The Daily Stoic - NFL Cornerback Jeff Okudah on Achieving Greatness

Episode Date: July 17, 2021

On today’s episode of the podcast Ryan talks to NFL cornerback Jeff Okudah about how to manage high expectations and criticism, how to recover from injury and over-training, why reading is so important and how books can change your life, and more. Jeff Okudah is an American football cornerback for the Detroit Lions of the NFL. He played college football at Ohio State, where he was named a unanimous All-American and a finalist for the Jim Thorpe Award in 2019 before being selected by the Lions third overall in the 2020 NFL Draft.Get the books mentioned in this show: The Alchemist, Mastery, Letters To A Young AthleteAthletic Greens is a custom formulation of 75 vitamins, minerals, and other whole-food sourced ingredients that make it easier for you to maintain nutrition in just a single scoop. Visit athleticgreens.com/stoic to get a FREE year supply of Liquid Vitamin D + 5 FREE Travel Packs with subscription. Talkspace is an online and mobile therapy company. Talkspace lets you send and receive unlimited messages with your dedicated therapist in the Talkspace platform 24/7. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to Talkspace.com or download the app. Make sure to use the code STOIC to get $100 off of your first month and show your support for the show.LinkedIn Jobs is the best platform for finding the right candidate to join your business this fall. It’s the largest marketplace for job seekers in the world, and it has great search features so that you can find candidates with any hard or soft skills that you need. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit linkedin.com/STOIC to post a job for free. Streak is a fully embedded workflow and productivity software in Gmail that lets you manage all your work right in your inbox. Sign up for Streak today at Streak.com/stoic and get 20% off your first year of their Pro Plan.Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: http://DailyStoic.com/signupFollow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, and FacebookFollow Jeff Okudah: TwitterSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoke podcast early and add free on Amazon music download the app today Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoke each weekday We bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stokes Something to help you live up to those four stoic virtues of courage justice up to those four stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview stoic philosophers. We explore at length how these stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time.

Here on the weekend, when you have a little bit more space when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal, and most importantly to prepare for what the week ahead may bring. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wendery's podcast business wars. And in our new season, Walmart must fight off target, the new discounter that's both savvy and fashion forward. Listen to business wars on Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic podcast. I don't know about you, but sometimes it hits you. Not how old you are, but just how easy you could sort of get lost in your conception of time. There's this great story of Seneca where he's visiting one of his properties. And the trees are getting old and the house is falling apart and there's this old guy working on him and then it hits Seneca. He planted those trees himself. And now they were old and the house is falling apart and there's this old guy working on them and then it hits Seneca. He planted those trees himself.

You know, and now they were old and dying and he just realizes how old he is in this moment. Everyone's all, I have a moment, I'll talk to someone and I'll have to look them up and whatever I'll see when they're born. And it just gives you, he's just like, oh man. Today's guest was born in 1999. So this is far and away, the youngest guest

on the Daily Stoke podcast, if I'm not forgetting anyone, it just hit me, I mean, I know I'm only in my early, early to mid-30s, whatever you wanna call it, but just seeing 1999 and remembering very distinctly the year 1999 and how old I was in that year and I remember I just have memories of of you know December 1999 January

2000 you know and you're having to write the year 2000 you know on your school papers or whatever for the and and what a huge transition that was because before you'd be like 96 and then it become 97 and 97 become 98 but it's like wow the millennium and pretty incredible that I am talking to someone who's 1999 and that person is a second year veteran of the NFL. There's something about sports to is a second year veteran of the NFL. There's something about sports too, I saw a meme about this where it was like, and now comes the grizzled old veteran

who's your age, or as you get older, like half your age, and you watch, you realize, as this does say, the constant rhythm of time, how time is passing this by, we're always moving forward, we're getting older every minute, every day a Sunday, because as dying every day, I don't know,

that was just some interesting thoughts I had as I was prepping for this intro. My guest today, I actually met when Adam Lefko, the sports announcer and commentator, sent me a screenshot of the fact that today's guest had been reading stillness is the key. Jeff Okuda is a cornerback for the Detroit Lions in the NFL. He played at Ohio State.

He was a unanimous All-American, a finalist for the Jim Thorpe Award. And he was selected third overall in the 2020 NFL draft by the Lions. He is one of the most promising cornerbacks in the NFL, largely considered the best cornerback prospect in the game when he was drafted. His rookie year was obviously thrown off kilter by COVID. He soldiered through,

he missed the first game of the season, actually with a hamstring injury. That's actually one of the things we talk about in today's episode. How do you manage insane expectations for you? How do you manage criticism and doubt? And then also how do you recover from injury? How do you figure out how to train? How do you worry about overtraining and burnout?

I really, really enjoy this interview. Jeff and I had an awesome conversation. I got really into it. And it was just really encouraging and exciting to talk to someone with such a great head on their shoulders. Someone who is clearly committed to not just being the best at one element of their profession,

but really optimizing themselves completely. Epic Titus quoting Socrates says, some people delight in improving their fortunes or their farms. He says, me, I delight in my own improvement day to day. I think that captures Jeff well. And so I was not just excited to talk to him, but I came away feeling very inspired. It's going to sound a bit condescending, but you know, you talk to a young kid. I'm sure people have felt this talking to me or maybe the opposite of talking to me. You talk to a young person and you're

like, these kids are all right. They're gonna be fine. It gets you excited about what Gen Z is going to be able to do. And I think, I think, Jeff is a person who has not just a ton of potential, but as you'll see in today's episode, a ton of stuff to teach us, I think you're really gonna like this. We got into a ton of really great books

that I think you should read. I'm following up with this list with him as well. A bunch of the titles I carry at the painted porch. So you can check the show notes, the episode description on iTunes or Spotify or whatever and get some of the books we recommend, like the Intergame of Tennis and the Alchemists. You can get Mastery, of course, by Robert Green.

And a bunch of other awesome books. You can get those in the description at my store, the Payne and Port, or, of course, on Amazon. We'll have links to both. But Jeff is a big reader, and so we nerded out about some books. I think you'll like that. I would tell you to follow him on social media, but he deleted his Instagram. He does have a Twitter.

You can follow him at Jeff Akuda on Twitter. That's Jeff O.K.U.D.A.H. You can also watch him on TV this season, follow along. I think he's gonna have, I think it's gonna be his breakout year. And I think he's a kid to watch. So here's my daily stoke interview,

the one and only Jeffrey Kudah. Are you in Texas? Yeah, I'm in first-go Texas right now. Are you from here? How did you end up in Texas again? Yeah, I'm in first called Texas right now. Are you from here? How did you end up in Texas again? Yeah, I'm actually, well, I was born in New Jersey, but I was moved to Texas when I was 11. So I've been living in Texas ever since then,

Grand Prairie, Texas. Nice. How does it work in the NFL, like, sort of, season versus off season? I know this is technically, like, only your second off season or whatever, kind of your versus off season. I know this is technically only your second off season or whatever kind of your first off season. But how does it work? You're going back and forth for OTAs.

Is it different because of COVID? How does it work as the season starts to ramp up? Pretty much, the season concludes, whatever there is less, game may be. You pretty much do exit physical and it's like, go off and you do your own thing. Like, everyone kind of has like an individualized program. And then you report it back for OTAs, you know, some guys do the voluntary OTAs as optional. And there's like a three day mandatory minicamp, which everyone has to be present for. And then you go off and do your own thing again for like four more weeks.

And you come back for training camp and the ball gets rolling. So it's that sort of just starting to ramp up now, right? Like that you're starting to actually have to think about the season starting here in like two months, basically. Well, honestly, I'm thinking about the season probably since January, I think everything about the season starting right now, and it's probably a little bit too late. Okay. Like like the off season is weird for me. So like as a writer, I'm kind of always doing it.

Like I guess some writers are sort of like, I'm working on a book, I'm not working on a book. I kind of try to stay like at my fighting weight all the time, like try to sort of never think of an off season. Yeah. But, but what I do isn't physically draining the way that what you do is, so like, how do you balance like, yeah, you come off a season in January, you'd probably work out every day if you could. Like, how do you, I guess what I'm asking is like, how do you think about pacing yourself, your drive, your ambition to get better,

but then also not burning out or injuring yourself? See, that's actually the balance that I'm, you know, kind of figuring out right now, because, you know, in high school, middle school, college, it's kind of like, you kind of just grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, because obviously you're trying to get to the end game again to the NFL, but then once you get to the NFL, if you're just staying that grind more consistently,

you really just burn yourself out because the NFL season is really so long, it's strenuous on the mind, as well as the body, so I think you have to be able to sit down and be able to sit down and be able to identify like points where okay, let me kind of take my foot off the gas right now. Let me take a vacation here. Let me pull back on the workout here

because I mean, it's kind of like you gotta play the long game with it. Because if you can't play the long game, I mean, it's a long season. 17 weeks of just going at it with the best of the best, you have to be able to find that, you know, the happy place. Yeah, it is attention, right? Because you hear about, I don't know, like,

let's look at the NBA. You hear stories about like Kobe Bryant working out every day the off season coming in better shaped than he left, he's dropped thousands of free throws and three pointers or whatever. And then you also look at like this NBA season, where basically by the time they got to the finals because of the shortened and sort of

the also longer season last year, like almost nobody who is in like, like none of the All-Stars were still standing by the end of the season, just like injury after injury after injury, and they're thinking it's a result of like the compressed season and not enough recovery time. So how do you balance like you wanna get better, you don't wanna have downtime,

but then also knowing that like you need to have downtime. I think you find ways to get better than aren't necessarily physical, whether that may be reading, whether that may be talking to close family members, getting out things that you may have been internalizing throughout the year. That's always beneficial.

Honestly, I've probably done less physical work this off season, but I feel like I've been in a better physical shape than I was last off season. So it's a pretty kind of interesting thing to me right now because I'm trying to kind of grasp the concept of doing less, but like achieving more. No, I love that. There's actually this great passage in meditation, Mark. It's really says, you have to ask yourself at every moment, is

this essential? He says, because most of what we do is not essential. And then he says, when you eliminate the essential, you have the benefit, you get the double benefit of doing the essential things better. And I've got to imagine that given the conditioning that you've been on for most of your life at this point, you're probably not trying to cut weight or ad weight or ad physical school. You're probably spending time watching film or spending time thinking or planning

or as you said, like dealing with something in your personal life, that may give you more of an edge than an extra day in the weight room at this point. Exactly, I think once you reach the NFL for the most part, guys are pretty much almost at their physical peak. I mean, you're not gonna go from running

go four, five to a four, three, from the age of 22 to 24. So I think it's more about the maintain game. Are you able to maintain it and not reduce your level at lettucesum, which is fine different ways to maintain it. Maybe you might be able to increase it a little bit, but the gains are going to definitely reduce in that pro level as opposed to the gains

that you'll see on the collegial level. Yeah, and it's not like baseball or basketball where you, like you entered the league, having spent a considerable amount of time in college and a really good college program. So you didn't come in as like basically a high school senior. You, you, you are roughly what you're going to be physically, as opposed to like, yeah, coming into the NBA needing to add 30 pounds of muscle.

Exactly. Exactly. It is interesting too. Yeah. Like Tom Brady sort of leading the charge as far as football goes of like actually maybe less time in the gym period is the key. And it's more about cliability and sustainability and not putting need, if the season is 17 weeks of grinding

and then you're grinding on top of that, that's a good way to grind yourself into dust basically. Yeah, and I pretty much had to learn that the horror way. Last off seat was really weird with the whole pandemic because I really didn't have a feel of how things were also work out. So it kind of became almost a freestyle in a way, just kind of how do I prepare for the NFL? And you kind of, I mean,

for me, I felt like I overrepared, you know, I was trying to work out every single day. I was trying to do all this running. And, you know, my body was going through it when it came down to the season. I was already burnt out. I mean, I ended up having to get surgery on both of my groin. So I kind of had to learn to, you know, you got to pace yourself. And you want to peak at the right time.

I mean, if you peak in February, I don't think that it's considered a win. I think peaking right at the time, going to training camp, or even right before the season starts, that's where we can consider a win. Yeah, I was just reading this book about Floyd Patterson. It was the heavyweight champion of the world, right before Muhammad Ali. And he was telling this story about early in

his career, he had this older brother. They were both boxers. But, you know, sir, he had more potential than the brother, but you know, you always look up to your older brother. And it was like the day of a fight and he had done his conditioning and his brother showed up to the gym and was like, Hey, I'm going to go run five miles. You should come with me. And he said, No, I already have worked out. And his brother sort of, you know, started busting his balls about it. And so he went and he did another, you know, round of conditioning. And by the time he's in the ring later that night, he feels it like in the third or fourth round. He's just totally gassed.

And that struck me as an interesting sort of encapsulation of what we're talking about because when you are self-disciplined and when you're competitive and driven, it's almost harder to say no, I'm not going to do it. I've already worked out or to say no, I need to recover here. I need to rest. Then it is to go run five miles or go like it's easier to go to the gym than to stay home and be with yourself and be a little bit uncomfortable. Don't you think? No, not exactly. I think the big thing is just not really comparing your journey to the next man's journey. So just seeing, you know, like you said, be a competitive person, you might see one of your teammates

or maybe one of the guys in a gol against doing a crazy workout. And then you kind of feel like, man, I need to go outside and do a crazy workout too, but it's not really about that. Yeah, it's about, you know, focus on your own journey, staying your own lane, and focus on your own gains.

Yeah, social media plays a part in that too, right? Because every time, like, sort of the workout start, all these guys start posting these crazy beach workouts, and like everything on Instagram, and just like normal people, sort of see what their friends are doing on social media and it sort of warps and messes with their mind. I got to imagine seeing somebody doing something crazy, you feel like you have to do something, but their trainer could be a total quiet. No, honestly, this offseason, I've tried to keep my social media used to like a minimum,

you know, just getting off of that, and really just focusing on having a present mind, not really worrying about what the next man is doing, to really focus on myself, and I've just been able to see such a substantial growth in everything that I've been doing so far. It's also, I try to remind myself, like people are on different journeys, right? This is something I remember learning early as a runner, which is like, you know,

let's say you go to the some track and somebody's there when you get there and then you start running and now like, and then somebody else comes after you're going, all these people are different phases of their workout, but then you get like next to each other and suddenly you're like, well, why is this person passing me? Or do I need to go faster? Right? You have to, you, we're all running our own races, essentially, right? And so your race as a second year player

is different than the race of a 10 year veteran versus somebody who hates the game and is just coasting and collecting their paycheck versus, I don't know, some of these guys that are so driven and motivated that the game is the only thing that matters to them, right? And you kind of have to figure out like, one, what am I trying to accomplish?

Two, what makes me happy? Three, what's best for my body? And four, what does success look like to me? Does success look like having a long career? Is it a short career, is it Super Bowl or bust, would you consider yourself a success if you play 12 years, but you can barely walk afterwards, you got to figure out what success looks like to you. Yeah, and I think the biggest thing are one of the big things, it's multiple ways to

get to the final destination. I think everyone thinks that it's just one way to get to that final goal, which whatever your final goal may be. But I think you've seen countless stories of this guy might go to a junior college and then go to a division one school, then go to the NFL where this guy might go from a division one straight to NFL or this guy might start division one, stop playing football for a couple of years and still end up in NFL. I mean, there's multiple ways to get to that final destination.

So I think fix that in your mind on just it being one clear cut way to do it. That's the wrong way to approach it, man. Yeah, and especially when so much of it is outside of control. I mean, your first season's disrupted by a once in a hundred years pandemic, but also like, you know, how many guys, you know, pull something the first day of training camp where, you know,

somebody pulls something, you know, right before the Super Bowl, right? There's so much that's not in your control. You have to kind of, so the Stokes have this image that like that, that that were like dogs tied to a cart. Right? So the cart's just trucking along and we're trotting behind it. We can try to pull the cart, but we don't actually really control where it's going. So we're just going to strangle ourselves. Also we can resist, you know, you could just lay down and it'll drag you.

The idea is you kind of just cheerfully walk alongside as best you can. And I try to remind myself that we're not really in control of how it's happening, how fast it's happening, how long it's going to last. You just got to go along for the ride. No, definitely. I think something that my coach told me is off season

at the very start of it is a Bruce Lee quote where he was just like, be watered, just be able to adapt to different situations and not, you know, as water is able to adapt to or the anything you put it in, he said just kind of have that mindset because like you said, there's a lot of external things that are just out of your control.

So whenever something comes up to you to be able to adapt to it, you know, don't have your mind set on things to be a certain way because if that's your mindset, when things don't go the way that you plan for them to go, then it kind of puts you in a state of, you know, dysfunction. So I think having that mindset of, okay, this happened, okay, I'm going to adapt to this on the fly.

That kind of helps you, you know, be ready to embrace anything that comes your way. Yeah, although the great bill wall shed that individuals like water will always seek lower ground, right? So the problem with water too is water just goes wherever, you know, water goes to the weakest point or to the lowest point. So it's attention, but I do like, I do love that quote because the idea is, yeah, the other thing about water is not only is it adaptable, but you know, you drip water on a stone long enough, you know, steadily enough, it'll wear through anything. So there's also, you know, I think when people hear this idea of sort of resigning or going with the flow, that feels weak. And to some degree, it is, right? The stoics are kind of resigned to some things. But it's also incredibly strong because yes, you're not plowing through it with sheer

force, but steadily and consistently over time, you actually are, you know, sort of drilling down where you want to go. Yeah, I mean, if I sat down on January 1st and planned out how my year wasn't a go, I think I would be looking at Myself on December 31st like wow my year went nothing like I planned, you know, it was things that I couldn't have accounted for in that plan That came up along the way. So I think just having that mindset of you know, just taking things as they are embracing whatever comes I mean, that's that's been big. I mean that mindset, I think we've had a lot of discussions early on as when I was kind of getting to know the stoic beliefs and whatnot. Just learning all that stuff.

That was something that's been really helpful for me. Yeah, I remember it being sort of around your age and like, patience was like my huge weakness, right? Because like, you have so little experience. Like you've only, like what's the longest thing you've ever done, right? Like college, right? Like, you know, you've, we don't do things

for very long early in our life, you know, because we haven't been alive that long. But as you get older now, like, I've done stuff for 10 years, like, or, you know, because we haven't been alive that long. But as you get older now, like, I've done stuff for 10 years, like, or, you know, I've known this person for 15 years, right? You just have like a longer time span. I don't remember thinking at the beginning of the pandemic, some of these young athletes where they're like, no, you're gonna, like, the seasons delayed by four months. They're like four months. That's three percent of my life, you know. But I just remember being like so intense about everything and not being able to be patient.

And in retrospect, like it all worked itself out, I just wasn't used to like things taking longer than I wanted them to take. And that made me really unhappy and it probably also made me very unpleasant to be around. No, definitely. I think that, like you said, I mean, I don't know people always say, hindsight is 20, 20. A lot of the issues that, you know, might seem really big in the moment when you look back on it months from now and just they seem a little bit more

minuscule, you know, I mean, I know that I read, I read, I think stillness is the key. The one chapter you're talking about, the whole JFK thing, you know, when the problem, when he was liberating on what he was gonna do with the whole Cuban crisis, and then he kind of just took a step back and let the situation unfold, and then that deliberation right there

will actually let him to have a clear mindset. So the things that seem like, okay, in the moment, it's a big deal. They just had to end it. I'm not even being that big of a deal. I mean, they still were a big deal, but he was able to see it with a clear mind. And that must be extra hard for you because for most of your actual profession, when you're on the field, the moments that you're dealing with are like three seconds, you know?

Like you're having to react in like instant, instant, instant, it's all about your snap reflexes, like, you know, how quick can you do this? And then you, but also you have to step back and think about it in the context of a season and in the course of a career. And then also the course of a life as a human being. Yeah, and another thing I know that

is the whole zoom in out, you know, just looking at things with a zoomed out perspective, you know, that kind of just gives you more insight on, you know, how, like how menace, like I said, how menacequial things actually truly are. Got a quick message from one of our sponsors here, and then we'll get right back to the show. Stay tuned.

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how I built this, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon or Wondering app. Yeah, I think about it. It's like, weirdly, both are valuable. So it's like, sometimes you get to zoom way in. Like, what am I gonna do in the next five seconds? That's all. All I need, like, I was working out this morning.

It's like, I only have three reps left. It is extremely hard, but like, I can do one rep, I can do one more rep, and then I can do one more, and then this is over, right? And then, other times, you're in like the thick of something, and you have to zoom way, way out and think about it, like, am I gonna care about this in a year, or 10 years, or 100 years?

And so it's like, sometimes you gotta look look at it way up close and sometimes you've got to take the 10,000 foot view. No, definitely. I agree with that 100%. So you mentioned that sometimes training for you is not physical, it's mental. We got connected because I think you'd posted about stillness is the key, but you do seem to have a very active reading habit. So walk me through where that started with you

and the sort of journey you're on, educationally, as an athlete and a human being. Definitely, so growing up, I think I always love reading. I can elementary school, they used to have things in a summer where you read these books. Really, I think I always love reading. Like elementary school, they used to have things in a summer where you read these books. Really, I think I liked reading because when you read these books in elementary school, you go to the library and then it gave you like a sticker

and with a stick, you can take it to pizza hut. And we took the sticker to pizza hut, you get free pizza. And for me, I knew that was the only way that I was gonna get this free pizza. So I would always go to the library and I would read countless books like, I might go to library, grab 10 books,

and I would just knock out 10 books, take it back to library and get my free pizza. And then that habit, I probably stayed in that from like first grade to fifth grade. And then I don't know how to know where it just, I stopped reading. Maybe from sixth grade to probably 12th grade, I wasn't an avid reader anymore. So I wasn't, I just, I don't know, maybe with the sports and everything, I just stopped reading as much.

And so, honestly, I mean, you know, you know, that goes, you have this going on, that going on. I just stopped reading as much. And then, so when I got to college, um, things my sophomore year, one of my teammates was reading a book, Dear Martin, by a mixed tone, I believe. It was talking about a black kid who had gotten murdered. And it makes the book, which I'm trying to make sense of, you know, the assaults and justice that's going on.

And the unjustified arrest, I mean,, and the book was African American kid. That was going to IBD school, but still being racially profiled and whatnot. And that kind of caught my interest, but at the time, I was kind of like more of my speed reading fiction books. So for me at the time, I like reading fiction books and I like reading sport articles.

So I could read, it was weird. If you gave me a nonfiction book, I couldn't finish it. But if you just gave me like a 10 page sports article about any topic, I could finish that, because I just love sports so much. I could kill that. So what I did, I just when I players tribune and I just started reading, Swart, like the assays that athletes were right, I would just read them just. Sure. I was knocking out. And that was kind of my thing. And then after that, Michael Benning wrote a book. It was called Things That Make Why People Uncomfortable.

I had his brother on the podcast. Yeah, yeah, we talked about that too. I think earlier on in the year, he wrote a book, things that make why people uncomfortable. I mean, that book kind of just resonated with me because for me, it was kind of the, it was an athlete writing a book. So I'm like, and the title was kind of title, kind of just caught my eye to like, I don't know, maybe just being like maybe nights and at the time, I was like, things that make, well, make why people uncomfortable just, it's just, I was like, things that make white people uncomfortable just, I was kind of curious, like, what's the guy talking about? I just wanna see what he's talking about. So I read that book and those two books,

I might have read two more books, but those might have been the four books I read in college. And then I think when I left college, I was doing some interviews. And I like, when you're in college, like you're just in this like college grind, football, football, football, football. And sometimes you don't really get a chance to like, you know, honing on the school part of things

like you'd want to just because when the reality is that football grind is taking up a big chunk Your schedule when I got out of when I declared for the draft or whatever I was doing some interviews and whatnot And I was just noticing that my word choice like the addiction was just off I didn't I was My brain wasn't giving me the words that I wanted wanted me to have like Nah, this is kind of seeming almost not elementary,

but it's not as advanced as I'd like it to be. You know, I try to stay as sharp as I can mentally, which is kind of always been one of the things that I felt like has been my edge and my playing career. So, when the pandemic hit, there was nothing to do obviously. So, except sit at the house all day. And after a while playing video games, got boring and I was watching Netflix for a while. But then Netflix kind of loses its appeal

when that's like the only option that you have. I mean, when it's kind of something that you do because it's like a relaxation thing, it's different. But when it's like wake up and watch Netflix from sun up to sundown, it starts to lose its appeal. So I was like, let me just find a book that fits me, something that I would like. So the last dance was on at the same time and they were talking about Phil Jackson and the Bulls.

So I was doing my research on that and I figured out that Phil Jackson had wrote a book called 11 Rings. Such a good book. A great book. So I'm reading this book and it's the best of both worlds for me because like I said, I like reading about sports anyway. Right. So I'm like, wow, this book is amazing.

I can really dive into this one. So I read this book. It's talking about Kobe, talking about his time at Michael Jordan, the Shack feud, talking about his Zen-like approach to things. And at that point right there, that's when I was like, I don't know if someone's like, the old fire was ignited again, but I was like, okay, I think I'm back into this reading stuff again.

So I finished this book and then Rich Paul who runs my agency clutch. I was like, do you need books that I could read? He's LeBron James, he can get to, right? Exactly. I was like, do you need books that I could read that you recommend? Because I mean, had the time, I didn't know any, like, that was just the book that I've seen just because of last dance, but I'm looking for other books now and that can kind of, you know, keep my interest going. And I kind of want to venture off from that athletic side of it and just kind of start reading different type of books now and kind of expand my knowledge on everything.

So he's like, give this book, chop wood, carry water, a chance. Yeah. So I was, I was a little bit hesitant because that was the first book that I, that I've seen that wasn't that really like an athletic based book because like I said, the Michael Bennett book I read that one and then this Levin Rings book I read it. So now the child book, Kerry Water,

was a little bit outside the comfort zone. But when I started reading it, it was an easier reading than I thought. So I'm thinking that it being, I don't know, a book that's not really catered to the Ad Leipers say, I'll think that's going to be like a hard, you know, some of these know, a book that's not really catered to the Ad Leapers say. I'll think that's going to be like a hard, you know, some of these books are a little bit harder to digest. Sure. But I'm reading it. It was pretty, it was a pretty simple read,

pretty straightforward conceptually. And I learned a lot of like things that I felt like that I could, you know, plight in my life, you know, what he was talking about, comparison to this thief of joy, you're always building your own house, be where your feet are. And this things that I was like, okay, these are all things that I find pretty applicable to my day-to-day living. So I started reading these books, taking these notes. And after I read that book, I don't know, it kind of like puts you on a crepe for like,

all right, let me just find a book that's not too far away from this book, but it's pretty identical to this one, like where it's kinda, it was kinda fiction based still, so I wasn't completely in the nonfiction yet. So I read the alchemist. Oh, great book. So, but I'm doing my research, so I'm on Google doing my research,

like, let me make sure that I pick the right books because I don't wanna have a bad experience and then put this fire out. So I read the alchemist and that was a great book in itself. Pursuing your dreams, following what your heart desires, talking about how fierce the biggest obstacle that can prevent you from reaching your dreams,

always game back up whenever you knock down, get back up. And I think after that book, that's when I was like, okay, I'm ready for like some of the more, you know, serious books. I try to find another book like the Alchemist, but I couldn't necessarily find one. So I got back on Google, started looking to do my research on some books, and then stillness is the key popped up.

No way, okay. I was like, I was gonna ask you who recommended it. But you just found it right? Yeah, it was just random like random books like books like Chop, Like, Carrier Water, Chop Wood Carrier Water, books like the Alchemist. And I would just go through, or either of you is a little bit.

So I read stillness is the key. That was probably my first, you know, nonfiction, like completely enlightenment book. And I read that one. And that book just, I mean, it was like, That was probably my first nonfiction, completely enlightenment book. And I read that one and that book just, I mean, it was like, again, it wasn't as hard to read as I thought it was going to be. It was pretty simple, straightforward. I mean, I was posted to get on Instagram when I had Instagram at the time.

People were like, well, did you get rid of your Instagram? I wanted to ask you that. Yeah, I got off Instagram probably in February, just to kind of give myself more clarity, more peace of mind heading into the second season. So I love this. I love this so much for a bunch of reasons. One, very similar to my journey, I loved reading as a kid, but I loved Westerns and detective novels.

I loved stuff that was fun to read, but there wasn't anyone to be like, no, no, here's what good books are, right? Not that those other books aren't good, because I think anything you're reading is making you a better reader, and it's making you a lot of reading, and it's entertaining. It's certainly better than just about anything else you could do, but they weren't like, no, no, no, no, like here's the good shit. Exactly. But, and then I went through a period where I didn't read much in high school and then I really fell in love with reading towards the end of high school and then in college. But I love that one, you sort of, you were like, hey, like I want to be better at something. I want to be more articulate or I want to be more able to

express what I'm thinking or feeling. I want a mental edge. And so you started a journey, and then you asked for help on the journey from a smart successful person like Rich Paul. I love that, and I love that. You started from a zone of interest, which is sports, and then you expanded outwards.

Because I think one of the reasons people don't read is one reading is hard and harder for some people than others. But too, they don't really understand that they just haven't read books that they could do anything with. You know what I mean? Like, do you have to think about return on investment? If you're asking someone to spend a week of their time doing something and they don't get

anything out of it, it doesn't help them with who they want to be or what they want to do. They're like, what's the point of this? You know, so I love that that you just you focused on sports and and then you you expanded from there. I'm so glad we randomly got connected. Exactly. I think something that I had to realize for me like one of the obstacles, I mean, being a 22 year old, I'm probably on my phone more than I should be.

So picking up like a book, like a actual like the physical copy of a book and trying to read that, that was kind of difficult for me. I don't know why, but just picking up a little copy was difficult for me. It's a muscle you hadn't been working on. Exactly. So what I had to do was get these books on my iPad.

Huh. So I really, like that's really the main way that I read. I got the meditations book, I got the physical copy of that one because you said that you recommend getting the physical copy and just to be able to break it down and how you like. But for me, I read on my iPad, and it's easy for me to track it,

I can highlight certain parts that I like, come back to it. And I don't know, it's almost like it's more comfortable for my eyes. I can't really explain it, but it's almost like it's more comfortable for my eyes to like read the message that way. Like my eyes are kind of already used to looking at an electronic device anyway. And I was,

Well, look, I think the other part of it is just like, we live in a culture that rewards, like think about it, it's like, people were reading blogs, and then they were like, that's too much writing, and they invented Twitter, and Twitter is like so short, right? And then people used to like watching television shows,

and then they were like, but what if the television show was only one minute long, and that's what TikTok is? You know, so it's like, everything's getting shorter and shorter and shorter, which is creating shorter attention spans, but like even though you and I do radically different things, right? Like you play a sport where very big people

are trying to hurt you, and I write books. At the core of it, what both our professions require is intense periods of concentration. Like for you, it's concentration on the field, but also when the offense takes the field, and sorry, and then when you're sitting on the sideline, right, you're having to watch as the, you're having to rest and recover, but also think and plan and process, and then take feedback from the coach and so on and so forth. And I think like the more you're able to concentrate and not Jones for your phone or get distracted

or watch what's happening on the screen or space out, the better you're going to be. And so really cultivating that ability to concentrate is so important. Have you read a Count Newport's book Deep Work? I haven't got a chance to read it. I need to write that down. I'm always looking for book recommendations. I'll give you a couple more. So I'd read Count Newport's stuff.

Deep Work, I also had them on the podcast a couple of times. So it's worth listening to. But then I was also thinking about you for sports books. There's a book called The Way of Baseball that I really like. If you like Chopin, Carrie Water, I think you'd like this book about sort of like a Zen approach to baseball. Okay. And then, and then have you read education of a coach about Bill Bella check? No, I've heard I've read that one either. So, see I'm it. Okay, so, so one of the great

biographers and journalists of all time, like, he's this guy named David Halberstrand. Like, do you know in the Vietnam War, there's the famous photo of the monk lighting himself on fire. Yeah, I've seen that. So he was there when that happened. Like, he was one of the great reporters during Vietnam,

but then late in his career, or later in his career, he wrote two books about Michael Jordan, and then he wrote one book about Bill Bellochek. And this is like, I think it stops like maybe in like 2005 or 2006, so it stops after three Super Bulls. So it's incredible, like how much Bill Bellochek has continued to dominate, but like it's one of the great the great sports books of all time, and I think you would really like it. I don't know about you, but I'm always in fact you waited, I've always getting inside on the mental,

like some of the great athletes or thinkers or inventors. I always like to see how they think and kind of, just get it inside. I mean, these guys are some of the smartest minds I've ever lived. So just able to, like, that's why the meditations but really resonate with me. Just be able to see how Marcus really is

was able to think at the time and you see how things that were going on back then still go on today. I just have like an effectuation with that because it is crazy to me because you might feel like, in the moment, oh, this is horrible, I'm the only one that's to go through this. And then you look, and it's like 2000 years ago, people are going through the same issues.

Got a quick message from one of our sponsors here, and then we'll get right back to the show, stay tuned. Totally. And you know what, I find it, I think you may have already experienced it, but you'll definitely see more of it as you go through your career. You know, maybe you'll spend some time with the owner or some tech company will bring you in because they're big fans or you end up, you'll meet someone who's in the special forces, you'll meet someone who's in the MBA.

You meet people who are like elite at whatever it is that they do. And what I've found is they're all really, really similar. It doesn't matter if they're throwing a ball, shooting a ball, kicking a ball, shooting a gun, or trading options or futures on the stock market, like the people who are world class at their thing are all operating on a similar wavelength and a similar approach. And I think that's why markets are really as a philosopher is so much more interesting than like Aristotle or something.

Aristotle is a great thinker and there's good stuff in there, but you're not really getting the sense that like this guy was a doer who was like operating at a high level and I think when I read about Mark's release, I'm like, oh yeah, this guy was like, he was doing a really hard job really well, just like you are or just like Bill Bellachek is and you don't have to like the person or even like the job that they did to be like, oh man, I could learn something from this,

Navy SEAL sniper because they have to concentrate and focus and train and learn just like I do. Yeah, and I think you see like what a lot of this called on-call great people. They don't only talk about the physical traits, so to say, you learn a lot about the mental traits. And I think that, I mean, it's not, well, not to say it's not hard,

but you can pretty much, if you wanted to, get your physical body to like where you wanted to be. But a lot of it, as we depend on that mental state, that's what you see like the Colby Michael Jordan comparison, you see a lot of similarities with how they approach things mentally, the Bill Belichex and Xsaevens. A lot of it of it's the mental part of it. So a lot to be learned from the mental part of these great minds.

Well, it's also, we talked about sort of what this success looked like, right? So I remember when I had Manu Genobli on the podcast and I've gotten to know him a bit. What's always sort of blown my mind about him is like, so you read about a Michael Jordan or a Kobe Bryant or a Nick Saban or you read about, I don't know, Napoleon or like somebody who's like the best, most driven, dominant person in their field, and you're sort of like, man, like it's probably not fun to be them.

Like, does it suck to be that person? You never get to have fun, you're consumed, all you think about is winning, there's no room for other stuff. You can kind of, when you read enough of those books, you get this sense that maybe that's what it takes. There's actually another good book you might like by Trevor Moad called It Takes What It Takes. I read that one. I read that one. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he's Russell Wilson's.

Yeah. And that's what attracted me to it. And I can Russell Wilson. I'm like, okay, let me get let me get inside of how this got Russell Wilson's thinking. But, but you know, you get this sense that like it might it might take like being a dysfunctional, unhappy person to be great, you know. And what I loved about Manu and he sort of, and maybe this isn't totally true, but it's kind of what I make up in my mind is the inspiration he serves for me is like, here's a guy who has four championships, but it seems like a well-adjusted, you know, like balanced person who was very, who was both very driven, but it didn't like corrupt or

break him. And that's like for me, when I think about success, like if you told me, okay, Ryan, you could sell five times as many books and have five times the influence, but you would have to, it would, I'm flashing forward to the future, you're divorced and you don't see your kids that much. Or like you have those things, but like you drink a lot, or you know, you suck to be around, I don't think I would take that trade. So like to me, when I think about what I want my success to look like and where I look for models is like, people who are really great at what they do, but then also seem to be, you know, like good humans. Yeah, and that's the biggest thing. Like, I was saying, I mean, you want to be remembered as being a good human. I mean, you could be the best

athlete, the best, whatever it is that whatever your thing is that you do. But I mean, at the end of the day, if people say bad things about you as the way you treated them, I don't think that's a trade-off that I would want honestly for myself. So I always try to find that balance. I think I read a quote, this might have been the daily stoic.

It might have even been, I wonder YouTube YouTube videos, when Anne Frank had said, nobody ever became poor by giving. Yes, that's the one that really stuck out to me. That, I mean, because it just, I don't know, it's for me. It just connected to me deeper because that is almost the truth,

because by giving out, I mean, you're gaining something by that, whether it might not be a financial gain, but you are gaining something from that internally. I could very least. Yeah, I was reading, it's funny to hear that you loved, or very sweet to hear how much you loved the players tribune in college, because I read your article about your mom, and when I was reading that, I was thinking,

like, that's almost more an impressive accomplishment than a super bull, like, to have someone write that letter about you, right, is like the sign of, like, I imagine when your mom had a kid, like, dreaming that her son would someday write that letter about her to her, she would be like, I did a good job, right? Like that would have been success to her. Do you know what I mean? I do right on that.

And in a way, that's a much harder achievement. Like there's been a lot of great people, wealthy people, successful people, dominant athletes, whatever it is, who have not managed to achieve what your mom achieved with you. Do you know what I mean? Because reality is you have to have an enormous impact on someone's life to the point where they feel compelled enough to write a heartfelt letter. To like regardless of like if it's your mother,

it was your football coach, if it's your boss, if it's your friend, like they have to have an enormous impact on a life to where you feel compelled to like, I want to pour out my heart to you and write a heartfelt letter telling you exactly how I feel about you, even if you can't read it or not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, and how many of those people who have, you know, hoisted the Lombardi trophy or whatever, actually their kids would have written the exact opposite letter about them.

Do you know what I mean? Like their kids are in therapy right now because they weren't around because they were, you know, focused on this that or the other. No, that's a great point. That's actually a great point. Did I send you the Chris Bosch book that I worked on, Letters Two Young Athlete? Yeah, I have, I'm looking at it right now and it's on my desk. I've won for chapter and reason. I mean, I was kind of fit as we were working on it. I was, because you and I had connected then I was kind of thinking about you as I was working on it, I was, because you and I had connected that I was kind of thinking about you as I was working on it. What would you say to this person who's in a different sport, but like, and, because

I've got to imagine that's something I was going to ask you, what is it like to be a first-round draft pick? I've got to imagine it is both incredibly exciting and rewarding and then terrifying and incredibly stressful. No, definitely. I think with the good also comes a bad. Obviously, you reached almost like, you say the pinnacle of your sport being the dream,

being a first round pick. You see your dreams come to life, whether or not he is. After that day, after you get drafted, now in this time, you can contribute to help turning a franchise around, especially when you're drafted. The higher you're drafted, I think the more pressure you have to do that.

So it's something that, I don't think you realize the magnitude of that at the time But that's when you get you get to find out really really quickly and something that you have to be able to embrace because it is a lot of pressure Because when you get in there you have expectations I mean there you have compete are always in a compare you to guys that were drafted in that same slot Guys is team team have drafted in previous years, guys that you may be coming in through. Is there so many comparisons and there's so many expectations? So you have to be able to embrace that.

And at the same time, you can't let it overwhelm you. When it must be frustrating because you have your own expectations and when you are meeting them or aren't meeting them, that's like both stressful, rewarding, and it's hard enough to just like, here's what I'm trying to do, am I playing as well as I could play. That's one level, but then it's not like you asked for any of these expectations,

and I've got to imagine a good percentage of the time to people who are criticizing or sort of, you know, playing this standard of that. It's not your coach or your agent or something. It's like some, some blogger has no idea what the hell they're talking about to begin with. They've never, not only have they never played football, they're not even that knowledgeable about the game. Yeah, I think at this point, you know, it's a lot of things, whatever can generate the clicks at this point.

Really? But the reality is, I think that what people don't really understand about like athletes, writers, whatever people that put their work out there to be criticized is that the expectations that I have for myself are probably higher than the expectations you have for me. You know, I don't, I don't think anyone, I don't think you ever put out a book

and I hope this is a subpar book. I'm putting this out here and I'm hoping that it's a subpar book. Like you're putting it out there, like I hope this is a great piece of work that people can gain knowledge from, that can impact lives. That's the expectation I would assume.

So when people are criticizing, you're already, your expectation was already high enough. So it's like it's almost like they're reminding you of something that you already knew. Yes, when I talked at Alabama, we talked about this idea of like the inner

scorecard versus the outer scorecard. Like, what are you measuring yourself on? Is it, is it like what the stat sheet says? Is it the score? Is it what the critics are saying? Because they could be, you know, celebrating you and actually you could be not even close to fulfilling your potential, or conversely they could be savaging you and it's like not your fall or you're actually making the most of a situation that's a lot more complex than they understand. So what Sabin ended up pointing out in an article after he was talking about how like, sometimes like Alabama will be up by a bunch of points and he'll be like scowling on the sideline

and people are like, he's miserable, he's never happy. And he's like, no, I just know we could be doing better. And so I'm focusing on that. And then conversely, when they win, he's not like over the moon, he's just like, sorry, when they lose, actually what I heard is that he's better to be around when they lose than when they win. Because when they win, and maybe Maya was like this too,

when they win, he's like, here's all the things we could have done better. When he lose, he's like, it was my fault, not the players fault, here's what I could have done better. So like, I think, yeah, people on the outside don't really understand that one, you don't care what they think, two, they don't know what they're talking about.

And three, there's, there's, they're already focusing on all the things that actually matter and trying to get better because that's what drives someone to be great at what they do. Yeah, it was actually interesting. So in high school, I was on a pretty average team. We would go to the playoffs, you probably last the first two rounds,

the first probably was the second round. So I really never was accustomed to like being at a school that was just used to winning. So when I went to a high state, it completely blew my mind because at a house state, not only is it an expectation to win, it's to win by a certain amount of points. I never like, it took me a while to understand it. We played a team, maybe ranked number 25 in the country, won by two touchdowns. And all the stuff coming out was like negative.

What's going on with Ohio State? They don't look as good as they used to look. So it's like, they want every game to be a 30 point blowout. So it's like your ex the expectations are just through the roof. And like I said, something you just have to embrace. I mean, it's not for like the faint of heart. So coming off your rookie season, which was probably more exciting and amazing

than you could have expected and then also disappointing and frustrating in ways that you couldn't have anticipated. How do you go into this new season? Like, I read that you sort of feel like you've got a new perspective on the game and what you're trying to do. What, walk me through what that means. I think this off season, just putting in a lot of work on the mental aspect of it.

I mean, like I said, I've done less physical work and so I've seen physical gains, which is great and all, but I think the thing about the professional level is physically everyone's probably like the, it's not that big of a gap physically because with a combine and the way they do things, they pretty much like kind of kick out the guys who aren't athletic pretty much. If you're running a 4-7, you're probably not going to get drafted, which is unfortunate

because there are some pretty nice players who are having a 4-7. So athletically, they pretty much compress it to the most athletic guys in the whole world. So it's really all about the mental part of it. So just like, no one who you are as a person, you know, being able to, like I said, adapt on, adapt to whatever situations may come. And for, so for me, just getting into the whole stoic philosophy, reading, learning about some of these guys, just when I went back out there for OTAs, everything that's felt so much more calm.

Like it wasn't like a big craze, and that may come with the experience. I know my rookie year, one of our coaches told me, every experience is a benefit, whether it's a good or bad experience, it's something they could take from it. So experience in NFL is a great thing to have.

So, I think that having the experience, having the mental, just do putting in the mental work. I think obviously learning the philosophy is obviously you have to sit here and read and learn all these new things, which has been fun for me. But I just been able to see my mental, you know, kind of strengthened so much over the course of the last nine months.

And I'm excited honestly for what's to come. I love that your coach said that because that was something Robert Greene who is my mentor, it is my mentor, but certainly was when I was coming up, he said, you know, it's all material. And I was like, what does that mean? It's just like, you can use all of it, right? It doesn't matter what. He's like, that's the great part about being a writer, is that everything that happens, you can use in material like directly or indirectly. It's all shaping your worldview. And yeah, everything that happens in the game is teaching you something,

even the injuries are teaching you something, right? Like, oh, don't you got to be careful about this. You know, you got to be worried about that. You know, you, you, here's, here's how to take better care of yourself. That's such, that's such great advice to get early on. And, and when they talk about veterans, like the main thing that separates a veteran from a rookie or an inexperienced person is, you know, just the hours that they've spent doing the thing. No, exactly. Just watch because it's, I'm going to be my rookie year. Do this one. I just watch and film. I'm looking at these veterans and it's like, it seems almost like they're just relaxing on the field.

Yeah. And I'm over here running around, like a chicken with my head cut off, just running around. And then you tend to learn, okay, the reason why he's relaxing is because he knows that with this formation and the way the receivers lined up, well, he's not expecting this to happen or this to happen. He knows that this is gonna happen. So he doesn't have to be running around like a chicken

with his head got off, he can't play way more calm. And like, so that comes with experience. Yeah, I don't want to get you in trouble. So you don't have to comment on it with your new quarterback. But when I watch that Rams, New England Super Bowl, that's what I noticed is that Tom Brady was felt like he deserved to be there. And it was just another game to him. And Jared Gough was probably thinking, holy shit, I'm in the Super Bowl. I don't want to lose to Tom Brady in the Super Bowl. And yeah, like the idea of chopwood carry waters getting to a place, I think, where you are able to calm down

just a little bit, just enough that you're training and you're talent and your body can do what it's great at doing. No, I think you hit that right on the head. And another thing, when I was watching, I think in December, I want to abinge on December 100 YouTube channel. I was just watching all these videos because, oh, no, I mean, you obviously I had surgery probably first week at December. So I just had a bunch of free time on my hand. So I'm watching all YouTube videos and the one I went, I came across one, a more a 14. Just loving

your fate. And I that just, I don't know, something, it just clicks something inside of me like, instead of like looking at this like a negative thing, like embrace it, I love it. I love that I got surgery, because now that it gives me a chance to improve things that I never, probably wouldn't have improved if I didn't have to get surgery.

Or I love that somebody's place happened because now I'm learning from these plays and there's a less probability that they'll happen again. So I was able to kind of see it from that perspective. It kind of like what's the perspective change for me. Well, it feels passive, right? To be like, I'm glad I'm getting surgery or I'm glad, you know, like, yeah, I guess it's good that I got,

you know, I blew the coverage here and blah, blah, blah, or you know, that they rolled me over. It's actually not passive though, because it's active, because you're having to choose to learn from it, right? It could happen and it not make you better, right? It could just have happened and just suck. It could just happen and have lead to, you know,

points being scored. It could just happen and have lead to, you know, points being scored. It could just happen and now you're, you know, in the hospital getting surgery and blah, blah, blah, blah. You have to choose to respond to it and to integrate it and to grow from it and be improved by it. That's the active part is that like, like, you, we all make mistakes, right? Failure is only educational if you choose

to acknowledge or learn the lesson. A lot of people make mistakes all the time. And then what do they do? They make the same mistake again, right? So it's not the failure so much that's meaningful, but how you choose to use it. And for me, it just kind of keeps that fire burning. You know, instead of getting down to yourself,

when you love it, like, when you just kind of have that mindset of loving what's happening, it's like, well, I wish that would happen again, because now I would chance to respond to it in a different way. As opposed to saying, oh, well, I hope that doesn't happen again, because I don't want to be embarrassed.

Well, now it's like, I embrace that, like let it happen again. Like that's just an opportunity for me to show my growth. Right, right. Have you read mastery by Robert Green? I think you would like it. Did we talk about this from already? I don't think we did.

You might need to send me just a list of books to just read. I will send you a list, but I think you'd like mastery too. I love that you're watching the YouTube channel. Like the reason I do them is that I understand, like me, like if I want to you a list, but I think you'd like mastery too. I love that you're watching the YouTube channel. The reason I do them is that I understand, like me, like if I want to learn about something, I don't really watch YouTube videos. Like I read books about it. That's how I learn.

But I totally understand that different people are in different places, that different things going on. And so I'm always thinking about what's the most, what is another medium that I can bring the ideas to people and we've been doing TikToks and stuff too, it's been going great. I don't even have TikTok, I don't even know how it works.

I heard like, I'm such an old man, I'm like aren't the Chinese gonna be tracking me? I'm like, I don't even have it, but I like that it's reaching people, so I'm always thinking about like how, how to do. Now honestly, I thought TikTok was just like a platform people would just make dances. I didn't even know that it was some resource for information on there. I thought that you just record skits and whatnot on there, but apparently you

can get on there and learn something if you're algorithmic setup properly. Yeah, no, and that is the other thing we were talking about why we have such short attention spans. It's like, if you do one thing on the internet, the internet's like, oh, I'm just going to give him a million more examples of this. So you don't like, like, remember, you were talking about going to a library. It's like, you go to the library as a kid, you're just like bumping into all this random stuff and it's all totally unrelated.

Like, you know, now it's like, you know, like you click one pair of shoes on the internet. Like, let me show you a million pictures of the exact kind. You know, like, it's like, oh, you're a sneaker head. If you're a billion pairs of sneakers, that's not like, oh, let me tell you about watches, right? It's like just the same thing over.

And I've noticed that because I've gone off of Instagram and on my Twitter, you should just down. I kinda got into YouTube a little bit. So when I watched like one YouTube video, I might watch like a Joe Rogan episode about whether it's like an interview like Jordan Peterson or something. Next thing I know my whole YouTube is flooded

with Jordan Peterson's content. Like, all I see is Jordan Peterson content. And then I might watch a video about something else. And now my YouTube is flooded with all this now. And I think that's how these people get like radical. No, for sure. They click this one thing and then all of a sudden they're like, masks don't work and the vaccines are fit, you know, the vaccine will make you magnetized. And also like JFK is still alive, you know, like all of a sudden you like,

you just get like sucked into this wrap. Yeah, well, it's like, it's like, if you come on YouTube with the belief of, let's say, everyone should be vaccinated, then that's all they're gonna, like, it's gonna just, you're gonna see videos that support that claim and you become on the YouTube with the belief that nobody should be vaccinated,

that you're gonna just get videos that support that claim and you become on YouTube with a belief that nobody should be vaccinated, that you're going to just get videos that support, that claim as well. Yeah, there's actually a great book you probably don't need to read it, the concept is good, but it's called The Filter Bubble. And basically what happens is the algorithms or the filter, like the filter that's deciding what to show you, it creates a bubble around you. And the worst part about it is you don't even know you're in the bubble. You're just like, you just think that everyone else in the same bubble is in there. But they're not, they're in their own bubble.

Exactly, exactly. And I all know where I read this, but it was just, I just knew that it was true. Like pretty much you can go on the internet and find something that backs up any claim that you may have. Like if your claim is that, let's say for instance, the earth is flat.

You can go on the internet and type in the earth is flat, it would probably find a couple of articles that say the earth is flat and like have information by this guy that's this reason why the earth is flat. And on the other hand, you can find information that proves the otherwise. So whatever you believe to be true, it's ways to prove that in your in your head to give you a illusion that that is true. Like when people believe that that is true as well. Well, funny enough, we did a TikTok video about this, but there's a great quote from Zeno

founder of Stoicism. He says, you know, conceit is the enemy of knowledge. Because what happens is like it's actually not stupid people that fall for this stuff on the internet. It's moderately intelligent people who think they're very smart, right? So like Kyrie Irving, where does he, you know, come off thinking that the world is flat? It's because he's overestimated his mental ability. So he's not coming to stuff from a place of

humility. He's coming at it from a place of like, probably like, I'm great at this. Obviously, I'm brilliant too. And so you can end up getting sucked into things that, when you look at most of these conspiracy theories, on the one hand they're preposterous, but also they put the person who's believing them in the position of feeling like they're smarter than every other person. It's like, oh, you're all idiots, I figured this out.

Like they know most people don't agree with them. That's what, oh, you're all idiots. I figured this out, right? Like they know most people don't agree with them. That's what's attractive to the idea of the earth being flat is it's like, oh, I discovered this and I'm smarter than everyone by understanding it. And so really, like when we talk about ego being the enemy, it, ego is the enemy because it makes you fall for things because it's actually using your ego against you. That's true. That's true. Like you say, and that's kind of who they're praying on.

That's who they're praying on. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. It's another great expression. No, but going back to December, when I was on a YouTube channel, I think just, I saw another video, which really propelled my off season, kicked me off the right way because, you know,

and the hepatitis quo when he was saying, you must undergo hard winter training and not rush the things in which we have not prepared. Just reading that quote, and it coincidentally, it being December in Detroit. So it was really a winter, I didn't get a Miami winter, I got a Detroit winter. Or it was cold, so it was like,

I was able to kind of get the whole imagery, and then also have to kind of live the reality of that too. And just having that quote, I mean, I was rehabbing in Detroit, so I was in Detroit from, do my rehab from December all the way up until April. And that quote kind of just always stuck on my mind, you know, because obviously some days

are gonna be better than other days. But I always came back to that quote, which is that, you have to undergo the hard winter training, and not rushing to things like enjoy the process of that, because that process is going to get you ready for the season or whatever your thing might be. And I could send that quote to our Howl it stays strength coach. He loved it. He showed it to the whole football team. Oh, amazing.

He loved that quote. I mean, he put it on the board. I mean, because it just, I don't know. It just saw applicable for the athlete and the winter, because I mean, obviously, you don't want to do some of that stuff. It's tough. Winter is always tough in sports.

That's when the workouts are the most extreme, because it's the furthest away from the season. So you get more of a physical load on the body. Right. So just having no, having that quote on hand, it's something that just helped me come to terms that I was going to be a tough winter. Get ready for it. But like also, like I said, embrace it. Well, I love, you know, some players obviously they think about like, what's the weather going to be for tomorrow's game? But like Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers, they never think about that because they know like they have played in the worst conditions that could possibly exist, right? Like, so when we talk about the obstacles the way or a more faulty, like when you have to play in the winter in Detroit, although you guys have a closed stadium, but like, you

know, if you're, if you're playing in, in, in Foxboro or, or Green Bay, like, you know, you could put up with anything. Like Tom Brady probably shows up in Tampa and he's like, dude, I don't care about any of this. Like, I played in Boston in the winter, right? So like, when you go through that hard winter training, when you get your ass kicked, when you have to recover from surgery,

like, you are, the one benefit is like, you know, you're tough, right? Because like, you got through it. No, exactly. And I think that that's kind of like, I think it's something that we, at Ohio State, something that we always refer to, is like, kind of putting those days in the bank. Yes. And then when it's time, like, say, like, you get, you get that five degree game, now it's

time to withdraw, it's time to withdraw it out of your, out of that bank. And you've already prepared for it. So it's not a shock to you because you already experienced it. Yes, yes, you paid your dues. I think about that too, again, to go back to Tom Brady. Like, how many super bulls is that dude lost, right? Like he now can go into anything and be like, I'm gonna be fine either way, so I can be present for this, you know.

I'm going to be fine either way so I can be present for this, you know. You, yeah, every experience you get is a deposit that you can make a withdrawal on later or borrow against, right, to further the metaphor. I love that. That's smart. Nah, yeah. And just on the third point, I'm definitely fanboying your YouTube channel right now. So shout out the daily, shout out the daily story. Please.

But that video, you control how you play, that's something that I was probably watching for every single OTA practice this year. Wow, okay. You know, just because, and then the day that's really the reality of the thing, you can't control anything else that happens that you can't control the weather,

you can't control the weather, you can't control weather, you get hurt, weather, the coverage gets busted, you just try how you play. That's the only thing you have control of. Same way they say, okay, you can't fix the whole, I'm gonna give the world peace. You can just find peace within yourself and hope that passes on to somebody else. It would have started with you.

You can show yourself first. It's funny, because I gave that talk when I spoke to the Browns, I think like two years ago. And so I went through it and this sounds like a name drop, but we didn't meet or anything, so I'm not like pretending that we're friends. But so obviously Baker may feel sitting there, and then there was a lot of expectations

about what the Browns would do that year. They did not end up doing well. And I remember at the end of the season, or at maybe as the beginning of this season, he was like someone's like, what are you gonna do differently this year? What did you learn? He was like, last year, I just spent way too much time focused on things that I don't control. You know, I spent too much

time on social media, you know, I was pho and I was like, come on, man, like we talked about that the beginning of last season. But I think, you know, that's another thing is like, there's this great expression, you know, when the when the student is ready to teach her appears, oftentimes we have the information. That's not the problem. It said it just doesn't hit us emotionally until we're out of place where we can actually use it. And there's so much advice I've gotten in my life

that I was like, oh, yeah, I totally get it. I already knew that. And then like five years later, I'm like, why did I not listen to that for the last five years? No, I was actually, I was talking to my cousin another day. He's an eighth grade and he was just talking about, you know, man, like my dad wakes me up. He's a boxer. My dad wakes me up.

Yeah. We run all these miles. He gives me a certain amount of food to eat every day to make sure I stay on weight. Like it's miserable doing this. Like it's tough. And I was like, you're gonna appreciate that because that's what it takes to be successful. Like, that sacrifice and that grind.

But when I'm telling him, I'm looking at him in his eyes and I can tell that he wasn't really receiving the message. Like, like, like how I understood it at the time. And I just like, take a step back and we're okay. This kid is in eighth grade. He's probably not hearing what I'm saying right now. But four years, when four years passed, five years passed, he might look at that and be like,

okay, I understand what my cousin was talking about. So you do have to be ready to receive the message. You know, the message can be pure and why not it could be really beneficial. But if you're not ready to receive it, you probably want to apply it. Have you watched the Jocco willing good video? I haven't seen that. I've seen some Jocco videos.

I haven't seen that video in particular. That was one of the ones that inspired the, the, the you control how you play video, but you might like that one. He basically like, it's like, should he thing happen?

He's that good. Oh, no, I've seen that. I've seen that. I've seen that one. He has like the kind of the, the dark music in the background kind of know what? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's talking in like this boys. Yeah, I got. Yeah. I saw that one. I saw that one. He's amazing too. Well, so one other book recommendation. I'll put this on a list for you, but the inner game of tennis is actually, I think it's Tom Brady's favorite book, but it's an incredible book about the mental game of sports, mostly through tennis. But basically the premise is like, you can't hit and think at the same time. So how do you get to a place where the thinking is subconscious, right? So you basically, and you've probably heard this a million times, like, how do you get out of your own head?

It's a book just about that. It's a great book. I think you'd really like that. Have you read the book, um, a man searched for a meaning? Of course. That was a great one right there. I mean, I think I read that at the right time because here I was thinking like, okay, okay, am I in a shitty predicament right now? But then I read this book and I see, okay, this is a real shitty predicament.

This guy, Victor, is able to find happiness in little things, whether that's getting scrap of me, that's the highlight of his day, whether that's, okay, I was able to make one of these other camp prisoners smile, that's the highlight of his day. Like you see how the little lights, you could find joy in these unfortunate situations. And it just makes, like I said, things that you feel like our big problems just seem so minuscule or trivial in the grand scheme of things. No, man, that's totally right. And so he has another book that came out somewhat recently, he's long since deceased, but they sort of compiled some of his lectures. He has a book called Yes to Life, in the subtitle, I love it. It's In spite of everything.

So you'd like that one. But then there's another book actually by a woman who was also in Auschwitz, named Dr. Edith Eger, who wrote a book called The Choice. And it's a great book. And I actually had her on the podcast. She's 93 years old, she's still alive. So you might like that episode as well, but her book The Choice is also really good.

I agree. It's like, you want to study people who have been through stuff that makes what you've been through look like fairy tale, because it puts your problems in perspective. Well, yeah, it puts them in a great perspective. And so when those problems, like when they, I mean, because obviously, my life's not perfect. Probably is going to come up again. It just makes you like, okay, now and I see that I'm not the only ones gone through this. You have gone through worse.

So I just needed to buckle up and say the course. And I'll be just fine. No, totally, but I think buckle up is a great phrase too. I think about that too. When I think of Morafati, I think like buckle up. You'll get through this sound could be fun by the other side, something good will come out of it. No, I agree with that, man.

It's definitely a lot of, inside me, you don't even have to be a stoic, so to say, to just look at somebody's lessons and be able to learn from them. I think you just having the open mind is to try to receive that information. Man, I'm so glad we got connected. I'm glad you had Instagram long enough

to post that one photo. And then Adam left go from TNT. He sent it to me. And then I'm glad we connected. And now we'll have to stay in touch. And let's let's link up while we're both in Texas. No, no, no, that sounds like a plan to me, brother. Dude, I love it.

Thanks for rescheduling with me. And seriously, you got my number. You can call me anytime if you ever want to advice about anything or you want some book recommendations. I am at your disposal. Thank you. It's been honor, brother. Hey, it's Ryan.

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