The Daily Stoic - Bert Kreischer Has a Stoicism Problem

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

Bert Kreischer wants to be Stoic. It just doesn’t come naturally. In this episode, he talks with Ryan about why Stoicism feels almost impossible for him, why criticism still gets under his skin, his hot take on why Nero may have been a good emperor, and some truly insane stories from his life.Bert Kreischer is a stand up comedian, actor, and podcast host of 2 Bears, 1 Cave. You can watch both his comedy special The Machine and now his latest show, Free Bert, on Netflix! Follow Bert on Instagram, TikTok, X, and YouTube Bert’s new series Free Bert is officially out on Netflix! Watch Here: https://www.netflix.com/title/81696123👉 Support the podcast and go deeper into Stoicism by subscribing to The Daily Stoic Premium - unlock ad-free listening, early access, and bonus content: https://dailystoic.supercast.com/🎥 Watch the video episodes on The Daily Stoic YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos🎙️ Follow The Daily Stoic Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast✉️ Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Get Stoic inspired books, medallions, and prints to remember these lessons at the Daily Stoic Store: https://store.dailystoic.com/📱 Follow us:  Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, and FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, designed to help bring those four key stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world. Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. We survived, the snowpocalypse. It was a long day, Sunday. Long morning, all the schools were canceled. So I got a little bonus morning with the kids.

And now I am back sitting in my office. doing some writing. And it's funny, it occurred to me. I was sitting in this very office. I was in this very chair. I don't remember exactly what I was working on. It's probably the wisdom book. Maybe, yeah, it would have been the wisdom book. This is the summer of 2024 and my phone rings. And it's Tom Segura, the comedian, who I know from when I did his podcast. And he came out and did the Daily Stoak podcast. But he was calling me. And, you know, these days, you don't get a lot of phone calls. Everyone texts or emails or whatever, but it's just calling out of the blue. So I answer, and it's certainly not what I expected.

He basically goes, hey, I'm sitting here with Bert Kreischer, and he thinks stoicism sucks. Let me play this. Oh, are we getting him on? Yeah. Hey, Ryan. Oh, come on. Hey, what up? Hey, I'm here with Will Compton and Bert Kreisher, and Bert is shitting all over stoicism and says that it's stupid and it's a dumb way to live.

and he thinks it's just, you know, like... They're paraphrasing, Ryan, but they're real close. But they're close. But we're close. So I was like, oh, then why? He's like, yeah, I see this stuff come up on my feed. And it's like, fucking whatever, you know, it's just whatever. Marcus Aurelius, whatever.

So... He said how the power of saying no is so stupid. You gotta say yes to everything. I just say yes to everything. He just answered the phone with a hard yes, right? He should have said, send a voice mail. He's a stowa. Ryan, can you just like, do you mind just giving a...

like maybe a basic principle of stoicism that we can, you know, like hopefully show Bert why this is a value? That he's angry at the wrong thing. Yeah. I'm here. I'm like a Scientologist. I'm ready to be converted. All right.

Okay. So the basic idea of stoicism is that we don't control what happens in the world or around us, but we control how we respond to the world around us. It's pretty basic. I think it's pretty difficult. argue with. The idea is that instead of spending time stressing about what other people do, you focus on what you do instead of focusing on the mistakes you've made, you focus on how you're going to do better next time. And it's this idea that you try to go through the world

around these sort of four main attributes, the sort of virtues of stochism, again, I think are pretty hard to argue with. It's courage, self-discipline, justice, and wisdom. So that's, That's the philosophy that has existed for, you know, 2,000 plus years, some of the greatest, most powerful people in history of ascribed to it. And then all sorts of people who went through, you know, horrendous ordeals, whether they were thrown in prison for, you know, crimes they didn't come in or dealt with exile and death and, you know, all the shit that life can throw at a person. They sort of turn to this philosophy. So it's not these abstract ideas that you would, you know, study in this boring college class. It's supposed to be a framework for dealing with the difficulty of life. Okay.

Okay, but what is your name? What's the opposite? I'm the opposite of that. What is your main issue against why are you rolling your eyes at Marcus Aurelius? Like, what is that supposed to be? Like, okay. So like, just the name. Is your familiarity with Marcus Aurelius, Bert, that he's the old guy that dies at the beginning of Gladiator?

No. No, no, no, no, no. No, he thinks there's just another guy somewhere in. that world that thought he was full of shit. Wasn't a Morgas or like Caesar's kid or something? No, he was the emperor of Rome. Yeah, yeah, same same. Same same.

Nepo baby, a Nepo baby. One of hundreds of years apart, but okay. Okay. So on the opposite, just the name Stoic is not how I live my life. Like, I'm not Stoic. So that was a surreal interruption. I usually don't answer my phone or have it on Do Not Disturb. I'm certainly glad that I answered that one.

I texted him after we followed up. I said stoicism is not some wallflower cynicism. It's perfectly wonderful to enjoy your success. The only problem is if you think it makes you special or that you could die without it. And he says, I wish I had said that. You are one smart motherfucker, which was nice. He says, so happy to have connected today, despite my cynicism about stoicism, I'm kind of obsessed about it.

And your name comes up on my tour bus sometimes. So we've gone back and forth. He's a nice guy. We connected when Mel Robbins was here because he had just had Mel Robbins on. Anyways, he came out to do the podcast on Friday. And that's what I wanted to bring you today. I think he's a fascinating guy. I think he's a funny guy.

And I just watched his new show on Netflix, Free Bert, which I thought was absolutely hilarious. And, you know, I wanted to see if his understanding of stoicism had changed since we last talked. And we really got into it. We had quite an in-depth conversation about Nero, as you'll hear in this episode. And he also told some insane stories that would only happen to Burt Kreischer. I think you're really going to like this episode. This is part one. I'll bring you part two later in the week.

If you don't know who Bert Kreischer is, you probably do. You're just maybe not putting a face of the name. He's a hilarious comedian. He takes his shirt off a lot, although as we talk about in the show, he does not want to be known for that. He's the host of Two Bears One Cave with Tom Segura. When I did that podcast, Bert wasn't there. But you've probably seen some of their very viral clips.

He was on the Tom Brady roast and many other things. He had a huge movie on Netflix called The Machine. which is based on one of his most infamous stories. And he tours arenas all over the world. You can follow Bert on all platforms at Bert Kreischer and watch free Bert on Netflix. Samantha and I watched all six episodes before they came out. And then it just debuted actually the day he was there. And we really enjoyed it.

It was hilarious. And I loved this episode. And I think you will too. Well, I love the show. I thought it was hilarious. You watched it? Are you serious? Yeah, all six.

Well, this interview's over. Yeah. No, no, I thought it was funny because my kids just started at like a fancy school and I could relate. You run into, I mean, my kids are in college now, but you run into those dads that are like, you want to do Coke? And you're like, no. Well, I don't know. No one's asked me to do.

I live in L.A. But, yeah, it kind of puts you back in being in school again because you're like, there's a hierarchy. It's weird with like the youngest parents. It's like, it's a weird thing. I remember when, do you remember the first time you heard the phrase, oh, it's all politics like as a kid. Yeah, sure. It was like, for me, it was all-star baseball.

And I was one of the best players at age seven. And I didn't make the all-star team. Okay. And then I was like, why didn't I make the all-star? I was one of the best players in the entire league. And they're like, it's politics. Yeah. I was like, what?

And they're like, well, the older kids, their dads are coaches. And they're going to make the all-star team because this is their last year in this league. So you're going to have another year. So you'll be on the all-star team next year. And I was like, well, this is so stupid. Yeah. And then I looked at my dad and I go, why don't you just become a coach?

I can be on the All-Star team. And he was like, okay. It's a lot of that. Yeah. No, I thought it was good. I thought it was a great show. It's all the matters. Thank you.

One of the themes I took from the show is like people not taking you seriously. Yeah. Does that feel real to you? 100%. That's why I put it in. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, I'll be very candid.

And I understand that people may receive this the wrong way, but after listening to enough of your fucking book, I listen to it as I sleep. and I think I understand stoicism now, I think a lot of people blow me off because I take my shirt off, and they kind of maybe look past the fact that I'm like a really good storyteller, which is completely fine.

Listen, there's a lot of people that only come because I take my shirt off. And I've had a really great career. I wasn't supposed to have any of this career, so I can't really crap. It's like someone saying, Jimmy Bufflett sings Cheeseburger in Paradise. He's not a good musician.

And you're like, hold on. He's got some bangers. Like, you're overlooking the catalog. Sure. And so, yeah, But it does sit with me sometimes when you're like, because you'll read a comment, which I know as a stoic, you're not supposed to do. Yeah. And it'll be like, this guy, all he does is a fat alcohol who takes his shirt off, which is accurate.

There's a little more. There's like, there should be a dot, dot, dot to that. Yeah. But, and then I leaned in. And when I offered up the very intro to this of the TV show to the writers and producers, is based off a real story that happened to me at a corporate. I went to a corporate and I was like and they're like they're huge fans they're huge fucking fans I was like for real and they're like yeah hedge fund I was in veil they flew me out for

veil it was 25 grand I'd fallen off a waterfall two days before and my wife's like baby you can't miss this show yeah 25 grand was like a game changer for us sure so I went out and I was like looking at them I was like I don't have anything in common with any dude in here yeah and I was like what do they like about me and then I got up on stage and I ripped my shirt off and went bananas and I started with my material and one guy was like, hold on, I'm gonna stop you right now before you get too far.

Do the shirt one more time and tell the machine and then we're good. And I was like, huh? He was like, just do the shirt one more time and go right into the machine. That's what I told everyone about. So like, and then we're good and then you'll come drink with us

and just give us nicknames. And I was like, oh, okay. So I did it. Dance monkey. Yeah, but for 25 grand. Sure. Shocked how hard this monkey dances. Yeah, yeah, I get it.

And so then I did. did it and then I drank with them. They ate pills and they were like, they were just rich. They wanted to do coke. And I was, I was paying pillows because of my fall. And, uh, did you fall off a waterfall? I feel like you, you, in a moment of non-stoicism. I love talking about stoicism. Yeah. Because I believe in the, I believe, and by the way, I am wildly ready to be turned on to stoicism. Okay. I'm wildly ready for it. We'll get into it. Yeah. I've listened to your book on repeat when I sleep every night, every night. And I pick up at parts and I fall asleep at parts and I kind of remember parts I can't tell if it's Tom or

Jeffson or George Washington and so like and I love the boxer slept I love everything so wait what book I have no idea dude okay is it my voice hi holiday yeah it's your voice okay okay so um in a moment of non-stoicism I was repelling off a waterfall for work and it was the last episode of trip flip right before I got fired from the travel channel I always realized this is all going to go away even life. I think about that in the mornings when I wake up. But I always, I have a very fleeting feeling in life of like, I remember the last time, I remember that when Berth Conqueror was about to get, I knew it was canceled, and I got into a town car to go to a theme park in L.A. And I remember getting in the town car going, enjoy this. This may be the very last town car you get in because they're expensive.

Sure. And I was rappelling off a waterfall, and I had a moment. I said, this, you've done a lot of really cool stuff for Trave Town. this might be the last cool thing you do. And I was like, hey, man, take a minute. Take it in. Yeah. And I turned and I looked, I was like 210 feet up. And I overlooked this canyon in North Carolina and I was like, this is beautiful. And I was like, let's have a moment, like just me and you, Bert, like just me and you.

And I kind of started fucking around. And then I decided to swing out wide. And as I did, my foot hit some algae and I flipped upside down in the waterfall. And I started getting waterboarded by the waterfall upside down. It's now hitting me in the foot. and it won't spin me back around. And I don't know. I have video of it.

I don't know what happened if I, but I let go. My backhand let go. And I dropped like 25 feet onto a rock. And I thought I really thought I broke my back. Yeah. But I didn't. I was fine. But, I mean, I'm not fine.

It took me a while to recover. And then I was laying in a hospital bed. I told my wife and then she was like, well, you have that corporate and veil. And I was like, baby, I fell off a waterfall. And she goes, hey, I love you. It's 25 grand. Right. She's like, Island.

We'll meet you at the Denver airport. We'll get you to Vail. We'll get you in and out of the gig. And then we'll get you home. And I was like, all right. But that's, so like everything in the TV show is based off something in real life. And I just wanted to pull from like, you know, the thing I'd drawn to about stoicism is, and I don't know if it's real or not.

I don't know if you have to work on it. I don't know if it's forced. I don't know if you're a natural stoic or not. I don't know if you are what I am, which is a natural, like, I'm a raw nerve. Yeah. But the thing that I drew from that, that I drawn towards it is, um, and I leaned into this is like, I am a very sensitive person, and I do want to fit in, and I do want people like me. And I know that that's not popular online.

I know they call that something like a try hard. Yeah. I go, okay, cool, but what am I supposed to do? Like, that's who I am. If you go to a party and I don't know you, I'm going to introduce myself to you. I know I'm not supposed to. I know that we're supposed to stand in the fucking corner, like we're all fucking Billber and Joe Rogan, but you're not. I know them. No one's them, okay? And so like I, I, Like, I am just me. I'm Burt. Yeah. And so I tried to put as much of that in the show

and show my kind of warts and all. Like, yeah. I would say everything up until when you're fiddling with the gear that you're not supposed to mess with. It seems pretty stoic. Taking stock, being present, appreciating the thing. That's all, what part of the story do you think is not stoic?

When I started swinging out going, like, let's have a little fun. Okay. I think having fun counts, too. Maybe the only non-stoic thing was be like, if you're screaming your head off while you're hanging upside down. I was. I was screaming my fucking head off. I was getting, by the way, it's the second time it had happened to me.

And the first time I was only eight feet in the air, so when I let go, I was fine. And then I was just like, I didn't know how high I was. Yeah. But yeah, I get confused by stoicism and I want to be it. But I felt like, I felt like at a period of time, I was listening to guys who were getting beaten up online saying, yeah, I read a book about stoicism. That's what I am now. And then I was like, huh?

Because that's how we got connected. I remember I was just sitting in my office one day, and Tom called me. and he said, I'm talking with Bert, and he thinks Stoicism is bullshit. And that's, I think, how we got connected.

Okay, so I don't want to shit on him, but my assistant, Kyle, who you might have met. And I'm just saying, like, this is a perfect example.

We're all sitting the bus one time, and he was homeschooled, and we were like, was that hard going to parties? He was like, no. I was the mysterious guy. And thank you. I love that you laugh,

because we were like, hey, buddy, we all went to parties and we didn't know anybody. Yeah. But we weren't, and he was like, no, man, I just stood in the corner.

And I feel like that's what a stoic does, is just sits in the corner and goes, but I don't know what there's, are they really? I'm not sure there's any mysterious guys at parties in high school. Those are called creeps. Yeah. By the way, thank you, Kyle, for letting me share that. But like, I don't know if stoicism is something,

if it's a thing you put on, or how you authentically get there. I would love to authentically get there. I would love to not be at a party and someone say, for example, someone go, it's so funny, I love waterfalls. And then I would love to go, I have a great story about waterfalls.

I fell off of waterfall in North Carolina. It was a great story, but I'm going to shut my fucking mouth because that's what a stoic does. And then it's so interesting, tell me about what you like about waterfalls. It's a fucking waterfall. It seems like you think being a stoic means being introverted and you're extroverted so you're not stoic.

Like, okay, so is it George Washington or Benjamin Franklin? George Washington is the one who's more interested in stoicism. Okay. There's some Franklin stuff, too, but George Washington's very reserved and... So he doesn't let his anger get the best of him? Yes. Dude, if I get upset or if I get my feelings hurt, it's uncontrollable. Yeah.

Oh, it's insane. Like, I'm trying to think of a good example recently where my feelings got hurt, but it's like, it overwhelms me. Yeah. And then you're like, well, shit, how do I get past that? Are there, like, things I can do every morning where I wake up and I go, So here's the stoic workout, you know? And it's like, it's like, you know, journal about this, journal about that.

Because I'll do it. I want to get, I'll give a perfect example. This is going to sound ridiculous today, but it sounds real the moment it happens. Tom and I did Christmas Day for Netflix and for NFL. And I fly home. I share Christmas dinner with my family. I wake up the next day and I'm really happy. It went well.

Netflix is happy. It was a really great experience. And I had Christmas with my parents. And I'm sitting on my recliner. And I'm just going through the news. I'm not thinking, and I see my name, and I go, oh, cool. I don't see what it is. And then it says, Bert Kreischer ruins Christmas Day.

Okay. Now, I know George Washington would go, that has nothing to do with me. Yeah. That has to do with this writer, didn't have anything good to write about about the game. The game wasn't that good, and there wasn't much going on in the game. And he needed to get clicks. So he used a famous guy who will get clicks and then used a good catchphrase. And then cherry picked comments.

Terry pick comments, he did from the post that were very targeted towards Bert. These are guys that one guy called me Bart and you're like, okay, that's a fan. Or a guy that was a fan. Burt called me and like either the guy's, either the writer's really smart or he's actually a fucking idiot

who was like, look at that. They don't even know how to say his name, you know? Yeah, you take it personally. Ryan, I don't know if you know how this feels. It happens at the top of my head and everything gets warm. Yeah. And I go like, whoa. And it's a massive, like, I wouldn't say like an instant depression, but an instant anxiety of like, I'm going to be thinking about this for half the day, at least this ruined half the day. And my daughter, who I think Georgia, who my oldest, who probably would have a lot in common

with you, she reads books with her friends where her friend will read one side of the page and she reads the other side of the page and they sit next to each other. That's what I read her she is, okay? Creepiest thing, I'd rather walk under her fucking with three girls. but so she goes, hey, and she breaks it down. She goes, the guy needed clicks for his article, and you clicked it. Now, granted, it's your name, but other people are going to go, oh, Burke, oh, we ruined Christmas because he took his shirt off.

Also, he could be right in the sense that you may have ruined his Christmas. Like, he's not wrong, like, I try to go, like, maybe it did suck to that person. Yeah, and by the way, I think it sucked, it probably sucked to a lot of families who at nine in the morning saw a shirtless fat guy, you know, drinking whiskey and on a parking lot. But look, that was what I was hired to do. Yes. So I should detach from both of those. Yes.

But instead I'm like, so I hear Georgia, the Stoic. Yeah. Break it down. And then my youngest daughter, Eila, goes, Google his name. I went, what? She goes, Google his name. Find out his Instagram. So we're friends with.

Yeah. And I went, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do that. And then she's like, yeah, you know what? I guarantee you he knows you. And he has friends that. And then I'm like, yeah. And then I go, that's not what a stoic. Like George Washington would be, it wouldn't be like,

how do I get Louis the fucking 13th number, you know? It's funny in the show. Your two kids have kind of an angel, devil, like one's whispering, let's rain it in and the other is egging you on. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which is very funny. So, okay, I think a couple things here.

So number one, we'd like to think that people just naturally are this or that, right? And if that was the case, if George Washington just never got upset, or Mark's real, this never got upset, they just, people said shit about them and they just didn't care. Then that's kind of like being tall, right?

Like, you don't get any credit for it. If you just, if it's not work, you don't get any credit for it, right? Like, like. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, give you a second with that thought. Because you've said some things. You've said some quotes that are like, badass. So yeah, if it really doesn't affect you, you don't get credit for it. Like if someone yells to me, get out of that car, you a black bastard.

And I'm like, that's not accurate. Yeah, it's not going to bother you because it's not accurate. It's so wildly inaccurate that has nothing to do with you. So, like, that is it really actually, George Washington is a good example. It's funny that you brought him up. I was interviewing Ron Chernow, who wrote a famous biography of Washington, but he also wrote Hamilton. But he was saying that what's interesting about Washington is that Washington actually, for the people that knew him, had like a fiery temper. He was actually like, there's a famous story about Washington. One guy, I think it's Gouverner Morris, Bet's another guy. He goes, I'm going to walk up to George Washington, slap him on the back, and say, hey George, how's it going? And so he does this. And Washington gives him like such a death stare that the guy's like I like he was like, I will never call him anything other than his excellency ever again.

He's like right beneath the surface a little bit fragile, a little bit sensitive, got a little bit of an ego. And so it's not that it's an act. It's that he's really having to work for it. Like he is sensitive. He does get upset. He does lose his temper. He does work.

about things, but he understands, as I think you're saying into your examples, that that doesn't really work. Like, that's not good. That's what gets you into trouble. Like, you can be the president of the United States and just fly off the handle. Like, we're seeing the effects of what happened when that happens now. It gets you into trouble, right? And it's, and it's-

So you're saying Donald Trump is not a stoic? She's not. What can I say? She's a pig. Oh, my God. So, like, well, okay, oh, that's a great, yeah. So he realizes that to do this job, he has to work actively to not be that way. So I think, I think everyone is struggling with it. And honestly, like most things, it might look easy, but like beneath the surface, the person's really working at it. And so I just, we should understand that stoicism as a philosophy is a thing you are aspiring to be and you're working on and you're getting better. Like I don't, I don't think I'm perfect at any of this stuff. Compared to who I was when I was 20, I'm. way further down the road, but I'm not anywhere near where I would like to be. And I read an article

yesterday. I got a Google alert. I don't know how I saw it. And I was like, oh, it's seen, like from the headline, it seemed positive. And I was like, sweet. I could use a little pick me up right now. And that's the worst. And I read it and it just is getting worse and worse and worse. And I was like, so it was like, first off, I have to do what you're talking about, which is like, you know, try to think about where this person is coming from and why it doesn't matter. And then I have to go, Okay, but like there's a reason these Google alerts go to the email address I don't check and why I tell myself not to click the thing. Like, it's more about like the process and the boundaries you put up to protect yourself from your worst impulses, I think. I like that.

Yeah. Like I deleted Google news off my phone. Yeah. Because it was it was just something I scrolled. Yeah. And then I saw like I like I don't enjoy seeing negative articles about my friends. Sure. But some comics love it.

That's true. They love it. I have a friend who is so obsessed with the negative videos that other people put out about us. Yeah. That I wonder if he's my friend. Sure. Because he likes them so much. Yes.

And then he told me he contacted one of the guys who made one about me. Yeah. And I was just like, wow, I would never do that to you. I would never like, like, I don't, I'm not that guy. I'm not. My social media accounts are on my wife's phone. So, like, I have to be like, hey, can I borrow your phone? Because otherwise, I'll just check them a lot.

And it's like, I'm never, when I do, I'm like so glad. I'm never glad that I spent 20 minutes on Instagram. Every once in a while, I'll need a message someone or, you know, there'll be a thing that I wanted to look at or whatever. And then sometimes, you know, you can't sleep. It's fun to scroll or whatever. But I'm like, if it's on my phone, I'll do it way more than it's healthy. Yeah. But if there's just one step removed,

then it's a, I'm a little, I'm a little protected for myself. I caught myself today. I was on Instagram and I was scrolling. And then it got me into threads or whatever. Oh, yeah. It was something about, I don't know, so it was something that was innocuous.

And as I'm scrolling threads, I see my picture come up. And immediately, and what I do, what I'll do sometimes is I'll scroll without glasses on, readers so that I can't read it. Yeah. But I see my picture. and I immediately go to this defense mechanism, like, get out of here, get out of here.

Yeah, yeah. And it was a positive review. And then I was like, it's so tricky. You go, I want to read it. Sure. But then part of me goes, but if I read that and give it weight, I have to give as much weight to the negative one. Yeah, it's funny. I think Hemingway was talking to if it's, uh, stop right there.

I have a great question then. Okay. For real. Yes. For real. Yeah. Do you think Ernest Hemingway would have been a better writer if he had gotten more sleep? Probably.

But doesn't that get to the id of the, and I'm using the word id, not knowing what it means, but doesn't that get to the id of the artist? Maybe a little bit. There's a book in the bookstore. I'm going to give it to you. So F. Scott F. Sherald wrote this book called The Crack. He wrote a book called The Crack Up about blowing up his life. It's the last thing he wrote.

And you're watching one of the most talented people in the world squander their talent, drinking. I've watched, I've watched, I've watched people squander their talent. Yeah. And I've watched myself squandered my talent. Sure. Like I've, it's funny when as you're squandering things, you don't realize, you don't realize what you look like from the outside. Yeah. You like, like, I remember a point everyone was calling me going, we're worried about you. And I was like, and I was just working so hard. It's, it's one of the things you talk about in the book that I've been listening to over and over again is that to pull back a little bit is the stoic, way. Yeah. To not overwork. Restraint. Yeah. Is the stoic way. And, you know, Tom and I haven't

talked about this and we're not, we don't talk about this publicly at all. But, you know, we've pulled back to bears. Oh, yeah. You don't do it as much? We do it when we want to. Yeah. Because what we were doing is, and by the way, we're not doing that for the fans and we're also doing that. We're taking less money. We're not, we're saying to our ad sales team, don't sell on against us because we were doing it, partly we were doing it for the fans, but we were really doing it because we were on a schedule. Yes.

And that wasn't the way the show ever started, and that wasn't conducive to us having a good time. Yeah. And then when we said, when we're available, let's do it, we did two episodes, and we started giggling with each other again. Sure. And when I heard you say that about that rear admiral or the one guy that was the fighter pilot,

in World War II and then he was like a bioengineer or something or a doctor and then, you know, and then he was the reason we were one, one, one, two or whatever. And he was like, oh, he was just burning it at both ends. Yeah. When you burn it to both ends, you're not serving anybody. Yes. It weirdly takes almost more discipline to walk away. Like, I used to listen to Mark Maren's podcast, which I loved. I know you had like a little tiff with him or whatever. Oh, no, no, no. But I think that to walk away from something that like, not because you're like an athlete and you can't do it anymore, you got cut or whatever. It's like nobody does that. Like, nobody just goes like, I'm good.

Like, everyone talks about fuck you money. There's the line. And then nobody ever says, fuck you. Like, because you always want more. And it feels irresponsible not to keep going. But like, to be like, I'm going to do less is like actually a pretty. It's both a kind of a baller thing if you think about it. But also, it takes like more discipline than staying on the grueling schedule.

Well, the fear for me, I mean, I can only speak about me. And I can just for anyone listening who's like, what happened with Mark and Bert? I'll just be very quick so that everyone's clear. Mark was talking shit about these arena comics who get drunk and don't do anything on stage and they suck and it's just a money grab. And by the way, I have Mark on the podcast. He wasn't talking about me, but it sounded a lot like he was. This is why it's bad to listen to what people are saying because you interpret it. And then I was like, I don't get drunk on stage.

Like I know everyone thinks I'm hammered the whole time. I am a very responsible comic. I have been drunk on stage, yes. But if I'm doing an arena, I'm stone sober. I'll have a drink when I tell the machine. But what's crazy is the title was Mark Merrin talks about Burke Chrysler. He never said my name.

So that was the beef. And then it turns out he was talking about another comic. He called me. It was, but that's neither here nor there. Walking away. Walking away, it's not about the money. It is about money. There's a money aspect to it.

But for the most part, it's like, am I letting down the fans? Am I, and I know that by putting out a lesser product, and I have been doing that at times, definitely on Two Bears, definitely on Birdcast. I wouldn't say so much on something's burning for whatever reason. And definitely not in stand-up.

For whatever reason, I've always been very adamant. If I say something very funny in my podcast, I pull it out, so I use it in stand-up. Stand-up's always been a standalone thing for me. It's my real thing. I always go, let me just take a, it's like when you're too tired to take batting practice and you're no longer helping your swing. Yeah. You're just taking cuts.

And you're like, I'm not learning. And I had to say to everyone, I'm working too hard. Tom and I had a conversation Christmas Eve about two bears and our schedules. I had a conversation with my team about Burkast. I was like, I can't just do it every week. I mean, I want to do it when I want to do it and when I'm excited to do it. Because then it'll be good, and then people will like it. But it is a thing about like, what if I get out of the rotation?

What if I hop off the merry-go-round for one run? Yeah. Everyone's on the merry-go-go-round. They might be drunk. They might be garbage. All the great podcasts, history. Hyenas, Matt and Shane's Secret Podcast, Andrew Shultz, Joe Rogan, you, there's so many great podcasts out there. But if I hop off the merry girl for one lap, are people going to remember to let me back on what if

there's not a horse available when it comes back around? Right. And so that's the risk you take from doing less. Yeah. And you just got to trust that they'll be there, I guess. Yeah. And having some idea of what enough is, the problem is that you always move that number. Of course.

Yeah. I remember getting an offer for my enough. getting like, here's an offer. We were in our old house. Our old house was like 17 hundred square feet. I'm not just, I'm saying how big it was. It wasn't a huge house for two kids, me and my wife. And that was after a renovation.

And by the way, we thought it was the fucking best house in the world. Right. Still is, but I still have that house. And I remember getting my enough offer and I put it on the table for the girls were good. Yeah. And then I blew through that money. I blew through that money and I was like, it's not enough. And then you're like, okay, it's only half.

You don't see that it's half. And then you don't see that a lot of that's got, you're already in debt. And then you're like, oh, shit. So yeah, it's tough. You always move that goalpost. Yeah. And walking away from money is scary.

And then also walking away from attention is scary. And being wanted is scary. It's all keeps you. Especially if you're me. Like I'm a fomo guy. I was the kid that if a slumber party, if I woke up last at a slumber party, I would be angry.

Yeah. I would be hurt. I would be hurt that they didn't wake me up. Like the old let him sleep. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Wake me up when you start cooking. Like, I want to be there for all of it. I want to see. That's my fear of death is just FOMO. What's going to happen after? No, no, that I'm not going to be there. No, that's what I mean? All this stuff are going to miss out. Yeah. What do I wake? Like I said, to Tom one time, we were a little drunk and it was early in the morning. And we were doing a signing, and neither of us wanted to be there. It was like a big porosa signing. It was, and we were been traveling like crazy. And they made us a cocktail. And I'm talking loosely.

and he was talking about Kim Jong-un and Vladimir Putin. And he's like, these are the type of lunatics that'll just end the world. And I was like, I'd do that. Like, if I could, if I could just be like, I have cancer, I'm dying, but I can end the world. I'd end the world and be like, that's it. No one lives. That's it. He goes, what about your kids?

I go, yeah, yeah, I want them to go with me. Don't, isn't that love? And he was like, I, by the way, the look on Tom's face was like, eh. Yeah, you sound like a lunatic. Yeah, of course. But I think I am a little bit of a lunatic. Sure. I think you've got to be a little bit of a lunatic as an artist.

Yeah. Well, that goes to the point. Like, if you weren't a lunatic and you were easily satisfied, you'd been satisfied and stop. So there's kind of this, like, like, a normal person wins a Super Bowl. And then it's like, fuck, I'm going to go out on top. But, like, you can't stop. Do you sit?

Because I think you're, like, I was driving out here. I go, this makes sense. Like, everything starts tracking. Yeah. Like, I had a hard time understanding who you, were because I couldn't, couldn't wrap my head around all of it, right? Huh. So, like, I was like, Marcus Aurelius, like, why are we still talking about him, right?

I was like, and he has a bookstore in Austin. It's not in Austin. No, no, we're outside of town. Okay, this makes so much worse. As we're driving here, I went, okay, this track. Now I'm starting to get this person. But a guy with a bookstore in Austin's very different. There's a pretentiousness to that.

There is like, I'm the Austin guy. I'm the Austin smart guy. Because Austin, Austin right now is this weird, eclectic place where all the gurus are headed to kind of get your chakra and, you know, it's like the best drum circle guy lives here now, you know, and he's like, well, you know, that's what I mean. That's like Austin. Do you know the best drum circle guy? Is that a real thing or no? No, I did meet a wild drum circle guy in New York the other day. Okay. Yeah, and that's why I said that. Okay, okay. We did a commercial together. Got it. So, but like, and then when I drove out here, I went, oh, this is different. This is the thing

I used to fantasize about when I was on travel channel and my life was a little out of control and my dreams were attached to my future. Yeah. I would fantasize about like, what if I just had like a, what if I lived in a regular town with regular people? Mm-hmm. And I had a regular job where my dreams weren't technically attached to it. It was just what I loved to do.

Yeah. Like, what if I loved building houses or building cabinets? Sure. And I loved the satisfaction of getting done. I'm like, that looks great. And I didn't go to bed going, like, thinking about my cabinets. Yeah. And today when I drove out here and I saw this bookstore, I went, oh, I actually

understand you a little better. and I bet you actually sit in your bookstore at night sometimes and look around and go, I think I'm living the dream. Like, this is everything I like. Yeah, totally. I think it's really good not to be around people who do what you do because then you can't compare themselves to them. Like, there's no jealousy because I'm not seeing anybody else's house

or anybody else's car. I'm not like, I'm not bumping into like my quote unquote peers going like, how do they get that? You know, I'm just kind of doing my own thing. That's the death of when, that's the crazy thing. in comedy is that I think people do compare themselves to the other people and, you know, everyone's your friend until you get successful. Yeah.

And then the second you get successful, it's like you lose, you lose like, I'm going to be aggressive on this, but I'd say you lose in genuineness, probably 60% of your friends are just like, especially like some successful ones are like, dude, fuck that guy. Because you made it or whatever. Well, they didn't expect that you to make. They were cool with you being a loser. Right. They're good giving you a lot of people are good.

given advice, but the second you no longer need their advice, it was weird. That's the American thing. I mean, that was like why I was like, he liked me when I was a loser. And the second I started doing arenas, he didn't like me. Yeah. And obviously, Mary never said that about me. That's what he said. But it's easy for you to assume that because that's actually happened. Yeah. Oh, it's happened to so many people. There are very few people that are happy for your success. Right. It's like. Because people think it's zero sum that your success comes at the expense of their success. that you took their toy and started playing with their toy. Right.

And then, you know, especially like I was at the, I was at the very beginning, I think, of the comedy boom, you know? And the comedy boom's still happening. It's just not at the pace where it had happened when I started it with it was like, Tom is at the forefront of it. Joe's at the forefront. Bill Burr's at the forefront. There's like Chappelle. They're at the forefront. I was on that second tier where I was just like, I was like riding their wake.

Yeah. And you'd go in. and you were breaking ticket sales in like every venue. But it wasn't necessarily your, I mean, I'm saying I'm talented, but it wasn't that. It was so much that people were hot for comedy. And the pandemic had just ended. Yeah.

And ticket sales were wild. And they were like, I want to get out of the house. And I had been on tour all through the pandemic, like doing my outdoor open air driving movie theater tour. And people are like, oh, his materials, he's been working through the pandemic. This is going to be good. Right.

And then your, and then your earnings come out. and all the sudden, dude, like the next day, fuck that guy. And you're like, whoa. And then you got, and you got, and you got, I remember I had like, you know, very like, like, like Rogan was all my team. Like, Rogan was excited for me. Anyone below me? I say below me, like, just wasn't making that.

It was all excited for me. Sebastian was always been cool. Tommy, obviously. You know, but then, but the list goes, it gets pretty, pretty shallow, pretty quick. I just found that, like, that's not good for you either. Like the person who's being jealous or going like, why do they get that? And that's not good for you. And I found like the more I'm like out of the scene.

Like a friend of mine gave me really good advice. He said, work family scene, pick two. Oh, it's work family. Yeah, of course. But so if you pick those, then you don't know what's happening in the scene. And then actually you do better work. And you're not like, you're not like, well, why am I not getting invited to this? They seem like they're having.

I'm just disconnected from the scene. And I think I found that's healthier for. me, not like because I'd be out partying, but I'm just not like, I don't know what other people are making or driving. I don't, I don't know what deals other people are getting or sales. Like, it's just, it's just better to just be doing your own thing and running your own race. 100%. I always have, I have weird analogy I always look for. Like, of the two you're talking about, I call people channel markers, like, as I grew up in Florida, and so there's a lot of, like,

when you're in the middle of the fucking, when you're heading out to sea, you're looking for the channel markers are heading the right direction. And I always looked for channel in life. Like, Rogan's always been a channel marker. Whatever he's doing, that is the right way you're going. You should go that direction. You know, Burr has always been a channel marker for me because he's always been on the more of the creative side. Now saying Joe's not creative, but he's very podcasting. Joe's very much, but Bill's always been like movies, TVs, scripted, you know, always kind of like, and his, the way Burr approaches a stand-up is brilliant. There's a craft element to it. I just bought a book called Seven Basic Story Plots or whatever.

or bought a book, let me rephrase that. I got the audio book for $29. But, and the other one is, I heard what someone say one time, something about, like, if you're following the path in the woods, then you know that people have already gone that way. Yeah. And so I've

always thought, well, the second you can't see the path anymore, the second it gets a little scary and you're, and you get lost, that's the best path to take in the woods because you're going in your own direction. Actually, it's funny, there's a passage in Seneca where he's talking about, he's like, you got to, this is going to mix the metaphors a little bit, but I wonder what you think about it.

So he says, like, happiness is having a sense of the path that you're on. And he says, not being distracted by the paths that crisscross yours. And he says, especially not following the footsteps of people who are lost. All right. Okay. You like that? I like that. Seneca, I always thought he was just a different type of Toyota, but he's fucking great.

Who's Seneca? Seneca is, so Marks, Rios is emperor. Epictetus is a slave. Seneca's right there in the middle. He's like a Roman senator. He's a playwright. He's a famous guy. And then he ends up, he has like the world's worst job.

He is Nero's philosophy teacher. I don't know if you know anything about Nero. But Nero is insane. Do I know anything about Nero? Are you kidding me? So Nero never, never danced while Rome burned to the ground. He didn't play the fiddle. Play the fiddle.

He didn't play the fiddle. But he didn't do anything when it burned. He was the worst. No, no, no. So hang on. I get really hung up on Nero. Okay. So here's what happened, okay?

I did not think this was going to go in this direction. So Nero was a pretty good fucking emperor. Hang on. Okay. Let me just say, okay. Give me your take. Okay, so he's a pretty good emperor. And he lasted for a while.

Yes. And the guy that came up next, he didn't really do anything and he kind of disappeared. He's like the Jimmy Carter of emperors, right? The next guy was the Gerald Ford of emperors. And then the third guy, Ronald Reagan, was like, dude, we got to let them forget about fucking Nero so I can carve my own path. So he goes, yo, let's retrofit the... Nero fiddled while Rome burned so that we can remember him as a piece of shit.

And that's what they were trying to do to George Bush. No, I'm kidding. But that's what they did to Nero so that this guy could, because I listen. I listen to a lot of stuff, but I barely take him. It seemed like he took a lot in. And so that's what I heard about Nero. Okay. So basically, Seneca is in exile.

The emperor Claudius is deranged. And he thinks that Seneca is having an affair with his sister. And so he banishes Seneca. Senega gets sent into exile to the island of Corsica, which is off the coast of Italy. It's where Napoleon's from. So he's stuck in this rock in the middle of the ocean. He hates it.

And he finally, he gets a letter. You can come back to Rome. It's from this woman, if you tutor my son. And her son is Nero. So he gets called back in exchange for tutoring this young kid who's almost certainly going to become the emperor one day. And Nero's smart. Nero is promising.

He seems like a good kid. Seneca teaches him everything he knows, and then Nero does become emperor. And for the first five years, he listens to Seneca and he has another military advisor named Burris, who he listens to. And so the first five years of Nero are great, not actually known as the Quinquium Neronis, or the five golden years of Nero. But what happens is, you know, they say absolute power corrupts absolutely. The problem is Nero desperately wanted to be liked, and he desperately wanted to be

liked as both an athlete and an artist. artist. So, you know, it's funny. He sounds like Vladimir Putin. Yes, like people, it's funny. Like, people get the thing. You think that would be enough, but everyone wants, has their secret fantasy of what they want to be. So, Nero, like. But you're talking to the guy that's on testosterone and bench 325 pounds. Yeah, keep going. He fixes the Olympics so he can win as a chariot racer. He, uh, he forces people to listen to his poetry. He's delusional. He's not that good, but that's what he really wants to be known for. So he kind of starts to spin off the planet. And then he gets really paranoid that people are plotting against him, right? Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. At one point

Seneca tells him, he goes, you know, it's impossible for you to kill literally all of your successors. The point being, eventually you'll die and someone will take your place. Like, you can't kill everyone. I need a Seneca in my life. And at one point, he kills, he assassinations his own mother. He turns against his mother. He sends her out on this crew, on this boat ride, and he has her killed. I know about that. So he loses his mind. He really is shitty and he loses his mind. And eventually Seneca, who becomes very rich working for Nero, finally goes, dude, I've had enough. I got to get out of here. And Nero goes, bro, that's not how this works. And so he sends Seneca into exile. Eventually he kills Seneca. Kills everyone. There's a joke. He has one of his generals killed. And the general standing on the edge of his grave right before they kill him. And he looks down and he goes, even this isn't up to code. Like, he's like, Nero sucks even at this. So he sucks.

He's good at first, spins off the planet, sucks, and then this is where the story gets crazy. When the walls close in on him, Nero realized he has to kill himself, but he's too much of a coward to do it. So he calls one of his advisors to do it. He botches it. He sticks the knife in and he kind of screws it up.

Nero does. He calls one of his advisors, and his advisor has to finish the job. And that advisor is the only, owner of Epictetus. So Epictetus is watching all of this happen. He's watching not just Nero spin off the planet, but he is watching Seneca like degrade himself by being associated, like Seneca writes all this great stuff about what it means to be a stoic, what it means to be a good person, and then has a day job working for a monster. It's a fucking fascinating, like,

a twisted world. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it. And I'll see you next episode.