The Daily Stoic - Former NBA Star Cuttino Mobley on Pursuing Greatness and Developing Balance in Life

Episode Date: December 21, 2022

Ryan speaks with former pro basketball player Cuttino Mobley about the challenges of adjusting to life after basketball, growing up with Kobe Bryant and Rasheed Wallace, why pursuing greatness is not for everyone, how Cuttino approaches parenting as a single father, and more.Cuttino Mobley, a.k.a. “Cat”,  is an entrepreneur, podcast host, and former American professional basketball player who played in the NBA from 1998 to 2008 for the Los Angeles Clippers, Orlando Magic, Houston Rockets, and Sacramento Kings (Ryan’s favorite team). He announced his retirement in 2008 due to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Following his retirement, Cuttino was named the recipient of the Philadelphia Sports Writers Association “Native Son” Award. Since 2017, he has competed as co-captain of Power in the Big3 3-on-3 retired NBA players and prospects league. In his podcast, Dad’s Point of View, Cuttino discusses the journey of Fatherhood with sports, entertainment, and media personalities.✉️  Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic Podcast early and add free on Amazon Music. Download the app today. Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, a short passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well-known and obscure, fascinating, and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are and also to find peace and wisdom in their actual lives.

But first, we've got a quick message from one of our sponsors. are and also to find peace and wisdom in their actual lives. But first, we've got a quick message from one of our sponsors. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wonderree's podcast business wars. And in our new season, Walmart must fight off target, the new discounter that's both savvy and fashion forward. Listen to Business Wars on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic podcast. As you are listening to this, I am just wrapping up the first draft of the Justice Book. It was a book that I very much,

disperred of at the beginning. I thought, like I talked about in the end of Discipline Estesity, I thought about asking for an extension again, thought I really needed it. I didn't know if the material was going to be there, but if you remember the email from a couple days ago, the Hemingway one, that piece of advice from Hemingway that all you can do is keep going and don't stop to get to the other side. That's all you can do. Well, that advice served me well. And here we are with a draft of the book, editing and other stuff will commence from here. Still lots of work to do, but the only way out is through and I made it through or I made it through to Checkpoint, you know, whatever and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and I was really excited to take a break to talk to today's

episode with Ketino Mobley aka cat iconic NBA player from when I was a kid, he played in the NBA from 1998 to 2008, 10 years. That is a hell of a career. He played for the Rockets, the Magic Sacramento Kings, my favorite team, and the Los Angeles Clippers. He had a sort of unceremonious and abrupt end to his career, not unlike the one I talked to Chris Bosch about a freak medical

condition, doesn't pass his physical, can't keep going. And he has continued to play and push himself as an athlete in different ways. He played in the big three. And now he has an awesome podcast called Dad's Point of View. You can follow at D-P-O-F view on Twitter and Instagram. He interviews some of the biggest names across the country to discuss the real struggles and journey of fatherhood. You can follow him on Twitter and Instagram at Katino's Life.

I really enjoyed this interview. And let's just get after it. Thanks to Kat for coming on. And I think you're going to like this interview. And let's just get after it, thanks to Cap for coming on. And I think you're gonna like this conversation. Well, I should say we have a beef to squash, to start, which is that Doug Christie was my favorite basketball player growing up. You're a Sacramento Kings fan and you ripped my heart out.

Doug, I love Doug, man. You know, Doug and I, that's actually my guy. I'll tell you a funny story. Really? With Doug. So I was in Orlando Magic. Doug was that Sacramento. And I asked for a trade from Orlando because it's my first time ever. I was the captain of every single team I was on. Every team didn't matter. Even when I went to Sacramento, they Chris Webbernam had me become the captain. Because I had more of a voice, sort of, speak. And Doug, they traded me for Doug. Doug went to Orlando. I went to Sacramento. I Love love love sack. It was the best But I needed a new challenge in life because Sacramento was always known for going to the playoffs. Yeah, and for me I

Yeah, I know you know the last time we have went was when I was there I know this very well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was tough. So what happened was the coach that we had in Orlando, I mean, the guy was a buffoon. It was just terrible. And it speaks a lot about the Eagles, the enemy, right?

Or I always say purposes, you know, purpose before ego. They had traced some of the grade, all these guys in Orlando a year before. you know, perms before ego. You know, they had to face them a great eat all these guys in Orlando the year before. Now, Houston Rockets, when I was in Houston Rockets, we lost to the Los Angeles Lakers. You know, when they had Gary Payton and Kobe Bryant

and Rick Fox and Shkill O'Neal and Carl Malone had a massive squad. We played them nine times that year, nine. We lost five four. The record was five four. So we were even the whole year. Jeff Fringundi trades us through Orlando. Orlando, meanwhile, record was 18 and whatever, 100. Okay.

So myself, Grand Hills, the Francis, Dwight Howe was rookie year, all of us, we're starting off in Orlando's now, we're like one of the top teams. Because you brought three starters from the Houston Rockets who have his experience onto a team that was losing. Tracing the Grady went to Houston Rockets. So the coach, I guess he thought, when we started to get success, it was him.

It was really guys who knew how to play together. Sure. Right? Because we were together. So, he was telling Steve and I, he was going to cut our minutes and this, that whatever I'm going to see, and I was like, we were in our six year.

Like we're not going into our prime. Yeah. So I'm like, wait, no coach, that's not fair. Like it's my rook is my contract year. I'm top three in a league in 3.5% inch. We're gigging. I don't, that this doesn't make sense, whatever. So I said instead of fighting or whatever it is,

I said, listen, I went to the GM who was a native of Philadelphia, I said, listen, I don't think he's going to mess well. I said, of course, I want to stay with my guys, but he's talking my cut minutes and it's just like not a good thing. I said, I'm used to playing 40 minutes a game, because I was top in the league and minutes for six or seven straight years. So I said, can you get me out of here? And he's like, that's what you want to do. Sure. So he gave me five options. And he says, listen, I don't want you to go to a team that's doing bad.

I said, what about Sacramento? I was like, oh, I love the girl Sacramento. So he made the trade, Doug Christie. And then Doug went to Doug goes to Orlando. He calls me up after like two weeks. He's like, I hate you. He's like, he's terrible over here. I'm like, God, bro, I told you, it's unbelievable.

And they went, we went from first place in Orlando to all the way down, not making a playoffs. Now, I have such a traumatic relationship with the NBA because so I grew up a kid in Sacramento. They were bad when I was really little. And then basically my entire childhood from like when I could really pay attention to the game to when I left for college,

they were not just good. They were like the greatest show in the NBA. Oh, really? Yeah, it was incredible. And then like like, literally, they've just never been good a single year ever since then. And it's like this high watermark that I, that haunts me to this day.

But if Lani Diva would have just grabbed the rebound with two hands instead of tipping it out, the dynastie of the lake is would not have been. I know. Isn't it crazy how just one moment can change the trajectory of so much? So that's why I love you because the way you think, the way you think is actually how I think.

And in my life, for so many different things that's happened in my life, that it was just, it's like you can switch your brain in a millisecond, and it'll change the trajectory of your journey. Yeah. Right? And that's same thing, it's like, Vlad, he's like, Vlad, he,

if you go up with two hands and you grab that ball, you guys win the series, basically. Right? Like, you have a better chance yeah it changes everything now the other one goes on with Carmelo if Carmelo when you get the ball to the post after Michael Jordan goes past you right they pass it on the post and you cut through if he checks off first to see that Michael is one of the leading steals ever in history if he checks off first Michael is one of the leading steels ever in history. If he checks all first,

Michael doesn't steal the ball, hit the game winner. If he makes his free throws, the Chicago Bulls don't win two in a row. Like it's just these little things. You want to talk about Philadelphia in a moment. Ben Simmons goes Simmons goes for that dunk or that layup instead of passing it. You know, maybe his entire life, you know, multiple franchises, they all go in a very different direction. Yes, so true. So true, man. It's just, I'm telling you, it's the craziest. And I've been, I literally been through that, not getting a rebound, not doing this, not doing that. And then it changes. It just like, whoa, it gives you the other side of it. And that side hurts for a second

to you like really pay attention. Well, a similar moment to that, I sort of want to start kind of, I don't want to say at the end, but kind of in the middle of your story, which is, and I talked to Chris Bosch about a very similar moment in his life, although he also had one of those moments. You get the rebound, you don't get the rebound,

things goes very differently. But the moment when you learn that you can't play anymore, walk me through that. Oh, that was tough, man. You know, so, what happened was, I was very comfortable in LA. It was my third year with the Clippers. I worked out really hard that summer, okay? Because we went to the playoffs my first year with the Clippers. And it was massive, right? Not going to the playoffs for 14 plus odd years and you know now you get to LA and you're in the playoffs and

you like this you just be here all right you you feel a part of something right Sacramento was used to winning from Mayera right Houston Rock is used to winning from Mayera but then you go to a Clippers organization where it's like it's just not done right at the time So we make the playoffs that first year. I mean life was just amazing and Then the second year all of us injuries injuries injuries for every single one of us So I told myself that third year like listen get in shape get yourself right and then Baron Davis comes on and You know, we had a had a new unit Elton Brand wasn't there any now right so we had a new or Blake Griffin

Deodre Jordan kind of like messing the older with the younger me saying to myself in the back of my mind Ryan you know know what I'm going to finish out my career here. I don't want to do anything else. I just want to finish out here getting into business, students, do that. So my mind is 100% in play and ball, but it's not truly committed to the longevity of the game as much as I thought it was. Okay, so we're playing and beginning the preseason. Everybody's going fine, we'll find each other out. We go to play, okay, see. So we're playing Kevin Durant in those guys.

I have 27 points, I have seven steals, I mean, I killed this game. November 18th it was. I've never played a game since then in the NBA ever, after that, we played Philadelphia, we go to Philadelphia, there's a trade. And so now in this trade, I'm a part of the trade, couple of guys out, Al Harrington, Tim Thomas,

part of the trade. Tim Thomas of guys out here in Tim Thomas part of the trade. Tim Thomas was on my team at the time. So I didn't want to go to New York. I didn't want to play for New York because it was cold. I was used to the West Coast. You know what I mean? I was just, it was that for me. So I was contemplating, should I just, you know, go and just like sit down, like that's

just it, like I just want to sit down I'm not I want to play for New York and it wasn't against I love New York I love going to New York I love shopping New York a lot of my friends in New York But if like I've I'm gonna spend 10 months somewhere I rather do it on West Coast where it's the weather and ocean and you know I mean yeah, I was just used to that so Be careful what you wish for. So when they told me, we go up to, we go up to, we go to these doctors in New York.

I think the doctor was, the New York doctor was Lisa Hamilton. And you know, she takes me to all these different procedures and you know, listen, when I first played an MBA, first started an MBA, there was an issue, supposed an issue with my heart or whatever it was. Miss Diagnosis, the whole thing, the doctor that I had the very first time,

he said, I believe in you, I'm going to monitor you. And from then on, Sky's the limit, I just blew up from there. Fast forward to going to New York, they made this a big deal. They made it a really big deal. So when they made it a big deal. They made it a really big deal.

So when they made it a big deal, I was exhausted mentally. I was exhausted mentally. So they went from New York to all these different EKGs and CAT scans and this and that and all these different things. And you know, we go to Boston, we go to Tufts and then like now this doctor at Tufts is telling, you know, he's telling me, he's like, oh listen, he's trying to, he's actually scaring me.

Oh, you know, if you play, you can drop dead, you can do this, you can do that. And I'm like, wow, I'm like, well maybe, you know, I'm in my 10th, 11th year, maybe it's time for me to like sit down, I guess, you know, he's tricking my brain. And I'm usually the person that became down, I guess, you know, he's tricky my brain. And I'm usually the person that became successful. I was really strong willed, I mean, the individual. So again, like I said before, I want to play, but then like I'm more than kind of like, should I just like chill out from basketball kind of thing? Okay, he says, well, I don't think you should play sort of the doctor, Lisa Hamilton, New York doctor. They all assess the whole thing and then they say, you know what? I don't

think you should play basketball anymore. So I'm like, wait, what? I had, it took me time to like process what they were saying. Meanwhile, I still didn't process it. Yeah. And they were like, well, still didn't process it yeah and they were like listen we'll get you off his job here you're you know what for MBA you'll do this you do that blah blah blah you know what I don't first well mentally I'm not in that space I don't want to be here at all yeah I want to go back home right to LA so we get back to I get back to LA I'm I'm I'm literally walking down I think I I'm at Ralph Lauren store.

And my first time ever, Ryan, I had a panic attack. My heart was beating. I'm sweating. My palms, my hands, because I came to the realization that I cannot play the game I love anymore. Oh, it just hit you. It was delayed. Yeah, it was delayed.

It was delayed because I was always, I don't want to say good at it, but I was always suppressing. It's okay, let it go. Come on, next step, you know, those type of things. And in basketball, you have to, in sports, you have to do it. Because as you know, if Mike Bimby turns the ball over a little off and you have to get back on the defense, you can't dwell.

Sure. Because it'll make two points. So your brain gets tricked in like saying when bad things happen, let it go. Next, lay. Sure. Right? A lot of guys don't really understand that part.

So when you're dealing with real life issues, it's like, yo, come on, you all right? Let me go. Grandma, I'm dying. You're okay. Sister died. Listen, you gotta keep living. You know, it's like it's those things, right? So you condition your brain and to that. So I was really shocked. I cried. I, you know, for a few, maybe maybe six weeks, I was down. I was just in the house, you know, just thinking like, wow, I cannot believe I did this. I can't believe I manifested this into really, right?

Like not, and I kind of blame myself because the power of thinking, like I'm sitting there, like I just thought this into existence. This is crazy. Why would you do that to yourself? Saying that. Right. So, um, yeah, I came out of it.

I said, you know what? I'm gonna start working out. I'm gonna start doing this. I'm gonna start doing that. And um, I started walking. I started running. I started playing. I started doing more things.

Now, they're telling me, don't do none of this. Yeah. Because something can happen to you. Again, I went back to what may be successful. Sure. My mind, right? I go back to the same doctor to tell me I couldn't play, which was a Minnesota. And he says to me, he says, the first time I went was with my best friend, Alva Williams, who played for surround raptors. And, you know, Alva was scared also because we had to out of the dock and explain things.

And, you know, I go back to him a year later and the dock says, you know what? They took the test and said, you know what? Listen, whatever you're doing, you keep doing. You look really good, dude. So now I said to myself, wow, that's the mind. Because he don't know I was working out. He don't know I was playing ball. He don't know I was shooting, jogging up hills, lifting. He don't know I was doing these things. Now, mind you, they told me I'll do nothing no more. Now, no, none active.

That one thing. So I've sitting on myself like, the mind is so powerful. So then I got back into working out. And but for a period of time, about six, seven weeks, I want to say six weeks, I was down, man. I felt really like defeated. And I was blaming myself for manifesting those things.

Well, it's interesting that you raise a good point, which is that I think when you're really busy, when you're always going, you don't have to process stuff. You don't have to think about it. And not just, hey, you got to get back on defense in the middle of a game, but then there's a game tomorrow, there's a game the day after tomorrow. It's sort of like, you don't have to process your emotions, you don't have to process your issues, you're just always caught up in the next thing, but regular life isn't like that. All right, right, right.

So, I mean, again, regular life is nothing like that, but again, when is it ever regular for you? Do you've been doing it since you were 12? And didn't you know what I mean? Like you said before, if I became on Monday, and I became on Wednesday, and I became on Thursday, and I got to get on Saturday, like when you have time to feel bad, you don't.

You're just giving all the time. I'm paying you to perform. Yeah, right? Like Ryan Holiday, Ryan Holiday is a very spiritual, you know, uplifting, kind of giving you this boost and everything is like, if you're going to go speaking front of thousands of people, they don't really care if you're sad. Right. Sure. They care about the information you give them. Do you know what I mean? Like, the show must go on.

The show has to go on. How are you? You didn't know? Like how many people really care how you are? Like, you know, like, yeah, how you doing? And if I start telling you how you're doing, that's what they may come from a family of people who complain. Yeah. And then like, well, damn, that's huge.

I look up to you. How will you tell me how you give me something to help me out? I don't want to hear how you, like, your bad part, you know? Like, it's like we're not human anymore. Is that why athletes have so much trouble something to help me out. I don't want to hear how you like your bad part. You know, like, it's like we're not human anymore. Is that why athletes have so much trouble with the transition out of the game? Is that it suddenly, they were operating it, you know, a hundred miles an hour, and now they're at 50 miles an hour, or their identity was X, and now that's gone, and now you've got to figure stuff out in a new way. Yeah, listen, listen, you have to get your, you're forced to sit with yourself now.

Yeah. Now, like the tricky thing is, see Ryan Holley knows who he is. He was raised here, he did this, he evolved into this author, the speaker, this, this. You had a, you had time where it didn't, it didn't rush you. Yeah, sure. We were rushed in our development as athlete. And we just, right, as athletes, we're rushed because we're actually, I tell this, and this is any and everyone, we're little kids and grown up bodies playing adults. Yeah. So just because I'm 30 years old and Rick doesn't mean I'm an adult. Right. Right, like I'm a grown up.

I could be still this insecure kid, do it a whole bunch of money. Right. So mentally I'm this kid, but I'm an adult. You're looking at me, oh my God, you're supposed to be a grown up and you're supposed to be a... Well, that's not really true. You didn't really work on himself. Sure. Right, she didn't really work on herself.

She was just this pretty girl that was 21 years old. And she's been pretty since she was younger. And all of a sudden she has so much attention to she how many people learn When they win all the time. Yeah, sure I'm people learn when you lose right right, so You know, well a lot of athletes they don't really get to I'm just saying athletes, right? I've never been a doctor or a lawyer or one, you know, those type of individuals who also has the God complex, right? Don't as well because I'm saving

your life from getting you out of this situation. We all have these God-like complexes, right? Like, so it's a part of us that we have to massage the ego because sometimes the ego does help you, but then at the end of the day, what is the purpose before the ego kind of thing But you know a lot of guys don't get to sit with their original stuff because they don't really know it right like yeah When you were a little boy it was this little girl was this and then now it was certain it's like a you and then Collagen high school and then college and then in being a psych I'm just I'm an invincible. I I spray my ankle, I'm just, I'm uninvensible. I spread my ankle and I'm back in a week.

I did this and mom needs money here. Dad needs money here and this person needs, and you're not really like dissecting the problem. Well, it's like to be graded something. It, you're almost always gonna be unbalanced because you're so all in on that thing. And you can only be unbalanced because you're so all in on that thing. And you can only be unbalanced in something for so long before that starts to cause problems for you or it causes weaknesses for you. Just like

if you're too strong in one area, you're going to be weak in another area and that's where you're going to get injured. And you think about this, right? If you go on any athlete, parts of their body is weak in some point. Yeah. Basketball players overdeveloped quads, weak hamstrings, right? Yeah. Right. Now we have tight hips so you get football players flexibility, right?

They play sports in basketball. You can go down a line box boxers it doesn't matter so when you're right trained as a boxer I might not be in condition as a basketball player so if I'm a boxer and I go play on a basketball court one is skill set in how I'm going to dribble the ball and you know hand-eye coordination and then how am I breathing and how am I forming when I do, I say this to people, can you swim? It was like, oh yeah, yeah, I can swim. Oh, you can. Okay, you can swim and what, pull, deepen.

Okay, but can you swim in the ocean? Can you swim in the ocean when it's rough? Right, because it's different perspectives. It's the shacking life with so many different perspectives with people that go on. It's like me,, I'm nowhere near where I want to be, but that's why I've read so much and I ask questions so much and I try my best to accept what the universe has given me. Because I just, while I'm here on earth, I don't know what's going to happen after I'm going or before I was here, while I here I'm trying to retain as much as possible just in case I come back. Right? Well something else. I got a little

head start. That's how I think. Is this thing all? Check one, two, one, two. There y'all. I'm Kiki Palmer. I'm an actress, a singer, an entrepreneur, and a Virgo, just the name of you. Now, I've held so many occupations over the years that my fans lovingly nicknamed me Kiki Keep a Bag Palmer. And trust me, I keep a Bag Love. But if you ask me, I'm just getting started, and there's so much I still want to do. So I decided I want to be a podcast host.

I'm proud to introduce you to the Baby This is Kiki Palmer Podcast. I'm putting my friends, family, and some of the dopest experts in the hot seat to ask them the questions that have been burning in my mind. What will former child stars be if they weren't actors? What happened to sitcoms? It's only fans, only bad. I want to know, so I asked my mom about it. These are the questions that keep me up at night, but I'm taking these questions out of

my head and I'm bringing them to you. Because on Baby This is Kiki Palmer, no topic is off limits. Follow Baby This is Kiki Palmer, no topic is off limits. Follow Baby This Is Kiki Palmer, whatever you get your podcast. Hey, prime members, you can listen early and app-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Well, RC Buford told me a story once

that I think he would like about athletes. He was saying the Spurs had like an extra day in New York City. And so they took the whole team to like the whole team and all their families to like the Natural History Museum, some museum or whatever. And so the athletes were carrying their kids around the museum all day. And he said the next day, they had all these injuries. The guys were super sore and tight because although they're all in great shape, they weren't used to carry in kids like on their hips the way that their wives would usually do it.

And so these guys are like, you know, fine-tuned specimens, but just the slightest bit outside their comfort zone, outside what they normally do. In this case, spending time with their families the way a regular person would do on an afternoon in New York City, there were serious repercussions for that. I think about that all the time. You build this sort of delicate machine that lets you write or make money in your business or play sports, but you're going to be fragile because of that in the way that maybe a more balanced or regular person wouldn't be quite so fragile.

Make a great point. Love, I love you for these amazing. Yeah, he's the best. Yeah, he's the best man. All of Greg, Greg, Papa, there's those guys. They learn from an amazing leader. He's just unbelievable man. I wish I would have been coached by him, but

you know, I had great coaches. I had a Rick Adam, I was an amazing coach. He was just more quiet. Yes. You know, you know, and I only had him one year, but I have Rudy Tom John, which was an amazing mentor. But yeah, you know, listen, when you, it's like anything, man. Me personally playing boxing and then playing football, then playing basketball and playing tennis, there's different muscles of my body that hurts. Of my daughters, she'll come cry, she'll come crawl in my bed.

And before you know what she's like snubble underneath me, and then now my neck is sore, right? I'm trying to figure out why the rest of my body is like out of alignment, it's because, oh, I got this little girl right here, you know, taking up my space, something I'm not used to or whatever. So I totally agree and I get that man. No, I think about that with routine.

I know you've talked about sort of routine and discipline and training, but one of the things like I found so like, I'm a super big routine guy. I gotta write it at the same time. I gotta operate the data same way. I got to write it at the same time. I got to operate the day the same way. And then like the last two weeks, I had some travel. All my kids were sick.

It was raining. So they didn't want to go outside in a walk in the morning. All of a sudden my routine, it wasn't just like, Hey, I wasn't quite sticking with the routine. It was blown apart for like, you know, 14, 15 days in a row. And like I, it's, it's taken me for like, you know, 14, 15 days in a row. And like, it's taken me a while to recover from that, which I understand that that's happens. But I'm also, what I take from that isn't just like, hey, the routine is important. But also, if your success at what you do requires conditions to be in exact way, exactly as you want them. You know,

you're vulnerable and that's not a good place to be either, right? You like routine can't come at the expense of resiliency, right? Like if you're the person, you got to do it in this order, like I saw, you saw the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the pianist thing where he was trying to shoot those free throws after the game and they wouldn't the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the place to be. So yeah, no, so let me tell you this story. Kobe and Brian and I grew up together. Four years older than him. I will win. I was she Wallace. It's the mocking glattwell theory, right? Yeah. So many pros around each other. We don't even know where pros. We just want to be the best version of ourselves, right? Yeah. So, um, you know, people when Kobe was playing, you know, for so many years, it was like, oh, he's this and he doesn't like his teammates, he doesn't have friends, this that whatever, and he's in the gym so much blah, blah, blah.

I understood him. I understand him. is that I was like that for a period of time where I was exceeding. I was getting to, and I was, if things were out of place, you would feel it from me. Yeah. Because I wanted everything to be in place because there's a very small window to be great at something, right?

And especially when that something requires not so much time as it does age. See, because you can't be great at basketball at 40. Sure. You have to be great from like that, with your own approach, from like that 18 to that, like that 35 and didn't like, you're tilting away.

So that's a very short window compared to your life and hopefully your bustle is 80-something years old. So people saw Kobe as like this, you know, and then you see Redeen team and he comes in and everybody else goes to party and Kobe's going to his regiment and he's like, you know, everybody's like, well, I cannot believe you're going to four in a morning. And Kobe didn't argue with anybody. He's like, this is what I do.

This is who I am. Like, I can't, and I'm, when I get like that, I zone out because I know what's on the others. I know what's on the other side negatively and I know what's ahead of me. Success wise. What? This is how I get to this point. So, you know, I always tell me, listen, you have to like, it's like a method actor. Yeah.

Right? Like, if you want to become that, you have to really lose yourself. Yeah. And people have to understand, right? Because it's not for everybody. Yeah, or it's like, it's like an astronaut, right? Like you leave, you know, you leave and you go, you sort of clear the atmosphere, you're out in the space and it's great. You're doing what you do. But it's the reentry. You can burn up on reentry. You know what I mean? To go back to the, and now you've got to have breakfast with your family or now you've

got to stand in line at the DMV or whatever it is, right? When you go from this very sort of specialized controlled environment where you get to do what you do and cause an effect is very clear and you have a lot of control. And then you enter an environment like you did where suddenly the doctor says, hey man, sorry, I don't care how good you are at basketball, it's over. And now you gotta adjust, that's where life gets you.

Yeah, and then adjustment is like so far into you, right? So the next astronaut that is in space, he's either what one other person, I don't know if he's by himself, and now you come home to chaos. It's like the basketball player, right? Your chaos is actually comfortable with your peers because you've been doing that with them since you were 12. Now, you have a child and then you have a wife for the girlfriend, it's mom and dad are hanging around and brothers and sisters

and they, you know, and not saying everybody, but it's like, they're just waiting for you to make their life better. And it's like now all these other teammates, organizing a gym together, working out hard, right? The coach is on your butt. So there's a, you know, there's a lieutenant, there's a colonel, there's there's people that's there's like, yo, listen,

you got, then you get home and say, great, by the way, you know, it's just a different world. That's the red. When it's, it's not that it's not as rewarding, but it's not as, it's not as celebrated, right? Like, you know, the crowd doesn't cheer when you load the dishwasher, right? Or when you just make your job, right?

My wife sometimes says to me like, when I'm, and I've gotten better at it, but you know, you come home, you've been on the road or whatever you've done your thing, you're in a very sort of focused work mode. That's what you're thinking about. You come home and my wife would go like, you know, like, life didn't stop while you were gone.

Like shit happened while you were gone. You know, we're in the middle of all of that. Like we weren't waiting around for you to come home. Like you got to, her point was, you got to figure out how to reintegrate yourself into the system. The system doesn't reorient itself around you. Right, right, right. And you know, I go through that now. I'm a single dad. Yeah. So it's 50-50.

So, you know, this weekend I was myself. Yeah. And then my kids came back today, they come today tomorrow. I don't have a Wednesday Thursday that I have to get on a weekend. So I have to reboot my mind and I've been really good at that. After my fourth year in the NBA I said you know what, I'm not going to be an asshole, right? I'm going to take my positive is. And when I'm in the gym, I'm in the gym. And when I'm at home, I'm at home. And when I'm doing this, I'm doing that. Like I'm really committing to what it is. And I say this, you know, listen, if I go into the, um, and it's kind of like in the say this, listen, if I go into the, and it's kind of like in the same kind of context, when I go into the airport, right?

I'm not gonna go on like everybody else's frustrated anxiety and angry. Yeah. Right, I know what I'm getting into. So when I'm going home to my children, I'm coming happy with hugs and kisses and what should I do? And I'm not just so selfish and oblivious

to like taking out the trash and, you know, do dishes and like we have to practice these things, right? And it's okay for your life for someone to say, do it's listen. I understand that you do for us and it's amazing what you're doing. People admire you and what your all your ideas and blah, blah, blah, blah.

But take the goddamn trash out. So your kids can see that it's okay to do this too, right? Well, don't do that. Well, so someone once told me that the job of a leader is to make fast transitions, right? You're talking to this person. This is what they need. Then you're talking to this person over here, totally different, you know, totally different kind of person.

So you got a transition just like in basketball, you got a transition from offense to defense, you know, practice to games, you got a transition from offense to defense, practice to games, travel to whatever. And I think as a parent, that's the key too, is transitioning between work you and at home, dude. Husband you and parent you, fun you, serious you. You got to be able to transition quickly between all the different roles that you have

as a parent, as a professional, and as a as a human being. So I, you know, I love what you were, you were saying that, you know, you get up in the morning before your team was broken with the kids and everybody being sick, you would take the kids for a walk. Yeah. So we would do that all the time. And then my daughter and I would ride bikes every day because every single day, and I would play Pandora, whether it's Hall of Notes or a Lionel Richie station, it was just, it was beautiful, right?

Sure. That's one of her memories. So now that we moved into this new neighborhood where you can literally walk everywhere, it was windy last week so my kids have more allergies and headaches and everything. So now hopefully it's calm down a little bit. It's probably going back up, but we're going to get back into our routine of like just let's go take a walk. You may have to speak. Just let's just take a walk. You know those routines for me help set my days and set theirs as well, But we have a routine we get in a car also

when it's going to school, so it's no phones. Yeah. It's classical music, and sometimes it's just quietness. For us. For me, I feel like walking is the most magical thing. Like when my kids are being crazy of stuff isn't working, it's like, you know what? We're going for a walk.

And it was easy when they were younger. Like you strap them into a thing and they can't resist. But then with their crazy, I'm like, just don't, you know what, we're going for a walk. And it was easier when they were younger, like you strap them into a thing and they can't resist. But then with their crazy, I'm like, just don't, you know, we're going outside, you're gonna get this shit outside, instead of on each other or on the furniture, whatever we're gonna go for a walk. And I haven't found,

I would say almost every problem in life is made better by taking a walk, right? You're in an argument, you're feeling sad about something, you're nervous about something, your kids are going crazy, whatever it is, take a walk, and I think it'll turn the volume down on that problem just a little bit. For sure, and listen, I went early this morning,

I went to the sauna. Yeah, and I do a ritual I went early this morning, I went to the sauna. Yeah. And I do a ritual of sauna every single morning, getting back into lifting, I took about 45 days off, and just, yeah, I've been working out the sounds of kids. Sometimes just like, I need to take off or whatever it is. But, you know, the sauna always helps me because one, there's no phone. Yes. And, you know, I'm bringing a book in here. So like, I've read your book, you know,

a discipline is destiny in the Sonna, right? Some outline in the book and I'm doing things like that. And you know, I just, I get better work done when I'm jogging, Sonna, or walking. And it's the working out part for me. And I think that's just it clears my brain, so I can attack the day or not so much attack the day, but just I'm calmer with what comes with the day.

Yes. It's like you're not starting the day on your back foot. You're not like you're going into the day from the right frame of mind, the right sort of equanimity and poise. You just got to handle on yourself at least before, I tell the story in discipline, it's Destiny, Tony Morrison, she wanted to write every morning

before she heard the word mom. And you think about, it's like as soon as your kids are on you, you're like, you're already behind, right? I need this, I need that, what about this, what about that? And so if you can have some space or time in the morning where you think or you journal or you go in the sauna, or you work out or whatever it is, then you're not feeling like you're behind

or that you're playing catch up all day. Yeah, that overwhelmed feeling. When you're feeling overwhelmed, man, it's definitely... I'm good at that because I practice at a younger age and maybe it's basketball, maybe it's football, maybe it's being in a ring, whatever it is, but I'm good at being comfortable in the uncomfortable. Sure. And knowing how to settle my brain, right? Down to certain amount of seconds left, I have the ball like my breathing and what will happen and you know, and I but I prep myself, I'm shooting thousands of shots before that happens, right? I'm putting my mind in that space before it happens because so I can you know I'm tuning a crowd out like I think practicing those things before it happens opposed to smack you in the face.

Kind of helps you know especially when you're parent like yourself myself it helps your children react to issues and help them become sharper critical thinkers when situations happen in their lives. Well, I'm glad you brought that up because it's a good point. Like as adults who've been around a long time, we have a lot more experience than they do. And that was something that I've tried to remind myself the last couple of crazy years, especially with the pandemic, is like, they're having a hard time and they don't know they're having a hard time. Like they don't know that this is crazy

and stressing them out and weird. All they know is that they want something and they can't have it. And that's why they're throwing a temper tantrum. And so if you as a parent are focused on the, hey, that's not how we ask for things. What you're missing is that they haven't trained or been subjected to or have the familiarity with stressful situations that you have from a lifetime of practicing for this exact moment. You know, it's funny. He said my daughter. She's...

She would see her mom do a lot of like carrying a whole bunch of bags and huffing and puffing and doing all that stuff. And I explained to her, and my son, he was sitting in the seat to front seat, he's 12 years old and she was in the back. She's she's not now And he was like listen don't do that. That just ask for help You cannot just keep walking around helping him puffing and bringing us So I explained to him like oh listen, I said he's right. I said no one wants to marty no one wants somebody It's like passing aggressive There's only two words they can if you ask them is only two words they can give you yes or no that's it Yeah, and you got to take take both of them the same way right It's as simple as but if you ask guess what nine times I'll tell you help you yeah, right? So it's just about like teaching them

And then he's understanding because he's seeing body language from other adults. He's like nah, I don't want to know that listen Can you help me do this? Yes, that can I go here? No, okay? Cool like it's just like a it's like, nah, I don't want to. You know that. Listen, can you help me do this? Yes. Dad, can I go here? No. Okay, cool. Like, it's just like a simplified life. You don't have to make it as hard and hope people read your mind and, you know, all these different things.

So, she's, you know, she's getting, she's not your own. She's getting it where she's like, that, helping with my bags. Or, you know, can you go do this for me? And can you do that? I appreciate that because you're learning how to communicate now. Yes. And I don't think people, adults, they just don't know how to really communicate.

Just say it. Say it. And live with it after you say it. I'm so glad you said that. Because I think people wrongly think that stoicism is about this sort of invulnerability, this toughness, this fortitude and strength. And it is about those things.

But one of my favorite passages from meditation's Marcus really says, we're like soldier storming a wall. If you have to ask, if he says, if you slip, and you have to ask a comrade for help, he says, so what? Right, like so what? That's what comrades are there for. And I imagine as a basketball player, you learn,

it's like, hey, if you need help, right? Or if another player needs help, if communicating this is actually making you both better. Like that's why it's not one-on-one basketball. That's why there's five guys on each team is so they can help each other. But we, I think, because we are afraid to ask for help or look vulnerable, even if it's the cliche

about asking for directions or asking where something is in the store, what we're actually teaching our children is that there is something wrong about holding up your hand and asking your comrade for help, that it's not a so what. There's actually something weak or shameful about having someone help you with your bags.

Yeah, I think like I said earlier, on maybe in a captain for every team, I always ask to help. And I always want to, you know, ask me for help because we're together. Yeah, I don't want to do this by myself. You know what I mean? And I don't want you to do it by yourself.

Exactly. Exactly. And so I've learned that, you know, my younger years, I've just planned the sport and trusting that, you know, my peers, my coaches, my teammates, they're going to help me become my best. So I tell my kids this, I work for you. So that's what, you have to work for me. Right? Like, you got two jobs, right?

Do well at school and be a kid. That's it, that's all. That's all I want you to do. Be a good person, do well at school, right? Be a kid, that's it. I'll do the rest, I'll do the rest. That's beautiful. And yeah, like, you know, there are these moments

where, where, you know, your kid is really struggling with something or has some huge problem, and they don't ask for help. And they don't ask for help because you have, at some point, shown them that you are not a resource or that they can't ask you for help. And that can have tragic consequences. So it's why, I think, as a parent,

you have to be really focused on modeling the stuff. And when the request comes in, right, actually being open to it, not being busy or tired or frustrated or you already asked me that before, because if you're not available for help on the little things, they're not going to come to you for help on the big things. Yeah, it was something was said about that. If I can't trust, you would have small, like a small problem.

Yeah, it's kind of hard to, you know, when it comes to big something, I forget, I wrote it down, but it was, it was something to the fact that, but again, too, if, if, if, for just, you know, me being a single dad, it's like, so much, just like a single mom, right? Or even when your marriage is still a lot of stuff that, you know, goes on, even when you're sharing, you know, the, the, the house and, you know, the life together and all those things. But I learned a younger age. I was very aware of how my, I mean, this and I had amazing parents. My stepfather and my father both loved me to death. My mom, my stepmom loved me to death. But I had a mother, my mother had me when she was 19. So I had a young mother.

So her goals and her desires and things she wanted to accomplish was kind of, she showed it, right? Because of the frustration, this anxiety, and when my stepfather came along, he was more of a stoic individual. And he was reading books and he was tying, to some of the sharia out of tie tie and policy shoes. And this is how we saved money in.

And it's how we do the insinivis. Very old, the way you're older than my mom. So of course, right, he's teaching her certain things as well. And she was more of the chaotic one because she was younger. So now my 20s, my mom's in her 40s. And I'm in a pros. And she's just getting herself together as a person, right? So the first one at Grad's Rade from College, Temple, and I was the first grandchild at

Grad's Rade from College. So we had that in common as well, and we're both fighters. We're both fighters, but I think a lot of my personality came from my dad's lay back, and then my stepfather was more of a reader and he just wanted all the information he could get, you know, kind of thing. So, yeah, man, I was mixed with, you know, but I learned from my mother more so

than my stepfather of what not to do when my kids were like, because she was younger, she wanted to think, you know, she wanted to accomplish things, school, and work, and this, and that. So my kids said, you know, that you go do this, or, you know, can we do that? I'm like, yeah, come on, it's kind of,

okay, come on, go with you. Okay, even if I don't feel like doing it. Yeah. Right? Like, I've learned to be able to do those things, but then also, too, as I learned it, I taught them like, listen, when I'm doing something, it's not because I don't want to be with you. I got to get this done. But then also, too, as I learned, I taught them, like, listen, when I'm doing something, it's not because I don't want to be with you.

I got to get this done. And then I'm coming. And let's go do what you got to do, kind of thing. How have you thought, as I think this is a common problem that really disciplined, driven, talented people have, how do you both expect and help your kid realize their potential without being way too hard on them? You know what I mean?

Like Marcus Realis says, it's a great line says tolerant with others strict with yourself. I think a lot of driven talented people struggle with that, with their kids. Yeah, so you know what's a lot to do with your mate? I think that could because when you have like husband, wife, whatever it is, the dynamic, one maybe soft, the other one maybe driven, whatever it is, right? So, there's a balance there. Yeah, so I see that when you're pushing this child's due explosively, now they're intentions, right? the child's due exploiting. Now they're intentions right there's the book My Little Soul talks about intentions also But I see that in intentions

Some people are living my carestory through their child. Yeah, and then some people like listen These are just life lessons. You don't really have to play, but you have to finish you have to go hard and you have to finish Right, so it's a very tricky, it's a very tricky thing. So I, you know, maybe in a single day or my son or my daughter comes over here to certain things that we have to do or whether it's reading or whether it's this or whether it's, you know, let's get our shots up or, you know, it's like I can show you certain things in after a while. You are who you are. So again, you're start to choose who you want to become.

Right? Yeah. And then my job over here is to put you in that world of who I think you want to become. Right? So I told my son, who's 12 years old, Sierra Keynes right down the street, and the Brian James son, both his sons,

Bryce and Brian, he placed, I'm like, yo, go look at the schedule because the head coach is like, I am like, look at the schedule, so we can go some games. Yeah. We're gonna train for basketball. We're gonna make two other shots

and then we're done today. And then the tutor's gonna come tomorrow. And like like I'm just letting you know this is because after a while right and this is the thing, kids love structure regardless if they fight it or not the older they get the more it feels like, yeah okay I learned this from mom and dad. I learned this from this mentor that I can do boom, boom, boom, boom, and boom. And then the result will be this. Mm-hmm.

If you don't have it at a very young age, life is like so chaotic, right? Like you just don't know how to calm the brain down. Right, so that's where the discipline is destiny. So you have to learn how to be disciplined at some point in time. Right? Like people are like, oh, well, that's a baby. It's like, well, the baby's going to be two.

They're going to be three and this is going to be four. So what do you want the baby to practice? You want to practice like being like a baby and wait today? The people said, oh, it's terrible, Two is where it's terrible. Two is because you didn't train them at one to do x, y and z. So then that's when two come threes and threes and come fours. Like, oh my god, it's just a terror. That was five because you were lazy and you didn't give them structure. Right. It's just like anything. If you tell somebody that have never worked out before, listen, we get in the gym every day, five days a week

this week and you got to change your diet. They're going to be so upset. They don't want to eat these foods. They want to be in a gym after the first couple of days. They can't move. That's the same thing a baby does. The human being is going to fight you with somethings new. But if you structure the, if you, if you give a structure and discipline after a while, it's like, they're going to see results and they're like, oh yeah, I'm gonna stick to this. This is what I'm gonna do. So.

I was reading about, and you probably know, but I was reading about Tim Hardaway Jr. and his father, Tim Senior, and that the struggle they had with each other, it sounds like, you know, again, to be driven and graded something, often you can be really hard on yourself, right? You have that voice inside you,

the one we're talking about with a co-beer, who, remember, that says like, man, if you don't hit 100 shots, like, you suck, right? Or if you don't do this, if you're not putting in the work, you're gonna fall off, they're gonna, that sort of voice of paranoia and ambition and drive that can make you really good at what you do, as long as it's an interior voice, the only

person you're hurting is yourself. The problem is, now all of a sudden there is a much younger, much more vulnerable person who looks at you as the most important person in the world, and now they're hearing that voice, and that can be devastating. No, it definitely can, but also too, you gotta put them in that experience, right? So if it's the room's not clean, or you play the game and you don't shoot well,

then you ask the very calm questions, did you work out this week? Did you make a shot every day? And then we unpack it from there. Because if you made $2.03 a shot today for the past week and you had a bad shooting day, that's okay. Because they're not going to show an example of Kobe or Ray Allen on this person who really are dedicated

to the gym. You're not going to take it from me even though I do it, but I'm gonna show you what they did. And then Kobe shot six for 25. Ray shot, you know, from three, three for 14. It's like, but they end the gym every single day. Yannis was four for 15 against the sixers, but he still works out every single day.

These days will happen, but they're gonna happen less if you do that than if you do this. So how you feel right now, I want you to feel that now, what do we do from that? Right? So it's just it's hard because they can't see the future and something you already seen. It's like, I want to be smart. Okay, you want to be smart, but you don't read no book, so you don't travel. Sorry, I don't know what's going to happen. But it's like you're going to be the voice

in your kid's head, right? And so that means you get to choose what that voice is going to sound like to them. And I think there's plenty of people that have the voice of their father or their mother or their grandfather or some teacher in their head. And it is not a nice voice. And it's not. No and it is not a nice voice. And it was.

No, it's not, man. This, I don't, you know, it's very hard to, because like I said before, right, where little kids grow in a body, it's playing adults. Yeah. A lot of people have failed themselves, not everybody else but themselves,

but they may have an extension of themselves, whether it's their children or whoever it is. And then they're trying to like, they mean to give the message in the most compositive way, but they're actually speaking to the younger self, but to another individual outside like, I told you to do this, that's what you wanted to talk to when you were younger, but you missed the moment. Right? So now you're reflecting and then you feel guilt from yourself and like failure from yourself. So then now you're speaking to them about this, right?

So I mean, it's a lot of that to me where those people when they speak out, because think about it, right? People say, Oh, when it's person this up to you, what, it's not personal, it's more so them. So when I'm yelling and I'm going crazy like that, right? Let's speak it in general. Yeah. They're really mad at themselves

because they see something that they don't work in the other person. Is this what I think? No, I think that's right. There's a line that I heard from Bruce Springsteen. I think it was on his Broadway show. He was saying that you can be an ancestor to your children or a ghost, which is it going to be? Are you this thing that guides them, that supports them, that inspires them, or are you going to be this thing that haunts and terrorizes them that's a curse? And I think as parents, but also as coaches or you know any role that we have in other people's lives, that's the question you got to ask.

Well, you know, am I being a ghost or an ancestor? What what legacy am I leaving to them? Is it a positive one or is it gonna be a a burn, a trauma that they're carrying with them? Right, and then you bring up a really good point. So for me, is I'm not trying to get it all at once. And I say this to all your listeners, my listeners, don't try to get it all at once. Like work on yourself as much as possible, but be aware, right? I can't play

in a, I can't, my mind can't be in the first quarter if I'm already in the third quarter. My mind has to be in the third quarter. And saying that, work on being your best person, reading, traveling, understanding, listening, I think that's a skill being able to listen is a skill being able to communicate the skill right and and and then listening comes with like you know shedding your ego, communicating comes with understanding your ego on your purpose right so it's we all have a lot of work to do so from you know do. So, for myself, Kutino, I try to fill myself with as much as I can on an everyday basis, not rushing it, but just where my children and the people that are surrounding me say, okay, I fight peace around this individual, right? And like, I'd rather be, like you said, the ancestor opposed to the ghosts. So when they're thinking about me years from now,

I'm like, wow, I feel really good about this individual. Well, and I think you make a good point there, which is this little thing, it's that they didn't hustle back on defense or they blew this math test or they didn't clean the room or whatever it is. Yeah, it matters. And it matters as a person who takes everything

that you do seriously. But the problem is, I think when you get in this trap where you make each individual thing more than it is, right? You're extrapolating out, hey, if you always do this, you're gonna end up very far from where I want you to be, where you want you to be, where you wanna be. But you're not talking about something they're doing always. You're talking about something they did one time.

They made a mistake. Just as you have to be able to have that dialogue with yourself, you're on this diet and you go crazy at a restaurant or whatever. You can't whip yourself like you're some piece of shit because you didn't do it once, you didn't do it always, you didn't once, right? And I think the ability to be kind to yourself, to be a friend or a parent or an ancestor,

whatever the word we wanna use, to be that, that's super key to being able to do this thing sustainably and not burning yourself or other people out in the process. So you brought up something you said being conscious of and always speak about that to people like love yourself, be conscious of, be patient with yourself. And because I love the basketball so much and I picked the ball up at 13 years old, I had a lot of catching up to them, right? So there's out of the Williams, there's Cole Williams, R to be sure. And the key is he chose all these guys that I'm now playing a sport that they started

when they were six or seven. So I want to be so good, so fast. And I had to understand it as a process to this. But at that time, I was very like, you know what I mean? Like I wanted to, I wanted it right now and I wanted to work out every day and I want to work four times a day just so I can get faster that those things. So I was very irritated. Yeah.

Then I got to college and I studied a lot more and just saw myself and I read a lot more and I really understood a lot more. But I was still that intense individual. Yes. Right. And it came from a really good place because like I said before, I'm not really, when I, you know, when I'm playing, I'm intense, right? I have different personalities.

So I'm intense when I'm playing, but at the older I got, I knew how to like separate it from everything else, right? So, and going through life, like I'll jump on my son, my 12 normal while I jump on my daughter, my 22, I'll jump on him, but then normal while I jump on my daughter or my 22 I'll jump on them but then also too is I got I helped them understand that you know why we did this why you did this and this is I'll show you examples of you know you know whatever you've done wrong or whatever it is right but but if if you didn't you know watch dishes or you didn't you got an effort you got a Dean's like listen that's okay There's there's a consequence to that now

Right like just what's going to have to do right? So I'm gonna ask you once or twice and then after that There's a consequence if you do this you can't play basketball if you do this can't do this you can't right you don't you know like it's dealing with children is harder than when it is an adult because children can't see the future of themselves, right? Because we all repeat so many different things. Right, there's going to be another Jason Williams, there's going to be another Mike Bibby, there's going to be another Chris Weber, there's gonna be another Mike Bibby, there's gonna be another Chris Weber, there's gonna be another Contino, there's gonna be another, but we can't see it, right? There's gonna be another LeBron James, there was Magic Johnson, there's gonna be another one that's better than that. What we be alive, I don't know, but it's gonna be another one that comes out.

So they don't know that and I guess the more I work on my patients and how to articulate and help them, I think it becomes a better playing field when they're out there in the world, right? So if we play balls together, really quick. The kids got a father sitting from San Francisco San Francisco, loved him to death as my brother's name is Johnny Nevello. Never played basketball. We played with his little kid but they know he's in his 40s, you know, 47, 48 years old, right? He same age as me. And we're playing directly, right? So we ever came actually on Wednesday. So we're playing directly and you know he doesn't practice basketball.

He doesn't play basketball. it's just a hustling, he plays soccer, he's a guy who plays every sport, but he doesn't play basketball at all. So and this is now it's kind of like the same thing with life. Because I'm so good at basketball, I can take four guys and make the game exciting, no

stress. Yeah. Right. I can put you in places. I can tell you what you're doing this. You can start to see the game better. It's the same thing, right? Because he was like, yo, listen, he said all the time. He's like, yo, you make the game so much easier, so much more fun when it's chaotic.

Yeah. And then when the situation doesn't happen where down're down three or up five or this, that, whatever, you make it better for me. And I think as parents, as leaders, as mentors, the better we practice ourselves, the better we can make the game better for everybody else in life. No, that's so beautifully said, right? Because at the end of the day, we don't actually control our kids. We have like control over them, but we don't control them.

And if you want your kid to be something, whether it's patient or ask for help or kind or generous or, you know, discipline or whatever it is, your best bet is almost always going to be just to work on that thing yourself. Wow. It demonstrated and try to help them get there as opposed to trying to force them to get there.

Because even if you succeed, it's not going to stay because it's not there authentically. It's there by force. Right, exactly. So that's what I learned, right? And I was going to be to my mom where she was young She was impatient and this stuff never so a lot of for me a lot of what I I kind of Tort myself and really understood what myself was okay, listen to become really good at that Free throws you gotta shoot them right to become really become a bullet disc when you're daughtering a son

or your other son is with it, you have to do this and you have to do that. I'm wondering, yeah, man, work on you. Just work on you and like, you know, just trust it. Trust it and you know, it all work out. It's beautiful, man. Well, look, I'm so glad we got connected and I love your stuff and this was really cool for me.

Thank you so much, man. I appreciate you. Thanks for listening to The Daily Stoke Podcast. Just a reminder, we've got signed copies of all my books in The Daily Stoke Store. You can get them personalized, you can get them sent to a friend. The app goes away. It goes, the enemy is still in this is the key. The leatherbound edition of the Daily Stoke. We have them all in the Daily Stoke Store, which you can check out at store.dailystoke.com. Hey, Prime Members!

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