The Dale Jr. Download - 305 - Mark Martin (Part One): I Race, That's What I Do

Episode Date: July 7, 2020

Finally! NASCAR Hall of Famer Mark Martin joins Dale Earnhardt Jr. on the Download for the first time. The former Hendrick Motorsports teammates dive into Mark's meteoric rise from local dirt racer to NASCAR front-runner. They discuss how his dad influenced his passion for racing, including letting him drive a tractor trailer at the age of 12 and the time his father did donuts around a police car in a parking lot. Then, the Batesville, Arkansas native talks about his biggest influences in the short track days and the time that a lack of a right rear spring sprung him to the top of the speed charts. Mark reflects on his relationship with fellow competitors and why he was comfortable sharing his setups with anyone that asked. The veteran opens up about his journey to NASCAR, then losing everything, and how that failure made him who he is today. Dale Jr. and co-host Mike Davis are shocked by never before heard stories of watching races in Dale Earnhardt's basement and nearly ending up in the 28 car. Lastly, Martin covers how he originally connected with car owner Jack Roush and gets deep about the rocky start to their long relationship. The ratings were up as NASCAR returned to NBC and Dale Jr. went back to work in the booth. He reveals deep thoughts about his return to work and finding a purpose in life. Plus, the DJD gang weighs in on the first NASCAR-IndyCar doubleheader. They learn that the late Charlie Daniels loved the Xfinity Series and with the help of a fan, ponder the idea of triple digit car numbers during Ask Jr. Presented by Xfinity. Dale also learns how being stuck in an elevator can cause a driver to have a nightmare scenario in this week's Odd History. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Yeah, I feel hot. Maybe it's because I got a long-sleeve shirt on. I think so. So I can get this guy's temperature. Oh, that's right. I'm 97.5 every day. I don't know. Not if you're a little hot,

hot and sweaty looking. Did you just come down with fever? He was just watching cops. You're looking kind of clammy. Did you just come down with a fever? No. What is the cops thing? I missed that joke.

Come on, man. Why are you sweating? I was watching cops. Oh, geez. I don't get it. I don't either. Really? I'm trying.

I want to get it. I really want to get it, but I'm struggling to get it. Maybe Leah? Step brothers? I, oh, no. Why are you sweating so much? Oh, okay. I was watching cops.

Never seen it. Never, don't remember that. I've seen it. Hey, everybody, it's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. download. This is episode 305, in case anybody was counting. We got an awesome guest today. A guy that, I mean, I don't know how long people have been asking for this. For 305 weeks.

Yeah. It's been a long time. We've been trying to get Mark on the show. Mark Martin's going to join us. You know, when he retired the last time. He moved out west, and it's just not been, you know, we want to get him in studio, talk to him across the table. Well, we weren't able to do that due to COVID.

We're doing a lot of Zoom calls with our guests. No guests in the studio for the foreseeable future. So we're going to go ahead and bring Mark on the show. It's a great opportunity to do that. So it's going to be a lot of fun. Let's get this show started so we can get to Martin. Yeah, yeah, all team winning. This is a production of Dirty Mo meeting.

Thank you very much. What are you chirping in there? Yeah, I'd have a quibble on that ass. All team winning. All team winning. Yeah, I bring the truck right back. I bring a truck right back. Yeah.

Justin. Mike. James Jason Brian Producer Matthew Dielner Social media Leoval

co-host Mike Davis Who's gonna mess with a squire Hey who's gonna mess with a team I thought when I first met Mike I thought his teeth were fake They were that perfect I'm not lying Did you know that?

I eat chicken and salmon on the road All right I eat chicken for lunch Salmon for dinner Is that right? Yes I am diligent. You are, yeah, discipline.

Uniform and discipline. Yes, you are. Chicken for lunch, salmon for dinner. There's no red meat on the weekend. Chicken for lunch, salmon for dinner. Don't be messing with it. Mm. All right.

But I don't eat salmon for lunch, okay, if something goes wrong. Really close to diarrhea. If something goes wrong with a salmon at lunch, you're screwed the rest of the day. So I love salmon. I'm willing to take that risk. Take that risk. Do wide open now the whole team in it. Going O. T. If it's time on the clock, we won't stop until a whole thing finished.

Whole team winning. Whole team winning. Yeah. Whole team winning. Yeah. Whole team winning. Yeah. Whole team winning. Whole team winning. Whole team winning. All right. Whole team winning. We had kebabs. Chicken for much. Sand for dinner. Don't be messing with it. Don't be messing with.

Oh, my God. That's got to be the best one yet. How long have you been working on that one, Matthew? A little while. Oh, my gosh. I love having our producer back full time. We've been doing this other television show. We've got our producer back, and he comes in hot with salmon and kebabs, baby.

I don't know the tears out of my eyes. That was good, Matthew. You got to make that available to the listeners. They're going to want that. You make it sound like the... I don't know for what, but they'll put it to use. Do you even recall any time we would have even been... talking about those things?

I don't remember a thing about that. I don't know if I was really... Into your... I was really trying to get my point across. I just remember the day I had you do the lines, whole team winning, and you were like, what the hell? I know, I'm like, why am I doing this?

No, I get it. He's tricky. He is. You know, watch that guy. I know it. Well, man, let's get to the show. We had a great weekend at... I want to say at Indianapolis.

I was in Charlotte calling the race. and I'll be honest with you. So first off, amazing weekend. The Indy cars and Xfinity cars on Saturday on the same day, it was great racing, but we also saw a really nice double-digit percentage bump on both the Indy car and the Xfinity series viewership. Listen, I know that there's not a lot of sports on.

I know that. I know that, you know, people are going to say, look, you know, that was all that was on TV. Well, it was July 4th weekend. Yes. People are out there doing what they want to do on July 4th, Saturday, Sunday, hanging out with their friends. We have had a steady from Fox.

We have a 8% improvement on ratings since the return from the COVID break. All right. So if that's the consistent 8% improvement, then I would say the numbers from Saturday, which were in the teens and 20s for Xfinity and Indy car, were an even better number than we could have expected. All right. So I was really pleased with that. And the reason mainly for me that that's great is because I want more doubleheaders.

They may more than likely be double headers with the Cups series instead of the Xfinity series. But as an Xfinity owner, Xfinity series owner, I mean, we will take those numbers every day, happy as we can be. We have needed some good news to take to our partners, our supporters, our sponsors in our series. That's incredible news. So, you know, that's a great number for us, awesome number for IndyCar. Having spent a little bit of time over the last year and a half around that series and in and around those drivers,

those drivers in that series are as they are, they are. is aware of the importance of getting eyeballs and awareness to the series as the industry. And the series are, the president, the people that work in IndyCar, the drivers are in lockstep. That's unusual. And when you talk to them, the drivers are all saying, what can I do? Where can I be? How can I help? What can I do? They're doing all the media. They don't turn anything down. they're physically going to places to promote their series and promote their schedule during race weekends when we're not in COVID

is quite ridiculous with the responsibilities that the IndyCar drivers have. I watched it and I've been very impressed with it. They got to love that number that they saw as far as viewership for the network. So they're going to want the, they're going to want the doubleheader again. All right. So that was a win for every. everybody. Hopefully we're going to see that more. Even this year, I don't know what the rule. I don't know what the schedules are. I don't know what everybody else has got on their

plate. I don't know what IndyCar's plans are. NASCAR's plans are certainly fluid, but with the states changing, you know, what they're doing. What they're allowing. Right. As far as, uh, you know, our sporting events, we, we can't really set a schedule. So, anyhow, uh, that was very, that was very positive and I think that that certainly bodes well for us to see more double-heder events next year and beyond. It's sort of broken the glass and made it really a cool thing to talk about amongst the series. The one hurdle in the past was a bit, maybe a bit of ego. Who was going to be the headliner? Who's going to go first? Who's going to go second? We talked about this last week. We did. And now we've sort of

broken the glass to know to know for sure that there's a huge gain for the series of IndyCar and NASCAR to do it. And you can't turn that down. You can't turn down that opportunity. Okay. Now let's get to Sunday. Sunday. You want to talk about a ratings increase.

Holy moly. All right. So I'm riding down the road with my wife and the ratings hadn't come out yet. And I'm as a broadcaster in a booth, I look for those numbers as soon as they're available, I'm calling my boss. I'm calling other folks at NBC to see if they have information on how we did. I've done that since I started working there. I'm eager to know whether... That's interesting.

I didn't even know that about it. Yeah, I'm eager to know whether we're improving. What's the trend? I do that with our own TV show as well during the weeks when the Dale Jr. download airs on NBCSN. Hey, how do we do? You know, where were you the best? I want to be the best, right? I want to win.

This is how I win outside the race car is by, ratings or succeeding with our viewers creating something people love. So I told Amy driving down the road, I say, you know, Fox has been flat at about 8% above last year on average. Which is good. Yeah, it's a good number. Anything good is good. You know, we've been trending down, down, down, down for years. You know, things have kind of been going upward, upward, but very slightly. So we have to be measured about our expectations. And I told Amy, I said, man, if it's flat, I'll be so happy. If it's up five, that'll be amazing.

Yeah. It was July 4th weekend. People are out doing. She said, you know, maybe on Sunday, everybody was hung over. Had nothing better to do to watch race. But that was her. That was her wit. No, it was totally, totally.

I get it, too. But there's a valid point in that typically holidays, any type of content or entertainment goes down. Because holidays, people are out. They're not in front of the TV. Sure. And I know that, you know, I've read the response to the ratings. I know that we are the only sport. I understand that. But seriously, we have been the only sport. And our trend has been 8%. All right.

So having been the only sport to come back, for the most part, there's been a few others, we've improved 8%. All right. So with that information, you've got to acknowledge that that 40%,000, you've got to acknowledge that that 46% bump over Indies race last year, and if you want to compare it to Daytona in July, which that's what I would do, I would compare it to the Daytona race in July. Same weekend.

Yes. It's up 30 plus percent. Wow. With a rain delay, which is also a... Oh, yeah. I believe that the Daytona race also might have had one. I can't remember. Of course.

I think that last five in a row have. We had a lightning delay. Yeah, a weather delay, whatever it was. And also, we were on the big network, which really helps, but so was Daytona, I'm sure. Yes, it was. It's an incredible number. I promise you, man, and with all my heart, I was hoping to be flat,

hoping to be plus 5% would have been a really killer deal. You set the ball low and bar low. I was being realistic, to be quite honest with you. So 30 plus percent over July's Daytona, I would have lost that bet every time. Everybody would have never took it. If you're being honest. Was there an underlying anxiety of going down from Fox's 8% increase? There always is some competition there?

Not even competition, but I'm just saying like when you get the torch, you don't want to be the one that, you know, loses the lead. Yeah. Right? And so NBC's taking their first race of the year after all of these crazy times. What if they go back down and it's flat, not to 8%, but zero? Well, how do you feel if that would be awful? That would.

There's all those little anxieties that people probably would think are silly. But, I mean, if you're a competitive person, I don't care what your job is, you're going to make it a competition. You're going to make it, you're going to find something to motivate yourself. If it matters to you, absolutely. I'm straight. The numbers, it matters. Yeah, it does. You find those things that sort of drive you to try your best.

It goes back to Fox this weekend. That'll be interesting to see how the numbers do as we go race this. weekend in Kentucky. It'll be on Fox. So it's sort of a passing of the torch back and forth here. And then finally, after the All-Star race, which will be on Fox as well in Bristol next Wednesday, incredible event. I can't wait to see it. I can't either. You know that number's going to be a nice one. We get it back at Texas for NBC. For the rest of the year. Yeah, for the rest of the year. You know, and I'll be honest with you, man, there's been a lot of great support back and forth between NBC and Fox. that's one of the things that

I think people maybe they know about it, maybe they don't, but NBC pulls for Fox to do well. Absolutely. All right, because if their numbers are great, basically it's like a relay race. We're both on the same team

and we're going to pass that baton mid race. So we need them to have a great run. All right? So when they pass the baton to us, we can continue that trend. And so, you know, I think I think the pressure really, and this is a compliment, the pressure is really on Fox. They start the season.

They start, they have to create the storylines. Momentum. Yeah, they create the momentum. They have a pretty challenging situation being the first to go in the relay race. Yeah. And we kind of get to see the lay of land and the storylines, and we get the batonned with basically the picture painted in front of us. They start with a blank chemist.

It's a very interesting thing. Anyhow, I want to also say, I didn't know how much I needed to get back in that booth. And I don't know if this will make sense, but, man, being stuck at home, not working, not doing anything. It's been great to be with my family, be with my wife, and spend more time with Ila. But to be honest with you, man, it was a, I was losing, I don't know, I was losing part of myself. I didn't even realize it And so, you know, when I got back into the booth I was like, man, I really

I really do need this purpose, right? I really do need this job. I need to be part of a, I need that for myself to be part of a team, part of a puzzle, part of a working mechanical thing that produces something, right? That develops something. And I've always had,

that. I've always had that as a race car driver, part of a race team, part of my dad's company, part of HMS, being a piece, you know, on the chess board, right? And I've always wondered if I need that now. Do I need that? Do I need to keep working? Do I need to, should I just not work and just be with my family and just spend the rest of my life just being a dad? And right now, the answer is absolutely not. When I, well, I had a little break, you know, being that Fox has the race season and you know you really doing a lot of self-reflection sitting at home buckled down with your family throughout all this and I was wondering I was like what what am I doing what do I need to be doing am I doing what I should be doing and yeah I mean

throughout through this weekend it was a very awakening sort of a obvious experience as I was in the booth that this really makes me happy. This really gives me purpose. Everybody needs that in their life, for sure, whether it is being a father. Nothing wrong with that. If you want to be a 24-7 father. Everybody needs a little balance in their life. For sure. My goodness, man, I had no idea. I don't know why that's, I don't know why I need to tell you that, but I had no, it was a really big revelation in the booth this weekend for me personally. It makes sense. And so, And I want to ask you more questions about that. But one thing it does remind me is that, you know, before COVID, if you had

taken a poll out, everybody in the room, like, who enjoys going to the office every day and sitting there from, you know, 9 to 5 or 8 to 5, whatever it is our hours are? And, you know, everybody would be like, no, I'd love to not be in the office. But after two months of being at home, boy, we couldn't wait to get back to the office. We couldn't wait. Show me in office. Yeah. Show me work.

And it's a good reminder. And I think you went through the same experience. You know what? I mean, when you love what you do, and this is a good tell, is when you love what you do, you can't wait to get back to it. And you found that out this weekend. Now, what was the setup like? So how different was it?

And I was curious about y'all's chemistry, which it didn't seem to miss a beat. We were in the booth that we used at Charlotte Murder Speedway. So the environment was identical to what we did. experience at the racetrack. And I could, I have a, I have a screen in front of me, which is the program, which you're seeing at home. I have another screen above that that has timing and scoring and a few other cameras. And I have, you know, my headphones on with my producer in my ear and I can hear the guys.

And the producer is where? Marv is in a truck down on. It's Charlotte. In Charlotte. Okay. Just downstairs. Okay. Below the booth.

It's really similar. It's extremely similar. The only thing we're missing is just being able to look out the window and see in the action. And there's a couple, you know, there's, so that's important because Steve and Burton both love to watch the pit cycles, especially under green flag. They want to be able to see a guy coming to pit road. Say the leaders, there's a race between Harvick and Denny. They're going to pit under green. They want to be able to watch that process of Denny coming down, pit.

road, Harvick then coming down pit road a lap later. They want to watch the blend off of turn two is they're exiting pit road and who's in the lead. They want to explain that, talk about that, tell people what to be watching for, and they can't do that because we don't have that visual and we don't have the opportunity to see as many cameras as we typically can see at a live race. I never really was, or I haven't gotten to the point in my broadcasting history or experience to be able to do that as well as they do it. I'm sitting there basically watching the program, calling the race, just like I've always done. So for me, it was really as comfortable as being at the actual racetrack.

I worried that we wouldn't have the energy because we're not seeing the event live, but the energy was there. We're so excited to be there. It didn't matter. We had plenty of energy. Let's talk about Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy Johnson, you know, news is out there. If you haven't heard, I don't know how you haven't heard it.

Jimmy has COVID and missed the race this weekend. I think everybody's just hoping he's doing well. his wife as well has been tested positive so we're wishing them the best he's explained how challenging and emotional this is in relationship in relation to his kids trying to take care of them feed them they're scared they don't know what's going on with their mommy and daddy and so that's a very very hard to hear as a you know as a parent so we're wishing them well But then, you know, you've got to look about the logistics and mechanics of it as far as how it pertains to his racing and the series, the other drivers.

Jimmy missed the race, missed a lot of opportunity to get points there Sunday. How long will that continue? He would miss the playoffs for the first time last year in his career. He could potentially miss the playoffs again if he has to miss too many races. How many races will he miss? And, yeah, will that affect his opportunity to make the playoffs? I think he was in a good enough situation. He was in a good enough situation at about 60 plus points ahead of the cutoff line to make the playoffs.

But now missing this races, it's going to put him in jeopardy. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. We are live, God. We were going live. Yeah, we are live. We are live. Hey, everybody, it's Dale Jr. Welcome to the Ask Junior portion of the show.

This portion of this show, man. It's brought to you by Xfinity. It is. They are a premier partner for NASCAR and your, partner for fast internet. I'm a customer. Believe it or not. I believe it. Yeah, I have Xfinity service and I just got it. I think around February.

Got the 200 megs. So I'm loving it. So, yeah, the Asked Junior portion of the show. Thank you guys for tuning in. Thanks for subscribing to our YouTube channel at Dirty Mo Media. I know you guys love the content there. We got a lot of it coming out. Don't forget, Lost Speedways, July 15th, on Peacock. our streaming network for NBC. It's a streaming platform that's coming out.

So we got Lost Speedways, a great TV show that I created for you guys. I hope you'll enjoy it. July 15th. You can get it on Xfinity, man. Well, yeah, you have an Xfinity. So a lot of people are like, man, I don't want to buy another streaming service. But if you have Xfinity, you get it for free. And so there.

Yeah, hopefully you have Xfinity. Oh, man. All right. So let's go ahead. Lee is going to help us, as usual. Lea is right here on the TV in front of me. Lea is going to help us with the questions you guys got. All right, Dale.

First question coming from Michael Batten. Is there anything NASCAR can do for the safety of pit crew members, especially on tracks with a narrow pit road? I don't know what NASCAR can do in that situation other than bring pit road speed even slower. You know, maybe under yellow flag conditions, the pit road speed can be slower. That'd be difficult for the drivers, though,

if they have to remember to be 35 under yellow and then 55 under green. I don't know what the answer is. I think when I was watching this happen, that was the only thing that popped into my mind in that moment. Need your reaction. You've got to be careful with those, but slowing the cars down. If the cars are going slower, that chain reaction is less violent, less cars involved in it, less people weaving recklessly out of the way.

and maybe it doesn't happen. You can't be sure. There's still going to be cars crashing, damaging themselves, but maybe it doesn't spill into the cars that are being pitted by the cruise at that particular point. That's the only thing I can think of of. It's a very, very narrow pit road, 24 feet from wall to wall. If you've got a car in the pit stall on the inside of you, that's taken up at least 10 feet problem.

at the minimum. So now you've got 14 feet, maybe even less than that, 12 feet for the rest of the cars to travel down pit road, pull into their boxes, pull out of their boxes. There's not many races that we have at Indy where during those first few pit stops, when there's basically the entire field on the lead lap, that we don't have damage. We don't have cars banging into each other, you know, really getting serious damage that either knocks them out of the race or ruins any shot at getting a good finish. We had the same thing last year. So it's just a treacherous pit road. I'm sure NASCAR is going to look into it. And typically when something like this happens, they make a change. So don't be surprised if we see something coming down a pipe.

A lot of questions. People really seem to enjoy the NASCAR IndyCar doubleheader on Saturday. So Patrick Lyons, aside from Indy, where else could we see an IndyCar doubleheader? Oh, man. You know, the Roval, maybe. Wachens Glen, I mean, Sonoma, all the road courses fit into that. I didn't even, I haven't even thought past a road course, you know. Daytona, somebody in our YouTube chat.

Daytona, I don't know about that. I don't know about any cars going around Daytona. I don't know if they would be wanting to, you know, even if they ran the road course, it's possible. But I've got a suggestion. Richmond. They already run at Richmond, don't they? I just think Richmond's just the coolest little track. I think that would be an awesome doubleheader.

Really? Yes. Yeah. I have to think, you know, maybe Texas might be a good one. I have to think where does the IndyCar, you know, let's think about where IndyCar runs that Cup doesn't run, Road Atlanta, Road America, places like that that might be great new venues for the Cup series to go, where we could be a guest of the IndyCar series that they've got a tradition there,

and they've got some history there in that particular racetrack, and we could go be racing there for the first time. hey man, they don't always have to be coming to us. You know, it could be, this is a 2A street here. And certainly when we're making this connection with IndyCar and we're having this sort of a venture together, we want to, you know, share the success. And they're going to headline some events,

and we'll headline some events. And I'm sure they're working all that out. Hey, the city courses. Where do they run? City courses, yeah, like St. Pete. That'd be fun. Yeah, man. Let's go to Service Paradise.

There you go. Obviously, the music industry lost a great one yesterday, and Charlie Daniels. Robert Olm said as asking if you have any memories of Charlie. I do. I don't even remember when this was. It was right around the time when Martin Trex Jr. was racing in the Xfinity Series for us at chance to.

Charlie came to play in Charlotte and me and Truex, T. T.J. Majors, my buddy, Sean Brawley, and a bunch of other guys went to see him play. He had us, there was a, he had a coach there or bus or whatever, and we went up and there and sat and talked to him for a while. So yeah, I got to meet him a long time ago, over probably 12, 15 years ago. And then he played recently,

he played at the Hendrick Motorsports end of the year party, Christmas party, whatever you want to call that. It's a bit of a celebration in the company where all the employees come to an event and they kind of hand out some awards and whatnot. He played that event, and it was really cool to see him there.

But yeah, he was one of the greats. Was he a good person? I mean, like when you were being the bus with him? Oh, very nice. Conversationalist. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was very, he was a race fan. So when I met him that day back then,

12, whenever, how many years ago, 15 years ago, he said adamantly, I don't watch much cup racing. I love the Xfinity series. He knew Martin really well because he was at that time, a big fan of that series and the younger drivers and watching these guys sort of make their way and try to get into the Cup series. And he's like, you know, I love that Xfinity series. He's like one of those guys that's a big college football fan, maybe doesn't watch

the NFL. Right, right. What the point of me? Yeah, me. Yeah, I didn't know what you were getting at there. But, yeah, I'm a college football guy. I don't much care about the NFL. I'm like, man, Mike used to be in our fantasy football league,

and he's like, I'm not really much of an NFL fan. You know, I'm just going to, I'm bowing out of the league. I'm like, oh, okay. So that's kind of, yeah, that's kind of like. Yeah, so that's interesting. You don't hear many people that just like, I just watch Xfinity racing. That's good for them. He gave me the bow that he used to play that night, and I have it in a case.

Oh, wow. That's cool. Why is that not in our studio? In a case. Because it's where he doesn't want it in the studio, right? I suppose I could bring it over there. No, it's okay. That's all right.

Jeffrey Davis is watching on YouTube and he wants to know if you have any thoughts on three-digit numbers. Oh, no. Let's not do it. Look at Matthew. Oh, no. Matthew's upset. You've hurt. Well, I don't know, y'all.

That's a good question. I don't know about that. They didn't look. good on NASCAR, what was it, 09 that had it, Dale? Is this a random question, Lee, or has this been in the news or what? No, I think it's just a good, it's a good question on the heels of number placement on the cars. It's been a lot of talk about, you know, moving the numbers around to be able to accommodate better positioning for primary sponsors and so forth, and which we debated heavily.

And obviously, absolutely, man, my opinion on that has not been concrete as I felt like it might have been as far as the number's moving. I've kind of warmed up to the number position being kind of anywhere on the side of the car, just as long as I don't really like it on the quarter panel behind the rear tire. Don't like that. But anywhere in between the wheels, I'm pretty happy with. I got a compromise, right? So we all got to compromise a little bit.

We can't just be so hardheaded that it's just got to be one way. I'm going to help you. You don't want the three numbers, three-digit numbers, because that makes the number smaller. I don't know about that. Not always. Not always. Not always.

I'm not. 1-11 will probably be some big. But other than that. Do you know the last three-digit car number that won a racing cup? Sure. Tell us. Wood Brothers. Yeah.

121. Bingo. Dan Gurney? Yes. Riverside. Yes. Oh, man. Yeah, look at you.

Rayman. Look at me. Go. Rain man. Just showed up. Mark Train is over here going, I want in on this. I, you know, and let's talk about it. Okay, there's a great example.

That didn't bother me a bit. All right, so just if it's going to get brought up and it's going to become a thing again, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go get triggered and be like, oh, no, didn't bother me back then. He's not going to go on Nashville Fairgrounds on anybody. Yeah. So triple numbers, if somebody really wants one, let them run one. Okay.

What about double digits with a letter? Yeah. Ooh, like an X-89. Like old dirt cars? Yeah. I like the X numbers. Number 6K or something like that. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm good with numbers. I always liked them when they were inside the letter was inside the number. The number. 3K. Yeah. Mousy Camster. Because, you know, they used to have the North and South or East and West, Canaan Series competing against each other. And they would have that letter just to be able to depict.

who was from what region. And you certainly see it a ton in dirt racing, whether it's sprint cars or late models, a lot of letters. But I'm great with that. Yeah, whatever. Whatever. Bring it on, he says.

Okay. Just keep them numbers in between wheels, man. One number is on the front, one numbers in the middle, one number's in the middle, one number's on the rear quarter panel. spread them out all right one more question this one coming

all the way from Australia from Adam Berg Highdale I'm from Australia and would love to see a NASCAR race live

I've never been to the state so I want for my first NASCAR race to be an experience where should he go best experience

hey first off big big fan of Australia me I was just telling Amy we were just talking about this

yesterday how I'm like man we got to go I'm dying to take Amy there, and she's like, when are we going? Because we're in the middle of having kids, right? So we can't go anywhere. Quit having kids. You can go to Australia.

Oh, man. I also want to go to Dawson City in Canada. I watched this documentary about these guys that floated up, floated down the Yukon River is an old documentary. They stopped in Dawson City. It looks pretty fun. Anyhow. Australia to Dawson City. Back to Australia.

You know, the first race. that I would go to is, man, if this All-Star race sticks at Bristol, got to go to that. When I was a little boy, I wouldn't really get too been out of shape if I was not able to go to this race or that race or any of, you know, I knew that school and things were going to be obstacles going to all of the races. I wanted to go to every race. And sometimes I didn't get to go. And it sucked, but it was okay. The one that was not okay, the one that it was breaking my heart, the one that I was going to throw a fit,

the one that I was going to refuse to miss, would be the night race at Bristol. That track is a stadium, and it's just a beautiful structure, impressive to see in person. The racing there is always dynamite. And yeah, I would say, because you can, you know, if I say Daytona, the Daytona 500, certainly an amazing race.

But, you know, when you're at such a big venue for your first event, you really only experience whatever's around you in that vicinity. And you only experience the race from one. perspective that's that you know you're limited on being able to really see what the cars are doing in turn to or down the back straight away and uh pit pit road you kind of watch the guys in front of you but can't see really what's happening to the end of pit road wherever you are you know you kind of limited uh on the experience at bristol man you're it's all right there in front of you it's all within arm's reach and it's just carved into this mountain it's a cool thing

And it's still, even after the changes and evolution of that racetrack over the years, it to me is still the best ticket, that night race at Bristol. I look at it like this. Like if I'm trying to send somebody to the racetrack that's maybe not even interested, all right, which one would you send them to? One that you know is going to hook them. One that you know is going to, they're going to look at and go, whoa, this is awesome. Bristol night race.

Mike, you got a different opinion. I do. Go ahead. I wouldn't go give them the best right off the bat. Oh, why not? I would get, because then the second race. I don't want to take any chances I'm not cooking them. I would give them Daytona first because it's not going to disappoint and then bring them to a smaller

track where the intimacy, hold up, stop. Let me finish. The intimacy then captivate you regardless of what the race is. And you already know Bristol's going to deliver. Man, the change from the. big super speedway and going down to the intimacy of a short track is amazing. And I know that because I went to Talladega my whole life first. And then when I went to something, my second race, my second cup race after going to

Talladega for years and years was Charlotte. I couldn't believe how close I was getting to see. And I could see the entire track. Charlotte felt like a short track to me because it was the, you know, and I couldn't believe it. And I was amazed by it. Then you go to Bristol. And now it's a game changer.

Yeah. And now you're hooked. I think that's how I do it. You want him to go to three events to get hooked. I want him hooked in that first one. But Daytona would do it. I'm not 100% confident in that. Really?

Listen, I am 100% confident in Bristol Night Race. Doing the job, getting them in, making fans. They're going to Daytona once they go to Bristol. Okay. I guarantee you that. because if they fall in love with it at that first race, then they're going to want to go to the biggest event. Yeah, maybe it has the same effect on the enormity of it.

I mean, one way or another. I think you knock down the same dominoes, Mike, either way. Let's talk about it for ten more minutes. I think you knocked down the same dominoes either way. Right, right. He has the same effect. All right, so there you go, Mr. Australia. We've given you your next three races.

I hope he's watching right now because I know it's – He probably not. Well, I know it's in the middle of the night over there or whatever, or maybe it's time to go to bed. But we appreciate everybody listening overseas Australia, wherever you're from. The international viewers and supporters really always impress me because that takes a little bit of effort. But appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, you've got to be fast in our sport in Xfinity. They know a thing or two about that. With Xfinity get blazing fast. Wi-Fi without any pit stops. X-Fi delivers the speed, coverage, security, and control. that you need to stay connected to NASCAR all season long. This is beyond Wi-Fi. This is X-Fi.

And keep your questions rolling in to at Xfinity Racing on Twitter using hashtag Ask Junior for a chance to have your questions answered by Dale Jr. himself. Mike, we're so proud to partner with Xfinity. The premier partner of NASCAR. Hey. Look at it. You're looking good, man. All right, everybody, just as promised,

a man that I know everybody's been waiting for to come on to this show. Mark, we've been so excited about the opportunity to speak to you this week. So thank you, Mark. Martin, welcome. Excited to be on with you, Dale. Even got a headset. This is a professional right here.

Well, I do my podcast from this computer as well. Yeah. So. How do you enjoy that? You enjoy doing the podcast? No, I don't like it at all. It's just, it's a pain in the ass. but and you know we just do it we're just doing them a document every year of my career yeah i saw you uh

i thought that was an incredible idea be honest with you because it's thorough fans are going to want to hear different part you know hear about different stories from different parts of your career and now they can go to the chapter for you know for for for that particular podcast and really get that information it's pretty smart yeah you know 1981 is a really interesting year 80 I hadn't got to 09 yet. We're up to, oh, 01. I think we've got a, we've got 99 and 2000 coming out and need to get on it and get 01, you know, get on through the rest of them.

But, you know, the fun part is the early years in my career, the tow truck was as biggest story as the, you know, the tow rig. I mean, there were so much fun talking about the toe. And, you know, the first four or five years was amazing, you know, it was a big. deal. Wow. I bet. Everybody has a good tow truck story.

Yes, sir. Well, let's get right to it so we don't waste any time. What was your first race car? It was a 55 Chevrolet. They had a V8 class, which would be the late model today, and a six-cylinder class, which would be considered probably a street stocker almost. And so we got a 55 Chevy out of the weeds and used water pipe and put a row cage in it, took the motor out and hopped it up, and it was a six-cylinder, 55 Chevy.

It started in 1974 racing there in Arkansas with that. What tracks? So Locust Grove, it's called Batesville Speedway now, but at the time it was called Locust Grove or Independence County Raceway. Every Friday night and every Saturday night, I'd go to Benton Speedboat, which is Benton, Arkansas. It's now called I-30 Speedway. So I'd race Friday and Saturday night. Why did you want to race? I wasn't any good at anything.

I couldn't play basketball, couldn't play football. I wasn't very good at baseball. And I wasn't good at anything. And I could drive a car. I could ride a motorcycle before I could really drive a car. And then I could really drive a car well. and it was something that I was pretty good at right from the start, and everybody likes to be good at something.

Yeah, was your family? What connected you to motorsports, though? Was your family in it? How did you, were you going with someone else? Was there a garage down the street? My dad was a race enthusiast of any kind. We went to drag races. Then we went to the Daytona 500, I think, about 72 or 73.

Wow. And we sat in the stands. and watch the races. And, you know, so we were just a fan. And we went every Friday night we'd go out in 73. We'd go out to the dirt track at local dirt track and Batesville Speedway and hang out in the pits. And the last night of the season, 73, I just, we were standing there.

And I looked at him and my dad and I said, let's build me one of these for next year. Wow. I'll be dang. Who's 55 Chevy was? exist. And whose weeds did you pull them out of? Dude, I don't know that. I just, I need to ask Larry Shaw if he knows where the car came from, but it was just an old car out in the weeds.

Yeah. Oh, Lord. And we pulled it out, we pulled it out, pull the motor out of it and sent it to Lonati Cams in Memphis and had them put a cam in it and hop it all up. Then we went out for the first practice night out there. And I made four or five laps and a rod came through the block. so we were in trouble. So we went to the guy who was winning all the races at Wayne Brooks, and we asked him if he had an engine.

He says, well, I got old war out standby backup engine. I'll let you use. And then we can work on, you know, it takes about a month to build you one. We can work on building you an engine. So we took that old standby engine, and it ran so awesome. We didn't want to give it back. And, you know, about it took us, you know, a little bit to get going. But we, we beat him a few times, you know, with that thing.

And it was pretty cool. You beat him with his own engine. Yes, sir. When did you win your first race? It was some time we started racing, I think, April. And I'm just going to guess I've got the journals. So it probably says there at the museum, I've got the journal of every, you know, every race of 74, 75.

and so it probably says, but I'm going to guess by May. Oh, man, fast. And how old were you? I was 15. What? I didn't have a driver's license, which didn't make any difference because the rules and the laws didn't apply to us anyway, the way we looked at things. And I had had, I probably had six no driver's license tickets by the time I did get my

driver's license. I was driving. I had my own car and was driving at 14. So you drove all over the roads. Did you know who on that car? Or is there somebody still looking for the 55 Chevy and everything else you drove? I didn't drive that car on the road. I actually had a Chevy Blazer and I drove to school at 14 and 15. That's crazy. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Did you know the, you know the cops or something? I mean, what's the connection? How do you get away with it? all this stuff. I got tickets, but my dad, which is a whole other story, my dad got really mad. There was one day on a Sunday, he said, Mark, he probably wouldn't be out of his hair. And we were at home. And he said, go down to the trucking company and check on the,

the reefer units on the trailers, make sure they're all running. So I went. I got a ticket for no driver's license. I came home. He was so furious and mad. He made me jump in a car. with him. He tore out, he found the guy parked in the restaurant parking lot. He burned a 360 around it, him, and then cussed him out. And I was scared, horrified, you know, nothing ever happened. My dad was, I mean, they should do a movie about my dad. There are so many insane stories about him. What was his name? Julian. Oh, yeah, Julian Martin, the life story of Julian Martin. That is a movie. Yeah, he was, his nickname was cat, the cat, because he, you know, he should have been dead at least eight times before it finally got him. You should do a podcast just on him.

I know. Yeah. I know you race, I've seen your pictures, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot of people that post pictures of you from the 70s. There's some dirt pictures of you. Like, you ran asphalt and dirt. How much dirt experience did you have? and what was your opinion of, I know you ended up on asphalt and ASA

and all that years later and dominated, but what was your opinion of racing on dirt? So the first two years I ran the six-cylinder division, and then my third year in 76, we built a late model. And so we, my dad was all about power. So we built this car, and it was a tank. Larry Phillips built a chassis for us,

and it was head. heavy and my dad had a 496, a 496 cubic inch big block built for it. So the car weighed 3,200 pounds. It was probably 54% nose weight. And I couldn't steer the car. I was 110 pounds, 17 years old, and I just couldn't keep up with the front, you know, the front tires. So we ran it two or three weeks. And then we went to the junkyard and got all the stuff to put power steering on it. it. Once we put power steering on it, we started winning races right away. So by the fall, we were traveling out of state to the big races to be challenged because it wasn't any fun. We wanted always be challenged. And so by the end of the season, we were traveling all over

the place. There were no asphalt racetracks in Arkansas. Well, Fort Smith, Arkansas, but it was 200 miles away. So there was no, the Daytona 500 was not on dirt. it was on asphalt. And if we're going to travel that far, we may as well be running asphalt. So we built an asphalt car, a pavement car, late model for 77. And I look back on it,

and I think the dirt track racing was a big asset to me at that early age to really learn and refine my car control. I think today, my opinion of dirt racing today is it's almost a must. if you don't you've got to learn car control in these things because you have to if you want to compete on the very top level you have to run the car in a slip i mean there's three do you know dale there's two or three tents yeah between just running the car perfectly straight and driving it a little harder and running it you know where it's actually slipping a little bit and you have to have car control to do that day that's interesting i've never heard it put so so uh smartly

Well, you know, it's true. Trying to describe to somebody the difference between good and great is the guy that can drive it in that slip, always sort of sliding and the guy that drives it straight. There's some good race car drivers that don't drive it side, you know, drive it in a slip, but the great ones do. And you learned that in the short time you were dirt racing? Well, I learned car control, you know, and refined it. when I started pavement racing, I don't remember running the car in a slip, but certainly we ran insanely good. I mean, the story, the story is, so we go to Ed Howe, well, you got to go to 1977 on my podcast to hear the whole story. We go to Ed Howe, have him build us a chassis,

but I wanted five, five on five lugs, not the big old ugly hubs. And we wanted to put, I, we wanted to put Hearst Air Heart brakes, NASCAR brakes on it, and all that stuff. And he had all this cheap stuff, but it was like. So anyway, we took it home, built it and finished it and took it back to Eds to have him set it up. And he totally squashed us. He embarrassed and humiliated us because the car was too heavy. And it wouldn't get the weight distribution that he wanted and all that stuff. So we jacked the car up and we took all that stuff off and put the lighter hubs and all that stuff on it.

And we ordered some aluminum heads. We were going to get some aluminum heads because they were just starting to get good. And in order to get two months experience in a week and a half, we're going to go to New Smyrna for the World Series of asphalt racing. Speed weeks, nine nights in a row, and we're going to do that. Well, I don't know nothing about tires. I see cars with Hoosier tires on them. So I got a set of Hoosier tires, and we don't run that good the first night.

and they wreck right in front of me in the heat race and I put it in a wall and bend the snout something terrible. And so we're out two nights, but my dad calls Ed and Ed's down there and he comes and looks at the card. He says, well, it's bent, but you might as well put it back together and get the boy some experience.

And so it took us two nights to get it all rebuilt, a radiator in it, because it was just killed. And so we missed two nights. So we went out there the fourth night. Well, Jody Ridley was on a Firestone tire deal. And he had been out there, and he blew a motor up the first night, the second night, and the third night. He didn't have nothing left. So we went home.

He went home. And so we're unloading the car. And for some weird reason, the guys from Firestone Tire come over and ask me if we want to try a set of tires. No charge. And I'm like, yeah, sure. So we roll a set of wheels over there and come back. It's number. They're scuffs.

They're 98. You know, they're Jody Ridley scuffs. And we both them on the car. And dude, we timed him third. And we made the top eight the rest of speed weeks. And it ran so good bent with a snout bent up an inch in the right front. We left it like that. When we got home, we didn't fix it.

We started racing it all over the country until I really didn't. We thought we were dumb as heck. We thought it was magic. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's magic. This thing will fly, you know. We figured it out. This is the secret.

How did you, when you're coming up to them like, I mean, you're talking about you and your dad. How were you funding the racing? My dad was funding it. Okay. You know, it was. What was the family business? trucking company. He started it the year I was born, 1959, with one truck. And he was probably running 20 trucks at that time. And before I started racing, you know, I learned to drive a truck

really early age. My dad was crazy. I would probably 12 years old and we would take a summer trip every year. Well, I'm going to say I was 12 and he let me drive at night. He finally got brave enough to get out of the seat, get back, you know, in either the bunk or in the passenger seat. And all our trucks, all his trucks were fast, of course. And so I'm driving this thing and it's nighttime and I'm passing trucks and he reaches over and flips on the dome light so that the other driver can see that he's getting passed by a little kid.

By 12-year-old at night. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. My dad, it was really cool. Steve Mill would always say, make a mention something about, flip that dome light on. Yeah, flip that dome light.

That's hilarious. Wow, he's driving trucks at 12. I mean, no wonder you got this thing figured out. You said you weren't good at anything. By gosh, you were driving trucks at 12. Yeah. So I'd go down to the trucking company on Saturday, every Saturday,

and wash trucks just so I'd get to park them. So instead of back, pulling them up there and washing them and then backing them back in. When I'd finish washing them, I'd go around the block in order to back it back in its spot. And so I would wash trucks just so I get to take them around the block. So, yeah, driving was my thing. I could do that. Okay, since we have Mark here with us on the download,

we decided to make him part of our Valvelin segment. Absolutely. Valvillin is a big supporter of this show, and they were a huge supporter of you back in the day. Since they are the original motor oil, they are all about original. So what's the most original person? Who is the most original person that you ever worked with? Oh, I think I work with a lot of greats, some of the greatest in NASCAR history.

One of the coolest people that I worked with was Rodney Chilters because he was a very successful race car driver. And I think that he could visualize and I think he could feel. what I would describe to him. And I think that's one of the keys to Rodney's success. You know, on top of being really smart and his work ethic is second to none. But I think his experience as a driver really makes him better. Yeah. I'm surprised by that, but not.

I have to agree with it. I've known Rodney since we were kids. And, boy, he is amazing. Real sharp. All right, Mark, when we've talked about Valvilline, we often talk about your big streak of four straight race wins in 1993. You've done a lot of things in this sport. What stands out to you about that street?

That streak in 93 was, we were so hot. It was unbelievable. I mean, our cars were so freaking fast, and we were just pulling them off. And we won, I remember winning the fourth one in a row in Darlington and getting my car to drive home. And, you know, you kind of know the feeling, Dale. It's just surreal. I mean, I'm driving down the road and I'm like, that's incredible, man.

Four in a row. And we go to the next week to Richmond and we're about halfway through the race. We're leading by half a lap. And I'm running like half throttle because I don't want to get any further way because NASCAR is going to get mad at us and, you know, start messing with us in an inspection or something. So it looks like it's going to be five in a row. I mean, it looked like, and then, you know, you get, you know, how you get on into the night and things change.

And for some reason, we lost our speed and we didn't win the race. But I really thought that we were going to win five in a row. Yeah. Well, man, we love that we were able to make Mark part of our Vivalene segment. It just makes sense. It feels right. Oh, yeah. It feels right.

Vavilleen, man, they're the original motor. You talked about your podcast. Mark has his own podcast, and he does this very interesting process of doing a podcast. for each year of his career in racing, which is awesome because, like he says, if you want to hear some story, go to the 1977 podcast. There you go. That's where you find it. And when you came on before we got started, you mentioned that 1980 and 81 particularly were very interesting years. What made 80 so interesting? Well, 80 was interesting because in 79, I still ran a how car, although I moved to Indiana.

Dylan, I went to the, in 78, I won the World Series of Asphalt Racing, you know, Speed Weeks at New Smyrna, won the championship. But there's no money in it. So I'd already proven, you know, that I could do that. And I also won the ASA championship in 78. So in 79, I wasn't going to go run because it cost too much money to go run it. And I didn't have anything yet to prove. And I was on the free everything, a tire deal with Firestone, Ed Hal gave me chassisies and all that stuff. So during that time, they had the overtrak trade show at Daytona, which is like PRI now.

And so I went to Daytona to watch Speed Weeks and to go to the trade show and drum up free stuff. Because at that time, it was my program. I'd, you know, pretty much. I mean, I was funding it. There wasn't much to fund. I didn't have to buy parts anymore. And so the purse money pretty much covered it. So I go down there drumming up free parts.

I meet Ray Dillon. and I hit him up for free springs and yeah you know you can you can we'll put you on a spring deal and if you want a trailer we'll put you on a trailer because we build trailers too and he said if you want a shop I'll give you a free shop to work in and if you want a house the house next door is 150 a month I'll rent it to you.

Geez most people call us the lottery you know when you win something like that my goodness so in April 70 when I get home from Speed Week in March 79 I moved to Indiana because that's going to be more central located to run ASA in Wisconsin, all the art go shows and short tracks. And so Dylan had something in his mind all along. We're going to design a race car and kill with it. So 79, you know, I race out of there.

Dylan gives me a key to the shop. He don't charge me nothing for anything. I can go over there anytime and use his equipment. I can get parts, whatever. So about two-thirds The way through the season, he says, let's design a car, you know, because we were running conventional coils.

I want to build a tubular and a Camaro sprints down. I want to build a tubular frame, coilover, rack and pinion, car. And I said, well, I'm going to tell you right now, if we do it, you're going to have to get a surface plate. We're not building this junk in a floor like you are now. These cars you build are junk.

And so he gets surface. slate and we we start designing this car the dillon mark two chassis into 79 so we go into 80 with that car i think i ran 7 38 races that year and i had quick time 33 times man ever almost every one them was track record everybody everybody that race short track had to have one trickle had to buy one rusty had to buy one everybody everybody had to have that car and so we own owned, we owned them with that car. I mean, it was insane. That's the three spring car from 1980.

So explain the three spring car. Yeah. So that car had 62% left side weight and 52% rear weight. And so it was loose everywhere I went. It was fast. We'd rank the track records. But that was the year that I broke my ankles and we put Daryl in the car. And I told them before we went,

I said, we're going to break the track record and win the race. And we did. And I knew we could break the track record because I'd just set the track record there, and it was way too loose. So I fought loose all the time. And I noticed when I'd get home and unstrap the right rear on the trailer to unload the car, that the spring would be about an inch away, the right rear spring would be about inch away from the adjuster. It wasn't like that when I'd leave the house, but when I'd get home with the fuel burned off,

it would be so, you know, it'd be all, you know, away from a gesture. And I'm like, that's not right, because this thing is like all wedge until it rolls over on that spring and then it starts taking it out. That's bad. What am I do about that? Well, I can't figure it out because I've got a 200 in the left rear and a 150 spring and a right rear. And I've got to have all this wedge. I need more wedge. And I've taken stagger out.

And the car's always loose. And it's the fastest thing out there. So I go to Winchester, and at Winchester with all the bank, like Crystal, I had a 500 and a 200 in it, 500 left rear, 200, 200 right rear. And it's loose. And I'm down to a quarter inch of rear stagger, and it's still loose. And I looked up under it, and the springs away from it an inch and a half. And I'm just pissed. So take that spring out. And I went out, and I start out about 55 mile an hour, and I speed up, speed up. And everything's okay. So then I dive it down in the corner, and it drags the back. And I'm like, you dummy, you got to put a 700. in the left rear. You just took 200 pounds

of rear spring out of it. And if you're not going to have a right rear spring, you know, you've got to up the 700, I'll put that 700 in it. And the track record was 1604. We ran 1574, broke it by 3 tenths.

And, you know, it's just insane. So it's just there's stories upon stories and layers to 1980. Also, at the end of 80, is when we start building, I decide, you know, it's time to try cup because they've just downsized the cars to the little cars and everybody's off base. You know, nobody's got it figured out. And this is my

third year in a row winning ASA championship is time to build a car. So we start building that first cup car to do five races and building a Bush car, Xfinity now it's called, for five races and I'm also going to run one Arka race at Talladega. So I'm going to use the Xfinity car to get super speedway experience, but I'm going to run the cup car at short tracks where I think I probably know more about it than the got, then the cup guys do. And so there's a lot of story about building that car. And then 81 tells about well, that car, that car had 60% left side weight, Jr.

I mean, that that cup car did. Wow. And there's a lot of interesting stories about the setup. It takes me to the third race to figure out the car good enough to get the pole. And then it takes me to the fourth race to figure out how to keep the car from burning the tires off of it. It had 51% rear weight. And when I finally figured out it needed 51% front weight, then I started staying on my tires. We ran third at Martinsville and ran seventh at Richmond with it.

So that's what I had never been to a cup race garage or pit. I'd never been. All the thing I'd ever been is in the grandstands at Daytona and Talladega when I started running those five races. So I mean, there's a lot of cool stuff in 80 and 81. So the funny thing about the car with the 700 left rear spring, no spring at all in the right rear. So, um, is so people talk about all that won't work, you know. Oh, everybody said it wouldn't work. Oh, yeah.

And they still say it today. about setups and unconventional things. And you can't, it's just funny because we were at, this isn't out there too far, but we were at, I remember being in Atlanta, I think I was a rookie, maybe it was 2001, and we had a two, two, two inch in a quarter front bar, which in my mind at that time was giant.

And I said to, we've been good in practicing, and I'm standing on the intro stage, and I'm standing with Mark, and I said, Mark, I, he's like, your car's pretty good. I said, yeah, it's got a big giant front bar. It's like two and a quarter front bar in it. I don't think it's going to be very good. It's probably going to get right.

And he looked at me and said, somebody's going to win a race with a two and a quarter inch bar and it. You might as well be you. Wow. Something along those lines. You know, and it is, it really opened my mind up to being willing to try anything and be creative, innovative with your setups. and when people tell you, oh, that won't work or there's no reason why that would work,

don't know you can't go that route. Mark Martin ran a car at Winchester with a 700 left rear spring and no right rear spring in it. I mean, that to me doesn't sound like it would work, but he was three-tenths faster than track record. Yeah, let me tell you one other thing about that, too. So as a Dillon house car, I had to give my setups out. So Bob Strait So I did and I would set cars up for a hundred bucks which I came Your dad got a Dillon car and I came to the shop out back and

And set that car up for him. He gave me a hundred bucks so hundred bucks cash was a lot of money to me at the time and so I did that well Anyway Bob straight Bob Strait had a Dillon car and so he after I went down there and figured that setup out He came in and wanted that setup we put the set up we put the set up up in his car and he sat on the outside pole. So it wasn't just, but when he saw that for the first time, did he go,

you're not telling the truth. This can't be right. No, these guys thought I walked on water. They said, if you're doing it, we're doing it. I hear. Now, he did run a 1603, so we still, we still beat him pretty good. I mean, my cars were really good.

The thing is, the thing that I always did, you ran one car all you. year. And you didn't try, you tried not to tear it up. And so when you'd bring it home, you'd do your regular maintenance. And then you'd spend the rest of the week grinding on something, sanding on something, or pushing on the body a little bit, or pulling or tucking to make the car better. So I, we never stopped. We worked, me and Banjo work 17 hours a day. You know, it would just work and work and worked and worked and always perfected those cars. So my cars were lighter than anybody's than a race against, except Blue.

Yeah. Or Junior Handley. Junior Handley and Gary Ballou really pushed me hard in the equipment area. Gary pushed me in the arrow and made me really be proactive there. And Junior really pushed in the arrow and the weight thing too. So we were nuts. I mean, anything, a quarter of a pound was a lot. of weight savings in one time you know at one setting yeah i try to talk to our late model

drivers that drive force at junior murder sports to get them to read gary's book and to learn more about gary more about you more about that particular time especially going down to the world the daytona speed weeks stuff where basically it was kind of run whatever you want on the body but i i try to push my guys to learn lean into y'all's careers and learn about them because of the innovation and creativity and how you and Blue all kind of elevated each other and really made each other go as far as you possibly could on every little part and piece on the car, the body, and everything else. Because, you know, the guys today, they build the cars kind of like a kit, and then they take them out on the racetrack. And I look at the bodies and things, and I'm like,

man, you're giving up so much opportunity. And it's all these little things that add up. And so I encourage those guys to dive back into that era, that late 70s, early 80s sort of era of super late models in ASA because that was a lot of ingenuity and stuff that still works today that guys aren't even doing to their cars today. I know it. And Mark, your conversation with Gary Ballou on your podcast, I think I learned more about racing just listening to you guys talk about this stuff than I have anywhere else. and it was amazing and it made me wonder. And hearing you, we're sort of giggling over here, just listening to you talk about springs and setups. I always wonder, have you ever,

you always seem to be the guy that didn't mind telling people what your setups were and helping with others. Have you ever told somebody, or have you ever misled them on your setup? Have you ever told somebody a setup that was not actually what you were running? No, Rusty did, though. I was standing right with Resty. It went on with Rusty one night,

and this guy come up, And he said, how much, Ressie, how much toe you run? He said, I run five, eight's in. You know, and I'm like, Jesus, he's lying his tail off, you know. But Ressie was always honest with me. We were always, if I hated a guy and he came up and asked me, I probably would have lied to him. But I never did hate anybody.

I was always willing to tell anybody what I had that it was an honor for me to me to me that they would ask me. Wow. If they'd come up and ask me, I was honored. And I would be happy to tell them because I was going to beat them anyway. Wow. And, and, you know, that was the way it was. I got into NASCAR and we talked a lot less.

But still, Rusty, if Rusty had three bad weeks in a row and wasn't running good, he'd come up and say, Mark, what he got. And I'd tell him everything. Same thing turned around. If I had to go, you know, running bad and couldn't find my way, I'd go to Rusty and ask Rusty what he had. he'd tell me every bit of it honestly. But I never did mind telling people what I had because,

but if you want one time when I lied, the first race I took my cup car, I knew cup cars had 125 to 150 pounds of lead. That's what a good, a normal cup car had, short track cup car. Well, my cup car had 600 pounds of lead in it. Oh, wow. And so, and this is in the night.

1981 podcast. So Jake Elder, and I didn't know who he was. I was in the first race is North Wicksboro, and I qualified fifth, but I burned a gear up in the race. And I was sitting on the, on the trailer fender of my open trailer waiting for the pay shack to open up. And this guy walks up and he looks over in the car, he looks at me and he said, you only got two gauges? I said, yeah, that's all you need. Water temperature and oil pressure. He says, you ain't got no tack? And I said, no, you don't need one.

Because I was, you know, I was pretty full of myself at this point. And then he says, how much lead you got in this car? And now, Jake Elder's paying attention because he ain't ever seen me before in his life. But he's seen this guy come that he don't know, qualified fifth. and he might not have been super educated, but you smart enough to know he need to be looking at my car and see what's the heck's going on. So he said,

how much lead you got in his car? And I wasn't prepared for that. I hadn't thought about anybody ever asking me that. So I lied and said 400 pounds. And he almost fell out. You know Jake. Oh, yeah. You know how Jake was.

He couldn't believe it. Then he looks at me and he says, you don't know who I am, do you? I said, no. He said, JC Elder. and I looked at him like deer in the headlights because I didn't know what he and then he said,

Jake Elder and oh yeah I knew who Jake was I didn't know who JC was. So all that, those stories are in the 81 podcast but yeah, that's really the only time I ever really lie in about a setup. But you didn't even lie.

You still like shot pretty high. Yeah, right. You still gave them something that blew their doors off, right? 81 was a tough year though. So, you know, you drove for J.D. Stacey, a couple races. Was that 82? That's 83. 83. 82 and 83 were devastating, career losers and demolished and took me from riding high to completely on my knees.

What happened? 82. Well, first of all, I didn't realize how hard it would be to run a full schedule. because I ran five races. There was a month in between. We prepared for every race with my little guys. At that time, I had three full-time employees in 81 doing those races and doing what I was doing. So I was not prepared for how hard it would be to run all the races. And I wanted to run all the races and run for Rookie of the year. And I was running against Jeff Bodine in the 50 car.

and that was a good good team really a winning team yeah and so so and I did a deal with Apache Stoves for 50,000 dollar sponsorship and they never they they went out of business never paid never paid and so I didn't have any sponsorship and my crew chief at Daytona got inebated the night before the 500 and didn't show up at the racetrack. My goodness. Sunday morning. And so, and then we blew up in the race. And so we left Daytona with a team in shambles, broke, no money.

And, you know, it just, it was terrible. So by the end of 80, and then Jeff Bowdoin beat me anyway. Darrell Walter pleaded with me, Mark, please go to a limited schedule. You know, please, and I was just too hard-headed and wouldn't. give up. I was going to beat Jeff Bodine. Well, he beat me anyway. And so at the end of the season, I had to have an auction because I owned all my stuff. Yeah, technically Bud Reeder was called the car owner. What he did was he paid for the cars. And then I paid everything else. He didn't pay any bills. He just supplied me a car. It was like the house car deal I had with Dylan.

Yeah. He gave, Dylan gave me the car. And then I operated it. And then I gave it. And then I gave it back when I was finished with it. And that was the same thing with Bud Reeder. So I was broke and I owed, heck, I owed Hutchson Pagan, I think 50 grand. So we had to have an auction and sell everything I owned.

And I paid everybody off. And then Tim Richmond had drove for Stacy in the two car in 82. And he had gone to Blue Max and it opened up the two car. And he'd win a couple races in that car. Yep. I got a shot at the car. but at the same time they shut off the money. The car was on the winter circle and Stacey had gotten another financial thing and shut off the money.

So they were operating only on the, you know, the winter circle money and the purse money. And so it was not the same thing. Del Eminen wasn't there anymore. Dale Emond left. He had been the crew chief and Bibby Harrington was a crew chief. And I didn't think Buby was that good and he didn't think I was that good. and after we ran seventh at Atlanta on used tires and third at Darlington, we went to Martinsville early in the race and I tangled with your dad

and going into the corner and spun out and got hit and messed the car up. So I got fired the next day and they wanted to put someone in the car with more experience. So they put Morgan Shepherd in the car. And that left me pretty much in trouble. Morgan McClure came along, but they were before they were any good. They had an old cutlass that was horrendously pitiful, terrible. G.C. Spencer was the crew chief. He was outdated. I was real progressive and he was totally outdated. We didn't get along. They had a really nice speedway car. I got to drive at Teledega and ran good in.

but I didn't get along with G.C. Spencer at the end of the year, I didn't call them back and they didn't call me back. And so I picked up my stuff and moved back to Wisconsin and started my career all over again. Now, it was hard to start all over again. Let me tell you how hard it was. I had nothing, nothing to my name. And the first guy I called, Ray Dillon, to get me my house car program. he said mark the days of free cars they're over wow i you know i knew i could go to prototype and get an engine deal ron neal you know had had uh you know been my engine program for since 81

and i had gotten them into nascar uh they used prototypes at uh the the stacy thing they closed up their engine in the two car engine program and used prototypes and so i got on that engine deal down there, NASCAR and all. So I could get an engine deal, but I was going to have to find somebody that had a truck, a trailer, and could supply me with cars. And they did, and one full-time employee. And so it was me and one other guy starting my career all over again and building the cars from scratch and hanging in bodies and going back short track racing.

And we had volunteer help that came in at night. So me and my guy, Doug Humbley. on would work all day. We'd go in in the morning and work all day. And then at night, the help would come in, and then we'd stay and work with the help all night. So it was a very tough time in my career. Humbling, Dale, I would not be the person I am today had I not failed.

Because I was on such a role before that, that 82 season. I was pretty full of myself. I was so full of myself that after that fifth race of 1981 when I sat on two poles, finished third and seventh with my own little car out of Indiana, the phone rang. My shop was a pole barred without insulation in Indiana, northern Indiana. The phone rang. It was a slim line phone on them dial phones.

I'm standing there. Answer the phone. Hello. Mark, this is White L. Wilson. I'd like to see if you'd be interested in driving the 28 car. and I said, no, I'd rather do my own deal. That was it. That was it.

So I could have been in the 20A car at the Daytona 500 in 1982. Wow. I'm not saying that it would have hired me. Sure. But I was scared to go drive that car because it was great at Daytona and Talladega. But Cal Yardboro was a hell of a driver. And I didn't think those cars for everywhere else was as good as cars I could build. And I was afraid I would go down there and be strapped with cars that weren't good enough for me

because I believed at the time that the reason I won races is because I knew more about cars than everybody else. You get that, don't you? I do. Absolutely. But when you lose everything, I'd imagine it shook your foundation. did you ever consider giving it up? Well, I mean, yeah, I thought about it, but what would I do? Right.

I mean, my dad asked me if I wanted to come back to Arkansas and run the trucking business. And it was like, no, I don't want to do that. I race. Yeah. That's what I do. You know, I won the, you know, ASA three championships in a row. I race, man. I'm not going to.

That's what I do. And so I didn't even consider going back to Arkansas. And I just dug in and started making phone calls and found a guy in Beaverdam, Wisconsin, who had one late model and was willing to build another one so that we'd have two, an ASA car and an ART go car, one with a big body on it and one with a, you know, stocker body that would run ASA, build a handling car. And so we moved up there and I went to work and started my career all over again. That's right around the same time, the first time I met Mark Martin. I came downstairs. Dad is living at the Lake House at this particular time.

And I moved him with Dad in 1981. But I come downstairs and Dad and Trisa and Mark Martin are in the basement. Dad had a pool table down there in the TV. And y'all are watching your races, your ASA races. and there was a VCR or a beta. I'm not sure which one it was, and an Atari in the cabinet. And y'all are sitting there watching these races,

and I'm like, man, this is awesome. And Mark is playing dad. I think one of the races was Nashville, the All-America 400, or I can't remember. There was all kinds of races that we sit there and watched of you after you kind of like you say, you got your career restarted and went back to dominate. Do you remember this, Mark?

Obviously, it would, right? Yes, that was January, 1982 is when that was. Details. And I had just moved to Charlotte, and I was in the Bush Clash, and Dale wasn't. So when we finished washing my races, he said, let me show you how to win the Bush Clash. Wow. And he put his race in and we watched him. I mean, that's crazy.

Wow. Yeah. When did you, like, I imagine at this point you knew him pretty well, right? I mean, when did you guys become at least friendly enough to come over to the house and watch old races? I don't really understand. I don't remember. Evidently, we must have picked up conversations in 81 when I was at the racetracks, you know, doing the five cup races and the Bush races. And we

raced against each other in the bush races because that 81 was the year when Ballou and Dale tangled. Oh, yes. And Dale said Ballou was the dirtiest driver in the world or he'd ever seen or whatever.

Well, I ran second in that race. That's right. So I was right there. That was crazy. I was running fifth at the time and when whoever turned sideways, I I don't know if it was blue or Dale turned sideways. The tires started boiling smoke.

I thought somebody blew a motor. I slammed on the brakes. You know, I just was green, man. I had no super speedway experience and was just learning. But anyway, Bill and I evidently talked enough, and he had respect enough of where I came from to invite me up to the house. And so I came up there in January. and, you know, I wanted to show him where I came from in my races because I was proud.

And when we finished up, he said, let me show you how to win clash. I thought that's cool. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, I mean, Mark Martin's not going to forget any details, but I bet I'm willing to bet that Dale Jr. is the only one that could remember that there was an Atari sitting there as well. Well, I remember playing it. I was eight years old.

Eight years old. Of course. Atari's were it, man. So, Mark, you went back home and you got going. So what came first? when you got you went back to ASA back to the late models the 31 I remember you come in and racing in Xfinity series the Bush series and the 31 Bush National Ford that what came first between that car and the rouse deal how did all that so so how I got to the 31 car was David

Levin doll was my brother-in-law ex-brother-in-law he's actually divorced my sister when I left to Arkansas to go to North Liberty, Indiana in April of 1979, I needed an employee. Banjo was with me, Banjo Grim, but I needed another one. So, you know, I hit David up to go too. So David came. They were my two employees. Paid them $100 a week, cash. And so my overhead was $200 a week for most of all my parts for free.

So anyway, I had a, David stayed with me all through the first years. I think he was the one that left the rag and the carburetor at Richmond in 1981 when I was on the pole and the car wouldn't start. I had to start a lap down at the end of the field by the time I got out on the racetrack. And so, anyway, David and I knew each other. Well, we had parted ways, you know, after that, not after that, but somewhere along the way, you know, he'd gone his way. I'd gone my way. So in 84, when I was up there in Beaver Dam and get my feet back under me, that wasn't a well-financed team.

And so in 85, I got the opportunity to drive for Jerry Gunderman. Well, Jerry Gunderman fielded ASA cars for Bobby Allison, had the Miller sponsorship, had Jimmy Finning and Jeffrey Finning working there at the shop. So heck, yeah, I was going to be the full-time ASA guy, and Bobby was going to run. part-time in his spare time out of that shop. So I went there in 85, and we won four races in 85, but we didn't win the championship because we broke some motors. And so in 86, Jimmy was my crew chief, of course.

In 86, we won the ASA championship. Well, toward the end of 86, Bobby Allison starts asking Jimmy Finney to come be his Cup crew chief. And David Levindal called me and said, I'm going to start a Bush team. my brother-in-law, or my father-in-law, Bruce Lawmaster, is going to fund it, and we're going to start this team. And I thought, yeah, just one ASA championship. I need to make more money than I'm making.

This is an opportunity to race on a bigger stage. I wasn't thinking about Cup at the time. I was thinking about, you know, getting into Bush series. So, and Jimmy kept telling me, says, if you stay, I'm staying. Well, I wanted Jimmy to go be a cup crew chief, and I needed to go try to make more money because I had a family, you know, wife and four little girls, which was kind of new. 84 is when I got married. So I saw the opportunity, so I took it. So we went and ran the Bush car.

We built, we did the full season in 87 with two cars. We did a super speedway car, intermediate car, super speedway. ways and a short track car, open trailer, and two employees and myself. And by Dover, you know, Dover is usually in May. By Dover, we won our first race. Yep. A few weeks later, we won at Orange County. And I'd been with Ford since 84.

When I went back ASA racing, I hit Ford up to, you know, be, participate in my deal. And they had given me, you know, like a 15. $15,000 sponsorship deal for motorcraft. So I'd been in Fords for three years. So I was kind of considered a Ford driver. We built a Ford Busch car in 87. And so I was in the only full-time Bush Ford car out there. There are no Fords out there.

No, you had to run a V8 against the V6s, and you had to run a weight penalty. So it wasn't really the way to go. But we won over despite that, one Orange County. and then Bud Moore starts calling. Steve Mill calls and says, hey, we're, Jack Rouse is going to do this deal.

You know, we're going to, Jack's going to call you. Did you know Steve? Oh, yeah. I knew Steve from 82. Steve, not everybody knew who I was and not everybody treated me. A lot of people treated me

like I was just a guy at the racetrack, racing, which is fine. That's fine. But Steve, was a crew guy that treated me like your dad did, like Bobby Allison did, like Tara Walter did, who knew where I came from and what I had done and accomplished. He treated me with so much respect, and I never forgot that. He would come up and talk to me in Pager's Recton H2.

So I knew Steve well. I was right in his backyard. He was in Pleasant Garden. I was over there in Randleman. And so he kept saying Jack's going to call you, well, months and months. months passed by. He'd call me. He said, Jack didn't call you. And I'm like, yeah, right, he'd call me. And nothing ever transpired with Bud Moore. I think there were some interests. Some people were asking questions. But finally, Jack Roush called. He said, I'd like to talk to you about

driving, you know, building cup team. And I knew all that because Stephen told me come up to Detroit. So I flew up to Detroit. And Jack showed me, And Jack said, I've got $4 million. I'm going to run two years on my money. You know, I don't have no need a sponsorship. I got backing from Ford. And we're going to have Steve Mill, Robin Pemberton. Here's the deal.

It's a, you know, limited schedule. We're going to do this deal. He told me all everything about his plan, all the hardware, you'll buy all the tires you need, you know, everything we need to do. And he didn't say anything. and I didn't ask about what he was going to pay me when he finished telling me all that stuff. I said, well, I want to do it.

We stood up, shook hands, and I about fell out. I mean, I honestly got dizzy from standing up and shaking hands because most people don't get their first chance, much less a second chance. And it's funny, because he's the one that brought it up later. I didn't ask him what he's going to pay me, And I found out it wasn't much. Jack was a guy that always put the money into the hardware.

And he didn't put the money into the people. He believed in getting people like Steve Neal, Robin Pemberton, and all these kind of guys that were smart and really wanted it. And he would give them tools to succeed. And he likes doing that. And if you'll think about it, the hero that Jack Rouse is, his real legacy is he never hired before Ryan Newman, you know, just last year. He never hired a successful driver until he hired Jamie Murray. And I had to beg him and beg him to hire Jamie because I want him to hire Jamie to replace, you know, to take the six car.

I wanted Jamie to drive the six car and take it. And then things got screwed up and I didn't leave. Kurt left and they needed me to stay another year. So he, Jamie wound up over in the 97. But, yeah, Jack brought it up.

Like, dude, he didn't, I didn't make nothing. I mean, Brett Boddine was making twice as much money as I was making, driving for Jed Budmore as I was making driving for Jack. And it bothered me.

Yeah. And that's in my podcast too. My relationship with Jack was very, very difficult. He was very cold for years, and he didn't treat me with respect. He intimidated me and kept me down, you know, and I was scared of him. And it took years for that relationship, you know, to really develop. All right, guys, our Mark Martin interview went really long, and I wanted it to.

and the reason why is because I'm going to split it to two parts. You just heard part one. Hope you enjoyed it. It was great. I expected it to be. Can't wait for you to hear part two coming at a later episode. What's up, everybody listening to the second best podcast on a Dirty Moe Platform. Dale Jr. download. Freddie Kraft here.

And when you're ready to listen to a podcast with real unfiltered opinions directly from the track, check us out on door bumper clear. Yo, Brett Griffin, Spotter for Clint Boyer. Today we'll talk about the bad spotter views at Indy, the scary pit road pile up, and cars blowing tires. all day on Sunday.

TJ Major is here and make sure you listen to Doorbumber Clear this week and every week on all major podcasting platforms. What's next, pal? Odd history.

All right, guys, odd history. The odd history title is stuck. I'm going to... I'm just letting you know what the odd history title is because I haven't read this. I'm reading it with you,

learning about it. The title is, stuck from Matthew Dillner. We've heard before about drivers, several of them, having dreams that they show up on the grid and they've forgotten their helmet or something. And we're not able to start the race. I've had those dreams. Oh, I've heard about this a lot, actually.

Yeah, I hear about it. Like showing up in your underwear or being late. Oh, God, waking up, being late, have that dream all the time. Not anymore, because it was so much of reality in your past. I bet no driver has ever dreamed of what happened to a cup driver at New Hampshire Motor Speedway in 2006. This is recent. The nightmare happened to Ted Christopher. He was an innocent victim.

T.C. was driving for Kirk Shelmerdine and had qualified 43rd in the Lilly trucking Chevrolet. He strapped into his car for the Sylvain. 300 on a beautiful New Hampshire day. But Christopher wasn't allowed to take the green flag. You see, his spotter. His spotter was stuck in an elevator. Talk about a panic moment. What happened was, before the race was about to start,

a car crash on a nearby street knocked out a power line and cut the electricity off for the track. His spotter was taking an elevator to the spotter stand at the moment the power went out, trapping him inside. This prevented him from recovery. reporting to his post. As NASCAR requires all cars to have spotters, Christopher was held in the pits until the electricity was restored on lap four of the race.

I was in that race. My day started in 13th position and ended in the lucky 13th position. Poor T.C. obviously didn't have any luck. He ended up having break issues, finishing 41st. It turned out to be the final cup series start for the legendary Connecticut. short track driver. Stuck! By Matthew Dillner.

And NASCAR Man. Yeah, thank you, NASCAR Man. NASCAR Man gave us the exciting parts. NASCAR Man is a great follow on social media. You definitely wrote the lead to that, though, didn't you? But NASCAR, man, you might want to bring in the titles. And the lead. The lead was...

Oh, the lead was okay. ...driving about losing their helmets. Well, let me tell you about a story that has nothing to do with dreams or helmets. Oh, it's a dream segue. All right, speaking of dreams, last call. Well, that was a terrible segue. Last call. All right, guys, last call.

It's last call. The show's over. That's when last call happens at the end. That's right. It's not they call it last call. We are about one wake away from Lost Speedways. Law Speedway. So Law Speedways is a television show that Dirty Mo Media,

everybody basically in this room helped create for Peacock, which is NBC's new streaming platform. July of 15th, you'll be able to, will they be able to watch them all? Yes. You'll be able to just watch them all on July 15th. Whole show. Whole season. All season, right.

Vinge. And please do, because I'm eager. You know, Matthew, I know you guys are, to speak for yourselves. I'm eager for feedback. And I'm also eager to find out whether we get a second season. And so if, you know, you guys watch it, maybe you'll get some positive reaction out there. to Peacock and NBC, and they'll want us back. The few people that you have let's see in sneak peeks, though, the feedback was what?

Like, you know what you're telling about it? Amazing. That's right. Good. Make more, please. That was the feedback I got. If you're an Exfinity customer, you get Peacock TV, the streaming platform that Lost Speedway is being provided to you on for free.

That's cool. All right, Dale Jr., download, the TV show, is on Emory. NBCSN Wednesday at 6 p.m. Eastern, Wednesday at 6 p.m. Eastern on NBCSN. You guys wanted Mark Martin, you got him. I didn't expect any less. He was great. And he's just a cool dude. One of the guys that's just always been a cool dude, and he's still a cool dude. So, great follow on social media, and he's a legend.

Hall of Famer, Mark Martin. Thanks for coming on, Mark. We're going to have a second part of this interview coming up in another episode. So tune in for part two of Mark Martin. I hope you guys enjoyed the show, and we'll see you next week. This bit of bad assery was made by Dirtymo Media. Dirty Mo!