The Comedian's Comedian Podcast - Chris Fleming (2019): ComCompendium

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

YouTube-famous glam-rock showpig Chris Fleming has amassed a legion of fans through brilliantly funny music videos, such as "I'm Afraid To Talk To Men", "Grad-Student Shuffle" and "Polyamorous". Chris Fleming: Live at The Palace, is now streaming on HBO Max so what better reason to resurface this episode originally released on Halloween in 2019, where we talk about:drowning in stand-up and clawing a way back to shore through developing live work for the internetproving one isn't "a YouTuber"the "restrictive freedom" of comedyand whether Chris is a real pariah or just a wannabe…Join the Insiders Club at patreon.com/comcompod where you can instantly get access to an exclusive LIVE Insider's Q&A with James from 2021.👉 Sign up to the NEW ComComPod Mailing List and follow the show on Instagram, YouTube & TikTok.Support our independently produced Podcast from only £3/month at Patreon.com/ComComPod:✅ Instant access to full video and ad-free audio episodes✅ 30mins of exclusive extra content with Chris✅ Early access to new episodes where possible✅ Exclusive membership offerings including weekly-ish Stu&AsPLUS you’ll get access to the full back catalogue of extras you can find nowhere else!Catch Up with Chris: Chris Fleming: Live at The Palace, is now streaming on HBO Max!Everything I'm up to: Come and see me LIVE including dates in Bristol, London, Manchester, Stoke, Marlborough, Mach and LA! Find out all the info and more at stuartgoldsmith.com/comedy. Discover my comedy about the climate crisis, for everyone from activists to CEOs, at stuartgoldsmith.com/climate.Get in touch: If you’re listening and thinking ‘I’d love to work with ComComPod on getting something out there’ or ‘there’s someone you should absolutely have on’ - drop us an email at [e-mail]! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

YouTube famous glam rock show pig and my friend Chris Fleming has amassed a legion of fans through his brilliantly funny music videos, such as I'm Afraid to Talk to Men, Grad Student Shuffle and Polyamorous. Probably if you don't know his name, you will at some point have been past or have seen one of these videos. Such is the depth of their virality. And I feel like if you listen to this show, you almost certainly have a similar, ish sense of human to me. So they will be the sorts of things that you immediately share with everyone, you know. Or more specifically, actually, you share with a specific person that you know, because that's kind of the... That, I think, is what makes something truly viral, is when an individual goes,

I will share this with a specific person. And Chris Fleming has just got that juice. He's got that quality in absolute spades. Chris Fleming, live at the Palace, is now streaming on HBO Max. I think it's his first special. It's certainly as first special on HBO Max and if you've seen the clips on Instagram or the social media of your preference

you will be as excited about it as I am. So what better reason to resurface this episode originally released way back in 2019 on Halloween in fact where we talk about how Chris found himself drowning in stand-up and clawed his way back to shore through developing his live work for the internet, how to prove one isn't a YouTuber,

the restrictive freedom of comedy, some juicy stuff there, and whether he's a real pariah or just a wannabe. We'll also be re-releasing 30 minutes of exclusive extras if you're in the Insiders Club, including Chris on his contemporaries from the early days and what it feels like now there are more freaks than bros in comedy. That is an interesting thing to revisit now in 2026. We'll find out Chris's mantra for self-confidence, which is a thing of great beauty. We'll discover some powerful insights into the nature of online comedy,

and we'll find out what he'd do if the internet were to break. Find out more about that at patreon.com.com slash comcom. And here is, and please listen, I hope you take it for granted that you should immediately get yourself, get your hands on his special on HBO Max. He's just one of my all-time favorites. So let that just be explicitly stated. If you haven't heard it, if you haven't seen it yet, go and see it or listen to this and then go, God, I'm going to go see that and then go and see it.

This is, I stress, not SpodCon. I'm just such a fad of his work. Here is Chris Fleming. So I saw your show live. Does that show have a name yet? I know the first tour was ShowPig. I've been called. I named it before I wrote it.

And just because they needed a name. And I called it a line that I heard in a David Anbrough documentary, like some of those shows. And it was the phrase, Paradise for a Toad. That's nice. That's a good title. Yeah, isn't that good? But it doesn't at all have anything to do with this show. Maybe, like, really abstractly, you could get something.

Well, your stuff is, I don't know if abstract is the word, but it's very, if there's a theme, the theme is you. So I think you can link to any title. You can come over with it, men at work, sure. Right, right. Yeah, that's liberating. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't matter what it's called. And it's too late to name it now.

I think that's the last time I'm going to do it. I'll do it like a couple more times. Is that right? Is that the end of the life of that show? Yeah, I started in September of last year. Now I'm writing a new one because I pretty much went to all the markets that will accept me. So let's, and I should say, I loved it. Oh, thank you.

I went with Deanne Smith. Yeah, I met her finally after in the lobby. She knew you were going to do the podcast and she was like, okay, how can you arrange for me to meet and or marry, Chris. She's great. She's superb. I was, she was the one who you accused very early on of cackling like a witch. Oh, okay.

We both have big laughs. Next to hers, mine was dwarf completely. It was a sinister, okay, it sounded like a very sinister French-Canadian laugh. Yeah, it did, it was actually, well, she is Canadian. It was oddly timed. Yeah. Well, I think that's the thing when comics watch comics. We're laughing at setups.

So, yeah. We're like, oh, I love where this is going. The timing's all terrible. Right. But we saw the show, absolutely loved it. You, I feel like you walked out. They screamed. and then you matched that energy

and then everyone stayed there for an hour. It was just an incredible show. Did you enjoy it? Did it feel like a good run out of that show? I was actually talking to Dean about that. I think about how I've learned recently to stop ridiculing. I used to feel strange about that, about people laughing too hard.

Yeah. And I would ridicule the audience for laughing too hard. And then I realized that then the laughs would get quiet. So I stopped doing that. And I didn't do that. It was on the first times that I'm not really, I mean, I did ridicule, like you just said. I didn't call some people out. But like I, and it did sustain pretty, pretty well, those volumes.

Because I think in an intimate setting like that, it's okay. But if it's in a huge theater and everyone's just like screaming the whole time, it feels really kind of psychotic. Yeah. It doesn't feel right. And what is that scream? That's like you're the, you're their champion. Yeah. What is that relationship with you and your audience?

Because you are someone who, like, you're massively internet famous. Is that, is that fair to say? Like millions and millions of views and downloads and stuff. A lot of, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't personally. I would let you say that. I wouldn't personally say that. I wouldn't personally say that.

You just relax on the show as long while someone else says the word millions. Yeah. Yeah. But that is, I really felt watching, I felt the relationship with that audience was such that, I know this is a pet theory which I'm happy to be a disavowed of but I felt like when you make stuff online your stuff is so specific

your references are so specific there is no you're not working to the lowest common denominated I don't mean lowest but you know I mean you're super specific are you on board with this facet of this show of this person and as a result when you put that online

it finds its audience and then precisely those people come to see you Exactly. And you are their champion. And that has kind of lent itself to me fearing. Like I have to do like a gala or something that's not my audience. I start to fear performing for not my crowds. Sure.

Because I've, with my crowds, I especially started off with kind of like a cult kind of following. So it was like it was quite small in the beginning. It was like the same 50 people coming out to every show in every area. And so I had to all, I could never reuse any, any material. And so it's been a very kind of cumulative process. process, my whole, like, anyone who I think comes to see me is pretty familiar with, and maybe I'm, this is not to sound vain, but like, I think they're very familiar with pretty much everything that I do.

Yes. And so I have to build on top of that of everything that I've done. And so it's very like, we're starting from here. Yeah. Instead of for the podcast. Chris is motioning higher. Yeah. Thank you.

As opposed to, like, when I perform for, you know, people who don't know me, it's like, oh, God, how do I fill them in on all this sets that I. Yes. you've got to kind of inject context into them straight away. And that's why the people that come see me, I think, are really, really positive and hyped and everything is because we, it's like we've had this experience and we can, and here's where we're going to go from there. It kind of feels.

And so I think that's, is that answer your question? Yeah, I think so. I think in the genesis of a comic, to have the same 50 people to entertain, like, how often would you gig to those crowds? How often would you need to completely? Like twice a year. Okay, okay. I was losing my mind, writing new things.

Doing hour-long shows longer? Well, that was back when I was doing my character, Gail. And I was, when we were touring sometimes with a cast, even, and we would have to write these new shows. But it was basically just, like, botched stand-up kind of. Yeah. And then I started solo touring, and I would do it, like, once a year. So right now I'm at, like, a one-year.

I have to write a new, like, a new show of some sort. And then I spilled the best parts online, you know, like the musical parts. Does it work that way around? So you make the stuff live And then you record the YouTube video Of the stuff that's working live Yeah, I tested it out in the live crowds And then the best things like the musical pieces or whatever

That work really well Then I turn into a video Oh, that's interesting Because I discovered you first online And I think the polyamorous couples song Was the first bit I don't even remember You know, some sort of YouTube algorithm threw it at me

And I went, yes, please. So I had It's not going to age well. Do you don't think? No. It's a very current observation. Well, I just think that I could get, I mean, you know, the only people that I've made angry about that are polyamorous dudes, which I'm totally a piece of it. The premise of the song is that it's never the people that you want to be polyamorous who are polyamorous.

I don't see anyone who could lose their temper at that. I think that's a funny observation. Why do you say it won't age well? Do you think in a kind of a social climate? you will, from 30 years from now, we'll look back and go, look at this pretty mocking people's liberated choices. Really? I have not occurred to me at total. I think it could be part of my undoing.

I don't know, maybe not. My undoing is a great show title. Yeah, that's good. But I discovered that one. Our undoing, that's good too. Our undoing is not, and it's also saucy. Or let's undo. That's good, and it fits on a bird.

Yeah. Yeah. The, what was I saying? Oh, yeah, so I assumed it was that way round. I assumed that you were a YouTube creator who then was like, oh, I can leverage this by doing live shows. Oh, it was the other way around. The other way around.

So I was doing stand-up long before. I turned to YouTube because I was just, like, drowning in L.A. And I started doing, I was doing stand-up for, like, like, I started around 17, and I was doing it for long before. And then I just took my character, like, yeah, which is a character I did in my stand-up. And so I then just turned that into a series because I saw the people were doing like little things like that in, like, 2011 or whatever. Sure. And so I just did that to try and get things on my, going on my terms because it was like, and it really felt like a last-ditch effort.

Like I was putting everything in the can and just firing it out because I would like it was so bleak. The word drowning in stand-up. Talk to me about drowning in stand-up. There'll be people listening to this, I'm sure. Who are in that phase at the moment. Yeah, it was like, things were changing. It was like there's the old way of making it of success, being successful in the industry.

Like, you know, like you work your way up and like you wait for someone, this is the right person to see you. Yeah. Like I just had a man. So I got seduced in coming out to LA by a manager who saw me perform in Boston. She saw me do stand up. And then I moved to L.A. And she promptly became a chef.

Oh, God. Talk about specific. Great. Yeah. And so I was alone in LA and, yeah, like performing, like, struggling to do a free show once a month. And, like, I would be so nervous about who was in the crowd in that show that it wouldn't even go that well. And, like, it was just going nowhere. From some idea of, like, I'm in L.A., there could be someone important who could change this and I need never have to do this awful.

And I didn't realize that that was an imaginary concept that was fed to me by. I don't know, baby boomer propaganda or whatever. Sure. Sure. Something about the 90s or something. And so then I was like, I met with, there was a manager. So Stephen Wright saw me do a show and he was like, I want you to meet my manager. And I met with his manager and he was like, the manager was like, I want you to write, submit to write for this popular show in America. And I was like, well, I actually had this web series that I'm working on right now that I'm about to launch.

I'm really excited about. Could we work on that? He's like, no, I need you to do this show. And I was like, so I was like, okay. I'm just going to be unrepresented for... Oh, good for you. So I just went from... Because that is being noticed by someone important.

That was the thing you wanted. Yeah. Big name comics. And I didn't like where it was gone. Right, right. Good for you. Good for you. Because that need and the kind of LA hunger,

presumably was, was that a difficult decision? Did you agonize over it? Or did you just go out? No, it was just, I was like, I feel like this series could do things for me. And they were like, we're not interested in even talk about that. So, so yeah, no, I... It wasn't a difficult decision at all.

Well, I just, so I went by myself and did that. And I, yeah, everything that I accomplished pretty much was grassroots without any representation until, like, I needed to get signed like a couple years ago to like just take care of the other stuff. Where did the belief in, that was, so that was Gail you were doing so that that series, which I, some of which I've seen, which I enjoyed very about. Oh, thank you. Like that, like, what, five seconds in the first joke is she snorts the granola off the counter. I'm in, I'm in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so where did the belief?

belief in that project. Like, had you already released some online, or was it just that you had the plan you'd written them? I never really, I didn't really say yet. No, but I just, I just really, um, had a really good feeling about it. I think because I had heard it, I'd heard it, um, just so well in front of live audiences. And then I, uh, and then I, I just had absolute faith in it. I don't know. It was like, you know, the gut. I go, I go off the gut a lot, which I heard George W. Bush also did. He was very impulsive like that. But that's how I, yeah, I don't really think very much about those things. It's just like, oh, this is a feeling that I have.

So it was one of those. So, yeah, I did that. And then, so that kind of, so everyone thinks of me as this YouTuber because of that. And I've been very bad at the whole, like, YouTube mar. I just randomly upload things after I make them or whatever or if I run them by audiences. And so me trying to get back into stand-up was trying to kind of, show that I'm not just one of those like yeah yeah because so what's one of those define your time what were you trying to show that you were like like like there's there's a stigma

you know with with like a YouTuber and and I I've always kind of tried to sure distance myself from that and so so I abandoned the character of Gail and just with show pig I was trying to kind of prove that I have chops myself and so there was that was a stressful process Starting from scratch to build show pick Yeah, right So what was stressed? Because I had stopped doing stand-up During the time that I was doing Gail

I took like two years off Because it was like this So sweet So sweet. It was great Because you know when you can get in like The loop where you just keep Like you on

Back then I was just doing my formula Of like writing And it was like so Do you ever do that? How do you mean your formula? You're like oh well this is how I write jokes Or this is how I do this So this is how I write out a bit

And it's just like you're you're almost like becoming this. It's like it's not, there's like a stealing on it. Yes, absolutely. If you don't take a break. Sure. And you are, what I find hard is that that formula becomes sort of affirmed and confirmed by the people around you in the industry. Exactly. The modest degree of success.

You're like, I'm paying the rent. I'm paying the rent. And all my friends are working hard. And like I'm bitching about this horrific drive I've had to do. And everyone's like, yep, that's the thing you've got to do. And when people tell you who you are, that's the worst. When they tell you, when they try to explain who you are, the way you are, the way you write what your comedy is.

Go on. Because then I internalize that, kind of, and then that's limiting. Like, I like to not think at all about, like, my style or whatever. I just like to be completely free to explore any ideas that I want to explore. And if you start, I don't, maybe it's a Catholic thing, But I don't like looking under the hood at all. And representation, like they want to do that so that they can sell you, which I understand. But whenever I'm a part of that conversation, it's like a bad trip.

Yeah. I think it's kind of the enemy of writing for me because I like to, I try to throw out the formula like I was talking about before, like building on things because I'm so fearful of people being like that's derivative of something that you did already. And so I'm trying to always throw things out and start from scratch. of course it's the same mind, of course, going into it, but I don't like to think about the mechanics of it. What sorts of things were people telling you that you were? Okay, character-driven, that, like, I would do very short setups and then long character pieces, and so I was like, okay, that's what I did stand.

And I haven't done that in forever. That I'm, you know, that I'm a character comic or that I'm, that it's the androgyny that people are into, or it's just anything. way that people would describe me or that I'm a physical comic, anything, any type of thing, you know, instead of being able to use all of the elements, I feel like it's, it's kind of reductive, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've got this pet theory and I talk about this all the time. I've probably mentioned it in the last five episodes because it's really in my head at the moment, that we are all brave once as comics. We do this incredible act of bravery. Oh, wow. And then as soon as we step on stage and go, I did it, we close back down and we go, what am I supposed to do next? What do we all do?

how can I be the same as everyone? Yeah. Rather than pursuing, oh, look at the enormous benefit to my soul that came from being incredibly brave that time. I'll continue being incredibly brave. We don't we go, I did it, I did it. Now can I conform in a different way. Wow.

Into, yeah. But it sounds like you managed to... It's like a factory farm. It turns into a... Yes, it's a voluntary factory farm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's such an illusion of bravery with that. But, yeah, it is cowardly.

Yeah. Well, you know, starting is brave. And then, like, I'm sure I've sent to people in the past, like, they go, oh, you know, that must be really difficult doing stand-up. And you go, oh, it's difficult to start. But, you know, keeping going is fine. And listening to that now, that sentiment, I should have been like, oh, yes, that's wrong. It should be terrifying still.

I should be going towards something more frightening. But it sounds like you. Well, with improv, though, what I do like about improvising in stand-up is it does allow for that bravery, although it's like, it's coward. It's still cowardice because I can only do it when they're really behind me. Like at the beginning of that show, like I like to do like, I improvised throughout. I was very loose at the beginning. I really enjoyed how loose.

No, not at all. No, no, no. But I remember thinking, oh, wow, his crowd works phenomenal. Because you were absolutely, you know. Because they were so on top of it and they were so into it. It allowed me to do some. And I ended up writing some of that stuff down because some of it ended up being kind of funny in hindsight. Best way to write.

Best way to write. Go on and improvise him. of people who think you're amazing anyway. Huge amount of wind in the sail. Do that, record that 10 minutes every time for a tour and that's the next tour. Come on, easy. No more sitting in cafes of the notebook. Totally.

I hate writing by myself. I kind of do a crock pot style and that I like take notes throughout my life and like use accumulatively. But I, the whole like artist's way thing. Discipline, sit down, produce. Because then you start finding, like then it's Tendant turns on this part of my brain that's like, what's funny about chairs?

Yeah, totally. I hate it. Which is a thought I had when I was really desperate once in like 2008. And I was, I was. I think everyone has to, you have to encounter the thought, what's funny about chairs. I mean, it's chair, like you're inescapably in a chair. I think everyone has to have had that thought, but it's about how you react to that thought. It's such an icy memory for me, too.

Like, I see it now, and I don't know if I'm rewriting it, but I see a chair. You ever see stranger things? things, you know, how like when they go and ever, like, that girl, like, uses her powers and goes into this, like, almost like it's like an airplane, hangar. And it's completely black and the way I see it is like just like a backlit chair in this never-ending warehouse with a light on it. Darkness all around. What's funny about, well, there's just a chair.

That's all I have to work with. Yeah. And I find whenever I have encountered what's funny about this chair moments, I suppose I have, there's been like a big kind of collapse of confidence because you think, well, if I was a proper comedian, I'd be able to come up with a great half hour on chairs. For me, it's, I need to, I need to go to bed. For me, it's, I need to, I need to turn this off because this is a dangerous train of thought. I need to go live some life and get an inspired idea when it happens. That's a big thing too. And maybe what I was talking about. talking about with the stigma that at least I feel about YouTube is that there's this, I think that recklessly releasing content in a world where it's so oversaturated with content. Like, that's why I try to only put things out occasionally that I'm really passionate about and then I really inspired because I think it's just kind of distasteful to put things out that are not completely from the heart and soul.

Sure. And that goes, you know, that kind of goes against the whole industry model. Oh, the ethos is just record every second of your life and constantly upload and stream it and then we're all an individual 24-hour soap opera. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not, I don't like that. I suppose one of the preconceptions I have about YouTubers is that they're going to have a big online following and then you're going to go and see them live and they're going to suck ass because they've got no actual live skills.

You've obviously come to it the other way around. So you were doing stand-up. Are there any kind of contemporaries from your- And I have no YouTube skills? And I have no YouTube. Oh, do you not? Well, no, I mean, I don't know. Do you edit it yourself?

I know, I do. In terms of the marketing, I have no. Oh, I see what you do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, what is the marketing? Someone told me, or I read an article recently about the success of YouTube is all driven by the suggestions bar down the right hand side. It's all about whether you're in that bar.

And if you are and if you're making the right connections, and that's why it's all so horrific and apocalyptic is because, oh, you watch this guy attacking Nazis? Here's some Nazis you might enjoy. Do you mean? Like, I think they're tweaking it now. Oh, yeah. Within only as much as they, I mean, as little as they can. Yeah, no, it can be ruinous to a person's psyche.

Do you have any understanding of it as a YouTuber? Do you have any experience of it? Have you ever kind of clocked like, oh, it would be good to release things on day X? Oh, I actually have. Yeah. Yeah, there are certain times where, yeah, early on I was worried about that. And I was doing weekly things with Gail to try and, because you had to do that back in a certain time. Everyone was sort of like, it's like, it's almost like stranger things, isn't it?

There's some sort of vortex. And it was like, how must we respond? When is the vortex pleased with us? Yeah, yeah. How can we most correctly worship the vortex in order that we get more visibility? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they would, and the real threat was that they would unsubscribe if you didn't do a weekly thing. Oh, I see.

Yeah. And that's how I think a lot of these people lose their minds. And did you have, yeah, right, that you have some sort of analytic thing you can see the numbers drop off. Oh, yeah. People unsubscribe. Which is scary. Okay. Can you also on YouTube, is this on YouTube?

You can look at the back end of a video and go, oh, that's when they switch off. It's when I started talking about subject X. I don't look at that. The minutes watched. I don't look at that. Okay. Okay. That would hurt too much.

God. Yeah. Yeah, that's a whole other world to me. I sort of, I'm hazily aware of all these elements of it. Yeah. But yeah, so people are producing loads of content. Yeah. And you were saying that you wanted to produce less and make it better.

That's where I meant now, yeah. Yeah, right, which is kind of a, do you feel like YouTube wants that? No. Do you have any idea? Do it just want? Occasionally, it's very, I don't really, it's such a fickle beast that, like, they do, like, promote me occasionally, like, random things that I do, and it's always the least expected video.

very, very strange. And so I just put no thought into that. All I know that I can do is just try and make the best shit that I can make. Yes. And then just release it. And so all of, like, if I think of your, I don't know if they're your most popular ones, or if they're just ones that caught my eye or ones that were directed at me through some algorithm that I don't understand and never will.

But things like the weirdly unlikable guy. Oh, I love that. Which is, and it's wildly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's such a wild, downlikable guy. Yeah, yeah. It is such a brilliant observation that, like, all good observations, I'm like, oh, I've had that thought. Like, I definitely remember meeting

people in my life and kind of going, I just can't seem to get on with this guy. Maybe I'm a terrible person. And then someone else will go, oh, no, that guy, he's a dickhead. And you go, oh, it's not me. That is a wonderful moment. And that piece of work of yours, that video kind of really sums that up majestically with loads of detail. It happened for me. I was, my, the person I make music with was out in L.A. And we were doing a recording session. And I was having a hard time with ideas. So I went in a drive and I saw this guy who I walk by every day and who walks his dog and he just has the worst vibe. And I, and I was like, oh, God, like, why can I make it work with him? And then I saw this, this older man bike by him and just give him this horrible look. And I was like,

oh, oh, I wish someone would tell me this. So I, that, yeah, that, I wasn't even looking at that as like, that was when the comedian in me left. And I was just like, I want to make a PSA and just like have Like, I wish someone could just have told me this at 11. Yes, yeah, yeah. That's interesting. That's a public service announcement for my non-American. Oh, sorry. But, yeah, and that's a good generator for material, isn't it?

Because I find sometimes people who can generate great wealth of comedy content are often people with a point to make or an argument to win. And I think actually the desire to warn is probably, that's quite an interesting level. Songs are really, they're so enjoyably weird. They strike me as, and you don't need to tell me if I'm wrong, but they strike me as someone who can make music and sing properly, who has chosen to completely ignore rhythm, not ignore, but like willfully become arithmic and stuff.

Things don't rhyme. That's a very generous. It's actually... I'm doing it. my best. The beauty of it is that the guy is a savant who makes the music and I am a rancid musician

and so well actually a lot of the instrumentals I do like polyamorous I did do that music but wildly and likable guy he did the music for and yeah and like the really he makes incredible music and then I sing so poorly

and then we like try and auto tune it because I have like so many lyrics that we try and squeeze into each song. Yes. And that's why there's no rhyming or rhythm almost. And I kind of like that because like musical comedy for me like I think it can be like cutesy and like I never like a rhyming joke. I feel like in the 50s, they were great. Like totally good on him. But like now I think it's like to be surprising don't rhyme. Just like do just like let it out. Yes. It's like it's a little like dissonant. I don't know. I just like that.

That also was how I caught my second wind. After I was really tired of writing stand-up was just like doing music. It was like it was the most fun just like making these kind of horrible songs. Were you already musical or was it like you had just kind of decided to step into that?

All my friends are musicians. And so I'm not musical. But I, so it will take, I'll have a keyboard and I use logic and I just like try. And I like took a lot of, I was in band and everything. I played the tuba and whatnot. But like, I'm just putting a pit in tuba and we're coming back to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm a very bad musician. Okay. Yeah, there's no other way to put it. And something about your songs is that because the word surprise is really key, isn't it? Because you, like, you might repeat a chorus, but the chorus is in itself. It's not an easily... It's not like a...

It's not like a memorable chorus the first time you hear it so the second time it feels like a surprise. I suppose what I try to say is that sometimes with comedy songs they can be predictable because someone repeats the chorus and you're like, well, we really know these jokes.

You're just saying these jokes again. Right. Whereas even though you repeat the chorus on some of your songs, it doesn't have that problem because it is so jangled and dissonant that you're like, oh, oh, what are we... Oh, is this bit again?

Like, you know what I mean? So there is still a journey to go on. There's still something to discover from it. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I meant it positive. No, no, no.

I mean that. So to ram all of those observations in, someone that left a fabulous comment on your YouTube, which is on one of your videos, which was that. The comments are great. They are great. Do you know how unusual that is? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Why do they all love you so much? They're really, really great. Is there something about the nature of the nature of, your videos that if someone's gonna hate it, they just don't watch it? I've had- You don't get negative comments? I've had almost no hateful stuff. It's crazy.

That is crazy. I know. I know. I'm very lucky. It's not luck. What is it? Do you have a theory? What is it?

Why aren't people, is it that... Women get more hate. Yeah? That's my... That's my... No, it's true. I know. You're a weird man.

Yeah, yeah. I wonder if you are wearing your weirdness so proudly as a shield and a lance you know, it's like, fucking come on then, point out, maybe that's it? I don't know. I just am very grateful because I can be leveled. You can be leveled by comments

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, the first time I got a negative comment was it was on a British site. It was the Daily Mail. That will be a punchline to anyone in the UK. Okay, the horrific right-wing rat. Okay. Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That does not represent our own. Okay, yeah. There was one comment that I, like, had to, I was, like, bedridden for, like, for like 10 hours. Not really. I mean, but it was, like, I had to, like, I had to kind of lie down and just. Now, given that you obviously remember that comment word for word, because we all do. Yeah.

Do you remember, can you share us with the comment? No. I'm not going to. Is it sealed it in lead forever? Totally understand. Okay, I'll tell you. Go on. Oh, I'm not going to tell you.

Okay, I'll tell you. It was something. Something along the lines of, I don't know why this got to me. I don't know why it got to me. It was, he should take an improv class. Oh, oh, that is not what I was expecting at all. He should take an improv class. Oh.

It killed me. It absolutely killed me. God. Yeah. Yeah. So, but what, that would make me angry rather than sad, I think. Why would that make, why would that kill you? I don't know.

Because you have taken. No. No. You're a theatre kid, right? You did, you studied theatre or some sort of drama. Yeah. Yeah. So you must have done improv.

I fancy myself a good improviser. You are a good improv, but you're an excellent improviser. So, but you have the, you must have a confidence in yourself that you're an excellent improvising. Yeah, yeah. So why would that upset you somewhere? It was 2015. I don't know. God, that's fascinating.

Maybe because on YouTube, everything, like, everything's so overedited that you can, like, get away with stuff. But then I always felt like I was kind of, like, I could speak the language of comedy or that fluent in the language of it. And then if someone like poked a hole in that idea of myself, I just, I bled out. That is very strange. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So that self-image, maybe that hurt you so much because that is your personality. Your, you as a creative, performative comedy person is yourself. Yeah. And so for someone to go, this guy should try being a creative comedy person. It's like that maybe just gets to the root of like, oh, this guy isn't the self that he thinks he is?

Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it really, uh, it was the, I'm sorry to bring that up. You're wiggling your leg now and I can only apologize.

It was, it was, the, the five point Pimei heart punch or whatever. I mean, I was absolutely, I was, I was leveled. God, but that's, that does strike me a stranger. I don't think I've ever spoken about it out loud to anybody. Yeah, well, I appreciate, thank you. I appreciate you going there on. on our behalf. Yeah.

But yeah, that does strike me a strange. Those, let's talk then a bit about vulnerability. Because you are, and again, I feel like I use this as a touchstone. I overuse this on the podcast. Apologies to do this. I like control vulnerability. Okay. Well, so what are we going to say?

Well, the thing I was going to mention was I am a big fan of the band, The Mountain Goats. I don't you familiar with John Donnell from the Mountain Goats? We have the same, a very similar Spotify following. Oh, what? Do you really? Yeah. Do you really? That is lovely. It's like Mitzki, Mountain Goats and me.

Who's the other one? They're on my record. They're on my Spotify, right? Like, if it's like, if you like Chris Fleming, you'll like, The Mountain Goats and Minsky. That's interesting. Who's Mitzki?

So, Missky's this great, kind of blew up with her new album, Nobody, I believe it's called. And it's really, really beautiful. Is it funny? It's kind of funny. Yeah, it's very, it's quirky vulnerability. But no, it's like, it's like very serious.

Sure. Yeah, yeah. It's not like me at all. Because my thing about John Darnell, which I love and I met him, and he was such a wonderful, but he's such a lovely man, and his work is just incredible and constant as well. He's chucking out albums every year, you know. What I love about him is I saw him live and he was dressed in a tweedy jacket with leather elbow patches.

Nice. And the reason he was cool was because he was being himself one million percent. Mm-hmm. And that is in his sense. and as someone who I think we all to some degree want to be cool, but you can only be cool by accepting what you have. That's the most Zen thing. It's like if you want to, what is that Scott Pilgrin thing,

if you want to pull the sword of self-acceptance from yourself, then you need to go, oh, I'm, like for me, I'm, oh, I look kind of bland. You don't look bland. I think I'm a bland. You got great hair. Thanks, mate. I had a review pre-haired this was. I had a review that said I was blandly handsome.

And when I say that on stage, when I say that on stage, it gets a huge laugh. And I'm like, you were all thinking it. So that really got to me. Not in a, I don't lose sleep over it. But I do feel like that's one of the things I have to absorb in order to be myself. Blanley, so Blanley Hanson is like newscaster handsome. Yeah. You're better than that.

I have a line which is based on something someone, a friend of mine said to me in a roast, I have a line. I've completely cut and shut this guy's joke. I don't think I even asked. but which is that I look like the guy you get, the guy in the picture that comes free with the picture frame. And that's true. It's funny because it's true, right? I'm, you know, all of that time.

I've got some gear about this. And it is. And, you know, how vain am I? Like, oh, the thing that wounds me is the way in which I've had some. I think if someone insults you, then you can use that line. Yes. I think, yeah. Thank you.

That's so. I think if it's an act of violence, then it's yours. Against you. I think that that also has a kind of deeper truth to it. Because if someone, it is about appropriating stuff. I think of that in kind of, in gay culture, where people, you take the term fag and you take the term queer and you use that as ammunition and you use it as power. Right.

So there is something about like someone insults you and you're like, thank you because now I know what you see. And there is a value to that. Because now if I say it next time it gets a laugh, then it's my laugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Controlled vulnerability. Controlled vulnerability. Yeah, yeah. And I think with you, when you came on stage the other night wearing, from what I remember,

was it a blue crushed velvet jacket? I'm a colorblind, so I thought it was purple. Oh, it made me. No, you're probably right. Blueish. And kind of a blouse. Mm-hmm. Like a black blouse with a...

A pussy bow or something? Is that what it is? I think I call it a pussy bow. I hope I'm not just saying that. And were they flares? It was a crushed velvet flares. Yes. And I only saw the...

Purple boots. The purple boots with the stars on them. Yes. When you did something acrobatic, and that sort of flash of fear, I was like, of course. Yes. That is someone being themselves, one million percent.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. That's very nice. Yeah, you know, and I think that's what the... It takes a while to get there. It took a... It took a... I used to wear what I thought I should wear on stage, you know?

Which was what? What did you think you should wear? Like a T-shirt and jeans, you know? And like, you know, what I saw other comics wearing. Sure. Oh, what are we all doing? Yeah, yeah.

What are we supposed to do? How can I fit into the outsiders? Yeah, exactly. And then, yeah, slowly but surely, I got the confidence to really dress the way I want to dress. And you, yeah, so they love that. They love that. Because also, I mean, it is rock and roll as well.

It looks like, so, you know, Mick Jagger would have worn that in the 60s. Yeah. I've always been way more inspired by rock and roll than anything else. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, you know, that really infuses the show because you are musical as well. I'm so jealous of comics that can be funny and do funny music

because you get to be a rock star and a comic. Does that have it feel? Do you feel like you're embodying that? Wow. You know, less that than it just, I do feel that after since releasing music, people have felt a deeper connection to me. It's a different kind of fandom, for lack of a better word. Yeah, right.

I think that, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've noticed a big shift since doing music. Yes. Yeah. There is an excellent comic in the UK called Tom Parry, who I remember on the podcast years ago, said that he was working with a, he does work with a sketch group and as well as solo stuff. And he was saying what the mistake that a lot of comics in the UK make, and we have the, have you been to the Edinburgh Festival, have you ever done? No, I have.

No, but you have done the UK because I remember that's a very funny material about, bombing in London. And oh God, we'll get on to the poetry and the language in a bit. But the phrase that stuck with me for the rest of my life was, I performed that bit in London to a personality-changing silence. Like, oh, God, we were killing yourself. I mean, I know we all know the personality-changing silence. Like my posture is slightly different.

Yeah, yeah. Ever since. God, it's like I've been in space for two years. Yeah. Yeah. So Tom Perry said, the mistake that a lot of comics make is that we, we want to make them laugh and think. And he says, no, you should make them laugh and feel.

Feel, totally. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think when I, if I do some funny stuff, like if I think of my best stuff at the moment or the stuff I most enjoy, people relate to that stuff in a kind of a, oh, I didn't realize I felt like that. But I'm not singing at them.

And so they're only ever really thinking, I agree and have had that thought rather than not even thinking, just having an emotional, oh, me too. Like, yes, this speaks to me. There is a way to get there without just music. You know, like either through physically portraying something, I think theater can do that. Yes. I think you can physically represent a feeling that they've never really put a look to or whatever.

I think that like even comedic monologues, I think people can't, there's a musicality to the best of them and people can remember them in the way that they remember music too. But right, I think that the feeling is not only a great way to try and connect with an audience, but a great way to write. I think writing about feelings, I think, is also using that just from a jumping off point, because then you're going to get to their feelings too. The audience is going to be writing about your feelings.

Ideas are great, of course. But, no, that's such a great way of putting it. I really, I really like that. Yeah, it's because it's such a hotline. And that is another tangent. That makes me think smell is a hotline. I don't think there are any comics working with smell, but there should be. You imagine.

Smell is the easiest way to anyone's... For a live event. Oh, my God. If you had 30 smells. Oh, my God. And a fan. I was thinking that if any president ran on the idea of being able to record a smell, then I would back them 100%.

It's amazing how we haven't been able to... There's been times where I almost grabbed my phone to try and... So I could, like, record a smell and send it to somebody. like you know but you can't and that is really the way to someone's heart is yeah absolutely yeah that's true that's an under explored

Chris Fleming in Aroma Vision that would work how do you do that how do you mass market that you don't you make it tiny this is an experience for one person at a time it's a fabulous British comic called Simon Munnery who did a conceptual restaurant so it's called La Concepter

and he was the door star and the waiter and the chef, and it was for eight people at a time, and he would offer you a choice of dishes, all of which were jokes. Oh, my God. Yeah, great. Wow.

Come to Edinburgh. I think cool like that happens in America. Everyone's just doing the same old shit in America. Have you done much on TV? Would you be interested in making stuff for TV, or does TV actually hold no attraction for you? Because you already have your own thing and you're in charge of it. Oh, no, no, no.

I mean, I've acted in things. I've never made a TV show. I'm developing one right now, working on trying to, yeah. And is that, can you tell us anything about it? Is it like a U vehicle? Is it a sketch show? Well, there's two. There's one sketch show that we're trying to,

but I'm doing something with the guys who make corporate on Comedy Center where it's called, I won't give the name, but it's kind of where I play the mayor of a utopia. I love it. When you settled on that as the pitch, the mayor of a utopia, did you go, it's that, it's this thing? Or is it like, is it? Because there's you and you are the product, you're the thing,

and it's your imagination in your world. That's right. At what point do you go, do you have a feeling of like, oh, this is the right vehicle? This is like the mayor of a utopia, that's who I should be. That's not been done before, and it suits me completely. Did you go through 10 different ideas to get to that? I usually, no, because I've learned through writing that for me it's less about the idea

and it's more about the commitment, how it's pursued. I have always, I used to stress a lot about, and I still do, about the idea, the genesis of it. And I don't think that that matters as much as what you do with it. So I'm kind of, which is kind of a liberating way to write. And so that was just the first thing that came to my, the name of the show is what came to my head. And then we just kind of went with that. And that was, yeah, that.

And we developed a first thing. for like six months. But like, I think, and that's part of the, part of the trusting nature, I think you have to, as tough of a critic as you need to be with yourself, I think it's also really important to trust instincts and just be like, yeah, this is the right idea. And then then you develop and you're like, oh, thank God, I can mention that idea. Yeah. Instead of worried about making it about basketball. Or it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter the original. I think the Genesis doesn't not matter. I think it's how you. Last question. You mentioned freaks earlier on. You mentioned being a freak. And

in the show that I saw here in Montreal, you did that wonderful material about St. Vincent. That's my favorite bit. Oh, God, it was so lovely. It was so, you, I remember we came out and me and Deand said the exact phrase to each other, which was those aren't, you know, all the things that make you a freak, St Vincent, those aren't, there's not, you're not a freak, those are heavily vetted idiosyncrasies.

Those are, yes, yes. What a sentence. So I just wanted to, just finish on that idea of a freak. Do you feel like a freak? Yeah. Have you always? Okay, wait, way, way, wait, wait.

Okay, I think, okay, this is kind of complicated. I want to be a freak. I have always had a complex where I always thought I was too not freaky. I always thought that people, that I always felt in, like, I always felt like I was too Rob Thomas. You know what I mean? Which is insane. Like too mainstream or something. Sure, sure.

Like, I don't, when I, I don't think it's that crazy what I'm doing. I want to be seen as a freak. But I, and I think, I think in my head, I think, because people describe me as such that I think of that. But I, as a freak. And I, I know that that's how I'm perceived. And I want to be. But I have a, like a, what's the word? A hang up about not being freaky enough, I think.

Okay. Yeah. Do you have other friends that are more freaky? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Big time. I'm way more put together than all of my friends. You seem to have a very stable home life.

Very stable. Like your mom and dad appeared in Gail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think that? My life is very stable in general. Yeah. I'm, yeah. I mean, I can be chaotic.

but it's very kind of humdrum. Yeah. So is it, do you feel your, like what is it that makes, what is it in the genesis of the freak that you aspire to be that you, that you are missing? What would make you more? Like, should you have been bullied harder? Is that what exactly is the?

You know, I should have, I really should have been. I wasn't. I wasn't. I don't think I'd have been. of making light of bullying, which I would understand. No, but like, based on what I was like, I was, I was like, I've been like this pretty much, you know. I was, I was extremely flamboyant, and I should have been swirlied around the clock, and I was not. And I think.

Why weren't you? I, I don't. Oh, you know, I think, I think I've always been very good at, um, uh, understanding my role in society and being empathetic and seeing how I can make people laugh, how I can give people what they need in that moment. And I think providing that service was invaluable to my social success growing up. I think that, yeah, I kind of was able to, yeah, be, I think, I think that just comes down to empathy, I think, or social intelligence maybe, I don't know.

Is there any element? whereby there are people who are freaks who don't want to be the social performer. And that by being a freak who is happy to perform socially, you're kind of Uncle Toming as a freak. Right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, you feel like, you feel like an illegitist. I'll be your freak. Do you mean?

Is that more like this somewhere? Yeah. It's interesting. I've always wanted to be more different and weird than I naturally am. Yeah, I feel like guilty that I was never a pariah. Guilty that you were never a pariah. Wow. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, because that would fit with the idea of you. The narrative that I've built, yeah, because I think a lot of the people that come are disenfranchised or they feel like that. And I'm like, and they relate to me because I think I'm, I think because I was never prior, I have the confidence to be able to talk about. You're not sat in the audience at someone else being the Chris Fleming show. You're being him because you have the confidence. Yeah, yeah. And I think I only have that because of how glorious my upbringing and school life was. Like, it was just beautiful.

Because? Because I was accepted. I was just like, it was, like, I was shy when I was super young, but, but, but I broke out of that very quickly. So yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I think, I think that does that, I think that could explain. Yeah. And you're completely a valid champion for the people who want to be you, who want to have

your confidence, who want to wear their freakishness on their sleeve. Yeah. sleeves on their cross-veiled sleeves you know that like you know you're the champion yeah yeah are you happy are you happy oh yeah very happy oh yeah very very very happy i mean i you know the mood the moods can change a lot you know with with creativity the gestation period can be very painful before releasing something um but but but more i'm i'm very uh very happy, I think, right now. I have a dog. You're a dog? What kind of dog? You go a bejeon fris? Yeah. Yes. You only have a call him a beijon. And I was like, I think the end of that phrase is

Fis, but I don't know much of that. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. I don't even know she's really. She is. No, no, she's back in LA. I don't know if she's even a bejeon. We found her in L.A. A bison. I don't know the French for found. I was going to say a bisoned Perdue. That's lost, isn't it? That doesn't work. What else are you doing here in Montreal? Are you doing a gala?

Yeah. I'm doing a variety of 10 comics to watch. Oh, cool. I'm named one of those, so I get to do like a little, there's like a cocktail party tonight. Oh, nice.

And I haven't had a drink in 10 days. So one mojito is going to send me into the Jade Realm. So that should be, Jade Realm. That's what I call it. To me, sounds very much like the Kung Fu Panda franchise. That's my toddler. It's very into the Kung Fu Panda films.

I didn't realize. It's a perfect trilogy. Pandas are incredibly popular with children. Oh, yeah. Whenever I hear a family talking, a child is always saying something about pandas. Yeah, I suppose you're right. I've heard it like multiple times like recently.

Yeah. Maybe it's that. I don't know. What are you doing? I'm doing a taping. There's a John Door. Oh, I'm doing that. Are you doing that one as well?

Yeah, wait. I think he's doing more than one. Because my friend Guy Montgomery is here. Brilliant comic from New Zealand. Okay. Who you might have, his biggest claim to fame is that he was the co-creator of a podcast called the worst idea of all time. Did you ever be near about this? Probably.

Check out the worst idea of all time. Him and Tim Bat, another fabulous comic in New Zealand. They decided to review the same film every Monday for a year, and they chose grown-ups two. And so they watch the film every Monday morning for a year And the podcast is their genuine descent into literal madness That sounds like what they do to you in Guantanamo Yeah, he does, yeah, yeah, it's the worst time here So guys here, and he's doing John Doer, I don't know John Doer, he's...

I don't either. Oh, he's very funny, I don't know him personally. Sure, same. And so he's doing one of those. Oh, that would be great if one's the same one. I don't know who else is on the... I'm at 10 o'clock. Yeah, I'm at 10 o'clock.

I don't know if he's on the same night. That would be so great to kick together. Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. And you get nervous for those? I get nervous for tapings. Yes.

I hate when there's a camera for stand-up. Yes, I'm the same. I don't have a huge amount. I've done, like I said, three, four, five, maybe five bits of stand-up on TV. But you got that lilac. Yeah, I've got the lilac shacket.

So it's going to be fine, as long as I'm not following you in whatever the fuck you're wearing. I'm going to come out with Miller. It's just a mere lilac jacket. Sorry, everyone. Yeah. Oh, man.

I hope that's the same one. That'd be great. They could be irritated, though, by what I'm wearing, because these are not my fans. True story. Yes, I think that might have been the thing I was going to ask you about earlier on.

I noticed you did my friend Tom Ballard's show in Australia. Yeah! So how was that? Because I watched that clip and I thought, you did great, but I thought, Chris is not happy. No, no, no, I wasn't. Well, you know, I wasn't unhappy, but it was, I had just performed for a bunch of my Australian fans.

Yeah. And they were so good. And then I do this little show and they're like, or it was a big show, sorry. It has a, it's awesome. Huge show, Tom, huge show. Yeah, and yeah, I mean, it was a cold studio crowd. Yeah.

They were like, you know, where's your proper standup? Where's your intro? And then you started doing jokes of that bit about the mic stand and like, what I was told in comedy college was to do this. And they were like, hmm, you don't respect this at all. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I wedged myself in between one of the set pieces before.

coming out. Yeah, I don't know. It was fine. Really, really sweet guy though. Yeah, Tom. Yeah. That show also was in its last week. Oh, was it? Yeah, when I did it. Okay. Okay. Oh, I didn't realize that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it is, it is interesting. The, like, I feel good about the taping. I'm excited to do it. I did one here about four years ago, which, uh, did not go as well as I wanted it to. They never do. Well, I didn't know that. It was my first one. Yeah. So when I didn't, like my first two jokes didn't really get anything like what I was, you know, my confident big, hey, this is, oh, I think if I'd gone in going, this is going to go badly because they always do, I'd have stayed cooler. As it is, I was just rattled. I was like, whatever you need

them to be good, they're never good. Yeah, yeah, it's frustrating because I burnt, I've burned, not like millions of people have seen it, but, you know, I did some really, like, oh, that was my absolute favorite bit at the time. Oh, yeah. And it was a bit, really well in the warm up in some Oh, God. Oh, if you do your... Oh, God. Yeah, I was like, oh, this is my... This is a bit of TV.

I'm arriving. This is my first Montreal. Something I've dreamt about performing here since I was like 14 or something. Yeah. And I didn't realize it was going to be hard and the Compaire brought the host brought me with a joke that sort of knocked me.

Do you mean? It was like a joke about me. I was like, oh, so I'm walking on going, what the fuck? Oh, oh, great. Do you know what I mean? So, now I'm ready. Now I'm like, well, A, it's going to go online

and it's not going to set the world on fire. Yeah. It's going to get seen here. Actually, the joy of this is the joy of performing in a room and having a fun life experience. And I'm excited about the stuff I'm going to say. And I believe in the stuff. And now I feel very happy about doing it. It's on my terms.

That's it. Yes. Yes. It's got to be, if you're going to bomb, you've got to bomb on your own terms. I'm not going to bomb, Chris. Oh, sorry. No, right, right, right, right. Sorry, you're not going to bomb.

But if we do, it's okay. It's okay. As long as you're not pandering when you're bombing, it's a victory. Yes. But it's hard not to talk. Dear the listener, I just pointed at Chris very hard. But as a stand-up, it's so hard to not feel that pander instinct, even a little bit, to be like, oh, I need to make fun of myself more. Yes, I do.

I am guilty of that in the past. Historically, I have been guilty of that. Me too. But although, what's the phrase, I have negative, but I am positive. Yes. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, we're going to have fun.