The Daily Stoic - Comedian Katherine Blanford on Laughing At Life

Episode Date: April 19, 2023

Ryan speaks with Katherine Blanford about her earning things throughout her comedy career, her Catholic upbringing, why the funniest moments come from a dark place, how her mother influences her comedy, and more.Katherine Blanford is a comedian, writer, podcast host, and YouTuber based in Atlanta, Georgia. She has opened for many renowned comedians, including Jeff Foxworthy, David Spade, and Ron White, and she recently made her television debut on The Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon. Along with fellow comedian Lac Larrabee, Katherine co-hosts the popular podcast Cheaties in which they interview guests about their personal stories of cheating and being cheated on, and help each other heal through laughter. Katherine’s work and upcoming shows can be found on her website: katherineblanford.com. ✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic Podcast early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast where each weekday we bring you a Meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics a short Passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well-known and obscure, fascinating, and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are,

and also to find peace and wisdom in their actual lives. But first, we've got a quick message from one of our sponsors. Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stewart Podcast. I was out for a run in Miramar Beach, Florida along the boardwalk overlooking the Gulf of Mexico, one of my absolute favorite places in the world. And I saw this woman and her boyfriend and her dog out for a walk.

And I thought I recognized the person and I was like, who is that? Did I go to school with them? How do I know them? Have I seen them somewhere? And I kept going recognized the person and I was like, who is that? Did I go to school with them? How do I know them? Have I seen them somewhere? And I kept going, I run, and then I reached the spot where I tend to turn around when I run down there, I turn around and go back the other direction,

and I pass, and I go, that's Catherine something. That's Catherine something. And I was like, I follow on Instagram, she's a comedian. And I pulled it up, and it was Catherine Blanford, who I had seen recently on the tonight show, which I'm a fan, who I was clips I'd seen on Instagram many times and is an absolutely hilarious comedian.

And we were messaging back and forth and I said, they were leaving, the weather was about to turn. So they were heading out of there. We were gonna hunker down for a couple more days. And I said, hey, next time you're in Austin, you should come by, we just built up this new podcast studio, which I think you've heard me talking about. And I would love to have you as one of the guests. And it turned out she was going to be in Austin for South by Southwest. And she came in. I think she was a second or third guest. We had an amazing conversation. And then she went back to do her gig.

And I'm sure it was amazing. She's open for tons of huge acts, Jeff Foxworthy, David Spade, Ron White. And she has her own podcast, Cheaties, a juicy podcast about cheating, because as she says, therapy is too expensive. And we talk about a bunch of awesome stuff. It was a great conversation.

I'm excited to bring you this. You can watch the video of today's episode over on youtube.com slash daily stoic podcast. You can check out her work at Catherine Blanford.com on Instagram and TikTok. It's Catherine Blanford. She has a YouTube clip. It's got like 20 million views, another one of like 10 million views. Her story about salt daddy is hilarious. All her stuff's great. You can follow her on Twitter at the biz.

Niz here is my interview. The one and only Catherine Blanford. It's funny, I talk to lots of people and a good chunk of those people haven't been readers for a long time, they've just gotten back into it. And I always love hearing that and they tell me how they fall in love with reading, they're reading more than ever and I go, let me guess, you listen audiobooks, don't you? And it's true, and almost invariably, they listen to them on Audible. That's because Audible offers an incredible selection of audiobooks across every genre from bestsellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, and of course,

ancient philosophy, all my books are available on audio, read by me for the most part. Audible lets you enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app, you'll always find the best of what you love, or something new to discover, and as an Audible member you get to choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog, including the latest best sellers and new releases. You'll discover thousands of titles from popular favorites, exclusive new series, exciting new voices in audio. You can check out stillness is the key, the daily dad I just recorded. So that's up on Audible now coming up on the 10 year anniversary of the obstacle

is the way audio books. So all those are available and new members can try Audible for free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash daily stoke or text daily stoke to 500 500. That's audible.com slash daily stoke or text daily stoke to 500 500. Life can get you down. I'm no stranger to that. When I find things are piling up, I'm struggling to deal with something. Obviously, I use my journal, obviously I turn to stosism, but I also turn to my therapist, which I've had for a long time and has helped me through a bunch of stuff. And because I'm so busy and I live out in the country, I do therapy remote, so I don't

have to drive somewhere. And that's where today's sponsor comes in. Toxbase makes it easy to find a therapist that you like. It's convenient. It's affordable. By doing everything online, Toxbase makes getting the help you want easy and affordable. So why wait? And talk space can help with any specific challenge you might be facing. That's why it's the number one

online therapy platform with license therapists and over 40 specialties. It's secure and private and in network with most major insurers as a listener of this podcast, you can get 80 bucks off your first month with talk space when you go to talkspace.com slash stoic to match with a license therapist today. Go to talkspace.com slash stoic to match with a license therapist today go to talkspace.com slash stoic to get 80 bucks off your first month and show your support for the daily stoic. That's talkspace.com slash stoic. So when you go home tomorrow? Yeah. No, LA. I'm splitting now. I'm doing paint rent and LA and Atlanta. Why? No, LA. I'm splitting now. I'm paying rent in LA and Atlanta. Why Atlanta?

Because I started there. I have a dog there that I can't. I can't leave my dog. You can just take your dog wherever you live. No, he lives with my boyfriend because I'm gone all the time. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm also a boyfriend. Yeah. Sorry. Did I just say dog? Not worth mentioning. That's not what's dying you to hear it in any way.

I'm so sorry, my dog and my boyfriend. Dog and some guy, it's also there. He has a caretaker that I appreciate sometimes. I'm sorry, I have a dog a hot tub and also my boyfriend there. I think I've seen both of them. Oh, yeah, you have. Oh, we had our dog with us. Yeah.

We got kicked out of the beach in Miramar. Yeah, you can't have a dog. We brought our dog to the beach there before and like some person pulls up on a truck like almost immediately. Oh, yeah. It's never when you're at the beach and someone else has their annoying dogs.

Then of course, there's no enforcement whatsoever. No, nobody here's. I just go, I think the beach is like, that's God's land. Can we, or whatever do you know what I mean? Like, can you just, can we not, can you have, you can let a creature, if you have a creature, you can bring it on the beach with you.

Have you been to the dog beach in Huntington Beach? No. There's a dog beach and then you're like, oh, this is amazing, but you're also like, this is why they don't allow dogs. Ooh, cuz. Well, it's just, if everyone, it's like when you're flying and one person has a dog, you're like,

this is amazing, a dog. But if everyone had a dog on a plane, you'd be like, this is a nightmare. I don't, I disagree. I would rather be on a plane full of dogs and no humans. A full of dogs barking at each other. I don't think anyone knows what that would be like. It would be terrible.

Yeah. I also, I'm the person that, you know, lets my dog walk up and sniff people and they're terrified. I know one of those people that has the fake, like, comfort animal. He is. He is. He is. I would, if my dog didn't bark at anyone

that looked him in the eyes, I would, he would come everywhere with me. No, I saw you, your boyfriend and your dog on the beach in Florida, and I was like, I'm pretty sure that's that person. Yeah. But I always, I'm never sure. I wish I was someone who was just like,

if I saw someone that I thought I recognized, I was like, oh, that's you. Even if it's like people, I'm like, I think I went to high school with that person or I think we met before, I'm definitely like, I'll email them later to be sure. That's so nice. I just Google and go, yep.

But do you go up to them? Or do you, or you just like, now I know? No, I don't go up to them. I, cause I don't trust my own mind. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't have the, whatever the extrovert gene of like, I deserve to talk to this person. Yeah. I will tell them whatever I'm thinking.

I'm, I'm like, nah, I could be wrong and that would be weird. Yeah. Oh, I have like, I have very much that where I've, I, like even, even, I have like, I have very much that where I've, even if I'm in the green room with somebody who is a legend, somebody walks in or somebody that you have been following or you're a huge fan up for years,

I have such a fear of turning into a fan that I will, I'll like shut down. And I mean, like the first time I met Jeff Fox or they weren't a tiny green room together. And I'm just kind of like, have my arms crossed and I'm like, what's up? Hey, how are you? You know, I'm so afraid of turning

into what everyone else is that I do the opposite. It probably turns them off. And I also think if you're someone who, like, if you have a process, like a headspace that you're trying to get into, I'm always very hesitant to like interrupt that. Like, you never actually mind, but then I think you're sort of like,

well, I don't want, if they mind, I don't want to be that person. So I was always like, I just, I was at like a 90% and then I went to look and I was like, wait, she follows me, that's crazy. Oh my God, the chance is. You know who, I found you through his Nikki Glazer.

Really? Isn't that funny? That's hilarious. I didn't know she follows me. But she's amazing. Yeah, she's reposted some of your stuff. Oh, really? Yeah. That is very funny.

I know. I would not have guessed that. I know. Yeah, she's great. She's a great, like repost her share of different mediums. I've seen her post your stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, she'll post comics, but then she'll post,

she's a, I love finding new cartoon artists through her and but she's great. I mean, she's, I think that's hard. Like if you're someone who has a platform, like obviously you're building the platform for you. So, like, people, I think, are reluctant to, like, share other stuff. But weirdly, like, I found at the beginning of my career, I was like, okay, I want to be an author.

And I want people to buy books from me. But why would anyone follow me before I've done that thing? And so, like, I started my career just recommending books to people. And then people were like, oh, he has pretty good tastes. And then they ended up liking me. And so it's somewhat counterintuitive, but actually being generous and like championing other people's work is like a really good strategy.

Huge. Comedy world. It's, what I've learned is building your own audience is huge, but that helps you sell your own tickets, but the, like, next level of, you know, getting, being on a panel on somebody's show. Yeah. Or, or, you know, like, podcast helps, or guests, whatever, all that else. That is totally word of mouth via comedians. Only. And people who are champions of other comedians, it only helps like

Berkreicher. Joe Rowland, you know what I mean? They are huge champions of other comedians and you bring them on the road or promoting whoever's opening for them, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, I mean, if anything is as selfish as you can be, it ends up helping you. Yes, especially if that stuff's really good. People, like, someone once pointed out to me, like, if you introduce to people to each other, like, you know one well-known person and you're like, you know, you should meet and you connect you know one well-known person, and you're like, you know who you should meet,

and you connect them with another well-known person. You elevate to that level, which I never thought about. So when you introduce people, or let's say more, I think, relatively, if you introduce two people, and then those people fall in love and say get married. Now you have a very close friendship with those two people because they have a close friendship.

Even if you are just like acquaintances, you didn't spend that much time together, but you created a bond between two people. Now, the three of you have an intense, not even indebtedness, but you have this connection that they share with no one else because you're the only one that introduced them. And so, when you champion someone else's work and then someone likes that work. So like if I, 10 years ago recommended a book to someone and that book changed their life,

I changed that person's life a little bit by being involved in that process. Yes, yes, yes, yeah, for sure. And like, it's like this is not gonna make sense. I mean, when I say this, but you're, you're the two in the H2O. Sure. Yes. I know that's not how it is. No, whatever. Is that how elements work? There's like the binding things. Yes. I don't know what it is. In my head, there's, you know, there's a circle here and a line and then two other circles, but you're the line. Sure. Sure.

The circles aren't dirty without the line. I don't know enough chemistry to dispute this, but that sounds correct. Okay, this is why I enjoy you though, and this is a compliment for what I say to this. I, for a long time, and I still am a big fan of Tim Ferris. And I met Tim at that South by Southwest. I'm really.

Yes, he invested in Twitter. I thought I was a stupid idea. And that's where our paths diverge. Yeah, yeah. You both doing great. But I think like I I was trying to read Seneca from listening to him. from listening to him and I'll just say it. I think I have a lot of spirit with a simple mind. Sure. And what I enjoy about you in reading your books, though, is you kind of relay it in a more relatable way to somebody who, sometimes when I was trying to read Seneca, I wasn't retaining an hour of what I read. What is funny is that sometimes people will be like, when you see the people that don't like your work,

they're always the loudest people. Right. To you, they're the loudest. Is comedy, you could be killing in a room and all you see is the one man with the frown on his face. Well, and the people who are like, that was pretty good. No one writes that comment.

It's usually like, I fucking hate this person or I'm obsessed with this person. You don't really like either of those or people you want to spend that much time with. But like they'll be like, well, I don't get why anyone would read Ryan's work, like just read the originals. And I go, sure, that's what you should do.

But you're not everyone. Like not everyone. And I'm not saying that everyone can't do it, because I actually think that they can't. But a lot of people need something between vague interests and 2,000-year-old classic texts that were written in Greek or Latin. Right? Like it's preposterous to think that that's where most people should start with anything. Yes, and it's like what I related to is like I, okay, I grew up Catholic or right, whatever. You would go to Bible schools, a little kid. You're not reading straight from the Bible and breaking it down.

You're going and they're teaching you, you know, like stories, like in a child like form. And then you remember those stories and then later you read it in the Bible and it's much more theatrical and it makes you get the names in that place as you vaguely understand the lesson of the story. And you can read as an adult. Were you like Catholic Catholic or just like kind of Catholic?

Oh, when we were talking about high school, I went to all girls Catholic high school. And then my, I don't, when people say elementary school, middle school, I've no idea what they're talking about. I would just, in Catholic school. I went to grade school. It was kindergarten through eighth grade was,

you went to the school that was the parish that you belong to. And then you went to the same sex Catholic high school. And then I ran away. We, I grew up Catholic or at least I thought I was Catholic. Yeah. And then we moved across town when I went to high school and we just weren't Catholic anymore. And then I realized we were like proximity Catholic.

Yes. And so I was like, okay. So. And then I realized we were like proximity Catholic. Yes. And so I was like, okay. So then I hear people, they were like, they're Catholic. I'm like, I mean, I did all this stuff, but like we clearly weren't that Catholic. Because if a 20 minute drive, you know, eliminate your Catholicism, you were, you were not really Catholic.

Oh, for sure. I think it's, I think it's still dwindling as I mean, yeah, I hear about my grandpa's stories about how he went to church every morning at 6 a.m. before he would go to work and like, and you know, my uncle was, they were all alter boys and one time my uncle's doing the incense and of course passes out and you know,

my grandpa like, you know, he gets a lashing for passing out from the incense, making him pass out. And to our days now, it's just, I think every generation gets a little bit more lack with it. Well, right where we bumped into each other, because I pass it all the time when we're down there, is there is a Latin mass Catholic church, like right across, like right at the end of that boardwalk,

there's a lot, and I'm always like, that would actually be interesting. I would know what was happening, but I would definitely like to go to that at least once, but then I'm like, eh, Sunday. Right. There's so many other ways to get your fix once, but then I'm like, eh, Sunday. Right. There's so many other ways to get your fix without sitting in a stiff pew

that I think people learn. I don't follow the fallicism at all anymore. I do find comfort in going sometimes and just sitting in mass and hearing like the choir and something else. They're gonna roll cathedral, right? Yes, yes, especially like not in America. Or New Orleans would be the only city

that you get that sensation. Where you're like, oh, this is a fit. I am participating in a ritual. Like my Catholic church growing up was in a tent because they were building the church. So it was like one of those permanent tents, that football teams practiced in in the summer, like one of those ones.

So there was none of that, right? This was like, it felt like a high school gym, but then you go into any church that's the same more than 200 years old, you're like, okay, thousands of people have sat in this exact spot and heard the exact same hymns and chants. And you're like, even if you don't believe in it, you're like, there's something kind of sacred about this process.

Very much, yeah, it's a comforting thing. I don't know what it is. Yeah, I like, even if you resist everything about it. Well, I went, I was in Budapest, like right before the pandemic, which is actually where Mark's real estate meditations. And I was like walking back to my hotel and I saw this sign for like a concert in like a cathedral.

Yeah. And I went, which I would like never normally do by myself. And so it was like a choir singing for like an hour and a half or whatever in this church. And then it totally changed even my understanding of the architecture because you're like, oh, this is what this was designed for. Like the way the acoustics of the, this like the acoustics of the building

because there weren't microphones when this was built. Like, and you're like, oh, this is like a whole other level of the experience that if I was a peasant in 1600 and obviously all the breakthroughs we've had in science since and then, you know, the church hadn't been systematically molesting boys for, you know, all the other things that we know now was not there. There was just an organ. This would have just, you would have been like, this is it. Like, this is the height of the human experience right here. Yeah, it was, yeah, now they're, now, you know, at 16, you hear EDM for the first time, and you're like, wait a minute, DJTS does got something.

Yes, no, you realize there's other ways to get that thing. Yes. And probably part of what religion is struggling with is that they were the only game in town for a very, very long time. Because they banned all the other games. Yeah. But now it's a little, there's different ways to scratch that itch. Some good, some not so good.

Yeah. For sure. And you go through phases. What, you know what I've always said, though, is what I really enjoyed about my high school though, was that it was an all-girls Catholic high school, but like, it wasn't strict in that, we had feminine spirituality. And my teacher taught about women from the Bible, but she taught it in a way that was like,

here's why you don't hear about a lot of women in the Bible. Why was that? Or, you know, it was a lot, she would go back in time and be like, you know, it was a lot, she would go back in time and be like, you know, back before it was, you know, before it was taught a monogamous relationships, women actually, before a patriarchy, and I'm going to say this in a very vague way. Okay. I remember, but before there was a quote, patriarchy, women really were seen as more powerful because

right, they could breed children. And for whatever reason, eventually turned into they sort of teach practicing monogamy and monogamous relationships so that one man could hold control over one woman, breed enough children to tend the land, right? And the farms or whatever else. So I don't think that that would have been taught in a normal Catholic tradition, but it was cool to kind of like my school was kind of more you weren't the popular kid because you were the pretty girl that the boys enjoyed. You, if you were the fun loud or smart or interesting person,

you were more maybe treasured. That's cool, that's untraditional. I loved same sex school. I just thought it was, I don't, I think it just, it encouraged you to be more yourself than the traditional high school. And I think things could be taught and said or it was, it was, it was what a limited certain distractions and competitions and sources of conflict. I imagine. Yeah, very much. Yeah, I mean, I'm like, I'm like,

I'm not every school, but I'm like, if I had kids one day, I would be so open to put in them in the same sex, what I'm supposed to be saying now, I don't, same, yeah, I'm gonna go with same sex. I was picking my oldest up from school. He was like maybe five and we passed this, these men and nights, there's like a men and I community out here

and they were like, they had like a garage sale. I was like, this seems interesting. So we pulled over and he was like, I want that like fire truck. So I was like, I used to stay in the car. I rolled on the window. I went to get the fire truck, getting the fire truck. They were like getting me something.

I forget what it was. And so I was like, oh, are you guys like, men and I? Oh, they're just shooting. What is men and I? Men and I is like, Amish, but a little bit more, little, like, they don't drive around in horse and buggies, but they wear like the bonnets and dresses.

It's like a very traditional sort of like orthodox religion. Where you just, you're like, oh, they're living in a closed, like insular society that is not absorbed all the sort of mainstream dress really. Yeah. So I'm just asking them about it. I'm like, are you men and I?

Like, obviously they're men and I, and they were like telling me, and I said, oh, is your church around here? I've never actually seen the church. And they were like, yeah, it's right down the street. They sort of mistook this from like, for like serious interest in me, like wanting to explore a minute night religion.

And they were like, you should definitely come sometimes. You can like come whenever you want. And I was like, yeah, sure, maybe I will. And my son heard this and he was like, dad, no, don't. Don't. And I was like, like, Clark, like, it's good. He's like, no, no, no, church is boring. And I was like, I was like, at first I was mortified,

but then I was like, how do you know this? I've literally never taken you. You've never been. And somehow you just instinctively picked up that kids hate going to church. He's like church is boring. How did he know? I don't know.

I believe it's a mystery, but yeah, and then we were like talking about God after, and he's like, God's not real. And I was like, well, some people think he's real, and they think he created the universe, and he was like, no, that's not how it happened. And I was like, how did it happen? And he was universe and he was like, no, that's not how it happened. And I was like, how did it happen? He was like, you know, the earth collided with the sun,

you know, just like, just some, which was like, you know, equally absurd, but it was like, it was at least in the ballpark of the scientific explanation of the universe. And I was like, where did you get any of this? Because it's not for me, like, I deliberately not talk to you about it. And what YouTube video did you watch where of this? Because it's not for me. I have deliberately not talked to you about it. And what YouTube video did you watch where you decided church is boring and you don't want

to go. So it was quite an experience. Well, also it was church is boring. And this is how the earth was created. Was that in the same type of innovation? Yes, probably. Probably, probably Mr. Beast talked about it or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What do you purposely not talk about creation and whatnot else? So they can form their own opinions? Yeah, I think so. I mean, like it was baggage that I had to shed off as I got older, you know, like so I went to college and then I read like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harrison. And I was like, okay, there's more complicated than some of these sort of simplistic, you know, intelligent, not even simplistic,

but simplistic would be like God created the universe. But that, I don't even think, is what religious people advance for the most part. Now it's like, these sort of like, well, what about this? You know, they sort of, they try to like overwhelm young people's minds with, you know, like, how, if you've,

if you heard like the argument for the watchmaker, like if you found a watch on the side of the road and you looked at it, could you believe that this was created by sheer accident or would you have believed there's a watchmaker, right? Like the idea that evolution is impossible for evolution to create complexity. Yeah.

So you hear things like that and then you have to kind of unlearn those things as you get older. So our thinking was, we're not gonna indoctrinate them with anything. Either way, it just is not something we really have to talk about. And then so for him to come up with like,

church is boring, I don't wanna go. Also God is not real. You're like, wow, okay, maybe we should have had the conversations, I don't know, it was very difficult. I don't want to go. Also, God is not real. You're like, wow, okay. Maybe we should have had the conversations. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's also hilarious. It's honestly pretty, um, pretty like he's starting to zero. You know what I mean? He's not starting with some very specific belief. I think that's pretty base level. Yeah. Yeah, I, when I think isn't stressing and what I'm learning more is the agenda

behind the origins of religions. What do you mean? Which is so, like, where religion started, like, region-wise, what was, who was in control at the time, and what did that society need? And I think the religion starts to form around that. And what needs to be controlled in order

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Well, what I think is interesting, you're talking about the Santa Cub being somewhat difficult to get into, but like, so, Santa Cub in Jesus, if you believe Jesus was a real historical figure, which I do, because we hear about them both from Tacitus, the Roman historian. Like, I think there's enough historical evidence

that you could go, he actually existed. Was he just a man? Was he? That's a secondary argument, but that he did exist, right? He and Sennaka are born roughly the same time. They both are born in provinces of the Roman Empire. They both become very popular philosophers in their own time.

But it's like, when you read Sennaka Seneca, Seneca is like saying what he means, you know, like talking about actual real life things. And then, you know, you read the Bible and you're like, what? How did this, like this sort of, the parables, I think, are interesting. But how did this, like, contradictory, confusing, like mystical text become more or less the dominant text of Western philosophy, whereas like this guy who's talking about making money and having children and being happy and being a good, like just coming out and saying

what he means in like plain English, although not literally English, you're like, where did this road diverge? And why? And who did it suit to go for the less accessible, the text demanding the most interpretation? Who did it suit that we went that way? Is it, do you think it's because people who, you know, wanted to just be happy and serve themselves as much as other people wasn't as beneficial?

Why am I gonna give myself in trouble here? But here's what I actually think happened, is that in the Roman world there were all sorts of cults, right? Yeah. And not in the, like, the modern sense of the word, cult, but like, okay, Hadrian, the emperor who selects Marcus Arrelai's to be emperor, he had this male lover named Antoninus Antonius, I'm forgetting his name,

but he like died, right? Tragically, it like 20 years old, he drowned himself. And so Hadrian creates a cult in his honor. He basically like gloms him on to the Egyptian cult of the Cyrus. They build temples to him and every city they go, people worship him to curry favor with the emperor. But for like hundreds of years later,

this cult is like still an existing cult. And at one point rivals Christianity in terms of its size. I think a big chunk of it is like it was a cult like the others and it just historical happenstance. It's the one that's stuck. But I do think there's an interesting society makes a choice between sort of philosophy and religion. And I don't want to say that's the wrong choice. I would just say that was a problematic choice because philosophy, I think, serves people and society better than a religion, which you believe is the one

true religion, which you have to then evangelize, which then people who are not believers in that religion are infidel, and you have to carry favor with this mystical being. I think that was a big historical, what if is if like stoicism is the dominant sort of guide to living versus religion? What does that, what does history look like? Right, it's almost like religion creates blind followers.

Yeah, since when I'm like, who does it serve? Like obviously the people who are heading that thing have a reason to go like, well, here's the thing, you don't understand how the Bible works. So let me tell, there's a, it actually serves a purpose that it can be interpreted a thousand ways as opposed to, you know. Yeah. Because like, I mean, there's a line from Hillel where someone asked him to explain like

the Old Testament of the Bible on one foot and he says, love thy neighbor as thyself, all the rest is commentary. If that was actually the Christianity that passed down, we would live in a very different world. But instead, it was deliberately opaque and complicated, and then especially in Catholicism, there's all these layers of bosses and, you know, Cardinals and archbishop's. Yeah, yes. Yeah. I mean wait, it's just it's interesting. I think when you just go maybe they weren't necessarily I'll just say it. They really didn't give a hoot so much about heterosexuality versus homosexuality, but it was a well, now we need to create

a, well, now we need to create followers. How do we create a din, you know, the family structure that creates the children who then also become followers and that, that, that, that. I don't know. It's just, it's not, I'm just, I just think it's interesting to, to also understand. Yes, sometimes people, if I post something that's like, you know, even remotely, like sort of pro gay rights or transays or people go, what do you think Mark? It's a really is what I thought of this and go. I don't think you want to know what the Greeks and Romans were doing. Right. It was not your friends here.

Right. They were all right. It was like very much. They all had lovers of different sexes, right? This is a weird. Okay, this is a very weird riff that I was thinking about the other day, which is speaking of which, okay, so like, obviously now most people are heterosexual

and a minority of people are not, right? Or more fluid, let's say, right? From what they're telling themselves. But like, if, like, let's say you go back 50 years where we're much less accepting, you're a gay person and you're forced into a straight relationship how awkward and weird that would be.

But what about in Roman times, if you really were very heterosexual, but the pressure, the normal thing was a much more fluid world. How weird would that be? You're just like having, you know what I mean? You're just like, you're just like, you're not to also take a male lover,

like just so people don't think I'm weird. Like that was so uncomfortable. I know, I'm sure, were they probably having like, it was much more open too, right? Yes. Like, you know, I mean, I imagine, you know, the town fountain,

there's just nine naked people in there. I do think orgies were more common. Although from what I understand, their version of male on male relationship, like penetration was considered more feminine. And so it was like a weird thing involving the thighs. Like we're getting further afield than we need to get.

But like it's even our understanding of like what, like male on male sexuality is was different. Yeah, it wasn't just penetration-based. Yes, yes. Yeah. Although there's some super sexually explicit room, and even our understanding of that is, so like obviously just random texts

from Greece and Rome did not survive. They had to be copied by hand over and over and over again, and we get the 5,000th facsimile of something that somebody wrote, right? And it was mostly in monasteries that they would do this, that like, this was sort of their meditative exercise, with like, someone would give them some old document that they found in Pompeii or whatever. And then the monk would have to write it by hand, like hundreds of times. But you can imagine if they're reading some super erotic gay poem from Salist or whatever,

there are some censoring happening or just like who knows what they had, they were just like, no. Right, right, right. Straight in the fire. Adding. They go, and the moist thighs. Yeah, they're exactly.

Rub together till a flame ignited. Probably even worse than that. Yeah. I mentioned these are the guys that are in trouble. These are that's like detention for them. They go, you're going to rewrite the erotic. One of the priests is like, he's really into those. They go, they go, and that's Carl's room.

That's where that comes out of. All right, so back on topic. When I saw you, I was running, right, and you used to be a runner, you still run? No, hate it. Okay. I hated running in Cross Country also, which I did all four years of high school. My parents said you have to do a sport. Yep.

And I went to the first high school football meeting and the coach was like, everyone get the fuck out. You know, and I was like, nope, not for me. Not gonna do that. So I ran cross country and I hated it then. Now I love it, but you just still hate it.

Hate it. Hate it. I love sprints. Oh just still hate it. Hate it. Hate it. I love sprints. Oh. You're sprints, most of them are treadmill, but no, I hate it. You just crank it way up. Yeah, I do, I'm weird. I do 15 of 33 seconds on, 20 seconds.

Oh, look at the interval workout. Yeah, okay. And I do 10 at 11.5. And then I go 11.8, 12, 12.2, 12.5, 12.8. Have you ever fallen off? I haven't. I've gotten real, I mean, body end, I get really close. I know it's a weird, it's a, I don't know.

I don't know what it is in my body. I don't feel satisfied with a work. I love working out, but I don't, I can't work. I love working out, but I can't leave the gym or whatever workout feeling like it was just a waste of 30 minutes. I have to be. You have to be like, you have to really feel it. Yes.

Have you ever done one of those treadmills that's like human powered? Do you know those? Oh yeah, the ones with the kind of the arc. Yeah, you're making it turn like a monster kind of. I like those who those make me feel like I'm about to fall off all the time though. Yeah.

I like one that's forcing me to just go as fast as I can. But you don't like sprinting on the ground only on a treadmill? I like it on a treadmill only. Yeah. Even like, but I imagine most of the time you're on like janky hotel treadmills that like don't feel safe more than like a six. Oh, it's it's it's terrifying

Yeah, yes, I usually so I love lifting weights I okay, and like I'm I mean my this is so weird but my Instagram explorer page is just mostly form People teaching proper form. Yeah sure and then Beyonce and then raccoons and dogs. So that's it and then domesticated raccoons, but I I I guess I like get really distracted and running just feels so repetitive and There's nothing to like keep me I get so bored with it

Speaking of records. You know Whitney Cummings. Yeah, did you watch her story a couple months ago? She's like look at this raccoon and it's like all this and then it's like I'm in the hospital getting a rabie shot Oh my god, it's so good. I'm obsessed with these little guys. I'm obsessed with the people that have domesticated them and their little hands and everything. And then for every one of those stories, I love to read comments. I don't know why.

I just, reading comments on Instagram is my favorite thing. And there's just always the second one down is someone going, a raccoon killed my pet cat, a raccoon killed my new kitten. And I have to remember myself, these are not sweet angels. I'll show you a video.

We caught like five raccoons, five days in a row, and our pet care, a couple of ones go, they were like eating dog food, so we catch them and drive them down the road, drop them off. And they keep coming back. They keep coming back. Man, we never catch every single one. Yeah, so they're like,

we have any, it's like you have this, you're holding this cage, which is a feral, so. Where they were there. Where they. Yeah, then it's like you have this, you're holding this cage, which is a feral, very angry raccoon in it. I have this, I have this idea of them that they're just the sweetest little things and they, one day I'm gonna put my hand up to one and it's little pause, gonna put it, it's polyp to my hand and we're gonna fall in love

and I know, I know they're feral creatures. Well, raccoons like to dip what they're eating like in water. So if you see them when they eat cotton candy, they're like, I get tagged in a lot of these now. I've made it very well known that I'm obsessed with raccoons. Horses was a thing for a while now.

It's back to raccoons. Yes, but whenever they have like the cotton candy or the gauze or something, whenever it disappears and then the little hands are going frantic, looking for it after it dissolves. Oh, yeah. High school cross country was insane in retrospect because they would be like, okay, 14 year old boys,

go for a 50 minute run and come back. Like, we would just go to my friend's house and play video games or go through a rockset thing. It's like the amount of trouble that we got in was insane and that my parents thought this was better than me being at home in retrospect makes no sense. Yeah, or not even going to a friends house but like they go run trails.

You're just running into the woods and hanging out with high school kids. You know what you're gonna do in the woods? Yeah. Or whatever else. and it was your own cut? What do you mean? Oh, you couldn't know cut from the day. Yeah, so there's a bunch of people that can't run it all.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love to call them the shufflers. Where they just, you know, ch-ch-ch-ch, and they just shuffle into the woods. We would go to the grocery store and get food. Like, we'd come back with a sheet cake and we could just eat it. It was just not, I think if I try to explain it, I can't imagine it's as unsupervised now

as it was 20 years ago. Yeah. Because like, everything's more supervised, but that is one of the things where it's like, you know, when people would describe their childhood and you're like, what? Like, when parents are like, we didn't have car seats. Yeah.

This seems like that. It's like, what are you doing? Like, and it just encouraged like the worst tendencies. Because we, like, they were, I think they thought it was instilling discipline. And for us, it was like, no, when adults are not watching, you can break all the rules. You, oh, I've been given a 50 minute play time.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and then my favorite was when I was called, I was the helper horse, gripping Kentucky. I would have paced people. Well, what I would do is, for whatever, I was friends with the girls that were really good, though, the ones that really cared, because there's only seven that could run in the varsity race. I mean, everybody else, and then there's 200 other girls that were really good though, the ones that really cared because there's only seven that could run in the varsity race.

I mean, everybody else, and then there's 200 other girls that can't. And I would call myself, so when you go to a race, I remember in a racetrack, watch race horses, you know, they had the horses that walked the other horse to the gate. Yeah, yeah. That was sometimes it's a goat, like a component. I've never seen a goat walk a horse. Or not to the thing, but they'll have it like to the gate. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's a goat, like a camper now. I've never seen a goat walk a horse. Or not to the thing, but they'll have it like in the stable. Like they go to be alone.

Yeah, there's like comfort goats. Oh, that's adorable. That was my, that was all my coach saw me was. It was just fine. Yeah, sure. It was just walking my friend that was on the varsity team to the front of the line. And then, and then he'd be like, all right,

you do whatever you want, I don't care. And all he really cared about were those seven really fast girls then he'd be like, all right, you do whatever you want. I don't care. And all he really cared about were those seven really fast girls. And then the right, because I, I mean, I talked about my stand up. I fake passed out a lot because I, so, I was just, I was like, what, I hate this. I'm over this. I didn't want to disappoint my mom and just quit running. So I would instead fake pass out.

And my coach never believed me. Like people would rush over and be like, oh, how dare you, okay. Just her stagger a little bit and then go down. So bad, no, but the joke really was, in my standup, I'm like, you know, and then on your way down, you grab a girl's hair for witness.

Yes. Because I learned, I couldn't, I couldn't like pass out in one of those areas where there wasn't a lot of fans or people around because one time I did that and then I just laid there for like 20 minutes fake passed out and then had to get up Right crawl a little bit further and then fake pass out again So you have to wait until you're in a in a popular area to fake pass out so the mom's worried about you But my coach never believed it.

He would look at me roll his eyes and keep moving. There was the kids who are really good at it who really tried. And then there was like everyone else who's just sort of dicking around. And I always, like, now I'm really into it. I run almost every day and I push myself and I like it. I regret that I wasn't serious. And I remember I was talking to this friend of mine who's on the team and I was like,

you know, I wish one of the coaches had just taken me aside and like, why are you afraid of trying? Like, you should really put, you should really commit. You know, you should have called me out. And then, you know, who knows what would have happened? And he was like, what the fuck are you talking about? They said that to you like literally every day. They were like, you were like,

I told myself that I was like this reachable kid, but just no one reached, or the no one thought to reach out to. And in fact, they were just constantly reaching out. You were even taking it in. It was like the wall, wall, wall, wall, wall, wall, to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a hard sport to really, unless you want it, it's a hard sport for eating and 10.

Well, that's the thing. It's ultimately about what that you want it. Yes. And to be, like now, I'm sure in your career, like no one's like, how do you do it? You're totally self-motivated. You have to do it. And to have that when you're 14,

and like the playing field's not level because different people have different types of parents, different genetics, to be that at 14, 15, 16, 17, even 18 is like, that's not normal. Not normal. And like Carlos Cont, contribute is so, um, it's like it's, there's,

there's not a lot of variation in how to be good. You're just a fast runner. Like, there's a lot of other sports that you could be a great, if I mean, football, there's how many different, there's 11 players on the field. There's like specialization. Right. Yeah. You could be, you can be a great kicker. You can be a great running back. Buh, buh, buh, buh.

I love sports. But like, you basketball even, you know what I mean? Like you could be a forward. You could be a guard. Those are the same thing, I think. But just running real good for three miles is all. But just running real good for three miles is all, it's just, I do think people that are like running

and are still runners now, like yourself are the super humans with a good noggin on ya, because for you to like sit there and tell yourself to keep running, you're probably pretty healthy inside. Ah, the Bahamas. What if you could live in a penthouse above the crystal clear ocean working during the day and partying at night with your best friends and have it be 100% paid for? FTX Founder Sam Bankman Freed lived that dream life, but it was all funded, with other people's money, that he allegedly stole.

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music or Wondery app. I mean, it's, they're so-as-waitlifting, so sprinting, whatever you do, you ultimately should realize it has, you have to be self-motivated for it. Yes, yeah. you do, you ultimately should realize it has, you have to be self-motivated for it. Yes. Yeah. Although because Cross Country was no cut at ours, there was a couple of kids who were like handicapped, so we had like mentally disabled kid on the team and I remember one time. He would always start like really fast because he didn't like totally understand how it

worked. And I'm sure everyone was super mean to him, although I remember him being super nice, but I remember one race he like sort of came out of gate, like super hot, like run. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he went the wrong way and everyone followed him. Except for like, you know, the whole front pack followed him. So everyone went the wrong way. The whole race had to start over.

No, no, no. I don't think about it all the time. No, that's a game. That's a mental game. You can survive all the fittest. You can look at the cones. You know, that's so funny. But You can survive all the fittest. You can look at the cones. You know, that's so funny. I was looking at the person in front of him

and they have no idea. It was nuts. That would be so fun because in the middle of the pack actually wins the race. That's what happened. That's so funny. I love that. That's hilarious.

And the purity of it too because he like won, you know, or was like way ahead and then suddenly like the rate, you know, it's like what was supposed supposed to be three miles later, you supposed to come out in the finish line, but he's like, he's in there like five minutes in because it's gonna cut the whole thing off. It's like Rudy scores that touch down, but they're like the play was never. But he's on the wrong way. That's so funny. I'm gonna let that play out.

It's so good. Yeah. I would love, that's a show. I would watch on TV is a high school uncut cross country team in all different areas. Yeah, I've never really seen, yeah, that's not a sport that gets rendered in so many TV very much.

It's really boring. Yeah. The actual sport in itself is pretty boring, but people that can do it are super humans. Okay, so there was a stoke, his name was Chrysipus, and he's supposedly one of the only people to ever die of laughter. Do you believe that's possible?

Uh, I think Chrysipus. Chrysipus. Chrysipus, I think, Crecipis. Crecipis. Crecipis, I think Crecipis had a heart attack or was doing whatever synthetic drug was around then and had a good ole laugh that tipped it off. You've never laughed so hard you thought you could die? Mm, no, no. The joke, like the joke partly survives to us.

So apparently he was like sitting on his front porch and a donkey walks up and he starts eating out of the garden. And the person, you know, rushes up to get their donkey and he says, does your donkey want some wine to wash down those figs? And then he starts laughing at his own joke, and he laughs so hard that he kills over and dies. So it's kind of the ultimate, like you had to be there,

because it makes no sense. Okay, Crescipus, I know what happened. Okay. Because that joke is bad. Yes. That's not a... She tied him embarrassment. That's not a joke, is what. Yes. That's not a tied up embarrassment. That's not a joke is what that is. First of all,

we tell you what's happening across sip is life. Okay. Everything is shit. Okay. Everything is so, but this is actually my favorite emotion. Okay. Everything in his life has just exploded and then crumbled to rubble. Mm-hmm. And it was that moment,

when everything seems like it's just the worst and you have that realization that I'm just gonna sit here and just, there's nothing to be done anymore. It's all rubble and you're sitting in just the grief of it all and then something silly happens and you know, it takes, it's like when you laugh after crying a ton sitting in just the grief of it all. And then something silly happens. And you know, it takes, it's like when you laugh after crying a ton, or you know, you're

sitting in your house, it's been destroyed by a tornado and something silly happens and everyone laughs. When you're laughing in the hospital room after somebody just died, it's like all this terrible stuff has happened. And then one more terrible thing happens. And you just start laughing. You start laughing at the absurdity of it. That's exactly what happened to him.

And it was just the dumbest thing. Somebody maybe right before that had choked on some, one of somebody he loved choked on wine and died and he goes, you want some wine with that thing? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, and died from all the major emotions hitting him at once. I think that's what happened. Because that's a really bad joke.

It's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Yes. Yes. All right. That's an interesting theory. I hadn't thought of that theory. But it is my favorite emotion is laughter in the midst of despair.

Yes. Yes. Where all, and actually there's a thing from Seniko where he's talking about life is terrible. He basically says life is terrible. You can cry about it, or you can laugh at it. Like, take your pick. Yeah, it is pretty beautiful and cruel all the time.

Yes. Like like the raccoon. Well, if you take it personally, it sucks. Yeah. If you're just like, all right. It's nature. Yes. Yeah, and I'm part of nature.

I do think it's funny because Stoicism has its reputation as being very humorless or very serious or being without emotion. And then have one of the original dudes literally die of laughter. I like that. Oh yeah. I think, yeah.

I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't think he was laughing at it because he thought it was the funniest joke in the entire world. Unless I'm missing... So you just can't stop yourself. You know, like... True. So like, do you know Pete Holmes?

Yes, I like Pete. On his podcast he has this question, goes, can you remember the time you laugh the hardest? And it's never usually the funniest thing. It's usually something really dumb or weird or drugs are involved, as you said. But it's not normally like, and now I'm going to tell you the funniest story of all time. And you're going to see why I was laughing so hard. Yes. Oh yeah, yeah.

It's always you had to be there. Yeah, it's always you had to be there. So I'm wondering if it maybe there was something, maybe there was something that would make sense if you were there. Very much. It was the tip of the pyramid of despair for him. That isn't, that isn't interesting take on it, which I would not have thought of that maybe only a comedian would pick up on, which is that yeah, there, there's some level of despair or pain or anguish that would explain the the the enormity of the laughter like normal circumstances you you chuckle. Yeah, that's that's my favorite kind of comedy is I love storytelling but the telling, but the, like the story, one of my favorite comments,

take Nataro. And she is my, she's my top. She's, but most of her stories are just these most, the, like the most embarrassing ridiculous moments of her life. The jeopardy, the jeopardy one is amazing. Where she blew it on jeopardy. I didn't remember what their. Where she blew it on jeopardy. I didn't remember what their guess was, but it's so bad. It's so obvious. On national television. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so good. That is her. A real fortune, right? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it was real fortune. But I know the moment, oh man, and she's so, and she's so good at sitting in the moment and just letting people kind of sit in the awkwardness with her that you just can't help yourself, but like erupt in laughter because it is kind of uncomfortable and you feel the embarrassment and whatever. And I think that is the best comedy because everybody feels it humanizes everything. Yes. And it's not, you're like kind of, you're not like degrading somebody

or anything else, you're just bringing somebody into a very embarrassing moment or, or you can be a dark moment. And then like through it all, you kind of give up. And then there's always like, I don't know, there's that little moment of laughter at the end, that's just Bill Burr's great at it. Mm-hmm.

You know where he's just, he's trying so hard to be a good person, but he was born with all these angry demons inside. Well, he has a child that was fucking horrible. Right, right, right, right. And now he's got a kid and he's sort of a good but he was born with all these angry demons inside. Well, he has a child that was fucking horrible. Right, right, right. And he's now, he's got a kid and he's starting to be good for the kid and the moment when he's fighting

with the toaster and the kitchen. And it's just, yeah, I think the funniest moments and those moments of pure laughter and enjoyment come from a dark place before. Yes. There's a joking meditation. It's not very funny, but Marcus is. Is this as good as the thing one? It's almost as bad. He's talking about this person who's so rich and has so much stuff that they have no place to shit, like that their house is so full of stuff. I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can, I can, I can't, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, not fun person, which is sad because actually I think what being really smart should do is allow you to poke fun at the absurdity of the world and see the contradictions. Like even he has this thing about posthumous fame that I think is funny because like people

who long for posthumous fame forget that people in the future will be just as stupid and annoying as the people who are alive right now. Yes. I'm like, that's a good, that's like a, that's a little bit. Like, that's a, that's a funny joke. Yeah, and I think. It's also true. Right, right, right.

And sad. Well, I think a lot of humor is, is letting go of perfectionism and ego. And one's illusions. Yes. Yeah. And realizing like that it's all kind of realizing it is kind of all. I mean, everybody's going to die. And it's always there's an expiration date.

And so it's like take seriously that everything isn't so serious. Yes. Because it's going to end. Everything's going to end. Yeah, he says in meditations, he was, remember that Alexander the great is buried next to his mule driver.

They're both in the same ground and the same thing happened to both. You're like, that's both, that's it. Like obviously there's a more serious way to make that same point. So I think he's choosing to be absurd and ridiculous. That's really funny. I love that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. I sometimes like, all right, I'm obsessed with the odds. And I just think she's just so artistically smart and like, you're like, how are we made up of the same beings? And then I go, no matter who, like two people are next to each other, I always say, it's like, we're both gonna die. That's the thing you have in common.

In the end, the Destiny's Child, they're all equal. Right. That's so good. That's such a good point. So yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a very dark outlook, but also kind of freeing. Yeah, it should be freeing.

I mean, there's a juvenile who's this Roman poet. Yes, juvenile. be freeing. I mean, there's a Juvenile who's this Roman poet. Yes, yes, that's juvenile. I don't know how to pronounce any of the names. They didn't learn them in school So I'm just like whatever popped in my head as usually. Yeah, but he he was talking about Alexander the great and he says You know the whole world was not enough for Alexander But in the end a coffin was sufficient world was not enough for Alexander, but in the end a coffin was sufficient. That's the... That's the...

He's so great. I love these. These are very funny jokes. Yeah. I mean, it's true, too. It's like... I think I just... When I started comedy, it was like eight months after my mom died when I was 22 years old.

That's kind of what pushed you to do it, right? Yeah, but I always say one of the greatest, my mom was great mom and I learned a lot from her. One of the greatest she gives, she gave me though, was dying at an early age for me because it kind of gave me this outlook and life like, well, shit, I mean, you know, I'll go to shit whenever. and gave me this outlook and life like, well shit, I mean, it can all go to shit, whatever. And I mean that in the most freeing way. That I just was like, okay, I'm gonna do,

I'm gonna work hard, but I'm gonna work hard at this stuff I wanna work hard at and not what I think I should be doing. I'm gonna do whatever the hell I enjoy doing. Should give you a sense of the shortness of life. Yes. As opposed to, you know, people you a sense of the shortness of life. Yes. As opposed to, you know, people get really old, they have lots of time. Yeah.

It can always get to it later. Right. That's not really true. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And like, it's, I'm like so weirdly grateful for it. That's interesting. Yeah. It's beautiful. I mean, that's the best thing you it. That's interesting. Yeah.

It's beautiful. I mean, that's the best thing you could take out of it, right? Very much. Better to be, better than being tortured by it. Yeah. And then one of my first, like, bits that ever really popped off when I first started comedy was about, it was so, I'm not even that dark now, but it was a bit about,

if I was the only, her only daughter, so I had to pick out her coffin outfit, and we were the same size though, so I just, I couldn't part with anything that was cute, and I asked when I would get it back. You have a bow talks one about her too, that's for sure. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You see her mom everywhere. Right, yes, yes, and that's very true.

Yeah, yeah. I know, I can't believe they let me do that on national television. Was that scared was was that that's probably the biggest stage you've been on right? Yeah, very much. I was Laughing the entire time because I was like these people have not figured out that I don't belong here and I have just keep falling deeper down these cracks and I've somehow ended up on Jimmy Fallon stage and I think, when are they gonna figure it out? I don't know, hopefully they post it. And the Tannitro sort of like, I mean,

it's a little different than it was 30 years ago, but that is like the biggest thing that a comedian can do. And you did it pretty early. Yeah. That must be sort of like one. I did everything you can do, but I still wanna keep doing it. Oh yeah. There's a million things I wanna do now, but yeah, it was,

I had to learn, I had a lot of imposter syndrome, but then I had to go, because the way it happened was super fast, right? I said videos go viral,, ended up with a manager. And then this is kind of a lot of stars aligned and I ended up on Fallon. But then I had to go, no, no, no, no, you, you worked your butt off for eight years before that.

Where you might have skipped a couple steps professionally to get to the Fallen point, but you were there because you were ready because you did the background. But I actually think that's a harder journey because you get the thing and instead of having that like care it, that you're working towards,

that you got it earlier, and in my career, some things like that happened. So then it was like, okay, now how do I not fuck it up? And then how do I prove to be the exception to the rule, which is that people fuck it up? Like, you don't get it early because it's bad for you.

So how can I prove that actually no? Like, I've deserved it. And I'm gonna be worthy of it. To me, that's the harder, rarer journey. Yeah, I mean, I had to learn a lot of that stuff backwards where I got Fallon and then I was, it was still in Atlanta and like, I wasn't touring headliner until right after,

I mean, two weeks after Fallon hit the road and it kinda hasn't stopped since then, but it was, I hadn't like, you know, been doing an hour on the road to people who are buying tickets to see me because they've seen all my stuff online, and now I gotta write new stuff. Yeah, right, you can't just do, you can't have the anonymity of being

just another person working on their stuff. Right, correct. Suddenly you had to perform at a level and with a consistent sense that is more demanding. We're just buying a ticket to see in Berger, Rotone, Florida. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was terrifying at first.

And I think you just put your head, I just put my head down and I go, okay, first thing I'm gonna do is learn the new hour, learn how to write the new hour to do this. And then, because there was so many things, how do you sell tickets, how do you push tickets, and if I was like, why are you an expert in all five things at one time,

then I would just start beating myself up and I had to come part to mentalize, compartmentalize and take one task at a time. And but it is, um, I don't, I think what I meant by like, going back and going, no, I did the work, I deserve to be here. I had to keep saying that to myself because I think you do start to hear the people talk. Sure. And then you kind of just have to know what you,

I don't know, I think you just have to have the confidence in yourself and the confidence and the work that you've done. And know what you're doing right now. Do you know the Marcus Relis story about in Foster Syndrome? So, Marcus Relis isn't born to the royal family. He's just like this regular kid.

It comes from a aristocratic, wealthy family, but he's just like this kid. And the Emperor Hadrian doesn't have a son. And so he meets Marcus when he's a child, and everyone sort of senses there's something special about this kid, but like the worst thing in the world for a young person is to be like told, you're gonna be like look at Prince Charles, right?

It's up to you. So, Hadrian adopts this older man, Antenina's Pius, who's in his 50s, on the condition that Antenina's Pius adopts Marcus Arrelius. So, he sets in like not just who's in his fifties on the condition that Antoninus pious adopts Marcus Arelius. So to set, he sets in like not just who's going to succeed him, but who's going to be next after that person. And so when Marcus, who's, you know, then like maybe a teenager is like told like someday

you're going to be king, he supposedly like breaks down in tears that he sort of weeping over all the bad kings in tears. That he's sort of weeping over all the bad kings in history, he's weeping over the fact that his like normal life has just been obliterated and it's like not sure he can do it. And then many years later when he's told like, okay, it's actually going to happen now. That night, he dreams that he has shoulders of ivory. And the idea, the message or the omen in this is what the Romans believe, was that the shoulders of ivory was like God or whomever telling him that he was strong enough to bear the weight of the burden

that he was going to have. And so I kind of think about this idea of like, you don't think you have what it takes, you don't think you're strong enough to do the thing. But you are, and actually the fact that you're having those doubts, like the problem with most leaders or kings is that they believe inherently that they are worth it and deserve it and it will be easy

and they're special and better than everyone else. And it's actually the fact that you are doubting it, that's like proof that you're not beyond redemption and that you will do the work. And you are worthy of it. Yes, exactly. That you know you have to earn it as opposed to it's what you deserve.

Very much. Yeah. I so agree with that. And I think what I learned too is, it is almost that it's like the Lord of the Rings thing where that little, the power of, you get the taste all of a sudden of how good it feels. Come being from somebody who didn't have,

you know what I mean, who worked really hard at it. And it was hard for a long time. And also, you get the taste and it feels really good. I appreciated having like eight years of nanny in 10 hours a day and then going to the open mic the night before and stuff because you really, really do appreciate it. And it feels so good when you finally have it that you're gonna work your ass off

so you never have to go back to Nanny again. You know what I'm losing? Could you know how hard it is on the other side? When it is absurd, it's like, oh, it suddenly happened, I got it sooner and it's like, no, actually, like, literally years of work went into this moment. Which no one sees or everyone discounts.

Like, my first book came out when I was 25, which was absurd, but I'd literally been writing every day online since I was 18. You know what I mean? So I've been doing it for six or seven years. For sure. And so that's an extremely long time. I mean, I'm much better now than I was then

and I wish maybe it had come later. But everyone thinks it just happened for you and they, or we want to think that it just happens for people and maybe it does algorithmically for a few random people who are the first on this platform or that platform, but 99% of people who have it, like it was an incredible amount of work. And this is, I would even include the Necko babies.

Like, it was, like, there was still a lot of shit that everyone eats a lot of shit. Very much. Oh, for sure. And the only true test is if they can continue it. Yes. If they can not fuck it up. Yes. Yeah, very much.

Yeah. And that is, I think the algorithm can push somebody blah, blah, blah, blah, and you can catch heat, which is fine, but can you keep the fire going? And that's more than one time. Very much. Yeah. And that takes, well, that takes a lot of determination and effort and no, and continue because the flame's's gonna go out sometimes. It's always an up and down thing. Can you keep your wits about you when it's someone else's turn to shine bright and you fall off from in it?

Also a lot of quantity, right? It's like you put one thing out and it blows up great, but you may have to put up a thousand more things to get the next one. It's not gonna be number seven that blows up again, unless you're like, you know, the greatest fall time or something. Yeah, very much.

Yeah, I'm learning that. I'm like, I'm trying to build my new hour right now and I don't want to put it on the internet. So I'm putting all these like, local riffs up or crowd work and it's kind of soul crushing because you're like, oh, this was what everyone's doing. But it's a way to keep engagement without burning. I've been doing more like all your stuff

that I saw on YouTube, for instance, it's all shorts, and you don't have like anything over longer than like three minutes for some reason. I've got 10 more minutes that I want to fine tune, and then I'm going to be ready to put this hour out. Oh, interesting. And then for me, it's right now, it's just the, you know, it's impatient.

I want to put something out, but I go, if you can just, if you can just hold on. Hold on to the cliff. All right, well, I'll hold my car. Hold on, yeah. This is awesome. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Of course. This is awesome. Thank you very much. Thank you. Of course. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the Daily Stoic early and ad-free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple podcasts.