The Daily Stoic - Ryan And Guy Raz On Controlling Only What You Can

Episode Date: May 7, 2023

When a recent Q&A session between Ryan and Robert Greene fell apart just hours before the conference due to emergency health concerns, the moment presented Ryan with an opportunity to lean into the Stoic practice of controlling only what one can. Thinking quickly and without panic, Ryan called his friend, NPR host and journalist Guy Raz, who was planning to sit front-row at the event, and asked if he wanted to fill in. Guy’s enthusiastic acceptance and willingness to jump into such an unusual situation led to the Q&A session and surrounding discussion that we present to you today. He and Ryan answer questions from the audience about what Marcus Aurelius would make of today’s notion of kindness, why Ryan favors formlessness, the daily habits that one can change in order to become a better Stoic, and more.Ryan’s conversation with Robert Greene has been rescheduled, and you can go to ryanholiday.net/tour for dates and tickets.✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic Podcast early and add free on Amazon Music. Download the app today. Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic Podcast. On Sundays, we take a deeper dive into these ancient topics with excerpts from the Stoic texts, from the Stoic texts, audio books that you like here recommend here at Daily Stoic, and other long form wisdom that you can chew on on this relaxing weekend. We hope this helps shape your understanding of this philosophy and most importantly that you're able to apply it to a life. Thank you for listening. Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another weekend episode of the Daily Stoic podcast. Life is unpredictable. You make these plans, but as they say, we propose God disposes. You know back in March, I had two really exciting events, Robert Green and I were going to do a big conversations in front of a live audience, Q&A, Mean Greed, just he and I doing what I've been lucky enough to do with him now for many years. I was excited to

to be able to bring that to an audience and then we got to San Francisco and Robert was just rocked with a bunch of health issues. We ended up having to call a hotel doctor. He went to the emergency room twice. It was very scary. He was in a lot of pain. And he was, he would get, he was gonna get on that stage, even if it killed him. And so we ended up pulling the emergency break. We're looking, we're gonna have to cancel both events. And then this last minute thing, save us,

which is, I got a text from someone I knew who lived in San Francisco, was coming to the event, and they wanted to have dinner beforehand. And it was Guy Ross. Guy Ross, the amazing author of How I Built This, that one of the greatest podcasts about entrepreneurship on the planet, it's also got a great kids podcast called While on the World, is a new podcast called The Great Creators. Just an awesome dude, old school journalist, one of the OGs in public radio, just a great dude, super smart dude,

his wife Hannah Ross is amazing also, and she let me impose blow up their dinner date, steal her husband, and he saved me, Robert, and this audience from being very, very disappointed. And Guy Ross and I ended up having a great conversation, which is what I'm bringing you in today's episode. I think you're really going to like it. If you've never heard Guy Ross's stuff, I don't know where you've been living. You can check out his podcast everywhere.

We carry how I built this in the Payneaporch bookstore, a big bestseller, a lovely book that I was lucky enough to be a part of. It's a great book. I've been on his wisdom from the top podcasts which you can listen to. But that brings me to the announcement that I wanted to tie here on today's episode. We are, of course, rescheduling that date in Seattle.

And we are adding a new date, Robert Green and I, in Los Angeles in September. So you can go to RyanHoliday.net slash tour to check out both of those. We're gonna be at the Wilshire Eble Theater on September 19th. We're gonna be at the Moore Theater in Seattle on September 21st.

You can go to RyanHoliday.net slash tour for tickets and a special, very, very big thank you to Dawson Carroll, the podcast producer here, video producer, I mentioned a couple times, I think actually recently again, I took Robert to the doctor, but Robert was looking like he was doing better and then he got worse, and then Dawson took Robert to the hospital, actually flew him back to Los Angeles to make

sure he was okay. He absolutely above and beyond a great dude. Now Robert's feeling better. It was hard for both of us to make this tough decision. We wanted the show to go on and I knew working with Robert on the laws of human nature launch that he would literally do anything for his fans, but sometimes discipline moderation is taking care of yourself. And being safe rather than sorry. And anyways, it's going to be an awesome show. People in San Francisco got this super cool. This is go got this super cool unscheduled treat with me and guy and it was amazing to me.

All of you. And we're really excited to do this in Seattle and Los Angeles. Again, you can grab tickets at RyanHoliday.net slash tour. And I hope to see all of you in person very soon. It's funny, I talked to lots of people and a good chunk of those people haven't been readers for a long time. They've just gotten back into it. And I always love hearing that and they tell me how they fall in love with reading, they're

reading more than ever, and I go, let me guess, you listen audio books, don't you? And it's true, and almost invariably, they listen to them on Audible. That's because Audible offers an incredible selection of audio books across every genre from bestsellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs and of course ancient philosophy all my books are available on audio read by me for the most part Audible lets you enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app You'll always find the best of what you love or something new to discover and as an audible member You get to choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog including the latest bestsellers and new releases

You'll discover thousands of titles from popular favorites, exclusive new series, exciting new voices in audio. You can check out Stillness is the key, the daily dad. I just recorded so that's up on Audible now. Coming up on the 10-year anniversary of the obstacle is the way audio books. So all those are available. And new members can try Audible for free for 30 days, visit audible.com slash daily stoke, or text daily stoke to 500-500, that's audible.com slash daily stoke, or text daily stoke to 500-500.

Why don't we take some questions and while we line up, I think there's gonna be a microphone, there should be a microphone in the center aisle, or... And others, okay, and you can start to line up behind that mic if you have a question for Ryan. While we're waiting, I want to ask you about Marcus Relius.

Okay. So Marcus Relius, what would he make of, first of all, my sense from your descriptions of him is that he probably would have valued courtesy and kindness, I think, even though he was a, you know, he was a Roman leader and he was probably brutal and vicious. But I think maybe, interpersonally, he would have valued those qualities and characteristics. We're living at a time where, you know, things like kindness and courteousness are seen as like indulgences and unnecessary. And I have to admit, I'm distressed by that because I think that I want to live in a world

where people are courteous and kind. And I wonder what he would... I think that's so powerful because just like Robert's books, the purpose of stoicism is not to make you a better sociopath, right? It's not. It's supposed to make you a better person, right? Courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom, right?

Justice is not like this extra one that's thrown in there. It's like, you know, it's, love thy neighbor, like, love thy neighbor as they say. It's a core tenant of the, you can't just toss it out because it's hard or you don't like it. There's this beautiful line in the beginning of meditation. So, meditations, we don't know how it was organized when he wrote it. Maybe it's exactly as we got it, or maybe someone put it all in an order that they liked. But the first book in Meditations,

almost 10% of the book is called Dez and Lessons. And it's all the things that Marcus learned from people in his life. And it's really remarkable the thing that again, he wasn't publishing it. So the Dez and Lessons, this is a personal balance sheet that he's keeping. And it's so beautiful what he says

that he learned from all these people and how a few if he is in they're praise in his praise for them even though he would they didn't know he was writing this but he he learns from just the sex to stuff loss for and he says one of the things he learned he says the key is to be free of passion. So free of strong emotions, it says, but full of love. And that's not the image that we have of the Stoics. We have the Stoics as being free of passion, where we forget this extra part, which is full of love. And then towards the end of meditations,

he talks about being strict with yourself, but tolerant of others. And so I think we get these snapshots or these slices of Marcus as a remarkably patient person, a loving person, person who cared about common good and humanity as a whole. And sure, yes, Rome was a violent barbaric. Like they were, they called the strangers, the barbarians, but they were barbaric in every sense of the word. And Marcus would have participated in this

and more or less given the green light. But we do get the sense that, as you said, when he had a choice, when it was him and another person, he tried to be kind and cared about them and thought about, they still say like, you know, don't, you can't take offense, right? Like try to not get offended by other people,

but I don't think they would, I don't think Marcus was going around saying politically incorrect things, not giving a shit about how other people thought. I don't think that's Marcus. So yeah, I, he was not a troll. Yes, exactly.

Yeah, exactly. All right, we've got a long line. Oh, wow. So I'm going to try to be disciplined and ask folks to keep it as, you know, concise as possible. No two partners. No two partners. So thank you, please.

So thank you so much for joining us tonight in San Francisco, a huge fan Ryan and same with you guys. So my question for you Ryan is I know you know the 48 law laws of power inside and out backwards. What would you say The law is that resonates with you the most today 2023 The final law is assume formlessness Which is basically throw out all the other laws, which I think is the genius part of that book, which is, you know, 40 laws of power isn't

do this, then do this, then do this, then do this. Some people will say to Robert, well, you know, law, this, and this one contradicts each other. And they only contradict each other if you don't read all the way to the end and get to the last part, right? Philosophy and life is about paradoxes. Sometimes you do this, sometimes you do the opposite of this.

And they're both true and they're both the right things to do. And so to me, I think the idea of formlessness, the the enemy of the antithesis of wisdom and power and Success and discipline is Regidity, right? This is the way it should be this is who I am. This is how I am Formelessness being I think the apotheosis of that book and ultimately what you're supposed to take from it is the ability to be flexible and adapt and adjust ultimately what you're supposed to take from it is the ability to be flexible and adapt and adjust.

Apply this law this time, the opposite of that law at other times. And that's why also people miss this. Every law has something at the end and it is the reversal of the law. Yeah, it reminds me of Bruce Lee's famous line, Be Like Water. Yes, yes. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hey you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Hey Ryan. Hi How do you view relational situations where one partner is actively practicing soicism and the other isn't I mean for example. I'm here by myself That says it all. No, I get it. Look, I think one of the things that happens whenever one finds something that works or that fascinates them or is you're like, you want to get other people to do it and you want to get that. And it's wonderful to share.

You know, it's so says it was not like an evangelical religion. They're not going to hell if they don't get it. Thank you. But I just tend to just try to focus in any therapist, couples counselor will tell you this is like, your partner's your partner, they do what they're gonna do.

If you want them to change, start with yourself. And so I just try to focus on that and I try to remember that. It's probably my fault anyway. It's, I'm probably contributing to the thing, plenty, and so I'm gonna focus on that. Are there, yeah, sometimes there's gonna be unreconcilable differences.

There's gonna be totally different world views and those world views just cannot be in the same house, but I think for the most part, we try to focus on ourselves. And there is some beautiful history between, say, like Marcus Reales and his brother, his adopted step brother, Lucius Ferris, who's the opposite, but what Marcus Realis and his brother, his adopted stepbrother, Lucius Ferris, who's the opposite, but what Marcus says in Detson Lessons, he goes,

you know, what I loved about my brother, who from what we know was like, sort of, not the best. He goes, I loved how his character helped me improve my own. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you. Hi, Ryan. Okay. Awesome. Yep. Thank you.

Hi, Ryan. Oh, little short here. I, as a person who's found a lot of healing and recovery in the 12-step rooms, I was very surprised to see you write about it in both Stillness as the key and discipline as Destiny. So I'm curious as to like how that came about or why you were inspired to do that. Because the only other one I found was Russell Brands recovery. So yeah.

I would say I'm like recovery adjacent. I certainly, I relate to all the impulses and the problems. I've just thankfully never ended up that far, right? And I would actually credit Stoicism with that, sort of discovering it early. Like, there's not a thing that I cannot get addicted to. And sort of being very aware of that, I sort of have been very interested in how those groups function,

what they teach, how they work, very interested in how those groups function, what they teach, how they work, what are the sort of general lessons that apply to all of us? And I mean, the serenity prayer is about as good of encapsulation as you can get to stoicism as there is. And when I think so fast in it, when do you think the serenity prayer was created? Put a year on it. There's a different version of it.

That like, it had to even harder. It's a like, higher fire grant me this running to accept the people I cannot change. The courage to change the one I can and the wisdom to know that one is me. Like when I heard that when I was like, oh, that's stoicism. Totally.

It feels like this thing that's always been with us and it was jotted off in the 1950s. And you just go, wow, OK, there's always new ways to repackage and define these very old timeless ideas. And so yeah, that's where that comes from for me. Well, thank you. Thank you. I'm very sorry for that. I'm very sorry for that to be out for me. Well, thank you. Thank you. There you go.

I'm very sorry for that to be out there too. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Hi, Ryan. Hi. Hi. Hi.

I actually brought your book to you. So if you sign later. All right. My question kind of go back to the question guy asked you earlier about if you had a bad day, what are the tools that you gravitate towards to solve that? Because myself, I pretty much it is what is, mind over matter to have a person, but then bad days do affect you a lot. At the end of the week, you get exhausted.

So how do you go back and reset yourself? Well, I'd love to hear your answer. So how do you go back and reset yourself? I'd love to hear your answer. I have never had a bad day that was made worse by exercising. So whenever I'm like having this shitty day, it's going sideways, I'm struggling with something. I go for run, I go for swim, I run my bike, or the fairly so I just go for walk. It doesn't magically solve the problem,

but it changes who I am in relation to that problem. It turns down the volume on that thing. So, usually like when I'm having a bad day, or I'm struggling with something, it's because things are not going right, or I'm not doing things right. And so, I find that it's hard for me to screw up working out, right, pushing myself. I leave my house to go for a run, I come back. I say I'm going to go to

gym for an hour, like I'm there. And so I found that that is, in meditation, you have a mantra, a female return to that kind of brings you back to center. That's always been that for me, is I want to do that. And so I schedule it on the day, where I intend to do it every day, but sometimes I'm like, okay, we're moving this up. This needs to happen now. And again, it doesn't magically erase everything, but

it does tend to make, it brings me to a better place to then deal with that thing. And then, as you said, let's say a crappy day is a crappy week, but then I look back on the week and I go, oh, you know, I worked out every day this week. I go, wow, it wasn't terrible. It wasn't a complete waste. I didn't completely fall apart. I did some good thing every day. I had something to show for showing up every day. Yeah, there is such a clear connection between physical activity and its impact, obviously, on our mental health. And it's not always easy. In bad days, happen even when we do that. But that has an enormous impact.

There's a, you may be familiar with David Stindel-Rass who is a priest. Father David Stindel-Rass, he gave a beauty's written book and he gave a beautiful TED Talk many years ago and he said, every single day is a new beginning. And I love that concept. And of course, we can't always think that way, but it's a really sort of grounding notion idea

that we're sort of gifted another chance every 24 hours. And I love that idea. It doesn't obviously solve everything, but sometimes it has like a micro mitigation effect on those really rough days Thank you. Yeah Hey, I'm big fan Ryan So my question is earlier you're talking about how your publishers were iffy about your idea. Yeah, that's the always is them So how did you overcome that fear

and why did you decide to do it? Yeah, I mean, one of the things I think you can always tell yourself is, well, let's sketch out the worst case scenario here, right? You have this idea for a book and you send it to your publisher and they say no, right? That's the worst case scenario, right? And it's not that bad.

Worst case scenario is I have to publish it myself. The worst case scenario is I try again later, right? It was not, the downside was very low and the upside was high. Now I kind of got a, sometimes you get it clear, yes or a clear no, I got what they sometimes call in publishing like a kiss off advance, which is like, what can we offer you

that's like, maybe they'll say no, right? You know, as I asked my editor many years later, I said, you know, what were you hoping I would say? And they were, they said, we were hoping, maybe you do this book, get it out of your system and then go back to writing marketing books, which thankfully didn't happen. But realizing that there wasn't a sort of, they weren't telling me yes or no. They were just telling me like, we're not super excited about it.

And so I had to create my sort of my own excitement, my own driving. And then I do think it also helps managing expectations is always great, right? So they didn't think it would be huge, I didn't think it would be huge. When it came out, it wasn't huge. I think it sold 3,500 copies its first week, which it wasn't enough to hit a bestseller list. 500 copies its first week, which it wasn't enough to hit a bestseller list. And it wasn't a conclusive failure or success.

And so it just kind of did what it did. And then I went to work on the next thing. So sometimes when we're thinking, oh, it must be really scary to do it, it's more like just indifference that you're really up against, which is not that much of an opponent, like indifference. I mean, welcome to life. Most people are indifferent to most people and things. And so just realizing it wasn't this thing I had to sweat,

it's just the thing I would try. And that's where I took it. All right, thank you. How are you guys doing? First, I want to say that, I think I can speak for almost everyone in this room that your books have changed my life and people in this room. But I wanted to ask you,

I think there's a quote by Marcus Aurelius along the lines of no person crosses the same river twice. What stoic philosophy, what stoic ideas have you came across once and then had a totally different opinion on later? So that's actually from Heraclitus, who Marcus Aurelius quotes a bunch of meditations

and the idea is yeah, not only do we not step in the same river twice because the river is changing, but we're also changing. The idea being that, you know, sure, meditations is 2000 years old, but has remained unchanged for 2000 years. And yet each successive generation takes something new or different from it. And we were talking about this at dinner, like, I, when I took from meditations when I was 19, versus why I took from it yesterday, these are different things. But, you know, understanding meditations as effectively a plague book,

a book written during a plague, is a totally different lens on Marcus and Stoicism and the message of the book that I think would have been impossible for me growing up, where I've grown up and how life has been in America since I've read meditations up until three years ago, exactly, right? When COVID happens and you are forced to,

you are come face to face with things that are happening and behaviors people are doing that would have been intimately familiar to Marcus and we're driving and changing what he was writing about. Suddenly you understand him and yourself in a new way. And so it is important, I think. And this is one of the ideas behind the daily stoke. So you don't just read a thing once,

but you come back to it over and over again and you read it. I think when I look at your book, I think of that, like the beginning entrepreneur reading your book is gonna get something very different than that same entrepreneur reading that same book as a late the the founder owner of a late stage company because they a whole bunch of stuff went over their head because they didn't even know what they didn't know about this they weren't interested in some lesson from a late stage founder because that was incomprehensible from their position. And I think you can apply that same principle to music and to novels and to other pieces of art that were exposed to it different times in our life

and how it impacts us depending on the context, the contextual perspective. You mentioned this idea earlier, I didn't know it. It is remarkable that when Marcus really says writing meditations, the thing that everybody around him is talking about all the time as a plague. For most of that time, that's what's dominating people's brains. He probably dies of it. He probably dies of it. And realizing that, yeah, this was the seminal event

of his life. And so it's a remarkable one that, you know, we miss this, but also that he doesn't talk about it that much because he's focused in security. Yeah, it's very strange. Incredible. Yeah. Great question.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, Roy. I'm Big Fanos. Guy, you love the podcast. So, Roy and my question viewers, they're all great books. Don't get me wrong.

But if you had to go back and rewrite one, which one would it be? And why? I had to rewrite one. I probably rewrite Trust Me I'm Lying just because I wrote that when I was so young. And also I've seen the legacy of that book. Did you leave some good stuff out of that? Or maybe I wouldn't publish it at all. But yeah, I don't know.

It's, I've also had the pleasure slash horror of doing new additions of a book that I wrote when I was 24, which is not an experience I would wish on anyone. Speaking of never stepping in the same river twice, like when you write a book, you work on a thing, that's who you are, and that's what you think to be true. And there's this part of you that doesn't think you are putting this down for all you are you are cementing this in place in time If you could change it If you knew what you would know in the future you would do things differently, but you don't that's the tragedy of the human experience

And so just quickly do you have any update on Robert's new book because I can't ask him It's a it's in the works as always. He's always working on it. You got a sneak peek. I've read pieces of it. It's very, very good. Each, like, some of the sections in Robert's books are almost as long as my entire book. So we're operating a very different universe.

Thanks so much, William. Thanks, Gilles. Cheers. Thank you. APPLAUSE Hey, Ryan. Hi. Sophia, I've met you a couple of places.

So a couple things. When I think about how Robert Green has changed my life and talked about mastery and talked about going back to when you were a young person and what did you want to do? You know, and going back and looking at that. Your life's task. Your life's task, your purpose. Yes. That was life changing for me.

And along with many other things, he says, and when you were speaking earlier, and you were talking about when you first read meditations, and then you went and pitched it in. And but you knew. You said, I knew that this was gonna work. And I think that's what you inspire in me in your storytelling.

It's like, I hear the things you say, and I'm like, I knew that. I knew that. I knew that. So it's very intuitive for me. So, but seeing you here in San Francisco, I grew up here. I work here.

I don't live here anymore. But coming back after the pandemic and seeing what has happened and watching from a distance what took place in our pandemic, I wonder if you would think about picking maybe a man and a woman in this period who killed it. Oh, who's done well? Who's done well and handled it like a stoic, disciplined kindness, you know, courage and temperance all throughout it all,

because I've seen some of them, but I'd be curious to, you don't have to answer right now. Okay. And I, I think about it. All right, I will. That's a great question. Thank you. See you later.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I use my journal, obviously I turn to stochism, but I also turn to my therapist, which I've had for a long time and has helped me through a bunch of stuff. And because I'm so busy and I live out in the country, I do therapy remote, so I don't

have to drive somewhere. And that's where today's sponsor comes in. Toxbase makes it easy to find a therapist that you like. It's convenient, it's affordable. By doing everything online, Toxbase makes getting the help you want easy and affordable, so why wait? And Toxbase can help with any specific challenge you might be facing. That's why it's the number one online therapy platform with license therapist and over 40 specialties.

It's secure and private and in network with most major insurers as a listener of this podcast you can get 80 bucks off your first month with talk space when you go to talkspace.com slash stoic to match with a license therapist today go to Talkspace.com.sashtoic to match with a license therapist today and go to Talkspace.com.sashtoic to get 80 bucks off your first month and show your support for the daily stoic. That's Talkspace.com.sashtoic. Hey Ryan. Hi. You've done a lot of great work. I enjoyed our conversations on several occasions and thank you.

Based off of a lot of what you said, you actually reminded me to speak on another topic, which is quote from Maslow. And he said that our only rival is our own potentialities and our only failure is not living up to our own possibilities. And in this sense, every man can be a king, and therefore should be treated as a king. And I actually was thinking about mentioning an excerpt from Sun Zhu, who speaks about how, when a war-like Prince attacks the power of state, his generals have shown himself by blocking the enemy's forces. And basically, it goes on to say, hence,

he does not strive to ally himself with all in sundry, nor does he foster the power of other states. He carries out his own secret designs and is able to capture their cities and over the others' kingdoms by keeping his antagonists in awe. That sort of falls in line to a lot of what you were saying, which is the original synthesis of my point, which was about how through the philosophy that you've sort of like shown to me through your worldview about how I end up writing about how I focus on only what I control and to not feel any sense of accomplishment and what I'm doing.

And like just as a rationalization and similar like vein with Marcus Rayless was speaking about, I was speaking like saying like, do you praise yourself with the action of eating when the inaudible results that you'll be full and even still you don't control the food in your plate only that will not let's pursue it of it. And the hunt in it of itself is what is there because you don't control the food in your plate. Only the little amount of the pursuit of it. And the hunt in it of itself is what is there. Because you don't fundamentally care about the food. We only eat the food because we need it to survive. Like the food doesn't mean anything.

Once we finish eating, then we're done. Like once we finish drinking, we slick our thirst, we turn it back to the well. It doesn't matter fundamentally. And a bit for Robert as well too, was in there, I also wrote about how, if you're a baker, baking cake, you forge all the materials you get together, then the power goes out.

The good spoil, we own everything in trust, we don't actually control any of that stuff. And if you can't bake the cake, even though you have all the qualifications, still should do it. Does that make you only less of a baker? So that's what I was kind of like. I love it all along.

Thank you. Yeah, I just wanted your comments on that because you weren't able to get some of your books published or the way you wanted them to. How do you sort of think about that? Because I don't really know what to kind of ignore and not ignore, and I just want to get your thoughts on that. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much. What I try to focus on when I work is how can I, how can the success or failure of the project be as most rooted on me as possible? So it comes to how you define what that success is. Is it the number of listeners? Is it the number of downloads?

Is it the number of sales? Is it where it doesn't hit on a list? Or is it that you did something that was interesting to you, pleasurable to do as you were doing it, meaningful to you as you were doing it. Did you do what you set out to accomplish? And then the things that happen after are extra as opposed to something you are waiting and hoping breaks your way. For a great question. So next, thank you. I'm trying to get through everyone. Thank you. Good evening. I'm Charlotte and I'm so

delighted to be here. So thankful for the good energy in the room with you two and for everyone. Since you probably believe in the power of thought before I share my question, would it be possible to send some good energy to Mr. Robert Green? Sure. Okay, let's do it. Do you know if he's Northeast Southwest from us? I do not. Okay, well let's just everyone imagine. You know him, you can imagine him in your mind's eye and let's just think of positive thought

that all of the healing energy is flowing to this brilliant being. Beautiful, thank you. Okay. Yes, what's your question? Well, my question is your thoughts on vegetarianism. So up until 1850, people who were vegetarians were called Pythagorean's. In Plato's Republic, he talks about how eating animals causes more greed, more lust, etc.

And all the great thinkers across time, in my view, from Emerson to Tolstoy to Kafka spoke about being vegetarian. So I'm just curious if you think that vegetarianism and kind relationship to animals may be part of the way forward as we create a more loving humanity. Thank you.

Thank you. I aspire to be a vegetarian. I really do. as we create a more loving humanity. Thank you. Thank you. I aspire to be a vegetarian. I really do. I do eat some meat. So I sympathize and tend to agree with you, actually. Yes. Yes.

The Stoics have this idea of care first about yourself and care about the people around you and people who are like you You have these circles of concern and the idea is about bringing the outer concerns Inward and I interviewed Peter Singer recently and we talked about this the idea I think ultimately is to include as many beings not just Animals but plants and and the environment itself. How do you sort of have this positive impact on as many different people and things as possible? So, like you, I don't fully aspire to be a vegetarian, but I understand that I see as part of the diet.

I'm not an expert, so I'm not going to opine about what one should be eating or not eating, but I live on a cattle ranch, so I'm probably not the right person to answer this one, but thank you very much. Thank you. We have, we don't, we have to end this in a few minutes, because the theater, of course, the folks who work here need to go home. So we're not going to be able to get to everyone there. I'm sorry.

We'll probably only be able to take three more questions. And I'm sorry about that. All right. So. Yes. That's right. Hey, Ryan. Hi.

I'll keep it brief. OK. What's one piece of advice you know now that you wish you could tell your younger self when you started off your writing career. Great question. Yes It's gonna take longer than you think It's gonna take longer than you think there's a great law. It's like it always takes longer than you expect even when you take this line to account It's gonna take longer than you think the obstacles away came out and I think it took six years to hit a best sound

list, something like that. If you told me that when I put it out, I'm not sure I could have, I'm not sure I would have accepted that or how that would have landed with me, but it takes longer, it takes longer to get good at it, it takes longer for people to discover the stuff. It just, it takes way longer than whatever time frame you're capable of at that time. Um, and, uh, yeah, that's what that's what I'd say. How old are you, by the way, if you're my 21? 21.

I'm gonna give you, I'm 48. I'm gonna give you the piece of advice I would have given myself when I was 21, which is a version of dance like no one's watching, which is don't limit yourself, try things, put yourself out there, be open to new experiences, and don't never be too cool to do something, because that's going to... That's a great answer. That's great. Thank you.

Thank you. First of all, I love the shirt. Thank you. So, my question is, do you think the practice of stoicism is more a matter of the mind or of the heart? Insofar as like, what would you say to a student of stoicism when they encounter more emotionally charged matters? Like heartbreak, loss of a friend, that kind of thing? Yeah, I think the most beautiful writing that Senuka did, he wrote these four essays that are called his consolations. And they're him consoling people who have lost someone.

In one case, it's his mother who've lost him. He's been exiled. And so I think this idea of the Stoics is having no emotions, being emotionless, having no heart, it totally misses it. It's about not being overwhelmed and ruled by or destroyed by those emotions, but it's certainly not stuffing them down and pretending they don't exist.

So sometimes it's about using the mind to work through and get, understand, well, here's why you're feeling this way, this way it's not rationalism. A good way to feel. And then I think, in other times, you've got it all perfectly worked out in your head, and the heart needs to come and overwhelm that and be like, it's more complicated. There are people involved. So I think it's like we're talking about with formlessness. It's sometimes it's one, sometimes it's the other.

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. So whatever I have learned about Ryan is like about 19-year-old cool kid came across this stoicism and just made it his life on it. I don't think anyone would have said cool kid about it. So how was Ryan before he turned 819 and how it influenced all his journey from that point and what really happened at that point in life

that just turned everything around. Well, I wish Robert was here because he could give you, he knew me then, so he could give me, he could give you an answer. I was reading, so I got Marcus Rillis when I was in college, so I was reading it in my college apartment and I guess that again, that I'm reading some obscure school

of ancient philosophy by myself in my college apartment, goes to the not cool kid idea for sure. I don't know. I think what struck me about the Stoics was what I was really looking for, which I think a lot of young men and women are looking for today. But I've always looked at, looked for throughout history, which is like, how am I supposed to be? What should I do?

What should I not do? I was looking for what I think ancient philosophy is at its best, which is a guide to the good life. And that's what I have tried to articulate and explain in my books is to take that guide and make it as accessible and interesting and practical as I can for people. I would add that knowing about a little bit of your life, that you were a reader, you grew up as a reader and a family of readers and reading also exposed you to infinite number of ideas. And that gave you this opportunity to be exposed to this book that you may not otherwise have been exposed to.

Totally. That was the question I like to ask. What should I read? What should I read? What should I read? And you know, I asked the question enough times that I found the book I should be reading. And that's a discipline of practice that people can choose. For sure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Applause.

OK, two more. We got to just do two more, guys. Hi, Ryan. Hi, guys. So I have a quote by Confucius. It's one of my favorites. It goes to keep the old warm and to provide understanding of the new is to call yourself a teacher.

And you and Robert and Guy, that reminds me that every time I read it, and you've inspired me to be a teacher, and I wanna do the same, keep that chain going, throughout history, you know, we just hand it down to the next generation. What's your one tip to be an effective teacher, and to keep the old warm,

as when I'm a teacher, I'm a little bit talking down to two people, so. I think what I'll give you what I learned from Robert, which is that you show you don't tell. So the reason Robert writes in stories is the same reason that Jesus spoke in parables, same reason Lincoln told stories, which is that it is the most disarming and effective and interesting way to deliver information to people. I think you do this in the podcast. You get people to tell their stories.

You don't have, here's the 16 tips, you go listen to the story and then people take things out of it. I think listening to stories and telling stories is the oldest and most effective way to deliver information and for some reason it remains the least utilized and that's what I try to do in my books and that's what I think all the things I like all have in common, so they're great stories.

I think the best teachers never cease to be students. It sounds like a complete truth, but it's true. I teach younger people about the craft of what I do, but I'm also learning from them all the time and learning from other sources, trying to get better at what I do, because that makes me better as a transmitter of information. So that would be my advice. Never cease to be a student. Thank you all. Put those both at action. Thank you. All right. Last one, guys, I'm sorry. One more. One more.

Yes, one more, yes. So considering first-round, obstacles of the way changed my life, thank you. Considered trust for me online in the media landscape, like how, what can we do? Like it's like it's just driving driving me nuts. We're believing lies. I have to population is. Yeah, I would say everything I was talking about in that book is worse in most ways. But what I think, the couple of things

that I think are interesting or encouraging to me, I think we live now in a subscription economy, where people actually subscribe to things, which is one of the main things I was talking about in the book, this sort of disintermediation of media is what created the sort of endless war for attention and clickbait and all that. And then I think, you know, podcasting as a medium,

which was really not much of a thing in 2011 when I was writing the book, you know, when you sit down, you listen to someone's story for two hours, two and a half hours, or you record for two and a half hours and edit it down to an app like a long form conversational explorate, like there's something I think very powerful about podcasts

that are the opposite of most of the negative trends of today's media, which is shortness, virality, simplicity, not, you know, dehumanizing people, I think podcasts tilt us somewhat back in the right direction, and I think that's a positive thing. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you. Before we go, one last question I have. It's just Andrew Sand, he's 14th of permission. Oh, great. All right, all right.

All right. We got it. Oh, John. Hi. And I'll make this quick, guys, where in our increasingly weakening and over-emotional societies, what are the best stoic practices to avoid getting sucked into like Twitter Wars and other like things that are constantly vying for our attention through, you know,

news is just one big, especially our government uses fear and other emotions to control populations. And what are the best practices to avoid getting sucked into? Are you sure you're 14? Yes. I swear. No, it's a great question. I think first off, just being aware that this thing is not your friend necessarily, that we are, I think, having kind of an adversarial relationship with the overwhelming amount of information

that's out there that you don't have to consume at all. I just try to go towards sources of information that are perennial. So I think books, you know, I think you can learn lots of new things from very old books, right? And chances are if they've been relevant or true for a thousand years, you know, there's chances it's going to be relevant for at least a few more. And so I think deciding where you're going to get the bulk of your information or what's the primary lens by which you're going to come to understand the world and choosing to

do that through more perennial sources as opposed to the latest breaking real-time is just a you know a choice you have to make as an individual and that's the that's the choice that I make. Great question. Thank you. Thank you. Brian before we go one last question for you which is what is something that everybody in this crowd, everybody listening, could do one simple thing they could do today or tomorrow to make their life just a little bit better? Going to what we were just talking about with media and information, I would say a real

easy one, don't sleep with your phone in your bedroom. Leave it in the kitchen in the other room, whatever. Don't charge it next to your bed. Don't let it be the last thing that you touch or look at before you go to sleep. And by definition, it won't be the first thing that you touch when you wake up. And so creating some very hard, not artificial boundaries

between you and the kinds of craziness and chaos and and all of that is is one of the best decisions that I've ever made. I'm going to add one thing to that. Okay. The first thing you should do every morning is drink a big glass of water. I promise you it's's gonna have a massive impact in your day. All right, with that, I wanted to thank all of you for coming out tonight. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you for saving us.

It's been so fun. Right in the hall, everybody. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Daily Stoke Podcast. Just a reminder, we've got signed copies of all my books in the Daily Stoke Store. You can get them personalized. You can get them sent to a friend. The app goes away. You go as the enemy.

Still, this is the key. The leatherbound edition of the Daily Stoke. We have them all in the Daily Stoke Store, which you can check out at store.dailystoke.com. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to the Daily Stoic Early and Add Free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and add free with Wondery Plus in Apple podcasts. Raising kids can be one of the greatest rewards of a parent's life. But come on, someday's parenting is unbearable. I love my kid, but is a new parenting podcast from Wondry that shares a refreshingly honest

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