The Daily Stoic - What Ryan Holiday Would Ask Marcus Aurelius

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

If Ryan could sit down with Marcus Aurelius and ask him one question, it wouldn’t be about Meditations or Stoic philosophy. In today’s episode, Ryan poses the question to Professor William O. Stephens, author of and they discuss why the answer is far more complicated than it seems.👉 WATCH ON YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM3h-VhQPvYWilliam O. Stephens is a philosopher specializing in Stoicism, ethics, and ancient philosophy. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Pennsylvania and spent over 30 years teaching at Creighton University, where he is now Professor Emeritus. His work spans topics like friendship, ecology, and human nature, with a focus on Stoic thought. His latest book is Marcus Aurelius: Philosopher-King (2025), and he is also the author of Marcus Aurelius: A Guide for the Perplexed, Epictetus’s Encheiridion: A New Translation and Guide to Stoic Ethics, and Stoic Ethics: Epictetus and Happiness as Freedom. Check out more of William Stephens’ work at https://WilliamOStephens.com/📚 Grab a copy of Marcus Aurelius: Philosopher-King by William Stephens🎟️ DAILY STOIC LIVE | Ryan Holiday is coming to a city near you! Grab tickets here |  https://www.dailystoiclive.com/🎙️ AD-FREE | Support the podcast and go deeper into Stoicism by subscribing to The Daily Stoic Premium - unlock ad-free listening, early access, and bonus content: https://dailystoic.supercast.com/✉️ FREE STOIC WISDOM | Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail--Stop online threats before they become real-world attacks. Visit ironwall.com/DAILYSTOIC and request a free Risk Assessment to see exactly how exposed your executives are.--Wealthfront’s high-yield cash account: https://www.wealthfront.com/stoicThis experience may not be representative of other Wealthfront clients, and there is no guarantee of future performance or success. Experiences will vary. Ryan Holiday, who’s a client of Wealthfront, receives cash compensation from Wealthfront Brokerage for paid testimonials in his podcast, creating a conflict of interest. More details available via the referral link. The Direct Deposit Plus Investing Program from Wealthfront Advisers LLC and Wealthfront Brokerage LLC provides eligible clients a 0.25% APY increase above the base APY on eligible Cash Account balances (up to an overall boosted rate of 4.30% for a limited time when including the three month 0.75% APY boost for new clients) when you direct deposit $1,000 a month, plus open, fund, and maintain an investing account. Wealthfront may change or end the program at any time and determine eligibility at its discretion. Terms apply. Full details at wealthfront.com/promo-terms.The Cash Account, which is not a deposit account, is offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC ("Wealthfront Brokerage"), Member FINRA/SIPC. Wealthfront Brokerage is not a bank. The Annual Percentage Yield ("APY") on cash deposits as of January 30, 2026, is representative, requires no minimum, and may change at any time. References to the APY for the Wealthfront Cash Account, including any APY increase, are to the APY paid by insured depository institutions that participate in our cash sweep program (the "Program Banks”). Wealthfront Brokerage does not pay interest. Wealthfront Brokerage sweeps cash balances to Program Banks, where they earn the variable APY.Instant and same-day withdrawals use the Real-Time Payments (RTP) network or FedNow service. Transfers may be limited by your receiving institution, daily caps, or participating entities. New Cash Account deposits have a 2–4 day hold before transfer. Wealthfront does not charge fees for these services, but receiving institutions may impose an RTP or FedNow Fee. Processing times may vary.. Fees & Eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features.Investment advisory services are provided by Wealthfront Advisers LLC, an SEC-registered investment adviser. Investing involves risk, including the possible loss of principal. Securities investments are not bank deposits, bank-guaranteed or FDIC-insured, and may lose value.--See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the Daily Stoic podcast, designed to help bring those four key stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world. One of the questions I get asked the most is, if I could ask Marcus you realize any question, what would I ask him? And usually, I somewhat cheekily say, I'd ask him, man, what the hell happened was comidus? And it is fascinating, right? Like, how does someone who's so decent and, diligent and responsible and dutiful, someone who is so philosophical, someone so committed to these ideas, of Stoicism, how do they leave their empire to a son who is the opposite of everything they stand for? Like, was he blind to Comedus's faults? Was he negligent as a parent?

I don't know, right? It's so easy, of course, to turn children into moral referendums on their parents. And anyone who has kids knows that that's not exactly how it works. But I think we all know something clearly went sideways. This was not how Marcus wanted it to go. And so I think it's worth exploring and it's worth contemplating. And it's what I talk about with today's guest, Professor William O. Stevens, who is Professor Emeritus of Philosophy at Crichton University and the author of a fantastic

biography on Marcus Realist called Marcus Realis Philosopher King. He's written extensively on Marcus, on Epictetus, on the practical demands of stoic ethics. And so in today's episode, we are riffing on what went wrong with Comitus and also the history behind it. Because history and politics and precedent and tradition all play a part in how this decision came about. And that's not to excuse Comedus, who is probably. worse than people think. Like, you watch the movie Gladiator and you go, oh, Joaquin Phoenix is an incredible actor, but this is fictional. When you read Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbon presents commonus as even worse. And at the time, the Romans thought he was one of the

worst emperors to ever live, right? How does this happen? One of the best emperors leads to the worst. And that's what we're going to explore in today's episode. You can watch the full interview of this on the Daily Star Trek podcast YouTube channel, which I will link to this into today's show notes. I know more and more people are watching podcasts these days. I recorded this remotely with Professor Stevens, but it's a great interview, and he was just a delight to talk to,

and I think you're going to find him delightful to listen to and watch. Every time you look at your phone, there's another chaotic headline. You almost feel like you have to be glued to your screen to keep up. But saving for your future doesn't have to be this hard, because Wealthfront helps you tune out the noise and earn more with a high-yield cash account and sophisticated, easy-to-use investing products. Their cash account lets you earn up to a 4.3% variable API

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And then you get an additional 0.25% APY increase when you direct deposit $1,000 a month and maintain a funded investing account. Join the million plus people already building long-term wealth with confidence. Start earning up to 4.3% variable APIWI today by heading over to wealthfront.com slash do. terms and conditions apply. This has been a paid testimonial from a current wealth front client, which creates a conflict of interest. Client experiences will vary. Wellthfront brokerage is not a bank, and the base APII is as of January 30th, 2026, and subject to change. For more information, please see the episode description. Violent threats against executives are growing at an alarming rate. And when a company experiences backlash, executives are the first people blamed. And when their

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show you just how exposed your executives are and how to lock it down before a threat reaches their front door. That's ironwall.com slash daily stoic. Learn how to stop online threats before they become real world attacks. The link is in the show notes. Sometimes people ask me, you know, if you could sit down with Marcus Reelis and ask him a question, what would you ask him? And there's so many philosophical questions I would want to ask. But I think practically, like the big one for historians is like, what happened with comidus? How does such a great man have such a, I mean, flawed doesn't even begin to capture it, you know, with regards to his son. So I imagine you spent a lot of time thinking about that. What do you think he would say or what do you think the answer is? It was the first time in generations

that a Roman emperor had a biological son who could succeed him. Yeah. Hadrian did not have any children. And Trajan, you have to go back, you know, 100 years, 150 years, approximately, I think, right? Several generations. So this is how it used to be done, number one. So that is the, that's the traditional way to pass on power, was. from the emperor father to the emperor to be son, number one.

Number two, we really have a lot of confidence that Marcus was really rattled. He felt so betrayed by Evidius Cassius. If Marcus did not have a surviving son who was old enough, who was close enough to adulthood, to ascend the throne and rule when he died, then it seems like Avidius Cassius would have been a very natural choice for Marcus to handpick because he was a proven general, he was very successful, he's respected by his men, there's no substitute for that.

There's no more successful, more highly respected military mind who could command men, right? who could rule over men than Avidius Cassius. And the whole thing with the letters with Faustina convincing him that, oh, Marcus is frail and he's about to die and Comitus isn't old enough to take over. And if Marcus dies, then we're going to get killed. I, Faustina and my son, my young son,

Commodus are going to get murdered. We have to have somebody who's strong to step in now and take Marcus's place because he's not going to make it. he's going to die, he's frail or whatever, he's going to get the plague. We mostly just don't know, right? So there are rumors that, you know, that might have been, you know, letters that, in the letters that Faustina sent to Evidius Cassius, but we do know that he led a revolt, or maybe he was egged on by his men. You're great. You're the great commander. You should be emperor. And there was a precedent for that in Roman history. Very, very successful generals who had, you had, you're the great commander. You're

the loyalty of their troops could decide, you know what, I don't really care for this emperor. I want the power. I've got the military might. I'm going to seize the throne myself by the sword. And Avidius decided that's what he's going to do. And so he started marching his troops west. And Marcus was like, holy cow, I count on this guy more than anybody else.

This is a disaster. And he never had to face him in battle because before that, Marcus marshaled enough troops and it didn't work out for Vides Cassius. He was killed by one of his own men. And so having been betrayed by Vidius Cassius, you know, what other choice does he have? Right. If he can't trust that guy, right, to enforce his will and he's not an option for a hand-picked successor and he's got this son, that's the natural choice. That's the traditional choice. Marcus couldn't see the future.

Sure, he might have had concerns about Comatus' character. Was he studious and serious and taking his responsibility seriously? Yeah, maybe not. You know, but he's young and he, you know, Marcus had his friends to advise Comedus and try to help him with his upbringing after Marcus was gone. You know, he's a little bit too into, you know, the gladiatorial displays like Lucius Veris was. He was not, you know, he was an okay, not great co-emperor. So maybe he thought, well, maybe Comitus will be as good as my adoptive brother Lucius was.

And he'll get enough. He will have learned enough from me that he'll take it seriously. But he didn't have the character for it, not by a long shot. Don't you think the tragedy of Marcus here is not just that he had a son who was flawed, but he had several sons and they kept dying? I imagine that if you were just trying to explain, incommodus and you're like, well, he was the sole surviving boy and watched four or five of his brothers die or, you know, that plus his dad was gone a lot for work. You'd be like, oh, that screw

somebody up. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, just amazing that Faustina had so many children. Yes. Approximately 13 children. And four. of whom live to be adults? I mean, it's a black parade of tragedy. I can't even imagine. Can you imagine nine of your 13 children dying? I mean, the grief, just the devastation. And so, yes, I mean, so I think that's insightful.

I mean, he must have cherished comidus. He loved all of his kids. Yeah. How could he not? You know, and Stoics are so misportrayed, right? It was like, oh, well, Stoics are going to be indifferent. Yeah. They're not going to be affectionate loving with their kids.

Come on. Epictetus says explicitly, once you have a child, it's no longer up to you not to love it. That's beautiful. That's a direct quote from the, from the discourses, right? And Marcus, you know, he got that. Yes, of course he loved his kids, all of them. And his heart was broken every time one of his babies died. And so he's going to cherish comidas.

Sure. Right. Like, you could imagine. any parent who is busy and has a hard job is going to, you know, maybe make some allowances for their kid, going to do so out of guilt, going to do so out of, you know, understanding that they didn't ask to be born into this life. And then you're right to layer on top of that that he held so many of his siblings in his arms as they died. It would skew your compass. I mean, every parent is blind to a certain degree to the faults of their children, but I imagine it would be

really, really, really hard to see the pros and cons of your child as a future emperor of the world when you have seen so much loss and devastation. Yeah, and how much discipline can you actually impose on a son who is, you know, destined to become the next emperor. Yes. There's a life of privilege, and then there's the life of the most privilege, as you've described before, right?

So, you know, unless it's the case that Comit has had that kind of introspective, you know, driven inclination to gain self-knowledge and be mindful of his weaknesses and then dedicate himself to overcome his vices and his weaknesses of character, as we suppose Marcus did pretty well, right? Yeah.

Unless he was a special child like that, then the temptation surrounding him are going to deform him as they did with Nero and Caligula. I don't know. Sometimes I think about when you're sort of judging historical characters, right? So Marcus obviously makes a choice. here to pass the throne on to his son. And we know ultimately the choice ends up badly. He didn't know that it would end badly, but it does end badly. There's no dancing around that. Comedus is horrible. Notice that he does the same thing that he did with Lucius. They were co-emperors. Right. So that was

an innovation that Marcus did. Yes. The empire had never had co-emperors before. And Marcus was, Marcus insisted to the Senate, I will, you want me to be emperor? I will agree to do it only. only if you make my adoptive brother co-emperor. So he's right from the get-go, sharing the power with someone else, right? Yes. And so he does this same with Commodus. He makes Comedus co-emperor, the younger co-emperor, just as Lucius was also younger than Marcus, right?

And we suspect, I think there's two things. There, one, this is codifying effectively what Antoninus had done with him, right, sharing power. And then secondarily, I suspect, or I think we can suspect that Marcus, probably wanted some version of that with his son's plural, you know, had had this worked out with fate. So yeah, I do think that's a good point. But as far as, say, not passing it to commonists, right, that people go, well, why did he do it or he shouldn't have done it? I think it's important that we ask ourselves, are you expecting something from someone that has ever been done before? Like, is there any kind of precedent, right? Is there any kind of historical precedent?

for a king or a queen who had a problematic child to say, eh, no, I'm going to deprive you of your so-called birthright, right? I'm not sure there's any precedent or example for that. Like, has anyone else in the thousands of years of history before or the thousands of years of history since been able to look at the character of their young child and say, eh, you're not cut out for this. we're going to create an entirely new form of government in response to that, or we're going to totally rewrite the laws or the traditions of our society in response to that.

I do think that's a lot to ask of a dying old man. Right. Absolutely. You know, Marcus, of course, is going to be aware that that's Comatist's expectation. Sure. He is the rightful heir to the throne. And so if Marcus picked someone else, then, I mean, this is Game of Thrones stuff. We know what happens here, right?

That choice is the choice of Civil War. He is choosing to throw Rome into a Civil War. It's bloody Civil War. Absolutely. It's going to be a total power grab. How is that going to be a better legacy for Marcus that he picks one of his other trusted generals? Oh, well, Evidius Cassius didn't work out. well, this guy might do okay.

Sorry, Comedus. You know, we're bumping you aside. He's promised not to murder you in your sleep. You know, like, this is why, exactly, this is why, you know, as much as I enjoy the movie Gladiator, you know, that story, that plotline is utterly ludicrous. There was no Russell Crow for Marcus to pick. There was no Maximus Decimus Meridius that he wanted to be

the protector of Rome and give the power back to the Senate. No, no, no, no, no. He had a perfectly legitimate son, and he didn't want Civil War to erupt by picking someone else, even if he did have those doubts. Yes. Yeah, no, that wouldn't have played at all. Marcus was smarter than that.

And he couldn't have known the future. You can't see into the future. All of those considerations, right? The tradition, he's your blood son. You know, as you were saying before, I mean, as I recall, Comedus was a twin. He had a twin brother who died when he was like six, six or eight, I think maybe around six.

And Marcus was devastated. He thought, as you were saying, they would be co-emperors, both sons, two sons, and he died. So it's like Comitus is the last son standing, right? Totally. Totally. And look, he's trapped in a stupid form of government, okay? Like it's a dumb form of government.

The idea of passing it to your child, it almost never works out well. It's a bad form of government. And so, of course, it ended badly. That's right. And it more often, the history of the Principid more often was ugly. That's why it was an exception when you had the rare examples of Trajan and Adrian and Antoninus Pius and Marcus. And I mean, look, this is true even in the modern age. I mean, your Queen Elizabeths are rarer than your Prince Andrews, right?

It's not good for people, and it doesn't tend to engender competent, selfless, you know, ethical people. And again, this is what makes Marcus Aurelius such an extraordinary story in history that he was basically groomed for this from a young age, and he didn't end up that way. And this is why in the book, I push back against a certain trend. Donald Robertson is a friend of mine, and he's an outstanding scholar, and I love the guy. And he likes to heroize Marcus, right? His earlier book on Marcus, he really heroizes the guy. And it's natural to do that. If you want to look for, if you're looking for heroes, Marcus is a natural choice.

If you're moved by Stoicism. I think it's better to see Marcus as. as deeply human, not a superhuman. Marcus had flaws. Marcus congratulates himself for not, you know, raping, taking advantage of sexually his attractive slaves. Ouch. You know, he has wars.

He had a temper. Right? Christians were persecuted in his reign. They were. My judgment is that, given the evidence that I've assessed, Christians were not really wide. known. So they were a fringe sect that not a lot of people knew about. And the provincial governors were the ones who under pressure from the populace, when they decided they wanted to scapegoat

somebody, the Christians were natural targets to scapegoat. And the provincial governors were the ones who were principally responsible. But yeah, but Marcus was following the letter from from Trajan, the previous letter from Trajan that outlawed that made illegal being a Christian. So, yeah, there are, you know, there are certainly warts. There's certainly flaws in the man. But that just makes him more fascinating to me. Yes. Because he had virtues and he had weaknesses.

He was a real human being. He was not a sage. He was not perfectly wise. But he recognized that as a prescriptive ideal, trying to be sage-like, trying to become wiser, trying to enact justice in your own life, and live in a kingly way, as you were saying, quoting from Musonius, right? That's his challenge. That's his goal in life.

And that allows for many good things to happen in his empire as he's fighting wars and battling the plague. And ultimately, that's where I come down on Seneca as well. In a way, his complicated, contradictory life presents endless opportunities for moral examination. And you don't get anything if you just condemn him outright. But if you look at the complexity, it can make you better.