The Daily Stoic - Josh Brolin on Embracing Life’s Messiness With Stoicism (PT. 1)

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

Josh Brolin joins Ryan to talk about the childhood trauma that shaped him, the cathartic process of writing his memoir, and how confronting his past became a form of personal healing. Josh also shares how Stoicism has profoundly influenced his outlook on life, helping him navigate adversity, build resilience, and embrace the messiness of life. Josh Brolin's breakout role was in The Goonies (1985), and after a hiatus from Hollywood, he made a powerful comeback in No Country for Old Men (2007). He received an Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actor for his portrayal of Dan White in the biopic Milk (2008). Brolin is also known for playing Thanos in the Avengers series, Cable in the Deadpool films, and Gurney Halleck in the Dune franchise.📚 You can grab a copy of From Under The Truck at The Painted Porch. 📱 Follow Josh on Instagram @JoshBrolin and on X @TheJoshBrolin🎙️ Follow The Daily Stoic Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast🎥 Watch top moments from The Daily Stoic Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dailystoicpodcast✉️ Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Get Stoic inspired books, medallions, and prints to remember these lessons at the Daily Stoic Store: https://store.dailystoic.com/📱 Follow us:  Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, and FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to the Daily Stoic early and ad free right now. Just join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Daily Stoic is based here in this little town outside Austin. When we have podcast guests come in and go, oh, what hotel should I stay at? Honestly, there's not really many great hotels out here, but there are a bunch of beautiful Airbnbs that you could stay in a ranch. You could stay on something overlooking the Colorado River. They've even got yurts in the woods out here. And Airbnb has a million different options, old historic houses.

Usually when I travel, I'm staying in an Airbnb. That is when I'm bringing my kids. We make a whole experience of it. And usually what I do is I pull up Airbnb, I look at guest favorites, I type in, okay, we want this many rooms, this many bathrooms, we want a pool, we want a washer and dryer, whatever it is, and you can find an awesome place to stay in.

And I've been doing it now, crazy me, at least 15 years I've been staying in Airbnbs, basically since it came out. I love Airbnb and you should check it out for your next trip. You just realized your business needed to hire someone like yesterday. With Indeed, there's no need to stress. You can find amazing candidates fast using sponsored jobs. With sponsored jobs your post jumps to the top of the

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and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well known and obscure, fascinating and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are, and also to find peace and wisdom in their lives. Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. You know, when Matthew McConaughey was here, we sort of do like a walk-through of the bookstore after and I pick out different books.

And he was up in my office and he mentioned actually today's guest, he mentioned Josh Brolin's book. He actually hears he and I talking about it. Brolin's book? New book? I have it in here. Because I'm supposed to interview him next week. Let me grab it.

He's awesome. Yeah. I just texted him because I was listening to some podcast and was telling some horrible story about his dad feeding him his, like, child with pigs or something. Oh. He, uh... He has something in that line that he talks about that's similar to what you were just saying, I think.

Where are the, where are the, oh, our surroundings were never there to be carried rather woven into the fabric freedom where we are. Yeah. Some of it is what you were saying, Link was saying there about going back. Yeah, this book is good.

And you know, it's funny that it would come up because I don't read a lot of celebrity memoirs because most of them are not very good, but I really liked these two books. I liked Matthews when it came out and I really liked Josh's. I've gotten to know Josh because he commented one time on something we posted on Instagram

and then we would go back and forth and he was gonna do the show in person or I was gonna go see him. I don't know, we sort of, I guess we'd say we'd become friends. We've gotten to know each other and I was really excited when this book came out. The audio book of the book is really great too.

We were talking offline about how when you record an audio book, it just reduces you to a mess. He said, for a guy who's known for cadence and public speaking, I could have sworn that something broke. He said it was beyond embarrassing and he wrote it. Which is totally true. I mean, I've recorded 12 audio books. I've recorded multiple audio books in the Daily Stoke Studio.

And every time as I leave, I'm like, do I know how to read? Am I an idiot? Did I get kicked in the head? But it's just something about the over and over and over again of it and pronouncing words that you've never, it's an excruciating process. I'm sure not unlike moviemaking

where the final product might be enjoyable and seamless and immersive, but making it is anything but, making it is utterly excruciating, but it's worth it. It's worth it. The audio book's great. He read it, which not all celebrities do, but definitely makes this one worth listening to.

You've probably seen Josh in the Goonies. You've seen him in No Country for Old Men. You've seen him in Milk. You've seen him in the Deadpool movies. You've seen him in Dune. And now you should read his new book from Under the Truck, which came out in November. And he talks about his tumultuous childhood.

He talks about the death of his mom. He talks about addiction and love and fatherhood. Well, in this episode, he talks about how to manage stress, how stoicism and literature and reading has had an impact on his life. You can tell from the book, this guy is a reader,

how you accept life's messiness and the transformative power of parenting? I was really excited to have this conversation. I hope we will have another one in person soon. And I think you are going to like it. Here is me and Josh Brolin talking about his book from under the truck.

You can grab copies at The Painted Ports. You can follow him on Instagram, at Josh Brolin and on Twitter at The Josh Brolin. Let's just get into it. ["The Josh Brolin"] Dude, here we are. Dude, here we are. Oh my God.

You create these relationships which I'm super bad at because I just had a little freak out this morning and then I had to read The Daily Dad in order to calm the fuck down. But, you know, there's no time. When you have kids, how old are your kids? Eight and five. Okay, so eight and five.

So mine, my little ones are six and three. And there's just no time to do any. Yeah, I know. You just, it's tough. And if you're a parent who actually enjoys being a parent and likes being a parent and lives this idea that he can be present all the time, it really fucks with the rest of your life.

No, there's not as much time to just like hang out present all the time, it really fucks with the rest of your life. No, there's not as much time to just like hang out and do shit because you're already spoken for. You're literally already spoken for in these things that like, you know, there was the Golden Globe nominations and I'm getting all these texts this morning and Zoe and Timothy and Sebastian Stan, my buddy and Zoe Saldana and all that. And I'm like, wow, that's so great. I haven't seen shit because when the kids finally go to sleep,

if we don't pass out with them, which we normally do, my wife and I say, OK, this is our time. We get to actually do something together and we sit on the couch and we turn on a movie and we go to sleep within 10 or 15 seconds. We wake up at one thirty in the morning on the couch, totally discombobulated, not sure what to do anyway. No, no, it's very humbling. I was thinking about that the other night. I was in my son's room, putting him to bed.

And yeah, I got an email about I did this book for this guy, George Raveling, who's like one of my heroes. Anyways, I'm sitting there putting my son to bed and I get an email that Michael Jordan agreed to write the foreword to this book. And then my son's like, I have to go to the bathroom. You know, like just the contrast of like struggling

to put this eight-year-old to bed and this like huge career win. There's something about it that I think keeps you sane. I don't know if this was all I did, if work was all I did. I think you'd lose your mind. There's something good about it. It's a recalibration again and again and again into this laceration of ego.

And it's good, what is it, the ninth today? Literally I opened it up, I came in here and instead of figuring out how to do this Zoom with you, I read this and it has to do, it's December 9th. Right, which is something that I talk about often, about being on your deathbed. Parents think about a lot of things, I won't read the whole thing, but they think

about the world they're leaving to their sons and daughters and that you question, the question for you to think about today on a day, hopefully quite far from that moment is what decisions are you making now and how will you think about them then? So I always often say my goal in life is to be able to be on my deathbed, be somewhat conscious and right as I'm taking my last breath, that I chuckle, that I'm able to look back on all this and to say, not only did I have fun, I had integrity, I played with the circus that is,

and that I was malleable within it, and that I ended up having, you know, like we're all the better for it. Yes. This morning that wasn't happening. So I needed this redirection that you give me often, by the way, I know this is not, but I want to make this podcast about you, even though it's your podcast.

I'm serious, man. You and I, we don't know each other well, but we text each other, you know, fairly often, and it's fairly familiar. But there is something about for somebody who's read, and let me just get through this, that somebody who's read Marcus Aurelius a long time ago, and the reason why you read it, unlike you, the reason why I read it is because I want to know that I've read it, as opposed to the content. Do you know what I mean?

So and I think that that's the young me who's like, OK, I read this. I read that. I read that. I read that. I'm in the know. I'm in the know. I'm in the know. And then there's the practical application of of utilizing this stuff and that you've made so accessible and digestible that not only have I sent your frigging book to about 200 people, and I don't do that.

I'm not a namaste kind of guy. Do you know what I mean? It's like, oh, I have another book for you to read to make your life better, even though it doesn't work. And then I'll end up giving you another one in two months, and then I'll give you another one in two months. And then, you know, that's why the bookstore is 75% self-help now when it used to be is about as big as the poetry section.

But I do believe that these are so helpful. They're incredibly helpful in your life because it parallels with maybe because it's an idea that I have of, you know what? This is super messy, often painful. Really overwhelming at times. And that's the way it should be, because that's what develops character. And you fall and you get up and you try again. And it's progress, not perfection. And but you keep going no matter no matter what your ego

is telling you you shouldn't be doing and you should be resting in comfort and you should look you know you should sleep in every day and you should let the nanny take over and do all that so I salute you for that man you make my life better you make our lives better. Oh man that's incredible. No, I can tell you're a reader. It's interesting, right? Most people don't read. And then there are some people that read,

but then you can tell they kind of only read self-help. And I have no problem with that, but you're right. There is kind of been a creep where self-help and sort of non-fiction is taken over more and more in the bookstore. But I could tell from your book and from talking with you that you're clearly someone who loves the written word. I could see in your book that you

were trying to write a real book, not either a memoir or a gossipy thing or even just your own experiences. It seemed like books had been a big part of your life for a long time. Books not only have books been a major part of my life and my mother and my dad is not a reader for sure. My mother was a reader but of all, you know, she would wake me up at 2.30 in the morning and say, you know, Ted Bundy just did this awful thing to this woman.

You have to come up here because I'm scared. You know, she'd read these horrible true crime books and she read really fast. She remembered everything. What she retained was a hundred percent, but she wasn't reading any great literature. And I think it was because of my friend Anthony Zerbe, it was because I got turned on to maybe on the road when I was like 18 by a buddy and read that. And what I think is interesting, and I'll finish that thought, but what I think is interesting about reading on the road

is you're so taken by that movement, the movement of that book and the verbiage of that book and in all that. But, you know, you get into this carawack idea of first thought, best thought, no edit and all this kind of stuff. And then like most things later, when you when you become an adult, you find out... Complete bullshit. Total fucking bullshit, absolute horseshit that he spent seven years editing that book

after doing his first book, which didn't sell at all, which was kind of a typical formal 400 page book. And that his editor just kept pushing him to refine, to refine, to refine, to refine. And I think the process of writing this book and caring about writing, I think the biggest lesson was when I started to edit and really clarify and what am I trying to say here and what am I trying to say here? And what am I trying to convey here? And that was, it was one of the great lessons for me. And one of, I talk about ego laceration.

I mean, just like, okay, I know and I have to be honest with myself that I'm colorizing just to colorize because I think it may, you know, it may stand in for just a bad sentence. So I'm going to distract people out of this bad sentence with more colorful bullshit. On January 5th, 2024, an Alaska Airlines door plug tore away mid-flight, leaving a gaping hole in the side of a plane that carried 171 passengers.

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Just the cognitive dissonance of I spent time putting this together. I can't just delete it. But you have to. Like I have to cut 20,000 words out of the book that I'm doing right now. of I spent time putting this together, I can't just delete it. But you have to. Like I have to cut 20,000 words out of the book that I'm doing right now. And it's fucking agonizing. Like I usually wake up excited to go to my office to write

because creativity is generative. To wake up and be like, no, no, no, today is about deletion. It sucks. I fucking, I'm so mad about it. And 40,000 words is a lot. This book. This is the the UK version. But this book is it was I think I said there was only two people I sent it to.

It was Zev Boro while I was writing it. Zev Boro and Ethan Cohen. And I knew that they were both people that were going to be honest with me. They weren't going to stroke me. And it was probably I sent the book and it was probably around 95,000 words. So it's 400 and something pages at that point. And Ethan goes, fuck, you want me to read this? Which I thought was great.

And then and then he had some amazing notes. I mean, he really raked me over the coals. And it was part of the reason why I had a lot more poetry in there. And he said, they're going to kill you for the poetry. Not that the poetry is bad. The poetry is actually very good, but they're going to kill you for the poetry. And it's little things like that where I go, OK. And once you start deleting, there's something really satisfying about it, you know, where you realize that you want the book to be this thick because you think or at least the adolescent part of you thinks

that you're more that it validates you as a writer more. Yeah, there's something that there's more discipline in a sparse book than in a long book. And one of the tricky things that happens is as you become successful in any domain, is that both the audience and the gatekeepers who are allowing you to do the thing, they become more indulgent of you. So you get away with more and you have to have this kind of inner discipline to go,

like I'm sure they would have published an 80 or 90,000 word book from you. They would have published whatever you wanted. But you have to, you had to say, I'm not going to let myself get away with that, which is a different struggle. And also, you know, you're writing, sorry, at least I knew I was writing something that was, I mean, for lack of a better word, unconventional in that I wasn't spoon feeding kind of celebrity fodder. Yes, I totally know what you mean. Because I just, Matthew was just out at the bookstore, Matthew McConaughey, and I feel like your two books are interesting.

They're sort of two unique books of a similar, where you have a creative sort of artist who's sitting down. They could write a celebrity tell-all memoir. They could also just write a very indulgent sort of personal introspective book. Both are somewhat different takes on the genre, which I found to be refreshing. Good. Refreshing in what way? I'm curious. Well just not what you would expect. And you know, what I was thinking about when I was

thinking about both your books is that you both had very unconventional strange childhoods, but he seemed to have emerged relatively untraumatized by his and yours really fucked you up. Matthew didn't have any wild animals at home. That's true. Matthew had wild humans. He had wild humans. His parents were wild. His parents were wild.

I think that's what really, you know, I sent the book when you're looking for a blurb or whatever and I don't know Matthew well, but I know him well enough and I really respect him and I loved his book. And you know, the thing is, is I judged Matthew's book long before I read it, which I'm sure people do with this. I do that all the time. And then I started to read it and I went, holy shit, the honesty. And I was really taken with the honesty.

There's another memoir out there and I'll go back to Matthew, but the Ursa Daily Ward wrote a memoir called The Terrible. And I met her. I read the book and then I met her and then we cast her. She's an actress also and a cast her in Outer Range and directed her. I read the book and then I met her and then we cast her. She's an actress also and I cast her in Outer Range and directed her in one of these Outer Range episodes. It's so nakedly honest. And I think that's when I read that, I was like, okay, I wonder if I could do that. I think that was really what sparked. I wonder if I could write a super honest memoir of sorts,

but really like our memories work in vignettes and paintings and anecdotes and all that kind of stuff. So therefore you don't have the kind of linear timeline. But so I was thinking about blurbs and once I wrote this and I was feeling really naked, I hadn't sent it to anybody. I did send it to Bob Dylan knowing that there was no way in hell that Bob would ever give anything, but I did it anyway, fuck it. And then I sent it to Matthew and Matthew wrote back, I think you and I talked about this, he wrote,

he literally went through slowly word for word. And he had incredible notes, not that I asked for the notes, but I thought, well, how fucking arrogant that he's writing notes. And at the same time, I'm reading them and it wasn't just you should fix this. You should do this. I'm a writer now. I'm a bestselling author. It was it was it was from the care.

It was like I get you as a human being. I felt this entire book and I want this to be as good as it can possibly be. And if I can help you just with that, if you use anything now. And he also wrote a lot of like, I love this and I loved this and I love this. And I thought it was one of the best blurbs I've ever read in my life. It was a well-written blurb and it felt like a visceral blurb. Why, I'll send you a video, but I have a video of him reading it out loud.

Oh really? In the office. No way. So I'll send it to you. But no, he did the same thing. You held up the Daily Dad earlier. I blurb greenlights and I said, hey, can I call him this favor?

I have this parenting book coming out. Can I send it to you? It's like one page of parenting advice every day. And he's like, yeah, send it to me, I'll see if I can read it. I wasn't expecting anything, I thought he would say no. And then he's like, hey, I just get a call from him one day. And he's like, hey, are you ready?

I've got notes. And I was like, oh, great. We spent like two hours on the phone, an hour on the phone. He gave me like page by page notes on this thing, which I again, wasn't expecting, was incredibly grateful to get. You know, you're expecting like a line. You're like, I want you to just say like,

please read this book. And instead he gave me this blurb and all these notes. But I think that that is the wonderful thing about books when you, it's a small community of people that read books and it's a small community of people that really love books. And when you tap into that, there's something I think very special about it. Yeah, I do, too.

I do, too. And when somebody actually cares and somebody's into it, they almost feel emotionally invested in it, which I love. Yeah, I just gotten a I'll read this to you if you just bear with me for a second. You know, what's been great about this book and where I think it, I'll tell you, is, oh, there it is. Let's see. They make us fill out actual paper. Once AI takes over, all the inefficiency will be gone. So I want to celebrate the mess while I still have it.

The last vestiges of humanity will be a customs officer with a rubber stamp and a humid port somewhere in the world. Your book too is a celebration of that fantastic, thrilling, painful soup some of us seem to swim in. On that note, I'm going to hoist anchor and head south, but I'll be thinking about your book for a long time to come." And I like that he says it does it. Who is that? This is the guy named Joshua Davis, and he's a writer.

And I felt like a lot of the responses to the book have been really emotional, really personal. And unlike most books, you know, you have your first week where it does really well, and then the second week drops and the third week drops. We're getting like the first week was good, the second week went down a little bit and now we're getting word of mouth and it's starting to grow again. And people are, you know, because I think the people that expected, you know, a typical like, I did Graham Norton with Cher and we talked about the book and there's this thing about ghost

writing and people who actually write their books and all this kind of stuff. And with Cher, you want to know, you know, what what happened in those nine days with with, you know, Greg Allman? I want to know. And I get it. Of course, I do get it, you know, and there's certain there's a certain bit of information within, you know, this legendary icon that you want. With this book, it was a little bit different.

It was seeing through to me. It's you know, a story about parents and children and it is about trauma and it's about surviving trauma and it's about finally growing up and having, you know, having to grow up and look at yourself in the face and say, what choices do I want to make? And how can I not? How can I get out of blame? I don't want to live a life of blame. They did this to me.

This is how I was raised. This is the nurture of it all. So therefore I don't have any control of it. And this is just who I am because of what they did to me. And I see it in a way that's very, that's non-victimized and positive. But I remember when I was reading Matthew's book, there was a moment where I was like, this was remember when I was reading Matthew's book, there was a moment where I

was like, this was long before I was thinking about having read Matthew's book when I was writing and I go, I had finished maybe 40,000 words of chapter one and at the beginning of chapter two, without telling anybody, I said, you know, I have to write something more inspiring. You know, I have to give people a place to go. I have to have to leave them with a daily dad or green lights or, you know, something instead of just, you know, police lights. And I wrote 50,000 words with and I didn't I just it was just a hint of something.

And my Kimberly Witherspoon in New York with Inkwell Management, my lead agent, she read it, she read that draft and she said, Chapter one is really good, really well written. I don't think there's a lot you have to change there. It flows well, blah, blah. And then she goes, what the fuck happened with Chapter two? And I tell you right now, like emotionally, I felt so seen. And a lot of times when you feel that exposed and seen, you just want to run.

And I part of me did want to run. But I go, What do you mean? And she goes, I don't know, it just doesn't sound like you. What happened? And then I told her so she she she actually like as a great editor, even though she's not an editor, she called me out and she goes, I have a sense of who you are as a writer. Do your writing.

Yeah, don't write for an audience trying to say what you thought people wanted you to say, as opposed to what you felt compelled. And I would I'm guilty of that. I'm guilty of that. And it's just another great lesson of like, look, all you can do is do what you do and put it out there and it's going to be received however it's going to be received. Totally. I feel like whenever I am performing for the audience, I'm doing shitty work and whenever I am following what I find to be interesting or important or

urgent, that's my best stuff. I'm actually writing about Elon Musk now a bunch in this book that I'm doing, as I find him fascinating and terrifying. I found this line from his first wife, and she was saying, inside the man, there's a small wounded boy standing in front of his father. And and I was like, well, I mean, that explains a lot, right?

Because his dad was a monster. I is a monster. But that's also explains a lot of us. Right. And I felt that sort of coming through in your story that you were this this kind of scared kid trying to figure it out. And that scared kid lived a long time. Like that scared kid made it maybe up through middle age. And I remember when my dad said to me, and he meant it professionally,

he said, I remember when you went to war. And if you contrast my brother and I, and my brother and I talk all the time and we're, you know, we're close and, and, but the truth of the matter is my brother lives the most simple life you can live. He couldn't simplify it more. He knows when he's going to go to work, walks there, then he goes to the coffee shop and he goes to the sandwich shop after that and he comes home and then he watches whatever he watches.

And then I think what my dad meant by that of like you fought you you were you were not going to be subservient to the trauma you weren't gonna allow yourself to fold and and I think it's interesting that you bring up my dad because you know I know that there's there's a lack of stories with my dad and that and it's not meant to hurt it's not meant to you know it's honestly laid out in a way of like okay so where were you were you there it's a statement in a book by omission is how I read it exactly and it's not about like did you you we had this crazy mother that was so full of high octane gasoline

for whatever reason, who had wild animals around, who, you know, created this narrative that was that was that most people, I think all people couldn't sustain. So even great friends of my mom would just say, pull the fucking car over. I'm out. There's a story that's true. Joyce, who got out of the car 50 miles from anything and was willing to walk, then, you know, sit for another minute with my mother in that car,

which I understand, which anybody who knew her understood the other side of it. She was so much fun. She was so much fun. She was so adventurous She just had this energy that that you know, she wanted to be in the nucleus of the circus all the time But when you have somebody who's living in fear of that person who's supposed to be the paternal force of that family You can't help but become the surrogate father You are suddenly, you know, the husband. And my dad, you know, he talks about it.

He doesn't, you know, I'm not saying anything that he wouldn't say, but he, he says, I remember your mom being in the driver's seat, you being in the passenger seat, you guys arguing, and he was in the back with his hands over his ears. So you go it's not a great thing to say, but the truth of the matter is, is that you took the child role and I took the husband role because I was there was something innate in me and I see it my youngest daughter that was just willing to go outside when it's freezing cold with bare feet on and just she has that thing. I saw my daughter, my youngest daughter, Chapel do that yesterday.

And I was like, damn, you just that's innate in you. You can't create that. Whereas my six year old is like, it's cold and I know. I know what you're saying. Yeah. Where are my high heels? And, you know, I think that there's something about that father thing. And my dad's not a monster. He's one of the nicest guys. I just think that he was he was controlled by a fear that he was unwilling to confront. It struck me that the work of the book and the

and the journey of your story was to kind of reparent that inner child to sort of calm things down, to develop a sort of a more stable and calm and nurturing environment, one that you didn't have growing up. But that is a difficult work and it's expensive work. It's painful work. And what I was struck by, as I've been studying Musk, is like, he just hasn't done that work at all. He's just like more stuff, more craziness, more attention, more money,

and then you can watch the sort of cyclical effects of that trauma. But what I read your book was, you had this sort of disorienting, overwhelming, confusing, traumatic childhood, and then that rippled out into your life, and you have slowly, steadily been trying to make sense of it. I even felt like the structure of the book

was illustrative of that, and that you're jumping around. You're like 1972, 2006, the dates are all jumbled, but as you go through the book, as you get older, as your life starts to coalesce, it kind of jumps around less and the threads start to come together and you've kind of made sense of it. Yeah, and Elon, you know, there's also another element of Elon Musk is motivated, maybe motivated by that trauma,

whatever that trauma is. So you start to rely on that trauma being your fuel. You know what I mean? Trump, doesn't he have the same thing? And that whole, you know, a dad who just didn't accept him the way he was, it doesn't, didn't W have the same thing where the dad, it was supposed to be Jeb, and he was the golden child, and W was the misfit,

and was the one that just wouldn't live up to a standard that they expected of him and all that which I don't have that that's a that's a very different thing so maybe that's why I'm more contemplative about it yeah you know but my dad wasn't somebody who but he did do that you know there was a, I tell a story, I try, I try, again, I don't wanna throw my dad under the bus because I love my pop. But whether it's a generational thing or not, I remember I went to my dad once and I said,

hey man, I'd love to get a recorder because my mom died early and I wish I had done this with my mom. I wasn't suggesting that my dad was gonna die anytime soon, which I didn't wanna, you know, convey. But I said, I would love to get together with you and just like with a recorder and and just talk to you and ask you stuff about you growing up in Newport and moving to, you know, Westwood.

And what was it like? What was your dad like? What was your mom like? Did you spend any time with your grandparents, whatever it was? And he got really defensive. He was like, for what? It's like and I wasn't writing the book at the time. And I said, I just because I want the information, because I love to know, like, how you think and, you know, what made you do certain things? What was the car club like that you were involved, you know, shot?

Why did you become an actor being such a shy person? What was that confrontation like? And, and all that. And he was really, really reticent. Whereas if I asked my mom, my mom would have it would have been forever. You know, just back and back and back and back and back forever. Again, it's a different mentality. And it's and it's like, so did that motivate me to want to be more?

And I'm sure it did want to be more intimate with my kids, to listen to my kids in a different way. So I can never look back on that and say, oh, I got fucked because, you know, because it created something and not that I don't. And I said that to Howard Stern, not that I don't indict it. There's things that I do indict. There's things that I think are so narcissistically not okay, you know, and it's like, is this about you or is this about celebrating a child? You go, you couldn't help it, but make it about you. But I think that, you know, a lot of

a lot of what motivates me now having four, is how do you celebrate those children knowing that it's all going to be messy? It's all super messy and it's OK that it's messy. And a lot of these self-help books that I read, you know, say, hey, look, there's a problem. Find the solution. Live in the solution. And I go, what the fuck? You get what about all the stuff that happens in between? What about all the messiness? And I think bringing it back around to you, which is why I love all the stuff that you've written, truly all the stuff

that you've written is it reminds you again and again, how messy all of this is. is. Parenting can bring up many unexpected challenges. And there's so much advice out there, it can be hard to know where to find real help. I'm Janet Lansbury, host of Unruffled, a podcast with answers to the questions that arise when raising children. I've worked with children and parents for over 25 years, and I'm eager to share all that I've learned with you and, most of all, encourage you to trust yourself.

In each episode I address listeners' questions through the lens of my respectful parenting approach. From advice for how to address toddler meltdowns, encourage them to develop their skills naturally and joyfully through self-directed play, for helping when our kids are scared, and so much more. I aim to offer you thoughtful advice that will shift your perspective on challenging topics, making them far less intimidating and overwhelming, and free you of the need for scripts and tricks.

We can do this. Follow Unruffled on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Unruffled ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Listen to Unruffled ad free right now on Wondery Plus. There's this concept in stoicism that I don't think is super popular and I struggle with it, which is this idea of acceptance. Because people go, well, I didn't get where I am by accepting things. But when I think about my own childhood and my struggles with it and why I still have anger

about some things today and where it causes me problems is all the areas where I'm still stuck in a place where I'm like, it shouldn't have been that way. It's unfair that it's that way. Why did it go this way? Like if I can get to a place where I'm like, it is what it is, it shouldn't have been this way, but it was. And now I have to deal with the reality of what it was.

Then I'm moving forward. But the problem is when I'm still stuck in the unfairness or in the in the wishing it was otherwise ness of the situation. Yeah, no, that's exactly right. And by the way, that's an AA thing. It's an AA thing of acceptance and, you know, accepting it, but not shutting the door on it. Look, it existed. It might not have been great, but it's already happened.

What are you going to do about it? And if all the energy goes into why couldn't it have been different? I always talked to a guy last night. He was like, I'm not going to tell you who it is. But he was like, I'm not gonna tell you who it is. But he was like, I have this burning when I pee. I was like, okay, what are we gonna do about it? And he was like, but he was stuck in the why me.

And I was like, I'm gonna go down a litany of things just to tell you the stuff that I've dealt with in the last two years. And you can't live in why me you're like this exists. You know what I mean? There was another guy who wrote me last night was with his best friend who has stage four cancer. He's going, he's not going to make it. And he went down this list because I do a gratitude list with a bunch of different guys. And and guys and I've always loved the idea of having to be responsible to somebody else for a list as opposed to just keeping

it in house and he went and he said just like it's all they were talking about on his deathbed. Crying laughing doing all that is all the shit that doesn't matter and how obvious it it is when you're on your deathbed, truly on your deathbed, knowing that you're leaving a three year old behind, which this guy was doing. I mean, it doesn't get clearer than that. It doesn't get more real than that. And it sounds so morbid. But the truth of the matter is, is that's when you go, yeah, I accept my life. But what if I look around now, what do I have that there is to celebrate? Not in a denial,

not in a delusion. But what do I have? Oh, you and I are doing a podcast right now. I can't get the thing. And it's not Chrome is not letting me do the thing. Well, let's just not fucking do this. And I go, listen, man, I'm so excited about talking to you about things that actually matter to me. And you're talking about kids and you're talking about how to live your life. And you're talking about how to embrace your life with what you have, how to celebrate what you have.

It's all good shit. Yeah, I imagine as you tell the story in the book about getting stabbed, as you were bleeding out in Costa Rica, you weren't like, here are the things I'm mad at my dad about. That's not popping into your head. That's not. No, all that's and to me, the greatest part of that story is when I call the mother of my older kids, Debbie, and I said, listen, this is what's happened. I was in the ambulance, you know, and I said, this is what's happened. Can you do this? She goes, I know what to do, you're gonna be fine. And there

was something super calm about it. And she had gone through enough chaos with me to say, this isn't the worst of it, brother. Like, it's all good. You know, I totally I totally relate to that too, because there is this kind of, you know, women are more emotional. There's all these stereotypes, but my, my wife is way more stoic than I am. I have to actively practice this stuff. She's the one that is intuitively and naturally stoked.

She, she jokes. One of us is a stoic and the other writes about stoicism, but like the reason I'm writing about it and working on it is cause I'm terrible at it. Right. And sometimes you need that person who's just like, this is be fine. Just it's alright. Yeah, that's what it is It's like why are you writing this somebody has somebody read somebody said I don't know where I read it somewhere I've read I've read a thousand books and this is the worst book I've ever My life it's like that's so I see it as a positive I go it's being it's being reacted to in such an extreme way.

And that's a good thing. That's not a bad thing. But would you have rather me not written this book? Fuck you. No, it's like it's like Dumb and Dumber. You're like, so you're telling me you read it. You did read it. Right. You know, and I am I'm working through which I think I've worked through not worked through accepted It's not working through. I don't think you work through stuff. I've done a ton of therapy in my life

I was telling somebody that I was working in a place a story that's in the book Place in Lower State Street in Santa Barbara called Rocky Galenny's which was like a you know mediocre Restaurant it was a lot of fun, one of the greatest bars in the whole town. But I was working in there and I was using that money and I was seeing a therapist. And not all the money, but I went and saw a therapist a couple of times because I had this softball in my gut

and I didn't know what it was. And I didn't tell anybody I was doing it. I found a therapist. And I was, you know, another story probably should have written in the book halfway through the therapy session. I looked over and the guy was like this. He was asleep. I was like, I go, dude.

And he goes, and he defended himself. And I think I was 14 at the time or something. And he said, look, I'm still listening to you, but I work all day and I have kids at night and I'm closing my eyes. I'm basically resting my eyes. Anyway, again, all these things that you could take as ruinous to your life.

I now for several reasons, except is just part of this wacky, absurd circus that is pretty fun most of the time. I've never put a therapist to sleep, but I remember one time I was talking to a therapist and I was sort of going on, you know, about my childhood or my parents and she finally goes, I don't know what to tell you, this is what you got this go around. She's like, you didn't get what you were supposed to get,

I don't know what to tell you. And it was so helpful because yeah, it's like what I'm coming in here and talking about is how I wish that it had gone differently. Like I'm trying to argue it into of happening differently and that can't happen. And so what acceptance allows you to do acceptance doesn't say that it's okay. Acceptance allows you to move on. Like it happened. They dropped the bomb. Should they have made a different decision? Yes or no. We could talk about it all day, but they did do it.

So what happens next? It's all about what happens next. What are you gonna do about it? How do you rebuild? How do you rebuild? If you find it catastrophic, how do you rebuild? And yeah, yeah, I agree. I watched your thing on Graham Norton with Cher,

I thought it was hilarious. And it made me think there's this story that I love in Seneca. With Seneca, he grows up in this province of the Roman Empire, he grows up on this estate, he ends up in Rome, he comes back later in life. And this sort of childhood home that he grows up with is in a state of disrepair.

These trees are dying, there's this old man, and he walks up to the old man and he's sort of upset with him for not taking care of the place, and he's sort of berating this person. And then he realizes that the old man is a kid he grew up with. And I'm referring here to the story

of Cher confusing you for your father. He realizes that the old man is someone he grew up with, that he was a kid when he was a kid. And then he realizes that all the trees that are dying were planted when he was a kid. And that's when he realizes like, oh, I'm an old man. I'm looking in the mirror. And there's this kind of memento mori of like we think that time is

Moving for everyone else and then it's staying still for us But that's where emotionally where we're at So he goes back to that childhood home and he's emotionally the age that he was when he left it and You go and how much did you evolve out of that age? And that's one of those great I mean, it's a great fable or where you question yourself of how much have I accepted an entire life trajectory?

When she looked at me, and I know there's that other thing too that you're talking about when she looked at me and the kind of like, it's so great to see you again. Look, and I was like, I don't know you though. I don't, I don't. And I just kind of went with it, which I normally don't. I'm normally, if I don't recognize somebody or if I don't know somebody and they go, hey, how are you?

And I go, I don't remember where did we meet or I try to be honest about it. But it's Cher. So you're like, okay, I'm going to run with this. But more than that, we had, we had such a ball, we had such a great banter. And she's talking about me being her boyfriend. And I said, look, it's not over yet. You never know what can happen. And whatever it is, this 78 year old woman who was so,

what I got from her is this mischievous and playfulness with it all that that I really adored. Again, just another great example of somebody who has taken a life that's been all over the place, you know, and had major trauma in it and major moments of having to accept something that's out of her control, that she could have pretended that she could control and didn't. And what came out of it was this woman, this 70 year old, eight year old woman who was so attractive to me in every way. I mean, literally, I mean, she she looks great. But it was this this vivaciousness that, you know, it was, you know, Kira was great there and Michael was great there. But it was all

about me and share. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it and I'll see you next episode. If you like The Daily Stoic and thanks for listening, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. And before you go, would you tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey on Wondery.com slash survey.