The Comedian's Comedian Podcast - Aparna Nancherla (Live @ SXSW)

Episode Date: August 15, 2025

Aparna Nancherla is a self-described “silly-billy” with her dry sense of humour mixed with hints of the existential, absurd and whimsy.She’s the author of Unreliable Narrator: Me, Myself and Impostor Syndrome, and the voice behind Hollyhock on Bojack Horseman. Aparna has also appeared in A Simple Favor and Bob’s Burgers and written for Late Night with Seth Meyers and Mythic Quest. Rolling Stone named her one of “The 50 Funniest People Right Now,” and she’s even starred in a Super Bowl ad with Michael Bublé!We discuss navigating the tension between vulnerability and self-deprecation, the risk of commodifying trauma, using comedy to control the narrative around your perceived flaws, does success cure imposter syndrome and is Aparna Nancherla happy…Join the Insiders Club at patreon.com/comcompod where you can WATCH the full episode and get access to 20 minutes of exclusive extras including staring in Comedy Central's Corporate, the worst comedy advice she's ever received (it's shocking!), voice acting and navigating creative tension in a work environment.Support the Podcast from only £3/month at Patreon.com/ComComPod✅ Exclusive access to full video and ad-free audio episodes✅ 20 minutes of exclusive extra content with Aparna✅ Early access to new episodes (where possible!)✅ Exclusive membership offerings including a monthly “Stu&A”PLUS you’ll get access to the full back catalogue of extras you can find nowhere else!Catch Up with Aparna:Keep up-to-date with all things Aparna Nancherla at aparnacomedy.com, and find her on Instagram @aparnapkin.Everything Stu's up to:Come and help me figure out some NEW STUFF at the Edinburgh Fringe until the 17th August 2025. Find all the dates and more at stuartgoldsmith.com/comedy.Discover Stu’s comedy about the climate crisis, for everyone from activists to CEOs, at stuartgoldsmith.com/climate. Find everything else at stuartgoldsmith.com.See Stuart live on tour - www.stuartgoldsmith.com/comedy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Head to bluehost.com to start now. welcome to the show. I'm Stuart Goldsmith and today I am speaking to a parna nanchula who I've been trying to get onto the show for a few years ever having first caught a couple of clips of her stuff I think when she was going to be on at the Soho Theatre and we talked about it then we couldn't make the time of work and then I was very lucky at the last South by Southwest

that I attended and perhaps which I will ever attend I was very lucky to catch up with her for a live episode of this podcast at The Creek and the Cave So hello to everyone there. Hello to Rebecca and everyone and Charlie and all of the South by Southwest crew. But this is the fabulous Apana Nanchurla, a self-described silly billy.

She's an incredibly dry sense of humour and has these wonderfully wonderful layered nuanced jokes with sort of all this existential angst and absurdity and windy. She's just fantastic. She's the author of Unreliable Narrator, Me Myself and Imposter Syndrome, which I really recommend. Fantastic book.

and is the voice behind Holly Hock on Bojack Horseman. She's also, she's done loads of voices like a Simple Favour and Bob's Burgers. She's written for late night with Seth Myers and Mythic Quest. And Rolling Stone named her one of the 50est, one of the 50est. And Rolling Stone named her one of the 50 funniest people in the world right now. And I believe she's also been in a Super Bowl advert with Michael Boubley. Imagine. In the first half of this episode, Apana and I will talk about navigating the tension between vulnerability and self-deprecation.

We'll talk about the risks involved in commodifying trauma, and we'll talk about using comedy to control the narrative around your perceived flaws. You can get the full video of this great live video from South by Southwest, from the Creek and the Cave, including 20 minutes of exclusive extras, talking to a partner about starring in Comedy Central's corporate, talk about the worst comedy advice she's ever received, which is genuinely shocking. And how she learned, we'll find out how she learned to stop taking rejection. personally. All of that, plus the full-back

catalogue. You can now sync all of your Patreon goodies on Spotify, if you listen on Spotify. So head to patreon.com.com pod right now to find out more. Here is Aparna Nanchela. Apana, thank you so much for joining me. We have just met. We have just met backstage, and it was

tense. Well, this is as good as starting point as any other, because the thing that I'm so excited to talk to you about in terms of your comedy is that you do one of the things that I love to see most in comedy, which is to see someone take an apparent weakness and turn it, wield it into a strength. That's so kind, I think. Yeah, I realize as I said it, I thought, is this as complimentary as it sounds in my head? But you are such, you have such a phenomenal comedy imagination, such a way with words. And I love listening to you in all the kind of

the research that I've done, all the sets of yours that I've seen. I love listening to you navigate your anxiety, your depression, your low self-esteem, and all those things. You're just, just wonderful at it. And I'd like to begin by talking about that. I was going to say, is this just an hour of you complimenting me? But then you said low self-esteem and I said, okay, maybe this doesn't have to be the whole hour. Yeah, yeah.

So one of a good starting point then, I was thinking, is that. one of your, is that something that you recognize you do, sort of turn a weakness into a strength? I think I've always just had trouble coming to stand up with a way to be anyone other than myself. And I know that sounds a little weird because people are usually like, it takes time to figure out who you are on stage.

And I think I still had that process, but at the same time I don't think I am as good at kind of being a chameleon as some comedians where they can really inhabit maybe someone a little further from themselves off stage. Like I feel like for better or for worse I am who I am and I can't really

escape that. Okay. Yeah. Applaus of the idea of you being unable to escape something. But what we're talking about is persona, I suppose. And in comedy terms, like I often will see comedians where they either discover an honest element of themselves

or they contrive maybe a less honest element of themselves but it works for them. So there they are. It's often like in clowning terms, people would say you take, you sort of imagine all the different parts of your personality as people around a table and you just give one of them the microphone and you let them speak. In your case, that's not the case. And you feel more it's like, here's me, I'm just saying the things that I would say.

Yeah. And the ways that can sort of be a weakness is sometimes, you know, comedy is like any other job where some days you wake up and you're like, I don't know if I'm actually good at this, you know. And then I feel like sometimes I'll get on stage and that part will be louder than it needs to be. And I feel like sometimes I envy comedians where it feels like they can just get into the lane they need to when they need to.

Whereas I feel like if I do have those people sitting around the table, I am maybe giving too much of, like I'm letting them drive the conversation more than just being like, okay, here's the plan, folks. Yes. Yeah. Yes, I think something I noticed with, some comics who have those

sort of things that we're those qualities that we're talking about is sometimes they find it hard to change gear if something, if they're presented with an audience that isn't going for it. Sure, yeah. Do you struggle with that? Is that an issue?

Well, I think when an audience maybe isn't on board with me, I'll be like, well, we're both right. You don't like me and I am not translating to you and I guess we're just going to have to get through that. You know, like I feel like some comedians

they'll be like, okay, let me try and figure out what they want, which I did early on, and now I've sort of gotten to a place where I'm like, you know what, I can't, I'm not George Carlin and I'm not going to be tonight. And that's okay. Like I think that I used to see that as a weakness, and now I'm sort of like, you know, comedy is like any other art form, like not every genre is going to appeal to every person. Yes. Yeah.

Yes, this is, I remember when I started, there was a fixation. and this is maybe going back 20 years, there were a lot of comics who started with me wanted to be able to play any room. Sure. And I think I aspired to that as well. Yeah. And then after a long while,

I sort of thought, oh, but if you're like a singer and you can sing any genre of music, you're kind of a lounge singer. Sure. Like, is that a thing? Oh, I see. Yes, yes.

Yes. Not to denigrate lounge singers, but like if what you're going for is the kind of your truth and your expression, then maybe the ability to adapt that to a difficult audience or an unusual audience, there's a sort of almost like a spectrum

whereby at one side there's you can play anywhere and the other side you can only play your crowd like at the extremes, but you aren't giving them what you want to rather than what you think they're like. Yeah, so I think you have to decide kind of your priority of where you want to be on the spectrum because you could be like,

I want to just be able to play to more broad audiences and that is a priority versus this is a stuff. that excites me to talk about and not everyone's going to meet me there. And is that okay? Yes. Yeah. So you said before that you were in the early days you kind of, you didn't feel that so much. Yeah, because I do think like you're saying when you start, it is very much. And I don't know if this is just a product of the moment I came up in, but it was like you need to be able to play any room. But also when you're starting, you're figuring out who you are on stage or just how you move, how you deliver jokes. And so I think it is good at the to kind of play a variety of rooms just to kind of see how they feel to you and like how

you react in different spaces like simply as a learning exercise and it may be later you're not like oh these rooms that I always bombed in like I need to crack them like maybe that doesn't isn't as exciting to you anymore but I do think when you start it's worth putting yourself maybe in places you don't know if you would do well yes yeah and in terms of like the not just the rooms, but the you that you were giving them, the version of yourself, were you experimenting with different versions of yourself? I think you're kind of finding the edges of your persona. You know, you're kind of finding, like, how much am I going to lean into what you want for me versus what I want to give you and where are we meeting in the middle? And I feel like different

rooms, you kind of have different shapes in to some degree. Yeah. And do you remember an early, kind of a career early experience where it clicked for the first time. Oh, I immediately thought of a not click. You thought the question was going to be, do you remember an early terrible experience where that didn't work at all? Because we could do those questions as well.

I'm super interested in that. I mean, what I find interesting is when you see a room of people and you're like, these people, I have nothing, they have nothing they want to hear from me. Like, they're going to be upset when I come out. And then they like you, or you know, they laugh at places you didn't even expect them to laugh that is that is always i find that so

joyful because it's like oh i can be wrong too you know like yeah like their expectations can be wrong but so can mine yes yeah so was there was there like a particular joke or a particular approach or a story that you felt oh hang on this is this is clicked this is me giving myself permission to do exactly what i want well even you talking about kind of leaning more into like, you know, mental demons and low self-esteem. Like, I don't think I went into comedy knowingly saying, oh, these are the things I want to talk about. But I think over time, I maybe leaned into them more.

And only because I felt like when I did that, audiences would surprisingly open up more in ways that I had not expected versus just when I started being like, okay, how do I write a funny joke? And what are just, what is joke structure? and how can I kind of write more of these. I didn't really think about, like, persona as much. Yeah.

Yeah. It's extraordinary. It's sort of in some ways it reminds me of like a martial art, whereby it's the power of vulnerability. But how hard is that to actually go, okay, I'm going to put my sword down and stand here when actually you feel like there's an aggressor? Yes, yes, yes.

And also with comedy, it's like I still feel like I have kind of a nervous energy on stage where I get very afraid of. of like, you know, dead air or just like too much time without a laugh. And I know there are comedians where they can really sit in the silence longer and kind of make you wait for it. And I think that's always something I want to work more towards. It's like being okay with kind of having a longer buildup to a payoff. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. A joke of yours, I don't know how old it is, but a joke of yours that I think embodies a particular quality of yours that I really love is when you talk about realizing, that your energy is kind of, I don't want to butcher the time, you know, the phrasing of the joke,

but it's along the lines of realizing that your energy is, are you my mother? And I just think that's so wonderful because like, oh, that is your energy and that has a kind of resonance. And I'm like, oh, and here's you owning this thing. Right, right, right. Was that a kind of an early,

I'm sort of interested, really, just to push you on, like, what was the first joke where you thought, oh, this is saying that version of me that has a truth to? it. That's a good question. That one might be an early, because that one is kind of older, so that one might be close to it. I think, I mean, there was a line I used very early on, which was like when I would come out, I would be like, don't worry, I'm surprised. I'm a comedian too, you know, which would sort of, you know, disarm the audience, but also give me kind of a way to be like,

I know, I also don't seem like I fit in here. And I think later I was like, oh, are you kind of throwing yourself under the bus too much as an out. But I don't know, I kind of liked it because I felt like it was a way for me to just be like, let's address that right away so we can move on. And I don't have to kind of belabor it. Is that, I feel really interested by that idea of being vulnerable without throwing yourself under the bus. Yeah. Can you talk just a bit more about that, about the tension between those two? Yeah, because I do think sometimes when you are overly self-deprecating people, like I will have audiences where they're like, oh, you know, or like, oh, and you're like, that's not the right noise, is it?

You're like, oh, no, I, yeah, though I think that would be very funny if there was an art form where you were just going for, oh, yeah, stand up pity, pity clubs, yeah, I think it's funny when people think that because I think they think especially because you know I'm kind of a small person kind of you know it's kind of soft spoken so I think they're like oh god she's like crumbling in front of us or something but yeah I always think it's kind of funny to own your your weaknesses because I just feel like if you know your weaknesses so intimately like that I don't know for me that's like what is as someone who like struggles constantly with just like existential questions of like

why am I here? I just feel like I do end up spending a lot of time with my demons, so I'm like, that's kind of the people I talk to the most, so that is kind of where I'm going to find my jokes. The demons are the people you talk to the most. I mean, I think I read that

in like a self-help book. It was like have tea with your demons. Yeah. Like instead of being like, oh no, I'm anxious like and fight it, fight it, fight it. Like kind of being like, Okay, and why are you upset? You know,

therapizing yourself a little bit, yeah. Yes, there's another wonderful line of yours about having such anxiety when you communicate with people that even with a baby, you're thinking, am I an interesting enough shape and color? Oh, my God. Like, I love it's just. Baby, I mean, babies are the worst because they can't even tell you why you're not, like, exciting to them.

It's either a yes or a no, you know, it's like the voice. It's like, thumbs up, thumbs down. Yeah. So how did you start doing stand-up comedy? Because I think there'll be people listening to this who are maybe in this room as well, who maybe are aspiring comics or think that maybe they could be,

but they're too, you know, they have similar sort of aspects of their personality, like a worry about their, you know, about their self-esteem or their anxiety. Oh, that's not for me. Yeah. You know, it's so, one of the things, it's so exciting in an industry filled with kind of bombast

to see people be kind of exquisitely week that's so funny and I do like I do get emails frequently from you know younger newer comedians where they're like you you made me realize I could do

it too you know and which is very sweet but I think they kind of mean like yeah you're weak and I am weak but that's good week people I'm a week is an awful word I apologize for realizing you know just not like not the

the confidence sort of, you know. Yes, it's easy to look at stand-up and go, oh, this is entirely the purview of people who have lots of natural confidence and believe in themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it isn't, is it? It's for everyone.

Right. Yeah, so I think I already forgot the question. I don't know if I'm going to be able to help with that. Does anyone remember the question? I'm like... How did I get interesting? Was it as easy as that, that neither of us could remember. How did you get into stand-up?

It was. I think it was exactly that. It was exactly that. How did you get into stand-up, brackets, you a weak person. You're right. That was the full question. I, you know, came up in pre- YouTube.

I think MySpace was the biggest platform when I was starting. And so I didn't really have a model of like, anyone can do comedy. You know, like I feel like now the accessibility of being a comedian or putting out funny stuff is kind of open to everyone. Like, I feel you don't even need to be human.

You could be an animal with a brand or, you know, a robot at this point, or AI. But, yeah, when I started, I didn't, like, I didn't even know stand-up or, like, comedy was, like, a world that was accessible to anyone. Like, I sort of thought it was, like, the circus. Like, I thought you had to be born into, like, a family of comedians or... So, I, like, I didn't even grow up watching... stand up, maybe I'd seen a little late night and Saturday Night Live, but in high school I just had like a friend who was really into comedy and he kind of started, you know, he gave me like a Mitch Hedberg album.

He gave me, I think, a Jim Gaffigan album and I was like, oh, this is really cool. And like I didn't even know you could do this as a thing. And so I think maybe when I was home from college during the summer, he was like, I'm going to do an open mic. like, you should come with me. We should both try it before the end of the summer. And that was kind of how I decided to do it, just on a whim, not really knowing.

I've always been a big writer, so I kind of had these journals full of little ideas. So I was like, let me just try to make these into funny little speeches. And, yeah, I did it. I had three minutes, and I remember I went up on my 20th birthday. And I definitely said it's my birthday, please laugh. leaned into my weakness and yeah it went well it went well enough that I think I was sort of like oh my gosh I didn't even fathom that this would go okay

and I think that opened up the possibility of doing it but as an anxious person of course I was going to try to ride that high as long as possible so then I didn't do it again for like four years that's quite unusual I think to have a positive experience and then be like, okay, that's me. I'm retiring undefeated. Well, you know, I was kind of like, can I repeat that? Yeah.

Do we want to preserve that memory? That's an interesting imposter syndrome thing, isn't it? Yeah. I'm like, oh, I did it. I achieved this. I'll probably never be able to do that again because of all the evidence. Yeah, well, also you hear, like, I've read so many interviews with comedians where they're like, yeah, the first few times went great and then I, like, bombed for two years straight.

Sure. Yeah. Yes. And, I mean, I think that is quite a common thing, is that you just need one early, in the first three, gigs you've got to have one banger and then you go this this must be possible and it sustains you for even now I'm like yeah yeah that best western yeah sustained me and I think another thing is quite unusual about that is oh I'll get up on stage and do three minutes and I'll source it from my extensive journals of observations and notes and things I know I know yeah what were you

writing not what were you writing for but with what in mind were you writing? when you're writing journal. Was it just for you? Well, when I grew up, I was like a really shy, introverted kid. So my mom actually put my sibling and I in public speaking classes as, as... Punishment. Well, she was like, you know, this is a valuable soft skill and you can never learn too soon. So it was just like, you know, we were 11 and 13 in this room full of adults who were there,

I guess as a work thing, and we would give our little three-minute speeches every week on like a hobby I like or whatever. But I think that's what kind of taught me how to speak in front of a room. That is an extraordinary beginning as a stand-up, both in terms of the skills it gives you and presumably the trauma it inflicted.

I don't know, though, because I think as a shy kid, I actually found it so much more nerve-wracking to talk like one on one with a stranger, like at a party or something and try to think of what exactly to say. But then when I took this speech class, it was sort of like you make a list of points. You have a beginning and a conclusion. You kind of use some hand gestures. You scan the room. And I was like, oh my God, this is the guide. It's so much more structured than regular socializing. I found it actually very much more manageable.

Oh, yeah, okay. That's really interesting. The idea of actually being confidently told by a professional coach, the structure of how to speak to people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a thing no one would really think to do. But also the rules when you're speaking to a group are so much more defined than like just an impromptu social interaction.

I mean, there's rules to talking to people at a party, but people are just wildly breaking them left and right. And so was it, I mean, I think the initial question was about the journaling. And the intention behind it, was it, were you writing for that class? Well, I think, well, then I think when I was shaping this stand-up act, I was sort of trying to shape it into little monologues. Okay. Like the different bits were kind of little speeches.

Yeah, where it'd be like an in and then an out and then into the next thing. And where did that notion come from, like an in and an out and making a little speech? Is that a particular? Like from the class. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. So you did get given kind of.

of structural advice on stand-up effectively. Or you interpreted it as useful advice on standard. Yeah, I mean, I was like, they are just like little monologues, if you think about it, like bits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what did the, when you, so you did that, you wrote some stuff, had a good gig, and then had four years. I mean, I was still in college at the time, so I think I did maybe one or two student

coffee houses very loose, not really putting a lot of effort into it. But then once I graduated, I moved back. in with my parents. I was living in D.C. at the time, and I just really, you know, was like, if you're going to try this, you have to make more of an effort. And so I just started doing, you know, open mics around the city. And D.C. has a pretty active comedy scene. And so there was like plenty of stage time. I think it was a good place to start because you're just, there's less like industry scrutiny so you can kind of, you know, take more chances. And there were a lot of DIY rooms and shows that people are putting together. So I think,

that was a really great scene to come up in. Tell me about the writing process at that time, your writing process, because your writing is so sort of elegant and condensed, and you're so good at kind of at like saying everything about a

subject in as few words as possible. Yeah, I mean, I think I have always had a very tormented approach to writing. This is what we want to hear. Lovely. Where I will have an idea just occur to me so I'll write it down sometimes for me with the wording it'll literally be like

I'll just a phrase will occur to me and I'll really like the phrase and then I'll just build a bit around the phrase so sometimes it's just like the wording itself is leading the bit versus like oh I have a premise and let me try to write around the premise like sometimes it just happens in sideways for me can you give us an example of that let me let me see trying to think of a well like the are you my mother joke yeah like i think i thought of the are you my mother before i thought of oh i see yeah yeah yeah so it's sort of reverse so you were light on something and think oh were you thinking like that could be me or that could express a thing i want to express i think it's a funny turn of phrase and i'll yeah yeah like i think it was literally a book

a children's book i saw in like a bookstore window and i was like that's kind of funny and it was like a little duckling like kind of being like oh and then I was like I think I'm familiar with that book yeah and I was like oh my god that's my vibe and is that is it is it often that way around have you ever sat down and thought and presumably having kind of writers rooms or for late night or something where you've thought okay this is the brief or even just for your own stand-up have you thought like I want to talk about this you know have you ever started the other way around Yeah, I think to your point about talking about anxiety

and depression, I think those came from I was really struggling with anxiety and depression at the time when I started writing about them and I think they were taking up so much room in my brain that I didn't really, it felt like nothing else was really inspiring me as material. So I think I started writing about those things just by virtue of the fact that I was,

they were dominating my life at the time and I think that was weirdly helpful in that it was forcing me to kind of look at them from all angles and find like the parts that could be made into bits. Okay, that's it, so weirdly helpful because one thing I wanted to ask you was about whether there are any,

as someone who, I think a lot of comics have suffered with mental health problems, my feeling is that almost all people do, it's just that comics are allowed to talk about it on stage. I don't necessarily subscribe to the kind of comics are all secretly depressed theory. But for those of us that wear it on our sleeve a bit more, obviously,

I was wondering, are there any creative benefits to depression, or is it all, you know, is it all just terrible? Like, I often sort of thought, I think in my, I'm a sort of chronic anxiety sufferer, and I've often thought to myself, like if there was a choice, like a blue pill and a red pill, for you can either get rid of all the anxiety

or have all the success that the anxiety may drive you towards? Like, which one would I do? Oh, wow. You know, would it be better to be terribly unsuccessful, like as unsuccessful as one might secretly fear one is, and yet happy? Right. What would the trade-off be?

Would that be worth it? But maybe without the, maybe the anxiety is also driving the, like, importance of being successful, right? So without that, you would be happy and not stress. Yes. Yeah. How do you feel? What's your thing?

take on... I mean, I would say you were asking, like, what is a positive side of depression? You get a lot of downtime. It is a lot of time to sit around and think. Okay.

Because he ain't really doing anything else. Sure. Yeah. And is that... Because I know in the brief periods of depression I've had, I wouldn't have really wanted to think in a creative way. Sure. I'd have wanted to sort of avoid

everything. I'd have felt like, oh, no. now like this would be a perfect time for me to do some work trying to describe the funniness of this and I can't which means I'm even more of a piece of shit well the interesting thing to me with I'm sorry I just got a pity R from someone in the audience yeah I think I don't know for me I've always felt like comedy and sadness and even anxiety are kind of two sides of the same coin where it's like like when I'm really depressed or anxious. I'm sort of like, you know, why am I even here? What am I doing? And then that is essentially stand-up too, where you're essentially asking, why are we all here? What are we doing? Why do

we do things this way? Like what, like it is, they're both kind of micro-analyzing. One is very self-directed. Like anxiety and depression is, you know, like I'm, yeah, like I'm a piece of shit. Why am I so bad at everything? But I feel like stand-up is sort of inflicting that on the world more, or even maybe on yourself. So I think, I don't know, for me, it's kind of using the same conduits in the brain, and one of them goes in a more just self-defeating flat line direction. And then the other one's like, okay,

but like if I'm kind of trying to explain this to another person of like what's going on in my head, how would I do that and do it in a way where they're not immediately going to walk away and be like, you know what, this is kind of a bummer. I'm going to go watch Real Housewives. Sure. Yeah.

I was thinking about the kind of the hustle necessary to become a comedian and the drive required and the literal driving and, you know, the traveling and all of those things. How did those sit with periods of depression? Not great. I feel like there was a period where I was, quote-unquote, like my career was going well and things were really picking up. And this was like, you know, a number of years after I kind of started talking more about mental health in my act. And it felt like things imploded a little bit where it was almost like I was being rewarded for being really vulnerable on stage. But then those same demons were making it really hard to show up to do stand up. Whereas like as I was talking about anxiety and depression on stage, my anxiety and depression were getting worse off stage. And I was like, you know, canceling shows and not able to get.

get through the day. So I think I really had to reckon with, like, do you have to create boundaries just to self-preserve versus just turning everything into material and then thinking, I'm a robot and I can just show up and deliver these jokes with no impact as a human. Yeah.

Yeah, especially if the comedy world is saying, hey, we really like it when you kind of eviscerate yourself in front of us. Yeah, and I almost feel like that's been a trend that stand-up has taken or, you know, even like hour-long shows where it's not, It's sort of like a vulnerability contest of like how real can, how real could he get? He was sitting the whole time and he didn't even want laughs. You know, like I just feel like it's kind of turned into, in some regards,

a pissing contest of like, you know, and, you know, that's any cultural trend. We go in different waves of things. But it is funny to me that it's sort of like we pick a thing and then we run it into the ground a little bit. It's extraordinary that. I see that a lot at the Edinburgh Festival, whereby there's just so many like 3,000 comedy shows in town that every year it seems certain newspapers or journalists will get together and go, we've identified the theme of this year's festival.

So it's this, it's about this. And then often I'm at the festival thinking, well, that's one of the themes. I think you're really just going for copy. And the other thing is, if people do often do, like one of the running jokes of the Edinburgh Festival, I don't know if it applies here in the US, is that people do comics do shows about their dead dads. It's like, oh, it's a dead dad show. You're enjoying the show, and then 40 minutes of the way through,

their dad dies. And it turns out, is that, are people familiar with that? Do you get, no, that's a thing. Get yourselves to Edinburgh, it's a lot of fun. But I think those sort of tropes, I think they're not necessarily negative because actually what's happening is comics are inspiring other comics by going, you know, the origins maybe of that pissing contest are in comics going, oh wow, I can be that vulnerable.

Yes. But then it does, it just becomes a little bit laughable when there's 40 people doing. Oh, yeah, because I remember, you know, there was a point where I was really into Twitter and would, you know, tweet a lot about mental health jokes. And I remember, you know, going in spirals where I was just like, her depression jokes are better than mine.

You know, like, you know, she has a suicide hotline joke and I haven't called them and what does that say about me? You know, like, I just feel like you can really go off the rails, even with being real, quote-unquote, real, yeah. That's hard. I remember right, the second show I ever wrote was called Another Lovely Crisis, and it was all about my anxiety.

And it was almost impossible to write because I would sit down and go, let's focus on all the times I've been anxious and then I'd end up really anxious and unable to write anything. So I think that's part of what impresses me so much about your ability to go that bit and that concept and I am safe.

and preserved from that, and there are boundaries. I mean, I also think, like, just what you're saying about anxiety, it is so messy, and it isn't, like, something you can neatly package into, like, a neat setup and punchline. So I think I was also noticing, like, when you write a joke, it's so clean, there's, like, an in and an out, and it's like, here's what I want you guys to take away from this, and mental health is not like that at all. So I think it was also finding a way to package it that also made it feel a little

bit like I had a sense of control over it, since it's something that really is outside of your control so much of the time. Yes, that's what, there's a famous quote, isn't there, about comedy being an attempt to, comedy often being an attempt to control the way in which people laugh at you.

Yes. And I think that's, there's probably a parallel there with your comedy being an attempt to control the way in which you get to navigate those elements of your psyche. Yeah. Because I think often I feel like my brain makes it hard to show up to my life.

So I think it was like finding a way to be like, which, how can I take these parts of my brain and force them to show up on my terms? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's a beautiful way of thinking about it. Did you ever, did you ever, I know you've talked about therapy on stage?

Have you ever had that moment, I think probably a lot of therapeutized, is that a word, comics who've undergone therapy have had of going, oh, if I get happy, will I still be able to do the job? Yeah. I don't know because I think I actually when I first started stand-up, but I think one thing I left out was I had been coming out of a very depressive patch

that I was struggling with in college where I had an eating disorder. I had to take time off of school and I was put on antidepressants for the first time. And I think this is a common experience with people go on SSRIs for maybe the first time in their life. but everything suddenly, you know, was like in color to me. It was almost like I had experienced the world in black and white and suddenly I was like seeing colors and I was like, wow, is this what everyone else is feeling all the time? And I think it just gave me this like,

there's always an initial honeymoon period with these drugs where I felt this boost of sort of like, oh my gosh, now I can really live. And I think that is also kind of what helped me give me the confidence to try stand up for the first time because I don't know if without that, I would have been like, this is really something I can go for. Raise your hand if you want your nails to look perfect all the time. Me too.

I'm Sarah Gibson-Tuttle from Olive and June and this is exactly why we created the manny system. We wanted to make it possible for everyone everywhere to give themselves a beautiful manicure at home. With our tools and our long-lasting polish, each manicure with our manicure with our manning system comes out to just $2. That's right, $2. No more $30, $50 manis that you get at a salon and they take hours. Now you can paint your nails on your time and love them more than ever. And by the way, when people ask, who did your nails? Where did you get them done? You're going to proudly say, I did them myself. Get 20% off your first manny system with code perfect manny 20 at olive and June.com slash perfect manny 20. That's code perfect manny 20 for 20% off at olive and june.com

slash perfect manny 20. Did I talk too much? Why can't I just let it go? I should stop. We're thinking so much. Thank you so much. Take a breath. You're not alone. Counseling helps you sort through the noise with qualified professionals. Get matched with a therapist online based on your unique needs and get help with everyday struggles like anxiety or managing tough emotions. Visit betterhelp.com slash random podcast. for 10% off your first month of online therapy and let life feel better. So this is Aparna and you can find out all about her at Aparnacomedy.com.

You can find her on Instagram at Aparna napkin. No, Aparnaapkin. Apar napkin. Yep, that's right. So that's where you can find her. I myself can be found at the fringe from right now through to the 17th of August doing an inconvenient time. Comedy 1105. Get yourself a lovely ticket in advance. Those advanced sales really keep me going because there is literally zero-flying time available. Find out more about that at Stuart Goldsmith.com

slash comedy. I'm very excited about the show. I am recording this. I'm pre-recording this. So I can only assume that it's going as well as I hope, but let's assume it is. And if it isn't, I need your support. And if it is, come bask in my magnificence. Coming up in the second half, we're going to talk about whether success can cure imposter syndrome. We will talk about how writing a joke-free comedy book nearly broke her, and we will also find out, of course, whether she's happy. Place your bets. Place your bets, he said, as the noise of a child's thundering feet ran past on top of the, let's say, studio. Your book, Me, Myself, an Imposter Syndrome, is excellent.

and incredibly readable and incredibly sort of, I've only read sort of a couple of chapters from it so far, but I'm really looking forward to finishing it because you talk so candidly and it's so joke-dense as well. Oh, thanks. I mean, it really, like, I remember like three sentences. I was like, God, there's been six jokes in the opening three sentences.

But tell us about the writing of the book. And I know I heard your comedy bang bang saying to Scott Ockerman that you had to record the audio book of this incredibly sort of intimate memoir in front of some sound recording people you'd never met. So I would like to hear about that as well, because that sounds awful. Yeah, I mean, so the book, yeah, Unreliable Narrator, Me, Myself, an Imposter Syndrome. It came out of just my, the time I was talking about before, where it was like my career

was going well, but then I felt like I was doing worse and worse. And I think that contradiction was really kind of stifling me because I was like, well, I'm getting all the things that I couldn't even have dreamed of and I'm, you know, hitting all these marks and, but I feel like I'm doing worse and worse as a person and like, how do I negotiate that sort of weird juxtaposition? And I, so I decided to write a book just about self-doubt because I think it's something that's plagued me in kind of every area of my life. And I wouldn't recommend writing a book about self-doubt. Turns out you, you, it's hard.

It's hard to sit down and say, you know what, I'm really good at not being good. Yeah, but I don't know. I think I wanted to also explore a form where I didn't have to make everything into a joke and sort of could go a little bit more into the darker, more vulnerable places without a punchline. But it was hard.

I mean, when I started it, it was 2019. So it was going into the pandemic, and then I wrote most of it over the pandemic. And, you know, it gave me a lot of time to write, but I wouldn't say we were all in the best head space in that time. If that's not a controversial thing to say. And did it on finishing it, on completing the book, what did that feel like?

I have not completed writing a book. I would imagine, particularly given the subject matter, I don't know, but I suppose my assumption is, do you feel like you kind of conquered it somehow or some aspect of it? No, I wish I could say, you know, and now I'm not an imposter. Like, I, I, because that's what,

that would be the question I would get most in interviews when I was talking about it, you know, like, what did you learn and like, are you better now? But I think the book itself kind of wrestles with the fact that even on things, like, I think there's a chapter on body image, but just how we never really land in a place, as a human. Like there's always like I think societally we want the arc of success where it's like

I was down here and now I'm up here or like vice versa. I went through a period of success and now I'm wrestling with that. But I just feel like as humans it's much more like blips like of peaks and valleys just over the course of a life. And I think that's kind of more what I wanted to sit with is like we we never cleanly land in a place and stay there as humans it's like I'm okay with my body and I was in this period and now I'm wrestling with this thing and just like how messy we all are and the fact that it's more the messiness that you eventually make peace with than like that you are enlightened in in everything given that conclusion like is there is there an element to which you recognise that you can't be an imposter

because you're incredibly good at articulating things and do you know I mean like I know that imposter syndrome isn't necessarily vulnerable to you know it's not healable through facts often it's the dismissal of facts you know but between the kind of the facts of your successful career the laughs you get whenever you go on stage and the fact that you can articulate it and go I understand what this is and we don't ever you know

as you said we don't ever kind of come to that plays. Yeah. Is there any aspect to which you're able to defer the imposter syndrome or control it or navigate it in a more useful way from time to time? Yeah. I mean, I do think I've come to a place where I have accepted that I am a comedian. Growth, growth, ladies and gentlefolk. I mean, when I started, I feel like there were these whole discussions. in like the comedy scene of like when is when are you allowed to like legitimate at least call yourself a comedian like among the open micers so I'm just like I think I'm ready now how far into your career was this 13 years okay good that's it's an important moment that might

come late but it's a that is an important realization isn't it to go I'm okay I am the thing now yes yes but but I think I think for me what it's been more is just accepting what we were talking about earlier where it's like I might not ever be yeah the type of comedian who's like really confident and like playing huge huge theaters and like sort of everyone's like this person

is just so funny in every way like I don't feel like I will necessarily ever be that comedian but then I think for me acceptance has been being like and that's okay like you don't have to be like there's no

there's no law that's like that is the only mark of a true comedian, like reaching some sort of stratospheric pinnacle of success. Like I was only, I was doing like a local show in LA recently and I was just kind of marveling at like how I see these younger comedians and you know they might not, you know, have any like a TV credit yet. They might not have, you know, done anything except like done open mics and then done some shows and just kind of marveling at like their bits and like how excited they are to write them and just like hearing a young comedian's bit is sometimes you're like oh this is like the good part like you're just doing it for the joy of doing it you don't have

some sort of like expectation or income you're meeting like you're just like literally passionate about writing a stand-up bit and you're writing it and you can see the joy in it and I think that that is what feels important that's very beautiful I thought I thought you'd probably clap. If you think about the steps along the way that got you to, just that realization, I am the thing now. I can accept that I'm the thing now.

Which is, as I say, I think that is an important, that's an important moment in the stage of every comic's life. And maybe some people get it in the first five gigs and are just absurd. I think of them as door kickers. You know, people who are just happy to kick the door down and go, I'm a star. Where's my limit?

Oh my gosh. I remember there was a guy in D.C. where I think he hadn't even been doing it a year, and he had T-shirts. And I was like, if I just had a little bit of that confidence. I remember 30 years ago, I was a street performer, and one of my street-performing friends had their own website. And I was like, oh, fuck off. Come on. Yeah, isn't that against what a street performer does? I think they were after bookings, but I believe they had merch as well.

But, yeah, arguably, yeah. We won't go into this thing. This comes up on the show a lot. Oh, is that one, that's the listener at the back there. Yes, it does. We won't dwell on that. But in terms of those kind of the waypoints, the steps are on the way to get you to the stage of thinking,

I am now the thing and I accept that I am a comedian now, is there any way that you could, you know, were you able to hypothetically travel back in time and talk to young Apana? Is there any way that message could be, that journey could be, be sped up? Is there something, is there a way that you could have convinced yourself of that? That's a, yeah. I mean, I've thought about that and I just think me as a person, like I just

take longer to come to, like pretty much anything in my life, it takes me longer to do than someone else. Like, I think that's just another part of my brain that I struggle with where it's like, you know, if I'm trying to do a task, it just seems to take three times as long as the next person so I think I do I think that's because you're honest and they lie about how much time it took I mean there are those people right who do like seven things in a day and you're like I guess some of us just are built more in line with capitalism yeah um but yeah I I think so for me I am sort of like I think part of my deal is I take my time and I think so for me I'm like yeah I probably would have help to get to these things sooner, but I think I'm about the long, the scenic route.

There's an opportunity for questions from the audience. You can have a moment to think about those questions from the audience, or you can just put your hand up and ask one. But I have additional things here. I wrote down, this isn't a question. This is a note about one of your jokes. Being cat called is weird. I've barely just developed the script for when people I know were like hey a partner how's it going this I think what I love about that is I mean I think that is a good example of that thing we've been talking about taking the idea of like the idea like which way around do you remember which way around that joke came like taking the idea of cat called and applying it to your euness or coming up with thinking like maybe like the other way around to

come at it would be that an audience you know a friend might say how's it going you find yourself unable to answer and going, yeah. Probably that way, which way? I think probably the latter. Okay. Yeah, where I am already kind of short for words. So it's like, why are you making the stakes even higher? Oh, gotcha.

Yeah. Do you have any kind of processes that you will apply to an idea? Like in terms of the writing technique, have you got any kind of shareable processes or methods? that you find yourself relying on? I definitely overwrite. Like, for me, the idea kind of drives everything where I'm constantly jotting down notes either in a little notebook or iPhone

or I'll do a voice note to myself sometimes. And then I'll write down that initial nugget of an idea and then I'll usually override around it where I'll kind of stream of consciousness write kind of a long thing about what I think is funny. And then I'll, because I tend to just overwrite in general, and then I'll kind of pull out the parts that I like and kind of try to make those into more concise punchlines.

Yeah, yeah. That does sound quite methodical. It is and it isn't, because the times I can get myself to sit down and do that part are rare. Okay, okay. So a lot of it is just the initial, but a sporadic work ethic.

Yes, yes. Okay. I have very erratic processes. Even the book, like when people are like, How did you write it? I don't know. Like, I feel like, I feel like I kind of black out sometimes when I actually do the work. Oh, you mean like you sort of enter a fugue state?

Yes, yes. And then emerge from the work. Yeah. That sounds great. I'd have to get that in pill form. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, I think I struggle so much when I'm writing sometimes that my brain kind of blocks it out like childbirth. It's like if you ever want to do that again, you're going to have.

to not remember how much you hated it. Yes. Yeah. Yes, my friend Pete described the first few years of parenthood as being like the CCTV in a service station. It just deletes itself every 24 hours so that the memories don't obstruct the desire to do it again. What is, this is an oddly phrased question, take it as you find it, what is especially you-ish? Oh.

Hmm. What is especially me is? I think dreading most things until I'm doing them. Yeah. Is that fixable? You know we were talking earlier on about my, like I get real anxiety before recording these podcasts on my show, which is insane.

But I really, you know, I get worked up about it. And I've never through, like I've talked about it in therapy. and I've kind of like thought through thought experiments and schema about ways to think about it, never managed to fix it. So are there, have you managed to fix any of those dread moments like dreading things till they happen? I think there are times I don't have as much dread and I do not know why sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not, but now, you know, it's kind of like the dread is part

of it sometimes. Like I know it's coming and I sort of am like, okay, but once you're in it, you'll be, be you'll be I actually have a ring I wear that says well it's like an acronym but it's you will feel different after you start which is just it's just a reminder that it's like how you feel right now is not going to be how you feel when you do it and that can be so hard to believe but yeah I can't I think that's a lovely idea I'm really pleased that works for you I worry that for me like I'm like this that's good I don't think that would fix me I don't you I don't you I know that it would feel different.

I'm not saying it's fixed anything. I bought a ring. That's what happened. Fix someone's ring business. But I think that I continually think probably in quite a restless kind of way. Like this must be fixable. I can't be expected. You know, I'm familiar with that idea of like you need to accept it.

You need to let it. That's how it's going to be. But I'm like, no, there must be a solution. There must be a way of thinking about this that means I don't have to spend the day keyed up or dreading or anxious before, you know, an important thing. Well, you know, there's an entire industry built around you curing your anxiety. Yes, and so far, it hasn't worked.

Last question, and given the context of the interview so far, I promise I ask this. Of everyone, are you happy? Am I happy? I think I am okay. I am okay. I'm okay with the ups and downs. And I think I am, yeah, I think I like just saying, like, I think I am okay feels like a grounding thing versus like, am I making the most of all of this. So, I mean, I am okay.

Maybe that feels like it's happy in its own way. But yeah, I think I'm all of it. I'm happy. I'm sad, but I'm okay. Did I talk too much? Why can't I just let it go? I was thinking so much. Take a breath.

You're not alone. Counseling helps you sort through the noise with qualified professionals. Get matched with a therapist online based on your unique needs. And get help with everyday struggles like anxiety or managing tough emotions. Visit betterhelp.com slash random podcast for 10% off your first month of online therapy and let life feel better. Hi, who here loves when their nails are perfectly done? Me, I'm Sarah Gibson Tuttle and I started all of in June because let's be real, we all

deserve to have gorgeous nails, but who wants to spend a fortune or half their day at the salon? And that's why I created the manny system, so you can have that salon perfect manicure right at home. And guess what? The best part, each manny only costs $2. Yep, you heard me, $2. No more 30, 40, $50 salon trips that eat up your day.

Now you can paint your nails whenever you want, wherever you want, and trust me, you're going to be obsessed with your nails and everyone is going to ask you, where did you get your nails done? And here's a little something extra. Head over to olive and june.com and get 20% off your first mani system with code perfect manny 20 at olive and june.com slash perfect manny 20. That's code perfect manny 20 for 20% off at olive and june.com slash perfect manny 20.

You're all set for a nail glow up. Let's get those nails looking fabulous, shall we? So that was a par, and Nancella, thank you so much to her. Thanks once again to Charlie Satello at formerly of South by Southwest for sorting that out. Thank you as well to Rebecca Trent and everyone at the Creek in the Cave, the technical crew and everyone else. The logging was by, oh, I'm going into this quite soon, aren't I? But let's do it this way around. The logging was by Susie Lewis and Evil Producer Callum co-produces the show.

So you can keep up to date with all things related to Aparna Nanchula. You can follow her on Instagram at Apar Napkin and find her website apanacomedy.com. It's a good website, actually, I remember. It's very visually pleasing. You can join the Insiders Club on Patreon where you can get all of the Bumpf. When you think of bump, what do you think of?

Do you think of ad-free audio episodes? Full video episodes? Extra content? Do you think of exclusive membership offerings, including a monthly stew and A? Well, you should, because those all things all combine to create bump. And all of that bump can be found. Who was the first person to use the word bump?

It's a good word, isn't it? Find out, oh, Christ on my mind is falling apart, but you can find out more and help your mind not fall apart at patreon.com slash bump. That's not right. It's patreon.com slash comcom pod. I'm at the fringe now. I'm not now.

Now I'm recording this in advance of the fringe, but now when you're hearing it, I am. That is just the magic of linear time. From now to the 17th of August, the show is called an inconvenient time. Please do come and see it. I'm working my guts out on it to try and find ways to make people feel... Well, let's just analyse the... What's the message?

I was going to say to make people feel brilliant about the climate crisis. Obviously, it isn't that. That is impossible. But you can feel hopeful and urgent and activated in the face of something really, really scary and awful and doom-laden. and my thesis, if you will, is that just because a bad thing is happening, we shouldn't feel frozen and inert and paralysed with fear and sort of terrified. Instead, we should attack it head on and know that we will be okay one way or another

if we pull together and hope and believe. And I've managed to make that funny. I just, I'm not quite, I'm not that good at saying it socially just yet. I may or may not include in the show a story about saying the wrong thing to a friend of mine who then had a bit of a funny turn because I was being a bit too glib about something scary and in many ways the show is about at the moment that the show is about me sort of learning to do that better. So what I mean is if that appeals to you, if you think, God, I'd like to feel like that about the climate crisis, that might be better than how I currently feel about

it and then maybe this is the show for you. Brackets, loads and loads and loads of great jokes also. Thank you to our insider producers. I Cave Dave, Rob Farley, Roger Spiller, Daniel Power, Keith Simmons, Sam Allen, Jay Lucas, Gary McLend, Chris Swarbe, David McCarroll, Paul Swaddle, Alex Wormel, James Burry and Mike Sheldon, and also two special insider executive producers, Neil one deep breath, Peters, and Andrew, one long, cool, sigh, Denant, and the super secret one as well. Thank you so much. That is all for now, no post-amble. We're all in a hurry. Have a great summer. If you are not already having a great summer, I hope it picks up. And if you're having a great one, I hope it continues. Speak to you soon. You can fly anywhere in the world and pay discount prices on your airline tickets. Book a flight today to London, Paris, Madrid, or anywhere else you want to go.

And pay a lot less guaranteed. Call the International Travel Department right now at low-cost airlines. 800-215-1-41. 800-215-1-41. That's 800-215-51-41. Thank you.