The Comedian's Comedian Podcast - Stevie Martin (2021): ComCompendium

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

Welcome back for another ComCompendoum, this time with Stevie Martin where we discuss:the huge amount of time and prep that goes into her workthe internal battle to feel like a “proper comedian” in an industry that prioritises certain styles, backgrounds and looks.her brilliant former sketch outfit Massive Dad and whether their aesthetic made them “unapproachable” as performersthe relative loneliness of stand-upand trying to love Edinburgh in the way that it deserves to be lovedJoin the Insiders Club at patreon.com/comcompod where you can instantly get access to the full back catalogue of extras including with Stevie!👉 Sign up to the ComComPod Mailing List and follow the show on Instagram, YouTube & TikTok.Support our independently produced Podcast from only £3/month at Patreon.com/ComComPod:✅ Instant access to full video and ad-free audio episodes✅ Exclusive extra content you can't find anywhere else✅ Early access to new episodes where possible✅ Exclusive membership offerings including weekly-ish Stu&AsCatch Up with Stevie: Find out when Stevie Martin is performing near you at steviemartin.com. You can also keep up-to-date on Instagram, @5tevieM.Everything I'm up to: Come and see me LIVE - find out all the info and more at stuartgoldsmith.com/comedy. Discover my comedy about the climate crisis, for everyone from activists to CEOs, at stuartgoldsmith.com/climate.Get in touch: If you’re listening and thinking ‘I’d love to work with ComComPod on getting something out there’ or ‘there’s someone you should absolutely have on’ - drop us an email at [e-mail]! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Stuart here. You can go to Stuart Goldsmith.com slash comedy for tickets to my national tour. That's right. I'm taking my second ever climate comedy show. It's called Canary. I'm taking it to the Edinburgh Festival for the last two weeks of August at the Monkey Barrel, Cabaret Voltaire. And I shall see you there in the last two weeks of August. And then it's a national tour for this guy. Cambridge, Glasgow, Oxford, Manchester, Cardiff, Maidenhead, Sheffield and Birmingham, culminating in my biggest ever tour show at Bristol Old Vic. Stuart Goldsmith.com slash comedy for all your tickets. And welcome back for another Comcomcompendium. A Comcomcomcom? Compendium or a Comcomcompendium? I'm not sure. Maybe I haven't decided this time. This is Stevie Martin from way back in 2021. We are going to discuss the huge amount of time and prep that goes into her work. We'll talk about the internal battle to feel like a proper comedian in an industry that prioritises certain styles, backgrounds and looks, presumably by now, some five years later. She really does feel like a proper comedian, I hope so. We talk about her brilliant. former sketch outfit, massive dad, and find out whether their aesthetic made them unapproachable as performers. That's a juicy bit of chat. We'll talk about the relative loneliness of stand-up compared to being in sketch and trying to love the Edinburgh fringe in the way that it deserves to be loved. From back in 2021, here's Stevie Martin. Thank you for coming on the podcast. I'm so excited to have you.

It's absolutely, I'm thrilled. And also, I genuinely, for the first time now, feel like I can call myself a comedian. I'm not even doing. Excellent, excellent. Some people sometimes say that, and it makes me feel very proud. And also, the problem is, once you've been on the show,

you won't respect me anymore. That's what happens. Good, good, yes, can't wait. So, here's a thing. I asked for questions. There's two observations before we start. One, I asked for questions for you from the Facebook group.

And all of the questions were, I've got no question. I just love her. That's very nice. huge amount of like you're one of those people I think who inspires people to really champion your stuff oh that's brilliant because you don't really hear what people are saying in well it's specifically in your facebook group um so i don't you just sort of and i very much fill in the gaps and i'm obviously filling in the gaps being like now everyone hates me i'm the shit um so that's very kind and nice

I don't really know why that would be. And do you, well, let's just, let's start there. Do you get a sense of, do you get to hear how people feel about you? Do you avoid all the comments? Because you're pretty prodigiously out there on social media. I don't very much how much. So do you, do you read comments, YouTube videos? You've had stuff go viral.

Do you avoid all of it? Or do you kind of get, I mean, I'm asking you about your podcast now because you have a podcast about social media. But let's just do that for a minute. Yes. Like in terms of how much feedback do you get from the stuff you're putting out? I actually, weirdly, I think I do get a lot of feedback and I do read everything. So I'm not one of those people.

I wish I could be one of those people who says things like, you know, I don't read reviews. And you're like, no, I absolutely do. And I do go on the podcast that I have. I've got a podcast called Nobody Panic and that's been going for a long time. And I do go on the little reviews. And whenever the song was on the other day that was like, the title was, chill out, Stevie. And I was like, oh my God. And it was like, Stevie.

I love the podcast, but I've noticed Stevie's been being very mean to her co-host, Tessa, and I was like, what? Then I like mess with Tessa being like, I'm so sorry, babe. She was like, no, I've not noticed it. So you're fine. I think it was because we had Ed Gamble on and we both sort of ganged up on her because it was about bad restaurant guests and she does all of the things wrong. That's fine.

But so I do. But I also, what I get very frustrated about is that especially with comedy, the other reviews, I kind of tend to just be able to, please be a journalist, and you get a lot of edits, and you're getting told, that's not funny, this doesn't make any sense all the time, and you learn to be like, okay, fine, this is the job, it's fine. And I still haven't learned how to do that with comedy. So reviews break my heart more than I've ever known. And when people, like, have comments that are anything other than that was the best thing I've ever seen, I'm like, please, no. Yeah, so I'm kind of like learning how to do that with YouTube, thankfully, people have just

been very nice about my online sketches that I've done. And I only get down if like they don't do very well. I'm like, no, you're all, but I've started to switch now that I'm not like, that's because the sketch was rubbish. And now I'm like, oh, you just don't know what's good. And that's quite good. Because that means, that makes me feel very powerful and confident. So yeah. Is there also an element of recognising when a sketch, sort of in inverted commas, does well or not, or does well enough. Is there an element by which you kind of recognise the algorithm as your enemy or your friend or a fickle friend whereby you sort of think does stuff, does do likes and views and shares represent a decent metric of quality? Or is that stuff out of your hands? Oh, it's out of your

hands because basically what I figured out is there has to be, on like, within the first day, essentially, there has to be when you've released something, a certain amount of people who have like over a million followers to retweet it. And if that doesn't happen, or not over a million, maybe like, but just basically a good old watch. And if that doesn't happen,

it won't happen because the algorithm seems to kind of favor things that do well quickly. It's very rare, and I'm sure it does happen, but it's very rare for me that something will do sort of fine and then gain steam.

It basically comes out of the gate massive or it doesn't really do very much. And it's a very strange, feeling because there's been a couple of ones that I've done that are my favourite and they've done fine. I always say fine for me is like, I don't know, if it's got like a hundred thousand or above, I'm like, great, on Twitter. If it's got like more than 1,000 on YouTube, I'm like absolutely smashing it. So it's different depending on what the... Do you mean views or likes? So views, yeah. And yeah, I've not really looked at likes and stuff because I just look at the views

because I think that's like the thing that that shows me the results better because that's not really a sentence. But so for example, I put like a coffee link underneath and the views will equal how much money I get basically or how much people have just seen it. And you kind of, you know, but yeah. So when that doesn't happen with something after like 12, 24 hours, I'm like, okay, well that was not going to do. It's not going to get millions.

But like I'm very proud of it, you know, still. Yeah. But it is strange because you are reliant so much on just random people specifically retweeting it. And if they don't, that's fine. But it's weird to, it's not about, essentially, no, it isn't about the quality of the thing. It has to be, I think, good. Otherwise, no one would like to watch it. But good is a very big spectrum, isn't it?

You can be quite good or incredibly good. And it doesn't matter. So, yeah. And it's been taking a long time to kind of separate that and not be like, oh, no, because For ages I was playing sketches out and no one was watching them. So it's only since last November that people have been, that a lot of people have been watching them, yeah. So I came to you via, I mean initially Massive Dad.

Yes. And then, which is your sketch group, which is still, does Massive Dad still exist? Or is it paused or stopped? No, it stopped. So we stopped sort of in like 2017, maybe. And we just did our own kind of. separate. We still did bits and bobs, but we don't, we haven't engaged in stuff. We're all still

friends and I do the podcast with Tessa and I am very close friends with Liz as well and like, yeah, we just decided it just, you know, we didn't want to be in a sketch group anymore. We wanted to do our own stuff and yeah. Okay, okay. Because I wasn't sure what you were, like I knew you as a massive dad person and then I had met you previously as a reviewer and I knew that you were doing stuff. Increasingly, you would pop up in my, my various feeds. And then you were on, you were on Twitch as well, because you're all over the place. And I would go, oh, Stevie's doing lots of stuff.

And it was only really, very recently that I started kind of checking through your back catalogue, as it were. And holy shit, you are so, so funny. And it's one of those things where I kind of, I end up reflecting on, God, how fucked is the, not the industry, but like the current model, whereby I'm only just finding that out. because if you look at your... Like I was looking back at some massive dad sketches, you know, the women who are lawyers,

like high-flying lawyers who keep falling into commercial, you know, advertising cliches or trying to split the bill, like really high production value sketches that I guess were made about five years ago or so. And then seeing your... Like from those, having got to those via seeing your shorter sketches on YouTube and on Twitter, which are just...

The editing is so, so sharp. And you are just... You're doing almost like that Auntie Donna thing of the edit, like deliberately getting out halfway through the joke, halfway through the punchline. I love us, Donner. I mean, you know, they are, and they, I guess, like you, are people who have maybe not been created within the internet,

but have always had one eye on the fact that people are engaging with it differently. You are not someone, I guess, and maybe you are, and we can talk about this, but it doesn't seem like you started off doing regular sketches and thought, God, I better get on the internet. so much as someone who is just kind of who lives within it. So I will stop love bombing you in a second, but I was properly, properly. There are so many like shout laugh moments in your videos. And I really, not only was I thinking, oh, great, can't wait for this.

But also, I did find myself thinking that is like the classic problem of any artist. It's bloody, it's about distribution, isn't it? Because it must be so frustrating to be being really, and I, I mean, I hope I feel this myself. I hope I haven't felt this frustration for so long that I've given up. But to be thinking, this is brilliant. This is really, really funny. How can I fucking tell people about it?

Because I, for one, should have known that you were this funny for a few years by now, rather than comparatively recently. Well, I spent a lot of money at the end of a fringe festival trying to tell people. Well, yes, and does that work compared to actually making content every day in releasing it. No, it does not. For me, no it does not. I think the, well, for a start, I don't have that where I go, God, I'm so, I just can't get the distribution. I don't really feel that.

But I very much am just constant. And so very constantly, I think I rely too much on outside thing, a praise in a way, which I think we all do to a certain extent. But I, so I did Edinburgh, my solo show in 2018. And it was just, I just did, like, I just did joke. So I did like, it was just like, there was no through line, there was no anything. I just basically put a joke every 10 seconds and tried, and just thought, well, this will be, because I just like jokes. Like, I just like stupid, silly jokes.

And the silly of the better, like the most ridiculous, the better and the more surreal, you know, I love it. That's not really what people wanted. I mean, I have a lovely time doing the show and now I look back, I go, that show was actually really fun. You get a good old, honestly, I think everybody would laugh at it. three times. There's so many jokes in there. But because it wasn't, you know, I didn't have a story. I wasn't, you know, I didn't have, I didn't really show me. No one really knew what my accent really was. Like, I don't. And then, so then it didn't, it didn't, it didn't do great. And then it was like, okay, but I didn't do great. I mean, I got a lovely audience,

but it didn't, you know, I didn't, what does that mean, actually? Yeah, it was really good. Loads of people laughed. I had a great time, but I wasn't catapulted to immediate success. Therefore, it was a failure. Exactly. there was available, but also as well, like, it didn't critically do particularly well. People kind of, I got, had some absolutely shocking reviews where it was like, but who is she? Where's their honesty?

And I was like, oh, shut up. I don't know. I just want to make you laugh. Did you laugh? No, so you didn't like it either. Fine. I basically couldn't tell whether I was any good or not, like at all. And I just felt very insecure and very like, oh, I shouldn't have done this.

This is a terrible, terrible mistake. And then I signed with Avalon who were like, you should go back. And I was like, well, fuck. But then I also. wanted, I love Edinburgh, so sorry I'm talking about something completely different now that you ask me, but it is sort of related. And then I did Edinburgh again in a second year and I love

that show and I'm doing it again as I know, I love that show. Yes, I felt really proud of it because it was like a full show with an ending, loads of jokes and it had a point and but it wasn't like, this is my story, it was just silly and there's a bit with clams in it, like it's just mad but I had like the madness in it, but I

was like really excited and I was really like, you know what, this is actually quite me. Like I feel like quite proud to and then it didn't do anything. No one, no industry came to see it at all. Couldn't even get like a casting director and it was an absolute nightmare. I loved it and then did a soho and loved that. Couldn't get anyone into review.

It couldn't get, it was so, and I felt like I'm shouting into this abyss. I spent 12 grand on like publicity and all of the stuff. Nothing. And then I was like, I'm not doing this again. Like I don't want to do this. This is not working. I didn't get any jobs from it or anything. Also, people still don't seem to know that I'm a comedian.

I'm like out there being like, oh, please, look at my joke. So I thought, I'm going to have to do online. And it kind of was a bit of that. It was a bit like, I'm going to have to do it online. And I think when you're like 21 and you're like, you just bleed TikTok, it's fine. But at that point I was 30 and I'm like, I feel weird learning all the, I don't know how to edit. I don't know. I'm more of a writer.

So I could do tweets and a tweet will go viral because I've written it. but I don't know how to do a, I don't know how to do it, basically. So then I, we did like, me and my friend Lola, who's just brilliant, I wrote some sketches. She came around, we filmed them. I spent like seven days editing them. So I was so slow and bad. And then they did nothing.

And then I was like, no, I'm going to commit to this. I'm going to do at least two every month in the year of 2020. And then obviously the pandemic happened. It was like, well, I've got literally nothing else to do. So then, and we kept going. And we kept going, kept going. And then in November it did one, one just did in just, insane. They got like six million views

and then from then on, everything just started to get more and I started to feel like, oh, I would go and do like a, you know, a social media out of it for Farrow and Ball, say. And the director would be like, oh, I know you from the sketch. I've seen your sketch. And I'd be like, oh, great. And that's never

happened to me in comedy, ever. Like, in journalism, when I was a journalist, I worked really hard and then stuff would happen and I'd get good jobs. And in comedy, I felt like, I worked really hard, and I would actually be worse off than I was when I started. I don't understand what's going on. And so I think, and there's also, there's a model that is not unhelpful, I think, in Edinburgh, which it's very helpful for a select group of people where it's like the newcomer thing is huge.

And we know basically the newcomers who are going to get the newcomers because you can't move for them. And it's great and they're good and they're exciting. But then, and the next year it's like, then it's the next newcomer. He's like, well, what about them newcomers that you just had? Like, do you want to have a look at them again? No, fine. and it seems to be the Edinburgh model

seems to be quite narrow and it's not as free and experimental as I think I thought it would be I thought I'd go and do this fun silly show and it didn't really matter if it didn't do anything because I just, it was fun

but then it actually did matter and it meant that you know I wasn't moving anywhere and I wasn't doing anything so yeah the sketches have really helped because I think they've meant that they've kept me in people's minds a bit or in your case

they've shown me to your mind I just want to be shown to people's minds a bit but then it's about trying to figure out what I want to do and I think it's just I just want to do jokes I just love jokes and stupid jokes and I get so much joy from thinking of something completely mad and just having a good time. I'm still going to do live stuff

and I'm going to do Edinburgh again I think but I think it's going to be, I feel like it's a completely different thing now because I don't, I'm not going there being like I need this like I need this like I need you to, I need chortle to come and see it. It doesn't really matter. I'm going to do it so that I can do a fun show and I think I might be able to get, I might be able to get people to come and see it a bit more than I could before because of the sketches, hopefully. And if not, I'll have a breakdown again, mate. That's fine. Even just the name hot content for me feels like, oh, you've found what it is,

you do. You've found your voice as a person, because you are, pretty internet-y in the sense of even the stuff that you're doing, like some of your solo stuff on Twitter that I've seen over the last year or so, is stuff like visiting any website or dealing with your printer. It's like you're kind of, it's almost like it's in step with the fact you used to be a journalist. I guess the audience is young-ish professionals who are kind of like, oh yeah, like that, which one was it that went mad? Was it trying to get paid as a freelancer?

Actually, that was the first one that did well, yeah. And then the one that went completely mad was the one that was the capture thing where I'm trying to... Oh, the robot. Prove you're not a robot. Yeah, if you're a robot, yeah. And there's a man in the Thames. Totally. So both of those trying to get paid as a freelancer, that is your angle, right?

That's your voice, I guess. Like, because you are... You're previously a journalist. You work in media. You're speaking to freelancers who work in media who are getting pissed off about not getting paid. You're specific to them. the specificity makes it relatable to any, you know, anybody can understand what a pain in the ass that would be, even if they're not a freelancer. So, so by kind of tunneling in and going,

oh, what I am is a contemporary young woman who struggles with the internet and trying to get shit done, that speaks to your actual lived experience and also is the voice through which, do you see what I mean? Like, you call it, you call something hot content. I can look back at that now and go. And again, it's an assumption is like, oh, that's when Stevie worked who she was. No, it's a good assumption because it kind of was because it, even though it's, the show is basically me being like, I'm really great with social media. Here's how you can be great too.

And I'm clearly not. And I'm clearly very ill. Sure, sure, sure. But in order to do those jokes, you need to riff on things that you, Stevie, actually understand. Have done because I used to work in social media. He used to work in branding and used to work on all that sort of stuff. And it's all about just how messed up everything is.

But it's very light touch and just very, very, very. silly um but the yeah that is kind that's true and you don't realize it when it's happening but that was the problem like i want i wanted to do jokes but i didn't know what to joke about so just just joked about everything and then you're like well then people are like well who are you like i don't quite and i can't i'm enjoying the fact that you've just i don't know thrown a thrown some sand over yourself that's great but like you know what when it drills down to it what's this show about and it wasn't really about anything and so then then it was like well no i do just naturally wanted to talk about social media and then naturally wanted to do sketches about

that sort of thing. And I think that is true. It's a terrifying thing. If you're a contemporary young woman who's got a pulse on the, got a pulse on the internet, then it's quite scary because you're like, yeah, now I'm 33. Like, I've got to go, I don't really like TikTok. So now I've got to like force myself into TikTok because it's like, that's your thing, Steve. You're a contemporary woman. So I've got to. I'm always worried. I'm always like, oh, maybe that's not my thing. But I think it sort of is. I think as I get older, it will just be about, well, now I'm older and it's even more confusing. I hate it more. So I think, yeah. And that's why the podcast I did with Gina might delete later, my sister.

My thing was that I hate social media and she loves it. And that was, that worked because it was like, yeah, I hate it. But I'm so addicted to. And I think that's something that the one thing we can all relate to, really. and the kind of people that, even the older people that maybe aren't really on social media, I try and make everything so that I explain it so that you can see the absurdity of, even if you're not on Instagram or you're not on TikTok, because I think that's very important that you don't alienate people, because I'm not 20 and there's not 20-year-olds coming to see my show. Like, I mean, there are, but like it's sort of millennial, very squarely millennial business.

Yeah, that's interesting that there are, because I think you also occupy, because you're struggling with it, it's relatable to much younger people. as well. Yes, and the podcast that Do Nobody Panic, it has got a much younger audience because it's basically like we're like some of your oldest sisters trying to help you do things. So we get a lot of graduates and a lot of people who are at uni and a lot of people, we had one who one girl who was like 11 being like, can you do an episode about how to go to a school disc? Oh my God. So we did and it was the best. That's great. It was so cute. It was so great. And so but it's, but then we have like older older people as well that kind of listen and just

sort of, the more like emotional kind of confidence ones that helps them and stuff. But so yeah, but then when I started doing comedy, I'd literally go out and they'd be like, God, Stevie, you've sold out this, this work in progress preview. And the other comedian who'd be on, like, how, what? And then you'd look out and it was all 22-year-old girls who were all like, well, is she going to talk about the adult thing she's done this week? You're like, no, I'm going to come out, I'm going to throw sand on my face, I'm going to scream at you, and I'm going to talk about my asshole.

That's what I'm going to do. And I'm really sorry. And they would be completely baffled. And silent. So it was a sort of blood sort of that. Yeah, that's a funny one, isn't it? Because, so in terms of, like, you finding a way to do the goofy stuff that you want to do, like throwing sand and what have you, I mean, if you look back at the kind of massive dance sketches,

I feel like you're the goofy one more than the others. Yes, I would always be like, guys, come on, let's throw things on ourselves. They'd be like, it's not really relevant here, Steve. Fair enough. Like, I'd be buying ravens being like, and then the ravens come out. It's like, well, Stevey doesn't work. Like, yeah, okay, fair enough actually. No, it doesn't.

That's interesting. That's interesting because I suppose I saw Massive Dad lives years ago, and I remember, I suppose I enjoyed it, but I suppose I had that feeling when you see a bunch of people who are clearly actors as well. Like there is a sort of uneasiness as a comic where you're like, oh, are you just doing it? And I'm not levelling this at you, but this is the sphere I'm talking about,

is when you go, oh, how much are you concerned? permitting to stand up and how much is it that you want to put it on your CV and use it to get acting jobs. Neither of which are banned things in and of themselves. But I do wonder whether because you are all pretty and I know you're not all tall, but you seem to be tall. Like you're all. Liz is small, but me and Tess are tall. I don't know if I, I don't know if I can include this really because it's weird saying to you, you are pretty. But do you what I mean?

Like you are. successful and sophisticated. And like most sketch groups, not all, but most sketch groups are kind of like a disaster. If I think of the sketch groups I'm most familiar with, they're sort of, I suppose there was a thing whereby, I guess, you guys and the pin, just to take gender out of it, they were very like, we're smart and our audience, we're chinos. You know what I mean? And like idiots of ants, I guess there was sort of a kind of, almost like a kind of, almost like a kind of. kind of, the word elite isn't quite right, but there are people where you go, this is a bunch of kind of hobo, poetic, scruffy comics doing a thing. And then you sort of feel like, oh,

successful, well-to-do, well-dressed people with stylists have muscled in. Do you see what I mean? Well, yes, and I honestly think that hamper does, and what was a shame was that that wasn't the vibe. So like none of us were actors. We were all just like, des, we all loved comedy. And then when we would do a gig, it would be like, it would be very much, we were really nerdy in the sense that we would turn up to your gig

and we would be word perfect and we would require heavy tech. We'd bring our own tech because we were so anxious that it would go wrong. And we didn't have the confidence to be able to, for example, we did Pappy's gig really early on. and I didn't know them very well

and I was just we were all just completely blown away by them because we're just like that's what we want to be we're all card we've got obsessed with Cardinal Burns because we did Cardinal Burns gig and they came in from the back sort of a bit late still with their coats on for their set and just took their coats off and then went on stage and did the set and we just so we like taking your coat off was like became this thing because it was like we just want to be able to take our coats off

but we we would spend like five days beforehand learn lining learn lining and learn lining line lining line learning and we had this thing where you can't bring your script on stage so there's one like work in progress we did where I didn't know my I had a monologue I didn't know it and I and I was like I need to bring my script on they were like no but we're like no we can't because that's unprofessional then I had to just pretend I knew what I was doing and then and then I remember doing my solo show and being like I can just go on stage in a preview just with a script people like it it shows the it means that you're approachable and it means that when people when an audience

are looking at someone on stage and I think about this all the time like they need to like you. They might not like you but they want they need to like to not like you. You can't just come on and be essentially as well. We didn't realize we were attractive. We, because we were just like, 25. We were like, we're gross. We just want to do comedy. We're bad because we were anxious. And then it came across and it's very interesting to hear you say that because I think it did. It came across like, hello, we've arrived. And it's like, no, we had all this big stuff because we wanted to fit in and we wanted people to laugh. But then the moment we stopped doing Mazadaddon, I did my solo show, I realized how constrained we were by being like, we had to be

perfect. Our work in progress had to be perfect. And our previews had to be on point. And if every joke didn't work, they were gone. And every joke had to work. And every performance was exactly the same. There was no jumping out. And I remember my agent, who wasn't my agent at the time, came to see my first show and he and someone I had this joke where um at the end of the show all of the set collapsed and but unfortunately the room I was in meant that the door to the if an audience member wanted to go to the toilet set and they came back in the set would just collapse on them so there was um a woman walked out and the the the the the the the doesn't go to the toilet and then the set collapsed but then she started to walk back in and I had to

like dive to save her and I was laughing so much and and I had to chat to her for a bit and mentioned about time and julian was like that's why i want to sign you because the bits in between you're like your show was really great but he's like it feels like you were quite you you were scripted you were doing it at us you weren't doing it with us and when you were when you chatted to us it was so fun and i was like and so then with my second show it's still scripted but it's like when stuff goes wrong and i'm more relaxed basically whereas with massive dad you could not do like it's not that there's an overlord telling us it couldn't but We just couldn't do it.

And I feel sad for us when I look back, because I'm like, there were other sketch groups that have done really well. And we didn't really do very well in the end. We didn't really get anywhere. And I think it's because people didn't, people were a bit like, well, who are you? You're all right, you're very, you think you're very full of yourself.

And we weren't. We were just completely just smashing around, not knowing what we were doing and just very terrified. That is such a good answer. And with all apologies for my dubious question and the kind of potential, potentially sort of sexist implications of it being about that. It's not sexist. It's not sexist because it's real and that's what happens.

Like someone, our director for our second show said, and I used it as a joke in my second solo show and he came up afterwards and was like, was that me, you said that. I'm sorry. And I was like, no, it was great. I've just turned it into you being a sexist. But he said, because we used to wear full makeup and we did this massive lazy girls show, which was massive dad, lazy Susan and birthday girls.

And we were always just like, oh, lazy Susan, birthday girls is a. so loose and cool. And then like Celeste and Lesa Susan we had this joke when Lazy Susan came on being like basically a massive dad of models and it was like, Jesus, Christ, no. We're like, trying to make you. But we had full makeup on it and we looked like we'd been styled.

And our director was like, you'd probably need to wear less makeup. And we were like, fuck off. And then we continued to. And then the moment I just relaxed and stopped wearing so much makeup on stage, I felt more like myself. So it was less about like, you can't wear lipstick to be funny. It was more just like, chill out. And then the audience will see you and not this woman who's just come on with contouring.

Oh, that's such a good answer. Thank you. I'm really glad we kind of got into that. Because I think those words, rather than attractiveness, I think things like unapproachable. You said unapproachable or perfect or there was another one as well. But it's kind of that sphere. And I think it is, it was a bit affronting. It was a bit like, oh, you've accidentally.

it seems assumed high status to the audience and we're like well sure, all right, but just be funny. But then the funny thing is looking at the sketches and it's really interesting you say that because look at the massive dance sketches, the production values are insane. They look like clips

from a professional TV show that was shot yesterday. Well, we tried to get a show and we got greenlit and then the person left the classic story and then we didn't get the show. and that was our shot at getting a sketch show basically so we wanted to make it look like

these people should have had a sketch show for years and I mean it didn't work so but it felt but you know it's nice it's nice to have weirdly it's nice to have them because I can look back and be like oh those sketches that we did live look so great and like they've made them look this production movie monkey kingdom made them look so great and it's

and I feel sad sometimes when I think think about Matt as a dad. I don't know how the girls feel about it, but like, I think they're kind of fine, but I don't know, actually. We haven't really talked about it. But I feel sad because I just feel like we had a lot of potential and I loved writing with them and we wrote so many good jokes. And we all fitted together because like, I like really silly stuff and I like writing jokes. Liz is so good at structure and I'm so bad at structure. And Tessa is such a great performer and would add these like little weird quirky things in that you would never think of because their brain works in a completely different ways to us. And then together we would then

be too anxious and then come across quite affronting. But the vibe behind the scenes, it was just so nice and it was so like, I felt like we were good and that if we'd have just relaxed, it would have worked. But, you know, you can't help that. And we're all doing our own thing. And I'm really happy to be doing solo stuff. Like, I do actually really enjoy it, even though I, the anxieties, like everybody, I'm sure, but I just feel like I'm shit all the time and it's very difficult to come off stage and be like,

normally there's two other people that are going, no, actually that thing you did was actually really all right or the way you saved that line. But when I just hated doing the solo shows at Edinburgh because I've come off

and I'd be like, but there's no one to talk to. And so I've just go and eat noodles on my own. It'd be like, because I didn't really have any like comedy comedian mates. So I'm just like,

oh, just go home. So pathetic. Whereas now I've now lent in a little bit and I do have comedy friends now so I can like go and chat to people about comedy, which is nice. Because I was transitioning, I was a journalist.

I had loads of journalists mates who were like, What's Edinburgh? And I didn't really have any comedy friends because we were in a sketch group and we were very, like, insular. And then now you just meet people and now it feels a little bit nicer. Do you think that anxiety,

to what extent does that anxiety steer your decisions over the whole of your career? I think it's my decisions are only steered by anxiety, I think. It's the anxiety of not... So if I see... if I know I should do something, but I'm terrified of it. It's like, well, I've got to do it.

I have to do it. And I won't be able to stop thinking about it until I've done it. And a lot of people around me, my partner, and he's also a comedian. But he's very like, you know, he's been doing it for a long time and is very, he's so zen about it. And I'm not zen.

So it's very helpful having someone who's completely just like, it's fine. It is so fine. And then you go, no, it's not. And there's like, yeah. And also he's a bit older. And so he recognizes, where I am, which is basically just do as, I'm just so frightened I'll do the wrong thing or I won't do

enough. So then it comes off like, I'm doing literally everything. And then, and then it makes it, and then social media makes it look like it's all going well and great. But isn't, it's just like, I know that social media is like a CV in a portfolio and people look at it. And you can't just be like, I think a lot of comedians do that thing well, where they'll be like, oh, this gig was shit or like, this podcast I've set up hasn't done very well or whatever I think that's fair enough but I feel like I can't

I don't want to do that because people an industry member might look at that and go oh she's she does shit gigs so I make everything look really great which then makes people go that she's doing great and it's not the case and I think I want to just do I'm so frightened that I won't

I won't do what I won't be a success that I just do I end up doing too many things like one of them will work come on one of them will work and then and then it's I sort of you know, get burnout quite, I get burnout quite regularly. You have to put so much more of yourself into just the most casual thing, like Twitch, for example. I don't really do Twitch anymore because it was like more of a lockdown thing,

but it took so much effort to do a good Twitch show that looked like you haven't put any effort in. And that's the same with everything, isn't it? So people kind of go, oh, she's just sort of, you know, just doing all this stuff. I guess she just loves stuff. It's like, no, no, she doesn't. She would like one thing to do quite well. Everyone wants to do well, don't they? And so if you're not doing well, so for example, after my second show, I felt really bereft because I was just like, what more do I need to do to be a good comedian, please? And the answer is obviously the good comedian comes from within, not outside. Well, I think... Well, I think...

Specifically to that, I think that there is something about longevity. And it's really, like, obviously you were there, you had a presence at Edinburgh as a reviewer. And then you had a presence at Edinburgh as part of a sketch group, but not one that then went on to become explosive. And then you had the kind of glittering solo career. And then you went up as a solo and you did two hours. And that's only that, like, if you just take that solo, you as you, the performer, I suppose it is so easy to get caught up in the dazzle of the awards and everything else and go, you can't expect to be, like for someone to be, I don't mean you personally, but. one can't expect to get picked up and hurled into, you know, carried shoulder high by the industry off the back of two shows.

And only now, that is, and you alluded to it before, that is how it seems to work. Because for a fated few that you can normally tell in advance, you can go, oh, well, these are the, these are the 15 or so, 12 to 15, it'll be six of them or eight of them or what have you. And it always is. Yes. Plus one or two rank outsiders just to keep things fresh. As if the Edinburgh Comedy Awards are anything other than just a purpose. person who set up some awards and they lasted and got funding. They don't represent

Edinburgh. They don't represent anything. They're just a kind of shared illusion that we all participate in. Just like the Oscars, I should say. Just someone, Johnny Oscar set up the Oscars. I don't know the, I've not done in the reading. But do you know, any award is simply set up to benefit the person who runs the awards, ultimately, yes, to celebrate culture, but mainly to employ the person who started them. Should we take that out? God damn it, no. I'm past caring. But what it does, rightly or wrongly, and they're useful in lots of ways, but they do reflect us back to ourselves and make us think that it is reasonable to go out to Edinburgh, spend 12 grand.

You said on PR, I'm sure you meant PR and all production costs rather than just one incredible PR stuff. It wasn't just, yeah, a plane that flew over with a name on it. It makes it seem reasonable to suppose, well, because that is apparently possible, because we've seen it happen to one or two people, oh, that's how it should work and A, no it doesn't And B, what the hell does should mean in that sentence anyway? I think the problem with a lot of things

Is with this industry and with many industries Is you don't get a quantifiable, Quantitive, here's your stamp, you've actually done very well here And so the awards gives you that illusion That's, you know, we're all wanting to please Our teachers and our parents And that's like, come on, give me the stamp.

Give me that I did very well badge, please. and there's not many of them and so the awards represents that so I can say I don't care about because I don't but then when you get there and you see the people who have got the stamp you like I'd love a stamp would be nice to have a stamp wouldn't it but then you know

that's the kind of I think if you have like a nine to five job you get things like appraisals and you get like promotion and you get that doesn't really work in this industry you can get a job but you can be like oh but the job was shit or behind the scenes it was a bit of a nightmare or I didn't really get paid on time or at all or whatever

and it's so hard. You want to constantly be redrawing these boundaries as to what success means, while at the same time a voice in the back of your head is going like, but success comes from within. You're like, shut off. No, it doesn't. And I also really don't like how driven, how like every stand-up, every comedian I'm friends with and talk to,

we all have the same conversations. We all don't feel like we're successful enough. Or we feel like the success we've got is not the success we want. So I've got friends who are like in loads of stuff, but they're like, I'm typecast. I'm always this person. You're like, cool, I'd like to be that typecast, please. Give me a chance of being typecast.

Or I just, I have loads of money, but it's from adverts. And I'm amazing adverts. You're like, great. Again, if you don't have that, that's really exciting for somebody who doesn't. So everyone is looking at, so I'm no different. And it's just, yeah, I'm aware that all I've talked about is like, and just want to be really successful. And it's gross to say that.

No, it isn't. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. You haven't overemphasize or prioritized that in the things you've said. and it is totally... It's totally understandable. So it is one of those things where I do... As someone who is, I guess, around 10 years older than you,

I do recognise it. And in a deeply patronising way, I'm like, oh man, I still sometimes feel like that. You have... It is inside of you and you do... Like, the good comedian isn't necessarily inside of you, but the rubber stamp is, and it's the only rubber stamp you're ever going to get.

So part of the, I guess, what's becoming increasingly apparent is part of the remit of this podcast in a way I didn't plan, was to re-broadcast that idea that you are good enough and everyone listening is good enough and we can't all be the best in... We can't all be Picasso, but we can all enjoy the journey and it doesn't mean that you're a loser to think that

even though it sounds like the sort of thing a loser would think. Should I mean both of those things... Absolutely. Both of those things have to coexist. Like the idea of you having had a very successful career in which you took risks, created stuff, developed and learned, and yet at the same time you aren't currently playing aren't

playing arenas or whatever it is you want or starring in your own vehicle or what have you both of those things have to coexist because they will coexist for the rest of your career.

Yeah, and also Picasso was probably very unhappy this is the thing as well we can only hope apparently he was a terrible man. Terrible man! So yeah, and that's you know you don't want to go like

oh look people are really successful they're also having a shit time but you don't want anyone to have a shit time but it does sort of prove that if you'd get a bit of success that doesn't, you know, it doesn't, even, and it's not the same thing, but like when one of the sketches did, like, ridiculous, two of the sketches, we've got like millions,

it was like, oh, wow, it's happening. Oh, my God. And then it was like, nothing happened. I just got loads of penis pictures in the year. Oh, no. And I got loads of Twitter followers. And then, and then now it's like, oh, cool. So Stevie's got loads of, like, I've got, like, I went from like 10,000, like, 65,000.

It's like, great. This will do something. but what it means is it's like internationally the sketch did very well so it got just basically my audience is probably on average a 47 year old man from Spain which is not you can't really harness that in terms of a live show in London so it's never what it looks like and it never and even that made me see like okay so after then when a sketch didn't do well I wasn't as upset because it was like what doesn't matter because when it does do well doesn't matter then either it's just nice so you kind of have to and hopefully that will happen you know in general

with other things where you go okay well this is quite nice but it doesn't matter if I don't get that like it's the journey is now and it's just it's the journey it's not the end point but I just need to figure out how to make Edinburgh fun in the journey

because I fucking hate it but I want to love it so much because I used to love it so much when I wasn't doing solo stuff but that'll be 2020 will be me trying to love Edinburgh in the way that I know it deserves to be off

great show title yes actually yeah yeah let's talk about the, or you pick one, either the most viral one or your favourite, and let's talk about how it was created, because you end up with such an incredible kind of, the edit is such a sort of feathering of like, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, the punchlines are preposterously densely packed together and really imaginative.

And my guess, again, my assumption is some of them are written, and some of them you just leave the camera on and do loads of stuff and then work on it later, or what? No, I never do that. So I basically, yeah, no, never. So basically what they tend to follow the same kind of format in terms of what we do. There was, in the first few we did, we, Lola came around and we basically, yeah, I listed shit loads of jokes. And then we do all them and then Lola's a really good improviser. So she would be like, oh, well, maybe this.

And then, you know, I don't know. I don't know what the ratio is, but then something would go into. And it would be like five hours worth of material and then it would go down to like a minute. And that was mad. When you say five hours, do you mean five hours? I literally mean five hours, yes. I mean like one till five. And then it would be like, oh, God.

And then, because I'm very too, and sometimes it doesn't. So with Massif Dad, it was always a sort of a joke, really, that just before we'd do a show, I'd be like, I think we'll have to cut this and this and this and this. And they'd be like, you stop cutting things. Because I just would like to, I just wanted to edit and edit and edit until everything was gold. Like I don't want anything in there. same with Eddimer shows. I don't really have anything. Maybe some jokes won't work one night,

but I don't have anything in there that hasn't worked so much that I think every work comedian is the same. But like, I'm so rigorous about it. And I'm so aware of any airtime or stage time where there's not a joke happening to the extent where probably to my, I've had to force it. So it's like, no, they do need to hear a story, Steve. You can't consistently just be doing jokes. But I don't think you can, but fine. And so what has? happens now and what then started to happen was basically I would, me and Lola would come up with something so someone would be like, I don't know, isn't it? Like, Hermes would fuck up my parcel again and I'd be like, right, I'm going to do a thing

about this. And so I write, I write it, I'd write every single thing I could possibly think of to do with that, send it to Lola. Lola would add some stuff and then come back and then I would edit the script down and do another write and another write and maybe like, so maybe do like three or four goes of it until to me it feels like it's going somewhere it's not just an array of joke the weakest ones are where it's literally just joke

like there needs to be some sort of thing I think then... What do you mean by some sort of thing? Sorry yeah good point actually and you know a thing and some sort of either an end joke that I feel like is worthy of you've watched this thing for two minutes whether that is just me screaming or whether that's me falling over or whether that's like a callback or something

it just feels like the best ones have weirdly a tiny narrative in like one minute and it goes somewhere. What's the one with the one? There's one where you kind of get up and scream and it cuts halfway through that. And I remember there was a YouTube comic going, that moment alone is the best thing in your, yeah, that's the one. Yeah, Adam's spying on me behind with the pair of binoculars and I see it.

Yes, there has to be something that I feel like, if there's not a narrative arc in it, it has to be, it has to build in manic intensity. So it builds and by the end I'm screaming or shouting or it's gone, it's gone somewhere and that's always the hardest bit always of course um because because why to find a reason for that just to find a reason for that yeah and also it's i find it so much easier just to write jokes and then when you have to kind of like mold it into a structure it suddenly becomes like it's the hardest thing about sketch is how do you finish the sketch and that's always been

the case with all everything it's like yeah this is fun but it's just going on like we've got to have a thing and then it goes and then because it's so satisfying when you watch a sketch and it and and or anything, a film, a TV series and you know the moment that that TV series is sort of just meandering and it's lost and it doesn't actually know where it's going and then I just check out and I have to stop. It's so brilliant when you know it knows where it's going.

I love that stuff. In books as well and everything. If anyone ever says to me you'd love this movie, actually the end's not great. I'm like, I'm never going to watch it. I'm out, yeah, I'm out. There's nothing worse than finishing a book and the ending shit. I hate that.

And also, it's so hard to find a satisfying ending So I know, even just with a one-minute sketch, it's really hard. So that's always the bit that is the sticking point. Sometimes it just comes really easily. You're like, oh, that's where that has to go in that direction. Or like, like, with the one that did, the first one that did very well, I got, you know, six million views or whatever, it's basically like the robot capture thing.

And at the end, it turns out there's like a man holding up a sign for the numbers that you're trying to type in. And I've got to chase him. And I chase him, and then I come back. And then it turns out there was actually another man. And we've had no idea who that man was. and for some reason that just was very I just knew that that was going to be the thing very very quickly others I'd take ages and then we set up a zoom and then we do everything that's scripted

and then we'll do alternatives of everything so if there's so in case there's a funnier thing that comes up but we never do like hey let's just hang out and then we'll just capture the gold because I just don't have time for that shit and I think as well there's been quite a I think when it's done well it's the most brilliant thing to watch but I think when it's done I don't have the confidence I'd be able to do that well enough that it doesn't just then become, oh, what I'm trying to say? I think I see quite a lot of stuff where I'll be like, very lovely, but where are your jokes, mate? Like, where's your jokes?

This is just a lovely, you're just saying some stuff. And I prefer things when there's jokes. I don't mean like, hey, I was walking down the really the other day, knock, knock or whatever, I just mean like, there's been some thought put in, there's a visual gag, there's something that is we can cling on who was like, ha ha, that was the funny laugh bit, not just like you're doing a fun accent

and it is quite fun. I think he's got its place, but I'm not good at accents and I can't do that stuff. So I, that's my strength. So yes, so then we go through it and then basically then I edit it and the edit either is really easy and quick

because all of the jokes on paperwork or it's a fucking nightmare because like with the website one, what I'd written did not work. So when I edited it all, looked at it and was like, that's not funny. and then I had to make another sketch out of the edit bit,

but I hadn't really filmed anything else. So that was a nut, and cut down and cut down, and then change it round and then refilm something. I think I spill water on myself. I filmed that about 10 million times. The office was full of water, tortoise, sodden, like, and, and then, and but then weirdly I always would think, oh, if it took so long to do that,

that means that the sketch is not going to turn out very good, because that means it's taken too. much. It's overwrought. It's overdone. Yeah, overdone and overwrought. But that's not the case. It did really well. And you're like, oh, right, okay. So actually... Oh, you just have to work really hard for ages. That's shit.

Very hard. Yeah. And I have a lot of friends who are actors who have kind of been like, you know, oh, how do you do you do just chat and you just, or they've done stuff and they've been like, well, my stuff isn't work. You know, because it takes so much more effort than I think it looks like it takes, maybe. I don't know. Everything sort of does. But, and it's been nice because people do donate. and I was really uncomfortable with putting a coffee link underneath it and my sister who's very good at that stuff

was like you absolutely have to how long did that take you and it was like three days and they were like obviously put and people sort of messaging me going where can I donate I really like this sketch it made me laugh so if people if the people want it then fine that makes me feel a bit better but like now I'm a bit more comfortable with that

because it is like it does take time and it does take thought and it is work and also you just now we're in this world where it's like TikTok and stuff you can just throw something out and then everyone kind of copies it and that's the whole point and it doesn't matter who did it first and it's kind of democratising comedy

but then it's completely obliterating comedy at the same time because it's like well no one's getting paid and no one actually and that's the point now that no one's getting paid it doesn't really matter who did it

who wrote it and so people have been there's an Italian guy that did my sketch word for word but on TikTok and then that's happened quite a few times

and I basically have got everyone to take it down and I've been like following them and been like, can you, can you not? But then their responses are like, but that's, I've just stitched it or whatever the TikTok term is. Like I've just, that's what you do. You're like, oh, God, it is, isn't it? And I don't, I don't like that. So that's, that's, yeah, that's been a kind of a strange part of it, which you haven't

asked me about, but I've just brought in that. No, but that's fascinating. I didn't know about that at all. That is a really like, oh, great. Fuckers all ruin anything, won't they? Yes. You finally find a thing, which is your means of production, entirely your very, is entirely your work and now you're vulnerable to you haven't spent 12 ground on something that

didn't explode in the way you wanted but what you have done is created a thing that's good enough to steal and there's absolutely no redress yes yeah and it's actually encouraged to steal because that's what because tictock is you know you put you someone nick nicks an audio of something and you know re-does it and that's it's like a meme like that's basically the whole point of ticot so this meme culture sort of i hope it doesn't but i can't see i can see i really can see it being a massive problem in terms, not live comedy, but in terms of the online thing. Because it's like, well, there's no need to do it. I'm just imagining that advert, you wouldn't steal a premise.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, right. I'm just to stroke our chins for a bit on that. I'm really fascinated with where that is going. And the fact that like memes, I think are the pub jokes of today, right? This is my pet theory because pub jokes are so perfect because they're sort of the kind of The seas of retelling over and over again, turn them into these perfect shiny pebbles that you go,

there we go, that's perfect now, because it's been done by everyone. And I feel the same about memes, when someone gets precisely the right screen grab of Dineris and Thor, both doing that kind of, eh, face, do I mean, and uses that to go, my wife and I telling each other we're tired,

and you just go, there we go, that is perfect. It's been stolen and shaped and whatever the word is, into the perfect version of itself. But what the hell does that mean for, ownership. What does it mean? Where is it going? What do you, like when you say, I think we're on the same page about that being kind of excellent and terrifying. It's almost like, oh, TikTok isn't

just there to kind of steal and manipulate everyone's data. It's also been designed to destroy comedy. I have an audience question for you, a listener question. This is from Ed Jolly Boat. Do you know, lovely Ed from Jolly Boat? No, I don't. They're an incredible pirate dub. I've not I had them on the show. I'll have them on the show. Here's what they do. They do just a tangent here, a side note to Jolly Boat. They do songs where they've changed the words, and the theme is always pirates.

And it absolutely shouldn't work on paper, and it absolutely destroys every time, and they've got an incredible fan base in a brilliant online community. Like, it just doesn't make any sense. That is a niche. I love that. But they are so warm and funny, and it just shouldn't work, and it just tickles my brain that it's brilliant. Anyway, Ed from Jolly Boat says,

who do you work with and why? In general What in terms of writing Sorry, it's such a simple question It's too simple isn't it But yeah So maybe in terms of writing or making stuff with I mean you've talked about some of the people

That you have worked with But maybe open up just as an answer Talk about the qualities of the people That you think Kind of complement your qualities Or what do you look for in a collaborator That sort of thing Yes, well they have

So I Yes, did collaborate with Liz and Tessa for a long time and then once you've been in a sketch group, it feels weird when you work with someone else. Because you're just like, but hang on, they're not. You're not, Tessa. And it's actually quite nice because you, so I work with Lola quite a lot,

and I'm working with Lola at the moment. And I also work with, I'm working with my friend, so his name's Kyle Smith Bino, and he's like a comedy actor, brilliant guy. I always really, it sounds silly, but like, I want to say like, it's the style of the comedy and the thing. But also it's so much about what they're like as people as well,

like because it's so hard to collaborate. I naturally love doing it, but lots of people don't. And lots of people really struggle. And it's really hard to find somebody that is completely your wavelength. And it tends to be that they are, you've got to be able to take criticism and give criticism and not throw a penny about it.

I think that's like crucial. and when you find someone like that you literally just can't ever let them go. Obviously it'll be funny but like I never worked with Lola before in a comedy sense. She's just, she's, I've seen her improvise

she's brilliant and then we like, we just laugh so much when I'm having a drink and you're like, that's actually enough and then when we started to do the sketches when she thought something isn't funny

she feels completely and I think it's so important to be able to go I don't think that's funny and for me to be able to go okay cool, yeah, I'll take that and that's what we did

with massive dad very well, which I think when I've worked with other people and had to be like, I'm going to have to not. It's because you get like a monologue around why they think that joke may not quite work in this. And it's not that the joke isn't funny. It's just that, and you know, just say it's not funny.

At this stage, we just need to say it's not funny. We're all adults here. And what they're saying is not, you're not funny, and we should all be able to know the difference. And also, separately to that, I work with people who I work with people and it sounds mad

but in terms of when you're a creative person and you're not very you're all over the place you need people who are incredibly fucking on it and so like Plosif produced my podcast

but also I would I would let Ben Williams and Namy Parnell produce my life like they are so efficient and I'm not efficient I think you've got to be able

to see what is you're deficient in and then go I just need to fill that with somebody else please like my tech, Jake is just so good and I'm and he's so calm and I'm not good and I'm not calm and I need people around me who are calm efficient and just get their head down and do it and aren't like oh I'm I was pissed last night and like I'm or like should we like I don't I don't I don't need to go to the pub with you like although I would go to go to the pub with literally any of

those people that I just mentioned and have done but I don't need to when it's in terms of getting a show together, not writing together, getting a show or making something be commercially successful, you actually just need people who are very good rather than like your mate. And when I've worked with mates, it's like, yeah. It's like, ah, not worked, not working. Anyway, yeah. Great answer. Thank you. What is the sketch that you most wish you had written of someone else's? And, and simultaneously, what is the short Twitter-type video of someone else's of which you are most jealous that you didn't make it? Oh, that's a really good question.

Is there, oh, so there's a big train sketch where, and I'm trying to remember, I mean, there's so many of theirs that I wish I'd written. Incredible. There's one where the, I think it's, um, Peg comes in, and it's basically like, an, like, it's just a very boring work announcement, but they've mapped onto it, and everyone's stop masturbating. I know that one. Yeah.

And I find that. And then there's the other guy who's, oh no, no, no, the one where he, there's the guy there's a runner and it's just the guy just can't open doors. He just does no way to open doors. And so there'll be like a wonderful sketch where you don't know where it's going. It's just like a really serious thing. And then he'll leave and then you just can't get out of the door. And it's like, that is like my bag.

Like I love that shit. And I, whenever I've been trying to like write sketches for shows and things, like, it's always like, I just wish that they hadn't done that. I can pitch that because that's just so simple and it's so clearly funny and I like that very simple, very clearly funny

that you can just keep doing and it's just always funny whatever situation you put him in Twitter stuff there's not one particular one that I'm like oh I wish I'd done that because I feel like

I don't know but pretty much there are people that I'm like God everything that person does I fucking like Alice de Beckett King like everything he does

the production value is so intense and impressive and it's the opposite of what we've been talking about how you've got to like, look, you've just got to make yourself look shit and look like you haven't put any F in and that'll make it funny. And then he completely defies that rule because... Because he's not being himself in his videos. He's world-building and he builds the world-building.

And I love his stuff because I could never do it and I couldn't even attempt to. and so there's no comparison. It's just like, fuck me, that's good. And it's so funny. And he's so creative with the... And also, I find everything he tweets funny as well. So I think rather than a particular sketch,

I just want to be him. Is that? Yeah, that's allowed. That's the answer. Yeah, okay, cool. I'm doing a gig with him next week, and I'm terrified. So I'm just like, I love you.

It's really lame. I'm so, it is so exciting to see Alice to kind of get the recognition he deserves and to sort of, you know, this is me in evuncular mode now where I get to be professorial and go, oh, I remember gigging with him back in the day when he was a whippersnapper,

and then you go, oh, God, now I'm just addicted to everything you come up with. His solo shows, his live shows are just brilliant. The imagination. I've never heard of him since. Because I'm not very plugged into the industry, so that's not on him, that's on me. But, like, since these sketches, now,

obviously I'm going to go and see all of his shows, like, of course. But I feel annoyed that I haven't seen them before now. Like, it shouldn't have taken that for me to, you know, go and see it. But, like, I'm very excited, yes. finally, are you happy? Jesus.

Jesus makes me happy. I think so. I think that being happy is like, I feel like being happy is one of those things that you're like, oh God, I'm happy? And then you're like, well, you have happy moments and you have enough of those happy moments and then you can be content.

I think if someone's like, I'm happy all the time, you'd be like, are you okay? Are you well? because you can't be happy all the time, surely, but I think I am, for the first time, I think I'm excited because I feel like I'm starting to find my rhythm in this industry that I have never found my rhythm in before. And I feel like there's a possibility,

I'm not saying like success particularly, I just feel like I might start to now know what I want to do in it. And I've never, I've just, so far it's just been like, I just want people to laugh. And like, yes, of course, we all want that. But now I'm like, oh, I think I, I'm enjoying myself and enjoying comedy more, rather than just the anxiety being so outweighing any enjoyment I would get.

The enjoyment would only be when the show goes well, that lovely feeling of just being like, I just did a great show. That is great, but that can't be it. I have to, there has to be more that I enjoy about it. And now I think I'm starting to enjoy a little bit more. Yeah. So I suppose yes, I'm potentially happy. Thanks, Stevie. You can find out when Stevie Martin is performing near you at steviemartin.com

and keep up to date with Stevie on Instagram at 5TVM, 5TVM. So Stevie where the S is a 5, 5 TVM. It's a capital M here, but I don't think it needs to be. If you fancy an extra, a whopping great 35 minutes with Stevie, join the Insiders Club on Patreon. It's only £3 a month, and we will discuss Stevie's murky past as an Edinburgh fringe reviewer. Gamekeeper turned poacher, no less. We'll talk about the inside editorial secrets of content creators,

and we'll find out why her Edinburgh sells her in a very different way. All of that and more at patreon.com.com slash comcom pod to join the Insiders Club. And of course, go to Stuartgoldsmith.com for information about the podcast, my climate comedy and everything I'm doing, including my currently happening national autumn tour. All right then, speak to you soon.