The Dale Jr. Download - 278 - Jeff Burton: Respect Me

Episode Date: October 15, 2019

Dale Earnhardt Jr. meets with the Mayor, Jeff Burton, to talk about his racing family and a journey from backyard, to race track, to broadcast booth. They discuss brotherly run-ins, Ward's life as a trapper, the scrap with Jeff Gordon, a rivalry at Roush, helping the devastation in the Bahamas and much more. The DJD gang goes full send on big ugly spoilers and the yellow-line that created a stink at Talladega. Odd History unboxes a tale of an overseas NASCAR stowaway. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brother. Brother. This is a production of Dirty Mo Media. Brother Lemon Tia, something, brother. I'm on racing 24 hours a day. You ain't got to work. Cut promos. The Dale Housorner, The Dale Jr. Download.

Hey, everybody. It's Dale Jr. for another episode of the Dell Jr. Download. co-host Mike Davis, producer Matthew Dillner. And social media guru, Leavon is here. Let's bring in our guests. Man, I'm excited about this. Jeff Burton's in the house. And it's going to be a great show.

He's got some great stories, I know. All right. So welcome to the studio, Jeff Burton. My teammate. That's right. Right? Yeah. We're teammates?

What are we? Co-workers? Yeah, I'd say we're both. Yeah. You could be teammates and coworkers, I think. I'd go that. booth mates that's a little weird it's hard to say workers because i don't really feel like we work oh you don't watching racing man yeah it's true it's hard to hard imagine you have so much fun

y'all have enough meetings y'all have enough production meetings i thought you could only do that in driving race cars do it talking about them too yeah i guess but i i feel like y'all you can justify calling it work by all the production meetings you guys do they're pretty easy though there's Yeah, 10 minutes, 15 minutes. We don't really have any responsibilities in there. It's more, I think if you're a producer or somebody in there, running at, doing something in one of them trucks. You guys just listen?

They seem like they're under pressure. Yeah, I guess so. They have a little bit more. They got timelines. So they'll give us a sheet of paper, and they'll give us a rundown of the introduction of the race and the show and how we're going to come on air and all that, and it's down to the minute, down to the, you know,

and they stick to it. I didn't think it was, I didn't know it was that deliberate. Yeah, and I don't know how they do it with us. Stick to the second, because we just keep talking and carrying on. But the meetings are fun. Like, we have a good time,

we laugh and carry on. It's not like a, it's not like a normal meeting. It's like just a bunch of guys getting together talking about what the hell's going to happen next few hours. It's not, it's not. Okay. Yeah.

So you guys don't really work. The travel, the travel is the part with its work. Is it? That's the only part that would consider it work. But the actual, once you get there we don't work. All right, well I'm done feeling sorry for you because I now I'm convinced.

It's hard, we're hard, hard, enjoyment. Yeah, I got you. I thought that, if this makes sense, everywhere, I think everywhere in the workplace, it's competitive, right? You got people that like your job, they'd love to do your job,

and then everybody's trying to go forward, move up, get up to that next opportunity and get the next opportunity and get the next raise and so forth and we aspire to do more and do different. And when you're driving race cars, especially at a cup level, you're there, you know. And now there's drivers that have to look over the shoulder. Absolutely. I mean, more, probably half the field or more, have to be worried about their jobs.

But I never did. And, you know, when I was driving, admittedly, I mean, I didn't have to worry about my security as much. And it wasn't a competitive atmosphere is what I'm trying to say, the point I'm trying to make. And when I left driving cars and I was getting ready to go into the broadcast booth, I thought that it would be competitive, like this was going to be new for me. I was going to go into the real workforce and there would be competition and wouldn't be nobody's system and nobody's going to have their arm around me. And, you know, I just was bracing myself, I guess, for it to be very tough.

And you got to work, you got to deliver, you got to be ready, and you better have your stuff together and be prepared. Now, you do. I mean, they want you to be great. But, man, I was really surprised how, I was really surprised that it's really similar to how it has been for me, pretty much most of my racing career as far as comfortable, friendly, a positive environment, supportive environment. And it started with Jeff.

I mean, obviously, I was going to work with Steve. he's like, yeah, it'll be great. I'm like, man, I'd like to come broadcast, and maybe I could come broadcast with you, and we could big back together, and that'd be awesome. But Jeff called me and was like, hey, you remember that phone call? I did.

He's like, we want you to come. We want you to be part of the team. And I wasn't, I didn't know if I could be a broadcaster. I didn't know, I'm thinking in my head, man, there's a lot to learn, and I don't know nothing about it. but he he was probably the one that convinced me to dive in. Steve was a friend, very supportive, we're very close, but Steve didn't sit down and go, here, man, this is what I want, it's what I'd like, this is what I think you should do,

and just sort of very, I don't know how to explain your sort of approach to things, but he's very matter of fact and has, you know, this is a good way to go about something. I think he gets that as a father with Harrison. He's in a mode with Harrison right now trying to get his career established, and he's very structured. And so most conversations with Jeff are pretty to the point. So you gave him advice is what you're saying.

It wasn't just, hey, we want to have you a part of the team, but he also gave you ways to be to not suck. He, more than anybody, I think, made me feel real comfortable with doing something that I was extremely uncomfortable with. Listen, the reason that I wanted junior on the team was because, number one, we are a team. And number two, we're a team that loves racing. And so there's no one that loves racing more than junior. And I didn't care. Like, I had absolutely zero concern that he could come on air and just be.

him right that's what that's what tv that's what our tv is like they don't ask us to be people or not right so i knew that i knew as much as he loved racing and the perspective that he had that it would make our it would make the broadcast better right and a lot of people when when uh he started to come on a lot of people were like well what's that going to mean to you right i and i just want to ask you that that's natural for people to start questioning that right well yeah but it wasn't for me because i i was secure enough in my relationship with the people that I work with. I wasn't concerned that him coming in was going to, I knew it was going to change my job, but I thought for the better, because I thought now we had more people that know the sport that could come in and talk about it. And I think

that's what's the most fun about what we do is we get to explain things that a fan that hadn't been involved in it almost can't know it. And I'm not talking down to a fan when I say that. But, you know, I don't know what it's like to drop back in the pocket and pass a football. Like, I watch it on TV, but hell, I don't really know what that's like, right? And so the great opportunity we have is to explain that. And I felt bringing him into our team would just make that way better. And it was just that simple. And there was no question in my mind that he could get comfortable with that once he got in there with us.

It's intimidating to think you're going to be talking to millions of people and, you know, anytime you slip up and say something, they're going to jump on you about it. You know, that's a little intimidating. But once you get in the situation where it's just your buddies, like, you know, just sitting around talking, it becomes way easier. And you have to learn to learn to laugh at yourself when you do something. It is silly because you're going to. And I knew once he got in that situation that all that would, all those anxieties of being on TV would go away. Well, now that we're this far, now that I'm this far into it, I guess I'm curious how you made that decision.

to get into broadcasting. Well, it was a couple of things. I wanted to drive for another year. Really? Yeah. So I was, I was, I had pretty much told Richard that the following year, the year that I ended up being my last year, the next year I wanted to be my last year, and that was going to coincide with NBC. So Sam Flood had reached out to me. Actually, Marty, Marty Snyder reached out to me.

And I ended up sitting down with Jeff, with Jeff Inkey and Sam. flood and I'd known knew sam for a long time but didn't really know him you know he knew him had done some things with him but but and when NBC was when Sam was covering the sport before anytime an issue was going on they would come and interview me about it and so right I got you know the respect of Sam through that and then it was pretty quickly you know I realized that the timing was going to work out so that my driving career was going to end, but this opportunity came up. And Rick Allen and I did the very first NASCAR America together in Stanford, Connecticut. We were taping them. It took like five hours to do a NASCAR America.

And after one show, I looked at Rick, I said, I ain't doing this no more. Like, I can't do this. That's funny. I was live, though. It was live, but I don't think you enjoyed it any more than he did in his first show either. You were quite. Because I sucked at it. Well, I think that's what you're saying, too.

I don't know if I sucked at it or not. I just know that, like, we were taping them, and it was like, it took like five hours. Was Sam there? No, the Olympics are going on. That's the problem. The Olympics are going on. Because Sam was there for yours, and there's no questioning. If you suck, Sam will tell you you suck.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember him going into the break of your segment. After the first segment saying, you know, this is awful. Wake up! Wake up! That's perfect. Putting us it asleep. So you didn't have that.

So naturally yours went five hours. We taped it for five hours. But everybody was in the Olympics. Almost everybody from that building was at the Olympics. So we weren't doing it live. And it was a mess. But the timing of all that worked out. I wanted to drive another year and not have a farewell tour.

But I wanted to drive another year for me, just for me and my family to go, experience the Southern 500 for what I knew would be the last time. You know, all of those things that after doing as long as I had done it, I wanted that opportunity for me. You wanted the finality. Like, you wanted to be able to be able to kind of like just know the moment is it and appreciate it. But not just me.

My family has lived it with me, right? So I wanted it for them too. I wanted, and again, it wasn't about, you know, I didn't care. if a racetrack said, hey, it's Jeff Byrdon's last right. It wasn't about that. It was about just me going into a year knowing it was my last year and being able to race and

experience things from that. I'd never done that before, right? And he and I were racing at Richmond. We had both locked ourselves into the playoffs. It was the last race before the playoffs started, and that race was the single most fun race I've ever run in my life. Because it meant, it

didn't mean, like the weight was off my shoulders. It was just so much fun. I wanted to go through a year where I didn't have to worry about next year. I'm just going to go race and to hell with it. Whatever happens happens. But anyway, that didn't work out. And it didn't work out for all the right reasons. So Richard had an opportunity to bring Ryan Newman in.

They had an opportunity to extend a contract with sponsors and all those things. All that was right. All that was right. And on the other side, the TV deal wasn't done by any means, but it was lingering out there. like, well, maybe I can spend a year getting ready for TV, right? So all that worked out. So I had a year of doing NASCAR Americas, which we ultimately ended up not taping them anymore,

which was a blessing from God. And because taping a show sucks. But that's how all that worked out. So I got a year of working with Rick Allen, spent a lot of time with Rick in a work environment. So I got to know Rick really well, and that's how it all got started. So, but you did run some races for Michael. I did. What was that deal all about?

So they hired me, MWR hired me because Scott Miller was there and Clint Bore was there. And I had worked with them at RCR, and they wanted me to come in and be kind of a big picture guy, you know, look at things going on within the company about how to help move forward performance-wise. Because the truth is, I was better at that than I was a driver. So I went there to do that, but that never happened. Like it just never, with the crew chiefs and just the dynamics going on there, it just never happened. So part of that was also to test, go do some testing. I think I spent a winner at Kentucky, you know, just testing in Nashville.

I'm sorry, Nashville. And Big Track Nashville. So it spent a lot of time testing. And then we ran those few races. And that's just trying to evaluate. but that didn't. There wasn't a lot. That didn't help a whole lot, to be honest with you.

I could help in a lot of other ways. Yeah. All right, man. Well, one of the things that's been fun for me, obviously since we started working together was getting to know you a lot more. And one of the parts of your life that I'd love to know more about is your youth and when you got started racing.

Obviously, everybody knows that you and your brother Ward made it to the cup level, but there was a process. Yeah. What was that like? What was your first car? What was it about racing that said, hey, I want to go do that. Did you, were you just going to a racetrack and said, hey, I want to, I want to drive, I want to be a racer? Yeah, so I always loved racing.

Like, I watched racing. I was the guy in. Who introduced you that, though? Television. Was your father watching racing? My father was watching racing. And I, you know, watching it on television. watching races on TV and I remember laying in my bed with a helmet on, you know, acting like I was an IndyCar driver, right?

Because it looked like to me, they lay down when they drove, and I remember laying in my bed, pretending like I was an IndyCar driver. I just, I just... Did you have the race car bed? No. That didn't even better. I know, no race car bed. My dad, my dad is an extremely, extremely competitive person. I mean, like, ridiculously competitive person.

and someone that will spend hours practicing before he goes and plays tennis. He's 82 years old, plays tennis all the time. I think when he was 80, he won the Virginia amateur tennis championship, you know, playing against. They don't even have an 80 age group, right? So I grew up with him. I grew up with him like when he played something, he went in practice. That's just what he did.

And he didn't just go play golf. He'd go practice golf, practice, press, practice, and then go play. So he got, he introduced us to go-car racing. So my brother Ward, and a lot of people don't know this, I have another brother, Brian, who won more go-kart races and championships than Ward and I did combine. Really? Yeah, yeah. What didn't Brian make it?

So Brian didn't make it because he thought we were crazy as hell to aspire. So when I left high school, I went to work for Jay Hedgecock. building race cars, right? My brother Brian thought that was insane. He's like, that's crazy. You need to go to college. You know, his goal and his life was to run the family construction business. That's what he wanted to do.

So his deal was to go to college, do that thing, come back, immerse himself into the construction company, and that was, and he saw there's no way in hell you can make a live-in race and race cars. When I went to work for Jay Hedgecock, my mother took me, row with me, drove her car, I drove my car to High Point, North Carolina, moved me into my apartment, and I can remember her saying, Jeff, you got to come home. You got to go to school. This is not, you cannot make a living doing this.

This is your mom or is Brian? My mom. Okay. You cannot make a living doing this. So no one in my family thought there was any way that you could make a living. How big was your apartment? It was one bedroom. Where?

In High Point, North Carolina. Wow. Man, you just moved there? I just moved. Did you still wear your racing helmet to bed? The apartment. What were you getting paid? Listen, the apartments I was living in, you wanted to wear your helmet pretty often.

What were you making a week? Oh, God. 300. That's pretty good. Yeah, 300. That ain't too bad. Cash. What were you doing?

Oh. Cash? Cash. What was your responsibilities? Welding frames together? So Jay Hedgecock took a flyer on me because I didn't know anything. You know what I mean? The only thing I knew.

How did you know him? So when my dad bought, so when my dad. he bought a late model, a late model stock, a Buick Regal, had a Buick Regal body on. Everybody else had Camaros and Firebirds, I had a Buick Regal, right? Best aerodynamics. It was. It was an advantage that no one knew about. So he bought me this Buick Regal, right? And I had been working on this car at South Austin Speedway, just going to the racetracks.

I'd go to the guy's shop. He had a car port and never took the car off the trailer. Like the car never came off the trailer. We crawl underneath the trailer and change oil. Oh, an open trailer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Never took it off the trailer. Just parked it in his carport.

You know, part of me is like, this isn't right. Like, I didn't know anything. I'm like, this has to be more complicated. So he bought me that car because he didn't know anything. I didn't know anything. But when he bought me that car, he either had the wisdom or the ignorance. I'm not sure which it was to just buy me the car and say, okay, there it is. like no help no you know here's this guy right nothing and started that's that was my experience

that's what i knew about race cars was working on that car on that traitor and then uh putting that car in my my parents backyard putting the car in the in the tractor shed and started working on it that was my experience so when i went to j hedgecock i knew nothing um and and bobby lavani was working there really that's how i got to know bobby of Bonnie. Really? Jack Sprague was there for a short period of time. Yep.

That's awesome. What is this? Yeah. This is crazy. That's how I got to know Bobby the Bonnie is that he and I worked together at Jay Hedgecock. And what was he doing? Same thing? A hell a lot more than me.

Because he knew what he was doing. I didn't know. And Bobby would, he would always kind of, you know, try not to be rude, but I always knew he was snickering at me a little bit because I didn't know what I was doing. So I went there sweeping floors, cutting metal, cutting trailing arms, first batch of trading arms jay asked me to make i cut them he has a big bushing on one end a little bushing on the other end and a and uh and where the spring rear spring sat in the back there was a bung you had to drill the hole in i did them backwards so i built 36 trailing arms did them backwards yeah i thought that was

into my 300 cash deal so that's that's why i left home i wanted to build race cars and how long did you work there a year then where'd you go i went home i built uh i built a while i was there i built a new car and started racing that and got hooked up with... How far is Hedgecocks from where you... Two hours. Okay. Yeah, two hours. So you worked there for a year.

You built a brand new car. Where are you racing? South Boston and Orange County. Were you running limited or... I was running late models. Late models? Yep. Never ran limited.

I ran three pure stock races. Oh. Then jump right into late. He had a dude that was driving the car, got pissed off and went into Victory Lane and knocked the guy out in Victory Lane due to race contact. So he was suspended for a few weeks, and I was racing go-karts, and people knew, because I think my dad would go to the newspaper and take pictures of his winning races and make the newspaper print it.

That's how you can do it. He's a PR man. People knew about it, so this car came available, so I got asked to drive purestock car, and I won my first race. There you go. All because of a fight. In-line six-cylinder. A fight opened the door. How did you do with the Bute? Not well. I did make Martinsville with it, though. Really? Yep. God, dang, how many cars showed up that. So that's how I got a new car. Is my father said, if you make Martinsville, I will buy you a new car.

How many cars showed up there at Martinville race? I want to say 100, but that's, it could have been 80. You know what I mean? History has a way. It was a lot. Aerodynamic advantage. It was, it was big. So you built the new car.

This is, you built it. You probably spent a lot of time putting it together with your own sweating blood. tell you to the racetrack, how'd that work out? Good. We started running really good. That's when the magic went off. But I got some help. My dad realized I had to get some help.

Chris Rice. I know Chris Rice. Right? That runs college racing. His dad, Alan and Alan's brother Earl, started working with me, and the combination of having new equipment and those guys,

that's what lit the late model crew are off. Then we started winning. All these cars have stock front clips. They were all stock front clips. Well, a portion of them was stock front clips. You could hide, of it. We had made some, we had made some, uh, we made some, uh, we made some patterns. Yeah. So that we, you could, you could have a fabricated, the back half of the snout was fabricated,

but you couldn't tell it. Ah, that's nice. I can tell that now. Not then. Were they front clip or front steer? Yeah. Yeah. They all front steer stuff. No, wait a second. Now at this point, you're winning. Does your mom and does Brian, does your family now realize that you might, you might not be as crazy as they once No, because you're racing at South Boston Speedway in North County. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're not making any money. You're still crazy, basically.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, but it had changed from being, so early in my life I was lazy. Like my family thought I was like, because there's nothing I wanted to do. Nothing ever lit me up, but once I could actually work on something, now I turned into a workaholic. Now I went from being lazy to being some crazy dude that works too many hours. Matter of fact, my grandfather had a, had a, had a, had a, had a, had, I had a, my 18th, yeah, it would have been my 18th birthday party. My parents were out of town.

He said, hey, man, I'll get your buddies over here. We'll have us a get a keg of beer and have a party if you want to. Parents aren't here, and you'll be all right. I'm like, hell yeah, let's do it. But there was a race the next day, and my car wasn't done. So I was down there working, and my grandfather came down there. It said, boy, what in the hell you doing, man? All these girls up here, Kelma's there, you know, all these girls up here,

and you're down here working on his car. What's wrong with you? So I completely switched from being a kid that didn't know what he wanted to do to be in somebody that was just possessed. Can't even give a kid a beer now. He won't even come. Oh, we had some later. And Kim was there? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, wow. So you and Kim do go way back. Yeah, she was, I was 15. She was 14 when we started dating. Wow. That's the, that's a sign of a potentially amazing race car drivers, the ones that skipped a girl crazy phase. Wow. Like the car, the car keeps them focused.

Wow. What's Ward doing during all this time? Well, you're running the Buick. What's Ward doing? So Ward is, Ward, now listen, the timing of all this isn't right, but Ward went to college for a little while and realized that wasn't going to work. And then Ward, so Ward actually trapped for a living. So he literally trapped animals and sold hides for a living.

and lived in places that you and I wouldn't. Off the grid. Off the grid. All right. So that, oh, man, this is awesome because I was, I had heard that, and I don't remember where I heard it, but I heard it like once and never again, but it stuck with me that Ward lived in the woods for a year or maybe a couple years. And so that's what he was doing.

He really did. He lived out in the woods trapping. So you could drop ward off, you could drop ward off in the middle of nowhere. And he's going to come back and he's going to have put weight on and look better than he did when you drop him off. Like that man can, like he's just. He's an outdoors. What I think I know about. Yeah.

Yeah. I follow him on social media and he's passionate about outdoors, passionate about it. And conservation. Major. Really, it's actually. pretty amazing because he's doing what he loves to do. That's what he's always loved. I always thought Ward would really like to race, right?

Because he loved, he's extremely confident person, and he loves driving that thing in a corner deeper than somebody else and getting back in the game. I mean, remember we sat down a pole at Darlington? The next year we go back, right, and the track had lost some grip. And everybody's, so he's down the pole and broke track record, right? And so the next year we go back, well, hell, I mean, it's like all of the team. are going to go watch him qualify because he's going to be in the gas and he wrecked that damn thing because he saw it coming yeah like because he

he didn't care of the track it lost like last year damn it I broke track record I'm going to beat it right that's just that's just how he was and that's kind of how he is like you know in the outdoors I mean he just he really really liked racing because of that part of it but he loves absolutely loves the outdoors and he would be he would be just as happy living on, you know, some acreage somewhere in a one-bedroom. Like, he doesn't care about all the possessions. He cares nothing about that. He's completely happy working in the woods, loves it. So when he got out of college and did y'all's racing ever sort of parallel to any point? So Ward's six years older than I am. And Ward...

I didn't know that there was that big of an age difference. Yeah, yeah. So then... I look older than I am and he looks, show. So while y'all were growing up, y'all probably didn't have a very close relationship because of that. Because of the age. He's doing different things. Yeah, I didn't understand. You know, I watched some the things he was doing and it looked like it would be fun, but I was too young to do it. I'd gotten in trouble. And so we weren't as close. And then the racing actually kind of drove us further apart.

Really? Yeah, because, well, so my father was, bluntly, my father was helping me more than he was helping war. and that didn't help anything. You know, that changed later, but early it was like that. And, you know, my view of that was my father was helping me because I was showing how much I wanted it. I was, you know, I was working on race cars and doing everything I could. And, you know, Ward hadn't really done that yet. But then Ward, once Ward got going, then it changed. You know, then, okay, now Ward had something to focus on.

Because, again, here's parents looking at their oldest son. They're oldest and their youngest. one wants to figure how to make a living living in the woods and the other one wants to make a living working on race cars like how the hell is this going to work out and be the one of them i'm pretty sure they thought they were going to be supporting us for the rest of their lives yeah yeah but but uh you know there was uh there was some there was a lot of tension there for a while a lot of tension yeah between you and ward or ward and your dad yes both well tell me about tell me about ward like how he acquired when did he race late models how how long had you been running late models at

this particular time. So Ward started racing with Carl Long. Oh, right? Yeah. They were running, they were running Volkswagen, bugs, you know, at Orange County. Holy cow. And that, my recollection is that was Ward's first ride, and then I, so, Ward didn't realize they were just out there, you know, it was, you know, they were just all out there having a good time, right? Like, you know, and the board's like, hell of that, I'm here to win.

and I remember one of those guys being really mad at Ward because the exhaust comes out of a Volkswagen engine out the back and if you hit that thing, it can bust a head open and all that and Ward was in there digging and they weren't. They were riding around. I remember the guy coming down there, man, we can't be racing like that. He's heads.

And Ward's like, what the hell are you talking about? Like, we're here to win, right? Yeah. So, yeah, so that was that was Ward's first deal. And how did he get into late models? So there was a guy there in South Boston that had owned late models for forever. And Ward started driving for him. Who was it?

You recognizable? Oh, God. What's a car? Give me a minute. Those guys still probably do it. But somebody... You know me. I don't remember names very well.

Some guy had a car that had been running for a while. That's correct. They stuck him in there. Were you running late models in time? I was running late models. So you all eventually competed head-to-head. So now we're racing against each other. We raced against each other forever.

It sucked. I bet. It sucked. It's why I will not. Harrison's been on my ass for forever about racing and a race with him and I won't do it. Wait, wait, wait, what? Well, yeah. I won't do it.

Harrison wants to- Racing and race with Harrison? Yep. Well, I almost have you convinced to run an Xfinity race. The key there was almost. Well, I thought we were still, I thought we were still negotiating. Yeah. Damn.

Sounds like somebody got buffaloed. You would love it. Why would you not want to do that? I, because I experienced. You done thought about this and you've made your mind up and you haven't had the heart to tell me. Tell us what's going on here. I mean, you. So I have experienced racing against your brother.

My brother. And we never were on the same team. We were never in a situation where we could work together. And growing up in a small town, you know, two guys running cup, running late models at South Boston in Orange County, running Exfinity cars at South Boston in Orange County, running cup on television, people constantly compare you.

No matter what, they constantly compare you. So every day, every day, everywhere you went, you know, in South Boston, the conversation was there,

which was cool because people cared, but it was bad because people cared. And when your brothers, they're always going to compare you. I don't give, they're going to. Yeah. And it wore on our relationship.

And we had to learn to get past that. Like we had to learn to coexist in a sport that's cutthroat, right? Like, you know, you're racing for your job. You're racing for your livelihood. And, you know, on those days, Ward and I finished first and second, I think, three times. And I finished first all three. and I was excited in all three of those, but I was also sad in all three of those

because, you know, in two of those, I passed him for the win. So, you know, I took the win, and one of them we had a better pit stop and Rockingham, and I was just, the run was just long enough. If it goes five more laps, he beats me because he was so fast on long runs.

But, you know, I took those wins away from him. and there was this, damn, I just won another cup race. That's awesome. But I took it from Ward, right? And I knew how much it was hurting him. So it's so hard. So how did y'all get past? You said y'all had to learn to coexist.

How do you do that? Well, one of the big, he and I wrecked together at South Boston. Even today, we will disagree on whose fault it was. The bottom line is we were both faster than the guy that won. I had started in the back for some reason, don't even know why. and had driven up through the field. He was hounding the leader. I got to him, and I got to go, and we wrecked.

And we showed our asses after and gotten each other's face. Yeah, on the front straightaway at South Boston, right behind the traders, which, by the way, they should have paid us, because the next week I think the place sold out. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they should have paid us. So that was the moment where my mother stepped in, you know, and said, look, this will not be tolerated.

that was a key moment. And then as adults, and we became just more mature, we just, you know, we just had a conversation. You know, listen, man, like, you know, we got to pull for each other and, and we just had a, we just had an adult conversation. Did that come to blows, or were y'all just yapping at each other? You're not, not, you know, rarely the fights actually happen in racing, right? Typically, yeah, it's a lot of shoving and that kind of stuff. Rarely do the fights ever happen. Did that embarrass you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you didn't like the way that looked either way.

I didn't like the way it felt. Oh, yeah. I didn't like the way, I didn't like, listen, I, there's a couple things in my career I regret, and some of them are around that, you know, getting into an altercation with my brother at South Boston Speedway, although now is kind of funny at the time, made me feel bad. Yeah. You know, the thing with Jeff Gordon at Texas, I would say was the low light of my racing career. Really?

Yeah. Yeah, like that felt bad. So what happened? So, so we're racing. The first thing happened, we were racing for like 17th, right? And we're both in, we're both have made the final 10, you know, I don't remember what year that was, but I don't remember if it was eight or two. I don't remember how many cars, but we had both made the playoffs.

And we're both running like crap. I think we were racing for 17th. And I was running high and he was running low. And so off of turn for, Texas, we would merge every lap, right? And he would be right on my door and I'd pull him down straightaway. So that went on for a couple laps. We come off turn four, caution comes out. So we drive toward turn one and he takes a big swing at me, like huge swing at me, like trying to tear the left front fender off. Well, it pissed me off. So I stood in the gas,

trying to hit him, but not hook him. You know, hit him in the back, getting next to him something, right? Well, at the same time, he was not supposed to be in front of me because I was leading when the caution came out. He's checking up. Well, I hooked his ass in the right recorder panel, and when we wrecked, I mean, it was big.

It was. It was big. And so immediately, not 10 seconds, not three seconds, immediately, I feel absolutely horrendous. because I didn't mean to wreck him, but my anger got the better of me,

and the situation, you know, was not good. Like, I, you know, so immediately I'm, I feel horrible. Like, I don't even know how to describe how bad I felt. Remorse, regret, and all that. Yeah, and, and if I'd have meant to wreck him, I wouldn't have felt bad about it, because I'd have meant to wreck him, right? But here I am, and I'm thinking, this is the dumb, this is a single, dumbest thing that I've ever done in my life, and I've done some stupid crap, but that was,

and I knew right then it was. You were embarrassed. I was everything. I was embarrassed. So then, you know, he's super mad, and I'm super embarrassed, and he's coming, you know, he's walking down, he's, there's always something funny, right? He's walking down, I'm actually in the rescue squad already. You've gotten in there, and there's a nice lady in there, and I look out the wind, and I see him

walking down the back straight away. You can tell when somebody's walking with a purpose, right? Oh, yeah, he was. So I'm going to get out of here. She's like, you can't, you can't, you can't get out. I said, yeah, I go out of that door right there. I'm going to get out. No, no, no, no, no.

I'm like, you don't want that dude in here. Like, you know, you don't want him in there. So I go out and I actually walk, I actually go out of my, out of the rescue car, I walk back to my car because I knew that's where he was coming. And that's where that's where we engaged each other. And, again, a pushing match. and and um but then then he got in my rescue squad i'm like that's not right i was in there first oh he got in and left no no i got in with him how'd that yeah so he got in it oh he left and got in

and i'm like wait a minute that's my ride so i just went and opened a door and got in there with him all right all right which is what happened next how'd that go so i so listen i i i i was just blatantly honest he was pissed right he's like you know i lost a lot of respect for you uh which she said on TV, right? I lost a lot of respect for you. And, and it didn't matter at that moment what I told him, right? Because you're, you know, you're not, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but I kept telling him, look, man, I didn't mean, you know, I didn't mean to do it. And literally had my hand, my head in my hands, I'm like this, you know, because, because I, you know, it was ridiculous. It was ridiculous what happened. And it truly, it, that incident took some energy out of me for a while.

because it was it just was dumb it was dumb and I'm not that guy you know I'm just I'm that's just not me yeah so that one I don't like the

I don't like the conflict now I don't mind if I need to I don't mind getting in someone's face but I don't like the conflict that may ensue after if that makes any sense yeah so you guys ride and basically it's him barking

and you just I mean like there's nothing you're going to say to him, but that's basically what the right was. It's only been a minute long. Yeah, so then we go to the, we go to the infield care center. And so Mike Dillon comes in there. And Mike Dillon is, I consider Mike to be a dear friend and a great person, and he's ready to roll. Oh, he's wanting to fight. Yeah, he's ready to go.

And I'm like, now you're having to calm him down. Just calm down. Just please calm down. Yeah, he was ready to roll, which is cool because he's coming to help his guy out, you know. That was cool. Well, he had just watched you get, you know, pushed and, you know, that was only... Physical on the backstretch. I mean, yeah, I guess that that would have been an...

At least maybe he's going to come and just check on things. Let's call it that. RCR is a whole have an identity of ready to take care of business, right? I'm telling you. They'll scrap over there. It starts at the top. I know. I think it does, doesn't it?

Which is... which is awesome. I mean, you know, Richard Childress is that he's just, you know, that's one of the highlights of my career is having the chance to work with him because of that, right? Is that, you know, he's, he just, he, his persona is RCR. Yeah. You know, and you want to see him run better than they're running because that's, it's his heart, his soul, his blood, it's everything, man.

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Yeah, yeah. But it's, I know through my own experience of kind of counting calories and trying to either lose weight or maintain weight, I know about how much I need to eat every day. And so looking at these meals, I can, I know one, you know, breakfast, lunch, dinner, I could pretty much add up how many calories I ate at the end of the day rather easily, especially if it's printed right there on the package like it is with Kedaboch Kitchen. They sent a bunch of different items for me to choose. One of my favorites was the sliders, beef sliders.

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So you, I'm assuming, from what I know, you got into the Xfinity series with your own car. Yep. You all built a car and raced it. So you didn't get a call from somebody going, hey, man, you're running good in them late models. I want you to drive my Xfinity car. You went into Xfinity yourself. We did. And how many races did you run?

What was your ambition, their intentions, and how long did that work out? So we ran South Boston. Orange County and Martinsville, and the first year. That was when the Xfinity Series would still run those race tracks, which is awesome, man. We got to find a way. I don't know how. Got to find a way.

Got to find a way. Because, you know, people like Robert Presley, me, Steve Grism, I mean, the list goes on and on and on. Elton Sawyer, where these guys that you look up to so much come to your track. They're coming to my track, right? And so you build a car, and at that point, you know, there was no engineering, there was none of that. You could compete with them. I mean, you could have a shot and run with them and have a real opportunity to be.

Now, don't get me wrong, it was really hard. And rarely did the hometown guy make it happen, but there were occasions. And so I built a Hedgecock chassis, and we built their own car. didn't know much about it. And one of the highlights in my career was Mike Alexander. We were, they used to be, they would open the track and you could practice for three or four hours on Friday afternoon.

And, you know, tracks go open Saturday for the race. Mike Alexander's there and we're there and he comes down there. He's looking at my car. Now, this is a three-linked coal over car. Your car. And Exfinity, which is, you know, not many people did. Everybody had big spring trailing arm cars that they have today. Yeah, and Mike Alexander comes down and he's looking at it, looking at it, looking at it, and he said, that's the nicest car I've ever seen.

And right then, I'm like, hell, I've made it. Wow. That's enough for me, you know, and it was, things like that. It exposed you to those people. You know, I sit down and have a conversation with Jack Ingram, right? I mean, to this day, I see Tommy Houston at the racetrack every now and then, and I know him because of racing against him at South. Boston and Orange County. I mean, that's, we just, we don't get that today. Well, those guys, and so those guys were very receptive to you, I mean, because you didn't know.

So they're racing for food to be clear. Okay. I mean, you know, I guess so. You're right. You went, you went in there because it was cool and you were going to race at your home track and all that. They're racing to put food on the table. That's their life. And, and, and, uh, that's how they raced. Period. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I thought, models was intense and now you go and you're racing those guys and they're racing they're literally racing for their living you know they're none of them are getting rich most of them own their own their cars at that time and they were they were racing to eat and and you were you were the person trying to take food from their table and that's how they raced you well i bet the races were

incredible too it was pretty awesome yeah it was pretty awesome was there any point in your cup career or your extended career where you um where you had some struggles or regret or felt like that maybe things weren't going to work out? A lot. But it seems like you just had this linear sort of progression. Yeah. And I can't imagine that it was ever that easy. No.

So when I went after one year of working with the Rises in South Boston with our own car, that wasn't going to work because we just didn't know what we were doing. So those guys had worked with me for four years. I had to say bye to them and went to work for Samard. Wait, what? Oh, yeah. You went to work. worked for Sam Ard?

I drove for Sam Ard for a year. In his late model? And his, and his a bush car. So I ran a year of Exfinity. I ran a year of Exfinity. With your car. With my car. And then you drove Sam Ard's car.

And then Sam and I merged our teams. What number? 12. Sam Ard. Look at it. This is so funny. Rain Man let one go by. Yes.

He got him on this. Sam disguised himself. Got him on this one. Sam disguised himself in the number 12. You stumped him. He can't play. So what was working with Sam Ard like? I mean, this guy...

Hard. It's a legend. He was a legend, but he was hurt. You know what I mean? That wrecking, Rockingham was, I mean, hell at all, but killed him. And so it was me and Stacy Pereer that runs late models. Yeah, Perrier. Yep.

Yeah. I was calling Perrier. He and I moved there and worked with Sam. He's still racist. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. We lived in an apartment together. and at the end of that year that got kind of ugly because Sam had financially

had not worked out very well for him and we ended up going to we ended up going to court over that then yeah and then I went to work for Bill Packy and and they fired Tommy Ellis and hired me this is the 99 car correct Google Clusters one of the What was the sponsor when you got there? It was armor and food line. And so that was one of the worst moves ever by a car owner was to get rid of Tommy Ellis and hire me. So that ended poorly. The last race of the year, they informed me I wasn't going to be coming back.

So that didn't go very well. And then I went to work for, I mean, I'm at home trying to figure out what I'm going to do. We had one car left, and I was trying to get it ready. We were going to run a few Xfinity races. And I got a call from Phil Martasi with the eight car to come drive that. David Green was driving it. And for some reason, like late in the year, they decided they were going to make a change there. I mean, when I say late in the year, I'm talking like January.

Early in the year, I guess it would be. So I ended up driving that just for Daytona, and that ended up being a two-year deal. but that ended ugly Wow Here's the setbacks you were asking about It sounded like these things didn't end up That ended ugly So

What was it about the The series or the environment Where things were so difficult Because like you're telling me Like not only are you having hard times These deals are You know start out great And by the end of year they're

They're difficult The same thing as now Well I know But you're telling me like Tommy Ellis, David Green. I mean, David Green is one of the most likable guys. Yep. Easy to work with.

Yep. So every, but you're telling me that everybody was having hard times sort of getting alone or making something work. What was it going on? I think it was, well, a lot of it hinges around money. Yeah. I mean, a lot of it hinges around sponsorship. And, you know, if, you know, if, you know, if somebody could bring a sponsor,

that always got someone's attention. You know, people act like that's just today. Yeah. No, that's been going on forever. I don't know. I mean, it was just, it was those four years, so there was about four years, four or five years where I either got fired, went to court. Like, it was nuts. It was, and that entire time was like, damn, man, you know, is this worth it? You know, like, I just didn't know if it was. Were you not getting paid? Is that why you go to court? No, I was getting paid. Why would you go to court?

because at the end of the year, Sam had lost some money, and he took an injunction out to keep all my equipment until a case was settled because he thought that we owed him some money. And it went on for about a year. It went on for a year. The 99 car that you went and drove for where they let go of Tommy Ellis, that was eventually that Luxair car that Glenn Allen Jr. raced? I don't know.

Ricky Craven drove it after I did. That's right. Ricky Craven. Yeah, so I drove it, then Ricky drove it, and I think they got out after that. So there's a different 99. Yeah. I drove the 99 car at St. Louis, so that would have been a connection. Yeah, there'd been a connection that we would have.

Oh, wow. Had that in. Did it end in court? No. So that was an ugly, that was an ugly four or five years. Yeah. Yeah, he asked about any setbacks. What good things did you have happened in those times?

So check this out. So check this out. Probably want some races. So when, uh, so Phil Martasi came down and met with me and said, hey, you know, this isn't going well. We need to go different ways. And, and, uh, I'm not kidding you, that day, that very, that same afternoon, I got a phone call from Billy Stol, Billy Stolola. Really? Actually from Ken Wilson, who worked for Billy Stoll.

That same damn. day. That same day, that afternoon, I got a call. I had no, I wasn't even thinking cup racing. On that same day, you asked me what went well, I got a phone call. And so the next day, I'm on a damn challenger or some kind of big airplane flying in New Jersey to meet with the Stavola's. So in 24 hours. So that was the thing that went well. Was that just a coincidence? or had they caught one? It's complete coincidence. They didn't know that it had just gone south.

Complete, total coincidence. Yeah. Did they ask you, how are we going to get you out of your current deal? And you were like, well, it's not going to be here the problem you thought. So, yeah, those were some interesting years. And working for Sam, man, was really hard. Like, that was a, that was the hardest year of my life because it was just so much work. I mean, God Almighty.

I'm curious. We worked so hard. Working on the car. Are you saying it was hard, though, also working with the people? Is it working on the car? Sam and I saw the world completely different. So the first day I got there, I had an aluminum box, right, full of scales that I had built, and we're unloading everything because we're merging teams, right?

So we're unloading all of our stuff and just this is an aluminum box. You know what a scale box looks like. They all looked the same, but I had made this one. I was proud of it. we unloaded and Sam looks at me. He says, what's that? And I said, that's scales. What we're going to do with that?

And I said, well, we're going to, if you got a set already, I can take them home or we can put one in the truck or whatever. You know, if you got a set, I don't have no scales. And I'm like, what do you mean? I don't have the scales. He said, we're going to take the, man, all you do is take the car down at the beginning of the year. We'll take it over there to the grain scales and we'll get the left side weight right and get the total weight right. We don't ever need a set of scales again. The grain scales.

And I'm like. say what? And I mean, he didn't use scales to set a race car up. And he checked his wedge with an inch and three-quarter, three-eight drive socket. That's how he checked his wedge. Jack it up and slide it halfway under the tire, and that's what you got. And I'm like, man, it's day one. I'm like, this is going to be long year.

And it was. It was a really long year. So you got the opportunity to go to race for the Stavola Brothers, 1994. How are you feeling about being in the Cup Series and the security in that team? And, I mean, things seemed to be a little smoother. Yeah, well, I knew it was a, I knew it was a, you know, an underfunded team. I knew it wasn't, you know, I wasn't going to drive for Rick or Jack or, but it was a hell of an opportunity. And I was excited.

And it was, you know, I never once thought, well, we can't win because we don't have, you know what I mean? it was just full of optimism and go you know and it took me but i but it did in the first race at rockingham i'm like my god will this race ever end i've never that race is crazy and i didn't know i'm like i can't damn man it's all these races this long you know yeah i'm going to get used to this but about but about halfway through that year about halfway through that year even though we we weren't rookie the year and we had some good runs should have won atlanta the first Atlanta raced a year. We had Hoosier tires. And it's late. It's late in a race.

And I'm coming off turn four. And then the infield was completely different. I was coming off turn four and I could see Ernie Irvin running second coming off turn two. Yeah, the infield was low in Atlanta. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm talking we got maybe

30 laps left or something. I'm leading to race by that much. Wow. By that much. And the caution comes out. We have a bad pit stopping. Oh, man, you had them covered until then. But it steadily went downhill from there, I think. That year that year. Well, we had, that was the Hoosiers.

That was the tire battle years. Yeah. And when the Hoosiers were better, they weren't a little better. They were a lot better. And you could just, you could flat kick their ass, even if your stuff wasn't as good or you weren't as good. You could just kill them. And, and, yeah, that was, that made some interesting races. Yeah.

So you ran into eight cars, Stvvola Brothers car for two years. and got hired by Jack Rausch. How did that happen? Because I'm looking at your statistics, you had three top tens in the eight car in two years. But you did, like you say, you had those races where you almost won this race or overachieved in this event.

So, I mean, you were obviously catching everybody's attention in just those two years pretty quickly. So the truth is, this is pretty funny stories. The truth is Ward had a deal with Bill Davis. And, And Jack, or Jeff Smith, Jack, the president then of Roush Racing, called Ward wanting to know if he would drive. And Ward and I are at dinner or doing something. And Ward says, I got a call today from some guy, Jeff somebody at Roush, wanting to know if I wanted to drive for him next year.

They're going to start a new team. And, you know, I already got my deal done. and I'm like, hell, give me his number. Oh. So, yeah, all right, you're here. So I called Jeff Smith the next day. I say, hey, I understand. So next day you know, I'm going to Livonia, Michigan.

Dang. Yep, to meet with Jack. Wow. I went up there, and so I'm still under contract with Stavola's. So I, I, uh, Jack's like, yeah, man. And I'm like, hey, you know, I got, I got this whole thing I got to work out. So I called, I called Billy Stavola. And I said, Billy, I've got this opportunity.

And, you know, man, I really need to do this. Like, this is an incredible opportunity for me. And he says, well, Jeff, you know, we really, we put a lot into you, and we want you to stay, and we feel like we have a future. And I said, you know, Billy, I, man, this is it. Like, this is my shot. Well, buddy, you know what? If that's what you want to do, then that's what you need to go do.

and he let me out of my contract. That's very good. Yeah. Wow, that's nice. At the time, Rouse was just Mark? Mark and Ted. Ted Musgrave. That's right.

And Liberty. And so Jack wanted to start a third team, and he wanted to start a third team because he wanted to piss off the people in Liberty. Oh. Oh, yeah. So, I mean, I'm exaggerating that a touch. But when he hired me and Buddy Parrott, it's what he told us. He said, look, I got my teams in Liberty, but you, you,

act like they're not there. Like, you're not getting cars from them. You're not, like, you do it the way you want to do it. He said, there's a lot of ways I think they could do it better and they won't do it. So you all just do it the way you want to. Where was your shop? In Moresville. So he was trying to create competition between his two or between his teams.

Yeah, and up front about it. Yeah. Like, I flew with Steve Mill and Howard Comstock at that point was a crew chief. Mark was flying airplane. We're going to Rausch Industries for the Christmas party. And Steve Mill looks to me in an airplane and says, look, man, you know, take this however you want to, but we ain't helping you. You know, it ain't about you. Like, but Jack's doing this just to piss us off.

And he thinks we don't know what we're doing and we're going to show him. And, you know, don't ask for help. You know, Jack thinks y'all can do it, then you go do it. Which is cool. Like, right? I mean, I was good with that. So when we started, when we started the 99 car, it was, we were roush, but we were. We were roused south.

Yeah, we were roused south. Yeah, we were roused south. We didn't get cars from them. We didn't get setups from them. We didn't get shocks from them. We got nothing. Absolutely nothing. And that's how we started the 99. And that was kind of crazy. The first crack in the armor was I missed.

I missed the, so we're second in points. Okay, we're second in points. Go to Daytona run fourth, go to Richmond, lead the whole day. damn race, have a bad pit stop because we were a new team. We didn't have a good pit crew. Then, so we go to Atlanta and we're second in points and we miss a race. And the first crack in the armor was, you know, then you could qualify on the second day too, right? The first crack in the armor was that Mark Martin came down and he's like, look, how can I help you?

And he's talking to me about, you know, because we're slow, you know what I mean? and clearly I'm driving it, something, doing something wrong. And he comes down and says, man, you know, you need to think about these things when you're driving it. And that was the first reach out. It was in the branch. And so up until then, you and Mark had even no relationship, a little bit of a little bit of a relationship. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Mark had, Mark and I raced against each other in Xfinity series, and we knew each other.

and Mark was one of those guys that I could go talk to. You know, and hey, man, like, what you got in your, what you got in the right front of that thing? You know what I mean? Like, he would tell me. But what happened was the 99 started running well, and we were doing things completely different than they were doing them. Or the same, we just didn't know.

Like, we didn't know. Like, we didn't know. And so we started running well. So Mark's like, well, damn, man, like, I earned some respect, you know, because he saw what I was doing and, you know, and liked the way I was doing it, and so he started wanting to work together. What was it like working with Buddy Parrott? It was awesome.

Yeah. Best years of my life from a competitive standpoint. How so? Because he was a... You had Frank. Frankie was... We did. But Buddy was...

When you went racing with Buddy, you were going to have fun. And you were going to have fun, and it was you versus the world. And Buddy let me do... the first conflict we got into, he wanted to move at Trader Arms, and I didn't want to at Bristol. And I left and came back, when I came back, the Trader Arms were being moved. And Buddy and I, on Pitt Row, we had it out.

You know, and we had it out. And so that was our, but that was good for us, right? That was, and so I'm like, all right, man, if you're 100% believe, if you're willing to fight me over this, that's how we're going to do it. I don't think it's right, but that's what we're going to do. But he would rally the troops.

He didn't, he knew, what he didn't know, right? He didn't pretend to be something he wasn't. He, you know, he was the guy that hired the people and demanded they do their job and made them have fun and just, man, he was just, he's just a hell of a good person. Yeah. And he was just so much fun. Pretty jealous of you, have an opportunity to work with him.

It was phenomenal. Yeah. It was phenomenal. Just because, and it's not about him knowing what right rear shock to put on the car. It's about him knowing what kind of person you need to have to put the right rear shock on the car. You know what I'm saying? That makes a good crew cheese.

That's what Steve was. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, they are the personalities, all of that. They're so alike. They are so alike. Your Steve LaTart experience was my buddy paired experience, 100%. Do you know buddy well?

Not well. You're jealous of him because you... I know his boy's a little better like Todd and Brad. But I'd been an in... admire of buddy parrot you know just because he was a figure in the history of the sport one of the more respected crew chiefs and I just always wondered he's and we saw his name on that card this week you know the the 71 card Harry Hyde uh oh that's right I guess like the name of the court on those quartered I'm like damn this is a stal in stout name's right there yeah

that was good all right so Mitch and Harrison earlier in the conversation um Harrison is in Xfinity series now working with Joe Gibbs racing and you've been a part of helping him sort of progress through his early career in motorsports. How do you parent? How do you know when to get out of your own way and how do you know when to step in? What's that experience been like for you? Because you're right in the middle of it. Yeah. So, you know, as a parent, you want to protect your children from things, right? Especially when they're really young. And the older they get, I think the more you realize, or I've realized that I learned

an awful lot by screwing up, you know. 100%. And I also had parents who let me screw up. You know, I have a dad that bought me a late model and knew nothing. You know, he was, someone said I was a spoiled kid because he bought me the late model, but in his way, he was teaching me, right? So my parenting has been with him and my daughter really both is to give them some guidance, right? But ultimately you teach them and you, but they have to be their own people.

So with Harrison at this point, I do, I try really hard to talk about a lot of things other than racing. You know, I want to be his dad. I want to be, I want to be his dad. and I don't want to be the guy saying, man, you know, you coulda, you shoulda, you know, I don't want to be that guy. Now there's times that I do, you know, but I'm, I try to be more, I try to look out for his best interest from a business standpoint, you know, because I've been there, done that. He has zero, you know, when you're 19, he just turned 19, when you're 19 years old, just graduated from high school, there's no way in the world you can know the things

you need to know, right? And in regard to business and having conversations with team owners and general managers and all those things that you have to do. And he's doing it at 19. Yeah. Like I did it at 30, right? And so I work really hard for him on that and work really hard with him with his partners to make sure they're getting out of the relationship what they need. But, you know, with Harrison, I try to be his dad. I really, really try hard to be his dad. How do you balance being, like not being too much of his buddy? You know what I mean? That's not hard. Yeah. Like, I, I, um, that's just not hard for me because I, I know, I know that I'm the dad. And I know that the older they get the more, what's the word, the more equal we become. Does that make sense? Yeah.

So when they're six, you have 95% authority, right? When they're 60 and you're 85, you have none. Slowly lose it. Yes, you slowly lose it and you have to relinquish it, or they'll take it. Yeah. One way or another. So there's nothing, there's nothing in your heart or mind going. I just, you know, there's not a part of you that wants so bad for them to like you. I want them to respect me. Yeah. Right. I want my kids and you and you to respect me.

I would rather, I would rather leave a conversation with you saying, you know, I just completely disagree with him. But then you say, man, that guy is cool and he's an idiot, right? I want people's respect. So I would rather, and sometimes that means having the difficult conversation, sometimes that means being the guy in the room that has to say things that no one else would say. Sometimes that means no one to shut up, right? I want their respect more than I want their friendship.

I think you got the respect. One of the reasons why is because of something that you've spearheaded just recently. You might have heard it over the weekend up in the booth during the race when Jeff goes to talk to the drivers while they're in the car. while they're in the car, he says, hey, it's the Booth Boys. All right. And that's something new that Jeff's spearheaded, and it was to support the folks in the Bahamas

after the hurricane that recently went through there, and you've teamed up with Rubicon, Team Rubicon, to put something very special together. We've teamed up. Well, we've teamed up. I want to say that you have been the creator of this vision. Yeah, how did it start? I'm curious.

Tell us why. Well, it started, it's kind of weird. It kind of started with your dad. This is going to sound a little crazy. So I've always loved boats, and your dad loved boats. And we would talk about that. And so he introduced me to the Bahamas and all the things down in the Bahamas. And to the point, so Kim and I were, we charged this little boat.

when we were going down there as your dad came into my motorhome. I told him what I was doing. And the next week, your dad comes into my motorhome with my itinerary. Like, he had written down my... Every time. Right?

I mean, he had... So he comes on, you know, open the door, and there's Dale standing there. I'm like, what the hell? This might not be good or it might be great. I don't know which. And so he comes in and literally, he has a notepad

and he has a notepad. And he lays in the floor of my motorhome, like on his side, and he has planned my week. Like, I'm talking about you go to this marina, you see this guy, you eat here on Monday, you do this on Tuesday. Wednesday night, this is where, like, the whole thing. And to clarify, you didn't ask for any of this advice or? No, not like that. I did say, hey, man, what's a cool place to go. Okay.

Yeah, something like that is. Not what to have at lunch at the hot. Yeah, what to order, where to sit. Pink Sands Resort at 12 o'clock and the waitress that you need to get, not to that extent. So, Kelman, I went on that trip, and I just, I completely head over hills, fell in love with the Bahamas and the people and the lifestyle. And then through that, Kelman I ended up against Kim's wishes, and your dad talked to my wife. wife into letting me buy a boat. Your dad said to Kim, you know, he grabbed her on pit road, and he knew we were having this

kind of internal battle. He grabbed my wife. He said, you know, Kim, you know, you only hear once. Like, you know what I mean? Like, go do it. Go do it. Your kids are young. You can do it now.

Like, go do it. Just go. And so she relented. And we bought this boat. And through that, we spent with our kids, we spent this incredible amount of time in the Bahamas. and have just come to appreciate the natural beauty, the people, all of that. And so when that storm came through, you know, you're watching on the news, and I'm like, man,

I know those places and I know people live there. And I know the infrastructure is not what we are accustomed to in any form of fashion, which is part of the greatness of it, right? but in these times where you have this major natural disaster I'm sitting there thinking man there there's no way that they are going to be able to handle this without a lot of help and and so through that I went to went to all the guys in the booth and said hey man

would you all rally around and let's create something and we all kind of got our heads together and talked about it and you came up with with the booth boys concept and oh you did for better or worse okay boys with a Z which we need to trademark that real quick okay we'll do it so

so I so you know we released that video and we teamed up with team Rubicon a lot of that was because of the Junior Foundation and what they've done with Team Rubicon then Rick and I went down last week and worked harder than I've ever worked in my life

oh my God and the discharging construction was worse than I thought. Oh, was it? Yeah, it was worth it. So I, so, so Bobby Labani and Jimmy Maycar and I, a few, I'm guessing two weeks.

I actually talked to Bobby about this last night. He was thinking 10 days. We went to 9-11, went to ground zero. And we went up there to, inconspicuously, no one knew we were going. Jimmy Maycar had a relationship with the fire department in New York. And we're going to fire stations and police stations and visiting because they've been, you know, their people have been killed and they've lost so many of them.

We're just going up there to say hi and tell them we're thinking of them and no media, no nothing. Don't want anybody to know we're doing it. We're in this fire station and Osama bin Laden's pictures on the TV and they're talking about him on the news and there's a guy in there cooking lunch and he starts screaming and cussing at the TV and he's, I mean, irate. And he looks at Bobby and Jimmy and I and demands that we go to nine to ground zero. I mean, demands that we go because, you know, in his world, the world doesn't understand the magnitude of the destruction, right? And he wants us to see it and he wants us to relay it. So to do that, we had to get permission. Like we go in there. We ended up getting us permission and I don't want to go. I mean, I'm just telling you, I didn't want to go because I knew what was there.

And, well, I thought I knew what was there. So we end up going and I'm nervous as hell about going. And we go through never in my life that I experienced something that felt like wartime. We go through fully automatic weapons secured areas. I mean, it's, and we literally walk where George Bush, you know, one day, you know, these people that did this will hear from us. We were right there. Stood with the bullhorn. Yes.

You were talking about that speech, yeah. And stood there and cried. And so that moment was something that always stuck into my. has been ingrained in me, that moment was a moment that in my life was one of the biggest moments because of the people that were killed and the people that were innocent victims and the destruction and what it meant to our world that this force had done this. And I'm standing there on the site with Bobby and Jimmy and I'm crying. And so I leave there and this thing is ingrained in me about the destruction that could be caused.

And then Rick and I go and I get those. same feelings about this is for natural disaster versus a terrorist attack completely different but the death the destruction the all those are the same even though this is a natural disaster and 9-11 was just utter and complete you know in this you know how many square block area this was miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and it's horrible like it's horrible what those people down there are going through and having to that that that those islands they they they have to have tourism who the hell is going to go there until it gets rebuilt that's their economy that's everything so that's all this happens so so because you can't have one without the

other so that team Rubicon um the three days that Rick and I spent with team Rubicon was just incredible experience because of a group of people, all volunteers, right, two weeks. So they're deployed for two weeks, all right? Living in a place ward would exist very well, but most people wouldn't. Sleeping on a cop. No one's bitching. No one's complaining. I mean, they volunteered to do two weeks of work that you wouldn't do to get paid to do.

Right. You know, and God, man, it was a hell of a... experience and the work that are doing down there is just think about this man you you you got to get a you got to get a clinic open so people can get health care you got to get the roads cleared i mean they're there getting roads cleared so people can access stuff um working with working with people so they can eat like how do they get to places that are feeding them there's one world food organization that's feeding the whole island i mean it's crazy 500 gallons a day for the whole while on the fuel.

I mean, it's nuts. And so I hate I went, and I'm glad I went. Does that make sense? And you guys went directly. You were, were you embedded with Team Rubicon? We were embedded with Team Rubicon. And Team Rubicon, just to confirm and everybody, I don't know who knows about Team Rubicon, but their retired military servicemen, most of them are.

There's also police officers, 9-1-1-responders, There's an array. And a lot of people are working. Most of them are working that take two weeks off. Think about this. They take two weeks off and go down to do these volunteer. I mean. Humanitarian belief efforts.

Wow. Crazy. Team Rubicon. I've had an experience with them in Florida with a hurricane that came through there over the last couple of years. One of the things that I was most impressed with is they're there long after, they're there now, like the, you know, they're there long after the, the news coverage is over and months and months later, while those areas that are affected are still

in need, they're there, they're still there. And, you know, you want to know who's responsible for helping some, a country like that, get back on their feed. It's, it's people like Team Rubicon. And so, man, I thought it was a, you know, I knew, that you were passionate about the Bahamas. And I thought that it was just such a great idea to get involved. But I didn't know that your vision would be this impactful and that we would all get to share and being a part of it. So I'm glad that you're doing what you're doing on your own,

but I'm also glad that you were able to include us and your friends to be a part of it. And I've enjoyed my relationship. with Team Rubicon and this is just teaching me more and keeping us involved and spreading their message and getting folks to help support Team Rubicon. So, man, we appreciate that. We're going to talk more about Team Rubicon here in a bit. In a little bit, yeah. Yeah.

Well, we couldn't be here without the Junior Foundation and the support that the Junior Foundation has provided. Like the, you know, the infrastructure, the effort, all the things. that that that foundation is provided for just this cause, much less all the other things that you guys are working on, has a real impact on people's lives. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's, I think one of the greatest compliments somebody can say is, man, you're impacting people's lives positively.

Yeah. And that's, the junior foundation is incredible in that, in the work that it does. Yeah. I just can't imagine for you personally, your love for the Bahamas and how much you've enjoyed it over the years is going to change, you know, tenfold once they are back on their feet, once you are able to go back down there and visit and enjoy the folks and the food and everything they have to offer, your experience and connection to them will be completely different than it's ever been.

So I'm excited for them and for you, but me and Amy just went over this year to visit and, you know, dad's love for the Bahamas and how much he enjoyed being down there means a lot to me as well. So pretty awesome, man. I appreciate you coming out today. Thank you. This has been fun.

I appreciate you doing it. I had a lot of notes. We didn't get to all of it. We didn't get that, yeah. That's the point. We want to get you back on. We hope this shows around a little bit longer. I'm sure that you can come back on

and tell us even more, because I had a lot more I wanted to talk to you about, but we got to some of the important stuff. Thank you. That's fun. Thanks for having. Yes, sir. That was a great interview with Jeff Burton.

It's nice to be teammates on the road with old Jeff. And you know what else I enjoy about being on the road? My quip. Oh, that's right. I got one, too. This thing's really convenient. Oh, man, it's totally convenient. Small package?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Totally. That's all you got. No. You've got it there, Mike. I got it here. Where is it, Mike?

Right next to you. Where? At the car. I can't even see it. The car. Oh, it's so small. So small and convenient. I'm sorry.

You're right. You did tell you. Tell me this yesterday. This is it. Your refill pack. Is this Dale's refill pack? Yeah, man. Okay.

So, yeah, you got a refill pack coming. Let me check his thing out. Yeah, come on. I mean, look, it's all sealed up nicely. When I'm holding this package, I'm thinking, this is very clean, very sterile. I'm going to open this up. What's inside? What are the contents of this package?

Well, there appears to be a brand new bottle of toothpaste, mint in flavor. And then the bristles. Then a new toothbrush head. Yeah, this is the refill part. Which I like this. So when the one thing I like about this toothbrush head is the length of it, like the bristles. You get a lot of bristles here, right? Yeah.

I feel like if there's more bristles, I'm doing a little more cleaning. Some of the electrical toothbrush I've used had these tiny little heads on, man. I'm thinking like, I don't know. Is that doing everything? They get to just those little round heads that, you know, just are moving. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Right.

I don't know. Right. Do it enough. Is it doing enough? Well, I don't know. I think that'd be a question for your dentist. It's dainty, small, doesn't seem like it could get the job done. So this thing, plenty of bristles, got a lot of surface here, going to clean a lot of teeth.

All right? Oh, here we go. I knew it. I knew it. What? Yeah. Oh, you think I'm talking about Mike's big teeth? That's where you think this is going.

You guys need to be a little bit nicer. Y'all need to be a little bit nicer. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It didn't even occur to him, Leah, that I have.

Incredible teeth Incredible teeth Well I'm gonna tell you Did I have the bristles Head for you there Mike All right now You didn't have to go We were doing good right here

They'd make a bigger size for Mike But listen Can I just say this It is nice though I think every three months They come in and give you a new replacement with the toothpaste And the new toothbrush head

Because I think we've said here before Nothing is worse When those toothbrushes get wore out And people still brushing with them it's not effective. They are going to make sure that this is still effective brush by giving you

replacement heads. And you don't have to think about it. That's right. I mean, there's a little... Have you thought about what actually makes a toothbrush better,

Mike? Is it the industrial strength power of a toothbrush? Well, you know, I never went that deep into it, but you know what? I mean, I think that you're probably on to something there.

Is it the claims of trendy ingredients? Oh, I definitely. Multiple modes? Like, I don't even care about the modes. No, me neither. Just work. I want to turn it on Right.

And it goes, I don't need a mode. No. I don't need different variants. No. No. Losers care about that. Well, if you ask your dentist, Mike,

they'll tell you that it's less about the brush and more about how you use it. So it really is you. You're the ingredient. You're the special ingredient. Thank you. So it's up to you whether you get them teeth clean or not. Not the, not the trendy ingredients or the modes.

And that's where Quip comes in. Quip's sensitive vibrations with a built-in timer, guide gentle brushing for the, Dennis recommended two minutes with 30-second pulses, ensuring it even clean. I like those. Quips automatically delivers brush heads to you every three months, as you said, Mike. That's right. So you've got clean new bristles right on schedule.

The sleek, intuitive design is simple to use and comes with a travel cap that doubles as a mirror mount, really. Yeah, I don't use that as an air mount. Nope. It's awesome, man. You just stick it on your mirror. I'm sure it is. I'm just saying I don't use it. I like the fact that the.

I can encase the bristle part because I, you know, you brush, it's all nasty and wet. Of course, you try it off. But I'm a little weird about drying my bristles off with a towel from like a hotel or something. That's it. I don't know about that, right? So now I'm wiping it on my shirt. Either way, but I mean, the end result is it's going back in my bag, my toiletry bag, open, uncovered. So now I love that you get this little cap that covers the bristles.

These thoughtful features make brushing something you actually want to do twice every day. Good habits matter to live a healthier life. So help form fresh oral health habits with quip. That's a damn mouthful. Yeah. Pun intended. Quip starts at just $25 and you'll get your first refill free at getquip.com slash Dale Jr. There's a simple way to help support our show and start brushing better,

but you have to go to getcwip.com. get quipp.com slash Dale Jr. to get your first refill free. Go there right now. Get quip.com slash Dell Jr. If you enjoy that conversation with Jeff Burton about Team Rubicon, then you're going to love what Mountain Dew has helped me put together

for these next three episodes. Mountain Dew is championing the power of doing. In this day and age, there's a lot of talk, but it's the doing that leaves a mark. Mountain Dew knows that no matter who you are, one person or a group of people. You can make an impact through your actions. That is why Mountain Dew and I teamed up with Team Rubicon to champion selfless men and women who truly embody what it means to do the do.

To learn more about Team Rubicon's work, go to Team Rubicon USA.org. And if you want to learn more about the amazing people that make up this fine organization, make sure to tune in for the next three weeks. All right guys, the Team Rubicon relationship is a great one. Yeah. We're glad to continue that. I didn't know how that was going to continue. you know, it's sort of organic how it started on through social media. You remember? Yes. Sort of reaching out to them through social media. And then connecting that with Mountain Dew and so forth. And now we've got this relationship that's continuing through many different variables

with Jeff Burton and the Bahamas and so forth and the booth boys. And so pretty awesome to be able to continue that. But yeah, that was a wild weekend in NASCAR, Talladega delivered. I was really shocked at the two and three wide racing that's. sustained itself throughout the entire race. Typically, we see the guys get up on the high side and sort of chill out for a while. There's a lull in the action at pretty much most of the Talladega races. Not this one.

For whatever reason, the new motor rules as far as a tapered spacer, they've gotten away from the restricted plates. And there is a difference, apparently, between the two and how the car responds. And also this giant-ass spoiler on the back of the car. As you so eloquently put it on the broadcast. Yeah, it's just sometimes you're in the broadcast and you're comfortable. Yeah. And you're honest all the time. If you're honest all the time, sometimes you're going to speak the way you speak to your friends.

And that's one of the things that we hear a lot from our fans and supporters is that, you know, it sounds like the broadcast is just, you know, just friends hanging out. Like they're sitting at the bar, listening to their buddies talk about the race. And sometimes those worlds sort of collide and they merge. and that's kind of what happened there is I got sort of carried away. I hate the visual look of that spoiler. It's ugly and it's huge and obnoxious. There's no one in the world right now that could argue with the fact that it is the most obnoxious, ugly rear spoiler.

Now, the wing was pretty ugly too, but in spoiler terms, this has to be an all-time low for NASCAR. but it's effective in what it does. It creates big runs, and it has a role in, if you like the racing, it has a role in that. It plays a role in giving you the racing that you enjoy, but it's ugly. And it's big ass. And it's annoying. And so I think when I was saying that, that was me sort of popping off.

I'm surprised you went this long, frankly, everybody tells you, be yourself, be yourself. Man, you win a year and a half without saying big ass. You know, on a telecast, I was impressed. Well, I thought I was in real trouble when I did it because we're on NBC, the big network. It's okay, I guess, if you're on NBCSN to let one slip because Kyle Petty has said, hell and a few other things on the NASCAR America shows and whatnot. So I text my boss, Sam, immediately from the booth while we're standing there, I said, I cussed, that's unfortunate.

And he said, it's not the first time that you've cussed on national television for NBC at Talladega. referencing the time I said shit in 2004. So he was, that let me know right away. It was all right and didn't have anything to worry about or wasn't going to get a stern talking to. I just, and when I said that on Twitter, people's reaction was, you didn't have to apologize for that? Well, it's not that I felt like I needed to apologize

as much as I never just want to disappoint my boss, right? He's hired me and he has this vision or expectation of what I'm going to be doing every day. And boy, do I don't want to let them down. But anyways, it worked out. Everybody seemed to get a laugh out of it. And anyhow, we had a great race. End of the race. So let's cover it, man.

Coming down to the finish, the 12 car of Ryan Blaney goes, fakes to the outside, then goes to the inside of Ryan Newman. They come down the front straightaway. Newman gave him about seven-eighths of a car link. There wasn't a whole car link there for Ryan to go through. Ryan was intent on staying above the yellow line. They made contact. It turned Ryan's car sideways.

He corrected the car. Ended up at one point below the yellow line and then crossed the finish line. I think fans are drawn a parallel to the truck race where they penalized solder. Yep. They did not penalize Newman. NASCAR had a reason for doing that. And I think the, you know, I don't, right or wrong, you know, I don't really, I used to years ago go, that was a bad call.

This is a good call. I don't even do that anymore. I don't even do that anymore. I'm far, I'm past that and on to do we need a line rule. Do we even need it? Right? If this, like, so this is the situation for me. The yellow line rule keeps coming up.

And with the way the cars draft and race now, more than often, we're going to have cars trying to pass, coming through the tribal on the very last lap at Talladega. That's just because of the way the rules are. There's always going to be a car trying to pass another one coming to that position of the racetrack. And we're going to, or down the back straightaway, whatever, whatever it is. And even during the race.

the yellow line rule seems to be coming up race after race after race. We talk about it at some point in February there's a dispute, there's a controversy, whether it trucks, Xfinity, and it happened again this past weekend. My reaction to that isn't what can we do about the rule. My reaction to that is let's get rid of it. Let's get it off the freaking table. Hell yeah. What the hell? Why do we put ourselves in a position?

Why do we want to go into next year with the same opportunity to have the same controversy, to have the same stink, to have the same disputes, to have the fans in an uproar? Why do we want to keep going back? We got to just get rid of it. Just get rid of it. Can we at least recognize what was the point of the rule to begin with? Let's start there. The point of the rule was to do what?

The point of the rule really was they, they, they, felt like that cars would go below the line and then trying to merge back into racing traffic, it was creating crashes, right? Right. Creating accidents. Now, we didn't, the line, we had a lot of accidents Sunday, tons. Yeah. None created by the yellow line.

That's true. Right. Pile ups. Plenty of action. Plenty of crashes. More than anybody could ever expect. It was carnage. It was.

None created by the yellow line. If anything, maybe taking that yellow line rule away, might cause less wrecks, if anything. I don't believe that it will add to the carnage. I just feel like that, you know, allow the drivers to police themselves is probably in some situations where it's a judgment call. And the yellow line rule apparently is a judgment call because it's hard for, you know, NASCAR has to get into the, middle of intent, how severe was the block, all this nonsense. It's better, I think, in those situations just to let the drivers police themselves. If the drivers want to try to pass on the apron and be daring and be dangerous and

be courageous, allow it, let it happen. Yep. What's the harm, right? Well, there's a nature of that. They're already crashing. Yeah. Without, you know. So, what, go ahead.

If you want to dispute that. I don't know if I want to dispute it. I remember when the rule got implemented, and it was exactly what you just said. It was to, quote unquote, protect the drivers from themselves. Because we know that rules basically happen because there was a precedent or an incident that happened. And so they look at it and say, okay, we have to act on it and let's implement a rule because if, you know, somebody must have, I don't remember what happened, but somebody must have come up in traffic and caused it.

Now, I don't think at any time NASCAR, felt like that was going to solve the crashing problem. They took one basically of 10 different ways drivers can crash themselves and tried to eliminate one. Did it work? I don't know. I don't know. I don't have a problem with the yellow line rule coming up every year because I think that

drivers will take advantage of any opportunity that you got. If there's no yellow line rule, they will go down there to try to pass and advance their position. Right, right, right. So. So, then NASCAR doesn't have to jump in and make a decision. Then we don't have to have a stink about the end of the truck race versus the cup race. 100%. We don't have to.

None of that is a conversation anymore. I didn't even see, I didn't think any of those two were very similar at all. I thought they were definitely different. I think that I end up being is you drivers would know more about that than anybody else. And so if you felt like that that's something that you don't feel less safe, you know, by doing. doing it, then you drivers can make that decision. And, you know, there's a lot of drivers that don't want to race at Talladega to begin with. The yellow line rule or not.

Well, I'm not a driver in a sense of any, you know, so I don't have a driver's perspective. I'm not going to have a driver's perspective. I'm a viewer. I'm a fan. I want less, I want less mud in the face of the sport. I got you. From a, from a credibility standpoint. You know, so going forward, if this is creating.

a credibility issue, and this is a bad optic for the sport, let's just get rid of it and allow the drivers to handle it. Look, you know, you're going to have drivers that are not willing to lift, that are going to dive onto that apron and create a mess. They're going to have to stand in front of their peers responsible for those repercussions. So in that sense, that's what I mean by the drivers policing themselves. you've got a guy out there that makes a mistake, goes on the apron and creates a problem for everybody.

He's going to have to think about that the next time he's in that situation because the drivers are going to let him know that he made a mistake. All right, and that they don't think that what he did was the right thing to do. And over time, things will work themselves out.

Drivers will understand what the etiquette is where NASCAR doesn't have to react, doesn't have to jump in and try to save the drivers from themselves. And so, I don't know. I just, if it's any kind of a shame or embarrassment on the sport as a whole for its credibility and growth and future, I hate it. I don't like it. And you're already going, are you saying that it is?

I feel like that any time there's dispute where the, if the race ends and the fans have a negative opinion about a choice NASCAR had to make or a decision NASCAR had to make about the end result of the race, we got to issue. I got you. You want the, it doesn't need to be any ambiguity on how the race winner was determined. Yeah. Period. Other than crossing the finish line first. Right. And so similar to where the NFL's having problems even from last night's Monday night football game with the Lions about disputes about the penalties and how it's costing teams games, right? I want NASCAR to get out of the judgment call business. I'm sure NASCAR would love to be out of that. They would love to not have to make judgment calls or make any decisions. So I don't know if we, I'm telling you.

I feel like it won't happen tomorrow. It might not happen next year. But that yellow line rule is not forever. One day it's going to be gone. One day NASCAR and somebody's going to realize, look, this is, this is something we just don't even need to get in the middle of anymore. Let the drivers handle it and be done with it. You make a good argument, actually.

And I didn't know where I knitted out on it. but you make the point of it's not about, say, look, everybody's intentions on rules are always good. You know, there's restrict your plates on the motors because, why? Teams made those cars so fast, couldn't keep them on the track. So you've got to restrict them. Does everybody love restricts plates? No. Does it make a better show if they were off?

Yeah. Would they be flying off the track? Yeah. But they did it to protect. So like the intentions of these rules are good. You make a very solid point of let's find a solution that doesn't leave NASCAR having to make judgment calls where the winner of the race actually didn't cross the line first. And that is a fair argument because nobody wants to go pay money or watch a race or devote your time

and not actually know who won the race after they just watched a guy win, right? And that's fair. I think they made rule changes just over the past few years to eliminate a lot of that, right? You know, you didn't want to go on Tuesday or Wednesday going, who won the race? Oh, somebody got the wind stripped. They eliminated that. Maybe it's something that NASCAR can work towards. And if it's eliminating the yellow line rule, so be it.

I just, I work, there's just so many drivers out there that I, if I'm racing, I wouldn't want them going to the apron and cutting back in traffic because I have no confidence that they know how to do it or would do it without taking everyone out. But I can't say that that's the only way they would take out the whole field either. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I will say one thing that irks me about it that nobody, I've heard nobody talk about is, okay, if you, if that Johnny Sauter deal with Riley Herbst happened with six to go and

they made that little bit of contact and they came back and they were in the same position, it wouldn't have been a penalty. But because it was on the last lap with that yellow line rule, now you got a guy that was in third or second or so there winning, and Johnny Sauter is relegated to 14th place. How do you know it wouldn't have been a penalty? Because they didn't advance their position in the block. Oh. It wouldn't have been a penalty.

If that was six to go, that would have just been a race and they... I don't know. They might have penalized Johnny for blocking. They've done it before in the middle of the race. See, yeah, I hear what you're saying, but you're being subjective on it. I'm being subjective, yes. For sure. So they could have penalized.

My whole point is I don't want to hear this whole conversation ever again. So get rid of the rule. I don't want to debate it. I don't want to wonder what happened six, you know, if it was halfway through the race, no disrespect. I like your point. But I don't want to argue it. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to stand in the booth and watch it.

I don't want to have to wait for NASCAR to view it. Right. None of that crap. Take it out. We should be talking about the run that Newman had with Denny Hamlin pushing and Blaney. I mean, because there was a sick race. You're right. Sick finish.

I totally get your point. No, for sure. Because that was a heck of a race, a heck of a finish. Didn't, you know, Newman shot out of a cannon. Oh, man. The rules, I think the rules that we, you know, the rules, if the rules are black and white, you know, if there's a pure line of right and wrong, such as intolerance in a motor and, and heights on a car, you know, or whatever.

You know, a black and right rule is one thing, but any judgment call, man, that's just bad for business. All right, this isn't just an ad read. It is an advertisement, but it's a little more personal, Mike. That's right. I love to find out about my ancestry, and it's something I've been doing for a really long time. I can't, I don't know.

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It's called Door Bumper Clear. It's going to be a big one this week, guys. I mean, you know, coming out of Talladega. Clint Boyer's got some work to do. I'm sure Brett and TJ will have a big conversation about all of that. So make sure you catch that. Available now, the paperback edition of Dale Jr.'s New York Times bestselling book, Racing to the Finish.

You can go to Dale Jr.com slash book right now and go ahead and purchase that. I got one good Apple rating review, rating and review this week. it came from Austin BMX. I want to read it to you guys. Man, the Bubba Wallace interview really hit home for me. I never had heard someone talk about a situation any closer than mine. I'm 28 now and experienced a similar story with my father about six years ago. And even as a young adult, it's just not easy to experience something like this happening to your family.

So I gained a whole new level of respect for Bubba talking so openly about his personal life. And I think that a lot of feedback last week. would suggest the same thing, is that Bubba Wallace, whether you agreed with him or didn't agree with him on how he handled the Alex Bowman situation, his transparency and his openness about the family situations was really endearing, and I really appreciated that for him. And by the way, our TV show typically comes out on Tuesdays, but this week because of the rain delay, it's going to be on Friday at 6 p.m. Eastern on NBC Sports Network. So that show, Jeff Burton Show, Friday, 6 p.m. Eastern. Between those practices. And that's White Flag.

We've got some odd history. In 1988, NASCAR held an exhibition race, the Goodyear 500K at Calder Park in Melbourne, Australia. Weeks before the event, teams put their race cars, tools, and spare parts in shipping containers and loaded them onto boats for the trip to the land down under. However, one team took the term down under to a new extreme. The team owned by California driver St. James Davis tried to save money by also putting their engine builder in the shipping container with the race car. The slow trip by boat from Los Angeles to Australia approximately 8,000 miles meant that the crew member would have to spend the next three weeks locked in a small dark metal box. According to a report by Chris Economacky, he was given a sluble.

sleeping bag and a pillow for comfort inside the car. For food, the team gave him two cans of spam, two boxes of twinkies, a box of cookies, three bags of candy, and little else. What about water? For three weeks. I'm certainly he had some water. After three days of hiding, the engine builder couldn't take it any longer and walked onto the boat's deck where he was arrested by the captain of the vessel.

He was delivered to Australian immigration officials who had. held him for two days and then released him into the custody of the racetrack. The crew member named Mitch then worked for the track during the race to pay for a return ticket back home. After all the trouble, the 22 Buick that he planned to work on driven by frugal owner, St. James Davis, completed only two laps in the race and finished in last place. Oh, my God. It's insane.

Ridiculous. I think you should be ashamed, Mr. Davis. Yeah, St. James, Uncle St. James. He's bringing bad, he's bringing bad juju on the Davis name. Yeah, that's the way I feel. I feel. How much do you have to have the drink to be like at night in the race shop, man? Like, hey, man, let's just put you in that cargo.

Man, they must have been strapped for cash. Must have been expensive to get everybody over there. Well, if you're going to finish two, just, you know, complete two laps, might be consider just not sending the engine builder next time. A lot of money. Great show. Thanks for tuning in. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

Dirty Mo.