The Comedian's Comedian Podcast - Joyelle Nicole Johnson

Episode Date: March 12, 2026

Joyelle Nicole Johnson is a US comedian known for bringing joy to the stage! Joyelle has performed on Late Night with Seth Meyers, is the permanent guest host on Sirius XM's Godfrey Complex and is currently the warm up comic for Hasan Minhaj's Patriot Act on Netflix.In this episode we discuss:why American comedians are seriously considering leaving the USlearning to tell brutal truths while still keeping the audience onsidewhy nerves can be a sign of respect for the audiencethe night a heckler rushed the stage during her set in Harlemhow artists can’t thrive creatively when they don’t feel safewhy becoming a comedian requires “a little bit of delusion”and we find out if Joyelle is happy...Join the Insiders Club at Patreon.com/ComComPod where you can instantly WATCH the full episode and get access to 15 minutes of exclusive extras including:learning to use your voicehow people cosplay comfortand why influencers often fail on stage👉 Sign up to the NEW ComComPod Mailing List and follow the show on Instagram, YouTube & TikTok.Catch Up with Joyelle: Joyelle’s special Lovejoy is out now on Peacock if you’re in the US and you can listen to her album Yell Joy at Blonde Medicine. You can also follow on Instagram, @JoyelleNicole.Support our independently produced Podcast from only £3/month at Patreon.com/ComComPod:✅ Instant access to full video and ad-free audio episodes✅ 15 minutes of exclusive extra content with Joyelle✅ Early access to new episodes where possible✅ Exclusive membership offerings including weekly(ish) Stu&AsPLUS you’ll get access to the full back catalogue of extras you can find nowhere else!Everything I'm up to: Come and see me LIVE including dates in Bristol, London, Manchester, Stoke, Marlborough and Mach! Find out all the info and more at stuartgoldsmith.com/comedy.Discover my comedy about the climate crisis, for everyone from activists to CEOs, at stuartgoldsmith.com/climate. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, hello, welcome to the show. This is, oh, that rhymed, I feel terrible. This is Stuart Goldsmith and welcome to the comedians, comedian's comedian podcast in which I take the heads of your favourite comedians and crack them open gently and with love to find out all about their creative processes, their resilience and so much more. And today, it is the turn of Joyelle Nicole Johnson, who I first encountered at South by Southwest a few years ago. She's a comedian from the US known for bringing joy to the stage. You'll know. her from Late Night with Seth Myers. She's the permanent guest host on Sirius XM's Godfrey Complex and she's currently the warm-up comic for Hassan Menage's Patriot Act on Netflix. So in the first half

of this episode we're going to talk to Joyelle about, and this one, I really should say this is one of those episodes where an aspect of Joyal's life, which I didn't know at all, really, it became all about, this conversation becomes all about that aspect. And I can't wait to bring it to you. So we will talk about family members seeing your stand-up persona for the first time. We'll talk about why American comedians are seriously considering leaving the US, and this episode was recorded something like eight or nine months ago. So the political headwinds that we have now were just kind of really whipping up into a frenzy. We'll learn about learning to tell brutal truths while still keeping the audience on side, and why nerves can be a sign

of respect for the audience. There is more for this conversation with Joyelle on The Insiders Club, which you can join at patreon.com.com.com for only £3 a month or more. You get instant ad-free access to the full video and audio plus extra content with Joyell. A brand new format stew and a every week, the most recent one where me doing a little before and after of a gig in Paris just outside the Eiffel Tower is now live. Bonus extra, extra content like way back when in 2021, we had a live James Acaster Q&A. that recording is up there as well, and you get a warm, fuzzy feeling. So patreon.com slash concom pod for all of the extra content, but most importantly, the warm, fuzzy feeling.

Here, at long last, is Joyelle Nicole Johnson. Hey, Joyelle, it's been years. I know. Hello, Stuart. How are you? I'm really well, thank you. I'm really well. And you're really well. Clearly, you're glowing. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Hanging on my thread. Yeah, is that right?

Yeah, of course. Well, listen, I never know when I'm interviewing American guests in America at what point to introduce the line of questioning of, whoa, how are you coping with everything? I mean, I was listening back to your special on Spotify just this morning, and there's a bit of material about scoping out Amsterdam for when America goes full handmade. And I was very jarring to hear.

So let's start. there. How are you coping with America? I hate that that joke is evergreen. I hate that I wrote that joke in 2017 and that it is still so relevant right now and that it still it gives the same reaction from the audience and even more enhanced now because it just seems even realer. Sorry, it seems even realer now. Yeah, I'm in a moving mindset. I have the idea. I have the idea. So they say that's the first step in moving abroad is the ideation. So I'm in the ideation of moving abroad right now. Oh, my God.

Okay, that's a pretty, and does that, that feels like a, I'm not going to say an extreme step. It feels like a big concrete step. Is that mirrored amongst your community? Is that happening amongst comics? Comics of color, female comics. Is there a lot of that? I have a few personal friends who are looking into the move as well. I have a family member who lives in Bangkok right now.

She was very much like, I'm leaving and she is in Bangkok. So I have some friends. I have like a group of really close friends that we're all figuring out which country makes the most sense. Oh, where are you thinking at the moment? What's the... I love Paris from the bottom of my heart. I don't speak French, but I love Paris. Everybody speaks English there.

I'm willing to learn French. I speak a little Spanish. I like Spain. I'm willing to deep dive into Spanish. And the UK seems like an option because I speak that language. You do. Very well, may I say.

As it stands. It's my first language. Oh, my God. So this is really, I mean, it's hard. It might be hard for me as an English person in England to just appreciate the weight of the shift in the culture in the states right now. Like I'm used to talking to American comics,

most of whom I think club comics would say, well, you've got to be able to perform to both audiences. You've got to perform in red states and in blue states. How has things changed, have things changed in the last few years, in your apprehension of your audience? Because I would imagine if they're a Trump voting audience, that really means something pretty significant now, does it? Absolutely. I mean, in the last few months, since November, I've realized when I travel outside of my little bubble of Brooklyn, I love my bubble of Brooklyn. When I leave it to go to other places, I don't feel as safe anymore. There's certain people where you're just having a conversation with a stranger, and then they'll say something like, there's only two genders. Like, this happened to me in North Carolina, where I was telling a guy, you know, I was like, I don't really feel

safe anymore and I feel safe in Brooklyn. He's like, you feel safe in Brooklyn? Because, you know, these people think New York is, you know, like New Jack City and just everyone's getting shot and robbed all the time. So I told him I feel safer there and he was like, what? And I was like, yeah, I never know who I'm talking to. And then not two minutes later. He was like, there's only two genders.

No one asked him about genders. I don't even know. I don't even know how he got on it. But the irony was he had been talking about how he's never been any one. He was like, I live on a farm, you know, and we're in Asheville. We were in Asheville, North Carolina. Him and his wife were there for their 10-year anniversary. And he's like, we came to the big city of Asheville, North Carolina for their anniversary.

And he was saying, I've never been on, I've only been on an airplane once. But you know that there are only two, you, you ain't been nowhere, you ain't seen nothing, you ain't met nobody. But what you do know. So it's that it's the dealing with. You just never know what you're dealing with at these points. I mean, and I get into arguments with people in the streets. So it's not safe for me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we'll come on to what I think of as your kind of, I wouldn't say argumentative, but this funny thing happened as I was sort of consuming more of your stuff. We worked together in South by a couple of years ago. And like the biggest thing I remember about you is how incredibly warm you are. And then the more of your material I heard, I was like, Oh my God, Jail is such a bitch.

Yes. I could be a bitch. I could be a bitch. She's in there. I love that part of me. Because I tried to quiet her down growing up and now she is thriving. Yes. Well, maybe let's return to America in a bit, but let's talk about that aspect of your, of your persona on stage and the kind of your authenticity on stage.

Because I feel like we're all, as an audience, we're all just basking in sunshine. whilst you say some, like, they're not, I don't think they're offensive things, but like you're really, you're really good at just telling the truth. You're really good at going, well, of course, I'm like this, and I feel like this, and these things are horrible, whilst we kind of bask in the glow. So take us back to you as a younger person feeling unable to say those things.

It's comedy like an outlet for you to be able to say that stuff? Oh, absolutely. I remember some of my earliest thoughts not feeling safe around grownups. I mean, I just remember being like five years old, being like, these big people are supposed to know what's going on, but I don't think they do. And I just remember being like, I'm not sure they all have it together. I mean, my past, my history is having, I had a deadbeat dad, surprise, black girl, deadbeat dad, American.

And so growing up from that perspective, I was always untrustworthy of adults and caretakers and things like that because my father didn't have it together. So as I got older, I was like, oh, yeah, adults don't have it together. And what I did work on in therapy was using my voice and being able to call that out and not keep it inside because. when I was young all the way through school, I would just keep it inside and observe. Yes. But now instead I've switched it and now I can speak about it. And as a younger person, that feeling of, like, was it a pressure to kind of keep it inside? It sounds there like you've kind of owned that, but like, you know what I mean?

I was keeping it inside and observing, but that must have not been pleasant. Like that idea of being five and kind of, yeah, um, being like feeling unsafe and recognizing that the adults around you were unsafe or were letting you down in their responsibilities to you. Yes, yes. It did. It did feel like a bubbling, like a gasket that was about to burst because I was like, wait, what, huh? That shouldn't be the case. And, you know, there's a few times in my life where I tried to say something and I was shut up. So I was like, I learned that, oh, no, I shouldn't, I shouldn't speak up. So I had. had to unlearn that and I've been unlearning that for all of my adulthood. And was there any, what about the kids around you? I mean, you kind of made a joke there about like, surprise, surprise, a black girl with a deadbeat dad.

Were there other deadbeat dad encumbered kids that you were friends with? Could you, maybe not at five, but maybe say when you're like 10, 12, something like that, were you in a position to kind of share or get any kind of pressure release on that gasket from other kids around you? Was there a lot of that going on? Yes, one of my aunts had foster children. So I grew up with a lot of foster children in New Jersey. Shout out to Jersey.

So I grew up with a lot of foster kids, and we kind of all commiserated in, because the thing about foster kids is they don't have either one of their parents. At least I have my mother. My mother was a fantastic, great single mother who raised me, but I also had the perspective. from these foster children who didn't have either one of their parents.

So we'd all commiserate together and sometimes they would make fun of me and be like, you don't want who got a mother, which is a weird, a weird thing to get bullied about. Amongst other children. So it's like, every, you know, the grass is always greener on someone else's side. Or it's like, I'm complaining because I just don't have a dad. And they're like, we don't have either one of our parents. Shut up. Yeah.

Yeah. So did that, did that harden you as a kid? Oh, absolutely. I think I had turtles are like my favorite animal. I can relate to turtles so much. It's just like the hard outer shell with the soft underbelly and the slow movements, slow and steady wins the race. So I love turtles. But yeah, I was hardened as a child. Yes. Okay. And did you any kind of longing for performing? Did you have any kind of experience of performance or seeing it or doing it yourself? Yeah, there's a video of me when I was about five years old reciting Twas the night before Christmas in front of my family. And I did the whole entire poem. And I don't know if you know, it's really long. And at five years old, I was able to memorize the whole thing and perform it.

So I always knew I wanted to be an entertainer on the stage. There was just a part of me that was scared of it after, you know, And once I started to get into middle school and high school, I was like, afraid of it. And then I was like, I kept pushing through. And I would literally audition for plays and stuff and I would burst into tears. So I was known in school for the girl who would cry at auditions. And then my senior year, I auditioned for this show choir. And I finished the audition.

And the teacher announces to the class. She's like, hey, everybody, this is the first time Joyelle hasn't cried. I was like, thanks. I immediately burst into tears. You bitch. Do you remember what it was you were scared of? Of people not liking me. Okay.

Yeah. People not liking me. Because also it's like, you know, if you grow up with the OG, your parent not caring for you, then it's like, oh my gosh, nobody cares about me. So I'm pursuing this art And I'm like, oh my gosh, What if no, what if I'm wrong and I'm not talented

And people don't like me. So yeah, that. And I mean, have you managed to deal with that now? Like at what point, assuming you have managed to deal with that, and I'm not suggesting you have that kind of thing can stay with a person forever.

Yeah, yeah. Like, have you managed to deal with it now? And if yes, at what point, like how long did that take? Because that is a big thing. Yes. I have managed to deal with it now. I still get nervous, obviously. Nerves are the respect we pay our audience.

But it was... Oh, I like that. I've not heard that before. That's good. Yes, it's a quote from Being Julia. It's a movie Annette Benning plays... Actually, an English actress, a stage actress from the 1930s, I think. And she says this to this... And that just resonated through my life.

We're like, nerves are the respect we pay our audience. So I still get nervous, but now I just know I'm confident enough to know that I'm funny, that I care, and that there's a kindness in the things that I'm saying because, you know, I want people to understand how I feel in the world. Yeah. Yeah. And did you as a kid, I don't think I've sort of asked this question before, but I'll just see how it comes out. Do you, did you as a kid or do you now have a kind of personal narrative of? who you were as a kid. Because it seems like that kind of idea of like,

oh, this is the kid that cries at the auditions. It just suddenly made me think there must be lots of ways that a person can sort of regard themselves as a kid. Like my own school days, I sort of, I don't know the reality of them, but in my opinion they were sort of like, I was really anxious. I was really sort of worried about being alone and I didn't feel like I fit in and stuff like that.

And it's so funny to me how many of those stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves then become over the year. concreted into fact. Right. Do you know what I mean? So do you, other than the kind of the girl crying at the audition, do you have a sort of sense of who little Joyel was,

what her kind of story was, how she fit into the world? Oh, I mean. I realized I said Little Joyle then, and it really sounded, it sounded like sweet to me as well. Yeah, her name is Nikki, actually. Oh, is that right? Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jail Nicole.

So my family calls me Nikki, and through therapy, I realized that two different personalities have developed because Nikki was my name until I went to school. And then in school, Joyelle was on the name sheet. So the teachers started calling me Joyelle and then two different personalities developed. Tell me everything about that in detail. That's incredible.

So yeah, so Nikki is shy. Nikki is anxious. Nikki is quiet and, you know, sitting in the corner. Nikki got bullied. Oh, my gosh, I got bullied so badly. Nikki didn't believe in herself. But there was something inside of me that when Joyelle started to develop, I was like, oh, I felt like a different person. I really felt the difference in the person.

And Beyonce calls her stage persona Sasha Fierce. So when she's on stage, she's like, it's Sasha Fierce on stage. It's not Beyonce on stage. So even for me, I'm like, it's Joelle on stage. Nikki is the inner child that I have learned to heal. But most of my life, it was Nikki who would always be like, don't do that. People aren't going to care. Like always kind of driving the car.

And my therapist was like, you have to stop letting a child drive the car. You're like, you have to put her in the business. backseat, buckle her up and say Joyelle's got this, and like give her a hug. Like a lot of people don't learn to do that. Yes, and I think there's something about the names

which is really sort of I mean, it's lovely to hear, but also I think it's, that probably helps that process to have a different name for it. I have a similar, I've been through lots of therapy and I think to recognize those separate like, oh, the scared kid and then the happy, confident

performer. And there's a relationship between them and one can transform from one into the other given certain triggers and there is a risk that given sort of bad triggers the super confident one can transform back into the scared kid. I wonder to the extent

like to what extent did the name help clarify that for you because what's lovely is I can see behind you you've got your album covers with the Joyelle name on them like your promo is Joyel and as someone who only has one name like my promo stuff is like

Sometimes I look at it and go, that's him. And sometimes I'm like, oh, that's the little kid. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I'm a bit jealous, I think. Yes, yes. And I didn't realize with like certain people, my partner, for example, his name is Dan. Daniel.

His family calls him Daniel. Work is Dan. I call him Danny. So he has three different names and personas kind of. So we all have that dichotomy within ourselves. But I do think I was lucky enough to be able to call mine a different name and to be able to realize when something happens to be like, oh, this is Nikki. Yes. Versus Joyelle presenting herself as an adult in the world.

And what are the triggers that bring Nikki out? You know, number one trigger is being around my family because they call me Nikki. So they're pulling Nikki out when they're calling me that name. And whenever any one of them tries to say Joyelle is. It sounds like they're speaking of foreign language. Like a lot of my family doesn't even know my name. I have a huge family. And I don't think most of them know my first.

I mean, now they do that. I do stand up and stuff. But growing up, they didn't know my first name. And vice versa, like somebody in my professional life tries to be like, Nikki. Like, it'll be when I bring my cousins out to hang out, they'll be calling me Nikki. And then a comedian would be like, I'm going to call you Nikki. And I'm like, no, no. No, you won't.

Absolutely. You won't. You can't. I will not answer to it. Yeah. Like, I can't be at the comedy seller. Somebody's like, Nikki, I'll be sitting there eating my french fries. Because I'm not, I'm not Nikki there, you know?

That is, I mean, it does sound like that's a sort of an ongoing part of your life, if that's coming up in conversation with a large extended family and what have you. The only thing that's kind of comparable for me is almost, like when I've interviewed drag performers. Yes. Because it's not the same as a character, is it? Because there's, and I think drag is the closest. Obviously, there are acts where their act is. I'm John Smith and I become whoever, you know,

and that's the character and they're a different nationality. How do you? With a drag performer, it's a bit more like this person has been inside me the whole time and there are a superhero version of myself into whom I transform. So it's a bit, has something maybe a bit more in common with that. Ooh, I like that. I like that thought. I'm like a drag queen.

I like that because it's like getting into a makeup, getting into a persona. And I actually would happen recently last year at a family reunion. I had a fight with one of my cousins. And the family was like, oh my God, because I was like yelling at her. And they were like, who, who is this? And I was like, oh, Joyelle came to the family reunion, not Nikki. And they were so shocked. Like, to this day, and my family would still be like, oh, my God, that time you yelled.

It's crazy to us because I was such a quiet. Wallflower Child and the fact that I do stand up blows people's minds who've known me my whole life. Yes. That's, I mean, that must be very satisfying. So this is Joyelle. I'm fascinated and really, really enjoying getting to grips with this wonderful concept of her voice. Joyelle's special Lovejoy is out now on Peacock if you're in the US. And you can also listen to her album, Yell Joy, at Bloss. blonde medicine and of course follow her on Instagram at Joyelle Nicole. Now you can see me live in Bristol, London, Manchester, Stoke, Marlborough and Mac and somewhere else, which I'm not allowed to

tell you about yet, but very soon. And you can find out more about my latest shows work and where I'm near you at Stuart Goldsmith.com slash comedy, where you can also sign up to the Concom Pod monthly mailing list, which we do actually do now. And we refer and kind of recommend free shows available on YouTube by Friends of the Podcast or just other people that we think are great. So it is actually worth joining the mailing list for the first time since the 14 years ago inception of this show. That's not fair.

There have been good things on the mailing list, but now there are routinely and consistently good things on the mailing list. Coming up in the second half, we will talk to Joelle about the night a heckler rushed the stage during her set in Harlem, why artists cannot thrive creatively when they don't feel safe, an incredible discovery she made about her DNA

and the complex historical interplay of that, I'll let her say that in her own words, and why becoming a comedian requires a little bit of delusion. All of that coming up right now, now. In fact, here's Joyelle. When it comes to the gears that you have for dealing with pressure situations, and not necessarily pressure gigs,

but maybe just like, you know, the gig's going great, but a joke got nothing. Those kind of like those things, there is a moment, it's by no means a bad joke, but there's a moment on your Spotify album where as a comic listening to it, I went, oh, that joke didn't get what it deserved.

And you do this lovely thing of just, you just giggle and then get onto the next bit. And I was like, oh, that's good. I've got to learn how to giggle. Do you know what I mean? It's just, it's almost like it's a, what does that mean? Like, is that a deliberate strategy?

Is it an honest reaction to just you're laughing that they're not finding it funny? Because I think cultivating a reaction like that is so powerful. Rather than a bit doesn't get what it deserves and the kind of the classic, the newer comics thing is to go, well, that deserve more or kind of draw attention to it.

I've certainly been guilty of that, and a lot of people have. But I think actually just being able to go, like the unspoken sentence behind the giggle is sort of like, oh, you didn't go for that, eh? But you lose that, just giggle, and then you're away. To the next.

I don't even know what bit you're talking about, but that's funny because I guess I realize I do do that. Because now it's very funny to me when people aren't laughing at something that is time-tested. So if I say a time-tested joke and you, there aren't laughing, that will make me laugh because I'm like, L-O-L, I don't know what's wrong with y'all. Once again, I'm not sure what side of the bench I woke up on. but I've told that joke, you know, dozens, hundreds of times, and it's funny. Well, I would love to cultivate that, but I suppose what I think, if a joke doesn't land, then it's a time-tested joke, as you say, I would think, oh, I, there's something about the context that I've either, maybe I missed part of the setup.

I think I'd panic. My big fear of mine is memory, like a big chink in my armour is memory, because I'm always, like a sort of deer in the headlights going, did I say all the things I? think I said. And even if it's not memory, then there could be, I could think, oh, I didn't, maybe that joke relies on me having won them earlier. Maybe there's something in the machinery of the joke that didn't fire and I didn't notice and what have you. I think I'm just very quick to go, you know, that way that, you know, comics say there's no such thing as a bad audience. And then I think by the time you're 10 years in, you're allowed to go, no, no, there are bad

audiences. There are bad audiences. Yeah. I just don't know if I've ever managed to cultivate that kind of self-belief in all situations? I mean, it took years, over a decade, to be able to be confident in that. Like I said, the therapy plus years in comedy coincided, and then I was able to have a confidence in what I'm saying and also in me being funny, you know, and just knowing like how I can speak now.

and when I'm talking even in conversation I'll be like oh that's funny and then say something and then you know get reaction in a conversational sense where I'm like ha ha yeah that was funny you know just I'm confident enough now to be like yeah that was funny and then you know if nobody says anything

like nothing no no one thought that okay funny to me I will say that that moment for a I don't I don't remember I can't pinpoint point in the moment for myself, but I definitely feel that you know you're a comic, you know you've become a real comic

when you write something and you just instinctively go, that'll work. That's going to work. That's going to work. I've not really kind of looked at that, I've not really dissected that moment before on the podcast, but there is certainly a moment where you go, that'll work, and then you go,

there's a little part of you going, oh, oh, I know now. I know now. I'm a big girl. Yeah, and maybe the greats can just write all the stuff and go, that'll work, then that'll work, then that'll work, then that'll work, you know. But for me, it's a bit less frequent than every sentence I write, you know. Absolutely. There is something really satisfying about that kind of moment.

So what's the first piece of material you remember doing that was like, this is my killer bit that is, that always works, but also is authentic and the sort of thing I want to do? Do you remember the first bit which you were like, this is me doing the right thing? I think it was one of the first jokes that I wrote. It was about going to asthma camp because I, yeah, and that reaction is what I would always get,

what I would tell people I went to asthma camp? And they're like, what are you talking about? And so when I started doing comedy, I sat down with a joke writer, Ian Edwards, who's a great joke right. Oh, I know Ian Edwards, yeah, fantastic. Yes. He helped me write my first joke and he was like, you know, what's happened in your life

was the start of the conversation and I mentioned asthma cap and he was like, wow, like that's crazy and he helped me with one of the punchlines but I wrote most of the bit myself but he helped me get to the funny of it because it was like, he was like, tell me about it. And what I was talking to him, like, he's laughing while I'm telling him about it. He was like, that, that, that, like, able to pinpoint what to get to and what to say. And that's where, like, like, you were asking about

being, like, authentic on stage. I always knew I wanted to be autobiographical and, and, um, authentic to myself because that's what I appreciated growing up and watching. in stand-up is when people talk about themselves and it makes you feel seen as a human being and then also helps other people, you know, helps people's day, I think. Yes, yes, I think, well, there's a couple of things I think about that. One is that, I think that is one of the,

it's one of the most fun elements of a conversation as a pro-comic, if you're helping someone maybe a little newer than yourself, a little further down the ladder, and actually you get, you go, just pause this stuff and just tell me truly what X, Y, Z is. And then they just unload a bunch of stuff. And you just find yourself going, why don't you just say that?

And then there's this light bulb moment of kind of going, oh, I should just, I'll just say the funny stuff that I think. I think it's parallel to that idea that you were talking about earlier on of like not cosplaying comfort, just actually being comfortable. Absolutely. I just did a show. I was just in Paris, you know, me scouted out places. and there's a girl who got on stage, beautiful girl, beautiful dress.

And she just kept being like, I'm a model, I'm a model. And everything was I'm a model. I'm a model. Crowd's not really reacting. She does an off-color thing about her kids. And she was like, yeah, I hate my kids. And everyone started laughing, but then she immediately goes back to I'm a model. And I'm like, bitch, talk about your kids.

We want to hear about your, why did you just say you hate your kids? I need you, I need to hear about that. And, you know, it's like, that to me was so obvious. But obviously it's not, it's not to everyone. And I was like, girl, can tell you with that bottle stuff if you want to, but the funny is in the kids. I don't want to hear about your kids. Yeah.

As someone who is like an autobiographical comic, and I think I may be asking this because you alluded to this in a, like I'm not suggesting it was true, In one of your bits on the album, you were talking about how, I think you made some allusion to, I'm dating, I went on this date with this guy because I needed the material. And I'm just, you know, I think we all know comics who, like, will report back on a thing and we'll be thinking,

did you just do that for the bit? To see what happened. I think everyone's been through phases of that. Yeah. But do you feel as an autobiographical comic, like, do you ever worry that you'll run out of things as someone who minds stories from your life? Is there ever a sense that like,

oh, what about what I've done all the plot? I mean, I don't think so, which, because life is never ending. I mean, life is ending, but material's never ending, you know? Yeah, you're right, I didn't pick you up on that. Life is, you're quite right, life is not, never ending.

Life is quite brief. But I don't, I've never thought about that. I've never thought. about the possibility of running out of material. I think about the possibility of running out of creativity and inspiration, which is scary to me. And that's part of what does worry me about being in America

is that I feel so stunted right now with writers block because I'm worried about safety. And do I feel safe here? And that is not a situation that allows artists to thrive. I mean, when I went to Paris, I did a black Paris tour, and it was about like James Baldwin and Josephine Baker leaving America to go to Paris because of persecution and feeling terrible and oppressed in America. And 1925 is when Josephine Baker left. It's the 100-year anniversary of Josephine Baker leaving America to go to Paris.

And 100 years later, I'm still thinking about leaving America for the same reason she left. 100 years ago. And that to me is baffling. But part of what specifically James Baldwin said is he was able to write in Paris. He was able to be free to write because he didn't have the freedom of thought. He didn't have, he had the freedom of thought to be, to feel safe and comfortable. And, you know, of course there's racism everywhere, but the racism in France is like, I don't know, diet, Coke zero. It's sort of hand-to-hand racism

as opposed to long-distance gun-based racism. Exactly. Like, yeah, I walked into a shop and I was like, do you speak English? And he goes, do you speak French? And I was like, you know what? I respect that. So I was like, that's the type of thing

that I'd rather deal with. So, yeah, I feel stunted and creativity here. That's, and is that because just to kind of, I mean, first, Jesus, sorry, that sounds so awful. That sounds so fucking. awful. It feels awful. We're just aghast in the UK at the

state of the ridiculousness coming out of the White House and it just feels like I mean that's a slightly more off topic but as it pertains to you and your creativity the is that kind of creative

arrest or the kind of the chilling effect on your creativity my assumption is that that is partly because of a sort of of an internal kind of like, I don't feel safe, I can't relax and be creative. And maybe, is it also partly because you don't feel you can actually speak your truth on stage through the fear of being physically attacked?

Do you feel like there's enough kind of mager people in your average comedy club audience that you can no longer improvise freely? Because as you kind of move into having effectively a tyrant king, I would imagine that, you know, like the performers of old under those situations would go, or, you know, performance, stand-ups in oppressive regimes now, anywhere in the world. Like if you say a particular joke about the king in Thailand, for example, that's a huge problem. And I wonder, does that, does that occur to you? Does that feel like, or is it simply a kind of, like an internal block to your creativity because you don't feel safe?

The block's internal. I have no fear of being attacked. I have actually, there was a, there's a situation I had in Harlem where I was roasted at his dude. so bad in front of his date and she started laughing at him and when she laughed at because the dude had been heckling the whole show he'd been a problem in the entire show and I had to close that show

and so by the time I got up there everybody in the crowd was tired of him and when I got up there I was like hey yo what the fuck and for me I'm good at like reading people and I was like you look like you don't have a job and then I turned to her I was like, you look like you drive her car all day

and bring it back without gas in it. And she laughed when I said that. The way he raged out and he started like walking towards me just menacingly, he was bigger than me and everything. I kept talking shit into that microphone. And I stood my ground on stage and he looked like he was about to pull back and punch me. The bouncer, I don't even know where he came from.

He came from the door, got his arm around this guy's neck, and pulled him down to the ground in a sleeper hold in a way that I was like, oh, you've been waiting for this moment for years. Like the bouncer was like, my moment! And dragged him out of the club. And I was still talking shit into the microphone. And he was outside like, wait till you come outside, bitch, wait till you come outside.

All of the comics walked me to my car afterwards. like a Pope Mobile. Like they were all blocked around me and just made sure I got my car, got home. He was not there anymore afterwards. But that was the moment I was like, oh, I'm not scared of that, which foolish for sure.

I shouldn't do stuff like that. But I was like, I'm not scared of because if you want to fight me because of my words, obviously that means my words are powerful enough and correct. If that means you want to fight me. Do you? And from the perspective of people listening to this who aspire to your fearlessness, who aspires your courage,

is there a way to achieve that without going through the horrible situation you went through that toughened you up? It's like, do you just get good at being unafraid after having been bullied and processed it? I don't know because I'm a descendant of slaves. I have visited my family slave plantation. I have met the descendants of my slave owners. So I know that things like that are what makes me the person I am today and part of my lack of fear. Because it's like, what's the worst that can happen? They bring back slavery, which they might do.

So, you know, having processed all of generational trauma and then getting bullied and, you know, my father issues and all that stuff. I know it made me the person I am today. And I can see certain comics who have had privileged lives being able to perform and have had no block to their creativity. I can tell that when I look at it on stage. But I do think that all of that has made me into the person I am today. Yeah. I don't want to gloss over the sentence.

I've met the descendants of my slave owners. Can you tell me a bit about that? Yes. My mother put, she did the 23 and me. And if you do that, they will give you all of the matches that you share any percentage of DNA with who have also done it down to like 1%. So it's like obviously as her child, I will be, you know, I have 50% of her DNA, 50% of my fathers. But I have, you know, 5% of DNA with this random person. And as it happened, my family's from one of the largest plantations in North Carolina.

And one of the guys from that descendant, a white man, he married a genealogist. And the genealogist did, you know, he researched everything and contacted all the descendants of the slaves of that plantation. And we had a family reunion in North Carolina. Oh, my God. When was that? perhaps right before the pandemic like 2018 I believe oh the pandemic put a break on so many fascinating things yes yes yes yes yes yes but I still keep in contact with one of my cousins and we have like a group family thing on Facebook

oh my god so I never realized that 23 and me and I think there's other I don't know why I'm protecting them like other weird genealogy DNA sites that then eventually sell all your data are available for sure But they allowed you to identify the person that you're, because I would have thought it would be like, oh, person X, you share that with them, but you never get to meet them. You've got in touch with her.

No. Yeah. I mean, they got in touch with her. They reached out to her. So it was like, you know, who's this person I share 5% DNA with or, you know, 8%? It was something that percentage. It was so low. And he reached out to everybody.

It realized that what we all had in common was this slave master. Warwick Hacaday Who is my... That sounds like I mean if you saw that name written down you'd be like Yeah probably slave owner He's like he was like

So he's my great great great I think three times a great grandfather Holy fucking shit Yeah wild right That's wild I feel like if I say How do you feel about that There's no way you can reasonably answer that question

That must be the most complex feeling imaginable. So complex. It's so complex. And we're in Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina, which is by this river, the Roanoke Rapids River. And we got to see, because it's part of the Underground Railroad where people would escape on this river because it would wipe away all the DNA. And to see this river and it was on a tame day, the way it was moving, I just thought about all the people who did not survive that trip. because that, I couldn't imagine that river during a storm.

Because the way it was moving on a regular day, I was like, wow, and it goes straight out to the Atlantic Ocean. And that's, you know, they would use that route and then get on like a boat and go up north to Canada or whatever, or New York. But yeah, very intense, very intense. So it's like things like that that I know about myself and have been able to see and touch. And it makes me not afraid to bomb on stage.

You're sure. Yeah, I mean, that certainly has put it in context, Joel. Thank you. Yes. Holy hell. So you're one of the things, okay, so you have this special love joy, which I'm afraid to say is not available in the UK by any means. Oh, because of peacock. It's blocked.

I guess I could have used a VPN if I was so inclined, but I learned that, worked that out too late. So all I know about it, I know your, yeah, I know a lot of your stand-up I've seen sort of clips in the trailer and what have you. But the other big thing I know about it is what's just behind your head in the screen now, which this is, it's called Lovejoy, and it's this incredible pink kind of chiffon outfit, enormous hair, and it's just so kind of glorious and pink and powerful an image. And so because that's all I know about the special, tell me about the relationship between that image and the special and the content of the special.

Oh my gosh. I think that's just me. Like, that's my vision of myself in my head at my most powerful. Like a pig powder puff. I am a powerful pig queen. And I think that's, yeah, that's what kind of like feeling that confidence and getting on stage. But also that's the little girl in me that loved tool and princess dresses and all that stuff. So it's a little bit of Nikki there.

But like, like, Joelle dressed as Nikki's ultimate fantasy of herself. Oh, beautiful. It did take me a second there. You said, tool. Is that what you, is that every pronounced? That's like, is that T-U-I-L-E or something? It's like a... T-U-L-L-E.

T-U-L-L-E-T-L-E. I thought very briefly that you meant the Prague rock band Tool. So, you know, Nikki, she was into Tool and princesses, and I'm like, this is like my own daughter. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Now the fluffy ballerina dresses and the like. And that's interesting.

That kind of comes back to obviously what we were saying earlier about that relationship between the little girl and the kind of superhero version of yourself. And I know that you're an abortion campaigner. Yes. Or you have been. And I would imagine you are still, given the current administration. Yes.

What is that? What is that? Oh, this is. Go on, is that your elevated access? Elevated access, yes. Elevated access is a group in America that is volunteer pilots who fly people who need abortion care and trans-affirming care from the red states to the free states. And there's like so many tiny airports all over America. And some of these airports are like closer to people's houses than a major airport.

So they'll pick people up. It's all secret. It's all anonymous. and fly them. They'll get their abortion, fly them back home. And yeah, we have a modern day underground railroad. It's an overground railroad. That's unbelievable.

Isn't that crazy? Isn't that crazy? That's what America has come to. And there's another story about that that I'll tell you off camera. Sure. Let's get into that later. Yeah, sure. But I did ask you when we were sort of going through the torture.

process of trying to make this happen over many years and lost emails. Yeah. But I asked you recently, like, can you send me a link to something you're particularly proud of? And you sent me that little video, like an Instagram video. People can see it on your, on your Instagram page. It's a pinned reel at the present

at the current moment. And it's you. What's the name of the show that you're appearing on? Is it like between... Subway takes. Subway takes. That's it. Subway takes. Between two subway cars. Well, for some reason, I had between. queen in my head.

So that's someone else's show that you were guesting on. Yes. And tell me a bit about the content of the stuff you were doing, because that's gone crazy. It's got like, you know, millions and millions of views. And I thought it was interesting that that was the bit you chose as like, to answer the question, send me something recently you're proud of. So talk to me about that because it really, it was fantastic. It's so funny. Thank you.

I appreciate that. The premise of the show is that, you know, it's a bunch of people talking shit on the subway. and they ask, you know, ask your take. And I had a couple of takes as the option, but I went with bring back segregation because that to me is the most authentic that I feel like that's my truth right now where I don't know if you know this,

but right after slavery ended and the Civil War, black communities were thriving. Like in North Carolina, white people had outnumbered themselves because there were so many slaves. My plantation alone had something like 250 slaves for one family. Most plantations were not that large, but they outnumbered themselves. So at the end of slavery, I think North Carolina was 70% black. And there are places all over the country.

Pockets where black people were thriving on their own. I don't know, you may have heard of Black Wall Street. Yes. That was one of the largest ones where we had our own banks, schools. everything and right after slavery during reconstruction, people were, black people were running for Congress and winning. So that's when they instated the Jim Crow laws that stopped all of that and because they saw that all of us together were thriving.

So my premise of bring back segregation is allowing black people, black Americans to thrive on their own and be able to develop communities able to develop community and infrastructure and money, financial gain, and then to be able to prosper in the world. But also these white people crazy out here. It's, I've been no argument with that. But it did strike me. Is that stuff, was that take a piece of stand-up? Have you performed that on stage or was it written for that? I've been thinking about performing that on stage, but I knew that that's a wild thing to say. and that's what a lot of the comments were like,

whoa, crazy takeoff, but she landed the plane. Sure. Yeah, for sure. Well, it's, I mean, it's a really bomb-proof kind of stand-up premise, I think. You know what I mean? It has that kind of,

like a lot of it makes sense when you think about it, but it's also nested with it an absolutely wild thing to say. Absolutely wild thing to say. But it occurred to me as a kind of campaigner and kind of an activist, how much of, your stand-up output is in step with your campaigning.

And what's the kind of what's the relationship between the stuff you feel empowered to say in a club and the stuff maybe you wish you could say? I mean, I'm extremely pro-black. I'm extremely pro-woman. I'm extremely pro-abortion. I'm extremely, you know, pro-free speech. So I actually am pro-you- know all those terrible podcasts. bro's saying what they want to say because I want to say what I want to say, you know.

But also stay over there with it. Stay in Austin. I ain't going back to Austin. You mad at Austin. In the brief years, I've been there. Ooh, it's really changed, hasn't it? Oh, my God. Like three years.

And I think the last, the year I saw you was the year before the last year I went back. And I was like, oh, I'm not coming back here anymore. But I want them to have that safe space. I want, you know, Excel frat, uh, sh. What do they call? Flat earth. They have flat earth or anti-vaxxer, anti-masker, Trump supporters. I want them to have their safe space.

But also, I want my safe space. And why do y'all only want a safe space? That's the part I don't understand. It's like, you don't want anyone else to have a safe space? You don't want anyone to be comfortable to go into bathrooms. Like, we're in New York. And all the bathrooms in New York say, all gender. And nobody worried about nobody going.

into a bathroom in New York City, especially in Brooklyn. And but I go to North Carolina and it's like, if I have a hoodie up, I'm almost six feet tall. I might look like a dude to some people. And to have the nerve, somebody might tap me on the shoulder and be like, do you belong in this bathroom? First of all, don't touch me. But also, I just have to pee, bro.

And I'm also the woman who I will go into a male bathroom at the female bathroom line is too long. I don't doubt it. it. So it's like, what are we even talking about? So this country is just so goofy and I hate it here. And that's why I'm like, oh, there's, there has to be a better place. There's a place for us. Somewhere a place for us. And do you, in your kind of regular, like your, what my friend Gordon Southern is a brilliant comic, he refers to having walking around jokes. These are my walking around jokes at the moment. In your walking around jokes, like your kind of, you're kind of, you're kind of, you're kind of, you're kind of, you're kind of, you're your current set that you might do this Friday.

What's the kind of balance of material that is kind of activist material compared to, trust me, I'm a comedian, material? I have actually fallen back from political commentary as of late because I'm just exhausted and I think everyone's exhausted. So I kind of don't want to touch on that as of right now because of the fatigue everybody has. And not only do I want to escape from it, I know the audience does as well. So I actually have taken a little step back from, you know, talking about, so I don't talk about that orange man on stage. I don't.

But I do talk about, you know, traveling. And the closest I will say to something political commentary is escaping before America goes full Gilead. That'll be like the first, the only thing I kind of touch on. And then I'll just talk about my travels and, you know, going to France with my cousin who's on Ozympic and didn't tell us. Like stuff like that, you know, things that are a little lighter, a little more relatable and a little less exhausting for me in the audience, I think. Yeah. And is that, so the exhaustion, I totally can completely understand that. And what, what is driving you at the moment then to gig beyond the money and beyond the, like, is, like, if we imagine that the, the drives to go do a show this Friday night are, you know, financial responsibilities and joy at having fun with an audience, is there another, is there kind of another drive in you? that is suffering from that exhaustion?

Do you mean? Is it like, do you ever, or have you ever gone into battle at a gig thinking, I'm going to convince them of this? Yes, I have. And I honestly think that was back in his first administration, where if I'd go to Nyack, New York, which is right above New Jersey,

and outside of the five boroughs, that's a conservative area and go there to be like, I'm going to talk about politics on stage because I specifically know that this place is against my opinion politically. So I have gone into that battle before. I've specifically talked about abortion,

knowing that there are conservatives in the crowd. Yeah, so I, but I also talk about, think just being a woman, a black female stand-up comedian is a battle in itself almost every time I get on stage because people, A, women ain't funny, but also a black woman, you know, using my voice in a way that people think I shouldn't is an active, an act of war in itself. Yeah, for sure. It absolutely is. That reminds me of, I think, in one of your late-night sets that I saw on YouTube, it's like within the first five seconds, I think there's the line,

because I don't like to hear men speak. And as I said, you know, it's such a lovely line. It's kind of, but you are so warm. It's just you're so, like, we're so happy to hear it from you. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like, we recognize the resident, the authenticity of it. Yeah, yeah.

And if that reaction was like, oh, she's a bitch, I'm like, okay. Because I know a lot of men don't like to hear women speak, so let's be. be honest. So, but the fact that I say it, you know, I was like, what? Yeah. And when you were more in that during the first administration of that man, were you, like when you were going out to resist on like to deliberately kind of like, I want to say this in front of these people, was there, like I'm thinking specifically of that bit when you come out and you do a joke very early on about I don't like to, I don't like to hear men speak. I mean, that's a kind of like a men and women kind of sexual culture war thing rather than like a campaignable platform.

But were there any techniques that you would use to get an audience on board before you get stuck into the stuff you care about? I tell you, the reason I ask that what I'm dancing around is I do loads of stuff now about the climate crisis. It's 90% of my output is all about the climate. It's all I want to talk about now. And I'm having to learn and experiment and to kind of teach myself how to begin how to kind of say to people,

I'm going to, like I've got various strategies now, I'm going to talk about the climate from the next 20 minutes. It's not long, but it will feel long. You know what I mean? I can kind of, I can joke about the fact that this could be a slog. But equally, I'm interested in other kind of

other tools, other tactics for kind of smoothing an audience or shaping an audience into going and now the meaningful stuff. So that's my agenda behind this line of questioning. Yes, I had an idol who's not my idol anymore because I met him and was like, oh, you're a terrible person. But watching his stand-up, I realized that the best way to bookend that that material is with the most relatable material you have. So he would start with dating material and men and women, then get into politics, and then end.

with my wife, you know, take my wife type vibes. Sure. So it's like when you couch it with material that everyone can like ease in, I'm not starting with an abortion joke. I can't. Sure, sure.

And I have before and, but I'll do that at like an abortion conference or, you know, a show where I'm working with the abortion access front where people specifically came for that. But if an audience is just a regular audience, I'm not going to start with abortion. That's way too jarring.

I have to tell that joke way down the line and put some other more, you know, fluffy, puffy puppy type stuff around it, which I don't know how much puppy material I have, but you know what I mean. Yes. Yes, that's really smart. That's a really, I feel like I've probably overlooked that as a strategy.

I think that's a really smart. I think one of the things I'm, one of the comics I'm thinking of is Roy Wood Jr. who on one of his specials, the brilliant. Literally starts halfway through, I think his first word on stage doesn't even say hello. He's like, but if we start burning the flag, and it's like, you're totally like, we're right in there.

And I think I'm aspiring to that. But I suppose at the same time, what the relatable aspect of that is, he's addressing an ongoing very current conversation. And it's almost like the joke there is the abruptness. So that's a relatable joke. And I also think that that was his intention in that moment. And it's like, and if you're going with that intention, cool, we're jumping off this cliff.

Roy knows that he has enough material afterwards that is going to bring people in. But he also knows that his, you know, cheeks and relatable face are also going to allow that to digest easier. Yes, he does have a very relatable face. great observation. What do you want next? What do you want long term, next 20 years? And what do you want next? What's the next big hill to climb?

I want voice over animation work. I want to be able to be in a closet somewhere with a hoodie and no makeup on voicing animals and adolescent boys and grown women. And I want that. And that to me is what's going to be able to allow me to be able to be all over the world living and finding my safe space. I am in pursuit of finding my safe space. And that is what is going to facilitate that. So I want to be a digital nomad.

And I want to be killing the voiceover game. That is the goal. I love it when people have a specific answer. I tell you what I want. This, this and this. Inside Out 3. I want to be inside out three. I was thinking if you're planning to move to Paris, there can't be that many black female American voices in Paris.

And certainly in London, we don't have more than a handful that I'm aware of in the sort of comedy circuit. I wonder if a strategic move might be simply to write to voiceover agencies in every English-speaking country and say, I live here now. And then if they bite, just say, oh, I'll do it over the line, but I'm just down the road. Absolutely. Yeah, that's, I mean, because my agency, you know, there's, there's branches all over. So I've just in the talks of it now, just being like, how do I, how do I get up here? I need a UK recommendations to work. Can you give it to me? Yes, 100% of you, sure. I'm very powerful here. I can just click my fingers, you're quite a second.

Yes. The Prime Minister knows you, right? and then a longer term, a longer term plan? Is your notion to get the hell out of the States rescindable if the Tyrant King is toppled? Is it, you know what I mean? Are you going to go out and put roots down somewhere else? Or are you going to leave in a temporary, I'll be back kind of a way? I've never been a rooted person. My aunt who had the foster kids, I would go to her house during the week and go to school from

her house because my mother bought a house, but she bought it in a neighborhood. She didn't want me to go to school in. So I would go to my aunt's house. So I always had my bags packed. And I didn't know at the time that that was preparing me for a life of stand-up because I'm used to it. I've been used to it my whole life. So my partner and I, like, we are not house people. We don't ever want to own a home. we're not in the facade of the American dream that was sold to everybody so I don't I'm not a rooted human being

so I'm like I've spent a couple years of France couple years in London he's Taiwanese let's go to Taiwan and be out there for a year let me learn some Mandarin real quick so yeah no I don't I'm not I

yeah I love Brooklyn I love Brooklyn from the bottom of my heart I don't want to love leave Brooklyn. So yes, I would love to be able to come back to Brooklyn and be here. But I just want to feel safe here. You know, I want to, I want to figure out where I feel the safest. So that's just like my pursuit. How do you believe in yourself enough to start trying to be a comedian? I think you have to have a slight amount of delusion. A little bit of Like, because it's the dream state, that dream state where you're, you know, half asleep and you're like, what if this was the case?

So it's ironic when I started doing comedy, I didn't believe in myself. Like I said, I wasn't confident. But I believed in a dream, in a dream. Does that make sense? Yeah, that's interesting. We didn't really cover that, did we? The fact, yes, you started despite not believing in yourself. Yeah.

I didn't believe in myself. when I started. But I was like, I think one day I could believe in myself. So I had enough of a delusion to be like, one day, I will believe in myself. And that day will also coincide with being really good at performance art. This is only a question. This next one is only a question I would ask someone who I regard as successful. Why aren't you even more successful?

Oh, because of me. I'm lazy. I am lazy. I could. That's why I'm like, I want to be the voiceover. So I don't, I sweat hands. No makeup. I don't want to leave the house. My poor boyfriend be like, can we go outside? I'm like, for what? I want to be in the house on the couch. I don't. So I know that it's like, you know, I have a guy after me, a lit agent's like, when are you going to write a book? Send me a proposal for a book. You know, I've had people be like, send me a script for the slavery plantation, you know, visit family reunion, you know?

And I'm like, I still have that bit of imposter syndrome that stunts me from being able to be like, here is this work that I wrote. Could you please read it and tell me it's good? Because I'm like, stand up is enough of an assault and opening up, you know, yourself for new assault. So, yeah, I know that if I got, I'm continuing to always get over those things, but that's, that would be why I'm not more successful. Oh, well, that's, you started with laziness. And but actually the impostors, I don't know if I believe in laziness. I think I saw the title of a blog once that said there's no such thing as laziness.

I don't even read the blog. I was like, it feels true. That feels true. Actually, no one's lazy. It's just that you don't, either you don't want the thing or you, there are other blocks that are in the way that you're not processing. And I think as you quickly got on to imposter syndrome there, and that is kind of amazing to think like you're a funny person, you're capable of hard work,

you've got this incredible story of the whole plantation thing. And that does feel like, how are we going to fix you? How are we going to fix your imposter syndrome such that you can do that? Have you got any notions on that? What needs to change? My comfort in the world. Yeah, okay, get to Paris, write this joke.

Yes, yes, my comfort in the world. needs to change. You know, I mean, I've constantly been fighting it my whole life. It's been a uphill battle, but I feel confident, especially to the point that I've gotten, I'm super proud of myself. But I know that

there's so much more that can happen and will happen, and I do not, I will rescind that I am lazy. I'm not lazy. I just enjoy my rest in between gigs. Like this next week, I'll be

traveling all over the place. So I've been, you know, pretty chill for the past week because I was like, oh, the rest of May is going to be crazy. I'll be gone for the rest of the May. So rest, enjoy your rest. Don't call yourself lazy Joil. You just like to rest. Enjoy your rest.

I would like that crocheted on something. I don't think I enjoy my rest. I find it impossible to slow down and stop. I feel guilty and unproductive. Yes, yes, yes. You've got to enjoy your rest because you, you, you, you know, Like the person you are when you're on the road and gig in and, you know, I do a lot of that as well. And I do enjoy that, but it's by no means restful.

And I always think, I tell you, do you do this? I have, I'm like an incredibly busy period, got rocketing between cities and doing shows. And during that time, I think to myself, oh, I'm going to have earned a nice long break from this. And then the break begins and I'm like, I'm not doing enough things. When is it next? What about? Yes, exactly. Yeah, I feel that way.

I do feel that way, but I've also just been learning to, like, there's some times when I'm like, I don't feel like getting out of the bed, and that's okay. And it's not necessarily depression, but there is a little bit of a depression that happens after you come off of the road and gigging for like a month. Yes. You know, yeah. Well, I mean, it is, it's a, it can be very hard to navigate that, can it. It can be really heard like not necessarily depression is a funny title for the book.

You're not going to write. What's your favorite joke of someone else's? What are you most jealous of? What joke have you heard and thought, or a premise that you heard and thought, oh, God, fucking damn it, I should have got there? Oh, my goodness. That's a great question,

because I know there are so many answers to that. Oh, I wish I had thought about this before. That's on me. I should put this in the email. Yes, because that's something I really... Oh, there's this, I'm going to cry. There's this comedian, could you be Dylan. She passed away, but I remember when we were like ginging together,

and she had this joke, because you know about no homo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she had a bit when she said no Negro. And the whole joke was just her, her just. saying certain things to be like no negro no negro and it killed so hard and i just remember being like i wish i had come up with that oh my gosh yeah r-i p oh i'm sorry about your friend could you tell me her name again i missed the name uh kabibi dylan yeah she yeah she passed before she could um get like on tv but uh i was in the you know in the trenches

with her. And that joke was so freaking funny to me. And when she went into it, it was like the crowd, white, black, everyone. It was just so funny because it was so relatable. It made so much sense. So, yeah, I love that bit. But I'm sure anything Roy has ever ran, I mean, his joke about people talk about, like, relationship compatibility. And he's like, nobody talks about climate compatibility. He's like, a 74 can't be with a 68 or something like that. Your relationship is not going to survive if one person needs 74 degrees and the other person needs 68. So both my partner and I are 74s and that's crazy to find a man who's okay with 74 degrees.

I don't know what that is in Celsius. I don't either, but I've got a very, my wife's higher climate than me. Yes. So what numbers are they for you guys? Oh, I don't. I'm not good at the numbers. I'm not good at numbers, period. But I'm,

I literally, I couldn't tell you. Oh, oh, so probably 23. 23, but I don't know what that is, and I'm not prepared to Google it.

But are you, no, but I'm saying, are you 23 or she 23? I'm probably 22, and she's a good few above that, ideally. But actually she,

actually, she just generates intense heat and weirdly so does my daughter yeah and me and my son don't and it's like what is this genetic thing whereby the women are like um i was going to reference an obscure uh commercial in the UK for a cereal yeah ready breck where you walk around the adverts like this glowing thing around you they're both ready brick yeah oh yeah so that's i mean roy is he's just the voice of a the comics comic and anything he's ever written it is like oh i just want to i just want to be as brilliant as him yes oh no he's wonderful he's wonderful so last two let's two questions one review yourself honesty if you were to review if you were to review if you were another

person but with the insight that you have what's the honest review of uh joelle nicole johnson Um, adorably bitchy warm but controversial intelligent and I don't know

is acerbic a word what does that mean? Acerbic, a cervic, yes, kind of like acidic, a little bit like acidic. Yeah. Yeah, acerbic. Yeah, that's, I like that. Tasting sour, but yeah, I'll be bitter.

So I'm a bitter bitch. So like an adorably bitter bitch. That's lovely. Last question. Ask this of everyone. We may have covered elements of this, given the very specific context of your nation. Last question.

Are you happy? My nation. You said, am I happy? Are you happy? Despite it. Oh, yes. I am happy and I just, I'm just like exhausted in it being fought, you know? Like, I have to fight for happiness.

And that is very exhausting. But there's a happy woman in here. Yeah, she's in here. I'm so, like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I've ever lived in. I live in my favorite city in the world, and I'm doing art for money. So I'm happy, but it seems like that's slipping away because of everything that's happening. It's sad, but as I cried tears, I'm like, I'm happy.

But, yeah, no, I'm happy. I'm happy. Thanks, Joelle. So that was Joyelle. Her special lovejoy is out now on Peacock if you're in the US. And you can also listen to her album, yell joy at Blonde Medicine and indeed follow her on Instagram at Joyelle Nicole. But if you would like to hear more content with Joyelle, if you'd like to hear more of this interview in which we talk about putting authenticity before being funny, that's very valuable, very important insight, I think. We'll talk about surviving in BC diversity competitions and LA industry show. cases and find out why influences often fail on stage because they've never experienced real audience silence. Then you can go to the Insiders Club on Patreon at patreon.com.com slash comcom pod. And you can find out how and where to see me live at Stuart Goldsmith.com slash comedy where you can also find details of the now very worthwhile and consistent mailing list.

So thank you to Joelle for appearing on the show. It took us an aid to organise and then I went and messed around with the file and it fell out of the schedule and it's all my fault and I'm an idiot but I'm very pleased to bring it to you at last now. Thanks to Joyal. Thank you to producer Callum. Susie Lewis did the logs. The music was by Rob Smouton and our insider producers who support this show with more than their fair share of a monthly donation are Luke Hacker, Roger Spiller, I Cave, Daniel Powell, Keith Simmons, Sam Allen, J. Lucas, Gary McClellan, Chris Swarbrick, Dave McCarroll, Paul Swaddle, Alex Wormall and James Burry. Terms of Conditions Apply. And a big thank you. to our two special insider executive producers, Neil Terms Peters and Andrew Conditions, Denant,

and also to the super secret one. There's no post-amble today, I'm afraid, so sorry, I am just too busy, but if you're in the Insiders Club, you can get a little regular video diary, if you will, if you remember the concept of video diaries. Have I ever... Okay, this isn't a post-amble, this is a 30-second story. When I were a lad, when I was probably about 15, 16, Channel 4 in the UK, showed a is called Video Diaries, where they gave what was then very new portable video camera technology

to a bunch of, not random people, but people from different walks of life. And one of them, I think, was called Rachel. I think her name was Rachel. And she was a traveller. And she lived in a van in the travelling community. And she was hugely inspirational to me as an example of another life and a way outside the alternative. And this is simply because I said the word video diaries. And it's reminding me of that.

And then years later, like it really, you know, I didn't suddenly go off and live in a van, but that became sort of an itinerant circusy related street performerie dream of mine. That was one of the original twinkles in my eye before I could even juggle, if you can remember that far back. And then years later, my dear friend Den, who I was at Dartington College with between the years of 97 and 2000, love to you, Den, if you're out there somewhere, mentioned that Den has connections to the travelling community. And she mentioned, that she knew Rachel. It just came up in conversation, appropriately enough, on a bus trip passing through Karlovi Vari on the German and Czech border. And I just mentioned it for some reason. And Dem went, oh yeah, I know, Rachel. And it completely blew my mind and I never followed up on it. So, Rachel, if you're out there, you're probably not that many more years older than I am, but I hope, and if Rachel is indeed your name, I think it was. I hope that you're very well. And thank you for the little twinkle in my eye that you. you inspired. I say there's no postamble because I'm busy, but you can tell clearly I'd rather

be doing anything else than all the busy stuff I have to do, like dredging up a memory from yesteryear. But that will do me for now. Postamble at you next time, Katz, and if I don't see you till then, which I won't because I don't see you ever really, unless you come to a show, feel free. Then in the meantime, at least try to retain, if you can, a consistent sense of self. Thanks, Joelle. That was a lovely episode. Speak to Zoo. Thank you.