The Dale Jr. Download - 316 - Larry McReynolds: Hey Baby Boy!

Episode Date: September 23, 2020

Dale Earnhardt Jr. welcomes America's Crew Chief, Larry McReynolds, to the show to uncover how the heck a Birmingham 'Baby Boy' became one of the most recognizable and trusted names in NASCAR. Larry Mac gives us the low-down on why he was nicknamed "baby boy" early on in a journey to NASCAR that was filled with more ups and downs than an amusement park. From Super Late Models at Birmingham International Raceway, he turned wrenches for the best of them and became one of the most famed crew chiefs of his time. From Dave Mader III and Mike Alexander to Mark Martin, Ernie Irvan and The Intimidator Dale Earnhardt, success came with multiple periods of unemployment and doubt in between, McReynolds doesn't hold back about the rocky road that got him there. He also shares his candid thoughts on what made Davey Allison one of the more special drivers he ever crew chiefed for. Oh yeah, throw in the fighting nature of the Blue Max racing team and hot shot young driver Tim Richmond into this tale and you know it's a ride. Dale Jr. and Mike Davis find out about how he got the opportunity to build Kenny Bernstein's King Racing team. and the unexpected plot twist of how he became the crew chief of the operation. Learn how a handshake and a humble apology led to the start of Larry's relationship with Robert Yates Racing. The move nobody expected was Larry McReynolds as Dale Earnhardt's crew chief. Larry shares some funny moments and unbelievable pranks that happened during those years.The DJD gang discuss the first dominoes falling in NASCAR's silly season and the news of Bubba Wallace being tabbed to drive for a new team owned by NBA legend Michael Jordan and Denny Hamlin. Will it be more or less pressure for the young driver? We dissect the move of Ross Chastian to the Cup Series in the Ganassi Racing No. 42 ride. And speaking of silly season, Dale, Mike and producer Matthew Dillner noodle the remaining rides and most desirable free agents on the NASCAR market.The fans bring it with some great questions in AskJr presented by Xfinity. We find out that Dale like Nashville Fairgrounds as a track for Cup, Xfinity and for lunch.We shake the pelvis with a story of Elvis and a short tracker's far fetched dream of partnering with the King of Rock and Roll. Plus, the DJD attempts to answer the biggest question on everyone's mind at this time of year... is September too early for pumpkin everything? Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Dirty mode. Dirty mode. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Dell Jr. Download. I'm your host, Dellenhart Jr. My co-host, Mike Davis, is here. Matthew, Leah, everybody in the house. Today's guest for the show, Larry McReynolds, a crew chief himself, is going to come in here.

He has quite the career. It should be a great show. Let's get started. Hey, test. one, two, three? Check one, two. Hey, test one, two, three. Check, check, check, check.

Okay, Mike, ready? Go. Go. Go. Yeah, yeah. This is cool. I'm thinking of an idea. It's the jam.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is pretty cool. That's Mike's voice. Hey, here you go. Oh, man, I'd have to go strobe on that ass. Boy, we couldn't wait to get back to the office. That's awesome. We couldn't wait.

Show me an office. Amazing. There's music and rhythm. Make more, please. Show me work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Social media.

I have no idea what the popular opinion is. Rumors. I haven't been on social media. Hearsay. Consistent with the way everybody disseminates information everywhere else. Very toxic combination. I like it. That's how I'm going to approach this conversation.

We'll see if it's not a train ring. Yeah, yeah. The Internet. The internet is a marketplace. It's a marketplace. Of morons. Okay. So when you hear that voice, that's Mike.

Of morons. There you go. Oh, man. My eyes are tearing up. That's good. DJ Dillner. Is it just us that let me say, I play these for Amy and she does not think they're that funny. She doesn't?

No. What? I know it. I'm crying. No, no, no, no, it's nothing, Matthew. I'm like, it makes me think that only I am laughing at my own joke. If that's the case, we've entertained ourselves, and I don't apologize for that. Oh, my gosh.

All right, so Larry McReynolds is the guest today, excited to talk to him. And before we do that, let's have a little conversation about what's going on in the sport. Bubba Wallace is going to drive for Michael Jordan, Denny Hamlet. Those two are forming a team. They're going to buy the charter from the 13 car. Germain Racing's going to close down as Geico has moved on from that partnership as a sponsor for the race car. So Germain's going to close down that operation. They're going to sell their charter to this new team that Michael Jordan and Denny Hamlin are forming.

More details to come. We don't know anything about manufacturer or any of those. But you can assume, you know, Denny drives a Toyota, so it's probably. going to be a Toyota but it's a great opportunity I think for Bob Wallace I think you know it'll be a situation where everybody will need to have patience you know anytime you start a brand new team there's a lot of things that have to get off the ground and it could it could be a while before the team realizes its potential and if I think everybody remains patient in that regard when it comes to to Bubba and everybody involved I think it could be a great deal I like the idea

that Hamlin's a part of it yeah were you surprised when the news came out I'd heard some rumors that Denny Hamlin had been in conversations with Jordan about acquiring a charter. And so just, you know, waiting on confirmation or waiting on the pieces of the rest of the story to fall into place. And it comes to be, you know, I think that, you know, having Michael Jordan as a part of our sport is an amazing idea. And obviously, that's an amazing idea. But the fact that he will have Denny in his corner and helping, you know, sort of navigate the growing pains of an organization, I think Denny knows well enough what it's going to take for that team to be competitive and where they may need to focus, you know, their initiatives early on. So, and Denny's ambitious.

So I'm excited to see this side of him. We always wonder where the next owners, where are the future owners coming from, right? They don't have to be, you know, they don't have to all be these young entrepreneurs. You know, they can be the savvy businessman, CEO of whatever, you know, like Michael Jordan, and they can be these young drivers or, or,

veteran drivers sort of phasing out that part of their career into ownership. Just think we were talking about Spire the other week. You have both sides of it there, just what you said there. Yeah, so I'm excited about seeing what this team can accomplish and what it can become. Ross Chastain to the 42 car, I'm excited about that. And I think everybody's kind of been waiting on this to happen. Ross has had a relationship with Ganassi for a couple years. He was supposed to go into the Xfinity car, the sponsors,

ship fail apart to say the least and it's delayed his progression but he's had a great place with colleague to continue to hone his skills he's had an amazing season that continues in the Xfinity series this year and I think that he's done enough to warrant this opportunity be excited to see what he can accomplish in that car next year I think that the opportunity had in the sixth car to fill in for Newman it's a bit that that was a bit underwhelming. I don't know why that didn't go better for Ross

or why there wasn't any kind of a flash of potential to be seen in that short period of time to be in that cup car. But yeah, I guess I can just choose to ignore that tiny part of his career and hope for the best going in this 42 car. He's obviously a talented driver. I mean, you watch him drive that colleague car

out of control, loose all the time. and wheeling it up into the top five, up into the top three, and the top two. He has yet to win this year, but he's came very, very close. I think he's got like 16 second place stage finishes at something crazy like that. So he's an obvious talent. Yeah, all the Dominoes are kind of starting to fall for the silly season. There's so many names of drivers that don't have deals, right? You got Corey LaJoy.

Eric Jones. Eric Jones. Yeah. Ty Dillon. Daniel Suarez. You still got, you know, what the 48 car is going to do, who they're going to put in. Kyle Arson, is he coming back? The ultimate wild card.

Right. There's a lot going on. Yeah. Did it feel like, though, that the Bubba Wallace piece was the first, like, like, it became clear about maybe a month ago that, well, at least when Bubba said he was leaving RPM. Yeah, who goes to RPM? Right. Yeah, who goes to RPM? But it seemed like that was going to be the first thing to see what would happen.

And now that's happened, I'd expect a lot more to kind of – Then let me ask you this. To drive for Michael Jordan, like, for what we know about Michael Jordan, after especially watching that documentary, like where he's sort of like this win-at-all-cost mentality, that's got him where – you know, that got him the success he has. Like, would that be intimidating to drive for Michael Jordan, especially for our new team? You're talking about Denny managing the expectations from a race – That's great.

That's also going to be necessary almost. You know, I don't think Michael Jordan extends these, you know, moments of grace because of a new team. He seems like he don't care. He wants to win. Well, sure, but, you know, he'll be realistic about it. I think I don't know Michael Jordan. Obviously, Denny Hanlon knows him very well. They are very close friends.

I'm sure that Denny's going to bring Bubba into those conversations, and Bubba will find some, you can't help but be in all. of being around the greatest basketball player to ever play the game. And there will be some pressure to deliver what Michael Jordan wants to accomplish in this sport as an owner. But I believe that Bubble feel very comfortable right at home once they get, you know, get to know each other a little bit better. I don't sense Bubba feeling more pressure than he's probably felt this year. Well, yeah. He's on his own level, for sure.

So I think if anything, this relieves a little bit of pressure for Bubba because he's been in a situation that's definitely just from a performance standpoint where he's been the cars he's been driving the the opportunities that have came and went from way back in his truck series days to the rouse deal at Xfinity and and then his cup opportunities he has been clawing yes he has so this is sort of like opening up present on christmas morning it was a good point actually on door bumper clear because Ryan McGee was on it and he says you know people that it's going to sit there and say that Bubba hasn't earned or hasn't done and performed well enough in that car. They don't understand how long it's been since that car was actually relevant on the race track.

And he says, you've got to go all the way back to probably Bobby Hamilton. So, you know, the performance Bubba's had this year has earned him this opportunity. I don't think it's. And trust me, I fell victim to what we all don't like to on social media last night. And I came out a hater because it's like, yeah, a little bit. Because it's like, you know, somebody was saying he doesn't deserve the opportunity. he's gotten in cup because he hasn't won an Xfinity. I'm like, hello, Jimmy Johnson

didn't win in damn Xfinity. And I'm like, that kid won on an intermediate. He won at Martinsville. He won at a dirt track in trucks. So don't tell me he hasn't done anything. And that just kind of... He's earned the right to get here. He's earned the right, and if he doesn't perform...

Right. Man, if you can't be happy for him or happy for this sport with Michael Jordan coming in it, God, this is just a great thing. Yeah, I'm not even going to waste my time on it. performance discussion. Yeah. I like this opportunity.

I'm excited about seeing where this goes. So if you're one of these cup teams, we mentioned Richard Petty Motorsports, who else is filling a vacancy? You got the 48, Richard Petty Motorsports. What other opportunities are there? What other cars are open? Spire, second car,

Petty 32 Suarez's ride So the 32 Sorrez and Spire I'm not going to put it on the table Okay I'm not going to

They haven't had the performance To be in this conversation So you're talking about the main level teams then How was Stuart Haas Do they got I mean Boyer deal isn't locked up right now Boyer's not locked up right now

But I'm assuming I'm going to assume That I'm feeling pretty good about that I am too I'm feeling pretty good about that If I'm one of these teams that wants to go compete and wants to check the box that the driver is ready to rock, I'm telling you, man, I'm tempted to actually go into the Xfinity pool and get a guy like Briscoe and or Cendrick, then go to the cup pool, drivers that are available in that.

except for like Randy LaJue, not Randy LaJoy, Corey LaJoy, to me is a guy that we just haven't been able to see him in the car that we can be able to go, okay, he deserves better. He deserves more. And I think we need to make sure we check that box. Corley-Loy is a guy that I think would be interesting in a higher-tier car. And I don't know. You know, I have a hard time. Who would you say, are you on Richer Pady Motorsports?

Who are you going to hire? There's a relationship there, past relationship with Corey. If Briscoe's locked in with Ford for another year is what I read. You can get out of it. Give me three names. Briscoe number one. Okay. Mike, you're ready.

Some people might disagree with this. Algeyer number two. Okay. Who's going to do. agree with it. You know, I'd put Larson number one, but I think he's on a different level. I'd probably go. You get three names. Do I get three names? It's Larson, Briscoe, Justin Allgaier, over Corey. Oh, I agree with that completely. You like that list, Mike? No, I do love that list. I thought Ross Chastine was the high draft pick to graduate the cup. I think that was, it was time.

He just got drafted, you know, so to speak. I think Chase Briscoe, Austin Cendrick is a compelling situation for me just because of the affiliation with Penske. I'm really intrigued to see how that plays out, right, over the next year. I think he's in the right spot because he's really developing. Because he's really coming along. He's developing. Yeah, he is. But man, I'm telling you, man, Al-Gyar is just solid.

And are we biased? Maybe. But like, that also was to show you, we think these guys are legit, man, to the point that they probably earn another shot at Cup. And his experience in Cup was nothing. I feel like Al-Gyre is sort of like how you feel about Corey LaGiore. For sure. Yes.

Yeah, I definitely, I would put I'll guard on a list as guys. If I was looking to fill a seat and I need a good solid driver that's going to be there every single weekend and I'm not trying to figure out whether this guy's got it or not, you know. I mean, you know, when you got, when you, if you're a driver and you kind of went and raced for a top program and the results weren't there, you got to wait your turn and let these guys that haven't had that shot. I have to pick the other guy. I can't pick you. I saw what you could do.

I think I saw what you could do. So I want to go back here and get this other guy, a Cory LaJoy. Oh, so you're saying like a swar as or something. I'm trying to understand you like a swariz. I don't want to name names. I don't want to put anybody out there. Yeah, I got you.

I don't want to run over anybody with the bus. Yeah, I hear you. But once those guys kind of go through that program, damn, you know, it's almost like I'd rather see if Corey or Justin or Cendrick or Briscoe, you know, Gragson, Gregson could probably get another year in Xfinity. 100%. Same with Cendrick, in my opinion.

Cendrick? Yeah, all of them guys would benefit from another year for sure. But if you're trying to hire a guy right now, I almost feel like you take a little bit, you take a little flyer on one of those other guys that hasn't had that top-tier opportunity to see if you can strike gold and create something pretty special.

there's only a few drivers out there that get in a car and make it better, make the program better. There's only a few that have come through the series of the sport that can do that and trying to find that guy. If you're a builder program, Richard Petty, the 32 car even, Spire, you've got to have that driver that can raise the program. You don't want to hire a driver that's not going to improve the program. You don't want a hire a guy that's just going to climb in and drive, even if he's talented. If you're a build a program, you've got to have a driver that can lift you up. Guys, like I would say Kurt Busch would be a great example of a driver that you can put him in a team, and that team gets better. Yes.

I don't know what it is that Kurt does. Yep. You've seen it. I don't know what it is. Right. But he's made that, he made the furniture row better when he got in that car. Phoenix. Phoenix ran better even though the meltdowns were incredible.

But he made the one car better. Yes. When he got in it, he just has that ability, whatever it is. I thought Matt de Benedetto possessed that as well. Now, I'm starting to wonder where the performance is out of the 21 car this year. With Matt, I expected some blasts, some moments of, aha, there it is. This is what we thought Matt could do. And it's kind of not really all been there this year.

But I still feel like he's a guy that can elevate your time. team, if you want to hire a driver and your team just gets better. 95% of the drivers don't do that to teams. Now, even the talented ones, they get in there and they'll run as good as the car can run, but do they make the team better? The whole group, right? It's hard to explain. You know, well, it's hard to explain, but having lived through the Kozlowski experience

the way we did, I know exactly what you mean because Brad Kislowski was something, that's something they'll notice, and these owners notice these things that we, usually don't and that's it he's making that car that truck in his case finish better than what it's supposed to be finishing because you guys had a really talented driver you know with huffman but man when he well yeah we were we were idling along there and tearing up some stuff and then kislowski came who you know optically looked like a disaster because he's wearing his you know knee high socks his braces got food from yesterday stuck in him and he's you know sweatpants but by god when he one pops over. Tony Erie

Senior is going to play along with these guys if they're not legit. He was a wheelman. Yeah. Well, lots going on in the sport in the next couple weeks. It's going to be pretty busy with a lot more dominoes falling and it'll be interesting. Hopefully there's intriguing as

what we've learned already. I think we should bring Larry Mack into the studio, guys. Let's do this. Come on, Larry Mack. Oh, look at him. Hey, Larry. Come on in, my man. Roll-tide.

Aw. Did it for you. I know you did. I've got my Alabama mask out in the truck, so. You know, we're told that we're a real intimidating bunch around here, so I just want to put you at ease. You've got me right at home right there. Yeah, I know I would.

Do you remember you and I seeing each other out in Pasadena? The Rose Bowl. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of memory. Yeah. Well, the reason I remember it is because my wife,

thought I was silly for wanting to go in basically right at the time the gates open. I was so excited for that game. And she's like, you're going to be the first person in the stadium. Well, it wasn't. Larry Mack was there before I was. I want to see them when the bus arrives. That's right. The Texas Longhorns, they got another meaning of what Roll Tide means that night.

Yeah, they did. That was a good time. So, Larry, it's awesome to have you on the show. We've had you on our list for a long time, but we got to talking to Ernie Irvin a couple about a week or two ago. Which I love that show. It was awesome. God, he was so good.

And it really up the urgency, I guess, to talk to you. Well, I'm very flattered to be here. I watch it all the time and enjoy every episode. I mean, the people you've had on here, it's been amazing. It's been probably the most enjoyable thing I've ever done in the sport just to be able. Because I love the history and, man, you think you know these guys until you get them in here on the table. you hear some of the details of some of their stories and some of the things they've had going on in their lives, and it blows you away. And it takes you right back there. I felt like when we were talking to Ernie,

I was like, man, it's like I feel like I am right back in the middle, all that stuff. So before we get started here, how good was Ernie? What do you think he could have accomplished? You know, I worked with some great race car drivers. I worked with your dad, Davy Allison, Ricky Rudd, Dale Jarrett. But I think as far as just absolute natural ability, I don't know if I worked with anybody quite as good as Ernie Irving, especially before that wreck at Michigan in August. And even when he came back, I still think he was better than about 75% of him. I tried to tell him that. Yeah.

That was what's amazing about him. And when I realized how good he was, Dale, was we were at Loudoun. We had set on the pole, and we had led that thing two-thirds of race. And this is just after we first started going up there, you know, like 1994. And all of a sudden, we were leading, had a good lead. Stopwatch fell off. And I let him run about four or five laps. And about the time I was going to ask him, he said, Larry Mack, my groove's gone.

I said, okay, just tell me what it's doing. He said, just hang on. About five, six, seven laps later, all of a sudden that stopwatch started getting faster. And he came on radio and he said, Larry Mack, I'd have found me another groove. That's just how good he was. He didn't depend on the next pit stop making that car better. He wanted to make it better with what he was doing inside of that race car. Oh, wow.

Well, I thought he was awesome. And I thought, I told him, I mean, Dave, I was nervous about Davey when Davy started driving the 28 and winning. And he was getting more confidence in himself and he was going to be a threat. Anybody that was going to be a threat to beating Daddy or winning races, they were winning races, daddy wasn't winning races. If they were winning championships, dad wouldn't win. in the championships. I wanted him to win everything. But man, when Ernie got in that car, I thought, okay, he's got as much to our talent as dad.

He's got one of the best engine builders, best cars. This is going to be tough to beat. Well, and, you know, we were just roughly 13 months beyond losing Davey. And Ernie Irvin's exactly what that race team needed. You know, nobody could replace Dave. Sure. but Ernie came in and put us back to life again. And, you know, we won right out of the box, went to Martinsville,

and won the first race with him. And then a week later, I mean, I've been a part of winning some dominating races, but Charlotte, in the fall of 93, we led 328 of 34 laps. The only laps we didn't leave was through the cycle of Green Flag pit stops. And I spent most of the race, trying to slow him down a little bit, but trying to slow Ernie down is like trying to get a dog, not to bark. It wasn't going to happen.

Do you think, I mean, he used the word cocky a lot. Was he as cocky as he made himself out to be? And also, I'm curious if he said that he came back at 75%. And one of the things, as far as reactions of people in the industry, especially those that work for him, wondered if 75% was being a little too gracious because he may not have been. What is your thoughts on both of those things?

Well, there's no question. He was a little bit cocky. And, you know, I'm a very straightforward and open guy. And when he came to drive the 28 car, I had obviously seen some of the things that he had done and things he had said and the way he had kind of acted. And I told him, I said, as long as you go out there or we go out there and we back it up on that racetrack, I got you back the whole way. If we don't start backing it up on the racetrack, y'on, y'on, pal, I'm not going to stand behind you being cocky.

We got to back it up on that racetrack. So how was Davey unique? Like, Davey was, my perception of Davey was that he was really good, a really good guy, really kind, really easy to talk to approach. Like, me and Kelly would have conversations with him at the racetrack. And, man, he just seemed like he was one of the few drivers outside of dad that I could actually walk up and talk to as a young kid. He was so approachable, likable, happy to talk to anybody, smiling all the time.

But inside the car, I don't know that we all got to see just what he was all about, you know. And you guys were kind of starting to form him as a driver because he was still pretty raw when he started driving that car in the Cup Series, the 28 car. but he was starting to kind of come into his own. So how was he different than Ernie? And like, you know, you probably knew him better than anyone, or most of us at least. So is there anything you can kind of tell us about David that we'd be surprised to know? Well, he was genuine.

And a lot like his dad, he understood one of the most important things about our sport was our race fans. and he really embraced that. You know, he had busted up some ribs at Bristol in the spring of 92. And next week we went to North Wilkesboro, and we actually won the race. And he was hurting. He sat down beside the car most of Victory Lane. And, you know, he was actually staying at our house down here in Mooresville, and I thought he'd already left the racetrack,

and we were over in the garage area getting the car through post-race inspection. And I just happened to look out on pit road, and there was a pickup truck sitting out there. And I saw somebody sitting up the back of the truck. This was maybe two hours after the race. And a bunch of fans still hanging around. And what it was, it was Davy sitting up the back of that pickup truck. And he signed every autograph until every single fan was gone. And, I mean, he couldn't even hardly stand up in Victory Lane.

But the difference between Ernie and Davy, both great race car drivers. Ernie didn't care if you put the front springs in the rear or the rear in the front, which they do that today, I think, but he did not care. Davey Allison wanted to know everything about that race car, and honestly, Davy made my job pretty easy. He knew what he wanted to do to that race car,

and 90% of the time, if I went with what he wanted to do, as hard-headed as he was, he'd make it work. You know, I remember one time at Daytona, you know I said we know we're going to stay out he said I want four tires he said you give me four tires I'll go up there and win this thing I said okay when we didn't win we ended up finishing second we pitted and about the top 20 cars stayed out I went I don't have a good feeling about this but he made it work just because that that's what he felt like he needed and he wanted to do that's interesting that you say it makes your job easier because you know when I hear cruci's talk about

drivers that have to know every little you know detail to the car that almost seems like that would be aggravating and annoying and that may be why you call him hard-headed. Am I wrong? Well, he just had these little quirks about him. You know, he, anytime he was in the race car and he'd go in the corner, and if the car rolled over, even if it was fast, he didn't like it. He said, you know, it makes me uncomfortable when the dash is down on the right. I said, well, hell, I know how to fix this. We'll start cocking the dashes in the car. When he goes in the corner, it'll be flat then. That's funny.

Yeah, but we ain't changing the... I had the same... A lot of drivers had the same sort of problem with the... We call it rolling over and rolling over on the right front. And I've told it talked that a million times and we would mount the seats in the car crooked.

You'd start... You gotta do what you gotta do. That's hysterical. We mount the seats over kind of too. And not even... When they started making inserts, we pour the insert tilted too. So, because it's true, man.

You ain't gonna take that out of the car. You know, you ain't gonna take that out of the car. You know, you ain't gonna take that roll out of the car. That's physics. Yeah. He'd get in the car sometimes for the first practice, and he'd look in the rearview mirror, and he wanted to see the jackboats the same height. Yeah. And he'd tell me, he'd get in there, and they maybe wouldn't be, he said, we've got a three-legged car. Hadn't he left the garage area. Yeah. And I figured out how to fix that. We'll just saw one of them off, and they'll be even no matter what we do.

That's amazing. That is. Did you meet him any? My assumption is, since you're from Birmingham and he's from Huey Town, you would have known him all his life. Is that, is that wrong or right? No. And that's where a lot of people linked him and I together is, you know, he's from Huey Town. I'm from right there, not far from Huey Town. That's how we got hooked up. I mean, I don't know that I ever really had a conversation with Davy Allison when I was still living in Birmingham, because about the time in 1980 that I moved to the Carolinas to go to work in NASCAR, Davy was really just starting to get his late model program going. Really the only Allison that I knew or had had any conversation with was Donnie Allison. But, you know, Davy and I, for, you know, the parked the cars in the garage area

by points, just like they do today. And for some reason there, you know, 1989, 1999, it just seemed like the 26 car that I was working on in the 28 car that he drove. We were always side by side in the garage area. And him and I just started having conversation. And we really had a lot of things in common. And he started hammering on me. He actually started hammering on me in 1989. He says, Larry Mack, if you'll just come over here and help me get this thing halfway pointed in the right direction, we will wear them out. And when I finally made the decision to go over there, he didn't lie.

I remember going back there in Robert Yates' engine shop when I heard the first engine on the dino. And I went back there and look at the numbers. I went, hell, I've been wasted my whole career chasing this mess. So let's talk about you. How did you, you didn't have any, your family didn't have much of a background in racing. So tell me how you'd stumble into racing. What was your first experience? Yeah, I mean, I was an only child.

And, yeah, nothing really in my family. I think I had an uncle that did some dirt racing or something down around Birmingham back in the day. But my grandfather, my mom's dad, and my aunt, who was really more like a sister to me because she was only 10 years older than I was. their house was only about half a mile from BIR, the racetrack there in Birmingham. And every Friday night, the three of us would walk down and go to the Friday night races. And then my aunt, she ended up getting married, and her husband was a big race fan. The four of us would go every Friday night. My aunt was a little bit of a hot rotter.

And so I was probably 1975, 76. I mean, I just was barely in high school, maybe a sophomore. They started this brand new division there called a streetstock hobby division. It was a one-page rule. You know, you took the windows out, you took the seats out, you put a few row bars in it, put the gas tank up in the trunk, put a number on it, boom, you got a race car. The first night, they only had two cars. But when they raced, my aunt looked over at my uncle and said, I believe I could do that.

Well, he was a mechanic. He said, well, I tell you what, you go out and find you some sponsors, and we'll build your race car. Well, she called his bluff, I'm sure, being a female in a male sport, and she went out and rounded up more sponsors around Birmingham than we almost could put on the car. And so my racing career started there, right there in the basement of their house, building her little street-stop late model. And at that point, I didn't know a three-quarter wrench from a three-quarter boat, A windshield from a wheel.

But that's how my racing career got going. And so you spend the next several years around the racetrack there in Birmingham? I did. You know, as you both know, racing is like a disease. It gets in your bloodstream and there's no getting it out. And, you know, there was not a lot of success with her racing venture, a lot just because of lack of funding. And so I actually was working my senior year in a job.

junkyard there in Birmingham. I'd go to school from 8 to 12, go out there and work in the junkyard, and then go work on race cars at night. And the junkyard that I worked for was sponsoring a local late model car. The owner was a guy by the name of Bobby Ray Jones, really a pretty renowned chassis builder around the Birmingham area. And so I went one night with the owner of the junkyard, Charles Finley, to Nashville where the car was going to race. And I just kind of jumped in and started helping them on the car. And Bobby Ray, the owner, at the end of the night, he said, if you ever get tired of working on your aunt's car, you come out here and start helping us. Well, that's all I needed to hear. Yeah. So I started working on that car, and I worked on those

cars for the next three years with a guy by name of Richard Orton, Dave Mader, the third, and then eventually Mike Alexander drove it the last couple of years that I was working there. At Nashville. Well, he was from Nashville, but we were keeping his cars. I know Mike ran Nashville. He did. He would go to Birmingham race to? What we would do, yeah, he did a deal with Bobby Ray Jones where they combined their equipment and we kept them in the Birmingham area.

And we would always run Birmingham on Friday night. There were some weekends we'd go north to Nashville on Saturday night. There were some weekends we'd go south of the Mobile of Pensacola on Saturday night. So there's five or six racetracks around the southeast that we would run over the course of a weekend. What was working with Dave Mader, like, because I know Dave, I know Dave Mader because he came to Moresville back in the early 90s, mid-90s, and opened up a slot car track, and I was over there every freaking night with Kenny Wallace. Oh, I remember y'all talking about that. I still have, I still have all of the slot cars that I bought from Dave Mader, and he was a good salesman. Yeah.

But he was a wheelman. He really was. We won a bunch of races. him driving that 11 car for Bobby Ray Jones. We actually won the 1978 Snowball Derby, beat Mark Martin by about the distance of this desk right here. Won a lot of big races that year. And he kind of hurt my feelings, but he flattered me

because I think at the end of 1978, maybe 79, he went to drive for a guy full-time out of Jackson, Mississippi, a cattle farmer. And we were winning so many races. It's like, man, Dave, you're running off and leaving us here, man. But then he tried to get me to come with him. It's like, you know, I just don't have a good feeling about moving to Jackson, Mississippi. As much as I'd love to work on race cars full time, I just don't have a good feeling.

And that's when Mike Alexander started driving for Bobby Ray. In the first race that Mike drove was a big race at Birmingham, and Mader and his group came up from Jackson. and I knew we were going to have our hands full because Mayter just got around BIR so good. He just had that special line. I don't know if you ever ran Birmingham, but it is a very unique racetrack. It was. And that first race, we beat him with Mike Alexander with the same car we had won all those races with with Dave, which was actually pretty rewarding.

Yeah. I'm curious. I'm going to throw a BIR name at you. I'm curious if you know it. If I brought up Henry Brooke, does that mean anything to you? Absolutely. Double zero. My cousin.

Yeah. How about that? My dad's cousin, my second cousin. Henry Brooke, my first ever race was at B.I.R. We lived in Birmingham, obviously. So my first ever race, when I was four, we would always go out and watch Henry. Yeah, I remember the name very much so, yeah. So what leads from there to getting your first opportunity in a cup series?

So, again, the anchoring to try to do something full-time in NASCAR, it was definitely growing. And now, you know, I'm 20, 21 years old. and I was working at this junkyard. After I graduated from high school, I went to work full time. And again, I'd work at that junkyard, Monday through Friday. What are you doing at the junkyard? Well, eventually, first was just pulling parts and eventually started working the counter. And I grew in the company, man.

I was going to say. I was going up. I don't know what other positions are at a junkyard other than those two, right? Exactly. So pull parts or sell them, one or two. So I'd work at that junkyard, Dale, and I'd work at that junkyard, Dale, and I'd leave that junkyard and I'd go through a drive-thew and I'd go out to Bobby Ray's shop and work on those late model cars many a night just in time to quit, go home, take a shower,

and go back to the junkyard. And it's like, you know, I know I'm young, 20, 21 years old. I'm not sure how long a man can do this. So things happen for a reason. God works in mysterious ways. We had a guy that ran the forklift at the junkyard. He always parked it at the back door and left the forks. up and I stayed on them. I said, you've got to lower those forks down to the ground. Somebody's

going to bust their head wide open. Lo and behold, I bailed out that door one day to go check some parts and he had those forklifts about head high and I centered it with my forehead. About 20 stitches had a concussion. So I'm at home. They wouldn't let me go to work for about a week or so. And I'm laying around July of 1980. I'm reading every magazine watching every soap opera you can watch. Well, NASCAR used to put a NASCAR newsletter out every month. And on the back was classified. It's people selling cars, buying cars, selling engine parts.

And I was reading it. And the very last classified was new NASCAR Cup Series team starting in Greenville, South Carolina, looking for mechanics and fabricator. Here's a number to call. Like, what have I got to lose? I'm going to call them. I'm probably one of about a million people calling, but I'm going to call them. So I called, and Bob Rogers was the guy starting team, and I actually talked to his daughter, Dana Williamson.

And she actually knew who I was because they had been running some late model stuff, and we had raced against them at Nashville and Birmingham. And I, you know, told her I was calling about Dad, and we chatted for five or ten minutes, and she said, you know, I'll get back to you. Of course, we didn't, nobody had cell phone. So I came home one afternoon from the junkyard. My mom said, Larry, a lady from Greenville, South Carolina called you today, And here's her number, want you to call her.

I couldn't dial that phone quick enough. And she said, we're coming to Birmingham on Labor Day to run this big late model race. We want you to go back to Greenville with us. We're still going to run two or three cup races this year to prepare for the full season in 81. So I worked on Mike Alexander's late model car all week long getting it ready for that race. They drove through the gate. I left that car and went over there and started working on their car. It's the only time that a car I wasn't working on,

I was actually pulling for another car to win the race, and Mike actually wanted to race that night. So I go back to Greenville, and it was a little bit of a trial deal. And, you know, they said, you know, you come work for us a couple of months. We'll see if we like you, if you like us. And after about two weeks. What was your responsibility? Just a mechanic.

Who was the crew chief? Raymond Kelly was a crew chief. Yeah, who's that? He's been in the sport for a long time. He was with Dick Brooks. He worked for Jim Testa when Lenny Pond drove for Jim Testa, I think was a 68 car. So he was the crew chief. And I was just a mechanic.

We only had three full-time employees. But after two weeks, they said, if you want a full-time job, you know, you've got it. So I flew back to Birmingham, got my little green pinto. Now, when I'm saying green, you've never seen a green like this green and hooked a U-Haul to it. Actually, when I hooked the U-Haul to it, the rear bumper started dragging the ground before ever put anything in it, but loaded it up up to the Carolina as I went. That makes it a true pinto. I mean, like, if you're going to go green pinto, go all the way. I've never seen a green like this in my life. What kind of green are we talking about? I'm trying to visualize.

The deepest green you could have, cucumber green, I guess is what it would be. Who drove the car those couple races at first year? So Don Sprowse, who was a local racer, him and Bob Rob Rogers. Bob was a guy that owned some body shops and some car leasing companies around Greenville. They were best friends, and they wanted to do this deal together. And we went and ran Martinsville and blew a right front tire and hit the wall, and that was the only car they had. So they just decided to abort the rest of 1980 because 80 to 81 was the transitions from the big cars to the small cars. and we started the 81 season, and that's when the first race of the year was Riverside.

Yes. And the three of us. Y'all went all the way out there? Oh, yeah, three of us in the cab of that hauler and drove to Riverside, had to leave like January 3rd or 4th to get out there. And it's the only time in my entire career of racing that we did not qualify. Didn't make the show out there at Riverside. Wow, y'all went all the way out there. I had to turn around and come back and went to Daytona.

Daytona 500 cool temperatures in February. Don fell out of the seat. Didn't take Don and Bob long to realize Don was way out of his league. And race number three. And I had nothing to do with. A lot of people thought I was behind this whole deal. They actually hired Mike Alexander to start driving that 37 car. Yeah.

So I remember this car. And Mike drove it for a handful of races, and Tim Richmond also drove it that year. What was the reason for the switch? Yeah, Mike, you know, got to where I think he was trying to over-extend the equipment. You know, no matter when in racing, you can't take a 15th-place car and try to run fifth with it. You'll end up on a rollback, and I think that's what Mike was trying to do. And then the car that Tim had been driving, it was sponsored by a, Uno, I think it was a 99 car.

D.K. O.R. Something kind of went a miss there. And so Tim had got with... It was, I think. It was, I think. So Tim had gotten somehow with Bob Rogers and they put this deal together and Tim drove the 37 last eight or ten races.

And we were that close to winning the Fall Charlotte race. Had a pretty good lead. Didn't have to make any more pit stops. And the motor grenaded with about 20 or 25 laps to go. Oh, my goodness.

That would a heartbreak. So when you were working on that car, just your first, I mean, you've been working on late models for years, so you knew craftsmanship and all that. When y'all were at the shop and, you know, working on this car and getting this car ready to take to the racetrack, had you been around other cup cars to kind of know, like, what y'all were up against? Or did you get to the racetrack and go, oh, man, you know, look at all this you know we got to go back home go to work a little bit well again i was i was

pretty wet behind the years you know i hadn't really been around cup stuff just just late models raymond kelly had been around for quite a while and in the other mechanic again there were just three of us full time we'd have guys that would come in at night and help us we had guys volunteers at the racetrack to help us pit the car and all bill miller's the other mechanic he'd been around for quite a while. So I was just trying to be like a sponge and just take all I could in and learn as much as I could as fast as I could. I was, me and some friends thought we had a buddy of mine that wanted to race.

And I thought, okay, we'll build a street stock. That'll be fun. We'll build a street stock for you right here in the shop. We got nothing better to do. And grabbed a rule book and building a streetstock and we got the racetrack. And as soon as we showed up, we're like, we're going to get our tails kicked. What in the hell are we thinking? We never went to the racetrack to see what the cars look like in the class we were racing against,

but we built it per the book, and we weren't even close. So I'm curious, you know, teams, at one point in this, at one point all the teams ended up being here. I mean, there were a couple satellite teams, and everybody's going to talk about furniture row and different teams like that. Even, heck, I mean, RCR was a satellite team up and welcome. That was a long ways away. at one point. But you guys were down in Spartanburg. This is early 80s.

So, you know, Bud Moore was in South Carolina. Teams were spread out back then. So when you showed up to the racetrack, did you kind of, you know, did you kind of get overwhelmed with, like, how much more knowledge that some of those guys, you know, those, like Bobby, if you look at Bobby Allison's car across the garage,

you're like, oh, man, we got a, we got a lot to, we got a lot more. more out of this thing we can we can yeah there there's no question as far as we were behind on everything we're behind on arrow you know we were what was arrow back then i don't know that we knew what arrow was you know i did not go to a wind tunnel dale probably till 1986 was my first time to go to the wind tunnel up in detroit when we started king racing so you know i i didn't know anything about Arrow. You know, all we worked on was mechanical grip.

It didn't matter if we were at Martinsville or Daytona. Just let's get these four tires to stick to this racetrack and see if we can make this thing handle. But, you know, the thing about it back then, Dale, and this is, you know, about the time your dad started running full-time cup, 80, 81, right in that area. You know, you could go to a racetrack, and I was looking back through some records the other day, you know, several races with Mike Alexander. we had top 10 finishes, eight laps down, 10 laps down, five laps down, still finishing the top 10.

People say they won't racing the way it used to be. You really don't. It really wasn't that good back then. Competition, there was a big gap between just even the top 10 or 12 teams. Yeah. What did you see working with Tim Richmond, those few races about his potential? Could you see it? I mean, he was.

Oh, yeah. The biggest thing I realized is his ability to drive a race car far exceeded our equipment. We went to Riverside, which again, Riverside also was the final race of the year in 1981. And he came down the front stretch one time hanging the gear shift lever out the window. He'd done ripped it out of the transmission. So it's like, well, what are we going to do here? So we came to Pitt Road and gave him a pair of vice grips and clipped some vice grips on it. And he says, put it in third gear.

I'll take care of it. And the next lap, he came down that long back straight away. And you could hear it on the rev limiter all the way down. It's like, no, we're going to put this thing in high gear. This thing is not going to make it. Holy crap. I've never heard this. That's amazing.

Yeah. It's like he said, the gear shift just came off guys. And he came down the front stretch driving one hand and hanging it out the left side window. That is incredible. He was a wild man, but talent, holy smoly, unbelievable. So what happened to that team? So Richmond moved on and I can't even remember who he went to drive for in 82. So Bob was still going to keep the team in track, on-tack for 82.

And he was going to do a little bit of a hosh-podge of drivers. We had Tom Sneva, the IndyCar driver that was going to come in and brought some Simon I, sponsorship. And that was only going to be a few races. And I don't know how they put these deals together, but Neil Bonnet was driving for the Wood Brothers, and the Wood brothers would not run the full schedule, but Warner Hodgton wanted Neil to run the full schedule.

So somehow they did a deal with Bob. It just happened the races that Sneva was not going to run, was the races that they needed Neil to run, so we hodgepodge's schedule together with Sneva and Neil. And we had some decent runs, but got to the Coke 600. Donnie Allison actually drove the car in the Coke 600. Donnie had run a few races as well because Sneva couldn't run all the races, even the ones that Simonized was sponsoring.

Coke 600, we came home, and Bob said, I just can't do it no more. I'm having to pull too much money out of my pocket, and he closed the doors. Right. Like you didn't see that coming? You know, I guess I didn't, you know, but I mean, I still was pretty, young and pretty naive and you know still pretty wet behind the ears in what I was doing what'd you do yeah well you're out of a job well Bob I wasn't I wasn't Bob had he had two daughters and from the time they hired me it's almost like he kind of took me under his wing I almost like

I was a son that he never had and actually I'm almost ashamed to tell you his nickname for me was baby boy baby boy baby boy all right well that's what he called me baby boy so he came to me and he shut the deal down. He said, baby boy, don't you worry. You'll always have a job. I don't know what I'm going to have you doing, but he said, the biggest thing I want you to do is help me get this thing ready for an auction.

And so I worked with an auction company for about two weeks, and we're getting, I think, mid-late June, and we had the auction, a two-day auction. Well, I still didn't know what I was going to do. I knew I did not move to the Carolinas to work at a car leasing company or in a body shop, but I wanted to get through this auction, breathe, and then figure out what was next. So Mark Martin, who was in his rookie season in 82, and his mom, Jackie, who kind of ran the team,

they came to the auction. And halfway through the second day, Jackie kind of cornered me, and she says, so what are you doing after this? I said, Jackie, I don't have no idea. She said, why don't you come up and see me next week? So got through the auction. I went up and visited her the next week. and I about fell out of my seat. They wanted me to be the crew chief for Mark.

I'd only been in the sport a year and a half. Mark's in his rookie season, and she said, look, don't worry. She said, Mark's going to call his own shots. We've got Herb now that's consulting us, but we're parting ways with the crew chief right now. Mark Reno was his crew chief. We just need somebody to come in and make sure what Mark wants done and what Herb wants done gets done.

Yeah. So I took the deal and finished out the rookie season with Mark as his crew chief. How was that? It was, I learned a lot, Dale. But I could tell, now I'm getting a little wiser and a little smarter. I could tell as the season was closing out that the funding was getting shorter and shorter and shorter. And so Jackie came to me about two or three races from the end of the year, and she said, we're going to run the full season, but we're done at the end of the year.

Just want to let you know. and I said, Jackie, look, Riverside's the last race of the year. Why don't we just lease mark a ride and not have the expense of taking our program out there? I'll go out there with him and help whatever I can do. She said, look, we started this season that we're going to run the full schedule and we're going to end it. I said, okay, let's drive to Riverside. Let's don't fly out there. So we loaded up in the hauler and a suburban and across the country we went,

and lo and behold, we ended up finishing things. And I was really glad we ended up going out there on our own. Man, I can't imagine. I mean, I used to get pumped up for the trip to Daytona because I would drive to Daytona every July all the way up until the 2008. You know, I was still driving to Daytona July just because it's just a fun trip. You know, we were flying everywhere by then. I cannot. Dale, I was 27 years old before I even knew what the inside of an airplane looked like.

I thought that was only what rich people did. I can't believe, y'all. I can't imagine driving all the way out there. We drove to Michigan, we drove to Pocono. I mean, we drove everywhere. My goodness. Yeah. I still, though, to finish fifth, that's a heck of a redemption to the first time you drove to Riverside, which.

It was a far cry from the beginning of 81. That still would give me nightmares just thinking about that. So you are, baby boy McReynolds is now found his groove. he's becoming wiser Mark Martin's deal folds at the end of the year so then what so had no idea

I'm beginning to see a pattern here I go to work for a race team and a few months later they fold and close the doors I'm about ready to go back to Birmingham so Tim Richmond had called me and said that this new team was starting

Blue Max racing owned by drag racer Raymond Beatle and you must have pretty good reputation by this point Exactly. You had, you know, Tim's calling you to say, hey, come over here. Goes an auction. Yeah, goes an auction and gets a job.

So, I mean, at this point, people are taking notice in your ability and your determination. You know, I don't know what ability I had. You know, the biggest thing I probably had in my portfolio at that point was I just, I worked hard. No matter what I did, where I went, you got 110% out of me from start. the finish of every single day and every single week. Tim called me and he said, why don't you call Tim Brewer? He's hiring everybody from scratch over there. So I went and talked to Tim and they hired me.

I was a truck driver and a tire specialist and mechanic. What did you think about Tim Brewer? I don't know if I'd want to be Tim Brewer, but I'd love to experience his confidence just for one day to see what that feels like. No, Tim's a great friend. He's a great guy. and I still call them a friend today, but yeah, not short on confidence. That's funny.

So you got a job over there. What was your responsibility? I drove the truck. Oh, man. I was a tire specialist. Had you been a truck driver? I had a CDL because, again, the three of us at Rogers, we rotated four hours, one in the driver's seat, one in the passenger's seat, one in the bunk.

And we had to fill those log books. out. I remember one time going in the state of Arizona, and he looked at our log books and walked back up and he said, okay, I'm looking to these log books. I want to know right here who was sitting on whose lap because you got both of you driving at the same time. That's funny. Oh, man. You're now off at Blue Max. Did you understand? So Raymond bought the MC Anderson team. He did. And which was a 27 car and had been around since 79. and was a good team.

Cale Yarborough, Vavilene, 27, Benny Parsons drove the car, Buddy Baker drove the car. So you, you know, did you realize, and this team would become a pretty formidable operation with old Milwaukee and Tim Richmond and turn into, you know, a championship team with Rusty Wallace and Kodiak.

Did you realize at that point, man, this is the first stable. This might be the ticket. This might be the one that lasts. No question. You know, because, you know, I'd been on these small teams, you know, Mark Martin, we had maybe six employees, Rogers. We had three full-time employees. And, you know, there's more people working in the fab shop up there at Blue Max than I had ever worked with in my entire career and got this major sponsor, old Milwaukee. And I left there after six races. There was a lot of egos in that building.

You had Tim Brewer, you had Harold Elliott, you had Harold Frog Fagan, you had Bobby Jones. There was a lot of fight at the top up there. And bills were not really getting paid. I was a tire guy, and I remember going to Darlington and parked the truck and loaded my wheels in the wagon and drug them down there to a good year. And Thurman Huggins, Huggins' tire, was standing at the door with his hand up like it, saying, need to take those rims back to your hauler. There hadn't been a tire bill paid all year long.

We'd had a paycheck or two that had bounced. And I said, you know, this big team stuff just didn't what it's cut out to be. So I left after the Darlington race. We went to Darlington. Brewer went down there and wrote a personal check to where they'd mount us enough tires to at least practice and qualify. and we sat on the pole and blew up halfway down the backstretch on lap one and that whole bunch I was talking out there. They were over fair fighting like cats and dogs at the back of the holler

and I said, enough. That literal fight? What do you mean? I won't say it was fist a cuff, but everybody was up in everybody's face and a lot of this finger point and it's your fault. The car's plummed wrong. The engine's blowing up. It's like, oh, no, I've had enough. I'm going back to Charlotte and get my stuff and I'm out of here. Man, you know, all of this I'm hearing, because, yeah, that, yeah, that, That was like the one, it would almost feel like the break you were waiting for all these years. And then it ends up sort of letting you down like all the other ones.

At this point, your confidence in this, you know, big, big time racing, was it leaving you? I mean, were you starting to think this wasn't what it was all cut out to be? Well, yes. I was second guessing myself a lot. And I was certainly contemplating just going back to Birmingham and going back to working that junkyard and having fun with late models again. And, you know, later on in the year, that team finally kind of dug their way out of some financial dire straits that they were in and to listen to the race on the radio and hear them winning races, it was kind of, you know,

that was like, oh, man, maybe I should have tried to stick the steel out. But it's, you know, it's like paychecks bouncing and the tire bill's not getting paid. This is what turned them around them? I don't know. I think they definitely made some personnel changes, no question. No question. That's interesting. Yeah, I didn't even know all that about the 2017 being that volatile there for the first half season.

But you're unemployed again after you left the team. Where do you go? So Bob Rogers had caught wind, and he wanted to go back racing on a much smaller scale. He wanted to do some Bush Grand National racing. And he talked to Butch Lindley, and Butch wanted to run a few races. So I moved back to Greenville, South Carolina, late April, early May, and Bob let me hire one other guy, and we bought a car from somebody, and we built a car there, built it actually down at Mike Loughlin's,

and ran two or three races, and I was down there. I remember like it was yesterday, just had got there one morning and was doing something on one of the cars, and Bob walked in and actually flipped the light switches off. It said, boys, I'm done. he folded 10 again folded camp again and i had met my wife linda we had met up in charlotte and we were engaged and she had moved back to greenville with me so here i am in greenville south carolina i'm engaged to be married and i'm unemployed again and it's like i have no idea what i'm going to do what was working

with butch lindley like really really learned a lot dale smart guy you know i've talked about working with Davey Allison how smart he was. And Butch, he knew everything he wanted to do. He wouldn't lift the finger building a car, but he would come down there as we were like building that short track car at Mike Loughlin's, and he would come and sit on a ladder and watch every move you would make. And then he'd get off that ladder and he'd come over and go, why don't we kind of do this right here and put this right here?

Maybe we can lighten that up just a little bit. But he was really smart. And, you know, you could make a change on that car and not even tell him what you changed, but he would be able to tell you what you changed in rough. If you put a hundred pounds soft to right front spring in it and you didn't tell him what you'd do, he'd say you actually soften the right front spring a little bit. I can kind of feel it right there. He just had that good of a feel for the race car.

Wow. So Bob was that when Butch got hurt? Was he driving that car? No, no, he was actually driving for Frankie Grill. Okay. So that was about two years later. Yeah, 85's when Butch got hurt. So Bob just walks in out of nowhere and shuts the place back down.

What happened to all the cars and stuff? Well, we just had totally destroyed a brand new short track car at Langley, Virginia. Yeah. We built this short track car, and Dale, it was slight. you couldn't even, you had to be careful leaning over the fender to work on the engine. The biggest problem we had was where we could put all the lead. And we went to Langley, Virginia. Honestly, the car still needed four days of work to even go to Langley.

I mean, we took shoe polish and put a number on the side of the car, no paint, no nothing. The close outs between the hood and the windshield didn't have time to make those. I took some cardboard and taped it in there. Went up there. Tom Ellis sat on the pole and Butch said, sat on the outside pole. And both of them broke the track record. And I was so tired, I didn't even care

because I hadn't been to bed probably in four or five days. I remember sitting in a lawn chair there in the pits, and him and Tommy ran door handle the door handle for 50 laps. This one would lead a little bit, butch would lead a little bit, door handle to door handle. And Glenn Jarrett, driving an old car out of Spartanburg, South Carolina,

been sitting on pit road for about 20 laps with an oil leak. he finally left pit road and you exited pit road at Langley right in the middle of turn one Glenn drove off pit road drove right in the side of Tommy Tommy got in the side of Butch and last I seen a butch in our brand new race car

it was wheels up going over the fence at Langley destroyed that car Man was he hurt No no but car was destroyed because again the thing was like a piece of tin foil yeah that's why I asked He was fine but car can't say the car was gone.

It was right after that that Bob pretty much said I'm done again. So what did you do? So I'm sitting at the apartment. Linda was working for an orthodontist, and there was a local businessman that had some late model cars, Bill Terry. They called him Big Daddy. And he got in touch with me and said,

What's you doing, baby boy? He called me Baby Boy, too. And I said, I'm doing nothing. He said, I know you didn't move up here to work on late models. but I tell you what, you come out here. All he did was run a couple of cars at Greenville Pickens every Saturday night. He said, you come out here and work at my shop. We'll go race on Saturday night.

We'll go back to the shop. I'll pay you $400 cash, and you tell me if you want to work the next week. It's like, I've got to make some money. That sounds good to me. At least I'll be racing until something else can come along. So we got to late July, early August. I'd been doing that for about two months, and we were having fun, winning some races with a guy by the name of Donny Bishop down there.

I noticed one night there was a guy I recognized, but I didn't recognize him. He kind of kept hanging out around the back of the trailer. And after the race, we loaded the car up, and he came up and introduced himself as Bobby Hawkins. And he says, what are you going to do moving forward? You want to get back in cup racing? I said, there's no question. He said, well, I don't know if you know it. I own the car that David Pearson drives, the Chattanooga Choo Car.

the 16 car and he said we're trying to hire somebody to work on those cars he said would you be interested and so I went and met with him the next week and this would have been early August of 83 and the shop was in Spartanburg and David's shop and I was actually one of the only few people in the shop that didn't have the last name Pearson it was David and all of his boys and I was really the only guy that worked for Bobby the boys worked for David and it was a it was a very very very cool deal. I mean, A, I'm working for the Silver Fox for David Pearson. And limited schedule, you know, only ran about 10 or 12 races a year. And I was about to get married in October that year. So it was really the perfect scenario for me. I did not know you worked on that car.

I did. Yeah. The end of 83 and the entire 84 season. Wow. Bang, man. That's pretty cool. So what was, I kind of vaguely remember that being David's last kind of last few years in the cup series. What was working in that program like? I mean, I know obviously it was pretty awesome to be around David Pearson, but from a competitive standpoint. And did you guys meet your expectations and objectives and what was sort of the fate of that program? I think with the status of it, with the money that was being spent, and with, to your point, David kind of being at the tail of his career,

and he was not a young man by no means at that point. And only running, even back then, it was still hard to run a limited schedule. And, you know, I think we were meeting the expectations of David and Bobby Hawkins, and quite honestly, even the Chattanooga Chew people. We knew we could go, and we were probably going to finish somewhere between 8th and 15th. We're always going to qualify up front. No question about that with David Pearson, especially some racetracks you went to,

but you knew that's kind of where you were going to run, which was probably some of the best runs that I'd been a part of. And then again, I was still probably a little bit starstruck because here I am working with David Pearson on his pit crew. What was he like as a person? We know driver, you know, one of the best of all time, but what was David Pearson like? He was a lot of fun to be around.

He really, really was. He enjoyed life. He had fun. He, you know, again, running that limited schedule. He'd walk in there on Friday, and he'd shut the lights off. He said, boys, we're done for the day. And I'd go like I was going to leave. He said, no, no, no, no.

I don't mean we're done here in Spartanburg, but we're done here at the shop. We're going to go play golf this afternoon. And he would not let me go home. I had to go play golf with him and the boys. But he was a lot of fun to be around. That's a good story. Was he still running the short track stuff then? Because I know he had some short track cars.

No, because he had started running Larry, his son, his oldest son, out of that same shop, and they were running all the Bush Grand National races. So that shop wasn't much bigger than twice the size of this studio right here, but we had two cup cars and Larry had two Bush Grand National cars, and we were running them out of that same shop. That's wild. That's a packed shop. Yeah, it was definitely 50 pounds in a 10-pound bag.

So Hawkins partnered up with Kenny Bernstein to form a race team together. How to bridge that gap between working with Pearson and Hawkins on in that car and then what they became together with Bernstein? So at the end of 84, David knew 85 was going to be his last year. And I think he wanted to give it the best effort he could. So he took the Chattanooga-Chue sponsorship to Hawesellington. Well, that kind of left that 16 car without anything. So, again, I was the only employee for Bobby.

So we moved what equipment Bobby had in Spartanburg, and one race car, tractor and trailer, we brought it back to Travelers Rest South Carolina, right outside of Greenville. And Bobby said, I don't know what we're going to do. You've got a job. Just help me get all my stuff in order and figure out where we're at. Well, this kind of went on through the off season,

and then we kind of get it in the 85 season. and I went and met Bobby one day. I said, what are we going to do? I can't clean any more floors or polish any more rims. It's as clean as I can get it. And I'm just sitting over there twiddling my thumbs. And he said, what do you want to do? And I said, well, how about let's build a short track cup car and let's see if we can get Butch Lindley to drive it? He said, you think you can get Bush to do it? I said, well, I'll hire you a guy or two and let's do it. So we spent the first part of 85 building this double throw down short track car. Butch agreed to drive it.

And we were going to go run Wilkesboro and Martinsville. They were almost back-to-back weeks, but we were going to go test Wilkesboro. And we built a car down at Mike Loughlin's and really put a lot of time and effort into this thing. Just tried to dot every eye and cross every T. And I called Butch about a week before we were going to go test Wilkesboro. And I said, Butch, I need you to come by the shop here. we need to get you fitted to the seat and the pedals and the steering and all that he said can you wait till Friday this was like Wednesday he said can you wait to Friday Joan and I and Tonya's daughter we're going to go to Florida and I'm going to run a late model race for frankie grill and I'll come by there on my way out so he stopped there Friday morning and we got everything fitted and he drove on to Bradington and I was working seven days a week on his car and I got home about 11 o'clock Saturday night about 1.30 2 o'clock my phone rang I don't remember who

call me and said that he had been in a bad wreck down at DeSoto Speedway and his head had hit the wall and he wasn't even sure he was going to make it. And out of respect to him, we didn't go to Wilkesboro. Got this car here. Went and met with Bobby. He said, what do you want to do? I said, I think we can get Morgan Shepherd to drive this thing. So we hauled that thing up there on an open trailer.

What did this car look like? It was red, white, and blue, 16. Okay. You had Carolina two on the side? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we go up there to Martinsville, qualified in the top five and was running third. And halfway through the race,

cut a left rear tire down and spun. And there used to be a small opening in the inside wall at Martinsville. You could walk through. That thing caught that opening. Oh, man. Ripped it like a can opener. Oh, man.

Destroyed that car. So I go to Bobby and I said, what do you want to do now? He says, what do you want to do? I said, well, we got Morgan. Morgan will run some more. races, why don't we build a not a super speedway car, but a car to run Charlotte, Darlington, places like that.

He said, let's do it. Spent the whole summer building this car, me and another guy, built it down at Loughlands again, went to Darlington. When you say built a car at Loughlands, like, so today we get a, we will get a chassis, and we'll build this car from the chassis, bear chassis up in this building back here in my fab shop and that's how most race teams are doing it right they're building their own chassis and we get our stuff from hendrick and build the chassis but you would go to law like race teams didn't have chassis uh builders you went to loughlin to get your chassis you went to hutchton pagan

and so when you say build the car were you there uh when you build the chassis there with those guys and then put the body on it there and then fit it out and put the crush panels and all in it there How far long did you go at Loughlands before you'd bring the car home? We would build it out completely because I was really good friends and pretty close with Mike. And we didn't have a lot of equipment at our shop. And again, there was only two employees. So Mike and them built the surface plate car. You know, and then we put the body on there because he had some good fabricators.

And then we just finished the car out because we had a lot more resources and stuff to work with than we did it. shop. It just made it. Yeah. And you know, Mike, he ran it to the last minute getting us the surface plate car done. Never was on time with it. Yeah. So we built that car. Go to Darlington, qualified pretty good and blew up. Went to Charlotte and finished seventh or eighth. And then this is where the whole Kenny Bernstein deal came about. Ralph Sieve Graves was a good friend with a friend of Bobby Hawkins, guy by name of Clyde Brookshire. And Bernstein and, he said, and, he said, Sea Graves were tight because of the drag racing stuff with Winston. Bernstein had this sponsorship, Quaker State.

He already had a driver tied with the sponsor Joe Rutman. He just didn't have a race team to take it to. Well, Sea Graves got with Clyde about getting with Bobby to see if maybe there's a way that Bobby and Bernstein could do a joint effort here since Kenny had the sponsor and we had the race team. So they put a deal together. We were going to go run Atlanta, and this is about two weeks. out from Atlanta.

And it didn't take long to realize. They struck a deal, but it took about a week to realize Bobby was a phenomenal businessman. Bernstein was, but their philosophies was night and day difference. So about a week before Atlanta, Kenny and John Dangler, his partner came to Greenville, went and played golf with Bobby about halfway through the golf game. They said, we're going to offer you a deal. You can't refuse. We're going to buy you out.

And the thing that was flattering is Bobby, agreed to do it under one condition that they had to keep me employed for at least one year, which was very flattering. And so we went to Atlanta, actually still under the Carolina II banner, but that car was already owned by Kenny Bernstein. And we actually finished fifth at Atlanta with Morgan that year. And you come out with the most job security you've ever had probably, but the year, at least, you know, a promise, you know, part of a deal.

I mean, like, that had to been nice. It was. you know, it seemed like every owner I worked with, I became very close to. And that was very overwhelming that that's the only way he would sell that deal is if they would sign an agreement to keep me employed for at least one year. That's a heck of a reputation that you had established. So, man, that is interesting. So that's how the Kenny Bernstein, like, this is when now, like, you know, what I remember,

what year would this be, like 20, or like 80s, 70, 8,000, headed to the 86 was going to the full season for the 26 Quaker State car. So you changed the number to 26. Yep, yeah. Why to do that? I don't know where the 26 number came from. You know, that's an interesting question. I have no idea where that came from.

Because I never would have linked the 16 car and the 26 together. Yeah. Didn't even know they were the same operation. It was the same operation, but everything else about it was different. Yeah. So Kenny gave you kind of the keys to the kingdom, and you were the general. GM type kind of guy.

I was everything. But you weren't the crew chief. No. And y'all looked for a crew chief. Had Enman was a possible candidate for a crew chief, Gary Nelson was a candidate, and then eventually Kenny Bernstein says that, hey, you ought to do it. Yeah.

Yeah, Kenny, we came home from Atlanta, and he kind of saw that I was the guy in charge, whatever you're going to call me, crew chief, whatever. And he put me in charge of, of doing everything, getting the cars built, getting people hired, getting equipment bought. I was making hotel reservations and plane reservations, but he said, you're also in charge of hiring us a crew chief. He said, and I hope that doesn't offend you, but he said, I feel like we need to go to battle our first year with a seasoned veteran. And I won't say he gave me an open

checkbook to hire this crew chief, but money was not, not a issue. The issue was where we were located. Nobody wanted to move to Greenville and nobody wanted to commute two hours each way. So Kenny came to town early January and we were about a week away from going to test at Daytona and had the two speedway cars all but done. Ready to go test. Rockingham cars, pretty good shape. Everything's looking good. And they came to town. We went to lunch and he said, give me an update on everything. And I updated them on everything. As I said, Kenny, I have emptied the bucket and I cannot find of crew chief. And I said, it's not money. It's where we're located. And him and John kind of looked at each other and chatted for a minute. And he said, we know why you can't find one. I said,

you mind sharing with me? Why? I've exhausted every effort I know. He said, because we got the guy sitting right here at this lunch table. Me? He said, you can do it. He said, I've watched you. I watched you at Atlanta during that race weekend. I've watched you this whole offseason. You can do it as good as anybody. And I said, okay, if I'm going to walk this plank, you're going to walk this plank with me. You're not going to bail on me halfway down this plank. And I still talk to Kenny today. I'm indebted to a lot of people, but no question. He probably goes to the top of the sheet because he took a chance on a guy that nobody else would. And I wouldn't have blamed anybody. I'd only been in the sport for four or five years. Closed I'd been to Victory Lane was

walking by it on pit roads. I know, but four or five years. I know. But four or five years, He packs a lot into four or five years. I know. It seems like you might have had four or five years, but it seems like you had 10 or 12 of experience at this point. Or maybe 20 or 25. Yeah. It felt like a cat that was living nine lives. So Morgan drove the car the year before in 85,

and then when you go with Kenny Bernstein, number 26th, Quaker State full-time, Ruttman's, Joe Rutman's the driver. How did y'all land on Joe? Joe was part of the Quaker State deal. Oh, okay. And that all happened well before my time of coming. I don't know how it came about. How'd you like working with him?

He was fun to work with. And you know, you knew there were some tracks you were going to go to and you were going to run well. There were some tracks you were not going to run well. We almost won the second race of the year at Richmond. When your dad and DW and Bowdine piled up down there and turned three or four, we were running fourth. And I don't know what my man Rutman did.

He cleared the wreck, but I think he got to turn three and forgot to turn or forgot to back off and spun out. And here comes Kyle, almost a lap down, got by us. Joe got the car refired, and we ended up finishing second. Wow. Well, hell, this isn't so hard after all. That's interesting. Rutman seems like he's, where does he live now? Where is Rutman?

Last I heard, he lived over in Nashville, Tennessee or is that right? He seems like he's driven from everybody by. He was a real interesting character. I used to go to the racetrack and wear the suit and everything when I was like 15, 14, whatever. And I had the team suit and all that. We had a, was it, Pocono, is a rain delay. And I'm standing out by the car. They're like, hey, go out there and start taking the car cover off of it or whatever, right?

So I'm out by the car and nobody else is really out on pit road yet. But here comes Ruttman. I think he was driving the 75 dinner bill car. Okay. He comes walking by, and he looks at me, and he looks at dad's car, and dad's car's got tire marks from bumper to bumper on the left side of it. And he looks, he knows who I, I mean, he's, I'm a kid. I'm not no, you know, he looks at me, he looks at car, and goes,

that guy right there is running to everybody today. He looks like, I was like, man, what a jerk. but he had a unique personality. So Morgan gets back in the car in 87. Why? Rutman was good, you know? I mean, Rutman ends up going and driving trucks for Rouse and has this, you know, has a reasonable career.

What was the reason to go back to Morgan? Well, you know, I think Kenny was pretty impressed with how we ran with Morgan on that kind of a shoestring deal in 85. and there were some things between him and Rutman on the business side. I don't know that they parted ways because of on track, I think was more off track stuff on the business side. So I think in Kenny's mind it was kind of a no-brainer. Let's go get this guy that I watched this team fifth at Atlanta,

seventh or eighth at Charlotte. If we can put him in this car now, we can probably go out there and win some races. And I was all for it because I really enjoyed working with Morgan. Morgan was kind of a unique personality. as well. I just was looking at a Winston Cup scene or something the other day

from back when he was driving the five car, Cliff Champion. Bill Champion? Bill, no. What's a guy? Cliff Stewart. Cliff Stewart.

Yeah, okay. Cliff Stewart and Boobie Harrington was the general manager and they had a literal fist fight in the garage at Talladega. I guess that was 85 or 84. I don't know when it was. Probably earlier that.

Probably a little earlier than that, yeah. And I knew that Morgan, Morgan was opinionated. I don't know Morgan like you know more. You worked with him. I don't know him. I'm assuming. I'm making assumptions. But he come across to me as he easily got, he had a very short patience out, you know,

for trying to get his cars the way he thought they needed to be. He was, because he worked on him. He drove short track cars, race short track cars, and probably it was as hard-headed as anybody about what needed to be under the car. Is that something, would I be close? No, you're on top of it. Because Morgan, and I love Morgan to death. I call him a friend today, stand in the garage here, talk to him.

The way where you race Tim and 85 was, you want to run this race, we'll give you 50% of the purse, we'll run a race, and then we'll see where we go next. Couldn't ask for a better driver. humble, great to work with. You sign him to that contract, then it becomes the world,

according to mortgage. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Not to mention, he'd won in 86 his first race with the Race Hill Farms guys. So he's at this point, you know, I remember when he won that race at Atlanta,

it was like he'd arrived. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, he comes to the shop and he wants to take the cars to his shop and cut all the snouts off and move all the pivot points. That's making sense.

And that was the world I live. than 1987. I mean, we had some good runs. But, you know, gosh, it's like we can't reinvent the wheel here. Let's just try to make sure we keep getting these basics right each week. I wonder how he got, I reckon that that's why he worked out so well or found some sort of sense of stability and longevity with the Wood Brothers, because he goes there and I'm sure that they turned that, they sure they turned that hose off right away as soon as he got there

with them with them ideas and ambitions they were like no we're not going to have that and i'm still i'm still a little naive so it's like i'm walking a tightrope i'm sure i hadn't won a race yet yeah 1989 rickie rudd oh yeah uh we've had rickie here at this table awesome conversation pretty cool guy um how did you enjoy working with him yeah and when he left at the end of 89, my feelings were hurt because I felt like we were getting there. So he started driving that car in 88. Okay. And, you know, we went in one, Watkins Glen. But Bernstein had hired an engine builder out of California by the name of Ron Armstrong. Niceest, smartest guy you could ever sit down and have a conversation with. Made tons of horsepower, but durability was not priority.

We blew up 11 times in 1988. Seven of them leading the race. Four of them, including the first trip to Phoenix, less than 25 laps to go. Oh, good gracious. When you got a Quaker State oil sponsorship, you can't blow 11 races. Right. So we're still in Greenville, South Carolina. Kenny came to me right after the 88 season.

He said, I think I can fix our engine program. He said, I can hire Lou La Rosa. But he said, there's one stipulation. We've got to move the team to Charlotte. I said, Kenny, let's go find a shop. We can't keep doing this. We've got good race cars. We've got this Buick figured out, but we're blowing up every week.

And we moved to Huntersville, North Carolina, right down there at exit 23. And Lou came in and fixed our problem. We went from blowing up 11 races in 88 to Sears Diehardt used to pay an award for who ran the most miles over the course of a season. and we won that award in 1989, and we ended up winning the first trip out to Sonoma with Ricky. So we got to talk about Wilkesport then, don't we? I mean, we're talking about Rudd, and we're talking about, you know, racing. I mean, listen, I can still hear the clip with you,

which was a fantastic interview. I mean, what kind of vantage point can you give us? We've heard Ricky Rudd tell the story. Chocolate Myers told the story. Now, Baby Boy. Well, there's no doubt, and I don't know the history why, but there was something about Wilkesboro, and your dad and Ricky Rudd was like oil and water.

It just, I went there four races with Ricky, and it was almost the same thing every single race. But yeah, 1989, no question in the early part of the race. It's the three and the 26. And they started beating and banging on each other, I think on the damn pace laps. and 20 laps in the race, they're still all over the top of each other,

but the class of the field. So I go down to the three pits. I walked. I wasn't running. I wasn't waving more arms. Really, I just wanted to get to Kirk or Richard and say, look, you call your dog off. I'll call my dog off and let's race this thing out to the end.

I took one step in their pits. One of them had me around the head, one of them had me around their waist, two had my legs and threw me out of the pits. For real? Oh, I got in trouble with NASCAR because Dick Beatty, you don't go to somebody else's pits. And, of course, we all know what happened on that last lap.

And probably not what your dad wanted to hear once I started working with him. I said, you're hard-headed thing. If you'd let us win that race, we'd have got our second win, and you won your eighth championship. For sure. You said that to him. Oh, yeah. When you guys worked together.

Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's funny. And I won't tell you what he told me back. Come on. He protested, I bet. I bet he did not see it the way you did. He did not. But truth be known, it was his side, Rudd's side, and what was the real story?

The interesting side for me was Rudd's. Because, I mean, obviously, I'd lived Dad's side and had this sort of opinion of the whole thing up to this point. And then to hear Rudd talk about their relationship from the minute that sort of dad shoehorn him out of the children's deal when he had felt like he had helped that children's deal get to a certain point and it was sort of something that he was building for himself really soured their relationship and it he's him and daddy was not friendly for many many years but your dad would would mess with him like like Rudd one time he told me says make sure before

he wore those bubble goggles and they came in those little boxes and we'd sit the box upon the dash he'd always tell me he said make sure before the race don't put that box up on the dash he said Earnhardt last year came and slid him out of the box and drew little eyeballs on the on the goggles and slid the goggles back in the box he said I went to put my goggles on I had a little eyeballs drawn on oh Jesus that's funny that was a lot of pranks a lot of pranks a lot of pranks dad and Rusty used to have putting sardines under the seat and crazy stuff like that. I mean. I remember one time at Riverside, I don't remember who pulled it on them.

But Bud Moore and them, they used to be the last ones to get to the garage in the morning. You know, it wasn't like today. Everybody didn't walk in there as soon as that gate open. You might come 15 minutes later, 20, and they were the first ones to leave. Dad may have been behind this one. They took and took the car cover off Bud's car and pushed his car. race car around the edge of the garage area and pulled a little old Honda Civic up in the garage. Oh my goodness.

And put the car cover over. Oh, my God. Here come those guys about 30 minutes after the garage open. I still remember old Bud kind of look. Oh, that's funny, man. What a great idea. So Brett Bedine drives a 26 car. I remember this because it was just, you ain't going to feel this way because you were living

it and working on this car, but this was an upset. You know, regardless of the success of the 26th car with Ricky Rudd in previous years, you and Brett, the team was kind of having an up and down year, but y'all go to North Wiltsboro and just destroyed everybody. I experienced this from the Paddock area on top of a comfort coach van, and all of the kids of the

drivers and crew chiefs all sat on top of these vans. So I'm sitting on my van with Brad Means, Jimmy Means, son, 10 feet away's Heidi Bodine, Brett's daughter, and Barry and all them from Jeff. And, man, we were always winning and running good. And here they are destroying us. And that was probably the moment where I recognized you, I guess, for your talent and your ability. Brett's a great driver. I mean, we'd seen him racing in a sportsman series driving for my granddaddy

and the Thomas Brothers Country Ham car and just having all kinds of good success there and knew he was a driver, but nobody goes to Wiltsboro and destroys the field like that. I mean, do you even think about that race? Does this even rank up in any kind of moment in your career? But for me, it's a standout.

moment for you. For me, it's a moment where you kind of checked all the boxes which led to your ascension into the Yates program. Yeah. Yeah, it was because A, it was my first Oval Track win. You know, you go to Watkins Glen, you know what?

You should win with Ricky Rudd. You go to Sonoma, road course, you should win with Ricky Rudd. Just make sure the eyes are dotted and the T's across. But Wilkesboro hadn't qualified that good, but there was something about that car. in final practice Saturday afternoon.

I stood down in the corner. Garage was down in one and two. And that thing would turn before it would get to the center of the corner. And you could just see that thing squat and take that bite off the corner. It's doing the same thing down in three and four. And I knew as we made about a 30-lap run in final practice, thinking to myself and looked at the stopwatch, I said, I don't know what he's feeling.

I didn't talk to him and let him make his run. I don't know what we could change on this thing. And he made that 30-lap run. He pulled it in the garage area. He said, we'll change something if you won't, but I swear to God, I don't know what to tell you to change on it. I said, I see the same thing. Let's get it ready to race. And, you know, there was the scoring issue that DW is still mad about, even today.

Explain it. Yeah, what happened? Because I don't even know nothing. We had made a green flag pit stop as others had. And in the middle of those green flag pit stops, the caution came. And you didn't have electronic scoring. It was men and women in a scoring stand with pad and paper. That's right.

Keeping scoring. So the pace car picked us up, but it actually had us a lap on the field. Well, I knew that wasn't right. I felt like we were still leading the race because most of the leaders had pitted. And we had made up so much ground on those fresh tires. So when the pace car picked us up, you know, everybody pitted again. And Brett's raising cane. I think we're in 30-something laps of caution trying to sort this score and deal out.

And finally, they came and said 26 cars as a leader. And Brett's raising cane on the radio, I said, stop. I don't know what else to do for you, man. You got four fresh tires and you're the leader of the race. Right. I got nothing more for you. DW was upset. He'd still bring it up even to me after we started doing the Fox Steel.

I said, look, you had 60 laps to get by us and you couldn't do it. Not what he wanted to hear. He thought he was the leader? He did. He thought we were a lap down. We actually, they had us a lap on the field. We should have just been the leader, you know, on the leader. Sure, he thought you were a lap down.

Y'all feels, in my mind, it seems like y'all led that whole race pretty much. We did lead quite a bit. We did lead quite a bit, but the whole snafu was that caution that fell in the middle of green flags cycle pit stops with no electronic scoring. It was a dumpster fire. So is that, did you start getting phone calls at the during that year, like immediately after that, or when did things start taking off for you to make a change? So actually, at the end of 89, Robert and Davy sniffed that Rudd was going to be leaving.

Yeah. And I had went and met with them in the first. front of their hauler at the Phoenix race at the end of 89. And it's a little embarrassing, but I shook Robert's hand and took a deal for 1990 to go do the 28 car. And we went to, there used to be an off week between Phoenix and Atlanta, and we went down and tested Atlanta during the off weekend. And I couldn't get this off my mind.

I just, I just wasn't happy with my decision, not because of going to work with Robert Yates and Davey Allison, but my, my commitment. to Kenny Bernstein. This man had given me a chance that nobody else would have. I built this team pretty much from the very beginning, and I just was getting cold feet. So I remember during lunch one day at the test going across the street to 7-11 to a pay phone and calling Robert, and I say,

I know you're going to think I'm not very much of a man because I know I shook your hand, but I can't do it. And here's why. And he said, Larry, I'm not happy, but I totally respect where you're coming. from you need to be commended for what what you're actually doing here so i stayed with the 26th car through the 90 season started the 91 season and and it was hit and miss dale we you know it's like we could get the we could get the car good and we the engine was not where it should be we just it's like we just couldn't connect all these dots consistently so we go to atlanta third or fourth race of of 91

set on the outside the front row and we're just we just couldn't connect all these dots consistently and we go to atlanta we're we only got about 20 or 30 laps run because the rain moved in but davy had crashed real early and jake elder who was a crew chief refused to fix the car they loaded it up and came home wow yeah just that just was jake yeah so we go back racing on monday and we blew up 20 30 laps running well inside the top five we blew up 30 40 laps into the race restarting so linda and at that time our two kids We were in the minivan driving home. I bet you Linda and I didn't say five words to each other driving home. Wasn't that I was mad at her.

I just like, what in the hell? So we get home and her and the kids go inside. I knew Bernstein was going to be calling me. And it didn't matter if we wrecked, if we blew up, if the gear tore up, I was the whipping child for Kenny. And I knew he was going to be calling. Because again, he didn't get to go to that many races because of drag racing. So get home.

I started unloading the van. I said, Linda, if anybody calls, I'm not here. I don't want to deal with it today. So I'm unloading the van. I heard the phone ring. I'm out in the garage, and she came to the door and said, telephone Larry. She's like, really?

She said, you might want to take this call. So I answered, Larry Mack, Robert Yates. He said, I know where you stand. I know where you're at. But I'm going to make a crew chief change in the morning. and I just want to know, is there any possibility your interest is? I said, when and where do you want to meet? We met at the Waffle House down on Sunset Boulevard,

sat there from about 10 o'clock that night to 4 in the morning on Tuesday morning and struck a deal. That's how you do it. Waffle House, as anyone went, all-nighter to Waffle House. They didn't run us out of there because we've been sitting there all night long. And all-nighter to Wobble House. Scattered, smothered, covered chunked. That's a great way to end this conversation. Well, it's a great way to pause the conversation until next time because we've got a,

that's, yeah, we knew that this was just so much going on here that we wanted to tackle into. But that was, that's an amazing first half of your career right there, I guess, is a good way to put it. Yeah, are we even halfway? Yeah. I appreciate you diving into the history there. And we want to get you back on the show and obviously go through Davy and the rest of the things that you got going on all the way up until what you're doing today. as an analyst for Fox. But that's pretty amazing, man, to learn.

That's part of your, I mean, I know you from my knowledge of being around the sport, but what you told us today is something I did not know about you, something I'd not be able to learn only from you yourself is how you got started. A pretty phenomenal story. We appreciate you giving us some time to come tell it today, and we'll be in touch with you to try to get you back. on here as soon as we can to finish this out. I'd love to come back and tell the rest of the story.

I love this show you're doing, and you know, the biggest thing I want to share with you is that this, that's not 61 years old. That's two years of working with the intimidator right there. That's funny. We'll dive into it next time we get you on here. I can't wait to talk about it and hear what your side of it is, man. But we just appreciate you. Appreciate everything you mean to the sport and the impact.

that you have on it and sharing some time. It's been fun. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We're live. Okay, let's get to my favorite part of the show every week. That's right.

Ask Junior brought to you by our friends at Xfinity Podcast Partner and Premier Partner of NASCAR. Let's hear what you sent at Xfinity Racing. Leobon is here with the question. Let's go. Our first question is from Matt Gunjack, talking about Bristol last weekend. He wants to know, should there be a new rule applied for short tracks that if you're more than 10 laps down and struggle to keep pace that you should be parked lap cars seem to be really bad Saturday night yeah so it's my opinion that the minimum speed

in NASCAR is too slow so NASCAR has a minimum speed rule and if you don't meet that minimum speed they will tell you and you have like one opportunity to come down pit road work on your car and go back out and try to meet minimum speed and if you don't meet minimum speed and if you don't don't you got to park and i think they parked or told brack haslowski that he he needed to come down to pit road and and do something to his car to be able to improve and i think they did but in my opinion minimum speed has always been way too slow um i don't know what the equation is or how to factor in like different size tracks uh maybe there should be a different equation or different way to figure out that formula for each each racetrack but yeah i've always felt like minimum speed was was uh

too slow. I mean, you're, you're, they, I don't know what the point is of making it so slow, uh, or why they make it so slow, but I thought they should make it, they should, it should be a tougher requirement. Our next question is coming from Robert Hedges. Um, he wants to, uh, to know with Texas losing race next year due to the all-star race being held there, what track would you like to see get that spot? And I know I've seen some rumors about Circuit of America's getting that.

Um, any, anything on that? Yeah, I think we could see a couple new road courses on the Cup schedule next year. And, you know, I'm a big fan of getting back to Nashville Fairgrounds or adding more short tracks. And I know that we're reconfiguring Fontana to a small half-mile racetrack, but I'm not in love of that idea until I see it in action. This is not a, for me being the short track, more short track kind of guy campaigning for more short tracks, I'm not pumping my fist about this Fontana deal until I see the track and cars go around it and whether it's a racy thing.

Only because they're taking something and trying to mold it into something else, and that's tricky and risky. It might not work. The transitions could be all weird, but we'll see how it all ends up. If it is successful, that'll be great to have another short track, especially out there on the West Coast, because I always felt like when NASCAR was trying to win the market

beyond west of the Mississippi, we needed to send them Bristol. We needed to send a Bristol-style experience out to the West Coast to sort of get that market. and grow the fan base on that side of the country. And I still feel that way, and maybe this will be it. You know, road courses are exciting. They put on some really great action.

Adding road courses as a viewer for me is an exciting idea, but you can never add enough short tracks. And I don't see us adding them at the rate that I would hope. I want more short tracks, and I'm not getting them. He's angry. On that topic, Jared Rector, he wants to know what tracks you would like to see out to the expeditty schedule. Nashville Fairgrounds is at the top of my list for everything.

I'm thinking today about sushi or a field cheese steak, but probably Nashville Fairgrounds for lunch. Martinsville was a great addition. We haven't even raced there, and I'm excited about that. I hope that, you know, maybe I can run in that race next year. And, but more short tracks, man, I love taking our cars. I love being an owner and taking our race cars and sending them to the short tracks. And, you know, South Boston, places like that would be great to have back on the schedule.

And I know it probably goes against the business model. It does. You're shaking your head, Matt, but it taking a, you know, leaving Indianapolis Motor speedway for South Boston is not a great business decision. We're not going to sell a partnership sponsor for as much money going to South Boston as we would being on the main stage in Indy. But I'd love for us to go back to IRP, you know, South Ball, all the short tracks that we used to race at.

It'd be cool. Maybe if the Xfinity Series, their first race was in New Smyrna a week before the Daytona. Oh, wow. I've never even thought of that. That would be killing. That's a great idea. Go to New Smyrano the Saturday before Daytona and race a short track to open the season. That would be insane.

That would be awesome. Kick off speed. I don't know. More short tracks, man. Austin Creel is on YouTube with us. And he said, speaking of Nashville, what do you think about the IndyCar Grand Prix there next year? Oh, yeah. That's pretty cool.

It is. You know, I love this sort of influx of. racing coming back to that that part of the country. We're going to go and race on that concrete. What is that? A mile and a half, what is it? Mile and a quarter. A little over a mile.

Yeah, whatever. Well, we're going back to Nashville. And I wasn't in love with the idea. It was actually heartbreaking because we were hoping to get to the fairgrounds and it ended up being this other thing. And I was extremely negative and critical of that decision. I am warming up to the idea that, Being in Nashville is a good thing, especially for celebrating our champion in that town.

We definitely need to be racing there. Again, that's still an hour outside of town. But I think this is great, you know, bringing motorsports into having a street circuit. It sounds like it's going to be crazy racing down there around the stadium and back across a bridge or something. I don't know. I've been seeing some little pieces of this deal as it's been coming together over the last year. and pretty incredible to watch something basically be built from scratch. The whole idea.

It doesn't happen. And there's so many regulations and loopholes and challenges for a group of guys to get together and say, hey, we want to take and we're going to have a race in this town on the streets. I mean, think about the – As busy as that town is, yeah. Think about the dang red tape and all the trouble and its challenges to get through that process. congratulations. That must have been a ton of hard work to check all those boxes. All right. One more question for Megan Nielsen. She wants to know if you are ready for baby number two.

And how's Amy doing? Oh, man. She's doing great. We're terrified. I'm terrified. Amy's not terrified. Amy is not terrified. She's excited. I'm super nervous because it's really right here. We're just a couple weeks away. So getting real nervous. I got to see it in the car. got my bag ready you know we're getting it's like we're ready just for you know that moment where she goes it's happening let's go you know

and I'm just thinking that could be any minute now so I'm very nervous only that everything goes the way it's supposed to go and that you that I'm not somewhere away from her like you know doing a podcast or or calling a race

I'm hoping that I'm sitting right on sitting right beside her on the couch when she hops up and goes, let's go. But I can't, you know, I can't wait. I can't wait to meet her. So it's going to be awesome. All right. That's all for today, guys.

All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for the question. Some great questions today. I hope everybody's having a great day. We got a lot to be excited about, a lot to be happy about Xfinity Series playoffs are starting. We've got next round of the Cup Series playoffs kicking off here in Vegas. It's going to be a pretty awesome weekend of racing. And we've got some great podcast coming up too, man.

We've got a couple guests lined up already for the next couple of weeks. Thank you guys are going to love. I love hearing the questions that come from fans, Mike. This segment's always a blast. It goes by too fast, though. Every week it's fast. Just like Xfinity Internet, it's extremely fast. Xfinity X-Fi keeps me connected.

Honestly, I can't think of a better way to stay up to speed with NASCAR and Dirtymo Media and everything else. You heard it here, folks. Don't forget, Dale's here at the table every week to answer your questions. So get those brains working, get creative, and hit us up at at Xfinity Racing on Twitter using the hashtag Ask Jr. for a chance to hear from Dell himself. And one more thing before we wrap up, Mike. A big thanks to Xfinity for being a premier partner of NASCAR. Odd history.

Hey, Elvis! Since we are headed to Vegas, why not share an old odd history about Elvis? The story starts with a man named Lynn Fowler. He was a local Tennessee racer in the 70s racing at Keen Sport Speedway in the late model sportsman ranks. Fowler had seen his shares of ups and downs. and bad luck. As an underfunded effort, he felt embarrassed,

so he took some time off to get his stuff right. He shed the heavy old Chevelle in favor of a leaner Nova. He got a new engine, but ended up buying a cheap oil filter and blew up the motor. Regardless, in the spring of 1976, Fowler was trying to work his way into contention. Now, he just needs a sponsor. Did he ask his local gas station? Nah. A local Kingsport Hotel or restaurant.

Nope. He asked Elvis. Yep, Elvis Presley. Fowler was a big fan of the kingdom of rock and roll. He even purchased tickets to see him tour when he came to town. But weeks before Elvis was set to roll into Tennessee, Lynn sent a registered letter to Elvis asking him to sponsor his race car. Loretta Lynn sponsors one or two of those things, said Fowler. He also pointed out that Elvis at the time was often giving away Cadillacs

and that, quote, the price of one Cadillac would just do fine. The certified letter only costs Fowler 57 cents, which Fowler said was worth the attempt because what can you buy in racing for 57 cents? A half a gallon of gas? That's funny. The letter was marked as received, but Fowler admitted that it was probably just tore up and thrown in the trash, and he stood a little chance,

but he still dreamt of the opportunity to go see Elvis Presley in concert and maybe just maybe get him to sponsor his race car. Only one of the two happened. Last call. Last call. All right. Mr. September. When you think of fall in September, what numbers come to mind?

Mike? Well, Harry Gant was Mr. September, wasn't he? Yeah. So, was he 33? Yes. Yeah, that would be it. That would be the number that comes to my mind. Well, how about number seven?

Did not come to my mind. You see, the word September comes from the Latin root septum. Meaning seven. Originally, the Roman calendar had September as the seventh month of the calendar, not the ninth like it is now. How about that? And then Harry Gant would not be Mr. September. Well, he actually drove a seven, too.

He did. We're rolling through September in style, guys. How about Josh Barry? Last week, he swept the twin features at Hickory Murder Speedway on Saturday night, then he towed to Southern National in Kenley, North Carolina, and one on Sunday. He leads the NASCAR Advanced Auto Parts Weekly Series Division I Point Standings. That's basically the national championship.

That's a big deal. It's 25 starts counting towards that title with 24 top 10 finishes and 15 wins. 17 total wins for the season out of that shop. Doing it. Yeah. Doing it. Two drivers from Hickory are on top of the standings with Barry Leading Ryan Millington. Hickory producing them, man.

Oh, yeah. Speaking of September and fall, we're going to go to Twitter with something. Leavon has the pumpkin craze. Has it gone too far? Are we all pro-pumpkin in here? I mean, in October I'm pro-prone. pumpkin. I'm not. What is this even about? Why not in September?

Because it's too early. What it comes about is an argument here because she thinks we're gone overboard on pumpkin and it's too damn early to be pumpkin. It's too early for pumpkin. Fall literally just started yesterday. So I guess... Falls is pumpkins. Yeah. And it just started yesterday. Pumpkins is not just a Halloween thing. Pumpkin spice has been out for six weeks. Pumpkins...

All right folks. Is pumpkin a Halloween thing? Is it an October thing? It's a fall thing. It's a fall thing. It's a Which it's fall now. Just started yesterday. P-SL. He's drinking pumpkin spice lottees for the last six weeks. I've got pumpkins all over the house.

They're out on the front porch. Damn straight. Ila's walking around with them. Pro pumpkin. We're painting pumpkins. It's fine in fall. Why you've got to be hating on the pumpkin? I don't want to gloss over the fact that Dillner literally is drinking a pumpkin

spice latte right now. So basic. Yeah. Of course he is. I can't get past that. All right. There's a new time for the Dale Jr. Download this week.

It's on Friday. September 25th at 8 p.m. Larry McReynolds. The debut is Friday, September 25th, Friday, Friday night, 8 p.m. All right, guys. We'll have a show. We will have a show on Wednesday night. We just don't, it's going to be a re-air of one of our older programs. So the first time that Larry's show is, just to clarify it for you. Thank you. Very good. Very good. Thank you. Thank you. Mark Martin. All right. Mark Martin. Out of the sky. Mark Martin. Out of the sky.

Close us to the f*** out, he says. He's getting sassy. All right, great show, guys. I appreciate everybody. Hope you have a great week. And, yeah, that's it. And yeah. And yeah.

Have a great week. So does that constitute as close us the f*** out right there? I'm ready to go. We're ready to go. And we're off. Bye-bye. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Dirty Moe