The Daily Stoic - Which Way To Forgiveness? | Stoic Advice For Living Longer And Happier

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

It’s a story as old as it gets. Marcus Aurelius felt it when Cassius attempted his coup. Maybe he felt it with his step brother Lucius Verus. Epictetus, waking up to find his house broken into, his shrine desecrated. Imagine the feeling of Rutilius Rufus, learning that he’d been found guilty of trumped up charges by his peers back in Rome (this story in in Lives of the Stoics).Marcus Aurelius would say that the best revenge for these kinds of things was to not be like that, to not be like the people who had done such a thing. He’s right, but that doesn’t change that we’re still hurt. “Which way to forgiveness?” Tom Petty sings in “It’s Time To Move On.” It’d be wonderful if this was a destination we could head towards, somewhere that allows us to discharge the anger or resentment or grief we feel.-On this episode of the Daily Stoic Ryan remind us that health is wealth. Taking care of yourself is important. What good can you do in this world if you feel like shit all the time? Or if you lack the physical and moral strength—or in George’s case, even the basic mobility—to be of good to anyone? We are on this planet for a short amount of time. But if we practice bad habits, if we let our urges run wild, we will surely shorten that time. That’s not Stoic, that’s stupid. ✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each day we read a passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you in your everyday life. On Tuesdays, we take a closer look at these stoic ideas, how we can apply them in our actual lives. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy. Which way to forgiveness? It wasn't great. It was heartbreaking. They lied to us.

They stole from us. They betrayed the faith and confidence we had in them. We thought better of people and then people showed us who they are. It's a story as old as it gets. Mark's really felt it when Cassius attempted his coup. Maybe he felt it with his step-brother Lucius Ferris. Epic Titus waking up to find his house broken into his shrine desecrated. Imagine the feelings of Rutilius,

learning that he'd been found guilty of trumped up charges by his peers back in Rome. Markus really would say that the best revenge for these things was to not be like that, to not be like the people who had done such a thing. He's right, but that doesn't change that we're still hurt. Which way to forgiveness, Tom Petty sings, and it's time to move on. It'd be wonderful if this was a destination that we could head towards somewhere that allows us to discharge the anger or resentment or grief we fill, but there isn't. It's not a light switch. It's instead work that we have to do. The comedian Pete Holmes, there's a great daily stoic episode with's not a light switch. It's instead work that we have to do. The comedian Pete Holmes, there's a great daily stoic episode with him from a while

back. He's talked about how whenever he thinks of his parents, he tries to say to himself, I forgive him. It's not a magical incantation, but it's part of the work, part of the healing. We can imagine rusticists in exile trying not to be consumed by bitterness, trying to remember that the people who did this to him were human, were flawed, were suffering their own consequences for choosing to be this way. We can imagine Marcus really is trying to practice clemency for his enemies, perhaps he even read Seneca's essay on this very topic. But the point is, forgiveness is hard work.

It doesn't come immediately or easily, but it's the only thing that will heal us, the only way that we can keep going in life. I remember very specifically, I rented an Airbnb in Santa Barbara. I was driving from San Francisco to Los Angeles. I just sold my first book and I'd been working on it and I just needed a break. I needed to get away and I needed to have some quiet time to write. And that was one of the first Airbnb's I ever started with. And then when the book came out and did, well, I bought my first house, I would rent

that house out during South by Southwest and F1 and other events in Austin. Maybe you've been in a similar place. You've stayed in an Airbnb and you thought yourself, this actually seems pretty doable. Maybe my place could be an Airbnb. You could rent a spare bedroom, you could rent your whole place when you're away. Maybe you're planning a ski getaway this winter or you're planning on going somewhere warmer. While you're away, you could Airbnb your home and make some extra money towards the trip. Whether you use the extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun,

your home could be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. The point of philosophy is to challenge you. It's to make you uncomfortable. It's to fix the illnesses of the soul of the mind. So I embrace that opportunity. I do the practice willingly. I take the reps and I get better for it.

Ultimately, happier for it. Xeno lived into his 70s. Clampi's was 100 when he died. Epictetus lived till he was 85. Marcus really lived almost till he was 60, even though he had a number of very serious health concerns. If you look at the lives of the Stokes, it's pretty remarkable how long they lived,

especially in a time when people didn't typically do that. So what was their secret, right? What did they figure out? Now, I think their philosophy had something to do with it. I'm Ryan Holliday. I've not only written all these books about Stoke Philosophy. I haven't been lucky enough to talk about it. I'm Ryan Holliday. I've not only written all these books about Stoke Philosophy. I haven't had enough to talk about it. I'm the NBA and the NFL,

sitting senators and special forces leaders. In today's episode, we want to talk about that. I try to practice good habits in my life. It's interesting. We think a lot of what the Stokes have is practice, discipline, managing stress, managing extreme emotions. A lot of these things have the byproduct of helping us not just live a long time,

but thrive in the course of our life. So that's what we're gonna talk about in today's episode. Stoic strategies for living well, for longevity, strategies for dealing with, and getting the most out of these fragile, strange, unique bodies we've all been given. We wanna seek out little challenges in life. Activities, practices that force you to push against the limitations where your body is

telling you, where your mind is telling you, no, you're done, you can't go any further. You realize that that's not fully the truth. Your mind starts to wander when you meditate and you can pull it back. You're practicing that control, you get in the cold plunging, your body tells you, you got to get out. It's too freezing, you realize you push through and actually you come out feeling invigorated or better. So you develop these practices. The stoics say we treat the body rigorously so that it's not disobedient to the mind. That's what we're cultivating when we seek out challenges whether it's a cold plunger, whether it's a run,

whether it's meditation, whether it's just the crank in the shower knob. You cultivate a practice that helps you define who you are. you cultivate a practice that helps you define who you are. Your point of the sort of marginal decade, what do you want that last year of your life to look like? And of course, I think people are going to want mobility. One of the ones you talk a lot about is do you want to go skiing? Do you want to be able to keep exercising? Do you want to be able to go for your nightly walk. But the big one is probably going to be, can you pick up your grandchildren? And it's not just going to be, can you pick up your grandchildren? That's the physical component, but do your grandchildren want to come visit you?

Right. And so that's where the emotional side of it comes right back around. You cannot escape those decisions as we're thinking about longevity and living a healthy life. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's why it's so important to frame it up as physical. We haven't talked about the cognitive, but assume there's a cognitive piece

and then the emotional piece. It's not sufficient to wait until you're in your marginal decade to do something about it. Yes. In other words, you can't get to the marginal decade completely out of shape and say, OK, now I want to make sure I can play 18 holes a golf in my mid 80s. If in your 60s, you couldn't do it either.

Yes. Like, this is a glider that is falling and you have to be able to make sure you start with enough physiologic headroom to make that work. And the other point, and this is where I think it's, especially for someone like me, such a wake-up call several years ago, was, you can't have this fantasy that, well, I don't have time with my kids today because I'm so busy, but I'll make up for it

with my grandkids. And it's like, really? What in the world makes you think your kids are gonna wanna be around you, let alone have their kids be around you when you were, you know, a raging piece of shit. In other words, this is the exercise equivalent of what you have to do today to make sure you have that life tomorrow.

In that sense, it's a perfect parallel between the steps you have to take physically and cognitively to ensure a high enough physiologic headroom in your marginal decade. You have to have a high enough physiologic headroom in your marginal decade, you have to have a high enough relational headroom as well. I'm not saying that every single problem in your life can be solved by going for a walk. I'm just saying there's almost no problem

in your life that can be made worse by going for a walk. And you may well solve your problem, even if just because going for the walk calms you down or distracts you, but look, I would just say, whatever you're dealing with, whatever you're upset about, whatever you're worried about, whatever is vexing your mind or racing through it, go for a walk, put the body in motion,

let the mind relax for a minute, it'll be amazed at what might happen. And look, the very worst thing that can happen is that you got outside, you saw the sunrise or the sunset, you saw the clouds, you saw the stars, it doesn't matter, you got outside, you saw the sunrise or the sunset, you saw the clouds, you saw the stars. It doesn't matter, you got outside, you got active. You're better for that.

And I think it will probably make a difference whatever you're doing. But see, I've been thinking about that because part of life is pushing through when you don't want to do something when it doesn't feel like it's coming, right? You have to like develop this sort of tenacity, this stick to itness.

You know, you have these days where the resistance is telling you don't do it, and you have to push through. And then you have these other days where you're sick or you're tired or you're just not at 100%. What is the line between you're pushing through for the right reasons or you're not doing it for the right reason? Can I give you a dumber example?

Yeah. Not being able to tell someone you need to get up and pee. Yes. Because I'm thinking about something else. I have to pee. I'm all of a sudden suboptimal. And am I embarrassed that I'm human? We've been sitting here for two hours.

May I get up and use the restroom real quick? That's a harder thing for me to do. Being sick, I kind of am a little more clear on way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about the way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about the way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about the way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about

the way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about the way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about the way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about the way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about

the way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about the way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about the way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about the way I do it. I'm just a little bit more about the way I do it. I'm just a was like, hey, I love your work. And they're like, you can't say that here, you know, that's like saying, you're so entertaining when you drink, right?

Yeah. And one woman's bottom line was, I will get up and go to the bathroom when I need to pay. And I used to, I used to sit at my computer and think I had achieved something because I had to pay. Yes. I would kind of like see how far I was like edging or something. I couldn't, I wouldn't see how far I could take it.

And I was like, why? I'm thinking about something else, which means I'm not 100% focused on this, which means this is nothing to do about the work. This is some like self-depriving, masochistic, false sense of pain and gain that is not yielding the best work. It took me a long time like on Rogan to go,

hey, can I get up and pee? We've been here for four and a half hours. It'd be weird if I didn't have to pee. But then I would find myself getting less interesting, less entertaining, less funny, because I get up and pee? We've been here for four and a half hours. It'd be weird if I didn't have to pee. Yeah. But then I would find myself getting less interesting, less entertaining, less funny, because I was just like, I asked, do I ask? Do I not ask?

And who are you impressing? They don't throw you like a parade for having helped so long. No one gives you a check at the end. So it's like, you went four hours and didn't pee. It's like, do you have a UTI? Are you okay? Yeah.

You shouldn't. If you're taking care of your health, you should need to. And nobody is more unhappy than the person If you're taking care of your health, you should need to. What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health?

What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health?

What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is your health? What is an opportunity. This is a chance for me to practice the virtues. That's what the Stokes say. The obstacle is the way it's a chance to practice virtue,

to practice excellence. But more importantly, it's a chance for me to prove myself, if only to myself. Yes, of course, I would have liked it to go the way that I wanted it. And I might feel a little unhappy that it's not that way. But I'd be more unhappy if I never got this chance,

if I didn't get this practice, if I didn't get these reps with things not being the way that I wanted them to be. So I embrace that opportunity, I do the practice willingly, I take the rep and I get better for it and ultimately happier for it. There's a lot of people that have won a lot of championships, a lot of people that have made a lot of money,

had what seems like a glamorous, wonderful life. For how many of those people didn't do for them had what seems like a glamorous, wonderful life. For how many of those people didn't do for them what they thought it would do for them. And then there is, you could argue a rarer feet, which is the person who is great at what they do and has enough, or and feels good about themselves, or and is a good person. And that's the spot right there, that's the man, that's the woman, that's the person right there. And which one of those are you aiming at?

Or are you unthinkingly going, Steve Jobs greatest, most famous CEO of all time? That's who I'm modeling my life after, and you're not asking, what was it like to be Steve Jobs? Would I be happy living in that guy's brain, body, house? You can't just think, oh, I'm sure it's a nice fancy house.

You have to go, is this what I want? Is this what I meant for? Is it even possible to be a happier, good person at that level, living that way, having made those choices? No judgment on him specifically, I'm just saying. If you bring up the Steve Jobs or whoever it's gonna be, and you say, yeah, what's their house?

Well, you gotta, I don't wanna be like them. Great for the aspiration, but they, the whoever that is chasing that, make sure that you're asking, what's my house look like? How am I different to these details? Where do he and I differ a little bit? Where, man, if I'm trying to mimic him, we know that, that never happens.

I mean, you can't mimic anybody, even if you try to think exact same words, make the exact same moves. It's a different time. It's a different way. It's a different choice. But I know, I've got some friends to do that too, that are going after to be some, just like someone or try to imitate. And they are completely blind along the way to who they are, to what they feel, to what

matters to them, to... They're so objectively chasing something that they want to be, that they never really subjectively go, oh yeah, who am I? What am I doing? What am I like? I give a shit about. Yeah. And I think what we're saying is that the two don't have to contradict each other. Instead of talking about happiness, Aristotle uses its word, you die, Menea, which basically means human flourishing, which I think is a better way of thinking about happiness. Happiness isn't exuberance, it's not excitement,

it's not getting everything you want. I think it's a deeper place, it's when you're realizing the potential that you have as a human being in all your forms. And so if we can think that of happiness is that, the by-product of doing all the things right in your life, wanting the right things, living the right way, prioritizing the right things, doing the right thing.

Happiness is the by-product of that. Think it's a better way to think about it. Victor Frankl talks about how happiness must ensue. It cannot be pursued. It's not a thing you get as a reward here. It's actually the day to dayness of living and acting rightly, or for the still living and acting with virtue. I'm not a man.

I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. There's a story about Marx really leaving the palace and that friend stops him and says, Marcus, where are you going? And he says, I'm off to see sex as the philosopher to learn that, which I do not yet know. This was his interest in what other people had to say.

This was his interest in experts during the depths of the Antonine plague, right going back to Antoninus and the ability to defer and listen to experts. The first thing Marx does is appoint one of Rome's great medical minds, his doctor, Galen, to be in charge of the response. He doesn't think he knows everything. He doesn't let politics get in the way. He tries to listen to the people who know what they're talking about. In book five, Marcus Lewis talks about the proper role of philosophy in life.

He says it's not as your instructor. He says it's as kind of medicine and weightment. He just grabs a sort of ancient remedy for this eye illness, where they crack an egg on you or something like that. But that aside, what I think is general point, he actually is taking from epictetus who said, you shouldn't leave my philosophy class feeling good. You should feel like you just came out of the hospital. It's because you weren't well when you entered.

The point of philosophy is to challenge you. It's to make you uncomfortable. It's to fix the illnesses of the soul of the mind, even though there are passages of meditations that are soothing and reassuring. A lot of them are jarring. A lot of them make you uncomfortable. A lot of them really make you think or a lot of them. Maybe you instinctively disagree with, that's the point philosophy is not supposed to be your

instructor, it's supposed to be a kind of medicine. The Stokes talk about hard winter training, epictetus says this, he says you must undergo a hard winter training. Exposing yourself, getting out, getting uncomfortable on purpose is preparation for the inevitability of discomfort and difficulty in the future. In the Stokes practice this, they put themselves out there, they take the cold plunge, they would wear a thin coat, they abstained unnecessary luxuries, they wanted to toughen themselves up for the inevitability of what life had in store. And so if it's cold, step out there and enjoy it, jump into the snow, turn the cold knob in the shower, step out there, get outside your comfort zone.

It's toughening you up, making you better, putting you in a better position to be more resilient and strong in the work. Senaqa says, the one thing all fools have in common is that they're getting ready to start. They're doing it later. In meditations, Marx really started to do himself says, you could be good now instead you choose tomorrow. So what is the hard thing you have to do? What is the thing you're putting off? Do it now. Get it out of the way. Cross it off the list. Challenge yourself. Get stronger for having wrestled with it. Having crossed it off the list, having done it. Don't wait, don't say you're warming up to it, don't say you'll

do it after this, after that, when this is finished, when things are easier, it won't be easier. Do it now, while it's hard, because it's hard. I want to do something hard every single day that can give me a win. So I swim every day, I either swim, run, or I get in a cold plunge. Sena Kha's line was, we treat the body rigorously so that it is not disobedient to the mind. There are days when I don't want to do this.

There are days when it's pretty ugly, but I do it every day. And what you're building is the muscle of pushing through when it's hard, when it doesn't feel like it's going to pay off. When you're not sure where the finish line is, when you've got a long, dark tunnel to make it to the other side of, or, deep hole the dig yourself out of, if you've built the muscle that goes, I do hard things. I think this is why endurance sports and CEOs tend to be so intertwined, is like, you're building the muscle of doing hard things, right? Treating the body rigorously so it's not disobedient to the mind. I'm looking here at this cemetery in New Orleans, obviously every single person in it died.

Eventually death happened to them. But Seneca wants us to remember that death was happening to them always, all 61 or 80 or 90 or 17 of the years that they were alive. They died every second, every minute, and then eventually that stopped happening. So to me, that's a transformational life-changing mind-blowing way to think about life. Not that death is something in the future that happens once,

but that death is something that's happening always. And every second, every minute that passes, every year that passes, now belongs to death, it's as dead as any of the people in the cemetery. You'll never get it back, which is why you should live it, embrace it, and don't waste it while you have it. Every day, I send out one stoked, inspired email, totally for free, almost a million people all over the world.

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