The Comment Section with Drew Afualo - WE'RE PEOPLE GIRLS Ft. Dylan Mulvaney | Episode 160

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Dylan Mulvaney returns to the show this week!! A lot has happened in Dylan’s life since she was last on the podcast almost three years ago, and she unpacks it all with Drew in an episode that covers broadway musicals, ayahuasca in Peru, glee club, jet skiing, gay cruises, running into Trixie Mattel at the DMV, and so much more. Dylan’s new book Paper Doll: Notes from a Late Bloomer is out now! Shop Billie in-store and at https://www.mybillie.com Dylan IG: https://www.instagram.com/dylanmulvaney/ Dylan Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney Follow The Comment Section on IG! https://www.instagram.com/thecommentsection/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey everyone and welcome back to another episode of the comment section show. Sorry, me, your favorite. Everybody knows me who cares about me. On to the guest. Today, we have another. iconic all-star episode for you all the one the only the talented the beautiful they published Dylan Maldaney hey are you ready sounds like I'm introducing you at WWE I'm I mean that's what 2025 is baby right it's mayhem that's

where we're going to go next we're to take another another thing I can't wait I brought you a little something oh my gosh please let's see it you ever tried a percy pig I've never had one okay so these are from the UK where we're inevitably going to have to move when shit becomes hammeets tail good say guvna all right for audio listeners I'm currently taking a per C-pig suite I'm gonna eat it on camera

ASMR ASMR yeah you've never had anything like it you like a they call them fizzies but you like sour? Yeah they say sour is fizzy this just made so much saliva on my mouth that's crazy right it's really good there's nothing like it in America

I think it's because there's less processed stuff but I like processed stuff I prefer it Me too. You know what's funny is that's from the UK and I was starting to war with them over their food when I went over to London for the first time. But it was their hot cuisine, not their snacks. I'm a big fan of their snacks. I think they nailed snacks. But but like the warm stuff. Yeah. Bad. Yeah, they're pissing me off a little bit. I eat Chipotle over there every day. I'm not getting like and that's actually so real. It's so healthy for me. And I yeah, you do kind of eat like Buddy the elf. So bad. A little bit. Yeah. And I've got, well, actually the one healthy thing, I did bring my own B-Y-O-B, which was a grapezevia. That's true.

That's what's in here. And she brought me one too. I brought it to my room. But it does throw me with drinking grape soda that isn't purple. Right. Because that should also. Processed. Thank you.

Yeah. And, but these pair really well together. Also recommend the hot rolled chips from Trader Joe's with this. Yes. That's a full meal. Right. And I think if we could just be sending me the Trader Joe's chips. I'm getting a place in the UK.

I'm going to go over there for a while. You thrive over there in Europe in general. The dating. You're a European girl, I feel like. Oh my God. The dual citizenship, the babies with accents. It's all happening. It's all happening. Life comes out of you fast. And then me having to fly back in 50

years because we're going to host like fashion police with like Teffi when we're like 75 years old. Absolutely. When we're even more annoying. I can see it now. I see our future and it is so bright. I can see it so clearly. So clear. When I was like really jogging out the Brits for their cuisine.

It was mostly just like an English breakfast because I was really excited to try one. And yeah, the beans I think are trash. But like it's everything else. I'm trying to go over there now and be accepted. You're about to really mess this up. Before you go, let me say something. Are we still not dropping the F bomb on this one? No, you can.

Oh, fuck yeah. Wait, I have so much we have to catch up on with you. I have not been on this show since like day 173. Girl, and that's an exact date. I know. That really takes me back. We aren't, we aren't counting anymore. No longer.

You said days of girlhood? I've heard that name of so long. These are the days. Bitch. A lot has happened since I saw you. It has. Let's catch up. Okay.

What's new? What's tea with you other than the brunette hair? You know, trans rights are not looking so hot. Right. Oh my God, I was supposed to go on a date last night. And I left really popping around here, ADHD, baby. Welcome. I was supposed to go on a date and we matched on Raya.

He's from Sweden, actually. Okay, too. So you're from Sweden? Me? Did you say same? No, I said tea. Oh, I was like, wow. Do I look like a friend?

So then he was like, I didn't want to give him a whole night so I said we can get a drink after my dinner with friends. So I go to the dinner with friends, isn't responding. I get in the car home, didn't hear from him, I'm home. He says, okay, let's meet up. And then I said, it's not worth it. Right, period. Because I'm not going to go out of my way. Absolutely.

And I'm happy for you. That's kind of what I've learned since being on this podcast. Hell yeah, bitch. I'm not going to go out of my way for me. No, and why would you? He wasn't going out of his way to be mindful of timing. No, he had hours to respond on that app. And you're all right.

You're so lucky. You don't have to be on there. I know. Scariest place. I'm counting my blessings. Trust me, I am. Oh, my God. Wait.

Engaged? Oh, yes. Honey. Since then, we're engaged. Oh, I know. That's a beautiful ring. Wow. Did a great job.

Last time I saw you was Megan Trainor concert. Yes. We were both at Megan Trainor's concert. I got a concert or I got a shout out with Jojo C-Wo. She was like, do you remember all that base? She's like, oh my God, Jojo. Dylan! I was like, yeah, Megan didn't shout me out.

Thanks, Megan. Yeah, fuck. I appreciate you. No, but she did let me bring 10 people. So give and take. You do sometimes bring a crew. I brought multiple books knowing that the family would be here. It's true. Dylan brought a book for each of us.

Yeah, had to. Had to. I love that. That's becoming a moniker for me. I do want to talk about your one woman show. Oh, my God. Because I'm so fucking happy for you, but I would love to know how that came about. Okay, well, I was at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Yes. I was feeling very sad following Beergate, which also, like, randomly happened while since doing this pod. I know. We've lived a thousand lives since the last time. I mean, a lot has happened. So I knew that I wanted to get back into theater. That was where I started.

It's my favorite thing in the world. But I knew that if I had written a show, especially if it was like going to talk about parts of my life or transness, that people like the media would probably just tear it apart. So I needed to find a safe place. And that was the Edinburgh French Festival. Will you say Edinburgh for me? Edinburgh. Nice.

That's so close. Right. And so I was like I feel like Scotland. I'm going to go. I had never been there. I'm also the type where like I if I want to learn yoga, I'm just going to become a teacher. Or like if I'm going to your full method acting. Yes.

Like I didn't know at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. I'm going to go do a show there and we'll figure it out. And it's like Disneyland, babe. I mean, I was I was sleeping with the hardest people. I would do it was baby reindeer, all the good parts of Baby Rander. I was, it was like I would have my show. My show was at 10 p.m. I'd go out to the fun bar afterwards, my tiny little dresses.

Right. And then also it's funny. I'm doing a lot of book press right now. And like sometimes I'm like a little more buttoned up. I knew that if there was one place that I could fem the fuck out, it's this podcast. Hell fucking. And so I literally'm wearing for our listeners. I'm wearing like a dress that just has like makeup and other dresses and lipstick and everything.

And the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, wow, my ADHD, woo today. Get ready, babies. I just, I felt like I felt joy for the first time in a really long time. That makes you happy to hear. Thank you. Because I think that first year of girlhood was so good and there was so much, so much goodness came from it. Yeah. And then it felt like everything went so downhill.

I tried to make a comeback with that song, babe. These are the days. That didn't go as planned. And I had your back through that too. Girl, you know you're an honorary doll. The way, like I. Me and the dolls. Yeah.

Yeah. We're locked in. We have each other. And I think that. for me doing that show, I remember going out because it was an audience of 250 people and like they shut down the classrooms and the universities and that's what the theaters are. And so I'm like in a lecture hall and I did like I finished the first show and I just started crying because I was like, oh my God, I didn't know if I'd ever feel that happy again. Yeah, like joy. Yes. Yeah. And so it was

possible. And so I did it did a sold out run there and now I think we're going to bring it to America later this year. Oh my god. How exciting. And so we've been working on that. And it just, it's so crazy too. I think when we first met, that was really the beginnings of our come up on the internet. And now we were like right next to each other because we were blowing up at the same time. Yes. Yeah. Like and we were holding our each other's hands. Exactly. And I feel like now both of us have done all this other stuff outside of, you know, just these platforms. Right. I want it, because you released a buck that went fucking. people bought the shit out of it.

Period. Loved it. How about, do you have any advice for me as a first-time writer? Like, or like going through this, this, you know,

the press and the book tour and like, what would you say? Yeah. I mean, I think for you, because you're my girl, I think the,

the biggest thing I would tell you is that it's yours, no matter what. And the purpose of art is to put it out there. It's not about reviews. It's not about accolades. Those are great and they're wonderful.

Did you read the reviews? Yeah, I tried not to. Like, I mean, I'll say this. I, the only ones I really saw were positive. The ones that I saw that were negative.

Because it's a fucking great rock. Right. The ones that I saw were negative or could be determined as negative, like perceived as negative were more so things of like people saying I already knew this. The people who said I already knew all this stuff, I was kind of like, okay. Because they're all cis straight white people. So I'm like doubt it. But okay. Um, past that.

They would say things like I thought it was going to be like an insult like guide. Like how to insult people? they just wanted to put you in a box of like what they thought you were capable of. Exactly. So it's like a very superficial take on my content is me as a person. So I would say like not to really pay attention to that and more so to like why you did it in the first place. Like that's what I would focus on because I was really, really nervous too about putting it out because it was so vulnerable, which I know. I'm sure yours is too. Yeah. Because it's like you're sharing something that's a piece of you. It's not like it's not something that you created and it's just like well, I don't care either way. It's like literally you're putting. it's like ripping your heart out and putting it on display and people are like, I don't know, I don't really like it. I will especially because I think so much of what we give or share is generally free. Exactly.

And so I was like, if I'm asking $28 from these people, it better be good. And mine was 282 period. Girl. I, I mean, I put shit in there that I can't believe. Right. And so I really hope that people get to see another side to me because it's very, you know, dark and vulnerable and stupid and all these things. but I also think like hopefully it's worth it. Yeah, absolutely.

I was going to ask you about, obviously, paper doll we have right here by Miss. You book, y'all. Yes. And it's gangham on the sides. Bitch, get into it. Can you see that? I just really. Design's gorge.

Well, that's the thing. If you don't like the words, you will at least want that on your shelf. And under this, you know, Taylor has like a Taylor's version. Yes. This is Dylan's version of the cover. That is so fucking cute. And it's a paper doll. It's a paper doll of me.

It's a paper doll of me. And so that was like the design was, were you, like, was designing it hard for you? Yeah, I was into it. I was very into it too. Like, especially as a Virgo, too, I was very like, well, no. Even like from the minute I sold it, I was like, okay, I know what the, I want the cover to look at. This is it.

But they literally was like, I know what I want. Well, then you were saying title was tricky for you. Yeah, title was the, shockingly, the hardest thing for us to come to the middle on. Okay. Because I was really hard pressed on I'd rather die alone. That's what I wanted it to be. Love it. Because I was like, it sounds like Jeanette McCurdy's like, I'm glad my mom died.

You know, like snappy, catchy. Because at first my publisher was like, I don't know, it's a little negative. And I was like, I know, but that's the thing. It's ironic. And I was like very married to that title. Even throughout writing it, the first, second, third pass, I was still like, that's the title. That's the title. And then once my publisher read the whole manuscript front and back and then

the next few passes, he was like, I think the title, that title makes sense after you read it. And he was like, but it's not indicative of what it is when you first like see the cover. Right. And I was like, too. And Loud is so, it's just like it catches you. Absolutely. It gets. Now, so you feel happy with the decision. Oh yeah. I'm so happy with the title and the subtitle because I came up with them on my own. Because you know, the titles can be very collaborative too. So that's why I was like, I really want to at least come up with it if I can. And then it's weird though to have, I feel like I usually like for my, for my, my one woman show, it was fagg. I had the title.

I didn't know what the damn show was, but I said, that's a great title. It's the perfect title for your one woman show. But girl, couldn't promote it anywhere because of the slur got blocked on every app. We're going to have to figure that out.

Asterisks. You think they won't even allow that. Now, with this one, I originally sold it as Days of Girlhood. Like this was like early in my transition. They were like, you want to write a book? I was like, yeah, bitch.

Yes, I was going to ask you about the process. So it took three years. It was so long and I thought it was going to be one thing. And then Beardate happened and became an completely other book that I think it's better for it. Yeah. But then, so at first it was Days of Girlhood. Then this amazing writer at the New Yorker named Brock had written this article called Girlhood Interrupted. And I really liked that title.

I was like, ooh, maybe I'll ask Brock if I can use that for the book. title and then I thought I was just brainstorming throwing words down and I was like paper doll I was like the dolls hello uh paper doll feels very retro which is like kind of my aesthetic totally and then I also thought about like the two-dimensional aspect of like how people perceive us online and then trying to make it more three-dimensional um and then the notes from a late bloomer it felt kind of like notes I wanted in there to signify that this wasn't some sort of like polished a memoir because I think it is you know to be in your 20s and writing a nonfiction book like it feels a little self-indulgent that's exactly what I said when they kept saying memoir I was

I'm not old enough to warrant a memoir I know no memoir for us you want another percy oh I would love one okay let's put them in the middle so I was like okay notes feels like because there's journal entries in there so that feels a little scrappy a little messy right and then late bloomer is very much me. Like I'm still so early in my transition. Things are still happening to my body. But the one person, my best friend Lily, who it's dedicated to, I was like so excited to tell him.

Like, what do you think of paper doll? She's like, mm, kind of sounds like you were like the victim of abuse or like something really dark. And I was like, um, and I asked everyone else. And then, but then when I asked him like, do you like paper doll, they'd be like, yeah. And I'm like, does it sound like I'm like the victim of a hate crime? Yeah, yeah. And they're like, no.

And so finally last week she was like, yeah, I think I was wrong on that. Like it's a good title. So it's on me. That still goes out to Lily. But that's a, that's a real. Oh, yeah. And I dedicated it to you. But okay.

I think that's actually a good friend though. So good friend will tell you like we go through all the pros and cons. Exactly. It's funny too because when I was originally doing mine, it had a completely different title. It was how to make a grown man cry. Oh, love that. Which like, that's the second one, honey. Yeah.

Exactly. And I made sure. because I thought the title was silly and fun. And I remember it. I told my team specifically, I was like, I need you to put working title on there because I don't want it to be called that. Because I don't want it to be about men.

Like I kept insisting that the title needs to indicate that this is not four minutes in spite of them. Right. And so even with publishers I met with, I was like, this is not a dating book. I cannot stress that enough. Like this is not a dating. This is not a dating book.

They want the dating book, but you didn't give it to them. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Date yourself. That is what's tricky too is when I think people want something very specifically for you and you have to be like, no, this is the thing that I want to make and it's actually going

to be better because of it. Absolutely. And I think that's, that was what I was going to mention earlier when you were talking about like this superficially how people perceive us online and how you want to be perceived differently or at least seen differently with this book, which is, that was the goal of mine too. It's like, author baby. They can't take that out of our bio. Exactly.

That's their. They'd have to burn them. And now it's in my Instagram bio. Well, I did write. This was fucking embarrassing. I've got to stop swearing. Keep swearing. I don't go fuck.

No, but I was supposed to. I haven't even done my 22 and 5 vision board yet because. I know. You're on, you're late on the come up. Well, honey. I mean, this year, this year already. It's been a year.

But I was like, let's feel it out before we make any rash decisions here. Right. And one of them was going to be to swear less. So maybe I'm just really getting it out there before I put that up on the point. Yeah, you're like exercising the. demon. Amen. And I think as like an author now, like I put in there, I was like, I hope these words on this page last longer than the videos on my TikTok profile. Amen. Then they delete the app for a second. I mean, I wish you could have seen it. Like I was like, this was supposed to be like 50 years from

now, like like, like, you know, some love letter to this app that once existed. Not like nostalgia today. So that was really stressful. But we got her back. We're, we're, we're in limbo. Right. We're tentative. We're figuring that out. And I just think like at least now those videos could, you know, go up at any minute. Who knows where they, they go into video heaven. But the books, they're going to have to burn them if they really don't want that batch. Absolutely. And I think to you, and I already know this about you because I actually do know you in real life, unlike people online. But we are so much more than what we were, what we got big for is what I'll say. Like we are so much more as are as is everyone who has a platform like that people are like you said multi-dimensional they're not two-dimensional like paper dolls seeing you now on these carpets and like talking to all these people and coming out with those other projects. I'm like yes yes yes because you do get to show all these other sides to yourself. Right. That's how I felt when I saw your one woman show. And you know what I will I will say is I was so happy for you for so many reasons other than the first happiness I felt was really like you truly looked like you were enjoying yourself and that made me happy because I'm. I will say. I was I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. You truly looked like you were enjoying yourself and that made me happy because I. I. I. I know how hard it was for you. So I want to give you flowers for that first. But second of all, I love seeing women thrive in their art form. Like what they're supposed to do. Yes. Born to do. That's why I feel about you seeing you on Broadway. Like truly. I wanted to ask you of all the things now that you've tried. What is your absolute favorite top thing to do of

the multi hyphenate? Ooh. Probably hosting. Like carpets. Yeah, or this. Yeah. Hosting in any capacity. just like having the conversation. Yeah, I'm getting into acting this year. I have been talking about that. You too. Well, yes, but I'm thinking, what if you go do a one-woman show? What if you write it? I'm not like you, though.

I don't have the voice. We'll work on it. Yeah, all my. Harmonize, ready? Ah. Oh, shit. We'll work on it. Work on it.

We're going to be. It's funny because I have so many friends who are artists, whether they're like pop artists, vocalists, writers, all of the above or Broadway stars, doesn't matter. And every single one of them. is like, I bet, I bet you can see, you just need the training. I'm like, you guys aren't listening to me. You think it's not worth the money. I mean, it'll be a waste of my money and everyone's time. I don't know. They're really, they're putting some people up there right now that, let me sing like Lynn Manuel Miranda. Oh, honey, Hamilton. That's great. Or the rock.

Get, get you. Yeah. Love it. I'm saying, I'm like, let me do what's your dream musical. Well, first of all, let's go back. Favorite musical? I, uh-oh. And I actually saw that you love this one, Legally Blonde is one of my favorite. Oh. On Broadway. You get a Percy Pig for that. Babe. That is one of my favorite Broadway musicals.

It's a perfect musical. It's so perfect. From top to bottom. Discography, top to bottom. It's a listen all the way through. Laura Bell Bundy? Yeah. So, thank.

Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my God. Being in Los Angeles in a place where someone knows Laura Bell Bundy's name. Yeah, girl. Thank you. I know all about her. So, wow.

I really want to do a trans Legally Blondea the musical where there's a trans L maybe it's me maybe it's not um a paulette would be like her trans elder that's like helping you're navigating and then a trans emit that's like babe you're you're you're trying to be one of them but you're one of us love that i think it'd be so good and i think you should be L maybe makes sense maybe you're Vivian are you the turf love to be are you the turf are you the turf I'll be a turf yeah that's the one time in your life that you're just like fucking fuck this trans girl oh my god let me be in the chorus actually I take it back let me be in the chorus. Oh, that's a good musical. Yeah, I would say legally blonde. The color purple is one of my

favorite ones. Any dream role for you? Like what kind of acting do you want to do? Like, what kind of role? If honestly, in acting, I would love to do. Oh my God. Wait. The color purple is my favorite musical that is. Is it? But starring Cynthia Rebo. Yes. Oh, I can't with you. That's why I said we're twins. We're literally, the color purple is one of my favorite musicals too, specifically with Cynthia Riebo and the year she won her Tony. I watched her perform it live at the Tony's a million times back in You're a theater girl. Yes, I am. Oh?

I just don't have the chops. I woke up this morning and thought, okay, we're going to the mainstream, you know? And then I'm sitting here, bitch, I'm on 42nd Street in Times Square right now, shuffling off to Buffalo. You know what's a great one? Six. Oh! I love Six. Oh!

As Friends wrote that. Really? Yes. Six is one of my favorite musicals. I took my whole family to go see it because not everyone... Divorced. Not... Badred.

Dived. Start to finish. I recommend six to everyone who's like, if they're not a big fan of musical theater. I love musical theater, but like... I have a pitch for you. I think it's me, you next year, Edinburgh Fringe, to the musical.

Yeah. And it's two wives of Henry VIII. Yeah. We cycle through. Yeah, totally. And I think we could. I think so. I'm in.

And I always recommend six because when people aren't really huge fans of musical theater, I'm like, you'll enjoy six. because it's all, it's just a concert. In and out, 85 minutes. Exactly. It's real quick. You got the happy moments. You got the sad ones.

And it's funny as fuck. Girl power. Absolutely. And it's so entertaining. Like I took everyone in my family. And my dad doesn't really care for theater just because like he, I don't know why. Like he just doesn't enjoy it. Even my man is like, yeah, that's cool, whatever.

They were having a blast. Yeah, they loved it. And I was like, yeah, exactly. I always recommend if I'm like, that started at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Did it really? I did not know that. Toby and Lucy wrote it. I'm so happy.

And then they just, actually, you would love this one. They just wrote a musical called Why Am I So Single? And it's like, it's us, girl. Oh my God.

I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Also, I haven't seen the notebook on Broadway, but I heard it's beautiful. Oh, it closed already. I know. If this is love. Yeah.

I'm not. Ingrid Michelson, who wrote that one wrote a song for my show. And I love her too. Wow. We really. I'm balls deep in that shit, girl.

I just wish we lived a lot closer to each other. Me too. Me too. I know. we do have to go see a show because I haven't seen like husked is that what it is shucked a shuck not husked that oh I know it's no honey I think husk is the name of your musical that's mine or your second book sorry working title working title working title working title that we have to put working title so people know but I know Alex Newell oh my that voice it's unbelievable that's why I was like just two voice lessons

there you go that's what I was like yeah I know me me so are But see, that's why I love that we're theater girls. We're in it. Yeah, we're in it. I used to watch the Legally Blonde musical. I used to watch on like a pirated, recorded version. The MTV version? Yeah. Did you ever watch the reality show?

Were they, the search for the next? Too good. Too good, girl. I would love to know when you were doing your one woman show, what was the hardest part and what was the coolest part? Okay. Because that is such a huge feat and accomplishment to do a one-woman.

women's show. And I saw nothing but wonderful reviews about it. I got five stars from the Scotsman, which is the biggest thing you could get. Okay. That's crazy. I would say the hardest part was like, uh, I, I basically didn't sleep for like, I wrote it three weeks before it started. That's crazy. Do you procrastinate? Yes, all the time. You have no idea. And you, and if you have ADHD, I know it goes crazy. The procrastination. And like, and I swear to God, it will be better because I'm not doing it right now. But then that's what I tell myself too. Oh, and I work better under pressure.

And I cut it close, which. Oh, we're grinding it. And I remember, like, I was in London about, like, it was like a week before the show started and there felt like there's something missing. And I'm like, should I write in, should we write another song? And they're like, it's starting. You can't like. And so I think it was also, oh, my God, this is the hardest part.

When you've been successful at one thing. Yeah. I made these videos. Mm-hmm. the next thing is tricky because you don't know if it's going to hit or if it's going to pop like the other. And everyone's comparing you to that thing. Yeah. And then there was also the theater world being like, who's this bitch?

Even though that's where I came from, they're thinking, oh, this TikTok girl is showing up into this theater festival. So I felt like there was a lot to prove. But I also think that then the best part of it was, oh my God, I think like going out after every night. and like meeting everyone that came to see the show. And I knew that that was my favorite thing to do in the entire world. I knew that of all the things that I've tried, that's what I should be doing the most of. And it doesn't mean that's the only thing that I should be doing. But God, it was fun.

It just like refills your cup. Yeah. And when you do something where you're like, I don't need to be paid for this. Because in theater, you don't make a lot of money doing that. Yeah. But I was like, I would pay to do this. Right. Which actually, my producers, no, I didn't just say that, but I loved it that much.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's how I feel about hosting. Like, it wouldn't matter if money came from it. I just really enjoyed doing it. So happy. Yeah. I'm about to do my first carpet this weekend. And what kind of, wait, that's ag?

Yeah. Me too. Shut up. I'll see you there. Oh, my God, thank God. Okay, so what are you, what are some tips for that? Like, I've never done it. I think, well, first of all, you're so.

magnetic already naturally, which is half the battle, I think. It's like, it's an aura. Like, when you're, like, fun and, and welcoming and open, like, they're, they're really cool, like, typically when they come. But you have a lot of famous friends, so you know. What, and do you notice it's like the people that maybe have connected with you online or the ones that want to come talk? Trust me. I know. It works a million times over. And maybe that's why it makes you look like a superstar. Well, maybe that's why they're, they're hiring us because they, they know that maybe they'll want to talk to us. Yeah, we have like a poll. And then also we're very like, we're people, we're People girls. People girls. Is that a thing? Is that a new one? I don't know if it's going to stick. But for this episode, we're people girls. I don't know if we have working title. Working title. Another working title. Um, how about, uh, you like a little gimmick too. Like I've seen you hand out some things. I love. And they love a gimmick too. Like celebrities, some, like, it depends on branding and like who you go with. But like some of them are way more fun than others. Like some of them are like, yeah, fuck it. Do anything. Yeah. And some of them are like. And some of them are like. Yeah. And some of them are like. Yeah. And some of them are like. Yeah. And some of them are like.

Like, no, no, no, no, no. It has to be real, like, straight to the point, whatever. Yes. But even then I try to think of, like, I do standard questions in the beginning, like, one or two. And then one kind of fun one that, like, wild. Engages them. Yeah. It isn't inappropriate, but it's still fun.

And, like, one of those. So, like, when I did the White Lotus, obviously someone dies every season. So I said, can you look in the camera and give them a 10 second pitch why they should not kill you off this season? Oh, that's so good. And they loved it. They were like, oh, my God. You just came up with that? Yeah, I just came up with it.

And HBO was like, sounds good. We love it. Yeah. And the snacks were huge hey, when I did snacks. My manager did say he was just like, try to keep the energy, you know, kind of calm. Because I'm like, hey, I'm sorry. Like, so that's what we're going to be working on. You keep, you keep me in check.

If you see me with some arms flailing down the aisle. Yeah. But you've seen, you've seen Teffy hosts too. Like, Teffi has a lot of energy too. Yeah. Love her. You love. You know what's funny.

I've said about Tevi. I've always, because that's my sister. I've literally always. say what you think she's like in real or what you think I'm like in real life is how Teffy is and what you think she's like in real life is how I am which is like I'm way more chill than Teffi. Oh, yeah. A thousand percent. Taffy in real life is crazy. She's crazy. Insane. My funnest nights, it's always too if I'm like out of work thing or something. Yeah. And then next thing I know it's like 4 a.m. I'm at like a private club and I'm like grinding on

someone I look over and she's like, yeah, baby girl. Yeah. And she's always. there like with you and even like I'll be out with girlfriends who like are fully straight and they're like there's something about that girl that makes me just want to do something you know I've said before she's so easy to fall in love with I would rob a bank with that bitch right she could convince me to do anything and that's literally why I got the last time I got like truly fucked up with tevi was at the people's choice awards yeah and it was me her and Davis burleson oh and my sister so good and we love Davis oh love and I saw Chris there too Chris Olson honey Chris is like everywhere right now as well. I know that we all kind of at that same time and all got torn the fuck down at the same

time. We've taken some exits from oh we sure have queen but but I will say like I'm so proud of you and even like now I've been in these meetings I texted this to you I think she'd be fine for me to share this but like I was in a meeting with Amy Polar and she like brought you up about how much she loves you and your content and how we need that online which single tiered on my rolled down my eye when you sent it to me when you sent me a voice down i was single tear but that's and there was because i was scared too that i was like oh these people aren't going to want to like work with us or you know and they do yeah like a lot of them it's crazy how like the people in the industry that they that are accredited with being actors or theater people or comedians or what have you they see a lot

of potential in us that sometimes we don't even see in ourselves right and they're like no no no you're a comedian, you're a star, you're, you're a Broadway star, you are. Like, they, they tell us that themselves. The internet's what tells us the opposite. Oh, yeah. They're like, uh-uh. Why are you there? Why are you there?

Yeah, always. Get her out. Yeah, why. Why do TikTokers get together this? Well, because you're talking about it. That's why. Yeah. Like when I was, you commented.

Yeah. Unfortunately for you, you keep saying that and that's why they keep inviting us. It's like when I was in the NBA commercial last year. Like, why? I don't fucking know. They asked me. So, of course, I'm going to go. I say yes.

Yeah. And so when I went, I even told people after them, because obviously men were pissed off. That was my goal. But I've said, whether you like me, like love me, hate me, you know me and you'll talk about me. And that's why they picked me. It's really that simple. So true. And they hate to hear it about you, me, and Chris.

Chris is everywhere. And he's just going to keep being everywhere. I know. Well, I'd love to know more about the book, what your kind of process was with writing. it. I know you said it took about three years just because you had to kind of pivot a few times, but how was the whole process in writing it and everything too? I was starting doing artist's way, which was this like journaling kind of thing. You ever did that? Yeah, Caleb. Caleb and you know, oh, I know Caleb. He said when my friends start reading the artist way, I'm like, I think I'm going to

start checking in on you a little bit more. Something's a little off. He's like, let's get you some shoes with no laces and let's, you know, let's hang out a little bit more. Padded padded room. Going through it. Oh, honey. Right. I started the artist's way, which, yes, red flag right there. And then I was journaling like basically every day of my transition, things that I wasn't sharing online, believe it or not, if there was anything left, Jesus Christ. It's just like photos of my nipples, basically.

And that's what I was journaling. And so I had all these journals and I thought that was what the book was going to be. Then Beergate goes down. Yeah. I was so sad, girl. I bet. Oh, my God. I never, I didn't know I could feel.

that low. And so when my publisher was like, okay, we're ready for the book. I was like, oh, one minute. Occupato. And so I could not bring myself to like be like, hey everyone. Like there was, I was like, yeah, naturally. I brought on this amazing girl Marina who I wrote every single word, but she basically would like sit with me in a Zoom room while I either cried or I asked her questions. And I love that we can give her, Marina, you're everything. And so she kind of was able to start asking me questions that like pulled things out. And then came these essays. So there's a ton of essays that are in between the journal entries.

So the timeline goes first year of transition journals and then essays following beer gate. Yeah. And I really, it's messy. I think some people might be like, honey, where are we now? But I think that's like my life is like that. Yeah. And it's so nonlinear. Yeah.

And neither is healing. And like so one of the essays is about me doing ayahuasca in Peru. How is that? Oh, would you ever? Maybe. I've heard it's really transformative. I think it just depends. I loved it.

Did you? Well, I always knew that I wanted to do it because of Chelsea Handler went and did it. I grew up reading a lot of her books. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that was a huge part too of like knowing that like Amy Poehler, Lina Dunham, like these really funny books by women. That's what I wanted to make. but Chelsea had this like drug doc called Chelsea does drugs.

Yeah. And one of them was Iowaska. And I think it was like 17 when I watched that and I was like, I'm going to go do ayahuasca in Peru. And then like years went by. It was kind of thought about it. And then this I was like, I need a quick fix. And I need it fast.

I was like, get me on that plane. And I'll never forget. It was actually I write about this in the book. But I had to go stop at Michaela Neguara's wedding, go to Patsu. And with Chris Olson. We're like staying together. And I'm like at the table because you do a dieta, like as I'm literally eating a Percy pig in my hand right now, you like can't eat any like any sugars, any carbs. Wow.

Okay. So I couldn't eat any. There was nothing left for me. And I don't eat me. Right. So it was just. So I couldn't eat anything. And then Chris looks over like during the, and you can't drink alcohol or anything.

I have like a glass of champagne. And we're at the reception for, for Michaela. And where I'm like, I have a glass of champagne in my hand. like a bowl of mac and cheese in front of me and he was like aren't you like supposed to be on some diet? Aren't those all those things you're not supposed to have? And I was like, babe, if it didn't come out of a microwave, like we're golden. Like that is, it's good for me.

And then there was once like, because that was the day before I took the ayahuasca, then I get down to Peru that first night and it wasn't working. And I remember being like, it was the fucking mac and cheese at the Kayla's wedding. Thanks a lot mac and cheese. Damn it. So, but like, so there are also like crazy stories that I. I think people wouldn't expect for me because they still might see me as this one thing from you know years ago on videos. Yeah. And I'm really excited. It's very adult. It's like raunchy.

I talk about like my sex capades. It kind of feels like my Carrie Bradshaw in a way. Too. Love that. And then there's also like I talk about my family, which is something that I never do online. And I had to share that with, you know, my mom and my, it was funny. Like my mom like picked apart every single word. like question every like phrasing of everything and then my dad was like I trust you he's like add some more of me and like he didn't he didn't even read it but um but he's in there uh shout out jimovani but did you have to like any parts of your book that had to do with others did you like share that with them or yeah totally i i i especially because in my book when i wrote about come when my sister came out to me and when i wrote about um me not wanting kids and why when i wrote about those two things I had to like share them like obviously with my sister I had her like I explained exactly like how I was

going to write it in in what way I was writing it and so that she could consent to it too because I was like we don't have to include this at all if you feel uncomfortable with it but I feel like it was imperative in my growth as like a woman as an ally as like just a general empathetic human being it was like a huge moving piece for me and becoming a better person and growing and changing and stuff because the way I reacted when my sister came out to me wasn't inherently awful. It wasn't like, I hate you. You're disgusting. But it wasn't good either. It was just unsupportive. And so that's why I felt like it was important to include stuff like that just because it is about you, but it's about your faults. It's about your mistakes. It's about your fuckups. And hopefully it like it

becomes like an example of either what not to do or it can help people that are going to be in that situation eventually like not do that. That's what I explained to my mom because like our relationship's been so tricky over the years but I love her and she loves me and the sort of whole essence of the book is this like relationship like us finding each other over and over again. It's like yeah and flowing yeah and and she felt really frustrated you know she was like oh you know I'm being painted this way or it and then I was like no if you look at the entire piece of this it's that there's always love there absolutely and I think that is way more important for trans kids and their families and allies to read so that they know like if they aren't starting from a perfect place, which most of us aren't,

that they can eventually get there. Absolutely. It's possible. Yes, because I grew up so religious in a very conservative household. And the fact that like we still managed to figure it out is amazing. Absolutely. And I want to share that with people. Absolutely.

And I think that's more authentic. It's real. It's very human. There's nothing more human than fucking up, honestly. There's something more human than like growth and changing. and realizing what once you held so dearly actually doesn't serve you. Right. And like there's nothing, I think, more empathetic than that is like acknowledging that

sometimes two things can be true at the same time. Like you may have been navigating it the best way you knew how, but it also could have been harmful and it could have been hurtful. And maybe it's okay that we acknowledge both of those things happened. And we can, and the important part is where you're at now. Like, and like you said, it's so important, especially for the trans community, especially now to hear stories of families who have made it through. Well, I mean.

And I had no idea that like this is the world that this book was going to be coming out to. Absolutely. I'm really scared still that like I could potentially become like another poster child because of the situation. But I just know that like we need we need trans joy anywhere we can find it right now. Absolutely. I think that is 100% the only way to win this battle is like is fine.

Like, because I know the, if I keep finding success in joy and feeling beautiful and, you know, owning my womanhood, that what they're saying about me in this community isn't true. Like, it literally proves them wrong. Absolutely. Point blank. And so I think this book is that. Like, the fact that I even was able to get published as like a trans woman right now. Absolutely. Very privileged one at that.

But I think there's, there's so much joy in this. And I think it is like one of the first ways. that I've been able to like show my audience like, hey, here's a way that you can support me personally. Absolutely. And other trans people, the trans community as a whole, like literature existing written by trans people for trans people is important.

For me, I don't really care what most people think about this book, but like I want the dolls to be behind it. Absolutely. And it's one of those things I think that makes you so uniquely yourself. Like you are, and I'm saying this, openly and honestly I mean and Dylan have been good friends for a while we have but Dylan is a very very pure person

like you are such a good person to your core a very selfless person I feel I feel a little less earnest than when I was first on the show and then I even I will say too I think like I've gotten better at like trying to put up a front a little bit because of just everything that's happened but at the end of the day

like we're just like we're baby girls like Like we just, we're just teenage girls navigating the world. And I think it's scary. Like I'm not going to lie and say I'm not scared. Yeah. But I am really proud to like have something like this going out there. Well, that's because you're fucking brave.

You are. And you always have been brave from the day you started posting until now. And you're still doing it now. Even coming back after Beergate shows how courageous and brave you are. But what I love about you is that you have boundaries. Like I think you've gotten really good at being. honest about what you need, even from millions of people. And they don't always want to give that to you, but then you demand it.

And that's something that I want to really work on. Thank you. You know what's funny about that is Chris told me that. And Chapels told me that. Like, that's a big reason why Chapel loves me and she's told me is because I stand up for myself and she said, like she's told me before I admired that about you, like boundaries, setting boundaries with fans or people who hate you. Can I tell you a secret?

Please do. I got so stoned like, it's probably like a month ago. And I was down. Like I was like, I was like, what is going on? But like in a sad way, like I thought I was like, my career, my life, my love. Sometimes it does that. It's all bad. And then I got a notification.

It was like Chapel Roan liked your video or something. And, you know, we follow each other. And I said, I made something that Chapel Roan enjoyed enough to like. say, that's pretty good. And I'm not kidding. I started skipping through the house. I was like, I mean, I was like, the people that I love enjoy what I'm doing. Right.

They enjoy me as a person. And there's a lot of other people that maybe don't, but those aren't really my kind of people. Exactly. And how great that the people that I look up to the most, the Lady Gaga's, the chapels, like these are people that support and that are behind. And like, I just hate the idea of waste. energy on on those haters. Me too. And I, and I, you know what's funny is me and Caleb actually

talked about this, that you and I are two sides of the same coin in a lot of ways. Like, we've talked about how the way you handle hate and any sort of vitriol at all is with beauty and grace and compassion. Like you, you are still being so brave and so courageous and still finding joy, even when people are determined to take it from you. Mine's a little more violent than that. but I was like I love the way Dylan handles in. Dylan loves the way I handle it because we're two different people wishing we could have the other. And I want the other. So I have been sitting on an insult that I have been waiting to use.

And I don't know who I'm going to drop it here. And then you'll know when I've cashed in on it. Right. It is. So say who, you know, whoever it is, I want to say, suck my girl dick and stay down there long enough to eat me. me out when it's a vagina. And that's a damn good one, Dylan.

Thank you. That took years to put together. She's been cooking that one for a while. I also oscillate between vagina and pussy, depending on kind of what the vibe. You got to read the room a little bit. Really do. You never know.

And so that's, I've got one and I'm ready when there's, oh, girl. That's a great one. Thank you. That's a great one. It feels timely. It feels like, topical, relatable. Yes.

It's all the points. Thank you so much. Wow. I got it cleared by the coach. I said approved. Got a big green stamp for me. Well, before we move on, I'm going to, I have some fun facts about you. Oh, shit.

That's, we're kind of pivoting here. Where do we get those? Famous birthdays.com? I know. Okay. It says, it says you're an official certified Vinyasa yoga teacher. Yes. Hell yeah.

No, I. That was pre-transition days. And, um, I was going through a dark breakup situation. Right. And instead of ayahuasca at that time, that was yoga. Right. And it worked.

I taught classes at the Cincinnati Conservatory Music in the Rec Center. No, University of Cincinnati in the Rec Center. I did that for about six months. And it was great. Can I tell you, Dylan is someone who truly, like, if she wants to learn a new skill, she just goes and joins a class and learns the skill, masters it. And then goes, all right, I don't think I'm going to move on to the next set. I think we're good.

I think we wrap. Yeah, I think I got the gist. It's done. Once you become like a certified master in it, she's like, yeah, okay. That's it. You're a woman of many hats. That's true. True fact.

It says on here, her dad is known as the cookie man around San Diego. He loves to bake cookies and gives them away to people for free. She once said he bakes 500 cookies a week. Have you had one yet? No, of course not. Oh, my God. I would know. They are, we call them the kitchen sink.

They've got everything. I love. Macadamias. white chocolate, dark chocolate, milk chocolate, peppermint, like anything. Like sometimes he puts those whole, you know Costco? Yes. The turtles, like the chocolate turtles. He'll put those right in there.

And just, it's that big. And he makes $500 a week. He's in the program and he's now sober, which he's okay with me sharing. But that's what he's now addicted to is making cookies. What a great addiction. Expensive. Yeah. Because macadamia nuts these days skyrocketing.

Yeah, the price of nuts didn't go down When they put that fucking bigot in the office That's crazy How that works Also, how sweet Your dad just going around handing out cookies It does get a little weird on the beach though If he like gives him like a three-year-old

Then mom's like, Jimmy, come back Don't take that cookie Or people think they're like weed cookies He's like, no, that's what I'm running from No, wait, you're misunderstanding It says you were in Glee Club in high school Oh, you know, that was... Hurry me, like, let me explain.

We try to get it up and running there. I was a cathedral Catholic. And for all my San Diegoans watching. And I mean, I think they were like flying our football team private. Like, it was one of those schools where like those, the football team was wearing like Versauchy. And the theater kids were like in, you know, just like painted overall. They look like the lay miss kids. It was, but not on purpose.

But not on purpose. That was the budget. And so we tried to get the, it was the peak of Glee, actually maybe a little, you know, like maybe fifth season. Yes. And so we really tried to get it going. It never took off. And then I think I got out before the house burnt down. Yeah. Yeah.

But you had a hand in trying to kick it off. Totally. But you loved Glee. And you know what? I will say, when I don't master something, I also know when to leave. Right. And I say, we're done. abandon ship.

I do. You know when to call it. I did. When to fold them. Also, did you like, you liked Glee the show, right? Oh, it's everything. Chris Kulfer? Yeah.

That falsetto. He's, he's interviewing me on one of the stops of a way book tour. I'm so happy. Oh, my God. How fucking fun. My sister and I were on. Oh, the Glee podcast? Yeah, the Glee podcast, which was a blast.

And I talked about how I'm not going to teach your boyfriend how to dance with you. They were like, I was kind of shocked. they were saying like, I don't know why so many women like that one. And I said, my theory is that when you watch Darren Chris perform it, because obviously Darren Chris plays a gay man in the show, when you watch it, straight girls are kind of like, hold on a second. Wait, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. You're like, mm.

He might be eating it up a little bit. So good. Yeah, they're like, attracted to him. So they're like, wait, actually, I love this camera. Culturally queer. When I had Rebecca Black on, we joked about her. Obviously, we joked about Friday. Like, she was talking about it.

She was, like, saying that was her. 9-11 right when she had Friday. Yeah. And then I said, true, true. I said, but in my head, I thought of this joke and I forgot to bring it up on the episode. So now I have to bring it up here. At least she got a Glee cover out of it. They did Friday? Yeah, they absolutely did. They better paid her for that. That's why I said, a Glee cover, small price to pay. I wish I had a Glee cover. I'm so waiting for my Days of Girlhood cover on Glee. So waiting. Reboot. Tell Chris Coulford to get to it. Okay. What else do we have on here?

It says Dylan performed in How the Grinch St. Christmas at the Old Globe in San Diego, which she was just 12 years old. Did I ever? And it was 10, bitch. I was from 10 to 14, actually. Okay, and I went to. I got Danny Hu.

And actually, in my book, I talk about how my divorce parents showed up to my, like, my middle school with a bottle of Martin Mallet's. And I thought they were getting back together. And then they were like, no, you're Danny Who and how the Grinchill Christmas. I was like, that's way better than you guys getting back together.

You said, okay, okay, I forgive you. That's the one piece of news that could have made this better. They fixed it. And I, so I grew up around like these gay adult professionals. Right. Also, why did me sing gay sound like it was like I was describing them as like, gay? Like I don't know why. Like you were insulting them?

Yeah, I did feel like that for a second. But it was such a special time in my life. I was Danny Hu. I graduated to Teen Rangler. love. Good musical, honey. You gotta put that one on the list. We'll take a trip down to San Diego.

Right, I got to get into that. It says you were a huge Jesse McCartney fan as a teen. I don't want another pretty face about Jesse. I don't want just any one to hold social media. Uh-oh. And you went to see her perform at the mall. Oh, yeah. I went in like, it's beautiful soul.

He's got a, I, my email was Dylan loves Jesse at Yahoo.com. And I was straight. And I did go during, did you ever watch Stuck in the Stubber? It's a good life. So why I'll sit? I'm friends with Brenda, Brenda now. Love. Terran Killum as the love interest.

So hot. Interesting. But Jesse had a song on that, but I went to the mall performance when he was doing, I'm ready, you're ready, we're ready. Right. Not the top of the top, but I loved him at every face. And you know what? Even this.

I tried. Oh shit these percy's are getting to me baby I like lace them with something could you imagine I tried to hire Jesse for my year two of girlhood celebration to sing beautiful soul for like the I'm like Will you come support the Trevor Project like we're like trying to put this thing Got the sweetest no bag that was like can't make it this time But like it is funny that that was basically my sweet 16

To like be like can we get Jesse McCartney And I would have sounded on a chair probably and made him sing it to me like a one less lonely girl kind of oh that's a dream yeah that I mean was Jesse the only one you fan gerald over I mean I love Zach Ephron right I loved um big high school musical a fan up that was my first musical that I was ever in I played Ryan I'd be Charpe now who are you and you are who are you I'm Charpe I think you got Charpe right but this time you play Sharpay I'll play Ryan oh shit okay gender band Ryan I love that for us.

I was obsessed with high school musical when it came out. It's everything. I loved it. And none of my friends gave a fuck, but I did. You're the only one. Yeah, it was the only. It's so much so that when I graduated from, I think, like, eighth grade, because it came out a couple, I think I was in eighth grade a couple years after it came out.

But like, those little shoes that Gabriello wears all throughout the first high school musical. What are they? They're like the tiniest little, like, Mary Jane with the tiniest little heels. She wears them with every outfit throughout the entire. movie go clock it I wanted those so fucking bad I was like telling mom I have to find these shoes they're not even a kidney heel not even it's like you're like a preemie it's a preemie heel it's a two centimeter high heel in a close around and you thought that was I said she's eating that shit up every little like oh I love that noise yeah I used to call them clapy shoes

as a girl I was like I need their heels but I needed a heel so fine that's why I said like I've been that girl, that kind of girl forever. Like I'm like, I need a heel. I need a lash. I need a nail. I love it. That's one of those. Why, I hate that I had to, I gave that up for a second and I'm back, baby. I'm full. Now you're making up for last time now. I had to. Obviously. Oh my God. Okay. Let's see. This last one is, oh yeah, it talks about your solo show. Oh, Edinburgh.

The Edinburgh French Festival. What's your dream role? I would love to know what your dream role would be. Elwoods, Leely Blonde, Linda and Wicked. Obviously. It has to be. This is crazy. Do you know Sondheim? Like, do you get Steven Sondheim? Yes, of course. I would love to do Mrs. Lovett. And, Honolie Ashford, she was in the, she's on the album for Legly Blonde. She's like, dear L'L she's, yeah. She played Mrs. Lovett recently. It was so good at that. I would love to do that one day. But I want to go see a show with you now. We have to go see one together. We're going to. Chris Wilson will come to. Oh, of course. Taffy, but like, she won't care. But she'll let no she'll be like I'll be at the bar

Like when we were at Wicked She's back no she's backstage Like like fucking grinding on the stage manager or something I know we look on the stage she has a role She's in she's in Ad living everything Okay I'm gonna circle back to your book What would you say was the hardest thing to write about?

Ooh I think Beergate had to I mean because first of all I was like I don't want to get sued But also I think like to try to put into words how like disassociation so clearly feels and how especially being someone that is seen as a very positive person to then try to tell people how that manifests when it goes the opposite way. That was tricky and scary but very cathartic. and I also think there was some parts of my childhood that I had never shared that it's it's hard

because I also my mom the other day she was like oh you know can I read a physical copy I was like there's parts like I don't know if I want you reading about like the sex and like step you know when I was young like da-da-da-da and she's like oh god you know and she's like well um she's like I like I like the parts where you write about God because I do I write about my my relationship with the higher power. And I was like, I don't think God would care that much if I wrote about sex. And she was like, I don't know about that. And I was like, well, then why do you make it feel so good? And then she's like, I don't know. And then I was like, why did he put a G spot in a guy's butt hole? You know, like there's so many questions that are. And she and she didn't have one. She didn't have an answer. She said, what are you doing for the Super Bowl? She said, anyway, what are your plans for the Super Bowl? Okay, what's it about podcast that you come on and you just will say anything? It's fucked up. It's a real truth serum kind of deal. Yeah.

It goes pretty crazy over here. I feel like with your ability to articulate something like that, I think will be very impactful for a lot of reasons. I hope people who read it are not just people obviously who want to and need to. I hope it's people too who maybe don't see things like that as like that big of a deal to people like us. When they happen, they're like, well, that's just part of it the way they say. They think that you're a character. Yeah, they rationalize. It's like fiction and it's like there's a real person that's like experiencing these things.

And I think too, like it just is breaking my heart. Like I think the suicide rates of trans people are up so high right now. And I remember during that time, it so clearly felt like that was an answer to like the problem. And I hate that that's where my mind went. But that feels kind of like where society wants us to go in our minds because they want us to. to feel so isolated. They want us to feel like there are no other ways out. And so if I like I'm thinking about little Dylan, but like the little Dylan's of today that like knowing that there are ways out of this that are not that. And yeah, please don't. Yeah. I, I, God, it just kills me what's

going on. I know. I agree. Same. That's why I think your book is so important. I think your presence in general is so impactful and important in so many different ways. And I feel like a lot of people don't, talk about like there are other trans women who are huge names now too as well but like what people I think yourself included only see is like the end product they don't see any of the before or how terrible it was or how hard it was it is it's hard to blaze trails it's it's fucking hard to go first it's hard to be the first the first that people see the first that people come in contact with like you also want to be the answer for whatever someone's problem is so you're like trying to take on all these roles that you're not ready for or

you know, I'm not an activist. I still don't think of myself that way. Yeah. And so that was really tricky too. But like now I feel like you didn't you went to the White House, right? At one point, did you ever visit? I've been to the White House. She's been to the White House. But but like I think like for you, you've done a really good job of like deciding when and how you want to advocate and you do it so often, but in ways that feel right to you. And I feel like that for me, it's it's now being on on my kind of own personal choice versus it being like someone's telling me that this is what I need to do versus me wanting to. Yeah. And if the whole point is to avoid performative nature or acts in general, then it has to be natural and organic in that sense. But I also think too,

the understanding of good faith and good people is so warped now where it's just, it now like nothing you've ever done up until this point matters it's just what it's almost like the clock restarts every single day which i think is fucked up in a lot of ways like especially for people who have consistently and fervently cared like even with this last election i still in like a couple weeks ago got comments about someone saying i never made it clear who the fuck i voted for is that a joke like i said hello i feel like i'm on the truman show because then i think you and I don't have a choice but to be political because our lives are political.

And what if you did and that person didn't see that video? Just look at me, bitch, what do you think? Is what I want to say? That's what I always think. I'm like, use your fucking brain. Like, really think about it. Like, actually think about what could possibly be the reason that you would ever think otherwise.

Like, just ask yourself that question. And I also think, too, in taking my break and everything, because I know you took a break too. I talked to Chris. I wasn't about it. In some ways, I'm still all. on it. Yeah, me too. I feel like it recentered me in a lot of ways, but it helped me a lot to like remember why I started doing this in the first place. What I love about it. Like that's why I loved what you were

saying about your one woman show because it is so important to remember why we started doing this in the first place. Like we didn't ask for this to happen. It just did. And we fell into it and we're so grateful and so happy about it. But at the same time, it comes with issues that no one could ever understand how to deal with or navigate. It's just us. Like we're the only people who can understand. So sometimes when new people come up, I always tell them, make friends. Make friends with other creators. Yes. Ask about, you know, like how other people are getting paid. Yeah. Build communities or, you know, like, yes, because I think they, in a way, these platforms probably also want us to be isolated because then it feels like we have to be alone in turning these

products out. Right. And I don't like being a part of anyone else's agenda. Me too, exactly. And I've said that too. I'm like, I'm so tired of being used as like an example as if I'm not a real person. And I know you're tired of being treated that way too. It's like being treated as like an idea. What was your favorite part of the break? Never looking at TikTok.

That was my favorite part. I had never felt so free. I was like. Did you feel like when it was down for that 12 hours? Did you like, did you feel like a sense of freedom or did you feel like what did you feel? I felt sadness more so for all the wonderful things that TikTok has brought into my life. But generally I was like, I'll be all right. Next.

Yeah, I was literally like. Did you get a red note? No, I didn't actually. Yeah, I never ended up getting one. I was, and I think you know this too. Chris, we talked about this Chris too, but like it's always been a vehicle. It's never been the end goal. Like you and I, we've talked about that for a long time.

Like we have bigger plans. It's 50 years from now on fashion. Exactly. Those plans are set in motion. Right. So I was like, it's never been the end goal. It's always been a vehicle. That's how I've been looking at it. Yeah. And for years, I know you have too. So I know that's why I wasn't as like, about it. But I was sad about it, obviously. But also I made one of those videos. Me too. The, oh, I had, you know, like, I really cared. I didn't confess to anything. I didn't have anything else to confess. I didn't have anything confessed to. Me either. But I, I did like, I felt so, like, just. sad. I felt sad. And I felt sad because I felt nostalgic too. Like I was thinking about the last few years and how much fun I had and like what it brought me and gave me. So I did feel sad. But I was also like, well, I mean, I'll keep I'll keep going. Speaking nostalgic, who was your Jesse McCartney? Oh, the Jonas brothers. Nick Jonas. Oh, and you like did the experience with them. Oh, hell yeah. Girl, I met them as adults. Honey, he's going to be on Broadway. That's right. He's going to go. I would love to. We're going to see the last five years on Broadway starring Nick Jonas. And I also love that. Jeremy Jordan in the last five years. Oh, you love last five years too. Yes.

Oh my God. That song, they all fuck me up. Jamie is over. Jamie is. Yeah, Jeremy Jordan and Anna Kendrick in the last five years movie. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And then I wonder why all my friends are gay. For real. Like, they're theater kids. Yeah, all of them. It is weird when gay people don't like theater. I'm like, I just went on a gay cruise. Like for like, oh my gosh.

Tell me about the gay cruise. I thought your stories was. One other woman that should have been on that ship. It was you. Actually, and your mom. Maybe even your mom more than you. Also, the love that I have for your mom, it just knows no bounds. I was on this gay cruise.

I got asked to do it like three days before. They were like, do you have a show? And I'm like, put it on a show. And I couldn't do the one from Edinburgh because it had a huge set and all these like moving things. So I had a bright, a new one. And so I'm telling you, the procrastination. honey. I'm on that ship like like with note cards and and they gave me the the mamma mia dancers from the ship that were already on there. I picked four of the hottest British ones. I said get back

there put them in Amazon sailor outfits. I had a little US Navy outfit. That would really shake things up. And and I went out that my opening song was called for the gaze from death becomes for the musical. And I was like, I do anything for the gays. And but it was really funny. too because they came on like on the loudspeaker the day of my show and they're like hey everyone this girl's really been through it um we kind of you know us gs haven't been showing up for the T's so well so if everyone could you know funnel their way to the orchid theater like that would be great and I'm like who are they talking about um and like please she needs it it was so insane and then there there was like there was like two other gals there I think one was probably a trumper because she

looked at me like I was the Antichrist. Love. And I get it. I was on her, you know, soil. Like, it was on her turf. Like, she was there first. But then also, um, then there was another woman who had just like triple Z tits in the craziest way that I loved. And she was nice to me. Yes. But then otherwise it was these, I thought I was going to get swarmed. But these men, I was a ghost. I was on the Queen Elizabeth, the haunted ship, because they did not see me. They didn't want to talk to me because they're there to meet other eligible bachelors.

that's not me. Very gender affirming, I will. I'll say, if you were a trans woman and you want to feel like a woman, go on a gay cruise. That is what we should be prescribing. You said I've never been more aware. Don't take our hormones away, but also insurance should be covering gay cruises for the dolls. I had a time of my life went jet skiing and drove by the nude beach. Some of the gays were really going at it on the beach there.

It was so fun. And they, they, they kind of, um, I, I, I jet skied up to them and they scattered kind of like, and I was like, no, it's me. I flashed my tits and they're like, yeah. And, um, the jet skiing, you like to jet ski? I don't mind it. I've been a couple times. What's up with that?

That was not the, that, we were really cooking there. This was a nice episode about theater. Right. And gay people. Right. And common interests like jet skiing. Yeah. I guess jet skiing is kind of cis straight.

like that you know what manly thing that is kind of though the the like the intersection of like a lot of people like jet skiing we're not so different after all no no at the other day we all love to jet ski don't we we are the world I loved your story when you said I've been running around asking each of these gays if any of them knows how to do a French twist oh my god and then fucking oh what was Margie there is the the gal in the spa really cooked cooked it up yeah she's like but what oh we got to talk about we need to be paying the makeup artists on cruise ships a lot more money because do you know what it's like to be having to put eyeliner on someone as a ship's going like this and I was like you poor girl like she she did I look great yeah but um you looked fabulous thank you so much and you had the time of your life you've been on a cruise ever no I'm actually kind of afraid of cruises what's up with that

I think I just think about the Titanic since we were talking about it I just get a little worried what you wouldn't have wanted to go on that one I don't know to something bad happened happened when that one went out. Yeah, I worry about being stranded at sea. Not my fave. It is weird when you're like just doing your life and then you're like, we're in the middle of nowhere. There's sharks and mermaids and all sorts of shit down there. But I think on your, on that cruise, I think I would have had fun. Oh, that's, I think we should do a show. To the musical, it's six, but less than four. We got to start writing stuff down. We've got to start right now. We can put something together. They pay well. The gays do have money. I'm telling you. Good

gig. You didn't know you you didn't know about it. No, good gig. You know what's funny? My manager told me that it's pretty common for older acts that were really successful at one time to do nostalgia cruises. So they do like themed cruises. And it's just like them and it's everything's themed around them. Wait, like as a person. Yeah, like it could be a person or it could be like me trying to think of someone. Like if the Jonas Brothers were like, I'm going to do Jonas Brothers. Like someone would eat that up. That you, you would buy out the entire boat. I would be the captain. That's so cute.

Yeah, I'd be the captain. It'd be a crew of two, you and I. Wait, you know who could maybe do it? Jesse McCartney. A Jesse McCartney cruise. And you would be the captain of that one. Honey. And you're my first mate.

You're Smee bitch. You are Smee on the Jesse McCartney cruise. Give you a little shave. I need it still. That's one thing I will say about since I've been on this show. The stubble is still present. I, God bless me with a lot of things. but he also gave me a thick head of hair and a thick beard.

And you know what, girl, that is your gift. And he took it from the worst men in the world to are transphobic. Thank you. And he had to give it to someone. He smited their bloodlines like that baldness forever. I'm going to give it to Dylan. Oh, yeah, you're right. There you go.

Look at you. You've got great hair. Oh, thank you. So. I know. And my man's got a great. Don't die it. Don't bleach it.

You know what's funny is I did go blonde at one point, not fully, fully platinum blonde, but I took it all the way up to the root. probably in college when I was like 20, 1920. But it took me like a year and a half too to get that high because I was trying to save my hair. And then as soon as it got up there, I was like, oh, hate it. Need to go back. Because I can't fathom going back every like six weeks or so. Oh.

And I saw your video about like, like, I said, I was the arrogance I had. It was like a tumbleweed. It was so. And like, I wasn't taking like I had the best hair girl. I had, I was had the products, you know, the K-18 on standby. Not enough K-18 in the world Yeah, I'm rough. I'm a rough kind of.

That's why I feel like you and I get along so well too because I'm like, I want to take better care of stuff like that, but I don't always. You know one of my other favorite things about you? The captions, who's your lovely glam person? Adam. You have to come up every time with a different way to gas up Adam in the caption. And I'm like, she's going to run out.

And it's always me yelling at him. It's like nice but like mean? You know what's funny is he's told me that. He's like, every time you tag me, you write something like, you're like, yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, maybe if they learned to get it, they would get it. And then you're like, did you get some follows? And he's like, yeah. Hey, you don't know, you don't want the tags anymore.

Just let me know. Fine. Fine. Okay. Last couple of questions. Well, first I want to say, obviously we've been joking about how it's been years since we came on the pod. Yeah. But I would love to know what you feel.

feel like you've learned or how you feel like you've grown from that until now. Oh my gosh. I, I think that I am doing things that I could have never imagined and and surrounding myself with really good people and trying to figure out who those people are. Because I think when you do pop off, there's kind of a whole new world is shown to you and you have to decide what's healthy and what's not. And I think that I've gone through things that I could have also never imagined. I think that purpose is such a weird thing. But I do think mine goes back to femininity.

And I think especially hyperfemininity. That's where I exist and where I love. And actually, the one other time, I was, you know, Alok, our dear friend, Alok. Love Alok. We talked about you and how much we loved you. Really? Oh, we're dishing it back because that song, Days of Girl,

had come out. and it got taken so out of context in all the wrong ways possible. And Alok was like, you need to go on Drew's pod and you need to talk about it with Drew. And because I was, and then I did, and then you had already talked about it. And I was like, whoa, like,

I just feel so connected with you. And I think that there have been so many moments over the last two or three years since I was here that I would never believe. And then I feel, I don't know. You happy? Yeah.

Are you? I think so. Yeah. I feel like that's, I think that's maybe what you're saying too is that you feel a lot happier now. And I was scared to say it because it's like if I acknowledge that, like, is it going to be taken away? But yeah. No, I think I'm, I'm in a good place. Yeah.

Oh shit. Is this what it's like? I think given what you've been through, I'm sure it would be hard to believe that you could be happier than you were before that happened to you. but now you're even happier than you ever thought you could be. Do you ever think about like if none of this had happened though for you? Oh yeah. Sometimes I dream about it in a good way. Like sometimes I think like if I never did this,

I could be living anywhere I wanted in a normal way and nobody would ever know who I was and that would be a good thing. But I think when I have those moments, I acknowledge that I'm allowed to feel that way because this is a job that has exposes you in ways you never thought you would ever have to deal with or let alone stomach. or like go through be subjected to but then at the same time i think if i wasn't doing this i wouldn't be walking in my purpose the way that you are too your purpose i think your purpose more than anything is

to be yourself and continue to be yourself like like i said what you do is brave it is courageous and i admire you for it it is fucking hard to exist just as you are on the internet and i i slightly changed my um answer to this last one while you're talking because i feel like i lost my purpose for a second there because I was comparing myself to everyone else. And especially I think when you feel like you've done something wrong or that something's, you know, you fumbled a situation, then you start to be like, okay, well, I didn't do that correctly. So what is this person doing or what is that? And those are the moments that I'm not proud of because I was, you know, trying to be some like fashion girl or, you know, like just not showing up my authentic.

Yes. And so if I had any advice, it would be like sometimes you got to put those blinders on, baby. And you got to just do what you know feels right. And because it's not going to be right by everyone else's standards. Absolutely. And in comparison really is the thief of joy. Yeah, I agree. I think that's a beautiful thing. And the last thing I want to ask you about your book is what do you hope people take away from it. I hope they laugh because I really, I do be cracking them in there. And Dylan's fucking hilarious. Can I just say, I know sometimes people don't associate you with being hilarious because you're so joyous and talented. I get scared to, especially joke about like, I went there. I like, because comedy is so healing. And so I hope people laugh. I hope that

people like find it cute enough to like put out in their, you know, fucking coffee tables or wherever they put them. And where do you put your book in your house? It's actually, I have so many of my book that I have like, they're in all my bookshelves. I have multiple bookshelves. I'm good. I got there. The one day it rained in LA was the day that they were all sitting out on my porch. And so now I have like wet books just like covering my, like you want a wet book. I got one. 50% off. I have one water longed. And I also, I hope that people can relate to transness in a way maybe that they couldn't have before because I try to make it fun. Because it is like that's what's so sad is like it's become so scientific or you know fact-based or

like there's so much being thrown our way that we can't acknowledge how fun and joyous and silly it can be absolutely and beautiful so good and fun and messy oh just everything everything you could ever want I was like that's why I'm like I'll never understand an unhealthy and bigoted obsession with trans people and also people no trans people in their life. I feel sorry for them. So sad for them. I feel so fucking sorry. The dolls, yeah.

You have a, you know a lot of them. I do. And by them, I mean us. Yeah. And me and the dolls. I said, me and the dolls. We're locked in hand in. I mean, me, the dolls and drag queens.

Oh, you love drag queens. I love drag queens. Oh my God. Wait, did I tell you that? Bitch. Me and Trixie Mattel at the DMV last week. Why were the two of you at the DMV? be i can't i walk in you know head down berberry headband on just eyes down and and i i see this

flash of a smile here daly damn i look over trixie motherfucker mettle is it's like bald ass she's at the counter like already doing the paperwork i'm being told that i didn't have the right appointment or whatever right and and so then um i was there trying to up to i had an x on my gender Marker. I was like, I need the full she, her. I want the F. Yes. And like in 2025. Right. And and then she was there. Who knows what she was doing. But she's fucking just being fucking bald. Updating her picture probably. And, um, and like, what a fun person, but also a crazy person to see out in public. Yeah. And she was like, I haven't seen you

since Kieran Shipka's Christmas party when you kept saying you wanted to fuck Santa. And I was like, he was a good Santa though. So, yeah. young you're all oh miss him i love him i should call i should call i should call i should call santa i should call me and trixie canceled on filming on each other uh like days apart like she canceled on me and then i canceled on her two days later and then she's like i love this for us i love that we do this yeah and like there's no no harm no foul i was thinking there is a new like trans owned bar like it's like a doll bar in n yc i think we go to see nick jonas in the last five years we pick up teffi because you know she's not going to the musical no yeah we get

some dinner we go to the doll bar that sounds like my dream night a good i'll be honest that sounds like a fucking hoot i can't wait and then we get on the gay cruise the next day yeah yeah yeah and then we never get off in some ways we're on it right now we're on it right now currently we're spearheading it oh i i well thank you so much for coming back i fucking love you i love you so i'm I love with you. You're the best. I can't wait. Who knows what's going to happen next. I know. Girl, next time we see each other, we'll be on fashion police. It's going to be and be, d, d, deep, and obviously, everybody already knows you and knows where to find you, but you can tell them if they don't. And also please tell them where they can get your book.

My name is Dylan Mulvaney. If you don't want to follow me. I don't know, like, follow Dakota Fanning or someone else. I always said, like, I was like, if I get a biopic, I want Dakota Fanning to play me. Right. It just obviously couldn't, they're not hiring trans people. We've got to get Dakota. And then where I buy my book? Oh, where you buy my book. Yeah.

Maybe, I mean, if you, Daddy Bezos, you can, but I would love you go to like a local bookstore. I'll store. I have a book club that you could join and we'll send it to you that way. Gorge. And it's just, it's a, you read or audio, honey. There's people that, hey, the people listening, maybe you prefer an audio book. What?

Did you record yours? I sure did. That was a long week. It was. Mine was, like, was your, did you forget how to read words? I had to start every sentence over. I felt like I was,

sometimes I felt like my voice didn't sound like myself because I was listening to myself talk for too long. And then I started kind of like talking like that. Yeah, then I felt like I was talking in different offices. And then I was like, no, I was like, drop it, drop it, drop it low. But yeah, it's so, that was a tricky one.

It was. You could do audiobook or the physical copy. I highly recommend the physical copy. Illustrations. Yeah, and it's gorgeous. Are you kidding me? And I'll tell you what, they do care a lot about aesthetics of a book. The girls.

They love when they're pretty. Okay, when you think of like other than your own, what's a cute book? Ooh, cute. Let me think. Other than yours, I think this is so fucking pretty. I think, uh, Jeanette McCurdy's is so cute. Oh, yeah, yeah. This is great.

I'm trying to think of like book covers. You're like the Bible. I'm like me never, never having read. You're like, Romeo and Juliet. I'm like, Twilight. Oh, you know what I want? Twilight Cruise. Jesse McCartney on the Twilight Cruise.

It's Twilight Cruise featuring Jesse McCarty. Have I phone you? Well, thank you all so much for joining us on this episode of the comment section. Thank you to my amazing all-star guest, Dylan Mulvaney. Obviously, make sure y'all go follow Dylan on literally everything. She's a fucking superstar, and I love her, and you all already know this. And make sure you all pick up her new book, Paper Doll. notes from a late bloomer it's available now anywhere you can buy books or stream audio books oh my gosh

how exciting i love you i love you and thank you all so much for joining us don't forget new episodes of the comment section drop every wednesday you can stream the audio on all streaming platforms but the video list for free and exclusively on our favorite platform spotify thank you so much to dylan thank you so much to all of you and i'll see you next week bye bye