The Comedian's Comedian Podcast - Sasheer Zamata (2017): ComCompendium

Episode Date: July 3, 2026

We’re delving back into the archives and going back to episode 220 with Sasheer Zamata, the former SNL cast-member, phenomenally accomplished standup and recent star of Masters of the Universe! We discuss:the confidence with which she frames her actwe delve into her first standup special "Pizza Mind"and uncover her enthusiasm for life-coaching and it's effect on the finely-honed application of her will powerJoin the Insiders Club at patreon.com/comcompod where you can instantly get access to the full back catalogue of extras.👉 Sign up to the ComComPod Mailing List and follow the show on Instagram, YouTube & TikTok.Support our independently produced Podcast from only £3/month at Patreon.com/ComComPod:✅ Instant access to full video and ad-free audio episodes✅ Exclusive extra content you can't find anywhere else✅ Early access to new episodes where possible✅ Exclusive membership offerings including weekly-ish Stu&AsCatch Up with Sasheer: You can follow Sasheer Zamata on Instagram, @TheSheerTruth, and catch her Best Friends Podcast tour throughout the US later this year. Find all the info and more at sasheer.com.Everything I'm up to: Come and see me LIVE - find out all the info and more at stuartgoldsmith.com/comedy. Discover my comedy about the climate crisis, for everyone from activists to CEOs, at stuartgoldsmith.com/climate.Get in touch: If you’re listening and thinking ‘I’d love to work with ComComPod on getting something out there’ or ‘there’s someone you should absolutely have on’ - drop us an email at [e-mail]! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Stuart here. You can go to Stuart Goldsmith.com slash comedy for tickets to my national tour. That's right. I'm taking my second ever climate comedy show. It's called Canary. I'm taking it to the Edinburgh Festival for the last two weeks of August at the Monkey Barrel, Cabaret Voltaire. And I shall see you there in the last two weeks of August. And then it's a national tour for this guy. Cambridge, Glasgow, Oxford, Manchester, Cardiff, Maidenhead, Sheffield and Birmingham, culminating in my biggest ever tour show at Bristol Old Vic. Stuartgoldsmith.com slash comedy for all your tickets. Hello, Stu Goldsmith here. Welcome to the show. This is The Comedians, Comedian podcast, and today we are delving back into the archives and going all the way back to episode 220 with Sashir Zamata, former SNL cast member, phenomenally accomplished stand-up and recent cameo appearance. I don't know, it was a longer role than I think a cameo, but I was surprised to see it, and she was very, very funny, in the Masters of the Universe film, which me and my family enjoyed, and I will say we enjoyed it more than I expected to. So she popped up in it and I thought, oh, that's great.

She was on the show years ago. Let's delve back and find this one. We talk about the confidence with which she frames her act. And oh boy, does she? We delve into her first stand-up special, Pizza Mind, and we uncover her enthusiasm for life coaching and its effect on the finely honed application of her willpower. Live from Just for Last Montreal in 2017, here is Sashir Zamata.

So I saw your show at the Catecouns. Does that show have a name? I mean, does the show have, like, like your special, your first special, Pizza Mind. That's like a finished bit. There we go. Yeah. Where are we in the life of the material you were doing here in Montreal? Yeah, what I did at my solo show here was a mix of stuff from Pizza Mine and then some new stuff.

So there's no name for, it was just an hour of material. Okay. that I did here. So, yeah, there's no... Until I figure out what the new hour is, then I'll slap a name on it. Okay. And how was your...

Were you doing a run? Have you got one left tonight? Have you got... No, I finished it. I did one Monday, Tuesday and Thursday. Okay. And how did they go? Were you happy with that?

They were so fun, yeah. Like, the Monday crowd was super hyped, and I didn't know what a Monday crowd would be like here, but it was great. Tuesday was very fun, and I felt like my last night was like a great way to... to end it so I'm very happy. Oh, great.

Yeah. Okay. And you're someone who, I mean, I suppose watching you completely like I, having never seen you before, I was really struck, I think I said to you when I spoke to you yesterday, I was really struck by your incredible poise on stage. Thanks. So is that something that gets said to you a lot? You have, you're kind of your, not just your delivery, but your whole being on stage

is so just kind of, here's the stuff. Yeah. It's incredibly easy, easy to watch. You're not demanding stuff of us intellectually, but you're not kind of, there's no sense of neediness at all. Yeah, yeah, I've been told that my style is more conversational and feels like I'm just talking to friends than, you know, creating an audience performer relationship. And that's what I want. I want you to feel like you know me and that we are here together and we're communicating because we are. I mean, like, I am performing for you, but I also get feedback.

from you. I can see the audience and I can feel the energy. So it's it's kind of a symbiotic relationship that we're all a part of. And how much of it, how much of your delivery is a decision and how much of it is just naturally how you started off on stage? I think now it feels natural, but it, uh, I worked very hard to be chill. The, the, the, the, the chill vibe that you see on stage is from work, from years of work. Because when I started, you know, like every comic, you're a little stiff and you're trying to figure out how to, you know, perform in this body that is operating what you're saying. But yeah, I'm not sure when, but I was trying to just, you know, be more loose and feel more in the moment. And I think the biggest compliment to me is

when people think that I made everything up on the spot and that they didn't write anything. Like part of me is like, uh, obviously, I hope this. Can you appreciate incredibly hard work? Exactly. Give me credit for writing an hour. But also, that's cool that people think like I have such an ease about me that it's that I'm in the moment. That's what I wanted to seem like.

Okay. So it's what you wanted to seem like and it's what you have kind of crafted it and trained, crafted it and trained it to be like. So does that mean when you started out you were kind of nervous or? hyperactive? Or what did it look like? What were the differences between you now and you on gig one? It wouldn't be nervous. It would just look like I was performing. You could see the work, you know? Okay. So that element has decreased where I am still working, but it just looks smoother. And why is that particularly important to you? Given that of all of the comedians

at this festival, you probably have the most kind of, and again, poised, I don't know, it's not casual. whatever this quality is, I don't quite know how to articulate it, but given that that is a real calling card of your performance, why is that? Why was that so important to you? I guess because that's what I like to see out of other performances that I watch. Like when I watch other people perform when they are in the moment or they make discoveries on stage or in the room, you feel special.

You feel like, oh, this show is just for me, as opposed to like, oh, they're performing in front of a audience. And if you lifted, this person to move them to a different stage, it would feel like the exact same performance. Yes. So I don't want that. I want the people in the room to feel like this is just for them. And what I'm doing is a creation of how I feel right now. Yes. Yes. I totally agree with that. I wonder what other things might be part of that as well.

Is there a set, is it something to do with status? What do you mean? Like, I think you're incredibly high status as a comic. Oh. But not in a way that you're looking down at us at all. you you look very powerful. Ooh, like that. Oh, you must know that.

Huh, I don't know. Or look at on Pizza Mine, so the clips I have seen that are available on YouTube and all the rest of it, you are in front of a beautiful, it's a beautiful theatre. Yeah. Decisions were made there, right? Totally.

It's a beautiful red curtain. You are, I never know how to describe clothes. It's like a gown. Just a jumpsuit. You know, but you, like you look, incredibly elegant and elevated, kind of heightened. You look like you could be about to do a cello recital. Do you what I mean?

And those are decisions, right? So talk to me about those decisions. What does that mean to you to have that? I understand what you're saying about the you want it to be conversational. You want it to not appear like schick. But what else is going on there? Yeah. I guess that is interesting because I do want my vibe to be casual,

but I'm very aware this is a show. So when I make decisions of like, I'm going to wear a beautiful blue jumpsuit and we're going to be in a beautiful stage and have a wonderful curtain that makes my skin look good. These are all things where it's like I'm thinking about this and also thinking about how people are viewing it. I don't love the like I just rolled out of bed and came on stage kind of attitude even though I am trying to create a casual vibe. Yes. So I don't know. I guess I haven't thought about it that much.

But I do want people to feel like, wow, I got a full show out of there. but I also felt really comfortable, you know? I didn't feel like I was being talked at. I felt like I was being talked to. Yes, that's definitely true. So your, do you remember what, like, what video you opening with? Is it the same set list every night at the moment? This week, yeah, I think I maybe added a couple things throughout the week and rearranged some stuff,

but I definitely started the same way every night. So I've seen about 30 comedians this week, so please indulge me. Can you remind me what was your opening? Well, my opening bit is a new one, like really new, talking about this camping trip that I went on with my boyfriend. Yes, taking psychedelics. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my acid trip and listening to the animals and whatnot.

The camping trip was like two or three weeks ago. Oh, really? Yeah. This was truly a new bit that I was like, that's fun. And I did it a few times in New York. And I was like, great, I'll just start with that. And that, for me, makes the set feel fresh because I'm like, already excited about this new bit and then and it kind of rolls into the other stuff I already

have. Okay. And the crux of that routine is that you are, uh, you are having, you know, a profound moment about your place in the universe. Yeah. And then you're aware that you're going to continue having this profound moment for ages while the ass is aware of. Yeah. I was having a, uh, too long of a revelation. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really, I've never, I've never had anyone describe that stuff on stage before. You know, that, you know, I'm, I'm kind of, it's an interesting, it's an interesting topic, I suppose, because if someone said to me, I actually got this really great routine about being on acid, that does not do it justice at all,

but we've all seen a bunch of like, oh, it's an acid and crazy stuff happened. And it's sort of similar, I suppose, in tone to the way that, say, 10 years ago, women couldn't make jokes about menstruation on stage. Certainly in the UK. I mean, you could, but you would be pilloried by other women as well as other men and you know we don't want to hear about that and uh and that has really moved on that you could kind of go oh no we can absolutely talk about menstruating now yeah i wonder if there

is a particular i wonder if the approach is somehow analogous that your bit about taking psychedelic drugs is nothing like the i the stereotype of kind of uh i'd hope so yeah we actually kind of just had a thing about uh women talking about uh their lady parts and whatnot like a female comedian, I guess, kind of made disparaging remarks about other female comics who choose to talk about their vagina all the time. Okay. And quote all the time. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And then some other comedians like Sarah Schaefer created this like fundraiser for Planned Parenthood that also had 50 female comedians talking about their vagina. I feel like I don't think I've seen Sarah Schaefer's act,

but I think she's a blogger as well. Did she write something? She's been a writer. She used to write for Fallon and had her own show, Nikki Glazer. Yeah, she's great. But yeah, I thought it was really funny that she, and they did this show in the West Coast in L.A.

And the East Coast in New York, and I did the New York one. And so it truly was 50 women talking about their vagina. And just, like, you know, anything about it. It could be, like, sex, could be, you know, periods, It's like however you view that childbirth. And I was really, really impressed with how many different versions of jokes there were and different styles. Were you in that lineup?

Yeah, I was, yeah. I actually told the, I don't know if you remember, but I had a joke about this like when I thought I had an STD. And going to Planned Parenthood and getting checked out and whatnot. And so I told that. But yeah, it was so cool to hear like none of these jokes are like a typical. vagina joke. It's like, no, you can actually have many. Because what is a typical vagina joke? That's just any

jokes. It's just a joke. It's any reference to a vagina that probably a man has listened to and thought, oh, this again. Yeah, and it's like, that shouldn't be the reaction. This is a part of us. This is a part of our body that exists and we shouldn't ignore

it. Also, it births people. You came out of a vagina. Why are you grossed out about hearing about it? So, yeah, I'm hoping that that is changing. And then, yeah, same thing with drugs. I think it, when you hear someone saying, like, I was on this trip. And I understand that when people describe trips, if you aren't on that drug as well,

or if you've never done it before, it might be kind of lame to hear it. So I was trying to describe it in a way that you could understand it. I think people can understand being trapped in something for longer than they want. So the idea of like, yeah, absolutely. I was high for four or five hours and I didn't want to be anymore. and yeah just describing how I wanted to like be over it I was so done and with that if that actual event happened only two or three weeks ago

what was the first was that the first time on Monday when you talked about it on stage or had you done some work on that I had worked on it yeah I can you tell us what that work was sorry I interrupted you telling us what that work was I'm okay I have a monthly show in Brooklyn called So Shears and Made a Party Time and it's a variety show and I host it and so at the top, I kind of recount what I'm going through. I just like talk to the audience mostly, but I might sprinkle some established bits in there, but it's kind of a time for me to figure out new stuff. So in, so that show was, I think, the day I got back from that camping

trip. So it was already on the brain and I was just talking about it and I record every set. And so I like listened back and tried to figure out which points people were actually laughing at. And then, um, had a few more shows after that and try to like whittle it down to the parts that were getting the most laughs and that I thought were the most important. That's which aren't necessarily the same parts. Because I think that's a decision what we all make as comedians is the degree to which we're led by their response and the degree to which we're led by what we want to say. Correct.

Yeah. Because there's some things where it's like, no one's laughing at this, but I think it's essential to the joke for you to understand the rest of it. Or people are laughing at this part, but I'm like, that's actually a lame part. Like, I don't know. I don't really need that part. And well done to you for the quality control to throw out a bit that works. Yeah.

You know, again, we all have some kind of like, I just keep doing that bit and I probably shouldn't. I know. Yeah. I've like, I've had people be like, oh, what about this joke that you used to do? That used to hit hard. And I'm like, yeah, but I don't feel like it represents me anymore. Or like.

Can you give us an example of a bit like that? Yeah. I used to talk about sex a lot on stage. and just because I thought it was funny. And then after a while, I was like, this doesn't feel like it really represents me. I mean, I do have sex, but I also was trying to be wary of like how people in the audience perceive me.

Like, I didn't want them to think like, wow, she fucks all the time. Or even if they did think that, who cares? But I didn't want people to leave the show thinking that's all I had to say. And then once I like, I actually gave my sense. of a challenge and I was like, I'm going to try to write jokes that have nothing to do with sex. And then I opened up a whole new world of other things that I wanted to say. But yeah, there was like a joke about how many white guys I've slept with. And it was like, I started telling it like a deaf jam comic.

And it would be like, I've been with so many white boys that, oh, what was it? Oh, okay. And then I think it made It was a call and response This is a lot of old joke So it's truly trying to It's coming back to me But it's like

This is a safe space for you to admit Your old joke Thank you Yeah I've been with so many white boys You can open up a cupcake shop down there Or like a pan-A I just like listed a bunch of white things Panera bread

A Hail and Hardy And then I've been with so many white boys that, or no, so many white boys been beaten up this pussy that you could call it Rodney King. And then people will be like, oh, and I'm like, we need to talk about this. And force people to like be okay with it. And was that hard to let go of that bit once you did. It was a really good bit.

People loved it. And it's like very performative. Like I was, you know, it was a new energy on. stage. But then I wrote other stuff that I loved. So I was like, whatever. I don't know. Yeah. I guess it's hard as in like that was good. But then I if I try to do it now, it would feel so fake. Like I try to do old bits where I'm like, it was good. Let me see. But then it's like, I'm writing things that are personal to me in that moment. So the like I'm, and I'm evolving. I'm changing as a person. So like this joke that I wrote in 2013,

doesn't apply to me now because I've changed and I don't think the same things so yeah there's a lot of jokes I have gone away because I don't believe in them anymore Are there any parts of your

Well let's let me ask you this Of your current material Either new or old but the stuff that you've been doing here in Montreal What is your what is the routine That you think is most representative The comic that you are Or the comic that you want to be? probably my closer, which was the resting rape face bit, where I talk about how I hate the term

resting bitch face and describe why my face is resting because it's just fucking tired of being told to smile of waiting for my turn to speak when I'm in a room full of men and for apologizing for things that I'm not actually sorry for. and that's a thing that women have to deal with all the time just in general. So it's like, no, there's no question why my face is tired. And then I counter it to this guy I'm talking to in the joke and saying, like, oh, it's so funny that you say that I have a resting bitch face this whole time, you've had a resting rape face.

And there's actually a clip of this online right now. And the comments section is wild. Yeah. Just a bunch of dudes being like, oh, the men have resting bitch faces too. And this is a bunch of social justice warrior bullshit. And like, it's so funny where it's like, all I'm doing is saying why I think that I have a regular face. This makes people mad. This makes men mad.

And probably some women, too, who don't realize that they don't have to be mad about this stuff. But I think that's probably in the direction where I'm going where it's like, I don't know, just giving less fucks. And talking about how proud I am to be who I am. And I am a black person. I'm a woman. I'm a black woman. I live in America. And yeah, I'm just proud of the stuff I got.

And I'm tired of people telling me not to be. So the more things I write, the more things that come up that are, that are, like, protecting that, I guess. When you say you're tired of people telling you not to be, do you mean you're tired of people telling you not to be that kind of comic or not to talk about those kind of things on stage? Thankfully, no one who matters is telling you. me that stuff. You know, I've never had a boss or anyone who wrote my checks out or like a manager representation tell me like, maybe you should try this kind of style because that would suck. But, you know, there's tons of trolls or people in the audience that are like, you should be louder or like run around or like, you know, like if there's a heckler, you should attack them or what,

you know, people have like different understanding of what comedy should. be. And especially if you're a woman, I've had people come up to me after shows and give me advice. And I'm like, why do you, Joe Schmo, like you have never been on stage before. Why do you think that you have an idea of what I should be doing on stage? I'm the one getting paid for this show. You paid for this show. But I think some people, mostly men, can't comprehend a woman doing something they can't do or doing it better than them. Yes.

Something not only that they can't do, but that they're scared of, that they love to do, but they're scared of. Yeah. So it's like an attempt to kind of reappropriate or kind of to take some sort of ownership. Yeah. Because I, you know, occasionally men will,

almost know women, but occasionally men will say that to me, but it's very occasional. Yeah. And you do, I clearly get a sense that like, yeah, you want to be doing this, okay? Mm-hmm. I am, of course, far less the subject of... I mean, there's one particular video that is connected with this podcast,

which had quarter of a million views, and it was to do with... I never know what... This is interesting. I don't know whether I want to talk about it on this episode because it's just going to fucking fire up the whole thing again. Loads of MRAs jumped on this thing. Oh, wow.

And... But it's the only time I've had to put up with it. Yeah. So I'm talking about privilege, argument with Bill Burr about whether or not privileges are things. Oh, wow. And nine minutes of it was clipped and put on this MRA website. Yeah.

The title, Bill Burr destroys male feminist. And 250,000 people stopped by to call me a cut fag. And then started to discover my other videos, none of which, you know, stand-up videos, I'm not a political stand-up. I don't have much any feminist material. Yeah. I'll occasionally refer to, you know, I'll try and frame things in such a way that I'm not being lazy. I'm trying to be as kind of on it as possible.

and I will get oh suddenly since that happened now I'm getting a lot of hate like here's a routine about you know a sword and someone's like oh whining cup fag you're like well you're clearly

this is a reference something else now for me that's the irony in that is that they're arguing that privilege isn't a thing and the fact that they're attacking me once only for this thing is like oh that's yeah because I am the beneficiary

of privilege but you don't give a shit the rest of the time because I'm a white man yeah which kind of undermines their theory but anyway do you how are your how are your kind of emotional defenses against that sort of thing given that you're in the territory of being I don't know if outspoken is the right word just kind of firm confident and talking about you know your race and your gender

to what extent do you cope emotionally with being attacked I'm glad you said not outspoken because sometimes people are like wow you're so like yeah brave for like speaking out for women or for for black people or whatever and I'm like I'm literally just talking about my personal experiences I'm not like trying to lead a revolution but I mean I will but I and I'm and I'm glad people are learning things and and hearing a new perspective on things but yeah it's like this is all familiar territory to me it's not me like you know truly learning things and teaching them to people it's like this is normal stuff I guess it doesn't get spoken enough.

That's why it's brave. But for trolls, again, they don't pay me, so I don't give a shit. That is a refreshingly directed for it. Truly. I mean, like, unless it was like all my audience who are paying for my shows, if they're upset, then I would reevaluate what I'm doing and being like, oh, I guess my fan bases, I've disconnected in some way. But if it's like these trolls who just like see two minutes of me on YouTube or like hear me on an interview or something and they don't know anything that I'm talking about or just know me personally or anything that I don't really care.

Have you ever cared? Is that a skin you've had to grow or is that just like this never? Yeah. I think so. I think I don't remember it ever really affecting me. It's just kind of like, oh, people will always hate. Even if I have the best joke ever, someone's going to be like, I can pick apart why that's wrong.

I can find something and find a reason why it offends this group or like why it offends me or, you know, she looks like a whore in this video. You know, like it doesn't matter. They'll find something wrong with it just because I exist and I'm speaking. And I can't get bogged down with that because that's not helping me. That's not giving me any like added like experience or education. education or it's just it's it's unnecessary also it's like I've I personally have never disliked something and then felt like I needed to type it out I just like oh I just like it and then I've also never felt like if I love something that I would type it out either so

this is a different mindset that I don't understand these are people that I don't we're not on the same wavelength so if you're the type of person who's like my dislike this and then your reaction is to spend time out of your day to tell somebody about it, then that's on you. It's, it's almost the covert nature of it. It's fascinating because, like, I don't spend any time particularly, I certainly don't slag anything off online. I spend very little time bigging things up unless I'm, like, particularly blown away by something. And I think that's probably true of a lot of my friends, but you don't know who's doing it because it's all anonymized and I would love to be able or maybe I would be maybe this would be a terrible idea but if you were able somehow to if there was a visual representation like if some people walking around were just like bright purple and you go oh that's because they you know then we could at least gauge how many people it is yeah because it's it's one of the frightening things about online abuse is you've no idea what proportion of the public does this represent yes true but and people also don't think about their actions when they're online like if if you're

you are a person who is inclined to say negative things all the time. Like, um, I've had some people tweet things at me and, you know, depending on my mood, I might like it. They might just like favorite it. Like, that's not beautifully passive, aggressive. He's like, I won't respond. I'll just like, I saw it. And then a few people have been like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

I didn't really mean it. You're actually really funny or like they'll backtrack because they thought I would never see this. Okay. They think I'm a brand or a company or like that maybe someone else is handling my social media or something. They don't know that I'm scrolling through it every night. Every night's quite telling.

Because they get bored. But yeah, but I'm not like looking for shit. But if some things pop up, I'm like, oh, okay. And yeah, depending on if I want to do something, I might like it. But yeah, there was like some guy who was tweeting at me a lot and just like stupid. stuff. Like, it wasn't specific to, like, you're not funny or this joke was bad. It was just like, like, like, race stuff or just like whatever the base, like, um, insult could be. And I looked at his account and it was created like a day or two ago. And it was, and,

and with a fake picture. And I was like, oh, you are a troll. You, you are definitely just trying to make people upset. And then he, I looked at his tweets and he was just tweeting all sorts of celebrities saying the same stuff. And I was like, well, then I don't care. If that's what you get, like, if that's the enjoyment you get out of life, then go for it. But to me, it's like, oh, then you clearly don't care about me because you're tweeting everybody. How long have you been performing? Since I was, like, nine. I've been in gospel choir and my church and then show choir in high school and musicals.

And whereabouts are you talking? I don't know where you're from. I'm from Indiana. Okay. Indianapolis, Indiana. And, yeah, yeah, I was in my church choir. And then I auditioned for an improv team in my high school. And I made it.

But then the rehearsals interfered with my show choir rehearsals. So I quit. But then I did improv in college and really loved it. And then the touring company for UCB, the uprisons Brigade Theater, came to my college. I saw them and I was like, I got to go wherever they're from. and then moved to New York. But I majored in drama, so I thought I was going to be in Broadway

and, like, I was auditioning for all these plays. Did you want to be? Or was it like that was the only version of being a performer that you thought was available? I guess that's the option I thought was available. Because I, looking back, I mean, I love theater and I appreciate the art form, but I didn't love that grind.

That wasn't for me. like getting up really early and waiting hours and hours to be seen. And they treat you differently when you have a sag card and when you don't. So I didn't have a sad card yet. Your union card. Because you have to like audition a certain amount of times and being a certain amount of plays. And there's like so many rules. And I was like, I just want to get on stage right now.

And I would go to UCB and watch shows. And you could. I mean, you couldn't get on immediately. But you could like take classes and then have. a practice group and then your group could start a show at a bar somewhere and then you could just like perform whenever and you have to rehearse I mean we had practices but um you know I liked the aspect of how everything was new yes you could just create it and then that was the only time that show happened and then the next time you come it's a totally different show and how old were

you when you were when you were at when you were at college and you first encountered ucccc i guess uh 21 okay okay okay that's interesting that they kind of robs into town. It's a bit like running away with a circus. Oh, yeah. You said I want to go wherever they're going. I guess that's what happened. Yeah, they took me. So you then went on to work with UCB? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I took improv classes and then sketch classes.

And then shortly after that started doing open mics for stand-up. And it just kept doing all of it at the same time. And were you one of their, like, I don't know too much about UCB? but I would guess in any group of people who are all hungry to do a thing. Are there, there's particular characters, there's particular stars, the people who tend to do the best. Were you one of them or were you...

After a while, yeah. Yeah, nicely put. At first, you know, I was a student like everybody else, but then I failed my 401 class. They have improv 101, 2, 1, 3, 101, 401. You're supposed to pass your 401, and then if you pass, there's like advanced study, and then, and also you need to pass your 401 in order to audition for a house team.

Okay. And what did you find out? I failed 401 and I, the notes were like, I mean, at the time I was like, I did not deserve to fail. And I can't remember what my notes were, but I felt like the teacher maybe was checked out, but it truly doesn't matter. But now I'm thankful that I failed because that made me pause in my curriculum. I just stopped taking classes for like a few months, like half a year, really.

And then for my own improv group because I was like, I'm just going to perform. I don't need to take these classes to do that. I just, I'm going to find my own group, perform the way I want. Because the notes I would get sometimes would be like, you need to be bigger or louder or more crazy. You have crazier characters. But I like being a straight man. Like, I like being, or a straight person. And I like wrangling the crazy rather than creating the crazy.

And in my, I had a three-person group called Doppelganger, which was me, Nicole Byer, and Keisha Zaller, three ladies, three black ladies, which was like unheard of at the time. And we kind of took over. We like did, we were killing it. We were doing our own little indie shows. And then there was a competition where the teams, two teams would, you know, we were. would compete and the audience would vote who would keep going to the next week, and we won a lot. And we were beating some of our teachers. And, yeah, it was a really...

So you can have an honorary 401 pass, is that there? Yeah, I actually beat my teacher who was teaching my second 401 while I was in class. But yeah, that was, I mean, I guess that's kind of how most things in my life go, where I get rejection in something, and then I go create my own thing, and then it turns out to be better for me anyway. Yes. Why was, why was doppelganger so successful? I think our chemistry was amazing. Like, we all play very differently. Like, Nicole's very in the moment, and she's kind of like a bowl and a china shop. She'll just, like, drop any kind of move and then everyone else has to deal with it. Like, I think in the future, like, okay, how can we use what's going on later? And then Keisha

thinks in the past, where she's like, what did we do? five moves ago and how can we bring it back. So it's really a nice, like, puzzle that we've created where everyone's working on a different thing. And it's like, I'm so thankful Keisha's there because it's like, oh, thank gosh, you remember that thing that we did

10 minutes ago, because I would have forgot. And, you know, thank God, Nicole created this crazy move so that we could like propel the scene and then I'm trying to wrap it up in a bow. And, yeah, it's just always so fun. And was there, what was the kind of the creative,

dynamic between you? Was there a sort of a friendly competition? Or was it all that you were working? At that time, definitely working together. And then we got so much attention. And the AD at the time, Anthony King, told us and Elle about us. Because he was like,

there are these three funny ladies here and you should look at them. And so a producer came, watched our show, told us to submit. And then that was like, you know, great for all of us. but does create some tension because we're all now competing. Yeah. For this role.

For one role? Yeah. Yeah. And as I understand it, one ethnically diverse woman since forever. Like it was it, there was like, oh, this is the one place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was no, A, that's problematic in its own way. And also, there's no question that they're going to go, oh, we'll take two of you or all three of you.

Yeah. I mean, they could have. I wish they did. They didn't. So, like, we all auditioned for years. Like, this was maybe, like, 2011. I can't really remember. But, uh, yeah, we, like, submitted tapes and writing packets. And then there would be showcases where you do your five minutes in front of an audience and in front of the producers and Lorne. And then I feel like that. Then they bring you into test. And so Nicole tested a year before I did. And they liked her a lot. And then she didn't get it. And then the next. year is when they had that push for diversity and me and Nicole were both doing showcases. And she already lived in L.A. at this time. And so she did the L.A. showcase. I did the New York showcase. And then I was the only one who got called. I mean, you know, of my friends got called in for a test. And then I got cast. But that, you know, I would be lying if I always said that

that was an easy thing for us for our friendship. Because everyone wants that job. If you do comedy. I mean, not everyone, but most people do want a chance to do that job. And we're great now, but it took a lot of personal growth for both of us and a lot of adult conversations for us to be okay with still working together, but understanding we're just now we're doing different things and that's okay. Did you have to let her know that you got it? I did. She was the third person I called. I called my mom, my dad, and then her. And yeah, it took her a while to be very, really happy for me. And through that time, how did you feel?

So shitty. I felt like I couldn't talk to her. I felt like I couldn't tell her things that were happening in the office or like cool things that happened or bad things that happened because it felt like I was bragging because, you know, she wanted this. Yeah. So. And was there one particular, you say it was a lot of kind of adult conversations. Was there, was there a particular way of phrasing it? or a way of you framing it between you

that you kind of went, that's it, dealt with now. I don't know. I don't think there was a moment where it's like, oh, got that taken care of. Like I said, it was a lot of conversations, a lot of drunk in the rain conversations

or late night phone calls where, you know, we're talking about how we really feel. And this is also not even the first time we encountered this. Because like, when we were younger in the industry, there was, there's a show called Girl Code that Nicole audition for got it, but I didn't even get a chance to audition for it. And so when she told me, my first response was, oh, well, why didn't I audition for that instead of congratulations. So it's like, we both do it to each other. And this will continue to happen probably for the rest of our careers, because we are two funny black women. And until we get to a point where we all get so many chances, and there's not just like a certain number for us.

then we will compete with each other. I did an interview recently with a British comic and improviser called Piper Evans where she told a similar story about the nature of dealing with professional jealousy between female friends. And it struck me down as it strikes me more deeply now that I've never heard a man televolution of that story. I've never heard a guy go, so me and my friend, we were at risk of falling out so we really talked about it and had some mature conversations.

I mean, the idea is sort of reasonable. I know. I know. Because it's like, yeah, you'll probably just find another opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. For women, I think also, especially women of color, we're like very aware that there's probably only so many chances for us. So it's like, well, if you got that, they're not looking for another one. Which is so silly. But I do think it's changing and it's getting better. I think shows and producers and studios are seeing that people. want to see more voices and more just options. And so hopefully you'll get better. But, you know, right now. I was saying before, having not really been an expert on SNL and only getting into it recently, probably in the UK, I have a lot of people that, you know, a lot of comedy superfans in the UK, a lot of comedians have been into SNL. It's not something that had been on my radar. And I sort of, it's not something that had been on my radar as much as,

I feel it should. I feel like, oh, God, where do I start? You know, there's so much. There's so much, yeah. But one of the things, obviously, that it has really hit off is all the Trump, you know, Baldwin doing Trump. And via that, I then, only in researching you yesterday, did I go, oh, you were Keely on Black Jeopardy?

Oh, yes. Yeah, okay. Well, that I saw, you know, because I got into Trump and then I just ended up watching loads and loads and loads of Black Jeopardy. Yeah, that's a great sketch, right? So did you, I, in my kind of very naive, underage, understanding of how the show works, were you writing on Black Jeopardy? No.

Brian Tucker and Michael Chey wrote those Black Jeopardy sketches. Okay. And then the performers can pitch lines if they want. So there's probably a couple jokes that I pitched, but no, I didn't. I didn't really help write the sketch. Okay. Okay. And how does that feel?

What are there, as a writer performer yourself, how do you cope with, Cope sort of suggest? I don't be to suggest it. mean negative about it, but obviously if you are pitching an idea for a joke and they go, no, you're fine. Just say our words. How's that? Is it frustrating or is it just, are you kind of going, I'm so pleased to be here? It can be frustrating, but you know, after, I was there for years. So part of me was like used to it. It was like, oh, whatever. Like, all your good ideas go in the trash at the end of the week, even if it went on air. It's like, now we're done, and then we

have to reset and then start over again. So there's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, really taught me how to kill your darlings and not be too attached to an idea because it could be, we could have a good idea up until the show starts, up until the sketch. And then for some reason, we're running out of time and then we have to cut lines. And then it's like, whatever. For the good of the show, we have to pair things down and then change things. And, you know, maybe like legal says that we can't say this thing now or whatever. Or this advertiser for some reason doesn't like this topic. There's so many things that go into that show that I don't even know about that

dictate how we execute what we do. So yeah, by the end I was like, whatever. Yeah. That's interesting that idea for the good of the show. Presumably the good of the show doesn't, like someone's idea, like the steering hand of the show, their idea of the good of the show doesn't necessarily tally with your idea of what's best for the show. Yeah, that can happen.

And that's, there's nothing, I'm not the boss, so there's nothing I can really do about that. Yeah, yeah. Go and make your own show. Exactly, yeah. Also, not everyone came knowing each other. Like, this is kind of a smattering of people who have different writing styles, have different performing styles, and we're just told to, like, make it work. And that works all the time, but also it's like, you know, it'd be easier if it's like, you and your buddies getting together. Yeah. I suppose one of the most,

valuable qualities as an S&L staff? Is that the right word? Team member? Yeah. Cast member and then writers. One of the most valuable qualities must be the flexibility to be able to work with other people's sense of humor and other people's working style. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I feel like I came away with a better understanding of how to communicate my ideas to people who may not understand them right off the bat.

and then also collaborating with different people who have different styles and humor and yeah, I learned a shit ton and it was so valuable. That's stuff you can't pay for because you're just getting thrown in there

and they're like, make something. And you have to because we only have five more days until the show. Can you give us an example of like one of the lessons that you took away from that? Nothing specifically.

want to say. Oh, yeah, okay. Well, that's fine. Or maybe a preconception you had going in that was disproved. I guess I don't know if this was a preconception, but I was surprised to see, like, how, like, what writing night is. We write everything in one night on Tuesday. And you kind of just find your tribe. You kind of just find people who you jive with.

and then write together. But it's not like an open room where we're pitching ideas to together and like saying like, okay, you write that, you write that. There's no real like communication throughout the whole floor. It's just like kind of a lot of closed doors

and people being like, okay, well I'm writing this with this person and then I'm writing this with this person and then you have to like find those people. And I started mid-season, so I had no idea who my people were. So it's a lot less like the kind of big table in 30 Rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very much individual offices.

And then when you get to the, I remember I spoke to Hannibal Borese on the show, and he was talking about putting the script up on an OHP and beating the jokes. Yeah, yeah, you got to like, that happens throughout the whole week. People will, like, give punchups. And then there's like, you're rewriting the sketches and then punching up the joke. Because it might be funny during a rethrow, but we can make it funnier. What lessons stick in your mind as things that you manage to take with you into your stand-up? Like, presumably, I mean, would you have time to be doing stand-up whilst you were doing that?

Yeah, I did do stand-up while I was doing it, which was, I was so happy to do that. I guess if I had a bad week, I could go on stage and just like... Agency. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, I know what I'm doing, yeah. Or even have had a good week, but it was just nice to be able to go on stage and just say, whatever I wanted to have an immediate reaction from the audience instead of creating something. Maybe no one read it or maybe we did read it. We didn't pick it. And then I'm just like, you know, kind of waiting around the rest of the week. But I'm trying to think of a lesson.

I don't know. I guess I just learned like how to stand up for what I wanted or like the things that were important to me. And I didn't always win. but I at least left feeling super confident in knowing what I want, where I think when I showed up, I was just happy to be there. And I was like, I'm ready to go. I'll do whatever, whatever you say. And I was trying to, like, fit into the mold of the show. And then by the time I left, I was like, no, I know my mold.

I know what I like and what I want. And I don't think that I have to try to plug myself into this thing if that doesn't feel right. So did you, how does it work when you're leaving the show? Do you, did you decide to leave to focus on your stand-up? I decided to leave, yeah, and to focus on whatever I want. But yeah, stand-up, acting, writing. Sorry, my preoccupation is always stand-up. Totally, yeah, yeah.

A lot of other strings to your boat. But so was that a hard decision to make, or were you ready to go? I was ready to go. But that doesn't mean that wasn't a hard decision. It's like breaking up with somebody. you know like you might feel like this needs to end but that doesn't mean the love's gone

still love that show I'll still watch that show but I you know thought about for a long time and had many many conversations with the people who worked there about it and decided it was time to go and then how soon was it like when you walked out the door

like the last time you left what was the like the very next thing that you did creatively was that your own stand-up or was it like to take a break from it or? I think maybe I didn't get on stage for a week or something. And then getting on stage after that was weird because I was like, do I talk about it? Do I like, does everyone know?

It's so hard to know what people know about the show or what they don't know because it feels like sometimes everyone's talking about what's going on with SNL. And then sometimes I talk to people and they're like, oh, I don't really watch it. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know. I don't pay attention much, which is great. It's like talking to family members almost. So you go, oh, you know, name of huge comic, said this or don't there.

And they're like, I've never heard of them. You're like, oh, yeah, it's sort of only really massively important in my head. Yeah, totally, which is nice. Yes, yes. So you, how long will we talk? When about did you leave? The finale, I think, was May 20th. And that was the last time.

May it just gone? Yeah, yeah. This is a huge hole in my research. I'm sorry, I didn't realize it. Having read about it, and it wasn't following the dates. And when was Pizza Mine released? March 30th. So within the season.

So that was released before. I understand. Okay. Yeah. And there's a boring technical question. Tell me about the decision to put the special on CISO, because that's not something that I had heard of before, that platform. Is that a well-known platform?

Were you like a kind of spearhead for their... Kind of, yeah. It's new. So it's owned by NBC Universal. So it's kind of in the NBC family. And they were just really excited about me and what I had. going on. And they were also like, let me be in control of a lot of stuff. They let me, you know, creatively have a lot of input in what was going on. So I felt like that was really important for,

for me. And I don't know if that would have happened somewhere else, because that was my first special. So being somewhere else, they may be like, oh, you can't do this, you can't do this, you can't do this or that's cute but we don't want to do that and uh you know cito was very hands-off and they're like we support you we want you to do well we want it to be good and in your voice so and that seems like a good fit for the sort of performer you are yeah yeah definitely so what's next what's next um more stand-up and tv and movie stuff i booked two movies i'm going to shoot them in august september which is tell us what the movie's up one is a indie drama called ghetto plainsman and it's about a gay man in the 80s 90s who's trying to like find himself and I'm his

best friend who's an actress in New York so you know real stretch for me and I'm in the Amy Schumer comedy and yeah and I'm still in talks of other projects too so okay yeah and are you feeling I mean it's like you are you feeling kind of world at your feet at the moment um a lot little bit yeah yeah people were really excited for me and excited that I'm available and that I can do more of my own work and I'm excited to give it to them so what are to wrap up then what are some of the like I feel like you're incredibly confident intelligent skilled do you're I mean you're just like yep I've got this are there any chinks in your armor oh yeah definitely yeah I can't think about the top of my head because I'm so I'm so I'm

So confident and strong and intelligent. But like are you, I'm interested in, I suppose if I were listening to this interview like, you know, sort of separate to it, I would, I kind of go, I think I think, I'm really pleased for you. This is all very well. How do I get to be more like this? Or what kind of, what sorts of either, how can I be more like this? Or what sort, like, let me know that you struggle as well. Oh, sure. I'll let you know that struggle, if I must.

I guess I just got okay with rejection. I got a lot of nose before I started getting yeses. I'm still getting nose. And I probably will continue to get nose as I keep going in my career. So just realizing that the nose don't mean that I'm bad. It just means that wasn't a good fit. and I just got to keep going and finding where I fit in and where I feel most comfortable and where my voice can flourish the most

and then it will be great. And I guess now I'm so confident in what I have to say and what I want that when someone doesn't want what I got, I'm like, that's their loss. Where before it would have been like, oh, they don't want me. Okay, that means I need to change or like that means that I should probably be better at X, Y, and Z. And if I don't care about X, Y, and Z, why am I trying to get better at that? So I need to just focus on, like, what actually makes me happy and makes me feel fulfilled

artistically. And if someone gets it, then I'll keep them. You know, I'll keep that working relationship. And if they don't, then it doesn't matter to me. You don't need to be here. And is that, is that approach learned? And if it is learned, is it purely learned from the choices you've made in your career and how people have treated you? Or are you like, that seems like such good software, like mental software. Is it, are you like, have you read self-help books about it? You've been on a personal development course you have. Oh, definitely.

Yeah. Ah, okay. Can you tell us a bit about that? Yeah. I mean, I'm so into like personal development and learning about yourself and self-care and stuff. The artist's way helped me a lot by Julia Cameron. It's like a 12-week workbook where you, you, you, you,

take yourself on artist dates, you journal, you just try to figure out your goals, and then you have a better way to approach it afterwards. And I also have a life coach. And I took her, she has a class that was kind of like time management for artists that I took like in 2000, I don't know, 12 or something. And I remember at the end of the class, I was crying because I didn't want to end because I thought it was so helpful. I mean, because we really, we thought about our goals for the next year. So it was like, you know, July 29th of 2018, I want to have written and produced a movie. I want to have toured to these different countries I've never been to.

I want to have booked these commercials or whatever the things are. And then you work backwards and you go, okay. So if I have to do that, nine months from now, these things need to happen. And then six months from now, these things need to happen. You just work backwards, even to the week. And it seems so simple, but it's like, you won't do it. You need someone to tell you to do it. So having that structure and having someone check me on it every week was really helpful for me.

And then we stopped, and I was like, well, fuck, I'm never going to do this again. But then I did, and I had SNL in my goal list. and after but there's also like things you can't control so it's like my the thing I could control was like I would like to have done well at this showcase for audition for for for S&L and hopefully they call me in kind of thing and yeah I looked at my my notebook like a year later and I was like oh I did I did do all the goals so it did it did stick and and now that teacher is my life coach and we do we have a one-on-one Skype session every month to kind of reassess what's going on in my life and like, now what goals do I have and how do I approach it this way?

And it's really like, I like it a lot. I think it's really helpful. She doesn't, like, shame me if I don't like, oh, you didn't finish this outline, so that's bad. It's like, okay, you didn't. Why didn't you? Maybe you don't think it's important right now. Maybe we should put that on the back burner and think of something else. And like, yeah, it's just thinking about just analyzing how you're already thinking

and just following those paths. And it's like, okay, maybe I'm actually leaning more to this. I don't know, podcast idea or like this, this variety show idea. Maybe, because I keep going that direction. So maybe I should follow that and see where it goes. That is such a great answer. I really, unlike me and everyone listening to this, it's like, who is this lady?

Can we get in touch? Her name is Betsy Cape so you can, like, hit her up. You're a walking advert for her. And for that sort of system, that's really, that's really inspiring to hear someone kind of taking the reins in that manner because I think it's easy, certainly in the UK to kind of the idea of self-help, you know, either self-help books or what have you, is, you know, it's probably, we probably feel similar about it that we do to therapy, which is that people who are into it are like, this is really great. But there's not kind of any shining examples. Yeah. Oh, this is, this is great and this is how it should work. Yeah. I recommend therapy too. That really, even though, I mean, I don't know if you remember the joke about how my therapist was crazy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, of course. Of course.

She was a lunatic, but I did still feel like I got a lot out of therapy. And, I mean, as a creator, all I'm doing is talking about myself and how I relate to things in the world. And the more I know about myself, the better. So I would also recommend that people learn about yourself. What do you like? What do you not like? What are you striving for? What made you who you are today?

the things in the past that you're trying to run away from? What are the skeletons in your closet you don't want to address anymore? Let's address them. Let's, you know, put that out there because maybe someone else can relate to that. Yeah, there's like so many ways that therapy opened up new doors in my mind where I was like, oh, I should probably be talking about this because it matters to me or it scares me and I need to get it out in some light. So, yeah, all that stuff is good. Just like exploring more things in your mind is only beneficial to your work. So you can follow Sashir and Marta on Instagram at The Shear Truth. That's at the sheer truth.

And catch her best friends podcast tour throughout the US later this year. Find all the info and more at Sashir.com. Oh my God, to have a dot com of your own first name. Incredible. You can also find out how to see me live, all the Edinburgh Fringe stuff, my tour, my climate comedy, the UK national tour this autumn. Find out everything and join the Comcompod mailing list at Stuart Gullsmith.com. slash comedy. See you soon.