The Dale Jr. Download - 317 - Mike Skinner: Damn Renegades

Episode Date: September 30, 2020

In one of the most wide-open episodes of all-time, former NASCAR driver Mike Skinner brings a new level of honesty and badassery to the table, in a much awaited conversation with Dale Earnhardt Jr.Skinner holds nothing back as he talks about his rough upbringing and how working in the oil fields of Colorado was the start of a journey that led to stock car racing fame. From drinking, out-running cops and smoking weed to out-running some of the best Short Track racers in America, his early days paint the picture of a true renegade racer. That mentality is what attracted legendary car owner Richard Childress, although their first phone call didn't go as planned. Learn how Skinner actually turned down the opportunity of a lifetime because of a simple misunderstanding. Skinner tells Dale Jr. and co-host Mike Davis how beer drinking and raising hell was the best preparation he ever had for getting in the racecar. The Truck Series Champion talks about the big move to the Cup Series and a two car team at RCR, and how Dale Earnhardt wasn't very keen on having a teammate. The rocky relationship and some brutal crashes led the veteran racer down a path of headache and heartache that almost did him in. How bad were some of his concussions? Skinner shares never before heard details of the damage occurred during those wrecks. He also shares intimate details, that take Dale Jr. by surprise, of why he decided to hang up the helmet after a successful second career in the Truck Series.The DJD gang were thrown a curveball in AskJr presented by Xfinity when two young Xfinity drivers hit Dale Jr. up with questions. Chase Briscoe wants him at the Chili Bowl. So, will Dale Jr. be a volunteer / work-for-beer crew member at the Chili Bowl? Then, Dale gives Harrison Burton a masters-class on his approach to drafting. Like that wasn't enough? Dale Jr. gets chippy about the rumors of making Bristol a dirt track for a race and has a very simple and authoritative solution. JRM driver Noah Gragson had to deal with a nose-bleed while driving last week, and that prompts Dale to share a story of the time that a bloody nose may have helped him avoid a fight with Chad Knaus.Ya think we're done? Nope. Dale Jr. shares his love of vintage t-shirts and what makes the best ones in Valvoline Originals. Odd History uncovers a tale of Bobby Allison and a trailer speed record. Dale Jr. also tells us how a turkey ended up in a Virginia homeowner's bathroom. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This is a production of Dirty Mo Media. A pithers still swarming with active. Earnhardt's not heard. That car will still run. He'll make it back to the pits and out of the race. At 195 miles per hour, it was a nightmare. Get ready. It's the Dell Jr. Download.

Boom. Here's the show. Hey, everybody. It's Dale Jr. Welcome to another episode of the Dale Jr. Download. I am your host, Dale Inhart Jr. And my co-host, Mike.

Hey, Mike. Leah is here Matthew Dillner is at home Hey Matthew He's muted He's muted, okay That's the way we like Matthew Yeah

We Yeah so we're going to do Asch Jr. is going to be At the top of the show We were going to have an open segment But me and Mike really can't even decide What to talk about on our open segment We were going to talk about its schedule

But it's all hearsay So I'm not going to sit here and blow smoke Okay, here we go. Did I say that right? Oh, yeah, you nailed that one. It's my favorite part of the show. That's right, it's Ask Junior, brought to you by our friends at Xfinity.

They're our podcast partner, and they're also a career partner of NASCAR. So before we're going to bring in our guests, it's going to be time to hear your questions that you send Xfinity racing. Leiavonne, are you ready? Absolutely. You got some great questions?

I do. I have some great questions from some great people. The first one being Chase Briscoe. Really? Yes. Shut up. Yeah. All right, Chase. Chase Brisco wants to know when are you going to come race or just come hang out at the chili bowl?

Oh, my gosh. I'm scared of getting the chili bowl flu or whatever that is. Being in that building with all them fumes and the people. Of course, I think I would. enjoy, I don't know, I don't think I'll ever race in it. I'm never going to race it. Let's be honest. Never going to race it. It's an amazing event that I have to see it.

I have to see at some point in my life. And I probably should go now while my immune system is at its peak and not wait until I'm an old man and easily overcome by such things as a chili bowl flu. So, yeah, Chase. I mean, is he going to race in this? Can I go with him? If I'm going to the Chili Bowl, I'm not just going to show up and start wondering around. I want to be part of something.

I know Alex Bowman's asked me to go a couple times and said I could help with the team and whatnot, and I don't mind doing all that. I work. Give me a T-shirt. Give me a team shirt, and I'll scrape mud or whatever I got to do. Scrake mud. Yeah, you know, they go out there and they run, they get a little mud on the car, and you can come in there and scrape it off.

Clean it up. I can do that. So give me an invite someone And I'll become I'll come and be part of the team as long as the beer is free I have to drink beer every single night And sometimes in the afternoon It's very important for the mud scraper to be drinking beer actually Sure

All right All right our next question coming from Harrison Burton Is this a driver's only asked junior They saw it on Xfinity's Twitter And they just jumped in Nice. So Harrison Burton, any tips on Super Speedways asking for a friend? Yeah, so I'll tell him the same thing I told Chase Briscoe and a few other guys.

You know, basically, I love to sit down with Harrison or the younger guys and literally with a couple matchbox cars and go over how I feel like the draft works. And even though the rules change, the draft in a sense stays the same, the techniques are the same and i and i try to help guys understand either using maxbox cars or a video of some of the things that i think are important to understand to know and but it really boils down to one easy clear philosophy in plate racing and that is to lead every lap right lead every lap be on lead every lap, be at the front, every single lap. And that's impossible, right?

So it's not a possible thing. But if you go in, if you're racing every corner, every inch of the track with that in mind, that you're always trying to be leading, then you're always on the offense. You're never timid or cautious. Any time that I've ever ran a plate race where I wasn't up on the wheel,

trying to lead every lap. Anytime I was cautious trying to take care of my stuff or riding in the back in extreme cases, it never worked out. It never succeeded, and it was always frustrating

to have done that sort of method throughout the race and ended up with no result. The races where I succeeded were the ones where I was always attacking, taking every run. Right before these guys will go race at Talladega

if anybody texts me, Alex Bowman or anybody, I have a conversation with any driver, any friend, always say, take every run, that's going to be my last text to him leading into a plate race. Because that's really the attitude you need to have. Take every single run all day long, and some will work, some will not work, and it's okay. But you learn something every time you try something, right?

and when it comes down to it at the end of the race, you're going to have the knowledge and so much experience built up over the laps during the race to have confidence in what you're going to try, what you're going to do, what you're going to need to do to win the race on those last few lapses, the last couple of moves, you'll have so much information and knowledge to be able to make the right choice. The guy that's cautious that doesn't race, that doesn't take every run, that rides in the back in extreme cases has no information, has no understanding of what

is cars capable of, what it's not capable of, and really how the draft's working that particular day. What things are more productive and what about the draft is not productive? The draft changes slightly every time we go back to those racetracks, even if the rules don't change, there's something a little unique. Maybe it's because of the dynamic weather or the time. dynamic track surface. And you need to learn as you're going.

So I hope that helps everybody understand the method. It's hard to go into every plate race with that kind of mentality. Like that, I'm going to attack, attack, attack from the drop of the green flag. I'm attacking every corner. I'm never going to let off, never going to stop trying to pass somebody. It's hard to do that because you're mentally stressing yourself out, really working hard. mentally the whole race, but that's the method that works the best or when I've had the most success. I remember when we ran Daytona in 2014. I mean, there were some times when, you know,

we were leading the race and I think Greg Biffle got on my outside at one point and I was like squeezing him into the wall and I was like an inch off his door and he's an inch off the wall and I knew he was probably thinking, what in the hell is he doing? Why is he doing this? But it was like you had to or you were going to lose the lead. and that was going to lose the race. You just got to kind of be on this, got to be on that attitude, the whole race. All right, we're out of driver questions.

But we still have good questions. Yeah, we need more questions. The first one coming from Jacob Lee, he said Cori LaJoy Spotter said he spot the wrong car at Vegas, and on doorbell cleared, TJ said that he has done that a few times. Do you remember a time when TJ? I can't remember one exactly, but TJ would come across the radio and say outside, outside, and I'm like, there's nobody there.

I know you're spotting the wrong car. And it's fun to, because it opens the door to give T.J. a hard time, which is always good. But I imagine it must be difficult because the spotters, like, especially at Talladega, like they literally have to spot through binoculars. I don't really, I want to look through binoculars and see if that's a nice looking buck or not, but I'm not going to sit there and watch him for four hours. Right. I mean, I'm just saying, like, you got to follow the car around the whole racetrack, the whole time.

Come up rare. Yeah, that doesn't sound fun at all. So I can, I can, you know, empathize with having that, you know, making that mistake. And they're looking down at, you know, they got these, I don't know, they got stuff, tools. They're talking to the crew chief on the other channel. They're distracted at times as opposed to what they're. You know, it's supposed to watching the car so I can understand how they might look away and then look back and pick the wrong car. But it's always frustrating when you're driving and the car comes up on your outside or inside and they say nothing.

You're like, hey, wake up. That's happened too. Oh, gosh. So it's not as bad. It's kind of laughable when they spot the wrong car, but when they not spot at all, that's when you get angry. Makes sense. Yeah. All right, Jared Lyons is watching on YouTube.

He wants to know, what are your thoughts on the rumor of Bristol becoming a dirt race next season? Do you have any other ideas you want to see at Bristol? Yeah. Besides that. Pretty much anything. Of course. I bet everybody can guess what I'm going to say. Pave it.

Asphalt. Stop this nonsense. You know, I'm not in favor of, unpopular opinion. I don't like the idea. That's not unpopular here. I like the idea. of them running dirt, but I don't like it at Bristol, running on a real dirt track.

I think it would be cool for them to run dirt. I'm not sure exactly where that would be. I don't know enough, I guess, about the various options as far as tracks across the country that would, you know, a dirt track racer would probably be able to help us understand, okay, you know, they probably would have a great race here due to the type of dirt it is, the type of track and banking transitions and so forth.

I don't think even maybe dirt racers want to see them take Bristol and turn it into a, you know, a half-hearted attempt at a dirt track. I mean, that can't be easy to do to haul all that in there and put it down and get it back up. Why? Why? They've done it before for a late model race, but it even then... Pave it. He goes to his asphalt. Pave it.

If you're going to put all this trouble, if you're going to go through all this trouble, pave the race. What the hell? I wish, God, late. I wish I could have control for like one day and everything I said that they needed to do, they had to do. That's funny.

You know, like when you hear presidential elections, like my first day in office, I'm doing this. His first day in office, and maybe his only day in office, he's paving Bristol. Yeah, asphalt Bristol, man. And then maybe Nashville, fairgrounds, though. Yeah, I think there's probably a long list.

I don't love it. I don't love it. I don't wish it to succeed. You know, I'm certain that it's probably, if it's already gotten to this point, I'm afraid that it's going to happen. Yeah, I'm afraid that it's probably going to happen. But not thrilled about it. All right.

Olivia Muldgin, she sees your Noah Gragson shirt. What did she think of Noah's nosebleed on Saturday? and you shared a funny story on the broadcast about one of your own nosebleeds in the car. Yeah, that was funny. We were racing at Sonoma, and it must have been I was a rookie year, 2001, because Chad Canals was crew chiefing for,

he was crew chief in the mailing car, the nine, who was driving it? Stacey Compton, thank you, Matthew. Stacey Compton, it was black and green, Codiac, I believe, was a sponsor. And we're like running 12th. something like that with like a couple laps to go and all of a sudden like with five laps to go everybody just starts dumping everybody it's like oh boom you're out knock you out of the way

and this guy's getting knocked out of the way and I think we're probably around 19th and then ended up finishing 11th or something in the race because all these guys are just getting spun out and all these corners and I'm like well okay so I went down into the corner and dumped stacey we had not touched the whole race he had not done nothing to me and but I got to his bumper and was like, I'll just knock you out of the way and that'll be be another spot. And so I had had a nosebleed during the race. I used to have nosebleeds all, every day.

Like when I was 12, 13, 14, I mean, it was nice if you went without one. I was having them so often. And know all the tricks to getting them to stop. But anyhow, by this point in my life, I'm not having them all that often, but I wasn't any surprised. It was very hot inside the car. I don't know if that had anything to do with it. And probably I'd probably drank a lot, so my blow was probably pretty thin. That's true.

So I had a nosebleed during the race, and I think, you know, I pull in, and I forgot about that at that point. And Chad Canals, I'm sitting in my... my car undoing my belts, got my helmet off, and I turn and look, and chackin' house is walking toward me, and I'm like, oh, crap. I mean, I don't have very good, I don't have good positioning in here to do anything if he's trying to swing on me, because he might. And he looks at me, and I guess he saw the blood all over my face, because by that point, it was kind of just everywhere. And he just looked at me, and he just had this puzzled look on his face, and he's like five, feet from the car. He didn't come all the way up there. He didn't say anything or nothing. He turns around

and walked off. And I thought, I bet he thinks somebody's already punched me. I don't want him to think that. Like, damn, I've pissed everybody off. And he's late. Somebody already got to you. So when Noah had one in the car this weekend, it made me laugh. All right. That's all for today, guys. Man, appreciate everybody tuning in. Thanks for the questions from the drivers. I know the fans, you know, that took a couple questions from some fans, but we always enjoy when the industry interacts with our show.

And appreciate that. Leah, I wish we could spend more time, though, get more questions because it goes by pretty quick. Every week it's fast. You know what? It's just like Xfinity Internet. A lot of speed. Yeah, X-Fi keeps me connected. I simply can't think of a better way

to stay up to speed with NASCAR in Dirtymoe Media. All right, folks, don't forget Dale's here at the table every week to answer your questions, so think of some good stuff and hit us up at At Xfinity Racing on Twitter using the hashtag Ask Junior for a chance to hear from Dale himself. One more thing before we move on, Mike. Big thanks to Xfinity for being a premier partner of NASCAR.

All right, everybody, let's bring in our guest. Mike Skinner. There he comes. Come on and have a seat. Oh, Skinner is locked on to the rear bumper. Like Labonte had a trailer hitch. Single file off the corner of the body. Can't get there.

Mike Skinner will go to victory lane. At the strike, give the win to truck number three. It is going to Darnell. How about that finish? Is that the wife she came? Angie's here? Hey, Angie's here. Hey, Angie.

Hey, the more famous, Skinner. Yes. I was so excited. I thought they were going to give me a job. I was waiting for my junior mask. I was going to come out of retirement. And then a guy come over and gave me a broom. Oh, yeah.

Well, you know, everybody's got to start somewhere right here, right? And plus, we got some dirty floors. Yeah, well, Mike, thanks for coming. Thank you, man. Thanks for having me. We've been wanting to get you on the show for a while now. And we've had a couple of good runs. A lot of people that we've had on recently, you've been mentioned a little bit.

That's right. that's usually not good. No, it's, and we actually had McRendell's on here last week, and we didn't even get to that part of his career between you and when he worked with dad and all that. His, we wanted to know so much about how he started out. And I kind of want to do the same thing with you. Okay.

So I'll tell you kind of what I know or remember about your career, but I know there's a lot more to it, and I want you kind of feel in the blanks. But the first time, that I ever saw Mike Skinner in person was at the end of the year Myrtle Beach Speedway late model stock race. I knew that Mike had ran some Xfinity races, and I think at the time you might have already agreed to doing the truck for Richard, and this was kind of like the last kind of late model

stock race that you were running this gold car, I think, number 51? Coors Extra Gold. Yes. Yeah. For Gene Petty, actually, Richard Petty's first guest. Who David Hider would end up driving for. Yeah. Actually, I drove for him after David.

No kidding. Yeah. Well, David must have drove for him again in this red eight because I race David a couple of times and he worked for Gene at the time. But Gene was an amazing owner, first class operation, unbeatable race cars. Yeah. Our cars were good. Yes. And this is Richard Petty's cousin.

Is that right? First cousin, yeah. First cousin. Yeah. Gene Petty. So, I'm just getting. into late models. I don't know nothing.

And we were at a, I think it was the first year I was at the beach. And my stuff was ragged. I'd crashed it, mourn it out, but we were at the last race of the year and about 10 cars or 10 trailers down was the gold 51 with Skinner. And it was a big deal because Mike had,

you know, was going to go truck racing for RCR. He's like, wow, here's everybody, at least me, I'm looking at it going, that's the path. Right? If you're a guy, like, think about it, Mike. So I'm, like everybody else there, dreaming of trying to get to wherever, the next level. And here's a guy who's doing it, right?

And this is a way to get there. These cars, these late mall cars is a way to get there. So that was the first time I remember seeing you. I don't remember how the weekend went, but... Do you? Went real good for me. Did it? Did you win?

Yeah. He won. Well, okay. It went all right. But I remember, Dale was struggling. Yeah. And they came over and said, you know, can you help us? You know, where you're at?

And we're like, well, what do you got under your car? And I forget exactly what they had. So, well, I don't know if it'll help you, but here's what we have. Here's the springs. And this is, you know, I think we might have changed rear shocks or something like I forgot what it was. But we picked, your car picked up and you made the race. It's a hard race to make. There'd be 100, 120 cars trying to make the feel.

So it was a tough race. It was tough. But it was so awesome. And then you go on to do the truck anyways. Otherwise, I only know what I've seen in pictures. And since you started racing and got into Cup, obviously, everybody started talking more about where you came from in your story. And so I learned a little bit about that along the way. But tell me, let's go ahead and fill the gaps.

So where, what? how did you get into racing? Did you have, was your family in it? Did you grow up around it? Were you going to the racetrack as a little kid with your family, uncle, or dad, or what? How did racing first sort of get introduced to you? Not really. I was, you know, a broken home situation.

My mom and dad divorced. I ran two or three go-kart races when I was really young. How? They just took me and we got in a quarter-midget type. I guess they were, I don't know if they were even call quarter-midgets back then, but that's basically what they were. you know and it was just for fun and then i uh i had a 71 roadrunner and they asked me if i could be the trophy car so i show up and and you know had a pretty girl in the car and she kisses

the guy whatever a week later i got ran off the road and the insurance company totaled the car so my my good friend alan cossick he was another guy in the well drilling business he's winning all the short track races it was a half mile dirt track and Susanville. What state? California. And he said, man, we need to make, we call them hard tops back then because we need make a hard top by that thing.

That thing's fast. And, you know, you're always out running the cops. You're crazy. You probably do really well. Wait. Wait, yeah. We can't just gloss over that. You're out running cops.

Well, yeah, we had to because we was always drinking and smoking weed and was a bunch of renegade, you know. And so we put a roll cage in it, cut the windows out, whatever. and so I'll never forget the first race they made me start in the back. I just blew right past everybody and had about a half a lap on second place. I get the white flag come off a turn two. I could have just shut it off and coasted around, but I wasn't smart enough.

Well, you saw the rest of my career. You saw how I drove. And the right front ball joint broke. The thing flips end over in a couple times, ends up on its roof. I'm sitting there laying upside down. down and my face is burning. There's battery. It broke the battery. Battery acid is dropping on my face and I can't get out of the seatbelt. So I finally, the seatbelt finally comes open. I hit my head. I crawl out from underneath the car and kick the side of the car and broke my big toe.

That was my only injury. Big toe broke. Kicking the car. Yeah, and a little burn. But I was in cowboy boots. As one would be. I guess we had to ask, what kind of kid were you? I think, you know, when Mike Skinner was a teenager, what kind of teenager were you? You know, I wasn't, I was kind of a late bloomer, I guess. I mean, I was a, by the time I got to be a teenager, you know, much into my teenagers. I left home. I was 15 years old and went to Colorado and went to work in the oil fields. And a little boy becomes a man pretty quick. because you have no choice.

Why did you leave home? My stepfather was mean to my mom, and I tried to kill him, and I didn't. And this prison guard says, hey, I've got to get you out of here, else you'll be back there. I'll be out there. I'll be guarding you. My mom had a little tavern. And so he took me to the Greyhound bus station. The prison guard did.

Yeah. And said. How do you know this prison guard? Because he was a customer of my mom's and friends with my mom. and he said, I got to get you out of here. And he went in there. He said, where you want to go? Well, my girlfriend had just, her parents had just moved her to Craig, Colorado.

And I said, I want to go to Craig Colorado. So he goes in and buys me a one-way bus ticket, comes back out, here's your ticket, handing me a $100 bill. He says, you're on your own, pal. That's unreal. You are 15? Yeah. Leaving home.

Was your family already broken? I mean, like, had your parents already divorced? No, my mom was still with, yeah, my real father, my mom, had remarried and my stepfather, which I took his name, Skinner, he was a Skinner. Oh, so you're not originally a Skinner? You'll love this, Dale. I was Mike Quick. What a great racing name that would have been.

No kidding. But I changed my name. I never. You know what's funny? It's like when back when I was just starting to run a couple of Xfinity races, we did stupid stuff with our helmets, right? We put dumb decals on them. Mine, I got the Mr.

They had this Mr. Goodrich quickly. lubes in Cal. I remember that. And I took the Mr. and the Quick and put it on the visor part on my own face helmet. That's classic. That could have been you. That would have been your real helmet. You would have been Mr. Quick.

I never got it legally done until we went to Japan. Oh, my God. I couldn't get a passport. You were Mr. Quick all these years and we didn't even know it. Right. I got married. I had children, my social security. I mean, how do you do that?

Think about the T-shirt sale. I know. I missed the boat, man. Mr. Quicks. Lake Speed never capitalized on him. I mean, right. You had Mr. Quick and Lake Speed on the same track. Nobody ever knew.

Mr. Speed. This sounds like that by the skinnier teeth, like you were lucky to survive sort of all these things happen. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Probably. Just, like to get, like to end up in that sandy infield and Myrtle Beach, right, much less in a, in, you know, went in truck races, cup races, and to go on and do everything you did. Do you look back on those times that you're telling us about right now and go, man, that was a

close one. Or if this one little thing, because I know doing my genealogy, I know there's a lot of events that have happened in the last hundreds of years that would have quite possibly made me impossible. Right? So do you think about those times and go, man, I was lucky for. for that guy, that prison guard sending me down the road, or I was lucky that I was smart enough at 15 to work hard in the moll fields

and get myself out of there. I do. I really think about it a lot. Because I'm feeling some anxiety, and I'm just hearing the story. It's helping me understand sort of how precarious your situation was. I was very, very lucky. It's really strange because David Hider was driving. for Gene in that red eight I believe it was and I was I built my own car and used to

build my own motors and I beat beat him at a big 300 lapper at caraway it had a caution late and David's like you that car was always in its own zip code yeah and they were way faster than we were all day and I just just it was go time man I manned up and I went up there and knock hydro out of the way and won the race well I came I had a body shop and I came home from work one day and Gene Petty's sitting in my yard. I'm like, oh, man, what's going on here? I was kind of intimidated. I didn't know what was going on. And he said, I want you to drive my race car for me. And I said, what? I said, what's wrong with David? He says, we're not, I'm not going to, David's not going to drive for him anymore. Like, okay.

I said, what's it going to pay? He says, well, I'll give you $300 a week. And I think it was 30% of the purse, something like that. Well, okay. You know, I said, I own a body shop. I got to make a living. My ex-wife, she kind of ran the body shop after that. And I went to work for Gene, working on race cars every day. That's pretty incredible. So before racing for Gene, you raced and built your own cars, built your own motors.

Is it late model stocks? And my first cup car in 1986. Okay, we'll get there. Wow, yeah. So was there street stocks? you know, Chargers limited as anything. So you... Just the Roadrunner.

The Roadrunner, and then you jumped down a late model stock car. No, I went from the Roadrunner to the Open Comp cars out west, which was... What would that be like? Like what the ASA was back here with less rules. You could run any motor you wanted, you know, big carburetors, whatever. Who were you racing against? Dick Trickle. Wow.

Ruttman. Yeah. Oh, my God. There's a guy named Larry Deegence. You remember Larry DeGence? He got killed. all the hot dogs from back east Mark Martin would come out there

would come out there and what tracks you racing? Whip up on us. Carson City, Bakersfield. I really didn't know that you ran you were from California. Yeah.

I didn't even know that. Yep. I moved back here in 1983 and went to work for Richard Petty. You know, Terry Ellage, obviously. Wait, so you go to work for Richard Petty doing what? Working in the engine shop. What was your job?

I was a, they called me Galdor, you know, I was, I'd grind blocks and that's back before all the C&C stuff had really got going. So we would hand grind all the stuff and I'd customize pistons and rods and deburr stuff and inspect stuff and how long did you work? How long did you work there? A year and then the team broke up and then you'll. No, you'll love this. I didn't. No, he went to curb. Yes, yes.

Okay. I went to Cliff Stewart and became a rear tire chain. for Rusty Wallace his rookie year. What? Yeah. You were on a pit crew? Yeah. We won the championship.

That was that, 89 or something? What year was that? It would have been, no, it had been 84. 84. Early. You win the pit crew championship. Driving the Alley Guard number two? No, the Gatorade.

Oh, okay. Then he went out of the year. Dang. It was still the 88 car. Unreal. So you were on a pit crew before. You changed tires the entire year? The second half the year.

Yeah. Were you still working on an engine? engines at that point? No. No. Nope. I was, uh, we only had six guys in the whole shop. You were doing a lot of things. Body man one day, you know, and Rusty would bend the front clip every week, like another guy used to. Yeah. And, and so we, you know, we'd go out there and we'd pour to power stuff back, and Darrell Bryant was the crew chief, and Darrell didn't believe in engine overbars. Well, hell, I was, our open comp cars was way lighter, and you had to have an engine overbar in that thing, the front end, go all the hell. And, uh, so the thing was, the, the thing was, old. And, the thing was

old rear steer hutches and pagan cars and it wasn't much of those cars wasn't very good but uh it was it was a lot of fun and and uh you know they used to put rusty and i would room together until saturday night and then patty would come in and i would have to room with somebody else because we was you know was on a budget it's only six of us we took turns cleaning the toilet yeah packing wheel bearings one day and bondo in the next so you knew you know rusty better and a lot of us no rusty. Oh yeah, we used to have a lot of fun back then. Man, like y'all, I never, like, so I've been around the sport. Like, I never heard about any of this. They roomed together. Yeah. So are you driving race cars at this time? No, I was, I was not. And I, that's when I got my first

late model ride back here. I was riding down the road. I was working for, for, um, Stewart riding down, I had a little motorcycle, and I was riding down the road, and I saw this old third-design how car along in front of this other body shop. So I just stopped in there, and I said, hey, it looks like a little third-designed how car. He goes, yeah. I said, what are you going to do with it? He goes, oh, we're putting a body on it. We're going to, you know, this Reggie Newman that owned the shop. He says, he's going to drive it at Caraway. And I went, wow, I said, when you get ready to set that car up, I used to have one, I can probably help you a little bit. So I went and helped him. We went to the racetrack, and Reggie's running around there,

and he's trying to tell me what's going on with the car. He said, why don't you just make a couple laps in this car for me? And I went, okay, so my first lap on the track, I was like two and a half, almost three seconds faster than Reggie. And I came in and he goes, this is stupid. You should be driving this car. And that's how it started. And I started driving that car.

It was a number two. I don't know if you remember Eddie Brown, but he, then I went to work with Eddie, but we had that thing, the roof all chopped up. It was exotic. It was a pretty cool car. We won a lot with it. Yeah. And that was a true late model, like we know late model stock?

NASCAR late model stock, yeah. Dang. That was my first late model stock car. Yeah. Did you run the Martinsdale 300 or anything? Not with that car. Yeah. But you did a few times?

Mm-hmm. I won it in my own car and I won it in Jeanne's car. Oh, my God. That's such an important race for us around here. It is a hard race to make. Yes. I had a hard time with it myself as a driver, but... But we got a grandfather clock over there now.

But now we got a clock in here from winning it last year. Yeah. So help me understand, I guess, like you're, you know, you've worked for petty at the engine shop for a year, and now you're changing tires and working on Cliff Champions car with Rusty. You're sort of, you got some roots. You got some, you got like a purpose, some roots, you got a job. And, but you seem like,

Willing to, you know, and you're going to drive this race car, you're driving this race car. I guess driving, like a lot of people I know at that time, driving's like, man, this is what I want to do. I want to drive. Hell with this tire change. Yeah, I don't want to be a tire change. And I don't want a room with Rusty. Right. Well, that was a lot of fun.

Okay, maybe. I'll drive, but keep me rooming with Rusty, maybe. No. How that ended is I went to Darrell and, um, I was. I decided to quit toward the end of the year. And your plan was... Is to drive. You're going to make about the same amount of money?

Well, no, I made a lot less money when I quit until I got going. And he said, man, you know, you can't leave us. We want you to stay here. And he said, you want more money? What's it going to take to keep you here? And I said, Rusty's job. And he said, well, I can't do that. And I said, well, then I can't stay.

Yeah. And I left and started, and that's when I started driving that two car for Reggie. And fast forwarding, I did my own car. What was that like? So doing your own car, do you have the body shop at this point? Yes, and that's how I did it. So when did you start that? 85.

You started the body shop. Toward the end of 84. So right at the end of the Cliff Champion deal, you start your own business. Right. Where is this located? Level cross, almost about. a mile from petty enterprises. Okay.

And what are you doing? Just fixing? Well, at the time, the body shop was in Greensboro. And we moved the, I built a shop at home, a small shop. I think it was like 40 by 50. And then I had another shop. Yep, in my backyard. And so I built a paint booth and stuff in there.

And so we had the body shop. So the wife at the time, she kind of oversaw that. And I'd go in there and mix paint. And I'd do, you know, I was the only guy in town that could. match the pearl paints and stuff and so had my own mixing system. What are you typically painting? Street cars. Street cars.

And then I started getting some jobs redoing like I'd redid Kyle Petty's roles that he had back then. I did one of the Superbirds for Richard. Started doing some show car stuff. And I really loved doing race cars because you didn't have to be nearest picky with them and they came out good. And so that's kind of. where we were at and she would run stuff and I'd work on the race car in part of the shop

and um paid myself like $300 a week I think and I made $300 a week for a hundred years it seemed like um but but we we ran 22 races with our own car that year what kind of car did you buy I uh it was a redding chassis back then I don't know if that's what jean's car was was redding chassis Anyway, we ran 22 races. I won 11 of them and had 19 top five finishes with my own car. At Carraway? All over. Went to Martinsville, Carraway, Tri-County, went to Orange County down there by just wherever.

Wherever the big race was, we would go because I tried to make purse money, which, you know, you win a race and you get like, I don't know, $8, $900 or $1,000. That was big money. Yeah, for sure. So you ran your own car and then you go drive for? Well, then we built a cup car in 86. So who's we? Myself and some buddies. And Reggie Newman, the guy I drove the late model car for.

Where did you build this car? In my garage. Did you buy an old chassis? It's an old Cecil Gordon car. Holy cow. Yeah. And I bought a dino engine from Petty Enterprises. I think Richard sold it to me for, I don't know, next to nothing.

And I built most of that car out of Petty Enterprise's junk pile. They had this big storage thing in the back, and, you know, all your axles and rear-end housings had been wrecked and stuff. We took that stuff and straightened it out and went to Martinsville and made the race. Yeah. We sent like four or five tractor trailers out of there, and we was up there with a three-quarter-ton truck and an open trailer. And I'm like, wow, this is it, you know, this is pretty cool. You qualified, like, pretty good.

we qualified okay i think and uh was running well yeah and Kyle petty spun me out he was jealous I think or he just didn't like me I'm not sure but anyway he he spun me out and then I got going again and and burnt the rear gear out of it it was the used gear that we bought over there and it Martinsville's hard on stuff so at the yeah okay so what's what's the thought process right at the end of that deal like you you know you you run the race and then you get out and you're like all right um did you are you upside down financially oh yes yes i'm about broke so we decided we're going to try to go to rockingham but we were 62 horsepower off of richard's the motor in the 43 car that day that's a little tough to overcome and uh that's hard to overcome and so we're

going to go to rockingham next and i said i got to get this engine fixed and i i'm not capable of making it make enough horsepower. So I sent the engine to Terry Elledge and Terry fixed it. Still didn't have much horsepower, but it had a lot more than it did the first time. And it broke me. We went to Rock and Ham the first time and missed the race by a thousandth of a second to Richard Petty. And then we went back and made the next race there, but it broke me. I mean, I was, I think it cost, at that time, it was like, oh man, it was 10 or 11,000. thousand dollars refreshing the motor up which is nothing but back then it was a cylinder heads back then it was everything to me do you remember this car no because i'm telling you he's rain man

when it comes to cars on the on the track i mean he knows them all and i'm i'm shocked that this one might have slipped by you let me refresh you for a short period of time there was a tv network called s et n uh yeah jim wigglesworth uh dick ozanne so we called that car it was a number nine It was called Zanworth Racing. I was the first rookie to have a camera in the car his first race. And that was that car. Uh-huh. Wow.

I remember that. I don't remember the car, but was it a white 19? Yep. Yeah. White 19. What was this on the quarter panel? Zanworth. Zanworth.

Because those guys owned the network. Gotcha. That was, you know. And Dick Bergman. Yes. Work for him. Oh, yeah. We're still friends.

Yeah. So I, what, whatever becoming that car? They had that, what was the name of that thing they did at Charlotte? They had those cars that was like Old Cup cars and stuff. They finally quit doing it because they killed a couple people. The sportsman? The sportsman deal. Okay.

You sold it off. I sold it to a guy named Dana Dorman. And the deal was I had to come crew chief at Charlotte. And Dana was the one that told. me back when we were at caraway I got a backup for just a minute and he you know I'd show up and flip-flops had long hair and cut off shorts and you know jeans and and he said Skinner you're a good race car driver he said brush your damn teeth get your hair cut and start dressing a little bit better if you're going to make it in this business because you can

make it if you'll kind of clean up your act a little bit so I went crew chief for him and I creed chief that car a couple of times at Charlotte. And then that deal kind of dissolved. Sure. A lot of great race cars went through them sportsmen races. Yes. And got wadded up. But so I guess you're still running late-mile stocks around us throughout all this, right?

You're still trying to dig. And what made Gene Petty's cars so good? Well, I don't want to say I did, but David did when David was there. David's an artist. He was. He was the best cheater in the business. Talk about some ingenuity. Yes, he had a lot of ingenuity.

When David left, Gene says, I'm taking the grandkids. We're going to Disney. We're going to run Carraway. It's going to be our first race when, no, I ran his car. The first time I ran his car, won the race at Carriway, but I struggled. And that was that tricked out thing. that David had done and David had decided to make a truck armed car out of it they were way more forgiving and and I'm like BS on that you know give me all that rear steer I was you know the the I wanted rear

steer in the car back then and so when they went I cut jean's car all to hell and it's wonder he didn't fire me when he came back yeah he came back and he was mad I said yeah I cut 62 pounds out of this thing while you were gone and we're going to hang it hang lead back where we want it and then we started really whipping up on them. We won a lot with that car. We ran 32 races that year, and I won 16 of them with 28 top fives. It was a pretty good year for a late model car. Well, I remember when David drove that car, we'd go to races,

and he would cover the hubs and the whole. Oh, yeah. You couldn't see anything. Like when the car is jacked up sitting in the pits, we're all jack our cars up walk off to eat chicken you know and uh you know just here whatever look at it take what you want you come back

you can come back guys be underneath your car not David's car but not David David had like special made covers to cover the area 51 yes Dale I took the fuel cell out of that car and the whole fuel cell rack was cottage cheese I mean that thing would have got hit just a little bit it would have destroyed it

and there was a 60-pastrored it yeah and there was a 60-pand chunk of lead right beside it. I said, this guy's a damn rocket scientist. What the hell is he doing here? I said, I don't want to die in this car, so I welded all that stuff back up. And still had a 50 pound piece there. Yeah. Yeah, he was pretty special. He ends up becoming crew chief and pretty successful, which I never saw that coming from David. I always liked David. I did too. he would always talk to me even though he stomped our butts and he was pretty private and secretive about what he was doing on his race car he didn't mind talking to you and having a conversation with you

and I always kind of appreciated that about him a lot of people wouldn't talk to me but we um so what happens between you know you're racing late model cars you're dominating your what is that what is racing late models and winning all those races what got you noticed by Richard? It is. It's another crazy story, but remember Mike Dillon had the performance parts deal, and that was probably the biggest sponsor in late models. Beautiful car.

It was, yeah. And we were at New River Valley, Pulaski. And I'm riding along there in Gene's car, and we're running like, I don't know, second or third or four, something like that. And there's a big crash, and we checked up. and some guy cleaned over the left rear, his right front tire came inside the window, ripped the window, now it hit me in the head, and a big tire mark on the helmet, and went across the hood, ripped their cleaner off the hood, the whole front of the car, and they red flagged the race.

Well, I'm sitting there in second or third place, and Gene goes, oh, my gosh, that was the craziest thing ever seen. Get in here. And I said, no, I need this purse money right here. I said, there's only like five laps to go. I got to limp this thing along. He goes, are you okay? I'm saying, well, my head hurts a little bit, but I'm going to be all right. And Mike Dillon tells the story that I won the race, but I actually finished second.

But he goes back and tells Richard, this is the guy you want in your truck because he's crazy. He drives his heart out and he'll whip your butt in the pits if you give him any crap. So we need this guy. And Terry, and Terry, and Terry. Elled was over there going, yeah, you need to hire Mike. He's the guy. Well, in the meantime, I told Gene, listen, I want to go bush racing. And he goes, well, I'll pay for it if you want to build a car. You build it. I remember this. And so I built a car. We got a Loughlin chassis, I guess. And Barry Owens helped me. We hung a body on it. And I built all the front end stuff on it. I built

I mean, I did my own center link. The front end of that car was pretty trick. And we went to Charlotte and ended up, like my fifth lap on the racetrack, six lap on the racetrack, engine blows. We didn't have a spare engine. So we got an engine that your dad had ran and Terry Labani had ran. They both hated it. What was that guy?

The engine builders, famous engine builders. Anyway, there was one of them V6s. Was it? Fisher? No. No. Tant? No, is that short guy?

He was big time popular. He built a lot of those engines. I remember Fisher and Jack Tant and... I don't know. I'll think of it. But anyway, we buy this engine out of the back of a truck, and we got no more practice. And my next lap on the racetrack was qualifying.

We sat on the pole. Wow. I remember that. I wasn't smart enough to lend off. Harry Gant was second. He goes, did you lend off down there in three? I said, nope. Did you?

Why did you? He said, that's why you're on the pole. Wow. I lent off. So this was in 1994 maybe. Is that right? Yeah, it would have been right? I guess it would have been 94.

And you remember this car. Yeah. And is it? Well, because he sat on the pole, right? Mike Skinner, this guy is. The headline. the paper was Mike who? Yeah.

You know me and sort of Cinderella stories under dogs and all that. So anytime anybody that you never heard of done something, I will latch on to it. So I remember that and that's the first time I'd ever heard Gene Petty's name. I was like, Gene Petty, there's more petty? They're everywhere. Yeah. These guys. How come he's not with the other Petty's?

Right, right. Yeah, a lot of questions. Gene was the Firestone Tire guy for the Cup series when Firestone. was in the Cup series. Yeah. Years ago. Oh, yeah. Well, so I imagine that's your big break then,

going sitting on the Poll at Charlotte in a Bush car, right? It's a Bush series. I'm curious, though, because you're talking about, you know, this is the guy you want in your truck. Well, the trucks weren't actually a series yet, right? And I knew nothing about either one of them talking to Richard. I didn't even know there was a truck series.

Right. And I even going back to one of your first stories about, you know, the late model rates, like, like I would imagine the conversation, even before the truck series started, which I think was 95, something like that. This is the beginning in 94 or whenever the first race in 94. And I had won, you probably remember this race, the Road to Charlotte deal. And I'd ran. So the Road to Charlotte was a like.

One of Barry's cars and that. So I'd ran one other time, Owens, Owens. And so anyway. So the. Road to Charlotte was at Carraway. Yeah, there were a couple races throughout the year in late models. They were like big races, and if you won them, it was like an invitation to qualify. They gave, yeah, it was an invitation to try to qualify for the race.

For the race at Charlotte, the sports, the Bush race. Yeah, right? Yeah, the Bush. It basically be like if Josh Barry won the Martinsville race, he got an invitation to come qualify. And I don't know why you needed an invitation, why you could just show up with a car, but what was the difference? Well, they, I think they gave you a tire money or something. Yeah, it was a couple thousand bucks or something. There was a little deal.

Yeah. But anyway, I still know nothing about the truck series. I know nothing about them guys talking to Richard about me. I'm working in the shop at A1 San Rock at Gene Petty's place, and the phone rings, and they say, the secretary says that Richard Childress is on the phone, wants to talk to you. So, what's he want me for? and he goes, you know, I'd like to talk to you about possibly driving our truck next year. And I swear to God that you can't make this up.

I knew nothing about the truck series. So I said, well, I appreciate that. I said, if Dale calls in sick, I'll come drive that three car, but I don't want to drive your transport. I want to drive the truck. And I kind of blew him off and hung up. Well, then we go to Indy with a, we built another. car, a short track car,

Bush car, went to Indy, was running real well, racing Dennis Setzer, I think, at the time, and Gene's the spotter runs me right into a wreck. So, on the way home, my wife said,

you're such a dumbass. They're building a truck series. Bill France and three or four other guys out there, they're going to do a NASCAR truck series. That's what Richard wants you to drive in. So when I got back, I called him and said, you've got to find anybody for that job yet? And he goes, well, there's a lot of people wants that job. He said, we really kind of had our eyesight on you. And I talked

to him and let me come over and talk to it. Yeah. That's what I was wondering, is it before the truck series started, how much hype or conversation was there leading up to it? Because this is a new opportunity for people that are trying to make their way up to cup, right? Well, I'm trying to get going in the Bush series, trying to work out of late. models. I'm still racing the late model for Gene. And he's now funding to let me build a bush car. We bought one of Harry Gantz. Was it Jackson's old cars? And that was a short track car. And that's the car we took to Indies. So we had a speedway car and a short track car. We ran Myrtle Beach in it, two or three other places we went and ran. And so I'm trying to get going. I'm so tunnel vision

on work. Right. I don't have time to know what's going on. Yeah, right. And, And so that makes sense that why, you know, this truck series, if you're not part of any conversation, you're not hearing these things, that would have made no sense probably the first time Richard calls you. No, I was, I feel so stupid over that, but it worked out. It did work out. Wow. Yes, it did. Before the truck series got going, there was a winter heat deal. And there was a handful of trucks out there.

First off, you're going back west, right? Because all the races were on the West Coast for the most part. Yep. What was your feeling about that? I thought it was really the biggest opportunity in my whole career. Geographically, you're like, all right, if I got to go west to end up. I didn't care if we was going to China, driving an RCR car with Goodrich on the side was a pretty cool deal. And we went out there and, you know, I'd never drank an old duels in my life.

So the night before the race, I'm in bed by 9 o'clock. I drank an O'Dooles, which is a non-alcoholic. beer and I never slept all night went the next day we set on the pole by half a second had him killed that darn race started and I'm like we're just going to destroy them on lap 20 spotter comes on the radio and goes that's the leader behind you you you need to go and I'm like I'd burnt the tires plumb off that thing and it wouldn't go thank god that the caution comes out well we come back and get a halfway decent finish top five and uh so i think because i think hornaday i think it was hornaday but one anyway they just checked out and so we went back to to welcome richard calls me in there and he says

how did you always prep for races and i said richard you don't want to know that he said yeah i do and i said man, we'd go out and chase women and dang drink and smoke weed. And we're a bunch of renegades. He goes, well, that's who we hired. That's the guy I want. He said, I don't want you smoking weed no more. But go have you a couple beers and try to stay awake till 10 or 11 o'clock at night. So you don't lay there and worry about shocks and springs all night.

So he goes, okay, the next race was coming up, the next winter heat race. And he goes, I'm coming out there with you. So he takes me out. We go have a big steak dinner. We drank half the night, and I get in wee hours in the morning. I went there the next day, and I was hurt. I was hurt bad. I got in that truck.

We qualified third. I was devastated. But when the race started, we was gone, and we whipped the crap out of them. So we get back to welcome. He goes, am I going to have to do this every time? He said, you're going to have to figure out a happy medium of where this was and that was. So that's funny. I believe that. I believe in that because I feel like that always raised better on Sunday if I threw a drunk at some point in the week. He did think that. Well, you had to focus. And it would make you get back in focus. And if I was too pure, I never slept. I'd lay there, you know, 50 pounds out of left front shock. You know, I need a piece of rubber in the right. All night long, I would just sit there and roll in my mind.

I'd have to have me a couple of cocktails so I could sleep for a while. I had to raise hail just to get that out of my system. If I didn't, I'd go to the racetrack and I would be just moody. Yeah. And I wouldn't be in a great mood because I hadn't got, you know, I hadn't got that out of my system. Out of your system that week. I had to do it. And so I believe in that.

Y'all find balance in all the weird ways. It's sort of just in your, if you're different today. Yeah, it is. I'd say it is. I imagine it is different today. I still think hell raising would probably succeed. Yeah, me too. It's in your nature.

A timeless tradition. If you're a sort of daredevil race car driver, put your life in someone else's hands when you go out there kind of thing, you've got to have a party streak in you. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure some drivers are, if you knew, Jimmy Johnson, raises hell. Yes.

People just don't, he just doesn't promote it. We have drank a lot of wine together over the years. Yeah. So, now there's some of them that probably don't raise anything. I'm envious of you guys haven't seen that side of Jimmy. Carl Edwards probably didn't raise too much help. But you don't know. You just don't know.

He might conceal it. I feel pretty confident that didn't happen. Jimmy was a complete different guy when that camera wasn't around. That's right. He'll say that. It's just so hard for people, which most of us have never seen. He won't show it. He's a pro.

Good. He is a pro. Right. I can't help but think. Is there anyone on the planet that would have been more fit for you to have as a first owner in this level than Richard Childers, though? I mean, because for him to be able to see that and say, like, you're clipping your wings. Maybe Dale, but he was way too young back then. That's true.

I think that we would have made a good thing. Yeah, I would have. Yeah, I would have. So you're often running now in the truck series, right? That first year, I don't remember you losing a whole lot. We won eight out of 21 or 22 races that they had, and we were on the pole, I think, 16 times or something like that. 16 polls in 22 races. And I'll never forget, we go to Bakersfield, and I had a lot of laps at Bakersfield because we used to go run the open comp race down there.

And we're out there in practice, and I'm just driving my ass off. And I ran into somebody and bang the nose up on it. And Will Lynn, he right in front of the whole world, starts chewing my butt out. And I got so mad. Oh, my gosh. I went and I called my wife and said, I'm going to quit. She goes, go ahead. You're a good race car driver.

And you're winning every week. Somebody will hire you. So when I got back, we went into Richard's office and Will came in there. And I said, let me tell you something. If you ever talked to me like that again in front of people, first of all, I'm going to whip your ass. And I don't need this job that bad to do that. And Richard's going, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you guys, you know.

So he made us set and hold hands, basically. And Will Lynn and I have been the best of friends every since. But I think we ended up winning that day, too. And I said, you know, I'm going to knock the nose off once in a while. If you want me to ride around out there, I'm going to run about fifth or six. I said, I got to run hard to figure out how to set this thing up so we can run hard when we have to. And the truth of the matter of, we were both right. I was running too hard.

And I probably, my whole career I ran too hard, I should have backed it down just a little bit. Today, I think you have to drive those cars like that. But back then you couldn't. The tires wouldn't take it. So, you know, you dominate in the truck series, very successful. Help me understand how the conversation starts about you getting in a cup car. When you first go to drive for Richard, did they ever mention Cup? Did they ever mention like, obviously, okay, so they're starting the truck series.

You're our driver. We just need to get this series off the ground. You're going to drive this truck. We think you're the right guy. When was the first like, hey, man, we'd like get you in a cup car, run a race. When was that first mentioned? They just started teams. I think Rick and Jack Roush.

Multiple car teams. Yeah, multiple. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And your dad didn't want. want no teammate. Never.

He wanted no teammate. And it's funny how those guys were like that. Yeah. Because when I got in a cup racing, you wanted a teammate or you wanted to. You almost have to have. You were going to have a teammate and you hoped that you had one you liked. Yeah. Now, even at this point, 20 years later, you need a teammate.

You have to have a teammate. So Darrell Waltrop, Dad, and those guys in the 80s and into the 90s, uh-uh. I don't need no damn teammate. Well, your dad probably didn't back then, but started getting his buttwhip by teams that had teammates. That rainbow car started coming around there, now you're in trouble. Yep. But anyway, Brett Bodine had the Lowe's deal. Yes.

I think up at juniors, or he had his own deal or something. And this is back when there was still loyalty in our sport. they came to T. Wayne Robinson came to Richard says I got the sponsor deal for you and Richard goes I'm not going to take Brett's sponsor we don't do that we're not going to do that

and he said you don't understand they want this Mike Skinner in this car and they're leaving Brett whether you take this deal or not so Richard calls me in and goes you ain't getting any younger he said we need to go ahead and do this i had one more year in the truck how old were you 36 37 something like that i was getting pretty old and and um so i said okay and you know i made a lot

more money which was cool but i'll never forget the kiss of death it's like birdie in the first hole on the golf course you know we go to detona settle in the pole yes that's right i remember that the next terry la bonnie had won the championship a year before who's your crew chief Kevin Hamlin and the next thing I know halfway through the race I'm driving harder than I've ever drove my whole life

and racing Terry Labani for 25th and I went man this stuff is hard you know I could whenever the cup guys had come to the trucks I just beat up on them all you know I figured this is just going to be the same deal same equipment we're good

it wasn't like that but so does that mean that Richard's stuff was that far behind No, I just don't think I just don't think I was good enough yet. Okay. You know, and Dale Sr. was running well. He wasn't winning, but he'd win everything except for the 500 back then. Right.

He'd win the dual race every year. He'd win the shootout. He was winning everything, but couldn't get the 500. Okay, we've got to back up, though. All right, so the whole reason that RCR went to multiple teams is because of a sponsor availability. Is that accurate? like Richard had not been entertaining that thought because you had said that teams were starting to layer up

with some teammates and this, that. I'm sure Richard was thinking that because they were starting to get beat up by some of the two-car teams. Like Hendrick. Yeah. Yeah. And so the sponsor becomes available. That was the time to pounds.

Okay. So it's sort of legendary that Dale didn't want a teammate. So how did that, how were you received? What were the dynamics between the teammates then on that first right when it became obvious that you were going to do before you even get to Daytona this started in the truck because first of all here comes a guy another redneck with a mustache that's right you did have a pretty good mustache and he's and he's driving the three with good wrench on the side of it think of what dale was thinking i can imagine punk over here get him

out of here you know and and so i don't i don't think there was great blood coming from him to begin with because somebody else was driving that. And Richard told me, and a lot of fans hated me. And Richard said, man, you're just going to have to create your own identity. If you run up front long enough, you'll get fans. Don't worry about it. And I was shocked. I mean, I was shocked that the money that we made the first year,

I think my cut in T-shirts and trinkets was like a half a million dollars was my cut. Or $550,000. I'm like, whoa, I've never seen that much money in my life. never made more than $30,000, so it was a big deal. But going speeding back up to the cup thing was senior. He just never wanted a team, and he refused to work with me. On the track. Yeah, I got lucky if I'd get behind him, but until there was just a tiny little gap

because they'd see him come and they'd get the hell out of the way, and then they'd slam the door on me. How were y'all off the track? We were civil. So it was cordial. It wasn't like, you know, it didn't become just elementary or anything. It was fine. We only gotten one wrestling match kind of thing.

Let's hear it. And we were in New Orleans doing a general motor, a GM deal. And all the muckety mucks are there. And we're walking outside this fancy hotel to get in the limo to go to this event. and of course Dale I'm riding shotgun I said no you ain't oh yeah I am and the next thing you know we're rolling each other

down the side of this car beating the crap out of the side of this car and Richard's going oh my god these two idiots y'all are literally wrestling each other for a right shotgun we're freaking going for it and I rode shotgun by the way you won the wrestling match

how'd that go over I bet he didn't say word he was pissed He was pissed. Yeah, he was pissed. But, you know, we laughed it off, and Richard says, you guys really look like a couple of idiots, you know, what's wrong with you guys? And the only other time that I was ready to be physical with your dad was, if you remember right, I pushed him by Jeff Gordon back. And then the next thing, you know, he wins the 500. Jeff.

Or, Riddale Sr. Oh, the one, the 98 one. The next year, I'm leading. Handful of laps to go or a lap to go or whatever. Here he goes. He pushes Gordon by me. I'm like, I was the maddest I've ever been at him. And Richard had to set us down.

When we got to Vegas, I guess he set us down. And you guys got to figure this out. This is stupid. And, you know, Dale wasn't ready to figure anything out. And I was just lividly pissed. But fast forward a little bit, we worked it out. Unfortunately, we never really got it worked. He helped me a lot at Daytona, like took me in a rent-a-car,

and he showed me to their seams. And, you know, everybody's going to run right here. You know, if you'll run up here about, you know, half a car length, you'll still have a right front on your car with 10, 15 laps to go before the end of fuel run. A lot of these guys are going to be letting off the throttle right there, and you can run away. And it helped me so much. I always ran good at Daytona.

And then we got to Richmond one time, and I was really, really fast for about two laps, and then I was terrible. And he got up on the truck. He goes, you know, I'm letting off right there. You're letting off down here. You're faster for two laps, but then you're just in the way. And so he helped me a lot with that. And then it was like the switch flipped, not going to help me no more.

And so we were in Texas. 31 car top of the board. Three car, 40th. And there's about 15 minutes to go and practice. And Richard comes on the radio and goes, Dale thinks there's something bent or broke in the right front suspension of this car. He says the car's just all bound up. He said, would you jump in the three car and run a couple laps?

And I went, yeah, I mean, we're pretty good. We were ready to park it anyway. And I said, don't put tires on it. I said, I want it just like the last time he ran it. This is starting to get awkward. Yeah. Well, no, it was the best thing that ever happened in our relationship. Okay, all right.

And so I jump in the car, third. I knew it. I just knew that that was where this was going. And when I pulled back there, he and Rusty Wallace is standing there at the window when the window come down. He goes, well, you sure made me look like an . . . . . . . and I said, well, you are. I said, but you got like 10 minutes or five minutes left to probably. practice. Let's talk about why that was like that. And I walked him, how I came to the green flag

and walked him what we did and some line off points. He jumped back in the car with three minutes to go, picked up a half a second. So that put him within two tenths of me. I ran seven tenths of a second faster than he was, which is a long time in the Cup series. And that was the turning point. And I think, and then unfortunately, we lost him a year later, but that next year. And so that was a a turning point where I think he finally went, okay, this teammate stuff can work if you use it right. I'm still going to dump him if I have to, which was okay.

It was big. Can I just, our relationship got a lot better after that. I am, thank you for saying all that. That's a remarkable story. It's something that you've always heard, but you didn't know the details. I am reminded as he's telling that story of your race in, I think it was 2000,

your rookie season at Talladego when you had been leading the race a good bit, and you were in a pickle trying to, I think you guys might have had a red flag or something, but you had time, maybe it was under caution, and you didn't know who to go with. No, I was leading the race. Oh, is that, okay.

Bobby Levine was second and Mike was third. Dad was like 18th. 16th or 17th. That's right. This was that race he came out of nowhere. Yeah, he's back there struggling to figure it out. And somebody pushed Mike onto the outside road, he comes down in front of me.

Now he's leading the race. And I'm like, damn it. But I'm following Mike. You know, just going to hang in here, follow Mike. You're running second. Until he didn't, then he pulls down and I lost the gap. We got like, I don't know, a handful of laps left and it's coming down. And I start seeing Dad and that outside lines coming up there.

And he's getting closer and closer. I'm like, surely they're going to stall out. And that organization, they're going to become unorganized. Surely they're going to, you know, we've got this bottom line tight. And he kept coming, he kept coming. He gets right about, he's going to be on my, you know, kind of, he's going to be up to beside the third place car. And I'm thinking at that point, do I get in front of him?

Boy, he'll be pissed off. Let's do that. Because I could pull in front of him and he can maybe push me, but damn, he's worked all his way. He's worked all. He's my, if it wasn't dad, I definitely never even thought about it. I pulled up, got to push or whatever. But I'm like, hey, he's dad.

He's worked his way. way from back there. I better not can get in front of me. And now he's beside me, so that's, you know, quickly, that is out of the, that's off the table. And I'm like, do I keep pushing Mike? Because now you're going to know. That would be a no.

I knew that Dad's and Mike's relationship wasn't amazing. And I knew that it, and I'm driving Dad's car. And I knew that if I pushed Mike and then he's really going to be mad. And myself, I'm like. all right so I can't so I'm literally like half throttle behind Mike not giving Mike the best push that you know he could get and dad's inching on up there and inching on up there and I'm like I got to do so I'm not I'm not just going to let this happen I'm just going to have to try to pass Mike so dumb idea we come out of the tri-oval you could go below the yellow line and I got I got a decent run

nothing amazing we come out of the travel and I go under the yellow line at the flag stand I'm up to his quarter panel and I was looking at Mike and he's not moving he's like he's like you're under the yellow line I'm I'm on the track your ass is letting off or there's going to be a big wreck when we get down here to one I could hear I could see him having that conversation with me as we're heading into turn one and I go and I come up the track and doors with Bob La Boni who's behind now on my outside and I go back to 14th is where I finished and I mean we're sitting up there trying to win this race settling this between me him and Bobby Bonny and whoever else and it just went the shit and dad goes on and wins and none of

it's this you know obviously great story dad came from behind and just last win that's amazing but nobody knows all of the other things that were really bolts how it happened yeah yeah Okay, so what were you thinking? Because you're like, he didn't push me. I was mad at him. Yeah, that's what I would assume, right? I'm like, what in the hell was he thinking right there? And I never, ever put it together till right now why you did that.

And now I understand. And it's like you were damned if you did and damned if you didn't. If you jump up in front of him, that's not going to be any good. And if you stay with me, that's not going to be any good. So I don't know. Yeah, it was a lot going on. Dale Jr. was just trying to make sure your relationship. It was another one of them sure could have would have races.

I'll say this too, I think. And I was a rookie. You know, rookies are going to do a lot of dumb stuff. But I think if I had, I think if it was 2004, I probably would have pushed you or jumped in front of him. You know what I mean? I'd have had enough confidence to go, my guys are here to win.

I'm here to win. The right play would have been to jump in front of him and hope I didn't get any help. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And hope he would have pushed me and not put me three wide. Yeah.

But if you jump up there and he's got to run, then he's going to jump down and be behind me. Yeah, whatever. You know. You never know. I think you're right, though. I should have pulled in front of him. And I think if I'd have had another half a lap, I would have. But by time I was like, hmm.

Time you made the decision. He's out there. Now he's out there. I can't. What a race. It was a mess. I was so freaking mad that, like when I pulled underneath you, it felt like two to go or three to go. I finished 14th.

I was so pissed off at myself. Yeah. Plus you have pops probably in your ear just making you feel that small, right? I mean, I'm sure. Well, I was a sitting duck. I think I stayed in sixth, if I'm not mistaken. I think Tony Senior was kind of thinking the same thing Skinner was. What the hell were you doing?

Had you all gone through the crew chief change at that point? I mean, didn't you guys swap crew chief? Larry was a crew chief. So Larry was crew chiefing you at that point. Yeah, because they had left, they made the swatheep. switch and was did that mess up dynamics did that help dynamics i think it helped dynamics because kevin was a great crew chief and kevin and i had no problems we we got along really really well and uh dale and larry had had had had a couple spats and dale says i you know i want to

want to do something different and richard so we're just going to swap crew chiefs then and there wasn't like is that okay with you guys no he didn't ask this is what we're going to do we're on do. And I admire Richard for doing that, but it was hard because Larry being a great strategist and the hardest working guy in the sport, I'm telling you, this guy was amazing. He could never get the car to turn for me, like what I wanted. I wanted to drive it a little bit more on the right rear, and he just never could get the car to turn for me. Did Larry not say last week that we were getting, like, asking him about different drivers, what they were like. And he would say, help me if I get this wrong.

Like, Skinner could never just tell you the car is loose. He'd tell you that the right back end was pushing. The back end was pushing. So that was interesting. That was funny. But, I mean, gosh, Larry, I mean, of course, had nothing but awesome things to say about you and all the drivers. But he was also very honest about, you know, the quirkiness of different drivers, which I find, you know, is everyone has their quirks.

What was, what did you demand out of a race car? You know, he would tell like Ernie Irvin. Ervin would try to fix whatever's wrong with the car before he even gets into the pits, trying to just change his driving style. But then you had Davy Allison that had to know every little, you know, thing almost to obsessive, compulsive details. What about you? I was probably, I gave you.

him too much information probably and I'd oh you're a driver that's what y'all do well you know I'd want an adjustment and he'd like throw a hair at it and I'd want a yard you know I want it I want four rounds and I want the track bar up a half inch you know and and he'd want to like move the track bar a quarter of an inch and give me a half a pound of air I'm like BS that ain't going to be enough dude I'm telling you it's a nine or a 10 it's not a three yeah but you're running good I'm like yeah but I'm burning the crap out of the right front trying to do this. And so we could never really get together.

Gil Martin, totally opposite. So you want it freed up, huh? I'd go out the next time in practice and come back with my knuckles' wife and half the seat sucked up in my butt going, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that was a little too much. And so he would find that edge, and then we could get somewhere in between. But Larry, he wanted to sneak up on. it. Yeah.

So in 2001, you had a bad crash at Chicago. Broken, you had a concussion, which I understand, but a broken ankle and a torn ACL. Like, those are. And ribs and vertebrates. Yeah, ribs and vertebraes, I understand. But, I mean, that's tearing your ACL in a crash. I mean, we just don't hear about those types of injuries. And I remember that crash and the one at Texas was, they were.

nasty. Even since you've been out of the car full time, they've learned how to wreck. It's like motocross guys. They know how to wreck. If they don't know they're going to crash, they figured out how to land. And what we

NASCAR guys did not do was right before that thing hits. You've got to turn loose of the wheel and let off the brake and just hold on. And I would try to mash the brake pedal through the floor thinking it's going to slow it down. Well, it's not.

The tires are all locked up. That's all you got. And then when it would hit, you know, your leg just would buckle. And that's how I, that's how they tore all that stuff. It torped that leg was you had it mashed.

Yeah. We had those steel, Schroeder steering wheels and folded it. Oh, yeah. Inside out, both shoulders and both biceps. They're still tore.

They're still tore? Mm-hmm. Wow. I had an operation on one of them, and it lasted about four weeks. and it just, you know. You probably didn't let it rest. No.

Yeah. Wasn't very smart. Do you still feel some of your wrecks? I mean, do you still feel pain? Every day. You do? Yeah. Do you still feel that one from Chicago?

Well, I don't know if it was that one or not. But there was enough of them. There was enough of them that my body's pretty beat up. I felt like that the series of wrecks that you had were unfortunate, like the circumstances, because you weren't able to get well before you'd be, you'd be. being the next one, and they were so severe that they were taking you out of the car and disrupting the continuity of the team. Is that kind of what led to the struggles and then having to switch rides?

Yeah. Yeah. If I had one thing that I could do over, and it's something that they, you know, the protocol now will keep you out of the car until you're better. Yeah. Back then it wasn't like that. How many fingers you see? Three.

Okay, close enough. and I would not get back in the car today like I did back then. I drove hurt way too long. And you're in there and you're claustrophobic. You still got a concussion. You know, your body's all beat to hell. And you think that you can flip that switch and overcome that and become a race car driver? You can't.

Yeah. How many concussions do you think you've had? I don't know, a lot. I had seven pretty bad ones. Wow. Four of them were really bad. And then I boxed a little bit when I was a kid, so I probably had a couple of minor ones then.

Sure. So, I don't know. Too many. After seven concussions, it doesn't take one of those big Chicago-type hits to have a new concussion. I mean, now, you know, especially if you're not, especially if not. And by the way, I mean, like, do you guys,

watch races today and think about how hard those walls were and about how barbaric it was before the soft walls. I never ever thought that, I mean, hitting a wall is never fun, but I never. You don't think about that. Thought about it. Like concrete versus soft, safer barrier, they suck both ways. Safer barriers better than the concrete. Yeah.

Does that ever cross your mind, though, when you say, I mean, because I, like, I rewatched that Chicago wreck, and my God, man, I mean, that thing was a... And we were hauling ass, too. That's just, I mean, tire blows. Tony takes the lead, I think, and I'm in the hospital. About an hour and a half later, the race ain't over yet. And my phone rings. Angie picks my phone up.

It's Tony. Is Mike okay? She goes, why are you? are you calling? He goes, well, I'm in the hospital. My right front blew about 10 minutes after yours. And he was in the hospital a couple of rooms from me. That's hilarious. Yeah, unbelievable. Tells you a lot about Tony. Did, uh, it called check on me. Yeah. Like they're all beat up. Tony does that. Tony does that that nobody ever knows about, but Tony's one of the ones that will absolutely do that. Did you race hurt most of the, I mean,

You had a rejuvenation in the truck series. I mean, like you started coming back with Toyota. Well, I got better. You got better. So you weren't racing hurt then. No. Okay. So, man, I mean, did that, did that, did you feel alive again?

I mean, winning all those races with Toyota? I'll tell you something. I got back in shape before I got in that four car. And I'll tell you, those were some of the nicest race cars I ever drove, but they were the worst engines on the planet. Yeah. Yeah. And we blew up every week. twice a week.

But those cars were nice, but I got back in really, really good shape. And then I never really raced hurt, hurt after that. Yeah. What lands you in the truck series? Was that opportunity to go back there better than where you were? Like this is... Well, I left Morgan McClure. And unfortunately, Jerry Nadeu had that bad crash.

That's right. And Jay Fry had put in, I'm not. I'm going to mention names, three or four other drivers. They couldn't make races. And he calls me up and he goes, man, I need a qualifier. He goes, we're about to get ourselves out of the points. And I need somebody and get us in the show. I said, I don't even know if our team can get better because we're not racing.

And I said, sure, I'll come and do it. And I'm running the trucks part time then. And so I get in the U.S. Army car. And we start setting on polls, getting top five finishes, and we kind of resurrected. I helped Jay resurrect that team, and he helped resurrect my career. And that probably got people looking at me going,

well, maybe he's not washed up yet. And so that was a big turning point in my career, but I had the option. The Army would only sign one year at a time. And Larry comes to me, and he was part of that truck team that was when Toyota was coming in. and says, hey, Toyota's coming in.

They want to talk to you. And I'm thinking, well, I don't know. I'm making pretty good money. Well, they offered me really good money for a truck ride. And I went, wait a minute, run 10 less races or whatever it was and have Sundays off. Sounds amazing. Make really good money. Oh, and win again?

Hell yeah. And they offered me a three-year deal. And so that was the turning point is knowing that I had three more years in the sport before I had to make decisions. Yeah. And it worked out. I think I milked it for another six or so. Yeah, your second truck career was like a, like a second thing.

Yeah, yeah. So you had a lot of success there. What makes you want to retire? I didn't want to retire. Okay. I was, Angie was working with Dave Moody on Series XM. And we bought our place in the mountain. and me and the dogs were headed up to the mountains.

It was a Friday, I guess, or I guess it was Thursday, Friday. And they come on the radio and say, Dale Jr. has taken himself out of the car because of his concussion. 2012. I remember that wreck, and I went, I don't think he even hit that hard. But if you look at your dad's wreck, it didn't look like he hit that hard either. and I went, what in the hell am I doing?

At that point in time, I'm doing starting park deals. I was making great money at it because I only had to commit suicide for a couple of laps, and then the rest of the weekend I was just messing around. And I called Angie, and I said, I think I'm going to quit. I said, I just heard Dale Jr. took himself out of the car after that. And I think I was a smart ass after that little bitty wreck he had. And I thought of some of my wrecks, and I went, what am I doing? And we went and saw Charlie Branch, which, I don't know if you remember him.

He worked on your dad, he's a neurosurgeon up in Winston Baptist. And he took my brain scan, and he goes, this ain't good. He goes, you need to find an exit strategy. He says, your scan looks like a nine or 10-year-old child with mental problems. and I went, oh, you're just kidding me. And he said, no, I'm not, I'm not kidding. He said, you need to think about this. So I decided to quit.

And when I called her on the phone, I said, after your announcement, and I said, and I'd already had that conversation with the doctor. And I said, I think I'm going to quit. She went, okay, cool. I'll see you. I'll be up there about 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock because she had to work till 7. Then she'd drive to the mountains that night. You run a, wow.

Yeah. This is crazy. But why that? Dale Jr. had... First of all, I've always liked him. I had a lot of respect for him, especially on the big tracks. And I prided myself because I thought I was good on big tracks. And he was better than me.

And I just thought, you know, here's a guy that's got the world by the butt. He don't have to do this. He wants to race as much as anybody else. I know, but he's smart enough to do what I didn't do. And I would tough it out and get back in that car, not even hardly know where I was at. And I was just running, I drove hurt too long. And he inspired me with what he, you know, and I remember Charlie saying, you want to watch your grandkids grow up and be kind of normal or you want to walk around like Muhammad Ali was walking around at that time. Oh, yeah. You know, all messed up. Right. And it just inspired me to call Angie.

so I think I'm going to quit. Yeah. Did you know this? Nope. Did you ever think to Caldell, Jr.? and at least have a conversation? She told me to, but I never did. I didn't want to mess.

So your wife was smart, but you didn't listen to your wife. We all have those stories. You're not alone in that. I'm starting to listen a lot more now. I bet. Wow. Yeah, I mean, I can understand that. The funny thing, maybe this has been the same for you,

is when I stopped driving, I didn't miss it, but then the longer I got away from it, like the further it is in the distance, the, guy, the more I miss it, it. And I start to think for a moment every once in a while, probably once a week, that, man, I could go back and do it. I could go back and I can do it. And then I think about my kids. Yeah. And I think about, you know, well, okay, yeah, I can't. I can't go back and do it. Because if, you know, one more crash or the next crash is one of those bad ones, I got to go through at least, at least, at least, at the

rehab again to get well and putting them through that. And the worst case scenario could be just an unimaginable. I still do a little vintage racing. I noticed, so I wanted to ask you about that. You drove your son's got super late models, and I know you race in that car and had one. The pro-lates. Yes. So what makes you decide to drive one of those races?

Well, first of all, he was... got a small race team, and they leased the cars out and try to develop drivers. And it started out, Dad, will you test for us? Because they knew I was a good chassis man. So my youngest son, Dustin, was crew chief. And he said, I want Dad in the car, you know, because Jamie would just bark orders. And I would work with Dustin. And we got the cars really good.

And we came up with some really cool front-end stuff. And we had the back of the car. steering and that you know every time we'd come up with something they'd outlaw it and so we just stayed on top of it just like the cup series of what you guys do right here if you if you just sit there you'll get fast you got to be aggressive you got to try to figure out to work within the perimeters of the rules but you need to be the guy that's making them want to take stuff where you can't do it anymore and so we did that and our cars were really fast so I don't know it was a red eye race or whatever they said why don't you dad why don't you just race the car for us this race

i'm like okay we win we win the race then the next time why don't you race we win the race hold up hold up so you get in the car um i mean you've tested it drove it practiced it so you know what your speed is i mean that helps you so if you're a driver you know people listening if you're a race car driver even the ones that have had amazing careers jimmy johnson even feels this way If you get out and you haven't done it for a while, you're apprehensive to drop right back into a race. You want to go practice.

You want to go see if you still got the speed, right? See if you can still do it. See if you can still understand a car. So you've done that and you've got this confidence. Like, I know I'm running the lap time. But you get out there in competition with the other cars and going through the race, managing tires, doing all the fun things that you do inside there.

Were you like on Cloud 9? I mean, you had to have been, like, have, like, and to do it and win, right, at your age, to go back and after everything you've been through, all the injuries and the ups and downs, disappointments, highs and lows, to go out there with your son, your own car, and go out there and compete and win, that had to been a highlight for you personally. You don't think about it while you're doing it But after the fact When you're two glasses of wine in And half the teams at your house It's 2 o'clock in the morning You're partying you're going

That might have been so cool That might have been the coolest thing we've done But one of the things that I helped them with And I did a lot of testing for them We had a young kid And I'm going to mention his name Good kid he won six races in the car And he

His mom and they had a meeting, they always had a post-race meeting, and she says, you know, you're charging us too much, you need to give us a better deal, because my son's the only reason that your cars are winning. And Jamie came back and told me that, and I said, schedule a test for Monday morning. And so he gets the track, and we take the driver down there,

and I said, you put a set of tires on. You guys get your car as good as you can get it. I just want to see how, you know, I'm evaluating this stuff. So they go out there in about an hour and a half, same set of tires. I said, do you mind if I take a couple laps in this car? And he goes, oh, that'd be cool. You want to drive it? You know, yeah, yeah, come on, old man, get in here.

So we stretch everything out for my fat ass to get in there. My first lap on the racetrack, I hadn't driven in a while. It was a half a second faster than his best lap. And I came back down pit road, and I pulled the window net down. And I said, you know why I don't do this anymore? And he said, no, I have no idea. That was really fast. I said, because I'm not good enough.

I said, so go home and tell Mommy you got a little work to do before you get a better deal. That was one of the coolest things that I'd done in a race for all. These kids winning races and stuff. And I'm like, okay, let an old man show you how you really get it done. An old man that's, by the way, too old to do it anymore. Yeah. So are you too old to do it anymore? There's people that drive that are your age or older?

No, I'm not. I mean, I think, you know, winning the short track Nationals was a big, big deal for me because I was surely the oldest guy in the field. And we had to come from the back a couple times. Had no breaks and we're at Bristol, you know. I got a lot of laps at Bristol. Probably didn't hurt me any, but driving a complete different animal. And I think that was cool. But I have a lot of fun doing this vintage racing. The cars drive terrible. They got a ton of horsepower. What kind of car are you driving? Like a C2 or C3 Corvette, like the old big block corvettes, but they got a crap tire on them. And they got 800 horsepower.

You got these giant big blocks in them. And it's just a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. Al Anser Jr. comes and races with us. I run him down 32 seconds at Road Atlanta last year and won the race. And I was like, that was really cool. It's as exciting as winning some of the other. the races that we were able to win throughout the career. But doing it at this age, and another old

fart is a guy who had to beat, which he's a great guy. I don't know how well you know. He's a great guy. He's a good guy. So how often do you race? Well, since this pandemic, we haven't raised this year. They're just now getting going again, but the guy I was racing for it hasn't really got car together or whatever. And so probably won't race any this year. Hopefully we'll come back and run three or four races next year. Cool. That, it's, I'm, I want to tell you something real quick. And I, uh, because this is definitely something you wouldn't know and you probably

don't even know this. So Angie was on Kelly's podcast early in the Dirty Mo Media Days. And, and, um, that show was called Fast Lane family. And I remember something stuck with, uh, stuck with me that Angie's told Kelly when they were talking about kind of your life after racing and kind of like this kind of, driver identity crisis maybe is how you'd call it um and i it influenced us what angie said about you even when we were trying to navigate kind of like dale's exit and that this is even kind of before the concussion that really kind of like put that it expedited the exit for sure but like

we knew that you know he probably was going to raise several more years so like what's the what what's the what's very few drivers get to call their shots on how they Excellent. Very few athletes do, frankly. I don't think we wanted to do it that way. Nobody ever does, right? And Angie said something on that podcast that, and it was something like, you know, it's hard not to feel like a bull put out the pasture in retirement.

And when we would have conversations internally and, you know, like, hey, this is that. That always just kind of stuck with me and inspired us. is like, hey, let's have an identity. Let's strive for an identity, a purpose after racing, because I think there's an identity crisis that most people, you know what, you don't even have to make it an athlete thing. Most people don't end, you know, the way they want to. They're replaced by somebody younger.

This could be the accountant. This could be anybody, right? And it's like, what am I going to do with my time? What am I doing with my life? And that was something based off of those comments in that interview, that we wanted to strive to have a purpose and an identity beyond racing. And I think that's advice that anybody needs to basically aspire to as they get up in years. So I could say all that.

I wanted you to know it too. Did you feel like a bull put out to pasture? Absolutely. It's funny. And I've explained it like this. I'm like, you're the quarterback all these years. And now you're the water boy. And it's like, wait a minute.

It was way more fun being the quarterback. I don't want to be the water boy. It was like when I came into junior motorsports and they offered me a job. And I went, man, this is great. I'm going to get to race again. And then the guy handed me a broom. Yeah, well, listen. Same difference.

Whenever they, NASCAR lets us go to seven full-time teams, then you're going to be one of the costs. Okay, I'll either run Bristol or restrict your plate track or road course. Wow, you're one of the only a few retired drivers that would get back on a plate track. Oh, I love plate racing. That is amazing. Nobody says that. We've had a lot of drivers, and they were all glad to be done with plate racing. Damn, favorite.

If I ever have an opening plate race, I'm calling you. Wouldn't that be a story? It's really going to piss your other drivers off. Hey, that's fine. I'm not sure we care. No, that's probably good for him. I beg Jeff Burton to drive, and he won't. I'm like, man, don't you want to have one race with your son out there?

Just say you did it one time. And he's like, nah. No. I'm not good enough. I'm like, you are. You're crazy. You're Jeff Burton. I think he's good.

He is. Hey, man, this has been a great conversation. It meant a lot to me that you came over here. Fans have wanted to hear from you. And they're going to be excited to listen to this podcast. Cool. Think about you all the time, man. It's good to see you.

Good to catch up with you and see what you're up to. Hope you enjoy yourself. We do enjoy ourselves. funny. I golf a lot. I play this crazy game called pickleball. I don't know if anybody you've Googled. Is that kind of like tennis? But it's, but you've got a paddle. Right. It's, it's almost like a wiffle ball. It's crazy. But for older people with banged up body parts, it's cool. And, you know, it's really physical. It helps you mentally and physically. You got to focus and you got to run and you got to, you know, it's cool. But that's a lot of fun. But

Kelly came up, I don't know, a couple months ago, spent a couple days. You got to get up there to the mountains and check it out. I will. We'll catch up. Have a cocktail. I am you would love that. All right, Mike Skinner. Mike Quick.

Mr. Quick. Quick. What is an original? We talk about that on the show from time to time, whether there's drivers, paint schemes, the bodies of some of the cooler race cars that we appreciated over the years. Well, let's talk about another thing that I enjoy, and that's throwback shirts.

Oh, yes, you do. Which we just created, in my mind, one of the best shirts. That's right. In the NASCAR industry, at least for 2020, the number 77 Dirtymo Media throwback. That's right. You were wearing it. You came into the office with Isley yesterday and you had that thing on.

I love that shirt. I do, too. I only have one. I got a new box this morning. Great. I've got more coming for it. I need another couple. Yeah, I got you.

The throwback shirt, you know, kind of made this comeback a couple years ago. I think it, everybody indulged. And then it's sort of faded somewhat. Yes? I don't know. First of all, you say everybody, I felt like you were the one that. sort of ushered that in. That's a compliment.

I take a compliment. And two, I thought Blaney really kind of embraced it. Yes. Between you and Blaney? I think y'all pretty much made the thing cool. No, you weren't the only ones, but between y'all's efforts, I felt like the throwback T-shirt, not just throwback T-shirts, but they had to be originals because you were going on eBay as it was well documented to buy these old dirty T-shirts.

It is a tough. It's tough to find the older, like we're talking 70s. That's really, when I want a throwback t-shirt, I'm really aiming for the 70s. 80s are still good, but 70s are cool, and it's hard to find them in good shape. Right. Without a stain or not being a smaller or medium, I'm only need a larger and extra large. And they're just hard to find because they're used up. Yeah.

And they just don't exist. You know, so some of the originals, I have the top of the mountain of throwback shirts for me is a shirt that Dad had in 1980. And it's white and it has the number two blue and yellow car that he won a championship with and won his rookie of the year with in 79. And it's kind of got this little sun sort of graphic in the background. It's like a blue that fades to yellow. and it says something like 79 Rook of the Year

or 1980 champion, one of the two. And that's it. Nothing else on the shirt. And I love the 70s shirts because they were so plain. Yeah, not plain, but they were so simple. In the 90s, remember, we had graphics all the way out of the sleeves. Yeah. Ridiculous.

Yeah. It got out of control. Out of control. And I love the 70s colors. A lot of the color palette for that time was, it's fun, retro. No, wait a second. That shirt you were talking about, the number two. Yeah.

Is that the same shirt that, remember that lady, Connie Goodman? Yes, same shirt. Came in with those shirts. And I think we might have been done that on the show at one point. But, okay, now I know which one you're talking about. It's a very rare shirt. And I have got some, the only trouble with it is that I got some originals. and they fit weird.

Okay. A lot of, you know, sometimes, I mean, the 70s cuts where are pretty funky to wear now. And that they're smaller than everything? Like the neck will be super small. Oh, got you. Or super big. Okay.

Or the sleeves are really tiny and the shirt, the tube of the shirt's big. It's just the cuts were kind of funky or cheap, maybe, you know. They don't, they don't wear very well. Yeah. sometimes. But in that particular shirt's a case where the shirt's amazing, the history of the shirt, what it means to me, but it does not wear very well.

But I still put it at the top because it's so rare. Such a rare shirt. I've only seen like one or two on eBay. But anyhow, thinking about, I guess the other originals would be for me. Now, this is me and I'm biased. Me and Kerry and Kelly had a shirt. that all three of us were on. And it has our autographs or our signatures on the back from our late model days.

And my first t-shirt, back when I drove the sundrop car, very tasty beverage. Back when I drove the sundrop car in 1994, it was a green car that I raced at Myrtle Beach with. And we had shirts made, and they were gray. And it has a signature on the back. and the sun drop car on the front, not a very pretty shirt, but you never forget the first t-shirt. You never forget, you know, you never forget those.

I've got a couple of those, not in great shape. The funny, I guess, the thing about, my first t-shirt, it's like cardboard. Oh, yeah. You know how soft t-shirts are now, and everybody insists. They're opposite. Yeah.

Yeah, especially if it was in the mid-90s. Man, it was, it was 94. Yeah. I mean, this stuff, it's like starched. Oh, yeah, yeah. Big heavy material, right. Abressive. Right.

Yeah. So. You got any? What's your, you got a shirt, a good old throwback original? It's funny. You say, first of all, not racing shirts because I have never like really got into this hobby that you got into. But it's just, just the other day, I was sort of going through my t-shirt drawer just to clean out stuff because I don't get rid of T-shirts. It's, it's bad.

I really should. And I'm sitting there and I went by one by one. It's either going to go in the get rid of it pile, which I just sent it to Goodwill or whatever, or the keep it pile. And I go through this entire drawer, and I only had one that I decided I was going to go get rid of, and it was one of my newer ones that I just didn't like.

I can't get rid of it. So there's just shirt, there's Alabama shirt. Anything with that Block A, the old logo, not the new stuff, but the old block logo, I won't take money for it. I'm never going to get rid of those. There was also a shirt when I was in college that, you know, the head football coach gave me. This shirt needed to be gone a long time ago, a long time ago. Not only am I not getting rid of it, I wear it proudly.

And it's just like, you know, this is just going to be one of those things. I don't want to get rid of it. So that's, I do need, and I did get into some old eBay, I did start buying some shirts. They weren't racing shirts, though. But I have... What did you buy? They're from my old... Like, when I was in elementary school,

I started buying these vintage shirts from back then. And you're right. They don't fit right. And it wasn't just exclusively to racing shirts. That's a fact. By the way, now this is not themed right, but do you ever...

Do you follow that 70 sports Twitter follow? They've got a super store. The 70 store. And there's some old... USFL. Have you bought anything from there? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Birmingham Stallions. Okay. The first football game ever went to was the Birmingham Stallions in 1983. They were red and kind of gold, red and gold. And you actually have a shirt, and I don't even think you know this. You've got an old Birmingham football shirt, then you've worn it on this show, and it's so old looking that I don't even think you know it's a football shirt.

I don't. Tell me about it. It's in that store. It's in that store, but only it's new. Birmingham used to have a football team in the 70s. They were called the All-American. I wore this shirt. Yeah, you have. I was like, I'd look at it, and I'd try not to look at you weird,

because I know that you'd then- What does it look like? It's got like a funky egg. Color? Oh, shoot, I just feel so. What color is it? I'm going, it's, I think yours is blue. The colors of the team was red and blue.

Okay. All right? And it's faded and you can hardly make out. Very faded. Yes. Yeah. I bought it like gone. on eBay too. I bought that online and it was like a

it's not a real throwback. It's like a reprint. It's a vintage kind of like a... Okay, I'm aware. I'm aware of. Okay, so you got it. So I don't need to bring it up. I think that's an awesome shirt. You can keep searching for it then. All right, I will then. But I'm aware. I don't want to see it. I need Dale. I need you to find me

a shirt that I had when I was a kid. It's a Richard Petty. I think it's 1999 or 1993 and I cannot find it. Oh, man. I have a picture of me in it when I'm like three. my parents went to the race in Michigan and all I wanted was a Richard Petty shirt so they brought me back and I cannot find it I need a image of it I'm kind of terrified to send you a baby picture of me

well I just need the shirt you can crop everything else all right yeah yeah yeah the Birmingham Americans I'll be darned huh yeah yeah the Americans sharp shirt it's interesting name yeah for a team what the mascot was I don't know

This was the Birmingham Stallions is the shirt. Was the mascot just like, they just pull any old, like, pull off anything? You, you up there, and I'm real sick, get out here. American. American. You American? Yeah, you'll work.

You'll do. Is it like the traditional nuclear family, like a house, husband and wife and a couple kids where the mascot? Maybe he's like, Uncle Sam or something. And they just walked around. Here they are. here they are y'all and on the other side there's a bear

in Alabama in Alabama the bear probably was the mascot no I understand the opposing team would be well some animal or something I'm actually good Nuclear family I'm Googling it Americans

I'll figure this out I doubt they even had one this was in 1974 I mean this is right the kind of era that you love Birmingham American anyways have we

I think we were doing here. I think we might have. Oh, yeah, Valvaline. You know what? Valvine's the original motor oil. That's perfect. We got a little lost in that one. That's perfect.

Oh, that's crazy. Is there a napkin or a paper towel back there anywhere? All right, don't worry about it. This table's stained. Oh, yeah, I got so excited about this. You got so excited about T-shirt. fill this drink. He spilled my water.

All right, odd history. Heading into Talladega, we got some great odd history for you. This was pretty good. Throughout his career, Bobby Allison, he set a lot of records. 84 wins. 83 NASCAR Cup title, three-time Daytona 500 winner, but there's a record that he holds that most people probably don't know about. In 1984 at Talladega, the Alabama game member,

set the most obscure world record for the Guinness Book of World Records. the fastest trailer trailer. The trailer is in towing a trailer. All right. Bobby was the driver and it was a wood it was a wooden one axle

sided utility trailer. Just put any, you know, throw a lawnmower up in there. Looking at a picture of. Oh, yeah. It's like you buy it right out of the trailer part. Right. The trailer place.

You go to the trailer getting place and this is what you'd see. It belonged to a friend of Bobby's. and that guy happened on a trailer business where you get the trailers. It was called All-American trailer manufacturing stores in Selma, Alabama. The trailer had to have stock tires on it

in order to set the record. And it was also equipped with a spoiler to add a little down for us. Pretty ridiculous. Allison didn't set the record with his cup car. He used his sons, Arca Pontiac. Maybe Allison had a Pontiac Lamas. Number 23, they added a hitch to the back of the race car and with the wooden trailer in tow,

Bobby topped out at 164.338 miles per hour. That's moving. You know them things wobble around and do all that? What a spell disaster. The speed proved too much for the stock trailer tires, though. Shortly after making the record run, one of the tires on the trailer came apart down the backstretch. Lucky Bobby didn't wreck it. And the race car was unharmed.

After near disaster, they unhitched the trailer and Davey got out there and turned a lap of 196 miles an hour in the same race car. Poor trailer. Hey, you know what? They don't use race cars like that these days. They don't let you pull a trailer behind it per a world record. They might. They have exception to that. I think if Guinness Book walked in the door and said, hey, we want to break that record.

Somebody would do it. Rick Rare racing. Michael Walter would have done that. Spire. No. I don't think, I think those guys would not do it. They can't afford to mess up the car.

The exposure alone. Damn it. Junior Motorsports will do it. I love it. Last call. Pull up a stool, fellas. This is where we pour one. Do some last minute mentions.

And we have some fun closing out. the show. In a bar scene in the late 1800s, a guy named Jerry Thomas was known as a celebrity bartender who literally wrote the book on the art of bartending in the U.S. He was tabbed as the professor of American mixology. Not sure if Junior Motors, late model driver, Josh Barry, has a good moniker, or if anyone would call him a professor, but he's writing his name in the history books. This past weekend, Josh won again. beating out Peyton Sellers at Dominion Speedway in Virginia. The Junior Motorsports Late Model Program is having a very strong year,

and we're going to pour one out. For Josh Barry. I think they got 19 wins this year, Mike. 19 wins, and he's going for the national title, where there's a real shot at it. A couple weeks left in the season. We may, we're coming off a year where we won Martinsville, which I thought things couldn't get any better.

What are we going to do beyond this? Can't top that. Being a national champion. I never thought we'd ever have the chance or the opportunity to call ourselves that. So we just may do it. That would be incredible. Get your remote controls ready. The Dell Jr. Download with Mike Skinner airs at the old normal time.

If you're a longtime viewer of the Dell Jr. download on NBCSN, you know that it's Wednesdays. p.m. This will be September 30th at 5 p.m. I got another one that I need to throw out there. You know who's racing this weekend is Ernie Ervin's kid Jared in that Dirty Mo Media. Dale Jr. Download car. They wanted to be awesome people because they are and they threw our logos on that car after Ernie's appearance here on the show. They're going to run at Citra Speedway. The car looks incredible. I actually put some pictures of it on our website at dirtymomedia.com. It's a number 28. It's just so cool looking, but it's got the dirty moe media and the Dell

Genter download on it. So good luck to Jared Irvin this weekend in that whole team. I know Ernie was super proud of him and what he's doing in the late model. So that'll be this weekend Saturday, October 3rd at Citrus County Speedway. Jared Irvin going for $10,000. It would be an awesome weekend. I was just buying something on eBay. Some weird news. Last week, Law enforcement was called to an Ashburn, Virginia home when the homeowner heard the sound of a window breaking and some rummaging. When deputies from Loudoun, Loudoun County responded to the scene, they found the three-foot-tall culprit barricated in the bathroom of the residence. It had black feathers and scaly legs.

A wild turkey. Animal services were called to the scene where the roofed. turkey was removed from the bathroom and released outside where it fled to a nearby tree. Could have been a rogue turkey, too. Rogue, rog. Go, rog. In Loudoun, it's probably rogu. Well, the home received a little damage.

The turkey, we're glad to report. It was unharmed. I got a picture of this, miss. You do? Oh, yeah, he served up us. Look at the next page. He gave us a picture to bring home the point. that's the most unfortunate part of this story.

The turkey was unharmed. You've put that thing next to some mashed potatoes. Good grief. What are we talking about, y'all? All right. Thank you, Mike Skinner. That was quick. I like the idea of having the ass junior at the top of the show.

I appreciate you guys in this room being flexible, letting us get creative, switching it up a little bit. And what else? Where a race this weekend? Caledaga. Taledaga. Man, that's going to be fun to watch. Yeah.

Everybody, have a great week. Appreciate you tuning in. Hey, guys. Give it over. Hey, there. Hey, everybody. Let's take the... Can you mute him?

I don't know they're going to matter. Hey, everybody. Let's take a... Now I can't do it. It doesn't mess me up. Now I'm waiting for it, and when it doesn't happen, I'm screwed up. Now everybody, let's... Reset.

These are great for the... Reset. Reset. Come on. Reset, come on. You got this. This is your moment. Hey, everybody, let's... I can't joke it.

This bit of bad-assery was made by... Badassery. Media. Dirty Mo!