The Comedian's Comedian Podcast - Suzi Ruffell (2019): ComCompendium

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

We’re back in the archives with Suzi Ruffell from 2019, where we discuss:making sure that LGBTQ+ people in the audience feel seenhow punishing she found being a new act (and whether she could do it all again)and why she finds happiness terrifyingJoin the Insiders Club at patreon.com/comcompod where you can instantly get access to the full back catalogue of extras, including 25 minutes with Suzi!👉 Sign up to the NEW ComComPod Mailing List and follow the show on Instagram, YouTube & TikTok.Support our independently produced Podcast from only £3/month at Patreon.com/ComComPod:✅ Instant access to full video and ad-free audio episodes✅ Exclusive extra content you can't find anywhere else✅ Early access to new episodes where possible✅ Exclusive membership offerings including weekly-ish Stu&AsCatch Up with Suzi: Suzi Ruffell is currently on tour with The Juggle, find out all the dates and more at suziruffell.com.Everything I'm up to: Come and see me LIVE - find out all the info and more at stuartgoldsmith.com/comedy. Discover my comedy about the climate crisis, for everyone from activists to CEOs, at stuartgoldsmith.com/climate.Get in touch: If you’re listening and thinking ‘I’d love to work with ComComPod on getting something out there’ or ‘there’s someone you should absolutely have on’ - drop us an email at [e-mail]! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Stuart here. You can go to Stuart Goldsmith.com slash comedy for tickets to my national tour. That's right. I'm taking my second ever climate comedy show. It's called Canary. I'm taking it to the Edinburgh Festival for the last two weeks of August at the Monkey Barrel, Cabaret Voltaire. And I shall see you there in the last two weeks of August. And then it's a national tour for this guy. Cambridge, Glasgow, Oxford, Manchester, Cardiff, Maidenhead, Sheffield and Birmingham, culminating in my biggest ever tour show at Bristol Old Vic. Stuart Goldsmith.com slash comedy for all your tickets. Welcome back to the show. This is another one from way back when in the archives with Susie Ruffle from 2019. Brilliant, Susie. We talk about, or amongst other things, we talk about making sure that LGBT plus people in the audience feel seen. We'll talk at length about how punishing she found being a new act and find out whether she feels she could do it all again. And we found out why at the time she found happiness terrifying. Susie was already brilliant way back then, has gone on to fantastic things. She's currently on tour with The Juggle. You can find out more about that at susie ruffle.com.

Here from 2019 is Susie Ruffle. Were you an actor for any length of time? I did a bit of acting, but I was always sort of the funny part, and casting me was always quite difficult because I was never, I was never like naturally the romantic lead. Therefore, you play the funny roles, and that's often to girls that are a bit older. So I was sort of this younger actress that didn't really, couldn't really find a space. And then that's when I started writing bits myself and then stand up.

How funny. And then flash forward, 11 years later, here we are. Yeah. Yeah. And a very nice flat that you're renting. It's absolutely gorgeous. And it feels very, I feel, this is the first place I've been able to record at home in my Edinburgh accommodation because it's nice enough. Very, it's very.

picture for the reader we're sitting on piles of money screwed mcduck style it's uh it's pretty good so let's let's we'll we'll we'll bounce around the timeline but let's talk about your show the other night which i had tears in my eyes watching it and joy it was like a joyous thing right yeah it's me like you bounced on stage like jeanel meney i'll take that and just gave us a show with physicality and wit and verve and big, big, punchy bits. And by the time you get onto that routine, which, you know, the spotlight routine, which we'll talk about later on,

I just felt like I'm watching someone's breakthrough show. That's a nice thing of you to say. I really love doing the show. I really enjoy performing it. I think it's my best. It's a show that I've written quicker than any other. Go on. So my tour, so I've done, I did a tour.

a couple of years ago that was like I think I know like 10 dates and then last year I did about 25, I say last year it finished in May sure yeah yeah the festival started on the 31st of July

so it was the 24th of my actually that's not I did one show of it one last time on the 14th of July my old show so I've been writing a show whilst touring another show which has been a real challenge but quite

has helped me turn over material really, really quickly because I think when you're on stage all the time, you're more creative. Definitely. So because I was doing an hour twice a week at my tour shows, to an audience that are really excited to see me, I was way more confident trying new bits

in the first half of the show or when I was opening for somebody else that week because I was so used to being on stage in front of a good crowd. But yeah, I'm really proud of the show and I really enjoying it every night. And I really hope that that's, continues, I'm sort of waiting for that tough show because it hasn't happened yet. And I know at some point it will. Last night I had a weird thing happen though.

My venue started leaking onto the stage, which created a... Jeune Soqua, a real pocking pain in the ass, which was a bit annoying. But... I've taken that in my stride because as people listening to this, Will, may or may not know, the Edinburgh Festival venues are often cobbled together out. A lot of them are like old schools or university buildings and some of them are kind of hand-built and finish the day before. Yeah, so I've got like a big porter cabin

that I'm paying a lot of money for that now has a leak. So I'm winning in many respects. But yeah, it's, yeah, who knows? I think that it's a show that I'm enjoying doing. People are coming. People seem to be having a nice time. What more can you want? Other than everything.

Other than everything. Well, I was going to say, you're speaking. Now, and I realise it's early in the morning, you're speaking in a very sort of humble and nice kind of... Well, yeah, I mean, because what I really want is like a Netflix special and a series and all the other things. That's what we're going to talk about, because you're the Susie on stage, which I know is...

What is the difference? What's the distance between... It's not that... Yeah, it's not that much. No. That's a great Frank Skinner book, which I'm sure we've both read, where he talks about when he comes off stage, you turn down certain parts of yourself.

Sure. And you go on, you turn up certain parts of yourself, turn down other parts of yourself. I think the reason the show is doing well and I am enjoying it is because it's the closest I've ever been to myself on stage so this is my sixth solo hour my first two I was doing an impression of what I thought a comedian was

so I spent a lot of time with some of the sort of during that period even still now I spent a lot of time with very talented male comics like Josh Riddickham, Ramesh, Sean Walsh and a number of others as well and I think my first two shows was me doing an impression of what I thought stand-up was so I had a bit that was a bit like Josh

that was a bit observational which isn't really what I do had a bit, some bigger act out bits like Sean which is actually what I do do and what I do enjoy doing had, you know, and so I had all these I was trying very hard to work out what kind of comic

I was being on stage and I did that sort of quite visibly twice at the Edinburgh Festival which... That's very deftly put I very visibly tried to work out what I was in the spotlight. Yeah, I had two shows

that were completely fine. Wouldn't have upset anyone. Would have made you laugh a bit? Wouldn't have been your favourite show of the festival. Totally fine. And then I had a little break from Edinburgh

and briefly wondered whether I would stop doing comedy because I found it because it's really hard when you start and I wasn't sure whether I would carry on doing it and I found I came back from the Edinburgh Festival in what must it have been 2014

and was like I don't think I think I'm fine and I don't think I want to be fine as a stand-up and so I think that this might have been those five years I had to go at comedy and then I'll go back to acting or try writing or do something else and I went to my agent who is the fantastic flow off the curb and I said

and I said I think I might give up and then I cried in a whole foods which is a very middle class thing to do for someone that is I'm crying in a whole food because my stand-up career wasn't working yeah exactly

I mean for someone who comes from a very working class family that's I mean sounds very arrogant let's be honest and she said to me oh I think you should give it a few more months give it a few more months like you know on other gigs that you've got in

and I think you've got something. Carry on, carry on, carry on, carry on. And then I was still considering giving up. And she rang me and said, you still, like, you know, how's it going? You still, when I was like, she was like, what about if I told you you could support Alan Carr for the next six months

on his warm-up tour? And I said, okay. And then being on tour with Alan, his audience are very similar to mine. I had six months. Not, it wasn't every single night. There was probably 25 shows, 30 shows, in total over the six months, but I had, I ripped every gig

because I found an audience that if you love Alan, there's a really good chance you might like what I do. And I completely... Whilst at the same time it being a very different flavour to what Alan does, it's the right audience. Yes, exactly. And over those six months, I completely fell in a love of comedy in a way that I hadn't, for those first two years of trying to be a stand-up, trying to unlock what this puzzle is that makes people, I was, whereas then I just... started just loving being on stage every night and working with Alan because he is, he was the comedian I loved before I was a comic. So his Tooth Fairy DVD, when I lived in my student flat, when I was at drama school, we would put on Tooth Fairy before we went out.

It's a really weird thing. It's really strange that I now do stand-up. We would often have it on in the background. Like, we wouldn't put on music. It's a strangely not always. I'm not saying like that's what we always did. But I remember there was quite often, we'd be like, oh, should you watch that DVD again before we go out? It's so funny. So we've just watched different bits of it. And so Alan knows all of this now. But he was that comic for me, who I loved. And then I was genuinely thinking, I don't think I'm good enough at stand-up. I think I'll stop. And then just, you know, very good agenting from flow and lovely opportunity that Alan was about to go out on the road. And he didn't have a lot of material. And he wanted to do 150-seaters in North Wales. And, you know, really far away from any big city so he could go and work out what he wanted to talk about.

And I was very available and very, very keen. And I just completely fell in love with stand-up in a way that I never had before. What's the kind of ratio of stuff that's funny to stuff that's meaningful in a typical hour, in this hour, or the sorts of hours you like to write? Is it just chunky bit, bit, bit, bit, bit? I'd say 50 minutes are funny, five minutes of thoughtful.

because I think that, and I don't think that's the same for everybody. I think that's a kind of stand-up show that I like writing. But I also think I think there's always something with being someone that is openly gay on stage, talking about what my life looks like as a gay person and talking about, like this show I'm talking about getting married and potentially starting a family. for me it's very important that I say that there's a moment where I sort of go by the way this is different for me

so the show at the festival is playing really, really well and people are really enjoying it and people are coming up to me afterwards and saying lovely things and saying that, you know, the bits about I've got a routine about carrying a backpack of shame because I was gay and I feel like I've always had it all my life.

It's a very small moment in the show it's actually a throwaway line that's then a callback later on. But it's important that I say it because I know there'll be people in the audience that really means something to and straight people in the audience it's so quick that they won't even notice it.

But at the Edinburgh Festival that will play great, I know that when I go and play the Darwin Theatre in Blackburn and the majority of the audience will still be straight but there'll be people that have driven for two hours to see me, that will be, it's important that I have that moment where people that are like me feel seen and feel heard and feel like our stories are being told. So there was a lady the other night that came up to me after the show

and a moment in the show, and I mean like a moment I talk about the LGBT inclusion in schools and then the fact that Alice and I decided we wanted to start a family just before that came out in the press and that it made us worry, well, It wasn't us, actually. It was me. She's very chill. But it made me worry that I, can I be a mum? Am my kids going to get bullied? Are they going to be bullied because of me?

What does that all mean? And do I want to, am I going to be putting a child through something if I'm their mum? And a lady waited for me afterwards the other night and she was maybe in her 60s and she said, I came out when my son was 10 and things have always been fine. have been bullied. He's an incredible man. He loves me and my partner. We've got wonderful grandchildren. Do it. Do it. And then she said to me, like, you know, thank you for talking about our stories on stage. We never get our stories. We never get our stories and stuff. Because often when there's a gay person in things, that it will be a punchline or a friend or they'll be like

the comical gay guy or like the slightly bitch lesbian who says silly things. And it's really, or it'll be a woman that's gay that has a fling with a man, which is, you know, which happens, which is totally fine. You know, every letter in the LGBTQ plus means something and is important, but I find that as someone that's just, I'm just a gay lady that just, I find that our stories are rarely told. And so I feel like if I make you laugh for 50 minutes, nonstop, punching you with gags, I totally deserve that moment where I go, please see me, please see me and see people. like me and know that we're normal. And now, even just talking about representation,

do you feel like there is a sense amongst kind of right-thinking, nice people, that, hey, we're, you know, everyone sees gay people now. Yeah. And we still have miles and miles and miles and miles to go. I think we, I think that, you know, most people in our little bubble, like, you know, I don't need to, you know, I don't get any shit in my bubble. I don't get any, you know, no one's, uh, I'm not getting any homophobia. from the artistic London or Edinburgh bubble.

But, you know, I still experience homophobia on a routine basis. I'll get shit every time I'm on TV. People genuinely think that people like me shouldn't have children. There's 72 countries across the world where homosexuality is still illegal. There's 11 countries where it's still punishable by death. And I say that on stage in my last three shows, because it's really important that people hear that. And it's the only thing I've ever repeated at the festival.

but just because I don't think that people, like Alice and I are going on our honeymoon, I've got a funny little gag about it, but it's an important thing to consider, which is we have to, we want to go somewhere hot, but we don't want it to be illegal to be gay there. And straight people never have to consider that. They never have to go, oh God, I'd love to go to Barbados. Oh no, we better not, because there'd be a really awkward moment when we're checking in. and then we'd probably just have to pretend that we're friends. So we'd probably have separate beds.

Probably don't want separate beds on our honeymoon. And it's important to me that an audience hear that. And it's funny. It's a really funny gag. But it's important that they hear it. There are lovely moments throughout your show where you can kind of, an audience member can kind of identify the gay,

pockets in the show by reactions. There was the night I saw you. There was that one guy that hooted at a joke that... Do you know what I mean? It's not that no one else got. It was just a turn of phrase. Yeah. That you were like, clocked it and he felt seen.

Do you know what I mean? That was really beautiful. And I'll get that every night in a different little way. And even more so on the tour. Even more so on the tour. On the tour it will be... It's a weird thing in that, like, people... I'm not a famous person,

but there'll be people every night that wait for me. to because there's so few gay women that are on television at all. You know, I'm not on it much, but so few gay women that are on television at all, it's, I'm, and I think because of the podcast that I've got with Tom Allen as well, I think feeling like you're seen is such an important thing. And, you know, it's representation of cross, you know, not obviously just gay people, but, you know, people of colour, people from different parts of the world, people with different cultures, different religions, you know, people want to feel seen.

And I think that, and I guess with my shows is that it's 100% stand-up. It's not theatre. It's not those shows that are sort of like a call to arms. You know, it's funny stand-up, but it's for everyone. And then there might be a little special moment for someone that's just come out. or someone, a lot of gay people come to, young gay people come to see my shows with their parents. I get that a lot. Parents waiting for me with their teenage daughter that's just come out or a teenage son that's just come out. And there's a special moment for them, I hope.

I hope, which is lovely, which is how I've managed to find my crowd. Even though when I'm on tour, the majority of the audience is still straight, which is great because I want to be able to appeal to everyone. There's a throwaway line in the show about Sue Perkins Yes In a kind of waiting for her to die kind of way I'm not waiting for her to die I'm a big fan of Sue

I'm a big fan of Sue I'm a huge fan of Sue No there's no one suggested you're hoping for that No but waiting for her to retire Do you feel like how much truth is there In your apprehension of the places available at the table Oh I mean it's certainly a joke

I think that there's I think there's enough room at the table but you know you do sort of go like for a long time the only gay women on TV was Sue Perkins Sandy Toxwig and Claire Boulding and that was it and they were the same women when I was coming out which was when I was 20 which is

13 years ago it's the same women that are on television there's not really anyone that you can be like they're on TV all the time and they're gay like there's not and I don't think that I've got a like muscle in for my seat at the table but it is, it's a, you mean, it's a throwaway line about the lack of gay women, I think.

I think that's what the gag is. I mean, I just improvised it on the first night of the show. I did it before. I did it on, like, literally a week ago, I improvised it. And I was like, that's funny, that's staying in. And do you, like, there doesn't seem, in those three women that you've mentioned, none of them make an issue of their gayness.

There is no, is there an equivalent of camp in lesbian. Oh, in the fact that they're quite dissexualised? Yes. Yeah, maybe even... I don't know if I would say they would de-sexualised. Well, I think that's sometimes... But is that part of it, do you think?

Well, I think that's sometimes a thing with camp in that it's... Not always, of course, but there is this notion of old-fashioned camp culture, which is like... It's nothing to do with sex. It's all to do with, like, being a bit of a fop. Sure.

Or being a bit over-the-top or being sort of a character. and I'm not saying that camp guys are that at all but I think there's an element of it that a lot of gay men that were very, that have been very sort of, okay, like Del Winton or Julian Clary not, he was always quite sexual,

but gay men that are on television would often be sort of de-sexualized because it's more appealing to a straight audience if it's just, you know, you don't have to think about them having a partner. Yeah. or what they do and the doors are shut. And I guess there's some of that with those women.

But, I mean, the sort of thing is that, like, you know, they're all very clever. They're the clever middle-class lesbians that you'd have around for dinner. They're acceptable somehow. Exactly. It's the acceptable face of lesbianism. And I don't know if I'm unacceptable, but it's quite important for me that I don't talk about sex that much, but that I'm not in that, you're not necessarily to say that they are,

but I'm, my sexuality is part of me. Not a massive part, it's just who I go to bed with. You know, but it's, yeah, I guess that I've sort of made a decision that I didn't want to be sort of a desexualized version of that. You, something I really, something really appealed to me about your show is that you, and the fact it appealed to me was kind of to do more with the maturity maybe of your writing there was no moment where you did a kind of like an introductory

I'm gay joke no do you mean and that felt like a decision on your part that felt mature and not to suggest anyone doing the equivalent is immature but there's often a kind of set up of the character with a gay person yeah which I've had for years you know I'm you know I don't know if I need to come out my hair gives it away or whatever. Yeah.

I've had those guys. So, you know, so my girlfriend, sorry boys, or, you know, those kind of games. And the decision this time was not to have one of them. Yeah. So talk to me about that decision. I don't know.

I just feel I have done a lot of coming out jokes. And if, I mean, I'm like, catch up. Catch up. But I guess also, you know, I've been out on television a lot. You know, whenever I'm on, you know, I'll often do.

a gag about being gay, you know, and in like a panel show situation, it's quite an easy way to get a laugh. Sure. But, yeah, it was a sort of decision not to do it, and I don't know exactly where it comes from, but I was like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to come out in this year's show. I'm just going to be. I just, I think that really resonated. Right.

It's like the absence of that joke was felt. Oh, right. See, I hadn't even considered that. Yeah. I don't know, I don't know quite what I mean. I think the absence of that joke was felt somehow. Right. You know, part of when I kind of came away thinking,

like I've always enjoyed your work, and I came away thinking, fucking hell, Ruffles got really good. And part of that is a maturity and part of that is a kind of definiteness in the way that you're, if you're playing chess, you're putting the pieces down like that.

Do you know what I? That's how that show felt. Well, that's the thing. I think that, I mean, one of the, the most important thing with stand-up is that you're enjoying your show. And I think with this one, I really enjoy it. I really, it's exactly what I like doing. And that, and I think there's a confidence within that, whereas, like, this year, you know, it's so hard at the festival, which you're constantly being reviewed, which I absolutely hate.

I hate seeing people at the end of every big routine looking down with a notepad. and I know it's something that, you know, sort of people, you know, it happens because it happens. But I do... Note to the reviewing community. Find a different way to make notes somehow. God knows how. Don't be visible making notes. PSA ends.

And there's, you know, there's a lot of reviewers that I really like and respect who have, you know, really supported me. But I do hate being reviewed, of course. but with this show I'm like basically if you like what I do you're like this show I think this is me doing what I do best if you don't like what I do

this will not change your mind this is the comedian that I want to be and if you don't like it that's totally fine I found an audience that do and the response from the audience every night and the people coming up to me afterwards has confirmed that that I'm like this is

I think critics will like the show but the audience that come and see me me will love this show. And that's what it's, that's what's most important. So let's talk about the writing, like day one of the writing process. Is there ever a day one? Or is it always that you are cycling in new stuff into an existing support or new material or slot? Yeah, I'm always, I don't really, I don't type it up. I don't sit down and I'll do like a spider diagram of like all different ideas. What's the funniest things out of those? I'll improvise a bit

There'll be something that happens And what often happens is there'll be a line That So one of the early gags in the show Is that my mum has a catchphrase And her catchphrase is Oh, you look tired And I

The idea of my mum having a catchphrase I thought was really funny And then I just tried Three different versions of what a catchphrase could be Tired, got the biggest laugh That was it Tired's written down and so...

And is that you tried three versions, all of which were true about things your mum says? Right, they're not just... So it's like, you're just... You're too thin. You're too tired, you're too thin, and your hair is very short. But your tired gets the most.

Sure. So your tired's in. But I think that... So I think I was... I'm very much... I think there are two camps of comedy and it's performers that learn to write or writers that learn to perform,

and I'm definitely a performer that learnt to write. I think that was the thing with those two early shows that I mentioned earlier, the act outs were very good. That would be what everyone would say. The actouts were very good. The accents were good. The taking on different characters, doing that sort of thing. I could always do that.

It took me a little while to get good at writing. And I think that's because of a range of reasons. One of them being, I have severe dyslexia, and I never thought that writing was for me because I didn't think that I was good enough at it. So actually, in the first sort of four or five years of me doing stand-up, the idea of sitting down with a pen and paper was terrifying because I'd never written anything since my GCSEs.

Because I went to drama school, I did a vocational course. I didn't do A-levels. I did a vocational course because I hate writing. And now I'm a writer, which is very strange. But I didn't think that I could. I hadn't like sort of given myself the permission to think of myself as a writer. So it was just always me improvising bits and then making notes.

of the improvisation rather than improvising bits, then sitting down and writing a better version of that improvised bit. And so I think what happened for a long time is I made the same mistakes over and over again, but didn't, hadn't worked out how I could change it. And so now writing is something that I really enjoy doing. And so this year shows about me being happy. And so the first thing that I did was make a list of all the things that made me happy and then thought, everything comes from truth. There's not one thing in the show that's a lie. I mean, the ending bits are lies, the punchlines are lies,

you know, the way in which I stretch out the story and give you colour that wasn't really there. That's all the creativity of writing. But everything in the show is true. The fact that it's called Dance Like Everyone's Watching, it's completely true that my mum misread a sign that said, Dance Like Nobody's Watching. We were in Wilkinson's, she misread it,

we're all dyslexic, it was hilarious. I wrote it down. And, yeah, how I then play with the truth is where all the laughs come. But I'll write down, okay, what's made me happy this year, this, that, the other, my girlfriend, but buying a little flat, my career, all these silly little things, and then go, what's the funniest things that are true that's happened in all these little scenarios

in these little worlds of my life, my world of my relationship, what's the funny things that have happened in the last year that Alice and I have experienced, what part of it can I make funny on stage? And that's how the whole show's written. The show will never be typed up. It's an absolute bugger when I have to do bits for TV

and they're like, could you send across the script? And I'm like, I don't have the script. And then what I usually do is, record the show and then pay someone to type it up for me because it would just be easier. I found the website Fiverr is amazing for that. Oh, okay, good to know. But the entirety of the show, I put a picture of this on Instagram a little while ago on my stories, but the whole of the show is four lines of words,

and each word is probably about a four-minute bit. And that's it. That's as written. Four lines of words. How do you mean? I'm going to show you. And then you can maybe do a better explaining. Do a better explaining. Do a better explaining, please, Stu. Oh, okay. Well, this is a slightly longer version, but basically, that's as written as the show will ever be. Oh, yeah, lovely.

So it's just like flat moving. Ryan? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what we've got here is sort of 25 lines, each of which has got between, two and six words on it separated by little dashes, little dashes or forwards what's the difference between a dash and a forward slash I used exactly this technique

dash is new idea forward slash is following on great, love it, I do exactly the same that's hilarious and this is literally the back of a postcard I see which is quite sweet yeah the postcard has a quality written on it which is what I'd take on stage and put down and some people would notice it and some people wouldn't great

so that's and I've you know I remember Stephen Grant, the comedian, messaging me and saying, oh my God, like I put something, I put like, oh, going back to Edinburgh or whatever and then a picture of like papers all over my floor. And he said, do you only ever hand write it out? Do you not word process it?

I was like, no, it doesn't, that doesn't feel creative to me tapping. It feels creative to write with my, like, hands. That's how I write. And so I think that, that's a little bit different to other people. But I think it's about, there's a thing isn't there. Like when you start out of stand up,

it's like you have to do it like this and you have to do it like that. And you've got to think that Stuart Lee is the best. You just have to do that. That's the rules. We all have to think that Stuart Lee is the best. And we all have to write like this and do that. And I just, I think that's why it took me a little bit longer to find my voice for want of a better word.

Because none of those tools worked for me. because I didn't go to university and I don't know how to sit down and write in front of a computer because I never had to write a dissertation. And I only have four GCSEs, so I never concentrated at school. And so I had to find my own way of doing that, which is I've bought a flat.

It was a funny thing that happened with an estate agent. Okay, here's all the funny things that happened with an estate agent. Okay, I'm going to top secret. I'm not being paid. so I can do what I want. Here's some funny things that happen with an estate agent. Record it, listen back to it. Tick, tick, tick.

Cross, cross. There's the beginning of a routine. It's interesting to me that you attribute that discovery of your voice in part to, like, the fact it took me a long time. It's because I'm dyslexic. It's because I'd never had the university thing. Whereas I would say the reality is you have taken an absolutely average amount of time to find your voice. It's just that the people with whom you're knocking around are, if they're Kevin Bridges, Ramesh and Josh, Josh. Those are all the people who found their voices the fastest out of everyone.

You know, and they're also excellent comedians, but one of the things that defines all of those people. Kevin, I did so you think you're funny with Kevin. And I remember at the time, everyone was going like, has he been doing this for 40 years? Yeah, and he was like 20. Yeah, he was 18. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Because those people found their voices incredibly quickly. Yeah. Just had that kind of, you know. Yeah. So that's almost one of the disadvantages of the youth. slipstream of supporting excellent comics and learning from them. One of the disadvantage, perhaps, is that you put yourself or you kind of,

and I'm sure we all do come up with reasons why I always think, God, if I haven't pissed around on the street, taking risks, challenging myself, having a wonderful time and enjoying all the art around me. But my preconception is like, oh, I could have, I was grinding out shows when I could have been learning. You know, I think everyone carries around. Yeah, of course. if not a backpack and if not shame,

maybe it's, you know, a pocket watch of, I did it wrong like this. Yeah. I mean, Kevin is the, out of the people that, I only done a little bit of support for Kevin, but they were the harder shows because he is, like, he's got such a specific audience. Sure.

That absolutely love him. Yeah. But when I've been doing support for other people, they've been like, oh, okay, something else. Sure. But with Kevin, it's like, fuck off. You're like, okay. Yeah.

I'd like come off. I've been like, oh, that was tough. And then watch him completely annihilate it and be phenomenal. And then go home and go, I need to work harder. I'm not sure what this is. But yeah, maybe it is. It has taken me a normal amount of time. I think that, you know, it's difficult sometimes

when you're someone that's not been like in that category of like having a first Edinburgh that's amazing where you've got all four stars, a couple of three. Sure, you might have been like on the long list for the nominations or been nominated for newcomer, that's like, it does feel like if you don't start out in stand-up like that, then you've not had a good start. But actually, you know, the year that I was not nominated, you know, there are people now that don't even do stand-up or I even, or certainly don't do the same sort of things as I do now.

And I'm sure they're doing their own thing, which is brilliant. But I can't even exactly remember who all of them were because they're doing different things and they're not necessarily stand-ups anymore. The ecosystem of being a new act is extraordinarily punishing mentally. I don't think I could do it again. I look now and I go, I don't know how I carried on doing stand-up when I was like, I was mediocre for, I think lots of us are, mediocre for quite a long time when I,

because I'd only come out two years before I started doing stand-up. So I'd only told people who I really was two years before. So then I was telling audiences. I still didn't even really know how to express who I was. You know, and so it's, yeah, so I had like a, I didn't know, so I wasn't authentic on stage. And, yeah, I guess that it sometimes feels like if you're not in that, oh, you're in the final of this competition and that competition, or you win a thing, or you're in this list of six names that come out of the Edinburgh Festival that is the deciding thing about who the new people are. It's really easy to feel like you failed, but you haven't. You're just doing what you're doing and you'll find out the best way of doing it.

And that's brilliant. That thing of like people, comics often say it's a marathon, not a sprint. Yeah. One of the reasons we all think it's a sprint is because we all start our marathon and 100 meters into the marathon, someone takes a picture and goes, there we go, those are the winners. Yes. God, that was clever, Goldsmith. That's exactly what that is.

We do. It is a marathon, but everyone is fucking constantly pretending it's a sprint. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I'm pleased that it has taken me, like, so I did a live at the Apollo last year, which was like the highlight of my life. Maybe my life, no, but the highlight of my career, certainly. And it was a dreamy gig. A lot of people have said to me, oh, it's, it can be tough, it can be quite a tough gig. the audience are lit it's you know it can be sort of a funny set up lit in a sense of you can see their faces because of lights

yeah not light yeah yeah the audience is lit no sorry there's lighting on the audience so that cameras can have cutaway shots to people laughing and you know people have said to me I'm sure I'll have a great great gig

but just be aware it can be tough and I had probably one of my best gigs of last year and it's there of, but just, you know, it's, I was lucky that Kerry Goddlyman was hosting, who's a really good friend of mine. Kerry was on, and Felicity was on the early show because they shoot two in a night, and Kerry and Felicity are two of my really good friends, we got to hang out all day together. It made me a lot less nervous than I've been sitting in a room by myself.

Kerry ripped it. I know that if you like Kerry Godleman, there's a good chance you're like me. We're not a million miles apart, and she started, had this incredible gig, was smashing it, and I got to slide straight into the slipstream, because I wasn't doing anything different. get, you know, and yeah, I think that I wanted to do Apollo for three years before that and had been knocking on the door and they'd been coming to see me, but not booking me and being like, we like her, but not yet. And that was frustrating at the time. When I walked off stage at the Apollo, I was like, tonight was the night that I was meant to do it. It was meant to take this long. It was meant to be, you know, whereas some of my friends did the Apollo after four years of doing stand-up. I did it after nearly 11, but it was perfect. It was the best night and it was

amazing and if you had told me when I started stand-up, this is, you know, you're going to be shit for a bit. I'd have been like, oh no, I'll probably won't because it's so hard. And you look back and go, you know, the laughs that you get when you're new, they sort of fuel you for such a long time. Like, when you first start ripping gigs or having really good shows, you'd be on a high for like two days. Now it's like 20 minutes and I'm like, yeah, that's nice. You know, and so, and it's those things that you like cling on to. I remember when I was still temping and gigging, you know, and I'd be like joyful for the next two days doing photocopies after being like, I've got a new bit that worked in front of 10 people. Oh my God, I'm winning.

But similarly, as you say, if you had to go back and start again. Oh, it's so tough. It's so tough. And, like, you know, there'll be people at the fringe that are having really hard years. And it's really... And when you're having a hard year, you don't have the perspective to say it as a hard year. You just think, I'm shit, this is shit. You also can't go in six years, it'll be much better because you're like six years.

That's forever. But it's about... I guess one thing that comedy's really taught me. is about patience. And I have really enjoyed, you know, after those first couple of years, once I got on the road with Alan, and I was really enjoying being a stand-up,

I've had the best time. I've absolutely loved it. And I say on stage, I love my job. And it's absolutely true. Like, doing the tellies great, doing the panel shows of fun, did a little travelogue series earlier in the year called the Comedy Bus.

We went to different people's hometowns. It was so fun, but there's nothing that I'm enjoying more than my hour on stage every night. When you were selecting your material for the Apollo, you probably had quite a lot to choose from. Yeah. So what kind of decisions did you make? I knew that I was going to do my routine about naked attraction

because it was a routine that I improvised on stage and I never changed a word of. Oh, yeah. And so it was just a bit that felt, and I'd done it in all different situations. I've done it opening for Catherine Ryan. You know, with her audience, I've done it opening for Josh. I've done it on my little tour.

I'd done it at the Birmingham Glee. I'd done it at the London store. It had worked everywhere. I can't remember a time it didn't work. And I can't say that about all of my bits. And so I knew that was in. I knew I had to do a gag where I set myself up. I had to let them know I was gay.

In a way, you know, like we said, I don't do it in this show. But when you're doing it in front of that many people. When you're saying hello to that many people. Exactly. you know, for most people, that might have been the first time I've ever seen me on telly. So I need to go, just so you know I know I'm gay. Like, that's sort of what you have to do. This is a choice to look like this.

It's not a choice to be gay, but to a... I know, is basically what I need to say at the top. But, yeah, I think that I just use the bits that I thought were funniest and then stitch them together. And then I'm a big practiser. I did like it 15 times, the exact set, 15 times around London. The exact set. Changing like one word here or there.

And yeah, and then that was, yeah, that was it. I was just, and then you send across your script and they okay it. And so I did that and they okayed it. I was like, okay, this is it, this is the routine. And I was really happy with it. You record 20 minutes. Seven goes out on the show. So they really cut it down.

But I was happy with the cut, and people seem to enjoy it. It's actually the only time that I've never got any shit on Twitter when I've been on telly. I didn't get one piece of negativity. People said to me, don't go on Twitter the night that it goes out,

just in case. And so the next day I looked, and I was like, not one bit of your shit. I mean, I've had your shit before, sure, but for my Apollo set, I didn't get a bit of it, which was lovely.

And the shit that you're getting, is it because you're a woman, because you're gay, because why do you... A little bit of color, man, a little bit of gay. Yeah, I mean, some people don't like the kind of sound-up I do, that's cool. I mean, there's no need to let me know,

just stop watching. But some people, yeah, some people don't like funny women and some people don't like the gays. I mean, I'll get a bit of like, you're going to burn in hell. You just have to take that in your stride. Oh, that's just... Repent now.

God, I wouldn't even have imagined you would get that. I think he's fine with it. if he exists. But yeah, that's a different thing. That's like a weird thing of... I did a show last year, which I really liked as well, actually, that was about being trolled by this one guy

who created 13 different Twitter accounts. And I always knew it was him because he was Skeletor's face. So it had the same avatar. And slightly different wording of who, of the name. But kept... I would block him. He would create a new,

I mean, he must have to create new email addresses. Like, he'd go to the trouble of just to tell me that I was disgusting, that what I was putting in front of children was wrong, that I was dangerous, that because people like me were ruining the world.

That's why the world's falling apart because of gay marriage. I mean, I think it might have some other things, but there might be some other reasons for that, but that takes it out of you. That takes it out of you. You know, all of the plus, things of being like I was saying earlier about people that come to my show,

people that feel heard. That's lovely. The downside is that there are people that, you know, there are senators in Congress in America who genuinely think it would be better if they killed all gay people, if there was a cold. You know, the deputy president of America, you know, Donald Trump once joked about Mike Pence, well, he wants to hang all the gays anyway. And then they both laughed.

And, you know, as a gay person, you can, you know, shrug that off. But it does slightly knock away at your soul and go, there are a lot of people that think that I'm, that I need therapy to get out of this. You know, like, I've got a friend that's making a documentary at the moment about the fact that gay conversion therapy happens in London every week. Every week. It feels like a very American thing, but it's happening. in the UK as well.

Like, homophobia is still alive and well. Not, you know, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. But it's interesting, I did Richard Herring's podcast. And in it, I spoke a little bit about being gay and someone messaged me being like, what the fuck do you always have to keep on about being gay? Homophobia doesn't happen anymore. So the fact that you felt the need to tell me that

means that homophobia is happening. Because I'm just telling you about my life. I'm just telling you about what I experience and what I have to experience. And so that's the thing that it's the lovely thing to be like, to be able to feel like you're a voice and to be able to feel like you're saying the right things or you're saying the things that you wish that you had heard.

You know, like I wish a teacher at school told me it was okay to be gay, I would have saved thousands in therapy. You know, that's why that LGBT inclusion thing is so important now. But, you know, there will always be someone that, hopefully not always, but there often is someone that now, because I am talking about this in a very public way, that just think that I'm, you know, a piece of shit. I think it's a choice and think that it's...

And that is the thing that is, I'd say, the hardest. And when people make it very personal, like, you know, people like you shouldn't have children. When you talk about spending thousands on therapy, does it complicate what is all, I mean, all mental health is complicated, but presumably one's sexuality and one's apprehension of one's sexuality further confuses, like, were you depressed about, I mean, talk to me about therapy, talk to me about mental health.

I'm an anxious person, so I've always been a worry, but I think that comes from the fact that when I was 13, or 12 or 13, I realized I was gay, and I think that's where my anxiety started because my fear, was, if anyone finds out about this, they'll hate you. And so I just had this massive secret. And it was seven years until I came out.

I came out when I was 20. And there were boyfriends in that time. And there were, you know, I tried to have relationships with guys because I was so desperate not to be gay. I really didn't want to be gay. I think very few people realise they're gay, maybe less so now because it feels like a more positive world for gay people, certainly for younger people.

But the day that I realised, I was gay or, you know, it wasn't necessarily a day. But when I was like, oh, I think I'm definitely like that, I remember thinking I wish I could be anybody else in the world. And I'd sit at school thinking, I wish I was her, I wish I was her, they don't have to deal with this, I wish I was them, I wish it was them. And I think, and I guess that's where a lot of my anxiety started, that I was terrified that people would find out I was gay, terrified.

And part of it is because there was no gay women for me to look at on television, to think I'm normal. And I guess that's why I've always been so openly out. And I'm not trying to be a fucking hero. And I'm not trying to like be a... It's just saying people like us exist. And also I'm really funny and maybe you're like me and straight people like me.

And I'm not this weird idea of what a gay person is. I'm just a person. But I think that that's really... It was a really hard thing for me, which is a strange thing now because I am so open about my sexuality but I hated that I was gay I was really ashamed

I really hated every part of who I was it's why I started doing acting so I could just pretend to be somebody else for a few hours I was desperate to be like my female cousins who I'm really close to who were all in my head normal and you know I guess it's cliched in some ways

but I always made people laugh That was my way of dealing with it by being stupid. That way I wouldn't, you know, I'd be stupid to the boys at school rather than trying to kiss them. I'd do something like mad or I'd be really naughty or I'd like clam on the top of the school and run across the roof of the school and do really stupid things and be, oh my God, yeah, Susie's funny and then no one would see that I was gay because I was being funny.

And then if you're funny, you get picked on less and people won't be thinking, hmm, what? Why is she a bit weird like that? Is there any part of your current practice as a comic which you feel is still defined by the kids you knew at school and your feelings about them? One of my preconceptions is always like, every time I have a really good gig,

a tiny part of me is thinking, oh, well done to you, you are continuing to prove something to some children that no longer exist. Yeah, I think that, you know, I mean, I think my desire to be liked, I mean, I definitely have a lot less of that on stage now and I'm a lot more comfortable in the fact that like

some people like, some people who don't, that's totally fine. But certainly, in the first sort of six, seven years of stand up, just desperate for the crowd to like me. Like me, like me, laugh, laugh, clap, make, reassure me that you like me so it doesn't feel like school. I'm just going to sit with that for a minute. Yeah, and that is... And I think that's why I hate being judged by comics.

By it, not comics, sorry, critics. Yeah. Because I'm, like, I find it difficult at the festival, because I don't read reviews. I just know the stars. But I need to know the stars. Because people are like, why don't you just not look at all? Like, oh, what I will say about myself,

what I can imagine someone writing about me is so much worse than what any critic will write. That I can make up like a story in my head of like, all these terrible things about myself, which aren't true. But, you know, I can do that. And I'm sure people have said that to you before on the podcast. But it's, it is that sort of, yeah, desire to be liked,

which is a strange thing because a lot of comedians have it and it is so abhorrent to an audience. And it interferes. It's an obstacle in the way of creativity. 100%. I remember in your, I remember seeing the branding for some, of your shows maybe three and four years ago. And I felt like you were experimenting with your positioning.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I talked a lot about class. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So the show that was like my, the first show where I was being me on stage was called Common. And it was like an investigation into my working class family, for want of a better words.

And I'm from a very working class family. It's a weird thing because I've got a bit of, I'm like, I don't sound super working class. Portsmouth is a really weird accent that's a mixture of... Yeah, right. It's a mixture of Devon and Cockney. Yeah, yeah, hang on. So the vowels are really weird.

So it doesn't necessarily read as really common. Sure. The show is about the fact that no one in my family has been to uni, not there's anything wrong with that, but everyone's a bricklayer, a labourer, a roofer, hairdresser, works in a shop, my dad buys and sells horses and lorries, and was a long-distance lorry driver for all of my childhood.

And I wanted to write a show about that because I realised that I was not surrounded by, but I was with a lot of people that had been to Oxbridge or that had been to a university and had this already felt like they had this sort of status in the world, whereas I always felt like I didn't quite know where I belonged. And so that was the first show, that was me really talking about my family.

I all of a sudden started writing really funny stuff because I stopped trying to be a different type of comedian. I just spoke about what I knew. So that show was common and I did that in the £5 fringe or the pay what you want fringe and I sort of gathered a little audience that really liked me and after the first week it was selling out or there would be cues of people paying what they want and it was the best fringe I'd ever had. I got really good reviews. I was getting four stars and I was just, like, you know, I was someone that had stars on their poster and I'd never had that before. And it was very nerve-wracking, but I loved it.

And then the next year I came back and did a show called Keeping It Classy. And that was about the fact that I live in a middle-class world and I'm probably middle-class now, but I still have a very working-class family. And who are we when we straddle two worlds, when we pretend to be someone to our family and then we pretend to be someone slightly different? And then who does that mean that we are

if we're always pretending to be someone different? And that show I then filmed for live from the BBC. And so that's a lot of the stand-up that's out there in the world that people can watch me doing is from that show. And then last year I sort of took on my mental health. I wanted to talk about anxiety. And I really enjoyed that show. And that show is about the fact that a lot of my anxiety comes from the lack of representation

of gay people in the media, or gay women specifically, in the media. And then this year I was like, I feel like I've done it. I feel like, what else have I got to say? What else have I got to say? And then I was like, oh, I'm happy. And then, honestly, my first thought was, oh, God. Oh, shit. Terrible.

Terrible. I've met a woman that I loved bits. We've got a nice life. We've got, I get to do what I love for a job. And all of my success has come from me. going, oh, I don't know. Oh, things have gone wrong. Oh, God.

Like, keeping it classy was a lot about me having my heart broken and feeling like I had to start again as a person because my heart was broke so into such smithereens that I couldn't quite work out who I was anymore without that relationship. And the week that the breakup happened, my nan also died. And it was this weird thing, and it was probably the best stand-up had ever written. And then this year, I was like, oh, God.

I'm happy. Does that mean I'm not funny? And then I thought, well, that's a show. I'm not sure what the question was, but that's the answer. How are you feeling about the next five years of shows in terms of subject matter? I don't know. I'm not coming back to Edinburgh next year. I feel creatively, I feel like I've said, I've done four years on the bounce,

and I feel like that's about my limit for shows. So I'll have a little break. I'll tour this show for a bit, hopefully for like a year in a bit. and then I'll not necessarily have a little break from stand-up, but I don't know, like, I mean, I talk about it in the show, I'm really hoping that Alice and I adopt. I feel like there'll be things to say about that. I feel like that's a story that's not heard a lot.

There are, you know, there are some people that are talking about that sort of thing, but certainly something that I, I wish there was more stuff out there about people that are adoptive families and that, you know, you've really got a hunt to find books about people that have adopted. I'm reading everything at the minute. And you do have to really seek it out. And so it would be lovely to be able to put something out there in the world about what that experience is like.

But I don't know, presumably things will happen and I'll write about them. Does that, is there an element where you're sort of thinking ahead and going, oh, if I talk about an adoption journey, then I've made the decision to tell my child that they're adopted. Oh, it's just given that you tell them now. Is that right? Yeah, like also, yeah, like, so you have, like, quite a lot of therapy when you begin talking about whether you're going to adopt. And it's very much from, you know, a baby from three years old. Adoption is like a word that you use all of the time so that it feels very normal in your home.

That's nice. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm certainly not thinking like, oh, great, I'll do a show about adoption, but I just mean whatever, maybe Alice and I won't adopt. Maybe we'll decide not to have children. Maybe who knows what will happen. I mean, I think that that's the road that we're going down. But I guess whatever's happening in my life, that'll be what I'm talking about.

Because I think there's sort of two types of comics, which are people, this sort of feel what's going on around them and tell you how they feel or they observe what's going on about them and tell you what they observe. And I'm definitely a feeler rather than observe that. That's really well put. My next question was going to be about, because the base of the spider diagram is always what's happened to me. And I'm the same deep down. I try sometimes to write an out there.

What's happening to them? I can't fucking write it. No, it's not. It's not for me. You know, that's not how my areas work. No, and that's the thing. That's what I was struggling with when I was first starting out.

And I think what a lot of people do, which one of these am I? You know, and often you're watching newer act and they'll sort of do a bit of observation and then a bit of me and then a bit of, and sometimes you can package it together and it will work. But for me, I'm definitely like a feeler. Like, this is how I feel.

This is what happened to me. This is what this did to me. And so I guess wherever I am in my life, It will be me talking about that. But I feel like this show is a really great example of where I am right now. And I would just hope to write another show like that. Last question. Yes.

If you were to review yourself. Oh, God. Honestly. What if I had to like review my show that I'm doing now? You know yourself as a comic. So let's say a club set. The type of, just the type of, the type of comic. that you are, if you were to critically review yourself and go, these are her strength,

these are her weaknesses. Okay. And there's no right way of doing this. No, I know. I'm interested in what it reveals the way you see yourself for good or bad. She brings like everything on stage with her. There's nothing that I'm scared of talking about. Her physicalities are really good.

Her voices and accents or characterisations. a very funny she's not reinventing the wheel but she's doing what she does very well so that was Susie oh man she's so great she is currently on tour with The Juggle that's her tour show you can find out all the dates

and more at Susie Ruffle.com of course we have extras exclusive extras with Susie you can get access to them by joining the Insiders Club on Patreon at patreon.com.com slash comcom pod Susie and I discuss the do's and don'ts of tour support That's some pretty inside the weeds, interesting tips in there. We'll find out about what makes a good director and the best advice she was ever given.