The Daily Stoic - Christina Pazsitzky, Tom Segura, Whitney Cummings, Drew Michael, Pete Holmes, and Katherine Blanford on Comedy and Philosophy

Episode Date: January 6, 2024

Today’s episode features clips from some of the best interviews throughout 2023. This year, we had a handful of great comedians come onto the podcast and I got the pleasure of having them in the Daily Stoic Podcast studio where we talk about ego, discipline, procrastination, memento mori, and of course why some of the funniest jokes come from a dark place. Here's a recap of some of our best topics with Christina P, Tom Segura, Whitney Cummings, Katherine Blanford, Drew Michael and Pete Holmes.✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic. Each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance and wisdom. And then here on the weekend we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview stoic philosophers. We explore at length how these stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend, when you have a little bit more space when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal,

and most importantly, to prepare for what the week ahead may bring. Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another weekend episode of The Daily Stoked Podcast. I was down at the beach in Florida, like exactly a year ago, I'm going for a run, looking at the beach, the oceans like glass. I'm just in that little limbo period right before the new year. It's just one of my favorite times of the year.

And I recognized this person. I thought they looked really familiar. And then I recognized it. It's this comedian who I follow on Instagram. And then I checked out their thing. And yeah, they posted a picture of this. It was them. I wasn't able to say anything on the run.

I was two in the zone. And by the time I passed, it was too late. But yeah, it turned out it was the wonderful comedian, Katherine Blanford, who I had on the podcast. Guess this would have been late January, early February of 2023. She was one of the first in-person guests on the Daily Stoke podcast. Now, she's not the guest today because I'm having multiple guests. I think it's really important that we don't just see stoicism as this dour,

unfun, merciless thing. In fact, the stoics were funny. One of the things I talked about with the different comedians that I've had on the podcast over the years, has been that one of the Stokes, Chris Hippas, died of laughter. How funny is that? And so in today's episode, I wanted to bring on, I wanted to bring you a collection of some of the best comedians

that I've had on the podcast. We talk about ego and discipline, procrastination, momentum worry, and why some of the best comedians that I've had on the podcast. We talk about ego and discipline, procrastination, memento, and more. And why some of the funniest jokes come from a dark place. My guests today are going to be Christina P. Tom Segura, Whitney Cummings, Catherine Blanford. I also drew Michael on who was great. And then way back, I think in 2020, I had Pete Holmes on. So I'm bringing you some selections of all of these folks. We're going to talk about where the stokes were funny, what we can learn from them, not just about life, but also what we can learn from these comedians about how we do our work. And the reason I wanted to put this episode together is that I'm down here again. I just went for that similar run and I thought of that wonderful chance encounter on the street.

And I decided to throw this compilation together for all of you. And then I finished up. My run had a great six or so miles this morning. I did stop for a little break because I saw these dolphins coming up. And I just stood there and watched it and it struck me. It was the only one standing and watching. Everyone else was too busy talking, drinking, doing whatever, and I just sat and watched the dolphins

and I thought, what an amazing life this is. And I wanted to share that with you. Anyways, I'll get into the episode now. Talk soon. I remember very specifically, I rented an Airbnb in Santa Barbara. I was driving from San Francisco to Los Angeles. I just sold my first book and I'd been working on it and I just needed a break. I needed to get away and I needed to have some quiet time to write. And that was one of the first Airbnb's I ever started with.

And then when the book came out and did well, I bought my first house. I would rent that house out during South by Southwest and F one and other events in Austin. Maybe you've been in a similar place. You stayed in an Airbnb and you thought yourself, this actually seems pretty doable. Maybe my place could be an Airbnb. You could rent a spare bedroom, you could rent your whole place when you're away. Maybe you're planning a ski get away this winter or you're planning on going somewhere warmer while you're away.

You could Airbnb your home and make some extra money towards the trip. Whether you use the extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun, your home could be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. This podcast is brought to you in part by Audible, presenting Anne of Green Gables. A timeless tale reimagined. Anne of Green Gables is an immersive new adaptation of the beloved Canadian classic. It features an all-star cast, led by Sandra O. as narrator, Catherine O'Hara as Marilla Cuthbert,

Victor Garber as Matthew Cuthbert, and Michaela Lushi as Anne Shirley. It's releasing now during the holidays, making it perfect for a family listening moment that transcends generations and celebrates the universal journey of self-discovery and the power of imagination. Anne's perfectly imperfect character teaches valuable lessons for every stage of life, highlighting universal themes such as imagination, friendship, love, community, nature, and forgiveness. Plus, this audible original offers a unique immersive experience.

Combining an original score, Dolby Atmos Sound Design, and the richness of theatrical performance, and of Green Gables. Listen now, only on Audible. I can't imagine there's many comedians that have studied philosophy. Have you run into any of that? Nobody stupid enough to do that. What idiot gets a degree in philosophy?

Fucking moron. What were you to it? Well, I'll tell you, I was very depressive teenager. A lot of anxiety at 13. I had my existential crisis at 13. I had my existential crisis at 13. I realized my parents were fucking worthless. And I was like, I gotta raise myself. But thankfully I had a bitch in paratites

so I could buy cigarettes at 13 years old. So my life was complete as long as I could smoke cigarettes. And anyway, I had really dark thoughts. And then I studied philosophy as a freshman. I had my first class. And I was like, oh my God. School or college? College. Okay.

Where'd you go? I barely eke through high school. I mean, I don't even think I broke a thousand on my SATs. I couldn't study at home. It was a mess. I get into college just by the skin of my teeth and went to the university San Francisco. And I got in on academic probation, like such a loser, barely into college. And I'm in grateful, a soft, go questions.

And this brilliant man, Dr. Mankus, rested peace, he's dead now. But he gave me, height of course, what is called thinking, not me, the whole class. And is this idea that there's a layer to thinking? What is called thinking? Not just thinking,

what am I gonna eat? Am I gonna take a shit? We're gonna popsicles, are we gonna screw, but like thinking. And my brain fucking lit up. And I was like, this is what I've been waiting for, we're gonna popsicles, are we gonna screw, but like thinking. And my brain fucking lit up. And I was like, this is what I've been waiting for, answers to the universe, is it, this is it.

And then I just, I was obsessed, I was obsessed. Yeah. And then it taught me how to be, how to think, how to be free, like Sartre says, the existence proceeds essence, I can define my future, I can think for my future. And this is one thing I wanna teach my kids. It's not about when I'm gonna learn

and school even though that's important, I believe in learning stuff. But to form your life actively, nobody fucking tells you that. Nobody told me like, hey, if you don't plan your life, life will run you over, man. You need a plan, homie, get into it. And the one good thing about philosophy degree, which I would say if you're,

for anybody thinking about getting one, is that it teaches you to think clearly and to speak clearly. And I know so many dumb motherfuckers in this world who can't even think. I mean it, and I'm fucking bored when I talk to 90%, I love you because I think you're just, my eyes glaze over, because I'm like,

Jesus, I know where this is, I know what you're gonna say. And I, not that I'm so brilliant, but I, I fucking, I think about dumb things. This is what I love doing. Yeah. And I get very frustrated. You just picked that up from the internet.

I, you know what I mean? Like you're like, you're just repeating something you heard someone else say. That's what I'm Peter Sins. Yesterday, honest, a Grammy. Fuck, I know that guy. Yeah, yeah. But I also feel my brain dissolving after having two kids.

But what was really great about philosophy, it teaches you how to think, it teaches you how to write, it teaches you how to analyze reality. And it really got me out of the matrix of how women are supposed to be in stuff too. That was another one. I was like, oh, wait, this is bullshit. Like, oh, none of this fucking mat, like, yeah.

Like I always laugh when people blame society. And like a society tells women, it's like, do they? Is there a mandate? Is there a rule? Like you have to be a Kardashian. I understand that it's hard to not compare yourself when you're a young impressionable girl.

But it's like, you can also go, I don't need to do that. I can be my own thing. I can make my own thing. Things can be systemically fucked up and unfair and all that. And the stokes would say, still you control how you respond to that. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't address the larger problem, but the fact that the system is what it is doesn't absolve you, the individual from the necessity of figuring out how to navigate it

and not be corrupted or broken by it. Or even thrive in it. So when I started comedy, there were no women. And I could have, and I was broken by it. I was like, only there are no girls. I'm gonna be the only girl to comedy store. And then I went, I'm the only girl at the comedy store, like home alone.

You know, and he's like, what is it? They, oh, I made my parents disappear. I made my parents disappear. And it was like the party moment where I was like, I'm the only one in the game. Great fuckers, watch me run. Yeah. You don't like it? Suck my tits.

I don't care. I don't like you. I don't care. You know, Dr. Drew's who introduced me to it. Same thing. I was in a philosophy. I was taking a class on Aristotle. It was like ethics in the

meaning of life. Yeah. And I mean, Aristotle is great. And we were, we did Aristotle, we did Camus and. Wait, who taught your class, Dr. Drew? No, no, no, I went to Riverside and I was taking a regular philosophy class with a philosophy professor who's interesting and I'm reading it. And then I went to this thing, I got invited, because it's right in

for the college newspaper, I got invited to this thing in Hollywood, the Dr. Drew was speaking at. And so I asked him if he had a book recommendation. He recommended Epic Titus. So that's how I ended up being introduced to the Stokes.

And I was like, this is way better than what I'm learning in school. This is like actually usable shit from from real people in the real world as opposed to just abstract questions. And yeah, just totally different. But what like, how did it grab you by the nuts? What was it, do you know?

Do you know, there's this passage in meditation that I think hit me especially as a college kid. He just talks about how hard it is to wake up in the morning. You know, he's like, he literally goes to the, it's like, I don't when you awake and then he interrupts himself and he goes, but it's warm under the covers. And he goes, is this what you were put here to do, you know, to huddle under the covers and be warm?

And like, so he has this dialogue with himself about getting out of bed in the morning. And that's not what we think of philosophy as being. Philosophy is like, how do you know if you have free will? Or, you know, like it's questions that are interesting, but it's not like, let me help you get out of bed early. You know, I just, I just fucking loved that. And it's so readable and accessible.

Especially the Greeks, the Stoics. Yeah, the Stoics especially. And like, it's because Mark Greeks, the Stoics. Yeah, the Stoics especially. And like, it's because Mark's realist was writing to himself. And so it feels like he's writing to you. He's not writing to the audience. Wow. He's writing to you. And there's a parallel to comedy there in that like the most specific comedy is the most universal. Yeah. And so here you have a philosophy text that wasn't written as a philosophy text. It's notes in a diary that somehow becomes the most universal and sort of memorable of philosophy texts. Because he wasn't thinking of you. He was trying

to be honest with himself. So there's no, it's totally stripped down. There's no performative element in it. There's no artifice. It's just him talking to himself. Yeah, because once you get self-conscious, it gets inauthentic. Yeah. Once you start thinking about the audience too much, like there's a certain level you have to,

where you're like, I have to explain this premise properly. I have to, yeah, like they're going to tell you if it's working or not, really, the laughter. But yeah. So, when I got signed by a big time management company, I was like, oh man, it's just like, and this was like, who everyone was saying,

like, you gotta try to get with these people. I was like, really, man, it's like, and this was like, whoever was saying, like, you got to try to get with these people. I was like, really feeling myself. Yeah. I was supposed to start a, on a new show, I was working in post production, and this was going to be like, a pretty big rug post you're working for set runs. Like, this would be a 12 week or 16 week kind of run,

and I was going to, I got a promotion and they were gonna give me over time for the first time. Yeah. And they would work us like dogs. And I just walked into my post supervisor and I was like, hey man, you know, this thing happened yesterday. I signed with a manager and I was like, so I'm not gonna be able to.

Like you've, I've made it. I've made it because I have a manager. Yeah. And then I remember I call, I was like, yeah, yeah. He goes, oh, you have an audition for this movie tomorrow. It's first time I had a big audition. And I was like, yeah, I quit my job and he goes, what?

I go, I quit my job and he goes, why? I go, some working with you now. And he was like, oh, okay. Well, we'll see how that, like you didn't know what to say. Yeah. And I was like, oh man, I just cut my life support. No, I feel like I accidentally did that. Like I bought my first house with my pay stubs,

not my like 1099. Sure. You know what I mean? So I was like a regular person living life. And then I had this artistic thing on the side that eventually overtook it. Yeah. And yeah, you want to give yourself as much runway as possible.

And I don't think people understand, it's like, if you blow up your life to pursue this thing, which sometimes you have to do to get out of stuff. Sure. But it's like, you're not going to have the leverage to not do shit that you don't want to do or that you shouldn't do, because you don't have any do or that you shouldn't do

because you don't have any money and you literally need to live. Like I got offered, the first book, my first sort of offer to do a book came in like 2008 or 2009. And the opposite, which I ultimately did with the obstacles away, but the obstacles away didn't come out until 2014.

Yeah, it was good to say. Okay. And Robert Green, who was my sort of mentor, was like, you have to turn this down. And I was like, are you kidding me? He's like, first off, it's a shitty deal. Like, they're offering you no money upfront. It's not like a big publisher. Like, he's like, but that all aside, content-wise, like, you're not ready to do this. And that was extremely hard.

Like, you're getting your shot. And I have to be like, I'll wait for a later shot that might not come around. It's the hardest thing. It was so hard, but he was totally right. Because if I was, if I'm now looking back to the obstacle and what is the way I'm like, I'm a little young, it would have been insane

to write that at 22 or something like that. It is. You're lucky that he told you, but you're lucky that you listened. Yes. And I, it's a hard, I remember a very similar lesson. Everything was, there was a period where now it's like specials come out every week, and you can self-produce them.

It's easier to, and it's fantastic for those comedians and also for stand up comedy. It's great that you have so much coming out. But some people shouldn't be putting them out. Yes. The, what happened before Specials was albums, right? Yeah. And so in like the early 2000s,

it's like as albums, albums were the hottest probably in the late 90s, early 2000s. And then it's a slow thing. It aligned with music where like album sales just started to decline. Yeah, but there were people who had like number one album. There's yes, big people. Big, big ones.

So I remember right when I was like, I'm probably only, that's why it's, it was good that I listened also. I was like five years in maybe. And I was working this weekend with David Tell, who's like, he's every comic's favorite. I mean, my favorite comedian of all time. I mean, he's just, he's amazing. And I was a huge, my favorite comedian of all time. I mean, he's just, he's amazing. And I was a huge fan. Yeah. I couldn't believe I was working with him. And throughout the weekend, we're like, you know,

just talking about this and that. And I was like, yeah, you know, I'm trying to figure out whether I should do it out, I think I should do it out. You know, you think I should do it out of him. And he goes, do you have an hour you're in love with? And I go, no, right. He was like, I think there's your answer. I just kind of walked away and I was like,

oh yeah, just because somebody goes, you can record one, doesn't mean. Like that's literally when you should go, let's record or let's shoot this, is when you go, oh, this is fully cooked and ready to go. And anything other than that, like, people are getting now these opportunities to shoot these things. And you're like, hey, man, like, have you been, like, have you even been working this hour? Yeah, sure.

Like, it's not, it's not ready. Senegal had this word, euphemia, which he said is the sense of the path that you're on, and he said not being distracted by the past that crisscross yours, especially from those who are hopelessly lost. Ooh. And that's extremely hard to have at any age, like, but I think younger, you know,

you're like, well, someone's doing this, and someone's doing this because you're measuring yourself against all these other people, but then, even as you become successful, now all of a well, someone's doing this, and someone's doing this because you're measuring yourself against all these other people. But then, even as you become successful, now all of a sudden, there's all these things that you can do. And it takes an immense amount of discipline, I think also confidence, just like sort of self-awareness, and sort of strategy to go like,

here's when I'm, here are the things I want to do, here's when I want to do them, and like not really paying attention to what other people are doing, or everything that's coming into your inbox. It takes all those things, right? And then, because you also, that comparison thing,

it also just shifts, you just compare yourself to new people, more successful people, people who are doing incredible things. But I also feel like you get this, if you're not too caught up in that chase and in your own ego and everything, you actually learn to like really settle into the fact

that you intellectually grasp like, oh, like he's, I'm not comparing myself to what Ryan's doing, whatever he just did, like he's on his own path. And you kind of get this thing where you're like, you're not, you find that it doesn't make you go like, what about me? Like, you know, like, you did, I did do that at 25. And like, now when I hear about that, I don't go like, like, what am I going to do? You know, like, well, it's also helpful to realize, like, some people are profoundly unhappy.

And then other people don't like doing the thing. So like, like, I try to remind myself, like, I like writing, like, I like writing books. That's what I enjoy doing. So I didn't get into writing as it means to an end to do something else. That is the end. That is the end. Yeah. And so, yes, there's definitely different opportunities and different ways to monetize it and some of that helps you do the thing. But if I'm like, well, so and so, just started a company or so and so speaking this many dates a year, I go, that's all great.

But my main thing was writing. Like the reward for getting successful at this thing should not be that I don't get to do the thing anymore. Right. If the reward for me is doing the thing, if you hate it, like I'm sure there's stand-up comics who are good at stand-up comedy, but they love acting. Yeah, yeah.

But they love writing or whatever. So for them, they're getting in and then they're getting out. Yeah, totally. But if you don't want to get out, don't follow the people who are getting out or you're gonna get out and be unhappy. I've seen both examples. It's fascinating to watch because you can tell the ones of the people who are getting out or you're gonna get out and be unhappy. I've seen both examples.

It's fascinating to watch because you can tell the ones who like the first acting thing that comes and they're like, I'll see you guys later. And they're fine because they're happy with that. What's more interesting almost is the people who turn down some of those opportunities that come when you have stand-up success. And you're like, you don't want to,

and they're like, I don't want to do that shit. Yeah, you're like, really? You almost can't believe it at first, because we're also kind of, we're all brought up. Now it's shifted. So if you're in your 20s now, doing stand-up, you don't have the same model that we had. But our model was like, you do stand-up so that you can get a sitcom. That was the win. Now people turn down those things left and right. But you're also definitely not supposed to say no to things that could pay you a lot of money. Sure. That's stupid and irresponsible. The other thing, though, that is crazy, that some people still have are unaware of is that high level big time touring comedians make way more money.

Sure. And even like some of those talent agents who represent actors are just kind of learning this. They're like, yeah, you know, like that comedian is going to lose money doing your thing. Lose. Yeah. But he has to really want to do it. Hey, I'm Michelle Beetle. I guess they really want to do it.

Hey, I'm Michelle Beetle. And I'm Peter Rosenberg. Hey, Peter, tell the people about our new podcast. Right, it's called Over the Top. And we cover the biggest topics in sports and pop culture using royal rumble rules. That means we'll start with two stories, toss one out on its ass, and dive into the other stories with ruthless aggression. Oh, but it never stops because every

90 seconds after that. Oh God, whose music is that another story comes down to the ring. Rinse and repeat until we arrive at the one most important thing on planet Earth that week. at the one most important thing on planet Earth that week. Follow over the top on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to over the top early and add free right now by joining Wondry Plus. For the record, this is not a wrestling podcast. No, no, but it is inspired by wrestling.

Isn't everything inspired by wrestling, Bito? Fair point. Everyone leaves a legacy. My Rastling. Is it everything inspired by Rastling Beato? Fair point. Yeah! Everyone leaves a legacy. For some, the shadow falls across decades, even centuries. But it also changes. Judgments are revised. Some are redeemed. Others are torn down.

From Wundery and Gohanger Pubcasts, I'm Afwahherch. I'm Peter Frankapan. And this is Legacy. Exploring the lives of the biggest characters in history. And asking whether they have the reputations they deserve. Follow Legacy now wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know this term art monsters? No. Oh, some female writer are, I wish, she's like, I want to be an art monster, meaning

like only the art and fuck everything and everyone else. Because that's what basically male artists have been a lot. All narcissists, but male artists have been allowed to be this for basically all of humanist, you know, your Hemingways. Just to show. Sure. But like, they made amazing stuff, but then they left us like wake of destruction and pain and broken people behind them. And in a way, it's easier to be that. It's way easier to be that. It's not

necessarily more fun in the long run. But it's easy. Also, paintback then was very toxic. They were all high. They were all like brain dead. Right. They were like drinking out of late. Yeah. They were just inhaling lead all day. Let's give them a little break. But, but you know what I mean? This idea of like, um, I think is that radical selfishness or something? Yeah. But, but just like at the end of your life, if you have like a, this stack of this work, but it came at this cost, you're not gonna be like, oh, it's totally worth it. I think it's also knowing when to do that. I did that in my 20s hard.

I was not fit to be in a relationship with anybody. I was not the person that someone that I would have wanted would have been attracted to. I think I had some kind of like Darwinian understanding of like my 20s is when to go the hardest ambition wise and to be that selfish because otherwise I'm just going to be selfish in a relationship with somebody. I'm just going to hurt somebody. I'm going to lie to someone. I'm going to cheat on someone, you know what I mean?

And I worked like an animal in my 20s. And then in my 30s, I kind of tried to find balance relatively unsuccessfully. And now I'm kind of like, oh, I think it's okay to be kind of let yourself be that selfish in your 20s and kind of know when to again update your software and But what if you didn't make it not like you didn't make it career wise, which it could also work Yeah, but like you can also pick up habits or Make decisions that are catastrophic right or or fatal even, right? So it's like the idea of being like profoundly unbalanced

for a period and then balancing out, it worked in your case. But I'm sure there are people you met or were peers of yours that haven't come out of that spiral. And maybe they can't come out of that spiral. They can't pull themselves out of that dot. And it's interesting because it's like you say peers and I think it also helps to go

and someone said this to me very early. And I'm very, I'm, this is embarrassing, but I'm going to say it. I made vision boards. Cut out in magazines, printed out, Comedy Central presents on a printer at Kinkos, cut it out, glued it on, in speaking of hailing chemicals,

I do a rubber cement, maybe that was why. And this is what I want. Like I was very, I was reaching the secret, I was like, and look, I am not saying necessarily like the secret is real. A lot of people I know that got into it, did get successful, maybe it's just the kind of person that would buy that book is already the kind of person that's working hard. It's like vitamins, I know they work, but successful. Maybe it's just the kind of person that would buy that book. It's already the kind of person that's working hard.

It's like vitamins. I know they work, but it's also if you're the kind of person buying vitamins, you're probably taking care of yourself in a lot of other ways too. So ours is the vitamins, or is the other variables, whatever. So I was just obsessed with like putting it out there, saying it, I'm going to do this. There's just no other option. I was very calculated about it. And

someone said to me, because I was like, oh, who should I put on my vision board? Like what people? And someone said, pick three careers that you want. Okay. Not 50. Yeah. Not peers. Because you can look at someone and go, like, oh, he's doing well, but like, you don't know. I don't know the whole thing. Yeah. And just do what they did. I picked Ellen. Okay. Was one of them. Yeah. John Stewart was one of them. And Roseanne was one of them whole thing. And just do what they did. I picked Ellen. Was one of them. John Stewart was one of them. And Roseanne was one of them. And I studied how long they worked at it. Because that was back in the day when you would be a comic

for 20 years before you would get the tonight show. Now you can kind of do some TikToks and get some visibility. And you can get famous, but you might not be great yet, whatever. So I was like, oh, I have 20 years. I have to work hard for 20 years. Like, I already kind of had that. And I was like, I need to turn 20 years into 15 years. That's too long. So I was like, double psycho. But I think it's important like when people are trying to figure out the career they want or like

who to compete with or who to aspire to, like, don't pick, don't look at everybody. Yeah. Just look at like two or three people. Yeah. That helped me, because when people are like, well, someone's so doing this, I'm like, I'm looking here. Right. This is the person I chose to emulate, so I just, I can't. When I see, when I look back on that period,

it's like, when I was in my 20s, it's basically working sort of three simultaneous careers. And I definitely think I fast forward, you know, you get your 10,000 hours, I was doing them three hours at a time. It was great. But at the same time, how much of it was actually moving the needle and how much of it was my intensity and not being able to,

do you know what I mean? Like, like, could I have actually done 70% as much and ended up in the exact same place? Probably did all these things that I thought were these sort of live or die moments or like everything was counting on it. You know what you guys, here's this is this is what I'm going to say about you. What I'm going to say right to the camera. I can tell who a person is based on the part of their Christmas tree that faces the wall. Okay. Do you decorate the part of their Christmas tree that faces the wall. Okay. Do you decorate the part of the Christmas tree

that faces the wall or not? Okay. Are you the person that just decorates? Around. Just where everybody kind of sees it. Sure. But that if a kid goes to go get something that's fallen, they're gonna, there's no magic in the back.

So you think you should decorate the whole tree? Yes. Okay. So we're in a studio where you see there's no magic in the back. So you think you should decorate the whole tree? Yes. OK. So we're in a studio where you see there's a billion of these books. There's tons of books behind the cameras that no one can see. OK. You're the person that goes all around the track.

So you just said, could you have gotten away with 70%? No. Because people would have walked in here and been like, so you just stop there. What doesn't technically go all the way? But you don't have to do that part. Do you know what I'm saying? No, I don't mean like I could have phoned it in.

I'm just saying like there was it, there was. But there's, I don't think our brains work that way. That's what I mean. I think your brain wants- It was just for me. You're either cheater or you're not. You're either the kind of person that does the right thing when no one's what, like, I think it's important to know yourself about that when you want to cheat.

You're like, I could totally get away with this, but then I would know. But see, I've also been to a workaholics meetings or many of them. And part of the reason you're going is because you don't have a healthy, a healthy relationship of what you shouldn't shouldn't be doing. Sure. And it's a compulsion. Does it stop, is it if it's diminishing marginal returns or if it's if it stops being fun, right? Which is a trick thing for work because like for most addictions, they say like, okay,

you know, it's an addiction. If it stops being fun, it becomes an obligation, right? Is it making your life unmanageable? But works tricky because you're like, well, it is for now. But if I just finished this book, then I'm going to get this money and it's not going to be unmanageable, you know? Right. It's a tricky one to know, but I always just say go balls to the wall because if it doesn't

work out, you'll always know you're in balls to the wall. Yeah, yeah, I just like I just think of the things that I thought mattered so much. And in retrospect, they were all part of a larger inability to sort of separate what was really important from what wasn't in kind of a compulsion, like rooted in a kind of anxiety and also I need to prove something to people. You know what else though? I get to move through life when people are like, so I haven't paused for syndrome.

I'm like, I don't. I actually believe I do more. I don't have, you know what I mean? Like I see people that are like, I'm just not sure if I deserve that, I'm like, I don't have to live like don't have, you know what I mean? I see people that are like, I'm just not sure if I deserve that. I'm like, I don't have to live like that at all. I don't want anything I don't deserve. I like knowing I went a little harder than I needed to.

I like knowing that I got everything honestly. I kind of now that I look back at that because I could easily say like, oh, that was kind of pathological, how hard you worked. I'm like, I just don't believe in wasted time like that when it comes to, it's like Johnny Carson used to say, there's no such thing as a wasted written joke because a B joke that you maybe don't,

that you've written that doesn't work on stage, ex-deporaniously, it's an A joke. So I have notebooks of jokes that have never gone on stage, but I'll use them at some point. It's also just writing them was itself good. Right? Yeah, totally.

It was a wrap. Yeah, it's like saying, like, oh, like running that extra mile every day, you know, when I was training, like was a waste of time, I could have just ran five and I ran six. It's like, well, it's kind of hard to tell. Yeah.

Because you're also here. How can you say that it didn't work? Well, I find that. So when I read, I'm always like, oh, I like this. I like this. I like this. I just collect it. And then once I know what I want it, like, then I'm like, OK,

I'm writing a book about X. I go back through everything I find and I found stuff that works for that idea that I collected before I knew I was looking for that thing. Right. Right. Right. Right. So it's all loading around like if your specials around a theme you probably think back to jokes that were throwaways like from three years ago that suddenly worked for that theme. And so you didn't know you were inching your way towards there but you sort of subconsciously worked. Yeah, I think that's definitely true. And but I also think that like, yeah, there is sometimes,

sometimes it maybe works the other way where the things that have worked or woodwork are the kinds of subjects or perspectives or idiosyncrasies that you can observe, the things that woodwork maybe, I guess I'm in a place now where I think I'm finding that the things that I'm noticing are actually sort of contradictory to the types of things that maybe like the aggregator would want in my mind. And so it creates this sort of upending and maybe that's growth and maybe that is, you know, challenging my own

sort of frame of reference. But it's like sometimes the things that I find myself noticing or reacting to or relating to or being moved towards are things that somewhat or sometimes completely contradict or negate or challenge the precepts that kind of maybe would facilitate what I was used to doing. And so I think that, you know, again, I don't know if that's like artistic growth, if that's an inherent limitation of comedy,

like maybe the idea that something has to end in a punchline is inherently limiting, like if you were writing a book and you're like every sentence or every paragraph has to come back around or generate this visual or logical clash that is required for comedy to emerge, then you would be both handsided on your back where it's just like you can't really get to what you're trying to get to if everything

has to be stuck in this one thing. And so as somebody who I think, I think I got into comedy not necessarily to make people laugh or to even be the funniest, but because I had certain things that I thought about and wanted to talk about and explore. I think for a while there was a way to do that on the basis of comedy, but I think as time goes on, that just feels more and more limiting and the things that I find myself recognizing and the patterns that I see in the world

and the things that I deduce as true are not necessarily congruent to joke structure or whatever else. I think sometimes they sometimes completely defy joke structure. Well, I think it's probably short-term maladaptive, right? Because if you're a character, instead of being a person,

you're a comedian character who only looks for the world in terms of redneck jokes or this kind of joke or whatever, then to have the opposite of tunnel vision is maladaptive, because you're sort of going through and instead of tunnel vision is maladaptive, because you're sort of going through, and instead of seeing just what you can use, you're seeing all sorts of stuff. But it is much more intellectually honest

and more likely to allow for long-term growth, long-term connection. And probably, I think ultimately, a more diverse audience, right? Because like I said, for instance, with stoicism, I was initially interested in its impact on sort of personal development, personal growth, productivity, and, you know, like, what what, how would help you as an individual? But increasingly, I've been much more interested

in what the philosophy sort of offers and demands sort of ethically, collectively, politically, et cetera. Now, the irony is this is coming at exactly the time that the audience is biggest, and the audience has grown primarily because people are interested in productivity and resiliency and all the personal stuff. So it's this clash where you know if you were just delivering

straight down the middle stuff, it would be better for you in the short term, but it would also be, I think, creatively bankrupt and then in some ways morally bankrupt. But also, I think have a shorter shelf life because it is artificially constrained and you would also burn out with it faster. Right, well, I think what you're talking about

and for giving me if I'm misinterpreting, but like it's sort of, I think it's similar. I think we're similar in the sense that trying to align the professional and personal pursuits so that they are not necessarily at odds with one another. I mean, I guess there's an inherent static when it comes to pursuing truth or pursuing, in your case, a very specific discipline of truth, or study of it, and then obviously with the necessities

of commercialization and monetization and stuff like that, it's funny, I don't know of you, how much of my world you catch window, but it kind of, in the vein of the class of stoicism or comedy and the kind of in the vein of the class of stoicism or comedy and the kind of marketplace. I don't know if he is doing this with a wink. I don't think he is, but Chris Rock has a new tour that he's going on. The name of it is called ego death. And so his his his poster says ego death, world tour. And to me, it's just like, I don't, I like that's

too ironic and too hilarious to not be a joke, but I don't think it is a joke. is to not be a joke, but I don't think it is a joke. Like I think it is earnestly saying, like ego death, and then but it is the world tour. And it's just like ego death world tour to me is the funniest. That's like a David Foster Wallace thing. Like that's not supposed to happen. That's supposed to be, you know, what the past viewed as like the sort of parody or satirical outcome of this modality and

you know, it's Zen Buddhism the ride. It's like, yes, it's just that Well, I was thinking about that the other day. I was actually I was playing with my kids and I was laying down upstairs We have this game room and like we have some posters from my books. When you do a book signing, they give you a big cut out of the thing, and I was like, hey, can I have that? They were like, we're just gonna throw it away,

so I have it on the wall. And I noticed it caught me that, on my first book to where I am now, my name has gotten bigger. I'm talking about it bigger. Right. Right. Right. When, right in the middle, one of those books is ego is the enemy. And then I was like, well, is that symbolic?

And then I was like, but actually also, it's a market thing, right? Because when I published zero books, the thing that mattered was the title of the book. Like, is the title of this book interesting? Right. Now it's like, it's me. After I sold more books, now it's attention between, is the title drawing the reader or is the fact that I also have fans who exist in the world and they would be more, like, are they going to be interested in a book on stillness?

Like, thinking about the overlapping diagrams is, is a book on stillness, like, thinking about the overlapping diagrams, is a book called Stillness is the key going to sell, like, attract the audience, sell better. Stillness is the key name of author you have to, like, zoom in to see, or is it going to be, oh, I've liked previous books from this person, and I want to look. So, it's this weird tension, right? And actually my publisher on Ego is the enemy, they were like, what if we did this thing where like sort of an artistic statement,

your name wasn't on the cover. And I was like, well, first of all, it kind of sucks because I wrote it, right? Like the painter should sign their work. It's not an egotistical thing, it's just like own your shit. But also, like, is that better, like, which is a better business decision, right? Like at brass, not in

business. What is a better getting people to read a book, which instinctually they don't want to read? And so you have that tension of, like, because it's a capitalistic commercial thing, it's not just what makes sense artistically or philosophically, it's also like what will work to deliver the medicine. Right, right. The logical extension of your name getting bigger is like the book tour becomes like an arena show with pyro techniques. It's like, you know, like everyone needs to learn stillness and just like, you know, like a, like a, like a

fighter jet flying overhead and just like, everyone's cheering and they have foam fingers of you and like pictures of your face and their t-shirt and like, we love you. And you're like, I'm just preaching. You know what I mean? So, so to me, I mean, that's obviously like the hyperbolic crazy satirical extreme of this idea of, you know,

a philosophy or a set of ideas that are somewhat not compatible with the sort of like capitalistic enterprise, but then having to exist inside of a capitalist landscape. It's like, there's, yeah, I think the detention is gonna be inherent. I don't think there is, like, like, it will play out in different microcosmic ways, where it's like is going to be inherent. I don't think there is, like, it will play out in different microcosmic ways, where it's like the name

versus the title, and like, yeah, it would be a statement to be, but then, but like, even the publisher, is like, there's so many layers that we're trying to like trick ourselves in a thinking we're absorbing actual truth, but it's really like a, just a better version of a commercial, and it's's like the idea would be like, oh, you published this book that has no author and that's the thing.

And then like, oh, secretly it's this guy who you know. And it's like, so it is like this sort of like constant trying to one up the marketing aspect of it. And something you see now, I mean on social media is that people are so inherently brand conscious. But with performers and with authors and artists and creators, whatever you want to call them, the product, they are also the marketing brand. Like they are the logo and the product and the team and everything. And so, you know, the delineation of like, you know,

like you've gotten rid of ads. It's like, we didn't. It's just the people just do them and sell. So it's like, if you were watching like a, you know, a Simpsons episode back in the day, it would be like, if in the middle of the episode, Mars just started talking about like tide pods and you were like, what is going on? Okay, yes, I'm privileged. I have savings, I have space, I have like a lot of space.

I could, you know, we can go in our swimming pool, we can walk without leading our property. There's all sorts of things we can do. And then I go, isn't it nice that I'm not having to travel, I'm not having to work that much? And then I think, but how much of that is a result of the fact that I worked really, really hard the last couple of years and said yes to everything.

And so now, you know, like the difference between that what is it, the cricket and the aunt, the fable, it's like sort of had prepared for winter. I'm curious like to get down to the specifics like as a person in the entertainment business, like one of the reasons you're probably able to take a break from comedy is that you built a a podcast for many many years, which is a sort of independent income stream and you don't have to, you know,

to or constantly the way that another comedian would. So do you think about having kind of diversified or prepared yourself as also being an advantage? Well, it's funny. I think, you know think one of the tropes that we see in movies, and even in video games, it was in Red Dead Redemption where the outlaws are talking about one last job, and then they're gonna go to, I think they're gonna go to Tahiti. And that's so common in movies,

and we know they're not gonna do it, and we know they're gonna die before it happens, or whatever it is. And that is a real, the reason we like that story is that's the lie that the ego is always telling us, not to get too deep or anything, but it's true. That's what your brain, another way of saying, your personality, is always sort of negotiating with this deeper part of you. It's so absurd. Sometimes I think about that.

I'm like, why are there factions in my brain? Like why does my brain make requests? Like it'll request water. It will demand diarrhea. And then like sometimes it'll like insist on comfort or self soothing or whatever it is. And I'm like, who's negotiating with who? Like, who is the command center that hears the thought you should have some water and you say,

I don't wanna drink water before bed. I don't wanna have to get up and pee. And so who are you negotiating with? It's just such a strange thing that's so ordinary that none of us are talking about. It's one of those things where I'm like, that is so fascinating. And yet it's so boring that none of us are talking about. It's one of those things where I'm like, that is so fascinating. And yet it's so boring to most people.

So what I'm saying is there's a part of me that goes, I'm constantly laughing at myself because I go, okay, I'll do one more big TV project and then I'll have the little laugh. That's good. Yeah, then I'll be good. And there is a practical, there is a side in its defense. I want to be like, what we're talking about,

that is the cricket, if that's the one that saves for winter. There is something about one more big project, certainly making things easier to settle down or to stop working as much. So there's some logic to it, but that's what makes it sort of dangerous. It's really tempting to constantly get lost in those fantasies of like three more months and then I'll retire. Is two guys, you and I bonded over the fact that like I'm not a sneaker guy, I'm not a

car guy, I'm not a wine guy, I'm not an art guy. I don't even know what the other things are, but I'm not any of those guys either. I like hanging out with my wife. I like hanging out with my baby. I like the thrill that I get from creativity, from writing and producing. I enjoy that, but that can be done on my own. I'm finding more and more.

So the money goes into savings. You said that on my podcast. You're just like, I don't know what it is. I just want that number to go up. Well, that's the capitalistic myth. It's like a corporation is a failure. If it doesn't do better than it did the year before, there's no idea of it doing as well as it did the year before.

That's called plateauing and it's negative and it freaks out shareholders from what I understand of business. We're seeing that there is a plateau and it's okay and it's not only okay, it's beautiful and you can actually start spending that money. Sometimes it sounds like I'm saying, oh, wife, sure is good at spending my money. That is not what I'm saying at all. She has taught me how to go like, what is the point of having this imaginary number?

It's an imaginary number. If you're not going to occasionally go whatever, on a vacation, let's just say that, to go on a vacation. So this is what's happening, is the reververs Meeting, the Road, the imaginary number becomes actually a useful parachute, and we can tinker and play with our, not just the quality of our life, but the style of our life. No, I totally agree, and the wife thing is interesting, because it's like for you, like what is held me back in the past

financially is like, I know what I had to do to get the money. I know how rare it is to get paid to write things, to just like pull thoughts out of your head and not just have people pay you a lot of money, but I remember how many years I had to work for free before anyone gave me a dollar. Right. any years I had to work for free before anyone gave me a dollar. Right, so it's like you know that your profession isn't inherently insane and economically irrational. So that can make you very precious about the money. And I had sort of two breakthroughs. One, yeah, my wife's like, no, we have the money.

Let's spend it to her. It's just, you know, it's the same as if I made it in the stock market or, you know, if I had been given to me by a rich relative. And then the other thing is I met some professional athletes and those professional athletes, like do it even more economically insane thing and we're not as precious about it. And so I think one of the weird things about this crisis

is also like, it's somewhat freeing in the sense that like, I can't even calculate how much money I've lost, like, you know, because I'm not checking my stock portfolio on a regular basis. It's impossible to know what opportunities would have been coming your way in May to do jobs in, you know, August that are not going to happen anymore. So, but the point is the losses are so severe and so like- What's the point of thinking of them? Yes. So, in a way, you just like stop thinking about money. You're just like, things cost what they cost.

I need things to survive. Yeah. And you say it almost like, it's like when people get their arm cut off, they're not like, does that hurt. It's just like your whole body like takes care of the pain part. It just like shuts off that part of your brain. Yeah, that's right.

My therapist had something similar, like something was going bad in my life back when I was 28, my first marriage had fallen apart. And I was like, it's so weird that I don't care that this other major thing has gone wrong. And he's like, yeah, you just got bit by a shark. You don't care about this other major thing has gone wrong." And he's like, yeah, you just got bit by a shark. You don't care about the jellyfish sting. But there was, like, I even,

I think I said something like this in the book, like being depressed and being sad, there's kind of a snowed-in comfort to it. I'm not saying it was pleasant, but there was, even when it was happening, and this is before all my spiritual stuff, there's still a simplicity to it, where you go, all I have to do is be divorced guy,

divorced guy drinks, divorced guy eats Chinese food, divorced guy cries watching the sopranos, like you kind of get your script delivered to you every day, and it's easy, like Nobody expects anything from you. So there's kind of a weird equanimity to that. Similar here, there's a real forced surrender to it. Surrender, of course, of being a huge part of my spiritual identity, surrender, and suffering is a big part of my spiritual identity.

And suffering, I use Richard Roer's definition, suffering is when things aren't in your control. So it doesn't just mean like, oh, oh, oh, or boohoo, I'm sad. It just means things aren't in your control. And when you can't rely on yourself to solve something or change something, that's when you learn to,

this is straight-richer drawer, by the way. You learn to dig deeper and dig into a more infinite source that is a part of you. Some people call that God, some people call it consciousness, some people call it the universe. Whatever it is, that is sort of where a lot of truth is hiding from me. Something you said, what I really wanna say this to you,

because I think we're similar in this way. The thing that makes our addictions, money addiction, power addiction, influence addiction, being a good worker, even the addiction to honoring the time you've put in to get into your exclusive field. And that is a type of addiction. The problem when I talk to that part of my brain that tells me how special it is that I'm a

comedian that tells me things like, well, you're playing pro ball and your salaries inflated, but it's not going to last forever. So you should do as much as you can. He's right. That's what's so fucking tricky about this puzzle. Is if you sit down and have a rational conversation with that part of you that wants to say yes to things and travel and book and get the jobs, they're right. And I'm a NEagram 3. That means it's an achiever.

And one of the blind spots of the any a gram Three is that if it works, it's true We don't really care about a objective truth or big truth if it works It's true and I can just hear my father who I believe is also three saying like well What's something that's true that doesn't work? I was just having this fake conversation with him this afternoon. And I was like, friendship, friendship doesn't work. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't work. Like, you make a friend.

And yeah, they give you some good time, someone to watch a movie with. But then guess what? They call you when they're heartbroken. And now they're like eating into your time. You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying this is how I feel. I'm saying that doesn't work. It doesn't like help. It doesn't make you produce. It doesn't enhance necessarily. It just becomes like a crying baby like somebody that you have to feed and help and nourish. The same is true of love doesn't work. They have no utility, but they're very valuable.

That's exactly right. And I struggle so hard. I thrive in utility. I thrive in things that work. I have a really hard time and maybe you do too. It's like I had plans to see my friend Michael Gunger and he's a musician and we just kept putting it off because he was holding up finishing an album and I was holding up finishing a script. So the part of my brain that's utilitarian was like, that's right, that script could potentially

delight millions and it will make you money and it will make you important and it will make you feel good. He's right, but finally, I saw Michael last night and I'm in an incredible mood. You know what I mean? It was such a, it didn't work. It didn't make me money. It didn't even like, I can't even say it lowered my stress necessarily, but it probably did actually.

Now that I say that, it was friendship and that is something that I'm trying to learn. I'm trying to learn how to be a better friend, try to be a more embodied person. All these things that don't necessarily make like economic or power or sense, but that makes sense what we say in the heart. Okay, so there was a stoic, his name was Cricipus, and he supposedly one of the only people to ever die of laughter. Do you believe that's possible? Uh, I think Cricipus. Cricipus?

I think Cricipus had a heart attack, or was doing whatever synthetic drug was around then and had a good ole laugh and that tipped it off. You've never laughed so hard you thought you could die? No, no, no. The joke, the joke partly survives to us. So apparently he was like sitting on his front porch and a donkey walks up and he starts eating out of the garden. and the person, you know, rushes up to get their donkey and he says, does your donkey want some wine to wash down those figs and then he starts laughing at his own joke and he laughs so hard that he kills over and dies.

So it's kind of the ultimate like you had to be there because it makes no sense. Okay, Crescipus, I know what happened. Okay. Because that joke is bad. Yes. So that's not... She tied him embarrassment.

That's not a joke is what that is. First of all, we tell you what's happened in Crescipus like. Okay. Everything is shit. Okay. Everything is so... But this is actually my favorite emotion. The everything in his life has just exploded and then crumbled to rubble.

And it was that moment. When everything seems like it's just the worst and you have that realization that I'm just gonna sit here and just there's nothing to be done anymore. It's all rubble and you're sitting in just the grief of it all. And then something silly happens. And you know, it takes, it's like when you laugh after crying a ton or you know, you're sitting in your house, it's been destroyed by tornado and something silly happens and everyone laughs. When you're laughing in the hospital room after somebody just died, it's just sad.

All this terrible stuff has happened and then one more terrible thing happens and you just start laughing and not only at the absurdity of it. That's exactly what happened to him. Okay. It was just the dumbest thing. Somebody maybe right before that had choked on some one of somebody he loved choked on wine and died and he goes, you want some wine with that thing? And died. From all the major emotions hitting him at once, I think that's what happened because

that's a really bad joke. It's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Yes. Okay. Yes. Alright, that's an interesting theory. I hadn't thought of that theory. But it is my favorite emotion is laughter in the midst of despair. Yes, yes.

Where all, and actually there's a thing from Seniko where he's talking about life is terrible. He basically says life is terrible. You can cry about it or you can laugh at it. Like take your pick. Yeah, it is pretty beautiful and cruel all the time. Yes. Like like like the raccoon.

Well if you take it personally, it sucks. If you're just like, all right. It's nature. Yes. Yeah, and I'm part of nature. I do think it's funny because Dosisum has its reputation as being very humorless or very serious or being without emotion. And then have one of the original dudes literally die of laughter.

I like that. Oh, yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't think he was laughing at it because he thought it was the funniest joke in the entire world. Unless I'm missing. So you just can't stop yourself, you know, like, you know, like, you know know, P homes? Yes. And his podcast he has this question goes, can you remember the time you laugh the hardest? And it's never usually the funniest thing. It's usually something really dumb or weird or drugs are involved, as you said. But it's, it's not normally like, and now I'm

going to tell you the funniest story of all time. Yeah. And you're going to see why I was laughing so hard. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's always, you had to be there. Yeah. It's always you had to be there. So I'm wondering if it, maybe there was some, maybe there was something that would make sense if you were there. Very much. It was the tip of the pyramid of despair for him. That isn't, that isn't interesting take on it, which I would not have thought of, that maybe only a comedian would pick up on, which is that, yeah, there, there's some level of despair or pain or anguish that would explain the, the enormity of the laughter.

Yeah. Like, normal circumstances, you, you chuckle. Yeah. That's, that's my favorite kind of comedy is I love storytelling, but like the story, one of my favorite comments, Tegna Taro, and she is my top. But most of her stories are just these most, like the most embarrassing, ridiculous moments of her life. The jeopardy one is amazing. Where she blew it on jeopardy.

I didn't remember what the artist was but so bad. It's so obvious. On national television. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so good. That is her. You're real fortunate, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was real fortunate. But I know the moment, oh man, and she's so good at sitting in the moment and just letting

people kind of sit in the awkwardness with her that you just can't help yourself. But like erupt in Latter because it is kind of uncomfortable and you feel the embarrassment and whatever. And I think that is the best comedy because everybody feels it humanizes everything. Yes. And it's not you're like kind of you're not like degrading somebody or anything else. You're just bringing somebody into a very embarrassing moment or you can be a dark moment. And then like through it all, you kind of give up. And then there's always like, I don't know,

there's that little moment of laughter at the end. That's just Bill Burr's great at it. Mm-hmm. You know where he's just, he's trying so hard to be a good person, but he was born know, he, he was born with all these angry demons inside. Well, he has a child that was fucking horrible.

Right, right, right, right. And he's now he's got a kid and he's certainly good for the kid. And the moment when he's fighting with the toaster and the kitchen and it's just, uh, yeah, I like, I think the funniest moments in those moments of pure laughter and enjoyment come from a dark place before. Yes. There's a joking meditation. It's not very funny, but Marcus is.

Is this the thing one? It's almost as bad. He's talking about this person who's so rich and has so much stuff that they have no place to shit, like that their house is so full of stuff. I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't,

I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, philosophers being an inherently not fun person, which is sad, because actually I think what being really smart should do is allow you to poke fun at the absurdity of the world and see the contradictions. Even he has this thing about posthumous fame that I think is funny because like people who long for posh miss fame forget that people in the future will be just as stupid and annoying as the people who are alive right now. Yes. I'm like, that's a good, that's like a, that's a little bit.

Like, that's a, that's a funny joke. Yeah. And I think it's also true. Right, right, right. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I think a lot of a humor is, is letting go of, um, right, right. I, and sad. Well, I think a lot of humor is, is letting go of perfectionism and ego. And one's illusions. Yes, yeah.

And realizing like that it's all, it's all, it's realizing it's kind of all, I mean, everybody's gonna die. And it's always, there's an expiration date. And so it's like, take seriously that everything isn't so serious. Yes. Because it's gonna end, everything's gonna end. Thanks so much for listening.

If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it, and I'll see you next episode. Hey, Prime Members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic Early and Add Free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and add free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts.