The Dale Jr. Download - 331 – Bobby Labonte: Begged, Borrowed & Stole

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

Bobby Labonte joins Dale Earnhardt Jr. on this week’s episode to dive deeper into the NASCAR Hall of Famers family history, successful career and current racing endeavors.Much of Labonte’s NASCAR career is well publicized but Dale Jr. is curious about the path that led the Corpus Christi, Texas, native to rise from the shadow of his older brother Terry Labonte to assert himself as a NASCAR champion.Dale Jr. along with co-host Mike Davis are shocked to learn that the Labonte racing heritage isn’t rooted in Texas. Find out where their father was raised, how he started racing and what led to him coming to Texas.Bobby’s story starts in his childhood, growing up with a tough dad. Bobby shares the lessons he learned from watching Terry skip school and face the consequences. As Terry began racing in Texas, Bobby was there to watch until the family got barred from their local track. Find out what led them to having to race elsewhere in Texas.Around the same time, Bobby began helping out his brother Terry’s team in the shop. He worked under “Suitcase” Jake Elder and even earned a nickname. Find out what his role was and why the name was so fitting.This eventually led him to full-time work on a Cup team where he learned a variety of skills by building and working on race cars. As he progressed as a mechanic, he was on his brothers 1984 championship team. Hear how these experiences shaped his later career and the turning point that changed everything.Now as he began racing himself, Dale inquires about the details of his late model career and how he ascended up the ranks to eventually buying a Busch Series car with his dad. Find out how, like most guests, Robert Gee factored into the equation.Once Labonte emerged on the national scene, Dale Jr. remembers taking notice. Bobby opens up about riding his brothers coattails to get to that point, how he dealt with the pressure and then trying to establish his own footprint in the sport.A few years into his Cup career, opportunities with other teams emerged. Hear how he landed the Joe Gibbs Racing ride, the role Dale Jarrett played in it all, the offer he got from Robert Yates, and what Dale Sr. told Joe Gibbs.Bobby recalls the special day at Atlanta Motor Speedway in 1996 when he won the race and Terry won the championship. He talks about how everything came together that day and why something like that may never happen again.Stories from the 1998 Daytona 500 continue to emerge this year on the Download. Hear Bobby’s perspective as the second-place finisher that day and what he thought about his chances leading into the race.Dale Jr. and Bobby recall times racing each other, including an epic battle at Pocono in 2001. Hear their recollections of the race and if they ever had any problems with each other on the track. Plus, find out how Dale Jr. cost Bobby a shot at $1 million dollars at Talladega in 2000.One of the greatest things Dale Jr. said he learned from Bobby was the art of the escape after a race. Hear Bobby’s best ways of getting out of the track and the time Dale Jr. dressed up as a Labonte fan after a race.Fresh off his first start in the SMART Modified Tour, Bobby talks about why he continues to race and how he got into modified racing. Plus, hear his expectations as a driver for Tony Stewart and Ray Evernham’s Superstar Racing Experience this summerBefore Bobby joins the show, Dale talks about the rough day for JR Motorsports at Phoenix Raceway and his reaction to Josh Berry’s double bird. Plus, how a close friend is entering a truck at the Bristol dirt race and a Dirty Mo Media sponsored car is making laps around Bristol this week.In Ask Jr. Presented by Xfinity, Dale dishes on tracks using traction compound and Martinsville removing its grass. Lastly, hear where Dale Jr. will be in the booth to call a race this weekend. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This is a production of DirtyMobil. The Dale Jr. Download. Hey, everybody, it's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. Download. Man, we got a great guest on, but first, Mike Davis, my co-host. How you doing, Mike? Great. How are you? Leah, Schultz, are you guys good? Yeah.

Man, it's going to be a good show. Bobby the Bonnie is the guest today. He's a Hallfamer. He's a NASCAR champion. We've become, I like to think we're friends. We're going to find out. I'm going to ask him what he thinks about our friendship. That can go two different ways.

I can't wait. I'm looking forward to talking to him. Man, there's this sort of part of his life that this doesn't get a lot of publicity or I don't know anything about it. But it's how he got into racing, right? All I know about Bobby is he just popped on the scene into the Xfinity series in the mid-90s. And it was on from there, right? When the Xfinity Series Championship goes on to become an NASCAR.

Car Cup champion, but what happened before that? I mean, there's pictures of him on Terry Labani's crew, like working pit stops. There's some random pictures of him in front of a late model car, and apparently he won a track championship at Carraway Speedway, and I want to learn all about that. What's his journey? I'm very curious. So we're going to get into that. But first, man, let's just get to talking about what's been going on in the sport or everybody's

lives. We had an Xfinity race this weekend. Rough day for junior motor sports. Oh, man. We have great speed, man, but it's like, I don't even know. I don't want to say that, I mean, some of the stuff I can see how what we're doing is kind of avoidable. Now, you know, you can't help when something breaks on the car or whatever. And Justin was going for it at the end.

He did everything he could try to put himself in position to try to win that race and take one away from Cindrick. but it didn't work out. You know, he gets into the fence off term four, right? Gets out of the car, has a great post-race interview. I was really happy with that. Stayed positive and sees, like, the potential in the team. This is Algar I'm talking about. Josh Barry, he's kind of our latest project.

He gets wrecked or wrecks himself, however you want to view it. I mean, he's on the outside of Faroochi through turn three and four, and it seemed to be the thing. Like if you, I've seen Cendrick and a bunch of other people, Cendrick kind of did the same thing to Algar at the end of the race where he takes the PJ1 and says, man, this is how I'm, this is, I got to do this to win the race. Now, you know, they were racing for the win.

Josh and, and Fruci weren't. But Fruci really kind of just took the lane away from Josh. Josh gets in the marbles, hits the fence. And he had a great car. He'd rown up to third place in the race, but he gets out and flips the bird. Two. Two of them. Two birds, whatever, yeah.

You know, the willpower, double bird. I told Josh, I said, man, you've been wrecked before. You know how to act, and this ain't it. Okay. You know, I know a lot of people, you know, are like, I love the passion. Get them. Team Josh, right?

I get that, too. But here's the thing. Like, you want, Josh is trying to become imprinted in people's mind, right? And he ran all, he ran a great race, had a lot of speed, right? Up to third place at one point. Yes, the result was bad. But if he gets out of the car and walks away to regroup for the next race, all people remember is, man, what could have been?

He was so fast. But now all they remember is a double bird. And nothing, nothing at all really about the performance on the track. And I just don't want to, I just don't want him to divert people's attention away from what's really important. And that is that he's fast, that he can do this, and that given more opportunities, which we're trying to get for him, he could have great. success. So, but anyways, what's done is done. Hope they can just go back and regroup. There was, you know, Atlanta's a great track, I think, for Josh, because the surface is

kind of worn out. And a lot of the racetracks that he competes on, and Lake Model Stocks is kind of similar. So maybe he'll find some comfort and similarities in what he's been doing and what he's going to do this weekend that will help him find some speed. But just a great, But Phoenix is a great track for us. We always got speed there. Maybe that's where I should run my race. I try to run where I think we're going to be good. Yeah.

There's a lot of things that factor into where I'm going to run. Yeah. You want it to be perfect. Well, you'd love that. Boy, if there's so much as a bump on that track, he's not going to race there. Well, I don't like bumps. I know you don't. Not the big giant ones.

Right. Well, no, for real, though. I mean, in all seriousness, I'm joking, but the fact of the matter is is that there's reasons why bumps in your history of concussion don't really match well together, so I wouldn't want you on that bumpy track either. But so Phoenix, there may be an option for you. I love Phoenix.

Yeah, Phoenix is a long way to go. That's the other thing, too, man, is maybe not everybody thinks this way, but I used to be so miserable when we would go so far to race and have something like that happened to Josh, right? You go all the way out there, and you can see that good result right there in front of you, And for whatever reason, it doesn't happen. And now you're sitting on the West Coast with a long ride home.

And those trips just, I hated them for so many years. Eventually, I got to appreciate traveling and seeing part of the country. But when you're going out there really just laser-focused on just racing a car and you get a bad result, it makes for a miserable trip. Hey, have you ever hung a double bird at anybody during a race? Oh, man. Or even a single bird? So I've flipped people off, but I haven't gotten out of my car and standing clear damn on the middle of, in the middle of the racetrack and just done it right there in front of God and national television and everyone else.

You know what I mean? I thought I remember a picture of you doing that to somebody, but I can't remember me. I mean, I flipped people off before, but not in such a stand on such a grand stage, right? Maybe, was it Robbie Gordon? Did you flip Robbie Gordon off? On Pitt Road. On Pitt Road. It was one of his crewmen.

That's what it was. That's what it was. Right. They were getting mouthy with you. Yeah, they came over and get a little... Yeah. So that's okay. Pit Road.

I mean, you know, probably the race was over. I had someone in my face. Oh, really? Yeah. So, I mean, I'm like, we're having... That was middle of the conversation. I might have to think about punching that one then. Not just giving the bird, but...

No, I wasn't going to punch this guy. He was huge. Oh, yeah, don't punch him. No. Bird sounds good. Yeah. I was lucky to get away with that. So there was a few other things, too.

So there's a lot of cool things going on with this Bristol dirt race, right? And you're seeing, I saw where Brad Gislauski went and ran a dirt race in some race track in Georgia, right? Really cool stuff like that. You know, I'm jumping online to watch Brad race at this little track to see how he does. And you're hearing also about all these drivers that are going to run in the truck series. at Bristol, you know, whatever, right?

So I guess Martin Tricks, Jr.'s going to drive one of Ka Bush's trucks. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah, so there's cool things like that

happening where these drivers are trying to jam pack in some, like, dirt experience. One guy that really doesn't need it, and I think he could be under the radar for a lot of fantasy team owners in the cup race is Ryan Newman.

Yeah. A guy has a pretty good amount of dirt track experience in his history. But he's teaming up with a very good friend of mine, Brad Means. Oh, that's cool. Jimmy Means son. So I'm a big Jimmy Means fan. Me and Brad grew up together.

Well, Brad's got a truck now. DCC Racing, I guess is the name of this team. But him and Ryan Newman are going to pair up. I think Coca-Cola and aggressive hydraulics is coming on board to help those two form the race team to be able to compete. This will be my friend Brad's first effort

in owning. So his dad's been a long-time car owner, been a fixture in a sport for decades. And Brad's, this will be Brad's first real effort behind owning a car or a truck in any series. So I'm interested to see how that goes if you want to pull for an underdog or a new team. That's right. That truck race is Saturday, March 27th. Yeah. It'll be number 39.

Number 39. That's Ryan's familiar, long-time number from back in the day. Brad's so super pumped about this. You've been meeting Brad at the soccer field. Yeah, our daughter's on the same soccer team. And he just is so excited about this. I mean, and so, yeah, we've got a truck to pull forward. That's good.

Yeah. I got one. Yeah. Look at this, y'all. What in the world? Dirty Mo Media. Speaking of Bristol, dirty moe media is going to be on a dirt car car, one of those IMCA dirt modified.

Y'all see this? How pretty is that? It's all right. They're racing this week. You know how, you know, the NASCAR folks come in next week. This guy's name is Peyton Taylor. Okay. And he's never been to Bristol.

And this is his first week. They actually have a race tonight, like these heat races start tonight, and then Wednesday, and then Friday is the feature. And, yeah, dude, I mean, there's 130 cars trying to make this final race. And he was top 10 practice speeds, getting it done. We'll see how he races. But, yeah, this is the Andrews auto sport car. My buddy Spencer Andrews, Collins Andrews, those guys just wanted to, they built this team,

and Peyton Taylor gets it done. And I don't know, this car. We've got, I want everybody, I want to put it on dirtymomedia. You can social that out, but we've got a dirt car to follow this week at Bristol. We'll hope he does well. Very cool. Yeah. Final app for Bobby Labani.

This young man from Corpus Christi, Texas, and a driver's pulling up to congratulate Bobby LaVadi on his first ever win. Bobby Labani, what did you feel like to win your very first Winston Cup race? It feels great. Here comes Bobby Labney. Checkered flag is down. And the winner is Bobby Labty. The battle up front is a big. intense one Bobby Labani has grappling. Bobby Labani from Corpus Christi Texas wins the

7th, fifth, yard 400. This is one of those races that you dream about. And honor goes in high. This goal leaks the room for the Bami on the bottom. They come toward the line. Who will it be? Bobby Labani is the last car Winston Cup champion for 2000. Junior gets a little bubble up there, gives Bobby Labani a run on him. Junior duck slow. Lebonny's got the outside lane as they had for turn three. Bobby's got the run to the outside. They squeeze. He passes Dale Earnhardt Jr.

with two rocks to go. And Bobby Labonte wins. Out running Jr. there at the end. I tried to block him, but he wouldn't let me do that. Hey! What's happening? What's how you doing? You're moving a little slow.

Are you a little sore? No. No? I don't believe it. Well, I know you clipped a pit wall yesterday, so... I did clip the pit wall. Well, have a seat. Come on, come on, sit down. I want to talk to you all about it.

Okay, cool. Super pumped to have you on the show. I'm glad to be here. Thanks for reaching out. You've been on the list for a long, long time. I wonder if it was ever going to happen. Bull crap. You know, people say that sometimes.

I hope we're not offending anybody. You only do it one at the time. You've been on the list a long time, though. That's a fact. At least I'm on the list. That's great. We have a long list of names, and I put little green check marks or something some sort of identification beside the ones that mean the most of me and you've had a green

checkmark for about a year now and I'm like come on mike let's go you're not just a list member you're a green checkmark list member oh that's cool you're emphasized name on the list but awesome man I have great great to see you it's good to see you yeah it's been a while yeah it has we've sort of cross past a few time on the internet yeah you know I know it's true it's not the same though yeah racing a little bit online um which I want to talk about that a little bit with you at some point. But first off, man, yesterday you ran at Carraway in a modified, and I know this isn't your first modified race, but this is kind of news to a lot of people. So why are you racing in Modifieds? Why not? Right, right? Have you ever run one? I haven't.

Well, if you did, you'd be racing them too. Really? Yeah, they're a lot of fun. Man, I'll tell you. They're awesome. And yeah, so we started off the year yesterday and qualified third, started first, and was running third on the last lap. Got about 100 yards to start finish line and got clipped. But yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, I mean, it's fun, fun, fun. Those cars are great. You get a good feel for it. And I just enjoy it.

I mean, and when you can go back, as you know, to a short track and you can see the fans and kind of work out of the back of your hauler, like with a toolbox and you've got a 30-foot trailer, fifth wheel, it's kind of cool, you know what I mean? So I just love racing. and that's just, you know, I mean, heck, I was home in 20 minutes, too. That one helped. So, yeah, just a lot of fun and just really enjoy racing. And those cars are fun to drive and got, you know, a great car to drive.

Yeah. There's a lot of people that, I don't know, I mean, I find that to be so fascinating when, you know, guys like you or myself or Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, I mean, like speaking to Tony with his new series coming out that I think you're going to be a part of, you know, like Ricky Rudd, he disappeared. Yeah. Right. He got out of her cup car and we never saw him again until I never saw him again until I brought him on the show. Sure. And a lot of people, you know, miss those kind of guys when they move away from racing and disappear like that and go do whatever it is they do.

But other people like yourself pop up somewhere at a race track and it's just really amazing to be able to kind of see their heroes still at it. And doing well, I mean, you set on the pole, well, you qualified third fast as I believe. The invert puts you on the pole. led some laps, ran up front. So it's a competitive car. And you're like all in. You're going to run the whole season in the smart tour and against some of the toughest competition in modified racing.

So it's just interesting to me that you would take such a big bite out of something like that. I guess there's parts of you that I don't quite understand. I've known you a really, really long time. But you're sort of kind of, you and your brother both are really mysterious in ways. So trying to learn a little bit more about you today. Well, I'll try not to let out too much. Well, that's our game plan. It is.

Yeah. Stay mysterious. But onto that day, I'll say is that, you know, I grew up, you know, when you grew up racing in a racing family and you just, it's in your blood and you want to go back and do that. I mean, like yesterday was just total fun until about 100 yards to the end. You know, I mean, it was awesome. So I just love doing that.

And, you know, I think that's just, you know, it's not for everybody. Right. How hard was it? As far as like my heart rate hard. Racing. Competition. Oh, yeah, competition is, it's intense. You know, I mean, it's racing every lap.

So, and that, you know, that is, yeah, that's huge. I mean, you know, I mean, you just love doing it because you, you know, and you want to be competitive in it. But, you know, I do things, other things that are in the sport that aren't driving. You know, we're still involved. You know, so doing that. So it's in my blood. I mean, I can't just drop off and do something else. You look amazing.

like health-wise, you don't seem like, you know, you slow down any. Well, I'll give you a hint. I try to act 25, but I definitely don't feel 25 anymore. But I try to, you know, try to maintain as much you can and, you know, be sharp or be, you know, healthy and fit and as much as you can. And, you know, so when you go do stuff like you did yesterday, I, you know, I woke up at 5 o'clock, just kind of hanging out. You know, I mean, just normal deal. So, you know, I feel good. You know, I feel good about it.

All right. So you, you, we were kind of joking about are you sort of. but do you really, you can run these races and don't feel it the next day? No. Okay. And then the second question, you got clipped. This stage in your life, you've been there, done that. Does that ever get your blood-bolling?

I mean, if you get clipped 100 yards from the finish line, I mean, like, even that kind of pisses me off. And I wasn't there. I know. I probably let it get to me a little bit more, and I should have, put it that way. I mean, I was upset. Yeah, it is. You were upset.

I was mad, you know, or I was upset. And, I mean, I hate it because, you know, crew guys and, you know, people. work on the car. I mean, it's just what they do. It's all they do. How bad it hurt the car? I don't know yet. I'll go by and see it here a little bit.

I don't think it heard it too bad. But I mean, it's, you know, your competitor, you know. I mean, if you're just trying to finish third and not trying to win, I mean, right? I mean, why do it, right? Yeah. That's the tough part I think would be, like I have in my head this daydream of racing late model stocks and going back into that world and playing, right?

And man, it sounds fun. And I remember it as something. of the funnest racing I ever did back in the 90s and boy I just got this image of or a vision of it being this awesome awesome thing but I guess what happens I guess or what I'd be worried about is getting competitive and making it frustrating and making it harder than it has to be you know just like we did when we were cup racers how do you do how do you avoid that because I know you're trying not to put make it go there right you're trying to go have a great time enjoy it and not let it become this quest, right?

This frustrating quest. It's hard. I mean, yeah, it's hard. I mean, you know, I mean, you know, you want to, you know, because you want to win. I think that's, you know, that's got to be the, you know, the desire that you have. And if you don't have it, then maybe you shouldn't do that, you know, and your, your fund level should be at a different level or different something else. But if you're, if you want to try to win at anything, and I think that's where it's at,

but you do fall into that. I mean, you fall into, because that's what you want to do. So I'll take it. I'll take that because it's also for me is, you know, I need something to focus on, you know, because I get kind of wandered out there a little bit. So to focus on that, it's probably a good thing, even though it's kind of drives your life, you know, in some ways. And I probably don't need to do that, but at the same time, it really feels good for me.

You don't need to do what, race? No, I don't need to be wandering out around. Yeah. Like with nothing to do. You need something to do. Like a dart without feathers, you know. I need to be kind of focused on something. Why modifies, though, is, I mean, I know you talk.

about the cars and all that, but like how did you get connected to the team, the people that own this car? What steered you in that direction? Because you raised full-bodied cars, late-mile of stock cars, you know, everything above that. How'd you get here? Just because you'd never done it, a curiosity? Well, you know, it's funny. I used to work for Jay Hedgecock. You probably remember that or hearing that story. And he had modifies, raced at Bowman-German all the time. And I'm like, why would you want to do that? I mean, it's like, that was my path was a full-body car. Yeah. Late-mile stock, right? Late-mile sports and late-mall-stock. So I looked at him as like awkward to me.

So anyway, believe it or not, Chris Williams. Of course, you know Chris. Licensing souvenir, Chris. Yes. So he talked me into going to Bowman Gray a few couple years ago to help him test. He's running a car. I was like, are you running a car? Yeah.

All right, yeah, I'll go up there. I've never been there before. And it's only 15 minutes from my house. And I'm like, okay, I'll go. So I get up there. I paid $5 to get in and took my helmet, fire suit. Did you? Yeah.

So he ran a few laps. He said, all right, get in, try it. So I ran a few laps. I'm like, wow, this is fun, you know? And he said, you come up, come back tonight? I said, I doubt it. You know, I probably won't come back tonight and watch, you know, I'll stay home, watch TV, kind of feel like I don't, you know, I'm not doing it, right?

I said, about six o'clock. I said, I'll go back up there. So I paid $25 to get in. Now, I paid $5 to get in the first 12 o'clock thing. Pay $25 to get in just, you know, for the race. I saw three fights. and a heck of a race. And I thought, daggummit.

I called my dad. I said, that's the best 30 bucks I spent a long time. So that was kind of the hook. So I was hooked. So then I started going back up there with him. So I worked out a deal with the Myers, Bert, his dad, Jason, and drove one of their cars. And I remember, you know, guy, Tony, I might have texted you, Tony Uri, Jr. Oh, yeah.

He was my crew chief and spotter that night. That's so fun. So I told him, after got spun out one time in the infield and made it back out. out, we're cruising around there, and I'm like, dude, I can't believe I'm here, but it's 15,000 people in the grandstands. It's like, awesome. I told him, I said, hey, I think I got a problem. He said, what's that? I said, the A-frame's loose. How do you know? I said, it's first car ever drove that I can see the A-frames. Because they're right there in front of you. I'm like, I think they're loose because I can see it. I just pulled off. So anyway, so that's, that's kind of how

it started. Okay. And then last year, kind of, you know, nothing happened. COVID. We just didn't go up there and race and not much happening. So towards the fall, Mike Smith, Andretti and Terry Hall called me and they said, you know, his brother John had COVID. Couldn't go to Florence. Would you want to come? I was like, yeah, I'll come. Let me think about it.

So thought about it. Called him right back. Said, okay, I'll do it. Fit the seat. The seat fits perfect. I thought, all right, go down there. So we went down there and, you know, run good and finish forth. Yeah.

Like, all right. Yeah, Florence should qualify on the poll. This is the end of the last year. You were there the day before I got there, I think. Yeah. I think we stood by your hauler to watch to see where the groove was. I didn't know where I'd never been there before. So anyway, qualified first, finished fourth, and I was like, okay.

So he's like, you don't want to do this some more? I'm like, I think this would be fun. So that's kind of how it started. So I go back to Chris Williams. So like this weekend, Matt Hirschman won yesterday. And I mean, I knew his dad. I mean, you know, when you go to Loudon, you go to different racetracks up in the north, Bush Grand National or, you know, in the cup days, you always watch the modifies race.

It's best racing. Oh, it's amazing. But never really got, I never had the opportunity to sit in one. You know, and I thought, well, I mean, that's a great feeder race, and it's awesome. I mean, it's unbelievable. And so that's kind of how the story goes as far as me getting in one and driving it because I'm like, I got to break my left foot. Well, I never done that before. There's a lot of things happening.

I was like, okay, we'll figure this out. You're right footbreaker? I was, yeah, I was probably one of the last guys. Wow, really? Yeah, I thought everybody knew that. No. Or nobody knew that. No.

Yeah. That's the mystery. That's the mystery guy. man right foot breaker. Is that unusual? Well, you know, it's just you grow up doing it. Me and Dave Marcus. Okay, so that's unusual.

I wouldn't look at that as like a, you know, like it's an old way of doing it. I just know it's just another way of doing it. I don't know that it's a dated way of doing it. But some people literally drive the car with their left foot on the brake, ready to mash it when they want to. I do that. Dale Jarrett does that.

The only reason I know that is because he's so tall and they'd stick him in those IROC cars at Dayton and Taldega. He's the only one had brake dust on his front tires, front wheels after about 10 laps because he's riding a brake. But some guys like Bobby will just put their left foot over on a rest and just use one foot to slow the car down and go. Don't ask me how or why. I mean, it's just like happening. I always assumed everyone did that. No, no, no.

I didn't know that. It's just a preference as the same as where you put your hands on a wheel. Sure. Yeah. How you use the steering wheel. So anyway, so I had a lot of new things to live. learn but anyway. So you can't drive that car that way with one foot? I figured that out after about half a lap. I was like, well, that's not going to work. What was wrong with it? Why would that work?

It's too tight. You know what I mean? The box down there's too small. Yeah, you can't really do it. It's like, it's like, it's pretty snug and it's just like, you know. How the pedals are very close together? Yeah, I don't need to ask. I'll just do it. So how is that? I'll just adapt. I was learning that after decades of doing it one way, having to try to learn. a new way. Well, it was, it wasn't easy to start with, but it was one of those things after it's like, okay, I did that. It's like, why didn't I do this 20 years ago?

Oh, yeah. You think it's better? Well, I mean, if when the, because you're quicker. Because you're quicker. Because you're quicker. Yes. And the valence days. Oh, God.

You know what I mean? When you need a down. Control the splitter with your root. You know, and probably. You control it with the, you know, or you could hurt what you're doing. Right. But anyway, it's just, it's just a funny, weird thing that I used to do. Interesting.

Yeah. That's interesting to hear you to talk about that. All right. So what we'd like to do in these conversations is what I like to do is try to uncover some of the things that I don't know about you. I want to – there's a lot of stuff about you that I don't know. I see these pictures on Internet of you beside late model stock cars, and I see a picture of you pitting your brother's Piedmont, Monte Carlo in 84 or 83 or something on the pit road at Rockingham. You got to suit and everything. So I want to know about your dad first.

Yeah. All right. When I come into racing and the first thing I remember of you is Daytona running with Dad, everybody crashed Brad Teague and everybody and Darrell, everyone crashed in turn of three. And you and Dad ran that race, nose to tell. It seemed like he's the only two cars left on the track, really. Yeah. But everybody, the whole race had nothing to talk about other than you.

Yeah. All right. Dad's leading. Who's this guy? Yeah. All right. This new guy, Bobby Labani, Terry Labani's brother. And they talked about your dad a lot.

But that's the first thing I remember of you. Yeah. I don't know where you came from or what you were doing before that. Yeah. I heard that your dad's, your dad's, I heard was a real hard ass. Yeah. Right. Was that true?

Is he, like, I heard that he was tough. Yeah. For you guys. He was. He was definitely tough. I mean, from racing quarter midgets to, you know, I don't know. I kind of explained it as, I explained it as he's the toughest, toughest guy with the biggest heart that you'd ever know.

Yeah. You know, I mean, he would be tough on us. And, you know, the greatest compliment I think I could get or give him a story as I was in a Jimmy McCarr and I in a grocery store and Boone. We had cabins up there for a while. And a guy come by and says, hey, man, I really appreciate what you do, you know, or appreciate about you, you know, something about you, you know, and I'm like, that's my dad and my mom. You know what I mean?

Really my dad. I mean, kind of teaching you, you know, right from wrong and all that. So, but he was hard, but, so he was hard on us. And he would, you know, I mean, just, just push you or make sure you did the right thing. And, you know, we'd get on you if you did the wrong thing. Kind of like you're, you know, supposed to be brought up or told. And, you know, and, uh, learn lessons by, you know, some things. I mean, he wouldn't always tell us some things.

You have to learn it on your own. Yeah. But if you screw it up, you heard it, you know. And at the same time as it time went on, it was funny. I'd call him every Sunday, and as time went on in life, you know, he was always like, I don't care if you, if you, you know, something happened to say for the day. He said, I don't care if you turn around backwards, went wrong way in the racetrack. I'd still say they, everybody else did it wrong. So he was all about you, you know, about us, Terry and I.

But he was hard. I mean, he was hard. And I mean, just, I remember, you know, racing in a, you know, kid in a quarter midget at five years old. I mean, you know, let's go. Practice. Let's go. Let's go. You know, when you won, it was great.

And if you didn't win, it was okay. but if you messed up, you know, you didn't. You knew about it. You kind of knew about it. Yeah. I remember, I don't think Terry would tell this story. But I mean, I remember, you know, my dad being hard on my brother, but my brother was skipping school. Oh, boy.

So you don't skip school. You don't skip school. Yeah. So he was skipping school. And I know there's more to the story, and, you know, he was looking after me because he was worried about me, but he'd skip school. So my dad got on and made him run laps around the neighborhood. you know and the story is of course I don't know how this could have got stretched a little bit but the story is my dad would sit there and wait for him to come by and kick him in the butt as he went

by yeah so he was I learned a little bit more from Terry he wouldn't as hard on me because I saw he saw what was possible he was harder on Terry I dodged those moments you know what I mean yeah so I mean they're you know but I mean he he just you know he just I mean it's you know he just, once things done right, you know, once people, you know, once, the biggest thing is, I guess when we were back in the Bushground National Days, I mean, I mean, there was people that, you know, would come back years later and they always respected my dad, even though he chewed them out. Yeah. But, you know, he did it in a way that. Sounds a lot like Tony Yuri, well, he would chew you out. Yes. But you loved him. Right. You know, exactly. You're like,

I'll go to war with this guy. I was, I'm glad you said that, because I was trying to think of it, hearing him describe his dad, I'm like, who would that be similar to? And is Tony Uri's senior a good example. Yeah, probably so. I mean, you know, that's that generation or that, you know, they brought up that way and all that. What was your dad's history in racing aside from, you know, taking you boys to the racetrack? What was his involvement in racing before that? Well, he was born in Rumford, Maine, and so Oxford was his home train. Man. I mean, the whole whole time I thought you guys were Texans. Cowboys. Deep roots. No. Maine. Born in Rumford, Maine. He was a, So we go to Oxford, I mean, I think he skied on the, you know, ski team, ski jumps, stuff like that.

What? Jumping? Yep. I think he did, yeah. Oh, Lord. What ski team? Snow ski. No, what do you mean?

No, a team like the, like the college? Yeah, college or a national team or what? I don't know. I don't know about that. They have ski clubs? So curious. I don't know about that. Well, I just know the story.

As I remember, a funny story on the side note is that the milkman would bring the milk jugs in the glass, you know, containers. right. And I think that guy made it to the Olympics as a ski jumper. But you know, back in the day, they didn't train 24-7 to be a ski jumper. They just did then things. You know, so that's kind of the... Wait, the milkman made the Olympics? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know of it. Mine is blown. Yeah. Well, it's just different world now. It is. So, um, so anyway, Rumpford, uh, so Oxford was his track. So he, I don't remember, I think he said he'd run a couple times there and is like, I'm better working on him. Oh. So anyway, so that was his deal. And then, and then, and

And then before Terry and I, when he went to the Navy, joined the Navy, Korean War, went overseas for six months, came back. He told me this other day, came back to somewhere in Maryland. They said, you want to, you're going to Corpus Christi, or I think he had a choice to go to Kingsville or somewhere. So he chose Corpus. He's at the Naval Air Station, so he got hooked up with another guy. And the racetrack there is CC Speedway, so he started helping a mechanic. He was more of a mechanic. Gotcha.

So he was mechanicking on a guy's 70. or 69 Torino, Ford Torino, and on a short track there in Corpus. And as funny as it says, I talked to one of my buddies on the way down here. That was his dad that he worked for back in those days. So Slicks moved to here, and so we're all still family. And, you know, Slick's known my family before I was born. Yeah. So that was his deal.

He was a mechanic, C.C. Speedway and helped guys out. and, you know, the Dub Rollins and Jared Rollins and those guys that some couple of them went to Daytona and helped on a guy's car, Al Yeomans that raced on the quarter mile track every Saturday night. Okay. So your dad's a mechanic, working hard at the racetrack, bringing that home. You guys are probably going with him at times as little kids. So in my mind, you fix all this for me. You got a, in my mind, I'm imagining or just with the limited knowledge I have, you've got a late start, right?

Because I see you going to help your brain. brother all the way up through his cup career. But I also see pictures you drive in late model cars around here in old Carolina. So when did you all leave Texas? When did that happen? Had it be 1979. We packed up like the Beverly Hillbillies. Because of Terry's career?

Yes. So Terry was racing in Corpus. It got barred from Corpus for fighting. Hey, what? Yeah, we had a couple crew guys that they fought. We fought a lot. It was awesome. You were the crew guy.

I was not. I was just a kid. Okay. I was just kidding, man. I was in the grandstand watching. So they ran the Labonis out of Texas. Yeah, Corpus. No, well, not really.

So we had to go to Houston to race, and that's where he met Billy Hagan, and, you know, kind of that story goes where he had the opportunity to come to North Carolina. So I was racing go-carts for me, but the family moved from Corpus Christi to Trinity, North Carolina. Okay. And so my dad went to work with the team that my brother's going to drive for. Really? So that was in 79. As a mechanic? As a mechanic, yes.

What are you thinking? Like you're racing, right? Your cart. Did your dad say, did your dad let you know that you were going to keep racing? Or were you left up in there? Like, oh, what's happening? Where am I? Well, I mean, when you're 15, 14, 15, I mean, you know, nowadays it's different.

You're going to race Millbridge or you're going to race somewhere else, right? At 12 in a late model, right? So at 12 or 14 then, what are you going to do? You're not really, you know, you're not really, it's not that way. They're not basing their decisions off of what your future is as a 14-year-old. I know, but I'm trying to think about him and his mind. Like, it's just like anybody else. Like, okay, I'm going to move from one state to the other.

You got friends. You got school. You got all these worries. And he's racing. Is he hooked on racing? Is he thinking in his mind like, yeah, this is great. I'm excited to be going in my brother's future and all that. But what have I got?

I got friends. Am I going to get the race? Yeah. Am I, they have this kind of race and where we're going? Yeah. Well, I had a go-car. So we had a Yamaha. We had a McCullough motor on it, 93.

Do you remember the chassis? It had to be a Marguet, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. That was a Marguet. So we go, we move up here and we started racing at a club, man. Whatever chassis you had, that's like you're part of that club. I didn't know. Well, I got a comment later.

So I ended up, I raced at like North Davidson Raceway, I think it was. A little dirt track for go-carts, right, go-carting. And I think I did that like once or twice and stripped the chain, stripped the clutch, teeth off the clutch. And I was like, I didn't like. that too dirty that's just yeah so anyway so i ended up racing enduro's go-carts uh just met some people and stuff like that endurros explain what that is uh it's a laydown go-kart like at rockingham uh yeah charlotte Daytona yeah you did that yeah all right so i was just let me let me let me

let me let me give you one thing so but i also had a little mini bike and i was just a kid yeah so just going to the races so that was kind of that path and i mean i didn't know between the go-carts and all that stuff i mean again I was 14, 15 years old. I'm just going to school. And, you know, I'm just glad to be there, I guess. You know what I mean? Yeah.

But I'm loving racing because we're, I'm getting to see it and go. But as time goes on, of course, you turn 16, then you start. But yeah, but the endurros, yeah. So did all that for, I don't know, three or four years, three years, I guess. All right. So I was, I got these, I got a bunch of old souvenir programs or race programs. And I was looking at one yesterday at Rockingham. souvenir program from 1981 and they ran on duros there right and I'm looking at pictures of

these things in this magazine and I got questions like so that's that looks extremely dangerous right I mean I can understand running it like a dirt track yeah a little tiny old dirt track and you know flipping and doing all the things you do there because I did that but getting on a go cart and just laying down and going what a hundred and hundred miles an hour probably probably a hundred in a stock class yeah okay that that that seems not cool Well, I think when you're 15, 16, it probably didn't resonate that that was something could go wrong. Was it fun? I had a blast.

I really did. I, you know, went to, hooked up with the guys at Comic Cart Sales. So, Mark Dismore up north of CKS, and there's a Comic Cart Cell south. Mark Dismore, that name sounds so familiar. I rock. Okay. Yep. Yep.

And more, but, you know, IndyCar and I rock. That's where I met him. Well, I think I raced against him back in the go-car days. But, you know, I saw him last year. But, yeah, I rock was the main thing. So, yeah, I mean, we just, you know, I mean, I don't know that you, you didn't see the danger factor. You just did it. Did you learn about, did you feel like the draft and all that stuff?

Well, I can tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you exactly. It was the experience that I had. I mean, Rockingham was like a little bit of a short track, you know, because, you know, I mean, and what we do is run the oval until you get down the back straightway, through the road course and back on the oval. And again, you're in a go-cart, you're laying down. You got the tack and the, probably got the tempter gate.

with the cylinder head temperature gauge and something else, RPM, strapped to you like a belt, and you're just laid in there, right? Yeah. So you go run, and, you know, I mean, it was a blast. I mean, you know, learned a lot, you know, and had fun and raced. And we had a couple races there where we ran just the oval. Like, you know, at the end of the day, everybody put in 15 bucks and you run 10 laps on the other.

And I'll never forget, I thought, you know, this is going to be great, right? I should just run the oval. Yeah. And there's no hay bales. Right. Right. So we haul off into one to run about a lap. I remember this vividly.

This guy spins out into three, and he does just the 360 in front of me. And I'm like, it looked like a cup car smoking off the tires. You know, I'm like, oh, wow, that was, you know, that was bad, you know, but we made it, you know. So anyway, so Rockingham, you remember? So I'm running on the Oval, and we're drafting. You know, of course you're drafting. And all of a sudden, I see somebody on the apron, I thought, what in the world? And it's Mike Swain, Sr.

Oh, yeah. He's on the oval, on the flat, running like that, coming up on the banking on the straightaway and go down, you know, making a shorter line out of it. So it's like, what a trip, right? I mean, so I was like, whoa. So here I was, you know, 15 or 16 years old. But the biggest one I did are, you know, we ran Savannah. We ran Charlotte, Rockingham a lot, Talladega, the Daytona.

So I went to Daytona for the cart week, which is usually between Christmas and New Year's. So my dad loaded up in a van. My dad and I loaded up in van. We had one comet cart, one Yamaha. one set of tires and our starter and battery was on a on a hand truck so we go down there and we unload and we're by guys that's flown over from italy running supercar or shifter cart stuff like that there's a thousand entries you know yeah Kathy hartman Gary hartman Hartman clutches they're over there in his tractor trailer looking box truck thing like back in that day so I think this was 79 or 80

anyway so I started like 75th and run a 45 minute race and I can see them I can see all the carts in front of of me drafting. And I couldn't catch them on the big track, but I could catch them through the road course. So anyway, long story short, we can get to the end. I finished fourth. Whoa. And fourth or fifth. And Scott Pruitt was either second. Todd Spaud was up there. You know, I mean, so, I mean, you know, you know, you know, you know, in the ad that are, you know, in the column that I was reading in the book yesterday. Yeah. So I always, when I see Scott and I still see him, you know, a couple years ago, I saw him in Europe. and people asked me something.

I said, my favorite story about Scott was me finishing like fifth behind him at Daytona, 1979 or 80, you know what I mean? So that was fun. I mean, that was great stuff. I mean, but yeah, you just, you just race and go-carts. That's what I did. So your brother's career is taking off in the Cup Series, and y'all were finally living in North Carolina.

You're racing some go-carts and other things. How are you, you know, how are you creating opportunities for your stuff? I mean, there's got to be a ton of focus with your dad working for the cup team, your brother driving in that series. How are you creating, you know, these opportunities for yourself to get in eventually late mall stock cars or stuff like that? Where did you go beyond the go-car? Well, you know, for a while, I'd pick up a race here and there or I'd try to, okay?

So I heard that you raced at Caraway in a sportsman race. My dad was in like 1980. Yeah. Like, what was that? Like, how did you do that? Well, I begged, borrowed, and stole everything I could get back then, obviously. I still do it now. It's no different, a little different world.

But I think it was Mike Swain's car. Borrowed a motor from Hagen, basically took it out of the back of the shop and put it in there. We went down there and qualified ninth. Darrell Wheeler got spun out. I got spun out and tapped me off the corner and sitting on the back straight away. And I remember your dad going by going kind of pointing his finger at me. And I'm like, I'm stuck because the starter won't cranking. I need help.

and I asked the guy yesterday I said where did I finish in that race I don't remember he said you knew who won it said your dad won and I don't remember I don't remember that because I was you know worried about me I guess at the time but yeah I mean that was you know Sam Mard was there right Monk Tate was there the best one was the jean glover yep I mean he was a champion the year before so he started 10th I started 9th I'm like I ain't got a clue why I'm here you know I mean I begged barred stole everything just to go make the race and have fun and you know that was all I had you So it's not like I can do that every week. It was once and done.

I know. That's kind of, I mean, to help people understand, that's kind of like Xfinity Series is today. I know it's, you know, it really is. It was kind of like the next step was cut beyond racing sportsman cars, right? And what year do you think this was? This is 1980. In 1980. Yeah.

So your dad won, right? I think he did. I suppose. Saturday night. Yeah. So I'm sure he raced somewhere on Sunday. That was a Saturday night. He comes and races and, you know, made out of it.

out at the payout window and went to the race the next day. When you say you're begged, borrowed, and stole, I mean, you're basically just begging people to give you a chance. Like at this point, you're trying to get someone to take a chance on you. Correct? Exactly. And I made friends in Mike Swain, I mentioned earlier, Phil Parsons, drove for him in the Arndale.

You drove for Phil? Nope. He drove for Phil. Oh. So, and their shop was in Archdale, a little two-car garage. So Phil had no help besides Odie that lived in Michigan that worked for GM. him. So, like, you know, can you come help? And I'd go hang out with Mike because of go cards. So I hung out there way too much. But anyway, I'm just like, I'm sure they're like,

is this kid coming back or like, you know, like, get out of here. So anyway, I'd go hang out. And he, he drove for him. So I would, feels like, hey, do you want to, you can help me out, man, help me out. I was like, yeah, I don't know how to do anything. He said, we'll take the rear end out of that car. I was like, all right. So, you know, you take a nine-inch forward rear end out and it's laying on you, laying on you. By the time you get it out, you've got grease everywhere. And, I mean, it's like, I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah.

But I'm doing it. You're doing it? You're doing it? Yeah. Wanting to learn. What would, what the field's car look like? Was this at 28? It should be 27?

27? Yeah. Had management resource systems on it. Okay. It wasn't back when, it was the Skull car. It was before Skull car. Before that. Yeah.

All right. So, so you're helping feel. Yeah. You're going on the track? We went to Daytona. For the Arca Race. We ran the Archer race and the Bush race. with the same car.

That's awesome. And so we took a decal off, changed the number on it. So I got a note from school. I got a note. I got a note to get out of like two weeks of school or one week of school, something like that. Oh, so you're in school in high school? Yeah, yeah. And so I go down there with them.

And, I mean, we, I don't know, we were we finished, but, I mean, we, I think we thought we dropped the booster off the carburetor down the carburetor. I think we had a magnet going down with a string, trying to. pick it out. Oh, Lord. I mean, it was just, I told Phil afterwards, I said, dude, I'll never work for you again. That was the hardest week I've ever worked. Oh.

And I'm in high school, right? And we laugh about it now because we, you know, obviously, you know, friends, you know. And we laugh about it. And, but yeah, I did that back in the day. And that was, I had to be 80, 81, something like that. So that was kind of an initiation or whatever you want to call it. But so it was just. me and Odie and Phil basically with some, you know, a little bit of help here and there.

And, I mean, heck, I didn't know anything. But, I mean, that's just, you know, you just, we're just trying to get there. That must have been a blast. But I don't know. I know you said it was a lot of work, and I'm sure it was just, like, overwhelming and just a bunch. But how does that transfer into an opportunity to drive in a sportsman race? Like, that's the part I don't get. Well, it was, that, that opportunity was one of Phil's cars or one of Mike's cars that Phil drove for.

That you drove. Yeah, later. So I think I don't know how I got that opportunity. I have to probably ask my daddy from your remember more and about it than I did. But got that opportunity, you know, being over there helping out and stuff like that. Understood, yeah. So you're bouncing around, helping Phil. When did you end up going to the racetrack to help your brother?

When did that start? Yep. So suitcase, Jake. Okay. Jack Elder. Yep, was at the shop. And, of course, now, that's all I did was, you know, racing, racing, racing. eat, sleep, drink, racing, right?

Yep. How are your grades? I just made it. I was good. High school education worked out good. So, anyway, I would go to the shop after school and just start sweeping the floor Monday to the cup shop. The cup shop. Hagen.

Yep. Jake Elder. And I start sweeping the floor. And then on Saturdays I'd mop the floor. Are you sweeping the floor like looking side eye and over there at Jake's if he sees you sweeping the floor? Are you like hoping somebody recognizes like this sort of effort you're putting in to sort of get into doing more? Doing more? You know, I don't know.

I probably just was sweeping the floor. Come on. I was really wanting to do more all the time. Yeah. I never wanted to just sweep the floor. Okay. So I would, you know, I would. Did you get paid?

I wore them out. I probably got paid nothing. I'm sure I got paid nothing. Yeah. But I mean, he's just doing it after class, after school. I get out part day because I was... What's the age you at between you and your brother? Seven and a half years.

Okay. So what I would do is I would just, I would go over there and just do that. And then, you know, I'd learn how to weld. You know, learn how to do things. So Eddie Dickerson taught me how to weld. And so I'd heal the arc from him. And then, you know, I'd just start doing more and more, you know, and help, you know, can I hold the front end plate to put the car on the front end plate

and watch you look at setting the front end, castor and camber? Yeah, you know, just learning all that stuff. and that was my college. You know, my degree was happening. I just didn't know it at the time. So that's when I started going over there. And, I mean, it was just sweep of the floor, mop the floor, clean up. I mean, I'd wipe the wheels down.

I would go to the bank, get money, get cash, wash the vans. We'd get cash for the poker games on Wednesday night. And I finally got to play. They didn't let me play for a long time. Then finally got to play when I won. Jake didn't let me play no more. So anyway, I have to admit, I had a nickname. What was it?

Broom boy. That's what I did. Yeah. Because Jake would go, you know, Jake was like, where's that broom boy at? He would want you to come up there and do something for him, right? But so like Gary D. Hart, he was Welder boy. Welder boy. Yeah, so he was obviously Gary D.

What every job was? Yeah. Hey, where's that welder boy at? Brand boy. Yeah. And I remember one time, D. Hart quit. So I helped him load up his toolbox. So I come to work the next day in the afternoon,

and Jake was doing something. And he goes, hey, where's that welder boy at? I said, Jake, he quit. Well, why did he quit? I got tired to listen to you, probably. You go get him and get him back over here. I would go over to Gary's shop, and I said, hey, Jake, want you to come back? We loaded up, Gary's toolbox, came back over there.

Really? Just like that. So that was part of my, you know, part of the days back then. And it grew when Dale Eammon came, Richie Barr's came. And then I was not just sweeping the floors, I was full-time. So quickly, I'll just, you know, I'll hit it. But, I mean, I was full-time. I mean, I learned how to do roll centers on the ground with Richie Bars.

Yeah. I went to the back and was welding up water pumps, you know, when you had to put the bolt in the back of it to hit the time and chain cover, you know, so the cam wouldn't, you know, slide. Yeah. You know, and I'd ultralight, magniflux, I'm sorry, magniflux. Yeah, for cracks. Magniflux, pistons and all that stuff.

You know, so every day I'd go to work trying to do more and more and more. So as time went on, I was learning more about cars. Pete Wright, Steve Meal. I know Pete Wright. Yep. Yeah. Oh, yeah. DeHart, Wayne Dalton, you know, whether it was sanding on a car, whatever it was.

I mean, you know, that's, so that's just what I did. And so that's learning, learning, learning, you know, I'm still the parts guy. Or I still go to the bank, you know, get money or wash the vans, whatever. You know, your checks would cash sometimes, and sometimes they wouldn't cash. So you just had to manage it right. But that's just kind of what I did. And so that's how I got to the track with my brother on Sundays. And you saw that pictures of me standing there at the back as a crew guy.

So that was full time. And that was, you know, that was my everyday job. All right. So are you missing, are you going every week with them, every race? Yeah. I did that for probably about three years, probably two or three years. And you're trying to do a little racing every once in a while or no? I wasn't, I don't think I wouldn't do as much, and that really part of that time, and then 86 started rolling around.

And so I got a deal to race at late-mall stock. Your brother won a championship in 84. Yeah. You're working on, you're going to the racetrack with him that year. Yeah. What did that feel like? Well, I mean, that was, I mean, obviously, you know. Did you all realize, like, what had happened?

No, probably not. Probably not. I mean, I remember the year before, or two years before we lost Budweiser. We were out in Riverside, California, and we were having, Budweiser was giving us the farewell dinner. So Wayne Dalton, he'd order two drinks and throw one in the plant beside us and drink one. And we was just like, but we got Piedmont Airlines, which was great. So everything was looking good. And then we win the championship, go to New York, go to the Waldorf, celebrate the whole thing.

And, I mean, you know, I don't know that we know what we knew what we did. I mean, but, I mean, being a part of a championship team then, you know, you celebrate, however, Today's different. Sure. But, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I think that it was, I mean, looking back on pictures, just like, wow, I can't believe we did that. Right.

At the time, you're just like, hey, we just did it. We just did it. Yeah, what's next? You know, we were, but we would go to the track and Eminem taught us a lot, and we were just like, we were unbeatable, you know, that year to go there. What team was that? That was, Hagen still? The 44, yeah, Piedmont Airlines.

One thing I remember about that, I mean, it was really young, but that car was a, a car was bulletproof. Yeah. Never broke. Never. Like finished every single race and finished in the top five pretty much every week. Well, Dewey Live and Good Built and Motors. I mean, he'd, eight o'clock at night, he put him on the dino. I mean, it was him and five, a few of the guys, you know, several of the guys. But I mean, every week we would have a system in Pete Wright and Steve Mill and I and, you know, whoever else, you know, obviously other people in there too. But we'd take those cars apart every week. New nuts, new bolts, new ball joints, new ball joints, new everything, new tie rods.

Every week. We didn't let it, you know, we didn't let it go. Yeah. Until something broke. So that was, you know, that was kind of our, I think that's what helped us and kind of set an example to do that and get better, even better yet. Well, who was the crew chief of the championship year? Dale Eman. So Del Inman had replaced Jake Elder? Yeah.

Okay. Wow, those are two big names and probably vastly different. A little bit different. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'd say, I'd say a complete opposite of the spectrum of that. Okay, okay. Well, the reason why, like, Jake Elder's stories never cease to amaze me because, like, everybody's memory of Jake Elder, like, he seems like to be the ultimate hard ass. I mean, like, is he, is that what he was?

Jake? Yeah. Yeah. And so Dale Inman completely different. Oh, yeah. Okay. Softy, you know? Okay.

But he knew how to work, he know how to make people, get people to work, you know, without him not having to do it, but he made people work, which is what's supposed to be like, you know, I mean. And, you know, Jake was just at the time. I mean, it was just all he knew. how to make a car go fast and he didn't know how to get 20 20 people to work you know not a people different Jake was like could set the car up it's going to be fast probably get the pole everywhere you went I remember him just being really good at getting polls with uh but anyhow buddy baker yeah so um but yeah he would he'd have a new job every six months yeah right he wouldn't even make a year case jake elder that's why so did emman replace him because he left he like

notoriously because that's what he did I think that's what happened Yeah, probably something like that. Jake would just get tired of it. Yeah, I don't know why. I'd be interesting. I wish we could have a guy, like, you know, get him on here and ask him. All right, so are you, is there anything going on in your head about like, man, I really want a race or, man, I'm good. I think I'm, I'm a mechanic.

What are you thinking? Like, are you, because, I mean, dude, you become your Hall of Famer, right? You got this incredible career. But what I'm hearing right now is you had three years where you just were going to the racetrack with your brother is a full-time mechanic. You had a job, getting a paycheck. Like, you're on this other completely different path. Yeah.

What's going on in your mind? Well, there was a little bit of racing, you know, through that. I mean, it was that one-off here, very little stuff, right? Took a late model sportsman car. Did you build it? Bush and Nash car. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so you built a car. Yep. We took it to Martin'sville. Yep. Took it to Martinsville. Yeah. Just, I mean, again, begged, barred, stole everything. All the sheet metal.

Yeah. Time, you know, everything I could do. What that car looked like? That was in Malibu. That was the, White, number 81 Malapin. Didn't run it much. Yeah, never,

Carrey Bowdenheimer car. Okay. So, anyway, we took a Texas run a road course down there. I had a Boltonhammer car. It's like being a part of a club. You in that club. Got it.

A lot of clubs. It is, man. But yeah, I mean, so I, you know, I was having fun working. I mean, I'll be honest with you. I was making $750 a week. Nice. I was making money.

Yeah. And wasn't saving as much as I should have. But I was making money, probably saving a little bit. I was living at home. So anyway, just, you know, I don't know, meandering out, you know, a dark... When you take that low Eighty-one car and go race, how's that working out?

I mean, what kind of results are you getting, seeing any glimpse of what's possible what would become reality with you? I went, I'd go to Martinsville. Yeah. And a couple times I went. Was this a late-mile stock? No. 300 or does a sportsman car steal?

Sportsman car. Okay. I remember qualifying, I think I was 20th or something like that. I think I had to run a heat race. That's what it was. I run a heat race. Morgan Shepern's in front of me. He had to run a last chance race.

Very fast. Morgan's good. Yeah. And I think I messed up on a head old Ford master cylinder. And you had to pump the brakes up under caution because if not, you wouldn't have the brakes. And I learned that lesson a little bit and roughed up a little bit. I think I know I made the race, you know, run, you know, whatever, 20th, you know.

But, I mean, it's one of those things. It's like, you know, we ain't got nothing. Yeah, did your brother go help you with those or no? Oh, yeah. He couldn't? Oh, yeah. Yeah, he could. I mean, he could go.

He would go. He always helped me. He still helps me, but he always helped me. I mean, I was a picture of the day somewhere. Somebody sent me him torque in the right front wheel in that car, I think, at Martinsville. Dude, we got to get that picture. Yeah. You flag that.

You can get that for us. I get that for you. So I knew a mechanic was like making money. Racing's like hard. No different than today. It's hard to go to the track. It's hard to, you know, is it many stocks? Is it late money?

How do you graduate up? and I probably should have been racing many spots every weekend on Saturday night instead. But, you know, I was like, I had to go race a sportsman car, you know, as Morgan Shepherd's doing it, and all these other guys, and Sam Ard's doing it, and Jimmy Hensley's doing it, you know. So anyway, but that was about it. And then finally in 86, I got a deal to run some late-maw stock. I ran Orange County, South Boston, Orange County. Whose car was that? Vernon Lloyd.

Who's he? He's a guy in Roxborough, just an Orange County guy, you know, had a car. had a car for a while. Somebody else was driving for him. Probably. I don't remember. All I remember is had leaf springs on it. Oh, gosh.

We're racing late-mile stop with leaf springs. And drum brakes. Oh, my gosh. Really? Yeah, I'm like, all right. So I remember my dad and I go up there and the guy, you know, he was all tickled to death. He's painted it. You know, we got a sponsor.

Black with, was it 77? No, this was a number one. Number one, Birch fencing. Okay. So a guy that I met was going to sponsor, you know, a couple hundred dollars to race probably, right? I remember we painted it, we went up there to look at it, and he just put a piece of towel over the drums, you know, and painted the car, and like the frame got overspray. It's like, of course, I'm coming from the cup deal. It's like, even we didn't do that, right?

So anyway, so I went and did a few races that in Orange County, South Boston, Orange County, you know, like six. And that was the year that Todd Bodine ran some races up there with Danny Bumpus. I'm trying to think, I think Jeff Burton was kind of about that time. as well. He might have been doing his dad's car, you know, but, and that was that late mile stock back in that day. So this is prior to having my late mile stock, but that was kind of my entry. Okay, okay, okay, okay. So the timeline for you is, that was 86, and. Did you have any, like, moments of success with this drum brake car? No. Yeah, right? No, most fun I had, two things I learned. Were you literally the only car out there with drum brakes? I don't know. God, all the way. I can't even

imagine. You know, you had Barry Biggerly. Oh, God. Yeah, but damn, nobody had drum brakes. It's 1986. I know it. I think I might have been a little bit behind, but I mean, just kind of do what you've got to do, right? Was the front clip stock?

I'm sure it was. I'm sure it was. It had to be. I would think I had it back then. But, you know, I remember Barry Beggerli and Sandy Stigall and, God, yeah, there's some awesome names. You think about those names, right? Yeah, yeah.

So anyway, but, so that was learning, you know, learning. You know, figured out. Two things I learned was we broke a crankshaft one night, and it just shook the rearview mirror clean off of it. I'm like, well, that's the first time I ever felt motor blow up like that. And I was like, okay, that's a good learn. And then I took the guy that owned the car, I said, hey, once you ride it with me and just I'll show you what this thing feels like.

So we put him over the right side, you know, floorboard. I didn't get off pit road, and he was screaming. I was like, well, okay, you're not even, you know, it's like, I guess I don't guess I get to show you how tight it is or how loose it. Probably it's a good thing that that didn't have. Probably good. Yeah. So, yeah, that was 86. So I was racing some late-mile stocks and kind of having a good time still working, flying on Sundays to the races. Wow.

In a baron, beat trap baron. Yeah. And so the six of us had fly. But that was going to be a turning point that year for me. Because then it was like you hit on, you want to race or do you want to be a mechanic? How hard was that? Not hard at all. Right. No. It was easy. The decision was made for me. Oh. Yeah. It was simple. So Terry says, told Billy Hagan, I'm going to drive for Junior Johnson. Junior Johnson, right? God, that's great opportunity. You're going to drive for Junior Johnson, you know?

So Matt, you know, announced that on a whatever day. Well, a couple days later, they come through and they told my dad, they said, we don't need you anymore. I was like, oh, man, well, the day went by, and I didn't get cut. I'm like, all right, I made it. I'm like, awesome, this is great. So the next day I'm down there in the fab shop, building a fender, English wheel, me and Mark Lamberter, and they come down and said, hey, what are you doing next year? Or no, what are you doing?

I said, I'm building this fender. They said, no, what are you doing next year? I was like, oh, crud, I didn't make it. So I got fired. So basically, I was like, well, what are you going to do? I can't go get a job. I tried, but nobody would hire me. So I tried to get a job at Billy Stavolos for Stavola, and they wouldn't hire me.

Why? Well, yeah, you're a mechanic, and you've got experience at this point. Why would nobody hire you? I even drove the truck one time, so I got a big resume. But they wouldn't hire me because I was Terry's brother. What? Because that's kind of a, you know. Yeah.

I mean, it's like, yeah. They don't want you, Sharon? I guess. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't even think, I wouldn't even know how Sharon meant, you know. But that was probably. I got you. You know, and it wasn't like a, it probably didn't have a rule.

It's not like they had a handbook. It was just kind of the way it was. Man. So I actually applied for a job and they, it didn't hire me. You know, whatever the reason. They didn't hire me. So now it's coming pretty much, well, what are you going to do now? So I ended up I went to work for Jay Hedgcock. He builds chassis.

Yeah, yeah. So I went to work for Jay. What kind of chassis does he build at this time? Late Mollstock. That's it. Purely that? I think so. I think it's all late Mollstock.

Okay. He builds chassis today. At the racetrack. Yep. So, yeah. So I went to work there, saved up enough more. money to buy a car and a motor and went to carry away and race. So that's kind of the, that's how that started when you think about what were you going to do, I was pretty happy making

$750 a week, working on cars, racing a little bit. Yep. And then it was like, well, now you're making what? Uh, minus. Because it's your own car you're racing. Well, I just wondering what he's making a week. It has caught. Oh, I think it's $250. Yeah. Jeff Burton, you talked to Jeff Burton about that. Did he work there too? He did? Yes. Yeah. Did he work there the same time as you? I think he made more money than me. Y'all worked there together? Yeah, a little bit.

It is crazy. So, man, I mean. He made more money an idea. Just remind him of that. Let me tell you, I stood on, I don't know how many driver intro stages in my career with him, Burton, Phil Parsons, and all kinds of other people with no idea. And you'd never know it by standing there watching them that they all knew each other. Yeah.

So well. Right. Like they all. like worked at the same place and they like they had this all had this grind of getting to the to the elite level of cup series racing and had went through all these same sort of pathways to get there and you'd never know it well that that's not the conversation you typically have at the driver intro stage that's just blows me away that I don't hear about it till till now you know that you all knew each other in a different way than just hey man we're competitors

Yeah, right, right. Kind of grew, it almost feels like they kind of grow up together. Right. Like, y'all didn't just show up the track and, hey, that's the guy I'm racing against. Right. Like, you'd work in this building with this guy. Like, y'all, like, there's camaraderie and going to lunch and doing the things you do, right? I sense a little, I sense a little frustration that Burton made more money than you do, or you did.

I mean, it's clearly something you're still wrestling with. Yeah. How'd you make that much money? How'd you talk with him in paying you that much money? Burton can talk himself into a good deal Well, let me ask you this. So you get working at Hedgecock, that's great because now you're going to race a late model car.

Here's the guy with answers to everything you could possibly have a question for in terms of race, you know, the chassis set in the car up and all the things. I'm just, wait, you fix it. All right. Jeff Burton's there. He's racing.

He's good. I can ask him things. He's winning. What happened? Is that true? Uh, kind of. So, you know, my brother had a how car before that. Okay.

So he'd run some late model races. And that's the left-hender chassis, like offset chassis, correct? Offset. It's not a true late model. No, no, no. It's an offset car. Right. So he raced at some Franklin County, different places, right?

Saturday night shows, make money, right? So I'd already bought a howl car for my late model. So I bought a howl car. So that was my chassis. Oh. So you didn't have a chassis from Hedgecock where you're working. Well, I already had one. It's all I could afford.

You already had a how. Yeah, had a how car, yeah. And it's an offset chassis? It was a perimeter car. Okay, so it's a true late model. All right. It was, they didn't like it, but anyway, NASCAR didn't like it, which that's all right.

They didn't like much about me anyway for a long time. Why? Because we showed up with a how car. Okay. That nobody liked that. There's no, there ain't no how cars. Right. They called it a dirt car.

That's what they thought it was, a dirt car. How's a dirt car? It's just dirt car. I'm like, it's not a dirt car. good Orange County. I ain't rolled off the trailer, and they said, just put it back on. You can't run it.

Why? You got hym joints in the back for truck arms. We need monoballs. Okay, so we... You fix it? Yeah, well, we covered them up. But, you know, and then they said, well, we don't like your rear clip.

Why? It's offset the wrong way. So we had to fix that. I mean, it just didn't like that stuff. So anyway, it was fun. All right, so you cut this car all up to make it work. And it still worked. It was fine.

Yeah. How did it drive? That was awesome. one a lot. Yeah. My favorite, it was one of my favorite cars. I mean, you know,

just put the body on myself and did all that, you know, at night. Yep. At home? My dad's shop. And your dad's shop? What kind of shops he got? It was a 30 by 40.

Okay. We had three cars in it one time, but it was. Tight. Yeah, we had late model in it. All this time your dad's helping you. He's working for junior Johnson. He'd come home at night.

We'd work all night. He'd go back to work. I'd go to work at Jays, and you'd come back and work. Race on Saturday nights. Every Saturday night at Carraway Speedway. I know it was a grind and it sucked. It sounds awesome.

I know, right? I know. That's the most purest way of doing it, right? Have your day job, go home, work all night. Yeah. Go race on the weekend. There is something about that. That's the modified.

It's real night. It's, you know, I'm leaving here going there. So, you know what I mean because it's fun. Okay. So what you're saying is what you're doing now with this modified is getting very close to that. Yes. And that's what your aim is. Right.

And that's the people in this. stands. They had autographed, you know, or a track fan appreciation thing yesterday. People come down there looking around, you know, I mean, you know, cool stuff. Yeah. I mean, you know, I know people can do it nowadays at a cup deal, but it's kind of harder process to get through to get there or, you know, back a couple years ago. But anyway, yeah, so that's kind of part of it, you know, to get back to that.

Interesting. So you're building this car or you built this car, you went in a lot of races with it, Halcar. No one else has a how car. What is net? Is this the one with the Buick body? That's Concord. That's a year later. Okay.

So what happens to this Halcar? That how car that I raised in one, we raced at Concord in a late model stock race. Okay. And then I also had an offset late model car, which would be like a modified with the body on it, right? So how I had a couple of those offset how cars run the Big Ten races. Yes. Okay. Big Ten races at Concord were a big deal back then.

Some of the best racing. Frater Query. Rich Bickle. Rich Bickle. Dave Mayer, yeah, Bouch Miller, Mitch Miller,

Mike Eddy, come down some. Big names. I mean, big names. Jack Sprague. Big name. So,

oh, he had some great races with Jack and all of them. So, so anyway, so that car came later. I run some All-American Challenge races

with that. There's a V6 and put the Buick body on it. So, but I ran that my HAL car at Concord one time and I sold it,

and the Petty's got it. So Richie and Mark and all them raced it at Caraway until they, you know, wore it out. Some have it. Some years, yeah.

I think they flipped it on the backstretch. Oh, my. So. So you're running, now you're kind of transitioning out of the true late model into a perimeter or a left-hand chassis car or an offset car, right? Yeah. And good success, right?

Yeah. Big Ten. A handful of Big Ten races, yeah. Okay. This is back when Concord on, this is out on 601, Highway 601, back when it was a true oval. Yeah. Yeah. The best part.

They messed it up. They messed it up. Yeah. Like anybody else that changes the track. Yeah. We're getting very close to that Daytona race where I saw you for the first time. I live around here. I had not heard of you.

I mean, I don't know that I never went to Concord when it was an Oval. First time I started going there, they just changed it, so I didn't know really any of the names. I barely knew Freddie Query. So bridge that little short period of time between driving those races at Concord at that short track down the road to getting into the Xfinity series, what was the Bush series? Yeah.

Well, I ran some of, you know, the Concord 88, 87th Carraway, 88, 89 Concord, week in a week out. You know, now I know the Pettys, obviously, you've known them for years. It wouldn't be a Cup Hall of Fame career conversation at this table if the Pettys weren't involved in it. That's right. They are linked into every single career of anybody in this sport. I know it.

They are. They are. And this one here was actually with Maurice. Okay. So Maurice Petty, he was hooked up with a guy called named Bill Shackleford out of Kinston and had a company called Winter Circle Auto Parts. Yeah. You remember that?

Yeah. So this guy, Mr. Shackleford, he's passed away now, but back in the day, he helped Maurice out, Maurice's boys out, Maurice would, you know, I don't know how you'd compare the program, but, you know, Linden Maurice's name. And, you know, they have remunufactured parts, pieces, you know, starters. and stuff for cars, so you can go there and pick up stuff for your car, street car. So anyway, so Winter Circle Artifarts started to be my sponsor.

Yes. And so because I had a red Camaro at Carraway, then it became a black Camaro at Carraway with Winter Circle Auto Parts. So he helped sponsor me at Concord. And also then we started to go to Bush Grand National Racing. He helped me get to the races. We bought a car. Who's we?

You and your daddy? Yeah. You and your daddy bought a Bush car. Used? I think we went to Hutch. Hutch and Pagan? I think we got a Hutch car first. Yeah.

I think that's our first deal. We built it. We didn't. Yeah. You're Robert G. Oh. Robert G. Put the bodies on for me.

Yep. G. G. Junior or senior? Bodies by G. Senior. Yeah. Woo.

Yeah. I had a, that car I had at Daytona was a Bodies by G. Hell yes. Bodies by G. So the car we had before that was the Buick LaSabor. Uh-huh. And so I ran probably, I don't know, six races, five or six races in 88, and then another six or seven in 89. Okay.

With the Buick? With the Buick. So that was that gap that I started, right? Did you, the Buick is the, y'all got the chassis and built a car yourself? You hung the body, you and your daddy? Yeah, I think we might have had some help on that. Yeah, I don't think we could do all that ourselves, but we started that. You're still running that out of your little shop?

Yes. We move over to a different shop when I, in that year, the Daytona year we're talking about, or we're going to get to. Yeah. So we're doing this with this winter circle. So I'm racing Concord a little bit and then race a couple cup, bush races and Concord still and bush races. So I'm getting to race a lot.

Yeah. And, you know, became, I think in 89, I was like, that was my self-employment. I filed for self-independent contractor. I think it was my filing, you know, for taxes. Yeah. Did you leave headshot? After 87, so 88. Yeah, so 88 I was independent contract.

Really? Yeah. So I was actually making money off the winnings to, because I still living at home. Okay. All I need was toothpaste and deodorant, you know, so I really didn't eat a whole lot to live on. But so that bridge that gap to do that. But what happened when we got towards the end of 88, I think Hugo came through. and so the guy that owned Winter Circle Auto Parts had insurance.

That's where he made his money through insurance. Okay. And, you know, Morgan Shepherd's sponsored by him too for a while. All right. Answers a question because I would see your late model, and I know Morgan's Bush car had the exact same paint scheme. Yeah. And I didn't know why.

Now I know why. I've wondered that for years. The stupid little things that I worry about. Yeah. I'm with you. So he sponsored both of us. when Hugo come through, I mean, it devastated the coastal. Yeah, the hurricane, Hurricane Hugo.

Yeah. So it devastates. So insurance, I mean, I'm not sure all that work. But anyway, obviously when the insurance, people had to collect for insurance, right, well, that was a scam. Because what was happening was I was finally getting to the racetrack, the Carrie Parnell, Huggins tires. I get there and, like, you know, mount my four sets of tires, three sets of tires for the weekend.

They'd be like, you ought to pay your bill last week. I'm like, well, you mean, we didn't pay our bill. Yeah, I didn't pay the bill. bill. We get our motor from, we got them from somebody and somehow the building get paid and what he was paying the bill. Mr. Shacklever was paying the bill. So to put all this in a quick basket is the Hugo, the insurance and the scam and all that stuff, it was like, uh-oh, you know, we weren't, bills weren't getting paid. Yeah. Because he was, you know, we just sent him the bill and he'd pay the tire bill. He'd pay this and we'd do this and he'd do that. I mean, you're sponsorship

dollars, right? So anyway, we, you know, weird story, but we had to go to Facebook bill. federal court and testify against him. Whoa! Because he was embezzling money. Now I got it. Back in the embezzlement days, it was like $16 million he embezzled. And that was big money then, of course. Sure.

Nowadays it's pennies. So I remember sitting there in court, Morgan and myself and Maurice, and I mean, I don't know what this is going to look like because I've never been to court before. Yeah. And so in there, and he was up there. And, you know, so the judge is like, all right, did you take any money, you know, from him? personally, this and that. It's like, nope, nope.

And the whole time he was just smiling. I think he was just happy he was able to help us, you know. And anyway, he went to prison. So, but that was kind of a weird, weird time. That was kind of weird. Did you feel bad for him? Oh, yeah, yeah. Because he was just, he's a bad guy, but a nice guy.

He helped you. He helped us, you know. So weird. Sometimes you need help from bad guys. It was like, darn, man. So we, that got us, you know, we had to go get a sponsor. So anyway, we were working on that anyway. Which is what the sponsor you get, I'm assuming the one you're getting ready to mention, is one of the greatest.

Absolutely. Of all time. Yeah. Have you had the pickles pick feet? Oh, my God. No, of course not. But the hot. I didn't either.

I like just the sauce, the, the, the, slim chimps. No. Oh, the pen rose. Yeah. I was a huge fan. Yeah. What was it? Penrose hot sausages.

Yeah. Oh, okay. He's a big fan of the product. Whatever. Yeah, right. Before your time. I guess so. Yes.

All right. I never know if he's a fan of the product or the paint scheme. No. There's two big differences. It was a good paint scheme. It was very simple and clean. But the product, I mean, that's racetrack food. Yeah.

I hear you. That's like, you know, something you eat right before you, go over there and, you know, check the toe. Or change your gear. Yeah. Right. I'm hungry. How do you guys get sponsors throughout the 80s? And you say, yeah, we go get a sponsor.

You make it sound so. simple. Well, I mean, it nothing, it wasn't simple back then either. I mean, this is a crazy story. We go to Goodmark Foods in Raleigh, North Carolina, and this guy, Ron Gaines and I, we go up there, drive up there. Who's Ron Gaines? Why is he with you?

He's helping Terry on some business guy. Yeah, business stuff. Yep, got you. Fan club, start off fan club, and went to that, went to that. Anyway, he just passed away yesterday. But anyway, he'd been sick. This is 1989.

So we go up there and now I moved to Cliff Stewart's shop, old race shopper, Rusty ran out of. Yeah. Bodine ran out of. Yeah. You just moved in to rent it. He just let us use it. Okay. Yep.

So Cliff. Well, that's very nice. He just said here. Just use our place because we got more room. So we went from our 30 by 40 to 10,000 square. You know, crazy. So we get this, we go up there and we just, I don't know how we just talked them into it, but we just talked them into it.

Did you sit down in the room? Yeah. You in the middle of that conversation? Yeah, yeah. And you're like, do you like, you know, here's our proposal, paper? Yeah, you know. You help. No PowerPoint.

It was basically just a. Yeah. Sheets of paper. Right. You know, here's your rundowns. Here's your, here's where you started. Here's where you finished. There was no analytics.

Right. There's no percentage of top five, top tens of. Are you, like, this is where your decal goes? Here's a, you know, we got a truck. We got uniforms. Kind of. The race car. This is a placement.

I think we did all that. This is the dollar sign. for all of that? Are you like lumping your throat when you tell them that part? Pretty much so. Pretty much so. But the cool thing was we left there with $50,000 check. Oh!

Without even a contract. Really? That was like the best. I'm like, I'm not sure how we did that. Maybe that's like a secret power you have. I think the secret power was they were going to do it anyway. I had nothing to do with the secret power thing. So anyway, so yeah, so we got back.

I remember taking a picture of that check. going, I guess we better go now, right? So now we've got to buy cars. All right. Did you know how much you needed? We got $300,000. How much did you need? Like, did you have a number in your head?

We're going to spend it all. I know, but like... What's it take to race? What's it take, yeah. Yeah, I don't, I mean, how do you know? I don't know. We just said 300 seemed like the right number. I mean, sure, we run numbers in our heads, but, I mean, we didn't have Excel spreadsheets

or anything, which is kind of like, well, it costs this much, we cost this much. Yeah. Well, how many people can we have? Well, we can only have four. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So you ended up getting a $300,000 sponsorship from Penrose for 1990. Yeah, 90. We had it for several years. For one year. Yeah, that was the first year. Yeah. Nice. Yeah.

Okay. So we had to buy cars. So, wait a minute. Are you feeling like this, like you're, you know, a couple years ago, you're peddling. Yeah. Working full time in a race shop for your brother and a full time right now. You're kind of, you're all in just a few years, you're walking into a,

a business, you know, getting a $300,000 deal, I guess it's probably not registering in your brain, like what you're doing? No, we're just trying to race. You're just like, whew. Yeah. You didn't beat your chest at all. I mean, and you're not really looking past too far ahead. Good point.

You're just really looking at the moment. Okay. Well, you're an independent contractor at this point, right? Yeah. So you're probably feeling the weight of that more than, rather than being able to enjoy it, like, oh, we just, I mean, like, there's a difference when you're working for somebody and then when you're sort of response yes exactly yeah i mean you know but i i don't know that i ever looked at it that way i mean i'll take that back i did but again you just like i mean you just sometimes you when i work for hagen

sometimes the checks didn't always cash on time yeah i kind of got used to that i mean sometimes it wouldn't so a lot times it would so when you wrote the check to the employees i mean you want to make sure they all cash but i mean they all you know cleared the bank but you also had your, you had a three ring checkbook that you would write checks to and you kind of keep track of where you were at and make sure you weren't in the, in the red, and you just kind of like, you know, you knew what you could afford and maybe what you couldn't afford. We didn't have enough where we couldn't afford everything, but we could afford what we needed

to have. To be competitive, yeah. It just, okay, now we got what we got. So what are you doing with your cars? You re-skinned them? Well, I bought two Wayne Day cars from David Green. Okay. So David Green worked for Wayne Day at the time.

So I called him. I said, need two cars fast. We got four cars. So we need four cars. Or we think we need four cars, right? So I got two short track cars from him. And I think that's when I went to Hutch and got two cars from him as well. Or it might have been Loughlin.

You know, I don't remember now if it was Loughlin or not. We got a Loflin car later, drops now. Yep. I mean, because I had to have it. I can remember if that was in 91 or, you know, after we got beat by Chuck Bound. that inch and a half drops down car. And it was like, when you're behind him, you're like killing me in the center. And I'm like, what is it?

Got to have it. You know, got to have it. So I can't remember if I had, we had four cars and two Wayne Days and two something else. About how much of these cars cost? You know, chassis is probably around anywhere from 4,500 to 7500, probably. Yeah. Bear Chatsy. And we had, you know, of course, Robert put the bodies on those two cars probably for me for a while,

speedway cars. And Charlotte, you know, Super Speedway and Speedway cars. and then David put the short track bodies on, which were bad at the bone. Oh, yeah. Well, we didn't have a quarter pounder rule. So they were 36 inches without a spoiler. So anyway, when you had to go through the tech, it was a little difficult. That'd lean on a lot.

So, yeah, so we, you know, that's what we had and what we started with. And, you know, kind of, that started the year 1990 to start off in Daytona and run for a championship. All right, so you go to Daytona and you run second. Yeah. Did you finish? No. No. I ended up.

Second all day. Where'd you know? I buggered up on pit stop with that open gear, spun the tires, leaving pits and lost a draft. So I think I finished six maybe. Oh, okay. So. But you ran good all day. Rang good all day.

Yeah. Missed that wreck. Missed the, yeah. You're ahead of the crash, I think. Yeah. And big crash, Mike, you guys see that one. But this is where you first remember him. Yeah.

Yeah. So when you, when you, maybe not immediately after the race, but a couple weeks later, did you, you, did you realize kind of that, like, I mean, did you realize what maybe that moment had done for you? Because, I mean, they talked about you the whole race. Yeah. Right. And I'm sure I'm no different than a ton of people or a lot of other people had the same serious idea as far as like, hey, this is Bobby Lobney. Terry's brother, he's going to, you know, like you just popped on everybody's radar, you know, for a lot of people.

Yeah. Did that, did you recognize that? Well, I didn't recognize it on the way home because I drove the truck home. So it didn't hit me right away. I probably had to wait until about Tuesday when I woke up. But I don't know. I really didn't. I don't know.

Again, I mean, in the moment, you're just thinking about it. You know, you're just thinking about what's happening right now. And, you know, I mean, I know I was very fortunate to be riding my brother's coattails. And, you know, I felt that's great. But I don't know how long it's going to last. Yeah. And I think there's a double-edged sword there because you can ride it, but there's also a lot of pressure on you to maintain that, of course, you know.

So, but I felt like I was on my own enough to where, you know, and, you know, obviously, you know, that year was huge, you know, because 87, 88 ran some races and crashed or might not run good. And then run kind of like, okay, kind of got a little, little head of steam going. So then in 90, when we started off like that and, you know, we're able to go and run some, you know, Daytona was like, you know, first time there. Right. Never been there before. And I'll never forget practice going out there to draft.

for my brother because that was he was in a cup he might have had it I mean I think it was like you can practice with anybody back in that day and just go practice and I think I remember going out with him practicing in his cup car just following him in my and I think he was half throttle you know or something like that and you know just to learn the draft so when you go down there and you run good and you you know I remember going out I was leading the race and I remember just going out straight away just like yes this is awesome yeah can't believe it yeah you know and then you finish whatever and you go home and You know, I mean, it definitely, that was a, you know, you felt like you're on your own, I think, more than anything else. I felt like I was like, okay, I'm establishing my footprint now more so than just being Terry's little brother footprint.

Yep. Is that, so you talked about riding his coat tails and having that feeling. So when was the moment, I think, in your career when you felt like you weren't like you were, you were you, you were doing this on all yourself? Well, I mean, I think, you know. Did you have that? You know, it took a while. And I would say even, you know, when Bill Davis and, I mean, I think when I finally got the Gibbs ride, that was like, okay. You know, you're at the same, you're at, you're off the, you're off the tail and you're kind of got your own coat.

Yes. To kind of put it in some silly way. But, I mean, even, you know, when I was driving for Bill, I was still, you know, I mean, you're a rookie. Yep. And you're, you're still learning and you're still crashing and you're still being dumb and you're doing stupid things or whatever it might be until you start running good. then in that level, then I think the Gibbs days was probably, you know, I was okay, you know, I probably surpassed that point of like, okay, you know, if I had to imagine other people going, okay, well, he's made it.

You know, instead of, oh, he's just Terry's brother, he just, you know, he'll be there. Right. That would have been about 1994, Gibbs? Five. Well, yeah, four, five. Yeah, five was the first year. Yeah, because Dale J. Left Gibbs.

In 95. And you took his, right. And so you had raised it, Bill Davis. turned 93 and 94. 93-94. How did the Gibbs ride come about? How did that all work out? Did you have to go beg, borrow, and steal to get that one, too?

Well, that had a lot of conversations with Dale Jarrett, because he was leaving. He was leaving. And so back in the day, you would sit back and you would, in the motorhome lot, you'd, you know, everybody would talk. Yeah. And so I'm sure it's same nowadays. I'm not sure, but anyway, you talk in person, you know, more so anything else. And he was trying to get out of his deal to go drive for Yates, and he wasn't sure he can get out and souvenir sales and this and that. And so I'll be honest with you, there was about a month.

It was like, you know, I don't know if I can. And of course, I'm sitting here, you know, I've already got a deal and signed a five-year deal with Bill, two years into it, but sponsors leaving. Not sure what's going to happen with sponsor. I'm not sure we're going to have a ride. and so pretty much a month or so of really not sure and it worked out where he could he had back in the day I think you had so many X amount of souvenirs left over it's like you know we're not going to eat them you got to pay for him so I think he had to pay something and then Joe paid Bill we didn't have much souvenir so when Joe Gibbs I think that's how it worked Joe Gibbs and Bill worked out something right yes to help to get to get

you into that 18. And I'd say probably Robert paid off something to Joe to get him out of that. Interesting. And I remember I was in Ohio at high tech looking at a new trailer at Bruce's place. And Robert calls me, hey, if I can't get Dale, drive this car, do you want to drive it? Oh! What? Yeah. I mean, if he couldn't, you know, get that to happen. And I'll be honest with you, I'm like, I'm pulling for Dale in back of my mind because I thought, you know, that's going to be a higher pressure. Not that the 18's not going to be, but that's going to be the next level of pressure from a rookie to that. At that time, I'm like, hmm. It might be over. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure. So he was like, can you work out of MacTool is going to be a deal breaker or not? Oh, I'm good

with that. Something else. I'm like, no, I'm good with that. I was like, Dale, you got to get that deal. So anyway, so that was kind of that part about it. But one of the big things was Dale Sr. Because we were at Rockingham, I think it was Rockingham, in the fall, and we were standing there talking, and Joe walked up, or Joe, I don't know where it was. Somewhere, somewhere.

How Joe was there, Motorham Lot, I don't know. I think it was motorhome lot. So anyway, Joe walked up and said, I was talking to your dad, and your dad told Joe, he says, you need to get him to drive his car. You should get him to drive your car. Because, I mean, we all knew what was going on, and your dad knew more than anybody,

He knew what was happening with Dale, Jared, you know, and he knew all the deals that were making and, you know, playing around. So he told, he made a comment to Joe to hire me. So I'm not saying that was all of it, but I mean, I was, I was like, that's cool, you know. Yeah. And you got, you got the man telling Joe don't do it. You need to hire this guy. He didn't grab him by the fire suit. But, you know, like he didn't put him in a handlocker, like he did most people.

Were you all close? I mean, like, you certainly had a relationship with Dale that he was going to now be an advocate for you to Joe Gibbs. I mean, like, when did you and Dale Earnhardt become tight enough for him to say that? I don't know. I mean, probably wouldn't carry away that first race. No. No. I mean, I think it started, I remember Dad talking positively about racing you in Daytona in 1990.

Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because they ran a majority of the race together. You know, like I said, there was this big crash, like second or third or fourth lap, and him and dad ran first and second for the rest of the race. Top five for sure. Yeah, all day.

And I think I remember dad saying publicly and in media about how impressed he was, and I think that that just kind of, you know, you start off on that foot and just build on that respect level. You're out there racing with those guys every week at that point in the Cup Series. Yeah. So it went from, you know, went from there. I mean, there was a point in time that that was, you know, happening, you know, through the Bush Grand National Series and raced with him at different, not just Daytona, but race for 90, 91, 92 against him when, you know, racing with him at different tracks and all that stuff with, I remember Loudoun. I mean, I remember so many races that Dale would run on Saturday and, you know, we'd race against him, you know, so you have that, you know, that time you earn respect or you race with him and you get to know.

He sees something in you as you're driving through the corner. I mean, something simple as that. Yeah. Because I think, like, a good example of that, one of the best, I think, is Jeff Gordon and Jimmy Johnson. Jeff didn't, Jeff's not a, Jeff's not going to watch a race and go, that guy's talented. You know, he doesn't have, he's not doing that. But he was on the track with Jimmy in a Bush race, I think, when Jeff was driving that Pepsi

24 car and he saw Jimmy do something, and he went, he's got, he's got it. You know, he's got it. And I think when you're out on the track, you see that. and maybe dad's was seeing that in Bobby. So I think when you won the race at Atlanta, your brother wins a championship, y'all both riding together around the racetrack. We haven't talked much about the relationship between you and your brother, and we'll get to that one day.

But what did that feel like? Like what, try to put that in a basket? Yeah. Well, I mean, that was, I mean, in so many different ways, that was huge. I mean, you know, I think of, you know, I think of, you know, I think of, you know, simple things is like, we're trying to win our first race a year. We haven't won't yet. You know, it's like, oh, we've got to win.

We want to win. Terry's trying to win the championship. So we always keep an eyeball on Terry no matter what. And so, I mean, as that morning unfolded and as a race unfolded, and, I mean, when you just go through that day. And what that meant for, you know, for me, you know, was winning a race, but was more importantly, I think of what was afterwards. and that was in Victor Lane with my parents, our parents, and there was a picture of two race car drivers that have the same last name, that won on the same day,

and our parents are standing right there with us, you know, obviously. And it's like, okay, if you could sit there and freeze this moment and just really think about it, how can this ever happen again or probably never happen again? Right. And it might not ever happen for anybody like that. again. Right.

Bush brothers, you know, I mean, would be the, sure, and there'd be more, but, but that's kind, you know, what the chances of that and the odds of that, you know, so it's like, you just kind of like, did that really happen? I mean, did all those chips fall the right way that day to make, make everything happen like that? That day, I mean, think about the 15 years before it, every little chip, every single day, right? It puts you into that path. And that goes back to, you know, a little bit about being a hard.

Your dad. Yeah, being hard on us. Yeah. And so you appreciate that, obviously, and my mom's got more bleacher seat time than, you know, most moms. She was there yesterday sitting in the bleacher. Oh, yeah. So anyway, so, yeah, so, you know, that's that moment right there was like, oh, man, that, how the world did that just happen, you know? And, I mean, it was just so legit, so real.

So, I mean, I think from the five team to the 18 team, just, you know, for all of us. this is the camaraderie of both teams competing against each other. But what a moment that's like it's a free for all for everybody's all in one all of a sudden. Yeah. When you watch replays of the Daytona 500 from 1998 and the one that Daddard won, you were probably his toughest competitor and came really close at the end of that race. What do you think about when you see that replay? Because we see it a lot.

Yeah. I get reminded that I lost a lot. That seemed like I've lost, I've only lost once, but it seemed like it reminded I lost a lot. I can appreciate that. Yeah. It's like when you show the ones, I win. So I get that exactly. Go ahead. Well, I mean, I can tell you right now that, you know, I thought for sure that I had the car to beat him that day.

Yes. Yeah, fast one. We had one more lap. And when that caution came out, and I thought, you know, I was kind of got jacked up there with Jeremy and I lost Spencer. but I thought if I could have, you know, if we could have completed that other lap, I don't know what would have happened. Sure. But it's like, man, I won't ever know. And I thought I was so close and I've never, had never won the Daytona 500, never did win the Daytona 500, and never will win the Daytona 500.

That was like the best chance, you know, and you never would have known what would have happened. Man, so it's interesting. But, but I will say when it was all said and done, you know, I'm the typical fired up dude that's, you know, mad when you don't win. But I was not as mad as maybe I normally would have been, you know, because it was like, dang it. I hate finish the second. I hate losing, right? I hate losing.

But that moment there is like, okay, all right. If I'm going to lose. Because I think I got another shot at winning the Daytona 500. In that moment. And I still got this, you know. And I was like, okay, all right, all right, I'll give in. This was okay. You know, it's like, okay, I'll give in to this one.

I, um, it's interesting because we watch, we see those clips, you know, that take that one, for example, and everybody's, you know, that clip is being shared on social media or whatever in a race preview or whatever and celebrating that moment, but you don't know what everybody else's emotions are about that moment like him running the second in that race. We just, they started showing the Atlanta replays and stuff of Harvard beating Jeff Gordon in 2001. And every time I see that, which they play it about every, time we go to Atlanta, I think, man, I had a flat tire because Tony Stewart

blowed out a brake rotor or something through a bunch of stuff on the track. And I got, I'm right in the middle of that battle with like 10 to go thinking, I'm in a great position. My car's really working. And I cut a tire down. So every time I see that, I don't go, man, what a great day. What an awesome day for Harvick and RCR. I go, ah, you know, I think about man.

What if? Yeah. But so 2001 Pocono, I got to race you. Yep. I learned something that day. I don't know what you thought about it, but I'm to refresh everybody's memory. I think I've got a pretty comfortable lead, and you run me down, and it was just me and you, and I was doing everything I could, blocking, going crazy. You had a way faster car.

And you were trying to get in my inside over and over and over, and I kept blocking you and cutting you off. and we come down the short stretch into the tunnel turn and you went to the high side. And I thought, oh man, I don't know how this is going to work out. And I thought I went to that corner deep. And I thought I'd carried it down in there far enough to maybe give you like a pause, you know, like, oh, I'm going to have to give this corner up. But he drove it down in there like way deeper than me,

completely missed the corner, but still beat me on exit. I don't know how in the hell he did it. I guess it's just going around that race. track more times than I had and you know what was possible for that corner but man and I was trying to think you know that was a great experience for me and I learned a lot and got you know getting beat by you one of the best in a sport at that time you know you don't like to lose but it was fun to be racing one of the good one of the one of the big guys in the sport and I was trying to think if we had any other good battles it's kind of funny because I couldn't really think of any I'm sure there are some

but I couldn't really think of any. You know, we'll race for 15, 20 years. Nothing like that one. Nothing like that. I mean, I'm sure we had our battles, you know, but not for a finish like that. Right. Yeah, I don't know if we had any other, I know we didn't have any other for the wins. Yeah.

But I know we had some battles throughout something. You know what I mean? We never had any problems, though. Nope. Not that I remember. No, I don't, I'll have to say that that was, I don't remember anything like that. Because you know as well as I do when you're a driver, you remember everything that. everything that somebody, when somebody hit you, you'll remember who that was to the day.

You'll never forget it. But you're racing somebody clean. I don't know how many times, you know, Mark Martin, you're racing and, you know, you race, race, race, race. And I can't remember how many times I just never had a problem with him. Never. And you're the same way. You know, we just never.

And that day there, I mean, it was like, you know, if you didn't want it out of finish second, that was a great race. Yeah. That would have been a great race, right? But, you know, because I remember that video, you, you know, you had your back, your rear camera. Yes. You're moving back and forward with a cross-

try and figure it out. And, you know, so, yeah, those are great battles, but I don't know. I'm sure we had another one somewhere, but, I mean, you know, not to that extent. Well, I was sitting there and, like I said, man, I couldn't believe how deep you drove into the tunnel turn. And I don't even know if you remember much about that. Oh, I do. I do.

You buried it. Yep. That was my, that was my shot. Yeah. You know that. I mean, it was, I think we had, I was coming for the white. Yes. Yeah.

So, and I, you know, and I was always, I never led a lot laps, but always got to to the end, hopefully to lead that lap or lead laps. And I remember it vividly because it's like, all right, you know, come and come and come and get to you, lose the nose a little bit, dive inside, not going to happen, not going to happen. And, you know, I don't know why. The only reason why I was the outside, because you gave it to me. Yeah.

I'm like, well, either going to stick or ankle stick. Yeah. So, but luckily I just drove her off in there and it stuck. I probably learned a little bit like, oh, you can go that far. So you don't, you've never drove in it that deep. into that turn ever before before that? Because, like, how confident were you that was going to work? Well, I'm sure I did, but I didn't make it either.

You know, I didn't work. Right, and it worked that time. I was like, holy moly! And then he'd come off the corner and he's like five carlings in front of me kind of easing away. I'm like, damn, that was it. That's it. That was it.

It's over now. Yeah, that's always the good feeling on my end and the bad on your end. I've been on that end, too. Yeah. A lot of... Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead. A lot of people were asking that I ask you about that because that's a lot of people's fond memories about me and anything me and you ever did on the racetrack together. I just can't believe.

I guess y'all just race too clean to not have a single incident. I mean, like, I can't remember one either. I would say that me and Bobby are, I would say, were kind of similar in how we race on the track and kind of how we handled ourselves off the track. And I say, I mentioned that driver's intro stage because that was always a unique. dynamic where all the drivers were forced to be in one place at one time and it was fun and fun to watch how they interacted whether they were able to be social or it was it was impossible for them to be social right and if you went up to speak to one what kind of conversation you would get or what kind of what you might not get you know you learned a lot about your competitors

in those moments yeah you'd bring up a question to somebody or hey how's it going and and sometimes you wouldn't get nothing out of somebody. Okay, move on to the next person, you know. And then you had your click. Yes, you know, you'd always talk to, you know. Who was your click? Who did you like to talk to? That was probably DJ.

Yes. You know, Mark, Terry, obviously. How did that go with you and Terry? Because, you know, like, you know, Kurt and Kyle, they don't really kind of mesh well at times on the racetrack. I mean, they seem to be working it out. but over the last couple years, but even Ward and Jeff talk about being competitive. Yeah. How did you and your brother deal with that?

I mean, y'all seem to have handled it quite well, but did y'all ever have any kind of tough situations y'all had to talk about, talk it through? Well, I think Terry, if there was anything that I did wrong, he didn't really, he didn't probably beat me up on it. Yeah. I mean, he probably didn't tell me. One time at Talladega, I think I waded up, you know, one of them crashed kind of. running in the back of somebody and he was in it. And I remember him saying, like, you know, one of those things, I probably should have missed that type of thing.

I think that was probably the only thing that he's ever really said to me. But, you know, like I said, there might be things he probably thought about, but he maybe just didn't say it. But that also could be from our dad, you know. I mean, I don't know. But no, he never really did, you know, and he always helped me out. So, I mean, it was never erased it. I mean, I'm like running.

I didn't go worse. You know, look for Terry's number and where's he had and this and that. So we always made fun of where are the brothers that got along. Yeah. I mean, it's unique. Yeah, it is. And I don't know that some of that was the age. The age gap.

And then also, again, our parents. Yeah. We're going to let that happen. Yeah. You know what I mean? So we pretty much just didn't have that built in us, I mean, from the get-go. You mentioned Taldega. I think that's where I got you.

Got my revenge for Pocono. I remember passing you in that little short shoot. Yep, coming in the term one. Yeah. You put me on the apron. Did I? Yeah. That's when your dad won.

No, when I won, one of the last passes was passing him at the flagstand. Oh. You went one way, you went that way, and I went that way. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that. You know what he's talking about, though. This verse comes up all the time and he hates talking about it. I put you on the apron.

I was on the apron. I think I was below that. Jesus. You did. You messed his whole day. I had to lift and you had to lift. Yeah. Yeah, and we both got rid.

Was it Skinner? Yeah. Somewhere up in there. I don't know if you heard about this, but it's important that I tell this now because I need you to know, yes. Daddy hated Skinner, right? They didn't like, Dad didn't like having a teammate, didn't like Mike, whatever that was. I don't know. We'll never know.

But I'm pushing Mike. You're behind me, I think, and we're just logging laps. And I'm thinking more and more as we get closer, like, how am I going to get around this guy? You could pass below the yellow line. There was no rule then. and I believe. And so I'm thinking, what am I going to do? What I'm going to do?

What I'm going to do? Get closer to the end. And I see that outside of the line's not there. Nobody's out there. And then finally, there's dad. You know, and he's eight rows back, seven rows back, six rows back. And I'm like, okay, now what do I do? If I jump in front of him and we go to the back, he's going to chew my ass all, you know,

I'm never going to hear the end of it. What'd you do that for? Or he's going to put me in the middle and I'm going to the back anyways, whatever, right? So I'm thinking, okay, I can't jump in front of him. And he's coming and, man, I can't push Mike to. Right. That's a bad spot to be in. Literally.

You were the only friend he had out there. Literally, I'm not doing what I'm, I'm not doing everything I can to push Mike. Yeah. And I'm like lifting more and more and I'm like, well, I can't shove Mike back into the lead. I've had opportunities. You were pushing me, the whole pack's pushing us. And I could have just shoved Mike, and that would have been a whole entirely different race. But I was sitting there going, and finally, coming through the tri-oval, I was like, I'm just going, I got to run, and I went to the apron, and I'm down there, and I'm looking at Mike, and he ain't giving me the room to enter one.

And I'm like, so I should have just, bam, door slammed him and seen what happened, but I'm kind of glad I didn't. Yeah. But I had to lift, and I ended up 14th. Yeah, I think I was 18th. I was in such a screwed up space right then in that moment. But the only thing, see, so the good would happen out of that race, because that was in 2000. That's another one of them where when we see that replay, everybody's like, oh, Dale's last win, awesome moment. Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, you have no idea. But the beauty of that race, it's all said and done, you know, obviously I was in my trailer. you know, dang it, dang it, dang it. Trying to relive it, right? But I do have that hat signed by your dad in Victory Lane. What? Yeah, because that was a Winston noble. It was a no bull race.

You won the noble guys? Probably. Oh, that cost me a million. Oh, that does suck. That whole story now really just. Yeah. Bramps away. You're sorry.

You costing a million dollars. Yeah. I should be apologizing to you. So anyway, but I got a hat signed by your dad from that Victor Lane. Did you go to Victory Lane? I didn't go, but I got it. But you got it somehow? Chris Williams got it for me. Cool. Yeah, so anyway, that's, so I got a, even though it happened, I mean, you still got, I got something good out of that. But wait a second. Do you recall your thought process? I mean, you're here, we're talking about it. When Dale went to the apron, I mean,

like, give us your, your lap from your vantage point on what you were thinking. I know, it's going to be tough for you. I can't even remember. I just can look at the video and go, oh, yeah. But he remembers being mad about it. Yeah, I mean, I knew that, I mean, I'm racing for championship points, the whole thing. And I thought that was the line to be in. I knew that they were coming on the outside, but I couldn't get there, it seemed like. And I just remember thinking that we're in the right place, the right time. You know, when I got, I thought, you know, because that was, what, two to go, three to go?

And we were just getting to the end of it as we log laps until you get there and you kind of get your chest game figured out and who you're with, who you're whatever. But when you got put on the flat, I was there. And I just knew when I lifted that, I mean, it's like just took all the wind out of my car, you know, all the sail out of it. So I couldn't rebound from anything at that point. And then I was trapped on the bottom. I couldn't go anywhere. But just, I mean, if you're asking, you know, that's kind of what I remember the most about it, just thinking that we were okay.

Yeah. But then that train on the outside was coming faster and we could stop it. They were coming faster because I'm sitting there running three-quarter throttle trying to figure out how to get out from behind Mike. Right, right. You'd just smack me on the back of the head if you'd have known all that in the moment. Yeah. Well, 20 years later, it's good enough. All right, a couple things for we turn you loose.

I can't let you go without talking to you about sim racing. So sim racing is like one of my number one passions. Love it to death. Been involved with it as long as I can remember. And you are also a big time sim racer and we're involved in it way before I even got involved in it. Like what is it about sim racing? What is it about that that you enjoy? Because we still sim race together every once in a while.

Yep. And I just, I find that cool, you know, because it's something I love. Yeah, I mean, and, you know, I mean, Dale, I'll be honest with you, I mean, video games, you know, I mean, they weren't, you know, Atari, you know, you know what it's about, you know, but I mean, I just remember doing things like that when I was a kid. And then I think, you know, so when you get into the sim thing, I know, you remember Terry Satchel? He was an engineer before engineers type of thing, I think, and he worked for Andy Petrie. But for some reason or another, there was an Indianapolis 500 game. By the Piris. Yep.

We would play that thing on the laptop during lunch or whatever. And I mean, you'd run wide open with this finger. And you'd turn left. More, less, more, less, right? So we would do that all the time on a laptop back and, you know, had to be early 90s. Yeah. You know, stuff like that. Is that right?

Yeah. That's probably sound about right. That is. Yeah. So it was probably, it had to be 90, 90, 19, 1, 2, 3, maybe. So Tom Dozenberry was the CEO of Hasbro. So we flew up there, I remember my baron, to Boston, where they were headquartered. So went through the plant, went through all that.

Went back with them and met David Kamer. He was working at Hasbro? I think that was a Hasbro corporate, or, you know, maybe it was separate division at that time or something, but it was papyrus. Papyrus. Was part of Hasbro, I thought, I think. Something like that. So anyway, so. So Dave Kamers is the.

He is the guru, and he's also one of the owners at eye racing today. Yes. Yeah. Head developer in all the old Papyrus NASCAR racing games. Yeah. So I remember going and meeting David Kamer at Papyrus, and he had this get up on the floor. I'm like, what in the world is that?

And he sits in the floor with the seat and pedals and, you know, kind of like what you see today. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, what in the world? And he had that lotus, no. I think that was that, that 79 lotus or? something like so hard to drive. Yes.

That's what he was big on even back then, right? So anyway, met him. We did the video. We did the papyrus racing game. And I think I might have sent you a picture of it or linked to it. But there was a, we did the tutorial, the setup stuff, right? And we did it in our race shop and turn the lights off, lunchtime, put some spotlights on, shot with a camera, about as big as all these put together, you know.

and, you know, I'll talk about, you know, hey, this is how you set up your papyrus racing game and, you know, run these springs and drive the line. And when you enter Richmond, you turn in right here and you exit off the corner like that. Yeah. And so that had to be, you know, in those early 90s. And so I was hooked, you know.

Ever since. Ever since. And I've been on the eye racing, you know, I don't know what number I was or which one I was. But, I mean, and I've had, I don't know how many rigs, you know. And anyway, so that's, it always comes. it goes, you know, you got more time, then you got less time. You get more time, you get less time.

Yes. And so, yeah, so our racing is, you know, I mean, it's, so I'm old, but I still do it. Yeah. And I mean, because it's like. Just like me. I'm old and I still do it. You're not as old as me. But I appreciate you really, I appreciate that.

So, but, you know, I mean, but it's, it's, it is, I mean, I enjoy it. I mean, you know, I know, I know some people probably go, you know, why would you do that? But, I mean, to me, I just enjoy doing it. I mean, I mean, you know, does it help me? I don't know. Does it, do I have fun doing it? Absolutely. Do you meet people?

I had a guy yesterday, kid yesterday, come up and says, hey, I raced with you on eye racing. I said, did you wreck me? He said, well, I might have. I said, all right. And this kid was, he was handicapped. I say, you know, he was a handicap, a little handicapped. And he was, but he was so nice. And he said, hey, man, I race you, I racing, and I thought, you know.

And you think about that. Oh, yeah. That kid, you know, he's not going to race with me at Carraway or whatever. But on that platform, it brings out so many people that I've met. Greg Stump, paint my helmet. Okay. I didn't know. I don't know.

You painted helmets. Oh, Discord. Hey, can you paint my helmet? Yeah. So I saw him a couple days ago. I got my helmet painted. Nice. So, I mean, that's on one perspective.

But, I mean, also, you get to really see. And when you go out and you see people and you meet people that say they did race with you. And you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, you know. and send me a message and whatever, you know, then you're making friends. Yeah, it's a great community. Very awesome. So I love it for many reasons, and that's one of them. But it's, so yeah, I was in it for a long time, and I'm still in it.

I'm heavy duty. Not as heavy duty as you, but I'm in it. All right, SRX series. What's that about? What do you expect out of that? Well, I mean, it's an IROC thing, but not quite, I'm sure. I mean, it can't be like I rock because that was here and done, and you can't do that again. but similar in a lot of ways, and they've got some, you know, I think they've got a lot of great drivers,

and it's going to be a lot of fun. And, you know, being that we're all, we're not going to Daytona to race, so it's all short tracks. Yes. So it would be a little bit different in that aspect of, you know, we're not going to be going 180 miles an hour at Daytona with, you know, with that part of it. But saying all that, I think that what Tony and Ray have come up with is, you know, a good filler for maybe some either a hungry race fans that start. something maybe a little bit different that they can relate to.

And hopefully new fans that will see something different than maybe what they're, you know, what they haven't seen before. So a lot of different aspects. So I'm expecting, I mean... Did you talk to Kenny Strader after he tested? No, but I sent Ray a picture. I said my car went faster than yours because I was testing the day before. Oh, and the bod?

Yeah. When do you think you'll have a chance to get behind the wheel? Well, if I play my car's right, well, oh, I don't know about testing, but if I play my cards right and think I know where the shop's at when I leave here I'm going to go by and check it out in person so uh because I haven't seen I haven't talked to Ray I've talked to him but I hadn't seen in person but I don't know what the deal is I know I've become good friends with Willie T. Ribs and so it's like he called me the day and I called him back and he's like man when am I going to get to you know drive one of the thing I said you know I don't know you

you're not going to just show up and drive one we'll get some laps in it yeah and so I talk to Ray and I mean both of us are you know I mean I think of Willie you know, different than me, because I just got through racing, I'm going to race, you know, where he's not raced, you know, in a while. So anyway, so I think it'd be fun to get him at Carraway, and he said he might get to Carraway in a truck. Wow.

Sometime in May, and I said, call me, I'm 20 minutes away. That's your first race in the SRX. Is it Carraway? No, it's in June at Stafford. Stafford. So, but he wants to get some laps in something. Yeah. Whether it's that car or truck or something like that. He's friends with Al Nis, so he might get to, you know,

So I think that's great, and I think that, you know, the spectrum of the drivers, and, you know, I know that there's still some cup drivers in there, and then you've got some, you know, Paul Tracy and everybody. You know, I think Ernie Francis is fast. And, you know, I mean, different levels of, you know, Mark Weber and also, I mean, I'm, you know, I don't know what to expect, you know, but I think it's going to be, you know, I think it's going to be some, you know, I hope we can have fun. and at the end of the night, you know, sit around and have a beer together and go, well, that was pretty good.

Let's do it again next weekend. I think that's what everybody hopes. Yeah. Broadcasting. You've been working with Fox for, you know, you've been around that for a while. Yeah, four years probably, yeah, yeah. How much, you know, enjoyment do you get out of that? I get a lot.

I mean, I really do. I have a lot of fun with that. That's something I really enjoy talking about racing, you know, with other people and trying to get that across, just like you do. and, you know, so to be able to do, you know, this year I was in studio because Jamie was in Daytona racing. So, and they've got their, you know, segment or they got their people to do their Sunday shows, Saturday Sunday shows. But it was great to fill in and great to do that and then be able to do race hub. And, you know, I mean, it's like on one hand I really do I want to do a ton more.

I mean, I wish I could just do that, you know, because that goes back to that, you know, you kind of have to have, you know, that's put all your eggs in that basket, you know. And so doing some, but, you know, doing some other things too is not bad, I'm going to have to say, but I do enjoy it. I really do. And I love being part of that team. You know, I mean, it's like you look at everything, whether it's a race team or broadcast team or whatever it might be. And I love being there. The people are great and just enjoy it. And I get to be able to do that.

They're letting me do that. And to be able to talk and tell stories or talk about what I saw. And, you know, because, you know, I, you know, again, I'm, you know, as well, you know, we probably talk for this time. I mean, you, you see that I'm, I'm not just, like, not paying attention or I'm not, I just didn't go do something else. Sure. You know, I'm in it, I'm in it, I'm in it, I'm in it, or I'm either in it more.

So, so I love that part about it. So it's, it's, you know, as you know, it's, I will have to say when I started off at Carraway back in 1987, if you'd have told me that I would, I would, I'd grow up and have to put makeup on to go do TV, I'd have been like, are you sure? I wouldn't want to do that, you know. But as time goes on, you're like, hey, yeah, you know, and you, you know, so I really, I get a lot out of it, and I get, it's like any race, you know, you get kind of, you know, it's like, yeah, all right, you get nervous.

Yeah, you're like, all right, this is going to be great. I remember the first time I worked with NBC and did tape shows in Connecticut tape show with Kyle, so it was easy with Kyle, you know, it's just, you're comfortable. So then I got there one day and they said, hey, we're going to do a live show today, and I was like, what? And then it's like, well, after that's over with, I say, that was way easier. Because you just kind of move through it. You don't have to, you don't have to go redo it, you know.

Yeah. So anyway. So, anyway. So fast you can't think about it. Right. It just happens. If you mess up, just keep going. Yeah.

So it's fun. I mean, so it's that, you know, I get that little, like, I'm a little nervous, you know. And then when you get to it and I love the part, I mean, I'll, you know, tell a little bit. I'm sure you've experienced, you know, 15 seconds. All right. And you're, hey, what do you want to talk about? I don't know. What do you want to talk about.

You know, I was with John Roberts and Jeff Hammond, more so on Sundays, you know. And it's like, yeah, yeah, let's talk, okay. Oh, no, no, no. And I tell people that and they're like, what? Yeah. Really? Yeah. You know, we're over there going.

Yeah. So we get in there for the booth, for our own camera for the races, it's, we're getting in the booth. It's like an hour before and we're going to rehearse and we're going, all right, what are you going to say? Yeah. You know, Rick. Yeah. Okay. Well, you're going to, how are you going to toss it to him?

Okay. What's he going to say? Okay. I think I'll say this. Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. And that's the free pro.

That's how it goes, yeah. And then we rehearse it and if it's, you know, we'll change it if it's not good. Yeah. Hey, there's one other thing about Bobby that I, you know, as I had been working with Dale since 2004, I always knew that he always talked so highly of you and how you influenced him and all that stuff. But there was another place that I really remember Bobby Labani influencing you, and that was on getting out of the track. Ah.

Yes. And I remember we would show up, you know, at a helipad or something. And Bobby would look like he just got out of a Buffett concert or something. Like he'd have flip-flops on. And he was the one that mastered that. And so then you one time leaving Richmond, you sent me to a souvenir hauler. He is. And we looked like a Bobby the Bonnie fan.

And it worked like a dream. Because you had to walk through the masses. Yeah. You had to walk through it. And I guess you'd just been, you'd had that part figured out a long time, huh? I think I learned that from, maybe I've been Ricky Rudd or something like that. Can't see when you're running that. So I remember walking out of Martinsville.

I got there that morning. I mastered at different places, but the best one was Martinsville. Because you had to get out. You're stuck in the middle, no tunnel. Like, all right, how am I going to get out of here? Traffic, you know, park across the street or something like that. So it's like, all right, how am I going to get out here? Okay.

So I remember taking a playmate cooler, you know, one of the little red coolers with the top on it, flip open. Before I got there, or when I got there, I had all my stuff in it. So I had a T-shirt. I don't remember. I think it might have been, I don't remember my t-shirt, a choice. I had a couple different ones, but had a pair of shorts, flip-lops, or whatever, a t-shirt and a hat, and it might have been a Ricky Rudd hat and something else, and I had a set of headphones.

And I'd walk up the, I remember walking up after the races over at Martinsville, going through the pit gate or the flag gate, going up to the grandstands, and I remember just vividly. I was like, I got this figured out, you know, because it was like, how are you going to get out? Yeah. So I talked to all these people like Kyle Petty, and they were like, they'd lay down the backseat of the van. and make his wife drive and, is Kyle in there?

Because they'd see her and they, it's Kyle in there. And I remember hearing stories like, he ain't here. And he's in the back of these laying down, you know. And other people doing the same thing, right? And so because the traffic, you know, if you get stopped, you're there. So I walked out and I remember getting to the top of these grandstands. Of course, after I run 500 labs, I'm exhausted and walked up these steps. I'm like, I get there and this guy goes, I know who you are.

I was like, did you see me change clothes or what? I'm like, ah, so luckily he didn't make a scene, you know, but, I mean, it's, but, you know, it, it was fun to try to find different ways to try to get out, or sometimes you didn't care. Yeah. I mean, just kind of almost depend, sometimes how your day went to. Sometimes you're just tired and you're ready to go and you don't care. But I thought I'd try it one time, and so I knew that you had done that. And so I was like, if I'm aware or anything, it's got to be Bobby the Body stuff because

he's the king. Yeah. And, uh, and so I put it on, man, we cruise right out. I think a couple people said, hey! Yeah, yeah, I'm right. And then they look at you, they were like, wait, you, why you got that on? Yeah. I thought it was always something that Michael Walter and Kyle Petty couldn't do.

Right. Because they stood out. You could dress them up and anything, and they'd stand out still. You know, just because they're height and ponytail or whatever. Yeah. But your dad actually got me on one time at Watkins Glen. We finished the race at Watkins Glen, come down the start finish line. Motor along, go at the backs, and, you know, hey, yeah, great, yeah.

come in the pits pulling in here comes this renter car coming out is to him i'm like dude what in the world how'd you do that so he came in the back way changed clothes and was driving out before i ever got out of my car oh out of your race car yeah i'm like that was awesome so so then we started taking notes on that one a different different time of thing to try to you know exit the fast exit fast there was a uh i always used to say there was a race after the race it was like drivers made a competition out of everything. Yeah. That worked,

but the one thing we didn't factor in, you don't remember this, is that as you walked out the side of the hall or Massaro or somebody wanted to do an interview with you. So you had, somewhere in this world is the footage

if you're looking like a race fan doing a post-race interview. Not just any race fan. A Bobby Levani race fan, right, that's right. We need to get that picture. We need to get that, right. Well, man, we appreciate you.

Thanks for coming today. I hope you had fun. I did. I know that a lot of people are thrilled to hear this show and a lot of people still love to hear what you're up to. And now they know they can go watch you race on the smart modified tour. And see you compete, very competitive cars.

So that's going to be fun to follow along throughout the year. Yeah. Did you see my sponsor? Cookout. Yeah. Yeah. How'd you get that? Well, Jeremy was a neighbor of mine when I lived in Steeplegate.

I read that article. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so that's what a great sponsor. Yeah. It's awesome. I love hamburgers. So you all had some cookout at the track?

Probably. In the trailer? Milkshakes. Better than the hot sausages? I mean, cookout. It's a full meal. You think some great cookout is pretty good. Great sponsors, right?

I've had some pretty good sponsors along the way. Started off with sausages. You love the sponsors that, like, fit seamlessly into what you're doing. Into the scene, right. So, well, thank you very much for both you all for letting me come today and asking me. And, yes, it's fun to be able to race and see race fans that grab. grassroots level and that are there cheering on short track racing. And so hopefully we'll just get to keep doing that for a while.

Yeah, I'm sure you will. Well, you're not as much of a mystery anymore. I love learning. Well, I love learning about, you know, your growth and upbringing and all the, all the things that you did to get to where you were and to become a Hall of Famer, become a champion. You represent, you know, our sports so well. And you're a big role model of mine.

You, Dale Jarrett, a couple of the guys are real influential on me, even though you might not have known it. So I appreciate that. And, yeah, I'll see you around, buddy. See you on the virtual racetrack, I suppose. Unless you want to come to Florence and sit in a modified for a lap or two, we need to get you out there. Scary, sound scary. I love this idea. Or wherever.

So anyway, thank you. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. All right, buddy. Bob of the Bonnie on the Dale Jr. Downland. Don't go anywhere. We got more show coming your way after. this message from Balvelin.

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How about we get right to the questions that you guys sent into at Xfinity racing on Twitter. I see those posts from at Xfinity Racing. It gets me super fired up. That's good. It does. Yeah. Yeah, we're glad to have them back.

We are. Leah's going to help with the questions you sent them in all week to add Xfinity Racing on Twitter. We appreciate Xfinity Racing for, or Xfinity for being a big partner of the show. Yeah, our first question is coming from NASCAR fan updates. What are your thoughts on the removal of the infield curb and grass at Marnsville? So the curb's still there. Basically, you know, Martinsville is going to take the grass.

There's just a little strip of grass between the pits and between the racetrack that they're going to put concrete there, I suppose. You know, they no longer will need to have to take care of this grass. I think they had a red flag there last year where somebody went into the grass and threw a bunch of dirt on on the track, which I thought. So this ain't the popular opinion. A lot of people are like, you know, there's worse things. There's a lot of things to be complaining about why I complain about.

about this little strip of grass. But visually, it's just nice to see. You know, they used to have the azaleas, the bushes all around, the outside of the turns. Those are gone. That track was just a really beautiful place. And over time, as it's been built up and grown, you know, look at Bristol, pictures of Bristol years ago, you know. It's amazing.

It's an incredible looking Coliseum. Now, if you've never seen it before and you walk into it, you're amazed. And that's probably the same experience you have if you go to Martinsville in the last five years or if you're just going to Martinsville for the first time, you're going to go, great facility. What's to complain about? But to a lot of the people that's been going there for decades and decades and decades, you know, just the change going away from, it's just an appearance kind of thing.

It's an appeal visually that people appreciated. And it's gone. But the whole red flag thing was another. I didn't think they needed to spend that much time cleaning up their dirt, just like the car's raced through it. They'll clean it up. So anyway, they've done. They took it out.

It's out. It's gone. I didn't love it. I wasn't going to heart tweet when I saw it, but it is what it is done. Hard tweet. I wasn't going to heart the tweet. Oh, hard to. I wasn't going to hard tweet.

Or I wasn't going to go after. Yeah. That's what I thought you meant a hard tweet. Yeah, I wasn't going to go after. I wasn't going to hard tweet it. But anyways, it's done. So I wish they'd just, you know, remember that some of that visual stuff like the bushes or or the you know i mean when they take the grass out of these tracks they

put turf down because it's it looks like grass right they put it down they put that down for a reason rather than a big mat right right so it i think just remember as these tracks go forward that you know some of that stuff is appealing visually when you when you come to a racetrack you just don't want to see concrete and steel everywhere our next question coming from jeff shultz other than maybe lap times, do you actually feel a difference in the car when running in the traction compound? If so, what is that like? So did I ever race in the traction compound? I don't know that I very much.

I did a little bit. Yeah, they weren't really putting it down that much. The application, they were only doing it a little bit as I ran in 2017. I think what they're doing now, obviously, at Phoenix, they put a lot on the racetrack, and it's a massive advantage to be in that grip. And there's a lot of back and forth on whether people liked it or didn't like it. Initially, watching the race, especially the Infinity Race, I'm like, you know, everybody's running in it. The bottom's not even really an option.

But, you know, guys were using, you know, getting underneath people and then, you know, slide jobs or whatever you want to call that to make passes. So passes were still able to happen. If they, you know, weren't able to pass, then that's a whole other argument and not a good thing. but passes were made, cars were able to get around each other, not guys weren't stuck behind each other. It does feel somewhat a little gimmicky still. That's probably just my old traditional, you know, lens that I look through. So it's probably maybe an unnecessary opinion that I have.

But, you know, is it here to stay? I guess it might be in some cases. But it's, you know, it was obvious on TV that those guys wanted to be in it, needed to be in it. I mean, there was some guys running the low line, using the low line and making it work, and especially late in the races, that PJ1 was wearing away.

The bottom got a little better. But, man, early in the Xfinity race and early in the cup race, there was tons of grip up there, and you really weren't going to make much of a difference on the bottom. But so we'll just see. I don't know if I love it everywhere

or some of the bigger mile and a half tracks. I'm not sure that I don't want the track manipulated, I guess. Let's just like fix. Like if there's a problem with the racing, let's fix the cars or whatever's happening there to make the racing better. Fix, you know, change the track a little bit or something. I don't want to have to apply PJ1 everywhere to make a race happen, you know, make a race better or try to make a race better. Question coming from Alan Stewart.

If you could pull off a Humpty Wheeler-esque side show for a race at Charlotte, what would you like to see? I'd have to go back to the school bus jump. I kind of had a feeling you were going to say that. It was a guy called Jimmy the Flying Greek and used to jump school buses. And I remember that as a little kid. And just the sight of a school bus jumping into the air and flying and landing nose first. And it would stand there for a minute and then fall over. You know, it just was cool.

I like Robosaurus and all the other things they did, all the military salutes and so forth at Charlotte. But the school bus was always my favorite. There's a great video of that school bus jumping. at Bristol, I think in 78, 79. I love it, man. He jumps, he drives around, and he's basically just jumping ramp to ramp. I don't know if there's any cars or motorcycles or anything underneath the ramp in between the ramps. But he jumps the ramp, and as he's coming down to land the second ramp, the front axle

hits the front of the ramp, and it cleans the front tires right off the school bus, and the school bus just goes right onto the frame, onto the racetrack, and up the heel and slides down, gouging giant marks into the banking at Bristol. before the race. And the cars are lined up to get ready for the, you know, they're going to go out and race after this, you know, pre-race jump.

I'm like, hopefully nobody gets a flat, all the debris and parts and bolts and things that got sheared off right there. Pretty wild. I know. I loved Humphie Wheeler's response to that when he was on our show last year.

Jason Borland wants to know if you were able to get the Nova over to Charlotte last week. No, but I got a date to, I called Marcus Smith, who owns a racetrack. I said, hey, can I come over there? Yep, no problem.

I'm going to let him drive it. I like 60 mile an hour, no faster. The car's sitting right here. Ready to go. And man, I'm really nervous. And I'm only nervous because I don't want anything to happen that would hurt the show, hurt the, you know, they're going to have an Xfinity race, right? So we're going to go and pace the field and then pull off the racetrack.

And hopefully there's no problems, no leaks, no anything that would delay the start of the race or affect the racetrack. I know that's silly, but I'm going to worry about it. There's nothing you can say to me that will change my mind. And visually, though, I'll go back and watch the videos and then I'll enjoy it because I'm sure it's going to look cool. Because just watching the car and the videos of me driving it around in the lot here in our little neighborhood that you've seen on Twitter, it looks so good. So I can't wait to get it on a track. A.B. is watching on YouTube and wants to know the story behind the old pay phone and the horns behind you. The horns?

Oh, that phone. I don't know. Where did you get that phone by? we pulled them both out of your western town but it has an Anheuser-Busch it looks like it has an Anheuser-Busch logo on it I don't know it does yeah on the phone at least yeah I have no idea those two things were pulled out of the saloon the western town okay we just they just look cool all right we got to get no one more um from just some mike tell me about your vinyl collection any records are you still looking for oh No, no, not really. I'm not really, I haven't really been messing with my vinals lately. I still got it all downstairs, neatly organized, and all that good stuff. And I add a record every once in a while, but it's usually something of a current band that I listen to.

But I've been thinking about listening to that stuff, man, but when you've got two kids, you're not listening to much, much music, not at a loud level anyways, and there's the only way to listen to that vinyl, and that's turning it up. But I love my collection. I just haven't, I don't have any, I was in there hard for a while, like gathering and gathering, and gathering and gathering and gathering and just trying to make sure I was getting all the things that I wanted and buying a bunch of old stuff, scratch stuff, you know, getting stuff off eBay and hoping it was good. And that's always a fun challenge.

But I'm pretty, I haven't done much collecting. All right. Thanks for supporting the Dale Jr. download on YouTube and all our other social media handles on Instagram and Twitter. Please tell all your friends to check us out and follow us. And we really appreciate all you guys. I know the guys that are tuned in for this are the diehards. We love that loyalty.

And again, this is probably my favorite part of the show because you guys get to be a part of this part of the show. So look forward to next week. Have a great week. Well, why does that part of the show always seem to go so fast, Mike? Probably because you're trying to keep up with the speed of Xfinity X-5. It is fast. It's reliable and it's powerful.

With Xfinity, you can do more of what you love with faster internet. That's right, everybody. Listen, Xfinity X-Fi is more than fast so you can keep your crew connected and protected. Don't forget to send your Ask Junior questions to at Xfinity Racing on Twitter. And again, before we hit the road,

thanks to Xfinity, Premier, partner of NASCAR. All right, last call, what a great show. Great Ask Jr., a great guest. Bobby Lobney was awesome, and he gave us so much time today. We really appreciate him being patient with us. He was in here for at least a couple hours and maybe more.

The Dale Jr. Download on NBCSN is Wednesday. All right. It's been on Thursdays, but Wednesday this week. 5.30, a more, I guess, usual time. 5.30 p.m. Eastern Wednesday. You'll be able to see Bob Lubbony on NBCSN. The Dell Jr. Download. A new episode of Door Bumper Clear is out after Phoenix. TJ has something to say about data.

What that could be. Brett, complaining about something, of course. and Freddie told us how great his new co-team owner, Denny Hamlin is. Really? All right. I'm interested to hear. More than usual. It's all available on major podcast platforms. Doorbump are clear out now post-race Phoenix.

Just a great show. Thanks for everybody being a part of it, Schultz. Leah, Mike, hope you guys have a great week. Yeah, should be a lot of fun. Oh, I guess there's one thing, one last thing. Sebring, 12 hours of Sebring, this weekend. Oh, you're doing that. Yeah.

I asked, I had such a great time at Daytona for 24 hours, so I asked NBC if Lee and Calvin would mind if I joined them in the booth. Oh, wow. For the 12 hours of Seabring, I've never really been able to, you know, experience that race in any real way. So this will be a lot of fun for me. I hope the MSA crowd doesn't mind me being around and being a part of the show. But it's so much fun, and I love the series and I just want to learn more. I'm kind of going to be a fan, or I am a fan, and I get to be in the booth this weekend. So that should be a lot of fun.

Lee Diffy and Calvin are pros, man. I learned so much being around them. So it's just a great experience for me. Excited about that. So I'll be working this weekend. Looking forward to that. You guys have a great week. We'll see you.

This bit of bad assery was bad assery. It was made by Madassery. Dirty Mo Media. Dirty Mo.