The Daily Stoic - Rob Dyrdek, Rick Rubin, Alexander Ludwig, Whitney Cummings, Nate Boyer, And Arnold Schwarzenegger On the power of discipline And Dealing With Failure

Episode Date: December 30, 2023

Today’s episode features clips from some of the best interviews in 2023. Ryan talks to reality TV personality, and former professional skateboarder Rob Dyrdek, along with record executive and co-founder of Def Jam Records Rick Rubin about the value of experimenting with new methods and building a routine that fits you. Ryan also talks with Alexander Ludwig, and Whitney Cummings over trusting the process and continuing to be disciplined during the hard times. Lastly, he speaks with Nate Boyer and Arnold Schwarzenegger about creating the skill of powering through and knowing how to stop yourself from quitting. That having a clear vision of what you want is what should drive you to keep going. If you want to spend time with more dedicated Stoics, if you want to join a culture full of people rising together, we invite you to join the 2024 Daily Stoic New Year New You Challenge. We did the first New Year New You Challenge in 2018, and year after year, we’ve realized more and more that one of the core benefits of the challenge is the community dynamic. Change and improvement comes fastest through culture, results through accountability, and wisdom through exposure to new people and new ideas.If you’re ready to join our own version of the Scipionic Circle, if you want to surround yourself with like-minded individuals and people who will push you, sign up to join this year’s group of Stoics taking on the New Year New You Challenge!Participants will receive:✓ 21 Custom Challenges Delivered Daily (Over 30,000 words of all-new original content)✓ Three live Q&A sessions✓ Printable 21-Day Calendar With custom daily illustrations to track progress✓ Access to a Private Community PlatformThese aren’t pie-in-the-sky, theoretical discussions but clear, immediate exercises and methods you can begin right now to spark the reinvention you’ve been trying for. We’ll tell you what to do, how to do it, and why it works. And when adversity inevitably comes around, you’ll be ready.Rob Dyrdek - YoutubeRick Rubin - The Creative ACT: A Way of BeingAlexander Ludwig - InstagramWhitney Cummings - Instagram Nate Boyer - TwitterArnold Schwarzenegger - Be Useful: Seven Tools for Life✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic. Each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance and wisdom. And then here on the weekend we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview Stoic philosophers, we explore at length how these stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend when you have a little bit more space when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with

your journal, and most importantly to prepare for what the week ahead may bring. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. I guess here we are at the end of the year. I don't know where you are when you're listening to it. I honestly don't know where I am going to be While you're listening to it But I'm I'm at the office now just sort of taking care of end of your business stuff Tax stuff having to remind myself of

said because advice about paying the taxes of life gladly which I You know don't always love to do but trying to work on stuff I just got the manuscript back of the justice book. So I have to do the first past pages here to turn those back around before I think the sixth of January. So things are getting real. And yeah, it feels like the end of the years is kind of like wrap up here. And then actually, like I already have stuff do the first week of January, like I'm already in January in my mind in that sense.

It's not in the indefinite, non-existent future that, oh, that's a 2024 problem. I mean, it is, but it's also a problem for me right now. I've got to find it some time to sit alone with that and edit it and start making final changes. I can't procrastinate. Speaking of procrastination, last time I I'm probably gonna be telling you about this here on the podcast. Just a reminder, you still have a couple days

to sign up for the Daily Stoke, New Year, New Year Challenge. The idea is to help you come up with goals, build better habits, become more disciplined to do the things that drive you. It's 21 actionable challenges, one per day, all inspired by stoic philosophy. I'm doing the challenge. A bunch of my friends

are doing the challenge, and so many listeners are doing it. It's going to be awesome. We can do it together dailystoic.com slash challenge, or you can sign up for daily stoic life, you can get this challenge and all the challenges for free at dailystoiclife.com. Today's episode we're going to talk about failure, talking about resilience, talking about getting back on track, and I interviewed a bunch of awesome guest, Rob Deerdick, the professional skateboarder, the host of maybe the most popular show in the history of MTV. I talked to Rick Rubin, perhaps the greatest record producer of all time, was gonna have a different view on discipline.

And then he comes to it more from the view of Eastern philosophy, but his great book on creativity is just absolutely amazing and I highly recommend it. And then I talked with the actor, Alexander Ludwig, recent Austin transplant who did a great episode on the podcast this year. And then I also talked to Whitney Cummings, the comedian about trusting the process

and being disciplined in hard times. Congratulations to her, new parent. And then I talked to Nate Boyer, the Army Green Beret and professional football player, and then Arnold Schwarzenegger about powering through, knowing how to stop yourself from quitting. Anyways, all very interesting experts on discipline and I'm excited for this little compilation here at the end of the year. I hope you enjoy and thanks to all the guests

on the Daily Stoke Podcast this year. And of course, thanks to all of you. I told this story before, but the first Airbnb I stayed in was 15 years ago. I was looking for places to live when I wanted to be a writer and we stayed at this house, I think outside Phoenix. And then when I bought my first house here in Austin, I would rent it out when South by Southwest or F-1 or all these events. My wife and I bought my first house here in Austin, I would rent it out

when South by Southwest or F-1 or all these events. My wife and I would go out of town and we'd rent it and it helped pay for the mortgage and it supported me while I was a writer. You've probably had the same experience. You stayed in an Airbnb and thought, this is doable. Maybe I could rent my place on Airbnb and it's really that simple. You can start with a spare room or you can rent your whole place when you're away. You could be sitting on an Airbnb and not even know it. Maybe you set up a home office during the pandemic and now you don't need it because you're back at work. Maybe you're traveling to see friends and family for the holidays. While your way, your home could be an Airbnb. Whether you could

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Join over one million Canadians and sign up for your free trial now. Download the coho app today or visit www.coho.ca for more details. Like a life is made up of days, a day is made up of chunks. I think the morning being the most essential chunk of the day, like I feel like if you get the morning right, a pretty good day inevitably follows. What does morning look like for you? What's your morning routine?

My mornings are dependent on if I get up at 3.30 or I get up at 4.30. A lot of times, luckily for me, my wife started doing 5am calls for her business. She started wanting to go to bed earlier. I need about seven hours of sleep. If we get to bed at 8.30 or 9, I'm getting up at 3.30 or 4. And then I start my day by sending her an email of every single thing that I'm doing that day. And that's generated from my chief of's brew and when I get up, I take a eight-ounce shot of salt water and do five minutes of red light therapy

before I head downstairs and have my first cup of coffee before I center, then I center that email and then I go through all my time from the day before and fill out how my day looked go through all my time from the day before and fill out how my day looked to track all my time because I basically, I fill out all my time in the calendar that was blank and it all has tags that pump into a dashboard that shows me where I use all my time. Then I go back to my daily data where every day I track, did I brain-trained, did I meditate, did I get up before five, did I get in the gym, did I eat clean, meaning I had no sugar, no carbs, no nothing but lean

meat and vegetables and did I not drink and did I take my supplements. Those are what I track each day and then I go through and fill out all of that then I fill out how do I feel zero to 10 about my life work and health That basically make up the data set that I have for years right of years of collecting this data So I could show you now and I sent it to you Yeah, you sent me your discipline spreadsheet. It was amazing What what that all that stuff pulls out of my calendar into these dashboards. So I've gamified my discipline.

I know that last month, I did all of that 100%. You know what I mean? I know that there's not every day off for me as to me every day is amazing in that process as part of that, that sort of day. But then I brain train, and then I qualitatively rate the brain training to see how my mind feels each day.

Then I meditate on a manifestation meditation. And then I wake my kids up, take my kids to school, and then meet the trainer at the house at 7.45. That's how basically every day for me starts. Wow. Do you, I guess all that data and all that writing is kind of a form of journaling. You're creating messages to yourself based on what you did. But do you have a journaling practice

also or is this mostly what you just sort of do in your head? Yeah, you look, my journaling practice is through the lens of milestones, right? Like I'm in this sort of rapid state of evolution and in this continual sort of place of learning and growing and shifting. So I do my five and 10 year, or a five and 15 year planning every quarter.

And then I update those documents on an ongoing basis. And then I collect milestones of major thoughts and major things that are going on that are connected to it because the beauty of it when you look at it all. When you lay it over top, you see how like happier I am, how much more wealthier I am, you see how much more disciplined I am, you just see how, when you layer the blood work on top of that, when you look at all the sets of data that I could lay over top of that sort of core growth of evolution and discipline. When you see it all together, the most profound aspect of it is that when I started doing qualitative data,

asking myself about my life, how I felt zero to 10 about my life, health and work, the numbers were in 12s and 13s where today they're at 23s. And it's like you really can see in all of these numbers how much truly happier you are. I can show you in the numbers that I went from working 36% of my time down to 26% of my time. And as you time, you time slows down. And then you understand the value of time so deeply that you're so precious with it. And then here's one of the greatest assets of mastering time. There is no point in my life that I look at my kids and wonder

where the time went. There is no point in my life where I ever contemplate the idea of where did the time go? Because I know exactly where all of it has gone and I have created, designed and optimized it with the intent to enjoy it and experiencing it. And so I feel each and every year of my life as what another extraordinary year in the human experience. And I can't wait to continue to see what the future holds because as tight as I plan it, I continue to evolve and change on such a level and the universe continues to conspire to bring more opportunities and more interesting things that fit inside the parameter of my willingness to dedicate the time to these things that allow me to continually

live this very exciting, rewarding, fulfilling life. And what do I want to do? I want to live one million hours. That's 114 years and 54 days, you know what I mean? And so I know that I got 8,760 a year and that if I do something for one hour a day, that it's 4% of my life. So watching TV for one hour a day with my wife,

I know, boy, that's a, I watch two hours of TV, that's 8% of my life. It's so much more significant when you think about shooting 336 episodes of television that's only 4% of your life and really the value of your time when you understand it more intuitively, you just use it in a much different way. I started as a research assistant, so I learned like somebody else's methodology of writing, I learned Roberts, and so I do all my research on on no cards, like these are my no cards, so I do them all by hand, and it is so inefficient and so painstaking. And my hand writing gets worse every year

because this is basically the only place that I write things by hand other than our interview notes. But there's definitely tools that would be better than the way that I do it. But there's something special and sacred to me about the way that I do it. And I loved that story. It's great.

And I would say the book would recommend that you try one of the new methods as well. Yes. Just because yes, but anytime you get attached to a method for a romantic reason, you know it works. Yes. And I'm not suggesting using another method because it's easier or saves you time, but maybe by experimenting with the other method, you learn something new about your process that you didn't know. And that's always good.

It's great to refresh yourself all the time. It happens anyway. I mean, we're not, you're not the same person who wrote your first book. Sure. So if you're using exactly the same methods that that guy was using might not be optimal. No, it's changed a ton, but I would clarify, your book is full of paradoxes.

I think much more eastern than western, your book sort of embrace of paradox instead of sort of singular permanent truth. Because then you tell the story from about the man in Calcutta and then you have this wonderful little poem on page 104 and you say beware of the assumption that the way you work is the best way simply because it's the way you've done it before. And both of those are true. Yes, that's negative capability. Keith said the mark of genius was the ability to have two contradictory thoughts in your head at the same time.

Beautiful. And I feel like there is something inherently paradoxical about art, which is like sometimes you do it this way, sometimes you need to do it this way. Sometimes it's all about deliberate practice and putting your ass in the seat and doing it, and then other times the idea comes to you in the shower. Yes, and I think you can extend that beyond creativity to everything in life. I don't know that there's a right way to do anything.

I think there's the way we know and there's maybe a better way and maybe we'll find out someday. Do you feel like your methodology or how you think about time in the studio has changed? I mean, you've been doing it 40 years, 50 years? How long? It's something like 40 years. 40 years, 50 years? How long? It's something like 40 years. How much has your methodology changed? I don't think it changed so much. The main difference is, in the early days,

I didn't understand as well what was and wasn't important. So I probably put more effort into things that meant less in the early days. I spent a lot of time in the recording studio over the course of my life for the first 20 years. I was in studio for, you know, 12 hours a day, at least six, if not seven days a week. And in those days, usually in New York, in rooms with no windows and just like no life. Yeah.

And now I aim to spend like from maybe five hours is about the amount of time that I can really focus with all of my attention, whereas before, because we were in the studio, we felt like we were working, even when we weren't working. So it's like, you get to the studio and you order lunch. And you, you know, it's like, you're, it was more like clocking in time. Yeah. And now I don't clock in time. And we make it a point we eat before we get there. We, we work like, like it's a military operation and we get out as soon as we can.

Not because we don't love it, but because there's life, there is life beyond. And if we get on a roll and something starts going good, we could work all night. If that's what it takes, but it's not the standard. The standard is we come in, we know what we're doing, we get it done. What a life these celebrities lead. Imagine walking the red carpet, the cameras in your face, the designer clothes, the worst dress list, big house.

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To find something, you won't forget. Going back to the picking the person you look to. So if you pick the person that was the flash in the pan of femoral, I want to be like, I don't know, is Neil Strauss a good example? He like, well, didn't he have the book about naggy I follow him on Instagram. Oh, oh, yeah, he was doing better now, right? Yeah, he wrote the biggest book ever the pickup art. The game blue, but he's also like the biggest ghostwriter that spooky. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm trying to think of someone that was James Frey, a million little

pieces. I mean, he ended up being a charlatan. I'm just trying to think of an author. What? I see the book behind you. Oh, really? And it was all a shit. What if it's, I guess he said it was not a biography, but it was really fiction. Who cares?

I'm just trying to think of someone that. Actually, very nice guy. I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm just trying. This is a goal. I'm horrible at this. I'm trying to think of where you got the idea that you would go away.

You think about the one-hit wonders and you go, I don't want to be that person. You don't want to be that. So for me, I was like Rodney Dangerfield, made it at 60. Like pick the person, like pick the people you look up to and the trajectories you want to emulate and don't even think about those other ones. I can't even think about a flash in the pan. I'm only thinking of success stories. Like I can't even, like I don't even allow that in my brain.

And so for me, I kind of get to go like, oh, I'm, you know, because working as an actress or working on camera, I go, he's told, like, you got to like 30. Yeah, that's sort of idea. You start getting off. He's like, stop shivering in some way. But like as comedians, you just get smarter,

you get more interesting, you get more worldly, like the best is is yet to come. This is just the beginning. It took me a while to really get in that space. What does a 25-year-old have to say? What I have to say, if I'm successful now, imagine how good I'm going to be 30 years when I have a kid and have actually lived some life. And the audience has grown with you and you've just been doing your part?

And I'm a dork. Literally in my office, I have pictures of, you know, like Rodney Dangerfield and Joan Rivers and not like, remind yourself, make sure you're giving yourself a lot of data and proof that all that's possible. I wanted to ask you about that because I think you had this joke once I heard you say, where you were like, I don't want my phone to get hacked. Not because the pictures that are on it, because of all the inspirational quotes.

The implication being that there's something kind of lame. Not because of my noons, because I have a folder full of screen grabs of inspirational quotes. It's brutal. But there is this sense that I think with some people that there's like something wrong with that, or that something like a vision board is lame, or knowing what you want and trying, like, there's kind of like cynicism is cool and earnestness is lame or knowing what you want and trying. Like there's kind of like cynicism is cool and earnestness is lame. I feel like, you know, yes, I think as you get,

I agree on some level, but I committed to not being cool a really long time ago. And, you know, for me, I think I just surrender to the fact that really busy brains do well with very clean aphorism, even if it's a platitude, you know, a very simple one, not my circus, not my monkeys. It's like, that will go out the window for me when I'm going to a chaotic situation and things are crazy. And then I'm trying to micromanage people, mother, my, my, my micromanage, those are some things you get when you grow up and now call a comb, you're trying to fix people,

I'm trying to mentor people. And I'm like, none of this is my business or my problem. Not my circus, not my monkeys. Oh, right. You know what I mean? Sometimes you just need that little rubber band snap of a thing. There was one recently that I screen grabbed

that intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people aren't offended. You know, like sometimes I just like have to like write it on a poster note and put it right there when I'm kind of like, ooh, is this gonna get me in trouble? And I'm like, oh yeah, like I kind of need those guardrails. It is interesting, like first up,

there's this debate amongst the Stoics, whether these sort of aphorisms or epocrans or maxims as they call them were necessary. Like they were like, the wise person should just know. Like you learn it, you just know. And, and, uh, Santa, one of the other jokes is like, no, actually you need these like little reminders. And so that's what he was trying to do.

He had this exchange with this friend Lucilius. They would write each other letters. And he says, the whole point of this is he's like, we should each get like one thing a day from each other. Like, I'll write you a thing, you write me a thing. And then if there's just one thing that makes you a little bit better, that makes you wiser, smarter, fortifies you against adversity,

that's what philosophy is. Yeah. And the funny thing is when you look at like high performers, that's actually what, like if you go to the locker room of the New England Patriots, there'd be like little things all over. And just make champions. Yes, that you'd go, you're getting paid tens of millions of dollars a year. You're incredibly ambitious and driven.

You've trained harder, had more expert coaching than anyone. You should know all this. And Bill Belichek is just giving you motivational quotes at the team meeting, but that's actually what it is at that level, right? Like, and people are like, I've been amazed with Daily Stoke, like just the people who just follow this Instagram account and like the, like the comedians. I had Chris to stuff in on my podcast, we were talking about all of my friends in our comics are so obsessed with it.

And it's obviously genius, but it's the simplicity of it and the surgical, like there's no fat, the economical nature of like the silver bullet of like, that's what that's it. I can't make this quote better. My ego can't get around it.

I can't be like, it's not like it's just true and clean and smart. And I can repeat it to someone else. Yeah. Like, that's the best version of what like religion does. You know what I mean? It just like, there's something so soothing about knowing that it's true. And it's a saint. And I can repeat it to something out in my brain can't over complicate it. I have to surrender to it. These ideas, they've been distilled to their essence. I really smart people thousands of years ago, and then the ones that didn't,

it's like a comedian, the bad jokes get killed, the ones that aren't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then all the fat, each time you do it, it's getting cut out a little bit more, it's being rendered down, rendered down until all that's left is like the essence of it. And that's the hack of Daily Stoke

is that it's posting these things that people have been working on for 2000 years. And it's been hack of Daily Stoke is that it's posting these things that people have been working on for 2000 years. And it's been true for that long. Yes. And I think comedians probably also just like a very well-written line. There's an appreciation, but I think writers too.

But we always want to go, like, we'll make fun of it, we'll judge it, we'll be like, oh, we'll back then, they didn't have social media. So it's like, you can't make fun of it, you kind of just get to surrender to it. And there's something really soothing about that for overthinky-thinky-complicated brains. I remember I talked at the University of Alabama to the football team, maybe six or seven, eight years ago. And like, I'm doing the talk, I'm giving my stuff, you know, I'm in my early

mid-twenties then. I'm talking about Angel Philosophy. And I could see this person kind of scribbling the whole time, writing these very, and then the first one to stick the hands up. And you know, you can't always tell who people are from the lights from the stage or whatever. So the lights come on and sign for questions. The first person has a question. That was Nick Sabin.

Like he was sitting in the front row. There should be nothing I'm teaching this person. He's the greatest to ever do what he does. He's had all the, and there he is, and he's just looking for one little line, like one little line that he can repeat at something down that's what he wants. And so it is funny that we kind of like kick ourselves

or we think we were even a little self-conscious or we hide it that like we like these inspirational things. But that's what that's actually the practice of it. And that's what like great people do is they just look for these little lines that get them to teach them again. That's really what 12-step groups are. It's just a collection of lines. Because you go like, I'll take it from here. I got it. Yes. You know, so it's like there's there's some that bother me. I'm going to be honest. Maybe I'm going to someone's like, her people, her people. I'm like, uh, or like,. Yes. You know, so it's like there's, there's some that bother me. I'm going to be honest. Maybe I'm going to someone's like, her people, her people, I'm like, ah, or like, what

doesn't kill you makes you stronger? You're like, or it kills you. Sure. And there's sometimes you have to consider the person that says it, you know, it's like, you know, you're kind of like, who said that? Okay. Well, maybe true for them, or it's true at that moment in your life. Totally.

When, I mean, it's like, when it's like Marilyn Monroe's like, if you can make a woman laugh, you can make her do anything. And you're like, I feel like that was Bill Cosby's motto, but okay, like I'm the first person to wanna, you know, sort of capsize something and make fun of it, but yeah, you're exactly right. Like 12-step programs people go in and they're like, I'm too smart for this, I don't need this.

And da-da-da, and this doesn't make any sense. And it's like, well, if it's hysterical, it's historical, and you're like, ugh, I just have to, that's just sense. And it's like, well, if it's hysterical, it's historical. And you're like, I just have, that's just true. And really helpful. And it's because somebody came, like at some point, that was an original line. Someone came up with that, where they stole it

from someone else and greet, they, you know, people say it in spin classes. But like, they got it from the ancients, or they got it from the Bible, or they, and, and, but at some point, that quote was not a cliche. It was a new way of expressing a thing and because it struck on something and then it was repeated so many times and it's this process that's working on it that then it becomes like simple but potentially life changing the advice is someone like my favorite one along those lines is that I got from being exactly to, which was it works if you work it. Yep.

If you've endured some things in the past, like I've never, I haven't done 100 yet, but I went out and did 54 earlier this year and before that I did 31 the year before and I ran my first marathon a few weeks before that and did 31 the year before and I ran my first marathon a few weeks before that and I'd never really done a distance thing, but I did long movements in the military. And I just knew, I know what that's like to want to quit. Yeah. And that's really the main skill is like, can you conquer your ability to want to stop doing a thing? Right. The very human desire to stop doing this painful thing. Do you have that muscle?

The muscle that says, no, we're going to keep going. A centricus line is we treat the body rigorously, so that it's not disobedient to the mind. And so if you have that muscle, the muscle that can get in a cold punch, the muscle that can push through, the muscle that can deal with people saying, you suck a lot until you don't suck,

that's like the ultimate muscle. It's really crazy what these meat sacks are capable of. It really is. And it's controlled by this little thing up there, mind smaller than others. But it's wild just to just yeah, just that that, that this thing can do that, can just endure and just keep going through all these pain.

And I wonder, I always wonder, you probably know more about this than me, a lot more about this, but just like the way these, the synapses work and like the nerves and the pain that we feel, like how much of that is phantom. I mean, I talked to a lot of, a lot of guys I served with in the military and I've got to know through the veteran community

that are missing limbs, right? And it's like phantom pain is a real thing. So it's like how much of that is actually phantom pain too. You know, when we're out there, and yeah, I was like, no, I have my legs. And my legs hurt, you're really bad. Well, like what percentage of that is this actual pain and what of it, what percentage of it is in our heads?

Just certain people feel different levels of that and they're doing the same thing and I don't know, it's super interesting to me. Have you, do you know who Courtney Dewalter is? I do, I mean, I don't know, I've never met her by no exactly as she is. No, I interviewed her on the package, she was talking about, she calls it like the pain cave.

So she's like, when it starts to hurt, I tell myself like I'm entering the pain cave and I want to like see what's back there. Right. So instead of going like, my body's telling me, this is painful stop, which is obviously why your body does it, but your body, it's like the check engine light or not the check the gas light comes on way before the car is actually going to run out of gas or else there's no purpose for the light. You know what I mean? And so if you can have this sort of almost exploratory mindset of like, well I want to know what's on the other side of this, I want to know how far back this goes. I want to know how far I can bend this thing before it breaks.

Eventually it's dangerous here, but that's how you end up pushing those limits. And it's sort of self-actualizing. If you're like, no, this is my limit, I can't go any further than that. That's like as far as you can go. But if you're like, I wonder how far I can go, you're probably going to go a little bit further. And I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, I'm not quoting, but definitely gonna reference a very cliche film in Fight Club, but that scene with the lie on the hand, in what I mean, and that chemical burn, and like feeling that pain, and just like being with it,

and like sitting with it, and working through it, and not trying to run from it, and not being afraid of it. Like it is, it definitely there's value in that. There's a lot of value in that and just understanding like, okay, well, this is absolutely normal. I'm supposed to be feeling this because look what I'm doing right now.

Sure. And this is good because it means my body's operating properly and kind of having a different approach to that focus, but that's really interesting about the cave too. I hadn't heard that and hadn't thought of it in that way, but just wanting to lean, really lean into that discomfort and pain more and be like, yeah, yeah, okay,

let's see, if I push, maybe I push a little harder right now, even though I'm feeling more pain than I have. And that's the opposite of what we want to do. That's what the voice in our head is telling us to slow down or to stop. Well, most people are physically capable of running a marathon. Like it's not like this superhuman physical task, right? Like you have enough muscles, you have enough body fat, you know, like you can physically

do the thing. It's you just don't think you can do the thing. And it's hard to do the thing. So you would stop at some point, right? And then later you'd be like, I feel like I could have kept going, right? And obviously, this is one of the functions of training. You run five miles a lot of times or start with one mile and then you run five miles a lot of times and you run 10 miles.

Then you're pushing your training. So you get to the point where, you know, maybe you've never run the marathon before. You've never run 26 whatever miles before you've to the point where maybe you've never run the marathon before, you've never run 26 whatever miles before you've entered the race. But you know, you know, on that race day, that you don't really need to be uncertain or question until you've gotten past the point of your furthest training. Do you know what I mean? Like, the, can I do this? Is it relevant for the first 15 miles? If you've done 15 miles before, right? It's really the only, the 10 at the end is really the only leap, you know? And so like, if you've done hardship before

and you've pushed through, if you've followed processes before, then you know, okay, I'm doing this again. I'm not, I don't know for, like, to me, that's always a question, like, how can you, how do you know you can do something you've never done before, right? That's like, you don't. You don't. But if you've done other hard shit, you know, hey,

first off, I'm vaguely, I'm familiar with the general shape of what it is to do hard things. Right. And then you also know like, hey, I'm someone who doesn't quit, I'm someone who figure stuff out, I'm someone who asks questions, you know, and you have this, so you don't have certainty that you can do it, but you know you have the ingredients to do it if it is in fact possible to do. Right. And that's a big part of the allure for me is I don't know.

Yeah. I don't know if I can. Like the unknown, I love the unknown. Sure. It's so interesting. And if I've already done something, like I've already, I'm already thinking about this, if I'm able to complete, if I'm able to finish lead bill, and I get done, like I wonder if I'll have any desire to ever do that again. And not because it was 100 miles and it's a lot of training and it's hard, but it's like, well, I know I can do that now. So we make a good reason.

That's a place. What should I do a better time, you know? That's true. But it just knowing myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it may be one time. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, that's something else I don't know.

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, that is, that's such that's such an, that's so interesting to me. And I've thought about this a lot lately too, about why, because people ask me often, why are you so, whether it's the word is obsessed or interested or focused on these challenges and doing these things that, like you said, maybe it's a once in a lifetime thing

for a lot of people, like that one thing. And I think, I think a lot of it comes from insecurity. Really? I just feel like you have something to prove. Yeah, I guess so. And I don't know if that's to myself or to, I don't, if it's not, there's not really a person that I can identify as like the person I'm trying to

make me, you know, be proud of me or whatever. Did you feel like people were proud of you early in your life or no? Oh, I think sometimes, I mean, I think my, you know, my, my folks are both very smart, very accomplished people. They've worked really hard.

My, my mom got a PhD in a male dominated field, one of the first women, and one of the Cal Berkeley. And, you know, my dad is a race horse veterinarian, and you got his veterinary degree at, there's a master's degree at university and a C, and you know, they're just, they're just very smart people. And so that's probably why I didn't go to college right away, because it was like, I gotta do it my way, and I gotta find my own path. And I didn't really work that hard in high school. But I also, yeah, there's nobody, at least in my life, that I was more happy to see

sitting in the stands at a game, whether it was a little eager, whatever, than my folks. You know, my parents, I wanted to make them proud, absolutely. But yeah, I don't know if it's like approving something to them, or if it's proven to something to 13 year old Nate that just feels, he's still in there, it's still me. It's the same guy, I mean, I get, I still have these fears, I'm not like unafraid of all these things. I'm absolutely afraid of all these things, but that's why they're appealing to me.

So I don't know, but I wonder if that's it, because I think I'm, I'm secure in a lot of ways. And like, mostly like who I am. And, you know, what I believe. And I think my willingness to really listen to other people's perspective and way of doing things. And I'm very open to that. I like to learn and take everything into account. Like a love, different, just different perspectives. But at the same time, I'm so obsessed, I guess, with like finding this next thing and I just wanna go do this.

And these things sort of come about, they're not, I never thought when I was a kid that I'd be running 100 miles and I never thought I was gonna join the military either. That wasn't really something. The only thing that was a kid dream was professional sports, you in the military either. It wasn't really something. The only thing that was a kid dream was professional sports, playing football. Did you feel like when you did those things,

did it feel good for a minute or as your mind always on to the next thing? No, it feels good for more than a minute. It definitely does. I mean, even the, I got to play in one NFL game, and I got caught. And it is what it is. I did everything I could on the field,

I actually played well, but it was the next big round of cuts in the preseason in 2015. And that was it. And it certainly wasn't like this. Oh, you know, that was cool and that was great, but what's next? It was, you know, I spent the next year

trying to get another shot, you know, and I had a few teams interested. It didn't happen. And that was it. But I still always think about that and grateful of that. And, you know, it's one of my, one of my proudest moments getting, getting to, getting to play. There's a feeling you get at Sunnybrook. This place is special.

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So you tapped in the book, well, I thought it was interesting, and you're saying you see people in the gym and they're like, I just want to get in shape. And you say, but sort of for what or how, right? You're sort of forcing them to be specific. This idea of being useful, I think, how would you push people in that direction, too?

So maybe generally, there's very few people that don't want to be useful. We all, I think, inherently want to be useful. But how do we channel that? Or how does a person find their reason or their canvas to be useful? Well, I think the first or the most important thing is what you just said, you know, to have a clear vision and a clear goal. Yeah. Because when you ask someone in a gym, okay, you want to be in shape. What is the reason why you want to be in shape? Because being in shape, it's just very broad, what has it been, and how do you get motivated if you don't have a specific goal?

So I think at the end of this conversation where people didn't have to really start thinking about, and some people say, well, the doctor told me that I'm now 55 years old, my cholesterol is high, and my blood pressure is high, and they thought instead of just going on drugs and Describing me medication. I should try vigorous exercising every day for a little bit not too long, but just every day something and So they do that

But I always tell them I said look if there's a specific chord that you have where you say okay by Christmas I want to have 20 pounds less. Now you're shooting for a specific goal and now you weigh yourself every day. Now you watch what you eat because you always know that you're stepping on this scale and you want the way less and less and less every day. And by Christmas, you want to have 20 pounds less.

So you can afford a little bit picking out at the Christmas time or whatever because maybe you feel overweight or whatever. So when we said specific goals like that, or why sometimes talk about it then when I was a kid, 15 years old, I wanted to go the next year to the lake where I grew up. And I wanted to be more muscular and impress the girls. And people say, you were actually saying that? I said, no, I was not saying that to anybody. I said, but it was my goal, and I dealt with it. I said, I dealt with it, and it motivated me

to go into train every day and all of a sudden. I said, and it's of course a stupid motivation, but it works. I said, so I'm telling people, I said, no matter how stupid your motivation is, it doesn't matter, how silly your motivation is it doesn't matter How silly it is it doesn't matter but pick a goal and then go after that goal have a specific reason for it because for Everything it gives us more motivation when we have a reason. It's no different than a

Kid that is coming out of high school and he now goes to college and he wants to be a doctor. Well, that's a goal. Well, that's a big goal. And now all these classes that he would take would be specific classes that would get him to that goal, to make that goal a reality. There's so many that go to university just because they're here always this. I always stay American way and I got to have a university I have to have a degree and all this stuff but they don't know for what right so they go in there and what did it do they go in the joint at the university to go and stay in some Flat house and they get drunk they eat junk food they gain weight and all this and they're drunk more than they're really studying and all this

So because they are aimlessly kind of like going through university for as many as they've finished and they don't earn well money because they haven't really shot the study American history or something that's a they were not used like on 70 if you become an educator of some sort, then you can use those things or say college, you study or English to study. Yeah, we can use this, but that's used for something specifically. So I think it's always good if you say, I'm going to be a businessman.

I'm going to study a real estate business. And so therefore all of this that you study is like you study the microeconomics and macroeconomics you study accounting, you get really micro economics and macro economics you study accounting get really good in math and the algebra and geometry and all of those kind of things and you really get good in writing business letters and in communicating and in marketing and the publicizing products and all of this stuff. So all of the stuff that is important to be a good businessman because no matter what business you're in, you have to be able to sell,

to market, to communicate the product, whatever you're dealing with. So then you can take classes for that. So this is why it's more fun when we have a goal. And this is why I stressed this in my book about have a vision, have a clear goal like I had when I was 15 years old. I wanted to be the world champion in bodybuilding.

I wanted to be another rich park. And five years later, after that dream and that vision that I had, five years later, I was standing on that very same stage in London, where Reg Park, one is Mr. Universe Consisting, 1951, in 1958 and in 1965, he won three Mr. Universe titles. And at the very same stage, I stood there in 1966, and then in 1967, I won the Mr. Universe

title on that stage. So I saw firsthand how that vision drove me to the gym hours a day where the normal amateur bodybuilder didn't train three, four hours a day. They trained an hour and a half. But I did the weightlifting, I did the powerlifting, I did the bodybuilding, I did the reps and the heavy weights and everything like this. And then by the time after hours and hours of training and torturing myself and going through this, I started winning competitions and junior, Mr. Europe, then Mr. Europe, best built men of Europe and then second, Mr. Universe, then Mr. Universe, with the age of 20. So it was amazing. So now I knew, this is what I have to do for the rest of my life. I have to have a very clear vision. And so then of course, the vision expands. You's saying, I want to be not just

Mr. Universe, I got to go and become the greatest bodybuilder four times. So that becomes you knew, go to the year after one wind that many Mr. Universe titles as a red spark when I have to win as many Mr. Olympia titles as Sergio Lever and Larry Scott won. And so I have to just go after those titles. And so eventually I became the greatest bodybuilder of all times in 1975 after winning the sixth, 1980, the seventh Miss Olympia competition

and the 13th World Bodybuilding title. And so it was like, so, and that same idea went into acting. Again, I had a very clear vision to become another clean beast with a child's bronze, something like this. So, every one of my goals approached that way. Well, it's when you have the goal, you have the motivation, which is key, but then something that's really interesting about your career, you also know what to say no to.

That might be exciting or lucrative or interesting or standard, but it takes you further away from where you're going. Right, so the path, so I think someone who has a strong idea of what they're trying to accomplish, clear vision, as you call it, strong sense of who they're trying to help or what they want to accomplish,

then they also know how to pass on things that are coming their way. They know how to pass on distractions, they know how to pass on temptations, they also know how to pass on, doing the same thing over and over again, because the next part of their vision actually requires them to go over here. You have to have that clarity. You're absolutely correct, because I remember, for instance, and I mentioned that also in

my book that I was in the middle of my bodybuilding career, winning one Miss Olympia Competition after the next, and being known as the bodybuilder with the business brain. Because I was going to Santa Monica City College, taking classes there. I was going to West Los Angeles College to take classes, business classes there. I was going to UCLA extension courses because I couldn't go to one university

because I was applying for the working permit and not for for student visa. So I only was allowed to take two classes at one place. So I jumped around all over, but I was taking classes and I was getting really, and my thing was business, you know, and I studied how to sell. So I said, I have to become a successful businessman in America and know how to do business here and all. So people came to me with business ideas a lot of times, but they didn't really fall into the category of where I wanted to go, which is into the show business. So I was offered by the Jack Lelain, a gymnasium empire,

here in California, to run and to manage the gymnasium chain. And it would be a lot of money, I think it was like $200,000 a year, which is imagine in the early seven, in the mid seventies. So there's a lot of money. So better say to myself, okay, I would make this money, but now I would have to be in that business, eight hours, 10 hours a day. And that would not give me the time to be able to go and take speech classes,

accent removal classes, English classes, acting classes, all of the things that I and work with stunts and with stuntmen and all this, all the stuff that I needed to do to get into the direction where I wanted to go, which is to become a leading man. So I said, so therefore I would derail myself by saying yes to this. Great offer. I would derail myself and possibly my dream to make like clean these with a million dollars a movie because that was my dream.

So Charles Branson cleaned Eastwood and Malam Brando they were getting over a million dollars of the or a million dollars movie. So that was like the number 10. So some say for you know if there's three that ladder isn't that busy and it's not that crowded up there. I think there's room for another one. So I felt absolutely convinced. I saw it very clearly for me to be an action hero. I had no idea how I'm going to get there, but I know this is where I'm going to go. And therefore, this particular offer had to be turned down to become a manager for gymnasium chain. And I turned it down. They thought that was crazy, but only then a few years later, when I did, you know, stay hungry, then I did pumping iron, then I did the chain man's food story,

then I worked with Kirk Douglas and with Anne Margaret in the villain. And then obviously I got this big offer to do Conan the Barbarian. And Conan the Barbarian was $250,000 with a sequel obligation to make a million dollars. So now I said, and I said, in 1977, I signed the deal for Conan to do a few Conan movies. And so I went back to my friend who offered me that and they said, you see, and he says, no, I don't use smart. I mean, I get it. I get it now. We have to say no to some things to say yes to other things.

That's right. When we say yes to something, we realize we're also saying no to other things. Yes, absolutely. And you notice it's like, it's, imagine when you're governor. I mean, how many things you have to say no to? Sure. Right? I mean, you have your family. You have to work on all the different legislations that are coming you to your desk.

You have to go out and do fundraising activities. You have to, you can paint literally all the time. So, I mean, there's just so much work that you have to do. So, then you really have to stay focused and disciplined and say no to a lot of things. There was always like nuggets in other books that I read. Like I loved like a lot of different self-improvement books or whatever. You find nuggets of it and I love history. So every once in a while I'd hear these things like a quote from Aristotle, like freedom is obedience to self-formulator rules, or

I'd write something like that and you're just like, huh, and then you hear other things. And then it was really your books that introduced me on a whole nother level to it. And of course, Duncan and myself and Duncan Penn, who I think you had on this podcast, yeah, is somebody who I talk about it with all the time as well. Really, yeah, interesting. All right, so walk me through how to stoses and help you get sober.

So people think that rehab, people who haven't been is like, I think they have this problem. People think that rehab, people who haven't been, is like, I think they have this preconceived notion that there's like this pill they give you. And suddenly it just all goes away. You know, and you have to rehab me, come out and things are just fine. And what I realized it was for me, when I was there,

And what I realized it was for me when I was there, is it's a deep dive into why we make the choices we make and why we're so self-destructive as human beings. And after you start understanding more about what is kind of triggering you on this journey, the answer to these kind of insecurities is discipline. And it is a structure. And people, it's funny, as I've read more, as I get older and the more things I've taught

myself, I've realized that a lot of the spiritual practices or a lot of Books that I've read are almost saying the same thing in different ways. Sure. Like the theme that I found most important to me is that For lack of a better word discipline is destiny. Yeah and And That has been my way out of The turbulence in my life back back in the day. Yeah, I think like if anyone's ever been to physical therapy or rehab from an injury You get the sense that it's like oh, I'm gonna be worked on like I'm gonna go and I'm gonna get Massages or this kind of treatment or this medicine, but really they're like no

Here's the work that you have to do right and? And it's the same for, I think, the other forms of rehab. Like, you don't go there and then they're like, here are all the secrets to not drinking or doing this or that anymore, what they're like is, here are the things that you have to do every single day of your life. And the second you stop, like, as they say, they say it works if you work it, right?

Like if you do that work, then you'll stay sober. If you don't do that work, you won't. And it's really, really hard work. It's like the hardest work because it's on yourself and it's against habits or practices or assumptions you've had your whole life. Yeah. 100%. It's, I mean, and some people refer that as, refer to that as the program.

Yes. Really, it's just your program. It's whatever you need to do every day to, to center yourself. Yeah. And to feel grounded. And admittedly, there's days where I'm not as good. Yeah. Sure. And there's days that I am. And I think one of the, the things I'm really trying to find tune right now is now is how to do this when things that are out of my control are taking me out of my element. Like I'm not gonna be on my farm in Bastrop, you know. Or you know, I'm not gonna be in my element.

I'm gonna be traveling and overseas. And I think that is an art in itself is how to do those basic things that will center you for the rest of the day. Because that's really all the program is, once you've understood what is kind of fueling those self-destructive behaviors. Isn't there an acronym for like HALT? HALT. Yeah, yeah, walk with you.

HALT. Hungry, angry, lonely, tired. And then I add Thirsty. Because I don't know why they don't bring that in too. I'm like, I'm like, there's times. And basically, all that saying is This is something I realize I think whenever you're sitting there and you're going like man like I just I need a vacation. Yeah, like I just I need to be in Mexico right now or damn like I wish my house was bigger I just wish I was in a bigger house

I find it so funny because I'm like, do you actually want to be in Mexico right now? Or do you like the person you think you're going to be Mexico right now? Yes. And it's same with that house, right? Like, like, or do you like the person you've become to be in that? Mm-hmm. You know? And I think, you know, it's kind of the same theme from your book, is just like, you get what you are. Yes. So just be the best version of yourself as possible. Well, it's funny, in meditations, there's a passage where Marcus realizes,

like doing exactly that. He's like, I know you think you wanna get away from it all, like in the country or the beach or whatever, and he's like, but actually, whatever you need is inside of you right now. I said, like, you can retreat, and go on vacation inside your own soul right now. And I think it's true, right?

We think, okay, if I can just get away from all these external things, then I won't feel what I'm feeling. And obviously sometimes that's what we do. And then sometimes we do like a substance or a thought pattern or whatever, as the other version of escape. But what we really just have to deal with is whatever that feeling is, and if you can deal with that feeling and process and work on it, that's actually a more sustainable

and permanent solution to that thing. But I think to me, one of the things that addiction is, is like a sort of a proven pattern where whenever you get that feeling, you do that bad thing. I think you're not supposed to do. And then the relief becomes associated with that feeling, even if it's also destroying your life at the same time. 100%. And it's your coping mechanism.

It is your higher power. It's what you go to. Yes. Right. It's like we fall on our habits and if that's your habit, you're going to fall on that, right? But I'm so grateful for stoicism in my life and I think that so many young kids right now, especially if people growing up in this world

with social media and just being flooded by the self-promoting people. I'm not saying that there's any, like everybody has their own life, and I'm not about to judge them, but it's just, if I was a kid growing up and like my idols were some of the things that I see now, it's very scary because I think that it just kind of can...

We don't understand that it's not real. Exactly. That it's a performance. Yes. And in some cases, it's literally not real because it filters on top of it and there's editing on top of it. And you don't understand that that is not actual life.

That is fake life. The highlight reel of people's life, or for some of these business gurus, this is their way of getting you to sign up for something, right? Yes, yes. You think Andrew Tater, whatever, is successful, whatever, but actually his only success is selling you stuff. Exactly. Well, speaking of your show heels, it's like watching professional wrestling

and not knowing that it's fake. Like, yes, that it's all scripted, that it's designed to make you feel good about some people, bad about some people, if I carelessly follow along, stimulates very primal urges, which when it is presented as entertainment, there's absolutely no problem with it.

The problem is, it's not. Like these are, you're following these parenting bloggers and going like, why am I shitty because my house isn't clean like theirs. And you don't understand that they picked this location that they're shooting from because you can't see what's on the other side of the couch, which is the same mess that's in your house

or that the house is a rental or the car is a rental. Yeah, exactly. Or whatever. And I just feel like it's this kind of teaching for people that really is the way out. Because if I could sum up everything that I've read into a few words from you, it's, you're gonna be okay. It's going to be okay. Follow this. Like,

like, because I think that everyone is being made to feel like they're not good enough right now. Sure. You know, in the world. And through this, you realize that you can do that for yourself, you know, through these small practices that this everyday routine, that you don't need validation externally, that this all comes internally and happiness isn't something to be gotten. It is the way. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us

and it would really help the show. We appreciate it and I'll see you next episode. Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic early and ad free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad free with Wondery Plus in Apple podcasts. Get game day ready at BET MGM, an official sportsbook partner of the National Football League. From game-winning drives to unbelievable catches, BET MGM gives you the chance to take those highlight reel NFL plays to a whole new level. BET MGM has something for every football fan, so you're sure to find a way to get off

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