The Daily Stoic - The David Cross Episode

Episode Date: August 15, 2026

Ryan sits down with comedian and actor David Cross for a conversation that goes just about everywhere. They talk about Stoicism, comedy, politics, free speech, parenting, privilege, entitlement, and more.David Cross is a comedian, actor, writer, and producer best known for co-creating and starring in HBO’s Mr. Show, playing Tobias Fünke on Arrested Development, and his decades-long stand-up career.David’s latest comedy special, The End of the Beginning of The End, is available to watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfqMkJwVgmoHe also recently teamed up with longtime friend Bob Odenkirk for Bob and David Climb Machu Picchu, a documentary about their 2024 trip on the Inca Trail. David won a Primetime Emmy for his writing on The Ben Stiller Show and has received multiple Emmy and Grammy nominations for his television and comedy work.Follow David | @DavidCrossOfficial🎟️ DAILY STOIC LIVE | Ryan Holiday is coming to a city near you! Grab tickets here |  https://www.dailystoiclive.com/🎥 VIDEO EPISODES| Watch the video episodes on The Daily Stoic YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos✉️ FREE STOIC WISDOM | Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail--Stop online threats before they become real-world attacks. Visit ironwall.com/DAILYSTOIC and request a free Risk Assessment to see exactly how exposed your executives are.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, designed to help bring those four key stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world. Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the D. daily stoic podcast. I guess people think of stoicism as being very serious about self-command, about containing emotion. So where does that leave humor? I actually think the stoics are hilarious. There's a bunch of jokes all throughout the stoics, especially in Marxian's writing. I mean, there's even a stoic who dies of laughter. The joke, sort of one of those you had to be there.

It's funny to hear that Chrysippus died of laughter, so I guess that's funny, too. But my point is humor and stoicism, they're certainly not mutually exclusive. And in fact, I think some of the best stoic observations are funny. In any case, a stoic is not going to go around getting offended, insisting that other people take things very seriously because, you know, that's focusing on something that's not in your control. And I think humor is a sign of wisdom as well. I have a chapter about this in the wisdom book. I've been trying to get my kids into comedy, I've been listening to stuff.

So this is, you know, a little bit more appropriate to them. We're listening to Jim Gaffigan and Nate Braggotsey, little Mitch Headberg here and there. I have not let them listen to today's guest just yet, although they've seen some clips of him from Arrested Development. David Cross is one of the funniest people in the world. He's a comedian. He's an actor.

He's a writer. Best known for co-creating and starring in Mr. Show with Bob and David. He was to buy. on Arrested Development, and it had a very long career in stand-up political satire, absurdity, ridiculousness, social criticism, and then just, you know, just straight up funny. And in today's episode, David and I get into a little bit of all that. We talk about comedy, we talk about free speech, talk about political correctness, talk about parenting, and more.

And I think I really like this. I loved his new special at the end of the beginning of the end. You can watch it on the 800-pound gorilla media YouTube channel. He just did this new documentary with Bob Odenkirk, his longtime collaborator and friend. Bob and David climb Machu Picchu, where they climbed the Inca Trail in 2024. He has a whole bit about that also in the special. It's funny. I thought that was one of my favorite parts.

David won an Emmy when he was writing on the Ben Stiller show. His work is great. You're going to like it. This is funny. Stoicism doesn't have to be super serious, and we will just get into it. You can follow him on all platforms at David Cross official, and do check out his new special. You can watch it for free, as I said, it's great. And let's get into it.

There's someone else we both know, Maria Semple. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She just wrote a book about Stoicism. Really? Yeah, her new novel, which is going to be huge because it's Oprah's book club pick. I loved the first one. I really.

Bernadette? Yeah, I loved it. So this one is, the main character is a Stoic philosopher. And she's a tutor to these two rich kids in New York City. Okay. But she was just here a couple weeks ago. Yeah, I just saw her. I was in a play and she and somebody else I know came to the play.

Yeah, just saw her. But I hadn't seen her in quite a while, at least 10 years. Yeah, she, you would have known her, I guess, from Arrested Development? Yeah, and I think prior to that, because I knew her at, ex-husband or partner from the Simpsons group. I knew a bunch of people who went over to The Simpsons and wrote kind of around the Mr. show, after Mr. Show. So just, you know, the same community.

Yeah, yeah. Anyways, I'll give you a copy. It's really good. But it's, there's not a lot of good novels about Stowe philosophy, so that's interesting. Okay. How did you come to find any of this stuff? Stoicism? Yeah.

I didn't. I mean, I, it's not a, it's not something I practice or anything. I know I have a loose idea of what it is. I know it's, you know, something I learned in high school at some point, never really put into practice or anything like that. But it's basically, I could be. No, I want to hear it. This is fascinating. It's basically, we have no control over external situations.

Yes. how we respond to those things is in the way we respond by not being I'm thinking of these like corny bumper sticker things like not letting not letting it get you down right that seems simplistic but not how you respond and react to those things that you don't have control over And understanding that and not letting that get you off track too far. Sure. Is that something? No, no.

I think it's very close. And also not letting it make you a bad person or, you know, like, is that just like, how do you not get rattled by stuff? But how do you sort of stay on whatever the path that you're supposed to be on is? Right. Right. Like how do you? Because obviously there's the little things, like how do you respond to a heckler or whatever?

And then there's also how do you respond to. some kind of personal disaster or betray or like a financial change yeah or just the shitty events of they're happening in the world how do you not let it change you or make you despair or make you bitter or make you not radicalize you know like how do you how do you sort of stay on the path that's what it's kind of all about okay all right I believe that's it I believe you Well, it's funny, though, because I was watching your special, and you have the whole thing about, is it possible to be a good slave owner? Mm-hmm. And there's this opening.

So, Marksurelius' Meditations is like the famous text in soap philosophy. Say it again? Marcus Aurelius' meditations, the primary text in Soap philosophy. Okay. At the beginning of it, this is the emperor of Rome, and he's sort of, like, reflecting on his life, you know, what he learned, what went well, what he's proud of. And one of the things he congratulates himself on is that he never laid a hand on any of his slaves. Like, so he's actually doing exactly what you're talking about in the bit. And because, you know, all these things are relative, right?

Like he's looking around not going. It's like the Chris Rock bit about, you know, I hang out with my kids. Yes. Like, yeah, that's what you're supposed to do. Don't congratulate yourself for. But you do, you look around and you go, well, everyone owns slaves. So the idea of conceiving of a world where that doesn't happen is a huge leap for most people. Right.

So he's just saying, well, I'm not as bad as these people that are beating them or raping them or murdering them. And it just struck me as a very, that even like the wisest people are falling prey to exactly what your bit was about. Yeah. And there is, there is a certain logic to it. Yes. And I know I'm also kind of having fun with the idea that I know that. people are going to, it's going to take a second for the logic to work its way through. It sounds, what you're hearing is slave owner. Yes. And the idea that, well, I would have been a good slave owner,

you know, the fact that you own slaves is a bad thing. Yes. But if you own slaves, there's a way to be a good slave owner. Yeah. Yeah. And just messing with that, you know, illogic logic present. But I do imagine most people when they think about the past, their first assumptions, well, I just wouldn't have participated. I wouldn't be, I would have been with the good guys.

Of course. And the majority of the people were not with the good guys or it wouldn't have been a majority issue. You know, like, we first, we just conceive ourselves as being exempt as opposed to just participating and behaving more or less like everyone else. Right.

And, you know, it also, depends on what era you're going back to. Sure. You know, and for a long time, I mean, until in historic terms, extremely recently, there, it was just a given. That's, I mean, there's a caste system in India, you know, and it's not out and out slavery, but it is understood. This is cultural, you know, this is, you have this skin and you're from that family, so you do this. And, you know, that's the idea of people, you know, collectively saying this is wrong is relatively recent, you know. And it, you know, we were the last kind of industrialized nation to stop slavery.

Yeah, we had to fight a huge war about it. Yeah. Like a lot of people are like, I would literally rather die than live in a world where I don't get to own other people. Yeah. It's nuts. But I think the funny part of the bit is, like, Like on the one level, we were like, yeah, what kind of slave owner would I be? What would I have been?

But obviously the... I have to say for anybody listening, taken out of context, there's a contextual thing. It's like we keep talking about, oh, this bit that I do about being a good slave owner. And yeah, it's kind of a thing in the bit. But it really is just less than a minute long and it's contextually a part of a bigger thing. No, no, I wanted to get to the bigger thing because I thought it was a fascinating bit because, you know, Because to me the subtext is like, that's obviously the extreme example. You're like, I'm a good person in a bad system.

But like, aren't we all good people in bad systems or so we think we are? Like, you could apply that to any issue at basically any time where you're like, I'm not as bad as the rest of those people. I mean, sure. In theory, I just think with the luxury and ability to, to, look back at things in our current situation and people who say, I never would have been a Nazi soldier. Like, well, that's not true.

I mean, maybe you personally, but you can't just say there are people that, I mean, you know, that book, Hitler's willing executioners, you know, so it's about your neighbors. Yeah. And we see what's happening with ICE. I don't think we're, you can draw a, you know, direct line. We're not there yet, and we're not, hopefully we never will be. But you can certainly see it happening here with the same people who would say, oh, I mean, that's where I would draw the line. What are you willing to subject another person to if someone's telling you it's okay to do it?

We think we wouldn't do horrible things. Right. But everyone is capable of doing horrible things. Yeah, those were, what, 70s, the 1970s? So not far removed historically. And yeah, the people, yeah, I mean, I'm basically, you know, supported. that idea. Like those experiments told us that the same people would be like, I would never do that. Yeah.

Willingly did it. Yeah. Or you're like, look, I know, everyone vaguely knows what happens in factory farms and wouldn't be okay with it. Like, you wouldn't run if you were a farmer. That's not how you would do business or so you tell yourself. And then you're like, but I am hungry and there's a McDonald's right there. Right. And so we we have the idea. And then historically it's very clean. And then the just the sort of realities of day-to-day life, we make a lot of excuses and rationalizations. Right. To me, that's what I took from the thing is that like you like you like to think that you're different, but you're not that different. Yeah. I don't think that was like a conscious thought that I had. And that actually that bit for a while I was trying it because it just occurred to me. I don't know why or how it did, but it did.

And I didn't have a context for it until. I attached it to the Machi Pichita Inca Trail thing. Yes. And I had done it like three or four times when I was, you know, working out new material. And it did not land the way I wanted it to land. And people weren't comfortable with it. And I couldn't really defend it because it wasn't that funny. It was an interesting idea.

And then I later found the – and I probably dropped it for a while. And then I found the context to put it in there to make it kind of a – flow as one linear idea, and then it worked great. Well, and the reason I was relating it to sort of the current day and how we sort of are able to rationalize things differently is you're talking about the sort of inked trail, and then you make a reference to like a World Cup stadiums. Like, we know at some level this is how these things occur in other country. And then people are like, but I do want to go see, like before I die, I want to go see

a World Cup match. Right. Or they're walking around the stadium. They're like, this is nice. And it's right beneath the surface. I feel like it's not exactly the same thing, but comparable to recycling. So I recycle pretty much everything. I don't think it has any real effect at all.

I mean, when you look at what the Defense Department does, I mean, what is my washing my tuna can out and then putting in... It's like one airline flight is like 500,000 cans or something. It's like it's... And what am I doing? What the... What the... And I tell myself, because it's true, well, at least I'm not contributing to...

But even just consuming something that comes in that packaging. I mean, it's a thing that... sort of makes you feel better, even though it actually makes me feel worse because it just points up the absurdity of the situation we're in. And, you know, but look, if everybody had that philosophy, then we'd be okay with everybody recycle, but everybody doesn't. Driving from the airport in Lima, Peru, to kind of the city center, and Lima's huge. I mean, you have seven miles of just garbage. I mean, just before it gets nicer.

Yeah. And I'm like, what am I doing? Rinsing out my tuna fish can. It doesn't matter. But it does. And you're sucking on a paper straw. Yeah. And you're like, yes, exactly.

Paper straw. Okay. Sure, I'll do it. There's a similarity there, I guess. Although, like, being the kind of person that's like, fuck this, I'm not doing any of it. I don't think that's good for you as a person either. No. Like the, absolutely.

the people who find joy and gleefulness and that I'm sure he had it in Texas rolling coal rolling rolling coal yes where you put the exhaust thing on your car it's a southern it's like they did it in the south a bunch where they and they're that makes them happy and they're all you know and they're like fuck you uh you know hippies or whatever the I'm gonna pollute even more so and that was like a reaction to what they perceived as, you know, don't tell me I can't have a plastic straw. Yeah. Like the political correctness thing is kind of that too, where it's like, okay, look, it can be obnoxious to like police people and have to be overly sensitive and whatever, right? There's obviously some level, which that's onerous and obnoxious.

The same time, being a dick on purpose is not good for the world. It's also not good for you to be the kind of person that's like, fuck your feelings. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's a bad contribution. to humanity. Yes. But I also don't think it's good to be that.

Like, it makes the world worse. But it's good to have like boundaries and rules where you're like, hey, I don't do that because I like I care about other people. Yeah. I would imagine mental health wise. But who knows? I mean, a there, I would imagine those or a bunch of those people get a sense of well-being and a satisfaction from sticking it to the, and you know, just an umbrella group.

and archetype. Like, nobody's going to tell me what to do. And then you feel good about it. Maybe so maybe it is good for them because they're, they sleep better and they're healthier and they don't, you know, they don't have as many stomach issues. Gastro, you know, IBS, whatever. You know, they're like, yeah, I fucking rolled some coal. I showed them and that I did my part.

Yeah, there's something weird about this. Like, I'm going to stick it to the man. But it's like, in this case, the man is people who are mentally handicapped. You know, like, who are you sticking it to by? by using the R word or whatever. Like the weirdness of like pushing back, but like you're pushing them back against a person who has nothing. They're not the man.

Well, what about rich retarded people? What do you do in that situation? Sure. A conundrum. Yeah, the idea of punching down is sad and gross to me. You know, the idea of finding joy and making fun of and making other people laugh. with you at this, you know, marginalized group is just sad. Yes.

But again, to be empathetic to those people is they, they don't always see. They're not like waking up and they're like, hey, how can I pick on these other people? No, I think it's a, as you were saying, it's like a reaction to don't tell me what I can and can't say and freedom of speech. And even if that freedom of speech is an offensive derogatory word or phrase, or something. Yeah. Yeah. And usually it comes from some kind of insecurity literally or figuratively where you're

as uncomfortable so you're like, how can I lash out? Like my kids want to. You know what? I want to stop and interrupt. And I don't know. That to me sounds, it sounds kind of smug and condescending in a way that would make that person go, see, see what they think. And I think it's helpful to be careful about not kind of doing what they're doing sometimes, which is just a broad brush of, oh, some, you know, liberal, progressive, know it all.

You know, because I get that a lot. I get that accusation. And I think sometimes it's warranted. I hear myself. And I'm serious. Sometimes I hear myself and I'm like, oh, shut the fuck up. Yes. You just sound like a dick.

You sound like everyone, you're making it worse. I'm talking to myself now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that is a, if we want to truly affect, which, and I agree with all of your positions and philosophy on this, we have to be careful about not engaging the same kind of thing. Yeah, Mark Merrin's thing about annoying people. into fascism is very real. But what I mean is that most people do not think, most people when they're punching down probably aren't saying to themselves,

I am punching down. In their mind, they are thinking, yes. This person is a worthy target or I'm actually attacking this bigger interest that's behind that. Like, I don't think people think they're punching down. I think it's the latter. I think it's the idea that I've experienced. And I'm in stand-up comedy.

So I experience it a lot where there's, and I've been on both sides where it's like, you know, don't tell me what word I can and can't use. But I think they, most of these folks, it's about, oh, this makes you uncomfortable, then I'm going to say it. Yeah. And there's not a whole lot past that. It's a lot of like, don't tell me what I can and can't say and freedom of speech. And I agree. I don't think they see it as punching down. And I don't think they care on a surface level of if it's hurting an individual person. It's more important to them to, oh, it bothers you.

You're going to tell me what I can and can't say? No, you're not. Yeah. And, you know. I agree. It can come off as condescending. I'm just saying I feel like as you get older and you experience more, you become less. You're able to question that impulse a little bit more and go, hey, like, I get

why I'm having this reaction to it, but I'm going to decide whether it's worth the cost over here. Yeah. And again, the context is everything, like the slavery thing. Like, here's the logic. That's why I'm saying this and it's in the context. I can defend that. But there's sometimes you can't. And if I found that I couldn't and I knew it was upsetting more than a couple people,

like, it's not worth it. I'll drop it. Yeah. And it'd probably be different if someone was saying, like, hey, if you say this, you'll go to jail. or, you know, like where there would be actually some principle at stake, even if you didn't care that much about it, you're able to just go, hey, as a human being interacting in society, here's how I'm going to decide to be considered or not. Like, one of the things the Stoics talk about is like how, like, look, if you're, if you take offense to something, like, you're at fault,

like somebody said something and then you're choosing to be hurt by it. That's like one of the Stoic views, which I think at some level is true, right? No, like, no one can, make you feel inferior without your consent? Like, you decided to give weight and meaning to those words. I agree with that on some level. I also, though, in my life, don't go around trying to hurt people's feelings because I don't give a shit. So, like, there's a tension there. Yeah. I think there are groups of people who it's easier for one group of people to make another group of people feel bad. I think it's, in a sense, easier for. like a wealthy white guy to say, hey, man, don't let him get you down, then a poor black

lesbian, you know, whatever. Because they're fighting multiple fronts. And if that rich white guy is saying something, it's easy for somebody to go, hey, man, don't let him get you down. Or as you're saying the thing, it takes more muscles to frown and smile. Like, that might be literally true from a, like, whoever did that study. But that's not, that's not much solace to someone who just got diagnosed with terminal cancer. Right.

And, and, like, someone else with terminal cancer might be able to say that to the fellow diagnoses. But, like, you as just a regular, you just understand, like, it's not your place to say that. You haven't earned being able to say this to the other person. You're going to sound like a douche. Yeah, of course. Hey, man. I know cancer's bad. We all got the memo, but listen, cheer, cheer up.

Turn that frown upside down. Yeah. Right. Well, like the thing about like dudes walking around telling women to smile. It's like you don't know what this person just went through. Right. Just like stay in your lane is also what we're saying. Although I still have this kind of, it doesn't come up that much anymore.

But my wife, who's pretty active feminist, I think. think our daughter was, I'm going to say, like, two and a half, maybe, maybe two, maybe three, maybe. And we were in the TSA line at the airport. And she's in a stroller. And my daughter wasn't crying right. So this guy who worked, you know, at the airport is like, hey. And whatever he said, it was very cordial. And, you know, what's your name?

and hey, how about a smile? And my wife took that as like, oh, yeah, a guy, a man telling a woman or a girl to smile. I'm like, honey, he was just being nice to a kid. Right. And she, yeah, she was, she was, that was like a source of contention. And I still, to this day, I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with you? He's not, it's not a sexist thing. Right.

Oh, but it is. Oh, it's, you know, the patriarchate. She didn't say that. It's more like an adult baby thing. Yes. Not a gender thing. No. Yes.

It was so there's, you know, there's a point to do all of this, I guess. My kids do that. Like, they just don't, they just don't participate in any, like, you know, adults are like, hey, like they try to shake their hands. You know, like just how old are you kids? A nine and a six-year-old. But they're just like not interested in making, like, you know, making adults feel. good about like engaging with them. They just won't.

They just like, I don't know you. And it's like this sort of polite version of you. You're like, hey, don't do that. And then and then the like, oh, yeah, don't, don't humor and engage with complete strange adults who are telling you to do stuff. It's like this mix of like horror and pride at the same time. Yeah. My daughter's nine does the same thing where, you know, actually when the examples I'm thinking of are like people that I know, you know. Or at least.

have she's seen that I think this person is safe, you know, get enough of information. But that's also shyness and you should be. And it's, I know exactly what you're saying. I know that thing. I'm like all about. I'm like, you do not. I don't want to shake that guy's hand. I don't know who he is. I would, I would like there to be less touching, period, like, among strangers. You don't need to, you don't need to do this. Also, like, I just saw you touch everything in the bathroom. You're actually doing this guy a favor by not shaking his hand. There's a ton of information out there about what you should do to be healthier. People trying to sell you this, people trying to sell you that, people trying to tell you to do this, people trying

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and you get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don't love it. You had a funny, another one that I watched you talking about the other day where you were talking about this with your kids where you're like, you have a rich kid. And how do you both take care of your kids and then also not spoil them rotten? I mean, I don't think I'm, I suppose it's relative what spoiled is. My daughter would certainly have a different idea than what I do. But she is spoiled. And the whole bit is about the real bit is about the. resentment I have for how easy she's got it. And I'm, and I do that annoying thing. I try not to,

but like I can bring it up organically. And it kind of works. So she, she knows and she'll ask me questions. But, yeah, I never had that. And I had to go do this and this. Well, you know, I didn't have a parent at home. We were latchkey kids and blah, blah, blah. And just because she doesn't truly appreciate. But she's also nice. Yeah. But she also has, and we have a nice house. We have a brownstone in Brooklyn. And it's huge.

You know, it's the biggest place I've ever lived in. Yeah. And it's not huge compared to, like, Texas huge. But, you know, it's, I also live in Brooklyn. So it's never going to be that big. But, I mean, most people live in apartments and all of her friends, you know, are, like, live in these, like, apartment buildings or units in a brownstone. And so she's aware of that. And what I'm trying to do is ride the fine line of, I don't want to say guilt,

because that's not the right emotion I want her to have, but just the understanding of what she has, what other people don't have. This is not normal. Yeah, but we also have a fair number of friends who are astoundingly wealthy. Yeah. And they have multiple homes and their friends going back. to before they were crazy wealthy. And, you know, we're a drop in the bucket to what they have, like, a country estate and they have a, you know, a triplex in the city. And they have all these,

you know, and it's crazy. They have a stable, you know. I mean, so it's all relative. And I try to keep that in mind. But, yeah, it's like, I'm stressing about, okay, do I have to sit in, like, a shitty seat on this airplane because they're flying together because I want to build character? and then I'm picking you up from school and the guy behind me is in a Lamborghini. Like, I could probably, you know, like, there is a relative nature too. I do.

She travels a lot, you know, because we do and my families. Yeah, you want to take them with you. And what was it? Fairly recently, like a year and a half ago, I want to say, maybe two years ago, we were flying. It was a longer flight. Maybe he was going to L.A. from New York.

and somehow we got bumped up. And it wasn't like anything. I didn't use points or anything like that. And it was also one of those newer plane. I think it's an American Airlines where they don't have, they don't have business class. It's a newer plane and it's called premium economy. And so it's kind of in between business and comfort plus kind of thing.

It's nicer than what we usually get, the comfort plus extra six inches. And that's it. That's all you're getting. That's all I need. We're fine. It's okay. And it was just her and I.

And we got bumped up somehow and we were in this premium economy thing, which is nice. It's like business, basically. And from that point on. Yeah, that's the new normal. That's like, and she gets it. But I told her it was a very special thing. I don't know why, but, you know. And, but from that point on, like,

can we get the can we no we can't why why because it's expensive and I'm not going to pay for that and this is this seed is fine we're fine honey but the other one they gave us free chat you know whatever and it's big and no honey it's and so maybe it's a good thing because after that we still were back in comfort plus and it's like look see this is fine right this is fine when and probably as a parent it's like you're like I got to build character not make them entirely I don't want them to think life is easy. And it's like, life's hard for everyone. Her life is fucking easy.

I mean, it is. I know it's tough being a kid regardless of your station in life and where you live. It's, you know, even wealthy kids have difficulty navigating social norms and, you know, kids in their school. And there's a mean teacher and all that stuff. But, you know, she's she's doing all right. And what I mean is what ultimately shapes you more as a person, the handful of perks you get or just the fact that shit is always happening and it's never the way that you. Like there's this idea. At least that's what I got from my parents.

It's like, oh, it builds character. And it's like, is that what builds the character? Is where you're sitting on an airplane or what kind of car you're driving? That sounds like an excuse, Ryan. That sounds like an excuse to bump yourself up. No, but I'm just, what builds character? Is it that? Is it like your access or lack of access?

to material things, or is it actually like how they see you going through the world? What kind of person you are? I mean, it's both of them. And it's also a lot of stuff. And it's also how you appreciate the things. If you think it's normal, if you think you're entitled, if you think. And we've seen plenty of examples, certainly in celebrity and whether that's athletics or, you know, actors or singers or. whoever, people who come from like limited means and then they just, they feel entitled.

They haven't had good guidance and they treat people, you know, shitty and they feel entitled and they don't say please and thank you. And they don't stop to reflect on exactly how this all happened. Why they just think, well, of course, I'm talented. Yes. You know, I'm a really good, you know, at this thing and people love me. And so, of course, I should bathe in Evian water, you know, or whatever. And, you know, what I'm trying to do is keep her grounded as much as possible. And, but to answer your question, I think it's all of those things. And it really is about understanding and appreciating that stuff for what it is. I think that the thing that people struggle with is understanding that having money or

luxury things or attention or that like it can be nice but it doesn't say anything about you as a person right like like to have it but not um one become like the normal like the baseline like hey this is this is my this is what i expect when i arrive or this is these are the basic levels of accommodations or whatever that i i feel entitled to but also that like i'm sure it's like this with fame or with power it kind of intermingles with your soul and you go, I am this kind of person who, you know, should be treated this way. I am, I get this because I am special. And if I don't get it, you're depriving me of my specialness.

Right. And so that it's where it sort of merges with you on like a cellular or a soul level as opposed to, hey, I would rather sit on a comfortable seat on an airplane than an uncomfortable one. I'd rather, you know, live in a nice house than a not nice house. But the problem is when you think like what kind of car you drive or how many followers you have or attention you get, as any kind of bearing on your worth as a person. It makes you better than others. Yeah, I get that. Sure.

I think the best thing, I'm saying this now. I don't, I haven't sat down with a pat of paper and really thought it out. But I think one of the best things about growing up poor, not having those luxury things, is that when you. And then you do attain them. But when you are in a position where you have to, I mean, this is just the way things are, you have to sleep on this bench. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, you're tired and there isn't a comfortable bed and we're in the middle of nowhere.

Whatever the thing is, you just do it without, you may go, that sucks. But that's it. And then you go to sleep. You can handle not having it. You can handle. I think when people say, I think when people say like, oh, they've. got a lot of character or this this builds character all it means literally all it means is you don't whine a bitch about certain things yeah you don't whine a bitch because it's cold

or it's hot or this pillow isn't you know the the thread count is it you just don't bitch yes you don't cry about it that's what i think what people mean when they say it builds character you know she's got a lot of character that old lady she's a you know that's what it means they They don't whine when it's 90 degrees. You just get on with it. Yeah, it's funny that we use the word character there because what we actually kind of mean is like resilience or adaptability. Character is like, to me, has like a moral component. Like your ability to sleep on a bench is not like a statement of character because, I mean, there's lots of people who have to sleep on benches for no fault.

I wouldn't say that has anything to do with their character. That's a social injustice that we should we should rectify. Meaning going back to your thing about on the. plane. Yeah. Like, oh, it builds character. Yes. To sit.

That's what people mean. It means you don't whine about having to sit there later on when you've. Yeah. You've been at the airport when you see people fucking flipping out. Yeah. And they're yelling at somebody that had nothing to do with it and cannot control the situation and make it better for you because this, you know, this dude is going with this fucking cell phone out and waving it going, I, you know, I.

My seat was business and now I'm in the back and it happens and it sucks. But don't be that person. You're yelling at somebody who can't not do a thing about it. Yeah. And sometimes you can even just, you're like it feels like splitting hairs, but it's like, okay, if the airline fucked up, I get why you're a little upset. But this is a storm. Like this is like every plane in the entire airport is on the ground because there's a lightning storm. Right. And you're thinking that if you're just super rude to this person at the computer, they can fix that.

Yeah, exactly. Yes, that's a better way to put it. Just like, well, sir, it's hailing. Yeah. And we cannot fly. Oh, did you say you really have to get where you're going? I just didn't know. Yeah. Okay. Well, we do have a plane for people like you. Yes. Right. But going back even to the punching down to, I do try to remind myself that these, as abhorrent as this behavior is. I try to go, I have no idea where this person, like, how many hours this person traveled to get here, how many horrible things have happened to them along the way, what kind of anxiety they're bringing to, having had my own share of like, wow, I really wish I'd handle that better. I do try to go, this person as horrible as they're behaving is not having a good time. Like something is wrong inside this person. Yeah, I mean, that's noble that you try to remember that. And that's a good thing. I don't know if I'm, I have done that as much as I should have or could have.

But yeah, it's a good. But there also is a line. Of course. I'm not saying it. It's funny, like with Daily Stoic, like, we have a customer service person. And when they, like, show me some of the customer service. What is the daily stoic? Daily Stoic is, so it's, it's all about stoic philosophy that we're talking about.

And it's like a daily email. It's social media. It's this podcast. But like, you know, we sell stuff. And it's funny to see the people who write. to customer service and how fundamentally un-stoic they are. Right. As if, again, it's like, hey, you're not yelling at a computer.

Like, this is a person. She sits right over there. And, like, I wonder if people have kind of started to assume that just everyone and everything they're dealing with is like a computer bot, so it's okay to yell at them. But it's like, that's a human that you're talking to. Yeah, I'm not sure about that. I think they just, it's about venting and it's about, you know, the classic Karen thing.

Yeah, I mean, because you see enough of it. I mean, these fucking viral videos of somebody at a McDonald's, you know, like you didn't, you put the wrong sauce and then they're throwing milkshakes at people. It's just awful, you know, road rage. Road rage isn't a thing until it was. And then it was like everywhere, you know. Yeah. But like when I watch some of those videos, not to excuse them, I'm like, this person is having

some kind of psychotic break. You know, like this person is not well. Like, obviously what they're doing is not okay. And then this is obviously gets into things like, hey, maybe it's not a good idea, given a certain percentage of the population is not mentally well that we should just flood the country with millions of guns. That seems like, you know, an explosive combination. But sometimes when I'm watching those videos, I'm like, this person who's screaming at

someone at Costco and they're in slippers and a robe and they're yelling. And it's like, obviously what they're saying. is inexcusable, but like, this person needs to be, like, medicated. Like, this is, this person is not well. Well, I mean, sometimes, sure, but sometimes I think people are, it's that sense of entitlement. And it's, it's kind of the similar logic of when there's a really long line for something. And you're in that line. And the thing that you're in line for is, let's say, to look at a painting.

Yeah. This isn't the best example. And you're in that line the entire time going, come on, just move. All right. You've been looking at it for a minute now. Enough. Move on. There's other stuff.

That's your process. That's what's going through all the way until you get to like three back. And then you're like, well, I'm. I've waited in the sign. I'm going to take my time. You know what I mean? It's that kind of, again, not the best example, but that idea of, you know,

I am at your store and you're supposed to customer is always right. And da-da-da-da-da-da. And these, just the sense of entitlement that everybody has in any situation, you know. Yeah. Yes. The, it's my turn to get what's mine. Or, I mean, we see this with all these, like, nobody paid off my.

student loan debt or whatever. It's like, okay, but it was a fraction of the, it was a fraction of the amount. Whole groups were excluded from attending the college when you went. But also, also, also, this will benefit you. This is a thing. I know in your brain, you're like, that's not fair. But this will directly benefit you. If this person has less debt and they, I mean, this is Keynesian economics 101. Yeah. And then. Then they have now all of a sudden they have money so that they don't have to work three jobs. They're not tired behind the wheel. Their kids are better adjusted.

I mean, it just goes. Yeah, that one is so weird too because it's like it's the people who are mad about how unfair it is are the people who like to say life's not fair. You know, like, yeah, it's kind of not fair. You had to do it and now they're not. But it did it's not taking anything from you. Like it's not a. It's not actually giving. It will benefit.

that person. Be that as it may. It's them, them getting something that you didn't get is not taking anything from you. Right. I understand. Yeah. There is that sort of immediate childlike part of us that's like, well, everyone should get the same. It should be fair. And it's like, that's not how it works. Isn't the whole point that the world is supposed to be better for the people that come after us? Like, isn't that what our, one of our main jobs as a human being is, is to like make things less hard for the people coming after us. Like, that's, I feel like that's kind of the point of a civilized society. Right. It's certainly a worthy goal. Yeah. But, I don't know, that, that getting angry about other people getting stuff is a very animating force and sort of always has been. Yeah. I mean,

especially when it's the government, you know, particularly when it's the government saying this. Most leaders have a clear picture of how work is supposed to get done, but they have almost no visibility into how it's actually happening day to day. And without that visibility, you're just making decisions, like what to automate or where AI is going to be helpful based on not much more than your gut or, you know, how you've always done things. And traditional approaches, you know, you can hire a consultant, you can map out processes. Now, this could take months. By the time you get the data, it's outdated before you can even use it. And that's exactly the problem that today's sponsor Scribe was built to fix. Scribe is a workflow AI platform trusted by 94% of the Fortune

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This has been a paid testimonial from a current Wealthfront client, which creates a conflict of interest. Client experiences will vary. Wealthfront brokerage is not a bank, and the base APII is as of January 30th, 2026, and subject to change. For more information, please see the episode description. The special is very, very political. I mean, you're opening with the Trump thing and you have some other stuff. It's not really. I guess we're going to consider the abortion stuff political.

I guess it is. Yeah, all right. I'm not saying it in a bad way. I admire it. No, no, I know. I just. I didn't take it that way. I just, and I suppose I'm being a little defensive here because I have been really careful and worked hard at all, like the last five, six specials, whatever of.

delineating like so a third and no more than a third of the hour and 15 minutes is quote political unquote or you know talks about religious stuff and then a third I try to make just really silly dumb jokes which I have plenty of there had nothing to do with anything they're just dumb jokes and then a third are anecdotal things this thing happened and I observe this and this is what I think of that and I often I think because the political content can be kind of sharp. Yeah. I think I, and I'm just, this is a defensive posture night, so I apologize for that. But it's just like people will kind of pigeonhole me as a political comic.

And I'm like, I'm not. I'm a comic who does stuff about politics. So that's where that came from. And I apologize for. No, it's actually what I was going to bring up because like it feels like that word doesn't capture what it's like, you're not like talking about like the, marginal tax rate or something. Do you know what? Like it feels weird that we have to say like politics about, you know, what feel to me like basic issues of the social contract and like how, like,

what's happening in the world? And then people are like, well, why are you being so political? And it's like, well, because I'm alive and I have eyes. And I haven't turned my heart off to other human beings and what they're going through. So I feel like I have to say something. But I would like not to have to say something because I would like this not to be happening. Right. But what I was going to ask is it feels like you make a choice to talk about it even though you understand at some level, it's going to upset some people. Oh, yeah.

I've never cared about that. And I'm very, you know, I'm a polarizing figure. And I know that. And I'm not going to do anything to, you know, I mean, at this point, the ship has sailed about trying to please everybody and be like a, you know, clean comic who doesn't take sides, you know, but I have no interest in that. And I never ever, ever, not once have I ever thought, hmm, I need to figure out a bit about women's rights in this country. It just occurs to me when I'm reading, thinking, walking down the street, whatever, and then and then you work on stuff

on stage and but I do consciously I will go this feels this hour and 10 minutes 15 minutes feels too too political and I need to take some of this stuff

and maybe I'll do it in the next special but you know so I do kind of I guess the reverse where I think okay this is too much about this let's get let's have some fun but do you also go hey you can't just be talking about silly, ridiculous stuff when the world is on fire. It just has never worked out that way.

There's always... There's always too much. There's always something to... Yeah, it really is about pulling that stuff back on. This is too much. I don't want to do... And I've always... I prided myself on...

And this special doesn't do it so much, but the last, you know, several tours where it's like, I'm not going to even get to this stuff until we're 30 minutes in. So if you get upset and you walk out, you know, and that happens, you know, I know that the first 30 minutes were inoffensive, had nothing to do with religion or politics or it's a story about whatever. You know, there might be a line here and there, but like, I know you got at least 30 minutes. Right. Of entertainment before you went.

Fuck you! You know. And you chose, you chose to do this one not in a sort of theater, the kind of glamorous, maybe like special that people. Can we turn the AC down? Warmer or colder? No, sorry, off. Oh, it's going to heat up real quick. No, no, no.

Out there, the ceilings are like 20 feet tall. But in here it's small. So like it's, so like the AC is very concentrated in this tiny windowless room. So it either gets very cold. they're very hot in here. Right. Right. Also, when it gets hot, I'll ask to. No, I don't know.

We're, we're good. I have no character. Yeah. Growing up in the South, you do get used to just being way too hot or way too cold. It's like, it's never the right one. I grew up in Georgia. Yeah. So, uh, I know that thing.

But it, the inverse is true when you go, like in New York and you have a particularly hard winter and you are bundled up. in four layers and then you go into a bar or you go to a restaurant or you go to a movie theater and it's fucking broiling. Yeah. And now you got to take everything off and basically strip down your shirt and then you, yeah, you have the kind of similar thing. And then also in the summer, if it's hot, you know, and then you go see a movie and you're freezing.

Like, Jesus, guys. I don't know how people lived here before. Like the idea that air conditioning is not that new or not the, that old of an invention is kind of crazy. Yeah. Like it's... Oh, and they used to wear wool suits. I know.

It's like a chesedem. Yeah. You know, like I look at those old pictures, uh, you know, New York, Lower East Side. Yeah. And these guys, you know it's like 92 degrees. Yes. And there's people in these three piece suits and hats and like, oh, God, that's, and it must a stunk.

Right. Oh. I feel like they don't talk about that. Like how, how? And what was the laundry situation? Like, these are, in many cases, like, poor people. So it's not like they have a closet full of 50 suits and they're rotating them. They're, like, they would wear the same shirt and just change the collar.

So, like, how disgusting must have everything been. And then they're, like, riding horses. And, like, it's just disgusting. I don't have any idea how it worked. Well, I mean, it's, that's what they knew. Yeah. And so. It seems normal.

Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. I wonder, too, if some of the brutality. of the world back then was just like everyone was so uncomfortable and miserable all the time. It was hard to have like a scale of like what was good. Well, there, uh, I lived in London for a couple years and, you know, AC, at newer, newer places have them, but like, uh, if you went through any kind of heat wave like we get here, I mean,

there's, most places don't have AC that, you know, where people live. Yeah. And they've got, uh, you know, the fans that they'll plug in, but that only does. does so much. I mean, it's, it's, it's tough, you know. Thousands of people die every year in Europe from just the heat. And like that we, that's obviously going to be one of the consequences of climate change. It's just like more Europeans dying. Well, we just take, it's not an American news story. Like, we talk like something there, it's actually similar. I could be making this up, but I remember reading an article that was like gun violence versus like heat deaths across Europe are fairly similar. Like,

So we murder a lot of people every year. But like in other countries, they just keel over from the heat. And like that would have been just background noise in the world for hundreds of years that just like in the summer, sometimes you die from from sweltering in your tenement apartment. Well, you've been to Phoenix? Yeah. So there's a handful places in the United States where I'm like, why? This should not exist. What the fuck?

And if you go downtown where they have like, you know, kind of concentrated, you know, fun town things. Yeah. And all the like outdoor bars and the sports bars and entertainment centers or whatever. When you're downtown in Phoenix, all of them have these things on the outside on the street that missed you. Yeah. And that's so you don't die. Yeah.

Like the city, in order to live there and work there and congregate and go out to dinner, you have to be wet by the city. The city has to wet you down because you might die. Yeah. Why the fuck would you move to that place? Right. And the irony, too, of like, it's hot also because everything is concrete and cement. So it just like it sucks in the heat and then and then it like Phoenix if no one lives there, obviously it's still a desert. But like nature does a decent job of making that somewhat hospitable because it's like it's hot during the day but it's cool in the shade and it's cool.

Yeah. But then modern man comes in and actually makes it this like concrete oven that's like slowly releasing the heat throughout the day. So it actually is hotter longer. It's madness. Yeah. especially when we know there are measures you can take to rectify that situation. Yeah. To reverse it.

But people really like golfing. They love golfing. And that's where they do the golf. It makes no, they're like, what is the most water-intensive, like, green thing we could have? I guess we could put that anywhere in the United States where the climate makes sense. But what if we actually, what if we put them in Palm Desert and Arizona? That seems like, that seems like the best place. Yeah, just that's what we're going to spend our water on.

Yeah. Well, it's like, they're like, there's nothing here. Let's build. And it's like, there's nothing here because it's in hospitable and horrible. Yeah. That's why. It's madness. Hopefully we'll go to the moon and build some golf courses up there.

That'll be way spread out. Won't need this much water. I don't know how we get the, what? We'll figure it out. Yeah, doesn't George Carlin have a thing that's a golf? Arrogant game. What? An arrogant game.

Like, we need all this space for one person to hit this tiny ball. It is madness. Yep. You want to see the bookstore? Yeah.