The Daily Stoic - Morgan Wade On Sticking To The Routine

Episode Date: November 4, 2023

Ryan speaks with American country music singer Morgan Wade on physical and mental benefits to our routine, getting sober, ideas while walking, and knowing the vitcory in starting. Morgan Wade is a native of Floyd, Virginia. She began writing songs as a freshman in college, and in 2018, she recruited musicians through Craigslist to record her first album Puppets with My Heart, which was credited to The Stepbrothers. IG @morganwademusicTwitter @themorganwade✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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you make your first purchase of $20 or more using the code daily stoic 20. Hello, I'm Hannah and I'm Seruti and we are the hosts of a Redhanded, a weekly tree crime podcast. Every week on Redhanded, we get stuck into the most talked-about cases. But we also dig into those you might not have heard of, like the Nephiles Royal Massacre and the Nithory Child Sacrifices. Whatever the case, we want to know what pushes people to the extremes of human behaviour. Find, download, and binge Red-handed wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Everyone leaves the legacy. For some, the shadow falls across decades, even centuries. But it also changes. Reputations are reexamined by new generations who may not like what they find. Picasso is undeniably a genius, but also a less than perfect human. From Wundering and Goldhanger podcasts, I'm Afwahersh. I'm Peter Frankapan. And this is Legacy.

A brand new show exploring the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. To find out what their past tells us about our present. Venus Amon was constantly told to sit down and shed up your angry black woman. The name of Napoleon still rings out in the pattern of the guides who thrive on the tourist trade. Search and follow Legacy to listen to the full trailer. Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic. Each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, something to help you live up to those four St stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom.

And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview stoic philosophers. We explore at length how these stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend, when you have a little bit more space when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal, and most importantly to prepare for what the week ahead may bring. Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. You might have heard of this.

I have, you might know this about me. I have this weird habit. I listen to music when I write. Some writers have silence. Other writers, you do listen to music. You know, they do like classical music, or background music. I kind of have this weird habit where I find songs that I like. music, or background music, I kind of have this weird habit where I find songs that I like, and I listen to them over and over and over and over again on loop. I basically suck the marrow out of them. And they get me into an emotional headspace, they get me into a place where I can sort of loop in or lock into a rhythm, and it's all my writing is done that way. And there's this musician I first heard her on, was it Sun Radio in Austin, or it might have been Andy Langer's show on a CL radio,

but I heard Morgan Wade's song Wilder Days, which is an awesome song. And that was the first one of hers that I started listening to on loop. Then she has a song called Take Me Away. I've listened to like several hundred times. She has a song called Take Me Away. I've listened to several hundred times. She has a song, if I was your lover, that's very good.

And a bunch of other ones, her new album Psychopath, I've listened to a bunch of times. There's a new song on there that I really like, 27 Club is good, domino. I listen to this song, domino, a bunch of times. Anyways, it's funny.

I got hooked on her stuff just as I found that she was a fan of my stuff. She'd been sharing someone's social media. She followed me, I got hooked on her stuff just as I found that she was a fan of my stuff. She'd been sharing someone's social media. She followed me, we got connected. She's one of Nashville's sort of hottest up-and-coming artists. People are huge fans. I saw her in a small venue in Austin, maybe a year ago. And then she was off-perform with Alanna's more set

at the CMT Awards. And now she's headlining this new album's huge, as we talk about in today's episode, that the fame is sort of, you know, suddenly, it was slowly and then all at once for her, right? And well deserved, because she's awesome. And she's also a total badass, as we talk about in today's episode, she's this intense physical practice of weightlifting,

running, she's about to do an ultra marathoner. Just someone I am now, someone I am a big fan of, someone I was really looking forward to having on the podcast. She was looking forward to coming on, she showed me after we were done, I wish she would have told me while we were doing it, but she was wearing the daily stroke momentum

or an necklace. So she's a big reader and a great musician and someone that you should check out on Spotify. You may have seen, actually, I think I wore a Morgan Wade shirt in the Troy Baker interview in the Daily Stoke studio. I didn't wear it obviously when Morgan was here. That would have been weird. But we went around the store and did, we went around the store and did some book recommendations before.

So I'll bring you that at some point also. Without further ado, here's my interview with Morgan Wade. You can follow on Instagram at Morgan Wade Music. Her latest album is Psychopath. So here's my interview with the one and only Morgan Wade. I think you're going to be a big fan. So you played tonight? Yeah, I played like 315.

Something like that. You have to do it? Yeah. Cool. No, no. I'm going to, and I like to play earlier too. Really? Yeah, yeah.

I like, I can't, I'm not like a night out. Really? I'm like an early, early bird. I get it early so. That's not a very musician thing. No, it's not. And my mom says that all the time. She's like, I'm like an early, early bird, I get it early, so. That's not a very musician thing. No, it's not. And my mom says that all the time, she's like, I'm so surprised,

because I've always been like, that looks good, but I really get it early soon. Yeah, I did this book with these rappers this one time, they were like, let's meet in the studio at one, and I thought I was like afternoon. They were like, no, let's meet there at one. I was like, how could you be starting at this time?

This is insane. Yeah, yeah. I wonder how much of that is like sort of acting, like I wonder if everyone's actually probably not that way. And then they're just, I don't know. There are some people that I've worked with

and they're like that and they just get going like late at night, but I'm like no. Yeah, I feel like working normal, regular person hours is way better. Yeah, there are a lot of the LA people to like write with an LA. They, you know, if you want to do like a co-write or anything like that, it's not,

it's not before lunchtime. Like some of them want to start like 3 p.m. Right. And I'm like, you gotta understand. I'm on the East Coast time. You know, that's six for me. Yeah. I'm winding down at that point. Yeah, and then also I'm like, you gotta understand. I'm on the East Coast side. You know, that's six for me. Yeah. I'm winding down at that point.

Yeah. And then also, I feel like that means, yeah. Like if you're someone who wakes up early, you work out, you do stuff. You're not peaking at three. You're like already on the deco, Oh yeah. You gotta figure out when you're,

I think creatively you have to figure out when you're peaking and then you have to design your life around that Which I guess would be weird if you peek at one one a.m. That makes you into a vampire or something. Yeah, that's not me. It's not me Do you so you're like what time do you get up? This morning I got it like 445 Why that I don't know I just wake up early normally. I get up go to the gym Early, okay, I like to be to everybody else in there. Normally I get up and go to the gym early.

I like to beat everybody else in there. Some have to fight for anything. When I'm at home, I get up around that time and I get up, I make my coffee, I come sit back down with the dog, I read and journal, do all that stuff and then I'll go hit the gym. Yeah, walk me through your morning routine.

So what are you doing? So yeah, on the roads a little different, but if we go like when I'm at home, yeah, wake up, you know, around five-ish, four-fourty-five-five-ish, sometimes a little bit, five-fifteen. Had my coffee, sit there with the dog, read, journal, just kind of like chill for a minute. Like what's a minute? Well, like 45 minutes, something like that. So I'm out, I try to be out the door by six o'clock. Okay. Yeah, I tell you me about 15, 20 minutes to get to the gym. Um, and then it's either because there's a class there a few days a week and today, like, take up the whole gym. Yeah. And so it's either get there like 4.30 or try to be there by 7.

Till like yeah, so it depends. But yeah, go to the gym for a couple hours. Couple hours. Yeah, I'm in there for a bit. And then I go to the coffee shop in town, go sit and have coffee and meet my friends there or whatever. And then go back home and I run. And there's a trail where I live. So I'm like constantly walking that trail all day. Wow. And then that's not a part of the working out. That's just you're on the trail just being active to things. Yeah, I don't like to sit.

I don't like to sit. I constantly walk and I'm training and I'm doing it's less than I'm on the way now. November, first weekend, November, 30 hour race. So I'm trying to hit a lot of miles. Have you done that before? No, the most sovereign, I've ran two 50 mile races. Um, and then a couple weeks ago, I ran, uh, like 30 miles. So kind of that halfway. Yeah. Wow. So, but how often, I mean, that sounds, uh, it sounds both terrible and

wonderful. Like I get what it does for you. How often do you actually get to do that, though? I imagine that's the exception, not the norm, because you're on the road, right? Running or writing? The whole, your whole routine. Like how, how many days a month are you actually getting to do it the way that you want to do it? It has not been like that, uh, as much lightly, um, I say lately, like the the last year basically. But when I'm on the road,

as soon as we get there, you know, and I prefer to get there early. First show like the day before you mean, or what do you mean? Yeah. So we roll in when you're on the bus, you typically leave midnight one in the morning. And of course, I sleep. I get off the stage, I get in the bed, midnight one in the morning. And of course I sleep. I get off the stage, I get in the bed, keeps me out of trouble. I'm like, I don't drink or anything. So it's like I go, I get in the bed.

And we wake up, you know, sometimes it's like 7 a.m. Just depends. And I get up, I have my coffee, I find a gym. The headline tour, I had all the gym equipment, like squat rack, everything in the trailer. So I work out there But I'll go I'm map it out find a gym go work out for a couple hours come back, you know have my lunch or whatever Well sound chat get dialed in sign all the stuff and then I just walk

Go run walk for the rest of the day until time to go do the EP so So is it you like sort of idle hands or the devil's workshop kind of a thing? Like you can't keep yourself, if you are, if you are, have downtime, you get yourself into trouble or is it that it's conducive to positive things? No, it's not that I, I like to say get into trouble. I just, if I stay up late,

my day of getting in trouble is like staying up eating junk food. Yeah, sure. That kind of thing. And I just think it's good. It's healthier just to go play, wind down and get in the bed and it's down a good thing. But I mean, the walk, like,

like, why not hang out in your hotel room or see, like, so yours is walking, is it because if you're sitting, you're in distress. Yeah, I mean, I can, I said it like I can't go sit. Like I'll go sit at like a coffee shop, read my book or like do those kind of things, but you know, I listen to, I listen to an audible book, whatever,

like walking around. But I just like stay moving because I'm like, I don't know, I've, I've, the last couple of years really become like that, just constantly like moving. And I think too, because I don't know. I don't want to just sit inside. It's been like really good for me.

I know mood wise. It's just I'm so much happier when I'm like out walking around constantly moving versus just, I'm not going to sit there and watch TV. You know, anything like that. So I'm like, why not? Is TV or you know anything like that so I'm like why not? Is it meditated for you to walk for sure? Walking meditated. Yeah, yeah, and I mean, you know if I have meetings or anything like that

I'm on the phone. Yeah, I'm just gonna walk. Yeah, because if I sit down I'm like pacing. I'll get up like walk around the house I'm like go outside and try to walk and take those meetings. That's what I've hated from the pandemic, because now everyone wants to do fucking zooms for everything. And I'm like, no, I'm like, that means that I can't do my other thing at the same time. So I was just, I'd be like, oh, I don't have a good reception.

It's not. Right, no, totally. And it's funny because I, you know, if it's with my agents or, you know, with the label or whatever they know, I'm gonna be walking around. Yeah. I know, and it's probably, I don't even, I'm gonna be walking around. So. I know, and it's probably, I try not to even think

about what it sounds like to other people, because there's always some more issues. Especially with the AirPods, it's picking everything else up, and most of the time my managers like, are you walking on the highway? Like, what are you talking about? My wife said that to me the other day,

she's like, you know, it's like horrible. Like, you can't hear anything you're saying. I was like, don't tell me that. It's gonna mess up like the one thing that's more. Right. I have to stay more than one of them. For sure. I know.

Yeah. And it's weird. I think of all, most of that, so my routine is sort of similar, is like the physical benefits are totally unintentional. Like, it's actually all about getting to the right headspace, not getting into trouble. It's like, you know, not going crazy.

And then if it's keeping me in shape, that's just, that's extra, but that's not why I'm doing it. Right, right. Yeah, you know, for me, it's just, and you can tell, like, my mood, I have to get, I have to work out every day. I have to get up and work out. Like, there's just, it has to happen or it, it messes with my mood, it messes with my day. And I'm like, it has been good for me as far as touring to not be so married to the schedule. Because, you know, I have really bad OCD

and there's certain things that I'm just extremely particular about. And so it was good for me to be like, okay, it's not, everything can't happen how you want it to happen. Yes. And to kind of like dial in and adapt to schedule. Cause I mean, that's one thing that was really, really like

shattering to me. And it caused a lot of anxiety of being like in panic, which sounds dumb to a lot of people, but in my brain, it was just like, what do you mean? We're not going to be here at this time. I have to do this at this time, you know? Yeah, I know the routine is cathartic and comforting and conducive to getting in the right headspace, but it can have this effect of making you feel like you're in control when

you're not. So like, fundamentally, we all have certain powerlessness, right? And so the disruption of the routine like travel, it can be good because it's forcing you to be a bit more resilient. You're having to figure out how to operate inside an environment where you don't get to determine how everything goes. It's not revolving around you. And that's probably good. Because otherwise you become super fragile. Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, the biggest, it was like overseas. I just did the whole run over there, and Germany, and Paris, and everywhere. It was just like, that's a whole other ball game

of trying to find a gym over there. And instead of looking at it now was a stressor, I'm looking at it like, okay, this is cold challenge, you get to find out, and then I got to, you know, visit a lot of really cold gyms and stuff over there versus stressing over it. And I'm like, it's such a dumb thing to stress about, like you're going to the gym to better yourself

and because it feels good and, you know, you really thoroughly enjoy it. So trying to look at it from a different perspective. Yeah, it can almost become like the superstition, right? Right. And then it's not actually helpful or adapted. Right. Yeah.

It's just an addiction like anything else. Well, and I kind of got to this place too, where everyone around me, you know, on my team was like, okay, we got it. Yeah. I'm sure Morgan gets to the gym kind of thing. And I don't mind that as much either because it's like in my Managers always like stay on your routine, you know as much as and I do try to send that as much as possible because I know it's like good for me But I'm not a it can make you feel like a baby when people like you got it and it's like I can all figure it out

Right. Yeah, and you know to for people that don't work out, or they just think they're like, you're crazy. You're crazy. And I'm like, no, I mean, I really, it's good for me. Like, I know what helps me mentally, but again, it has been, like I said, really good to not have that ability every day, like to make it a challenge a little bit. Yeah, sometimes I feel like just on purpose,

I'll try to change up the order or the difference. So I'm not so fragile that if it doesn't go my way, because it's like look on an ordinary Tuesday, if it doesn't go my way, whatever. But like, let's say I'm performing or I'm doing something and it doesn't go my way, because my kids are sick or because the flight was delayed or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And if I can't like handle that, if I'm so fragile that that like fucks me up. Right. Then, then all of that work was for nothing.

Like the whole point is that you should be able to adjust and adapt and the things are supposed to be making you better, not making you weaker. Making you worse, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So you worked out this morning? I did. Yeah, Sunday's a little easier.

I just ran and hit a little bit of arms on Sunday. How far would you ride? This morning I ran like four miles. Tomorrow, I'll pick back up and do whatever my training schedule says. I'm kind of tapering down now with the Yeah, with the rest of the day. Is this all self all self driven for you or do you have like a coach? It's like this is what you're doing today. I have as far as like working out my friend Query Gregory as the max effort Program and I'm good friends with him and so he sends me all the workouts as far as like powerlifting stuff like that as far as the running

I just got that plan off the internet. I think it was like Pinterest or something. And that's what I've been working with. But I have to have a double mistake to me in November. So that's on the 18th. And I've always, I've wanted to run 100 mile race. That's been my thing. And so I know I'm gonna be down for the count for at least four weeks

and for somebody that cannot lay down and sit. That's like really messing with my head. So I was like, all right. You know, you've been doing all this running. Like, you guys just go for it and commit. And so. I was trying to squeeze a hundred mile race in between them before the missus.

Well, yeah, November, November 4th. And so I was like, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go do that. And then I was like, it's gonna take my body, a minute to kind of heal from that. So I was like, well, what better time than when you- This is double it up. You've gotta lay down.

But, you know, everybody's like, why are you, you know, I'm running it up north and they're like, why are you, and I was like, it was the only available option the weekend I had off. There was actually one, I think it was here in Austin that was in August. I think it was Austin. It was somewhere in Texas called the Habanero.

I was like, yeah, that's not that. I was like, plus, that's not that. I was like, plus I needed that extra time too. I was like, you know, you got to give yourself a few more months to train, but it was the only weekend and I was like, this is perfect. I'm gonna go up there, I'm gonna run it. And it's 30 hours that you've got to do. Basically, it's on a loop for my loop

and you run as much as you can. Four mile loop. Which I like too, because it's not like I've got to go 20 miles before the next aid station, that kind of thing. So I can set up shop, I've got my crew and stuff. And for me, that's good because I can look at it. Like, all right, I need to try to get this many loops. As long as I kept an 18 minute pace for 30 hours, I can hit my goals. I feel like the, but mentally though,

that's tougher in the sense that you're not having new scenery and you're not like, oh, I have to get to hear or to hear. I think more in checkpoints or like. Gotcha. I'm going to hear it and then I'm turning around and then I'm like halfway. Right. I think the loop of it.

Like I always, I ran cross country and track in high school. Oh, God. And I cross country was always better for me than track because there was less loops. I am weirder in that sense where I know some people that that would drive them crazy. I like that. I was like, if I could find a race that's a one mile loop,

I would be so down. Just do it a hundred times. Yeah, I don't know why for me. I love that because I'm like, all right, I can just count it off in my head. So I'm about to out with me. Do you write in your head while you do this stuff? I do sometimes when I walk, especially like,

you know, early mornings like heading to the gym. Um, that's, that's like a good time for me. Cause I'll play like, you know, if I have like a track on my phone, you know, instrumental stuff like that. Oh, you would run the track in your ears. I want to move. Yeah, which seems to be a thing for me, like just continuing, just like, you know, with the running and then with like the track. Like I'll just keep playing it over and over. And so, especially like the early mornings, I think that's when I'm most creative. Like, especially when I come back from the gym and you know, it's, you know, back home by 9, 10, a.m. That's like my creative time. Well, you probably have this feeling when you get back to

that your house at nine or 10, you've gotten up, you've read, you've journaled, you've worked out. Like, you already won every, like, you know what I mean I mean? Right. Yeah, that's like a great day And so you're probably have a certain confidence a certain momentum and then you're probably also looking around Everyone else is just getting started. Yeah, they're just having coffee. Yeah, I'm already, you know essentially done Yeah, you know, I I don't know I for me It's just if it's like two adrenaline rush for me as well. I'm happier, I'm up, I'm just accomplished all this stuff. I mean, if I slept till 9 a.m., I would just want to lay there the rest of the day because

of what my day's gone. Yeah. Yeah. That's not, you know, I don't, I can't function like that. I got to be up early. There's this dancer named Ms. Twyla Tharp, she wrote this book called The Creative Haven and she's talking about, she gets up, she starts her routine, and she's like, when I leave my apartment, and I'm waiting for the cab, she's like, I already won. Do you know what I mean? Like, once

the wheels are in motion, it's done. And so really the victory is just starting. It's just, if you're starting, everything else takes care of itself. And I think, yeah, for people who have trouble with discipline or aren't sort of locked into a routine, they think that it's this insane amount of willpower every day, but actually weirdly becomes less and less because you're just, as long as you're starting and you get into the rhythm of it,

it takes care of itself the rest of the way. For sure, I agree. So you listen to the same song over and over again? If it's like a track to write to, yeah. I'll do that if I want to try to nail something down. And I do that a lot on the plane. I try not to, people be watching movies or whatever on there. And I just can't, I'll watch a little bit of the office

because that's about the only show. I watch, I watch that on repeat. But yeah, I'll try to like just play track in my head and we're, you know, put my headphones in and play it and write the lyrics like that sometimes. Cause I always say I can't have a guitar. Sure. You know, out on the plane, people might not enjoy that. And so, you know, it's moments like that

that I try not to waste too. And it's good for me, especially like, you know, walking or whatever I like to, especially with the training, the main thing for training for an ultra like this is just trying to be on your feet as much as you can all day because I mean, you got 30 hours doing that,

you don't wanna be sitting. So if I can just be out walking, you know, I'll call my mom or whoever or I'll be listening to this track and like working on stuff as I'm out moving. When I work out or would I run, and when I write, I will pick A song and it's usually a song that'll like I can usually make it like a song work for like a week or something

and I just listen to that same song over and over and over again until it sort of blurs into something where I don't even know where it begins and ends. Right. And I just get into a groove that lets me sort of lose track of time. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. You're a little weird too. Oh totally. Most creators are those tracks. You sort of find out what works for you. For sure. And then you're just like, I don't care as long as it keeps doing the thing. So yeah, so for me, like that's like a currency.

Like I have to, I'm always looking for those songs because I feel like those songs are Locking stuff. Yeah, so when I find one then I'm like, okay, like this is this is a good one And then but then there's also there's something transactional about it because like I'm using it up. Yeah, you know, like I'm right It's like I'm sucking all the emotional valence and meaning out of it and then at some point I'm like this doesn't do anything Get him move on. Yeah, that's that's not so so Do you find like getting like like I find like if I go for my walks or my runs what when I'm coming back I'm like scribbling a bunch of shit that like it Ne Nietzsche said something like, only ideas had while walking have any worth.

And there's something about, I think, getting moving and being outside that gets the brain moving, that if you were sitting there trying to do what you're trying to do, you wouldn't have the same amount of success. Yeah, for sure. I mean, too, for me, like, from a creative standpoint, I could go, if you told me to go on that rune right now with a guitar and write something good, yeah, might not be very good. Yes. You know, so for me, I don't, I don't push myself. I'm like, you know, with, with that, I'm like, if it comes to me, it comes to me, and it's,

and it's something I'm going to use. I know that. I have to be inspired with it. And you know, I, there's, there's plenty of, of writers that, that can just go and, and write something to be amazing. I can't tell myself, you've got to go write this and expect it to work. It could, but I, I prefer the stuff that, you know, inspires me, but I find when I'm walking, when I'm out, and I'm not just sitting there, forcing myself to do something, it's so mindless for me, I kinda just let my brain. So it is like a meditation, I guess, for me, because I can't just sit there

and really try to meditate, I've been working on that, but that's... The sitting sounds like it'd be the hard part for you. Yeah, so for me being outside walking and just trying to, you know, I just let my mind run then and then just kind of, I soak it all in and that seems to be what works for me. There's this quote, I forget who said it, but it's something like inspiration is for amateurs.

Yeah. So there is something about like this is the time that I do the thing every day, right? Like if you're like, if you only work out when you feel like it, most people are not gonna work out. Then I'm not gonna work out. Yeah. So there's something about like, for me,

it's like, this is the time that I do it every day. I show up. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. And sometimes I do great stuff and then sometimes I'm just, I'm just putting in the time. But then I find it's like in the afternoon or on the walk or the workout later

that whatever problem I was having before, my mind fixes. Right. Or, okay, actually, wait, I gotta flip that around. So it's actually, it's more complicated than inspiration is for amateurs. There's something about showing up being a professional, doing it at a set time, and then setting space

and a kind of a meditative practice or an openness that allows for serendipity and just stuff to happen. You gotta let your mind just sort of chew on it in the background for a while. Yeah, agree. So for you though, it sounds like it would take more discipline for you though, it sounds like it would take more discipline for you to rest and recover than to push yourself.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I know that, you know, next month, I'm preparing myself for that like mentally, but the doctor, she was like, look, you can walk out of here. You're gonna like, look, you can walk out of here. You're going to be able to get it and walk out of here. And she was like, so I can walk. She was like, I encourage you to walk.

And I was like, how much was talking? You know, and so she's like, I mean, don't, don't be like crazy. But she was like, yeah, you need to walk. And she was like, within, you know, hopefully like a week, you can kind of start doing, you know, legs, maybe even sooner than that, and then like slowly like work your way, work your way up and she was like, with, you know, everybody's kind of different,

you don't know exactly what's gonna happen, but she's like, you can, with your health and like you being in shape, she was like four weeks, probably max, but again, everybody's different. But I imagine like your average, not even average. A coach would be like, you can't work out every day. There needs to be rest and recovery days. But for you, I imagine it's better for you mentally.

You would take the punishment physically because mentally, it's more important that you are consistent. Yeah. I mean, I go to the gym seven days a week. I don't recommend that for everybody, but I know a lot of people that do. And I think there's, once you, I'm not going in there like on the weekends or like a little, the running is more intense

on the weekends for me. I do take days off from running a ton and I'll walk. But yeah, as far as working out, I'll go to the gym, there's this bicep workout that I do every day because your muscles start to adapt there. And there's a lot of research into that. I'm not gonna bore everybody.

I don't recommend that for everybody. You got everybody's bodies different, but there's certain things like that that I've like, you know, worked on as far as like my shoulders, like the first ultra iron ran. I was so sore on my shoulders. I was like, are you from holding me there? Yeah, so I was like, all right, we gotta go back

and we gotta start going to the gym and training shoulders a lot. And I started doing that and strengthening my shoulders shoulders as last race down the end, no shoulder pain. Just things like that. I like to like dial in on that stuff and see what works. Do you ever think about what that energy directed towards your music and your career would do or are they balanced? Do you know what I mean? Like, that's obviously an incredible intensity that you're directing towards a thing that is not your main thing. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's obviously an incredible intensity that you're directing towards a thing that is not your main thing.

You ever think about that? Yeah, I think this has been really good for me within the last couple of years so I really start battling in the fitness. Yeah. Because, you know, I need to have something other than music, you know. Because I feel like if you get too engrossed in one thing,

you know, I think there's a lot of balance. And so while I am really engrossed in like the fitness stuff, I also know that, you know, when I'm on tour, it's like, oh, it's 5 p.m., I've got to go, I've got VIP. And then, you know, I get a little break, and then I go and I play the show and I deliver. And, you know, I've got that kind of going in there, but I think you should have balance

because for me working out doing all this is, I mean, I would say it's a hobby. It's obviously a lifestyle for me now, but I enjoy doing that and it's something other than the music. And I feel like, also, I can't put everything I have into the fitness element because I also, it's good for me to focus on the music as well.

So I think it's good for me to have balance because if I just focused on music 24-7, I think I get really burned out, I get really tired of that. We can't see tomorrow, but we can hear it. And it sounds like a wind farm powering homes across the country. We're bridging to a sustainable energy future, working today to ensure tomorrow is on. And bridge, life takes energy. I'm Rob Briden and welcome to my podcast, Briden and we are now in our third series. Among those still to come is some Michael Paling, the comedy duo Egg and Robbie Williams.

The list goes on, so do sit back and enjoy. Briden and on Amazon Music, Wondery Plus, or wherever, you get your podcasts. of a friend and we were talking, we were describing this person. It's basically that he was a partier who did music on the side. Yeah, too. You know? And I'm sure you know people like that. How much for you was, was all of this kind of a professionalization and getting really serious about what you do? Yeah, I mean, so I started kind of playing out my freshman year of college.

And you weren't necessarily getting, well, you weren't making any money. Yeah. But you got paid a lot of times in alcohol. Yeah. You got a free beer tab, whatever. And so that's what I was like, all right, I'm going to make my money's worth off of that. And so I started drinking, you know, all right, I'm gonna make my money's worth off of that. So I started drinking, you know? And so I wasn't tired, I was working hard, obviously. But it wasn't like I was.

I got sober, I've been sober for six years now. And so once I, that was kind of like the changing moment for me. It was like, all right, I was afraid, I think to stop drinking, because I'm like, I don't know what it's like to kind of like the changing moment for me. It was like, all right, I was afraid, I think to stop drinking, because I'm like, I don't know what it's like to kind of go play show without that courage. So it made me focus on other things, and that's when I really started to dial in,

and I can say that if I didn't get sober, I don't think it would have been in the, I wouldn't have worked as hard by any means, and I wouldn't have gotten dialed in, I wouldn't have met the people that I met, and I don't think they would have wanted to have worked as hard by any means and I wouldn't have gotten dialed in. I wouldn't have met the people that I met. And I don't think they would have wanted to, you know, worked with me either. That kind of made me concentrate and focus on that.

And it was like, all right, well, I'm not drinking. So I kind of need to, you know, what else can I, can I look at, what else can I do? And so I kind of became, you know, I don't want to say obsessed, but I was like really, I was like, all right, you got to work hard at this because that was like very challenging to not do that, especially in the environment that I was in. So once I put that down and really started to focus on, hey, what do you actually want to do? You know, don't have I asked this anymore. Like, you kind of got to get dedicated. And that's when I met my producer, uh, Sadler Vaden. And he kind of sat me down. I was like,

you've either got to go all in with the music or keep working, you know, your job on the side, whatever. He was like, but you're not going to be able to get to that level. You want to get to if you don't just go all in. Right. And so that's what I eventually had to do. And so once I did that and that's when I started to see everything changing. There's a story that Roseanne Cash tells in her memoir where she's actually I think she's done maybe one or two albums. Obviously she comes from sort of music royalties. Right. So she sort of gets a break in the business, but she has this dream and in the dream she's at this party and she sees the singer Linda Ronstadt talking to this man. Do you know this story? No, I don't. And so she walks up to him. They all have name tags and the man's name tag. It's just as art, right?

Which is symbolic of her craft. And so she goes and she tries to like get in on this conversation is Linda Ronsett's or hero and she's this high, you know, I'm Rosanne and Art turns to her and he just says, we don't respect the dilatants and then they turn away from her. And for her, this was this sort of turning point moment that she realized like she was doing music, but she wasn't really doing music. She wasn't all in on it. And so like there's this turning point in her career where she goes back and she's you know she starts she gets coaches and she starts working with better collaborators. She stops. You know she this is the moment where she's like oh yeah I I was only kind of doing this thing and

now I'm really going to do this thing. And that's how she becomes ultimately what she ends up becoming. Yeah, that's awesome. Not her story, that's great. But I think that's there's kind of a there's Steven Pressfield tells a version of that story also in the war of art. He's saying that that's the resistance, right? The resistance is, well, if I don't really try, if I am half doing it, or I have this addiction, or this compulsion, or this other thing, then I can always use that as an excuse for why it's not happening for me. And then when it doesn't happen,

I don't have to feel as bad, because it's not a rejection of me. It's only a partial rejection of me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's much easier to just try a little bit and then I'm like, eh, okay, I didn't put, I didn't go all in. I could have if I wanted to. Yeah. Yeah. That whole thing versus, you know, working really hard and then failing. But to me, you know, I mean, obviously, you don't really think like that. But I'm like, okay, at least I went out there

and I gave it everything I had versus just sitting on the couch today. Yeah, well, and then I probably being intoxicated is a way of just getting rid of all those feelings altogether. So you're just kind of, you're just live, you're in a weird way, you're just living kind of in this moment. Oh, yeah. As opposed to having to think about what could have been what you fucked up What you're dealing with what you're struggling with you're just

You're just going along to get along right What was the quote someone I can't remember but you know most of our issues Stand for not being able to sit in a room alone with our thoughts kind of thing. And that is such, you know, I had a moment. So when I ran, you know, the 30 miles a couple weeks back, I, one loop, I put my head buns in, just one loop, and then when I came back around, I just threw my stuff down. And so it was just silence. Because then when you start out, you're all in a pack.

And then it just, it breaks off and everybody's running their own race. But it was just nature out there. I mean, I was running through this park and up these trails and through the woods and I didn't have anything else in it first. I was like, this is gonna drive me crazy. But then I got to thinking about it.

I was like, I started kind of like having all these ideas going through my head, I started kind of like talking myself, you know, and that's when I kind sort of kind of like talking to myself, you know, and that's when I kind of like realized I was like, okay, you know, this can be, and I think that's a big, you know, issue as well is like sometimes you have to just kind of like let go and that was a good focus for me.

Yeah, that quote is from Pascal. He said all of humanity's problems stem from our inability to sit quietly in a room alone. And you're going like, yeah, I've these headphones that I got to take them on. But he said that quote in the 16 fucking hundreds. Right. He did a lot. Like now he would be like, yeah.

Well, it's also just like, oh, yeah, that's been our problem for his long, long, weekend. Forever, regardless of the internet, you know, yeah. But it is, it's like, and I've realized that a lot too with, you know, like, you'll go stay, you'll go see these houses and I have friends who'll give their house, they have like a TV and everyone's like a TV in the bathroom.

I'm like, I don't have a TV in my house. You know, kind of like, I'm not saying I'm better than anybody I have my own vices, but I'm just like, man, we really, we have to constantly, I'm one of those people that can't have something in the background or I'm gonna fixate on it, but again, I have my own little things, but. No, I did a talk to the other day,

and I went to a bunch of CEOs, and I was like, how many of you have CNBC or Fox or CNN on a TV in your office with the sound off. It's kind of like an executive status and by monitoring the world. And it's like that is designed actually to be captivated with the sound off. Like it's designed just to catch their supposed to be arresting emotionally aggravating images about real-time developing information. And your job as a leader, just as it's a job of a creative, is actually to be thinking about what's going on in here,

and to be thinking big picture. And so it's the opposite of what you should be cultivating, the kind of stillness that you need to make good decision. And to access the sort of muscle, to access the creativity or the insight needed to do what you do. And so you're choosing to operate on like 70% capacity because you have this low grade distraction happening in the area. For sure, and that's like a hate TV's in the gym. Yes. Because I will catch, I hate TVs in the gym. Yes. Because I will catch, I'm not interested in what's on there,

but I'll be like working out. And then I'd say, there's something random on there that I just, I start looking at, I'm like, I quit. That's why I hate like TVs in there and stuff like that. Cause it is, it's just a distraction. It's like, I don't even want to look at that. It's kind of like with the scrolling, you know, it's just automatic going now. And it's like 30 minutes goes by and I'm like, I didn't need to see 45 videos

of dogs. You know, like I just wasted 30 minutes where I could have been, you know. Well, you have it like at the gas station now. You're like filling up your car. Oh my gosh, and it's right there on the point. Yeah, I like just like leading up against the car just like thinking and doing nothing even for eight minutes or whatever point. Yeah, I'm just like leading up against the car, just like thinking and doing nothing even for eight minutes or whatever. Right. And you're just like, no, now it's got this garbage clips and ads and you can't, you can't.

You cannot escape anything, yeah. I think about it, the airport, you know CNN has a deal with most airports to pay them to run CNN like in the airport. There's this, and there's a special version of CNN. It's like airport CNN, so they only show certain things. Like if it's gonna be really traumatic, they don't show it. But the idea is that-

Yeah, so the traumatic plane crash is we're not gonna see while we're in the airport. But the point is, they know that even with the sound off, it will suck your attention to you. That's what the producer is watching at their backstage with a lot of times without the sound off, it will suck your attention. That's what the producer is watching at their backstage, all the time without the sound off. He or she is sort of puppeteering that. Let's get people going thing.

It's just not good for your mind. No, it's not at all. The people I know that are the dumbest and the angriest are the people who consume the most television news. Oh yeah. Yeah. They're, yeah. And those are the same ones that are the trolls on the internet, too. Because it's like you've got all this time to just sit there and put everybody else down. So what was getting so overlike for you? Um, you know, for me, it was like I'd, I'd played a show in New York, it was my first time in New York. It was like one of those little shows

that nobody got paid, you kind of came up there and I was like, all right, I have to go to New York and little did I know the show made zero difference in my career, but that whole experience changed my life. And I got up there and again, alcohol. As soon as my feet hit the ground, got out of the car, I just started drinking and I drank so much that day. I drank more than I, you know,

I had ever drank before and I woke up the next day. No idea what happened. And that's such a scary feeling too, especially as a female to, you know, just let your guard down with that, especially where I was staying. I was not a safe part of town. Like, we had no money, me and my band, so we were like, you know, and it was just like a hangover for me that was heavier than anything that I'd ever experienced before. And that lasted for days. And when the next day, I was like, hey, can somebody grab me a drink when I'm in a Penn station?

And they came back with a beer and I meant a water. And like that, they just assumed it. So I had a beer, I took one sip of it and I put it down. I was like, it tasted different to me. And my motto was just always like the best way to kill hangovers, start drinking again, you know, kind of like counterbalance that which is super dumb. But that was it. That was the last drink I ever had and I remember

I got home and it just seemed like everything in my life was just like kind of falling apart a little bit and I was just like, what am I doing? Kind of thing and I'm like, I have an issue and everybody's like, I you're too young, whatever you need to chill out. And I'm like, no man, I seriously, I am drinking more than I should be able to drink. And it's like taking over my life. And I'm doing stuff I don't wanna do. And that's a problem too that we kinda have,

I think it's getting better where people are starting to realize you don't just have to be some 40 year old man that lost his job and just wakes up and jack in his cereal in the morning. There's sobriety and like alcoholism like it looks different for everybody and I was just like all right let's let's try not to drink let's just like work on this and I was like I am not gonna drink for a month and then you know like that slowly started to change and so you know I had to change up my habits, for sure.

It was like, you're gonna be that person that loves sparkling water. We're gonna do it. And now, you know, I do. But it was just like things like that. Like, alright, you gotta have something. If you have to have something in your hand, like make it water.

Yeah. And certain little things like that. And at first, it was hard, but, hard, but I think sometimes it's harder now because like the first month, you're like, ugh, you can still taste it. You know why you're not drinking. And then six months, I could still remember, even a year, I could remember why I got sober. But as time goes on, you sort of think, well, have I changed? Am I a little different now?

Could I handle it? Can I just go have a beer or glass of wine or whatever and then I'll have a dream that I drink something and it's always awful It never tastes good and as soon as I drink it I'm devastated and so I wake up and it's like it takes me a minute to realize I didn't do it but that feeling always helps me to remember, okay. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I tell the story in discipline, it's destiny about the physicist Richard Feynman,

he's just sort of going to work one day, and he feels, it's like 10 a.m. He just feels, I should go get a drink. And he was like, that's not a good feeling. Right. Because it's the feeling of realizing that you're not the one in control, that you have these desires or urges that they have you as opposed to you have them. Exactly.

And we all kind of have stuff like that. Like things that were slaves to the stove should say. And those are the things we should probably work on. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I always think about it's like, do I have a phone or just the phone having you? Phone have me. are the things we should probably work on. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I always think about it's like, do I have a phone or just the phone having me? Phone having me.

Yeah, I'm currently, I'm all social media. I haven't been on there, you know, and like a week, whatever. I just took it all off my phone. I did that a few months back. You know, it was dealing with a bunch of stuff and like the media and everything. And I was just so like addicted to seeing what everyone was saying. And it was bringing me down. And for like three days, it was just like debilitating.

I didn't go to the gym, which I, I mean, it was so weird for me. I just laid around. I didn't eat. I was like, and then finally I was like, why do you care what this random person is making up about you? Like, they read the headline of something

and think it's true and it's not, it's like you know it's not true, your friends know it's not true, your family knows. Like does this person, this person's not even coming to your show. Like they don't even know who you are, they don't even have a profile picture. Right.

And so I just, I got off the internet and like, it's so crazy because I go pick up my phone and I scroll up and I was like, oh yeah, you don't have it anymore. And then I get up and go do something. And so I was off for like almost two months something like that was so great. And then I can't, I ended up, the record came out

so I got back on there. And I have people running my social media, which is good. But then I'm like, oh, I don't need to let them do it. I need to do it. And then I get back on there and it's just so easy to fall back into that same trap. I think I'm the person that can get on there every now and again, but not really, not for my own phone.

I need to have my manager's phone and let me look at something, but I'm back off of there and I've read more in this past week than I have, because I'm always, I don't have time, which is so dumb, because it's like, no, you totally have time because I'm always like, I don't have time, which is so dumb. Because it's like, no, you totally have time, but it's like, I'll pick something up so I'm watching on my phone. And so now I'm like, okay, we'll read that book,

have that book with you. And so that's what I've been doing. Yeah, I have it. I have my stuff on my wife's phone. I have a social media team and then I have, if I want to check it, it's like on my wife's phone. So I'd be like, hey, can I see that? And then she was like, I'm tired of using my phone because I would just use it all the time. And then so I was like, okay, I'll get a second phone. And it's like on my wife's phone, so I'd be like, hey, can I see that? And then she was like, I'm tired of using my phone,

because I would just use it all the time. And then I was like, okay, I'll get a second phone. And it's like, no, I just can't. I can't, I'm gonna have to get rid of the second phone, because I was just checking, even though I wouldn't take it with me, but I would just grab it. And you realize I think,

sort of if you have any kind of addictive tendency or compulsion, or you're someone who's just kind of trying to numb something, you will find an outlet for that. Well, it's such an OCD for me because people like, well, don't read the comments and I'm like, I, you know, I've always had certain things that it's like I would do and the thing with having OCD is it's like, you're like, okay, I'm not gonna do that. And then you're like, yeah, I got to do that and you do it and you're like, well, I feel better for a second. And then it just repeats again. So that's what I was doing. I was like, you're like, okay, I'm not gonna do that. And then you're like, yeah, I gotta do that. And you do it and you're like, wow, feel better.

For a second, and then it just repeats again. So that's what I was doing. I was like, well, if I know what they're saying, I'm gonna feel better. And then I see something that I wouldn't have known, this person said that, and it wouldn't have been in my head. But now I know that. And I'm like, yeah, that's why OCD isn't,

you can't just scratch it. Scratch it, you gotta let it go. And so that's what I've been doing for the last week. And I can already feel myself kind of wanting back down. That's the thing about social media is, is I don't know if I've ever felt better after that. I've never felt better. I'm never like, I'm so glad I did that.

That was a good use of my time that filled me up. Yeah. That was positive. It's always like I'm angry or now or more envious now or Numbed out now. Yeah, it's not it's probably not activating anything good. Well, I'm my favorite part that I'm always like I'm like, well, I'll go look at these motivational pages. Sure. I have a couple. I'm always like, I'm like, well, I'll go look at these motivational pages. I'm like, I have a couple. I'm like, yes, I will look at that and it'll be great. But then I'm like, then I'm like, I gotta watch this and I gotta watch this.

And it just, you know, keeps going. And I think some people really can, and I have friends that can like, look at it for a little bit. And then, but they're fine now, not touch it again. I am not like that. And then I try to be like, well, what if somebody really cool,

like sends me a DM? And I'm like, you have a team that can look at that for you. And that's their job and they can handle that. And I do think, you know, it is good every now and again, like once I run my race and I'm done with my race, you know, I've already decided that I will post after my race, you know, that I've accomplished that. Cause, you know, that I've accomplished that,

because, you know, I was fearful to like put that out there, but then I was like, I know this is gonna be good to put it out there because every show, I have somebody asking me if I'm still running that race. And so I'm like, ah, you know, that's out there. So for me, that's good, but I was like, I'll post, I wanna update them on the race of people that have been invested in that, but that's it for the year for me.

I've kind of decided like, I- And team is posting stuff for you. My team will post stuff and they have to because, you know, with the record and, and then I've got new music coming out and just stuff like that and shows. And, you know, for me, but I'm like, Morgan, you know, you've got it. And then I was like, no, it's fine. Like, it's to connect with people. And I can get on there every now and again.

And I could go post for my manager's phone or send them what I want them to post. But I don't need to read that. And you know, I'll get people, it's like, you never responded to comments. I'm like, man, I can't read those. Because while there's, there could be a million nice things, those three people that want to attack me,

that have no idea who I am, I'm going to focus on those. And I was like, those people don't matter in my life. You know, they're dealing with their own stuff. And it's a gender, I mean, it has honestly nothing to do with me. They're just, they're dealing with something. And so they're on the internet putting other people down. Yeah, Johnny Cash's manager told him one time, you have to have like a vault that no one can get in.

And that's what the stillings would call this, the sort of the inner Citadel. You have to have this thing that protects the main thing that you do. You're sort of sense of self, you're sort of creative gift, what you're trying to say. And the problem with social media is it's not only threatens that it's the opposite of that. It's an infinite amount of people. And you're better off just focusing on what you do. Because I find that sort of self-consciousness is the enemy of most creativity. Oh yeah. So what are they going to think about this, right? Am I coming off the way that I want to come off? That's taking you out of what you're supposed to be doing, which is like, what do I have to say here? Do I think this is good? Is this exciting? Is this interesting to me? And did

I say what I wanted to say? Yeah. And obviously feedback is important because you're not just making it for you. But you can't open yourself up to unlimited feedback from the world. No, and that's, you know, I was like a week ago, my siblings came to show and they're all younger and the five-year-old, like I just watched her and she just, she does what she wants. And she says things and she's just like happy and I'm like, man, don't lose it. Yeah, okay. Because I'm like, I was like that at one point too. And like she just, it's so excited to just like go do things. And they just, they're not worried about

what I'm thinking or what anybody else is thinking. And it's just sometimes like really good for me to be around that and witness that again. Because we get so caught up and you know like I've got a song on the new record called 27 Club and I I wrote it and I put it on there and I recorded it and everything was mixed and mastered and was being pressed and I got it in my head one day that was too vulnerable. I needed it gone. And I like freaked out about it. I called my manager.

I'm like, this has to go. And they're like, it's already, and I was like, I don't care. I don't care. I want it gone. I don't care what it cost me, what I lose. I want it gone. Like I can't, you know, and it turned out to be

one of everyone's favorite songs on the whole record. And it was the most vulnerable thing on there, but it was like freaking out about it. I was like, I don't want it out there. I'm worried what everyone's gonna think because for me, that song was so metaphorical and showing where I'm at in my life. And I'm like, I don't want that attention

that this song's gonna bring. I don't want to deal with that. And it ended up being like, well, it's too late and then it turned out to be the best the best thing for me But yeah, isn't the point of music to be vulnerable. It is and something but even you know like I was like this was too much You know this was too and then I was like did you do that with your first record? It's like no you didn't because That's the thing about a debut record as you put it out and if it flops Well, no one knows because it's your debut record

He didn't have all those people, but you know with the second one there's there's more eyes on it Yeah, if you're first one did really good. Yeah at the beginning you're just like I hope someone will see this right Yeah, and I you know moving forward. I had to kind of I had to take a minute So I'm putting out an acoustic record and I said down and I've written all these songs by myself and it's just me and a guitar and You know, we've put some strings on it and like piano, but it's just it's acoustic It's just like really chill and it's focused on the song right again for me and you know I kind of just hit this place to I've toured relentlessly

all year and it's been great. But you know, I feel like it was just the same. I was doing a lot of the same things. And so I had to kind of take a step back and be like, why did you start doing this? Where's that hunger? Because, you know, now I'm doing what I'm doing great. You know, I'm making money and I'm finally, I'm able to, you know, buy a house and a nice car and I've got all this stuff. But I'm like, what are you, what are you doing? Are you happy? And, you know, it's like, I look, I'm like,

man, you have all these things and the shows are great. And I do love playing the shows. That's not even an issue, but it's like, are you hungry anymore? Are you hungry for it? Because I'm like, I look back at when I lived in a one-bedroom cabin, paying $500 a month for all my bills and barely able to do that

and driving a shitty car with no AC and like going and playing these shows and making no money, but I was hungry and I was excited. Yeah, I was like, you gotta like get back to that and not get so caught up in what it and I remember I was like I didn't care what anybody thought. Yeah, I would go out there and open for these people and I walk out there Just me and a guitar and so That's why I decided to go do this acoustic. Because when I started thinking like that again, I went and wrote 25 songs and all by myself.

And there are, literally some of the best songs I've ever written in my life. And, you know, I took them to the label, I sent them like three of these songs. And they're like, this is amazing. Like, you know, you got to see, oh Sony, calling you like, this is the best stuff I've ever heard. Like, you got to see, oh, Sony, calling you,

like, this is the best stuff I've ever heard. Like, this is raw emotional. He's like, people were crying in the meeting. And so I really, I was like, okay, you gotta like, get back to that, stop worrying, whatever body else was thinking. This was also during the same period of time that I was off the internet.

Yeah, sure. And I was like, more responsive to like emails, because it was like emails was all I internet. Yeah, sure. And I was more responsive to emails, because it was like emails was all I had on my phone, and normally I hate checking emails, so my manager's like, you're really on top of things these days, because I wasn't distracting and worrying about what everybody else was saying, because of saying people that want to talk shit

about me on the internet, it made me feel bad about myself. If they see me on the street, they want to talk shit about me on the internet, it made me feel bad about myself. If they see me on the street, they want to talk to me. And I'm like, okay, so what does it, what does it matter? You know, they're not, they, it doesn't. And at the end of the day, you really just have to like start focusing. And that, that's such an issue for me is like just focusing on the present moment as well. But when I started to like let that self go or let all that go, you know, I started to feel better. And then of course I fell back in the reading stuff on the internet. And now I'm back off of that.

And I'm doing a lot better. Well, that's, I think what he meant by having the vault is you have, you know, now you have money, you have space, you have people are interested in what you're doing. That's like, that's what success is, but you still have to figure out how to preserve the original space or like childlike state that the stuff comes from. Like for me with the daily stock, you know,

it started with a couple of thousand people. And now I send out this email every day to 700,000 people. And so if I think about that too much, it changes what I'm willing to say, what I won't say. You know, if I read whether people liked today's email or not, like everyone, so I'll get emails from people I know, like they'll, they'll forward the email back to me and be like, Hey, I like this one. And that means something to me.

Yeah. But like, I mean, just think if 1% of the people didn't like today's even 99% of people liked it, but 1% didn't, that's 70,000, you know, 7000, right? 1% of 7000. Don't ask me. I'll play music, I don't believe my ass. But anyway, that's a lot.

That's more than you could possibly conceive of, right? And so, and if you got even 1% of, if you heard from 1% of 1% of people who didn't like you, the 1% people who didn't like you, it would crushed you. Mostly, you can't possibly let that in. And so you have to create this space. And that's also true. It's like you got to keep space from family and friends

and the annoying neighbor and that you're not feeling. You have to create this space that allows you to do what you do and it's weirdly harder to do the more successful you are because there's more stuff trying to get it. Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah. And so, you know, because two is like, I mean, I went to the airport the other day. Yeah, and so, you know, because two is like, I mean, I went to the airport the other day.

I landed in LA and there, you know, with all this crazy stuff going on in my life. I was at Paparazzi. Paparazzi, and I was by myself, and I've never dealt with anything like that. Sure. And I was like confused, because I'm like waiting. Of course, everybody's wanting to laugh and talk about

what I had on. I had on sweatpants and a t-shirt and a hat because, yeah, guys, I got up at 3 a.m. that morning. Yeah. You know, that flight, you know, I had had like an eight hour day already. Yeah. And I get off the plane and I'm getting my bags and I look out, I was walking and then there's this guy in my face

Asking me all this stuff and at first I was like quiet, but then I I looked at one point like man, um, you're giving me a panic attack and you like stop. There's nothing to do about it And I'm by myself. Yeah And later And all that like was out and I was like I got on to read the comments. Yeah, which I should not have done And they were awful. I mean from everything from my looks to how disgusting my tattoos are to have was out and I was like, I got on there read the comments, which I should not have done. And they were awful. I mean, from everything from my looks

to how disgusting my tattoos are, to how this empathetic, why would anybody who cares about her, she's piece shit, like all this stuff and I'm like, man, I don't, you know, and so I had to like take a step back and be like, but then I went and read some other articles of other people and I read the comments and they were all awful too

So it's like okay, well, we're all getting this shit We also got to think about who is leaving comments on the bottom of articles about like musicians or select like you realize it It's selecting for the most garbage have nothing to do with Then I started reading people are like well, they she called the pop the pop roti and they're still like, first of all, I'm some hillbilly from Virginia. I have no idea how that is. I want to be left alone. I'm like, if I call the pop roti on myself,

I'm not going to have on $8 sweatpants from Walmart that have a hole in them that I did not realize until I got to the airport because I got up at 3 a.m. There's just like, they's like that, but I was like, why do you care what someone who they don't understand the situation like what goes on and like what you deal with and they don't Quick-even them that time of day because they're living in your head and Honestly, it was kind of good for me because then I was like put your phone down

That was the big mistake of waking up this morning and going picking up your stupid phone. Like, get up, make your coffee and read. Like, stop, like putting that stuff in your head and people don't know. They don't know what the truth is, but you know what the truth is. And at the end of the day, in four days, they're going to be on to the next thing. They don't care about this. And it's easier said than done. There's something paradoxical about it though. I was just thinking about this, like I was going to the airport the other day and I was like thinking about what I was going to wear and I had to choose to wear a sweatshirt

because if I wear t-shirts, people see my tattoos and then they recognize me. Yeah. And I was like, well this sucks. Like I'm having to choose what I wear so I don't get bothered and I'm wearing a hat, I'm wearing a mask so I can just be in my space and not get talked to people,

talked to by people, which is sort of the preferred space for me. It's wonderful to talk to people. No, totally, I get it. But if I can avoid it, obviously I would. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah.

And you know what I mean? It's Yeah. And you know what I mean? It's a champagne problem, but it's still like weird. Right, and that's the thing, is that because that's how it was. Like people think that I called this, or like, you know, someone else called this on me, I'm like, I didn't want to do that. I mean, I was like, and then everybody's like,

look how mad she looks. Like, and I'm like, I didn't know they were even looking at me guys. I'm sorry, that's my face. I was, I was irritated that my bags were taking so long. And I'm like, if you would have looked at anybody else standing around there, like, I was tired. I had, and I was like, who cares?

Who cares? And that's such like a hard thing. Also, you should just don't get a throat tattoo. Because like, if I was trying, I would have to turtleneck and gloves over here. Because what happens is like people vaguely understand, they're like, I think that's that person. But then if you have distinguishing marks,

it's definitely that person. Yeah, and it's, you know, and people are like, who cares about this? Who even is this? And I'm like, okay, I don't care if you know me or not. I would rather you not know me if you're gonna talk like that anyways. But it's like, you know, I'm working on okay, I don't care if you know me or not. I would rather you not know me if you're gonna talk like that anyways, but it's like, you know, I'm working on a docu series.

And a lot of people were like, who would even watch this? And so then that gets in my head, but I'm like, okay, well, don't watch it. Then like, I mean, everybody kind of has to start somewhere. And I'm like, I have a fan base that will be interested in this. And if you're not interested in that, that's fine. I'm probably not interested in what you're interested in. You know, it's just a lot, all this,

and I look back at most of the issues that I have had with, you know, becoming more successful is the internet. It's not the amazing fans that come to my shows and they spend their hard earned money to buy my stuff and listen to this and allow me to do this. It's not those people, because those people are great. And I'm always gonna and listen to this and allow me to do this. It's not those people because those people are great. And I'm always going to want to listen to them. And those are the people that I do want to know their opinions on things because

I'm like, they've been with me the longest and they're, you know, there for me. And they get me and we're connected. I really do feel that connection with them. I was like, who cares about the people who literally don't even follow you. They're just coming to your page to ridicule you. When I was thinking about that, I was going to the airport. I was like, but I chose this. Like exactly.

Like it's not just I chose it. I could shut it down in two seconds. I just stopped posting shit and go back to writing my books and authors never get recognized, right? And so it's like, it's for me, like you said, yeah, when my books were just working and it was just the books, you know, it'd be like once a month someone would be like,

are you Ryan Holley? Cause who makes it all the way to the fucking back of the book and reads the thing? It was with social media, which was a deliberate choice that suddenly millions and millions of people are seeing you on this. And so it's like, it's this thing where I'm not resenting it,

but I'm like, it's making me uncomfortable. I'm not liking it, but I also fucking chose it. And so that's this weird thing that we do to ourselves. That's what you deal with. And that's what people, they're like, well, you chose this. And I'm like, yeah, you're not wrong. I did, but I don't think, because, don't think, because at the beginning of my career, I was like, man, that had to be so cool.

Like, have somebody like taking photos, especially when you're a little kid, and you're playing the true rock star, whatever. And you're like, oh no, no, no, don't take. And then I'm like, yeah, well, that's not actually how that works when you, you know, it's just like stuff like that. And I'm not, then too, it makes me have a lot more respect and understanding, because now, when you see

like these tabloids and this stuff that I used to be like, oh yeah, like look at what the, and then now I'm like, yeah, you know, that's probably not even real. Right. That's probably not even real. And so now I don't click on that stuff anymore about other people, because I'm like, yeah, I'm not giving you that click that you need,

because half of this probably isn't even true. And, you know, who cares? Like this is a real person. I don't care if they are, you know, Uber famous and like they do something. I'm like, somebody down the street or someone that's in that grocery store beside of you has done something really stupid probably, but it's not on the internet and not you know millions of people aren't looking at that and we are at the end of the day all connected. Go SoundReal. At least as a journalist that's what I've always believed. Sure, odd things happen in my childhood bedroom, but ultimately, I shrugged it all off.

That is, until a couple of years ago, when I discovered that every subsequent argument of that house is convinced they've experienced something inexplicable too, including the most recent inhabitant who says she was visited at night by the ghost of a faceless woman. And it gets even stranger. It just so happens that the alleged ghost haunted my childhood room might just be my wife's great-grandmother. It was murdered in the house next door by two gunshots to the face. From Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios comes Ghost Story, a podcast about family secrets

overwhelming coincidence and the things that come back to haunt us. Follow Ghost Story on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes ad-free right now by joining Wondry Plus. Psst! Hey you! Yeah you! I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. Jiffy is the fastest and easiest way to get jobs done around the house. Just hop on the Jiffy app, choose from the 40-plus services, and bam, you'll be matched with a reliable Pro in seconds. Windows and Eves cleaning, check, YAR cleanup, check.

Plumbing, you guessed it, they've got it all. Plus, all jobs come with a satisfaction guarantee. Download the GIFI app or sign up at jiffyondemand.com and don't forget to use the code first for $25 off your first job. and don't forget to use the code first for $25 off your first job. Yeah, I think the same thing that makes someone an addict or makes them, you know, there's part of that I think in every artist, some desire to be validated and known and understood. So it's this, it's this kind of, I wouldn't call it an original sin, but it's, there is this,

this thing in it and then you get it and then you're like, either, I of, I wouldn't call it an original sin, but there is this thing in it, and then you get it, and then you're like, either, I think you get it, and then you're like, oh, that didn't actually do for me what I thought it would do for me. Right. And now it's just, it's not an inconvenience, but now it's just this thing.

Like, it's like, you did this thing in Hawaii, the sailors introduced these rats, right? The rats would come off the ship, so they had all these rats. So then the people in Hawaii were like, well, we gotta get something that eats the rats. So they introduced these ferrets or these mongoose. And then it turns out the rats are nocturnal

and the ferrets lived during the daytime. They don't even, but the point is, but now they have a ferret problem also, right? And it's kind of like that. You think that, hey, if I get to this level, I do this thing, it's gonna fix this problem. Right. And then it does it, and now you just have

this other fucking thing. It's in it too. You know, it's, like you said, it's a champagne problem. And it's like, you don't like it when things aren't going good. Or, you know, they're going bad, but when, you the attention is making things great. They're like oh, that's great You know, and it's like we don't get to choose how things go and so it is but again like yeah, it it you The people that and that's the thing you got to focus on the people that support you and the reason that you're doing this because that That all goes back to to like, you know

Maybe in a fried put 27 club out, I'm like, the people that connected with that song are because they're going through it. And I'm like, okay, even if, you know, only one person connected with that song, and it helped one person, hell yeah. You know, in the same with the docu-series, I'm like, if one person watches that

and is like intrigued by that and enjoys it, and it helped them in some way, or goes and runs a race or goes and does something proactive like with the double mastectomy or like figures more out about their health and I'm like, hell yeah, I help one person. And, you know, Well 27 clubs are great song and it's probably partly, I mean, the 27 club is probably rooted kind of in what we're talking about in a sense of like why musicians tend to die at that age or before that age is you think getting that success or fame or money or whatever it's, it's going to fix you. Yeah. And it doesn't. It doesn't fix you because

you're never going to fix inside stuff with outside stuff. No, and that's, you know, that's such an issue for me too, is I look. And I have to remember that too, even with the ultra running or whatever. I'm like, the gym's not going to fix you. You still have to. If they do the work, you have to do the work. That's helping you for sure. And I, you know, to be healthy and to do these things, but it's still, yeah, it's all that the mental work and the inside work, the soul work is the hardest and it's the one I typically am like, ugh. Yeah, I mean, it's easy. It seems crazy to say, maybe even a little, but it's like, it's easier to go get famous or to make a lot of money or to sell a lot of records or sell a lot of, it's actually easier to do that shit than which the odds

are infinitesimal of being able to accomplish, right? Like how many people are trying to do those things and don't? It's actually easier for some people, for people like us, to do that, then to sit quietly in a room alone and do the other work. It's way harder. Yeah, and for sure, and yeah, it is definitely way harder to do that, it feels like. Well, it's way harder also because how do you know if it's working?

And nobody's scrapping for you as you're doing. Exactly, and that's the thing that it's like, you have to remind yourself because it's crazy too, because it's like, I get off the stage. And you have to understand, right before COVID, I mean, I finished recording reckless a week before the lockdown. And I was just like, okay, what, you know, what?

And of course, at that time, I'm like, I get a week off, you know, like whatever. But before that, I had not played any headline shows. I was not selling anything out. I was lucky to make $200 a show, maybe 500, you know, that I split with a band like. And then coming out of that in the first show I played, coming back, the release show, two sold out shows. Right. And so it was very like different for me.

I went into COVID, nobody really knew who I was. And I don't want to say that in a bad way. I had a good following. Sure. But it wasn't like it is now. And fortunately for me, I still have those fans and they were great and they helped support me through COVID with the Facebook Lives and all that,

but it wasn't like it is now. And so coming out of that, and then I'm like selling out shows and I do my first headline run and it's sold out like and upgraded and just like crazy. And then it's like, so you go and you, you know, you work all day and you go and you play for an hour and a half, two hours, and then you go get on the bus, it's just silent. Yeah. And it's like, it's weird. And when I came off of that tour and I went home, it was like

I was excited to go home, but at the same time, it's weird to not have people, you know, a couple thousand people telling you how much they love you every time. And it's weird to not have people, you know, a couple thousand people telling you how much they love you every night. And it's like this weird feeling. It's like you want that stuff. So it's like figuring out, you know, in therapy, I'm like, I'm trying to figure out how to balance that home life, road life, because it's not, I'm like, I mean, I think everyone has narcissistic tendencies. I mean, you take a selfie and post it on the internet. You're not posting the ugly selfie. You're posting it.

Thank you. Look good. I mean, come on. I can take him five and you're picking the one you look best in. Exactly. Like, we, I do that. I'm not going to, you know, so it's like you have these tendencies, but it's, yeah, going, going, kind of, you know, going back to that.

It's just like, I think you have to find that balance no matter what you're doing. Is that what the home sick, road sick? Yeah, for sure. And it's just like when you're home, man, I talked to all artists deal with this. It's just like, because I love touring, I do.

And connecting with these people and it's playing and seeing people seeing these songs that you've written when you're dealing with such a difficult time singing that back to you crying and like having that moment, you can't replicate that. I mean there's just nothing else like that and it makes you know some small town kid like me growing up in the middle of nowhere, sit back and be like, wow. And so, you want that, and you love that, you crave that. And then it's like, but you also, you miss home

when you're out there, and you really, you miss home. And it's like, it's hard, it's a lot, you know, especially my band, like they've got kids, they've got wives, and I see, like, how difficult that is for them to be gone. And then it's like, you go home, and I'm home. And then it's like you go home and I'm home and then I start getting like, okay, I haven't done anything of it.

I need to get back out there and it's like this tug, you know, tugging and that's why like next year touring, I've kind of like found like, for the headline tour, let's do like three weeks on and like two weeks off and then like another three weeks on, like something like that versus, I mean, we were gone for like two months, just straight no breaks.

And that's a little harder, but it's like kind of finding that balance, but it is totally like, it's a weird feeling because I'm not hungry, I'm so grateful for everything, and I'm so blessed because it's like, what, the moment that you, the more negative stuff, when everybody's coming to your

page and doing that, I mean, you know, the same, no publicity is bad publicity. And you know, again, people, I'm like, people think I'm that smart to even know how to do any of that stuff. I'm like, man, come on. But it's just like, yeah, it's a bit of tug-and-war, but again, it all comes back. Everything from me has circled back to balance. And I think that's been,

this year has been such a learning curve for me, and the one thing that continually comes back to my mind is balance. Yeah, there's a tension where, like, when I'm at home and I'm in my rhythm, and I'm getting to do the routine exactly as I like it every day. I'm gonna see my kids spending time together. I can feel the relationship getting better and then I'm like this is how it's supposed to be. My work is better.

Like I didn't I didn't go anywhere for 500 days and go like I didn't travel for work for 500 days or so. It was like holy shit. This like, I'm operating on a whole other level. Everything in my life is working. And then you're like, but I gotta get back on the road. Like, you know, then, then you're like, someone wants to pay me somewhere to not do this? Yes, you know? And so you have these two parts of yourself,

this part that knows what's working and knows what's better. And then you have this other part that needs to do this thing, both professionally and in its own way personally. Right. And yeah, the balance of it is so tough. It's interesting. And I think everyone deals with that in some sense. You know, we all have what we have to do.

And then the things that we like feel like we want to do. You have your job and then you've got this. But then it's like we're, we feel like we're, do. You have your job and then you've got this, but then it's like we feel like we're being pulled to different ways. And again, that looks different for everybody. But it's hard to calculate the opportunity costs, right? So it's like you're going on the road and you're like, this is what I'm making being on the road.

This is good. But what's harder to calculate is when I'm home, I'm writing better, I'm happier. I'm writing better, I'm happier. I'm sleeping more, I'm eating better, you know, I'm on a schedule and two like... That's worth something. That's worth so much. And I had to really sit back as I go into the next year because I did a lot this past year of saying yes. And I really even talked about shows. I talked about other things that I was saying, and I was just wearing myself then.

And like right before the record came out, there were like two days where it was just like stack, stack, stack, stack. And you know, I had to get up extra early. It was like, all right, if I wanna work out today, which I do, and I have to do that, I have to get up at 3.30 this morning. I have to do all this stuff.

And then I'm still working until 11 p.m. tonight doing these things. And I look back and I'm like, you know, you wouldn't have worn yourself that then, say no. And I look, and that kind of all came to me as well when I was like looking back at the things that I, you know, the way I used to operate before things really took off for me is I'm like, you know, you didn't have as many things

to say yes to. You thought you were good at saying no, but it's actually just burping attitude. And so now I'm like, I'm like, hey, you can't say yes to everything, you can't be so accessible. And that's probably, I can reach anybody right now off that phone. And so, you know, that's, but I look back in, you know, this last year,

I missed three weddings of people very close to me, going to play shows. And I'm like, I don't really even remember those shows or how much money I made, but I'm like, I do remember seeing my whole entire family together three separate times, and we rarely get to do that. We don't get to do that. I'm like, I'm gonna miss, I missed out on that.

And you know, and so to me, it was like, I had this amazing show, and I'm very, very blessed, but I'm like going into this next year, I have to make time for my family. And my fans tell me that all the time, they're like, they literally, and that's what's so great about, they'll come to VNP and they're like, they'll be like, hey, you should make some time for yourself.

Yeah. Which I think is amazing that they're saying that. When you're in your head, you think like saying no, like you're gonna disappoint people. And like saying no like you're going to disappoint people and then you in it's only in retrospect that you realize nobody gives a shit like like when I ask people to do stuff and they say no or they don't respond you know what I think about it I don't think anything right you're like okay yeah 20 people and eight said yes I'm I'm thinking about the eight people that said yes right in that you know, and that's why I'm like, in this next year, I was like, I only want

to, I have a list of like interviews I'd like to do or appearances that I can make. Like, I'm like, I want to work towards those, but not just do, you know, if that, that's the thing to him. Like, only go do things that mean something to you and that you're interested in. I did a lot of things this year that I was like, oh, I don't wanna do this. And I'm like, why are you doing it then? You don't get that time back.

And I do agree on pushing yourself sometimes. And sometimes it is good to go to do these things, but I'm also like, there's so many things that this is such a good opportunity. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna be miserable. So I'm like, I don I'm gonna be miserable So I would I'm like I don't care if You know that you know this could have been a amazing opportunity and like boosted my career million points But I'm gonna be miserable. I'm like I would rather go do something that means something to me and I think we

I really have to focus on trying, again, balance. It's all balance. When my books first started to sell, I met this sports psychologist who works on all his baseball teams. And he gave me this amazing advice. He was like, look, he's like, when guys first make it, especially the guys that come from like South America

or Costa Rica or these other countries, he's like, they got there because they fucking swing everything. He's like, there's there because they fucking swing at everything. He's like, there's even a saying from like the Dominican Republic that you don't walk off the island. And like you hit, you have to hit right, you hit at everything. You don't get there by being walked, right?

And he's like, but as soon as you get in the league, he's like, it's all about pitch, or it's all about swing discipline or pitch discipline. It's all about what you don't swing at. Because the best people in the world are throwing pitches at you to try to trick you, if I could win. Oh, yeah, for sure.

And so he's like, it's all about saying no. He gave me this sign that in my office, it's between two pictures of my kids. And so it was one on the top, one on the bottom, and the middle, it's just this sign that says no. Like capital letters, no. Because when you're saying yes to stuff, it's not just you're saying yes to stuff,

and now you're busy. You're saying yes to stuff, and by definition, everything you say yes to is saying no to something else. And a lot of times, that's not a different opportunity that could be worth more. You're saying no to yourself, like to your mental health, your physical health, your creativity, to just happiness and enjoying the success that you have.

Right. And so you have to get so good at saying no, or I wouldn't say I'm good at saying no, but I'm good at just not responding. I got way better at just ignoring it and a lot of times it goes away. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Napoleon had this policy of he would sometimes open his mail like three weeks late because by the time he opened it a lot of things would have resolved for themselves. Right.

Yeah. And that can be true. When people are offering you stuff with deadlines, you're like, you know, if I just respond like a week later after. Yeah. Oh, sorry, I missed it. Yeah. For sure.

It's, of course, better. It's better if you have the confidence and the security and the up frontness to be like, can't do it, but you don't have to. Yeah. And you don't have to appallate. That's the other one. Someone told me two things.

One, which is like, you don't have to say sorry. When you give an explanation, what you're often doing is asking them to argue with you. And then the other thing they told me was like, you don't owe anyone a response. Like if someone sends you an unsolicited inquiry, like you don't owe them, stewing about it, thinking about it, justifying why you can't, you didn't ask for it. Exactly. Yeah. You can just pretend you didn't get it. Right.

That is very good advice. Yeah. What? We're going to wrap up. Oh, okay. All right, cool. But you have that great line. It was in psychopathry, say it's a rule down south that you can't talk about your mental

health. The night. Yes. It's hard to talk about this stuff. Yeah. Because it's vulnerable. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it really, it really is in like growing up to around these, you know, these Southern, like the Southern men in my life. But even so, you know, more of the women, obviously my mom was much more of asking me about things,

and talking about stuff with the men, especially my grandpa and then they grew up. They did not have therapists. They were lucky to have food on the table. So it is, but I do think things are getting a little better with that, because we're talking about it more. And that's the biggest thing. But even then, talking about stuff, I don't know how many therapy sessions it took for me

to really be like, okay, I'm going to like actually be openly honest, like, and actually in depth with you about what's really going on now. Yeah. I know. I hate this bullshit that like Gen Z and millennials are fragile and they have all these mental health issues. It's like, just because you didn't treat your alcoholism or your anxiety or your depression, doesn't mean you didn't have it.

That I would argue that people are no more or less unhealthy than they've ever been in history. It's just people are actually doing something about it. And by the way, part of the reason we have these issues is because you didn't deal with your issues and your parents didn't deal with their issues. And it's a chain of stuff for it. It just, I mean, the thing is,

no matter what century you're in, like we talked about it earlier, like, you have, there's a whole new set of issues going on. Yeah. Yeah. It's, but people are people and have the same fucking problems that they've always had. Right. For sure. Well, this was amazing, thanks.

Yeah. No, thanks man. Appreciate you having me. You're welcome. Thanks for making the time. Yeah. For sure. Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic early and ad free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad free with Wondery

Plus in Apple podcasts. Okay. So if you had a time machine, how far in time would you need to go back to be a dominant basketball player of that? I need to go to when Bob Coosie was playing back in the plumber day, 27 year old Shay with give Bob Coosie the business. He's not guarding me. Hi, I'm Jason. Get some sound. And I'm Shay Serrano and we are back. We have a new podcast from Wondering. It's called Six Trophies. And it's the best.

Each week, Shay and I are coming through all of the NBA storylines finding the best, most interesting, most compelling ones and then handing out six pop culture themed trophies for six basketball related activities. Trophies like the Dominic Toretto, I live my life on quarter-mile at a time, Trophie, which is given to someone who made a short-term decision with no regard to future cons Twence. Or the Christopher and all-entendent trophy, which is given to someone who did something that we didn't understand. Catalina Wine Mixer trophy. The Lauren Hill you might win some, but you just lost one trophy. Follow six trophies on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Equals to six trophies and free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

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