The Daily Stoic - Bobby Hall (Logic) on Turning Pain Into Prosperity

Episode Date: September 11, 2021

On today’s podcast, Ryan talks to recording artist Bobby Hall (known professionally as Logic) about his new memoir This Bright Future, defining what enough is for yourself, the stigma of speaking out about mental health, dealing with pain and struggle in an expressive and creative way, and more. Bobby Hall, known professionally as Logic, is an American rapper and record producer. He has released six studio albums and received two Grammy Award nominations. Logic achieved mainstream popularity in 2017 with Everybody; the album charted at number one in the United States and was certified platinum, while its lead single, "1-800-273-8255", reached number three on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100, and was a top-ten hit internationally. As an author, Logic released the novel Supermarket (2019), which was accompanied by a soundtrack of the same name. Blinkist is the app that gets you fifteen-minute summaries of the best nonfiction books out there. Blinkist lets you get the topline information and the most important points from the most important nonfiction books out there, whether it’s Ryan’s own The Daily Stoic, Yuval Harari’s Sapiens, and more. Go to blinkist.com/stoic, try it free for 7 days, and save 25% off your new subscription, too.Ten Thousand makes the highest quality, best-fitting, and most comfortable training shorts I have ever worn. They are a direct-to-consumer company, no middleman so you get premium fabrics, trims, and techniques that other brands simply cannot afford. Ten Thousand is offering our listeners 15% off your purchase. go to Tenthousand.cc and enter code STOIC to receive 15% off your purchase.LinkedIn Jobs is the best platform for finding the right candidate to join your business this fall. It’s the largest marketplace for job seekers in the world, and it has great search features so that you can find candidates with any hard or soft skills that you need. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit linkedin.com/STOIC to post a job for free. Ladder makes the process of getting life insurance quick and easy. To apply, you only need a phone or laptop and a few minutes of time. Ladder’s algorithms work quickly and you’ll find out almost immediately if you’re approved. Go to ladderlife.com /stoic to see if you’re instantly approved today.Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://DailyStoic.com/signupFollow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookFollow Logic: Homepage, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members. You can listen to the Daily Stoic podcast early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic. Each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics. Something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview stoic philosophers, we explore at length how these stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend when you have a little bit more space when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal, and most importantly to prepare for what the week

ahead may bring. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wundery's podcast business wars. And in our new season, Walmart must fight off target, the new discounter that's both savvy and fashion forward. Listen to business wars on Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic podcast. I would say of all the topics and stoic and the most controversial, the one that's I think hardest to talk about is, of course, suicide.

The stoics talk about it, with almost shocking honesty, they refer to the choice of death as the open door, which is almost inconceivably casual to talk about such a permanent thing. Obviously, they did not have our understanding of mental health or depression or trauma or any of these things, but they also lived under real danger, whether it was plagues or tyrants or invading armies. Death was more real to the Stoics than it was to us, and so it was pain and torture and unimaginable brutality. But it is something I try to talk about the emails because I try to put

like a modern spin on our understanding, which is to me, a stoicism as a philosophy of endurance and of commitment to the common good and thinking about how our actions ripple through the world around us. So that isn't something that can be taken lightly. In fact, it's quite serious. And I think actually when you really read the stoic material, you get this sense that they were not at all adverse to asking asking for help to working on themselves. It ties into one of the biggest hits of my guest today, the rapper logic. If you haven't heard his song 1-800-273-8255, I mean I guess you're

living under a rock or something. It's done more than a billion streams since it came out. And when it came out, it was a particularly well-timed hit because this is the year that Chris Cornell had killed himself and Chester Bennington of Lincoln Park had killed himself. But it's a beautiful, powerful, important song about asking for help about battling mental health issues, and most of all sticking around, even if one sometimes feels like not doing that.

In fact, the number of the song I've sort of brilliantly done is the number for the Suicide helpline. All of which is a little bit of a prelude because I don't get into it as much as I wanted to in the interview, but I am lucky enough today to have as my guest, Bobby Hall, aka Logic, and the author of a memoir called This Bright Future. The way it works in publishing is especially if you have a podcast, is you get pitched guests all the time. And usually it's like the publicist, ad-app publisher, or an outside publicist. But when you get an email from an editor at a publishing house, you can usually trust

that it's an important book that somebody actually believes in as opposed to just like some thrown together celebrity project. And so in July, I got an email from Stuart Roberts, who is a senior editor at Simon & Schuster. He sent a really nice note and he said, Hey, I'm publishing this memoir from Bobby Hall. And I think you would actually like it. He said, and I think this is a good description of the book. He said, it's heart wrenching yet of lifting. And he said, it's the story of his resilience and self-actualization into the person and artist that he is today and

he said it's tragic, funny, profound, and a hell of a good read. And I would totally agree. So I said, of course, I would love to have Logic on. We had a great conversation. He was really cool, fun to chat with. One of the biggest rappers in the world, but I felt very accessible, funny, self-aware, and real about himself and his struggles, and that comes through in the book. Again, I have a lot of guests on the podcast, I try to read all their books.

I try to find something good in all the books that I read. But when I sat down to prep for the show I thought okay I'm going to skim the book you know see see see what I can ask them about because I have more familiar with this music. But I ended up reading the thing from cover to cover. I really enjoyed it. I took some notes too and I'm really excited and I'm going to check out his other book, Supermarket which is a novel debuted at number one on the New York Times Cellar List. Anyways, here is my interview with the one and only Bobby Hall, aka Logic,

his new book, This Bright Future, is out everywhere. And check him out on Spotify, because his music is quite good as well. Are you like a night out musician or are you like a regular normal human being? I think a majority of my life I was a night out. I still am a night out like in general for different reasons. When I was younger, I would just be up all night because my schedule was just completely

messed up. Like I remember going to sleep at like 1 p.m. type shit. And then I, and then it, can I cuss? Yeah, of course, of course. Okay, all right, it's lag. But yeah, so it's like that. Now it's a little different. I still work in the day,

whether it's music or working on scripts or writing or whatever the case may be. But there's just something special about nighttime, especially knowing that like, my son's asleep, like he's safe, my wife is asleep, like I've spent my time with my family and now I get this for myself. So yeah.

But we used to go hard. We'd go like 4 p.m. and my early days working on my first album was when we had studio time that we're paying for. Sure. You know, $2,500 a day and we're in there for like nine months. Really? It was like literally we get there at four and we'd leave it like six, seven in the morning

and then just go do it all over again. Well, I love the book. I thought it was very good. It's interesting to think about your journey. Yeah. Even from that point to where you are now, sort of semi-retired working on other projects. It must be, you must sort of pinch yourself.

Like it must be so different, your day-to-day existence from where you started. Yeah, I mean, from what, I mean, dude. Yeah, I started in this basement of my friend's house, you know what I mean? I started in the guest room of my godmother's crib in Gathusburg, Maryland, like bum fuck, middle of nowhere. So for me, now, it's just incredible.

Like I love it. I love where I am now because I had to pay so many dues and work so hard. And it's just like you're working in a way that's so ignorant. Because you have to be crazy. There's this part of you that has this dream that is so unattainable. Like, yeah, I want to be a big rap star. Like, yeah, right. Like, that is like never going to happen. But luckily, I didn't have that, I guess, I mean, it's weird, because I saw it with realism at the same time.

You know, and I talk about it in the book, it's like, I built a brand. I wasn't like, oh yeah, bitches in Hose and, and votes in Yats. Like, you know, like I was like, okay, I'm gonna brand myself, who am I? I'm a nerd, I'm a mixed race, but I look white. There's not really anybody like me out there rapping.

I'm, you know, I like sci-fi and shit. Like these are the things I'm gonna do. I'm gonna talk about this, piece 11 positivity. I'm gonna be myself and hopefully it will work. And I think that's why it did work because I looked at it from a business standpoint. Not like, oh, I'm trying to get rich or I'm trying to this. I'm trying to that.

I always made music from my heart and I think people connected with it. Also, it was just such a different time. Like, I tell people today, even my manager, I'm like, dude, I have no idea, like, in the world, how I would make it today as an artist. Everything is so oversaturated. I think there's like a million songs of day or some crazy, like, that's released. Like I wouldn't know what to do.

I came up on music blogs, dude. No, I think about that too. I started my first blog, The Day I Graduated from High Swoaches in 2005. And that was a hard thing to do. There wasn't like a million of them out there. And it was like, all these other people looked down on the tools. So you were the only one using them and you had this immense advantage.

And then yeah, now the things you would have to do to break through the noise, they're not, it's not a good incentive. It makes you not good, the things you have to do to break through. Even myself, like literally I have like six something million followers on Instagram, I can't reach them all. And the reason that I can't reach them

is because now it's paid a play. So it's like I spent my entire life garnering, getting those fans and those people. And if I post something, the algorithm is changing away, because I used to wonder like, man, why is it that I would get like millions of likes on a picture, even all this is so fucking stupid and I'm sure over it and I'm off the internet,

but when I was on the internet, and that's why, because it rewards rewards you the more you're on it, the more you engage, the more you this, the more it lets you have the followers that you have actually be able to see what you do. And in the last two and a half years that I've been basically utterly off these platforms, it like penalizes you for it. And I think from a million likes on a post to like 100,000, 200,000. And then as a person, you start to equate your worth to that. So you're like, oh, I'm not as poppin' as I was. I'm not as this as I was, that as I was.

But I wise-deaf, and was like, first of all, I don't need any of that shit, to justify my worth or who I am as a man. But I just think it is kind of BS that they do that to you spend your whole life building something. And then they just at the flip of, you know, switch, they just go, no, we're going to do things a little differently now. So if you really want this, you either got to pay us or you have to engage constantly and it's just kind of messed up. Yeah, it's a weird thing. It's obviously a very privileged place to be, but if you know how the game is played

and you know what gets attention, you can like, you're on a show or you're talking to someone or you're doing something and you're like, I know what I could do in this situation that would make this thing front page news or it would get tons of attention. But you have to go like, do I actually want that?

Is that who I want to be? Is that good? And I think some artists aren't in a position to say no to that because they need to break through. So it's a tricky thing. And a majority of it is negativity. Let's just be real. It's like, fuck you and you ain't shit.

And blah, blah, blah, and I fuck you bitch and blah, all this stuff. And it's just like, okay, that's another reason why I kind of wanted to retire. It's funny, because I was like, I'm retiring and then 11 months later, I'm like, I'm back. It seems crazy, but what it really was, it was just a state of mind. So it's like, I created what I'd like to think is my opus. My last album, No Pressure, for me is a culmination

of a hungry kid on his come up, but I'm 30, so I'm not rapping about dumb shit. You know what I mean? I'm rapping about being a dad and a good husband. You don't really hear that in rap. It's very rare. But I was like, I'm just going to be myself through this. I mean, I put every ounce of my entire career into like this one album. Because for a few years before then, I'd been like known kind of in the pop world. So I was making more pop records, making songs with Eminem and Marshmello

and you know, 1-800 came out and it was just, so I was just honestly, I was riding the train. I was still always making music from my heart, but I was like, oh, I can make, okay, crazy. Like for me, 2018 was a $30 million year because I was smart about it. You know what I mean? So I was like, okay, this is what I want to do.

And I set myself up to then be able to do what I want, when I want now. But it's just a crazy thing to think like, yeah, if I throw my middle fingers up and talk trash about an artist that I actually like, like do you know what I mean? Like it's like, but that's what this world does to you. And it isn't just hip hop, but it is a very prominent thing in hip hop

and always has been that it's like, you're not as good as me, you're not as this is me, you're not as that as me. And then it kind of pits people against each other. Like, I've never been in a rap beef in my life. There's a lot of rap beef with logic, right? But I was never in one of them. Sure.

And I've had, I've had basically every single person that ever talked shit about me later come up to me and be like, Hey, man, I'm sorry about what I said. And you just, you was just really popping off. And if I'm going to be real, man, I was just, I was just kind of jealous, man, blah, blah, blah. And then we have this conversation. And then I open, I open them with, you know,

I welcome them with open arms because the way I see it is, we're all just kids, man. You know, that's kind of one thing I've been, I've realized like while doing the press, I've been saying that while doing press for this book, like we are, like how can you tell a little six year old kid, like you fucking suck your piece of shit, your ideas are garbage, your way of thinking is trash,

like unless you are a truly mentally ill person, you wouldn't say that to a child. And when I look at you, when I look at my reflection, when I look at all Travis Scott and Rihanna and Drake and this, I just see like young pure artists at heart who are doing something because they love it. And yet they all get shit on constantly 24-7 by the internet being told what they should do or what they shouldn't do or their last album wasn't this enough or that enough. And that's another thing that I fucking hate about rap. Now this is all getting back into the retirement, right? Is every album has

to be the greatest album that ever or you fell off. you're over, it's done. I was randomly on the internet like because my my my assistant gave me his phone because he posts everything, but I just wanted to write something personally myself. And like one of the first comments I see is like, you fell off. And I'm like, bro, I sold a quarter million fucking units in my first week of my album last year, like less than a year ago. We like, what does this even mean? And I laughed it off, but what I'm saying is, I wanted to leave that. So it's not even that I really wanted to leave music. I wanted to leave. I can take criticism. There's a big difference between all these high hats aren't, you know,

are they're too loud or the mixing on this is weird? I'm not sure I really understood his message. There's a difference between that and a yo this motherfucker suck ass dog like there's a big difference. So I didn't want to subject myself to that any longer. And then after doing that and taking time away, mind you I was still making music every day because I do it from my heart. I realized oh I can release music. It's all here.

There is no spoon man. It's like, okay, I'm going to start dropping music and it doesn't have to be the greatest album ever created. It doesn't. I'm just going to have fun. And that's all that matters. Sorry for that very long. No, I love that. There's a story that I tell in one of my books about Joseph Heller who wrote Catch 22 and Kurt Vonnegut who wrote Slotter House 5. And there's party of this billionaire. And Kurt Vonnegut is teasing Joseph Heller and he says, you know, how does it feel to know that the guy whose house were in some billionaire or whatever made more money this week than your book

will make in its lifetime? And he says, well, I have something that that guy doesn't have. And he says, what could that possibly be? And he says, I know what enough is. And well, I love that story because it's not, you know, after Joseph Heller writes Catch 22, he doesn't stop writing books. Let's not the end of it. I think it's a difference between doing something from a place of needing to prove something or needing to like be something and from a place of fullness where you're just like happy with who you are and you actually enjoy the work itself. Dude, I'm gonna tell that story forever.

It's a great story. That is so it's incredible, man. I was, so there's an incredible radio personality who goes by the name of Big Boy. He's got a show called, Big Boys Neighborhood. And I remember talking, I need to call him. Make sure I call Big Boy, man, because he's a good dude. Excuse me, a couple of years ago, like two years ago,

as just before I moved to the middle of nowhere, I was on the phone with him having a conversation and he brought up enough. He was like, everything's just about enough this and enough that and I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, the whole game is, you're not good enough, you're not cool enough, you're not big enough, you're not popular enough, you're not strong enough,

you're not tough enough, you're not gangster enough, you're not black enough, you're not this enough, you're not that enough. And I was like, oh my God, and he goes, I know that I am good enough. And I was just like, holy shit. And it's true, we're kind of almost brainwashed in a way that, you know, if I'm not doing Drake numbers, like you know what I mean?

If I'm not doing this, if I'm not doing that, it's like, I've done Drake numbers. I have billions of streams, like I've done that. But maybe now I'm not doing it like I was, but I also am focused. You know, um, like one of the critiques that I've had in the last few years is like, oh, he's not like hungry anymore. Like, like, he's not that he's not rapping like he's on his come up.

Like, music is in his everything. To those three things I say, of course, I'm not hungry. Like, my fridge has been full for quite some time. Music is in his everything. To those three things I say, of course I'm not hungry. Like my fridge has been full for quite some time. So when I step to the mic now, it's dessert. It's going to enjoy it. It's done. No, I'm not a skinny little kid on his come up anymore.

I'm not. I'm accomplished. I'm an accomplished man and I understand that. And then three, you're right. Music is not my everything anymore. My son is and my wife. So it's like, well, this is what you get from me. And I don't think that that's any worse.

I think it's just more mature, but in hip hop, it's always about the struggle and the grind and the this. And bro, I struggle, but like I struggle to juggle millions of dollars. Like I struggle to make sure I can pay my employees. And sometimes you gotta let certain people go so that you can, like, those, yeah, I've champagne problems.

But hey, man, that's what I'm dealing with. Like I've already been broke. I've already been on food stamps. I've already been surrounded by drug addicts and violence and murder and guns. I've already cooked crack. I've already, like, I already did it and I wrote about it. So I think, I think, yeah, that I'm going to wrap about being a good dad. to learn how they built them from the ground up. Guy has sat down with hundreds of founders behind well-known companies like Headspace, Manduke Yoga Mats, Soul Cycle, and Codopaxi,

as well as entrepreneurs working to solve some of the biggest problems of our time, like developing technology that pulls energy from the ground to heat in cool homes, or even figuring out how to make drinking water from air and sunlight. Together, they discussed their entire journey from day one, and all the skills they had to learn along the way, like confronting big challenges, and how to lead through uncertainty.

So if you want to get inspired and learn how to think like an entrepreneur, check out how I built this, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon or Wondaria. When you think about the most popular sort of rap movie of all time, or popular with rappers, what is Tony Montana having is house. The world is not enough that there is no such thing is enough that you never feel good,

that you can never feel happy with yourself. But the irony of that movie is that it's a cautionary tale. I mean, he fucking dies. It's a horrible, it's a horrible cautionary tale of what happens when you can never be satisfied and you're willing to do anything to get more. Yeah, dude, enough. Like, that's the thing. I think that's the word of this conversation. Like, literally, I was on this hamster wheel. I thought about killing myself.

And then I was like, oh, 1-800-guy can't kill himself. He'll just be a meme. It's crazy. Like, I found myself so depressed. I had anything, everything I could have ever wanted, and yet I wasn't happy. And the reason that I wasn't happy is because I had anything, everything I could have ever wanted and yet I wasn't happy. And the reason that I wasn't happy

is because I was doing it for other people. And for people in my pocket that got paid, when I got paid. So then it's like, you gotta go on this tour, you gotta go on this, to this festival, you gotta do this opportunity, you gotta go, go, go. And then I'm here, excuse me, I'm here and things like,

oh man, you know, this isn't gonna last forever, man. Like, and then I'm like, shit, well how's that supposed to make me feel? And then before you know it, you're just this isn't gonna last forever, man. And then I'm like, shit, well, how's that supposed to make me feel? And then before you know it, you're just like emaciated, you're mentally unstable. You're in a place of just total and complete despair and unhappiness. And that's just not a place that I wanted to be. And like I said, it's just like, okay, I've already had a number one. And then I had several consecutive number ones,

whether it's number one over all albums, number one hip-hop albums, number one song, number one this, number one that. Well, who gives shit? Like, and I've been saying, like, the only, I have accomplished every single thing that you could accomplish as a musician, except when a Grammy. Hey, JT, can you hand me that plaque

right there? I want to show you something cool. Just please don't break it. I think it's on a nail. No, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one with the handwriting on it. Yeah, just grab that shit real quick. Perfect. Thank you very much. I'm going to show you something there. Hopefully there's not too much glare. Yeah, I can see. Okay. So this, this says me practicing my autograph, and if my memory serves me correct, because I can't look at it right now. 2010. 2010.

2010. Eight years later, that is a platinum ticket for selling out Madison Square Garden. This is like probably my favorite thing and I don't even look at it because it shows me like, dude, you did it and you did it in eight years. And here you go, JT, thank you so much. And it's like, I don't think I've ever showed anybody that really. And cool. Then what? What are you just gonna do, fucking mad square? Garden 20 times in a row?

Like, geez bro, have a life. Like, you're good enough, man. Go do other things. And that's where I'm at now. Like, no, I just wrote this film. I'm funding it myself, starring in it. I got a great director. It's just gonna be awesome.

And I'm gonna have a blast doing it. And it's like, yeah, I'm gonna spend $2 million. There's like, nobody just wants to drop $2 million on something unless it's like a house. But I do not want to look back and be filled with regret. And I also, I've been kind of in the film game for a couple of years. And it's always a million cooks in the kitchen and one director loves it or the head of film loves it. But then the head of film changes and then it's this and then there you are with this amazing script that they bought for 500 grand. But now it's yours again because three years have

gone by and it's like, you know what screw this? I'm going to do what I love. Well, I hear I have a Grammy story for you. Hang on one second. Hey, so I've had my number ones as an author. So I know what you're talking about on a smaller scale, but a couple years ago I was an associate producer or something. It was a favorite to a friend who was doing a jazz album and The jazz album got nominated for a Grammy. So I went to the Grammys as a producer got to go up on stage at one one a Grammy For the for the second to you know, there's like the real Grammys and then there's like the other categories, right? So so you know, I'm not really it's of course Grammys, and then there's the other categories. Right?

So you know, you go up for a real. It's, of course, it's real. But this is the story. So I go up on stage, we all accept the Grammy. There's only one of them. They only give one, but there's like 10 producers on the album, right? So I was like, do we get one?

And they're like, no, you gotta go online and buy your own. So I buy the Grammy, and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do? I'm gonna put a little plaque on it. So I put a plaque on it, right? The plaque says, when you die, this will go in the trash with all your other accomplishments, right? And to me, it's a reminder of like, what are people going to do with that or any of the

things that you have accumulated in your life, no matter how successful you are, it doesn't, none of it really matters. What matters is sort of who you were as a person, and did you leave anything like on the table as far as your creative potential? To me, that's what's interesting, not how many copies did you sell, how successful you were, how many tours to do, how many people do you support,

whatever, but like, did you do your best while you were in the game? To me, that's what matters. Everything else is garbage. I completely agree. I think it's so fucking cool, you have a Grammy. It's not a real Grammy, again, you have to buy it. But I did win. I was on a producer on an album that won a Grammy.

Yeah, dude, you won a Grammy. And yeah, no, I agree. I think for me, it's not about, I mean, none of this shit we can take with us and we can pass it along, but given enough time on this earth, it'll all become garbage anyway, right? So it's like, for me,

I would rather do the best that I possibly can to instill good values in my son, be a good friend, father, son-in-law, because that's the shit that really shapes the world. Even though it's so minute, if I'm being a good guy and you're being a good guy and she's being a good woman, and XYZ, it's like that will kind of trickle down. So especially in my music, spreading the message, peace of impositivity, be yourself, don't worry, follow your dreams, do what you love.

It sound cliche, but somebody's got to say it, and I'm more than happy to do it. Well, let's say 1-800 doesn't do a billion streams, it doesn't become what it is. I've got to imagine though, you'd still be very happy with that song from the human beings that you've heard from who it did something for. 100% man. I mean that's the only reason I wrote it. It was the first idea I had for the

album Everybody That It's On. And it was the last song that I did because I dreaded it because I was like, Oh God, I don't want to put myself in this place and write this song, but I need to do it. I want to do it. I want to help people. I want people to know they're not alone. And it's such a stigma. It's like, bro, it's kind of crazy in the last three years, especially around the time that song came out,

how much mental health is like a big part of conversation now. I'm not saying it's something. I started, I'm saying people before me started that kid cutie you go even even long before him but people being open with their emotions and I nobody was in the studio like I don't want to be a laugh. This is going to be a bang or a dog like nobody and that's why I love it actually. I love it so much. Well, I loved it and then I hated it. Now I love it again Which happens I think with any like hit record, right? So it's like I loved it because I made it purely from my heart

I was not thinking about this that or the third and then it became this huge thing and then everywhere I go I'm surrounded by death and sadness and suicide and It's really sad and then it kind of engulfs you because like you're the suicide guy and everywhere. You go, like people were just talking about death, that, that, that, that. And then I got to take a break. And now I think, I mean, I can't tell you how proud I am of the song, I'm excited to do it.

And it's kind of cool to know I have one of those songs that's gonna be on like now music compilation, 58. Like it's kind of dope that I can show anywhere. I think in my life or the rest of my life and play at least just that one song. And people who aren't even hip-hop heads can know it and appreciate it, it makes me feel. What is the thing about mental health

where somehow people think it's like a weakness or whatever. It's like if you're not around, how tough are you actually, right? Like, so it's a strange thing. Rap especially has that weird, sort of, ketchup on that where it's like, how is, how, it's always made me laugh, like how rap is associated with, like, tough guys and violence. And it's like, you guys sing and write poetry. That's what your job is, right?

Like, and I say that as a person who likes poetry, right? Like I'm a writer. So I think what I like about your persona too is that it's honest. You're like, I like music, I like art, I like creative things, that's who I am. It's so weird that rap tries to be the exact opposite of what it actually is.

That's the gladiator, man, in the Coliseum, dude. So like, if you go back to what hip hop was built upon, right? Just built on Sugar Hill gang, it's built on cool modi, and DJ Coolerck, and run DMC, and, you know, I'm black and I'm proud, and, you know, spread love throughout our community in blah, blah, blah, which is great. But then, you know, you also have another poet telling his life that he sees, and what he sees is, Vigia's on the street, and Cadillac grills,

and he sells crack cocaine, and he does all this. And I think at first, even if you go back and really listen to it, there was some bragadocia to it, for sure, I mean, that's what hip hop was built upon, bragadocia. It's like, I'm the best, and I got the mic, and motherfucker, what the fuck would be, it's like, it's funny, you know what I mean, it's fun, that's what hip hop was built upon. Brackadocia. It's like, I'm the best. And I got the mic. And motherfucker, what the fuck would be? It's like, it's funny.

It's fun. That's cool. But then somehow, okay, we want to see the Gladiator die. We want to see the blood. We want to see the lions. So it's just everything. I mean, look at film, cinema, look at Shakespeare, man. You know, fucking Romeo and Juliet, they're dying.

People are like, this is awesome. Like, there's something about death and destruction that we are so. Like, it's like almost compulsive that we like have to view this. So why everyone loves world star and everybody at some point has seen, seen like a fight on YouTube.

Like, it's just, is what it is. Even if you don't want it, even if you don't like it, you're like, oh my God, but like, I'll see like the bully, like, like, like, what is it called? Like, like, but like, revenge or whatever karma. Yeah. It's like, I kind of love watching those videos and seeing a bully get punched in his face. But at the end of the day, it's like, oh, no, nobody should be getting punched in their face. Like, this isn't good, but like, repeat. So I think it stems from that. And another thing, especially in hip-hop is the misogyny. So this is all, this all stems back down to mental health and feelings and having conversations.

So it's like, oh, no, that's pussy shit, man. Like women talk about their filmens, bra, and then we perpetuate this notion that men, and we're teaching are these young boys that they're essentially not allowed to have emotions. So then they deal with those emotions in different ways. Instead of sitting down and having a conversation with your wife or your girlfriend and saying, you really hurt me when you did this, no, I'm a fucker like puncher in the face or whatever the case may be. And that isn't just in hip-hop mind you. It really isn't. I mean, it's in rock and roll. It's in this and that. It's just in society. And it's a very terrible thing. So I think there is

a bit of misogyny as well that goes into like, oh, emotions are for women. And it's like, bro, we're all human beings. Like, what are you talking about? Well, yeah. And when you come from poverty or dysfunction, what you're really talking about is trauma or generational trauma that's not being dealt with. So I think the mental health stuff is so important because like, first off, like when I, especially the early pages in your book, it's like, not only was that horrible, especially the early pages in your book, it's like, not only was that horrible, nobody deserves to have gone through what you went through, but I think people struggle with the idea of like, okay, but I did go through it, and now I have to deal with it. Now I have to go through it in therapy or sobriety, or now I actually have to deal

with this painful trauma that I went through as a kid or as you're talking about, you're going to perpetuate that cycle on the next generation either through your art or through your own children. Yeah, I agree. I think for me, it was always a form of not even just self-expression, but just therapy, right? So I get to write like while I'm in, you know, a terrible situation or with my mother who was not really the best example as a parent, I'm writing about that. I'm writing about not going to be on food stamps anymore and I'm writing about these

different things, which is actually really funny. I don't really, I don't know that I mentioned this so much in my book, but it's funny because I'd write a rap and then I'd show my mom and I'm like, life is hard. Man, this shit gets crazy. And then she blows up on me and is like, why are you fucking cursing your mother fucker? Like that's my mom, which is hilarious. So then I'm like taking it back and I'm like, okay, here's this woman who's cursing all the time, but I'm actually using it as a form of self-expression. So there's some people who just don't like curse words

and blah, blah, blah, blah, and whatever. I mean, she's a little more lenient, right? Just nowadays, I don't know why, but because we're all going to hell, I guess. But when I say, fuck, man, I mean that shit. Like, I love that word, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, yes, I can be articulate and express myself in various ways,

but it's just like, sometimes that's what I like to say. So when you're trying to express yourself in this way and then you're shot down, especially by someone like your own mother who she was a writer, she never had anything published and she wrote on loosely paper, but she was a writer and she, you know, I think that's a part of like where I get it from but that therapy man It started there. It started there was nobody to listen to what I had to say except the page

But I think do just being open with yourself being honest like mental health is so important It is anyway, sorry. No, no, I think it is. And it is, it is nice to see it as a trend in sports and music and art as a thing. And, and yeah, it's so funny. Like we just went through this with the Olympics with with Simone Biles, where she was like, I'm not feeling it. It's not working. What's always so amazing to me is the incredibly strong

opinions that other people have about things people are doing in their life to take care of themselves. Yeah, I mean, story of my life, bro. It's like whether it's even to take care of yourself or to express yourself or to be yourself. Or to be yourself. or to be yourself. It's like other people, but I think so many folks are just not happy in their own skin, right? So it's like, I step up on stage and I'm like, Hey, guys, I'm black, but like not

really, but I am, but like, and then people are like, yeah, like it's just like, chill, like why isn't such a big deal? It's like literally everybody in my family's black. Like think about this for a moment. In 2018, when I released my album Everybody, it was like, people are, I don't know how much of the book you got through, but it's like, I'll call it, oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. I can't tell you, you know, sometimes you do this

and people don't know what the fuck they're talking about. I know that goes. You know what you're talking about, but I appreciate it. So, you know, sometimes you do this and people don't know what the fuck they're talking about. I know that goes. You know what you're talking about, but I appreciate it. So, you know, one of the things I talk about in the book is it's like, when I released everybody, it was the first time in my professional career that I ever actually really expressed myself about my race. So constantly it was like, oh, white, so you white, you're white, you're white. And then I'm in these doing these interviews and I was like, oh, white. So you're white, you're white. You're white. And then I'm in these, doing these interviews. And I'm like, well, no, my dad's black.

Like I'm a mixed race. Like that's how I identify, right? And most people are like, oh, cool. And then it's not really a thing. But in hip hop overall, as I got bigger and bigger, it became this huge thing where it's like, there's no way, man. Like, you're not black. You're not this.

And it's just a fight. it's like there's no way man like you're not black you're not this you're not and it's just a fight it's like an argument and so for me kind of dealing with all this it was just really weird because on three songs on an album for the first time in my career I just expressed that I say hey man I'm black and I'm white and this is me. And then it became a fucking meme. So it became like a like biracial meme. Like everyone, I'm biracial and they're like making fun of me. But nobody's nobody's going like, I'm Asian. I'm, I'm black. Like what? That's like so racist. Like, you know what I mean? And you have these like, people of all colors, especially white people, I would see doing it. Kind of being like, oh, he's by racial.

That's all he talks about, that's all he talks about. And I also say in the book where it's like, you got cats like black thought, killer mic, Kendrick Lamar, I'm black, I'm black at him black. I'm the blackest black, black, like every fucking song, they talk about how proud they are to be black. And it's amazing. And then I go, hey guys, guess what?

I'm two things at the same time. And they're like, shut the fuck up. And then it's just so, and I couldn't understand it. And the reason I couldn't understand it is because I have how much of a minority I am. So it's just a real thing. Like, and I even say this, you know, in the book as well, people are like, oh, you don't know what it's like

to walk down the street as a black man, though. And I'm like, yeah, I don't, but you also don't know what it's like to live as a black man inside a white man's body. And why are we even, why is this a competition? Like, I'm not mad at you for the things you've gone through. Why are you mad at me for expressing my life, my truth, and who I am? And even this right here is a hot take. Here is a man who is comfortable with who he is, who is just spitting facts right now. This is just truth, but because it has to do with race and because I got white skin and I like,

you can't say this in the perception of it, but it's just like, it's a fucking crazy thing that there was a time in my career where the world was openly racist towards me, but because of how I look, it was more like, he wishes he was black, he this he that, it was kind of crazy. I mean, I'm past all that shit now,

but it fucking hurt, man, it really hurt. Well, no, I can imagine, because it's taking something that you've had to deal with your whole life and then acting as if you're somehow using it to your advantage. When clearly it wasn't to your advantage most of your life. It was funny though in the book. Did your dad just get the worst vasectomy of all time?

Did your dad have two kids after vasectomy? Is that how's it even possible? Well, no, no, no, he had me. Yeah. And then he got a vasectomy and then 30 years later. Oh, okay. Yeah, a friend of his from the program from AA was dying and she was like, I want you to take care of my daughter. And he fucked her. He fucked her daughter. And she

was a heroin addict who would then go on to overdose and die from heroin, which is extremely unfortunate. And their son is my little brother, Ashton. Yeah. And you want to talk about, you want to talk about like having impact, right? You think about the multi-generational impact that your father has had through not positive means, right? And like, I think it's so interesting, right? We want to be the biggest or the most famous or the most powerful because then that'll create a legacy. Meanwhile, people are having legacies every single day

through their children. And that's like just not enough for them to focus on. That's like not that important. And so when I think about whenever I'm getting caught up like a work problem, I go like the real, like when I think about my grandparents impact on me, that's three generations. I think, oh, the most important project I have is the one at home. I mean, he said it better than I can, man, I look at my boy and I'm just like, dude, I

just want to be a good dad. And I don't know how like he is this 19 month, you know, year and a half old little baby. How do you blow cigarettes, moat constantly in a small fucking, you know, welfare, social security, you know, like box given to you from the government. And you're just this little baby me was inhaling this shit. How do you like getting fights and like, getting fights and seeing my mom get beaten by men or my sister's raped and sexually assaulted and coming home and all that? How do you do that to a child? I just don't get it. So I think like, hey man, as always I don't smoke crack. I think the kid's going to be all right. That's it.

Is that been helpful for you? I was talking to someone about this recently and I think the kids gonna be all right. That's it. So yeah. Is that been helpful for you? I was talking to someone about this recently and you know, I think sometimes it can be hard to imagine what it was like to be a child or to be yourself in your own childhood. I think like I kind of have my child that was dramatically curious, but it wasn't the best. And having a kid now helps me understand, because I can see my kid interact with my parents, and I go, oh, this is how they treat four year olds, right? Not great, right? Like this, like not abusive in any way,

but not conducive to being well-adjusted, right? Like this is, and I see this with my in-laws who I love quite a bit. You just, you just see how people of a certain generation interact with children. And then you go, oh, it must have been really hard for me when I was five years old, or six years old, or 10 years old, or 17 years old. You know, I think having kids helps you have empathy for your younger self in a way that's difficult to do. I think it's weird.

I think that's especially true for people kind of in our generation, right? Because things are more open, mental health and these discussions and us as teenagers trying to like wrestle with our emotions and our feelings and then finding other people who feel that way and blah blah blah So I think in many ways we're like emotionally wiser than our predecessors for sure But there's I think there's also there's also always been really great parents out there as well

But yeah, I mean you really hit the nail on the head dude like when I think about how I was treated as a kid like And every day wasn't bad. It felt like every single day was screaming and crying. And, you know, we had like a good Tuesdays every now and then. But, but yeah, so for, I feel you, man, it's weird. Yeah, because you talk about in the book, you're like, at the time I thought this was cool. And you're like, now as an adult,

I'm like, I shouldn't have been watching this television show with my mom, you know, like you, you kind of get, I'm like, I shouldn't have been watching this television show with my mom. You know, like you kind of get, it's like in the moment you think one thing, and then as you get older, you're like, I should not have been in that situation at all. That's insane. Dude. Yeah, it's like even,

even there's a story about me experience, like being sexually assaulted as a kid, which I didn't really realize. And even now I look back and it's funny, but the long story short is like, my dad's girlfriend, I was eating skittles and had me come over and she put some skittles in her mouth and passed them from her mouth to my mouth.

And she looked like a skeleton with van Halen hair. And yeah, and then we started tongue kissing. And it's just like the most disgusting thing. Like if a man does that to a little girl, it's like, oh my God, but there's some weird part of like if it's a woman. And I was little, so I was kind of like, noise. Like I was like, awesome.

You know, but now I look back and I'm like, oh no, that is like, that's horrible. Like that's not a good thing at all. So how have you dealt with some of that stuff now? I know you mentioned going to therapy and stuff, but how have you worked up? Because I mean, that's not, none of that is normal. And probably none of it is healthy to just carry around.

I don't know, dude. I don't know how I'm here today. So that's the, you know, it's just like, it never affected me. It's weird. Like it did, but I would deal with it, even in that moment of being like, noise, there was a part that was like, oh, but also gross. Like there's something that wasn't right about that. You know, seeing my

dad smoke crack, oh, let's not smoke crack, you know, seeing my mom being beaten by men. Other kids would grow up to then beat women, you know, it's, I just was like, no, we're not going to do this. We're going to treat women good. We're not going to steal. We're going to be kind. We're not going to tell lies. And I've, you know, I talk about some fucked-up shit that I've done in this book. I've done some, I'm not, you know, I wasn't like the best kid. I've stolen from friends.

I've spitting people's gatorades. We know about that. Like, yes. But those things shaped me. It was those eternal sunshine of a spotless mind, Joel, you know, as Jim Carey moments killing this bird and realizing like, oh, I feel horrible. So every time I did make a mistake, I think I learned from it. I think most people don't.

Or they feel bad in the moment, bury it down, and then forget about it, and then kind of continue to make the same mistakes. Yeah, well, you think her dad at the end, right, for showing you how not to be a dad. You know, it's funny, man. I was doing my thank yous and I like I feel so bad but I don't because people are like damn you say some crazy shit in this book right because it's like my dad it's just a piece of shit like you know what I mean but like there's a part of me that still loves him sure like I I texted we were texting for a while and then I was like, you know, this book is about to come out. And I was like, I don't want calls and texts from my dad about how I'm lying. And none of it's true and blah, blah, blah, because he either is denying it

himself or was too like high on crack cocaine to even remember leaving me in a car or XYZ. So I blocked him right now, he's blocked my phone. And in a month or two, I'll unblock him and I'll call him normal and just say, hey, Dad, how's it going? And we can have that conversation then, but yeah, it's insane. So it sound like very, very good boundaries. I mean, that sounds like what you're doing.

Yeah, but back to the, you know, acknowledgments of the book. It was very difficult to actually write that, even that thing. I basically thank my dad. I say to my dad, thank you so much for showing the man that I never wanted to become. That's like the most fucked up thing you can kind of say to somebody, but it's the truth. I talk about my mother, my brothers, my sisters, my father, it is just so honest. And in many ways, I'm sure you read it and you're like, damn, like it almost seems like

I'm, well, sometimes I am comedically making fun of people and joking, but I also explain how like we make fun of each other and blah, blah, blah. But for the most part, it's like, yeah, like it's true. Like Donna, my dad's girlfriend when I was a little kid, looked like a skeleton with Van Halen hair. Like, I'm a storyteller. That's the best way you want to hear that, you know? And I think it's also adding, you know, just comedic value

is how I also kind of coped with things, you know, like being creative and trying to be funny and blah, blah, blah. It's just how you how you deal with it. Like, you know, I got this, I got this line about that I don't even know where it's going to go. I don't know what it is. It's like a horrible joke, but it's like, you know, yeah, I was black and white and everybody in my family is black.

And I remember I went to school and all the, all the black kids, I saw them, it was the first day of school and I went over to go hang with them and then I hear, oh shit, it's a white boy, let's kick his ass. And I'm like, yeah, let's kick his ass. And then before I know I'm getting my ass kicked, then I walk home after school and I'm all bloody and I've got a fat lip and I go home and I'm looking at all my brothers and my sisters

and my dad and everybody's all black and I'm looking at my skin and I'm like, did you guys leave me in a house fire or something? So it's like, I don't know that it's the best joke, but I've had this joke in my head for like five years. And it's because of how actually hard it was. Like that just shows that joke says, oh, identify with black folks because everybody in my family is black besides my mother.

And yet, when I go with the people that I identify with, that I am a part of their culture and grow up and know everything that they know because I am them, but I'm not, how can I make that funny and deal with that pain while also doing it in a way that's like therapeutic at the same time? And whether it's a stupid joke like that or a rap, you know, on an album, the craziest part is when you can accept that, when you can get through it, when you can deal with it creatively instead of through self-harm or drugs, abuse, substance.

And then the entire world makes jokes about you being biracial and all that. I mean, just imagine that dude. Like it's a difficult thing. But luckily, I've grown from it. Yeah, I mean, the one benefit of an artistic career is that you get to take all of that stuff, all of the pain, all of the struggle,

all of the alienation and the mistakes and all of the one benefit of this profession is that you get to use that stuff in a way that if you were a banker, would not be of the one benefit of this profession is that you get to use that stuff in a way that if you were a banker would not be of the same value. Yeah, for sure. I mean, maybe for fun alone, but yeah. Yeah, but I've just said you can't, if you're a banker, you can't just to, you can't just take the trauma of your childhood and turn that into deals, right? In the way that as an artist, it becomes your work product. It becomes actually the source

of your alienation becomes the source of your connection with the audience. It's an artist of beautiful thing and then it transforms pain and loss and suffering into connection and beauty and art. I agree. I think one of the hardest parts of being an artist is actually releasing the art for a bunch of people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about to tell you how they feel about it. And the craziest part about that too, I struggle with, I go back and forth is,

well, if everybody says they love it, well, that's awesome. Yeah. But then if somebody says, oh, no, this isn't good, but it's like, well, we're still then holding value and what people are saying. Because if they love it, we're like, you got it., but it's like, well, we're still then holding value and what people are saying. Because if they love it, we're like, you got it. But if they say you hate it, we're like,

you don't understand it. But at the end of the day, I don't think art is really meant to be understood or not. I think we just got to put it out and know that we did that for us. Like first and foremost, we did it for ourselves and we did it for the people we do hope that it will connect with.

And yet, just like walking into an African plane, 2000 years ago, the first thing you're gonna look for are the Lions. And when you're in a comment section after you release a new song, I love you, this is amazing, this is incredible. You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You fucking suck, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, It's crazy and I don't get it. No, I think realizing that it's all bullshit is really helpful and that none of it is really of value.

Like, I have this weird thing in how my work has come out where like most of my work was sort of not critically received or appreciated, but it sold very well, resonated well with the audience. Then the book that I'm most proud of was the most critically received, well received, but sold the fewest copies. And you're just like, okay, the compass doesn't matter. It only matters what you think, right? Like, it only matters if you're proud of it, if you think it's your best work. That's really the only thing you control and the only thing you should measure, you should measure by the inner scorecard, not the outer scorecard, because it's the only one that you have really any consistency with.

I agree. It's just sometimes it's just hard to do, dude. You know, because it's like, like my worst quote unquote album is an album that came out in 2019 called Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, and it was like my most popular, most talked about, most loved or hated, had some of some of my biggest songs on it, one of them with Eminem. Like, it's just funny how that works. Like, it's such a weird thing and I loved it. I love it. I never understood the hate. And then like years later, people are like, oh, oh, confession's like, I love that. I love that. Or even even from my first novel, Supermarket that I wrote, which was super fun. And you wanna talk about therapeutic, dude.

Like that whole thing, like I was so depressed and ridden with anxiety. And I just wrote up, like took that main character and just wrote it like it was me. And I didn't do it for anybody else. And I actually came out on the other side, like so much stronger and better. And then people could say,

oh, this book sucks, or I get it, or this, or that, or whatever, who gives a shit. But I did a soundtrack for it. And people and it was like Indie, kind of like Indie rock alternative stuff. And it was the first time I'd ever done it. And we all have to start somewhere. Sure. And I'm happy with how it turned out. I love it. But people just shit on it, dude. Like they were like, this is garbage. Like this is the worst thing you could have ever done. You've fallen off. You've this, you've that, you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now it's like people can't get the vinyl anywhere. It's become this like sacred, holy grail of like logic,

vinyl and music and now, every now and again, like even just for fun, like I'll release a song on YouTube, won't even really tell anybody about it. Maybe I'll tweet it out. Only real core fans will know about it. And there's some songs I've done more alternative or foky and they're like, oh, super market vibes. My favorite. I'm like, get the fuck out of it. Well, and to things also, you're, you know, you're mentioning an album that came out in 2019, the time you're looking at a time span of three years, right? You know, some of these things take years to shake out

is sort of where they fit. So that's the other thing, you know, and I think the inner score card is more important is like, okay, what if it was garbage and people really appreciated it at the time and then as time passed, it became seen as the garbage that it was, what if it was amazing? It was seen as terrible. And then 30 years after you die, it finally gets the shake that it deserves, right?

All of that is... And that happens. I mean, there's so many examples of that happening. So at the end of the day, you kind of just got to go like, what matters is like, did I do what I was capable of doing? And is it close to what my vision was when I set out to do it? I think that's all you can do. Literally, every project I've ever released was never as good as the one before it, like to people. Like, should I release a mixtape?

Oh, this is pretty cool. And then the next one's like, it's not as good as this. And I go, I'll never forget, I dropped my album. People were like, this artwork is trash. Your first album? Yeah, under pressure. This artwork is trash. Your first album? Yeah, Under Pressure. This artwork is trash. Under Pressure. That's the worst album title, blah, blah, blah.

He's totally, he's not where he was with his mix tapes, which they said sucked. And then it's like, then I do my second album and they're like, what is this? An album about space, the incredible true story garbage title. This is so wack. You don't belong in hip hop. You're rapping about sci-fi, planets,

and Rubik's cubes of shit. And then I dropped my third album, everybody. And it's like, biracial. Like literally black people were like, this is all Lives Matter album. White people were like, this demonizes white people. Like it just didn't fit anywhere.

And now it's like people look back at those first two albums and they're like classic. These are like classic all-time hip-hop albums. And I'm just like, all right. You can't win. So you might as well not even play is how I think about. Okay, last question for you. Okay, wait, wait, real, real quick. When you just said is why I retired. You can't win. So you might as well not even play. And I fucking feel that shit. And that's why I did it. And then I realized, no, I can play by myself. Yeah. Right. You can do it. You can do it for different reasons. It's like a play, stupid games, win, stupid

prizes, as the saying goes. But if you play a different game, you know, you win. If you, if you're playing a game with just against yourself, like you're not going to lose, right? So that's how I think about it. Agreed. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, no, no, I know you got to go. So I was thinking about, I mean, I got a little bit of time, dude. All right. Well, it sounds like we're on the same page too, as far as leaving and moving out in the middle of nowhere. I live outside Austin, Texas, on a farm for the same reason. But walk me through the process of deciding to get out of LA and live a different life. First and foremost, not just on a type of way, but when you're where I'm at financially,

they be taxing you like 55% dog. Yeah. So I was like, okay, I can't do this shit. So that was a big one. I mean, imagine that. You make a million dollars, 55% of it is gone immediately. And we're not talking about commissions and business managers and management and attorneys and like who take their cut. Like we're talking about sure.

That's a steep price to pay, especially if you don't like Los Angeles, which is the space that I was in. And I'm not a steam guy. Yeah, I'm not like, I'm not like at, you know, don't get me wrong. There's a couple restaurants I like. I like going to Nobu might sound bougie, but I like good sushi shit like that. But I was like not at the club.

Yeah, you know, I'm a married man. What am I doing at the club? I'm not at the club unless unless I'm paid to be there to like rap and they get the fuck out of there. But anyway, yeah, so it was that it was having a child. I didn't necessarily want, you know, I don't know. I just, I don't know. I mean, my wife was born there and she's awesome,

but it just wasn't for me. It just didn't feel right. It was also like, it's the desert. Like when you really think about it, it's like the desert and- Los Angeles is the desert? Yeah, it is. I mean, there's no like vegetation.

You know what I mean? It's like tumbleweeds and shit. So I was like, all right, I want to go somewhere lush. I really love Maryland, but I don't want to go back there. So I'll try to find some. And we found a really beautiful house in Utah. It's funny because we looked all over. We looked in Japan.

We looked in London. We looked in Canada. We looked all over. We looked in Japan, we looked in London, we looked in Canada, we looked all over the States. Just like where could we live? That could be amazing, but we found like the most beautiful house here. And who knows how long we'll even be here. I'm like a nomadic in that way, but we loved it. And we're here and it's so quiet and slow.

And we just hang out and shoot guns and watch movies and chill, man It's great. No, I know that I know that vibe very well and you know, I think it actually makes it easier To to to do art the way you're talking about where If you're not running into a bunch of people who do the same job as you It's easier not to compare yourself and to just do what you think is good at your own schedule. It's also been very humbling because like I get recognized for sure, but like a lot of the time, dude, like I don't out here, especially. Like I would go in LA, it's just it's LA. Like I'd go to like the store for coconut water.

And it's just like, oh, Lord, she's going, oh my God, like immediately like pulling their phone out and shit. And that's cool, but then it kind of gets old. So then when I moved here, I was like, oh, nobody really knows who I am. And then I was like, oh my God, am I falling off? Am I not, do people not care about me anyway? And I kind of like it because who knows if I will continue

to be a big name in music, or if I'll just kind of be a guy who had like a really great run and has a solid fan base and he makes music, and now I'm getting into film. So am I going to be more known for that in 10 years? Am I this or that? Who knows? But it's been like a nice wind down of kind of just realizing I don't need to be this huge mega celebrity,

what a bullshit, you know, and I like it. At first it was difficult and sometimes it still is. Like I actually had a, I cried like a week ago in bed with my wife because I was like, and it was, it was a happy, it was a weird cry, it wasn't really a sad cry, it was like that part of my life is over. Yeah.

Like it just, it just is. Now, by my own doing, Seinfeld, season nine, motherfucker, like I don't want to do a bunch of interviews and talk about BS, I don't want to be on Instagram all the time. I don't want to go do interviews with people who don't care about me and don't even know just because I'm a hot topic. I don't wanna be on Instagram all the time. I don't wanna go do interviews with people who don't care about me and don't even know just cause I'm a hot topic.

I don't wanna be in the studio like, okay, what's hot right now? What's Drake rapping on? What's this? No, I don't wanna do that. And because I don't wanna do that, I know that maybe the music that I'm gonna make here on out might not necessarily be the most popular.

I'll still do hundreds of millions of plays and on Spotify andotifying data. That's great. But it's different. Yeah, it's different. It's totally different. And just dude, my main foot, like literally, like I said, is this film that I wrote?

That's all I care about right now. No, that's amazing. I think it's more sustainable too. I think that's the other thing. It's like, when you're not a professional athlete, you're worried about your body collapsing at any moment. How can you set up a lifestyle or a career that you actually can do it as long as you want to do it? I think that's important. And I think asking yourself like why, you know, like you said,

enough. I'll tell you this, man, I have enough money, you know what I mean? Like I have a net, like it doesn't need to be this. I used to look back on 2018, my $30 million a year, my, you know, biggest song in the world, all this other stuff, and I used to be scared. Like I hope this isn't the pinnacle. Like I hope this isn't the height of me is logic. Like I really, I really hope, and then I started being like, well, why not? I mean, it was pretty good. Yeah, you made a lot of money. You made an impact. So what? If that's your biggest year and you're headlining lollipalooza for 100,000 people, maybe, maybe you do that again,

maybe you don't. And the crazy part is, is that I know I can do it. Like if I want to, I can call, you know, I don't, Marshmallow or so and say, and be like, yo, let's get a band back together, man, we go and we going. But why? Like, for me, it's like, if I'm going to do a song with Marshmallow, it's just because we're homies and it'll be fun. Now it's not to, it's not the strategic like, okay, if we got logic and Marshmallow on a record, and we got it, now it's just like, no, no, no, no, no, like, literally, I'm working on an album right now that I haven't really talked about and

It is just so fun It's just some route. It's some raw hip-hop tribe called Quest Shit. That's like so not even Popular and I'm doing it because I love it and that and that's it. That's all that matters That's the best man. I'm very happy for you. That is the bright future, right? Getting to do what you want when you want it. 100%. Dude, it was so awesome to me. Thank you for doing this. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being good at what you do, man, because it's always really cool to, yeah, seriously, to like speak with somebody who takes the time and actually cares, you know, to talk to the person about things that matter to them. And I feel like we're very like minded in that way.

So, thank you. Well, I think what I'm actually good at is writing books. This is just something, you know, you also do, but I think you'd like the books if you ever checked them out. Oh, dude, 100%. Actually, I'm going to order them all. JT, make sure I do that. I'm not lying.

All right. I study and I love to, I just love to buy books. It's like bad because I haven't read all of them. But you know what I mean? But I just love it. I love to be surrounded by books. And I'm definitely excited to, yeah, check out your stuff. You're a very articulate man.

Well, thank you. Yeah, I'm excited. Well, hit me up. Hit me up if you like them. And we'll stay in touch. very articulate man. Well, thank you. Yeah, I'm excited. Well, hit me up, hit me up if you like them and we'll stay in touch. Okay, man, I'm really sorry I was five minutes late. Never have a good improvement. Not a problem at all.

This is awesome. My newest book, Courage is Calling Fortune Favors, The Brave is now available for pre-order. We've got a bunch of amazing bonuses. You can get signed copies, of course. I'm so proud of this book. General Jim Mattis is called it a superb handbook for crafting a purposeful life. Matthew McConaughey also a father called it an urgent call to arms to each and all of us. I do hope you check it out.

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