The Daily Stoic - BONUS | No One Is Coming to Give You Permission

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

If your New Year motivation didn’t make it to February, this episode is for you. Ryan and his business partner and longtime friend, Brent Underwood, talk about how waiting for permission, perfect conditions, or external validation quietly turns into procrastination, even for high performers. They discuss why open-ended ambitions are harder than deadlines, how success can actually make starting new things scarier, and the trap of telling yourself, “I’ll get to it later.”Let’s not write the year off just yet. The Daily Stoic New Year New You challenge is opening back up for a limited time. Learn more and sign up today at dailystoic.com/challenge.👉 Get The Daily Stoic New Year New You & all other Daily Stoic courses for FREE when you join Daily Stoic Life | dailystoic.com/lifeBrent Underwood is the owner of Cerro Gordo, an original boomtown silver mine, established in 1865. Check out Brent's book Ghost Town Living: Mining for Purpose and Chasing Dreams at the Edge of Death Valley at The Painted Porch. Youtube: @GhostTownLivingIG: @BrentWUnderwood🎙️ Support the podcast and go deeper into Stoicism by subscribing to The Daily Stoic Premium - unlock ad-free listening, early access, and bonus content: https://dailystoic.supercast.com/🎥 Watch the video episodes on The Daily Stoic YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos✉️ Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Get Stoic inspired books, medallions, and prints to remember these lessons at the Daily Stoic Store: https://store.dailystoic.com/📱 Follow us:  Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, and FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the Daily Stoic podcast, designed to help bring those four key stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world. Okay, so I was thinking about you the other day. I'm going to call you out for a problem you have. You sometimes struggle to start things for which there is not like a contract or a like commitment that you would like get in trouble if you didn't meet. Yes. Why do you think that is?

I always feel like it's like opportunity cost because as we're all very busy, I'm thinking through my every day, there's so many hours in the day. Sure. I think, okay, today I have 12 hours optimistically that I can do whatever I want. And a lot of those are going to be eaten up with small tasks. So the bigger tasks, whether they're, I have to, at Cerro Gordo, I have to manage a commercial hotel build. I'm playing general contractor.

I am the cameraman and everything else for videos. We have Daily Stoic, which has 10 employees that need things every single day. I think it's way more than 10, but sure. Yeah, so we have Daily Stoic that has many employees that need things every day for me. And so it's kind of like a balancing act where I have a lot of things that I would like to do. You know, like for instance, right now I'm thinking about working on a book. Yes. And so a book is a thing that is important to me, but when I know that I would be working

on it in sacrifice to something that has a more urgent commitment to it, then things get reshuffled. And I guess I get it at some level because sometimes people ask me, like, why do you not self-publish? Yeah. And I do feel like the open-ended nature of like, no one is asking for it, no one necessarily wants it. I get to make all the decisions, which means I can always make an excuse. I do find that open-endedness to be less than ideal. So like there's something to me about like, I've sold like a couple books in a row. So it's like, I always know what I'm supposed to be doing.

But what does, for you, like, what does having a piece of paper change? Because actually, I remember when you worked on your last book, you ended up pushing it like a bunch of things. It's not like you actually, you didn't breach. You weren't in breach of the contract, but it's not like the contract was like some document you refused to challenge. Yeah. It's like, why do kids procrastinating on their homework, you know? It's probably a similar thing where it's like, for me, But if a kid could be like, actually I don't have to, I can turn it in whenever I want.

Yes. Which is like effectively what these contracts mean anyway. Yeah. There's something about it. It's like, I'm just wondering if there's like a little bit of like imposter syndrome in you that's like you like you don't think it's real until you've like brought someone else in. Probably way. I'm probably looking for like a stamp of approval that like this is worth your time. Also like outsourcing that part of it as well.

Yeah. And so I think that like with videos as I've gone along, it's gone. from like originally I created them because I really loved to create them and I still love creating them but then eventually it becomes more of a business where I have like a contract with advertisers that say hey you need to produce this many videos per year and then it's like I'm a professional videographer at this point you know and so there's like that nature of it and so I think with the book it's you are looking for somebody to tell you this is a good enough idea to spend a lot of time on and I think that that can come from like a self-motivated

place if you have the bandwidth to like yeah have that capacity but I think in a truncated manner, I'm looking for something to say, hey, give this some time when there's a lot of other responsibilities on the horizon. The video thing is interesting to me because, like, I'm wondering if like having a slot, like a sponsor helps you get out of your own head. I'm not like piling on you. I think this is actually a thing a lot of people have, right? You're like, if it has to go out by Sunday, it goes out by Sunday, even though it doesn't have to. And you could call the people and be like, hey, I don't have it this week. be like, fine. But there's something about that thing just like, just it's slightly enough that

that it gets you out of your own head in a way that makes you more productive. And by the way, I've never seen anything that you've done. And I thought like, that seemed rushed. He was clearly just doing that to like check a box. That's like the opposite of what your things do. So I'm just wondering what that is. It is helpful. I think like there's like a perfectionist nature to it as anybody that like creates anything I think comes to. So like I could tinker on a video for a year and still be tinkering on it and tinkering on it. And so I think that's, like having that deadline is helpful. And like I think looking to you, like you are like a machine where you have a book every year, which is helpful. And like we both know authors some close to us that have

tinkered on books for a very long time and not made a lot of progress on those books. I was just reading Camus the Plague and this guy's like, he's been working on the first sentence in this book for like 10 years or something. And it's like you look at all the different iterations of the sentences and they're like all like solid bees. By the way, it doesn't matter. But like that's what happens. You just like get in your own head about it. Well, I think with even going back to my book, like, in full transparency, like, I pushed the book numerous times. And I think that it got to a point where basically the publisher is like,

if you push again, we will cancel the contract. And so then I got the book done suddenly. Yeah. And so sometimes it does take that person that, like, you know, you're going to get this done, like that third party. And that could probably be like accountability partner. I know a lot of people have like success having like writing partners in that case. There's also, I remember Tim Ferriss told me about this website where you're like,

okay, like you have to put, you put like a thousand dollars in escrow. And if you like don't meet the deadline, it like gives the money to like the KKK or something. And you're just like, you would never want that. And so, so like it just, it forces some like horrifying possibility upon you that if you don't finish or start or whatever it is, it will. Yeah. Everybody's individual, right? And it's like, I've come to learn that a little bit. And I obviously, because even not, you know that. Like I need some type of like deadline, somebody else telling me that this is what I need to be focusing on. Otherwise, like, I focus on the other things that somebody else has told me that with. But it's funny because, like, I don't think anyone would look at you and be like,

oh, that's definitely not a self-starter. Like, you're, you're perennially self-employed. You've started multiple businesses, built. Most of what you have done at Cerro Gordo or other projects, like, not only did nobody ask you to do it or tell you to do it, but like they told you it would be impossible and it wouldn't work. And, like, it was only by self-motivation. So that's, the other thing is it's like usually I guess I would take some solace in it it's like most of the people who are high achievers also struggle with like high amounts of procrastination and excuses and paralyzation and perfectionism but it's interesting that you like sometimes you struggle with it or in some cases you clearly struggle with it and then in other cases it's like

preposterously not an issue for you I think I mean I'm fortunate in the fact that like all these things that we're discussing are things that I want to do yeah so none of them are things I inherently do not want to do. And so like, it's not that I'm pushing him off because I don't want to do it. It's just I'm pushing off because like I have this checklist of a lot of other things. And I do think, and this is the nature of life, right? Like, if the book sold tomorrow, I would find the time to write it in addition to everything else. But did you think like, because you, you sent it out and you didn't get all the responses you wanted. Yeah. If someone had said we're in for one dollar. Yeah. I would know. That would have been totally different than this kind of middling response that you got. And it's like inconsequential distinction. I do think a lot of this imposter syndrome. So, like, the idea of just writing a book on spec, right? Just writing a book feels like every person in the world is, I'm going to write a book, you know? And then it's suddenly just like they're writing a book.

But that's how I did, trust my mind. I mean, my whole life changed because I basically quit my job, moved across the country, and worked for six months on a book thing that no one was asking for and no one thought would work, right? So, yeah, I wonder if in retrospect that was delusion, was that confidence? was that, or maybe I just wasn't thinking about it at all. Was it lack of like, you have a lot more on your plate these days, you know what I mean? That's true. But I remember somebody, what somebody said to me, they were like, look, you'll either sell it or you'll self-publish it.

So either way, it's going to come out and it's worth you doing. And I just remember that being very freeing. I was like, okay, I'll just get started. Which is like the main thing. It wasn't like two months in, none of this was a problem. Right. But it was just the like, should I or should not? that's where you're held up.

I think going out as imposter syndrome, too, it's like this book that I'm hoping to write is more of like a narrative's nonfiction. It's a bigger swing. It's more of a writing book, more than less than anything else. And so, like, I want a outlet that distinguishes between writers and non-writers

to say that you're a writer, you know what I mean? But can't you let the finish product settle that discussion? Like, I guess what I'm saying is like, like, why don't you just take the somewhat ambivalry, response that you got and use it as fuel to be like, oh, I'm going to show you that I can do this. I definitely part of it. I like, I know the name of every publisher that passed on it, including the editor. And so we'll cut to this one of the book's a big bestseller. And like, I'll send them a clip, this clip. We're all going to experience pain and injuries and physical

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That's 50% off your first year at Monarch.com. mode stoic. Flipping the table, you know me very well. You've known me for almost 15 years, which is hard to believe. You understand what I'm capable of and also what I struggle with. Given that I have the things that we outlined before, the responsibilities with the Brashdack, blah, blah, what do you think I should do? I think you should say, like, hey, I'm going to give this a certain amount of time per day

or per week. And I'm going to be like, I'm going to give it one hour a day for, you know, for all of 2025 and just see where it is then. Like, that's what I was telling you is, like, most of, like, you can either spend a lot of time trying to make it more appealing to get the selection or to get chosen and then still have to be at the exact same starting line. Like, you can either qualify for the marathon or you can just be, like, look online and be like, this is the course.

I'm going to run the marathon and see if I measure up or not. You know, like, I would just start by, like, putting some time in. Because who knows, maybe you'll get into it and you'll be like, actually, I really don't want to do this. Sure. It's really not that satisfying. I think I would just set aside a certain amount of time and put that time into it. And then knowing that, like, if you do that, not only will eventually a book come out of the other side that you'll either sell or self-publish, but if you back up and you see it as a meta project of solving this tendency that you have, that would be good. Because this isn't the only place you're doing it.

Like, again, not to put you on the spot, but you've been talking about this podcast idea, which I think is just as good as the book for. For like 18 months. Yeah. You're this close to start. You have most... I've recorded episodes, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So the recorded episodes.

It does, I think some of it too is like fear of future bandwidth, meaning like, I'm afraid as I take these things on, if they are successful, then that's even more I have to do. You know what I mean? And like, I'm not opposed to work. I work very hard. I work very long. But it's like, I don't know. As I'm thinking out of that loud, that could be something about it. Well, no, this is something I just saw a remit when I was in New York.

he came to my talk to the 90 seconds, and he's talked about this a bunch where like Zerblogx working out, and he's fascinated by personal trainers. And like saying personal trainers will talk about women. They don't want to hire a personal trainer because they don't want to get too strong.

Like they're worried about looking too strong. And it's like, it's like the definition of like cross this bridge when you come to it. It's like the problem is, is that most people sign up and then don't come. The problem isn't most people come and get too good of a result,

too quickly and then they don't know what to do about it, right? Right. And so like, I get that where you're like, there's probably some level where subconsciously you're like, I don't want to start this thing because then what if it works and then it'll take, but like you'll cross that bridge the same way you've crossed every one of those bridges with Daly Stoak, which is like now you have a scaling problem. Yeah. Which are actually uniquely qualified and practiced at solving. Yeah, that's true. Well, I think generally if we also talk about I'm probably not the only person in the world that has a book idea that's good, that is failing to start because somebody else is saying, yes,

what would you say to everybody else out there that has a book idea that hasn't started? Well, Seneca will put you on the hot seat here because Seneca says the one thing that all fools have in common is they're always getting ready to start. And that's where it's not like you're like some day, you're like you're, you are working on it. Yeah, yeah, I research. Yeah, you're just like, but you're just like waiting for some, like you're waiting for like, the bell to go off to start, and that's not probably going to happen. Like, for any of the things, you know, like, nobody's hotly anticipating, like, anything

that any of us are doing. Like, it's all got to be self-driven. That's true. But so, not to put you on high speed, don't you ever feel, though, that, like, it becomes an obligation, meaning, like, even this podcast, for instance, right? Like, you now know that you have to do podcast every week. I go, like, hey, like, just like maintenance. on the things that I've committed to

is like X amount of hours per week, right? And then like the commute to getting my kids at school is X. There's like increasingly smaller windows, which is definitely a self-inflicted, like sort of tighter and tighter pressure cooker that I've put myself in. So I definitely see that. But like I do try to, I do try to separate like, okay, what is like a work commit?

Like, okay, like I'm squeezing in one more talk that I'm supposed to do next week. Like, we're recording this before the end of the year. People are probably listening to this at the beginning of the year, which is sort of what we're talking about, because we're talking about, like, probably already you failed at some of your resolutions. And that's why we redo the New Year and New Year Challenge,

which you can sign up for it, daily stoke.com slash challenge. But I'm, like, squeezing in one more thing before the end of the year. That's like, I probably shouldn't. It's whatever. I do that. But, like, I try to make a big distinction between, like, obligations and then, like, interest slash creative, Like the main, so it's like if I, like, I just had this idea for another book that's kind of like an in-between book. And I pitched it to my publisher on Monday when I was in New York. And they were like, like, let's do it. You know? And like that to me, like when I look back, I'm not going to be like, oh, I'm glad I squeezed in that extra talk. But I am going to be glad that I like worked on that cool thing I was excited about. So like, if it's something that you don't ever actually want to do,

And then your reticence to start it is probably a good sign. Yeah. Right? I think that's an, like, if it's not a hell yes for something that, like, sucks. Yeah. That's different than a like, I'm not sure if I should do it or not do it. But like deep down, you're like, I would love to have done that. Right, right.

Those are the things you have to like barrel through the procrastination. Right. I'll give you another one. There's like an email in my inbox from this like startup that wants me to invest in it. And like the guys were like really nice. and I've almost signed the paperwork five times. Yeah. That I'm more suspicious of my,

I guess I'm taking my procrastination as meaning something more there. Yeah. Than I am when I'm like, I'm in the middle of this project right now. It's really hard and challenging. And I'm like looking for an excuse not to do it. Yeah. That procrastination I'm barreling through.

Right. Or resistance I want to see as the enemy versus other resistance that it's like, no, that's like a spooky feeling warning. you like you're in dangerous territory. Right. Would the hell yes or hell no if we're Derek Sivers, you know, he said. Yes. Things are either hell yes or hell no.

I think part of this too is like as you become more successful, the hell knows are things that you previously would have said hell yes to. That's a great point. Sure. And so like this book idea had come to me five years ago before I had a YouTube channel, I would have been 100% in on that. And as you become more successful in other areas, the tradeoff you start doing a little bit more. That's where the opportunity cost is.

Yeah, for sure. Yes. And if you had some competing thing that was like real and concrete and whatever, that would be different also, I think. But it's a genuinely good idea. It's like something you would grow for having done. Yeah. And the downside of it is extremely low other than opportunity costs. Yeah.

I don't know. I'd probably push through. I've also one where like I haven't not been working. I've been quietly working on it. Maybe I was working at until I get to the point where I feel like, oh, I've actually been working on it, you know? Yes. I have the prolog and the chapter. and written already.

Oh. And so there is work behind the scenes. And so that I think is like an indication even on myself that I do want to do the thing. Yeah. But it would still be nice to have like a publisher be like, you're all right. The book is like this one big thing that you work on for many years and then maybe it works or it doesn't. The podcast is a more, I think, illustrative and relatable one because like you could be 50 episodes into it by now and having like it either. You could have either done it and turned out like your audience isn't interested in it and you're not interested in it.

Or you could be 50 stories in. It could be incredible. It could have gotten you whatever credit and security you needed to do the book. Like, you also just could have been whoever you are on the other side of doing 50 episodes of something. That's true. So that's like an interesting one because it's closer to what most people are doing, which is like iterative things that they're either starting or not starting the clock on. I've done about 10 episodes. And the point of that was like, I remember when Tim Ferriss started this podcast,

he was like, I'm going to give it 10 or whatever he said. Yeah, I do six. And that feel, when you make it a more manageable thing, it is more manageable, you still then have to put them out. But again, to me, to me, I'm like, well, if I do six, I'm going to do 600, you know what I mean? And then, like, it becomes like a growing thing. Yeah.

So there is, is that the imposter syndrome of not wanting to launch it and it doesn't do, like, are you? Because that's an interesting thing. You and I talked about this where, like, We knew someone who was like wanted to be a YouTuber, but they just never made any videos. Yeah. And we were talking about how you have to have, it's not ego exactly,

but you have to have whatever the thing is that allows you to do your first shitty stuff. Yeah. That is public. Like Hemingway said, oh, the first draft of anything is shit. But like the problem with a lot of stuff is that, that, unlike a manuscript, that draft gets seen by people. and are you struggling then with just not wanting to put something out

and getting feedback on it? Like you are so good at making videos. Is it more like you don't know if you're going to be good at this thing? Maybe. Yeah, maybe I think that like I was pretty fortunate where like my videos have done really well from the very beginning. And so like I can point to that.

I mean, look, I'm good at making something. And then if you don't go to making something else, like does that? But why don't you like, okay, the videos came out, they did well. The email list came out. It did great. Why is your assumption

that it won't be a third one in a row? I don't know. I don't know. I remember I was talking about something that they were going to help me with some of my financial stuff and I was like, I kept being like, you know, because I'm like,

this is going to go away. And he was like, but what if like, I think it was actually right when I was thinking about the four Virtue series. I was like, you know, this is the first time I'm selling four things in a row and the way the money works in publishing. You get like a chunk of it.

So I was like, so obviously this is a one-time thing and then it's probably done for me. like this is my like and he was like but what if it's not like he was just he was like what if the next one is bigger and like I couldn't conceive of that and obviously him having other clients like he'd worked with a bunch of professional athletes like they're always like my first contract is the biggest one but he'd just seen it enough times like no sometimes like you keep going yeah and like that was like hard for me to conceptualize I wonder if you're like the track record says you should be this too, not from an egotistical standpoint, but like, you have an audience, you're good at it.

Yeah. It should transfer a little bit. Like, there's some of that. I mean, I remember even when I was doing my book that came out, like, I didn't, I don't think I showed anybody drafts other than you at the very last minute. Yeah. And I was like, well, I don't want to show them drafts. It's like, that's the dumbest thing ever because, like, they're going to see the final

book. Yeah. And it's only going to be worse because you did show anybody drafts. It's like, I was hiding all the work from everybody, including, like, my closest friends People who can help you make it better. Yeah. Instead, I was like, no, no, no, I don't want to show them something that's not good. And instead, they saw, like, a book that could have been better had I shown people things earlier on.

That's how you should think about this podcast, too, because it's, like, only a small percentage of the eventual audience will listen to the early ones. Sure. So, like, we talk about this at the Daily Stogne Museum, like, start the clock, right? Like, you should start, like, who you're going to be a year in and two years in and five years in is, like, obviously much better than who you are at the beginning. Sure. So, like, if you'd start at the club. a year ago, you'd be one year in. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I think to take the focus off myself a little bit, probably many, many, many, many people struggle with this exact thing.

Totally. No, that's why I'm to, I think it's just 90% of people out there probably have some creative project that they've thought about and failed to begin for some reason. And I think it happens, what is that for you? What is the podcast in your version of that world? You know what I mean? I don't know if I'd have to think about it like creatively. Like what is that thing? One example, Like I have, I've just noticed it like practically lately. Like there'll be like an email for some like I'm having a handle like some legal paperwork or I'm having to clean something up or have to make a decision about something. And I'll see this like email come in and I'll be like, oh, that's going to be like that's a high mental load thing. So I'll procrastinate.

I won't open it. And then I'm opening it and the person's like, can you send me that thing again? And so it's like like like actually it was like we weren't at the part I was dreading. It was like something leading up to that part, but I just made the whole thing last longer by making it up in my head, you know? Like there was some decision, Sam and I have to make on something, and I was like, we're like putting it off, putting it off,

and then it was like actually like the examples that they showed us were like so far from what we could choose between that we had to send it back. Yeah. And so like we could have sent it back two weeks ago and then it would be finished faster and whatever. Like I just find myself doing that a lot. lot, like mostly over like low-stakes stuff.

Yeah. I'm just like letting stuff sit and pile up and then I feel more and more pressure. And then when I look at them, I'm like, this was a low-pressure thing that I projected onto it something I was trying to avoid. Yeah. I don't know, like, big things I'm procrastinating on. I actually don't think that much. I'm pretty good at that.

Yeah. It's more of the little things. One of my goals for, for 26, maybe I'll have already failed at this. by the time people are listening, but I'm going to, I'm going to declare email bankruptcy. What is that? Like, you're going to go to NMAG zero? Just delete everything that's old. Not delete.

I'm just going to mark it all as red. Oh, mug all is right. And I've been telling myself I've been going to do it for like, where are you right now? Two years. Well, okay, so like I have an email. I have like two emails, as you know. I have one email that like newsletters go to and like, hey, we need an email address

for this receipt. That because, so that has like 50,000 unread email. That's like, I never asked for most of those emails. So I have that doesn't count. But I have like my email. it's got like five or six hundred. But they're like serious things. Important emo, yeah, yeah, totally.

And they stretch back two or three years at this point. And I'm just going to like obviously none of them are important or they would have replied. Followed up again. Yeah. And honestly, I bet there's like certain people or certain things that if I just search that name and marked those as red. Yeah.

It would go. They're 60% of it or something. Yeah, because it's them following up about this thing like 10 times, you know, or whatever. But so it's more like that. There's like things I know I need to do than. I'm letting pile up and I'm like, even the Seneca's thing, right? I'm telling myself I'm going to do it right on January 1st. Yes.

I could just walk into my office and do it right now. Yes. But on January 1st, it'll be 10% larger. Yeah. You know? Correct. So it'd be better if I did it right now. Yeah.

Well, you should do something called the New Year, New Year, New You. At the New Year New John. In the spirit of it's never too late, we are breaking with a little bit of tradition over at Daily the Stoic and reopening the New Year, New You challenge. We usually kick up the year with 21 days of Stoic-inspired challenges. And we heard from a bunch of people that came back from vacation later, they procrastinated, or they changed their mind, or they stumbled on their resolution. And, well, we wanted to say it's not too late.

You're still working on yourself. You're trying to get better. You want to make changes. And this is all inspired by Stoic Wisdom. So I would love to see you in there. Break out of the doom loop, cultivate gratitude, take charge of the year, focus more, develop, confidence, find calmness and stillness in a crazy world. A bunch of great stuff in here. It is not too late to make 2026 your best year. Stop dreaming and, you know, be that person.

Well, you can sign up right now at daily stoic.com slash challenge, and I will see you in there. We've got a bunch of awesome stuff. I think you're really going to like it. So sign up now at daily stoic.com slash challenge. I'll see you in there. I think we may have built a day around that for this reason. And like, what's a task you've been putting off? Like, what's one thing? Well, I guess, like, within the Stokes, like, if I had to hold onto something to convince me to do my book, what am I holding on to?

I mean, what I would hold on to is, like, the whole, Cyril Gorda could burn down down to the ground again, you know? Yeah, right. Like, I mean, you could fall down a fucking mind shaft. Yeah. All these, these are not, like, extremely unlikely, uh, possibility. It's like, one of them is a thing that already happened once. Yes.

And another one is a fate you tempt on a regular basis. So, and that's not even getting into other possibilities, which is like, I don't know, you're not going to be the person who has the freedom that you have now forever. Sure. I agree with that. And like, so this is like the time to do it. Right. So how then, so for a very practical example, this winter I had like three months dedicated and I was either. You already filled up like 50% of it doing something else.

I was either going to write this book full time, full time, meaning in my spare free time, or go on a road trip where that is a guaranteed paycheck. That's going to guarantee go to the rebuilding the hotel will guarantee advance my goals at Cerro Gordo. Sure. And so the proposal didn't get the response I wanted it to. The road trip got an immediate sponsorship for the whole series of it. And so now I'm spending these three months doing a round. road trip, which I'm excited about, but at the same time, you know what I mean?

Well, I think two things. I don't think your road trip actually needs to take three months. And then, and then, and no one actually said that you have to do it all by car. That's true. Even, you know, famously when you read like, Walk in the Woods or, like, it's like three different trips. Compilation of thing. You know what I mean? Right. Like, no one, no one actually needs you to do a contiguous road trip. Like, park your car in an airport and fly home. Right. And whatever. So I think I think not needing it to all or nothing is another way that we excuse procrastination. Sure. I don't, I just don't have the headspace right now or like I can't dedicate as much time as I would like to it right now.

So I'm just not going to, which is horseshit, right? And that leads me to the maybe thing I was saying earlier, which is like, tell yourself that one is contingent on the other, that accepting this is contingent on you saying, hey, I'm going to wake up at six in the morning every day. of the trip and I'm going to write from six to seven. Six, seven. Yeah. That's what I, it's probably by the time this is, people are talking about.

This is how you know I have a nine-year-old and a six-year-old. That's what I would do. I would make, you know, like, I will allow myself this, which is important and responsible for like adult business reasons. Right.

But I'm only going to accept that if I use it to support what I've committed to do for like creative things. fulfillment meaning purposes. I like that because I think it's very easy for everybody to fill available space with anything, right? And especially like we said like as you have success, you can fill with, they're both very

cool things to do. You know, they're not like one's not undesirable to do. And so I have no problem filling my days with plenty of things that are really cool, which is a very fortunate position to be in. A lot of people have this fantasy that they're going off in the woods and that's where they, that's what they need to finish their book. Why do you hate writers retreats? I mean, I hate writing retreats because it's basically an expensive form of procrastination.

It's a fantasy camp. You are saying, I could be writing right now. I could have written this morning. I could write tomorrow morning. But actually, I need to save it up for like three weeks when I go to this expensive place in upstate New York or when I go to this glamorous cabin in the woods. And like, you're just looking for an escape from the day-to-dayness that is, doing the thing. The idea that you're going to get a book done in two weeks or in a month, in a sprint, it's like the whole thing was never a sprint to begin with. It's a marathon,

right? It's a long, extended endurance sport. And there might be punctuated moments of intensity, sure, but like, that's probably not what's going to happen. And in fact, you're not doing it day to day because you're saving it up for this period when you're really going to be ready. I'm like, I'm like, you know, Baldwin was obsessed with these writing retreats. And then he would go and mostly drink and talk on the foot. He would call his boyfriends and he would, whoever you are here, you're going to be where you're going. It's just, you're just paying for it. And it's a slightly more glamorous setting.

And you're going to be telling yourself that this is contributive and it's not. And so I think mostly it's dumb. And mostly it's like go to your office, go to a coffee shop, sit in your car on do it on your phone like just just do it and do it a couple crappy pages a day and eventually you have a manuscript that can be turned into not crap but don't you ever have the the fantasies for me like right my fantasy this winner was yeah a publisher this was going to be your writer's retreat you're coming here yeah yeah yeah so like publisher gives you an advance i come to somewhere where no one's bothering me better weather better weather or i was like you know if i'm

get crazy, I'll rent a cabin in Key West, you know, I'll seep in Hemingway. I need. You know, I like the aura of the place will get to me. And like, but having at some point in your career, you'll fall in victim at all of like wanting to live the lifestyle of what we perceive to be a writer? Well, first of up, how's the writing retreat going for you? You're leaving in two days to drive thousands of miles over the country to not do the thing that you specifically said you were going to do. I mean, yeah, sure. Yeah. And look, sometimes it is nice to be in a cool spot. And I like taking my stuff with me when I'm already going somewhere and I'll get a little bit here or there. It can be fun sometimes. But it's mostly a day-to-day thing and there's

no escape. There's no hack. I would almost count on the destination writing, foster and creativity. I would say like you're actually paying for it to be worse. It's like they say like when you take your kids on vacation, you're paying to not have child care. That's like what you're doing. So like it's actually much less relaxing. That's how I would... That said, you've lived in what many would consider writing hotspots. You lived in New York City. You lived in L.A.

You live in New Orleans. You lived in Austin. You've lived in Florida. Sure. And so what is the best place to write? My friend Chase Jarvis has the best camera is the one that you have on you. Like the best place to write is wherever you are whenever you have time. I would say the best place to write is like early in the morning.

or late at night, wherever the fuck you happen to be. And everything else is window dressing and fantasy and pretending and nonsense. But sure, like, there's a reason I live outside Austin as opposed to, you know, wherever. And there's a reason I have an office instead of at a coffee shop. There are ways you're turning the dials a little bit, but there's not a button you can press or a ticket you can buy or a fellowship you can give that's going to make you do this hard. thing that is mostly only yours to do. And if there was a magical solution, someone would figure it out right now. So none of those cities do it for you? I mean, no more than any other

place. I, no more than any other place. Because it's not about the one thing they all have in common is you. And as they say, like, wherever you go, there you are. Isn't there this narrative that, like, you go to Gertrude Stein's apartment in Paris and you suddenly become a great writer? So, like, scene, right? But you're sitting at Joan Didion's table. Is it doing anything for you? you. I literally sit in Joan Didion's chair every day. It's pretty uncomfortable, to be perfectly honest. And that's all, that's all very silly. Like James Clearer talked to me about he's like two magical hours. That's all he asked for himself. It's like he does like the first two hours. And that's how I do it. Like most of us are not Robert Carroll or Robert Green or whatever where

you're working like for 12 hours a day on this insane project for 10 years. Like, and by the way, most of what we're trying to do does not demand that. Like we're not trying to solve complex theoretical physics either, so we don't need to do what Richard Feynman is doing. So I think, like, just the decision to go like, hey, I'm going to spend this amount of time on a day and in, day out basis, like, if you can do that, you'll eventually get where you want to go. And in this case, because you don't have a contract, you don't have a time. Like, it doesn't have to be done by any time. And it's not like anyone's going to scoop you on this idea. And it's not like it's becoming any more or less relevant. It's a timeless idea about a thing that you have a monopoly on.

and you're one of the only people in the world that even knows about, like, just do it. Just chip away at it. The funny thing is, like, the thing that you think will give you permission or make it easier doesn't actually solve that logistical problem at all. Because, like, let's say actually one of the people who went out to got back late and they're like, no, no, no, I want it. And it's a great art. You still have this other thing.

And you probably still would have had this other thing anyway. and you'd be like, well, what order should I do them in? And you'd be like, I got to do both. And so it just comes down to just fucking do it. You know what I mean? Like just say to yourself, you're going to do it. I think Epictetus, I think I actually have this as the epigraph to the Daily Dad. This is Epictetus.

First say to yourself what you would be and then do what you have to do. Like, what's the thing that you want to do? And then you do it. And then, all right, so how about this? I'll go back in Mark Unread. on all those emails. Yes. And you will schedule the first episode of your thing. Deal. Subscribe below. I'm only nagging you about these two things too because I want you to do both of them. Like I think they're both really good ideas and I would like to consume them. I'm very excited with

both of them, even though I'm not. Well, I am pursuing both of them in like at my own timid way. And I do think that also though like the road trip will feed into both in some way maybe. So I think that it'll end up pretty good. What I wonder to, like, if I'm, like, psychoanalyzing you, I think it's less like you're worried about, like, the commitment in the future. Like, if you do the thing, then it's like you have this thing. I think you kind of have a good, not a good setup, but you have a, you have a perfectly unscaleable setup now.

It's mostly you. There's a handful of people. It all runs through you. There's no hierarchy organization structure. It's just like you, wait a lot. up and what am I going to do today? And there's probably some level where like operationalizing it, the way that ironically, that's been your role with Daily Stoic is like, I have ideas and then you help me operationalize them into like, I was like, hey, we're doing the email. It's going well.

But like, what if we did a podcast version? Like for people who don't know, Brent's the one that like makes the things real for the most part. There's probably some level where you are either afraid to do that for yourself, or you are intimidated by the idea of having to get someone to help you do that? I think so. I think that the idea of like, because with that seemingly comes more responsibility, because then you're responsible for another person and then another person. And you're like, wait, I have two of the things.

Yeah. It's partially that. But it's like, it's weird too because like I think a lot of people resonate with this too. Like, I want the things, you know. I want the podcast to be doing well. I want the book to be under development. It's just something about like... Well, that's what he's saying.

It's like, what do I have to be or what do I want? And then you're like, then you gotta do what you, you know what you have to do. Yeah. So you just have to do that thing. Yeah. It's also like, and probably you could speak to this as well, especially to the authors, like,

my first book did well. The next book that I want to do is not in the same genre of the first book. It's further from home. I can very, I mean, what do you think my book for sure? I mean, let's do a, philosophy book to follow up this marketing hit. And so like when you feel like you did a good job within this space, but then the response to your next idea is like tepid. You know, it's like a little loop one of my worst selling book. It's one of, if not my favorite book of yours. That's what I'm saying.

And I can say that very confidently. Like I'm in many respects, proudest of it. And like the book that I'm working on now, if it works, it will probably also be one of my worst selling books. Like success is like a foregone conclusion. Sure. Not as good as the other ones. But so you got to know where different things fit. Yeah. But then also like what I know is that day to day, I'm fucking loving doing it.

Because like I, it's what I wanted to do. It's what I'm interested in and I'm learning and growth. So I'm like, oh, it's like it's success. Even if I was doing it for, even if it was a money losing project. Yeah. Which I guess at some point if you're like advance and then the, advance is here. And then like the expenses of research and. time or whatever. At some point, it does become a money losing proposition. Thankfully, we're

nowhere close to that. But I'd be like, okay, because like I'm, I'm making withdrawals too and that I'm like liking what I'm doing every day. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it. And I'll see you next episode.