The Comedian's Comedian Podcast - Johnny Marriott from PET NEEDS: NonComPod

Episode Date: March 27, 2026

I’m joined by Johnny Marriott from PET NEEDS for a very special NonComPod. The Colchester punk-fuelled melodic rock four-piece who’ve supported The Hives, Frank Turner and Flogging Molly are back with their fourth studio album, ELBOWS OUT! THIS IS CAPITALISM, which is out today. We discuss:how the band survived through playing in strangers' living roomsthe real economics on being in a band in 2026how becoming a parent shapes a creative careerwhy punk isn’t dead… it’s just complicated nowthe complex nature of parasocial relationshipsmanaging anxiety in creative workand we find out if Johnny is happy...Join the Insiders Club at Patreon.com/ComComPod where you can instantly WATCH the full episode and get access to 15 minutes of exclusive extras including:the parallels between song writing and stand-upthe strange pressure of releasing new musicand how lifestyle changes have shaped the band👉 Sign up to the NEW ComComPod Mailing List and follow the show on Instagram, YouTube & TikTok.Catch Up with PET NEEDS: PET NEEDS’ fourth studio ‘ELBOWS OUT! THIS IS CAPITALISM’ is out now wherever you buy records from! Find out more about the band at petneedsband.com.Support our independently produced Podcast from only £3/month at Patreon.com/ComComPod:✅ Instant access to full video and ad-free audio episodes✅ 15 minutes of exclusive extra content with Johnny from PET NEEDS✅ Early access to new episodes where possible✅ Exclusive membership offerings including weekly(ish) Stu&AsPLUS you’ll get access to the full back catalogue of extras you can find nowhere else!Everything I'm up to: Come and see me LIVE including dates in London, Manchester, Stoke, Milton Keynes, Bristol, Marlborough, Mach, Monmouth and LA! Find out all the info and more at stuartgoldsmith.com/comedy.Discover my comedy about the climate crisis, for everyone from activists to CEOs, at stuartgoldsmith.com/climate. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to the show. I'm Stuart Goldsmith. This is the Comedians, comedian's comedian podcast. But today, rather than being a Comcom pod, we are another non-com pod. Remember them? Philippa Perry, Greg Jenner, Brett Goldstein under false pretenses. Today I am joined by Johnny, who is not a comedian. He is the lead singer and co-founder, I guess, of the band Pet Needs. and they are a punk-fueled melodic rock fourpiece from Colchester who previously supported bands like the Hives, Frank Turner and Flogging Molly. Bit of a curveball, eh? They're now back with their fourth studio album, Elbows Out, This is Capitalism,

which is out today and which I have heard an advanced copy of and enjoyed and heard bits of when Johnny very kindly invited me to go and see them live in Bristol. The reason why Johnny is on the show is that he is a long-term Comcom fan, And over the last few years we've been corresponding about the parallels between his life and our lives, those of us in comedy. Oh, I've just remembered another non-com pod. Do you remember Scott, Colt Cabana? Brilliant, brilliant wrestler. And you remember the parallels between the life of a wrestler and the life of a comic?

Well, it turns out being a touring band is similar in some ways, different in others. Who could have predicted that? But the ways in which we discover those similarities and those differences are pretty fun. We are going to find out in the first half of this episode. We'll talk about how the band survived. And you should, listen, I've launched straight into the bullet points there. The key point is, I'm pretty fond of pet needs. I really enjoyed them live. And what, I mean, we'll talk about this in the interview, but they had a really lovely, vibe sense of community in the room. There were people there of all ages. And it was just, it was just a really nice, felt like a family.

And I'm very, very inclined towards them. So listen, we've all got wildly different musical tastes. Maybe they're up your street. Maybe they're not, but they're definitely worth a listen. So do find elbows out, this is capitalism, wherever you young people or old people, or people find your music. So in the first half, we're going to talk about how the band survived COVID through playing in strangers living rooms. We'll talk about why fans don't feel like fans anymore.

We'll talk about turning down the easy route to fit a genre and find out why punk isn't dead. It's just complicated. There's never been a better time to support this independently produced podcast. There's literally just three of us. From only three pound a month, you get access to instant ad-free versions of the full video and audio. You get exclusive extra content with the back catalogue, including some extras with Johnny. You get every week-ish now. You get the new micros tune-A's. That's just me blurbing at you. And pretty fun it is too. We've found a way

to do it now that is much, that I'm much more excited about as a result, content much better. Plus, you get the warm, fuzzy feeling of contributing to a thing that you love. love and listen to. So, and you do love it, you know you do. So find out more at patreon.com dot com.com. Here is Johnny Marriott from the band Pet Needs. We've only met in person once, because I came to your gig in the Thetler in Bristol, and I saw the show, and previously you've kind of been in touch over the last three or four years, and there's once or twice you've been in town or at Glastonbury or something. We never quite managed to make it work, which is a shame. I'm really, I want to start by saying how kind of honored I am that you would ask me to interview you. And you sent

me a very funny text. I'm going to read some of the text you sent me. Okay, okay. Oh, hello, that's a bit of your unreleased album playing in the background. Is it released now? Is it out now? It's not. No, it's out. We're still building up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So you said to me, but it's going to be part of an extended version of the album. We'll talk about that a lot. We're going to drop it on the week of release. We're going for a top 10, so we're releasing multiple formats and downloads and you start it. I cut you off from telling me some interesting facts about that. We'll get back to it. And we want to, it's going to be, it could be the potentially toughest interview I've ever done. The whole thing can be properly authentic. Don't hold back.

I know you and I've seen the way you interview. So am I right in thinking that you have a slightly masochistic thrill about the idea of like, you're like, come on, Stu, go hard. What's that about? I don't know, you know. I mean, like you, for when you do press for music staff, It's kind of you get to hang out with a lot of really, really cool people, but a lot of it is very, very similar. And the reason that I wanted you to interview us, especially for this thing, is because, as you said before, you don't come from music. You come from performance and from story and from comedy and all those kind of things. And I think that you're the kind of person that can get something different and something unique that isn't just like about the sound of the band and about like, I don't. don't know, like, how did the band get his name and all those kind of things?

Sure, sure, sure, sure. Things for people as well. But my backgrounds, like before I did music and stuff like that, my degree was in psychology and I specialized in counseling psychology, and which is kind of a bit of a reason why I find what you do really interesting as well, because you speak to performers, but you don't speak to them just about the performance. You speak to them about the human condition as well, right? Sure, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's it. Interesting. I had no idea that you had a background in psychology, and that, I suppose, resonates with one of my kind of main observations from watching you live. And I feel like I have to be very respectful to the fan base, your fan base listening to this, because I'm a rank outsider by their terms. Coming to that gig, I was really, the thing that struck me most, apart from, I'd heard some of your music before. There was stuff I hadn't heard you as were playing some newer stuff. And it was a very bouncy, like, I haven't been to a gig like that in a while. I think I last moshed watching Biffy Cliro at Glastonbury maybe 10 or 12 years ago,

which was a very fun experience. And to give your audience some idea of my music taste, on that day, it was a great day of music at Glastonbury, I saw Biffy Cliro, Radiohead and Bare Naked Ladies. And I have to say, I enjoyed Bear Naked Ladies most out of everyone. Largely begot. Everyone was great. But my big memory from it was the bassist.

They opened on a song that had a three-minute bass solo in the middle, And halfway through it, he goes, yes, ladies and gentlemen, who else put the bare naked ladies would open with a song that has a three-minute bass setter. So I remember thinking, oh, this is, you know, very enjoyable. Yeah. The thing that really struck me was the kind of the vibe, the community kind of vibe. Like there was a really young kid in the front row

and he was going nuts and knew all the words, and you were really kind to him and really inclusive and started if you knew him or if you know him as a fan. But it was like a real kind of, and was it during kayak, everyone sat down, and like you knew the stuff. It reminded me, again, another kind of touch point for me was, do you know the Cat Empire?

I don't know. An incredible band out of Melbourne and they do really kind of, there's like sort of jazzy swing, DJ trumpet kind of elements. I'm sure you'd love them. But seeing them in Edinburgh like 20 years ago and going, oh, we're seeing something big in a small space where everyone feels so included

and like they really care about us and they're doing those. You know, you can do tricks with the audits. You can get everyone sat down and then jumping up at the same time. Stuff that I think of as kind of street show stuff. Yeah. Notes to your listener, I was a street performer for 10 years, it's informed a lot of how I see the world.

But so there's those kind of like shapes that anyone can do. But they and you are kind of doing those sorts of things with, I felt, a real warmth and a real care. And I was looking at it going, oh, I get it. I get an element of this. You know, all I knew really was the tone and the speed of the music is punk. I know that your lyrics are very kind of, self, you know, you kind of chisel into yourself in a way that I really like.

You've got a lot of the narratives and certainly the narrative of the new album are to do with how fucking hard it is being a touring musician. And I don't think this album is unique in that respect in terms of your output. But through all of that, there was this warmth and this care about the audience. And I was like, oh, yes, this is, they're starting and cultivating a family. Yeah. Well, that's kind of what it is, I think. And I think there's no, like, um,

through kind of design, but also through kind of necessity, really, like we are really looked after by our audience. When we first left our jobs to do music full time, it was just about four years ago. And we got this big tour with a guy called Frank Turner. And then there was a spiking. Thank you. I know who that is.

I like you framed it as a guy called Frank Turner. I'm aware of Frank Turner, but I appreciate you being kind. That's good news. That's good news. Well, we got a big tour with him. And it was in the January and February. And then people started getting worried about COVID, like coming back and stuff. And the streets were the first band to like pull the tour. And then, yeah, Frank and his crew had to pull the tour as well. And then so suddenly me and my brother, who's a guitarist of the band, the other two went back to work. But we'd quit jobs that we couldn't go back to.

So we were suddenly without work with we had one month's rent each. and we just put out on our social media and we started getting invited to play people's living rooms and play people's gardens and stuff and now that really core fan base that you see like when

like it's 400 cap over at Fechler and maybe like the 50 people down the front we've probably played their living room at some point and we've kind of built up from there and that's kind of that was the nucleus of how everything kind of built up from there and I think just as important important as music in this day and age. And I guess in the same with loads of different performances,

but I think especially with music, is that sense of community and that sense of community building because people are like, well, people need it right now more than ever, right? How do you feel as the front man of the band when you're, there's a thing that I notice happening in comedy and I think of it there's a particular act I would think of years ago. me and my wife used to say of them, that it's almost like they're turning up, they'll dig anywhere, they'll do any gig, and it's kind of a way of socialising,

but without having to socialise, because it's like being the DJ at a party. You know, you're not at the party, you're the DJ, but you feel like you're at the party, but you don't have to risk anything by being at the party. Do you mean, you don't have to go, oh, should I go? Because it's a gig.

Is there any kind of vibe like that for you in that there's a lovely community, but also you're driving it, and so you're vulnerable as well as powerful, for. Yeah, sure. And it's just exciting to have a role, you know, like when you do go to like a party where you don't know what your role is, that's when I'm always the person kind of like standing by the nibbles on their own, kind of like anxious to go and speak to people or kind of like infiltrate that certain social group or something like that. And I feel like I've been lucky to

create a space where I can genuinely just be completely myself now, which is cool because I spent a lot of like many years in my life not being that and trying to live up to other people's expectations and stuff or even just being like when I was a teenager being in punk bands where it was really like sneering and everyone was like gobbing and stuff like that and it kind of had that kind of like undertone of Neil Hillism or nihilism sorry nihilism to it and and now I think over the past 10 years but especially over the past four years where it just got to that point where we just had to be looked after as soon as we started like yeah. as soon as we start doing it full time.

Now I feel that we can, or at least I especially, have got to a point where I can just be completely me, which is nice, but also have that role as well. So I say, yeah, you're showing up to the party, which can be exhausting, obviously, socially exhausting because you feel like there's no separation between artists and audience at all. And like you saw after the show, like,

we're not kind of, I mean, people like want photos, and stuff, but most of the time, like, they, like, people feel that they're kind of friends. And I bet you get it as well. I think what, like, one thing for me is like, uh, because I run like Patreon and we have like all the Facebook groups and all those kind of things. You do get those relationships with people that feel deeper than, um, than just a kind of fan relationship. Yeah. I don't like, I found the word fan kind of weird, really.

I like seeing people, like the best word I've, uh, thought about it or best word I've come to is like, supporter. a bit like kind of like a football supporter or something like that where people feel that they've got influencing what you're doing and all those kind of things as well not creatively but then when it gets to a campaign or something but yeah it just feels really affirming to be able to turn up to a space like that now

and kind of like lead the charge by being completely me and then hopefully allowing everyone else to be themselves as well you say like kind of there's people out of all ages there as well and there's like people of like like, yeah, just all different walks of life. And yeah, just being, being them, which I think is important now. Sounds cheesy, don't it? But, like, yeah, it feels important.

Have you ever, so the thing that reminds me of most of all is like the, so during COVID I did this show called the Infinite Sofa, which was like an attempt to kind of, it was like a collaborative Zoom chat show. And it created loads and loads of these parasocial relationships with like those 50 people. The way I would say to people, the thing I'd say, to people is that like if you had 10,000 fans and 50 of them were really intense, I felt like, oh, this show has just those 50 fans, right? And it kind of became a elements of it became a

running joke where they were like, no outsiders, this is our thing. We're not going to tell anyone about it. And I remember thinking, I mean, I think of them very, very fondly. One of the reasons I stopped doing it was because I just ended up being really anxious. I felt like there was a, there was a danger area of sorts to that kind of a close-knit relationship. I've never actually talked about it on stage and I wondered whether you had and forgive me, I know a lot of your work but I'm not comprehensive.

Have you ever written anything about because I know that you write a lot about this is the reality of touring, this is the reality of bumping all the gear back out. I love that line on the new album where you're like, you know, everyone did that and then we went and jumped started the van. It was lovely, lovely moment.

Have you ever written or tried to write about not just, hey, the fans are great, but the fans can take a toll too? Or is that an area that you'd resist writing about in case it was misunderstood? The, yeah, I haven't written direct. I think there's a line in the new, in the new album that says like,

it's talking about sleeping, like finding comfort under posters in a multitude of languages. And that's when I've crashed in people's houses all over the world. And I'm always, and you kind of like learn so much about people. So often the posters in their kids' bedrooms, they often cart their kids out,

and then you're like sleeping on their kids' floor or something like that. But no, I've never really, like, because the people that, like, are our biggest supporters, and like that show that you came to, we had people that had flown over from America to do the whole tour, and people from Germany were there doing the tour and stuff.

As, like, I think I'm really good at having boundaries now. So, like, my personal social media, it doesn't have, like, my full name on it and all those kind of things. and I'm notoriously bad, but to everyone, like bad at replying to like any kind of Instagram messages or Facebook messages and stuff like that. And I'm kind of honest that I am like that. And I like the people that are kind of really close to the band or the people that follow

the band around, there has been times where people have kind of like walked into sound check when we're trying new songs and stuff and we've had to like ask them, Like, can you, uh, yeah, are you right? Just like leave us to do this for a bit and you kind of like feel a bit weird then. Or sometimes I'll walk out into, um, a bar like next door to go and get some food. And then there'll be a lot of people there. And then I'll just get, not because not so I don't like the people or don't appreciate the people.

I just got, feel anxious because then it's like, oh, what is my role in this situation? Yeah. Um, so that's I, uh, but I've never, yeah, I've never explicitly written about, uh, Yeah, never, never explicitly written about it. But I also like, appreciate him so much as well. And I think it comes with like part and parcel with the job, really, if you didn't have those kind of 50, a hundred, couple of hundred people that were the, like, biggest supporters.

And the people that are going, kind of like, flyering loads of other gigs and like wearing our merch to loads of other places and stuff and really kind of like shouting about this. Like the music scene is so, saturated with so many, like so many bands and just, and so many bands that look like us as well. like four white men and like straight presenting as well. And so like I just, yeah, I'm massively appreciate them. And I've got to a point like I said where I've got to point where I can just be completely me. There are times where I will just like disappear for a couple of weeks off of social

media and stuff like that. And especially because I'm going to be having a kid in a few months as Of course, you mentioned. Yeah, congratulations again. I can see the hurricane over your shoulder. Yeah, yeah, it's going to be, going to be nuts. So life's going to change a lot. And I think that I've, like, because I operate with such honesty all the time, I think I've got an honesty to be able to tell people if things are getting a little bit too intense or anything like that. And people kind of understand that as well.

But no, never, never written directly about it. I wonder if I could. Because I think that the new album is like, it's kind of affecting life and life. As we get into the album campaign, life's going to affect the album. and it's all kind of like building out as one kind of big, big piece of art. That's a lovely way of putting it. Like the album's affecting our life.

The life is affecting our album. So the launch of the album isn't just, this is the artifact that's now released into the world. Art ends. It's like, I love that. That's like this is an ongoing organic process whereby part of the art of my life delivers an album, which then resonates in the rest of the art of my life.

That's it. Yeah. And this is the first time, especially that we've kind of done this, where we're trying to, and we're just also just trying to get people as involved in it as possible. But one of the things that we're doing, like we said that we're releasing loads of different versions.

And obviously this album's kind of about capitalism and all that kind of stuff as well. But we're releasing two versions on cassette tape and you've got one version, which is the normal version. And then you've got another version that's cheaper, but we put adverts all the way through it. But we weren't allowed to do actual adverts

because then it makes it chart illegible. So we've just made up adverts for like people that we've stayed with or people that have cooked for us on the road and stuff, which they don't know yet. They will know by the time this goes out. That's great. That's great. Yeah, and it's cool.

And it's, I like the fact that we were going to, it was too jarring because we wanted to want to come in halfway through a song. But that was just too jarring. But like, yeah, it's got about nine or 10 adverts all the way through it. And the whole album campaign is, going to be like we're going to be really utilising our hardcore supporters to make it happen.

And it's almost kind of like a tongue in cheek version of like your kind of political campaigns. We're getting like magnets on the side of our bus and turn it into a campaign bus and all that kind of stuff. Like it just feels like everything's just going to feed into it. So yeah, yeah, long answer to the question. I haven't written directly about the people that support us or listen to us before. The only, there's a line in the very first song on the album that says, I'm worried that people prefer our old albums. Yeah, which.

That's like the first gag of the, the album, isn't it? That's the first kind of, like, that's a really, that's the first like, oh, a distillate pet needs moment of the first. That came from a real experience. And we just played in Berlin and we played downstairs. And then there was like a club night upstairs and we got invite to the club night. and then like the people that had come to see us, a lot of them came up and we were out in like a rooftop garden kind of thing.

And one guy asked me, he was just like, in a very German way, he was just like, tell me, can you tell me about your influences for your newest album is our third album? And I had like a little group of maybe four or five people around me. And almost started like, I'm sure you might have had similar things where sometimes if someone asks you

a question like that, you almost fall into like you're in an interview or a Q&A or something. you kind of feel a bit weird. But I was like, well, I kind of like, I wrote it from the roads, but it was like a like love letter home really and that put spoken words in. And then it put like soft stuff all the way it's. And I finished by saying, and to be honest, I just feel that this is the Pet Needs album that I always feel that I wanted to create.

And it's a piece of work that I'm most proud of. And then he was just, he just said to me, I'm very happy for you. I prefer your first two albums. It was just so perfect. And that's fine because we wrote those as well. So you're on the answer like personally, you know. There is, I think for,

it should be part of like the artist mental health prep care packages. Talk to a German about your albums. Do you know what I mean? Talk to someone or anyone who has, you know, like who isn't going to spare your feelings. And at least they said it kindly. That sounds nice. Yeah, they were happy that I liked the third one.

I'm very pleased for you. Well done you. So tell me about, tell me a bit about, album. And like you said, like it's easy. Of course, of course, I have the same thing. You mentioned the climate stuff. If anyone ever asks me about my climate comedy, I've got the 25 things I say. So I'm, you know, and I try to, kind of say it differently. But like for, we can imagine that, what should we imagine that most people listening to this already know you or that some people have been brought? Do you know what I mean? Some people are kind of going, oh, maybe I'll give this,

I'll see if I like him first and then listen to it. That feels unlikely. But on the off chance, there's anyone listening who is less familiar with your Urvra. What kind of thing is it? It's punk, right? And I'm listening to it going, they sound very clean for punk. But I think my idea of punk is probably from 50 years ago. Well, the reason I think that we've been, our first ever song we ever released was a song called Punk Isn't Dead. It's just up for sale.

And that then, I think ever since, and we put it on T-shirts as well, which feels very pet-needs because we sold loads. of them. That's how we kind of like paid our rent and stuff for a couple of years. It was like literally t-shirts that said punk isn't dead. It's just up for sale. And then so we got very kind of associated with punk then. And like with punk music and like we've toured, like we're on a package tour in America and like 75% of the bands have been on the Tony Hawks found track and then it was us. And it was like so kind of like we're definitely like difference of punk. I like punk music. but I would never like I don't know like sometimes like you'll get like you're kind of like moheican kind of guy that will go like you're not a punk band and it's like well yeah that's fine

it's like saying you're not a jazz band and it's like I don't like I don't like I don't like I don't like I don't really care so like yeah if you listen to it and it's like say like well actually this time like our label and stuff because they've kind of like you have to like when you upload at different places. You have to put your style and everything. And they've, instead of putting us in all the punk categories, they put it in post punk this time, which kind of, I think, like, maybe kind of like puts you more where kind of like idols and yard acts and those kind of bands are, which they've got those punk influences, but then there's some stuff that's like a little more considered and stuff. But on this album, we like use electronic drums and we kind of get

influenced by a lot of like spoken word stuff and a lot of like a lot of the music a lot of the lyrics at least are quite introverted as well so it's not kind of like ohoy fuck the world kind of stuff and it never was and I think we've got put in the punk genre and we can hold our own with punk bands as well I mean well we played an old school punk festival called rebellion festival last year and we did fine there but like it was mainly the, I mean, the people running the festival were really nice and everything, but we were playing kind of like before and after like bold guys and Fred Perry's, like just like shouting, aoi kind of stuff.

But then also we're like touring with Buzzcocks next week who are kind of similar to, I'd kind of see them in a way how I saw us where they were put in that punk genre. I mean, they were touring with sex pistols and the clash and stuff. But then they've got such a pop sensibility when they write. such, I mean, like, yeah, Pete Shelley as a songwriter is one of the best songwriters in the world. He's so, he's got a real introversion to a lot of the stuff that he's writing about as well. So, yeah, people say we're a punk band and then other people get annoyed about the fact that other people say were a punk band saying that we're saying that we're a punk band. Yeah, okay.

But I think we're just, um, a band, really. Like, we just, we just write music. But I don't know if every band just says that. I'm not sure. Like we don't really try and tie ourselves to anything. But I think that one song, Punk is Dead is just up for sale, just firmly put us in the punk space for a long time. Yeah.

And it's youthful and it's exuberant and it's fast and it's energetic and it's good to jump around to. One of the things I think, like, if I sort of think of you on the punk lineup as going like, oh, that's the punk band you could take you kids to kind of thing. Yeah, cool. It's like it's like a non-aggressive. I don't want that to, you know, I don't want that to say. I love my kids and I love them having a great time.

So you know what I mean? It's not like you're not punk for kids at all. But it's, it's, I wonder, do you feel pressure to live up to a particular description? When you are, like the thing that happens in comedy, as you'll know, is that if you've got a way you can describe yourself, it's easier to market yourself. This is the whole thing we see at the Edinburgh Festival, the origin of shows that were about a thing. People say, what's your show about? And if you can't answer it, you feel like you look like a tool. but the reality is, who says it's got to be about anything?

You know what I mean? That's a market force rather than a kind of a creative force. So do you feel any pressure to say that you're something other than just a band? Yeah, and I think that we sometimes miss out on festivals for that reason. Like we'll get like you'll have like indie city festivals, like your dot-to-dot festivals and stuff. I'm trying to think of what happens in Bristol at the moment. But like we actually have done dot-to-dot now. But they were like, oh, we're more of an indie festival.

festival we don't really want to book a punk band and then your agent will be putting you putting you forward for like punk festivals and it's like oh you you've got a like four minute like ballad with a with an orchestra yeah like you're not really punk enough for us so yeah i think it'd be easier if yeah if you can package because you do have your punk festivals your indie festivals your alternative festivals and you still have those and i think if we could package ourselves in that way Yeah, maybe things would be easier. But then I also have a thing about authenticity. And we could cut like 40% of our songs and then just be the punk bands if we wanted to, I feel.

Because I think we've definitely got those elements. But for me, like, especially when playing live as well, like my favorite times playing live is when we're doing something soft and the room's silent. And I feel that's so much more powerful than we're doing. something hard and the room's like going nuts. And I wouldn't want to take that away and I'd rather not get all the opportunities but be authentic. Well, I say that until we don't get the opportunities. And you have a child.

And then you really discover how authentic you are. Yeah, that's a thing. That's a thing. But like I just, yeah, we've spent so long and worked so hard to try and carve a space where we can just be us. And really this new album. And when we started writing it, we didn't even know if it was going to be a Pet Needs album at the start. Like me and my brother were just writing.

And we were kind of using like electronic instruments and stuff and like not just like experimenting purely for fun. I was trying to write like almost kind of like garage stuff like stuff like the streets and stuff like that. And then it just felt like and we rearranged it and put like guitars on it and stuff. But they started to feel like Pet Needs because we were writing them. And I think that's what we are. we are like we are just us um but yeah be easier if we if people knew what we were i think i think we say that we're fractured party music that's that's what we've always described ourselves as that was the title of our first album is fractured party music where you can go and you can like throw your

arms in the air and you can sing along you can be part of the community but then just scratch beneath the surface you see we're kind of clinging on by our fingernails as well this is Johnny, he's a joy, isn't he? You can probably hear how much I'm enjoying talking to him, just because it's something so new. I think this idea was initially conceived. We were going to do sort of like extra content to go on the album and then we're going to do a thing for a launch, we couldn't make it work live. And it's ended up being a non-com pod. So I'm very pleased for the first and possibly only time in my life to be helping launch an album. So go and get elbows out. Go and get it. You know, go and physically get it.

a record shop. Is it on record? It probably is. They're probably released. Didn't he say they're releasing it on every conceivable platform? Records on a platform. Formats. They're a format. At what point does a platform become a format? This is the sort of thing you can expect from the Musician's Musician podcast, which this is not. It's their fourth studio album, elbows out. This is capitalism, and you can get it or listen to it now from wherever you do that. You can find out more at pet needsband.com. Go to Stuart Goldsmith.com to find out. where to see me live in London, Manchester, Stoke, Milton Keynes, Bristol, Marlborough, Mach, Monmouth, and Los Angeles. That's right. Have I done one of these since finding out about Netflix is a joke? I don't think I have.

Well, here's me proudly launching the fact that I am this year going to be part of the Netflix is a joke festival. It's in Los Angeles, California. Yes, that one. And it's what's the thing called? It's called, the thing I'm doing is Netflix Is A Joke presents an emergency. board meeting slumber party. So I think it's initially conceived as a climate comedy show. But there's a thing, Yellow Dot, Adam McKay's, the production wing of, well, it's a production team created by Adam McKay who directed The Big Short and Don't Look Up and loads of brilliant stuff.

He has this organisation called The Yellow Dot. I've worked with him on a climate comedy gig in South by Southwest London last year. and they do a thing called Let's Not Die, which we did with, who was Alice Matthews and Senil Patel, Matt Winning, of course, and Kathy Bauman McLeod, who is a brilliant speaker about heat and the way that the warming climate disproportionately affects women. So it was a hell of a show, really, really fun. And what they normally do for their format Let's Not Die, which they did on that night as well, is challenge regular old comedians to come up with a climate joke. So I believe this started off like that. but now it's an emergency board meeting slumber party, so I think it's covering more than just the climate.

The line-up, the line-ups unbelievable. I'm hosting. We've got Adam McKay himself. I mean, I'm saying Mackay as if he's Scottish. He may well pronounce it, McKay. I'd better find out, hadn't I? Robbie Hoffman, oh my days. Jean-Marco Sarasi of this parish, also of this parish.

Catherine Cohen and Beth Stelling, both superb comics. Jimmy O. Yang, about whom I know next to nothing, that he's clearly absolutely enormous in the States, so I better find out. Cristella Alonzo, she's fantastic, and the brilliant Esteban Gast. So if you're in, and this isn't the sort of promo

I would ordinarily be able to do, but if you're in LA, then come to the Pacific Electric on Monday the 4th of May. I actually have to leave McCunkcliff early to go to, I mean, that's so end up. Couldn't they've just had it on any other date? I'm looking forward to McCunklet so much.

But I'm going to go there. You can see me at Mac at 12pm on the Saturday and then about 8. PM, I do a runner. So if you see my wife and housemates wrangling my children, don't help, actually. Just a respectful nod. We'll be fine. Find out more about all of that at Stuartgoldsmith.com slash comedy, or you can also sign up to the mailing list. Back to Johnny from Pet Needs, we're going to talk about the economics, the real economics of being in a band. We'll talk about how becoming a parent shifts your career strategy. How do you hold onto your identity whilst growing up? and we will talk about managing anxiety in creative work.

You can see why he wanted to be on the show and why I wanted to have him. So let's get back to Johnny. Tell me about your, I'm really fascinated by that feeling powerfully small, like being in kind of in the eye of the storm. You said, you alluded earlier on to the fact that now you feel like you really are yourself on stage. And that's a very common, you know, I've heard that come up in my podcast. You know, that idea of like a lot of comics when they start off, they do an impression of what they think a comedian's supposed to be like,

and then they gradually get closer and closer. I think Bill Burr said every comic's fully formed as a persona until they first set foot on stage. And then it all goes out the window. All the blocks go up. So talk to me a little bit about that process for you and who you were when you first stepped out on stage and who you pretended to be before you were able to stop.

Sure. Well, I... So when I was a kid, I was like a super geeky kid, like really geeky like we not from a massively rich family or anything like uh like born in a council house um but then when i was about eight years old my mom went to university and retrained as a teacher um so we kind of had that kind of transition from like having like literally nothing uh to having a bit come in um and even though like we didn't have loads of money or anything like that uh had quite a secure family um then my parents

split up right in the middle of my GCSEs as a really all kind of like geeky kids that had had kind of a lot of pressure put on me to perform as well like I mean perform academically and all those kind of things um and then I just weirdly suddenly felt like this like nihilistic freedom in a way where I'd been quite uh I was always very aware of how other people saw me and all these kind of things and always wanted to be like a high achiever, loved English and maths and all that kind of stuff. And then when my parents split up, I thought, oh, I can not give a fuck. Like, I don't, I don't have to care about anything. I don't have to like live up to anyone's expectations anymore because I've been let down. So like, it doesn't matter. And I got into punk music,

but my safe space, like, in my mind was I was into, like the 1970s, kind of like Ramones, Buzzcox clash. I mean, it's mad that we're talking with Buzzcox now. That's amazing for like young me. But like all those kind of bands and I was just like living inside like the

documentaries about them and stuff. And left home and went and stayed in this weird kind of shared house, which was run by this Coke dealer with these strange characters or like some pretty much double my age. I was only about like 17 at the. the time. And I died and straightened my hair and all that kind of stuff and then joined a band of one of the people in it. And we were rattling around the country in a in a van with no insurance. The driver didn't have a driver's license or anything like that. The worst thing was it didn't

have a petrol gauge. So we didn't know how much petrol we had in or anything like that. Desperately skinny like stealing the food that I had to eat and stuff, all knowing as well that at any point I could have gone home. So it's not like I wasn't here and I've got made that really, really clear that I could always have gone home and my mum would have welcomed me back and my bedroom was the same as it was. Sure, sure, sure. But then I, like, my idol, weirdly was like Sid Vicious out sex pistols who couldn't play, who died when he was 21 years old. And was... Is that just because of the romance of the idea of like, I've been let down, fuck society? Like, that kind of, like, he's kind of an icon for that, right? That nihilism, the nihilistic kind of like,

well, I'll just do whatever then. You know what I mean? Like, there's like the myth. Yeah. And I was like, I literally like just built up this character to paint like really heavy eyeliner and like kind of like ripped clothes and like my hair was all like straight. I hated having curly hair,

which I have now. And like my hair was all straight and it was like black but like all this kind of like half red and stuff like that. And I just like it was back in the day where my space was a big thing as well. So I built like I was. like I was just that MySpace character thing kind of thing basically. And I never really was that person, but it was all about giving that kind of like Sid vicious snarl

and just like going on stage with no top on and just like being that kind of like agy and like glorifying being like messed up and all those kind of things. And it was only when I met my girlfriend's now wife where I started to kind of of accept myself a little bit more and then started to kind of appreciate me as a person. But then also, one of the most messed up things is that during that time, because I was kind of so much like, Sid Fischer's and stuff, I left that house in the middle of the night and I left all my stuff, left my amps, left everything in that space because I felt too scared to go back and get it. And applied for clearing, following a next girlfriend down to

UEA in Norwich, where I went and did psychology. And I applied like about a week before and said, I'll do anything. Like I'll do drama. I'll do that. And I suddenly land in this place. Everyone else is that you're kind of kind of kind of like 17, 18 year old kind of like preppy normal person. I said I'm my half red and half black hair and all my heavy eyeliner and everything like that. And then in this transition period of me trying to get away from this kind of glorifying this Sid Vicious character,

I was asked by the world's best Sex Pistols tribute bands if I could fill in as Sid Vicious for a year because Sid Vicious had a baby. And then suddenly I was found myself in Texas. In their second to last gig, the Pistols ever played was, well, before the reformed,

was in Dallas. in Texas at a place called the Longhorns Ballroom. And I used to have that on DVD, and that was one of the things I used to watch all the time. And then suddenly I was in this tribute band, like playing at the same venue that, like, and that, so that was like weird, but that almost kind of like put that to bed.

I did it for a year. Yeah, okay. And then I realized that that wasn't really, because the kind of audience at a Sex Pistols tribute band, especially in the UK, it's a bit better in America. I went and did some stuff in Italy as well. But in the UK, again, like,

it can attract some cool people, but then it has a real kind of like skin eddy kind of audience as well. And I realized, because I got offered a couple of years later if I wanted to kind of step in and do it full time. And the money was great. The money is so much better than being an originals band, like being in a tribute band,

the money is insane. And sex pistols, as I said before, and he did one album, so I'd hardly anything to learn. And it was well easy. And I turned it down because I, like just didn't like that kind of that real kind of like super heteroaggy side of punk rock at all

and then after that just started writing acoustic music for ages and did about like five or six years of just doing acoustic stuff and it was that kind of like introverted like I was really into like bands like Nick Cave and stuff like that and then yeah my brother moved down from Derby to Colchester and we formed a kind of punk band about 10 years ago. But I took everything I'd learned from when I was doing the acoustic stuff and trying to create a space where I'd like to exist in and like create a space where hopefully I could just be completely myself in it as well as opposed to being this kind of construct that I was kind of 10 years previous. This is what I was going to ask. Like just talk to me about the relative of those kind of experiences

of like living in the house, in the shared house, and then gigging and then going to college and then the Sid Vicious thing, like to what degree were any of them authentic? Did that, or did they feel authentic at the time? Because I'm sure there'll be kids listening to this who are like young and are going full punk eye liner, all the rest of it.

And I imagine if I put myself in that position, I would think if I were them, I'd be like, oh, yeah, you sold out, man. Do you mean? Like, maybe? Because you, you, like, at the time, I used to, I was an absolutely dreadful goth for a few years in Wellington Spa. That's, we don't need to spend any time on that.

But at the time it felt authentic. Sure. Because I was like, yeah, it's, you know, me versus them and I'm being alternative and everything. Well, you know, the classic, like, I'm being alternative in the same way as everyone else. And so to kind of like, I can look back on that now and try and be much more, I can try and be compassionate to myself. I was obviously doing it for a reason. At the time it felt authentic.

It was wildly inauthentic. So how did that, did it feel like any parts of that were, had anything in common with your authentic self? So when I was, yeah, when I was 17 back in that, back in that weird kind of squat plays, and I left in, I must have been about 18 actually when I left in the middle of the night. I remember saying to myself, like, I just never sell out, basically, never sell out. and I kind of like had an idea about what being a good person in the world would be and all that kind of stuff

but the one time where I've questioned myself because like we do stuff now and like I think the 17 year old me wouldn't care about how I look now and all those kind of things but we opened for busted last year and it was 10,000 people and it was it was really fun but it was the first time where I sided the stage and I was like oh man like he wouldn't be

pleased about this. And it was a great show. That's the thing. And it was like we were basically playing to like moms and daughters basically. But it was and 10,000 of them. But because like there were people that didn't like usually go to shows, I feel like the crowd was just like you saying like using all the kind of like tricks and everything that anyone can do. But they were so malleable. It's like even like there was like 10,000 of them.

Yeah. And that was really great. But that was the first time where I was like, oh man, like my 17 year or self would not be happy. about me walking out about to warm up for busted, who, by the way, were great and really, really friendly as well, which I kind of find a lot of the pop acts are, which is cool. But I feel that, yeah, back in that space, I felt that I thought I was my authentic self then because I thought that the whole of my life, there was a definite line, as soon as my parents split up, there's a definite line of I've been, like, I don't know if I had loads of

pressure put on to me. I'm not really sure. Like, I'm not really sure if I had loads of pressure put on or not. I just like was like, yeah, just quite quite smart and like I guess that, um, I put that pressure on myself, but then my parents did as well, I guess a bit. Um, but then, yeah, when I was like in that, in that space at 17 years old with all the kind of like hair dye and all those kind of things, I knew that I was constructing a character, but I'd never felt more authentic than I was right then because I was still thinking. and feeling the same stuff and I still think and feel the same stuff now I think and that's the person that I'm always trying to um like look after in a way I've sounded like James Acaster now with it

like looking after the boy uh but that's yeah that's the kind of uh he he he's my barometer of if I'm doing the right thing still and every single job I've had through life like a lot of stuff's been kind of like youth work and working for different charities and stuff and it's always been like that kid, that punk kid that left in the middle of the night, it's he proud of this decision that you're making right now. And apart from the busted one, which I stand by and which was lots of fun, I think he is. And in terms of your persona on stage when you're like doing moments in between songs, I think in some of our, you know, texts over the last couple of years,

you'd mentioned or you alluded to the fact that like you feel like you're getting better at being yourself and kind of saying funny things. You were very funny. Like, you know what I mean? Like you obviously feel comfortable, you with your people, they're all behind you. So my assumption would be that you're able to take a few more creative risks and try and make them laugh here and there in appropriate moments. I'm just kind of interested in that self. Because, I mean, that's one of those, obviously comedy is a job where a lot of people could quite easily say,

I'd never do that if you paid me a million quid. Like it's, you know, the dignity being at stake is just, you know, it seems insurmountable. for me like what do you say in between songs like what the what the fuck do you say really wow that's so mad that you like you think that well i mean it probably it might i might feel different if i had some songs yeah yeah sure sure yeah i think for me like the fact like i i can take risk trying to say something to make someone laugh because it's not my job so if it dies it doesn't matter yeah so there's so it's like and we've we've like so i've like so i've like so i've like so i'm like so I will always try out stuff or just have conversations and then if like I mean you you saw it's kind of

quite near the end of the tour and like usually I start a tour with nothing and then just start having conversations then if something works it's like kind of like chipping away at it right sure sure sure you add a bit of patter that you improvised last time and that kind of thing yeah that's it that's it and if it doesn't like I could never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever do stand up comedy ever ever like i have so much respect for people that do it and i think it's amazing i love going to stand up nights and learning a lot i love going to the work in progress shows and all those kind of things but i can never ever ever do it but i love the feeling of um even if we're i'm just saying something that's like really simple kind of reveal or something like that i love the feeling of

like a room full of people laughing as well i think i think that's really fun um but it is yeah compared to stand-up comedy it's so like ridiculous low risk because people haven't paid. I mean, maybe our fans have because it's kind of part of the show. And I think it's a really great way if you're a support band of setting context and like winning people over. So when we do support staff, usually you have like we've got 40 minutes when we do the Buzzcock stuff. We just go on. We play one song and then start having a conversation because no one knows you. So if you go on and just do three songs, they might like be going, well, they might not even be listening, you know. So, you know, so you.

just go on and we've kind of like honed away where we like get people focused like we play the first song because we have to basically and then we get people focused from the words that we're saying straight afterwards and i'm sure that you've had experience of this as well but this works like so well in america as well like they love a british person having a conversation with them um and then because the other thing that we've got to do we have to do um is sell t-shirts at the end of night because that's about 90% of our income. Holy shit, 90%. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh my God. It's crazy. It's great. Also, we have to sell enough to keep four people afloat. And obviously, we split like, we do 20%. So our management's like a fifth member, basically. So it's 20% each to everyone. And that's after all the cost of the T-shirt and all those kind of things. So it's, yeah, it's like, I think the talking is essential.

um like definitely and i think that if we just got our head down and just played without any of that context built without any of that community building or without like having a laugh and like telling like i like i suppose it is telling jokes but i don't want it to feel like it's a kind of it's not like a comedy it's they're not like comedy no no no no it's like they're definitely take what we're doing really really seriously um but i think without that i i don't know if we'd have built to the level we are especially as a support band. I feel that I'm really proud of us as a support band. I think we do really well at warming people up for other people for that reason.

But yeah, it's so low risk because you're there with like your four, well, were your three best mates? And if you say something that dies, like a text you about our warm up show the other day and you were like, oh yeah, it was hard work. Like I can't imagine. I cannot imagine. I've got so much respect. So that's the only way to do it.

That's the only way to do it is going. out and have it and like we'll go out and I'll try something and it won't or something sometimes I just try and say something that will exclusively make the three boys on stage laugh and no one else especially for like in Germany yeah yeah yeah yeah and um it doesn't matter it doesn't matter because like if it dies then I mean if it dies the boys find it funnier than if it didn't yeah of course of course and then um you're playing a song yeah and literally we'll start playing a song and I'll just turn around to our drum and go, yeah, that died. And he's like, yeah, that's shit.

But it doesn't matter because you're playing the song. So that's, yeah, that's fine. That's cool. I did, like, I used to struggle with that at the start, I think. Like, if, like, you thought, oh, this would be good. And then it didn't. I, like, be sitting up after it was like, oh, fuck. But then it's not our job.

It's not our job to do that. It enhances the job that we do. Sure. But it's, yeah, it's not our job. Our job is to play songs and, like, build that community. So it's just, I just love doing it. And I love being able to pretend for a little while, but I could never do what you do at all.

I know so many people do that, but having a tiny, tiny... Well, the reality is I could train you up to do this a lot faster than you could train me to sing or play a guitar. But, so just on a sidebar, I'm just still reeling from the 90% income merch revelation. Is there... Do you ever see that movie The Founder,

which is Michael Keaton being the guy that invested in McDonald's? And basically a crux of that movie is like McDonald's was this ultra-optimized one-off at hamburger restaurant that could serve people faster than anyone else because they did all this, you know, it's a fun montage of them optimizing how they cook the burgers. And then his character came along and needed a big break, needed some money and massively invested in it.

And then the kind of the crux of the movie is him realizing or being told by B.J. Novak's character, you're not operating a fast food restaurant. Your franchise, you've got all these McDonald's franchisees, but they don't pay very much. He says, you've got to own the real estate. McDonald's is a real estate company, right? You own the land and you rent the land to the franchisee who's selling your stuff.

With that in mind, aren't you a T-shirt company? Like, is there a way of looking at it whereby you're, like, one way you could approach this? And you don't need to include this. You can edit out what you like. But should you not own a T-shirt printing press to a high spec? Maybe that's like, it's a big specious, but it's kind of like maybe that's a post-Spotify music world where you go, we are a band, but the money comes from our T-shirt industry.

Do you know what I mean? I just feel like there's some, I feel like there's some ludicrous over-optimization you could do to leverage that. And 90% I reckon of the, especially the ethical T-shirt companies in the UK are owned by punk musicians. Is that right? Yeah. That is funny.

So, okay, so this is the 30-year-old idea. Thank you. Yeah. When we're in the U.S. our t-shirts are there's a band called the attack who are Floridian punk band and they own Enemy Inc

and they supply all of our t-shirts and then in the UK there's a band called Random Hand their bass player he either owns or works for an ethical t-shirt company and it's kind of it is that really and then yeah it's so crazy so yeah people literally do that

people go like how are we going to start making money and there's a guy in a local band who like before we signed to a label and got a different supplier who was supplying all of our CDs and stuff basically because he wanted to make a CD for his band years ago and then he was like oh my God it's so much better

to buy this in bulk than it started asking all of his mates and now he's like a massive like CD poster vinyl like maker and stuff now so yeah that's a huge way that people do it now genuinely do it it's moments like this when I think of the

first born movie the born identity when he's just killed Clive Owen in the cornfields and Clive Owen's looking at him going, look at what they make you give. So, you mentioned, like, looking back at your drummer, remind me of the names of your other musicians

in the band. I know as you enjoyed. Jewel's on drums and then Ryan on bass. Jules and Ryan. Yeah. So you're writing the songs. Yeah. And you're speaking on stage, you're going, this is our experience. This is what it's like being in a band. We're actually, it's your experience.

Do you ever clash or do you feel like, do you feel like, are you strumming their pain with your fingers as well? Or are you like your, do you ever feel like they're looking at you over their instruments going like, oh, he's off again? Do you know what I mean? Like what's the relationship between the kind of the meaning of the music? Yeah. Before I answer that, I will, to give a bit of context, we had a standing bass player for America.

Okay. because our bass player, Ryan, had just had a kid himself. And the bass player is called Sunny and he's from quite a big metal band down in Arizona. And he flew up and started like touring with us. And he had a word with me and had a word with Jules, the drummer as well. And he was like, Johnny does a,

it kind of like talks a lot on stage, doesn't it? And he's like, because he goes like, in the metal scene, you kind of play a song. And then you play another song. And he was like, it kind of like really confusing at the start. it was quite a long tour then by the end of it he kind of understood like the kind of like reasons for it and everything like that um i think like may maybe i should ask the boys more if i'm if they agree with everything i'm saying i i'm not sure i'm not sure i think they do i think they

broadly do i think um one of the things that we uh disagree on i think is that i think that I think the rest of them are lifeers in a way that I'm not in a way. So I think that they love, Jules especially our drummy just loves tour, loves tour so, so, so much. And we had a drummer, our drummer, Jack, who is actually filling in for the Buzzcox tour. It's the only ever member to have left under like good circumstances, basically. But he was very similar to me where his anxiety when he was away was just, it got so much. much that he had like he he had stepped down basically um he just was finding being away from home it was that year where we did those three tours back to back um and he just uh stepped down and like

went back to being an assistant PE teacher and this like living with his girlfriends and like just living that small life again um and when he did that i was so fucking jealous like i was so jealous of him that he could he could go back and do that even though i love this job as well But having Jack in the bands, we used to share a room when we were on tour. And we used to kind of just not wind each other up, but just kind of like he'd be really sad, missing home and getting anxious, which would then hit off my anxiety and kind of build and build like that. And now I'm a person who is definitely less accustomed to the roads,

but I'm surrounded by three absolute lifers, which, and the one thing that we say on tour as well. which is the thing that we started right at the start was that whatever you're feeling on the road is valid so and and whatever you do do not invalidate anyone else's feelings so if like i'm there i'm going i'm really missing home and then george is going yeah but this is a once-in-lifetime opportunity you're like touring the world that's kind of invalidating those feelings but then i shouldn't also be saying to him but you're not missing home kind of thing like yeah yeah yeah it's like whatever your feeling is valid. And now we hit the road and I hit the road with three boys that just

cannot, I used to, like, I've never said this, but I used to cry every time we left. And I had to drive the van because I was like, I need a focus. And I'd say goodbye to my wife who I've been with her for, we've been married for 12 years. I think we've been with it for 17 years. So like kind of pretty much half my life. I've been with her now. And like, we'd never spend like more than a few days apart and all these kind of things. And I used to cry every single time. But now having three boys that have a slightly different approach to the actual touring life now that are just, and like Jules is really young as well.

I think he's like 26, 27. So like he's got the fresh eyes and he's really excited. I think having getting in the van and with three boys that, yeah, they're going to miss home obviously, but are all like super pumped to go. It's so nice. getting in with Jack who we both kind of like look at each other and we both like literally be on the edge of tears. It's so mad. Oh, man.

Yeah, it's mad. But then the things that I say on stage, I think really, I don't think there's anything that I say that they like vehemently disagree with or anything like that. I reckon there's going to be stuff obviously that like they might, their eyes might roll a little bit or something like that or when they are or this sometimes I'll like I just. won't speak for as long as I usually do. And then George absolutely panics because he just zones out. He says he's like, and he's just having a bottle of water or something like that. He's going,

I've probably got about 90 seconds now just to kind of like chill out. And then sometimes, so the only thing that we ever, he ever has words with me is like, he's like, tell me if you're going to say less. And I was like, I don't know if I'm going to say less.

I don't know. But no, we've never had any conversations where it's like they've said you should not have said that thing. Like not yet anyway. But yeah, we definitely, they definitely don't agree with everything I say for sure. I think it must be, it's just so strange to me, like, I've no idea what it

would be like to be in your position to do your job. And equally, I've got no idea what it would be like to do Ryan's job and just kind of be part of the team, part of the crew, but also maybe, I'm not along for the ride at all, obviously like a valued part of the crew, but someone that isn't doing the mouthpieces, naturally, obviously my happy place is being on stage doing the talking. I'm crappin. double acts. Do you know what I'm like? I kind of, there's just something about it which doesn't, everything else is better about being

in a group or a double act, apart from the money and it's just for me it's too many cooks. And all my best mates are the same sort of personality type for whom it would also be too many cooks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. I think that's one of the reasons why our old bass player left as well, because he'd been the frontman of every single band that he'd been in. I think apart from one like really far back

in the day. And I think he really struggled with the fact that it liked just to be the, or not just, but to be the bass player of a band. He just like found it really hard to cope with. And then he left and went and formed, well, reformed his own bands that he was like singing in and playing in and all those kind of things. But I think we're really lucky with all of the members of the band, but especially because they, there's things like we'll finish and I'll run straight to selling merch, which is a very valid and valued part of it, but then also there's a queue of people ready to tell,

tell us what a great job we've done, hopefully anyway. And so I'm there kind of having those conversations and everything, whilst, because we can't afford crew or anything like that. So like, Jaws is literally like packing up his drums and stuff, and then I might run a vinyl over and go, oh, can you sign this?

And then, like, run it back and everything. But I think that they all just take what they do really, really seriously and love it so much. And as you said, like with the money side and everything, we've always split everything completely four ways. And always will. Always will. Because I think that's the way that a band stays together.

And also like, like Jules and Ryan, like amazing musicians, I can never do what either of them do at all. I play a bit of bass. I can never do what Ryan does. I can never do what Jules does. Like they're incredible. And they take their roles so, so serious. and are so good at it

and being in a band is so much more and being good on your instrument and being good on stage. It's about being somebody who's like conscientious in like a backstage space and we're all like we're in the van together but then we're often like kind of like crammed into the same hotel room where we're not just sharing rooms.

We're often like sharing beds and all those kind of things because you just have to keep costs down so much. So you want someone that's like respectful with other people and like someone that like looks after like someone that's like high. genic is one of the things as well genuinely. And like someone that just like looks after everyone else as much as they can, gives each other space when they can and everything.

And just like, yeah, works massively hard. And they do that. And they definitely get like satisfaction out of playing the shows as well. We played a show the other day actually. This is one thing that I think we kind of disagree on where we played. It was mad. It was this place called Senshire. in somewhere in southern Germany.

I think it's like southwest Germany. This tiny little village and they've been putting on for 20 years, no, 25 years, since year 2000, they've been putting on this punk festival in like a 300-capped like village hall basically. And we turned up and I was like, is this right?

And we were like staying with the villagers and stuff like that. Like we were just staying in their houses. We had our own space to sleep and everything. And we were. on, I think we were on like about midnight or half 12 or something. We were like closing it up. And we went on and the place was rammed and like everyone was smoking.

And like everyone was like crowd surfing and everything. There was massive circle pits. And I went off and I was like, God, that was carnage. I couldn't I couldn't say anything between any of the songs or anything like that because it was literally, I'd just paint in the broadest strokes possible. Yeah, yeah. Like we, the bar was in the room and everything. So like everyone, like it was to the point where like one of the things that did just for fun is that me and our support at had a crowd surf race to the bar to get a shot. Yeah.

It was like that kind of like managing that carnage. And I walked off and I was like, God, that was that was hard work. And the boys went off and went, that's the best show we've played for so long. And they loved it so much. Because they didn't have to keep that focus in the same way. They just had to like, like George was in the crowd. for most of it and stuff. And it's like, they loved that.

And I was like, yeah, but we didn't get to tell the story in the same way we'd tell the story of the band. Yeah, yeah. So, listen, before we wrap up, one of the things that's obviously going to be on your mind is the fact that you're having a kid. And that's not going to make it any easier to leave the house. I mean, that you must be aware that that's like, you know, the push chair in the hallway. Like, that's a real thing.

I've completely changed. in the 10 years my kids have been around, I've completely changed from someone who was like adventure comedian. I always think of Henry Rollins on one of his spoken word albums going, do you want to pick apples in Albania? Yeah, do I mean? Like, say yes to everything, go everywhere,

travel over the place. And I've loved that. And now I'm much more, I mean, I personally, I think probably during the pandemic, I picked up a little bit of agoraphobia because I don't want to be so far away from my kids that if something mental happens, AI, war, climate, pandemic, whatever it is,

I want to be able to get home to my fucking kids. So if I have more than two nights away, I'm a little bit edgy. Like, given that you are the linchpin of the band, how do you feel about what it's going to look like? I mean, you know, babies, babies are fantastic, but they're pretty boring. And provided you've got good support and you're sharing the parenting with your co-parent,

you can, you don't need to be with them. You're looking after them. When they get old enough to talk to you and they're the most fun, they do your new best mate, and you just want to spend every second with them. Yeah. That's going to be hard for getting out the door

and going on tour for a month or two months or three months. How are you imagining coping with that? I don't know. Basically, I do not know. It's the answer because I'm such a home person anyway. Our life got like 10 times harder to leave when we got a dog. Generally. The first time away to America.

Are these the pet needs of the title? that's it like so like I think like having a child it's going to be like yeah so much harder to go away it's made me even more determined to make it work over the next couple of years because I've always thought oh yeah God absolutely yeah you're on time limit I remember thinking you have a kid you're like Jesus I've got five years to get off the circuit now that's good before yeah yeah yeah that's good and it's going to yeah and it's similar here now and we're at a point like I mean every year we think we're at the point and then we get a little bit bigger every single year and when we're at the, we think, right, this is the point where it's like,

and like, because at the start, I used to think that making it would be doing it as a job. And I've done it full time with no side hustles for, I mean, to the fifth year now. So it's almost half a decade of doing it as a job. But I think now, like you're saying, like getting off the circuit, I think making it would be to the point that you could earn enough from what you're doing. So you had some sort of choice. because at the moment we don't really have choice

it's just go where the work is when the work is just go go go obviously you're only going to get booked for things that they think that you're going to do well and all those kind of things but for the first time this year we've not renewed our American visas we've been doing loads of work out in America

mainly because well one because we love the punk scene out there but two because I think punk music's really important out there at the moment and the kind of community building that we do out there. Obviously, it's very small in the grand scheme of things, but I think it's important to be there.

But we're not renewing our American visas yet. Unless something huge comes out, you just don't know, that's the thing. Something huge might come along. There's a chance that we might be, again, long list, shortlist, all this kind of stuff. We might be going on tour in June around Europe for about three weeks with a really cool band.

and the baby is due in May. And I think if I do go in June, it's probably going to be the best thing for me, like kind of get back on the bike kind of thing. Well, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think pet needs will ever split up. I don't think it can as long as we're still doing creative things to go.

It's my brother in the band as well. That's the thing. So it's not as if we all just suddenly go our separate ways. Like, I think that we'll always do something. stuff, we'll always do so. And we've been doing it for 10 years. I think just life is going to look a lot different. But we are at that point. We're at that point. Like this, like when we did the tour, we were kind of like playing rooms the same size that you saw us play. And that was the point now where the fees are kind of getting to a point where it kind of tip like your cost.

Yeah, there's a flip, right? There's a certain number of, there's a certain cap. And you go, oh, suddenly I'm making money rather than clinging on. Yeah. That's it. And when we did the, we sold out a 600 in London and it's like, okay, cool. Because like we used to be going out literally about four years ago. We got out about 70 quids between four of us. Like it's not. And that's just because that was the tickets you were selling. Like we were selling like 50 tickets somewhere or something. And after all the costs and everything. So it's making us determine. Because there's babies flying around everywhere in our band at the moment. And it's making us determined over like there's almost like,

like a kind of not desperation, but a real ambition to like get this as big as possible now. And then you can make the decision from there, right? Like either it's going to be big enough that then you can make a choice and just do like one American tour, one German tour, one UK tour and all the festivals and hopefully make enough money. Because the other thing is, if you do make enough money, being a Tory musician can be like a really privileged position to be in as a dad because when you're home, you're so home.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like you are so home. So imagine if we only had to tour for three months of the year. I mean, it's still a long time to be away. But if we only had to tour for three months of the year, we don't need loads of money. Like obviously now it's instead of just scraping by, it's kind of need to provide as well.

But we don't need loads and loads of money. And there's different kind of side hustles we could do if we needed to. But if I could be away for three months of the year, year, but then home for nine months of the year. That kind of like balances out if I was away for eight hours a day, Monday to Friday. 100%. My kids are forever trying to guilt trip me for going away and gigging. I'm about to go to the States tomorrow for 10 days. And that's the longest I've been away from them for four years. I think I did a two-week Edinburgh run. So it's a long old time. I'm feeling a bit jittery about it. They're guilt-ripping me. And I have to be really firm with them and go,

you've got me on toast. I'm all you're used to. So you've got no idea. I drop you off at school most mornings. I often pick you up. Very few other dads are doing that. Do I mean? Like, we've got a really sweet setup. And then the next part of it is you have to get the kids to somehow appreciate or show gratitude for how sweet the setup is that you've carved with your bare hands, you know, because they're used to it. So who knows?

I hope that you one day have the fun problem of your kids saying, I can't believe you've got to go away on tour for three months. And you're like, I'm here every other minute. And they're like, yeah, none of the other dads go on tour. You're like, right, this is a good problem to have. Do you have any advice at all for an expectant parent who works in the kind of stuff we do? You're going to explode. All of your molecules are going to explode. Your personality is just going to explode.

And it'll take a few years for you to pull all of your molecules back together. And then you will be a different version of yourself. and it'll be amazing. And it will be boring to begin with. You'll be so hyped up and then, you know, with all best wishes for a boring birth and a boring,

do I mean? Let's have everything as boring as possible. And it is, I was a bit like, I was a bit like, you know, you are, in the words of Mike Babiglia, a pudgy milkless vice president

for a good while. And that's kind of nuts. And you just have to go, oh, I've exploded. I don't get anything I want anymore. My role is support. I'm catering. I'm support.

I'm, you know, like rigging. You've got to make everything work. It's a great role to have. I went mad doing DIY in a way that I only looked back on afterwards and went, oh, I was feathering the nest. I was like at a concrete breaker in our cellar and I was trying to make it nicer in the cellar and stuff. Madness. But I think that the, you know, there's the tunnel. There's basically your personality bursts and you're in a tunnel for a couple of years and you get by and you support each other.

and it is not rewarding. Having a baby is not rewarding, I think. Obviously, it's the most fundamental, wonderful, best thing in the world, of course. But you're like, okay, this is still incredible, but I am, this is not rewarding. And then there is this moment when you come out of the tunnel and you go, oh, my God, I'm myself again. And now I've just created excellent humans. And it's indescribably wonderful. Yeah, hang in there.

Hang in there, champ, is all the advice I've got, you know. And just be kind to each other. And if you go in, you might go in again, right? You know, you forget how awful the early days were and you're like, let's go in again. You're going to, you know, the lack of sleep. Who knows, maybe you'll get a sleeper. Maybe you won't. And, yeah, it's, you know, the lack of sleep can send you absolutely bananas.

You get two hours sleep at most in a, you know what I mean? Two and then we wake up in an hour and then awake and what have you. And that can be personality altering, but you just have to hang. in there until you emerge and then when you emerge, oh my God, it's the best thing in the world. Yeah. Oh, mate. Did you still gig as well? Do you still gig for the first couple? Yeah, I gigged on the night of my son's birth accidentally.

I've been awake for 36 hours. I've got, hang on, this. This was a show title I never used. It was my sixth show was going to be called. This is actually my sixth rodeo. I don't know if you can see that with the lights on. So that's a photo of me taken on stage, having been awake for 36 hours on the night of my son's birth.

because I turned up at my mate's comedy club and I said to my friends Pete and Daryl and my mate Andre who's a photographer and I said I kind of turned out I just wanted to stop off I'd been sent home from the hospital and my wife and baby recovering and I've been sent home and I just

it's on the way home I'm just gonna pop in I was like lad I'm a dad one of them gets off the phone and they go incognito's just pulled out last minute can you go on so that's that gig oh my god that's so not

about having become a dad that moment it was a wonderful rich tapestry of life kind of moment I did gig. This is my job and we needed the money so I gig and my gigs my gigs are sort of as you know with a comic you're not really

going on tour or the work I was doing it was circuit so I could pick and choose I could kind of I'd saved up in advance so I could go right we're putting four loads of fairy lights in this room and this is our nest for the next three months and I had the wonderful freedom of being able to go I'm mostly here rather than tied to a paternity leave

kind of thing and then yeah then it's a long slow kind of rebuilding and then a pandemic happened and that confused things and who knows. But it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's like, it's like, it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's just, it's trying to describe taking acid to someone who's never taken acid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, cannot fathom the change, but it's completely wonderful and I'm sure you'll be an amazing dad. You're a, you're a, you're a sort of emotionally intelligent man and, um, I'm sure it's going to be

great. Yeah. Oh, thanks, mate. Yeah. And I'm excited to hear the songs. And I'm excited to hear the songs that you sing to your child and then eventually put on an album. Yeah, yeah. Well, she's a Taylor Swift fan so far. We've been playing stuff through the, through the site. Taylor Swift and Kendrick Lamara, her too at the moment. There is nothing like sharing with your child a precious thing to you and having them love it. There's nothing like it. I'm reading Guards, guards by Terry Pratchett to my 10 year old at the moment, and it's just kicked in and he's like, can we have some more? And I'm like, yes. Oh, that's so cool. That's so cool. Yeah, man. That's wonderful. Thank you so much.

If this were the podcast, I'd be wrapping you up and asking you if you're happy. Are you happy, Johnny? I am, you know, I am. Like, I'm, like, anxious about the world and anxious about my future. But then I've been anxious about everything forever. But I'm the happiest I've ever been, for sure. We didn't spend much time on anxiety. I am, as you know, a chronic anxiety person as well.

Do you have, for other anxiety people listening, What's the most effective strategy that you've ever employed? A mantra or a way of thinking, a schema, whatever it is, that you're like, maybe this or, you know, this helps. The best thing that I've ever, because I often get hyper-focused on things that are essentially important as well. Like, for example, like this album campaign, like, it'll be amazing if we get in the top 10.

It'll be incredible. It could, like, change our career. But it's not a life-for-death thing. And it's someone that, when I used to work at a student's union, I used to put an event, so I was getting quite stressed about an event. And it was the guy that ran the sports section. He told me the 10, 10, 10 theory. And he's like, right, think about how you're going to feel about, think about the worst outcome

or like the bad outcome and think about how you're going to feel about it in 10 minutes and then 10 hours and then 10 days and then 10 months and then 10 years. And just think about how it's going to be for all those times. And it just helps kind of like reground you. but also kind of realize how in the grand scheme of things how small it is

the issue that's kind of like keeping you awake at night and stuff and often if it's something like for example if we've had a terrible gig or like a guitar aunt blew up or something I'd go home and I'm feeling like awful even in 10 weeks

I mean in 10 hours I'm probably still thinking about it but in 10 days we'll be chatting about it in 10 weeks it'll just be a thing of the past So this is Johnny. Hey Johnny, if you're listening. Are you going to really, are you going to make the band listen to this on tour like you do with the other coms? Hello, the rest of the band. I love you. And I apologize for the amount of times you've had the amount of hours on the road you've had to spend listening to my voice. But at least maybe now you might know what my weird head looks like. So drive carefully, watch out. Okay, good. Pet Needs 4th studio album. Elbows out. This is capitalism. It's out now. Wherever you get your records and your music, find out more from Pet Needsband.com. Thank you to Johnny and the rest of the band and everyone on his, everyone is his label. Do we call it labels? We probably do. Everyone is his label. Everyone at my label is, well, I suppose it's kind of chambers management and all of that squad.

But the Comcom label is more specifically. Callum Morin, evil producer Callum is the producer of the show. and Susie Lewis does the logging and much more besides I've been Stuart Goldsmith and if you enjoyed this episode you can get access to exclusive extras that you can't find anywhere else by joining the Insiders Club

go to patreon.com slash insom... no Patreon.com slash comcompod and for extra stuff from Johnny including some parallels between songwriting and stand-up the strange pressure of releasing new music how lifestyle changes have shaped the band

and touring life on a budget. Stuartgoldsmith.com slash comedy to see me live. And yeah, what do you think? How did you find that? Get in touch and let me know what you thought of the non-compod. Because we could do more non-com pods. It's a breath of fresh air for me. I don't want to dilute the brand,

but I think after 500 odd episodes, I'm allowed to dilute the brand. So if you would like to see more creative and interesting people who aren't necessarily in the world of comedy and would like to punt them to me, then I think they've got to be people. Yeah, just go for it. And we'll just do it on a case-by-case basis

because I am very happy to make exceptions because I'm the boss. So maybe we'll do some more. Thank you, everybody. The music was by Rob Smountain, of course, and thank you very much to our insider producers, Hacker Spiller, Dave Powell, Simmons, Alan Lucas, McClellan, Swarbrick,

McEroll, Wormel and Burry. And a big thank you to our two special insider executive producers, Neil Punks Not Dead Peters and Andrew Punkers Denant Denant and to the Super Secret one as well Thank you everybody I've okay eight minutes left and I go and collect the kids

Netflix is a joke hey Oh I'll officially end the show here Please try and retain a consistent sense of self And if you would like to Stick around for a post-amble Which is clearly all going to be Whanging on about Netflix Then do so now

So I didn't realise when they first talked about the gig and when they first offered me the gig, the lineup was going to be 100% murderers. And it's one thing to be host, like, I'm so looking forward to it. And I'm just, I'm really,

I sort of blows my mind. I sort, it's one of those things I don't really believe it's going to happen. Something's going, I'm going to break my leg on and touch one. That's not a thing, is it? Touch it back to undo it. I, it's one of those. things where I'm like, this is really, this really going to happen? There's another iron in the fire at the moment and that one, surely that can't happen. But this one, so exciting, very pleased. It's going

to be lovely to meet Jean Marco in person for the first time and very, I'll be looking forward to seeing Beth. I love Beth telling. She's great and a fun person to hang out with as well. Kat Cohen, I know less well. She was on the pod, but it was very, it was a pandemic pod and I think like no one could be I shouldn't have been doing podcast in the pandemic because everyone was just like what's your process like God I don't know but she is just a magnificent comic

the idea of working with Robbie Hoffman is so exciting she is just brilliant and Christella Alonzo and Jimmy O'Yang I've seen little clips of them here and there and they're both great and Esteban Gast as well who is another of very very few climate specialising comedians

in the world So, huge line-up, Adam McKeigh, he's going to say McKay, isn't there's no way he pronounces it, Mackay, like a Scott. Maybe he does. How is he, I've got to find out loads more about him, but I do, I do feel confident. I've seen the big short like four times. I love that movie, so I feel very, like, I don't feel like, oh, I'm meeting someone outside of my lane. So that's going to be great. So it's a funny old, it's a funny, I was bending down there to catch, you might hear this noise.

in the background. Can you hear that? I've got a little sort of yolk-coloured hacky sack that I occasionally play with. It's not a cuddly toy. It's just a little soft thing that I like to fiddle with and I just dropped it and picked it up. So, God, am I 48? It doesn't matter. Age is just

a number that ticks up and down. I would like to calm down. And I would like to just reflect for a moment on how, like I'm so excited it and let's face it, who doesn't want to have Netflix as a joke on their biog for the rest of

their life? That'll sit very snugly up there. Some little accolades. But also, just as festivals go, it's going to be deep, it's almost the exact opposite of the McCunkincliffe Comedy Festival, which is, not in L.A., but in a small, technically city, small town in Wales, and in which loads of comics that I know really, really well, and loads of exciting new comics that I can't wait to know well, will all be doing beautiful, tender, experimental, soft, kind of urgent, very funny stuff, all within a stone's throw of each other,

all compressed into one place where you can't walk down the street without seeing someone that you think is incredible or your best mate or whatever. Wonderful. Then, L.A., is it like made of 22 different cities? Is that how it works? 21, 22? Different cities all just rammed together. And the festival, Netflix is a joke, is on all over the city. And there's only two or sometimes three shows a night amongst like 15 venues, all of which are miles and miles apart. So also, most people going there probably live there or know loads of people who live there. So I'm going to feel very alone. And I don't know what I'm going to do during the day. I do have a couple of pals there. I'll try and see Matt Kirshin. I'll try and see Sharon Mahoney. But from what I discover, from what I have ascertained, I don't think there's even sort of a central hub or a hang, because everyone's just busy being in LA. And I'm going to nail my colours to the mast and say that I find that potentially intimidating.

What, which self shall I be? Particularly the other way, because I thought it was going to be, the other slightly intimidating aspect is because I had thought it was initially an entirely climate-focused show, I was like, hey, stand, make way for sustainability big bollocks over here. I've got loads on this. Whereas now I'm like, oh, it can sort of be about anything, about, you know, panicking, you know, state of emergency. Not that climate is about panicking or should be. But now I'm like, oh, I thought all these killers were going to have to write some new stuff about the climate.

But no, they're all going to be bringing their absolute A game, which of course is what I want. and I'd much rather be hosting people of this calibre rather than following them, let's be honest. But let's also back myself. I can follow beasts in the past. I can do it again. It's basically just, I'm really stoked about it. I'm really, do you know what?

I feel, I tell you what it is. I feel very young as a comic again. It makes me feel like a junior guy. Like the first time I went to South by, I was like, oh my God, I'm such an outsider. and it's quite nice to remember that. That's part of the fun novelty. Now, listen, if you're someone who feels like an outsider to the circuit wherever you are, if you're just at the stage of doing open mics on pro bills or open mics just full of open mics where you want to get on a pro bill, then all I would say is there may, if you're lucky with, if you work hard and you get a bit of luck and a following wind, is that a following wind? Sounds wrong. If it all works out, you will get the opportunity. to get bored of all the great comedy stuff that you do. I think, I'm not saying you will, but you'll have the opportunity to get bored. So crazy as it may seem to remember how exciting it is right now, that's a good thing to cling on to, even if it feels like, is this just rose-tinted

glass? I think it was excited. I definitely found the first 10 years of comedy really exciting. And then the second 10 years of comedy have been exciting in a very different way. More exciting stuff arguably has happened. But like your first paid gig, yeah, chasing that high for the rest of your life. So I suppose this is just, I'm trying to think of this as a positive way. Is this the EMDR working? Rather than turning this into a big problem, as I ordinarily would do, I'm looking at this line up of killers and going, yeah, great, thrilled to be on that. And I'll get to feel like a plucky young outsider as well that's all new.

And that will be fun and remind me of starting. I think it's win, win, win. Bye for now.