The Comedian's Comedian Podcast - Amy Annette

Episode Date: June 25, 2026

Amy Annette has been described by the Guardian as a ‘delight to behold’. Her debut hour 'Thick Skin' was a total sell-out at Edinburgh and was nominated for Best New Show at the Leicester Comedy Festival. Prior to stand-up, she was an experienced producer, script editor and editorial consultant - and is currently working on the comedy drama, Pretty Face. She’s now back with Say What You Like About Me at Edinburgh this summer. We discuss:how Amy’s dual citizenship shaped her sense of humourhow working with Amy Poehler's production company helped her unlearn needing to justify her right to spacebecoming aware of an audience's gaps in cultural knowledgewhy long development processes doesn't mean things are going badlyhow reviews describe women's comedy as "vibe" while crediting men's comedy as craftand we find out if Amy is happy...Join the Insiders Club at Patreon.com/ComComPod where you can instantly WATCH the full episode and get access to exclusive extras including:how people get fixated on the wrong markers of successdiscovering The Artist's Way's concept of "Shadow Artists"and how success often comes from getting out of your own way👉 Sign up to the ComComPod Mailing List and follow the show on Instagram, YouTube & TikTok.Catch Up with Amy: Amy Annette: Say What You Like About Me is at the Pleasance Dome in Edinburgh at 17:30 from 5th to the 30th August. Find all the dates and more at amyannette.net. You can also keep-up-date on Instagram @TheAmyAnnette.Support our independently produced Podcast from only £3/month at Patreon.com/ComComPod:✅ Instant access to full video and ad-free audio episodes✅ Exclusive extra content with Amy✅ Early access to new episodes where possible✅ Exclusive membership offerings including weekly(ish) Stu&AsPLUS you’ll get access to the full back catalogue of extras you can find nowhere else!Everything I'm up to: Come and see me LIVE ON TOUR, find out all the info and more at stuartgoldsmith.com/comedy. Discover my comedy about the climate crisis, for everyone from activists to CEOs, at stuartgoldsmith.com/climate.Get in touch: If you’re listening and thinking ‘I’d love to work with ComComPod on getting something out there’ or ‘there’s someone you should absolutely have on’ - drop us an email at [e-mail]! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Stuart here. You can go to Stuart Goldsmith.com slash comedy for tickets to my national tour. That's right. I'm taking my second ever climate comedy show. It's called Canary. I'm taking it to the Edinburgh Festival for the last two weeks of August at the Monkey Barrel, Cabaret Voltaire. And I shall see you there in the last two weeks of August. And then it's a national tour for this guy. Cambridge, Glasgow, Oxford, Manchester, Cardiff, Maidenhead, Sheffield and Birmingham, culminating in my biggest ever tour show at Bristol Old Vic. Stuart Goldsmith.com slash comedy for all your tickets. Hello and welcome to the show. I'm Stuart Goldsmith. This is the Comedians Comedian Podcast with a lower than usual audio quality in these interstitial pre-roll and mid-roll and indeed end-roll blurbs, like the bits where I'm talking to you solely because it's London Climate Action Week and I'm away from home for a week and I didn't bring my recording equipment. So I'm shouting this into my MacBook. I can only apologise. Today I am speaking to the wonderful Amy Annette with whom I have a very unique... very unique... That's bad English, but nonetheless it is a very unique personal connection, as you will hear.

Amy Annette has been described by The Guardian as a delight to behold. Her debut hour, Thick Skin, was a total sellout at Edinburgh and was nominated for Best New Show at the Leicester Comedy Festival. Before being a stand-up, she was an experienced producer, script editor and editorial consultant. And she's got loads to say about that about what we can learn as comedians from someone who is a comedian themselves, but has also been a producer and script editor and all of those things. She's currently working on the comedy drama Pretty Face and is back with her new show at Edinburgh this summer. It's called Say What You Like About Me.

In the first half, we discussed striving for an authentic persona without making yourself too vulnerable. We'll talk about how Amy's dual citizenship shaped her sense of humour. We'll talk about becoming aware of an audience's gaps in cultural knowledge and learn how working with Amy Polar's production company helped her unlearn needing to justify her right to be there. So all of that coming up and more. There's never been a better time to support us.

Go to Patreon.com.com pod to support this show with £3 a month or more. Instant ad-free access to the full video and audio will be yours, including extra content with Amy. I'll tell you more about that in a little bit. Here is Amy Annette. Welcome to the podcast, Amy Annette. And it's lovely to see you. I never get to see you.

I saw you. I have a core memory. of leaving the house that me and Nish lived in, the flat that we lived in in Coverdale Road, with pregnant wife in car and possessions in car, driving away from my 30s and saying goodbye to you and Nish and Aicester. And I think Rose was there. And you waved us off and I was like, oh, goodbye. Goodbye, old life. Hello, hello, new life and old age.

And so since I sort of saw quite a lot of you. And you married me. Yeah. I mean, this is, I mean, I want to focus on your career. No, no, I don't. I want to talk about your love. Yes, it was one of the great honours of my life to be the sort of semi-officient of your wedding. Yes, yes.

It was such a wonderful thing. And I never see you anymore. And it's lovely to see you. So let's start with a spring in our step. You sent me your show. Which show? What was the title of that show? I can't remember which one that saw, because I feel like I've seen you.

at festivals and work in progress shows at Mac and places like that. And then you kindly sent me a whole show which I think is available on Next Up. Yes, busybody. Yeah, busy body. A terrible name for a girl with the lisp, but busy body. That was my second Edinburgh show, the one I did in 2025, the most recent Edinburgh. Gotcha, most recent. And you're going to Edinburgh again, which I know because I ran into you in the street at the wonderful Exeter Comedy Festival.

Yeah, and I said, wow, you look tan. And I say it again today. Yes, but that's because you're pale. So you've got pale privilege and I've got tan privilege. I do. I do. I feel privileged. With all the perspectives that come along with it.

So let's, I mean, let's take for, we don't, let's not take for granted. Let's talk about that brilliant show. I think probably what was the, I made a note of, you had a joke about something being like your back hair. None of my business. What was the thing you're talking? Yeah. Is it pensions? I mean, to be honest, I say that just in conversation all the time.

My bad behaviours, my bad habits. Yes, my bad habits. None of my business and more of a problem for everyone else around me. I properly laughed out loud. And it's so full of, I think what's interesting, and I've read a couple of reviews of yours, which I would never normally do where I'm not researching a guest. But I read a couple of your reviews.

And it's interesting because a few of them have said, Do you read your reviews? Should I, do I have permission to, okay, fine. You don't want to sort of spring things on people. One of the comments they made, I thought, oh, that is actually, that's an interesting observation, is that like you are sort of, in some ways, I thought this, I thought like, oh, part of this show is a voyage around your phone. Yes, yeah. Do you know what I mean?

A classic sort of millennial obsession with pop culture and facts and listicles and things like this. And I learned a lot. I never knew that about Malina Dittrick. Thank you very much. I shall find out more. So very ADHD friendly show by which I mean lots and lots of subjects. But one of the comments I think the reviews have said is that like if you are a millennial person of this particular age with these particular fascinations, this is like crack. You know.

And but if you are not one of those people, how much work do you need to do to connect with those people? Or do you want to do to connect with those people? Because it's very funny. Everyone's laughing. But there is inescapably like an extra level. of juice for people who also you're pressing the nostalgia button as well. Yeah, I struggle with that, I think,

at my core in that I don't think you're right. I think you're right. I don't actually think, the amount of culture I've consumed and engaged with over my life that wasn't like about specifically my lived experience, but I could still really

enjoy. And, for example, the TV show Frasier, which I keep thinking about because of this mic right in front of my mouth and I think I look like Ross. But like, there's so little in that show that's about me, but of course I can understand it. So, I mean, there's a lot about me. Stop talking about Frasier, fine. The thing I'm trying to say is, when I worked in TV briefly, there's a couple things I made a pilot,

and people were like, I really liked it. And then they would weirdly often caveat. Of course, it wasn't made for me. And I was like, it was made for you because it was on national TV. And it was because it was a story about young, black, British, like, 20-year-olds, finding themselves in London. And, but it was broad, it was the writer, Bollu, Babelola, I love and just went to her wedding.

So, what a... You didn't marry her, did you? No, I wasn't allowed to do. Good. I shall thank you not to marry anyone else. Because she's, no, I have married one other couples to you, but you'd love it. They were lesbians, lovely lesbians, my very good friends. And I remember saying, I was like, no more straight couples, but I will do. Same sex.

Same sex. Thruples, I'm into throuples as well. Yeah, okay. But I, no, I think it is a struggle if you are, I mean, a person who has, you have... any identity other than let's say quote unquote the norm, which is really not me in any other way. But you, people feel like it isn't for them. You're right. And actually, is it, should you kowtow and explain things that, whereas I have not had other things explained to me, I've just understood from context clues and then going later to

understand them, things that, what is the mainstream, what is the norm? But having said all of that, the worst, one of the worst gigs I ever did was in Cheltenham. RIP and it was it was to be fair to me I should not have been opening I was quite early on and I obviously they'd done it in order of experience which is not how you traditionally book line up you have a good new good anyway I was first and looking out at these people who had not taken their coats off because the heating wasn't working I suddenly was like oh I need if not accessible than jokes where I've explained myself to get into some of this stuff

because I was talking about, I think I was talking about feminism at that time, like very explicitly feminism and how it had like left behind certain types of women and how like it had become co-opted by girl boss, all this stuff. And they would,

I could see that they wanted to come with me but I had been so used to doing it in front of people who didn't need terms explained that I hadn't realized what was and wasn't as common as I thought. And so I do think, yes, you shouldn't, if you are talking from your heart and then someone says, like, I've never heard that before, that's a positive thing. That's a great experience. And you probably don't need to explain yourself. But I do think if you want to talk about ideas or people that are very obvious to you, but not obvious to other people, you're kind of doing everyone a disservice if you don't work on getting them there with you. I think that's my line.

Yes. I think so I was in a, I was a guest on someone else's podcast with a Colombian American comic, brilliant comic called Esteban Gast. And he was talking, he does lots of stuff about the climate. And he was talking about how he has to assume his audience are smart, but don't have context. And I think that was, I was like, oh, that's a thing I wish I'd said. That's a really good, like, you have to honour their intelligence and their ability to pick stuff up from contextual clues.

Yeah. But equally they don't necessarily have the context. So I was having a conversation maybe two days ago with our wife about whether, about the relative value of stuff that's inside baseball, which is in itself, if you're unfamiliar with the phrase inside baseball, I've just picked that up from contextual clues. I think it means industry talk, you know, kind of like a specialism sort of talk. Yeah. That I have, I had a joke about the IPCC report in which I likened it to Lord of the Rings because it's everyone protect. They've read the whole thing, but they skipped any bit that involved a council. A lovely joke.

But it doesn't explain what either of those things are. It relies on, if you know both, you're going to love it. If you don't know one of them, you might get it. If you don't know either, you'll feel completely alienated. And we had a sort of discussion about which one I should be going for, which type of, you know, do you write to be universal? Do you write to be specific in the hope that it will become universal? because human experience is specific.

Or do you write, particularly now, what with the internet, millennial amianette, do you write about the things that excite you and buzz you because out there they will find an audience? And I think that's a much harder needle to thread when you're doing live circuit stuff, especially if a lot of it's in London and then you go to Cheltenham. You know what I mean?

Like are there two sort of comedy worlds? You've got the online world and the live world and they never meet or are they only occasionally meet. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? Because I think even without the context of the internet from my experience, because I've been in comedy long as I've been doing comedy or even before the internet became as as important as it has become to a comedian's career,

it was always still about finding your audience, right? You just found them through doing club gigs or any gigs you could and then festivals. And then hopefully when you went on tour, there would be enough people to come and watch you. So I guess like the idea of finding your audience and then showing that audience, your freak yourself. Like your freak fat, fly for those people.

It has always been the case. But you're right. It's something interesting about the internet and the way that people want to engage with things that are so specific, right? Like a specific observation, something that really rings true to them as a person and their identity.

Maybe that algorithms, I think, prioritise that sort of thing. So I don't, I mean, I struggle to understand where the line is. I think probably the answer is just make sure you're not copying out of writing a joke, right? Like, just like observing that it's crazy that there's so many real housewives franchises. For example, it would be like, there would definitely be people in my audience in Edinburgh who would not know who the real housewives were or even like what that wider world is. but if I had an observation about people being obsessed with watching women fight each other, but rich, but it's okay if they're rich, you know, like, that was my observation. Then explaining who the real housewise was would A, be useful for me because I could probably

get some jokes in there and B, probably make the punchline better, right? Because there would be something, in a weird way, having to explain yourself should be a dream, right? Because it means that you've got more like stuff to talk about. which is where the joke goes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I say all the time the problems are the material. And if the problem is these people don't know what the thing is, then that's an opportunity for material for kind of explaining it. I think persona is honestly the thing that I find really interesting when it comes to internet life, which is that I'm not very good at it. But I've spoken to someone who is very good at posting TikToks, for example. And they were talking about how the algorithm literally learns what sort of almost like what,

lighting or what sort of framework. So if you always post a straight stand-up, it will then get accustomed to that. So you could get to a point where you might actually be a very goofy, funny, silly person, but you've only ever put up your like, hard-hitting, political stuff.

And like, it just sort of side, I think as much as you find your niche, they tell you your niche, right? Oh, I see, yes. And they sort of trap you in your niche, basically. Oh, God. Okay. I mean, maybe, maybe. I don't know. Maybe.

No one knows. Not even they know. I don't think they do know. They don't. They don't. I've mentioned this before, but I had a, you might have had one of these meetings at Edinburgh with like a meta person who wants to help everyone have more successful Instagram Reels and what have you. And the way they talk about the algorithm, it's like it's a shining ball of light in a special hermetically sealed chamber that they look at and they tap the glass and they go, it seems to like it when people do XYZ. And it's like, and I'm sure it is like that to an extent. I don't think any, it's not like anyone has sort of direct control over it. And that's just all our careers. That's fine. That's actually lovely.

That's cool. That's nice. I have enjoyed lots of your Instagram output. And you have, have you found a thing, like what's been your approach with Instagram in terms of putting stuff out there? Do you have a particular set of rules or parameters for the sorts of thing you do? Are you still at the stage where, because it's quite a, it's a new. are burgeoning kind of an account. You haven't quite had the explosive thing that I'm sure you will. Are you doing, like, you see some comics who are like,

I'm going to try every available thing. I'm going to do dialogues. I'm going to do sketches. I'm going to do talking head. I'm going to do a thing while walking. I'm going to chuck everything at it and eventually something will stick. And then other people are like, no, no, I do this. I've noticed you, well, I've noticed a thing you're good at,

but you tell me what your experience is first. No, you tell me what I'm good at. Well, I think you're very, I feel very taken into your, your confidence and I feel very um like like you know your stand-up persona is very much like you're a really bubbly effervescent host at a party yeah I think you're I'm a drag queen is what I've decided I am oh yes okay that makes basically like not not not fully like a sort of you know and this is like this praise I don't deserve but like my dream is to be like sort of Dorothy Parker drag queen I don't know who that is oh she was a great wit um okay

her time and she wrote she wrote these she was part of the I think it was I guess it was the 1940s aye yeah yeah this is a problem never ask

a woman a follow-up questions do you know I'm so sorry I'm so sorry never ask a lady a follow-up question no no no she was a great weird and she wrote amazing

poems and just like amazing one liner and she was very very dry and very funny was she a drag queen was she a character played by someone

no no she's a real lady real person but like from this is my struggle. Was it the 20s? Was it the 40s? I don't think it was the 30s. I'm pretty sure about that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And she was part of like an almost otherwise entirely male sort of wit. She had a very famous little Bob, like a little sort of, and we must say 1920s Bob. And she, oh, she's just an amazing writer, right? And she has like, she does, don't take poison liquors quicker.

You know, this sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, mamma me. You know, and those things that RuPaul, or I've heard RuPaul in an interview, say it's great you need 30 things at your fingertips that you could always say so you're never stuck for something to say yeah for sure she would be um an inspiration in terms of sort of like dastardly um dastidly wit you know so my dream is to be basically my dream is to be the woman that drag queens based on act on right love it love it great okay that's a manifesto yeah yeah like way too much and only nice in certain situations but you very much you're very like feminine but in like a sort of sort of Venus fly trap way.

That would be my dream. That would be my dream if I could do it. I want to kill men is what I want to say. No, no, no. No, what is that saying then? So staying with the idea of persona, to what extent is that a choice of yours and to what extent is it you looking at

the materials I have to work with and the things I go towards? You sort of mean like how much of that is something you've discovered and how much of it is something that you're aspiring to? Well, I wish with all things that I had more of a practice, you know, like an artist's practice. And I wish, because knowing I was coming on this,

I forced myself to sit down to think about like, how do I actually come? Did you? Oh, no, that's, I should say on the email, I should say, don't do any prep, don't prepare anything. It's not even prep. It was like, force myself to be present. You know what I mean? Like, I was like, I don't, I honestly don't know.

I mean, obviously I know to my core. I must have done it. I think that all the time. Sometimes I look at my notebooks. I'm like, I must have written there. But I don't recall. I don't recall ever having a thought in my life, you know, that sort of thing. So I think that my persona is probably, so one thing I will say, and God, I thought I was

going to be more succinct on this podcast. One thing I will say is I have watched so much comedy because when we met, in 2013, 12? Yes, something like that. And I was producing comedy. And then I worked in a talent agent, and then I worked for a festival, and I worked in TV. So I've done many of the jobs available in comedy. But all of them involved Edinburgh or watching comedy.

And what that does also mean is I've watched a lot of amazing comedians, including yourself, go on a journey. Like, I've been there for a lot of other people's. And because I'm a big surprise. quarter of everyone, which is I'm not embarrassed about. I'm a fan. I have, I do watch a lot of comedy. So I know that the closer you can be to yourself on stage, whilst still being in control of it, and it's still being choices you're making rather than you're accidentally sort of raw, you know, which can be dangerous, I think. The closer you are to yourself on stage, the better, the more it makes sense as an audience member, right? Like watching, you know, like, for example,

Ashling, who kind of, who was a comedian who I produced with her boss, one of her first, her first Edinburgh show. Ashling kind of came out of the gate herself, right? Ashing Bee got on stage. And if you met Ashting B in real life and you met Ashing B on stage, like, there is a lot of control and work that goes into her shows. I was just opening for her on tour. And so I got to see, that's someone I've watched since 2012 to 2026.

So like I have watched her entire thing. But she has always been able to be super present. super honest and yet because she's a trained actor there is a control there right so she is totally herself but it's a version of herself that she has she is offering to you

and she's not too vulnerable right you're not as an audience member being like oh god is she going to tell me something you're not nervous or anything and that whatever that alchemy is so to talk about my own persona something I think I've been trying to do is let myself

be myself but do the work to make sure that what I'm saying is fully thought because sometimes, as you can tell in this podcast, I will start and I will not know where I'm making it. And I do that on stage as well. Well, yes, so I was going to ask about that. How much of your stuff is improvised in the sense of, I don't think I mean improvised,

I mean kind of written on stage because you have a topic and then kind of are effervescent through it and have a point of view as well. And I think that's the other thing that I really associate with you. I remember you, I can't remember if you contributed to a book on feminism or did you had some greater role

in the creation of the book. But I remember at the time going, oh, bloody hell, Amy's written a book. Well, we're an article in a book, but yeah. Okay, okay. Well, it's certainly, at the time, it certainly hit me. But it's, I remember thinking,

oh, you've got a really clear, firm point of view, and I believe that you have done the reading and the research, and you know what you think, and you're really good at articulating. it. So if you have that as a bedrock and you have the effervescent host persona, then I wonder how much of your stuff is written down in a notebook or a laptop and how much of it is you being on stage being with us and having a thing that you passionately want to say. A bit of both in so much as

for sure I'll have the idea of like, for example, I haven't at all figured out what this is going to be, but something I've thought to myself for a very long time is when women do their making, up because they're looking in the mirror, they smile, right? Women off, I know, I see themselves like sort of leave themselves in the mirror and just give them themselves a wee smile as they go. And I just find it's like very cute and very charming and also speaks to some probably darkness about like feeling that you should smile even at yourself or something. Sure.

So there's something. So that would be the concept, right? And then I do, I do host a new material night, which I think is very helpful. So often I'll take something like that. And I think that the fact that I've noticed the darkness is enough of a value of an observation to share with people. Like I'm not just going and being like, is there something? And like I'll make sure there's some unique thought I've had. But what I have to always do is take that away and actually write it.

Because I used to do these writing courses for this American college in London. So intense. So sweet. So children. Children. American children on a sub year of all. When you say you used to, you do them, you used to lead them. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not entirely sure how they found me, but someone found me and I would, I've done a few years ago and talking to these American kids.

And talking to them one time, I was like, oh, yeah, that is it. I was like, you have your observation, but then you have to write your joke. And like, most people stop at observation, right? Because they're very funny with their observation. They've observed something interesting. They've explained it in a humorous way. Everyone's laughed. And then they forget that, like, you have to add the joke, which is your point of

view, your persona's point of view or wordplay, or whatever it is, whatever is your thing, or like your analogy or your understanding of its place in the history, whatever it is, but like you have to add that bit. And I think that's, that's my, always my thing that I must. But I don't always do. What do you mean? Oh, I see what you mean. I'm, I'm very conscious. That's a bit where I'm always like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Going to write that big joke at the end. Absolutely. Yes, gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. But often, you, I suppose for you, the reason you might not otherwise

do that is because often your observations are already, like with the mirror thing, like that's a really interesting base observation. Leaving herself in the mirror. Wow, wow. So maybe, yes, I see what you mean. You might need to push yourself then to go

and now let's pin that down. Yeah. Well, this is the Cheltenham thing. What's the joke? Yes. Where's the humour? Yeah. Tell me then about your pre-comedy life as a person who did every other role in comedy production. How did you bring yourself to it originally?

And before we do that, you are secretly North American. Yeah, that's why I'm so nice. Are you, have you got one American and one Canadian parent, do I recall? Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm from North London and where I'm from, not unusual at all. So many North Americans there. Like, until I was 16, I only had a Canadian passport. And I remember going on the, you've gone to go on the, you've gone to.

a battlefields school trip seemed to be a sort of like weird right of passage you just yes one or two yeah yeah edge hill I seem to remember yes I think I'm cast back and yeah yeah you take yourself in like one one year if you had got I think you've done GCSEA anyway we got taken to

France and we anyway I just really strongly remember realizing that every single person in this like dorm room that I was in we all had parents who were not from the UK like it was just a very just whatever bit of London I'm from so and none of us had we had real trouble getting back into the country.

There's really the end of that story. Me, a Greek lady, and three Canadians, we just could not get back in. But despite that, I'm so English, I think, quite British. Because I was brought up here. So I am secretly North American. It is true. And when I go to the States, I am surprised by how much I fit in with them.

Oh. Vib wise. Vib wise. Okay. Yes. Yes, you do seem up. Now I think of it. I am a bit. I am a bit.

That's where we get on because you have a North American energy, I think. Compliment. Oh, do I? I do get on well with Americans. They're quite optimistic and if you have an idea, they go, yeah, great. Yeah.

And also you have a really, I can't believe you have it, a sincerity that from your upbringing background and everything you've done is like, should have been beaten out of you long ago. You've held on to it. Thank you. Thank you.

This is the, opposite of the year when Helen Bauer appeared on the podcast and we talked about why I was cringe and I think it's because I'm sincere and I think that's it. Yeah yeah yeah so I've reframed that now I've done the work yeah you've done the work about oh my god if I am cringe I don't care because I'm sincere and yeah that's interesting that thank you that was a delightful observation about me listen Stu I've known you for a long time and if you want we could make this about your journey and like no but I think you you do have an ability to like really think about what people are doing

and why they're doing it, which is not, I mean, not that Americans and Canadians are, like, particularly better at, like, thinking about things necessarily. It's more just that you're right. They just, if you have an idea and you speak to a North American, often they'll be like, okay, right, they're just, they're not even like, I'll help you. Sometimes they will, but often they're just like, fantastic, I can't wait to see it. And that does, is not British, I don't think. Yes, the quote I always remember about the difference between British and American culture.

was it Gary Oldman, who said in the States, if an American kid sees a fancy car, they go, one day I'm going to own a car like that. And in Britain, if a kid sees a fancy car, they key it. And I have to say, a small part of me is like, that's funny, then you should keep a car. You know what I mean? I see both sides. So for my production background when I was working in TV, I really strongly, one of the coolest things that ever happened to me was I was on a pitch call with Amy Polar.

and it was one it was so cool on so many ways I was not a major part of the call but because I'm also called Amy at one point she went to be like I'm the other Amy I'm like mom that's fantastic we are both Amy but before we got to that point I was pitching stuff to her production company and I really strongly have this memory of almost the nice women who the very smart nice women who worked for her almost being a bit like chill out because I had got so used to having to prove why I was there, why I thought it was funny, explain to them why they had to do it, and also why I was not too young or too female to be the producer. And like in the UK, you kind of have to go hard, right? And then I could almost feel these American ladies being like, well, you're here. So why wouldn't you be able to do it? You know, like that is a really huge difference, isn't it?

Yes. Huh. You tell me a bit about just, well, well, I'd like to hear more about how. how hard you have to go to prove yourself in those kind of rooms in Britain as a woman, as a young woman. Tell me when the best point for us to talk about that is in the journey of the various roles you did. I guess, so this is the only thing I was really thinking about before. I was like, if I was listening to this podcast and I was listening to myself, the thing I think I can, two, a couple of things I've done since I left TV is I've worked for my friend who worked at the Royal Court.

I went in and spoke to her writers about how to pitch or what it is. is to write for TV. And I kept being like, there's a lot of inside baseball stuff that from being in the comedy industry, you often, when you're an audience member or a comedian, you assume that there's a lot more logic system and practice than there is. And I don't blame the producers for that because most producers are hired on a short-term contract and they are there to. to make a specific thing. And if they don't make it in a certain amount of time, that's the end of their contract.

So like the system is not really set up for anyone anymore to succeed. But you often are waiting for people to tell you that this idea is good and you are hoping that they will. Whereas in fact, you sort of have to tell them it's good. Like you cannot, they and none of them are paid well enough or the ones who are paid well enough are there because they've never made a failure.

So they don't want to be, they don't want to suddenly make a, failure and lose their amazing paid job. So you have to tell them. And I think that is such a difficult thing to understand that when you go into a room and you're pitching a show or anything, you are, it's not, it's not a two and fro. It's not a tennis match. Like you have to go in and just smack the ball and be like, this is your ball now.

You know, that is it. Yes. Yeah. That is that I can totally see the sense of that now. I think in the last couple of years I've experienced that. for myself now that I have a thing doing the climate stuff that I do I really passionately believe it

I know more about it than a lot of people in the room sometimes in a sort of pitching environment and as a result I feel much more like oh you should do this this is the right thing for you to do and it's such a different vibe it's such a different feeling and if I think back to other kind of meetings I've had where I'm like oh has the spotlight briefly fallen on me

do you like me I'll be here then and do whatever you want and you're like no that's not what we want at all. No. You have to do it for them. That's the only way I can, because obviously it doesn't go, it gets a core to be like show-offs, which is insane thing to say because as a comedian, literally all you're doing is that they were showing off. So this is Amy, Amy Annette, say what you like about me is at the Pleasance Dome in Edinburgh at 530 from the 5th to the 30th of August. You can find out all dates and more at amy annette.net. That's rather sweet, amy annette.net. And you can keep up to date on Instagram at The Amy Annette.

I'm going on tour myself for the first time in a very long time with my new climate comedy show, Canary. It's fair to call it a comedy show because it is a funny show. It's not all about the climate, but it's not all about the climate. I'm going to be in Edinburgh at Cab Valle. That's Cabaret Voltaire, the Uninitiated, at the Monkey Barrel, from the 17th to the 30th of August at 2.25pm, which is the second two weeks, the final two weeks of the... keep, I don't know how to say it, the second two weeks, if you count the first two weeks as a unit. It's not the second and third week. It's the second lot of two weeks. It's the second half,

basically. And so 225 at Cab Vault, come and see that, all your details at Stuart Goldsmith.com. And then I'm going to be on tour in Cambridge, Glasgow, Oxford, Manchester, Carnif, Maidenhead, Sheffield and Birmingham. And then the tour will culminate on the 18th of November with the biggest headline show of my young life at Bristol Old Vic. Super excited about that. Stuartgoldsmith.com slash comedy to find out about tickets and you can also sign up for the ComcomPod monthly mailing list which is now a real thing which evil producer Callum makes me sort out and as a result I can confidently say for the first time in my life is a regularly occurring thing. Coming up in the second half we're going to talk about how long development processes don't necessarily mean that things are going

badly, huge relief to me, been working on this latest show for two and a half years now. We'll talk about why audiences crave the resolution of a setup. We will talk about. We will talk about how reviews describe women's comedy as vibe whilst crediting men's comedy as craft and we will learn James Aicester's piece of advice that changed everything. Let's get back to Amy Annette. Assume that when you go into those like gatekeeping spaces that it's up to them whether or not you do it or don't do it, which it is obviously literally up to them but they need to be told. They need to be told because there's so many decisions.

that they have to make that like if you have any prevarication or any wavering you're like I don't know maybe it's like oh well I'm gonna have to fight for this show for up to four years so I have to 100% believe and that's the other thing I would tell people do you want to work in TV it's a very long game and it doesn't mean that you're doing badly like Jamie Demetru when I was working in a talent agency he was my boss's client and I was there when he did the blap for staff and then I left four years later and he still hadn't made the series. So that entire time he was developing that show. And now that's one of the great shows that have come out of UK comedy. But for a very long time, he was pushing and fighting and changing and it just, you know, it was a confluence of situations in which he got the green light. I think the head of Channel 4 went to a gig he was doing. So it wasn't even just as simple as like, it was the right idea at the right time. Someone who had a lot of power was like, this is great. And someone was like, we have a show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great. So it's like, basically, don't take it personally, do be confident, and just tell people you're the best, even if you obviously, internally, couldn't agree with anything. I hope you can make my insights more smart. Thank you. Ah, well, let's talk about that. And that means we have to keep in all the sneezing stuff. That's fine. Let's talk about that. Do you suffer from the thing that I think is best typified by I can't remember who did the sketch.

What's the sketch with the American women meeting in a park and they're all going this, oh, this old thing. Oh, I love this. Oh, God, no, it's dreadful, isn't it? And one of them goes, thanks, it's really good. And the others are like, you bitch. Should I mean? Like, if you believe in yourself, do you know the sketch? I'm so annoyed. I can't...

Is that Baroness von Sketch show? The Canadian? No, I don't think so. No, it isn't. It's someone famous and American. I don't think it's Amy Polar, but it's that of someone of that ilk. This is a pathetic example. I'm sorry, and I wish I knew more to. But yes, and in fact, I've got some stuff in my show about how bad we are taking compliments and how confusing it is when Americans take them.

You just said loads of really interesting, insightful stuff, and then reflexively, automatically said, oh God, you're going to have to make me look cleverer in the edit or something, which is nonsense. Tell me about that. Well, I've spoken to Celia AB about this. I think that when you're a young woman, you make a choice, sometimes consciously, sometimes unconsciously,

are you going to be fit or smart? Because it's a lot of work to do either, right? So you've got to choose one. I mean, actually, there is a third option, which is just like quiet and there, which... Oh, God. And respect to those women, because what they have decided is what is the point of me.

I'm very interesting and fun, and you will get to know that when you get to know me, but I'm not going to fight for your attention. And to be honest, if anything, those are the happiest women that I know. you know. Okay. They're the ones of the slow burn people that when you become friends with them,

you're like, you're amazing. How did I not know this? And then they're like, because when we were all hanging out, I wasn't like dancing in front of you doing the jazz hands, you know, like in a way. But maybe this is a comedian's thing. But I think trying to be smart girl is almost as much of a trap because some of it also obviously comes down to what is your personality when you're a kid and like what you got told you were good at and all that stuff.

And there's a lot of stuff. I know you have a daughter as well about being like prodigal. And like basically often young women are quite good at the early bits of school for whatever reason. And then they're told like, oh, you're smart. And then those girls internalize that. They're like, I'm a smart girl. And then they meet something that they aren't immediately good at, like language or for me like math. Maths.

Thank you. So sorry. The mask slipped for a horrifying moment there. don't take my passport and we internalize that and so then when you meet something you're not immediately good at you're like oh

I will never do this because what you haven't learned as a young person is that there's a difficult thing and if you do some work you can get good at it right and you don't learn that process anyway all of which is to say that is my personality

and so then I think wanting to not even wanting people to think you're smart but caring that you are doing the ideas that you have justice

can be really positive obviously because it means but then I do yeah it can be a trap I think because then you're thinking more like what is the have I used the right word and the right context rather than just sort of honestly

communicating is that an answer? Is that an answer she says? Well weeping into the mic is there could you can someone do classes for female comics to help them feel

more entitled. Like you could get a shot of mediocre white man entitlement or something. Do you know? Because I feel like that would be you know, I don't know. I don't know. It sort of feels patronising.

We know what we're talking about here. No, no. That's not a shame. That's not patronising at all. No, it's not patronising what you're saying. And also it's even more than that though. It's that you are judged more harshly for trying sometimes.

I think it's a woman. I think if a woman tries to do something smart, let's say, or like engage with a big idea and say, I'm interested in, you know, an economics idea, for example. You then have to be so hyper-confident. And I think you almost have to say out loud, I'm very smart, before people will get on board with you. And I think you, I mean, as we know, as I also know from reading a lot of reviews of female comic, often they are doing very intricate structural things but the review will say something like

they're such a fun vibe they're wacky and you're like sure yeah absolutely but also like for a men's review sometimes they'll write the joke out which is obviously bad form but like very I've noticed that very few female comedians have their jokes written out in their reviews I think it is because there is so little idea

that they are crafting and writing and it's all about like, what a great vibe. Yes. God, that's such a good observation. Oh, I'm annoyed. I didn't notice that myself. Yes, I completely, I feel like this isn't a scientific response, but I'm sure I've seen that. I think I agree with you without having the stuff in front of me. Like, I definitely, I see a lot of men having their jokes written out.

And I don't think I've seen that as much with women because it's exactly as you say, the sense is that either they're funny or they're not, whereas they're not a craft person like a man would be. Yeah. Yeah. Which I find,

obviously I find exhausting, but in a way it's kind of charming because what you can then obviously do is be like, well, I'm not being judged properly. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, I don't have to take this super seriously because I've noticed, again, this is the great joy of being in comedy

before doing comedy, I've noticed this thing. And so then when I'm doing it, I'm like, try to remember the thing that you know. But I do feel very strongly like there was an amazing play with Zoe Kimsma, Ursula Martinez, and I think Adrian Trescott. And it was called Wild Boar. And the tagline was like, it's about criticism. And I was, I did go and I was a little, you know, kind of, you don't, I don't love hearing people talk about criticism. And so much as you just want to be like, live your best of life, be free.

But the thing I always remember is Zoe Kim's Mar bit. She talked about how she did a show where she ends the show sort of like sweeping up all the mess that she's made. And it's part of the show, obviously. And the review was like, but my favorite bit, completely unintentional, when we were watched Zoe clean up all the mess. And Zoe in the show is like, the doors were shut. The lights were down. Like you have done way more work to make it an accident than the reality. So I think all of which is to say I do agree that women should have more confidence

because I do think why not. But also it is hard when all the work you do is very rarely at the scene basically. Yes, yes, acknowledged. As in like this is some really great craft. Yeah. Pasco gets it, I think. And that is because she is so good at pointing out the, the, like, craft of her work, I think. Like, I think people might put a Pasco joke. Yes. Is she the sort of, is she effectively doing that thing you said of saying out loud, I am smart? Yeah. She's sort of doing that, isn't she? Yes. Yeah. Oh, God. So she is my, like, what I'm thinking about when I think of, like, good smart girl comedy. Like, like, still her person, she's, she's.

totally herself. She's not pretending to be someone else, but she doesn't, you know that she's in charge of everything she's saying and you give her the credit for it. And she doesn't do, she doesn't ever do, oh gosh, you'll need to fix that in the edit, ever. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah, very good. That's a really, that's another very interesting observation. Let's talk about, oh, we've been talking about your, so you're producer and then you worked for an agent. Yes. I basically had every job you can have a comedy. This is so fun. So tell us about the inside story,

because no one ever talks about agents, because they've all got a good relationship with their agent or a horrible relationship with a former agent that they slag off anonymously, and just try and not make them visible. But from the inside, what are some of your observations about how comedy works from the perspective of agents that maybe comics don't realize?

Yes. So the only caveat to that is that I worked for an agency that had a newer comedy department, but was actually mostly writing and acting. So I've not worked in the pure comedy spaces. in terms of agents, which I think might be slightly different. But my main observation is these are people doing a job and as much as you want to have an emotional relationship with them and as much as they want to have an emotional relationship with

them, you do have to remember that they should at 630 because they all work till 630 for some reason, clock off and, you know, have children and stuff. And like I sometimes think the emotional relationship that people want to have with their agents is may be kind of almost unfair on the agents, to be honest. Like, I totally get why it happens because you're a person, a human who's making art often about yourself. And so then someone is like, I would like to have a professional relationship with that version of you.

So I get, I know why it happened. But I think that in that, in that space, if good agents are wonderful and will support you, that's where bad agents or like cowboy agents can really exploit people. Because you've basically signed your soul over it. right? You're like, this is my soul, which I found a way to put on stage, and now will you take some percentage of money for me? Like, that I think that the intimacy of that relationship, I totally understand what happens, but it can actually be very dangerous, I think, for people if they're not secure in themselves. And that's one thing I've seen is, you know, agents who have

now long, who are not even agents anymore, their clients were bereft. And it's like, oh, but you were a comedian before you met them. Like, I think the intimacy of that relationship, If the agent is responsible, can be wonderful, but it is a real, it's a danger thing. Yes, I think the advice I give to newer acts who are meeting agents is that it's a bit like a kind of dating relationship, whereby you don't want to go in and say, I'm really desperate for children, I need you, you know. Instead, you need to sort of do the dance and play the game to an extent. There's a sort of a negotiation aspect to it, because you are, after all, dealing with a professional, relationship whereby, and I came to it from the first agent I had was an actor's agent. I was an

actor for a few years. And that was such like, if you've got an agent, then you're a professional. And if you don't, then you basically can't be. You can have a co-op and who knows whether that will work if you're lucky to kind of get that. So there's this enormous kind of invested energy in kind of going, I'll only be proper if this relationship works out. And I think that's the antithesis of what you're describing, which is that self-confidence of, look, I've got a career anyway. It's very similar to the going and, you know, socking the tennis ball at the producer.

I'm good. I've got stuff to offer. I need someone to help me negotiate the work because I'm best at doing the work. And I think that's, so to return to that kind of the relationship analogy, it's like I do, I have seen relationships with agents that felt like, ooh,

codependent relationship or unhealthy relationship that you might be better out of. Yeah. But who can bring that up? And I've seen it both ways, right? I know it sounds like I'm like, agents are dangerous. I am not saying that. I have seen, especially, to be fair, this is more acting than comedy. But like, you know, I've seen agents have to take calls at their,

at their, like, father's funeral because someone needed. It's like the problem, I just think there is a, I don't know, like almost a fetishization of that codependency that is I, but I say some of that as I don't, I have an agent who is my friend who I used to work with and we used to weep together in the streets because we were both. at the same time. So like, but she is, she is more of a writing agent and a producer's agent and that's how we started working together. So for a lot of like straight comedy stuff, I do that on my own. So I think I haven't yet actually had the experience of like necessarily working with a

comedy agent, you know, someone who's like in the game. So I can only really speak from the side of the agent. Really. Yes. Yes. Okay. Gotcha. What need in you does comedy satisfy? please. Such a scat. Like, no plan. I love being understood

and I think I naturally in conversations bring up ideas and facts and things and try to connect them. That is almost certainly ADHD, but like the sort of

need to be like, well that's that because of that, which conversationally I think can be exhausting, is probably something in me really it likes the connecting of dots. And I think stand up really works well for me for that and like bringing ideas together. And increasingly I now realize as well, like I, my persona if I have one is just like me, but a bit more high status and a bit sort of like satia to men. And I get, I get a lot out of that. Oh. Okay, okay. I should have a follow-up question to that, but I do not because part of my brain was thinking,

we've got to wrap up soon. I know. I don't know if I said anything good. Yes, I have. Sorry. Sorry, sorry. You don't have to say that. This is the, this was suggested by Brendan Burns recently, not specifically about you.

This is the Stu Who memorial question. I don't know if you would ever have gigged with wonderful Stu Who died a little while ago. Bless him. You don't say bless him. Do you say RIP? I don't think you'd mind. No, I don't say RIP about people who have actually died. No, do you know, oh, I see, you say RIP in a comedy movie.

Yeah, you know, like Louis CK, RIP. Yeah, RIP, yeah, I do that. Doing comedy in Cheltenham, RIP. You understand. Yes, okay, so Stuhoo, bless his heart. He was a delightful, funny person who was very kind to me. And the Brendan Burns' Stu Who Memorial question says, who was the journeyman hand on your shoulder when you were ready to quit?

Was there? And this is specifically like a journeyman in a kind of, or a journey person, a comic who you regarded as a sort of a kind of trusted elder person of comedy who said something useful to you early doors. Like I can, I've probably had little encounters like this pre-podcast, because obviously the podcast is me effectively soliciting a lot of that stuff. But I would have had encounters with, for example, Tom Stade or Incognito where we were on the road. together, I was driving them, they were the headliner, I had a tough gig and they said something

nice about it. Yeah. If I think about Journeymen who have been around me, I think I'm lucky in that I have honestly, truly accidentally managed to sort of friendship-wise surround myself with amazing comedians. Like, everyone is, I have a sort of like a confusingly successful friendship group, which I will say was like quite tough for me going into comedy. You know, because I know what it looks like when you do very well. Yeah. Let's pause and just talk about that. That's a funny and lovely vulnerable thing to say.

I mean, yes. So you've got very successful comedy friends. And that must be hard when they're all streaking ahead and winning awards and being some of the best in Bryce's comics. Well, I mean, streaking ahead suggests we started at the same time. Like these are people who are like, it's almost like, I was like caddying for various, incredible for me to use golf. I do not understand.

I was caddying for very fantastic golfers. We know them. And they don't need names. And I suddenly was like, hey, guys, maybe I hit the ball this time. You know, like, to be fair, it wasn't quite like that. Because I obviously didn't do comedy in front of them for a very long time. I was doing it away separate on my own, doing open mics, trying to avoid. In secret?

In secret or just away? But just, you know, they're not there so they don't see it. No, not secret. I mean, to me honest, the real truth is nobody cared. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Nobody cares, right? Yeah. People have come up to me like, it is impressive that you did it.

And I will say that it was, yeah, a little awkward for sure to look at a lot of people who are professionals at a thing and be like, I now would like to also do this. And then, you know, I think early on I probably got, I did a spot. at a place that was too good for me and I felt that and I was like okay I don't want that anymore I need to go further away from this world that I have some access to so yeah I think there's some of that but mostly it is realizing that nobody cares and also that comedy is not like a thing that you can like inherit so there's no one way in really

so there's no you know there are other things where it would be odd if I had started to do it but doing stand-up is not that if you keep going obviously you have to get to a certain, you have to work hard and try hard. But, and I definitely have got opportunities because I know the people I know. And I've got opportunities because I worked in comedy for so long that by the time I was like, I would like to do stuff, I was, I'd already spoken to those people, but just for other people. So certainly it was helpful in its own way. But most of comedy, obviously is doing stand-up.

But the rest of it is just getting your head across the industry, right? So in some ways, I did comedy. Just, I separated it over two times in my life. Yes. I still don't feel like I've got my head across the industry. If I think about how fluent and articulate and confident I am with some of the sustainability people with whom I now work in different contexts, performing with them, collaborating them on things like that,

and then I'm in a room with comedy people of equivalent ilk. Yeah. I feel like, oh, I'm not that guy anymore. Because I'm just another fucking. comic and I'm just yet another one. And I, there's always this base assumption for me that anything I say is obviously craven and needy just because I spent a long time feeling very much on the outside and like not entitled. I felt I have a certain amount of entitlement like, oh yeah, I can stand in front of people and try and make them laugh. And zero entitlement when it comes to,

there are superstructures in place here that I don't know and have never been inside of and I have no perspective of and yeah. So I feel that very, it's really interesting. I'm interested to note that in myself the other way round and go, oh yeah, I think that's a really good way around that you've done it. Maybe, given that now comedians are all expected to be producer editors and CEOs of a band of one, maybe everyone should start with like, I want to be a comic, what do I do? First get a job as a runner. Have you got a job as a runner? Now start assistant producing and quietly do some gigs on the side. Yes, exactly. And yeah, have the knowledge that everything you learn in that time will definitely come back. Yes. For sure.

also most of it is just like understanding that there is no super system as I think I've said yes yes yes yes there's no system there are systems that's why I brought it up is because I wanted to just drill that into my head Stewart there are no super systems I continually feel on the outside of something no no you're in it baby but also more than that there's no in it to be in baby you know like yes yes you are you are baby I am baby but we are not there's no baby together you know it's very different and also there is superstructures though but they are let's say poverty, inequality, racism. It's like those things are there for sure.

So I'm not saying that not systems. But there's not some like magical coterie of people who know what's going on. Yes. It's fake it till you make it. Sorry to say. Love it. Thank you. Is there anything?

Oh, I tell you what we haven't done. Are you happy? I think I am. Is that a good answer? I, by what I consider happiness, yeah? I'm not sad. Stop being silent, Stu. You must say work.

Don't let the tape run out. I'm going to be silent because when I'm not, when I'm silent, people say things like, oh yeah, yeah. I'm not sad. I know. What a wonderful answer. You were doing a really good. You're very good at it and obviously famously Martha, oh God, not Mark Stewart. Doesn't matter.

Move on. Do someone else? Anything else we didn't cover that you, in your preparation, have you made it? Did you bring notes? Did you make notes? Yes. What I wrote was, uh, advice writing, which was just like, you just have to also write the joke. Have the observation. Write the joke. Um, I think the only other thing I wanted to say was I did a radio show. And it was, uh, well, a special. And the reason I would talk about it from outside of just showing off and just really asking people to listen to it was, um, it's called I Survive the Nauties. and it was a half-hour version of my first show,

which, to call back to a previous question, was a show in which I did not necessarily explain references, because I was very much talking about being a millennial teenager. And if I did that show again, it was my first show. If I did that show again, I think I would enjoy explaining stuff more rather than just sort of going through it. But anyway, that's the journey with that. But I, in that show happened,

And then I did another show, but in that time they got the commission to do the half hour comedy version. And so then I worked with a script editor called Sarah Campbell. I know Sarah Campbell. She's great, yes. Such a good writer, great performer when she was in her sketch group, with Amy Hoggart, Christmas for two. The thing about me, Stu, is I can remember every sketch group from the 2010s. But she is an amazing writer and she and the producer Lindsay Fanner and together, and especially with Sarah.

Also wonderful. Very lovely lady. We spent hours on a Zoom. and Sarah and she really was good at asking me what I meant right I think a lot of times I think it's really it's so obvious what I think I'm saying and it is less obvious and some of that is just brain fears right like if the way that you come up with things is being like that's crazy then you don't if the process isn't slower then maybe you don't understand that what you've you've jumped A to C and you must hit B

with your audience members and She was very good at doing that. So I've finally had the experience of working with someone whose entire job is to make me a bit more legible. And that has been... That's great. That's great. Great shout out for them and them. And also, that's really interesting in terms of being made more legible.

Yes. I've said out loud to audiences before because I'm a self-indulgent idiot. But don't worry. In a work in progress gig, I'd say, don't worry, that is funny. It's just that I have failed to successfully communicate to you what I find funny about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's nice to hear myself say to remind myself back when I listen to the recording.

Oh my God. And also the amount of times that you assume that you've messed up a joke because it's a bad joke and then you would listen back and you're like, oh yeah, I forgot to say that bit. Like, the, the, the, the, the, the, the people are, people's brains crave connection, right? Like, that's why my great obsession, I'm sorry to do this because I know we must end this podcast. But on Instagram, there's this great, um, a few people, if you ever start to watch a video on Instagram, which is like, I want to stop being addicted to my phone. I, you start getting all these other videos being like, get off your phone, which I find very funny. Like someone just being like,

hello, get off your phone now, dream. But one video I got was about explaining how anticipation is the thing that is killing us. So the video starts with a very grainy video of a man who's visibly about to trip over a bucket, right? And I'm watching this video, I guess unconsciously being like, I'm going to watch this man trip over a bucket. And just as a trip is about to happen, a man comes onto the screen and he's like, anticipation is keeping you on this app because you, your brain is obsessed with the sort of the fulfilling the end of whatever thing it thinks is about to happen. Yes, okay. And I really understand that.

Like, because also if I was on YouTube, I wouldn't like search grainy video man tripping of a bucket. No, of course, of course, of course. But when it pops up, I'm like, yes, please must know. I want to see the trip. So I think stand up, if you give people or if you give them the grainy video of the man with the bucket. You know, their brain is like, ha ha ha, yes, please, yes, please. And so then you give them the solution or the surprise, whatever the thing is that you do. And it's so satisfying

to the brain. Like, oh my God, like, if it worked, right? That's how I feel when a joke is like, my brain is like, it's this. Oh, it's that. You know, like that, that is so joyful. And Tessa Coates once told me that laughter is an evolutionary response to surprise. I think sounds good and I won't look into it. So all I read is, I think you, if you've got to take people on the journey way more than you realise, basically,

because their brain needs to have all the A and the B because they're desperate then for C. Brilliant. Brilliant. And so technical and so smart. Finally. So succinct. I'm very lucky to be surrounded by, as I've said, friends who are really good comedians.

So I'm lucky in that I think I get a lot of tidbits here and there. For example, the other day, I arrived for dinner with James Acosta, and I was sort of flustered because I had a preview, I think, the next day. And I had loads of notes and stuff. And I was trying to just be like, how do I get this all together? I just feel like I don't understand what it is. And he said, you should film yourself, for example. He was like, I know you record.

I do audio recording. He was like, film your preview. You will be, it's amazing how much you're giving away or not giving away in terms of what you're doing with your face and stuff like that. And maybe also when you, for him and for him, And for me, I find that if I listen to things, I can kind of tune out. I think if you're watching something, maybe you're more engaged. So that's a sort of example of like a tidbit that I'm lucky enough to sort of scrape from the table of my friends.

Yes. But then I, you know, give them a lot of good emotional advice in advance. It's give and take. But journeyman, hand on shoulder, gazillion percent Ashling B. Ashling has been, and as you know this, if she is one of the great supporters, right? David O'Doncdy is too, so maybe it's an Irish thing. Like, they're really like, they congratulate their friends. If David is introducing you, you'd be like, this is Stuart.

He's an amazing comedian and he has the most listened to comedy podcast in the world. Like everyone is the best at what they do. And Ashening was just really good. I mean, they don't say about themselves. So humble, but other people. And Aschling was always really good at just being like, you can do a lot of things and you just need to choose one thing and work hard at it. just because you can be a good assistant or an assistant,

but like you just because you can do that stuff doesn't mean that you should spend your time doing it. Like what you actually, where do you get the joy? I mean, she didn't say it like that. But she basically was like work hard at a thing you care about rather than just being generally good at other stuff. And because she said you can do it. That's basically what she said. She was like, I'm not worried about you doing it. You just actually have to do it.

Yes. Yes. I've said that to a friend of mine recently who feels he has much more potential than he's actually doing anything with. And I was like, yes, but we all have. It's all potential. It's actually about your ability to execute on it. So stop worrying about potential and either do the thing or don't do the thing. Yeah.

And also don't worry about potential because that is stopping you. It's not that you have potential and you're not doing it. It's your obsession with potential is killing your ability to make something bad because then you can't make something good. And that is directed to you, the listener. You. Make anything. Make it bad, but then make it good. And do make sure to make it good,

because it's a lot of money to watch comedy nowadays, you know. So that was Amy Annette. Thank you to her for coming on the show. Thank you to Evil Producer Callum and indeed Susie Lewis for all of logging and assistant type duties. Amionette's show, Say What You Like About Me is at the Pleasant Dome in Edinburgh at 5.30pm from the 5th to the 30th of August. You can find out more at say it with me, amy annette.net.net.

and you can find out all about what she's doing by following her on Instagram at the Amienset. Now, I obliquely referenced the exclusive extras that you can't find anywhere else unless you join the Insiders Club on Patreon. We will talk about self-producing her first show after COVID when no one would back it. We'll find out about how people get fixated

on the wrong markers of success. That was such a good bit. We'll talk about shadow artists. And we will, that's from the artist's way, sort of concept of shadow artists. And we will find out how successful. often comes from getting out of your own way. Find out more.

It's only £3 a month at patreon.com.com. And you can find out how to see me live at Stuartgolfsmith.com slash comedy. There is just time. And no, as you can hear, I'm rattling through this. There is no time. I'm afraid today for a post-amble. I'm at London Climate Action Week,

and I am spitting around between several events. And I will say the first one of them was pretty grueling. Really terrifying and very realistic and scientifically plausible. if not likely scenario of what a weather forecast would look like for Britain in 2056. Sobering, I won't say chilling, it was the exact opposite of chilling, but thanks nonetheless. Sorry, this is, I can't segue like that, so let's take a deep breath.

Ah, climate action week, don't worry, if you're worried, get active. Come and see my show, learn about it, stop being scared about it, and don't be afraid to find out more. That's not much of a call to action, but it'll serve as a segue. The point being, I've got to race off to another thing now. So just time left to say thank you to our insider producers. That's hacker, spiller, Dave Powell, Simmons, Alan Lucas, McClellan, Swarbrick, McCarroll, Swaddle, Wormall and Burry. And a big thank you to our two special insider executive producers, Neil Rising Heat Peters, and Andrew Cool Guy Dennett, and the Super Secret one as well.

Thanks for listening. Do try to maintain a consistent sense of self and indeed get yourself somewhere cool under a nice rock or perhaps in an old marble house or a castle, maybe the cellar of a castle, that would be nice. And remember, if you're using a fan, open a window so that you're pulling in air from outside. And also, I mean, if you're in London and it's 38 this week, then don't even do that.

I think what you're supposed to do is put a cover on the outside of your windows, not the inside, maybe foil. I think there is... I'm not an expert on this bit. What I would do is recommend strategies for dealing with the increasing intense heat. I hope you're all surviving and thriving despite the heat, and I hope that you work out ways to manage it in a sensible fashion.

I've just been to a talk about this, and I feel like I should know more. I should have some things at my fingertips, but I don't. Instead, what I have at my fingertips is an increasingly hot MacBook. So I'm going to switch that off and stop using power. Maybe that's all I can help with just now. but I will speak to you next week when we are re-releasing Sashir Zamata,

who's a fantastic comic I interviewed at Montreal many years ago. That's a brilliant re-release. And she popped into my mind because I saw her doing an extremely... What's the word? Because she popped into my mind doing a really fun little role on the He Man and the Masters of the Universe movie, which, contrary to the opinion of almost everyone else I've spoken to, me and my children really enjoyed.

Speak to you soon.