The Comedian's Comedian Podcast - Ellie Taylor (2019): ComCompendium

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

Welcome back for another delve into the ComComPod archives, this time with episode 308 with Ellie Taylor where we discuss:the absurd concept of Show Me the Funnyhow her happy life outside of comedy protects herthe weird science of writingand why she "can't do clever topics"Join the Insiders Club at patreon.com/comcompod where you can instantly get access to the full back catalogue of extras.👉 Sign up to the NEW ComComPod Mailing List and follow the show on Instagram, YouTube & TikTok.Support our independently produced Podcast from only £3/month at Patreon.com/ComComPod:✅ Instant access to full video and ad-free audio episodes✅ Exclusive extra content you can't find anywhere else✅ Early access to new episodes where possible✅ Exclusive membership offerings including weekly-ish Stu&AsCatch Up with Ellie: You can keep up to date with Ellie by joining her mailing list at ellietaylorcomedy.com and follow on Instagram, @elliejanetaylor.Everything I'm up to: Come and see me LIVE - find out all the info and more at stuartgoldsmith.com/comedy. Discover my comedy about the climate crisis, for everyone from activists to CEOs, at stuartgoldsmith.com/climate.Get in touch: If you’re listening and thinking ‘I’d love to work with ComComPod on getting something out there’ or ‘there’s someone you should absolutely have on’ - drop us an email at [e-mail]! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Stu Goldsmith here. Welcome back for another delve into the archives at Comcom Pod. I always want to say towers, but I am in a cellar. So the Comcom Pod bunker, that's a bit kind of terrifying, isn't it? What about the whole? Or the pod? No, pod's overused. Come on, what's it going to be? Answers on a ComCompost card, please. God, let's get out of this. Time to delve into the archives. This time, it's episode 380. with wonderful Ellie Taylor. She's brilliant and funny and wonderful, where we are going to discuss Ellie's unique introduction to comedy via a reality show. Heavily Wiggles Eyebrows, for those in the know. We'll find out how her happy life

outside of comedy protects her. I've got one of them now too. God, it's good. The weird science of writing and why she can't do clever topics. Interested to listen back to that. Wonder how I feel differently. Seven years on.

Here's Ellie Taylor from back in 2019. You said during Show Me the Funny, I talked about doing this podcast. Yes. So I remember, yeah, I just remember, I can't remember if I want to train me, you and Tiff, Stevenson, and you were talking about you had this idea for this podcast where you'd interview other comics. And I was like, yeah, that sounds really interesting. Like, as a new comic, I was like, I'd love to, yeah, I'd listen to that. Let's talk about that.

I mean, we never get to talk about it on this, and I don't like talking about it myself. But I didn't very much enjoy it. For the benefit of people who are not familiar with this, I've described it once or twice before. Tell us what it was in your way. I would describe it. I would say it was like an X factor for comedy on ITV that no one watched.

And it was hosted by Jason Manford. And it was 10 of us, 10 comics. And each week we would have to sort of go to a specific situation or location. So one week we'd go to Liverpool. One week we'd hang out with soldiers. You'd hang out with that group of people for a few days. And then you'd write. The premise was the comedians would write five minutes, new material,

and then perform it in front of those people, so Liverpoolian women or soldiers, in front of a panel of judges. Now, when I say that, if I had to do that now, I would shit myself. Okay. But because I'd only be going less than a year, you know, I was still in a full-time job.

I didn't have been paid for a job, and I quit my job to do this show. And the idea of the pressure, now knowing that how weird you would never do new material on television like it was such a bonkers weird false format that it would I would find it very scared I mean I did I was scared when I did it I'm lost a lot of weight through pooping because it was just it was terrifying it was quite terrifying but now I think knowing what I know would be a different sort of

terrifying there'd be more sort of to lose but I think because I was so new I was I was lucky in that I got to play the underdog card, which I did, and it worked, it worked well. Yes, because you weren't even like a struggling new act. Or not, I'm not struggling, but there were people on it who were in their first couple of years who had done the odd pay gig who were sort of a comic now. Yeah, I'd never been paid. I was still, yeah, I quit my job in marketing. Someone just told me about these auditions on the circuit for this, this TV show. I was like, I'll give it a game. Had you done? How many gigs had you done by that point? I could probably, I can't remember now, but I would have been able to count them by number at that point.

Yeah, I had to sort of go, I had to say you can have a long lunch break to go to this weird audition in the middle of the day. We're in the comedy pub, you know that near the comedy store? Yes. Yeah, there was that a downstairs basement and they had to do like five minutes topical material in the daytime to other comedians doing this track gig and some producers. It was awful. And then sort of these different stages of getting through to the show and then having to make the decision of whether I should quit my job and do it because I would have to quit, you know, to the time commitment meant I had to come in. And what were you doing? What was your job in marketing at the time?

Corporate marketing events for CNN. Okay. So quite different. What does corporate marketing events entail? What are you doing? Or like organizing trips, golf trips to Abu Dhabi for advertising clients. Okay. Organising parties, that kind of.

Okay. So you were employed by CNN. It's a job job. Yeah. No, proper job. So very different. So when I sort of sent out, you know, Ellie's leaving or what is she moving, oh, she's going to do a TV show about being a stand-up comedian.

and everyone was like, what the, where is this come from? I think everyone thought I was bananas. Apart from my family. My family didn't. And my boyfriend at times, he's now my husband. They were really cool about it. He's always really backed me for somebody. He's always had way more confidence in my abilities than I have.

And he's always, when I started, so I basically did my first gig because I started going out with him and he was 10 years older than me. And, you know, an international correspondent. and really successful and, you know, cool and older and, you know, all of those things. And I was just sort of a silly little girl who worked in marketing. So I thought, I'd try some stand-up. I did one gig. And he was like, oh, that's really cool.

You should do that again. And I just thought I'd do one gig ticket off the list sort of thing. But just to sort of impress him, I carried on doing it. What an idea. Yeah, I know. I know. It's nuts, isn't it? What a message to give to my daughter.

Just choose your career by impressing a man. But yeah, so when it came to having to quit my job, he always was like, for him, it was always been an absolute no-brainer that, of course, I should go into stand up, which is mental. But he's great, he's great, he's still like that now. Did you have, when you said, tick it off,

did you have any kind of designs on comedy as a younger kid? Did you have any, were you funny? Yeah, well, you sort of, I think people, you obviously have different roles with the different friendship groups or different tribes that you hang around with. Within my family, I was always considered the funny one. Since I was little, oh, Elis, she's so funny. She's so silly.

And because she was silly. I was silly, yeah. Tell us about funny. Yeah, silly. So I'm the youngest. It's me and my sister. I've got an older sister who's four years older than me. And apparently I was always funny.

And maybe, I don't know, maybe I've lived up to that because that's what was projected onto me. I don't know. But my mum would always say, like, if I was a bit naughty and I get sent upstairs, I would come downstairs and do something funny. Like, I'd put a pillow on my head and walking backwards, like, just, you know, to try and shake things up a bit, I suppose. to shift the mood. And my mum's very silly. I think that silliness was always really encouraged with me at home. But now I never had designs on stand-up.

I've always performed, I've always acted, and I've always really enjoyed writing silly things, funny things. But I never put them together until I stole a friend of mine. So I was probably 22, 23, and I saw of, I know, older, it was older than that, probably up 25 then and I saw a friend of mine do stand up and I'd been to university with her and we'd been in we'd done the same course and we'd been in the same plays and I thought oh if you can do that I can do that it was it never occurred to me before is that as something that I could do so from that moment I put my name down and then I wrote my set and then I did it but having I

think I'd been to one comedy night I think I'd be yeah one stand-up live comedy night and it was in the the downstairs of the Thistle Hotel in Leicester Square was that in key Jones not? Yes. All him all night and that's my only experience of live comedy. Okay. Never really watched that much.

Like now I look back and I'm just so, it's so arrogant and I suppose it's just it's more, maybe more ignorant. I don't know that I thought I could do it when I hadn't really seen any of it. It's very odd. Inventing it for yourself is a really good way to start. In a way, yeah, the slate is clean, isn't it?

So, but yes, it's not all. A very odd way into it all. And so let's just talk, let's just stay with showing funny just for it saying one of the frustrations i had was that i kept wanting to say to the judges who were professional comedians you wouldn't do this you wouldn't do new stuff and kind of touched on it there yeah but that sort of um that naivety that you had like you said you were you were able to be the underdog and you were also um you you were you were you scared of it were you scared of the challenge of doing it or did you feel like i've got nothing to lose i think i felt a bit of

I knew, I suppose I was smart enough to know to play on that underdog card and very much use that. And I did. Because, you know, I've seen enough reality TV to be aware of anything you say in the talking heads. Like, just you're always on. If there's a microphone on you, you are always on. So just be aware of that. That's really interesting. I had seen next to no reality TV.

If I were to do it again now, having watched 11 seasons of drag notes. I wouldn't do it But if I did It'd be a very different approach And I suppose I can't remember But I imagine my husband Who's worked in TV forever Probably would have

Give me a good pep talk or two Beforehand as well So you went into it with a sense of playing the game I knew you have to create your narrative To some point And the narrative was kind of there And it was genuine I hadn't really done any gigs

Didn't really know what I was doing So But I don't know Sometimes I wonder if I had it I did have it easier or harder Because I know other people, the premise was new material. Yes, twice now that you've said it wasn't about new material.

The premise was. The premise was new material. And that's the thing. Now, I had to play by the rules because I had no material. I couldn't use. I didn't have years. I had nothing. So every week, I genuinely did do new material.

And only in hindsight now, I'm like, well, of course the others wouldn't have the whole time. You'd be an idiot if you've got all these bankers that you wouldn't roll out. I was that idiot. to me it was incredibly important that we did the challenge by the rules and then it was like and you know I remember a conversation

actually we had a conversation in Liverpool with the producers and they were like well you can use and you were like hang on that's not what the show's about that's not what we signed up to yeah yeah yeah but still at that point

I'm like well I still don't have anything so I can't I can't sort of flout those roles I don't have anything so a clean slate like a blank slate right there the enjeune and an understanding of narrative that you have to create a sort of thing.

Maybe I'm making myself seem more clever than I am. Maybe in hindsight I'm building it. I don't know. I think in my head, that's, I think I was quite aware. Just knowing that everything you say while the camera's rolling could be used, even if you stop for a second and kind of do an aside. Just knowing that is an enormous. I mean you're Machiavellian.

It doesn't mean you're pulling the strings of anything. Just to know that, I think is really important. And do you think, had that, had that, show not come along, you'd have kept, you'd have kept gigging? Yeah, I think so. Because you've done enough to know this is really fun. Yeah. And did you, did you have a sense? As someone who's worked in marketing, that always, that's very interested to me, because in the first 10 years of my career, I had no concept of marketing and it felt like a dirty word. It was like, as applied to stand up. Yeah. I think of you now as someone who

has a very confident brand. Oh, do you? Yeah, I do. And I don't mean that to be insulting. I probably, if I'd say that sentence six, seven years ago, I wouldn't have said it. But I feel like you really know who you are and what you're projecting and who are you talking to. That's so funny because I feel totally the opposite. Do you? Do you? Do you? Or is this you wielding a narrative?

I think, you know, you've got to find your voice. I still don't really feel like I know what that is. Really. If I think of a topic, I'm like, how do I approach it? I don't know. I don't know how I approach it. What do you know about your voice? I suppose I know what I enjoy. I enjoy being silly.

I enjoy doing like overacting and doing silly faces and silly voices. For the benefit of the listener, Ellie's doing a very convincing vehicle reversing noise. Sorry, so being silly, overacting. Yeah, silly faces, silly voices. Oh pretty, it's all like quite clowny really, I suppose. I enjoy talking about, I enjoy it and I have to talk about myself because I am not clever enough to be, you know, to go delve deep into politics. For instance, that's really not my bag.

Whenever I try, it just, it just doesn't naturally fit, I would say, for me. So yeah, my stuff is always autobiographical and always pretty light and breezy. Whenever I've tried to make a point, I've never been able to. How do you feel doing something like Mock the Week when there's like a kind of topical feel to it? Yeah, that's when I have to be, I have to get my head in gear to, you know, I have to be, you know, I watch the news and I'm, you know, I read the papers and stuff. But I'm not in it and I'm not, you know, I'm not as satirist, you know, I'm aware of that about myself. So I have to sort of knuckle down and the week before I'll sort of just prick my ears up a bit and try and be a bit more on it. but then there are other elements of that show that I

say maybe the political stuff wouldn't naturally be something that I would super enjoy but then there's always the lighter stories which are always good fun and at the end the scenes we'd like to see so you know scenes with things you never hear in a horror movie for instance that kind of stuff I really love because it's just fun and again it's silly and it's kind of goofball licence isn't it? Yeah yeah yeah I really enjoy that bit

and in terms of um I'm trying not to say the brand again but I'm going to The brand, yeah. In terms of the brand, do you think that part of it is the interplay between the goofiness and the fact that you are a tall, attractive? Do you used to be a model? I did, yeah. Yeah, I felt like that.

So you're kind of model good looking, but being goofy and rangy and, you know, you've got a big mouth. And you're, you're doing fun shapes with your face. Do you think that's part of the... I don't know. Yeah, I suppose people wouldn't, if you say you used to be a model, they maybe have certain preconceptions about you. And when I think if people come, if that's all when someone knew about me and then they come to see my live show, people have mentioned, actually, other performers have mentioned, like, my physicality, which is something that I don't think they would naturally respect. You've got great spinery arms.

I'm very gangly. Oh, way to me, eyes and legs. But yeah, I really enjoy playing out. I enjoy being sort of, you know, a day and wool and turning weird. I like, I like all that sort of stuff. You have a good command of grotesquery. That's something I wrote down because I noticed a spell check on my phone didn't know, you didn't recognise the word, grotesquery, but it isn't worth. Do you know, someone said, I was doing an acting thing last week and someone said,

oh, you've got funny fingers. I was like, oh, I like that. Oh, yeah. Okay, okay. And that, I think that that is certainly lifted by the fact that you just purely, I think of you as something, you're in the kind of Joel Domit mold, really. you know, this person is so attractive and confident that they don't need to do stand-up comedy. He's kind of a, like, no one was attractive doing comedy in the 90s.

Sorry, 90s comedians. There were people who were former models doing comedy in the 90s. Right. I don't know. Do you know what? I do find interesting is that quite often if I talk about people, they're often bringing up the modelling thing. And I don't know. I think it's still, for some reason, it seems confounding that, you know,

You know, an all right looking girl can also be funny. For some reason, that seems quite, I don't know, people can't seem to get their head around it. And I'm like, oh my God, I like model for a bit and I put makeup on. Like it's really, I don't know why that's so jarring with the fact that I might be a good stand-up. As to why I ended up doing stand-up, I suppose I don't look at it from an appearance point of view, I don't look at it, but I do wonder why I've ended up doing stand-up when I've had such a lovely life. because I've got a wonderful relationship with my parents and my sister wonderful time at school, really enjoyed it, did very well.

University, fantastic, got first, smashed it. I've done, I've been so lucky in my life. I do not understand why I'm clearly something, what in me needs this weird approval in this painful, awful job. Is it painful and awful? Yes, it is. What are the painful bits? I just find it so hard.

I have such a love-hate relationship with stand-up. Like, it destroys me, but when it goes well, it's wonderful and magical. Yeah, I really struggle with my relationship with stand-up because, like, I'm writing a new show at the moment, and I think maybe it's the thought of having to write a new hour, is more horrible than the actual act of it. Once I get down to writing it

and I get down to previewing it, there are points, as you know, that can be the most fun bit, can't it? Like, when you're playing around and you're playing with ideas and you're sort of shifting things around. But, I don't know, there are times like in Edinburgh, I hate Edinburgh.

So not for me. There's so many aspects of comedy that are not for me. Don't like working evenings. Don't like work in weekends. find myself really bad at holding conversations to other comics because?

I just, I always, I've always felt like I don't belong and I've always thought people don't think that I belong and I think it's because also when I started sound up I had such a, like I said,

I've got, you know, good relationship with my family, had a lovely, solid group of friends, was going out with my now husband, I had every part, I didn't need anyone else so I didn't hang out. I didn't, you know,

you know, new comics start and they form and they, you know, go to gigs and they sort of really grow up together. I never did that because I would do a gig and go home because I didn't need anything. And I was also working a day job as well, so you just, you know, get on with that life. So I don't think I ever really grounded myself in the circuit like some people, a lot of people do. And I just think it's just the Edinburgh small talk is, I find I get so socially anxious.

Like it drives me the idea of walking down a road and seeing other comics and you're having to stop and talk to them. I can't like I'm I cringe inside all I think is how I can get out of the conversation I hate it and I think I just feel intimidated I feel like I don't belong um yeah and like like a green room would be is my worst nightmare sometimes presumably you are now in those situations green rooms I think now I feel better because I when I it feels like my peers so for instance when I would when I first when I first did mock the week I suppose I didn't really the people on the show, but having worked with them a few times,

it's just generally, it obviously gets less scary, and you feel increasingly like you belong. I'm always more happy when you're familiar with something, but everyone is. But yeah, I find, oh, I just find, I find that aspect of comedy tricky, the people. Is that because comedians are broadly awful?

No, no, I wouldn't like to say that. I mean, some of them are, but parts of every group are awful. I think it's my, it's my insecurities. And I think, you know, when I get in, I don't know, like a car share with people talking about, oh, do you remember that, oh, that Bill Hicks bit about whatever and, oh, that Monty Python sketch.

I'm like, like I said, I just sort of burst into comedy so I could show up to my husband. I don't have this encyclopedic knowledge. And I feel like that's a, I don't have that, I don't have anything to offer in that regard. So I just sort of sit there mute thinking, oh, God. And that's why I suppose that I sort of undenies the fact that I feel like I don't, I don't belong.

Just massive imposter syndrome. It's so interesting because I feel all those things. I feel like I don't belong. Are you kidding? Oh, 100%. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, partly that's where this podcast originated from was A, wanting to learn how to be a better comedian. Yeah.

And B, wanting to kind of, what's the word, wrought? What's the other, what's the sense of, what's the present tense of wrought? I don't know. Can't be right, can I? To, to reek, is it reek? I think it's reek. Go on. To create some sort of community, some sense of community because I felt so rootless.

Oh, really? Yeah, absolutely. At Edinburgh, I, um, I had my street performer buddies, which in themselves were an attempt to ring a community from a ring, reek, I don't know it, to get a sense of community. And that's really interesting. But I feel some of those things that you're talking about, the social anxiety. I think all of us, most of us feel like impasters, surely. Where do you think that comes from, in your case, as someone who had a great family life and a great schooling and all this thing?

I think generally in life I'm quite socially anxious. So that's just sort of a natural effect of that. But also, I wonder if it's because the, the way I went into comedy, because I got onto telly very quickly, before I was ready, I was getting booked for gigs after Show Me the Funny. Not like amazing ones, but ones I wasn't ready to do yet. You know, I remember getting booked a few months after that, getting booked to do half an hour corporate?

Like, as we've established, I had no material. So God knows what I said. I wouldn't want to do a half an hour corporate now. And I've been going nine years. So it was that kind of thing. I suppose that maybe knocked me back a bit. it because I was doing things before you're ready is not good. And were you crashing and burning at them?

Not always, but sometimes I did and it really shook me. It really did. Like I remember I did, oh, I got booked to do eight out of ten cats quite early on. And to be fair, actually, I went through the proper audition process and I did all the, you know, the run-throughs and stuff. But I got to the live show and my agent, I was like, I said, I would, I would, other people get writers, do I need writers? And they, actually, that's not true. I don't think they said that. Basically, no one told me that other people get writers.

Maybe you should get a writer. It was your first panel show. No one told me that. So I, which is sounds so stupid now, but I went and I didn't, you know, other people had stuff prepared. I had stuff prepared, but it was all stuff that I'd written, which was fine, but I didn't have any other help. No one who'd done a panel show to help, you know, to guide me. And I'm sure lots of other people don't, but for me, I think I could have really done with that. And I think just even walking onto, the TV set, the set of 8 out of 10 cats, and in the studio and there's all the people and

the lights and it was, I was like, oh shit, this is terrifying and I did not feel ready. And I remember I did it and I did fine, but I remember in the halfway mark, like, that was a break or something, Jimmy Carr came up to him and said, are you all right? And I was like, oh, fuck, he's seen that I'm not doing very well and that's what he's suggesting. And then that really threw me after that. I was like, oh, God, I don't know. I just think the rest of it was a blur. And that kind of thing really scarred me.

Because I just felt like I felt like I was shit. I felt like I'd been shit and I was shit on this new job. And then I was suddenly, I'd quit this grown-up job to do Show Me the Funny. And then Show Me the Funny finished and I was just suddenly alone all day in the house. I didn't know what to do. And now I'm lucky enough that I work a lot. so I'm not sitting around in my pants all the time but at that point I didn't have the work coming in

I was just there hoping that it would do I think got a bit depressed at that point because it was very different going from a 9 to 5 to suddenly being a stand-up comedian when I'd never been paid for a gig so yeah I think maybe my formative stand-up years scarred me and maybe that's given me more imposter syndrome than yeah than I would have had otherwise

I wonder given that you are You're definitely a whatever the opposite of an important You're a poster now You're in the gang You're hosted the Apollo No I know this is the thing And I sometimes think to myself

I'm like oh I don't know if I can do it Oh I don't know why I've got that job And then I'm like Hang on a minute At some point I have to just look at what I've done And be like Don't be a dick Like you've done all of

Look what you did last year You had an amazing year last year Yeah you host it That was my aim I said at the beginning of year I want to host live at the Apollo. I want to do it pregnant. That was my aim. And I did it. And it went really well. But sometimes I did, and I just had a great year. And I just, sometimes I forget that. And you sort of lose where you are in the day to day or you have a bad,

I didn't, I'm free if you didn't go well, I'm an awful job. I can't do this. I just want to work in Cafe Nero. And then I do have to remind myself. I think everyone could do with that, just looking back on your past achievements. Sometimes I go to do I give out Gold Duke of Edinburgh awards Why do I do that So I can take my family to Buckingham Palace Sure

But when you're there And you're giving out awards To these teenagers who are very disappointed You're not someone from Game of Thrones You have to give a speech And in a speech The kids don't give a shit But I always get quite emotional

Because I'm sort of speaking to kids Who are like 18 to 20 And I sort of talk about It's meant to be like an inspirational speech So I talk about what I've done and how I got there. And it always makes me go, it makes me a bit emotional because I'm like, oh, I've done really well. That's on me. And there's a quote in it.

I think it's Oprah. I can't fucking remember it is. But it's the best indicator of the future is the past. And I think that is so true. And I think if ever I have doubts about my abilities, I do just have to look and go, look all the things you've done. You can do this. You can do this. you do this, stop being a dick.

But I also wonder if me panicking and flapping about my abilities, my agent said this, maybe it's part of my process. Maybe I have to flap. Maybe I have to say, I can't do this, I can't do this. That's just a stage I have to go through before I get that all out of my system, and then I do it, and it's fine. Do you, does that seem like a sort of life sentence though? Yeah.

Oh, it's part of my process. I'm good. So I'm going to feel like this every year. I think I tell my husband that, and he was like, are you fucking good? He despairs because he has to give me the same. sort of motivational talks, you know, just on repeat. And I think he just, he can't bear my worry and flapping and anxiety. And he's just like, I don't know where it comes from.

Just get a grip and get on with it. Poor guy. It's quite horrible being married to a comic, I think. You, I think, you're from Brentwood. And you, I think, combine a sort of, I'm not going to use the term Essex. girl, but you're from Essex. Yes.

And you've got great material about going out with your mates, drinking too much. Do you mean you've got like almost in the way that Mickey Flanagan combines I'm erudite, but I'm also, you know, a former Billingsgate fish market porter. Right, right. Do you mean there's like you can play to both audiences? Do you, do you recognize in the people that come to see you, do you recognize they are a particular type of person? Or is it across the world? Do you know, it's such a mix now.

because I've done so many different things and I do so many different things. It's a real mix. So I'll have people who used to watch Snogmarry Void, like a makeover show I did years ago. Then I'll have people who will have seen me on something like Apollo or the Mash Report or Radio 4 stuff. So there's a real mix.

And I did a show, could I say an awful show? It was an awful show. And that's an example of saying yes to things when you're offered and you shouldn't have. that's another thing that I have learned along the way but you have learned that because you had the opportunity like whenever anyone says you shouldn't say yes to things I remember Phil Jupiter saying if you want to be on telly

you've got to be one of the people who's on telly so you've got to say yes to everything on telly because then you're one of the people that's on tell yeah yeah I get that I get that and people always say you were on your deathbed you'll regret the things you didn't do rather than the things you did I don't know if that's true in regards to awful panel shows but

I forgot what we were talking about. You were talking about the audience? Oh yes. So yeah, a real mix of people. I think now it's interesting you say about going out and drinking friends and stuff. I suppose that was probably from a few years ago. And now I think as a comic you have to sort of go through, you go through material as you grow up. So you go initially, you sort of have to, everything gets washed out.

So you do stuff about what you look like, where you come from, that gets washed away. and then you sort of, you know, you delve deeper and deeper and deeper, don't you, into stuff? And then, like, so I've spoken about wanting to get married, I've spoken about being married, I've spoken about if I want a baby, and now I'm at the point where I've had a baby, and my new show's about being a mum.

So, yeah, I suppose it's just part of the process. So now it won't be about going out and drinking with friends because I just sit at home and watch flog it. Sure, but I suppose what I mean is you are the stuff you talk about. Like, for all that you say, you feel like an outsider. Right. I feel like you talk about very relatable things. Right.

But I think that's because I don't have the ability to talk about anything more erudite. I can't, you know, as much as I would love to be as clever as niche, I can't be. You know, that's not to stop my thing. So it's not like I'm, it's not like a really, a smart choice for me to talk about relatable things that's what I've got.

I suppose, well, I feel like I'm halfway towards what I'm getting at. I think you are an incredibly, relatable person to a mass audience. Right. Do you know what? In the way that I feel like I'm not. Really? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Because I like jokes about mantichores. And if I want to tell a joke about a manticoor, which is a mythological creature, I first have to explain what a manticor is. Do you know what I mean? So I feel like I'm, I feel like an outsider to the world, probably in a different way than you feel like an outsider.

Right, right. I don't know quite what point I'm making. But I think you're like, I, Do you find in your writing process that you are making decisions based on what you think they'll go for? No. Or are you making decisions purely about what you want to talk about? Yeah, me.

I have to be me. I would never, yeah, I can, again, I'm not clever enough to second guess what people may or may not like. I think my process is write it all down and see what shit sticks. And I have to write a lot of shit before anything sticks. Like, I think, I just, I, what I love about the way I do write and the thing I despair at the same time is that every time I write, I go, oh, this is so good. This is the best. And then, of course, I go and try it out. And 75 to 80% of it is absolute rubbish.

But at the time of writing it, you obviously, you only write it if you think it's good. And I think that's, in a way, that's really sweet that I still have that hope. really misplaced hope. But yeah, I don't. I still, I would have thought by now my radar would be sharper for what is a good joke and what isn't a good joke. And I still don't think that's very, as sharp as I would like it to be. And there were still bits that I find people find really funny and I don't really understand why. Go on, give us an example.

I can't, no, you say, I can't think of anything. But then there's, you know, just the way some intonation will change something. And you're like, well, why is that? Well, you laugh. I don't know, fine. We'll go with that if it's money. it's just a bit of a weird, I don't know, science project sometimes, isn't it? You said there that one of the things you love about writing

and it suddenly struck me that, gosh, we rarely talk about on the podcast. It really comes up the phrase the love of writing. You know, a lot of people either regard it as a job at which they have to be efficient or sort of a tragic consequence of the lifestyle they want to live. I think I'm more like one of those. Like I don't really, I don't feel. feel like I love writing. I feel like I struggle with it. It's almost like I've decided, oh, life's a struggle and writing comedy is a struggle. Yeah. And you, it's really sort of

refreshing and, uh, it's kind of almost painful to hear someone talk about loving writing. Yeah, but that again, it's, it's, uh, it's one, the idea of writing, like having, I have to sit down and write a new show, that's horrible and, you know, hangs over me like a cloud. But once I get down to it, if I get in the right zone, if my phone's in another room at points I've unplugged the Wi-Fi. I put apps on my computers to block sites that I will just dick around on for hours. If I get into that, it takes me a long time to get into that. Again, part of my process is twatting around for hours, probably, going on Facebook. Oh, I need to order a new set of curtains. I'll do it. That's perfect time to do that now. Once I get

that all out of the system and I get into writing, I do enjoy it. I do really enjoy it. Well, I enjoy more than, I probably enjoy more purely writing things like, like, I suppose, like, if I could write, I'd love to write a book. That's the written word I really enjoy and I love playing with language and I think I'm, I wonder if I'm better. I don't know, I just think writing, writing to be read as opposed to writing to perform. It's got to be easier, isn't it? That's what I think. I'm right, the hit rate doesn't have to be as high. You could just be vaguely amusing.

I'd love to be vaguely amusing for life. I really enjoy that. I've always enjoyed language and, yeah, and playing with it. And I think that's me and my husband, we sort of courted over email. And again, he's a journalist. He loves words. And I think we fell in love with writing with each other's words and playfulness and stuff with that kind of thing. So it's a big part of me.

So, yeah, I do enjoy that bit. But, yeah, just the hit rate is not as high as I would like. Do you have any other kind of like tips or not tricks so much, but kind of like little things you do to pick yourself back up when it's not working or systems, anything like that, that you've found particularly useful? On stage, do you mean? In general.

In the writing process. I've always got, I always have, as often people will say, they'll have notes on their phone. If they hear something funny, see something funny, just jot it down. And that's always really useful because even if you've got no ideas, you can just sort of go through there and there and there be something.

I think going back to old stuff can be quite interesting sometimes as well to sort of sparkling ideas. of that or developing stuff you've never quite managed. And on stage, I think if things, I think, first of all, things never go as badly as you think and things never go as great as you think. If you listen back, I record my previews, so I'll always listen back, which is very painful. And again, I will put that off for as long as I can. But once I'm in it, it is so helpful. And I think if you really want to progress,

you have to. For me, anyway, I know some people, they would hate to do it and they wouldn't. But I'm very, I was always a very good student and I think that's how I approach stand-up. So I will write it down. I will practice it like, you know, hairbrush and mirror. I will practice it. And I will listen back and I will make notes. And I sort of approach it like an essay, I suppose, really. And I try and I love, this sounds the driest thing ever in regards to comedy.

But I really, I really enjoy the sort of formatting. Like I like, I like structure. I love structure. I love working out. how that's all going to link up, how it's all going to be cyclical, how that callback can pull that in. And when everything's tied up neatly at the end, I get real satisfaction from that.

So I think that's how I approach it. But I know that's very different to other comics. So a lot of, you know, my friends in comedy will be like they write on stage. Just take that idea of them. Just have a play with it on stage. Terrifying. I find that. I would never do that.

Never, never do that. I'm trying to be increasingly more free. with the previews I'm doing for this show. I do a lot of work with Robin Morgan, who's a great comic, he's a great writer, and we've done some double-bill previews together, and I'll go on first, sort of saying my stuff. And I'm in the first few, I'd had, you know, loads of time off,

well, not loads, a few months off having my baby. And so I hadn't been on stage stage, and I was very sort of rigid, and I was holding my notes, and I was mic and mic and stand, which I never usually don't usually hold the mic. So if my mics are standing, you're holding notes, immediately I can't use the physicality that I enjoy so it feels it's weird anyway

I just felt very silted I really didn't enjoy it and I sort of stayed to watch Robin and he uses his previews in such a clever way that I've never thought of before I think sometimes I get in my brain how something should be and I'm like oh you're allowed to do previews and a different of course you are so the way he does it

and the way I'm increasingly trying to do it is literally like sort of he's just if something doesn't work he references how awful it is if something does work, he sort of, oh, do you like that bit? Oh, does anyone, oh, can anyone think of any examples about that? Do you ever do? He uses, it's like crowdsourcing it.

And it makes it so much more fun and free. If you don't give as much of a shit, if I'm not tired staring at a bit of paper, I enjoy it more. And it's such a cliche, isn't it? But if I enjoy it more, everyone enjoys it more. We all have a better time if it's freer. And they've been really joyful since I've tried to sort of stop being so anal about it.

I've enjoyed it more. And I think I could probably try and do that a bit more in my stand-up life. I think I find a much fear on Instagram stories, which is actually something I really enjoy. If I could have a whole career out of digging around on Instagram stories, that I would really enjoy. I've seen some of your Instagram stories. And I think it as much as I understand how to view an Instagram story. I feel like there's a thing I'm saying. The way you use Instagram, you seem to have a really,

innate, like a native grasp of Instagram. I'm good at Instagram. I'm not good at Twitter. Tell me what it means to you to be. What do you mean you're good at Instagram? I just think I enjoy it. Again, I enjoy it. So I'm happy to play around with it. I think Twitter just seems a bit scary. I don't want to get involved in that. Thanks very much, too much. Instagram is just fun and I feel like I can be silly. It encourages my silliness and I enjoy it. I get a bit too into it sometimes and I'm going to delete it off periodically. just to give myself a break.

But yeah, I just really enjoy it. And I think it's a good way, I mean, it's a good, in a cynical way, it's a good marketing platform because it's literally you're shouting about yourself. But it's just a good way to engage with people. And I think you can see, it's funny, you can see the way I have it set up because I don't know what, I'm a business or whatever on it,

you can see how many people follow you and how many people unfollow you. And when I first got that, I used to get a bit dishearsed me. I did that post and 47 people unfollowed me. But then I increasingly just try and think of it as, it's just streamlining. So the people who stay with you really want to hear stuff and see your stuff.

Because when I had my baby for a while when I was at home, I did a lot of stuff about having a baby because guess what? That's what I was doing? You know what I mean? I had nothing else. So I felt a bit like, oh God, I'm doing too much baby stuff. And I'm like, no, this is your life. If people don't like it, they'll unfollow you and that's fine.

It's like if you send out a mail shot to your mailing list. I don't get on to be on subscribe. And you just think that's great. You don't want to be marketing people who don't want to be interested in listening to you. So I try and think of it like that now. Something else I've noticed just having a quick glance over your Instagram feed is that there is a really interesting and I suppose very contemporary thing going on at the moment

of you being very glamorous and sparkling on TV or looking great in things and then kind of like no makeup, no filter kind of stuff of you being really real. and I think that's part of, that's a part of your persona that you wield really well. Do you mean? Because there is like, there is some distance between those things. You can go, this is my public face, this is my private face, and there's a big difference between them.

Yeah. And I suppose that's what the internet feeds off. Yeah. Do you think? I think people increasingly like, what's the word? well, things that are genuine. So if I, you know, I don't have makeup on every day and I look like shit a lot of the time.

And I'm not going to, I'd say 80% of my Instagram stories are in my red fleecy dressing gown. That's just what it is. And I like that stuff. I'm not, I don't care if people see me. I don't, I'm not that bothered about, well, I'm not bothered about the brand

of being some glamorous lady on the telly because I'm not that most, most of my life. That's the absolute exception when I fake eyelashes on. And I'm very happy. not, you know, to not pretend that that's real the whole time. But do you think that's almost, that's the brand, isn't it? Like, that's a successful thing on Instagram is to go, hey guys, I'm not inverted commas the brand. Right, right, right.

I'm real. That's the brand. Yeah, and I don't mean that in a disingenuous way, but I think that the brand is, I am a sassy, you know, girl in the world with fake eyelashes. Yeah. And also, this is, did you say fake eyelashes? Yeah, I don't know. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not.

accusing you. But I'm also revealing beneath that. It's actually, guys, it's just me. It's almost like with one, you're turning to the camera on one side and going, hello world. Right. And you're turning to Instagram on the other side

and saying, hello world. Right. And that's the brand nowadays. Right. Do you think? Yeah, maybe. Maybe. I hadn't thought about it like that.

I suppose I hadn't thought about that bit of me being relatable as... Because that's what you do on stage as well. You come on looking super glam in your glitzy top. Yeah. And then you do a kind of spy making kind of... Yeah, like that grotesquery, or talking about that stuff you did about having a pap smear.

Oh, right, yeah. Which is, again, it's like one of those things. You can't, I can't really imagine a British comic talking about that 20 years ago. Right, yeah. You feel like a very contemporary comedian. Right. In that you are attractive and TV ready and kind of, I don't just mean TV ready, but you mean you're glamorous, is that I think what I'm saying,

in a way that not that many other, I suppose, is Catherine Ryan, And who were the other kind of glamorous female comedians? I think they all... Us women have to glam up annoyingly for telly a lot of the time. I just remember where some of this comes from. During Show Me the Funny, we had a conversation about... Oh, you, there was some... You were given feedback by a judge about needing to dress down.

Do you remember that? Yeah, or someone said I wouldn't wear... Yeah, I wore heels. I can't remember who it was. One of the judges, one of the celebrity judges and whoever they were said... Yeah. I can't remember what it was. Something came up, but I remember us talking about it, because I think someone had said if you want to get,

you know, you don't want to intimidate the women in the audience by being too attractive. Right. And you were going to, you know, justifiably have the hunt with them. Right. Yeah, I can't remember. I remember, I think it was Joe, I think it was Joe Brown, said that she was worried about my heel.

I was wearing high heels. Okay. I think that was what that was. But yeah, I mean, yeah, women dressing for standoff is another whole different cut of fish. I've gone through stages where I've, like, actively try to dress down and then now,

I'll, you know, if I'm at a tour show, I'll dress up because I'm like, it's a night, it's a night out. Why wouldn't you, I don't know, it's a whole lot of bollocks, isn't it? I just think the difference, there are still differences for men and women in the business. And, yeah, and I think, I don't know. Like I said, I think it's funny that people focus on how I look, how that, why that's even such a big topic in regards to whenever I talk to anyone. I think that's weird.

And I think that, you know, all the girls on telly dress up, you know, everyone always looks gorgeous on Mock the Week because they've had hair and makeup and they have to go and buy a nice outfit because you have to. It's just you can't just buy a shirt because it's just different pressures. And you like, yeah, Sarah Pasco always looks gorgeous. Steve Stevenson, Angela Barnes was it's lovely. Like everyone has to put on, you put on the slap because you're going on telly. It's really annoying when you have to buy a new outfit. I suppose I posted something on the Comcom Facebook group recently about I'm doing two TV spots abroad later on this year and I've got no idea what to wear and I freak out every fucking time about what time. And on this Facebook post I did there was like 150 comments which I haven't, I'm too scared to look at it.

Right. I haven't properly got to grips with it because everyone's got an opinion and I'm sure they're all super helpful. I've kind of glanced at it. But I feel like it's wanted a job on my list now. So sit down and look at everyone's advice because I feel so disempowered by it. A couple of people who said, get your colours done. And I've had to go, what does that mean? Oh my God.

That sounds so 80s. Well, I think it's something to do with a colour chart with someone, do you know what that is? I've only heard of it from like magazines from the 80s. Oh, fine. Okay, maybe I shouldn't worry about that. Okay. But I, so I think the thing is I find it very disempowering. And it's quite a weird thing.

I feel a bit funny admitting it because as a man I'm not supposed to, I think I'm not supposed to care or it's not supposed to come up. Yeah. Well, it's another concern. It's a weird concern, isn't it? When you're on telly, your jokes aren't enough. You have to look a certain way, partly to feel good enough to do your jokes well.

Yeah. Like you said, if you go on stage and you know you look good and you feel good. It's another thing you've got to worry about. Yeah, for sure. If you've got a haircut that was done 10 days ago, so it doesn't look like a new haircut. Yeah, yeah. I learned that.

I was like, yeah, that's how I do. So what is your first thing? favourite bit that you've ever done? What's your bit that you are the most proud of? I really like the ending to my last show, which was, my last show was all about whether I should have a child or not. And it was just, it was, I felt it was really cute. I thought it was really sweet and quite moving for me. Again, this is like me talking to myself. I thought it was really moving and and it just had loads of callbacks I love an ending with the shit loads of callbacks so I found it very satisfying um that doesn't really help because it's not really a

specific thing I can talk about is it so but it was satisfying in that kind of homework kind of way yeah I suppose I did the the smear test bit that you spoke about earlier I liked because it had a point for once kind of loosely and it was uh funny yeah I do like sort of kind of making people feel I'm a bit uncomfortable. I enjoy that bit. Why? I don't know. I usually pick on a guy in the audience and through the way through the show.

They're the person I'm sort of, they're my stooge. I just enjoy that. I mean, it's power. I don't know. Just being mean, isn't it? But it's always quite good. It's not mean. It's playful.

But I do enjoy that. And I've always enjoyed, I did a bit, actually, in my last show about, I read out the comments that people had put under my Apollo. is it or some one's something done on telly and there's just the the comments are I mean I think oh it's not that bad things are moving on in the world and I look at that and I go holy shit no they're not this is horrific so yeah I don't I try not to look at those but yeah I did a bit where I sort of read out I mean it's a bit arguably hacked in the readout

comments that kind of thing but I've it always worked really well and I found it really funny quite cathartic I suppose because you because it's kind of using someone's ammunition we get it's like throwing the grenade back before it goes off yeah yeah just the shit people would write um that's always quite funny and was that in fact i thought i might have seen that bit was it about the comments underneath the viral baby wine phone oh no that's a different one yeah that was a good one so i did a bit about um the non-motherhood challenge so instead of um putting up four photos that made you proud to be a mum this is before as a mum i did four photos that made me proud not to be a mother and it was just me cuddling wine basically uh yeah and sort of dissecting that's really good

It's funny, isn't it? I get real satisfaction from when you get a lovely bit. A lovely bit. I did a bit in my new show I'm working on at the moment. Which I'm very, all I can think about is have, I've just had a baby, but I'm just, she's seven months old now. So it's so difficult, I'm desperately trying to think of things that aren't baby related because I don't want the whole show to be about that. So I'm desperately trying to think of extra tangents. But there's, you know, some funny stuff happens to you when you had a baby. I said like, the story that I really like at the moment that I'm working on is I had

to express milk, so pump my boobs on a plane. And that happening next to a guy and the questions he was asking, just really funny. And I enjoy that, and that's all sort of coming together at the moment. And I'm enjoying, I'm trying to see how much you can sort of stretch it, how much you can get out of it. I enjoy that.

That's a real, real satisfaction now. And the, talk to me about the process of ringing all the bits out of... I think a lot of the time I worry about the truth. I'm like, well, that's not what happened. Initially, it's very truthful telling. and then it's like, oh, take out that bit. You know, it's just sort of, just imagine what,

take it to the nth degree, what could have happened. And I think sometimes I get a bit caught up in the truth. I think sometimes you have to be able to lie a bit or just imagine where it could have gone. Did you, there's a bit in your Netflix special. No, no, sorry, it's not Netflix. It was a bit on your Apollo sets when you were talking about having sex with your partner.

And you said, in my defense, there was nothing on Netflix and I finished all the biscuits. Yeah. And I struck me on my note that I said, I said to myself, this is necessary, right? Like, I wonder if because you are apparently a winner because you're tall, attractive, powerful, you know, and talking about sex,

do you need to slightly undercut your winnowness by kind of pointing out, oh, I don't have finished all the biscuits? Right. Do you see what I'm getting at? Right. Yeah, I suppose I do like undercutting things. things. All I'm thinking of when you said,

though, that was, it was my Netflix, but the real, I had to change it to be American. Okay. Because it was filmed in Canada, so it had to be international. So I think, I would usually say, I had sex,

there was nothing new on I play and I'd finish all the mini magnums, which is funnier, but didn't work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's safe for me. Yeah, and I'm like, but yeah, to find something that translates, it was tricky.

But what I mean is, like, there's the fun of undercutting an ideal. Yeah. But is there also, because you are apparently a winner. Do you feel like that? So that's part of... Like, I think that's something you do on stage quite a lot

is that when you... You almost... It's not apologising for it, but there are some comedians who look like Daniel Kitson, right? And they look like unusual and you can look at them as an audience and go, that person has suffered somehow. You know, most of...

Like, I think most comedians, they will exude some sort of... sense of life has done me wrong. Right. And then there are more and more comedies these days whereby they look like, hey, I had a great childhood. I'm a happy person. Do you know what I mean?

That division between those things. Seeing as you ostensibly fall very much into that second category, I wonder if that's a thing that you are aware of doing whereby you are needing to point out to us that you're not, you don't think you're all that. I don't think it's, it's, I don't think it's, I don't think it's that conscious. I think in general, I find being a bit self-depreciating. Have I said it right? I think it's self-deprecating. I always can never say that right. Self-deprecating. I find that

I've always found that funny and it's and it's and it's relatable. Like I wouldn't, it's much funnier. Like in my shows I quite often will refer to myself as a part-time feminist icon and I will say I'm a star of Channel 5's hit show. so Budgies make me laugh out loud. Like that is, which is true. It's funny and me... How can that be true? Oh, Stuart, they pay the mortgage. So it's funny than me saying, referencing that I've done,

Budges Make Me Laugh Out Loud, than it is saying on stage that I did a Netflix special, which you know what I mean? Like, it's funny to... That's funnier to show your vulnerability, to show the things that aren't the super shiny, starry things. I just think it's funnier. So why wouldn't you say it?

And if I do mention things, Like when I've done, I did my last show, I was talking about comments. And it was Love it at Polo because I spoke about Love at Apollo. But I would be it like, oh my God, I can't believe you brought that up. Oh, my God, so arrogant. I don't talk about it. Oh, but I've got some time. So, and then I'll go into it that way.

I think you have to, I don't know, from my point of view, I like to undercut it. Yeah, I suppose. You have to. You started saying you have to. Well, I think I have to. But not because it's, I just think you, as a human, you'd have to. I don't know. That's what I would, is comfortable for me.

maybe maybe it is it's like your body language now but that's weird isn't it but that's weird isn't it I don't know maybe it all comes down to not feeling again like an outside and stuff I'm wanting to deflect it all

don't look at me don't look at me I'm shy that sort of thing yeah I am still I'm still fascinated I suppose because because I feel like I sometimes look like a winner or seem like one of you know I don't mean a winner I just mean one of life's winners you know

I, like, you know, the image I project is a nice man. Do you know what I mean? And that's not very useful for comedy purposes. Right. But I'm interested in, I never know why, you know, clearly I overanalyze everything, but I'm interested in why do I feel the need to do this? And I think from a similar position, like if you would, like, I know, I have had, you know, mental health, what can I call it?

I've been on a mental health journey, you know, such that, I've been. profoundly unhappy and this doing comedy fixes it. Oh wow. Not all the time. But that's the thing that I am afforded dizzying highs as well as all of the self-doubt. Do you know what I mean? So that's like part of why I'm into it. But I'm still, I just come back to kind of like, why do you feel the need to put yourself

through the difficult bits? It can't just be the satisfaction of the homework being done well. Why do I stand up basically? Yeah. I don't know. I think, I don't know. I know at the beginning I started it because it was a way to, I was in a desk job that I didn't like,

and I felt like I'd let myself down. This is, I've always wanted to perform. This isn't what I wanted to do. How have I ended up here. So it was like a vent to show off. And to prove, to give myself self-worth, really, to prove to myself that I was more than, you know, ordering mouse mats. I had more to me.

And I got real satisfaction from that. And that's where it initially came from. And then I suppose it's tricky, isn't it? Because when a lot of people listen to this, well, no, when your hobby becomes your job or something that you aspire to do well at, it can take the joy out of it a lot, sometimes, always. Delete as appropriate. So I suppose, yeah, it's not, if I was just doing it on the side,

would I be happier? I don't know. Like because I think comedy I've gone through points where like after a tour and I'm like I'm going to take year off Edinburgh I'm not going to really do anything and I will not really write any stand-up

and I am very happy when that I'm not it's not like oh my God I need to do a gig oh my God I did not feel that I did not feel that at all I'm very happy to have a break but when I'm on stage and it's going well it's incredible

but the work you have to get there for those, you know, those magic gigs where all the stars align, that's the best feeling. And if you've never done, unless you've experienced it, you won't know what it's like. It's just an absolute joy and you come out and you feel like an absolute God.

And that's fantastic. But the work that it takes, it's just sifting gold to finally get that a little bit of mugget. You can't go, I'll just take that one please. Yeah, no. And I'll do something else the rest of the time. It's just so much work and worry. and stress to get there.

Yeah, sometimes it, I think, I think I don't know, it's always the grass is greener. I think maybe perhaps I would be happy if I didn't do stand up. But then that's a really weirdly stupid thing to say because I do and I am and I'm not going to stop. Are you happy? Sometimes.

I'm always like, I look, I think, I'm trying to write a bit about this in my show about things I would like my daughter to be. and I'm very negative and people think that I'm quite chirpy and I'm quite cheery on the outside but inside I feel a bit dead

like I'm quite, I think I'm quite dark and you wouldn't think it right you'd think oh it should be fun and a night out and I'm like I'm not oh no you don't know I can be I'm just quite I think I mean can be quite blue

and depressing quite a lot and it's not Go on and it's not what you'd necessarily think so I think and that again that comes I think a lot of time

I need to remind myself of the things I have and how lucky I am in life. And I should be much. I should be, I should be happy. I deserve. Everything that I have, I should be way happier than I am. But I'm just, I'm just, oh, glass is how empty person. Always have been, always been a worry since I was a child. Mom, I've got to get to school.

I need to finish my work. Like, in primary school, what a dick. Like, I've always been really stressing, really anxious. It's just what I am. It's just what I am. You ever had any help? for it? No. I go through periods are going, I should probably talk to someone, but I don't know what I'd talk about.

I'm just a worry quite a bit. Oh, who gives a shit? It's not like I need to, I don't think, it's not like I need to be medicated, I don't think, or maybe, you know, maybe I would take something and it would lift that bit of me. But my husband's like, you can fix it. It's just a mindset. And I'm like, it's not. I genuinely feel like it's hardwired in, that this is who I am. This is my personality. Sorry, darling. But you're going to have to be giving me chirpy pep talks for the rest of my life, because this is what I am.

But I really hope my daughter is not like that. I really hope she's positive. But then I wonder if I was positive, maybe I wouldn't have gone in to stand up because I wouldn't have craved the approval. Oh, Stuart. Who knows? We've gone down a strange road.

I mean, all of this is very, I'm finding all of this very reasonable. And I think that's, you know, the craving the approval, the anxiety, the worry. You know, like, I was terribly worried. kids. Worrying about stuff that now is like what I did. God, yeah. Far more so, when I talk about mental health,

it's far less to do with actual depression. The depression always came at the sort of the moments when the worrying became overbearing, like I couldn't do anything but when the worrying became chronic. Right. But those, yeah, Pep talks for the rest of your life.

Again, my wife at this point would be nodding, looking out of the window. Yeah. Is there, I don't know, this is, whenever the interviews get into this kind of territory, I always feel like saying, but you can get help for that,

you can get less, you can worry less. You know, that what you're describing is a thing that's, you're not the only person who've gone through that. Of course, yeah. And people have,

no, I mean, from the point of view of, there's a lot of help and books have been written about how to stop people chronically worrying about stuff. But you're not going to get around to. Can't be ass, mate.

Got flog it to watch. No, I think maybe. Maybe I will do at some point. Get around to doing it. I think I am so fortunate. One of my best friends is to live with her. She would always say, when we wear a blue, she would say, how lucky we that we have teeth?

We are so lucky we have teeth. I'm like, if you look at the little tiny things, you're like, yeah, we are lucky to have teeth, yeah. And I am lucky to have a nice husband and a healthy baby and a lovely family and really shiny hair, Stuart. I'm not going to lie about it. So there are many things I should be grateful for, and I think I should try and try and,

I think I need to actively try and be a bit happier. That's such a great answer to the question. Are you happy? I need to actively try and be a bit happy. Today I will be happy. What do you want from comedy? What do you want to be doing in 20 years? Do you know, I have no idea.

I was talking about this to someone the other day. And I said, I don't, I don't. They were like, what's your aim? I don't really know. And I said back at them, what's your aim? And they were like, well, I've kind of done all the things I really wanted to do. And I thought, I've never thought about it like that. And in a way, I think I kind of have.

Like to do, to host live at Apollo was really big for me. And it really felt like, it felt like a real, a real moment, a real thing. And I think that, and Netflix, done a Netflix special. I've been in a, I've been a main part in a sitcom. I've toured to like places, nice places. They've sold out, people have come. I bought ticket. That still blows my mind. People buy tickets to spend the evening with you. It's incredible. So in a way, I've kind of done everything that I want it. So I don't know what I want now.

And that's, I think, sometimes tricky for me. I don't know if it's harder or easier to know. If you know exactly what you want, is it easier to be able to struggle, you know, to go for that goal? Or is it, I don't know if it's more beneficial to me to be, like, floaty and sort of see what happens. I've always just said, and I started out saying, I just want to earn a living showing on. And that's what I've done. What will happen in the future, I do, you think, well, you're not always going to be, I was going to say the hot young thing, I'm already, absolutely not the hot young thing, but you're not always, you know, there's always fresh blood coming through,

and we'll be flushed out the system soon enough. So I suppose it's kind of making haywire the sun shines. And then I'll go and work in Cafe Nero. I had a final question after this one about what do you want? want America? Question mark? I mean Netflix special right? Yeah. Opening doors, plans, move the family to America? Oh, I don't know. I've got an American representation now, which came off the back of Netflix. So we'll see. I don't know. You got a visa? No, I don't have a visa. But I don't know. It's different now. I suppose a few

years ago I could have thought about doing pilot season, but even then it wasn't really, I just don't think it would make me thrive. I don't think I could cope with it, to be honest. So I don't know. It would have to be, having a family, you have to be like, how does that work? If it would be financially beneficial to all of us, then maybe. I mean, it wouldn't be bad. It wouldn't be bad, would it? It would be bad? so I don't know I think I think I could like it over there and I think I'm as long as I don't have to do an American accent I've got to work on that

oh my God nearly there yeah I think I think I might like it but I don't know again I'm not I don't have I'm not you know I'm not 25 so I don't know I don't know Stuart I wish we're doing this one on video because you've

put so many brilliant facial expressions during the way Also, I did notice as you were talking a little while ago, you've got funny fingers. Your thumb, but Jesus Christ. Really odd, that, isn't it? That's what people say. Whenever you go on telly shows, they go, have you got any fun skills?

I'm like, that's literally all I've got. I can bend my thumb at a right angle. Enjoy that. What would you have engraved upon your comedy gravestone? She was all right, won't she? Better than her heels suggested. Better than her heels suggested. Nice.

Thanks, man. So that was an episode from the archives with Ellie Taylor from 2019. You can keep up to date with Ellie by joining her mailing list at EllieTaylorcom and follow on Instagram at Ellie Jane Taylor. If you want to keep up to date with everything to do with ComcomPod, you can join our monthly newsletter at Stuartgoldsmith.com. Where you can also find out how to see me in a live context. Live, we call it.

Bye for now.