The Daily Stoic - Lamb of God’s Randy Blythe on Conquering Inner Demons and Memento Mori (PT. 2)

Episode Date: February 22, 2025

In this Part 2 episode, Randy Blythe, the lead singer of Lamb of God shares how his time in a Czech prison flipped his whole perspective on life, the cost of genius, and how thinking about mortality rewired his mindset. In his new book, Just Beyond the Light, Randy shares his approach to life, talks about what he’s learned touring the world as the vocalist of a successful heavy metal band, and the ways he is doing what he can to leave the world a better place.Randy’s coming to a city near you! Grab tickets here: https://randyblythe.com/Follow Randy on Instagram and X @DRandallBlythe and check out his Substack📚 Pick up signed copies of Just Beyond the Light at The Painted Porch: https://www.thepaintedporch.com/🎙️Listen to Randy Blythe’s first interview on The Daily Stoic Podcast on Apple Podcast and Spotify  🎥 Watch Randy Blythe’s first interview on The Daily Stoic Podcast here 🎙️ Follow The Daily Stoic Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast🎥 Watch top moments from The Daily Stoic Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dailystoicpodcast✉️ Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Get Stoic inspired books, medallions, and prints to remember these lessons at the Daily Stoic Store: https://store.dailystoic.com/📱 Follow us:  Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, and FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to the Daily Stoic early and ad free right now. Just join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Daily Stoic is based here in this little town outside Austin. When we have podcast guests come in and go, oh, what hotel should I stay at? Honestly, there's not really many great hotels out here, but there are a bunch of beautiful Airbnbs that you could stay in a ranch. You could stay on something overlooking the Colorado River. They've even got yurts in the woods out here. And Airbnb has a million different options, old historic houses.

Usually when I travel, I'm staying in an Airbnb. That is when I'm bringing my kids. We make a whole experience of it. And usually what I do is I pull up Airbnb, I look at guest favorites, I type in, okay, we want this many rooms, this many bathrooms, we want a pool, we want a washer and dryer, whatever it is, and you can find an awesome place to stay in.

And I've been doing it now, crazy me, at least 15 years I've been staying in Airbnbs, basically since it came out. I love Airbnb and you should check it out for your next trip. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free.

Even the smallest business needs insurance. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today, starting at $19 per month at ZenSurance.com, Canada's leading small business insurance provider. Be protected. Be Zen. Welcome to the weekend edition of The Daily Stoic.

Each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview Stoic philosophers. We explore at length how these Stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend, when you have a little bit more space, when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal, and most importantly to prepare for what the week ahead may bring.

week ahead may bring. and why I quit, but my life did get better when I stopped. Every time actually I quit a social network, my life seems to get better. Quit a long time ago, I haven't checked it, but I wanted to see about something. Someone told me they were putting out a petition for like my high school reunion or something, and I needed to give my info or whatever. It's gonna be my 20th year reunion, which is insane to me. But as I was scrolling through this group,

managed to figure out how to get back into the account. As I'm scrolling through this group, I managed to figure out how to get back into the account. As I'm scrolling through this group, it was like mostly notices about people who had died or people who'd been in a horrible accident and needed a GoFundMe campaign or whatever. And it was a, you know, not the memento mori reminder I was expecting, but it also makes perfect sense, right? Like this is a group for whom 20 years have passed. And not just in the sense that 20 years has passed that none of us will get back, but those 20 years, not everyone got them. And for some people that 20 years was the end of it, which is all of which reminded me of the song I was listening to before today's guest came on. One of Lamb of God's biggest song is a song,

Memento Mori, and that's an overlap between my work, the Stoics, and today's guest, Randy Blythe, is the lead singer of the heavy metal band Lamb of God, which has been a band for like three decades. Like they were a band before I was in high school, they were a band for the last 20 years. They have been going for a very long time. And they have a fascinating story,

not just because they're one of the, you know, sort of longest running, best heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy metal bands, but because of Randy's story, Randy was thrown in a Czech prison a few years ago, a sort of miscarriage of justice. It was a surreal and I imagine eye-opening event for him to be not just in a Czech prison, but on trial, effectively for a large chunk of your life. And we talked about that when he was on the podcast the first time.

He wrote a great book about that period of his life called Dark Days, which was a, I don't wanna say a surprise hit, but I think received much more as the literary work that it was than just a sort of heavy metal singer that maybe you don't listen to putting out a book. It was a great book and he has a new book out called Just Beyond the Light, Making Peace with the Wars Inside Our Head, which has a bunch of stoicism in it. I think you'll really like this

episode. He came out to the studio. We were able to do it in person. He's actually been out to the bookstore a couple times. He has a friend who lives here in Bastrop named Kirst, who we've gotten to know. He's the one who facilitated this wonderful intro. In part two of the episode, Randy and I are talking about his experience there in a Czech prison, how it changes, how he sees challenges

and difficulties today. You can imagine it puts things in perspective a little bit. And then in Just Beyond the Light, which we talked about a lot in the interviews, talking about his approach to life, sobriety, art, and what he's learned touring the world as a vocalist in a very successful heavy metal band, but still I would say a working class heavy metal band

and the very real ways he's doing what he can to leave the world a better place as we all must. You can follow Randy on Instagram and Twitter at D Randall Blythe. Pick up signed copies of Just Beyond the Light at the Painted Porch. Do read Dark Days. Listen to their song Memento Mori if you want to weigh in to Lamb of God. And let's get into it. Thanks to Randy for coming out.

And as I said, I'm going to go see Randy. He's doing a spoken word appearance for Just Beyond the Light. He's touring all over the country, but he's going to be here in Austin, I think on March 5th. So I'm excited to see that. Check out tour dates to see where he is touring in your area.

And then of course, check out Lamb of God. Enjoy. touring in your area. And then of course, check out Lamb of God. Enjoy. My first handful of books were very painful to do. Yes. Because I, I mean, I didn't know if I could do them. So that was scary.

And I didn't have necessarily a financial security. So there's pressure. Right. But there's an expression, painters like painting, but writers like having written. And I like having written. And I like that expression. I also hate that expression. That's an expression that should not be true.

That's a stupid expression to be true. If you are getting paid to write a book, that should be pleasurable. And if it isn't, writing is not to blame, you are to blame. To me, the stoic idea, if I'm enduring this unpleasant, painful thing so that it's worth it getting paid at the end or hitting a list at the end or winning an award at the end, then what I'm not doing is stoicism, because that is what I'm saying.

I'm doing all this stuff contingent on getting some other stuff that's not in my control. Right. And by the way, if you know anything about any of the entertainment industries, you very rarely do people get what they deserve. In fact, you get fucked over a lot. A lot. And so that would be insane for me to torture myself for the low percentage chance of getting something that's not in my control. And so I have tried to work on sitting down and going like,

I get to do this today. This is fun. The book that I am saving into Dropbox when I'm finished for the day, that's the book. And so actually I'm not writing, like so when I save my drafts, every day I save the draft as a new file with that date in it. So if I wake up one day and I think I went on the wrong course, I can just go back in time.

Right, right, right. I need to steal this from you instead of replacing the draft. Also if like a file gets corrupted or some editor inserts on it, I want to be able to know like, okay, I was working on this when I was here on these dates, so I wanna go back to that draft. But what I've come to see is that each one of those days is a complete book. So like if I wrote today, saved that draft, and then I got hit by a bus, that's the book. Yeah.

Right, an editor might work on it or whatever, but that's the book as far as I was able to finish on it. Right. And so I try to see every day as like a complete day. I'm signing the book that day, it's done. And so it better have been one, my best effort that I put everything in there. And then two, it better have been worth it. It was shitty and unpleasant, but it's all worth it for the album release party or whatever.

Right, for this future cookie that may or may not arrive. Yeah, yeah. For me, I think how writing is for me, it's tough, dude. Like at least nonfiction. Well, if it was easy, everyone would do it. Yes. There's a difference, I think, between difficult and awful. Yes, yes.

You know? Or difficult and miserable. Yes, yes. You know? Or difficult and miserable. Yes. Difficult is the level of skill required. Miserable is the mood. Right, yeah, 100%. You're talking about this stuff. Each day is a complete day.

For me, I will say, as I got closer to the end of the book, and this is just my horrible, catastrophizing end, I became increasingly aware of my own mortality. And I'm thinking, I have to at least get this in a place where if I die, the editor can take it and put it out. I mean, not that that would make any difference to me now that I'm gone, but. They don't send you a galley.

No, they don't send me a galley in wherever I'm going. But I guess it was because I'm trying to write something of worth, something that could be of service to someone. I felt this is important, man, I need to get this done. And I had these weird, like, I'd be driving, I'm like, pay attention, don't get in a car wreck right now, you have to finish this book.

No, I don't think that, it's like, I think about it like an athlete, right? Like, because athletes are just shrunken down versions of our own mortality arc, right? Because like, you only get to play for so long and it's much sooner the body goes before the mind as an athlete, right? And so at some point you lace up for your last game,

at some point it's your last season. And every athlete I've ever talked to wishes that they'd enjoyed playing more. They don't wish that they tried less hard, right? In some cases, maybe they wish they tried more. But like enjoying it doesn't mean you don't try it practice. It means you're just not bitching at practice. You're grateful that you get to practice

because you are aware of the ephemerality and the inevitability of this ending. And so I kind of think about it that way. So it's like, it's still really hard. It's still really taxing. I'm still exhausted. I'm still never sure if it's good or not. But day to day, I'm not allowing myself to say woe is me. This

sucks. I don't sit at my desk and be a writer. Yeah. And I also don't allow it to give me a pass on my other responsibilities as a human being because like, this is just one of the things that I'm doing, right? So I can't the things that I'm doing. Right. So I can't, the fact that I'm writing doesn't justify me shuffling around the house in a grouchy mood because I'm the tortured artist. Like, I just think the tortured, the tortured put upon artists thing is bullshit. Yeah. And it's what you are putting on yourself. And you can not,

you can not put it on yourself if you do the work to tick it off. It's a cultural mythos that is widespread. and I think a lot of artists worth their salt, if they mature enough, they realize the futility of this and the false nature of it. I mean, in my case, you're talking about the tortured artist. In my case and in many of my friends, this sort of tortured artist identity manifested itself in a nice case of alcoholism and drug abuse. You know?

And so then that's another component. And I look at some of the sort of bullshit I bought into as an angst-ridden young man reading Bukowski, reading Hemingway, Hunter S. Thompson, Will Burroughs, all brilliant writers, right? And I'm sitting there reading this stuff and knowing about their lives because I'm fascinated by authors. Doing a lot of the things these great writers did, I did a lot of drinking, I did a respectable amount of womanizing, got in a few fist fights even, did some wild shit.

I'm doing all the things that the great writers are doing with the exception of one major thing that is writing. Right? Sure. I'm practicing to be a writer, I guess. And it wasn't until I got sober, you know, at age 39 that I was able to sit down and write a book. It was after, it's a few years after that.

But I had the sort of mental fortitude. Some people build careers while drunk writing. I don't know how they do it. I built a career as a lunatic singer. That was easier to do for me. But there's that aspect of just it has to be miserable, like the dark artist. I think good art does require some friction to a degree, but I don't think that means you have to be just this miserable, horrible human being. The idea that this stuff is like conducive to the creative process, it's like, Hunter S. Thompson was like a zombie for the last 20 years of his life, like in a creative desert of his own making.

Oh yes. Hemingway blew his brains out. Yeah, like it cost them and us, like decades of good shit. And it turns out it wasn't core. Like is Kanye West a great musician because he's a raging egomaniac, narcissist asshole? I don't think so. I think he's a great musician

because he's a great musician. Great musician. Is Kyrie Irving a great basketball player because he's a wacko? No, he's a great basketball player. Who's a wacko? And being a wacko has cost him and us a lot of great basketball player because he's a wacko? No, he's a great basketball player who's a wacko. And being a wacko has cost him and us a lot of great basketball.

I have to imagine that actually Kanye West is very objective and clear-headed when he's doing music. It's probably the only place he's sane because you can't make great shit out of your mind. I think people totally learn the wrong lesson. Steve Jobs was an asshole who was also a great CEO and leader. Right. And those were disconnected parts of himself.

And one often got in the way of the good parts of the self. For sure. You just realized your business needed to hire someone like yesterday. With Indeed, there's no need to stress. You can find amazing candidates fast using Sponsored Jobs. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates, so you can reach the people you want faster. And just how fast is Indeed? In the minute I've been talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed, according to Indeed

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Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial today. You have a great line in the book, thinking about like when you're like, Oh, woe is me is so hard. You're a great line in the book, thinking about like when you're like, oh, woe is me, it's so hard. You had a great line in the book you said, like, try spending a few months in a foreign prison. Yes. Does that kind of just turn down the volume on everything?

Like when you went through that, you're just like, I'm not in a fucking Hungarian prison or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Check, check, check. I'm not in a Czech prison today, so it's a good fucking day. Yeah, on my bookshelf right by my writing desk, actually there's a picture of that prison that I took, which if you look at the cover of my last book,

Dark Days, it's a self-portrait they made me take because they want your, I did not want my own photo on the book, but hey, I'm the singer in a heavy metal band. They're like, this sells books. When I had gone back for trial, I felt compelled to return to this prison because it was 137 years old and crumbling, this crumbling edifice. And I took this photo of the outside of the prison with barbed wire on it.

And I saw this clock, which was the only clock I had for the whole time I was in there. This crumbling old clock that I would see once a day when they let us out into the yard. But I took this sort of out-of-focus picture of the prison that's the cover of my book. I have a small print of that same photo and it sits on my bookshelf where if I look up to the right it's above me. Yeah. And it reminds me, hey dude. At least you're not in, Hey dude, you almost did five to 10 in a Czech prison. You may or may not have come out of that. Yeah. You know, you're here writing a book.

Yeah. Don't cry. This is the best possible timeline. Yeah. I love that expression. This is the best possible timeline. Yeah. You know, I wrote about that in my first book when I was in prison, I was like, you're in prison.

This sucks. Your freedom may be taken from you in a foreign country for several years. You know where you're not? Afghanistan. You're not having people shooting at you, you know? You're not living in a Quonset hut and shitting in a bucket and eating MREs and having your limbs possibly blown off.

You can apply that to basically anything. It's hard to, I don't know, reach a point where you're like, someone is not going through something else tougher than me. For me, I will say though, going to prison in a foreign country was, it puts things in perspective, dude. It puts things in perspective. We were sitting, well, I was out on bail, right? And we had to go on tour pretty much immediately because I have five lawyers and they cost

a lot of money. And this is lamb of God, not Led Zeppelin. So we're touring and everybody's like, what are you going to do? I'm like, I'm gonna go back to trial. What's gonna happen? I don't know, I don't have a crystal ball. And we're cruising around doing this tour and it was like the last thing I wanted to be doing was,

hey, is everybody having a good time tonight? Cause you're not. Cause I'm not, but think about me, me, me. But no one cares about that. My job is to get up there and make it have a good time. So we got through that, but at one point, I remember sitting in the back lounge of our bus and my guitar player, Mark, dear friend,

not the biggest fan of touring. He likes the studio. I hate the studio. He loves it. I hate it. But he doesn't like touring. We're sitting there, and I guess I'd been out of prison about two months at that time, two or three months

and we're riding along and he's having a bad day and he's like, this feels like prison. And I just looked at him and just kind of just smile. Does it? And I'm like, really? Yeah. And he's just, oh yeah. I was like, this is not like prison, bro. Trust me.

Well, you're the guy, Wayne, your friend, who you wrote a song about, who's dying of leukemia, and you shoot him a text you're complaining about a rough day in the studio, and he's like, you need a tissue? Yeah, this fan, his dad, who, I sent him that chapter, I sent Wayne's family, it's already been in the press, the first chapter of the book is called The Duke,

named after a lamb of God song song about this guy, Wayne Ford. He was a fan I'd met and was terminal with leukemia. But we would text each other and kind of got to know each other during the last couple of months of his life. But I was in the studio and I'm just, I hate the studio. And I'm just like, oh, he's like, how you doing, man? I'm like, oh, I'd rather chew glass than go hate the studio. And I'm just like, oh, he's like, how you doing, man? I'm like, oh, I'd rather chew glass than go into this studio.

And he's like, you need a tissue, dude. Yeah, yeah. Have you tried dying of leukemia? Yeah, have you tried dying of leukemia, bro? Must be tough to be you. And I'm just like, oh, shit. Yeah. Let me shut my mouth.

Sure. Yeah, that's the problem with suffering is that there really are no decrees of it. So like whatever you're going through is the most important thing in the world to you. And it takes on this enormous outsized significance. Even though objectively, I think at some level we all understand it could be much worse and we could be suffering much worse and we have suffered much worse. Yes.

My ankle hurts though. You know what I mean? And so like be suffering much worse. And we have suffered much worse. My ankle hurts though. You know what I mean? And so, like, it's just hard. And I think part of Stoicism is this process. That's what the journaling is about. That's what the exercises are about. It's just getting a smidge of perspective. Yes. Trying to carry it forward because it's easy every morning when I sit down with my daily Stoic journal, which I'm on number four, this is the fourth year, and I have the leather cover. Oh, you do? I was going to give you one. Okay.

I have one. I'll take one for my girlfriend. All right. Sure. But every year, you know, I sit down and I write this. Every morning when I write, I did it this morning. I try and carry sort of like perspective, you know, give me a smidgen of perspective and thinking about externals a lot into the world.

And then something happens, you know, and for me it's always the more minuscule things. Like in a real crisis, I'm good. I'm a calm level. I'm the dependable guy. But if the computer stops working and I'm trying to edit a photo, it's like. Yeah! It's like if your arm got cut off,

you'd be like, I need to get to a hospital, my arm is cut off. Like the home deaf leopard. And then if I cut my finger on this thing, I'd be like, fuck, my finger. You know, there's something about the body and the mind are pretty good when shit really hits the fan. Because we know we can't afford the nonsense.

Right, yeah. And so I sometimes try to catch myself when I'm freaking out about something or I'm not handling it well. I go, you're only acting this way because you know you have the luxury of acting this way. Oh, that's a great way to look at it. It is, it is a luxury.

I was listening to Mark Merrin's podcast with Bill Burr the other day in LA. I was driving in LA, which is, yeah. And Bill Burr is talking the same sort of thing. He's good, he had to evacuate because of the fires. He's cool, but like his toaster doesn't work and he's like, fuck. You know? He says, I just say, I say to myself out loud,

you don't have to react to this. You don't have to react to this. I'm like, oh, that's good, Bill. He's a great dude. We do that in how we treat people too, right? So like, you know, you can't talk this way to a stranger because you might get popped. You might get punched in your mouth. Or if someone saw it, you know, you know, you can't talk this way to a stranger because you might get popped. You might get punched in your mouth.

Or if someone saw it, you know you can't do it. But then you will treat people who will put up with you shitty. Obviously we try not to do this. But the point is we are forgiving of strangers. And then I'm like, why am I telling you again not to put your shoes here? Right, you know what I mean?

Sure. Or you'll tell someone like your shoes here? Right. You know what I mean? Sure. Or you'll tell someone like five times something at work, but then if your spouse or whatever says, what? You know, you're like, ah! You know? Et cetera talks about how we rage against the good because we can, because we can get away with it.

And that's obviously, that's precisely who we should be the most patient with and the most tolerant of. And so there's something, I think it's similar. It's like, well, in situations where there's a cost to freaking out, we get over it pretty quick. But when we can be self-indulgent, we're self-indulgent. And there's something self-indulgent about losing

your temper, being rude, being frustrated, where you're just telling yourself that they're going to put up with it. And by the way, they're not. At some point they won't, and then you'll feel horrible and you'll regret it. And so just going like, hey, do I have the luxury here of indulging in whatever emotion? And I think that's, people think stoicism is not having the emotions. No, you have the emotions. You have the emotions. You just decide whether that emotion is going to color your behavior or not.

It's probably the same in recovery where it's like, well, there's a famous phrase that comes from the recovery. We're dealing with a specific emotion. One that I've had issues with is anger. Yeah. It's described as anger is the dubious luxury of normal men. Yes. You can't get away with it. No, I can't. I can't let myself become consumed by rage. You know what's beautiful about the expression that anger is the dubious luxury of normal men?

Seneca says some version of that in his essay on both anger and clemency. He's Ira? Yeah, but his one on clemency is like, look, like a regular person can afford to hold a grudge. A regular person can be petty and vindictive, but a person in a position of responsibility or power or influence, there's greater consequences. Yes. Right? And it falls heavier on other people. It no longer just- Affects you. or power or influence, there's greater consequences.

And it falls heavier on other people. It no longer just- Affects you. Yeah, you know when they say anger is a poison you give to yourself? Well, that's actually not true when you're in a position of leadership or a position of power or influence

because other people bear the consequence. If you, as the head of a band that has a large touring operation, decide to be petty and take your ball and go home. That costs a lot of people a bunch of stuff. Untold people. Yeah.

Just going like, hey, I can't afford to be petty and entitled. I can't afford this shit anymore because people are counting on me. Yes. 100%. And like, that's something that, you know, being in a band, in a successful band, like if we've ever had to cancel a show, it is always, I mean, it's like, you gotta be half dead, right?

I got horrific food poisoning one time in Vegas. Like I could not move. Yeah. The last thing I remember was my tour manager asking me, dude, are you going to have to cancel? I'm like, well, you could wheel me out there in a wheelchair and I could vomit and shit myself on stage. Yeah, we got to cancel.

It was like, it's such a horrifying prospect to me because people have spent money buying tickets. They've spent money on hotels, airplane fares. That's just the audience. They have decided they're gonna come to this thing and they've built their schedule around this. Yeah. And I feel a responsibility to those people. I also feel like, and that's another reason why when I go on stage, I, no matter how tired I am,

I never phone it in. I give it all that I can while I'm there because these people are, it doesn't matter how many people show up either. They've paid good money and taken time out of their schedule to watch you do your thing. You better do your thing to the best that you can. And then beyond them, if we have to cancel, then there's money for promoters. And I- The venue was still booked.

The venue was still booked. Like we employ a lot of people, and God does. This is how they feed their families. It's not a joke. It's the music business. People don't get that. No, it is hard to take care of yourself in those situations because you have, and look, that's what being a leader

or being in a position of responsibility is, is that you bear the cost of it. But yeah, I've had that where I've been like really sick and it's like, I made a commitment, you know? And the tension between taking care of myself and the show must go on is real, you know? And sometimes it's, to me, it's a, it's an, like, what's actually the harder decision? Like, what actually requires more self-discipline or willpower? The one to be like, no, I actually

will harm myself permanently by doing it or whatever, or the show must go on. It's hard. Yeah. Very difficult. Very difficult. Something, you know, we've definitely struggled with, you know. Yeah. Learning how to say no is a tough one. Yeah. Right. Or just to say, hey, yeah, I'll do the tour, but I want to do it reasonably.

Oh, that's something we've been fighting for years now, because a booking agent and a manager love our booking agent, love our manager. They're not the ones playing every night. Their job is to make a profitable tour, not one that is good for your knees 20 years from now. No, no, and my knees are shot, lower back is screwed, jumping around like a monkey.

I think it's funny. I've noticed like bands used to play in like Converse All-Stars. Oh, God. And now they all wear like the oldest man shoes. Hocus. Exactly. Hocus. It mirrors, you know, athletes use to smoke in the locker room.

And now, but I think it's just funny watching them get more comfortable as they go. Yeah. Because there's a sustain... They realize that, oh, being the young person who looks cool, I'd rather be less cool and be able to do this for an extra five years. Yes, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Deciding that you want to do this sustainably, whatever it is that you want to do sustainably. I don't mean environmentally. I mean like, I want to do this for a long time. For a long period. Yeah. Yeah. Suddenly you go, oh, I have to care about what I eat. I have to care about working out. I have to care about not doing drugs and alcohol. All that non-rock and roll stuff. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, longevity isn't yours by right, you earn it. And that's all stuff that as I get older has come into play. Watching the diet, you know, quitting drinking and drugs, actually having to exercise now. Which for guys like me and you, naturally thin, we can skate by for a long time. And then one day you wake up and you're like, oh shit. Yeah, yeah, no, if I wanna be like I was before,

I have to ratchet up certain things and ratchet down certain things Yeah, 100% It's the balance Yeah, and the type of music that you do not that rock and roll was ever supposed to be an old man's game I mean, you know, I hope I die before I get old but at the same time there's something a little different about What the who did versus what you do. Or what, you know, a real heavy, I mean, it's just different vocally, it's different musically. It's different.

The sound, the sound that you're subjecting your body to, the sheer amount of decibels and the bass is more taxing. Yeah, all of it. Metallica playing a stadium show is not the same as the Rolling Stones playing a stadium show. I've never seen the Stones. I think about them a lot though, as like sort of this paradigm of, as you say,

sustainability. Or is it an addiction? Do you ever feel like, why can't you? Like I think, like I'm obviously a huge Iron Maiden fan, but I think it's interesting that Steve Harris has a side project that he tours clubs with. Right, well, see, I actually, what is that? This is something, I think you and Pressfield

were talking about this on the podcast one time. It's either lovely or it's sad. Do you know what I mean? And I don't know him enough. So only his daughter or his spouse could tell you whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. Yeah, that's true. But I would look at it as a musician if he loves playing music. Yeah, sure.

And like, I love playing music and I'm going to do it as long as I can. It may not be with lamb of God when I'm 70 years old, that might be a wee bit much, but I'm gonna be doing music and yeah, I would go out and do a side thing. The Rolling Stones are not out touring still after however many years because they need to. Right. They want to, dude. You love making music.

And I know for me, and you love making music with a specific group of people. But is there something about, and again, I don't know any of these people, so I'm talking about this more generally, but there's something that draws one to the arts, that is the desire for an audience. You know what I mean?

Yes, but there, I think for a long term it's a need to express yourself through a specific, whatever specific facet of the arts it is. You are drawn to that and it feels natural to you. Yeah. Like it feels natural to me to express myself with my band. It's something I would, I've said this a million times, we love our audience. And yes, we make records and make a good living off this and tour the world and all this stuff. But we love making music. We had zero, zero plan for this to become what it is. We just wanted to make some good music

cause it's awesome making music. It's awesome. Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science, to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about. Each week, on redacted, declassified mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories.

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topics, making them far less intimidating and overwhelming, and free you of the need for scripts and tricks. We can do this. Follow Unruffled on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Unruffled ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Well, you mentioned Mark Maron earlier and he talks about this thing that I relate to, or I think it poses an interesting question that it's worth asking as an artist. He said during the pandemic when no one was doing standup

and he wasn't doing standup, and he was just in his house being a person, he was like, maybe I'm all better. Like maybe he's like, I don't need it anymore. Oh, right, right, right. That's what I'm saying. There is, like, I don't need it anymore. Oh, right, right, right. And that's what I'm saying. There is like, obviously I like writing and I like doing books.

You could also zoom out and go clearly though, at some level, there's an element of compulsion here because you can't not do it. The Stoics ask us to be suspicious of anything that we can't not do. And so I'm always fascinated by, okay, you have all the money in the world, you still do play regularly,

but then you're like squeezing it in on nights and weekends, the extra, is there some part of us that you can't stop? And it's not, you go, oh, he loves music, that's why he's performing, that's why he's touring 150 nights a year, and then also touring an extra 50 nights a year. There's a cost to that also, to people other than you. Right. Right.

And so I'm interested in that, the part of us that, not interested, suspicious of the part of us that can't not do the thing. Right. I understand that. I don't think though, honestly, if the dude loves playing music that much, that's what he wants to do.

He's okay with it, let him play music. No, that's what I mean. It's either amazing or it's sad, right? It's like- I'm a optimist, regrettably. I'm gonna go with it's amazing. But see, I wonder if that's cause you love music. But like, if I was describing to you a boxer

who just loves boxing, and he just wants one more fight, you'd be like, bro. There's a difference between getting punched in the head by Muhammad Ali than playing the whatever pub in Birmingham. But the impulse is similar. The love of the thing. Sure, the consequences is highly different. For me, sometimes it's almost been the same, you know?

Smash. You get what I mean. The love of the game can also, at some point, it either curdles or it becomes a compulsion. You can't stop it. And at some point, inevitably, every boxer retires one fight too late. And Tom Brady retired one season too late

per the damage to his family and other things. I think that is an endemic part of that same ego drive passion. This is why the Stokes say passions are dangerous. They can burn you. You love the thing and you love it at a fundamentally illogical, unhealthy level. Mm, I don't, man, I just don't think that comparing music

and sports and things like that, I think it's apples and oranges. Maybe. Like, I mean, maybe the compulsion is the same, but we all have things we're attracted to and maybe it's a matter of the lesser of two evils. I just don't see, like you see like blues legends who played forever. They're old men, you know, down on Beale Street in Memphis. Those people had children and grandchildren.

They had other things. But they were still musicians when they did it. No, but what I'm saying is that there's a cost to going on the road and picking up those dates, right? And there's things that are neglected in the pursuit of that, as lovely as it is. But, is there a cost? This guy has how much money? Yeah.

He has his own tour bus. Maybe his family comes with him. Maybe they were raised on the road. But I even think individually, right? Like there's something about, and this is sounding like I really have some theory that this particular person is a- A miserable, addicted club, addicted-

I'm just looking at him to look at myself, right? I'm looking at all these people to look at myself. Which is, there is there is, there is something in a way that's easier about being on the move and doing like a 100%. Like, like writing, even on its toughest day, is easier and better for me than regular life, because I'm a master of it. Right. You know what I mean? It's a fake universe I've constructed. Yeah. And we live in La La Land. We say that on tour all the time.

This is not the real world. I can feel like if I'm in an argument with my spouse or it's crazy at home or I'm not feeling good about this or that, like I'd be like, I wanna get to the fucking office. That's right. You feel almost like you would crave a drug because you're like, I will feel good doing that.

Yes, yeah, for sure. And so that part of a work addiction is fundamentally rooted in escapism and not feeling what it is to be a person, which is to say uncomfortable and lots of feelings. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Work is, touring is definitely la la land. It's definitely not reality.

We say that all the time. I mean, where else do I go where like, there are people waiting to see me and they're super stoked. Oh my God, it's you. Yeah. You know? And that's the only thing you have to do that day. Yeah. Like, that's one of,

like when I speak, I got one on, I got two tomorrow. It's like, I have to do two things tomorrow. I am exempt from essentially all other responsibilities as a person. And that's nice, that's not real. No. You know what I mean?

Because like, if I get anything else done, if I make my kid breakfast, if I drive him to school, I'm like, people are like, you also did that? You know, like they wanna throw you a fucking parade. You know, they're like, you worked out today too? You know, or whatever. You didn't just roll out of bed, you know? So to be Ryan Holiday.

Yeah, so it's not real, it's not real. Yeah. That's all you have. So that, and there's not real. It's not real. It's all you have. And there's something about the rhythms of being on the road too that are nice and soothing. It used to be way more difficult when I came off the road to readjust to normal life.

Reentry? Yeah, dude, because it's like a schedule and dinners at this time and you're on stage at this time and these people will be stoked to see you and it's gonna be this cathartic sort of physical and emotional workout every night. Yeah, then you come down adrenaline. It's this train and just building, building,

building, building, building, then all of a sudden, bam, it hits a brick wall and you're at home and your girl is like, the lawn needs cutting and you're like, fuck! Like, it's like, ah! And it's like, you just can't, this isn't a hotel, man. Yeah, yeah. Like, you can't just throw your shit all over the place.

No, no, no, no. I'm pretty tidy though. But like, just emotionally, it was very, very strange for a long time to go from 100 to zero in one day, you know, boom. Now it's a lot easier for me. Yeah. I've like, you know, learning to separate, as you're saying, recognizing what's real, what isn't.

Yeah. You know? Yeah, well, I mean, to put this all, I think we were talking about, you know, it's not as bad as being in a Czech prison. But I think that the exercise of a memento mori puts all that stuff in perspective too, right? It does.

Like, hey, this is my only day. This is how we're going to spend it. This is it. Yeah. You know, remember you too shall die. Yeah, you gave me this thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you seen those, I like to look at cemeteries.

I like the cemetery where it shows what the person looks like. Like it's a, instead of being, you know, them is an angel or whatever, it shows like a skeleton. And the idea is like, what I, the expression is, what you are I once was, what I am now you will be. And so they're called skeleton tombs or something. I forget, there's a Latin expression, but the idea is like, instead of the grave representing this peaceful, serene, gentle thing, they want to show the sort of the decomposition and the tragedy and the

decay of it because that's in you also. You are on your way to becoming that very thing. Yeah. Most certainly. It's like Alexander the Great and his mule driver. It's one of my favorite lines in meditation. Yeah, yeah. Both died and both buried in the same ground. They're both fucking worm food, is what he's saying. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Have you been to the catacombs in Paris?

Not in Paris, but I've been to a bunch of different catacombs. Right, yeah. We went last time and got a lot of photos and they had lots of great sayings up there on the walls and different parts. There was a church in Dublin that has a crypt underneath it and you walk in and they have it's because of the temperature and the depth, it perfectly preserved these bodies that were buried in there. Right. And they took, you know, they slid the stone off the coffin

and you can see they're basically these natural mummies. And I was telling my kids this because they didn't believe it's true, but that you used to be able to go in, I went 12 years ago and they let you touch the mummy. Whoa. Like its hand is there and you can rub its finger. Wow.

And so you're touching what you will one day be. And the jolting feeling that you get there and you're like, this person died in the fucking crusades. Not just this guy died in the crusades, but this guy was so abnormally tall that to fit him in this casket, they broke his legs to fold it under it. One size, one size casket. You're like, you're done, man. You don't need to be comfortable in here. Right. Yeah, absolutely. It reminds, there's another quote, it came from a Roman poet, similar to that line from Marcus Aurelius. He says, that line from Marcus Realisticism, in life the world could not contain Alexander's ambition,

but in death a coffin was sufficient. Oh yeah. And so you could wanna be the biggest musician in the world, the biggest whatever in the world. You could be fucking physically imposing and intimidating. And then your ashes are like a fucking coffee cup. Yeah, that's, I write about that in the first chapter too. Kind of like how in considering our own deaths, you know, for some people,

I believe this may be a rude shock to you, but you are no better than the piece of roadkill who you pass by. In death, you're no better than the person you made fun of in high school, all this other stuff. We're all going to be equally dead. Conversely, if you're suffering from an inferiority complex, take comfort in the fact that you will succeed effortlessly at being as perfectly dead as the greatest men and women of history.

The nice way to put it, the more inspirational way to put that is you are as equally alive as the greatest people on the planet. You have as much life in you as the most powerful, richest person in the world. Pleasure feels the same. The air tastes the same. It is what it is. This is all there is. Yeah. This is it, you know. Enjoy it while it's here. I think, yeah, no one is not breathes any better than anyone else. Unless you have asthma, I guess, maybe. Well, we're talking permanent not breathing.

Yes, yes, yes. No, no, right. It's the great equalizer in the end. It's the one prophecy that never fails. Yeah. And once it happens, it's done. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's going to happen to everyone. Yeah. I think that's, do you see that documentary on Netflix about the dude who's trying to, yeah. Like it's interesting some of it, like theoretically what they're trying to do, but you know what I think when I think about guys like that, guys that think they want to live forever, they spend all this money on this longevity shit. One of the emperors, one of the

Roman emperors is walking by there, they're executing some, you know, heinous criminal who's wasted his life being awful. And, you know, the criminal sees him and he says, you know, like, you know, please, please spare me or whatever. And the Emperor says, I didn't know you were even alive. Like he's saying, so you're really alive, are you? That's what he says. Like the point is, your existence, the thing you're begging to be given a second chance at is not that great. And I think about, there's something

fundamentally funny to me about the... That guy's life doesn't seem that amazing. He's not making an argument why his life is so great that he should live forever, or he should get another 50 years because he's gonna put it to such great use. What he's saying is, I'm gonna make my health really good. That's his argument. His argument is my health should entitle me to more years, not the quality of my life is worth preserving.

Like there's never this much, and look, life is life, and I feel like everyone should, is entitled, I think healthcare should be a human right. I think anytime we can improve the longevity of the population as a whole, that is a wonderful blow to strike for justice. So that's not what I mean.

But I think it's funny that the people that are most obsessed with living the longest strike me as pretty miserable people. Yeah. And pretty self-absorbed people. Yes. That I'm not so intrigued by what they're going to do with this extra time because I know the answer is basically just more self-indulgent nonsense.

Yeah. I mean, even... I love vampires. Yeah. I mean, even I love vampires. Yeah. Huge vampire fan and will take my hand at writing a vampire novel one day. Go for it. The depictions of vampires, their immortality. Is a curse.

It's never good. Yeah, no, it's a curse. Right? Yeah. Never good. It's a curse. Yeah. And I, God, I can't imagine. I would not want to live another hundred years. No way. Yeah. Never good. It's a curse. Yeah. And I, God, I can't imagine. I would not want to live another hundred years.

No way. Yeah. No way. Yeah, it's like he sucks his blood from his son or whatever, the guy in the documentary. And it's like, I think it's supposed to go the other direction. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, he's not like, I've decided to put all this time and energy into helping my son live

forever because I just love him so much. Right. I'd be devastated if anything happened to him. to put all this time and energy into helping my son live forever because I just love him so much. I'd be devastated if anything happened to him. He's like, how can I suck the youthful energy out of my boy? Being a parent is supposed to make you shift your priorities into precisely the opposite direction, bud. Yeah. He donated some to his father, some of his plasma, but then it's kind of like

you're taking your son's life. That's what hopefully the presupposition that your son will one day have kids. Is he supposed to just continually drain them? You're breeding youth fountains or whatever. There's a Zen saying grandfather dies, father dies, son dies. This is a happy story. Because that's how it's supposed to go. And this starts to get pretty metaphysical very quickly. But I think the whole point is that there's no point if we don't die. It's supposed to be, that's what creates the urgency and the clarity. An infinite game means you get an infinite number of tries.

Right. And that's not what life is. Life is a finite game. Yeah, 100%. Even take it to like video games with the cheat code. Yeah. And you just live forever. Like, that's no fun.

Well, look, if you were going to live forever, you could have done drugs longer. Why'd you quit at 39? Because I was not living, I was utterly miserable. Right, but the idea that you only have one life to live is the reason you cannot waste any more fucking time. Right? Yeah, that's one thing that I think about

when I find myself growing nihilistic or when I see people who are just utterly cynical about everything and nihilistic. I think cynicism is refuge of the intellectual coward myself. It's like, okay, suppose everything is pointless and meaningless. Why don't we enjoy right now? And I've found that I get the most enjoyment out of trying to maintain a correctly calibrated moral compass and doing the right thing.

So if nothing matters, why be an asshole? Why be an asshole, right? The argument of stoicism is not, hey, if you do this, don't do that, whatever, you're going to go to hell. Right. It's that if you do this or don't do that or whatever, if you sin, your life is hell. Your life is hell, you're living in hell now.

Which we know is real. Yes, the other one might be, but we know this hell is real. Yeah, because we felt it. Yeah, 100%. This was awesome, man, I loved the book. It's great. Thank you so much. You signed it for me?

Absolutely. Sweet. I'll walk you through the bookstore, I got some books for you. Thank you so much. You signed up for me? Absolutely. Sweet. I'll walk you through the bookstore. I got some books for you. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show.

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