The Comment Section with Drew Afualo - OH IT’S EASY? THEN YOU DO IT Ft. Maren Morris | Episode 143

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

This week, Drew welcomes the iconic Maren Morris to the show! Maren and Drew talk about their shared past fighting battles against bigots on Twitter, what Maren loves about Nashville and staying in a city you care about to enact change, writing with MUNA and Jack Antonoff, getting rejected by music competition shows, honky-tonk bars, Maren’s new single “People Still Show Up” (out now everywhere) and so much more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in leading traditional coffee creamers. Two Good Creamers are available in sweet cream, roasted vanilla, and lavender. So which one are you trying first? Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. I am going to invite you and you cannot rescind it because it's on camera. I'll sing the middle at the reception. What do you want? The way I got chills on my spine?

The way I got butterflies. Marin? Okay. All right. Hey, everyone and welcome back to another episode of the comments section show starring me, your favorite. Everybody knows me. Who cares about me?

On to the guest. Before we get there, though, sorry, spooky season's over, but it's all right. We're back to Satan's School for Girls. Yeah, go ahead and clip that, all the men who fucking hate me. Anyways, on to the guests. Today, we have the iconic, the legendary, the ridiculously talented, Marin Morris. Woo! Welcome to the show.

Used to all the men that hate me. Amen. Amen. We're in a safe place. Yes, you're in good company with me here. Love. I'm so happy to have you. Honored to have you on the show.

I feel it's surreal seeing you in person. Same. The hours I've spent watching you on TikTok. I was going to say, me and Marin, we've been mutuals for a while. Yeah. For a minute. So I know that you think I'm funny. Yeah.

Which I do brag about and has been on my resume. Funny. Hope that's cool with you. I'm on there. Okay, cool. I'm just funny and like philosophical. And like even in my like worst like hours of like the last year, I was like I just like dive.

into your rants and they're just yeah I'm just like fuck yes someone said it and it's always you thank you i appreciate that marron and i am a huge fan of you i think you're so unbelievably talented and past your talent i really admire you for how convicted you are and your beliefs obviously because the specific niche of music that you make can be quite exclusionary sometimes but you've always been very upfront about being inclusive as a artist, which I love and admire about you. And I want to tell you before I forget. Thank you. Because I make so many weiner jokes that the serious shit just flies right out of my brand. I forget. I get it. So I have to tell you early. We can we can do both. We can do both. We can do both. Poor Colise-Lis-Oves. That means a lot. I think it's just,

it's becoming a little bit more, uh, it's not as niche to like have those opinions. And yeah, we can talk to each other on a more open, connected level now. So thankfully, I feel. I feel. I like that ages me a bit because like my first record was literally only in 2016 but there was no TikTok there wasn't even like Apple music yet it was just Spotify and iTunes and then you could like go by the CD at Target or Walmart but now it's like everything is so different and yeah it's just there's more channels of being able to like tell someone the full context of who you are totally not just through the channels of like the song or like a polished interview now it's just

way more about authenticity and not overthinking everything. Absolutely. And I do want to talk to you about that because I, well, first let's get into your lore because it's extensive. But I do, I'm familiar with it, but for those that are living under a rock and maybe haven't heard of you before or know or are familiar with your journey, can you talk about how you got into music like when it really like kind of took off for you? Yeah. Yeah. So of course. Yeah, I'm from Texas originally and outside of Dallas and Arlington, in Texas. I've been performing and playing in bars and honky tonks and kind of like cutting my teeth live music wise that way for, you know, since I was 11, 12 years old, which is shocks a lot of

people that I was playing in bars at that age. But I learned how to sign a bar tub, how to play for three hours for drunk people. How is that audience? I mean, there's a part of me that like would never do it again but then also it pisses me off that like these tic-tok artists that are like 17 will never have to go through that because i was like that really built some like hair skin and gumption and like you just are gonna fucking get through it and yeah and learning to just be background noise because you're not the center of attention yeah it's you're usually doing covers like it's you're not the star yeah but um you're also like as a songwriter witnessing a lot of mania, sexual detention, affairs, drunk people in bathrooms, like at a young age.

So as a, you know, I can only imagine. As a songwriter that started in country music, that was perfect fodder for that. But yeah, I've lived in Nashville, though, for almost 12 years. Okay. Moved there when I was 22 to like just write for other people. Yeah. And I didn't really want a record deal or to be an artist anymore. I was like, I had grown up doing that.

And so after that experience, you were kind of like, mm. Yeah, I was just burned out. Yeah, like I had burnout at like a very young age. And then Nashville kind of like put the gas in my tank again to like be creative. Oh, that's good. And like collaborate because I think I was so, like Texas is so big that the music scenes there are like, Dallas is so far away from Houston, which is so far away from Austin and San Antonio. And they all have their own niche music scenes.

So Nashville is like. the melting pot of everyone there as a transplant, kind of like L.A. Where it's just everyone's from somewhere else. You're all. There for a reason. Yeah, and mostly creative music reasons. And not everyone's there for like country music.

Like, you know, there's all types of genres going on there. But I would say the main, you know, export is like the mainstream country music world. Totally. I had like some mild success as a songwriter there. Like my first song that was recorded by another artist was Tim McGraw. and like, you know, oh, gee, like, that was a massive kick in the door for me, just credibility-wise on music rel, which is where all the, like, publishing houses are. And then, like, Kelly Clarkson recorded a song of mine, and that kind of opens up the, like,

pop world for me. So, yeah, and then I wrote this song out here, actually, in L.A. I was going through a breakup, and I wrote this song called My Church, and I just, like, had this kind of nausea of, like, I will be. be sick if someone records this that isn't me. Love. And I don't know. I just marked my territory on it and I found my manager Janet and we put this out on Spotify with no label, just did it ourselves. And within like two or three days it had like a million streams, which was unheard of at the time and like all the labels in Nashville are now like,

who the hell is this chick? Like and kind of like two labels ended up getting into like a bidding war over me. was able to like leverage that into like a pretty great recording deal and then I don't know like that was the first song I ever put out and so the rest was history as they say yeah that's what that's kind of what Megan Traynor said too like she was like I was writing for other people for a long time and then I wrote one that I was like I need to do this one like this one like this one's for me yeah I think actually she and I and I were at the same publishing house it was like a sort of smaller one called big big yellow dog and she I guess wrote all about that base yeah and then was like Like, I am the only one that can record this.

Yeah. So, yeah. Love her. Love her. And you have a very similar story. I love that. So after the initial, like, launch, like, how was it? Like, going kind of from being behind the scenes to now being completely front-facing and, like,

the future of country music, like, at the time. At the time. Yeah. I mean, it was daunting. I think I had been well prepared for it, though, just having had that background of performance. Well, that's good. And I was also 26 when my record came out. So I was already, like, a.

established in the way of like my frontal lobe was developed. That's T. I say that all the time. Every time I talk about it, I'm like, because I just turned 29, not too long ago. And I, every time I say that, people are like, damn, because everyone on TikTok is 11. So every time people who are my peers and make this number of money, they're like 17. And so whenever I talk about it, I'm like, I was an adult when I got this. I was in my mid-20s when I started doing this shit. So, like, I was grown.

So sometimes when people are like, how do you think so confidently about that? Well, first of all, I'm not. a child. Age. I think sometimes they just think I'm like 22, which I don't ever want to go back to that age. No, it was a nightmare. I'm cool with getting older.

Yeah, I like, obviously there are people that can, are well equipped to handle it young. Like, I mean, not very many of them though. I was going to say. Taylor Swift, maybe is the only one that's like started at 14, 15, became massively famous and never stopped being that big. Yeah. Just got bigger. Yeah.

And didn't like lose their mind. True. Or at least not in a way that we've seen. Yeah, truly. And it's hard not to. You've done it long enough now. I've barely been doing it for however long. And I'm not even kidding, like, two years into doing this.

I was like, I get why people go insane. Yeah. I get it. I have like... Women especially. Like, I totally get it. Yeah. There's like an annual...

And I prepare for it now. It's just annual like mini breakdown. Oh my God. Me too. Allow yourself the space to have one. Yeah, one huge one. Clear out the cobwebs. Yep, yep, yep.

And then you're okay. Yeah, I talk about it like expelling my venom like a snake. Like, I'll die. if I don't do it. No, you gotta get it out. So someone's got to really squeeze my goiter and spit it out. Otherwise, I'm gonna burn a city down. You know what I'm saying?

I'm gonna go full Godzilla. I'm like, I'll really burn down a hospital. It's in everyone's best interest I do it. Yeah. Sorry. Or I'll like burn myself down. Yeah. And then like, no, like no one can get anything from me.

So I was like, this is. I'm useless in that sense. Yeah. It can't work. Yeah. Yeah. So as long as you make space for like the annual breakdown, I think it's okay. And we should talk about it.

My sign's Aries. Okay. love that. I'm a Leo rising, which totally makes sense. Yeah. Libra Moon. So I never really identified with like Aries until my 20s where I was like, oh shit. I actually am extremely opinionated and stubborn and like shortfused. I love Aries people. What are you? I'm a Virgo. Okay. So I'm like, I'm real opposite in a lot of ways. Aries people, I always kind of summarize them as like, you know when you're driving a car? and you're kind of like, what if I just like off the road, killed everyone or whatever happens, happens?

Aries people are that thought, but if they did it. I hate that you're saying this. They're like, I'm sure it'll be fine. And most times it works out and it's fine. But that kind of uncertainty stresses me out as a Virgo. Like, I need plans and a structure and order. I told my therapist that once where I was like, I used to fantasize like in my teen years just about driving off the highway. And she's like, okay, we need to get into this then.

See me being a Virgo, I'm always right. Yeah. So you just clocked me. I feel like my soul slid out of my ass. That's why I said. Aries people give into that feeling. And I think that's why I get along with Aries really well, because I could never in a million years.

But like one of my best friends in college was in Aries. And so I always describe her as like, I never would have had fun or done like any of the cool shit I did. And if she wasn't in my life. Yeah. And she would have died if I wasn't in hers. So it works. Right.

We're good balance. Respect the toxic. Yeah. We get a good like balance of fun and staying alive. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

We need that. We need that. We need those people. Okay. So well, going back to your illustrious career. Yeah. Once you really start like establishing yourself as an artist and like a musician, when do you start noticing where you want to be more vocal about your beliefs and how you feel like as

far as ideologies go, especially considering you started in country? Like, how did you feel about that kind of transition? It happened pretty quick just because, at least in country music, I don't know if they still do it this way, but, you know, before streaming was sort of the main way we would consume music. Radio is still, like, extremely powerful, particularly in country. So we would do these things called radio tours, where the label would send an artist out for six weeks to six months and just go to like 150 stations around the country like you know we're

flying frontier we're flying southwest at like 5 a.m. We're staying in like you know comfort ends or worse um red roof ends yeah red roof plenty of those um I do like a hampton in okay I love a hampton yeah those beds are comfortable but you just go and plan these conference rooms for program directors or like their staff and you buy them lunch and um it's very bizarre and very old school and then you'll do like maybe two or three stations in a day and then you'll go out for dinner with them and it's always a steakhouse don't know why they always request a steakhouse and you're paying for it like it's going back on your deal is that just to get them to like play the song on the radio is it like trying to wine and dine them both i mean yeah it's it's it's very transactional yeah i will say like the

the nice people I met in radio, particularly always women, and, you know, had their own acts to grind within that world. Because it is, you know, again, very male-dominated. And so for me, that was always like a weird part of the job, but it was also like, I got to pay my dues. I don't want to complain. This is what everyone else has to do, including the men, artists. Like, so, you know, just like, get through it. And I remember, like, I was dealing with massive strep throat. throughout that entire year. I ended up having to get like a tonsillectomy because I was sick all the time from the travel.

Yeah. I bet. And so it was gnarly. But like obviously I ended up getting radio play. And obviously I do think like my songs had something to do with it too. Like duh. But also there's just a lot of ring kissing. But I think I noticed really quickly that I needed to be more vocal

and like state my boundaries beyond private and do it publicly. was I was at like a post show meet and greet. I was opening for Keith Urban and it was like the best tour. Like he's so lovely. The catering was fucking bomb. We talk about this catering like eight years later. That's how good it was. Well, because not every tour has it.

Oh, I bet. Yeah. But it was like such a cool learning experience. He's like so great with everyone he works with. But there was like a radio guy from the local station that came to my meet and greet after my set and was just super drunk probably on my labels dime or mine actually because it will go back to my account that I have to recoup but just got drunk before the show probably missed my entire set and then like wants to get photos after and he was just like really

handsy with me and this is one of luckily not that many times it happened to me I know plenty of friends of mine it's happened to way worse so mine was like I guess one of the lucky ones. But he was just super drunk and gross and like hanging all over me and giving a lot of like spouty opinions about what my next like single should be and how don't pick a ballad because people don't want to hear like sad women on the radio. And I was like, have you heard country music bitch? Like the whole thing is sad women. Well we all know Keith Irvin's all sunflowers and rainbows and nothing sad. But like the best country songs to me are like the hard hitting like real life. Isn't that the whole point of country? Yeah. It's really hit you in the field.

I know. I mean, Loretta Lynn literally has a song called The Pill. That's real life shit. And so whatever his skew of what I should be doing or what women should be looking or sounding like within the confines of the radio of country. It was just and also just, yeah, him being really inappropriate. I was like, this is, I got out safe on this one. But like I know plenty of women, friends of mine that happen and male friends too, male artist friends that have dealt with that shit. So, yeah, that's kind of when my light bulb turned on of like, we've got to stop, like,

normalizing this behavior. And there has to be a way to be able to be successful in this. Without having to deal with that. Yeah. Or stomach it. Yeah. So in order to avoid being blackballed. Yeah, which now, I mean, obviously, like, felt a little naive to even have that optimism

at the time. But, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of, like, boundaries. inconveniently that I've set up, you know, in the last decade. Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad you have. Especially, I feel like, too, that's another testament to women being so violently aware

of bullshit like that so much, a lot of times earlier than men do when they go through the same, like, a journey or career path. It's kind of like the Harvey Weinstein shit. Like, a lot of people knew already, but women told each other. Yeah. They said, hey, don't ever be alone with him. Don't ever, if you ever invite you. the way that women have to guard rail each other

because men are doing fucking shit to protect us. So we're like, okay, then we'll have to protect each other. I can't talk about him publicly because I'll never work again, so I'm just going to warn people behind closed doors. That shit's nuts. And it's prevalent in every part of entertainment. So I'm not surprised at all that it exists in music. Oh my God, the ditty stuff.

I know, shit. I mean, we don't even know like the tip of the iceberg of that one. Yeah, like the way that it spreads like a fucking poison is insane. Yeah. But that's why I'm glad. That's why I admire you so much because I feel like you have been very vocal about many things. And it is brave to do that. It's very scary.

Trust me, I fucking know. Right. To be like, especially when you say one thing, you become like almost like the spokesperson for that entire genre. Right. So now you're speaking for all of them, but you're like, I'm only speaking for me. I can't speak for anybody else. That's why I admire you so much for being so upfront about what you believe in, what you think is right. It's hard for people, especially women.

you know what I mean like doing and you're still here yeah I'm still doing fantastic yeah I mean it's thank you I mean I think what you were saying about you can't be because I did feel like I've even said this in an interview before I was just like I can't be the fucking like hall monitor all the time yeah for like people's bad behavior truly and like I you know I got off Twitter after a few too many like clapbacks um and it's like I never regret what I say, but it's also like, I have to take care of myself. It's exhausting. Yeah, and like just those fears of, you know, I have a four-year-old little boy and being doxed or like just anyone ever being like dangerous. Like it's happened. Just feeling unsafe. Like, I mean, I bring him

on the road with me and I don't show him or his face on social media. But like, yeah, just those things that I can do to protect him. But at the same time, like, if anything that I ever say comes back or like riots up these crazies. Yeah, yeah. Because there are some. And I've gotten into TIFs with like very public people. Yeah. You're telling me.

Yeah. You and me both, man. Yeah, yeah. It's like you're sending up almost like the bat signal on yourself to be, you know, abused. And so death threats like this and that. Like that stuff is very real. Like everything seems like it's only existing within the confines of a Wi-Fi. connection but like it's you know when it gets real and things are being sent to your house and shit

like that it's like yeah you do have to kind of figure out ways to maintain your morality and like do that publicly and keep that bravery but also there are certain things where it's like I don't need to shoot this off on Twitter I girl I've only learned the hard way me me too same honestly that's why I relate so heavily to what you're talking about especially yeah but like you only you do it like truly when someone's being like crazy out of pocket like I I downloaded Twitter back to watch the pearl stuff unfold with you yeah because I was like you're just so well you're well you're well-spoken and you also have like an acid tongue and like it's just so and you do it within the like however many characters they allow no period yeah they really they really they really fucked up

giving me more than 140 on Twitter yeah I deleted my Twitter too though transparently um just because like you said there has to be a balance at some point like obviously for me like this this greatness was thrust upon me in the sense of like the mantle they gave me was I did not ask for that nor did I think that was going to be the case I'm happy to do it even sometimes like when I get I get criticism all the time but especially from people that are like well I just think there's better ways to do it and sometimes I tell I tell them I'm like then fucking do it right tag in bitch I'm lonely out here what the fuck I am fighting by myself I am doddling an army of Alone. I'm John Snow. Where are the Allies? I know. I mean, the bastards. I'm like,

Where are the Knights of the Bail? Yeah, exactly. I'm just alone. I'm being suffocated under hundreds of bodies. Like, and that's, uh, it is a mantle you carry it. Like, I totally get what you're saying as far as like, you become a patrol. And then it's like, that's all I ever do. And then on top of that, that's all I'm ever consuming. Like, I had to, I had to kind of like start discerning what I did and didn't want to talk about because there are certain things that are just too horrible the platform and I refuse to. Yeah. And there are men that I've fucked up before in a silly way and then I found out they like genuinely are evil to their core. And I refuse to talk about them anymore because I'm not giving, I'm not breathing life into that name on my platform anymore.

For sure. People like if you really want people to disappear, you have to de-platform them. You have to ignore them like and pretend they're dead. So that's what I do. I've done that well with a woman but yeah. Oh me too. I did that with that woman that you just. I did that one too. When I got engaged, they were like, I wonder what Pearl thinks. I don't give a fuck what she thinks. I don't care what she thinks about literally anything at all ever, but especially me. I don't care. No, and they're just like begging for the like engagement.

You kind of realize how powerful you are though because you're like when I stop engaging, even if it's not with a specific person, but even a platform. Yeah, it like it kicks up. And you realize you like trade it up too because it's like, okay, you traded the like stress of Twitter or X for like, like a New York Times best-selling book. Amen. That's your channel now. Like, do that.

I know. That Twitter calls to me like the green goblin mask. You know what I'm saying? Like whispers. And I'm like, I know, I know. But mostly, honestly, the only reason I felt like that about Twitter

was because on Twitter, I really could be mean there. Yeah. See, like when I'm finding out on TikTok, that's me fighting with two hands type on my back. If they really let me, these people would never show their face in public ever again.

Yeah, we're going into the gutter. Right. Yeah. But Twitter is such a hellscape that I can say whatever I want on there and that's not a good thing. Yeah, yeah. So that's actually really bad. We need to be regulated a little bit, just a tiny bit.

I need a little bit of a leash. I'll admit it. Sure, of course I do. It's so true. Like, I, when I re-downloaded it for your discourse. To watch my fight. I hadn't been on in like three years. And so after Elon took over it, I was like, this is insanity on here.

And it's nasty and it's gross. And I had like a burner account and I was like, I can't be on here. Like what the hell am I watching? It's just like porn clips and like AI crazy. I know. It's just insane. It's gross over there. I know.

It's going down and it's going down fast. I'm glad you, I'm glad you deleted. Yeah, I got out while the building was burning, you know? Yeah, that's good. I went out on top, I'd say. That's when you have to know when to fold them. Yeah.

Just get out right after you bested a bitch. Well, that's why I think you're fantastic in that sense too, because it's one of those I feel like, and I'm sure you agree with the sentiment too, where there's a certain levels where I'm like, yeah, debating with you is not going to give me anything because you want to go viral and you can't do it without me. And then on top of that, like, you just are committed to misunderstanding me. Because every time I like the three times a year, I'm like trying to be serious in the shit I'm saying.

Like I'm not telling them mean jokes about what they look like. The three times I do it, they're always like, well, then you should invite me on your show and debate me. Why the fuck would I do that? Yeah. Who's that benefiting? Yeah, girl, what do I get out of that other than psorias? Like, my scalp itches when you get near me. I don't want you near me.

I know. I'm going to catch something. Yeah, no, it's too. I think you being like, yeah, I don't need to engage with this anymore. There's power in that. There's autonomy in that, which I love. There is. And I think, like, they only kind of gain notoriety.

Notary. Sounded so Southern just now. Notaryity. They only gain that through, yeah, exactly like you said, your engagement. And you just realize, like, how powerful. your pen is or your your statements are and that like is scary as hell because it's like I didn't realize what I was saying meant this much but I guess it does and it like really starts to pick up traction with like tabloids or like just stupid press outlets and you're like oh my god like that was just it was literally a tweet

and it was a passing moment but now it's like I still look back at everything and I'm like I stand by everything I said me but I it's yeah there's no regret like the intention was absolutely correct yeah no I meant what I said I just like I don't need to say it anymore or ever like speak to you again yeah so yeah just enjoy that life but um no it's it does get exhausting but I there's such a like liberation from it too because it's like I've had to walk away from a lot of toxic things in my life like even recently it's just um bubbling up into a lot of like identity things too with my like genre of music and the things I love about country music,

like the lyrical realness, the songwriting, integrity, my community in Nashville too, which is still very much there. Like, I write a lot out here in L.A., but my close friends, the people that I built something in a sound with are Nashville-based.

So, and it's very, like, this is the thing, too, not that I want any more people, like coming to Nashville because it's, like, getting so crazy. But it's such a melting pot that, like, everyone's, just it is progressive and I feel like it's it gets this bad rap because it's kind of steeped in a lot of

these conservative ideals and like misogyny racism like that's all obviously very much still there and not just Nashville like you know everywhere but I think uh there's still something about that place that like I have not pulled the plug on and it like keeps me there because it's like I was talking to um it was like at the gladder. awards last summer. I was getting an award and so was Jonathan Van Ness and... Love JV. I know.

They've been on the show too. We love them. I know. They live in Austin, Texas now and I was like, why? Like I love Austin. Yeah. I mean... I think that too when I see their posts.

I know. And I'm from Texas. Austin's like one of my favorite cities in the world. But just knowing Jonathan's lived in like L.A., New York. I was like, you chose to live in Austin. Why? And they were like, well, we shot a C. season of Queer Eye there.

I fell in love with the city. And they were like, I just feel like I, I can affect more change living in the state where these laws and are actively abusive than living in a city where it's extremely progressive. Everyone kind of like votes and thinks the same as you for the most part, which is like, I totally get that too. It's like you want to flock to a city of safety. Yeah, that's absolutely fair.

But I think that kind of what JVN said about that, I was like, I think that's what keeps me in Nashville too. Yeah, totally. It's like I feel like there's a community there that's like building and building. Yeah. And we need to have like allies there to keep it building. Absolutely. If we all like become expats and live in New York and London or L.A. Yeah, you lose.

You lose really beautiful places that were meant for something more than that. Yeah. They've over time evolved. into something that feels very exclusionary and very bigoted, which is not our fault who are existing currently right now, right, who actively want to change them, don't want it to be the case. But I think that's a powerful thing too, like wanting to show people all the wonderful, beautiful parts of Nashville

as opposed to what it's become known for. Sure. Which is, again, I think that's a powerful thing too. I think it's important. And I've talked about that before when people ask me, like, oh, like, do you think there's any hope for change? Like, do you think that like men are going to change and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, well, none of the men I sit are going to fucking change.

I can promise you that. They're going to die that way. But that's besides the point. I was like, I don't think change will come from people who inherently hate minorities or marginalized people just all of a sudden turning on a light. I think what's going to change is we build something new. That's what changes. And we leave them to die out.

Like their bloodlines should stop and we should leave them to die. Yeah. And then we should focus on each other. And we should focus on building community within each other. and we should grab all the people on the fringe. People who are at risk of tipping to that side. Those are people you can get. You can't get people who've made up their mind.

I know. So I feel like that's how you feel about Nashville. It's like, well, I'm going to let those people die out, but I'm going to carve out something new. Yeah. That will focus on what I love about Nashville and what you love about country music. Because country music is beautiful. I don't know a lot about it, but it is beautiful.

Well, it is. And there's such a huge fan base that's younger now for it, which, like, there's really happened in the lot of, couple of years but living in Nashville I think like um like Gen Z Gen Alpha like you know I have a four year old so it's like I think also the other thing about community is like the kids that are being raised in that that bubble which is in the south or whatever like it's like people are getting I think smarter and more um aware aware and like kinder yes we have to like keep a grip on you know just everything being social media based and like everything being instantaneous but I do think uh what like

the the good parts of that have been that we can talk to each other we can see someone's point of view that lives you know thousands of miles away totally there's there's like a gift in that there's obviously downsides too but I think that's it's made uh I mean my son's not on any sort of platform but like he's he's so kind and empathetic and like that obviously comes from like my my ex and myself but and like his community, but that gives me hope because it's like, totally. Okay. Absolutely. You're a little kid, you know, you're privileged, like, because of me.

Yeah. And like, but you are growing up in this town. To be a good person. Yeah, and it just, he's traveling a lot. He tours with me and there's just something about that that makes me feel like, okay, maybe it's going to be okay. Let's talk about hate. You get a lot of hate?

I have. I know you did when you were leading crusades. I'm a fan. I remember. Yeah. A lot of, as far as an artist. A lot of hate. Yeah, sure, because it's like the squeaky wheel.

Yeah. But I think also it brought a lot of love in too. Because it's just people that had no idea that maybe you would never listen to country music were like, wait a second. I'm not even kidding. I do remember when you were getting in public beefs on Twitter and shit, like standing up for people. I remember people saying like, which I thought was funny and which is what made me like you, which was, they would say, I did not know that she was with the shits like that. not know that they were doing it like that over there in country music. Yeah.

Which I think it's hilarious. I think that's so wonderful. Thanks. You're like opening people's perspectives. Yeah, there's a good, good few of us doing that in Nashville. But like, yeah, it certainly, it definitely opened up a lot of channels of like crazies and, you know, the Tucker Carlson thing. Yeah. And like some other bitches I won't name.

But I, yeah, I was just like, that's interesting. But also it's just, it kind of levels out the playing field. field and you're like, okay, I've never been called this and now I have and I survived. I think I'm going to be okay. I think it's going to be okay. Yeah. Well, let's transition quickly into your new music. I would love for you to tell us about the new music, how it's going. Yeah. And what people can expect and what they can be excited to hear from you. Ms. Marin Morris. Yes. So I put an EPO like two months ago or so called Intermission. It's just like five songs. I'm working on a full album, but I have this song that I wrote actually last year with my friends, Laura Veltz and Jack Antonoff.

And I-Janktonoff, obviously, everyone. Ever heard of him? Ever heard of him? He's a small indie artist. Yeah, yeah. Hope he makes it big one day. He works with a couple women, you wouldn't know him. Yeah, well, he makes it big.

I'm praying for him. Me too. Hard times. Yeah, yeah. It's so hard being him. But, yeah, he's the best. And I wanted to put that out like a long time ago, but I was like, something about right now just feel, it's called people still show up. And that is, that's never been more true than this particularly year for me because I went through like a lot of shit on the personal end and professionally, just a lot of changes.

And I just realized like my world got smaller in terms of like I didn't need as many people in it to feel whole. Yeah, like kind of downsized. But I was just like, wow. it's all quality people it's all quality experiences conversations even if I don't remember all of them like we we showed up for each other they showed up for me it's also like for my my fans like coming to shows like it's you know on a year I didn't put an album out still coming to shows this summer I was like y'all have been supportive as fuck so I was like this song is for you but yeah um and

I'm just finishing this record and very exciting yeah what are you looking forward to as far as your career down the line like are there any collaborations that you would like love to see or you maybe can tease if you feel so inclined it's up to you i mean like obviously i would love to make another record with um my band the high women uh which is like me brandy carlyle uh natalie humbi and amanda shires uh if we ever like are in the same city again we will make that happen but um i think for me i just want to like be able to tour and um you know I've kind of changed labels in the last year and it just all feels reset for me right now, which is scary as hell.

Exactly. I love that though. But it's cool. It's like I, nothing scares me anymore. I've kind of been through it all. And I like this sort of like fresh reset phase of like I'm working with a lot of random people that I love and I'm fans of and it just makes me so happy. I wrote a song with Muna that came out online.

We love Moona here. Yeah, the best. We're a big lesbian-filled house, so we love Luna here. Luna knows we love them. Yes. Always and forever. Incredible songwriters, like, obviously,

and then Naomi is just a badass producer. Yeah. So, um, they're so crazy talented. It's crazy. I know. And also just like hilarious. Yeah, it's annoying. They're too talented.

Knock it off, Luna. That's a warning. Yeah, it's like we, we'll write the song, but then it's like almost like the. songs not the priority that day it's like just about the hang yeah yeah that doesn't surprise me you have to like remind each other like oh shit like we should probably write something yeah we just like yammer on right but yeah they're too funny i love that how exciting oh my gosh all my fans who are gay which is all of them um they're all gonna freak out when they hear that oh my gosh how exciting okay

oh well i do want to ask you this like as far as when it comes to like melding the worlds of like your personal beliefs and ideologies and your music and then having very real fear. Like if, oh, what if this, you know, alienates an audience? What if this makes people not like me or not want to buy my stuff or stream my art or whatever? For people who maybe are struggling with that kind of like mentality, what would you say is your best piece of advice for them, especially if they're women and if they identify as anything marginalized?

They're already kind of working against an uphill battle. So I think that's another reason why a lot of people are like, oh, I don't want to talk about politics. I don't want to talk about like what I believe in because I don't want, you know, sometimes labels or brands or agencies they make you kind of not show certain parts of yourself so that you don't alienate anyone or a consumer. So what would you say is your best piece of advice for those ones? I mean, if you are anyone but like a white, cis straight male,

like your existence is inherently political and politicized. Tell them. There is no escape from that. I think, you know, I'm like a privileged white woman, but in the strictures of country music, there are like, obviously, uphill battles being a woman. Absolutely. Still are. Like, any radio play, like, it's still extremely slanted.

Like, it's not in the favor of us. So I just think at your own peril or risk, like, you are going to go against things that make your skin thicker and you will get an armor over time. but you don't know until you go. And like, I think for me, I never set out to be like this activist artist. It was just, and I still write songs that are just like relationship songs.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Songs about like a one night stand, like whatever. But like, of course I've gone there on songs too where it's like I want this to, this is meaningful to me. And this goes beyond like just the surface level worldly relationships. Like this is something that, like I wrote a song years ago called Better Than We Found it after George Floyd's murder and it was really just a song I wanted to dedicate to my son who was like eight months old at the time and it was just a really important song for me to put

out and of course I could have sat on it it could have sat in my inbox for years but like it really meant a lot to people and it meant a lot to me and like it ended up getting like a Grammy nomination and you just don't know until you like go for it and totally but I also I'll never like judge people for being afraid because it's fucking scary it is yeah to put yourself out there I agree especially if you're like you were saying you were playing in bars for years and like you know wanting to be an artist or or just be able to put your art out there a lot of times all my friends who are musicians like they never planned on ever like being famous like they just wanted to make art and it worked it worked out but then I I feel like too at the same time obviously I'm just

a dickhead online and my my thing is antagonizing me I go in a nice swing on people who are not looking at me all the time. But I always feel like if this is like everything you work towards, like you work so hard to build your career and something like putting out a song like that could very well unravel all of it. But I always think like what is

even the point of having it if I'm not going to use it to do something. Like to do something good. Like to put something in the world or leave something behind that is good inherently or is meant for good intention people. So it's like I don't, if that's what it costs, like if it costs me sacrificing pieces of myself that I believe in or I feel very strongly about I don't want it. Like I don't want the fame.

I don't want the money. I don't want any of it if it means I have to like hide certain pieces. So that's why I said I really admire you for doing that. And you being a white woman is it's very important that women who look like you do the same thing. It's like it's just like when I stand up or you stand up for trans women. It's important that cis women are fighting alongside them. It's important that we check each other.

that we clock each other and we tell each other like it's important that we believe in these things and we talk about them openly too because it matters yeah because no one's free until we're all free i know i mean so i i admire you for that i think it's i think it's fantastic and the fact that you continue to do it i truly believe just like just like meg and trainer i truly believe good people are rare and that's why you've lasted this long like that's what you're doing so well thank you give you more flowers i'll give them all to you marron no that means so much i mean like you've just like a really brilliant way of well obviously speaking to your audience but also growing an audience because of your honesty but also the way that you articulate even if it's like you're eviscerating

someone you're doing it from a place of like the building blocks of the educational purpose of it so that's really fucking hard to do and I speak as someone that doesn't do it well like I am extremely emotional and like I should have taken like debate team in high school or something so I could properly form a sentence in person with people like just if I'm angry I feel you I just cry yeah I feel you so Twitter that's why Twitter was always like it's good for you I know it's like I can do this and like think about what my words are but like no it's like a really once in a generational type of thing that you've created and it's like as someone that's like always consumed media like I I like grew up on Brittany and Christina and like I was like this kind of pop cultural thing of

creators like you. There's a lot of people making incredible content, but also like figuring out how to like do it in a really succinct impactful way. Thank you. That's not distracted. It's like extremely laser focused. Thank you. It's just very inspiring.

That's very sweet. Thank you so much. Yeah, sometimes I describe it as like like when you have to give your dog pills, put it in cheese and give it to them. Oh my God. So I do it. See, like you just learned it perfectly. I'm like, come here, I'm going to give you this pill, but don't worry, it's going to taste good.

And then you'll be healthy and everyone will, it'll be fine. But I always tell people too, I'm like, I know if I'm your introduction to intersectional feminism, I think that's fantastic. I think it's wonderful. And I always say, please don't stop with me. Yeah. There are far more people that are far more educated than I and far more, like, equipped to explain things to you in a much more historical and factual way.

My way is telling people to suck my wiener. Sure. That works for you, period. works for me too. You're the gateway drug. There you go. That's how I said. You just start with,

don't stop with me. You can start with me. You just don't stop with me. But I really do appreciate that. And I appreciate your fucking artistry. I think you're just, I think you're so fantastic. And I think honestly,

a lot of times women who write, like write music for a long time, period. You guys are some of the most genius women alive, first of all. That's all. Like, the way your brain works, I envy that. I have no musical capabilities whatsoever.

I got nothing. I got nothing. God said, give that bitch funny and that's it. Yeah. So that's what he gave me. And I'm like, well, I can make you laugh. That's sure. I can't, I can't romance you with a song.

Yeah, but it's still like a creative thing too because it's like some days I've got nothing. Like sometimes my brain deletes and like I forget how to write a song. Like I just, it's everything is overthought and awful. And like you just have to accept that those are the days where you're like, oh, this was just like a chicken shit day. It just sucks. I suck.

Especially when you're writing with Muna. they're too distracting. Yeah. Talented. Well, I think God Katie's here to write some words because my brain's mush. I'm just going to be the singer today. Yeah. For real.

Okay. So to wrap us, I will say just for some closing thoughts for anyone who's listening, any sort of aspiring, just I would say just musician in general, not having to do with beliefs or ideology or anything like that. Do you have any, I know being an artist, I feel like especially like you said with TikTok, a lot of people are kind of taking Rainbow Road a little bit. out the part where they get to kind of cut their teeth like you were saying earlier. So for any up and coming artists or musicians or writers or anything like that, do you have any

advice for them? Entering this new kind of world of music, it's kind of shifted like you said. Yeah. Yeah. And I have like so much, you know, sympathy for that too because I'm lucky I got in before all of that was the only platform. But I would just say, like I know this is extremely, you know, banal advice at this point. but you just have got to be patient because if you believe in your thing and almost you have to be

delusional like you have to I tell people about all the time I say that too I mean that's the word for it but like you can say like ambitious or whatever but you're delusional yeah you have to have like a sparkle of that like you always know when someone has too much and you're like okay my god you want this too bad people can smell it yeah for real no just be patient because like, you know, if you're making music in your bedroom in like the Midwest or if you're moving to L.A. or Nashville or wherever, you just have to like swallow that pride of like there are a lot of fucking talented people in front of you in the line. Yeah. And like if you are good and you keep practicing and showing up and not being fucking late, not flaking, like whether you write alone or with other people or whatever you want to do, I'm just really kind of talking about songwriters. but our artists.

It's like you've got to grow your thing and find ways, of course, creatively to set it apart. But like just it's okay if it doesn't happen this year. Like overnight. Yeah, because like for me, I've gone through ebbs and flows in my career. Like it's been 10 years more so if you count like my teenage years of touring. But like I've had moments where I've had like massive hits that year. And then I've had like years where there hasn't.

been one. Yeah. And but I can tour and like I can build a fan base over time and like have something identity wise to say and like a connection with them that goes beyond a big fucking song on TikTok or the chart. Like you have to build overtime and that is when you start to see artists have like decades long careers. No for real. And honestly when chapel was on she's like some people I hate the industry plant shit. And she's like because I've been doing this for 10 years. I got signed when I was like like 14. Yeah. And I was like, I know, I know that about you, but she's, but because people see her on TikTok, they're like, oh my God, just like overnight, everyone's talking about her. Well, everyone's overnight until, like, if you haven't heard of them. So it's like, there's

always a backstory. I said that about my book when men were discrediting me getting a bestseller. They were saying like, oh, everyone's a bestseller. I go, you know why you think that? Because you don't fucking read. Yeah. Yeah. The only books you hear about are bestsellers, aren't they? Yeah. You're hearing about my book. Yeah. That's because you don't fucking read, bitch. So like, You're like, don't worry, there's an audio book for you. Yeah. And I was like, I was like, oh, that's, for real, you fucking illiterate bitch. On top of that, though, I'm like, on top of that, the fucking book thing, I'm like, okay, well, if it's so easy, you go do it.

Yeah. Let me know how it works out. Yeah. If it's so easy. Apparently, it's so easy. According to men who never read, can barely read and got scared to get called out in class to read. Apparently, it's super easy. So I went on a book tour that whole summer.

And every time I talked about it, my sister was like, which is super easy. so no one should clap. It's like super fucking easy. Don't worry about it. It's not impressive. It's so true. It's really easy. You just go out there and do it.

That's why everyone does it. That's why they're like, oh, it's so easy what she does. Yeah. And you're like, okay. Then you go do it. I know. I also get what you mean too about like,

there's a lot of talented people in the world. I think that all the time too. That's why I think people like you have such long careers and like establish such like strong roots because you're a good person and you're really fucking good at what you do. Like it's just it's impossible to not see you. That's what I always. think like that's operating from I think a scarcity mindset when people are like oh like what about

this what about that I always think I'm gonna shine regardless so all the talented people let's all go together yeah let's let's link arms and I listen I go through that too everyone does it's human like the scarcity thing or just like feeling an envy like because it's happening for your friend and not you like that's normal and that's you just have to like hunker down again for like the ebb and the flow Like, if you are constantly, like, anvil on the gas pedal, you're going to burn out really quick. Yeah. You're not going to keep people around. You're going to, like, probably crumble yourself, like, you know, mentally.

Yeah. And there's just no longevity in the short game. So for me, this is why I've said, like, I'm glad American Idol and the voice and, like, all these competitions, like, rejected me. Like, when I auditioned in 19 years. You listing all of them? There's, like, 10. There's probably more I haven't mentioned. But I was like, thank God.

Yeah. There's quite a few, I think, like you. I would have burned through it. Like, I would have gotten so over it. And then like, I wouldn't have been ready, talent-wise or mentally. Yeah. So it's kind of like if you have this massive fucking TikTok moment. Yeah.

It's like amazing. And people are like, they've got eyes on you. Then it's like, what's next? Yeah. Dance. Like, you have to. You have to dance. Yeah.

We have to be wearing matching outfits. And now you have to create a dance. Yeah, yeah. Literally. My, one of my first, when I first, when I first blew up, a brand reached out to me. I don't even remember what it was. And they were like, oh, if we want to work with Drew and we're like, okay, cool. Like my agent's kind of talking to them. And they were like, yeah, we're doing this TikTok dance and like this is what it is. And they sent it to me. And my agent

didn't really know me that well at the time because we'd only been working together for a couple months. And she was like, how do you feel about this? I was like, oh, no, no. Yeah. I don't do that. So no, no, no, no. Tell them thank you. Peace and blessings on your household. No, thank you. Yeah. If I'm doing it in no shade, but if I'm doing it, it's as a joke. That's what I mean. Yeah. That's what I'm saying for money? I'm drunk and I'm with my friends.

It's for funsies. Yeah. Funzies, that's different. That been said, for the right amount of money, would I do it? I don't know. It's not off the table. Let me know. For enough zeros, maybe.

Let us know. Yeah, let us know. Let me and Marin know. Okay, so we'll wrap really quickly, but I want to thank you very much for coming on the show. I think you're just fucking fantastic. Oh, my God. Same.

I'm obsessed with you. Same. I'm so excited. Well, everything you're doing, the best seller thing was, was like such a massive win for you, but also like for all of us that are fans. It's like we get to celebrate it with you. And then also, congrats on your engagement. Oh my gosh.

You guys are. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh my God. That's so crazy. How did you know? I'm waiting for my invitation in the mail.

Marin Morris, if you want to come to my wedding, I am going to invite you and you cannot rescind it because it's on camera. So I'll, I'll sing the middle at the reception. What do you want? The way I got chills on my spine? The way I got butterflies. Okay. All right.

I'm assuming for free verbal contract binding. Your team is here. Thank you very much. I appreciate you all. But thank you for coming on the show. I think you're fucking awesome. And I can't wait to see what you do. I'm so excited for your new music.

Thank you. And she sent me a sneak peek of it. Suckers. Yeah, I listen to it. Not you, sucker. So you need to get into it. But for those that are born yesterday, and haven't met you or heard of you.

Well, obviously none of you have met her. I've met her. Again, sucker. Where can everybody find you? All the normal shit. Marin Morris on literally everything, and then any music or anything you want to plug. My song, people still show ups out.

Yeah, go listen to it. There's probably not going to be a dance from me on it. But someone make one. Yeah, go for it. I will promote it, but I'm not the girl. Not the girl to ask for that But you can listen to it on Spotify Our favorite platform

You can listen to this episode with Marin And then you can go listen to all of her discography It's extensive and fantastic and wonderful But thank you so much for coming on this show Thank you all for tuning in to this week's episode Of the comments section Don't forget new episodes drop every Wednesday You can stream the audio on all streaming platforms

Or you can watch the video for free And exclusively on our favorite platform Spotify Right after you listen to all of Marin's music On a loop for at least an hour That's an order. That's homework, all right? Thank you so much for coming. Thank you all for watching, and I'll see you next week. Bye.