The Daily Stoic - Matthew McConaughey On The Art Of Livin’

Episode Date: June 17, 2023

Ryan speaks with Matthew McConaughey in the second of a two-part interview about his new course: Roadtrip – the Highway to More, the importance of being close to the ones you love, the sense of oneness that comes with zooming out your lens, why he is striving to be less impressed and more involved, and more.Matthew McConaughey has been working in Hollywood for over 25 years, appearing in acclaimed films, including Interstellar, A Time to Kill, The Wolf of Wall Street, and Dallas Buyers Club. His work in the latter film won him the 2013 Academy Award for Best Actor. McConaughey also works as a producer and spokesperson, and recently released his first book, the bestselling memoir Greenlights. He also founded and runs the Just Keep Livin Foundation to help kids lead active and healthy lifestyles. You can follow his work on Twitter @McConaughey, Instagram @officiallymcconaughey, and YouTube at Matthew Mcconaughey, and you can find his Roadtrip course at artoflivinevent.com/roadtrip✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoke podcast early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoke. Each weekday, we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stokes. Something to help you live up to those four Stoke virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview stoic philosophers, we explore at length how these stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives

and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend, when you have. Here on the weekend when you have a little bit more space when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal, and most importantly to prepare for what the week ahead may bring. Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. When I had Rick Rubin on a couple of months ago, we ended up talking much longer than I thought, and I split that into two episodes. I felt like it was more bite-sized that way, closer to the idea of what Daily Stoic is. And I think I'm gonna start doing that more on some of these longer episodes.

Someone comes into the studio or we really get into it. I'll split it up into two parts, instead of trying to cram in another guest every week. I think it lets the episodes breathe a little bit. Some, it's the idea of, you know, glasses more, which, as we were talking about last week, it's sort of the theme of today's guests newest launch. You've seen Matthew McHenry in a million movies. You've seen them win Best Actor Awards. You've seen them in commercials.

Maybe you read his book Green Lights, which is great. There's also Green Lights Journal. Maybe some in the news helping pass historic legislation to protect kids and young people from gun violence. It's just a fascinating guy, a character in every sense of the word, but mostly all the good senses of the word. And we had a really in-depth conversation. I brought you the first hour earlier this week. Now I'm bringing the second hour. And if you haven't checked out his new course

Road Trip, The Highway to Mort, very much recommend it. Sky's like a Renaissance manny, right? It's books, he acts, he's an investor, it's a father, political activist, professor at UT, help design the Moody Center. This dude is just, man, living a fascinating life, taking the green lights where they come up. And just someone I'd like to say has become a friend,

although a friend from afar, we have not hung out, we just talk from time to time. And I always enjoy it. And I think that comes off in today's episode. It's one of my favorites. This is part two. Listen to part one. If you haven't, and remember, you can follow him on all social platforms, especially now on YouTube, at Matthew McConaughey. And I'll link to the new course, the art, and I'll link to the new course road trip the highway to more. We get a really good sense of how cool it is in today's episode. Because I went through it, I took the course, found a bunch of awesome stuff to talk about,

which he and I do in this conversation, but I'll link to it in today's show. And it's, or you can just go to artoflivan event.com slash road trip, or if you just Google Matthew McConaughey road trip, it should come up there at the top. Also, I think you'll really like it. And it's always, it's always a treat to get a peek inside this guy's head, because there's not many people thinking or living like he is. And that's why I wanted to have him back on the podcast. You can listen to our episode from way back in late 2020 also.

And you can grab his book, Green Lights, here in the Painted Ports as well. Life can get you down. I'm no stranger to that. When I find things are piling up, I'm struggling to deal with something. Obviously, I use my journal, obviously I turn to stosism, but I also turn to my therapist, which I've had for a long time, and has helped me through a bunch of stuff. And because I'm so busy and I live out to my therapist, which I've had for a long time and has helped me through a bunch of stuff. And because I'm so busy and I live out in the country, I do therapy remote, so I don't have to drive somewhere.

And that's where today's sponsor comes in. Toxbase makes it easy to find a therapist that you like. It's convenient, it's affordable. By doing everything online, Toxbase makes getting the help you want easy and affordable, so why wait? And Toxbase can help with any specific challenge you might be facing. That's why it's the number one online therapy platform with license therapists and over 40 specialties. It's secure and private and in network with most major insurers. As a listener of this podcast, you can get 80 bucks off your first

month with talk space when you go to talkspace.com slash stoic to match with a license therapist today and go to talkspace.com slash stoic to get 80 bucks off your first month and show your support for the daily stoic. That's talkspace.com slash stoic. It's funny, I talked to lots of people and a good chunk of those people haven't been readers for a long time. They've just gotten back into it. And I always love hearing that and they tell me how they fall in love with reading and they're reading more than ever and I go, let me guess, you listen audio books, don't you?

And it's true and almost invariably they listen to them on audible. and they tell me how they fall in love with reading, they're reading more than ever, and I go, let me guess, you listen audio books, don't you? And it's true, and almost invariably, they listen to them on Audible. And that's because Audible offers an incredible selection of audio books across every genre from best sellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, and of course, ancient philosophy, all my books are available on audio,

read by me for the most part. Audible lets you enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app, you'll always find the best of what you love or something new to discover. And as an Audible member, you get to choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog, including the latest best sellers and new releases. You'll discover thousands of titles from popular favorites, exclusive new series, exciting new voices in audio. You can check out Stillness is the key, the daily dad I just recorded. So that's up on Audible now. Coming up on the 10-year anniversary of the obstacle is the way audiobooks, so all those are available and new members can try Audible

for free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash daily stoke or text daily stoke to 500-500. That's audible.com slash daily stoke or text daily stoke to 500-500. What I think is interesting though, you just said there's parenting moments that you're glad you're there for, right? And you listed some, they asked you a question, they're playing, they're phone-robble about something, you may listed a bunch of stuff. But you didn't pick any six flags moments, right? Those are free moments, they're ordinary moments, they don't require any scheduling,

it's just regular life. What Jerry Seinfeld calls garbage time. Yeah. Also, it's not just with children, but with friends and lovers, parents, parents, a being just in the same room in the same house. Yeah. Passing by each other without saying a word.

Yeah. But no one you're there. I, I, I, I look, I selfishly have my office very close to my house, like real close. I can't help it. I like to get just to faint ambionic sound of my kids laughing or my, my, the home life happening right over there, just in your shot. Just, just, just, for me, for too far away from it, I'm kind of, look at, you know what I mean? I'm looking, I'm kind of, you know, now mean? I'm looking, I'm kinda, you know?

Now, you know, and then do I go, hey, when they come in the door, like we started a conversation, I'm like, someone comes and look for the iPad, do I go like, oh, does it go through my head? Like, remember I told you last night, I was gonna need this today to end when I take the iPad. Yeah, it does, got all those things, but I loved it.

Come in, it comes in and looks for me, great. I mean, come in, come in, and look for him. Like, great. Being a, being a round just for look, a smile, a walk by an arm around, a kiss on the forehead. Hey, I'm making so and so for lunch. You want any? Oh, that's the best. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you want me to set bread? Oh, yeah. Butter on the ball. When they ask you to get them stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you read The Boy, The Fox, The Horse, and The Mole? Have you read that kid's book?

No. Oh, it's incredible. I'll send it to you. I'd carry it in the bookstore. It's amazing. It's by this guy, Charlie McAsy uses brilliant illustrator. But there's this line in it. And the kid says something like, sometimes I find it hard to say I love you.

So I just say I'm glad we're all together. That's it right there. Same room, you can hear them spending time together, even if they're on the iPad, you know, we're supposed to feel guilty that they're on their screen time. I don't give a shim. I'm just glad we're all in the same way. We're here yet. And then, you know, this is when I'm enjoying recently. So our kids are close enough where the boys compete, all right? Yeah. So there's a little and silly competition.

So like anything you do is like, ah, I'm gonna be little it and then, you know, and oh, that's not cool, but but to hear my Boys go have a similar game that they play together on an iPad and to hear their laughter Yeah, and they're using the voices and talk or and then talk about or remember that time Did you do the thing and hear them going all go over down the side, going, yes! Mm-hmm. And sometimes that is on. Sure.

On iPad or sometimes that is on a video game. And, you know, but it's, it's, I've seen that also. If that's after the sun went down, I've seen that lead to, oh, the youngest for the first time in a while, and enjoyed catching the pass of the ball from his brother. Yes. And for the past few months, he didn't, he catch it from me, didn't want to catch it from

big bro though. Yeah. Because he's throwing it. I don't want to catch his bass But now because that time they had last night where they laughed and came together Some music or that game now first thing in the morning there out there throwing passes of whatever ball it is in the backyard And little bro who was pushing everything big bro is doing away is now Giving a hundred percent dive in for catches and ganging on good pass Once to catch that ball

four brother four big brother Doesn't want to drop one Four big brother. That's beautiful to see Well speaking speaking of road trips, right? some of the best things we have done as a family have come from things or places that my son has heard about in a YouTube video, right? You watch some video of somebody snowboarding down a sand dune, right? He didn't know that was a thing you could do. And I was like, let's see if there's any of those in Texas.

And there is, in Monohans, right? Monohans stay park. So we took an eight hour road trip together and we didn't snowboard, we went down in a sled. But the idea is you can learn about things through the screen, that's my life, by the way. It would be weird if I was like anti-screen. I've been learning about the world through my computer

since I was a teenager, opened up so many things. He learns about something and then what you do, you take the green light when they're open or interested in something and you say, I can help you see that in person. Let me take the neck. Let's take this up a notch. Let's do this. Let's get in the camper and we'll go there. Yes. There's a great way to use the tool and access of information in place is the virtual access to then go... Let's go see it in reality. Let's go experience it in reality.

Now, I want to pivot here for a second on a note on that, because I'm loving our discussion on the assets of it, and assets of digital and medium, et cetera. And I agree with you. I'd be just old fashioned nostalgic fool to be sitting here going like, oh, I don't know what everyone would be that God. I'm not that God. But what about, I have a fear when you see that,

when we see that our children and myself, I'm guilty of it, I see that sand dude in the monohan. And getting the car on, we go eight hours to go do it. And we're so excited. And the reality is he's let down. The hill wasn't as steep. The dingos fast as it looked like they were going on the video. The sand's too hot. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, happen sometimes. And it's a larger fear of mine, almost

own more existential level of me, reality's a bit of an underdog right now. But not just not just the beautiful sites, right? I think about how much beauty we take for granted all around us, right? Like, you know, you go, oh, I can't wait to watch the sunset over the ocean in Hawaii. But the sunset in Austin is pretty good too, you know, and how often do I make the time to see it? Or another road trip we went out to Big Bend, you know, you're looking at the stars. They're obviously brighter and bigger there because there's less light pollution.

But I was taking out the trash last night and I looked up and I was like, fuck, it's pretty good at my house too. I can look at this every single night, but I get to strap too busy looking at the ground or at my phone. And so I think it's a general practice you gotta have to go like, what is magical and amazing and what am I taking for granted about this moment about this environment?

You know, like a poet, a poet doesn't write about roses and sunsets all the time. What they find the ability to do is to find beauty in the mundane and the ordinary. And I think that's the skill you want to cultivate. So you'd be saying, hey, Mcconnaughey, no reality is not an underdog. It's just what we're looking at.

What we're seeing. Yeah. What's reality? What do you see in it? What do you see in it? Well, you know, I was just telling this story recently. You know the movie Gladiator, one of the greatest movies of all time. And I don't know why it didn't hit me until I was rewatching it, but the opening scene

in Gladiator, right, comment, sorry, Maximus is standing there, and it's cold. You can see the steam coming off the ground. He looks at this branch, a bird lands on it. He touches the wheat bending low under its own weight to borrow a phrase from Mark's Relius and Stoics. It's this beautiful scene, right? You think it's beautiful, and then it zooms out just a little bit, and you realize he's on the front.

They're about to fight this terrible battle in this nasty, violent place. And to me, I love that idea. Think about movies as a metaphor here. You choose the lens, right? The zoomed-in lens, it's beautiful. The zoomed out lens, it's not beautiful. But sometimes it's the opposite. Sometimes you're too zoomed in

and you got to zoom way out and you see the beauty. It's all about the lens and the angle of the camera that we decide to look at at the world. Hey man, and our aperture. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's, I love that. I would say that myself and most of us, if we're gonna say which one of those schools should we start on, would be, I think it'd be most healthy for us

to move forward with wider lenses. Right now, then close to the lens. with wider lenses. Right now, then close to the list. Yeah. Um, um, you know, my brother, I got a brother rooster. He got the cataract surgery and forget what it was on his eyes. And he hates it. He hates it.

I'm like, why? He goes, man, I miss all the fuzzy edges, man. Get all these damn details, man. It's like, oh, I got anxiety, he's I never had before. Like, yes, sometimes, man. Sometimes that 8K, we're talking about that high diff in the Zoom close up on 120 lens. We're like, uh-oh, oh geez. You know, I didn't want to see that.

You know, but we also, in the variant version of head down, tighter lens. Yeah. Oh, wow. Look outside. The wider lens, the macro lens can just, at least get, relax us, you know, and help us see, see differently. The one thing that's almost certain in the wider shot is that you are smaller. Right? It shrinks you down proportionally, right? This is, you know, the shot of the of the earth from space, the blue marble shot. Every astronaut has spoken about how the most life changing psychedelic understanding overtakes you when you look at earth from a distance and you see that everything is connected

Everything touches each other everything is small Not none of the things that you think matter actually matter and the things you have been putting off Feel so urgent and important and the oneness of everything is there that is One of my posters for selfish right there. That's what I'm getting at. That's what I'm working to define and explain and understand it right there. You just said it. And you singularity, self-ish in all those things where, you know, as a, there's a, that view, that point of view, does two things. And if you're a believer and some would call that, oh, I'm a, the tiniest of a speck in God's palm. Yeah.

There's, you can either be, and then with that comes humility. And you can go for, I know for a long time in my life, that feeling made me feel like less. Huh. That made me, made my shoulders crunch over, made me lower my head, lose confidence, feel like, oh, then what's it all for? But something, I don't know, something I got spiritually, 20 years ago or so,

hit me like, obviously, that felt quite empowered. Selfishly with that, yeah, blue dot, with that speck and then, ah, it took pressure off. Oh, beautiful. Oh, my gosh. Yes, that's right, nothing that I do matters. Oh, that's why it all matters.

That, thank you. Now, I'm, now I'm, I've come alive. More of me is coming out. Yes. Oh, this little blip of time, Miranda. So it's a spec. Who cares? Yes.

That's why it matters so much more. And to feel that way. And not after a lot of intellectually feel that way, but to understand, to actually feel that way is a magic place to be if we, when we can. Yeah, Stoke philosopher called that the oceanic feeling. So the paradox of it is that you feel very small, but you also feel part of something very big.

And that's the paradox and the beauty and the the overwhelmingness of it is that you are humbled and elevated at the same time. Yeah, yeah, humbled and elevated at the same time. Well, look, I wanted, I wanted to ask you a couple questions about the course because I loved it. You, you are like the king of the one liners, right? The sort of little, almost Zencomans, little paradoxes of your own. I wanted to riffs on some of them with me, with you. One of my favorites is you said, I want to be less impressed and more involved. What does that mean? I love that one.

I'm kind of glad I can laugh when you said that. So, that's something that came to me soon after my dad passed away and left this life. I was finding career in Hollywood. I was so happy to be there, or at least so thankful. This is that line of what we got with gratitude that an over exaggeration of it, or a reliance on it can become a debit.

I had reverence for where I was, people. Wow. Possibly, start them, successful actor, fame, whoa. And to the extent, and I was just telling, I had this conversation with one of the Cohen brothers. And I've always loved the Cohen brothers. And I was just telling Joel this story the other day. It's like, you know, I had a meeting with you

and your brother and John Macavitch, early in my career, he's like, oh, you did. I was like, oh, yeah, remember that? I go, probably easy to forget because I was an absolute dud in that meeting. I came in that meeting so with such reverence for you and your brother and my friends, and I was at the table.

And I mean, the natural gap to enter the conversations, I was like, I'm afraid to put my foot in my mouth, could no rhythm, didn't have the confidence. I was just, and then when they did say, so what do you think Matthew Matthew? I gave like a stock fricking chat, GBT answer, or something like this, a stock. It was not within the moment. It was like, it was boring.

Not, and I walk away, I blew it. Well, I blew it, so I wasn't involved. I was so impressed with being there. And so around that time, and with the courage and clarity and sobriety that you get when you lose a loved one, like my father just moved on, the world comes flat. Things that you, I revered. Wow.

Lowered inward eye level. I was like, oh, that's mortal. I'm in that. I'm engaging in that. I'm gonna be myself in that. I'm gonna listen, and I'm gonna reciprocate that. I'm gonna listen and I'm gonna reciprocate back and forth with the present moment to watch him front of me.

At the same time, things that I looked down upon, things that I was patronizing and hanging on, that's not worthy. Rose up. And I was like, oh, I'm on, I'm eye to eye with that. That's human. That's real. Don't you dare judge that, McConaughey.

Uh-uh. You put that down, don't you be little of that. Look that in the eye, engage with that, quit being such a whoos. And that's where that came to me in a dream one night, and I'm gonna not carve it in a tree, and I know exactly the tree at the end of where it is in Santa Monica, less impressed, more involved. And it comes from, it's great to have gratitude,

it's great to have, we need to have respect. But we have to be more than just happy to be here. Yeah. If I have such a reverence for you, if I'm so impressed with talking to Ryan Holliday today right now, my gosh, man. This last hour we've talked would have been a hell of a lot more boring if you didn't find a boring.

It would have just, it had been stuck. I wouldn't have been here. I'd have been a hell of a lot more boring if you didn't find a boring it would have just it Have been stock. I would have I wouldn't have been here I'd have been like listening to what you say and then trying to go follow up and add a little thing on to what you said and go Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Conversation kind of boring. We didn't have dynamic. It wouldn't have been real I wouldn't really been myself because I've been so impressed. I would have been not been involved I wouldn't really been myself because I've been so impressed. I would have been involved. So going forward with respect and gratitude, but not such a reverence for mortality and

mortal things as to not being gazed with them to be able to give more of ourselves to. So we have to be less impressed and more involved to give more of ourselves to our life, to our relationships, to challenges in front of us our life, to our relationships, to challenges in front of us, to pleasures and promises and wins and losses. Be there with them. They'll be impressed. They'll be so impressed with them. It's with the mortal.

I love that. It's the idea of like, if not me, then who? Right? Like, why should, oh, I'm just as good as any of these people. Why can't I be involved? Why can't I do it? Yep. All right, so what is majoring in the miners mean? Majoring in the miners. Oh, well, I think this comes from something the course I was talking about balance. I think that's the section it was in. Yeah.

Um, man, it has to do a lot of it. Get out in the weeds, getting caught up in things that don't matter. Yeah, well, it's also part of, in the course about defining more of what we value, more value. And we have to measure, well look, I have a lot of hobbies that I'm really spinning about, and not really fair dynamic amount of my day,

too much of my day on, and less on my career. And my skin in too much time on the miners, and not majoring, am I majoring too much in my miners? Am I, for me, like in my life, I had, it was around, I don't know, somewhere in the late 90s. I got a phone call from my office where I had a bad ass office, production office, and Venice at a staff of six, paying the rent,

paying the salaries, and I'm in Texas, my phone rings, back when the phones were not our mobile device, but the number would come up. As it did on my phone number, I see it's from my office. I reached out to pick up the phone and my hand stopped. And I remember looking at the phone and then looking at my hand going, why'd your hand stop mid-grab? Yeah. And I went, cause I don't wanna pick up the call from my office.

And then I went, and I let it ring out, and I went, you don't wanna pick up the phone call from your office from one of your employees that you're paying, from the office and the is that you're paying the rent for, what are you doing? What, that doesn't make sense. Yeah. And I let that phone ring out,

and as it did, I picked the phone back up, dialed my lawyer and said, I wanna shut down, I'm music label, and I wanna shut down my production office. I wanna pay a solid severance to everybody, but I want to be, I want to be, work on my charity, work on my family, and I want to be an actor for hire. And so, what that did was, I had like music label,

I had movie development, I had a couple other things that I was kind of doing, I had movie development, I had a couple other things, I was kind of doing minors. Little kids. And so I had like eight proverbial campfires on my desk every morning, including, my charity, including my acting career. They were all campfires. So what I did is I got rid of about five of the campfires

and I was left with The three things that were most important to me and those three campfires turned into Bond fires, so I majored in my majors and I got rid of five minors That I was majoring in trying to major in and I was kind of making C pluses in everything. And when I got rid of five classes and concentrated on the three that I really wanted, I started making eight. Major to my majors, quit major to my minors, and got rid of them.

Do less better basically. Do yes. Yes. I got more after I, when I got, when I had less things that I said that, look, I only got, we have this conversation with my, talk about parenting again. I got teenagers coming I, when I got, when I've had less things that I said that, look, I only got, and we have this conversation with my, talk about parenting again. I got teenagers coming up, their life's starting to get big.

They're starting to have, well, I wanna do this, but I also got this thing, I was like, yeah, 24 hours in the day, they ain't given any more. For the first time, you're starting to have to go, there's a consequence here. I can only do this or this. Yeah. How do we balance that?

You're gonna have to, because you can't do it all up until, up until a couple of years ago, for my kids, I was like, you can do it all. Sure. When you want to, and now things are starting to overlap,

and interest are starting to overlap. So we're going, don't have to have the answer right now, but you're gonna have to start measuring, which one do you want to give time to? Ah, the Bahamas. What if you could live in a penthouse above the crystal clear ocean working during the day and partying at night with your best friends and have it be 100% paid for? FTX Founder's Sam Bankman Freed lived that dream life, but it was all funded with other

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Well, there's an arrogance to it too, right? It's like how many people are killing themselves to be great at the thing you're trying to major in. Me, it's being a writer, you it's being an actor, right? It's one of the most competitive industries in the world and to do it at a high level demands so much of a person. And then here we can find ourselves going, yeah, I can do that with 30% focus. Yeah, I can do that while I'm multitasking. I can do that while I don't have enough time to sleep while my family life is disrupt. I can, I can half ask that and be great. That's how good I am, you know.

And maybe for a short period, maybe if every condition is favorable, maybe while your metabolism is good or whatever, but there comes a time where you go, you got to go, hey, if I want to be world class at this thing, I got to have a world class commitment to it too. Yeah. Yeah, and look, you know, part of the slippery slope is we pull it off sometimes when we're working on reserve. We pull it off and you look very good. Yeah, sure. That was just as good as when you spent twice as much time on that, bro. We pull it off sometimes when you go, yeah, I can compartmentalize. We pull it off sometimes when we go. Yeah, compartmentalized.

Yeah, I'm here. Just second. Yeah, okay, I'll be right there. Where do you say we've got 10 minutes? Great. Let me check out into the rest of my world and re-enter. But it starts to leak. It's a fine line right there,

where that doesn't start to leak because that 10 minute break, that compartmentalization starts to bleed over into the major, into what we're really majoring in. Yeah. And especially if we're succeeding and you got people going, it was great. You're going, buzz? Yeah.

Great, okay. Because I needed you to tell me that because I got a whole bunch of shit I'm doing. I think it was good. I connected the dots, but you're telling me it was great. Great, thank you. Okay, that's where you start to get a little outside and it's not a singular feeling that you know.

You know. You know. And you know what else got to tell you know, you know, you know. And you know what else gotta tell you know. Yes, yes. That is exactly what I wanted to do. And if it's not what I wanted to do, I was relaxed enough to be so present that it became something better and more true

than what I wanted to do. Yes. And without permission, without approval, that's, I think when it's, when it's, when it's wearing the world class section. And who knows how much better it could have been, right? That's the thing you can't measure, right? The opportunity costs, the invisible graveyard

of that have been 5% better, 10% better, could have been transformatively better, 10% better, could have been transformative better, transcendently better, but you'll never know because you don't get a, you don't have anything to compare it to. The, look, the assets are always invisible. The debits are sometimes very apparent. In most things, but the assets are almost always invisible to measure. I don't know, if I go to do world press for weeks, months, and the movie comes out, and it to hit.

Do myself and everybody around and she'll go, you know, because you did all that press, that really was a big part of it. Yeah. Yeah, we all say that. We don't know. If I do no press and the movies are hit, you go see, but then you go,

I think what it would have done if you had done press could have done even better. Or you don't do press and then it comes out and it's a bomb. Or you do all the world press and it's still a bomb. You're like, so you sublimated a little bit and you give yourself and it's used to go well, it only opened at eight, we thought it was gonna open at 16.

Jesus, I wouldn't have done that press, I'm not open at six. So I mean, I always, I think you try and measure it to the upside. Or, or, I mean, to me, the more interesting variable is the, the next role you were doing, how was it impacted? The prep you could have done, the headspace you could have gotten into that you didn't do because you were out doing extra press for the last thing, right? Like, I think it's like, hey, I hey, I'm doing speaking, I'm doing media,

I'm doing all this cool stuff. What I'm not doing is reading, what I'm not doing, is thinking, what I'm not doing is growing. Yeah, I'm not doing the stuff that actually adds up to the finished product later on, but the cause and effect is so much less measurable. Well, it goes back to what you were saying earlier, what you're working on this year,

just the doing of an F the result. And just dispatch, dispatch, true stuff for you, and land where it lands. And you might be right on it. I mean, there's versions of saying, what do you mean press? What do you mean package? What do you mean market?

I just do and dispatch. And people come to it, come to it, the gum to it. I mean, there's purity in that too. We're going, I put it out, it's true. I didn't need it to reciprocate and tell me, hey, we approve. I'm just dispatching. Trust me, I know I've had successes.

I've told you that story, I think, and the work we did in Dallas Fire's Club. Jared let on, I met on the last day of set when the last scene was done, and they yelled, cut, that's a film rap. We went, hey, how you doing? Matthew said, Jared, and people go, what do you mean that's when you met?

We talked the entire time, but he was always talking me through the lens of his character, Rayon. And I was talking to the lens of Ron Woodruff. He was always stealing shit from me like, Rayon would do to me. And we were kind of through that lens. It was fun. Yeah.

And we didn't want to break that wall. Now, what did that mean? We were so head down, just doing the act short, we never got objective to go, oh, hey, I think we're doing pretty good. There was never, you never got out. You never got out.

Sure, say, you know, and we got incredible results from that and did that, did our way of working have something to do with those results? I gotta believe it did. And the fact that you were not running a record label while you were doing that has an invisible contribution too. Hunter, I have to look in the successful life I need right now in the big life I've got, family and friends and careers

and these and this and that and the other and the way I like to test myself to have different categories going on in my life, I'm about to go do an acting job now, and I, the pressure I'm putting on myself now is to really make this an absolute, one singular self-obsessed vacation, where when I go to set, that's it. I'm on set and that's my world until it's time to leave that day. And I'll take that little exit out of that world

to see my kids and family and have a meal and talk about the day and sleep on it and then come back in. But boy, I'm putting the pressure myself to go, give yourself that 12 hours, 12 to 14 hours every day for that to be your singular obsession. You've earned that vacation and you'll do your best work. That'd be very selfish of you and you, and you, and you, and, and, and, and we'll see.

You know, because now I'm, you know, I'm, I'm preparing really well. I'm feeling confident. I've got butterflies as well, but I'm feeling I'm preparing pretty well, and you gotta watch that while I'm so prepared, dude, I can handle what else you can. Yeah, I'll take that meeting. Come on over. Yeah, come on out to the set. Yeah.

Yeah, I want you. It's disciplined. It takes so much discipline. Yeah. Yeah. So you talk about stress in the course also. You basically said what I took to me that not all stress is created equal, right? People are like, I've got to get rid of this stress.

Some stress is good. Yes. Stress is gotten a bad rap, man. We threw, we threw, we threw stress over there as the status called boogeyman. I mean, we may stress the bad guy out of the status called boogeyman. I mean, we've made stress to bad guy out of the bad out of the gate. Yeah, I mean, the first off stress means you give it, Dan. Bravo. Sure.

I mean, we could all use a little more of that. Given it, Dan. Sure. You got any ambition for self-improvement or career or fatherhood or parenthood or being a better friend or being better healthier, you're reaching into chaotic, you're dipping the leg over into chaos to try and make some order and evolve. Sure. Get better, improve, stressful, supposed to be. This is how you grow. Sure. Get better, prove, stressful. Supposed to be.

This is how you grow. Amen. So, we've seen to throw and everything to stress. And call it stress, one thing is I think we do wrongly, but two, to say stress is bad. All stress is bad is the second thing I think we do wrong. I was listening to this NPR and this child's psychologists had gone on and he said, look, you talked to children and teenagers, and even younger these days, and he said, what's

the biggest challenge in life that goes stress? And he go, what do you mean stress? Stress of what? And they're l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l- I don't have as cool as shoes as Bobby. I'm not as good at this sport as Jenny. And he was like, well, that's not actually stress. That's envy. And when the children went envy. Oh, they all of a sudden felt like, oh, I can deal with that. I can deal with envy.

I just felt, I felt drown. I was drowning under what I was calling stress. But to call it what it really is became a different thing and gave stress a break. And they were able to deal. Sure. The second half of that is, again, we were talking about earlier just a minute ago,

that there's a lot of good stress we have. Yeah, you're supposed to have it. Again, we were told about earlier just a minute ago that there's a lot of good stress we have. Yeah. You're supposed to have it. And then there's some things you don't need to be stressed about. One of the expressions that I heard that was life changing for me. Again, it's a little privilege, but they said, if money can fix the problem, you don't have a problem, right? So a lot of times we're stressed about things that we could easily solve. We're just

being cheap or we're being lazy or you know whatever. I remember I was talking to a friend during the pandemic. If money can fix the problem, you don't have a problem. You just have a bill you have to pay. That's tremendous. I'm sorry. No, no, I remember I was talking to a friend of mine, a very successful friend of mine. And he was like, this is during the pandemic, he was like, you know, do you wear a mask when you go to the grocery store or whatever? And I was like, why are you going to the grocery store? Like you can get this

shit delivered at this point. Like it's, it's 2022 or one or whatever it was. Like you are, you are stressing about a thing that is way below your pay grade at this point. And you could eliminate a lot of that stress by automation or outsourcing or whatever. That's so iron-made. That is tremendous. Oh, yeah, I hear you. I hear you. I hear you.

Yeah. There's some validity to that for sure. There are, look. You know, if, if, if, if, if, if, what, there are places where you, where I would say, if you got, if you got courage, then stress is not the problem. If you're willing to work at it, then stress is not the problem. If you, if you, I'm willing to forgive, then stress is not the problem. I mean, there's a lot of different values that if we leaned

into more, stress wouldn't become the problem. They become... No, here's a great example of it, right? If you are confident in your ability as an actor and you have a strong sense of your worth as a human being, why should an audition stress you out? You either get the job or you don't. It doesn't change your value as a human being, right? Like people ask me, when I go on stage, if I have stage fright, and I go, not really, I mean, I know, I know I know what I'm talking about. And I'm never going to see these mean, I know, I know I know what I'm talking about. And I'm never going to see these people again. The worst case scenario here is that it doesn't go well, which is not that bad of a scenario. I still get paid, you know.

This is some of the funniest shit I've ever heard you say. This is great. And I mean that in a very complimentary way. I hear you, look, and you can tab, I know I tab this onto the end of my list of things why I shouldn't be able to stress in situations like that. I always remind myself, and you're in, you're gonna die. Yes.

So it's a lot. Yes. Now, let me ask you this though, because I think that I know I had to wrestle with this in my own life, and I think it's fair to say, I've seen other people wrestle with this. That let's go the op, let's look at the end, the reflection of that.

Sure. You tell some of us at sometimes in our lives, hey, we'll stress about that. Sure. You tell some of us at sometimes in our lives, Hey, we'll stress about that. We say, fuck it and like get sloppy. Sure. And irresponsible and like, you know, just shit on the whole thing. And you're like, no, well, well, well, okay, you needed some guardrails, you needed a pressure test, you needed some stress, you just, I didn't tell you to just say, fuck it. There's a difference.

Yes, yes, the boxer Floyd Patterson was talking about this once. He was fighting to defend his title against In Mar. Johansson. And he gets in the ring and he goes, I wasn't afraid. And he's like, that's why I lost. He didn't, he was too confident. He was too calm. And he had ignored the very real possibility that he could lose and that this was a matter of life and death, right?

You need some stress. You need gravity pulling on you, you know? Or yeah, you become untethered or complacent. If the body is just laying in bed, the muscle's atrophy, right? You need stress and resistance and tension to stay at peak shape. What is so, so let's talk about some things

that we stress about though, that we are really just bullshit, we shouldn't stress about them. I mean, you gave a good list of, hey, I'm going out there. I know what I'm talking about. I mean, what's worth things gonna happen, you know, and you're not gonna be irresponsible with that. You're still going to prepare. You're still going to be on, try to be on point. But at the end of the day, you're like, what's the big deal? It's like, you can just not go well. Yeah. But look at the stress we have more in the present day, and let's go back to even kids

and adults. Sure. Or approval. Again, quantity versus quality. I want more approval. It means more likes. Mm-hmm. Okay. From those, from the strangers, or from the people that you know and you really care about. Um, I mean, you see that you see people dispatched,

and I don't, and I want to say it's not just kids, and I want to be clear about that, because we do it as adults. We dispatched something into the world and use it, even with the social media and the response defines our identity and our mood and our attitude and our approach the entire day. If not weak. And that's not a, at least, that's not a healthy, constructive or even truthful thing to stress about. Yeah. Yeah. It is because it's rewarded, because the higher number is rewarded.

You do get the gold medal. You do get paid if you do have more quantity wise. So I understand where the stress is coming from. But it's a, it's a mirage. I should. No, you're right. Like, I think about it as a parent, for instance, if I didn't know what other parents are doing, or what other parents thought about this,

what I care about it at all, what I feel insecure, what I feel like I wasn't doing a good job. Or as a writer, if I didn't know what so and so just sold, or how much they got paid, or what their publisher was putting up from a marketing budget, would I be happy with what I have? Almost certainly, right? This is beyond my dreams that I ever could have accomplished as a writer, especially given what I write about. So so much of our stress and our insecurities, I feel like are rooted in the comparisons we're making

which we can tune out. And even if we can't we should remind ourselves Hey, maybe they're lying, you know, yeah, you know, I think about I think about things that have been announced about me How many copies I've sold or how much money I made or whether I did this or that and I go that wasn't right That was inflated by 20% or 30% or whatever it was right And I go okay, so when I see somebody else's thing that makes me feel insecure, let's just, let's give a little haircut to it. And it's probably closer to the ballpark

of if I am gonna compare myself, let's make sure we're dealing with real numbers here. Let's not compare ourselves against the idyllic Instagram image of what our friends look like, but hey, actually, they're in two weeks there about to get divorced. So maybe you don't need to feel so. You don't need to be comparing your marriage against theirs. So you're not saying, hey, it's false math. You're just saying, that's not the math that I measure myself by.

That's why that's a lie for me. We have to individually go, what do we value? Yes. What matters? What quantity equals quality for us? And that is my measurement. And yeah, it's not as high of a number as over here, but those numbers are not anything inflated.

For me though, they're just alive. It's not my measurement of what. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, what are you trying to do? What kind of life are you having to have? I mean, I think about your idea here of a road trip.

If you don't know where you're trying to go, right? Your road trip is probably gonna run into some problem. I'm not saying there isn't anything about figuring it out as you go and being open to spontaneous changes and whatever, but like, you got to have some sense of where you're trying to get end up. End up. This is great image. Senika says, he says, happiness is having a sense of the path that you are on. And he says, not being distracted by the paths that crisscross yours, especially the footprints of those who are hopelessly lost. You know, if you know where you're going, if you have a sense of the direction you've got

a North Star, you can just motor on your way. And some people are going gonna be faster than you, some people are gonna be taking off ramps that you might wonder about, but you know that's not what you have to be focused on. You have to go in the direction that you set out to go in, and that's tranquility and happiness and peace right there. Mm.

Yeah, I, you know, I've never heard that cynica quote, but that's what I, in my travels, that's what I, a similar thing I've gotten to understand. And from communities and people, from billionaires to people who didn't have electricity and tribes and their world countries, seems like whatever definition of happiness is how is having something to look forward Which is a version of what you did Values having values that you are oriented around and you're you're gonna, you know said it earlier You got a plan is to be present Yeah, I know I don't have have something I'm looking forward to,

and so a place I wanna get to, I don't know how to be present. I'm looking over, I'm like, huh, what'd you say? You know, I don't know how to take a vacation, you know, if I don't have that. And trust that one at a time with that big picture in mind is how I will get there. Sure. That mile marker one at a time.

Yes. Give me to the final destination, but keep that big in mind. Because if you stare at that, you trip along the way or you're running a gas because you never looked at the gauge, right? Yeah. But at the same time, you got it up there, now be down and mind tend to your business and behave and do what it is that you,

what's in front of you at the time. I do like the leniency of letting yourself, let magic happen and find magic with the exits off of our highway toward our direction. And the basic sort of kindergarten way that I try to scale my perspective when I do this, it seems to work better than what I don't. Hey, just pick out North, South, East, West. Just go that direction. In Pretend you're high, you always got 16 lanes.

You can get all the way on the left lane and be doing 120 with barefoot out the window and cruise happy for you. You can swing it all the way back to the far right lane and be cruising it maybe 30 miles an hour and in the 70 just because you need to take some time over here and put it at 10 and 2 and get your shit together. Yeah, you know, you may even pull over and have to do a little maintenance. God, definitely not have to pull off and get some brief fuel sometimes. Get off that feeder or go ahead. And venture off.

Let your nose lead you, let your ears take you. Hear the sounding music and follow, and go turn that corner down that, where that highway exits off and turns it to a two-laner, turns it to a black top, turns it to a dirt road, and come across a shin dig that you're like, ah, look what I found. Yeah, sure.

Just don't you turn. Don't, don't, don't go back, don't go back cause you're gonna get out there and go, oh I'm far from home. Oh, I'm getting cold feet. I think I'm going far enough. No, keep going. Keep going.

I think what we do most of us, myself included is turn back to quit. Yeah well Is that is that I think I've talked about before that Icarus and reverse. Oh, it's getting hot wings are gonna melt That trigger goes off in us when it's still like 45 degrees Fahrenheit It wings ain't close to mountain, bro. Can you think close to the sun? Go.

Yeah. Keep going. Do your maintenance along the way. Trust that you're headed in the right directs. Trust in that north, south, east or west star. And like I said, left lane, one, twenty, fine. Right lane, 35, pull over to some maintenance. Refuel, take a feeder road exit exit get off to get off but just

don't turn around and pull the parachute and head home. Yeah or what you thought was home because it's actually not home anymore. Sure. Yeah and you got to be open. You don't know I can't imagine that your plan last year involved you lobbying both parties of Congress in the light of a terrible tragedy. You helping pass very significant and I think groundbreaking legislation that hopefully we'll have some serious impact. That wasn't an off ramp that you had planned,

but you had the resources, because you weren't so bogged down, and you had the values to be able to go, this is something I gotta stop off and do. Yes, that was not in the plan though, you're right. That was a reaction to life happening, and having the resources to go. We're pulling out of the driveway.

Let's go down there,ues, we know we need, we believe we can go down and give some value to the situation at least to maybe hope we help stabilize some things in the chaos. And then I, you know, in the wild things with You know, one of the wild things with those sort of reactions in life. And I wrote about this in an Esquire article back when, but, and I've done a, you pull out the driveway. And it's that you don't have a return ticket. You can't plan for that either, though. That's what's scary and awesome about those,

and can be magical and devastating. And it's just the risk you're taking. You pull on it, it's a one way ticket. Yeah. And that's been something that's been, you know, somewhat about challenge and struggle for Camilla and I sense. That could have easily, in some ways, still could, become a full-time, single-error obsession, you know? Sure.

I tell you what, I tell you what, what challenge that I did not foresee from that. To revisit it? It's probably I won't be able to talk much longer about it here. To revisit it. It gets heavy. Is it? Gets... Heavy? Oh.

Yeah. And dark and sad. Yesterday was like a tough day, especially for Kayla. Dan O'Brien. Yeah. And we both find ourselves really measuring our words when we put a word out. Because it feels sacred and we don't want to trespass.

Don't want to speak for. It's not our place. No. Anyway, it's beautiful and awesome and devastating, but yeah, that, you don't know, you don't know when you pull out of the driveway or when you get off that those feeder roads, you react to something where that's going to take you. And that's part of, shoot, man, as much as I love to prepare and I know you love to prepare, That's the most awesome things in my life I've happened with those X's.

Yeah. With taking those values off the road and going, let's go find out. It's had the same direction, let's go find out. And you know what, we'll do the math later. We'll see that we'll understand the meaning and the science of this situation later because I did not prepare for it.

Or didn't know I was preparing for it. Yeah. Well, it was beautiful and inspiring and I think at the end of your life we talked about this at the beginning those moments where things flash forward. I think it's gonna mean more to you and to other people than other things that you probably wanted to do and strove for.

I think you're gonna be, you're gonna be like, wow, I was a part of that and I think it's lovely. Well, this was amazing. I think the course is fantastic. Of course, I love the book and the journal. Also, we didn't even talk about journaling, but this was amazing, man, and I really, really appreciate it. And I hope to see you soon.

Great to catch up with you. Hope to see you soon as well. I hope that you can get the kids down to your bookstore there too. Come out. Appreciate it. All right, man. Keep it up. Less for right. I'm gonna.

Less for more. Less is more. It's a trip. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it, and I'll see you next episode. Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic early and ad-free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts.