, I haven't talked to Governor Newsom about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the people around him and maybe he thought this as well. Right now, you couldn't bet on any of these Democrats to catch on. People are saying Steyer because he's rich. Some of the organizations, the liberal groups who endorsed Swalwell have switched to Steyer, but they're worried. And look, I think Hilton could beat Steyer potentially. Most people don't, but I think he could because Steyer's got a lot of weaknesses as a candidate. So, Mark, I kind of want to take a long view just because you're experienced and you've seen this play out.

So as we mentioned, Steyer is positioning himself with this pretty radical view on ice, basically saying he'll declare them like a criminal gang and prosecute federal agents in his state. So one, do you think if elected he'll actually do something like that? And two, if he does, how do you foresee that playing out? Because we've seen Democrats sort of faint in that direction during some of the anti-ice sentiment surges. I know Larry Krasner in Philadelphia has talked about it, but no one's really taken the plunge. If they were to do that, what impact do you see having it on the immigration debate and on the country? I know it's fashionable in certain circles around this program to say that Gavin Newsom is a crazy liberal. and on some issues he's pretty liberal.

But Gavin Newsom is Barry Goldwater compared to a lot of the Democrats who are in this race, including on some issues, Tom Steyer. And of course, the fashionable thing, the easy thing to do in Democratic politics now is to go to the far left to try to win over the base of the party to get into the final two. Would he be able to enact this stuff? The legislature is very liberal. I don't know what kind of governor he'd be, not just ideologically, but whether he'd be able to get things done. He's a business guy. And although he's run for public office, he's never been in public office.

So I suspect that if he did win, he would govern from the left because that would be the path of least resistance with the legislature. And I think President Trump will have a lot of work to do to deal with a governor besides Gavin Newsom, if it's someone to the far left, for two years. And in the state where one in every seven American lives. Yeah, I actually agree with your assessment of Gavin Newsom. I met him the one time when Charlie was on his show. I think Gavin Newsom's too cold-blooded to truly be radical fire-breathing left-wing. He also likes money and capitalism. And he's kind of, you know, yes, he's very liberal on, you know, the LGBTQ stuff.

And I actually, sometimes, sometimes, yeah, unless he's trying to, he's weather ballooning, you know, the trans issue. But listen, if he was in a Republican state, I think he's basically would be a right of center kind of. kind of guy. I just think that's how he would probably position himself for electoral purposes. So he's kind of one of these guys sticks his finger up in the air and sees which way the wind's blowing. And he's in California. And I've said this too, Mark. If you think Gavin Newsom is bad, which he is, you know, the people coming behind him, it's only going to get worse in California. It's the base of the Democrat Party gets more and more to the left. All right. So we're not sure how this is going to play out. But your assessment is that the Democrat Party is still too fractured to really guarantee that they don't get locked out of both of the top two spots.

So we're going to see some consolidation. I mean, there's pressure on folks to get out. I don't know that they will because it's kind of a prisoner's dilemma until somebody can make the case that they're the strongest. The others will say, well, why not me? So right now I'm not betting on consolidation. But if Governor Newsom gets behind the effort to consolidate and get some of the folks out, I think the chances go up. He still got sway within the party. If you've been listening for a while, you may have noticed something new.

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and they make it easy. Start with a free refinance review today. Go to Andrew and Todd.com. That's Andrew and Todd.com. or call 888-8-8-8-8-1-172-8-1-172-Andrew and Todd.com. Amazing guys. Check them out, please. And I just quoted your show, Mark. I don't know if you remember that moment, but Kamala Harris and the seven dwarves, go ahead and throw up this image of the individuals that are suspected to be running for president in 2028 on the Democrat side of the ledger.

we've got j b pritzker who charlie always used to say was born on third and thought he hit a triple aOC alexandria accio cortez west more uh of course gavin newsome comela harris pete buddagege uh shapiro and gretchen whitmer is this what he was referring to and are those the seven dwarves with camela what's going to happen well i don't think half those people will end up running probably uh just FYI or at least so you know my opinion um You know, right now, everybody's making a lot of assumptions about who's going to run, and including her. And although she leaned into a little bit without Sharpton, I don't think she crossed any Rubicon. I'm not sure who's going to run. I think that a lot of people who are thinking of running are going to think about what it might do to their family,

are going to think about the fundraising realities of running, and may take a pass, people who are sort of assumed to be candidates. Harris is a puzzle. Some of my sources say she's the favorite. Some of them think she shouldn't be in the top eight. And that's true of some of the other candidates. I've grown increasingly bullish on his prospects, but I have great sources who say no, he's got no chance. I think the biggest two questions, not about the candidates, and that matters most, but we don't know who's going to run yet. One is, will the liberal wing of the party, the progressive ring of the party pick the nominee?

I think Bernie Sanders would have been the nominee in 2016 and 2020 if the Democrats hadn't rigged the system against him. how powerful is that wing of the party? And if it is powerful, who's the person? Because right now, the people you showed, really only AOC is of that wing of the party. And then the second question is, there's a lot of people in the party who say, given the experience of the last three elections,

they should only nominate a white male Christian person. And there aren't a lot of white male Christian men on that list. I shouldn't say person, man. not a woman, not a Jewish person, not a gay person, not a person of color. And they're very few. They're very few even under consideration. So those two questions, I think, are going to be a big part of the framing as we think about who's in contention here.

So you say you get wildly different thoughts from different members. What's the basis of that? So for example, let's say they did run. And let's say Andy Bashir did make a serious run. Yeah. Do you think he could get it or do they think that there's just so many people in the party who are innately hostile to that? Like, would he run into problems because he's in that demographic? And they've kind of psyched people up to not like them for so long.

Yeah. My sources are less concerned about his chances regarding demography or even issue positions than the question of whether he's a major league player. The sophisticated people in the party, the consultants, the donors, the electeds, a lot of them wonder. whether the governor of Kentucky is really major league as compared to a very strong double a ball. So that's a concern that I think in his case is dwarfs the question of whether, you know, the party doesn't want a white man or whether he's too moderate on some issues. He's pretty liberal in a lot of issues. Yeah.

So, you know, I've heard from some folks that they're not going to let another woman run. Like the establishment of the party will not allow it to have. Do you feel that the establishment of the party apparatus in the Democrat Party retains that sort of strength, that sort of oomph? I mean, we're past the Clint's. We're past the Obama's. Can they control this? They have some control, but not total. But I would say that the sentiment you expressed is not just about the establishment. I talked to grassroots Democrats, including women of color who say, no more messing around. Like, we wish America would vote for anybody, but we're not going to pick a Jewish person, a gay person, a female. or a person of color. That's a, that's not 100% universal, but it's a very popular view expressed to me,

again, not just by the establishment, uh, because, uh, of the realities of the sample space that they've seen. They just say, why not run a, a, a white Christian straight man and see what happens. Hmm. It's fascinating. I'm so glad, you know, honestly, I'm so glad that I don't even have to really think that hard about this stuff. Well, what occurs to me is we talk about what the establishment would do. yet if I think of, when I think of the Democrats, what I think of is their tendency to sort of have contagious group think? To use an example from our perspective, it's when, for example, abolish the police suddenly became a thing that they would all repeat because it bubbled up from the bottom. And I just wonder, we talk about, oh, can the establishment force this or prevent this? And yet so much of what they do, it just seems almost subject to chance based on what catches.

buyer with their base. Do you agree with that? I do. I do. You know, everything you said is true. And everything you said is correctable for the most part. If they find some great candidate, some really charismatic candidate who can weave the party together the way Bill Clinton did, even though he ran on a lot of conservative things. You guys are too young to probably feel the full resonance of this. But when he ran for president in 1992, he supported the death penalty. He supported right to work laws. He supported free trade. He supported welfare reform. These were positions is just so out of step with the dominant wing of the Democratic Party. And yet he was able to do that and still win the support of a lot of progressives who disagreed with him on those issues but saw him as

someone who could win. That's the model. That's what people like Rahm Emanuel are talking about. But it's a challenge because you've got to be pretty sophisticated and skilled politically to pull that off. Well, you mentioned Rahm Emanuel. I think he's kind of a dark course candidate here, who's somebody who he's called out. Every Republican does. Maybe because he's a little bit more on the conservative side, I guess. I mean, a little bit, right?

He's got the Obama stink on him. But at the same time, he's been one of those few voices that has been willing to call out the radical base and say, we got crazy here. He leans into the stink. He's the one who mailed a, I think he mailed the dead fish to somebody once, didn't he? I mean, Rahman. Who are we? So I'll sum it up like this, Mark. Who are we missing on that, that image that I showed you?

We can throw it back up if you want. Who do you expect to be added to this list? Who do you think is going to fall off from that list? Whitmer and Moore and AOC, I don't think we'll run in the end. I think Rahm Emanuel will definitely run. Again, my sources are divided. Some say no chance. Some say very good chance.

And I think that, you know, Senator Kemp, Kelly, I think, is more likely to run than some of those folks. But it's a very weak feel. It's very hard to handicap because such a weak field. I think right now Newsom and Shapiro are head and shoulders above the rest. I do a monthly 8 for 28, the most likely nominees. And I've had them Shapiro 2 and Newsom 1 every month. And that won't change unless somebody proves that they can build an aircraft carrier and really, really be in the mix.

Mark, what about random idea here? Is any chance, Mark Cuban? You heard that? No. No. Oh, I hear it. I hear it all the time. This notion that someone can walk in with no political experience just because Donald Trump did, I just don't buy.

It's a very hard thing to do. I think it's harder on the left, too, by the way. I think it's just the party apparatus is such that it's harder on the left. Mark Halperin, great stuff is our first time. Gentlemen, good to see you both. Looking forward to the Democrat slate. Yes, absolutely. So thank you for helping us navigate it.

Have a great day. We'll see you next time. God bless you. We've been really. fortunate to work with a lot of great partners over the years of the Charlie Kirk Show, but some relationships are just different. Noble Gold Investments is one of them. They've been a long-time friend of this show.

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Let me say that one more time. 877-646-5347 or head to nobelgoldinvestments.com. Noble gold investments is standing by and ready to help. These are great people, and we're so glad to be working with them again. Welcoming now to the show is Alex Marlowe, editor-in-chief of Bright Bart News. Great publication. Check it every day. And host the Alex Marlowe show. Alex, thanks for joining us today.

There's actually so much news to get into. but I was inspired by my conversation with Vice President J.D. Vance yesterday at the University of Georgia, and he started lauding the administration's achievements on legal immigration. I love the way this whole thing became a story. It started with a gentleman named David Beer from the Cato Institute that published the collapse of immigration report that he was warning the world. You don't know how bad it is. President Trump and the Trump administration has cut legal immigration. you guys need to be aware of it. And I think a lot of people in our audience were like, you know, slow clapping. Like, wow, okay. You know, this is this is what we voted for, Alex. I'll get into the, you know, specifics of the report in just a second. But what is your impression of Cato's report on legal immigration? Yeah, first of all, so Cato's a libertarian economic think tank. And they're very well funded, very well capitalized. And they're pointing this out as a warning. They're very pro, open borders, legal immigration. They think that America, that basically is nothing without importing much of the whole third world and first world and second world, however many people we can get in here. That's their general philosophy. And I think they tell you

that to their face, to your face. So this is a warning. And I think that this is essential to, I think, Vice President Vance's narrative in his rise and why we at Breitbart were very interested in the stuff he'd say back when he was a mere author and not even a senator yet. This is part of the general appeal is understanding that when you're importing a bunch of people from around the world, it doesn't necessarily make life better for Americans. And America's government is obliged to be America first. Supposed to think of Americans first. And importing the entire planet, we can't take care of the whole planet.

It's just not realistic. Maybe some pie in the sky appeal to whatever is in your heart. Maybe you would want to help as many people as you can, but we can't have them all here. It's not realistic. It's never going to work. It also is really negative on our culture. We do have a culture. We have a homeland.

We are a people. We have things that are worth preserving. You can't do that when you import too many people recklessly. And that has been the policy of every Republican and Democrat administration this century aside from Donald Trump's. And so now we're seeing legal asylum entries down 99.9%. We're seeing refugee admission down 90%. We're seeing K visas, which is fiancé and spouse visas, down 65%. Student visas, down 40%.

And H-1B visas sharply reduced. All this is due to the huge fee to be able to get some of these things. This is amazing news for Americans. It's going to raise our wages. It's going to drive down the price of housing. It's a big positive and hopefully the best is yet to come here. Yeah. Well, listen, that H-1B line really caught the Internet by surprise, I would say,

because there's been so much chatter, especially with our students at Turning Point all across the country. You ask them what they're worried about. They're worried about foreigners taking their jobs. They hate H-1B. So the Trump administration slaps a $100,000 basically tax on any new H-1Bs. new H-1B visa issuances down 90%. This is a huge, huge win. And you mentioned some of the other ones, though.

Students from 40 countries are now outright banned from studying in the United States. That should have happened a long time ago. Visa for international students down 40%. Why that's a huge deal, by the way, that funds directly. A lot of the woke universities in this country, that pays their bills. That's why we have so many foreigners because they pay full. freight. You are starving the Leviathan as we as we sit here today. It's happening in real time. Huge, huge. I know you're passionate about this. I want to like Blake get in that this was like music to our ears.

Go ahead. No, I mean, it's incredible. And I think about not even just the direct measures. It's that you can see it's like we talk about the vibe shift in America against it. But you're actually driving a vibe shift in other countries. And this matters a lot. For example, it was actually easy to claim asylum at the border for quite. a long time. But what really mattered is when Biden came in office and when TikTok became popular, it's like the word instantly spread around the world. If you show up and you do X, Y, Z thing, you will get in and it just started a giant engine of itself where we went, I remember one of the countries, Maritania, the country where slavery is still legal, basically. They went from 10,000 of them in the U.S. to 50,000 in about two years. And they were all going to a town in Ohio because there's just a guide on TikTok. Now we're seeing the reversal.

of that. The word is getting out. America's tough to get into. They're rejecting everything. It's really hard. And we're going to see people turn to other places. They're going to turn to other paths. So like even these measures of the actual number of people is not capturing that. That we're getting the message out. Don't come to America. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. I love this too. Alex. Check this out. Throw this tweet up from David J. Beer from Cato. He goes and he was responding to a clip from our event last night where, you know, Vice President Vance is quoting some of this Cato research. He goes, he clearly read my research. Trump and Vance are bragging about how anti-legal immigration they are.

Embarrassing. Very few Americans agree and gives lie to their whole agenda. No, no, no, no. We agree and we like it. We are totally all on board. And I keep saying this to anybody who'll listen, Alex, this is a midterm election, 2026. What is a midterm election? It's a turnout election. You will not get your base to turn out for you if you don't give them stuff that they really want. What does our base really want? We want mass deportations and we want the end of the legal invasion of our country. When we poll this stuff at our events, immigration moratorium, it's one of the most popular things you can poll amongst the base. Yeah, it's great. You guys, I love that you guys are on this because it's so big for so many reasons.

First of all, star with the universities is huge. And even if you're a person who wants to go to an expensive university, part of the reason it's so expensive is because there's so many foreigners who can pay full freight. And some of them might be Chinese. It might take their know-how back to their country and just use it against us. In the long run, others might just basically waste a bunch of time for everyone and drive up your wages. But why I always think of it in terms of my children? Andrew, you got a bunch of children. Blake, hopefully one day you'll have a bunch of children. He's going to have a plan. The idea that I'm going to pay six figures a year in taxes in the system for decades.

And then my kids are going to get educated. And then they're going to get into the working world. And then someone who has never been here, who is no roots here, who's not part of American culture, is not part of American heritage, is just going to take a job from one of my kids because they're willing to do it for 11% less is so insane to me as a parent. And yet this is exactly how we've run our country for last several. several decades. And I think people need to understand that. That's not acceptable. I'm going to show these images that's well said, Alex. These are from our Amfest straw poll. If you show them, it was a,

would you support a zero immigration moratorium? 90% yes. 11% no. All right. And would you, you know, and then we did it again. Would you support an immigration moratorium to the United States? And again, 90% yes, slightly ticked up 0.5%. So this is something that's held for a long time now. You know, so it shouldn't be surprising. And I do one last thing. And then we're going to take a quick break more with Alex Marl on the other side of it. But a new story out of the DHS confirmed this this morning.

DHS employee murdered while walking her dog by a criminal immigrant who was naturalized under Joe Biden. And this is a gentleman that is actually a British national who is naturalized under Joe Biden. It doesn't look like the British. men our fathers knew, but his name was Ola Luke Kitton, Adam Abel. Yeah, I remember that name. I remember that name signing the Magna Carta. Star Wars name. So that is a tragedy. Another unnecessary American death that, unfortunately, we have to live through because Joe Biden just opened the borders. And so remember that when you hear all this infighting. You know, what are we really fighting for?

We don't want our country invaded again. All right. We're going to talk about something that I think is, I think it's important to talk about because I think some people in this audience maybe aren't. I mean, they're aware of it broadly, but maybe not as intimately as we are working with students on campus. And that is support for Israel. Harry Enton from CNN did a whole rundown of just how the numbers have collapsed really since 2022, right? Remember we had October 7, 2023. And it's off a cliff, Alex. So let's play the clip and we'll get your reaction on the other side, SOT 16.

Israel's U.S. popularity problem. Israel is losing support here in the United States, even amongst Republicans. Take a look at this data. Take a look at this data amongst young Republicans. Look at this massive shift that we have had over just the last four years, the net favorability of Israel among Republicans under the age of 50. You go back to 2022, two thumbs up, two thumbs up for Israel amongst young Republicans. But by 2025, look at this.

Already a 30-point shift away, their net favorability down to minus two. Today, look at this, minus 16 points. That's an over 40 point shift in just one, two, three, four years time away from Israel amongst young Republicans. And he continues on, it's about a four or five minute clip, but he kind of goes through every age cohort, and he goes through the different party affiliations. And it's down across the board. I think collapse is a fair word here. What do you, what do you ascribe as the reason here, but also what are the political

ramifications. Yeah, it's interesting. It's a big political realignment that's taking place. And I think a lot of this has to do with just terrible PR for Israel. Israel is really almost no major spokespeople, I think, who are particularly reaching younger people who are pro-Israel who are making a convincing case that Israel is a unique beacon of hope in a region full of Islamist insanity, which is how I regard it. But there's very few people speaking to younger people about that. I know this was one of Charlie's critiques of Israel. I think maybe his main critique of Israel is he found himself of having to defend positions that Israel held that we weren't ones he necessarily agreed with because they weren't really doing a capable job of defending themselves. And I think there's a lot of people who are messaging

to younger people in the podcasting space and the online space who are very much pro-Israel, very much anti-Israel to various degrees. And I don't really know what alternative is being presented to these younger people. And for people who are older, I think a lot of people feel as though Israel maybe is a good country in the scheme of countries, but they don't really want to see American blood and treasure spilt on Israel's behalf. And that's a deep concern that if a World War breaks out, a lot of people assume that Israel is going to be a part of the discussion.

So I'm a pro-Israel person. I like Israel. I don't love seeing these numbers, but I completely understand it given that media layout. Yeah, and as you said, we talked a lot with Charlie about this is a big concern of his trying to get the synthesis that he knew there was skepticism rising, but you want to be able to understand where it's coming from without letting it spiral off into the bad dark alleys that it often goes into. And I remember I was discussing ways that it could be fixed. And what I will admit to having trouble with is it seems much harder to fix now than it even was two months ago.

I think there was a lot of skepticism. But that number you saw it. 2025, it was about neutral. And then it's really bad just this spring. Let's be frank. It's the Iran conflict has really driven young people in a negative direction. And so it's gone in a bad direction. How do we arrest that decline?

Because we don't want the right to be this insane anti-Semite conspiracy theory party, which there are people who would love to take it in that direction. Yeah, short term and long term, I think the short term things is, first of all, Trump has to decisively win the Iran war move on and then also sell to the American people why he fought it to begin with, which I think is becoming very clear. Vice President Vance was crystal with you guys yesterday at the event. It's about nuclear weapons. And it really kind of took people about seven weeks to figure out.

It really was always just about nukes. Trump had drawn a red line over a year ago. They were not going to pursue nuclear weapons or else he was going to bomb them. It's really crystal clear looking back, hindsight being 2020 as it is, that Trump was always going to bomb Iran so long as they kept pursuing nuclear weapons. People should know that. And if we can get this boom that could potentially happen from, ships going to get oil from the United States of America instead of being hooked on Iranian

oil, he could have a really major victory here. And if he can tell that story, I do think that actually helps the cause of Israel, because as of now, people feel like that there's this perception that Israel dragged us into a stupid war. And that is very hard to push back against at the moment. I think that can change. I think also a lot of the most fervent anti-Israel voices out there are gradually losing their credibility with certain audiences. I don't know about it. I don't know about younger audiences, maybe not there, but maybe so there. And I think that that's important is a lot of the biggest anti-Israel spokespeople are lighting themselves on fire in a public way lately. I think over time, that's going to make a difference as well. But Israel doesn't figure out how to

message in a way that doesn't alienate huge groups of people. And I say this is someone who would like see Israel succeed. They're doing really bad job at that. And that probably should change if they want better approval in America. You know, it's interesting, Alex. I had a conversation with somebody this morning that's like a very fervent supporter of Israel, at least historically. And he made a comment to me that kind of took me it back. He said, you know, even I'm getting a little like on edge about it because, you know, there is this perception that, you know, it's like we like them, but we like America more and we want to make sure that our interests are being put in front of our own. And he was like, you know, I can only help you so much here, Israel, like, you know, if you know,

if you don't help yourself. And you got to stop bombing Hezbollah. You got to stop the Iran stuff. You got to just like this has to be behind us or this is only going to get worse. And he was even at he was tired, tired of trying to defend it. And I was surprised because he's been so fervent. And I think I was really telling. Yeah, I think it is.

And the Lebanon example is a perfect example. If you want to go deep in the history, this is an age old territorial beef. Israel has got claims to regions of Lebanon that are unrealized. And Hezbollah, which is in Iran-funded terror proxy, is in the region. and strategically places a lot of their resources, their personnel, their terror weaponry in civilian areas, specifically because if Israel tax them, they can then manipulate the new cycle as they do and they do it effectively. But who cares?

Israel should not be bombing Lebanon right now. It's terrible for Israel's own cause because they're killing Christians, they're killing people who are very sympathetic in the world media. And them choosing to do that right now when we're trying to get a ceasefire in the region, I think only hurts them long term. They would say we're just getting it in now because we hate them. They're terrorists. Fine, but the optics are horrible.

And they should recognize that if they want support. Yeah, I think that was really well said, Alex. I totally agree. It feels opportunist, right? They're piggybacking off of this larger regional conflict. And so why not just get it done, rip the Band-Aid. But it's really rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. It doesn't look good.

Yeah, especially the folks that, you know, want to support them. They're like, what am I supposed to do here when you're taking a, advantage of the situation. And I understand, listen, they're on a border with a group of terrorists. There are rational explanations for this, but optically, it just seems like there's been a lack of appreciation of what the appearance is in America, across the West, and I think it's been really destructive overall, unfortunately. But I'm told we're on the precipice of breakthrough here. Let's hope in the next 10 days we get this all wrapped up. It's time to get out of the Middle East. It's time to get this done and behind us.

let's pray it happens sooner than not. Alex Marlowe, thank you so much. Excellent as always, my friends. Imagine being a young woman just finding out that you're pregnant, not knowing where to go or what to do, not even knowing exactly what is going on in your body. While the whole world tells her it's just a clump of cells, you and I, we both know the truth.

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All right, I'm going to welcome now to the show Jan Yuckelik, who is the senior editor of Epic Time, and the author of the brand new book, Killed to Order. Jan, good to see you again, my friend. It's great to see you. Yeah, thank you for making the time for us today. You've written a book, it's killed to order. I think we have the graphic that we can throw up here. And I know the CCP, China is a special interest of yours,

and you've done this about organ harvesting, which is horrifying. And we're going to get into that. But there's also these geopolitical connections with what's going. on in Iran with China. President Trump just truthed about it this morning. So we're going to get it all of this because it's connected. But tell us about your book. Why did you write it and why now? Well, it's deeply connected, in fact. And one of the punchlines in the book actually is that the Chinese Communist Party instrumentalizes absolutely everything, including, you know, human bodies in the context of killed to order for profit, for elite longevity, and also for the elimination of entire

groups of people. But it also instrumentalizes Iran, for example, right? It's been a premier tool for keeping America's gaze away from communist China, the true biggest adversary, right? That's the subtitle of my book, the true nature of America's biggest adversary, and instead focused on all these non-state actors that Iran has funded and Iran itself over in the Middle East. But so part of why I wrote the book was to expose this very unique next level, organization. trafficking, which frankly, most people or many people didn't even want to believe was real for many years. And still, there's some out there that don't. But also how this horrible industry, this atrocity is actually a perfect lens into understanding how communist China works, even in the geopolitical

context. Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing to understand that there is organ harvesting. I mean, we hear about it in, you know, South America, Brazil, you know, you hear these kind of one-off stories. But to understand that it's so intricately woven into this deep, dark, seedy underbelly of the CCP and the Chinese culture is really telling about the nature of a culture. I mean, if you're letting this happen, if you're institutionalizing, if you're enabling it in some way, that's a dark thing to, I mean, so how widespread is it? How much is this happening? Who's behind it? Who's getting their organs harvested, Yon? I have a billion questions if you didn't notice. Well, absolutely. And let me just kind of explain how it works. And it takes a moment because there's a few different parts, right? In China, we actually have a state actor. That's different than any other. That's like you're running it. It's not a black market exactly. Maybe you could call it a gray market because really only the super elites have access to it. But, you know, it's something that we have a system that's able to push massive dehumanizing propaganda through a population, through the entire Chinese population. You know, they spent years.

is destroying the traditional culture and implementing communist culture, as you pointed out, right? And also they have the ability to incarcerate it through public security, massive groups of people, right? And so why is this relevant? Because this is what you need to get killed to order. Okay, in an ethical transplant situation, someone needs to have a catastrophic accident. They, you know, typically car or motorcycle accident. They also need to basically be able to have the right type of blood and tissue matching blood and tissue because our bodies reject things that aren't kind of quite compatible enough. And that's in addition to these drugs that they use to basically prevent rejection. Also size has to match. The point is it's very rare. But there was a whistleblower that basically,

this is back in 2005, 2006, that told his transplant surgeon, or at least the transplant surgeon was the whistleblower, but the patient told the transplant surgeon, I'm tired of waiting, I'm desperate, I've got it arranged in China, and I've got it arranged in two weeks. And that's nuts because, first of all, you're arranging that catastrophic accident. It means that someone's being killed. But the other part is, how do you get the two weeks, even though you have to match all these variables? Well, so back in 99, to answer your other question, right, there was a group called Falun Gong, which basically the Chinese Communist Party with its history of creating what are called black classes.

These are groups it's looking to get rid of, like the landowners in the early days. It created its newest black class, which was the Falun Gong practitioners in 1999 people practicing truthfulness, compassion, forbearance, very grassroots, very bottom up, no hierarchy, no worship, but a deep spirituality. And 70 to 100 million, more than the Communist Party in that year, right? So what happened was they basically pushed this dehumanizing propaganda. As soon as the dictator at the time decided to make it a black class, they dehumanized them, massively kind of talking points straight out of Germany in the 30s, that kind of thing. Okay. And then when these people wouldn't break easily when they were pushed into the communist struggle system kind of to break them, to get them to give up what they were doing, they incarcerated

a million plus. We don't know exactly how many, but a huge number of people. Then they blood type them, tissue type them, an organ scan them ahead of time, creative database, okay? And now when that person pays a hundred or 200 grand as a transplant tourist, okay, they're basically pre-matched as someone that's already in a database, an innocent prisoner of conscience, and then that person is shipped and killed to order. This is the kind of thing we're talking about, right? It's a very extreme form of organ trafficking. And when no one did anything about it for 14 or 15 years, okay, they added another group, the Uyghur Muslims in the northwest of China, dehumanized them, incarcerated massive groups of them. That's what we're talking about. Wow. So you're saying

the Falun Gong, there's a million or a roundabout, there's estimates that that high. are incarcerated in China? Because everybody talks with the Uyghur, the Uyghur Muslims. I just didn't realize it was that extensive. We don't know the exact numbers today, to be perfectly honest, because every time we did research and reporting on this, they would basically close down the various ways that we were getting data. But in 2005, the State Department in China's massive incarceration system,

we're talking about labor camps, black jails, prisons, reeducations through labor camps, labor camps, all of it, right? half of the people in that system were Falun Gong practitioners. Across a country of, they say, 1.3 billion. So a massive amount of people. We don't know the exact numbers. All of this stuff is a state secret. But to get killed to order, right,

it clearly needs to be a very large number. We have better estimates of the exact numbers in Xinjiang because it's a very localized area. And for a while, we were able to kind of scrape information from there that was very hard, much harder, get from across the entire country. Wow. Okay. So this is the nature of the CCP that we're dealing with. They just incarcerate entire groups of people and then they use them as they will. And part of that is organ harvesting, which is terrible. Now, President Trump has a trip coming up. He's going to be meeting

with President Xi in China. The backdrop of this, of course, is Iran. And this morning we learned that President Trump is going to, quote unquote, permanently open the Strait of Hormuz. Apparently, Xi and the CCP have been asking for this. He said he's going to get a bear hug from Xi. Explain this dynamic between China and Iran. I guess it also comes with that China has agreed to stop selling arms to Iran. So explain this whole geopolitical dynamic that exists there. Well, there's a there's a whole bunch of things in this. Okay. First of all, you know, a promise from communist China isn't worth the paper it's written on or the airwaves that it's being pushed through. Okay. And we have, you know, 40 years of evidence about that.

The president is playing a very interesting game here because, like, I believe the president actually does understand the nature of America's biggest adversary, or meaning that the Chinese Communist Party is willing to almost do anything, right? This is, this is, it's ready to do, kill to order to its own people. How is it treating us? Okay. So, and unfortunately, over decades, they've been able to develop a ton of leverage against us. Okay. Now, straight of Hormuz is a huge piece of leverage for the president, of course, because 90% of the oil coming from Iran was actually being purchased by Communist China. They're basically the funder of the regime, right?

And it's been an incredibly useful tool as a distraction from looking at communist China for the regime, right? And now with basically the Iranian tankers no longer being to be able to take that oil out, That reduces the Chinese regime's ability to get that oil. So he's basically using this leverage to create, I think, more beneficial negotiating tactics. I'm not clear on exactly what permanently opening the straight exactly means. I think it means on U.S. terms and not on Iranian terms. And again, I would be very, very careful about trusting any information from communist China. Because they're always trying to find ways of doing things with the so-called plausible deniability, right?

We're not going to supply weapons, but we'll supply chemicals, which maybe are due use. We had reports on that in the past while, right? Chemicals to run the ballistic missiles and so forth. So we'll have to watch like hawks on this kind of deal. Jan, you like to expose how China is playing this long game with the United States. They see us as the main impediment to their sort of global power apparatus. And you say that China wants us to be distracted. They want us to be distracted in Iran. They want us to be distracted in Venezuela. They want us to be distracted wherever.

But aren't we also in these distractions? I'll be fully honest. I was not a huge proponent of going to war in Iran. I want it done right. I want it finished well and successfully since we've done it. But you could make the argument in President Trump's defense that by doing this, you're taking chess pieces off the board that China relied upon. So isn't this also, yeah, maybe we're distracted and we're not totally focused on the main adversary, which is. is China, but aren't we also really playing our cards well against them to take these power centers, these nodes of influence off the chessboard? A hundred percent. And in fact, you know, when I look at this, I always look at it from the geopolitical perspective. And, you know, Venezuela was, you know, again, you want to talk about a centerpiece of a chessboard. That was Venezuela, you know, this kind of narco terror hub, right, basically supported by Cuba, you know, arguably brought into power by Cuba. You know, communist societies, they don't really work ultimately independently, right? China is a massive backer of communist Cuba as well. And so by what happened in Venezuela,

you know, kind of against all odds, and like anyone was expecting that, that's putting a serious chink into China's ambitions in that region, basically to further create instability and create, again, that distraction in the south, right? So this is this implementation of the newly named Dunrow, the Dunrow Doctrine, right? I see Iran as being part from the geopolitical perspective very much a similar part of a move that's very similar in nature. But the key part, and I think, you know, maybe this is part of your apprehension about what was happening,

is that it has to be dealt with quickly because if America does get bogged down as it has in the past in these scenarios in the Middle East, you know, that will create that precisely the decision. that we're trying to overcome, right? But it's interesting, right, that the president has created this leverage. I mean, it's also created, as people have been pointing out, a much bigger oil market in the U.S., curiously. So I don't know if that's, you know, part of his strategy, but there's definitely a lot more going on than pointing.

And I don't think the idea that, you know, it would kind of Israel forced the hand and the U.S. had to do it. I just don't really buy those kinds of narratives because having Iran not be this source of chaos in the Middle East is a massive win, not just for the U.S., but frankly, for a lot of the countries in the region. Yeah, no, I completely agree. You just have to look back over the last, you know, since the 80s and President Trump has been complaining about Iran. I think he has his own agency. I think that's very clear. You can agree or disagree with the choice to attack Iran, but I believe President Trump has been hinting that he wanted to take care of this problem for a long time. All right. So, and not really even hinting being very direct about it. My question then,

if we are distracted in Iran, even if we get done with it quickly, but we're still sort of bogged down. We have a lot of resources in the Middle East, military resources. Again, we're talking about a regime that will organ harvest its own, you know, what do you call it, black classes or of groups of people. Would they make a move on Taiwan if we are distracted? Would they militarily go in? Do you think they're that bold? have a huge problem, okay, because Xi Jinping has been purging his military in an extreme way, arguably based on our analysis, okay, go back six months a little bit further back, right? Xi Jinping has kind of angered a lot of, let's call it the super elite. You can think of it a bit

like a mafia where he's the dawn, but there's also other power centers in the system. Russia is similar. Because, exactly. And basically what's happened is that he, has purged most of the leadership of the army, the military central commission. There's only two people left, and one of them is she himself, and the other person has no real military experience, right? So this creates, it doesn't mean that there can't be an invasion of Taiwan. It just means that it's a lot harder because they just don't have people with an experience. The other thing that he's created is a weird sort of, kind of an unprecedented situation in the Communist Party, because as in the mafia, there's these kind of

unwritten rules. And the underwritten rules are when you have a group of people that are your support system, right, i.e. the she faction and there were other, there's other factions. Some of them have nicknames, okay? You don't purge your own people, right? Because that's, that's actually, you have safety in that group from that top leader in that power center. But he's actually been purging people within his own power center. So it's kind of like this anything goes situation where a lot of people that even lost what little security they may have had in that type of group affiliation. So I think, you know, they always project this perfect stability. They're on top of everything. The propaganda is always pushing hard. But internally right now, they have a huge problem

that they have to figure out because she has taken back more power, but he broke the key unwritten rules, really kind of for the first time in a sustained way. So they're actually having to deal with some pretty serious internal turmoil. I don't see Taiwan happening in that context. Well, Jan, one minute to go here, could it be suggested if they're getting that turmoil, if they're getting that instability, isn't that possibly how you actually do get a Taiwan fight? If there's a faction that feels the need to assert itself, or if they feel, oh, you know, America is distracted, they could sell them. This will be surprisingly easy. I mean, we've already seen, arguably, with Iran, we may have thought it was going to be easier than it ended up being. They might be able to sell the same narrative

on Taiwan, and with that chaos, someone sees it as their way to take it. Take over China, popular hobby. They can, but they would have to be able to control the entire Chinese military. And I don't think there's a faction from what we're saying that could actually do that without kind of she's will in the first place. Now, you could argue that because they feel a bit backed into a corner right now in a way, especially with this, you know, severe restriction of oil from Venezuela, like all of this, you know, shadow fleet black market oil that they've been getting at rock bottom prices, that they could get desperate. I'm not saying that that sort of thing is impossible. But I do feel like the game for the United States is to start removing the pieces of leverage that the CCP has built over decades into the global financial and kind of geopolitical structure.

And I feel like I feel this is the game and I feel that President Trump is actually affecting that as we speak. And that this recent tweet, I think actually kind of speaks to that because he's basically saying, yeah, let's, you know, we don't we don't need to fight, do it my way. But of course we can fight, right, if we need to. Jan Ukelek, he's the author of the new book, Killed to Order, an Epic Times senior editor and a friend that I've known for a long time. So congratulations on the book, Jan, very important. And yeah, and by the way, I want to say, if you are in the Phoenix area, we have Build the Red Wall event

with President Trump happening on Friday here in Phoenix. So get your tickets, build the redwall.com. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, to charliekirk.com.