The Daily Stoic - Rock Bottom, Recovery, and Starting Over at 40 | Jon Gustin

Episode Date: May 9, 2026

Jon Gustin got sober at the beginning of 2023, but as he explains in today’s episode, getting sober was not the end of the struggle. It was the beginning of finally facing everything he had spent years avoiding. Jon talks with Ryan about his unhealthy relationship with substances, the emotional rock bottom that forced him to change, and the daily practices that helped him stay sober and focus on being a better husband and father. Jon Gustin is the founder of The Tired Dad LLC and the voice behind The Tired Dad, a movement built around showing up for what matters most. His book, The Tired Dad.: 100 Reflections on Showing Up for What Matters Most, is out now! Follow Jon Gustin on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. 👉 Check out Jon's NEW book: The Tired Dad.: 100 Reflections on Showing Up for What Matters Most📚 Books Jon Mentioned: Stillness Is The Key by Ryan HolidayThe Daily Dad by Ryan Holiday 🎟️ DAILY STOIC LIVE | Ryan Holiday is coming to a city near you! Grab tickets here |  https://www.dailystoiclive.com/🎙️ AD-FREE | Support the podcast and go deeper into Stoicism by subscribing to The Daily Stoic Premium - unlock ad-free listening, early access, and bonus content: https://dailystoic.supercast.com/🎥 VIDEO EPISODES| Watch the video episodes on The Daily Stoic YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos✉️ FREE STOIC WISDOM | Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemailSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the Daily Stoic podcast, designed to help bring those four key stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world. A lot of people think, you know, sobriety is about quitting something. I got to quit smoking. I've got to quit drinking. I got to quit doing this or that. But anyone that's kicked a serious habit knows that it's not so much about quitting as it is confronting. Not just your relationship with that substance, but why? you turn to it in the first place, what it's doing in your life, what whole it's filling,

what problem it's helping you medicate or run away from, you know, it's about facing your emotions instead of running from them, how to deal with chaos and dysregulation, instead of just reaching for relief. And I think that's why stoicism has become so popular in 12-step groups and recovery, but also just anyone trying to get control of themselves. trying to deal with those things that Seneca says, make us a slave. And Seneca isn't even just talking about substances, right? Seneca's talking about ambition. It's talking about powers, talking about wanting to be liked, wanting to be famous, wanting to be rich. And for the Stoics, it wasn't about perfect abstinence necessarily, especially for some of these things that actually are a part of life, unlike, you know,

cigarettes which you don't need to smoke or crack, which you don't need to do. Some of these other things, are a more integral part of life and therefore confronting them and our dependence on them or our unhealthy relationship with them is even harder. I was talking about this a few years ago with Troy Baker.

We did a great episode of the podcast. We were talking about Marks-Ruellis, and the idea that Marks-Rurialis is not the work of someone who has mastered himself once and for all, but someone who's still wrestling, still correcting, still trying, still confronting himself

in the fight to be the person that philosophy wants him. him to be. This is what we said. It's important that we don't see the Stoics. He's not writing in meditations from this sort of sage-like Zen perspective of having triumphed over his emotions. It's the opposite. He's saying that because he got pissed at people today. I literally picture him, you know, from the river. You know, he's like, sitting there going, you got to get your shit together. Yeah. When there's a passage towards the end, he's like, you're an old fucking man and you're still doing this, you know, and you realize this is not, this is not teenage Marcus putting down rules

for how he wants to be. This is 30, 40, 50 years of philosophy, Marcus, who's still having trouble with this shit. With great teachers along the way. It's not like he didn't have a model for it. Yeah. Like he had literally the best education and he's still struggling. So there, there is sometimes where I think that the employing of comparison can be helpful. And that's what, Today's conversation with John Guston is about. It was a lovely little conversation. John is the creator of the tired dad. If you spent any time on TikTok or Instagram, you've got kids,

probably the algorithm has surfaced you, his stuff. A couple of years ago, his wife bought him still, and this is the key, my book, and then Daily Dad, which he was saying were sort of a transitional point in his life when he was trying to get sober, trying to write more, trying to be a better father and husband. And in this episode today, I wanted to riff a little bit with him on his path to sobriety.

What made him change, practices that are helping him stay sober, and how Stoicism became a part of that journey. You can check out John's new book, The Tired Dad, 100 reflections on showing up for what matters most. And then, of course, you should follow him on all the social platforms. Just search The Tired Dad. It's everywhere. It's a great follow.

He's awesome. And I think you'll like this little episode. I just heard this stat that shocked me, given that I hear from the sales staff at my publisher quite a bit. The stat is sales teams spend about 50% of their time on admin work instead of selling, relationship building, closing deals, which means they're not selling, right? And that's where today's sponsor comes in, Pipe Drive. It's a simple, intelligent CRM tool for small and medium businesses. Pipe Drive was built from the ground up to strip away that manual work,

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You're getting clear directions on how to improve, the kind of visit. ability that used to take months now is always on. And Optimize only works on applications your admin improves so no personal activity is captured and no one's privacy is at risk. If you want to see what optimized could look like for your organization, visit Scribe.how slash stoic, s-c-r-I-B-E dot how-slash-stoic. So tell me about getting sober. Yeah, I've never had a good relationship with any substance. It started when I was 13, 7th grade. my friend gave me Adderall. And it was, this is amazing.

I want to feel like this forever. It's like, it's solving all my problems with like socialization and everything. That's kind of the sign you're an addict, right? When it's like that magical experience the first time? Yeah. When you become an addict the first time you do something, which is how everything's been. First time I got drunk, I got alcohol poisoning at a school dance.

And you would think that would be, okay, this isn't for me. No. So that's how I knew my relationship with substances just was not healthy. Yeah. And lied to myself for years thinking, I can control it. And, you know, you get sober for like three months and you're like, great. But you make up for lost time. Yeah. When you're back? But 2020 really was not good for it. Because suddenly you're trapped at home with yourself. Mm-hmm. And we had our second born, my son, during that time.

late 19 we had him and we were in the same boat yeah I always used it to just like hide my emotions you know not deal with stuff I grew up with a very non-expressive family my dad is you know military my grandpa was military it wasn't I didn't feel like I could be expressive you know I was though I'm a big feeler when you when you when you drank they could come out or was that it helped you keep them locked up both You know, it just, you know, it solves the stuff that you should deal with. Yeah. And so flash forward to me getting sober in the beginning of 23, the second day into 2023. That first year was, it's not like it was, oh, my gosh, I'm sober. This is so great. It was like, oh, the last 20 years, here they are. Yeah.

This is all the stuff you need to deal with and, you know. Because like running away from your problems is like putting them on a credit card, right? There's just the interest that is accruing. And then you look at the balance one day and you're like, oh, shit, I have 20 years of deferred, accumulated interests on all the shit that has been piling up since childhood. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I knew I was being honest with myself that I knew it wasn't going to get better.

And my kids were young at the time, but I knew where it was going. And I didn't want to have to get sober when they were, you know, when they knew. what was going on. Right. You know, and I just didn't want to be that dad. And I just stopped lying to myself and I just dealt with it head on. What did you do? Do you go to rehab?

You're going to meetings. How'd you do it? No, just really just, I just stopped and, like, consumed a lot of material, you know? A full circle moment here. My wife got me stillness is key and it came out in 2019. I think it was before. and I shelved it. Yeah.

I didn't know who you were at the time. I didn't know what stoicism was. I always had this idea that stoicism was just to hold everything in and kind of this like Sparta mentality. Right? Yeah, sure. As time went on, I picked it up again during that time when it was like, all right, after 2020, I need to figure my life out. And I read it and I was like, oh, okay, this makes so much sense of inner peace and dealing with. everything, killing the ego, all that.

And then the next book my wife got me was Daily Dad for Father's Day. Oh, wow. Yeah. So it was kind of like a big part of that journey in the beginning. Really, 22, 2022 was like everything came to a head internally. It was never a lot of people when I did get sober, they're like, I didn't know you had a problem. Right. My wife knew what was going on.

Was it a thing that you guys would fight about? like it was there or it was just kind of unsaid. We never fought about that. It didn't help things, you know? Just normal arguments were amplified. Yeah. Right? Because of it.

But I was never an angry drunk or anything like that. But internally, I was really, really low. And I knew something had to change. And I mean, she, my wife has been, I think I would have had to have gone somewhere if I didn't have her. Yeah. She has been such a big support. to me in everything. And she's helped me express myself more.

She's very expressive and just like true teammates. Yeah. And been through some stuff and a lot of it just had to do with ego. You know, in marriage, like ego does not work. It does not. Because there's another person. Yes. Yeah.

And once we figure that out and also kids change your marriage completely. Sure. And it's uncharted territory. No one was really guiding us. It was all on our own. So was it a clean break for you or was it a period of a couple of years where you're really getting serious about it? Oh, yeah.

It was probably 21 to 23. I was trying really hard and would take breaks and everything. But then 23. What made the difference in 23? Like what set you up to be successful in 23 that you didn't have in 22 and 21? I would just say it was just kind of that rock bottom moment emotionally in terms of. internally, that I was like, done. I'm like, I'm done.

I need to figure this out. I'll do whatever I need to do. But, you know, I did coal plunges every day. I don't even care the benefits of it. Like, I did it because it caught my mind down. It was something extreme. For you, was it finding other ways of sort of quieting, whatever that thing that you were using drugs and alcohol to address?

Yep. What are some of those things? Breath work. cold plunging, reading, writing, journaling, running, working out, just anything to get my mind off of it and to stay. And then I got really like focused on, you know, being a dad and the, and being a good husband and just kind of focused all that because it's the extreme behavior of an addict, you have to switch to extreme behavior to something that's good for you.

Yeah. Or bad for you, right? So the energy, it's like you have this energy or this sort of restlessness or dysfunction that doesn't just go away. Right. It needs an outlet. Exactly. That's why you see like addicts become ultra marathon runners or something, you know, or. But do you find social media can be a dysfunctional outlet for that energy too?

There is that dopamine rush, the ego of it. You can stir shit up. There's an endless amount of energy like just on the other side of your phone too. Is that weird for you given that it's also your job? Yeah. We know that if there's not a balance with it, it can be toxic to you being an addictive personality. Yeah.

Obviously. But I try to use it to put out a positive message. Right. And to help people through it. And, you know, that's easier said than done because social media is social media. And I just mean I could, I could see an environment where like if I got sober, it's like, oh, no, no, this isn't a bad habit. This is my job.

Oh, yeah. Where it can go into a work addiction, but then if your work is your phone in social media, I could see that as being a kind of a potent place. It can, but I'm super aware of that because that comes from that, like you said, the ego. Oh, it's my job. And there's been times, you know, you learn from your mistakes. There's been times, definitely seasons where it's like, no, this is my job. But, you know, you, it's endless.

Yeah, there's endless amounts of attention. Yeah. And never stops. Conflict that you can just kind of get high off of. Yeah. And there's so many platforms. And the work never ends. And just being an entrepreneur or self-employed, the work never ends.

You can work 24 hours a day. You know that. Yeah. You know, so yeah, you have to be mindful of that for sure. So it's going well? Yeah. The sobriety thing, you've got like two years, three years? Three years, over three years.

How does it feel? Is it better? Yeah, a lot better. And just going through that struggle and dealing with everything of the past 20 plus years that I hid. Yeah. And going through adolescence, like, high, basically. Sure. Learn so much more about myself.

And kind of have to relearn how to be a person. For sure. Yeah. And now I'm 40 years old. I truly feel, what's that quote about life begins at 40? and everything else is just practice. Like, that's my quote right there. Yeah.

That is what I feel like. I feel like I'm literally starting a whole new life. And that past life was just messing up a lot. Yes. And I imagine, so going into your 40s sober, you're like, oh, this is how I have to deal with things that I've been not dealing with. Or this is, this is, I have to learn how to have the skills to deal with, whether it's a tantrum or it's stress about money. you're having to learn how to manage that that you weren't managing before

because you were just put a band-y on it. Yeah, right. And you feel like stoicism was a part of that journey for you? For sure. What do you think you took from it? The ego, for sure. And that helped my marriage

and it just helped everything. You're not special. You're not exempt. I feel like ego is like the downfall of everything. Yes. Like, it's why people are workaholics. It's why people aren't present with their families. It's why marriages fail.

Like, it's a big part of it. Because you're not paying attention to what matters. And it does you know, it does you know favors at all. So ego was huge. And then just also that inner peace, like, and through the chaos. So that's the hardest part, right? Stoicism is the hardest when your kids are both screaming, you're trying to cook dinner, you're burning dinner, and it's just absolute chaos.

and you're trying not to lose your credit. It's helpful to have something that can take the edge off. Yeah. The problem is that that cure is worse than the disease. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it will help during that time, but then what are the repercussions later? Right.

Yeah, the thing about ego and sort of addiction is it's like, it's this thing where you're like special, but then also you feel bad about yourself at the same time. Like, isn't there like an alcoholic's anonymous saying about like being the piece of shit at the center of the universe? Like it's this weird ego, but also profound sense of worthlessness and loneliness. Yeah, I think, I think especially with non-addicts that don't have addictive personalities, they look at other addicts like, it's a discipline thing. Yeah. And it's not a discipline thing. And it's also, it is selfish, but at some point, it's like you don't, you're not necessarily a bad person or a selfish person.

You might be, but you might not be too. And then getting sober, a lot of the times people can carry that shame with them. Yeah. And that doesn't help their sobriety is to hold that regret and shame. And it's just kind of like, that wasn't you, move on and deal with it. Yeah. And I think obviously both parenting Stoicism and sobriety, I think how little control you have over things and the ability to sort of let go and roll with the punches is like, that really difficult but a central lesson.

But there's a difference between knowing it and knowing it. For sure. And I mean, isn't that the problem with like self-help and everything that you can read all the self-help books? Yeah. You can read all the Stoicism books. But you still have to do it. Yeah. You can have all that knowledge.

But what are you doing in your real life to show that? But specifically with addiction, there's a couple of layers here, which is like, one, you can know you have a problem, but not believe you really have a problem. Right? So there's like the knowing, hey, I know this isn't working for me. I know I got to quit this. But then you can say like later or down the road or it's not as bad as other people or I've got an arm and control. So you have that element of just like you know it, but you don't really feel it, you know, where you feel it but you don't know or whatever it is. And then there's the part where it's like, then you're you know what you need to do. Mm-hmm. And then the actual doing of it day-to-day is the next part of it. It's like, hey, I know these are the, these are the healthy habits. These are the practices. These are the things that keep me sober, that keep me on the right path.

And then are you doing it day-to-day? Or are you making excuses or are you making exceptions? And then that's when you get yourself into trouble. So there's the knowing and then really knowing and being ready. Like, as you said, you wanted to get sober for a while, but it's not until some magical point in 2023 where you're like, okay, now it's really, really, really the time. And then just because you know it's the time, that doesn't help you right now. Three years later where you have to do it again today and tomorrow and the day after. Yeah, it's just one day at a time, really.

And that's a mindset that I shifted was don't just say, okay, it's going to start today. last forever. Yeah. It's going to start today and it's going to just be today and then it's going to be tomorrow. Yeah. And then, I mean, sometimes you go hour by hour in the beginning. I'm just not going to do it right now. Right now. And as long as you stack enough of those on top of each other, you're there. Yeah. Yeah. And it comes down to really that self-reflection. So you have to be honest with yourself. Yeah. Like, am I an addict or maybe this just isn't serving me anymore. Right. And I want to stop it. Yeah. You know, It doesn't have to be, I think addiction and everything is like, okay, you're homeless on the streets or you went to jail or you got your third DUI. Sometimes it's just a mental breakdown that gets you there.

Or just a sense of like, hey, I had enough, man. Yeah, or a sense of I just don't want to be dependent on something or I don't want to have that glass of wine anymore. Yeah. I'm just going to stop. I don't want to wake up feeling X, Y, or Z in the morning anymore. And I know this is why I wake up that way. And that is, was the biggest, if I got something back from it immediately, waking up with my kids early without a headache. Sure.

Or not being like a brain fog in the morning. And just having really good mornings every single morning was nice. I heard this interview with Flea from the Red Hot Chili Pepsi. He was talking about how he wasn't an addict the way that some of the other members of the band were, but he would only do drugs or drink when he was out of town. He was like, I never do it around my kids. And then he just had this epiphany or someone said to him once, like, hey, but what if your kids need you, like, while you're gone? Like, they just want to talk on the phone and you can't because you're hot. Or it's like, what if they just, like, just even from like an energy standpoint, your kids going through something.

And you're over here in oblivion because you're saying out of sight, out of mind. And it's like that as a parent, you don't get to say out of sight, out of mind. You never are actually off the clock. Yeah. And so that's when he decided to get totally sober. And I like that, like, the idea that, like, your kids could need you, wherever you are in the world, whatever's happening in their world or your world, you just don't have the luxury of checking out and doing something as selfish or as sort of, yeah, as selfish as going like, hey, I'm going to not be me for a while. Yeah, for sure. And that's a perfect example.

and even just being just present with them, like remembering things with them, like the bedtime routines. And my kids say, I don't know about your kids, but they say the craziest stuff right before bed. And you're like, where the hell did that come?

They could just be like kids the whole day and just, you know, they're just kids. And then all of a sudden. Yeah, they'd become a philosopher. Oh my gosh. My daughter would be like this whole like reflection of life and who she is. And I'm like, what the heck?

Yeah, and if you had a bottle of wine at dinner, you're not going to be there for that. Yeah, you're just like, all right, come on, come on, you know. Sure. And to be like that fully present, and I know Marcus Aurelius, the extreme version is like, act like they're not even going to wake up the next day. Yeah, totally. You know, and. Well, and if they don't, how are you going to feel if you passed out in the bed next to them

before they fell asleep? Yeah. Because you had too many drinks at dinner. Yeah. or just being on your phone too much or with anything. You know, I talk about sobriety and everything, but I feel like everybody has some sort of addiction. Seneca says we're all slaves to something.

Yeah. Yeah. And it could be ambition, which is work, it could be fame. It could be attention. It could be social media. Yeah, it could be drugs or alcohol. It could be things that are socially acceptable or things that are socially unacceptable.

But there's something that has power over you and that power is getting between you and your kids. Why do you think that is? Do you think it's like a control thing? Do you think it's just trying to find comfort in something or a purpose? I mean, I think probably all the above. There's the stuff that takes the edge off. And then there's also the fact that other people design those things to be good at hooking people, right? Like the smartest people in the world have designed that phone to be hard to resist.

It's like you wouldn't live in a casino. You'd be like, this is a bad environment. But you sort of carry one around with you. Yeah. So it's like we're, and we're just a sudden. to it, right? Because we come from an environment of scarcity and to have unlimited amounts of things to scroll or check or it's its own addiction.