The Daily Stoic - Lamb of God’s Randy Blythe on Conquering Inner Demons and Memento Mori (PT. 1)

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

Randy Blythe, lead singer of Lamb of God, joins Ryan to talk about the role ego plays as a successful frontman, conquering fears, and the intersections between Stoicism and heavy metal in his life.In his new book, Just Beyond the Light, Randy shares his approach to life, talks about what he’s learned touring the world as the vocalist of a successful heavy metal band, and of the very real ways he is doing what he can to leave the world a better place.Follow Randy on Instagram and X @DRandallBlythe and check out his Substack📚 Pick up signed copies of Just Beyond the Light at The Painted Porch: https://www.thepaintedporch.com/🎙️Listen to Randy Blythe’s first interview on The Daily Stoic Podcast on Apple Podcast and Spotify  🎥 Watch Randy Blythe’s first interview on The Daily Stoic Podcast here 🎙️ Follow The Daily Stoic Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast🎥 Watch top moments from The Daily Stoic Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dailystoicpodcast✉️ Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Get Stoic inspired books, medallions, and prints to remember these lessons at the Daily Stoic Store: https://store.dailystoic.com/📱 Follow us:  Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, and FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well known and obscure, fascinating and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are, and also to find peace and wisdom in their lives. Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. I had a wonderful experience this morning. I went and swam down at Barton Springs, dropped my son off from school, went swimming, was

pouring rain. There was a couple people in the water when I got there, but by the time I got out, I was the only one in Barton Springs. Like just what I think has always been one of the wonders of the earth, one of the greatest swimming pools in the world. And I had it totally to myself.

I swam about a mile and then I got this new big overcoat, the ones that swimmers wear on the side of the pool, like in the Olympics or football teams wear when they're playing in Buffalo or Philadelphia or whatever in the winter, bundled up in one of those, went back to my car, drove here, did my writing, and then recorded a podcast episode. The only visible effects from the swim

was I eventually did warm up was that I got these like raccoon eyes, like I got these imprints. So if you watch the video of today's episode, you may you may notice that I try to put a little Vaseline on there and then lotion after but it just sticks. I need to do the math and see exactly how long it takes before it expires. But you'll see that in today's interview, but it was a lovely experience and it ties into today's guest. Randy Blythe is the lead singer of the heavy metal band Lamb of God.

He has this new book called Just Beyond the Light. And it struck me as I was swimming, the sun sort of coming up, kind of right over the side of the trees and the pool. And I don't know, it's just poetic and beautiful. And it just reminded me of, you know, why we make art is to capture and communicate experiences like that. Sometimes, you know, dark moments,

that's Randy's first book, Dark Days, but his new book is a little bit more hopeful and inspiring. I think it is largely inspired by his interest and study of Stoicism, which he has talked to me about before he was on the podcast back in 2021, when the world felt like it was falling apart and we were in the middle of some dark days. And we talked about how he was handling fear and guilt

and sadness all at the same time. Here, let me play you a chunk of that. What is spending time in a Czech prison teach you about this stuff? How have you found that these ideas or any of the things that you've learned stood up to the laboratory that you found yourself trapped in for I don't even remember exactly how long, but how did it stand up? First of all, can I mention how I found out about stoicism?

Of course, yeah. So it's not a secret that I'm an alcoholic. I happen to be one who's been sober for 11 years now, but yeah, I drank and drugged and partied like musicians do. I gave it a Herculine effort for 22 years. You did your best. I did my best. I gave it the old college dropout try, right?

And it just didn't work out for me in the end. I was just miserable and I wanted to die. But towards the end of my drinking, I was looking for some sort of answer other than the one that was obviously staring me in the face like, hey, you're an alcoholic, you gotta stop. I went to go see a shrink, this counselor,

his name is Ted, I wish I could remember his last name because I think I still owe him money from our last session. But I was going to him and I was still drinking at the time and I was complaining a lot about problems I was having in my relationship, in my work, and all of this is stemming from my alcoholism but he's he's being cool and he's trying to kind of deal with me without directly saying you got to get sober dude you know because I was kind of beating around the bush with him he's like do you know who Epictetus is

and I'm like no he's like he is a philosopher of the school stoicism you know he was a slave and he wrote this book called the interredian or the or the manual. And I forget which translation he had. It's why it's a newer one by a woman. Sharon LeBell, I had her on the podcast. Yes. Yes. The art of living. Yes, that that's the one. Yeah. So yeah, it's on my shelf over there. So I bought it. And I was reading it. And it was making sense. But because I was still deep within the throes of my alcoholism,

I could not internalize and really apply the lessons there. But the seed was planted, you know? And then a few years later, when I got sober, I picked Epictetus back up, you know? So that was probably pretty early into my first year of sobriety. And when I got arrested, I was about a year and a half sober. So I think for me, reading some of Epictetus at that time, I hadn't gotten into Marcus Aurelius or Seneca yet, but reading Epictetus and trying to, I think I internalized some of like,

his external conditions did not define his emotional state. Cause he, you know, was a slave who was, we don't know to what degree crippled, I suppose. And thinking about that and thinking about the end of my drinking, where I was so miserable and just wanted to die when I was in prison, I was like, this sucks, right? There's no way around it.

This is not a good time. And it's very scary and all that other stuff. But I at least want to live. I at least want to sort of make the best of this situation. Whereas a year and a half ago, I didn't care if I lived or died. So there is like these little things. Yeah, the little things,

the little things became extremely important in prison. But I actually, I wrote a friend of mine from prison where I was like, I would rather do another five or 10 years in here than drink again, because I think I can survive five or 10 years in here, then drink again, because I think I can survive five or 10 years in here. You never know, but I think I can do it. But I'm pretty sure I would not survive another round with alcoholism.

I'd blow my brains out or someone would kill me or something like that. So I tried to remain grateful for the things I had rather than becoming resentful for the things I didn't have, you know, and I think that's kind of a key for me to regulate my my emotional temperature, I suppose, most of the time when I'm good when I when I actually sit back and do that, I fail at it miserably a lot. I think we all do.

But I try at least, you know, the timeline is you were introduced to the Stoics, you're struggling with sobriety, you start to get sober, and then this all happens. So you're carrying that into what must have been a surreal, bewildering, I need a drink series of moments over like a year and a half. Right. Yes, that's what definitely, but I would not characterize it as a I and a half. Right, yes, that's what definitely, but I would not characterize it as a, I need a drink. I mean, maybe for normal people. I think that was a big fear of my friends, my family, my business associates there.

I know it was, because they told me they were worried I was going to drink. And honestly, it was the last thing on my mind, because I was like, I don't know what's going to happen in here. I don't have a crystal ball. I have to stay present. I have to stay in the moment. But I do know that if I get drunk,

it's definitely not gonna help things at all. Because I have proven that with 22 years of hard research. I'm a knucklehead. So I did two decades. I think it's safe to assume that I could, with great confidence say that drinking is not only not gonna solve my problems, it's gonna make things worse.

So how does the philosophy hold up then? I mean, you obviously hadn't spent years studying it, but suddenly your freedom is taken from you and not that dissimilar to the way Epictetus or Stockdale or any of the stoics who sort of experience this kind of severe adversity. How does it stand up? I'm not going to say that I was like this Bodhisattva like figure of calm in prison at all times, you know? Cause that's, I just wasn't. But facing a very uncertain future, but the sort of philosophy of embracing your current circumstances and not trying to wish futilely

that you were anywhere, but where you are, right at that moment, it works. It works so, so well. I saw people in there who were miserable, always thinking, oh, you know, this person did me wrong and that's why I'm here. And, or conversely, constantly projecting in the future. When I get out of here, I'm gonna do this,

I'm gonna do that. And I'm like, we have to take care of right here, right now, you know? Cause that. And I'm like, we have to take care of right here right now. You know, cause that's all that really exists. If I have one foot in the past and one foot in the future, I'm pissing on the present. And even though right now sucks, you know, I have to address my situation right now.

So what about fear, right? What's gonna happen to me? What could happen to me in prison? You know, how do you, how did you deal with the fear? You know, sometime it was a minute to minute thing. I mean, it's scary. I was the top news story in that, in that country for a while and I went to first to a jail,

the city jail for three days. And then they sent me to prison for 37, I think, Pankratz prison. The first time I walked into the cell block, everybody, they were lining people up, everybody went and looked at me. You know, it's like, it was like a scene in the movie and everyone there knew who I was because I was a news story. You know, so it was pretty scary. I just tried to take things one minute at a time. And that's something I learned in sobriety, right? In getting sober, because when you first get sober,

and it's a cliche, you hear it say one day at a time, you know, that worked. It was an invaluable tool for me in prison and handling fear. Sometimes it's just one minute at a time. Like, here's this new situation. I'm not gonna try and project too many catastrophic outcomes upon this. If I can, I'm just going to handle this one second at a time.

But anyways, I really loved this conversation with Randy. It was good to see him in person. In part one, we're talking about heavy metal. We're talking about questioning your beliefs, Randy's journaling practice, which I'm sure has informed his writings and books over the years. And then of course, we're talking about ego and lead singer disease. I was really excited that he made the trip to do this in person and I'm excited

he's going to be in Austin. Let me see, I have this on my calendar because I'm gonna go see him in person. Not performing music, but looks like on Wednesday, March 5th, Randy is here in Austin on the Just Beyond the Light Spoken Word Tour, which I am excited to go see in person. And let me just get into the episode.

You can follow him on Instagram and Twitter at D Randall Blythe. You can pick up signed copies of Just Beyond the Light at the Painted Porch. And he's got a great sub stack, which I will link to also. Enjoy. I think last time you were here,

this was still a barbershop. That's what this was. Wow. Yeah. And we did it. Yeah, we did it remote last time, I think, right? Yes. So I was in San Diego last year

and this driver picked me up and he was like, oh, I see you have a Metallica shirt on. And I was like, yeah, are you a fan? And he goes, well, I wasn't, but he's like, my son was a fan. And then he starts telling me how he gets into heavy metal because his son is into heavy metal. Right.

And I just loved it so much because it's the exact opposite of how it normally goes. Which is your parents hate your music and they don't give it a chance. They shit all over it. And he was just telling me these amazing stories about all the shows they went to. And I was like, even if he doesn't actually like it,

it almost makes it better if he doesn't actually like it. You know what I mean? First off, it's cool that your son was into something you genuinely got into it, but it's also cool if you didn't and you just did the work. It's almost cooler if you did the work. And I was just thinking about how basically 99.9% of kids who are into heavy metal have the exact opposite experience as this kid did.

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's interesting. Our fan base, as we move into legacy band territory. That is a unique thing, yes. You know, this coming summer, 2025, it'll be 30 years I've been in the band. And the band was instrumental for about six months before me. So they started in 94. So technically, I guess the band is already 30 years old, but without me, there wasn't a complete unit.

But as we move into this sort of legacy territory, we're seeing more and more of what you're describing. But this is the opposite of that. Well, as far as like, as far as families being involved. No, no, the new thing is, which I think is awesome at heavy metal shows, is parents who brought their children, particularly their young children.

But I have met people who have been turned on to our music by their kids. Yes, no, I love that. That's my favorite thing in the bookstore when people come in and they're like, oh, my kid, he was texting me like things from the daily stoke or whatever. That openness to hearing what your kids are into

instead of telling them what they're into sucks or whatever I love. Seen and not be heard. Yeah, yeah, totally. But yeah, it is cool. Like I took my kids, I took my son. What's the show that you did in Sacramento? What's that festival?

Oh, shoot. It's one that Danny Wimmer went to, it's a huge one. Yeah, yeah, so I took my son to see Iron Maiden. Yeah, you told me you were going to go, yeah. Yeah, so I took him and then Judas Priest played first. And then my younger son, who I didn't think would care, got jealous. And so he's like, I want to see Heaven, Melchior. And I was like, well, look, Judas Priest is playing down the street like next week. So I took them to see Judas Priest, which is... Did you meet Rob? I didn't. I just went as a regular.

Rob is a lovely human being. His book's incredible. I just bought it. I haven't read it yet. Don't kill lovely human being. His book's incredible. I just bought it. I haven't read it yet. Don't kill me, Rob. But the first time we met him, we were in Singapore and we were playing with Priest. And before the show, we saw Rob come out to do a little meet and greet. We hadn't seen him yet.

And he looked like he could barely move. He had a cane. He was like, we're like, oh no, this is not good. I didn't realize that he's kind of putting on an act, I think a little bit, but also the coat he is wearing, this leather coat with nothing but metal embedded in it, literally, weighs 90 pounds. And so we see him with this cane and I'm like,

oh, this is gonna be a rough show. It does the Willy Wonka thing. Priest starts and he comes out and he's like, whoo, ah, and like flying around the stage. And it's in Singapore, so it's incredibly hot. And I'm watching Priest from side stage. I'm like, holy shit, he's killing it. And then he went back into this little tent to change outfits or whatever and I didn't

see him and then I'm watching priests they're doing an instrumental part solo blah blah and all of a sudden I get this whiff of baby powder and I feel this wet sweaty hand laying on my shoulder and then I hear this posh voice going, it's brutal, Randy. And I look and there's Rob Halford sweating on me. He is the sweetest guy. If you ever get the chance to meet him, he is a true gentleman.

You know, I found in the books, I mean, I think now you have two, he has two, but I think when people think, oh, this is a book from a dude who's fronting a heavy metal band, they're probably not thinking super thoughtful, super philosophical, super reflective. But I would say both of your books, but his, his are awesome. Yes. Just very deep, great books.

Yeah, he is a great dude. Always been just completely lovely to me and, you know, has done a lot for, I think, acceptance in general. I think he was probably the first person that I knew of that was sort of publicly gay that I cared about. Right. Do you know what I mean? Because in sports, that's happened

like in the last few years, openly gay male athletes is relatively new. And then I'm sure there were actors and stuff that I either didn't know about or I didn't care about as a kid. But I remember finding Judas Priest's music, which was older than me, obviously, and liking it. And then finding out that not that he was gay,

but that he was gay and nobody cared. Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay, so this isn't a thing. Because in my, where I grew up and what people around me thought, people did care. Do you know what I mean? Like it was a thing that mattered. And there was something immensely freeing

and I think positive about it being a low key non-important thing that was instrumental in shaping how I now go through the world. Right, sure. It was not overbearing like, this is the sole facet of my identity you need to focus on. Yes.

But it is incredibly funny in retrospect before he quote unquote came out of the closet to see if you've seen the documenting heavy metal parking lot. No. You know, oh my God. Wait, is this, this isn't downfall of Western civilization? No, no, no, no, no. Heavy metal parking lot.

You can find it on YouTube. It took place in Maryland. These people go to the parking lot of this big arena. I think it's the Capitol center and it's just 1980s dudes with mullets in the parking lot, getting ripped outside of Priest's show. It's incredible. And they interview them, these two people who had a proto video camera or whatever.

It's hilarious. You need to see it. But it is very funny to me that metal became sort of like super macho to wall and a lot of these styles, the leather and all that stuff came from priest. Totally. Which came from Tom of Finland. Yeah, yeah. You know, the whole like, you might as well be

in the Castro in San Francisco, walking around looking like that. Yes. Well, and also what the audience was interpreting as sort of heterosexual, Lyrics. Macho love songs. Yeah.

Take on a different, you know what I mean? And which it's just funny that nothing has changed. Yeah. But what we perceive- Your perception. Yes. And whether we're, yeah, it's funny. Yeah, it's just super funny.

Super funny. funny. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Even the smallest business needs insurance. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today. Starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com, Canada's leading small business insurance provider.

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Listen to Unruffled ad free right now on Wondery Plus. ["Wonderful Plus"] They have so many more songs than you think. Priest? Yes. Huge catalog. I know. No, I don't, I just mean like because Judas Priest, I think I've said this before, Judas Priest is a heavy metal band but they also sort of predate heavy metal. So they're just like a 70s rock band first. So there, do you know what I mean? There's like these classic, they kind of go from classic rock to heavy metal and now they're like a super heavy metal band.

And so you just kind of forget when they play live, you're like, oh, I've heard this. I didn't even know this was a Jewish priest song. That sort of, oh, oh yeah, of course, Jewish priest. Well, there is an argument that Priest is the first heavy metal band. I love you, Rob, and I've heard him sort of claim it, but Sabbath, dude. but Sabbath did not refer

to themselves as heavy metal. Rob and them, they were like, we are metal. Yeah. Metal, I love my metal, as Rob would say. It's very, this is metal. This is what I am, you know? But I think both of them kind of, both Sabbath and Judas Priest, there is like a little,

there's sort of that 70s rock that segues into kind of 80s metal. And so what's the difference? I don't, you couldn't really. It's really hard to define. And dude, nothing will set the metal community afire, like arguing what is metal, who was the first metal band.

I mean, I think it's Sabbath because, you know, I only had his finger chopped off. He had to build these things, down tune. There's just like, ugh, that darkness. Yeah. So, yeah, man. The last time I was here, just came for a brief visit. We were talking about Maiden.

Yeah. I think I told you about a couple of interactions that I would bruise tickets in. And then the latest, I've been waiting to update you. We were in Brazil last year or year before, last year and went up. We were in this hotel and our security guy, because you have to have security in South America, was like, do you want to go on the roof? It's on this skyscraper in Brazil.

And I'm like, of course I do. Yeah. You know? And, cause he knew the people who ran the hotel and we go up there and he's like, let's go down to the super private posh lounge. And I walk in and who was there but Bruce Dickinson. And so had a lovely conversation with him.

Do you know where the Iron Maiden logo came from? You mean Eddie? No, the logo. The font? Yes. No. Bruce Dickinson himself, I've been waiting to tell you this story. Okay, I'm dying.

We were sitting there and I know his son, loosely, but we were talking about music and just had a great conversation and somehow the iconic Maiden logo came up and he's like, do you know where that came from? the iconic Maiden logo came up and he's like, do you know where that came from? And I'm like, no, it came from David Bowie. There was a David Bowie poster for a record, it's on a record. You have to look it up.

One of the guys in Maiden saw it in a record store window and was like, I like the font on this David Bowie record and ripped it off. And that's where Iron Man's logo, look it up. Okay, I will. I, we're podcasting already. Otherwise I'd like Google it real quick for you. But it's a true story from Bruce Dickinson himself.

Had a lovely conversation with him. Great guy. He's the best. Yeah. He was just on Rich Rolls podcast. Oh really? Yeah, it's like the only one he's ever done. Yeah, when he was too busy fencing and flying and stuff. Yeah, and I think also what's interesting

about Iron Maiden is like, I don't think they do any press at all because they don't need to. Have to? Yeah, they're just like. We're Iron Maiden, what a way. Yeah, exactly. No, it was really interesting.

But okay, so we'll do one more heavy metal thing and then we'll get into this. But, no, I wanna talk about the book, cause it's amazing. But did you know that the expression, to me this is a very stoic idea, cause do you know what an egg corn is? An egg corn is like when you confidently mishear

an expression. If you hear someone say egg corn, you might think it's egg corn, right? But like for all intensive purposes, someone might say, but it's not think it's egg corn, right? But like for all intensive purposes, someone might say, but it's not for all intense and purposes, right? You miss here the expression, but it still makes sense to you.

So you think that's the expression. So did you know the expression is not, you've got another thing coming? The lyrics? The expression, that's an expression. The expression is, you've got another think coming. What? Yes, the expression is you've got another think coming,

which to me is classic stoicism. Like you heard something, you have to think about it. Yes. Like, now you've got another think coming here, man. So you gotta think about this again. It's basically saying think again, right? But they either misheard it or purposefully changed the expression

to you've got another thing coming. And then the song is so big that that became its own expression. But there was an expression that predates it that is you've got another thing coming. Halvard changed the course of history. I think so. I'm going to ask him next time I see it. Isn't that amazing? That's crazy. I've always heard you'm going to ask him next time I see it. Isn't that amazing? That's crazy. I've always heard you got another thing.

You got another thing coming. You've got another thing coming. That's like saying, hey, something's gonna come. Yeah, yeah. You know, whatever. But the expression about like, hey, you're wrong. And you need to think again here. That's wild.

Which is actually a great expression, which we could probably use more than the warning. Hey, you got another thing. You got another comment. Like if you think I'm gonna do that, you've got another thing. But it's like, no, no, no, if you think I'm gonna do that, think again, right, is actually the expression.

Amazing, amazing. Isn't that lovely? It is, it's totally awesome. But you hear it enough times, or it makes sense to you in your mind, and it becomes what it is, which is, I think this, to me, one of the key stoic ideas is like, your mind is not your friend,

or your mind is fucking wrong all the time. All the time. Trust, but verify. Absolutely. That's what stoic philosophy is. You have the impression and you have the self-awareness to go, I get the shit wrong all the time. I mishear things all the time.

I jump to conclusions all the time. I'm gonna give this another think. Let me stop, evaluate, and see if this is just my emotional initial reaction to the impression. Is this actually true? Yes, that's something I have been focusing on in the first part of this year a lot in my journaling every morning.

That's even what journaling is. In writing down my thoughts, I have to think about them again. Yeah. Right, because when you have them in your head, they're just true. That's the sketchy thing about thought. They're just there, and by nature of you having them,

they exist, and for the most part remain in question. And I think the fundamental practice of journaling, fundamentally what journaling requires is you to articulate that thought outside of your head and then you see how fucking stupid most of them are. Right, I kind of write about that at the beginning of the book about questioning my own beliefs, you know? Like why am I holding these beliefs?

What thoughts and occurrences have happened that have made me think this way. And are those valid still to this day? Because a lot of my sort of, I don't know, the way I view life has not changed much from when I was 18, the core of it, you know? And luckily, I think that stuff that I hold from those younger years is based in having a correctly calibrated moral compass. So that's not like that has to shift, but there's a lot of sort of surface level

judgmental things that I've been trying to really examine and think about and say, is this just a costume that you've worn? Yeah. You know, or is this part of your identity? Yeah, my sister-in-law was saying this once. She was saying like, I was starting to get afraid to drive at night. And she was like, I don't like driving at night.

I'm afraid of it. And then she was like, wait, no, no, no. My mother is afraid to drive at night. Yeah. So she was just like, she had just sort of unquestioningly picked up an identifying belief that she didn't actually identify with. Right.

But you say it to yourselves enough times and you act on it enough times, which is you drive less at night. Yeah. And so it becomes scarier and harder. Yes. It becomes part of who you are. But since it's not actually who you are

at any kind of cellular level, you can discard it not easily, but if you do some work on it, you can go, oh wait, this actually isn't true. And I can build the corresponding identity that says this is not true by acting on it over and over and over again, until it becomes as true as the false assumption. Yes, well, it's very interesting

because you're bringing up the driving thing, and I've seen this happen with my girlfriend. She's from New York City, therefore does not drive, right? Move down south and I'm like, eventually you're gonna have to drive. Yeah, you're gonna need to get somewhere. Yeah, so're gonna need to get somewhere. Yeah, so we went car shopping and I tried to get her

even just like a Toyota with some safety features. And she's like, it's too big, too big. So we got the smallest, tiniest car we get, not quite a smart car, but almost. It's like a go-kart. And so we drove around the neighborhood very slowly. And I'm a good driver teacher, thank God. Very patient, but we drove around very slowly.

And then when I went on tour and came back a month later, she was like, I don't drive forever. I don't drive. I can't drive. I don't drive. And I'm like, you need to be able to drive because we aren't in New York. And also, what if I got hurt or something

and you need to carry me? This is a skill you can develop. I don't know, I don't know. I'm gonna have to do it. And she was super anxious about it, drove around the neighborhood a little bit. And then when I, now I'm come back a month and a half later from tour, she's driving and I'm sitting in the car

with her seeing a very real sort of change in what she is in the manner in which she drives. She has become comfortable with it. Whereas before it was, I'm like, you have to accelerate to get out of the turn. We can't go five miles an hour. But this was something she had told herself. You know, like you were saying again and again and again.

And then seeing it change in real time, it's like you are a driver. Yeah, you just have these assumptions about the world that you pick up as a kid. Like you said, some of it's good, like the sort of moral compass of like artistic integrity or your taste or how you treat people or whatever, that probably is stuff you don't wanna change.

Well, taste is... You wanna do it, but you know what I'm saying? Like, you don't wanna be someone who changes with every trend. No, God no. I like what I like and this is what lights me up. That kind of earnest childlike excitement about something I think you wanna preserve.

But then there's this other part where you're like, why would I put a 17-year-old in charge of something that they hired a 37-year-old to do? Or like, I would never tell a 17-year-old they should have kids, right? And I have kids, so I can't be that 17- old. That 17 year old and how they think about things and what they're capable of doing is not at all qualified or equipped to do emotionally what needs to be done here. And so this process of going, hey, what are the scripts I have, the beliefs I have, the habits I have, the patterns I have

that are part of whatever the child had to be to survive in the shitty high school environment, the contentious divorced childhood, you know, household environment, whatever it was, whatever you had to become to make sense of the hormones swirling through your body or the things you weren't getting from parents or teachers or whatever is almost certainly not what the situation you're in right now demand.

No, absolutely not. I think about, you do develop certain, I don't know, coping mechanisms and social skills at a young age, depending on the environment. But I think about just the things that were important to me when I was 16 years old. Yes. They were earth shattering, you know?

Sure. And I look back on them now and I'm like, oh my God, you know, I wasted so much time worrying about this. But that is the nature of being 16. Sure. So I think there's the environment kids are growing up in today is complex. Yeah. the environment kids are growing up in today is complex. Compared to when we were little, not everybody had a little supercomputer in their pocket,

the pocket Jesus. The weird thing is I think it's the same environment that we were growing up in, just magnified. Magnified. Enormously. A million times, yeah, amplified by this crazy digital thing. But when I feel myself getting judgmental towards younger people,

because they're upset over sort of what I view as obviously ridiculous things, because they are, I have to sit back and think on my own mentality at that time. I was 16 once. I thought, cared about a lot of stupid shit. Sure.

And you're not 16, and you still care about a lot of stupid shit. Sure. Well, and you're not 16 and you still care a lot about a lot of stupid shit. Yes. And so to me, when I see people doing stuff like that, I try to go, what am I being stupid about? Not you're being stupid, right? Because like fundamentally stoicism is, what are you control?

And you're probably not gonna bully someone into not being stupid about something. But you might have some success bullying yourself into not being stupid about something. But you might have some success bullying yourself into not being stupid about something. You know, like I always find it remarkable how easy it is to see ego in other people. Oh God. And then how insidious it is to see it in yourself.

Oh yes, horrifying. Exactly. It's something constantly work on keeping in check, constantly, you know, especially being in a band. Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science, to operations so secretive they

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Plus. You can join Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial today. Yeah, I would say being a lead singer is probably the of a successful band. Maybe even maybe it's actually harder to be in a not successful band, but there's something about it that is uniquely toxic to the ego. Yeah. It's like gasoline. It also is a requirement a little bit, I think, to be the front man of a band,

is to have a bit of ego. Because you think I should be the main one. Yes. I mean, not even, I don't know, it's interesting. I kind of became the singer of my band by mistake, you know, but like to be a good frontman, you have to have the willingness to get up and make an idiot out of yourself again. Besides a smidgen of talent, the only requirement to be a good frontman is the willingness to get in front of other people and make an idiot of yourself again and again and again until you get good at it, right?

And in order to do that, I believe there has to be a healthy amount of ego. Well, that's why I meant, I think it might actually be worse for the ego to be in a failed or an up and coming band than a successful band, because a successful band, you can be like, you understand it's unhealthy and you can create some artificial distance. Sure. Right?

You can be like, it's not about me. Yes. You know, I don't wanna take it too seriously. You can sort of self-efface. To me, where the ego is required in the sort of performative, whether it's sitting down to write a book and write a song, whatever,

is the part of you that goes, everyone wants to hear this when no one has asked for it. Literally no one has asked for it. And in fact, they're actually telling you for a good chunk of the time you're doing it, that they are fundamentally not interested. Like you are getting rejected over and over and over again.

And you're like, no, but this is really good and everyone needs to hear it. And that is the definition of ego, right? Like the rejection of the evidence over your belief or faith in yourself. And so I think in that way, ego can be adaptive early on. The problem is it's so fundamentally maladaptive later on. And this is, I think the lead singers or artists

or whatever that we know about, that we would say is egotistical, are the ones who are fundamentally stuck at how they were. Yes. Whatever they had to be to be the up and coming lead singer of Guns N' Roses, you are still the lead singer of Guns N' Roses. Yeah, for sure.

And we call it LSD, lead singer's disease. You know, he's got a bad case of the LSD. I've managed to keep mine in check. The ones that I've seen where they have not changed, it's unfortunate because you see, you're in this big band, but you're just miserable. You're a miserable human being. Luckily, the biggest singers I've ever met from the biggest bands have

all just been so cool, living legends, you know, and they are a different animal on stage when they walk off just the most humble people you could ever imagine, you know, I'm not saying I'm the most humble guy, I'm not the king of Humility Hill, as they say, but I try to definitely keep in check because you turn into something no one respects eventually. Well, the famous viral video of you where you're walking through and the security woman stops you and asks for your badge.

And then someone says, do you know who this is basically? And she's like, I'm so sorry. And you're like, no, no, no, you're doing your badge. And then someone says, do you know who this is basically? And she's like, I'm so sorry. And you're like, no, no, no, you're doing your job. That can be easy to forget. That like, not just that everyone's doing their job, but like her job isn't to make your life easier. Her job is to prevent people from going in an area that are not meant to be there. But when your life is built around green lights,

you can start to assume that it's always supposed to be green lights. And I think there's- What is this inconvenience? And there's something helpful about being successful, but not too successful. So where sometimes you get the green lights and sometimes you don't, you're able to go, oh, this is one of the So where sometimes you get the green lights

and sometimes you don't, you're able to go, oh, this is one of the times where I'm getting the green lights, it's nice, but absurd. As opposed to you get them all the time. I think you can cross over to a certain level of fame or success and then it's just the default all the time. That's where you get the don't look them in the eyes kind of thing.

Sometimes you get an upgrade in life, sometimes you don't. If you sometimes get the upgrade, then you appreciate the upgrade because you know you were planning on sitting in coach or you remember what it's like to sit in coach. But if it ceases to be the upgrade and it becomes the default, you take it for granted. And then there's a fragility there because when you don't have it, it feels like you're being punished instead of just not blessed. Right, yeah, I think that's one reason why

I'm very grateful that the, quote unquote, success of my band has been a gradual thing. We have not had this rocketing moment, you know, where we hatched out of a rockstar egg or something. It's just been very much like this, slow incline, and the whole time we've been like, wow, people actually care. Like, this is amazing. And I think it's been a bit easier for us to stay grounded in that sense.

You know, I think when you're 21 years old, and then all of a sudden you're headlining an arena. I mean, I was an idiot when I was 21 years old. And that kind of shit just, but. It's disorienting. Yeah, I do have friends who were super famous who are still very cool and who still do recognize that stuff. But they generally come from very humble backgrounds and have managed to remember where they come from.

I think that's key. As you're saying, not just become acclimated to this life of convenience and adoration or whatever. It had so many fans be like, I know they're just using it as a euphemism. I've said this since the beginning, and they were like, dude, you're a God. And I'm like, you need to pick a better deity.

I am highly fallible, temperamental, and you know, I suck, basically. And even just saying that stuff, again, even in just a joking way, like correcting that expression, I think, at least sort of keeps me in my place a little bit right-sized. No, it's funny, like some celebrities will be like,

I can't believe you're talking to me while I'm with my family or whatever. It's actually better for me when people recognize me when I'm with my family. First off, because it's never glamorous stuff that I'm doing, but also my kids immediately make fun of me for it. Like they're bothered by it in the sense

that it's not like an inconvenient, but they're just like, that's not how they see me. And so it actually like levels it off in a way that, I mean, it's weird if someone wants to take a picture with you, I don't mean to judge them. It's a weird experience for you. You're just going through your life and someone wants to take a picture with you. I don't mean to judge them. It's a weird experience for you. You're just going through your life and someone wants to just capture

that they were near you at one time, that's odd. And then it's also like, I'm sure you notice it sometimes, if you're a perceptive or empathetic person at all, you're like, oh, this person is having a hard time even being in my presence. Oh dude. Like this person is shaking. Oh yes.

And that like, that's not something you should feel is normal to you. Like there's a kiss in your line where he says, you know, one of the problems is that on the way up, you worry if you're boring people and then you get to a certain level where people worry that they're boring you. It shouldn't be normal that people

are uncomfortable around you. Right. because now you're not an equal person going through the world. No. And that's destabilizing, feeds the ego, and it just disorients you about who you are and what you are. Yeah. My band, we've had so many times we've met people

or when I meet people, even just not with the band, just in my life, and they're shaking and my girl will be like, I'll take the phone, I'll take the picture because their hands are like. They cannot operate their phone. I'm like, meanwhile, any other time they could land the space shuttle with this thing, you know? And my girl is like, give me the phone, I'll take it.

And they're shaking and it's, I always just laugh. To me, I just laugh. I'm like, it's one of my favorite things to do is like, they're really nervous, just put my arm around, taking a picture, boo, ah, scream. And then it just laugh hysterically because it's ridiculous. It took me a long time to accept the fact that,

and I write about it in the end of the book, the last chapter, for me to accept that like, people are actually happy to meet me. Yeah. Right, I'm like, wow, they're happy to see me. And 99% of the time, extremely pleasant. I can't see myself getting annoyed with people that I bring joy to.

Yeah. Right, and touring and the band thing, it wears you down, but my guitar player, Mark and I, for the last, I guess, year and I, we were on the same side. Before we go on stage, one of us will look at each other right before we go on stage, and we will say the same thing. We will say, bring forth the joy.

Bring forth the joy! We're doing it like that, though, you know? And that is to remind us that even if we're having a crappy day, you know, how cool is this? Yes. We get to bring people joy with our music, and you see it, and that's, you know, I can't let having a rough day get in the way of that. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much

to us and would really help the show. We appreciate it. And I'll see you next episode. If you like The Daily Stoic and thanks for listening, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. And before you go, would you tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey on