The Comedian's Comedian Podcast - Kristen Schaal

Episode Date: July 31, 2026

Chances are you’re already familiar with Kristen Schaal's work. You've seen her in What We Do in the Shadows, The Last Man on Earth, The Muppets, Bill & Ted Face the Music, My Spy, The Boss and A Walk in the Woods. And as a voice actor, you’ve heard her as Louise Belcher in Bob's Burgers, alongside memorable roles in Toy Story, Gravity Falls, and BoJack Horseman.Kristen now comes to the UK with The Legend Of Crystal Shell, a show about an extraordinary soul who has been hiding from the world because of a fantastic secret. She now prepares to execute her long-held dream: a solo dance interpretation of Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake. We discuss:returning to Edinburgh after 10 years with changing audienceswhat it was like working with The Muppetspretending to bomb on stage in Live At The Fillmore, and Comedy Central's reluctance to air itplaying with how much trust an audience will extend to a performervoicing Louise on Bob's Burgers, one of the only animated shows where the cast still gets in a room togetherthe struggle to get projects off the groundand we find out Kristen Schaal is happy…Join the Insiders Club at Patreon.com/ComComPod where you can instantly WATCH the full episode and get access to exclusive extras where we discuss committing to the bit, doing the thing that scares you most even if it doesn't land and the freedom in only being able to control what you did, not how it's received.👉 Sign up to the ComComPod Mailing List and follow the show on Instagram, YouTube & TikTok.Catch Up with Kristen: Kristen Schaal: The Legend Of Crystal Shell is at the Pleasance Courtyard at 7pm from the 12th - 16th August, followed by a one off show at London’s Roundhouse on the 17th August.Support our independently produced Podcast from only £3/month at Patreon.com/ComComPod:✅ Instant access to full video and ad-free audio episodes✅ Exclusive extra content with Kristen✅ Early access to new episodes where possible✅ Exclusive membership offerings including weekly(ish) Stu&AsPLUS you’ll get access to the full back catalogue of extras you can find nowhere else!Everything I'm up to: Come and see me LIVE ON TOUR, find out all the info and more at stuartgoldsmith.com/comedy. Discover my comedy about the climate crisis, for everyone from activists to CEOs, at stuartgoldsmith.com/climate.Get in touch: If you’re listening and thinking ‘I’d love to work with ComComPod on getting something out there’ or ‘there’s someone you should absolutely have on’ - drop us an email at [e-mail]! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Stuart here. You can go to Stuart Goldsmith.com slash comedy for tickets to my national tour. That's right. I'm taking my second ever climate comedy show. It's called Canary. I'm taking it to the Edinburgh Festival for the last two weeks of August at the Monkey Barrel, Cabaret Voltaire. And I shall see you there in the last two weeks of August. And then it's a national tour for this guy. Cambridge, Glasgow, Oxford, Manchester, Cardiff, Maidenhead, Sheffield and Birmingham, culminating in my biggest ever tour show at Bristol Old Vic. Stuartgoldsmith.com slash comedy for all your tickets. Hello and welcome to the show. I'm Stuart Goldsmith and today I am thrilled to be bringing you an interview with Kristen Shal. And you know who Kristen Shal is because you've seen her in what we do in the shadows. The Last Man on Earth. The Muppets, Bill and Ted face the music, My Spy, the boss, a walk in the woods. That's where you've seen her. But you've heard her. You'll probably be even more familiar with her voice because you've heard her as Louise Belcher in Bob's Burgers alongside Memorable Rolls in Toy story, Gravity Falls, and of course, Bojack Horseman, where she has arguably the most punishing kind of role in the whole of the most punishing kind of narrative arc in the whole show. She's now coming to the UK. She's going to be at the Edinburgh Festival, I think just for a week with her show, The Legend of Crystal Shell, which is a show about an extraordinary soul who has been hiding from the world because of a fantastic secret, who now prepares to execute her long-held dream, a solo dance interpretation of Chikovsky's Swan Lake.

I've seen it. She was kind enough to send me a video of a performance at the dynasty typewriter in L.A., and it's really excellent and funny and mad. And it's everything you'd expect from her, by which I mean it's nothing that you'd expect. It's brilliant and unique and wonderful. And in the first half, we will discuss playing with how much trust an audience can extend or will extend to a performer. We'll talk about Kristen returning to Edinburgh. After 10 years with the audience is changing, we'll talk about pretending to bomb on stage and her YouTube special Live at the Fillmore, which I insist you watch because it is an exquisite wonder. And we'll hear about Comedy Central's reluctance to air that special.

And we'll also talk about why eating on stage is inherently funny. There is extra content available with Kristen, plus you'd get to see the full video and audio. If you're in the Insiders Club, you can join for only £3 a month at patreon.com.com pod to support. the show. Without further ado, here is Kristen Shal. It's so good to have you. It's so lovely to meet you. You too, Stuart. I'm surprised that our paths haven't crossed. I feel that as well. Kurt was on the show, on the podcast a few years back, and it was a delight talking to him. And I think our paths nearly crossed in 2019. I was in the States taping Conan,

and I came to Hot Tub. And you guys weren't there. And I was devastated. Where were we? I don't know where you were. You were probably doing something exciting somewhere else. But I was like, oh my God, I can't believe him doing hot tub. But our paths didn't cross there either. Oh, bummer. It's a joy to have you on.

And I first saw you in Edinburgh. Like I'm, of course, often with guests on the show, I get all excited and I forget to sort of explain who the guest is for the benefit of people who don't know them. That will be precisely zero. Everyone listening to this will know who you are. And you have an enormous and unbelievably illustrious kind of a TV career, both in person and in voiceover.

And I was telling my kids earlier on, you did the voice of Jake Jr. in Adventure Time, which is huge news for us. But I know you primarily from whichever Edinburgh it was when you and Kurt were doing the double act and you had a thermometer which you were using to measure the temperature of audience members' crotches.

That's when I first saw you. And that's who you will always be in my mind. Yeah, everybody had a hot crotch at that show, huh? Mm-hmm. So when was that? When was that? That's a while ago, right? Yeah, because I don't think that would have been, well, it would have been like either 2012 or 2011.

It wouldn't have been our big show, which was double down parts. Yeah. Because I don't think he was pulling out the thermometer. We didn't have time for that. You know, we had a whole play to put on. So it was, it was, I just remember thinking. It was one of those moments which Edinburgh is so good for where it just kind of unpeeled my mind as a younger comic and comedy fan and what have you. And I was just thinking, oh, you can do anything, you can make anything funny.

One can make, you can make anything funny. And I suppose that is, I've got to be careful now. It sounds almost like a backhanded compliment. It's not meant to be one. You can make any old shit funny. That's not what I mean. I just mean that anything can be the materials. Oh, sure.

I guess it's just what your perspective is on it. Yes. Right. That's comedy. It's your perspective on things. It might be a little bit to the side of what people are used to. Like you're seeing something a little bit differently and not surprising and that makes people laugh.

Because also I think a lot of people realize they're seeing it that way too, but they maybe never articulated it or. Yes. Yeah. I don't know. Flah. What was the flare? Let's interrogate this moment.

What was the flare? Was that a feeling of like, oh, I'm over-analizing it? No, I want to over-analyze comedy until it hurts. I love it. I'm just wondering if, I'm just wondering if it wasn't clear. And it's also not true. I think the problem with your podcast and this in general is that comedy, is subjective.

So, and in the whole business of comedy, you can never defend it. Because all people have to say is, well, I didn't think it was funny. And that's a hundred percent valid. It's so fair. Whereas if you're like, are presenting a drama or an action, everybody's familiar with those rules. It's like, okay, well, I know a state, I know these stakes and dramas are always manipulating the stake.

The end. It's like a tried and true formula. Drama gets all the money. Action gets all the money. And then you do comedy, which is so important to society. And, you know, commercially, again, you can't defend it. You know, it's like, you didn't think it's funny? Okay. The end. Bye. Yeah, because if you're doing drama or action, there are no circumstances under which your thing can, you're thinking. stop being drama or action. Like people cannot find it dramatic, but it's still dramatic. Whereas if you're doing comedy, it's almost like you can put like in a comedy movie, everyone can work their butts off trying to make something really funny. And then if it flops, it isn't the thing. Oh, you tried to make comedy but failed.

No one tries to make action and fails. You try to make action. You end up making action. But comedy is sort of uniquely vulnerable. It's unique. Yes, because it really, it's a conversation with the audience more than anything else. it's you're giving something to them to react to if they think it's funny

then it keeps it keeps being funny sort of it's it's deeply personal too like it's almost like you oh I identify with these comedians they represent me so going back to the perspective of me of you saying like I can make any anything funny it's because I had a perspective

on it that was familiar and surprising with a group of people, I guess. Some people could think that, oh, I don't understand that perspective. That's not funny. And that's valid. You know, and that's, it's just, it's a fantastic art form.

And it's one of the most difficult ones to succeed at. And I think, and I know we're not talking about capitalism and comedy, but I think that's, why it struggles more than any other, you know, art form almost. Because like right now, we're not making very many comedic films. And I think the reason is because we've realized that you can make a ton of money if you sell an action movie to China.

Because in China, they have a lot of money and they understand the stakes. It's the human story and we all get it. But comedy is a reflection of culture. You're making fun of your culture. You're pointing at different, you know, the gesture with the king, but that's your king. You know, that's not China's king. So China's like, I don't get it. You know, you could do sex stuff.

Like sex stuff is pretty universal. Clowning is pretty universal, I think. Like Charlie Chaplin was able to, you know, get the whole. the Blue Man group can go everywhere in the world because they don't speak, but they use physical comedy and that really works. I wanted to get to your busking days. I really, I mean, I was reading about you and it sounded awesome. And I wanted to watch it, but I don't think there's a lot of busking videos of you back in the day. Is there online? No, they aren't. There aren't. I can, funnily enough, there exists. And I don't, it's not, it's, its location is not publicly known. But if you're

interested. I can send you like a three minute. Like the only, I mean, it was by the time I was sort of at the end of my busking career when I finally got a friend to tape it and edited together. But I was very proud. I was very proud of that show. It was really dumb. I used to get six, I used to get 10 guys out of the audience to do a tug of war with a rope and then I would walk on the rope and balance in the middle and eat a packet of chips. And it was deliberately stupid. And I love it. Dillipid stupid. And very physical. So it doesn't, it didn't matter when you were in the street who was coming to see the show where they were from, they would see a man wanting to walk on a tightrope and that would be instantly like... Yes, although, although, I mean, there was lots of

verbals in it as well. I was a kind of comedian that didn't know it yet. And I will say there were probably, just going back to your point about China, I was sort of thinking, are there any kind of crossover movies, comedy movies? I know that Mr. Bean is sort of known around the world, but I've no idea if he's big in China. Because that's a culture that's so, there are some real fundamental differences. It must be, it's hard enough, I guess, to be big in everywhere in Europe in the way that I imagine Mr. Bean is. But it's a real fundamental difference. And I don't know that I ever, I certainly never toured my street show to the festivals of China, although I do know people that do. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I kind of really want to go to China right now

and study it a little bit. That would be, that would be a very satisfying thing, I think, wouldn't it, to be able to still be funny. I mean, you get, like, coming back to Edinburgh, I often see Japanese clown acts or Korean clown acts. I think Korean clown acts are often, they're often, I don't know if there's a particular trope of there, but I've seen Korean street performers and Japanese street performers who do something with, like, painting and drawing and clowning in the same medium.

Uh-huh. That's like this, almost like they've found other kind of universal things to connect with. Oh, that's beautiful. I want to see that. Yeah, there's normally, and there's always some, Edinburgh, there's always some massive, like, oh, the massive Korean acrobatic clowning show that's everyone's running up walls and stuff like this.

Let's stay with the idea of Edinburgh because something that struck me is very funny is obviously what we're here to talk about, primarily is the legend of Crystal Shell, which is a play that you're bringing to the... Yeah, you said it out loud, it made me so happy. Oh, it's very new, isn't it? Yeah, it's so...

Is that why? Yeah. Yeah, we've only done seven performances total. So it's very new. Yeah. That must be a very fizzy, exciting feeling like you're bringing it to Edinburgh for, you're in Edinburgh for a week? Yeah, we got five shows there.

And then one show at the Roundhouse. There's a Roundhouse Comedy Festival in London. So we're going to take the train on the morning and go and we'll do it at the Roundhouse as well. This sounds very cool. what really made me laugh and we'll get on to the content of the show which I've seen I saw the you sent me the kind of sent me the video from Dynasty Typewriter

which is a lovely venue that I went for the first time this year I love it a bit so it's a joy to see you there and I will say as well Dan Mintz whose stand-up I was not familiar with an unbelievable it started I was like I don't think this is the show yet just because I'm watching a very kindly given preview quality I was like oh this is literally a support slot

I thought this was like oh it's an interesting cold open to the theatre show I've been telling people to fast forward to start the show, but if you really want to treat yourself, I've been leaving his set in because it's so good. He's so good. He's so good. We'll get to that late.

What made me laugh is that you're the listing for the show. You're at the Pleasance 4th at 7pm in the Edinburgh Festival. People can find their tickets on edfringe.com. And when they go there and look at the blurb, it describes amongst the blurb, it says, Kristen Chal is an Edinburgh Comedy Award nominee. And I thought this is given, like, Kristen Sharles, an international comedy superstar. It's so funny that you're mentioning the, this is going to get him in through the door now. She got nominated.

She got nominated for the end of a comedy award. Well, it's a big deal, isn't it? Is it not a big deal? Well, it's not as big a deal as you now. Oh, maybe. I think there's been a little bit of maybe they don't remember me in the UK. Like, I don't know how much I've, you know. I guess adventure time and your family, but...

Well, I mean, adventure, listen, I mean, I think the, you know, Last Man and Bob's Burgers and, I mean, like, it could have just said, Kristen Schall is off Bob's burgers. Surely that, but instead you're like, hey, listen, this is Edinburgh and she got nominated. Yeah, I think it's also, you're, I don't know,

I'm so, I was so proud when, when we got nominated for that. Oh, yeah. And of my show, my solo show there too, the year before was like so important to me. You know, I did the whole month that time. And it was just like everything about Edinburgh is so magical. Yeah, it's a, that festival, you know, it's been at least 10 years since I've been back. I'm really curious how it's changed.

I heard it's changed, meaning like. For instance, like doing that month that year was fine because I was able to find an Airbnb that was so cute and cool and a little studio. And I guess now the housing is through the roof. So performers can't make it work to perform the whole month there and pay the rent there. And more can't audiences. The audience has changed because you can't get kind of, you know, like I would, I've been, I don't think I've missed one in 32 years. It changed my life anyway. I absolutely love it.

Did the street shows up there and what have you? And I discovered it through being with like a young person's theater group taking a show up. We literally wouldn't be able to go now because it's, do you know what I mean? It's changed a lot. It's still very wonderful. I didn't see your solo show, but I have recently watched. I think I'd seen clips before and then recently I watched sort of start to finish live at the Fillmore, which this is, listen, I know that you have done such kind of wonderful stuff. Last Man, I'm less conversant with.

I know Bob's Berger's a bit. I know some more of your sort of well-known work, what we do in the shadows and so on. We can talk about them. Live at the Fillmore is one of the best comedy specials. Oh, Stuart, thank you. Thank you. What you do with the form. It's like you look at it and you go, oh, here's a person.

You know, some people get a special, and I guess part of them is thinking, finally the special I deserve, and then they do their special. And I feel like you approached it and went, here is an opportunity. opportunity and it's just oh my god please talk to me a lot about it means a long time ago now right thank you oh yeah I think it happens in about 2012 is when I recorded it like um okay and I yeah oh sorry I just scratched myself and then I am I bleeding oh my god I don't think so that would be funny that would be a very formal thing to do at this point special I had a little scabier and I scratched it okay well if I

If it starts bleeding, don't use. I think it is, I think it is very slightly bleeding. Okay. I'm going to let it bleed. Okay, great. Just don't use that. Or use it. This is, this is the only social clip I'm using.

I'm bad. Okay. Sorry, I'm sorry, Stuart. I apologize for my open wound up above my lip. It was a zit and then I picked it and now it's a scab and now it's bleeding because I touched it. I've done the same. I've done the same just before. podcast but never live during one.

Your skin looks great, by the way. Oh, thank you very much. I'm going to let it go. I'm going to soldier through. The good thing is I'm not selling my looks. So, yeah, I wanted to, you know, play with the form. I wanted to give something where the audiences are watching a stand-up special and then something weird happens, something unusual, where everyone in that moment has to be like,

did that happen? Wait, is that true? Is that real? That's all I wanted to do. So what I did was I pretended to bomb on stage. And so there was a moment where you're like, oh, my God, she's like losing. And it's in the audience in San Francisco was like, what's happening? And it just like went.

And then it clearly devolved into something that was planned. I thought at that, like, I only wanted to give them like a couple minutes. And then like, oh, okay, this is part of it. it scared Comedy Central they refused to air it they aired it on because it was so weird to them that I would do something like that

they aired it on April Fool's Day and they aired it at midnight so usually people would get their hour long stand-up specials like in a great platform on Comedy Central like on Friday night so everyone could tune in I got mine at midnight

on a Monday on April Fools. So it kind of got like a little bit buried. So the fact that you saw it makes me really happy. I'm still so proud of it. Like I really wanted to do something weird. I've never wanted to do straight stand-up. People that do straight stand-up, I have so much respect for.

I'm a huge fan of stand-up, obviously. But I've always just wanted to like play with it. And so that was a live at the film or was me playing with it. It was so great. Like I don't want, obviously it was a long time ago, but I still don't want to spoil some of the things that happen in it because I want people listening to this episode

that haven't heard it or seen it to go and watch it. How did you find it? How did you find it? It's on YouTube. The whole thing's on YouTube. Oh, okay, great. I was just searching, I was searching for your stand-up on YouTube. And I'm sure it's on YouTube in a way that you're earning thousands of dollars a day.

No, not a penny, not a penny. Nope. it's so good and what I loved about it I don't know if these are moderated and I'm not suggesting anyone check of course no one should ever look at the comments but the YouTube comments traditionally for women's stand-up are incredibly awful

negative comments that no one should ever look at or pay attention to the comments under the line of the film are all so proud of you it's really great please don't go and look in case there are some awful ones I haven't seen but there are a lot of people going

God this is so brave imagine doing that She's a hero. Like they, I think there is something in that, I mean, we might speculate that the kind of either you've built a glorious fan base that loves you and they're the people who are going there and those comments are kind of, you know, going up the algorithm or, you know, the most visible comments. But also I would like to think that there is something about the kind of the moxie involved in bombing your own special that won over even the most awful MAGA kind of,

get a comedy fan troll. You will, I mean, I think like, that's what's so exciting about what we're saying, again, going back to how personal comedy is,

is like, you will find a tribe of people that get it. And when they find someone else that gets them, it's the happiest feeling in the world. And, like the Crystal Shell show, like clearly doing live at the Fillmore

did not help me in any way, professionally. Like I couldn't I would there were like oh you should tour now you should do like your your stand up everywhere like it it really didn't but what it but that's okay because I and then I think like what I want to do like what you're saying when people like got it like my whole thing that would make me so happy and doing this crystal shell show too is I want to just do something that I like that's different and I'm whole thing. hoping that someone out there will watch it and be brave enough to also do something different

that they like. 100%. 100%. I want to talk about the kind of the clown nature of the games that you're playing on stage. So my first observation would be how painful to take all this risk and then have it buried in the schedule. Like that's so frustrating. Had you been aware that that was a possibility that might happen?

Did you feel like they were just backing you to be as weird and abrupt as you wanted? And like they've booked you, this is what you do, so you're going to do what you do. Did you feel like there was a possibility they might bury it? Or did that take you by surprise? Did you start to get a sense throughout it that you were like, hang on a minute. I don't know if they'll go over it. Oh, no. Yeah, I wasn't surprised at all because we had several like conversations with like big,

people at Comedy Central about the fact that I was going to do a bomb on stage. Okay, okay. So they knew. They didn't like it. No. They weren't thinking what a great idea, how unusual everyone will talk about this. What a wonderful thing. They were just thinking this doesn't fit the mold and therefore it's a huge. Yeah. Yeah, that's what they were used. That's not what they were dishing out. And I think there was also a big fear. at Comedy Central about their audience. Like, you know, they would, it was very hard to pitch a show at Comedy Central

when I was coming up with a woman as the lead. And they would just argue, we're like, well, where it's kind of a male-based audience and they don't want that? Like, they didn't care. I was like, oh, okay, well. So then they had the Sarah Silverman show and then they had no one,

and then they had Amy Schumer show finally. So it was just like a time where there wasn't a ton of trust. Yeah, yeah. Not to say that it was buried because it was sex. It was buried because it was weird. And, you know, maybe they didn't like it. But you did. So that's cool.

I did like it. And it's interesting that quality of trust because what you're playing with throughout it is the sort of the elastic tension of how much an audience is prepared to trust you as you take them into some really weird places. And like the kind of the clown nature of it, there are so many bits between that and then another special, the name of which I don't know. It's the one you're, it's the one with the red background where you do Anne Boleyn. You get, you break up, you propose to your supposed boyfriend on stage during the show. He declines and then you have to go through with the one woman play about Anne Boleyn.

Just describe, it's such a good idea. But like this is kind of the different problems, like a lot of the material of those specials is, you negotiating a problem. So your bird has flown south for the winter or you have to emote about the death of your best friend whilst you're eating a chocolate cake. They're just such perfect. They're like they're almost like little far side cartoons. Do you mean? Like this, but this. Do you mean like how can I how can I cope with this? And I just wanted to talk a bit and just hear a bit more about how you come up with those. How you and they go into Crystal Shell as well, the different problems that you're having in Crystal Shell.

But like, what's the starting point for your kind of process creating those? Like, are you sort of thinking, like often with a comic, I'll go, okay, what's this, or, you know, we might say, what's the starting point for a joke or a one liner or an idea came to me and I played with it on stage and what have you. But when those bits are such big swings, they're such individual big swings, I'm just fascinated. Does it begin with like, I've had an idea for something that would be a big problem and I'm just going to get it on stage and try it and see if it's a problem in the right way? Or do you, like, you know, let the problem say the chocolate cake while you have to say something

serious or emote something serious. Can you give me an example of like the sort of the journey from notion to try out to special of one of those bits? Oh, wow. You know, I think it's a little less. logical based and more like I kind of see it in a dream. And, you know, it's just like I've kind of, it's sometimes it just sort of comes to me. Like, like most recently, I, like for Crystal Shell, that was a long evolution, but my first

thought of how to do it on stage was I was just laying, I was just like maybe doing a sit-up or something. and I thought I could cut a plush horse toy in half and hook it to my butt and I'll be a centaur. And it made me so excited. And I like ran and wrote it down. And I mean for the other pieces back then, I think it was like probably whatever, I'm sure for like, for like, that was a favorite bit of mine was the Law & Order SUV audition where you had to do, I did a monologue. and I was explaining to the famous detectives, the stabler, you know, I was talking, I was answering his questions. So that, so you was a dialogue actually, but you didn't hear his questions, but everyone knew what he was asking and I would repeat the question. And I was so sad, I was just started eating my cake.

And that probably came from, I was auditioning all the time, all the time for stuff, auditioning for SUV, be auditioning for criminal intent, law and order, all of it. And so that's probably where that came from. And then just knowing that I just knew that eating on stage is really funny. Always. But I've had to, especially with this show and being older and having a kid and having more responsibilities and not like the luxury of like being in my 20s and like,

getting off my waitressing job and just sitting on the subway, like fantasizing my next comedy bit, I've had to, like, accept that, um, that it's going to come slower, that I, that I can't control the timeline of when I'll get, like, a vision of something funny for the stage.

Yes. And that's okay. That's really, that's interesting. I think I have two children. I think my eldest, I think my oldest is 10 and a half, which I think is something similar. Yeah, I have an eight year old.

Yeah. Okay, okay. The, definitely, of course, when you have children, like, you don't want to be out or you can't be out. You can't be out getting up every night and all the rest of it because your life is full and you don't want to be away because I don't know about you, but being on stage isn't better than being with my kids. And that's a big creative challenge. No, you have to tuck them in, you know, you have to tuck them in at night. Yeah. Yeah. So that, I'm interested in what you say, it sounds like that's a healthy relationship you have with the idea of like, don't force it, accept that it comes more slowly, except that there are longer gaps in between those moments and still sort of be curious and present and ready to let them in. Yeah, yeah. And I think they'll come faster once you do, like, don't put a pressure on it. But it's, it's scary because you're just like, well, that's it. I'm done. I have no. Nothing. Like, Riders Block is awful. But, yeah, so my, so that's sort of been my process is like, like letting the idea come, writing it down, and then, and then knowing that, like, a pathway to something's opened up. And I don't know where it's going. I don't know if it's a stage show. I don't

know if it's going to work, but it's exciting. Like, I don't know about you, but when I have an original idea for like a story or whatever the first time i get the idea i it's like better than any buzz i've ever had like i'm like this is so fun you know and i'm like like for a two days i'm like i've got the best movie idea you've ever heard and then it's like oh i have to work on it oh i'll have to write write it oh sure i don't know if i like i actually don't like this idea i don't think it's going to work. It's so devastating. So that's another thing I've really,

for this new show, I was like, that's been really nice is that the ideas come and then I've had to work on it and I'm having fun working on it and then a problem is happening in it

and now the problem solving is giving me a buzz. So that's been really positive. Is that, I think now I think I am boring your podcast listeners. No, no, no, no, no, not at all. Not at all. Cut to my bleeding Zit, if you want to wake them up.

I can't see it. Smash cut, retention loop, zoom in on the Zit. Keep them interested in the clip. Don't scroll. Bang, Zit. I'm 48, guys, and I still have Zits. Oh, young at hard. So talk to me then about writers' block.

in the context of improv. Because obviously, my assumption was, oh, you're an improv person. These ideas just fall out of you because you get yourself, like, I'm not an improv person. I'm a stand-up writer and I hate it. It's like torture forever. And then you get to a good place where you're like,

oh, it isn't torture now. I'm tinkering. The machine is all but built and I can tinker with it. And I absolutely love that phase. But all of the improv people I know tend, but it's a big trend, or big, you know, like a trend in terms of data. I feel like everyone I know who does improv is just happy

because they don't have homework and they don't have writers block and they just get to go and play with their friends and just they create and all the stuff just comes out of them. They engage improv brain and blam, there's the stuff. And I feel like I've heard you say that in interviews or like extoll the virtues of improv in that respect. So what's the relationship between the improv gear and the picking up a pencil or sitting at a laptop and going,

fuck I'm stuck now. Well, when you, so improv, you're pretty much always with a team. That's why it's so fun. You're not alone. You're bouncing ideas and they're giving stuff back. It's like constant stimulus

and you're playing. There's nothing better than finding comedian friends that can play with you. I think for when you're writing stand-up, your solo stand-up stuff, you're all by yourself.

And I really think that's why it's torturous. You have no one to bounce it off of. You just have to trust yourself. And like, you know, everybody's going through all kinds of emotional states throughout their life. And that's who you're working with. You know, this is a tangent, but what are the other good things to get out of the way of myself? I think being known, like you're saying, oh, you're coming back.

to Edinburgh, like, they know you from all this stuff. I think that's been a bit of a block for me about being good enough as a known person. You know, like someone who's anonymous, like I used to be, could come in and, and, you know, tear, you know, play around, try it out, fail. But as a known person, more people are going to comment about how you suck now. Oh, all the review is it going to be there on the first? Just night. Exactly.

Who does she think she is? Why the first night? Like, why not the third night? Like, we're definitely going to be figured. Anyways. So, but the thing that I realized is that I was like, you know, Kristen, no one is going to say anything worse than you haven't been saying about yourself these days. Like, I have such a critic in my head about myself that, like, like, you. And then I was like and when you say those things to yourself, what happens?

And I was like, oh, nothing. I just kept writing the show. I was like, exactly. Nothing bad happened. So that was a really good, because you know, you make up a defense. You protect yourself. You're like, well, I won't do it then because I don't want to deal with the negative review. And then I realized it's like, well, who cares?

like even a negative review, if your whole goal is to, again, present a piece of work that might make people think, might make people think about comedy in a different way, it might make people think that they hated it for so many reasons. Well, that's a great tool for them to know what they like. Again, like, it's good.

Oh, that's, I've never heard a more compassionate look at a negative review. I helped someone find out a thing they hate. Yeah, but that's like, that's like what you can hone in on like your pathway to what, well, I didn't like this because I actually like that, right. So anyways, so that was a good way to free my brain for the writing process as well and for having the courage to do something. This is Kristen.

Isn't she wonderful? I'm so excited to meet her. I, as you know, I suffer from wildly illogical chronic anxiety for many days before recording any interview. And I think that anxiety goes up the more, it's not the more famous someone is. I think it's the esteem in which I hold someone. So I had been freaking out. And of course, for some reason, that anxiety goes away sort of 10 minutes before the episode starts before I meet the person. And then ordinarily, when I meet the person I go, oh God, what's I worried about? And the, I don't think, I can't think of a time I've experienced a more, what's the word, the schismness of a schism, a more abrupt, a more different difference than the amount of tension I had before meeting Kristen to the amount

of tension I had upon meeting, like the amount it dissipated upon meeting Kristen. I think I've made myself clear. The legend of Crystal Shell is at the Pleasant's courtyard at 7pm on the, from the 12th to the 16th of August and then there's a one-off show at London's Roundhouse on the 17th of August. Yes, I only knew that afterwards, I think, at the very end of the interview she mentioned that. If you're unable to get to the Edinburgh Festival and let's face it, who can

afford to do that. Then you can try and get to London. That's the other one. We've all heard of it. The Roundhouse is a brilliant, brilliant venue and she's going to be doing the show there on the 17th of August. And I cannot stress enough, if you're a fan of her work, her work, not simply her famousness from

bits and bobs, but the things she does so brilliantly. You are, and even if you're a casual, but you know, you'll love it. But if you're a fan of the Kristen Shalness of Kristen Shal, you're going to absolutely love this show. I am going on tour, as you may know, for the first time in a long time. My climate comedy show, Canary is coming to the Edinburgh Festival to Cab VOL at 2.25 p.m. from the 17th to the 30th of August, I shall high-five Kristen as we train in and out of the city at the same time. And then I will be embarking on a national tour. And I'm so stoked about it. I'd go to Cambridge. Junction, the stand in Glasgow, the fire station, the old fire station in Oxford. I won't be

going to the new fire station. I hate that place. Fairfield Social Club in Manchester, Sherman Theatre and Carnish, Norden Farm, Maidenhead, Foundry in Sheffield, Birmingham Glee, and then the biggest headline show of my young life at Bristol Old Vic on the 18th of November. And I have sold a decent wedge of tickets for that, and I saw Simon Amstel do his magnificent show. I love it here last Sunday at the Bristol Old Vic. And it was the first time I'd seen a stand-up doing a show there since I knew that I was going to be a stand-up doing a show there, and now I am fair pinging off the walls. So if you're in or near any of those places, do jump on that. You can find out how to get your tickets at Stuartgoldsmith.com slash comedy. You can also sign up for the Comcom mailing list

there, which is so nice to be able to confidently say that is worthwhile doing these days. I've been promising it would be good for years, and about six months to a year ago, it actually got good. So do sign up there. Stuartgoldsmith.com. Coming up in the second half, we will talk about voicing Louise on Bob's Burgers, one of the only animated shows where the cast still get in a room together. We'll find out what it's like working with. I can't, it's so painful to me to say this out loud, working with the actual Muppets. We'll talk about how shared laughter can push towards genuine social change and we will find out if Kristen Schall is happy. Let's get back to Kristen Schall. Can we talk a bit more about the kind of the internal critic? Because that's

a thing that comes up on this show a lot, a lot, a lot. And I suffer from it myself, of course. And I think I saw the, I was trying to pass this on to one of my kids, a thing that I'd seen recently, I think, on threads. That's a thing. So stop looking at X. I don't use that anymore. Actually, threads is sort of, I mean, I'm not going to say any social media is good, but it sort of feels a bit like Twitter was back at the day.

But someone posted recently about their, like a little trick they've got. When they catch a negative thought, they treat themselves like a. Princess announcing to the guards, seize them, which I really liked. I can't attribute that, but I love that. But I wondered what other kind of, like, does, I will, I'll ask this the gentlest way round I can. With my internal critic, I have mentioned it in therapy a lot over the years. And I've tried to dig into whose voice is this and where did this come from and how does

it serve me? And, you know, the therapy thing, I think you may have come across. yourself is like, this served you once, but it's no longer useful. You know, like this, beating yourself up like this probably did have a purpose or the notion that one is a, a brilliant student, but a terrible teacher. So you're constantly teaching yourself all these negative things, and then learning them really well because you're scared and you're trying to learn, you know. And I wondered about whether you conceptualize your internal critic, whether it has a voice or a persona or is there a theory you have about which part of your life it comes from and how you're

most vulnerable to it and things like that? Totally. I mean, when I was doing the show, there was this moment. I'm so glad it happened. I was like, dropped my kid off at school. I was driving home and I could feel my shoulders going up. I had all these thoughts about the show, like that it's going to suck. It's not going to work. You're wasting your time. Or this thing's not going to like pan out. And then I had this finally, like this thought came through and being like, hey, is this making the show better? And then I was like, no, it's actually not making the show better. And then it was like, oh, then let's not have those thoughts anymore because it's not making the show better. And then I realized, too, the reason I have those negative thoughts is because I cared about the show.

And so that's the, you know, you're protective and you like it and you're hoping that, you know, it's good. And then I was like, okay, well, I really care about the show. So those negative thoughts are coming from a place of feeling that the show is really important and valuable to me and wanting to protect it. But it's not helping me build the show better. I already have that energy. So, you know, because there's a feeling that you, especially when you're alone in it, where you're just like, you have to hold yourself accountable, you know. And so, well, obviously with all these negative thoughts, I'm holding myself accountable. I care about the show.

I'm putting the work into the show. So I'm going to let those go because they're not, all they're doing is making my shoulders go up and taking my brain away from thinking more about. creative things in the show. So it was a real, I've never had that before, a real like, a reflection of why, why I was so mean to myself. And because I care. And as soon as you realize it's coming from there, then you can let it go because, yeah, so that was, that was good. And in the Legend of Crystal's Shell, nobody gets. gets this storyline. Someone's like, maybe you should make it more clear.

I'm like, I'm going to let people take what they want. A lot of people are taking different things from it. But the mom in the show is my inner critic. And Crystal Shell is the joke, I think, is a mutant bad joke that should never come out beyond her refrigerator box. And the only way that she can, that joke can dance and be alive is if, mama dies. Yeah.

So it's it's actually like. The death of the critic. Yeah. Yeah. And then of course you're waiting for the better joke, which is in the dad that comes, you know, but like the unicorn. But in any case, that's the,

I really, it was, it's really, the whole thing was like a therapeutic thing because I wasn't writing. I wasn't making things because I was constantly starting with my buzz and then shutting it down with my. critic. So this gotcha. So this show exists as kind of like I managed to make something about that process that was preventing me making something. Yes, but again, that's not totally clear in the show. No, sure. Yeah, it needn't be about that. That might not be like the, the, yeah, because I told it to, yeah, yeah, you didn't get that. You obviously didn't get that. Well, I didn't get that about

her being the joke, but certainly the voice of the critic. I feel like that's. Yeah. I don't think I completely got that, but there's a lot going on. It's fine. And you know, and Mama wants to protect her. You know, she's a freak. She doesn't want them to see her. Sure, sure, sure. That's so funny that I asked that question, not knowing that from the show. That's priceless. No, that's, it's probably why I'm going to get a bad review in The Guardian. But that's fine. I asked you the question. I've literally seen the show in the last two days. And then that's the question I ask. So maybe it is. I have picked this up. You know what I mean? Subconscious.

Yeah. Well, everybody's picking up different things, which is, again, like, so cool. And I think, like, also, like, I think the critic comes from expectations. Like, you know, you make a piece of art. And now it's like, I call John Roberts. I'm like, hey, I want to make this thing. I want you to be in it. And, you know, the question, for what?

For what? For what? Is this a special? You know, is this a thing? Like, for what? And it was a real moment of, like, for us? You know, like, it's not, it doesn't have an end goal except for we're going to make something. And then, and again, that's a real privilege because like, people got to pay bills.

But it's just like we're not going to make things if we think we're going to get money from it. You know, like we have to just make it. And then like the expectation hasn't shouldn't be this is going to go and go and go. the expectation is in the moment, maybe someone will smile. And as soon as you dial that back, you're like, you're like, I didn't realize I was putting the whole world on this thing. That, again, not important, not important. It strikes me, and this is, this is a theory, so shoot it down.

But I would imagine the work for work for work. which you are most sort of internationally known is you acting or voice acting in other people's shows and brilliantly and people are in love with you. Your character Louise in in Bob's Burgers is just so like this wonderful agent of chaos child and people are just crazy about her and you know you do a brilliant job. Sarah Lynn in BoJack and this unbelievable kind of arc of the depth of the character which has all this pathos and all this humor and all of that kind of stuff, you clearly are an unbelievably talented and skilled voiceover comedian, doing, you know, like real breadth of character, which nonetheless is you.

You know, it's like it's recognizably your performance, yet you're playing all these different instruments, let's say. My notion would be, I think if I was in your position, I'd be thinking, oh shit, I'm doing my own thing again. as opposed to doing, like a different, like there is a safety within, I'm speaking someone else's words and I can lose myself in these words. Is that a thing that's, yeah? Yeah, that's what makes it your own show more scary, but also more rewarding.

Like when I, well, when I was doing, especially some live action stuff I've done recently that it was a thrill to be on it, but there was some moments where I'm like, I wish I was doing more. Like I can do some funny stuff, you know, and I'm like, oh, but this fits with the story and I will serve the story. So then I was like, okay, well, this is, write all the funny stuff. I mean, this show, I just packed the front of the show with every funny thing I wanted, you know, to do that I haven't been able to do in a while. The bucking them off bit is such a joy to watch. Oh, yeah.

So great. But I'm just really interested in like, we were talking about the kind of. the critic and the attempts to make work that then were unsuccessful because you got caught up in the internal critic. Do you think that that experience is tougher because of your success in, in like in these other, these other strings to your bow? Yes, exactly. Like I said, it's the difference between performing as a known, a known person where, yeah, where you, where I could, they could say like, oh, well, she's actually not that good. I loved her and A.m. B.C. shows and then I just saw her not do great in this show. Like it's, you're just like, well, I've, I've built this thing that people really are liking me. Like, am I going to ruin it? And then it's like, yeah, I'm going to ruin it. Like, that's not like I got into this. Um, and also, yeah. Oh, I don't know. I was going to say like, again, what's the, what am I protecting? Um, and what is like, this whole.

art form of comedy is is about is risky it's it's about going for it isn't it like why not well you obviously you in that earlier work that we were discussing of philmore and the kirst and charles a dancing horse which i was lucky to see live in edd over all those years ago um that stuff is like you so you commit so hard to this these absolutely absurd ideas and i wondered whether um at the time or since whether that gave you a sense of feeling kind of bulletproof. Like, did you go on? When you were going on to do, obviously you were with Kurt doing that stuff, but when you were going on to do kind of that or the solo stuff

where it was really kind of, really old, really kind of risky, you could imagine them just not going with it. And can you change gear whilst you're being a dancing horse? Is it possible to offer them something else? No, right, I guess. So did it kind of build up in you or reflect an, existing sense of kind of commitment despite anything. Were you kind of going into battle going, well, I think this is funny and I'm going to do it?

Yeah, I think I also just, one of the things that was funny for me was being someone that no one knew and surprising them. And so coming out now, I'm Kristen Shaw. And then there was a real stretch because we, you know, we did hot tub every Monday. I'm sorry we missed you that one. I think it might have had to take one Monday off. I think we moved into Wednesdays too. But it was like I needed to,

it was like come in with stand up. And it was like, you know, because you have like 10 minutes. And I'm like, oh, I don't have anything about my life right now that's the perspective is good for me. Like that's funny. Like I couldn't find a perspective. Is it that I'm an older lady?

You know, it's like what's happening in my life? Like what's, But before I could be like a carrot, I could be like someone like that, oh, this girl is, I'd be in a whoopee cushion. You know, I would just be doing weird stuff. So I got a little in my head about not having a voice for comedy anymore. Like I couldn't find my own voice. And it really went away. And I would just go and I would host the shows.

I would just shoot the shit with Kurt at the beginning. And then I would just watch stand-ups. which was so fun. And I would never come in with something new. And it was really, it was really, yeah, it was, you know, we all go through that. I think it's okay to look for your voice again. You know, I think sometimes comedians and artists put so much pressure to always produce, produce, produce, you know, and

sometimes it's okay to rest. Yeah. You know, and like live. Yeah, I'm really fascinated by that. I don't know that I've ever had a conversation about that. Having your voice and then feeling that maybe you've lost it or that it's moved on or the circumstances have moved on

and then having to discover, yes, a perspective is a good word for it, isn't it? You suggested one potential, like, what is it? Am I this older lady? Like, were there kind of other possibilities that you were toying with that you were kind of putting on and off? I think I think I was trying to fit back in the stand-up world a little bit because it's easier. I mean, even with this show, like stand-up is nimble.

It moves. People understand it. It's a conversation with the audience. You go, you have your mic, you do your show. And I was trying to figure that. out. And again, going from anonymous to mildly famous is like you get, you lose your identity and you have a new one. You know, my relationship with my family. I go home. People, I go to the grocery store with my parents who are like, oh, hey, are you the blah, blah, blah. You know, and it's, it's a new

identity. It's different. And it's what everyone, oh my God, like, who knew in my wildest dreams that I would be where I'm at right now, but in terms of the art form, it's not what I knew how to do anymore. Because I'm not like Jimmy, I'm not like pointing out things about the world. I just don't, my comedy, I didn't know what I was going to do. So, and then I wrote this show, which was, again, like, I love doing double down hearts with Kurt so much. I love doing weird plays and stuff that are skewed like Christopher Durang weirdness.

You know, I wanted to do that. And so I couldn't do that at the stand-up show every Monday night because it didn't make, I did do some sketches towards the end during the writer's strike where I had the horse button. I had Kurt wear it. And then Kurt moved to New Jersey. And then I was like, oh, I'll just wear it. But in any case, that's, that was the thing. and it was a scary time and it was a it was a sad time and I but also my kid was really little

that's the other thing I was like just had a baby and I like did hot tub right until I gave birth and then I would come back like I didn't know how to not not be there but I also I don't know it was it was really hard to have my brain opened for anything else but my other identity which was now I'm a mom you know And I don't want to talk about being a mom. Like I don't want to talk about my husband. I don't want to talk about my kid. I don't want to talk about me like that because I just don't think it's funny.

I can't make it funny the way you can't. Like you can make it really relatable to people and you can find a perspective that everyone gets. That's just not my voice. So let's talk about Of the I would like to focus on the stuff that you make I mean we can I would love to I know the listeners will be desperate

To hear things about like Louise Let me ask you one question about Louise from Bob's Burgess Because that show has been going for Is it like 16 seasons? Yeah It's incredible And just I think just confirmed for another three or four or something So

I well I think so Maybe you tell me I don't know No I think we have three more They cut our episode I just so ordered down a little bit, but we still got more. In this economy, we're like, yay! So to have a show like that, which is so consistent, such a constant in your life,

it makes me think of like, what's the lady that plays Bart Simpson, who's been playing Bart Simpson for... Nancy Cartwright. Nancy Cartwright. What a thing to have, to have 16 seasons worth of like this has, you were, you were, you were Louise before you had a child and now you were Louise when you were a mother of a young child and now you are Louise you know what I mean like I just what I'm just interested in that experience of like having a thing a consistent thing and people with whom to record are you all are you recording it in the room with people I've got no idea what it looks like are you

recording together yeah often I think we might be the only um animated show that records with the cast and what together um some of us live in New York York and some of us live in LA so but we'll always be over a USDA line with Zoom in studios recording together just so we can riff a little bit off each other so it's been really magical everybody there is like my family it's one of the only shows that still that I can like that doesn't quit you know it's it's been such a miracle And playing a nine-year-old, playing Louise, you know, Yardley Smith and I talked about this. She had a podcast.

I don't know what happened to it, but, you know, about she plays Lisa on The Simpsons. And we were talking about the joy of getting to play a child, even as older ladies. Like, there's nothing better than being a child. I mean, everybody will admit that that's a pretty magical time of life. So getting to just getting to be immersed in it in the show has been a dream. Has Louise changed as you have changed? Is there a sort of purity to the characterization of Louise that you made the decisions and that is Louise? Or has Louise changed as you've grown older and had more life experiences?

I think that the writers have been really careful with her. You know, everybody in the show has had good arcs that have made the show strong. She's a little, I think at the beginning of the show, they were still trying to figure her out. But now we know that she's super smart and at the end of the day, very vulnerable about her family. Like, she really cares about people. And I think that's so earned because, like, it's just underneath at all. that's lovely is there

is there a is there a favorite moment I know the fans have got all their kind of like favorite you know quotes and clips and I was looking back at like a you know a YouTube Louise Best Moments kind of thing like that which is love it I mean the idea of having fans put together a 16 minute video of all their favorite things

you said across 16 seasons of a show is just sort of extraordinary but do you do you have a favorite bit or is that or is there anything in your life in your kind of day-to-day mundane life that makes you think of Louise or a particular Louise line? I mean, we watch, I watch Bob's Burgers with my husband and my eight-year-old now before bed. That's the show she gets to watch. And it's so fun. I mean, recently there was an episode where it was from the perspective of her best friend,

regular-sized Rudy. And you don't see Louise till the end where she just is very, like, walks him back to the restaurant that he's having with some adults. Anyways, it was just a really sweet moment. And I do like tear up every time I see that episode. It's so good. That's lovely. How does your daughter feel about the fact that you are Louise in that show? Because my kids wouldn't give a damn. In fact, my involvement would ruin it. Oh, I know. I know. Yeah, she's proud. Like, again, if someone, if she's with me and someone comes up and says something, like, I'm sorry, do I know you? She'll just start listing my credits. I'm like, oh, now. But she just enjoys the show because Bob's Burger's is so good. She's just like all in. And then, yeah, I don't know. I remember thinking when I was pregnant with her and doing all these. you know, animations that kids were loving.

I'm like, oh, my God, wait until she finds out that her mom is Mabel or da-da-da or leave, you know, and then I realized like, that's not actually like super cool. I mean, it's cool, but it's like, I don't, yeah, I don't know. Nothing about having kids is what you thought it would be. That's fair. I would agree with that. You were your husband, Rich and you wrote a show American Monster, which you wrote, is that the only thing you've written together? Is that the thing that you've written together which got nearest to getting made?

Or have I missed apologies if I've missed a award-winning thing that you've done? No, that's it. I'm just interested in that. I'm sorry, I know that must be frustrating because I know it didn't get made despite having the kind of A-list backing and all of the kind of, like, it really looked like it was going to. and I'm just interested in, I just want to talk about the awful stuff and the failures, you know what I mean? Because I think those are so important

to kind of reflect on. And I've said failure and I don't mean that show was a failure. No, it was. No, it failed. It didn't go forward. It didn't even make it to pilot. So tell me about that and about, like, do you have theories on why that happened?

And tell me about the experience of writing with your husband and like, isn't that a killer that that's the one that didn't get away, you know, that that's the... Yeah, he's, he's, rich is, you know, he's got seven Emmys that he hides in our closet for some reason. He's like, one of the best writers, quickest wit, so fast. And he's really good, he's really good to write with. I mean, he's worked, he's a great ensemble player, like, he's not one of those writers that needs to be by himself and doesn't let anybody pitch their ideas. Like he wants to play with other people.

And I think working for bosses, like good bosses, writers are the most humble people I've ever met besides puppeteers. Because I know some very humble puppeteers. Yeah. A lovely observation. Yeah. They don't get the credit for any of it. But they are the ones who made it happen. And so anyways, I love writing with him.

And we just, we were at the time really into like, oh, there was a lot of female, notorious female killers that were making the news. And I thought it would be so fun to play, to do a, this is the thing about, I think part of the reason is, is the genre is we wanted to play with this idea that I do like the staircase. Do you know the staircase? We wanted to parody that, and it would be that I was, maybe I did or didn't push my friend off a cliff, you know, on a hike, which has now become like also some cases that have come up. And we had so many funny characters and different things, and it was, it was great. At the time, we pitched it to all the networks, and we got like four of the networks wanted it, but we decided to go with ABC and then they wanted to change.

it and then at the same time NBC bought the next year bought a show called trial and error which was a parody of the staircase with John Lithgow as a star and that show made two seasons anyways it didn't happen

we got really close I've never been close enough to see something that I've written as a pilot or a movie be actually made like I've been paid for some scripts but I've never gotten to see them materialize and that and that's painful and I'm sorry yeah it's okay I think it's funny because Ruby last night we came home from we saw Maddie's Secret with John

early which was really good we came home anyways and uh her babysitter was like she's making this illustrated book probably about dragons or Pegasus or something like that and she said but I probably won't get it published. And I was like, oh, I know where she's getting that language from because her dad and I are a little bit like, you know, we write movie scripts a lot and we write things a lot and they get, they, and we tell her like, we're writing it, but we probably won't get made. Like, that's kind of like our, we have to switch gears. It would just be nice to get something made. Yeah, that's, oh mate, to hear your daughter say that, that's like a real, oh my gosh, that's like a little flag from the universe. No, that's it.

It is whoops, but it's only whoops, isn't it? And that maybe something wonderful can be found in that. You know what I mean? Something like, oh, that's, we need to continually shine with pride whilst knowing it probably won't get made. We have to, you know, gosh. I've got one question on the Muppets. I've got a question I ask everyone at the end. and then before we get in the middle of that,

we'll just wrap up with one tiny bit more about Crystal Shell. So very briefly, Chris and Shell, please tell me about working with the Muppets. Oh my God. That was, I described that as one of the best days of my life. It was, it was so incredible. I brought, actually, Rich proposed to me like, no, no, no, that was a different day.

Okay, that was a good day too. But Rich came to the set because, He loves Fossey Bear. Fosy Bear talked to Rich, you know, and told them a joke about yo-yo's or whatnot, and it was so beautiful. It was just so, it was the best. It was the best day ever.

I loved every second of it. I'm so grateful for James Bowbin, for putting me in, for as a day player on the Muppets. Thank you, James Bobin. Is there a Muppet that you particularly identify with? It would make sense that comedy writer Rich identifies with Fossey, but is there a Muppet? I think my guy is Kermit because I like the fact that Kermit wants to kind of sort of

be not quite team leader, but sort of make sure everyone gives of their best and stuff. I like that. That's my pet theory that I love Kermit for that reason. Do you have a favorite Muppet? I probably identify most with Miss Piggy. Because she's fabulous and out there and like, Yeah, I think I'm a lot like Miss Piggy and she adores Kermit, which I, you know, adore Rich and you Stuart, you know.

Tell me about something you mentioned at the very beginning, we talked sort of in passing, we talked about affecting social change. I'm not quite sure of the context it came up, but I made a little note of social change because something I'm very interested in doing comedy about the climate is trying to affect change, like doing the most icky thing of. all which is to do comedy with an agenda. Do you think that comedy has a sort of kind of an explicit or implicit kind of healing effect or world changing effect or like do you feel that your work in making people laugh is sort of inherently definitely a good thing to do? Is it just a good thing to do or is there more to it than that? I think it's just the simplicity of making people laugh is already like such an enormous achievement. You know, like it's not easy like we were talking about.

Like it's so that I think on its own is healing. If you're laughing, you're already in a better place. So that's enough. I think, you know, after working like with the Daily Show, I was just listening to The Onion bought the InfoWars over here. You know, there's a feeling and sometimes I know John Stewart and everyone at the Daily show struggled with the fact that there was getting more responsibility put on them besides just like making people laugh.

I think that watching The Daily Show, and I hate to say this, Stewart, but like over and over again point out that Fox News was dangerous. Like every show like Stuart kept, John Stewart kept saying it and it was getting and it, it didn't matter. I just watched it not matter. I just, I've been watching it not affect society the way I wished it would. So I'm a little bummed I don't want to end it there

Is there is there a counter argument That maybe things would be worse without it Like things are definitely pretty bad But maybe things would have got worse faster Or worse in a different direction if I mean maybe I'm clutching at straws here myself But is there could that be it? Yeah yeah I think you're right

I mean it definitely wasn't going to go anywhere Like there's too much money tied up, you know, through the Murdox and Fox and all of it. Like the right-wing propaganda machine that is this editorial channel has really done a lot of damage. I, yeah, but you're right. But calling it out felt so important. But also it got less and less funny. The more nothing was happening. I think, you know, you see, I guess when you say about social change, you know, it's like, where does comedy belong in that?

If we're all laughing together, I think that's really a big push towards harmony. if you can I think and then obviously like look at Trump who won't you know everybody is terrified of a comedian making them look foolish if everyone can laugh at the one at the at a person who's causing damage you know the emperor's new clothes like if we can all turn and say whoops look at you and laugh at you like it is the most powerful thing you can do again that that's not my fourth that's not my forte. I don't know how to do it. But yes, I think it could cause social change. I also think like, again, if you try something different in comedy because you've always wanted to and someone in the audience sees it and they're like, oh, I didn't know I could do comedy kind of different. And they get brave to do it from their voice. That's important too to keep for comedy. Because the more people who have access to comedy the more social change we're going to get. I don't know. That's such a good answer. I thank you. Putting all thoughts of Trump and social change in the

wider world from your head. This is final question. Are you happy? Oh, hey. Yeah. I am happy. I have to remind myself that I am. I forget. I am happy. I am happy. I am happy. I feel like I'm Oh, that's such a, I have to, I have to, sometimes I have to like consider, yeah, I'm really happy. I think like I'm more comfortable being, um, struggling, you know, like I'm more comfortable struggling, which isn't a happy feeling.

So, so it's hard for me to accept that it's okay to be happy to. But right now, everybody's for the most part pretty healthy. we can buy stuff to eat we got clothes we went on vacation i'm doing a show i'm in a show bob's burgers i've got a healthy kid a happyish kid uh i've got a happyish husband thanks for asking you know gratitude is like so slippery and if you if you can just have gratitude as soon as you have it, you are happy. You just have to remind yourself. Thank you.

That was such a beautiful answer. I always used to say and I forget it. And so thanks for reminding me. I always say the luckiest people on earth are the people who are aware that they're lucky, you know. Very, that's a wonderful sentiment. Thank you so much, Kristen. Thank you.

You're welcome. Kristen Shal, the legend of Crystal Sheld, is at the Pleasance Courtyard at 7 from the 12th to the 16th of August and then this big old one-off show at the London Roundhouse on the 17th of August. All of the extras, and the extras in this case include doing the thing that scares you most, even if it doesn't land, and the freedom in only being able to control what you did, not how it is received. I won't tire you out by saying that again, but I'm going to think it again. Oh, yeah. No, it's a big, it's a big thing. All of that and more at patreon.com.com. Pod in a bunch of extras from this episode.

Find out how to see me live at Stuart Goldsmith.com slash comedy. Thank you to Kristen. Thanks to all the PR people that helped me organise that. Thank you to Susie Lewis for logging the episode. Evil producer Callum for generally being evil. And of course, thank you to our insider producers who are James Burry, Alex Wormel, Paul Swaddle, Dave McCarrow, Chris, Rick Gary McClellan, Jay Lucas, Sam, Alan, Keith Simmons, Daniel Powell, I Cave Dave, Roger Spiller, and Luke Hacker. Plus, a huge thank you to our two very special insider executive producers. Lovely to have the executives on board. That's Neil Time Machine Peters and Andrew Portal Gun Dennant, and to the super secret one as well.

I would love to post Amble at you. I can't. I'm in the final. I'm basically a week after the moment at which I kind of shut up. shop for summer and I still haven't managed to shut the shop. So I'm going to get shop shutting. God, if you get the chance, I don't know if Simon Amstall's tour, how much of it there is left. Holy moly, talk about kind of authentic. It's so funny because the stakes, what's at stake in the show is sort of ostensibly so low. The stakes are so low because the show is about being happy and life being glorious and he's trying to make a thing happen, which ultimately doesn't matter

at all other than to kind of satisfy his desire to make the thing happen. And yet it is completely captivating and so full of brilliant, brilliant jokes. I don't think I'd ever seen him live. I might have seen sort of, I might have seen him do like a seven somewhere on a gala, but I'd never seen a full show. And holy moly, absolutely brilliant. So get yourself around that, if you can, and I will speak to you soon. I've got one more episode going out before I take a little break for summer. Nish Kumar next week. It might even be a two-we- parter. Are we doing it as a two-parter? I think we are. So I'll talk to you twice more before the, before the summer is out. I'm out.