The Dale Jr. Download - 343 - Ward Burton: Loyal to a Fault

Episode Date: June 8, 2021

Ward Burton – a social media darling, snake wrangler extraordinaire, southern linguistic aficionado, and one of The Dale Jr. Download’s most highly-requested guests – sits down at the table for a deep dive into his career and life with Dale Earnhardt Jr.After Ward’s brother Jeff Burton’s appearance on the show in 2019, the crew has eagerly been anticipating this conversation with Ward. Dale Jr. and co-host Mike Davis quickly learn that Jeff's episode has recently been on Ward’s mind as well. Find out what realization Ward came to with his brother ahead of this interview.The three Burton brothers experienced three completely different upbringings in South Boston, Virginia. Hear Ward’s perspective on his life as a child, why he was sent to military school and the impact their parents divorce had on each brother.Ward details where his life turned once he became an adult and how a few years later, he ended up living alone in the woods for two years. Find out where he stayed, how he ate, where he bathed, and why he finds peace outdoors.Upon his return to society, racing became an interest of Ward’s. Learn how he got into racing, why it quickly became a priority in his life and the difference between his path and Jeff’s. Hear about the night Ward beat Jeff and what that meant to the eldest Burton brother.As Ward ascended the racing ranks, he tells Dale Jr. about his late model days, moving to the Busch Series and the race at Charlotte that garnered him the attention of the sport. Hear how his first Cup Series opportunity came about and the decision behind leaving his first team to partner with Bill Davis Racing. Then Ward shares about his time driving for Bill Davis, when they peaked and what ultimately led to the team’s downfall.The two Daytona 500 winners trade memories of the emotion winning that race brought them and what it feels like in the moment. While Ward won the 2002 running, hear why he believes he would have been a player in the 2001 Daytona 500 finish and what he admits his team did to gain an advantage that day.For the first time, Dale Jr. and Ward discuss their infamous run-in at Bristol Motor Speedway in 2002. Dale first shares his side of the story and Ward recalls what was running through his mind that night. Then he provides insight into his decision not to throw his helmet and why he wishes his car restarted.Next, Ward tells Dale and Mike about getting fired from Bill Davis Racing and why his loyalty cost him a shot at other rides in the sport through the years. He shares what he learned through that experience and what he needed at that time in his career to continue racing. Then he recalls his decision to call it quits.Now Ward enjoys other endeavors in his life, including helping his son Jeb Burton grow his racing career. Ward gets deep talking about times helping Jeb brought him to tears. Lastly, he explains how racing has given his full-time life a voice. Hear why he started a conservation organization and the emotional rollercoaster he went through growing the Ward Burton Wildlife Foundation.In a special edition of Ask Jr. Presented by Xfinity, Dale takes questions from Xfinity Series drivers. Hear who asked a question, what Dale Jr. says about Matt Kenseth on and off the track, and what advice he has for young racers. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's a production of Dirty Mo Media. The Dell Jr. Download. Hey, everybody. It's Del Jr. back again for another episode of the Dell Junior Download. My co-host, Mike is here. How's it going, Mike? Going great, bud. Awesome.

We got a great guest coming into this show. Jason Schultz is here. Leah is here. And Ward Burton finally is coming to the Dell Jr. Download. So it's going to be awesome. Ward's here. So let's get started.

I'm anxious to hear his story. You remember when we had Jeff Burton on here? I do. And the whole time we're talking to Jeff, he's filling us Ward stories. That's right. So let's hear it from the man himself. Ward, Burton, coming into the Dale Jr. Download. Burton of South Boston, Virginia.

Ward, the oldest of the two Burton brothers on the Winston Cup circuit. Off turn four. Ward Burton scores his first Winston Cup win. Ward, be careful. Who comes to the caution and white flags and wins the Southern 500. Everyone on their feet at Daytona some 170,000. As South Boston, Virginia, Ward Burton comes to the line, and Ward Burton is going to win the 4th and 4th and total of 500.

I can't believe it. Dale Lord Hart Jr. and Ward Burton were racing for 12th spot, and now Ward's in the wall. Ward, what happened? I got some really good words for him, but I can't say it on TV, but you sent a nice message, though, with the throw. I wish I had something like a shot through the window. There he is. Come in here with a lot of energy. Hey, man, how's it going?

What are you doing, Ward? Man, I've been traveling to see y'all this morning. How long was the trip? Well, it's supposed to spend two and a half, but I didn't get a ticket, so it was $2.15. Nice. You still got it. He still knows where the gas pedal is. I still can tell the ones that don't know where their rearview mirror is.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. You look good, man. You look healthy. Man, I stay busy. I run from dust to dark every day. I was in the workout room this morning at 4.30 and feeding the dogs and the horses and getting their shower and hauling butt down here. What is the motivation to stay in such good shape?

Well, you know, started working out racing. But, golly, I just had such great role models growing up with a work ethic. So if I don't feel like I'm accomplishing and doing every single thing I can every day, day, then I don't feel right, right here. So I'm just, I'm just driven, man. You and your brother are so different, all right? What is the deal? Like, why you and him don't seem like brothers to me?

But y'all did. Y'all were together a lot. Y'all spent in a lot of y'all's, you know, y'all race together at South Boston. I don't know what y'all's life was like around the house when you're teenagers. But why are y'all so different from each other? Well, look, I'm going to tell you something. And I talked to Jeff last week. If I think of something three or four times, I'm going to deal with it.

I'm going to think about how I'm going to deal with it. I knew that you and I were going to be talking about this today because I saw a little bit of the interview with Jeff that y'all did last year. And I called Jeff just because this kind of spurred it a little bit. And we had a great conversation. First thing I told him is I didn't feel like I'd been a really good older brother. Really? And I told him I loved him.

And I do. And I love my brother Bronn also. But we had the greatest parents in the world. I mean, back in the 70s, you know, when I was growing up, and even in the late 60s, he'd had a lot of freedom. You know, my freedom was staying in the woods. And you got envision my mom was got a, Brian is three years younger than me. Jeff is five and a half.

So, you know, with mom taking care of those two, that gave me a lot of freedom to go out and just be a kid in the outdoors. But Jeff's growing up was a little bit different than mine. You know, I took the hard road, so I got sent away to a bunch of schools during the summer school, during summer. What kind of schools? Reading, speaking, writing, English. You know, and be honest with you, if I was sitting in a classroom, I was interested in what was going to. on outside outside of the woods not not in the classroom i just i just didn't get it and i didn't realize that uh i needed to do what was expected of me and then take the easy road i took the hard

road and that made me get sent away to military schools and all this what military schools you had hargrave i used to go to hardgrave and play basketball we i went to i was at oak ridge so Oak Ridge We have rival military schools Who knew? There was a there was I guess a bit of a rivalry

but Hargrave is the real deal Now Oak Ridge is way easier Hargrave When we'd go up to Hargrave It was scary So here's this the way When I was at Hargrave 3 and a half years

Graduated second lieutenant There were some military cools We could go to They were sharp like Fork Union They were sharp Hargrae was sharp, and I'm not saying anything about it. Sure. The other ones would be slack where you could wear your clothes hanging down and all that.

It's not at Hargrave. You're going to walk the bullring. Yeah. But anyway, Jeff, Jeff and I just had a different upbringing, and I had some grand old role model, so I was really close with one of my granddad's, Emma grandmamas. My dad, you know, we spent a lot of time together in the outdoors, but I had some other older gentlemen, particularly C.R. Sanders that taught me a lot about land stewardship, and just taught me a lot of lessons.

So he was like a second dad, a granddad, and a dear friend all at one. That started at this tall. So my roots were really deep. And when my parents separated, man, and we all... How old were you in that habit? I was in college. So mom called me and told me she needed me. home. I knew it was coming, but Jeff is 16. So you, y'all, y'all know everybody, there's no perfect

family. My mom and dad were perfect parents, and I was in still feel that way today. But when they split, it obviously affected Jeff a lot more than me. And so, you know, when I was brought up, I was made to go work in construction, because that was what my granddad found it, my dad run. It was like a family farm, you know. What do you do at a family farm? You go work and pull your weight. Well, I realized real quick when Jeff got to that age, dad did not make him do that. So it gave me a little bit of an attitude. How that, why the hell does he get to stay, you know, do something the other than work? But Jeff, Jeff worked really hard and, you know, his racing career. You know, dad gave him the opportunity. I think a lot of the.

reason that dad did what he did for Jeff at that age and not Brian or I, is dad felt guilty of why the family split up. And, you know, and then as later Dale, later as when I got in the street stock, and, you know, I went to a race to see how they were doing in my career, you know, it wasn't, dad wanted to see if I was focused. And after a year or so, he realized there was nothing else that was going to come between me and that race car after work. but anyhow, you know, I'm proud of Jeff and, you know, I've got two great brothers.

And we just had, we just had different upbringing, man. Yeah. In the same house, but different upbringing. Wow. So. Why the hell do I talk different? Jeff said I was from the southern end of the house. I don't know.

I know. He did say that. So he started racing first. All right. And so how old is he, I guess, 18? Well, when. You went. Where college did you go to?

I went to Elon. All right. And did you finish? No, sir. So how many years did you go? I went two and a half and didn't know what I was going to do in my life and called my buddy, C.R. Sanders that owned that 1100 acres that my foundation owns now is protected and went and lived in the woods two years.

Right after college. Well, he quit. You quit college. You left college. Well, I went home and my parents were like, it was my second year. like, what are you going to graduate in? I said, I'm going to graduate. I'm going to major in philosophy.

It just came easy to me. Dad said, you're not going to make a living doing that, son. You got to have business. So I went and took a business economics course during the summer. Didn't go very well. I called my buddy Sanders. Can I stay in this tobacco barn? Why did you want to do that?

Well, I wanted to go to something that I knew. I felt at peace at. And I just, you know, I just didn't know where my life was going. And being outdoors, I'm at peace. I'm self-reliant. And that's what I needed. How far was this from the house? It's about 30 miles from...

Did you tell your dad and mom that you were going to go live in this shack? Well, I didn't have a vehicle. You didn't have a car? So you really sort of disappeared from civilization then when you say you moved out of the woods. Well, I did. But look, we had some helllacious time back. here in high school with friends so I still I still had company on a weekend yeah you still have some visitors they knew what I find you but a normal a normal week you know I'm trapping and

hunting and doing what I got to do to provide food for myself and all right so you're doing all that living in the woods doing everything this is exactly what you want to be doing and what was your so your dad had an opinion about your major in college what was his opinion about this decision to be in the woods for two years, trapping and doing all that? Dad and I relationship kind of got a strained a little bit when

my parents split up. Me being the oldest, seeing what it did to my mom and my two younger brothers. It took us a few years to get past all that. Some of it was me, some of it was him. So when I decided

it was time for me to kind of get back in the real world, and start working again. You know, I went right back to Jay Burton Construction, renting a house like I always did. Hold up. So you went to the shack for a couple years. I call it a shack.

It's not really a shack. It's an old tobacco barn that's Sanders that put a rock floor. That's it, man. I just restored it a couple of years ago. What's inside it when you was there? It's a rock floor with that chimney and two old World War II bunk beds. That's pretty much it. That's it.

And you didn't have a car. So how did you get to the store? He didn't go to the store. I didn't eat anything in the store. Where did you get your water at? Creek down below. That's where I bathed at too. Really?

Yeah. And you ate everything. You went and killed and hunted and trapped for everything you ate. Pretty much. I mean, you know, look, it wasn't like I was living in the middle of Briss Columbia and an iglo. Yeah. You know, so I had some sugar and some flour.

I was just going to ask you, if you, did you season meat? Man, back then it stayed cold enough. I could bag a deer and leave the hide on it and gut it and go out and carve what I want it and put it in some rentals out and put it in the colds. What? It was that cold? It froze from like mid-December into February. If it thawed, it didn't thaw like it did down like it gets 70 one day.

So, yeah, that's... Okay. So how did you stay warm? the fireplace. Oh, so, because I had a fireplace in it yet. All right. Wow, you really did live off the way. It's pretty awesome.

I didn't know if you maybe snuck a couple runs to Cracker Barrel or something like that. Well, there wasn't any Cracker Barbarrel? Hey, man. You know, I went in town some. You know, hell, if, you know, ball hopping or whatever, you know, look, I'm single, man. Did you? Yeah, so you're raising a little hell in there. Oh, heck yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Jeff told me you were. He said he wouldn't. You know, he did party a little bit. It was, and you got to remember, man, I was brought up in the 70s. Yeah, right. It was a different world in the 70s.

So what made you decide? All right, it's time for me to go to work. I don't know. I don't. I think the biggest thing I was, I was at peace. I had done my, I had done what I felt like. I never, I don't even know if I really consciously gave it any thought. I knew where my soul was at, and I've always been at peace and outdoors, and I just,

Just, you know, I didn't do well in college. I didn't know what the heck I'm going to do in a livelihood. I just needed to, I just needed to unwind a little bit. And then when I came out, I still didn't know. I just went back to work and I always had my own place. Yeah. Were you and your dad still, did y'all mended whatever little fiction there was? Yeah, we started spending more time together.

And, of course, you know, just like me, the worst thing, the worst attribute anybody can have it, I can have no patient with it laziness. So, Dad, you know, you were at the office at 7 a.m. And you work to 3.30 at those days. So, you know, I'm going to be prompt. I'm not going to be late. And, you know, that started. Dad's seeing okay.

He's got his blankly blank together. So how long after that did you drive your first race car? Well, I drove a call along Daddy Horn. Lawrence's Volkswagen twice. When? I'm thinking that was 85. Were you in the cabin or were you out? No, I was renting from a...

You'd been out for a bit? Yeah, probably a year or two? Probably a year. Okay. I'm guessing. As your brother, was your brother racing? Yeah, so dad took Jeff straight from go-carts to late model stock. He's got this red number 12.

He's working on that and over at the house. And racing those guys back in the time, Bugs, Harefield, Wayne Paris and Morey's Hill, they were the best in the country. Yeah. So, I mean, they were kind of floundering at best. Yeah. You know, and Carl offered me that, or Mr. Long offered me that both ways. And I just said, shoo, I bought a parachute.

And then a gentleman named Carl Neubel was putting together an old streetstock, it was an old sportsman car. And we went out there, and I can remember them straightening the snout with a chain and a pickup truck. Mm-hmm. But we qualified third and took the lead in, I don't know, it was a 30-lap feature. Lap car got in my way, almost spun out, finished second. But after that, everything else was second. You know what I mean?

The outdoors, the girls, the party, and everything came out after that race car. Yeah. That's something. That's a big change then. Well, look, it's a hobby, and I'm still working for dad, but I'm driven as soon as I get off work to whenever it is, you did the same thing. That's what you did, man.

Yeah. You know. You went and worked on the race car. Yes, sir. So you ran that street stock a few a year? Year and a half. Year and a half. Yeah.

Same car. Same car. Same car, yeah. Working and working and working away. Yeah. Your brother's racing his late model. Yeah. I saw a video on YouTube of you racing a Camaro.

A yellow one. Yeah. Whose was that? That was Goof Falling. So, Goof Fallen, he's past years ago. but how many how long you'd been racing when I saw that video what what part of year and a half you've been running a year I'd been running that streetstock so that's 85 so you know I'm 25 year old so you just still pretty green hell I hadn't race anything since go car and in this video I didn't know if you'd been running late models for four years or whatever but so apparently you just run a streetstock for a year and a half and then you get in this yellow camero

goo built me go built me that car number two so two you won in that video and you won in that video and And it appeared from watching the video that it was your first win. With the late model. With the late model. Yes, yeah, you're exactly right. You're in the pit road. So the other classes are still running. Y'all run y'all's race.

You won it. And y'all were drinking out of a champagne bottle. You remember that? Well, I remember Jeff finished sucking. And Jeff, man, back and then, so dad hired the Rice brothers. Chris Rice's daddy and uncle. they were the first full-time late-mile stock crew on the East Coast

it eventually changed the whole spectrum yeah I'd say it did it really did and Jeff and them I mean they were they were bad to the bone once they teamed up yeah and you beat them that day well there's a big wreck in front of some reason I got the lead I went through the grass

and come out the other side with the lead yeah so he'd take it how you get it right you don't give it the trophy back are you No. No, no, that's probably. We called that car the crab, because it either run really good or wouldn't run at all. Yeah. So what was that feeling like, though, at that point in your life when you had, you started racing after your brother raced? And I know I'm not trying to think y'all were in a competition or anything. I'm proud. But you win, you won a race. You started after him, and you weren't in late models as long as him, and you go out there and get in that car and you show yourself as a winning driver.

Like, you can do it. Are you thinking in your mind? I know you're probably not thinking about cup racing and how far you're going to go in this deal, but you've got to be pretty proud of yourself. Maybe a little bit. You know, look, the minute I got in that street stock, the 77 street stock,

I drove the wheels off that damn thing. They were tough enough that I could bounce off the wall and not even knock the toe in off. That really, and I bet you Jeff would admit it right now, because they were floundering in Lake Model when Jeff saw me going out there and started winning races in this streetstock and all, it got his program up. Yeah.

Because, I mean, really, that first day, I can remember going back to the, Dad was building Best Western, and, you know, whether it be the plumbers or the concrete guys or whatever, of all the subs or the people that I'm digging ditching with, everybody's looking at me different. Yeah. Because I had just gone over there. I didn't win the race. I finished second, but I drove the hell out that damn car. And they looked at me different, and I was like, you know, what's different about today?

It was just the fans packed the races back in them days. And they looked at me like all of a sudden I was a different guy just because I wheeled a car. That's nice. I think it helped. I think me getting in there helped Jeff get more motivated and more. more aggressive as a driver. Because I was always the most aggressive, and Brian was the best between us both.

And Jeff, we could get to the end of the race at the same place, right? I'm wanting to lead the first damn lap. Jeff was fine to take his time and get there at the end. Kind of like you, you know, the old, like what you always hear about David Pearson, how good he was versus some others. Isn't that interesting, though,

is like one more thing that they are just completely different than each other, even all the way to how they, approached racing, you know, back then. Did you just say Brian also raced? My brother, Bron, was the best of both of us. So look, Brian had my aggressiveness, but Jeff's level headness and put them together.

So Brian would get the lead by the middle of the race. I'm going to either wreck or win the race on the first lap, but Jeff would take his maybe too much time. So Brian was an awesome, awesome go-car racing. Did he run any street stock or late mall? No, Brian was at college at that time, and, you know, it was just all a hobby. But I tell you, Brian created on the third and fourth turn, he called the Brew Crew. Yeah.

So, you know, Brian and all their friends, they'd be lining up their stands and turn three and four at South Boston every weekend. Is that right? Yeah. He had his own fan. And there was always a party somewhere. Yeah. What was the chassis on that, Camero? I just got to know.

Is it a stock front? That was a manual Savacus at a Richmond. Okay. You remember Butch Sevacus? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Butch was a good racer, too.

Emmanuel used to say, I'm the highest paid stopwatch at the garage. You know, people hired him for cup cars and all that. All I do is use my stopwatch and tell him what you can. So how long did you run late models? Let's see. So I stopped driving for goo probably in 86 or 87, drove for D. Dad. Dad built two cars for me, Hedcock cars. I'm guessing 88, 89, something. Then, you know, Humphie Wheeler created the sports division. Yes, and that's what you got into? Yeah, and that was awesome, man, because, you know, you just found these old, not bush cars, but the sportsman cars and put that late model motors in it.

And I really did really well there, and nude, man. Where did you get your car? The sportsman car is always, the interesting. The interesting thing about the sportsman cars is they were X-Exfinity cars or they had a pass. They had a pass. Yeah, they had a pair. This Nova, Dad built this car in 84, and it wanted Daytona, Rockingham, Charlottet, Darlington. Really? In 84, 85, 86. And then he built him a Monte Carlo with a new Monte Carlo body, and that car went and ran a sportsman series at Charlotte.

Wow. They cut the back up and put a nine-inch rear-in-housing in it, I mean, a quick change in it. You know, and it did, they wrecked it. It's been destroyed front and back in that series over there. But that's an example of, like, all those cars had a pass. Do you know where your car came from or how you acquired it? Bobby Temple owned the car. Who's he?

He was in racing years ago, and I don't know how to answer that. I haven't been in touch with him in a while. Dad and I drove somewhere in eastern Carolina. And if I'm not mistaken, it was somewhere near Kerry. And this car had every kind of junk stuff on top of it and everything else in the garage. And he finally got all the stuff off of the damn car. Anyway, it was Green Lime, and we got our motor on it. So we didn't set it up or nothing.

Y'all got this car from that guy. We didn't get it. It's his car. We took him the motor, and he said, we want, you know, my crew helped a little bit. He said, we'd like to meet y'all at the racetrack. Wow. I mean, really. And be honest, we had a radiator leak, so didn't get but one lap practice, but set the baby on the pole. Wow. And led every damn lap and blew a, we cut a left rear tire down of like eight laps to go. Jack Sprague, Bobby, I mean, Tarbodeon was in the field. I tell you what started happening.

People realized they could go get these cars for fairly cheap. And so after the second race, we're getting ready to do the third race. race. One guy got killed. He had spun out off a four. And the guy that hit him was going into one. So the caution, caution, like, but, you know, it's just the guys that, doesn't look, there was a few that started racing, didn't have no racing experience at all, but wanted to go race Charlotte. And that's what ended the whole series. When they let Tom Benfield, what was his name, Henry Benfield. They let Henry Benfield run one of those races. is, yeah, he had no damn business being on the race track, and he'll tell you that. I was young, and that series was pretty awesome. It was awesome. Well, you know what's interesting, so I watched

part of a tape on that first race. Your dad was helped, oh, his crew chief was running the race. Yeah, Shammardine. Yeah, exactly. So your dad was on the radio with him, and it was funny because Jeff Bodine was helping Todd. You know, so a lot of the cover.

guys were getting into this race man yeah yeah so you got you dropped all of your late model stuff to go to run that car no no we're still running late model okay i'm just saying that to me that was a big break for me because people uh people got to see you yeah and so what happened what what came of that like you go run you sat on a pole did all in laps nothing much came of it i tell you what you know really how I went from late model to to Bush was dad dad was helping Jeff with Sam Ard you know yep Jess is driving Sam Ard's car at White 12 that's exactly right you pretty good man I'm a historian buddy I can tell yeah well Ed free oh yeah Ed in his orange 49 orange and white that's a good looking car at Buick well Ed's

told me, he said, if you come up to, I think it was Delaware, I've got a car that I'll let you run. Hey. So I went up there with my bread truck and my open trailer. We were talking about this in the Darlington garage the other day. Yeah. I mean, the bread trucks were awesome. Yeah. You had all the room in it.

But anyway, Ed Feree and his wife, I mean, they were just fabulous. So what do you have? He had a motor and a car and let me take it home. It was white. I think we put 12 on it. I can't remember, but we went to Martinsville with the Glass brothers and Bill Smith and Danny Beaumar. They used to help Tommy Houston years ago. I mean, Tommy Ellis.

But anyway, we didn't make the race by time, but we won the heat race. And I think we finished 12 in the feature. Little did we know that we needed to add a lot of forward bike to those cars. But anyhow, man, that was a big deal. for us. Yeah. And after that, you know, around that a few years, I met Mike Swain, and Mike Swain and Morgan Shepard and I shared the Texas Pete nine bus car. Dang. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, really, the Ed Freed doing that, and dad was still helping me at the time. So look, I mean, back on that, dad certainly helped Jeff more than me, but just like I told Jeff the other day,

If it hadn't been for my dad, neither damn one of us would have had the opportunity. You know, you know the deal. If you're going to show your talent, which that's what got your ride back in those days, somebody had to give you opportunities. How did the ride with the Texas Peake car go, that nine car? Man, it was awesome. I mean, golly. I remember, sorry to interrupt you.

I remember going to the races and seeing like, damn, there's a different guy in that car every week. Yeah. It was wild. I didn't know what they? I didn't, like, I was young, you know, and I didn't understand why there were different people in that car every week. But did you know going into the season what races you were going to run, or were they calling you early in the month saying, hey, we need you to do? I knew. Yeah.

So I'm trying to remember. I don't think, I don't think it was the full schedule. I really not sure. I can't remember, but, you know, like I had Charlotte and Gainesville, South Austin. And when you went, so you'd already ran the sportsman car around Charlotte, so you weren't too worried about, you've been coming from a mile and a half south, or half mile south Boston track to a big track like Charlotte, you already run a sportsman car around there.

So you kind of, you weren't going in, you weren't stepping into something that was too big for you. Man, I always felt like back before they did all the pavement, if I had a good car, I owned Charlotte. How many, how many races that we lost from lug nuts or, or running out of gas, or tires. Not that I didn't make some mistakes, too. I mean, in all three divisions. Yeah.

I mean, out of all the places, how in the hell I don't have some trophies at Charlotte? I love that place. All right. But, you know, we went to Charlotte to test, the Texas Peak Nine Car bikes. And Mike was on the way, and me and Rick Wren, you remember Rick Rand?

Yes. Rick Wren could make me go, man. Rick Wren could make me haul the mail We ran two laps The fastest lap there I spun out off the two Got in the wall a little bit So I had some body body damage

So testing's over Later that day Mike was like You know you ran the fastest lap Of everybody right And I said no I didn't But I was a little irritated with myself And anyway we went back

And that was really before Before the bush guys On the mile and a half trap Could run with your dad and Harry Gant, if you go back and watch that race, I ran with Sterling Marlin, Harry Gant, and your dad's car really wasn't good that day. But we run in the top five to seven all day. And the Tommy, nobody did that back in them days.

Anyway, your dad gave, we had a late restart. Your dad knocked the hell out of me going into one and two. Got me up, I think I was four for fifth, and I ended up finish seventh or eight. But that was a big break for me. So that led into the next year of getting with Charlie Henderson, then eventually getting with Mr. Dillard. Charlie Henderson. Yeah.

What car was that? Charlie Henderson was number of 75. Oh, the food city. Food city. Yeah. Food country. Food country, yeah. Yeah.

Heck of a nice guy. That car had been in the series for a long time. A long time. Yeah, heck of a nice guy. You know, poor thing, he just didn't have. He didn't have the right people around him, but heck of a nice family. And then you got into the Hardee's deal. Yeah.

With the 31. Well, there was Gwaltney then. Gwaltney, the 27. Yes, sir. Oh, yeah. Yep. And that team was around a really, really long time. Yeah, because, you know, Mr. Dillard used to be a really good racer himself.

Yeah. But his son-in-law is Rick Mass. Yes. And then, yeah. He held Rick. Yeah, he started fielding cars. for Rick. And then when they split up...

He did his own deal. Elton Sawyer was driving for him. Yep. Yeah. Like McMurray drove that car. He was 27. I mean, the ownership thing kind of moved and changed a little bit and shaped around a little bit, but that 27 stayed in the series until I got there.

Same sort of organization. It wasn't Mr. Dillard at the time. No. You won Rockingham, though, right? It was like... In 1992? In 1992? It was around there.

Like, was that your first Bush win? Yeah, 91 or 92. And so what are you thinking then? I mean, when you're winning now at this level, are you, when do your site set for the big time? Have you even allowed yourself to get to that point yet? You know, I never really, I never really was concerned or given a lot of thought to cup cars. But, you know, I knew like what I had done at shit. Charlotte, you know, all it was was Rick Dennis and Mike Swain and Rick Ren and me.

That's it. That's the team. Yeah. And so I knew if I had the opportunity, you know, godly, I passed up so many rides. I mean, at 93, who you drove for called me and wanted to know if I wanted to run some cup race. Who? Rick. Rick.

Yeah. Rick Hendrick called you a 93 to run cup? Well, it wasn't full time. said, would you like to run some cup races for me? Well, I was ecstatic, and I called Mr. Dillard, and he wasn't happy at all about it. Because you all had a good thing going at that point. We did, and, you know, hell, he had,

I mean, so when I got to racing for Mr. Dillard, I didn't have to work construction no more. You know. Right. You know, I'm full-time racing, so, you know, I don't, man, it's, you know, going back if I look over those things, I think I could have had a whole lot more wins, but it's just, you know, I had to just

tell him no, because Mr. Dillett was really, and I think some of what it was and what him and Rick had been through, you know, a stunning loss, I don't know, just. So that any more, so what other rides did you get that you turned down? I don't even know where I'd start. You got a lot of them. Yeah. Well, hold on.

But that's cut. We're going to get to that in a second, because then you. We are. Yeah, because in 93, you go, you win three more. I mean, now you're still winning that number, that Hardy's car. Yeah, so Gwaltney pulled out. I was lucky enough to meet Randy Pritchard. He ran Body Knoll that owns a bunch of Hardys in Virginia and North Carolina,

so they were a sponsor in 93. And so, and you're still running for Dillard. Yes, sir. And then you go to Cup in 94. Yep. But this is Coe in the Cup with Dillard. Right. Right.

I remember when y'all went to Charlotte, it's qualified on the pole with a cup car. Yep. flying. Oh man, we had that baby hooked up. Unbelievable. The next day is when the right front tire, that was my first real blackout from a concussion. You know, where I knew who I was.

Mike, you could walk in there, and I would ask you the same, this is what they tell me. I'd ask you the same three questions. Dale, you'd ask you the same thing. But if you walked out and came right back in, I didn't even know you had been there. And then all of a sudden,

Not the light bulb was fully, fully bright, but all of a sudden I came back and I was released. That was Dr. Petty. Dr. Petty did such great job for all of us when we get hurt, you know. He did. He's retired. I remember that car, that race, and how fast you were. So, you know, guys come into the series, guys come into NASCAR, come into the Cup Series. There's new guys coming in every year, rookies, and everybody pays attention to the rookies. they have to do something. They got to do something, right, to stand out. And that was your moment, I think,

where you, I mean, we had been watching it in, I'm young, but we'd been watching you in the Xfinity series, but you popped on, he popped on the scene there and put that car out there on the pole, and everybody was like, dang,

this, you know, you weren't, it was a brave moment in my mind watching you qualify that car because you had no fear. Have you ever had one fast enough? I never have. I even never sat in a car that couldn't be better. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. So, I mean, nobody's going to back in, you know, when the sidewall started changing and becoming so stiff, this technique didn't help me. But even when I didn't have the best car, nobody was going to out drive me in the damn corner. That just won't happen. But, you know, as that evolution,

started changing, that wasn't helping me any with it, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so now, Hendricks offered you a job, you turned it down, but then you're released from the 31 in 95, after 21 races, it says here, and this opens the door

for Bill Davis, I'm assuming, but like at this point, you're turning down rides? Well, so, so look, Mr. Dillard, like I'd already said, gave me my, you know, it was the first time I'm driving for a living. It was a rough start. You know, so we missed, in 94, we missed Daytona, we missed Rockingham, we made Richmond by like a tenth of a second to third race.

Freddie Friar had left at the end of 93. For whatever reason, him and Mr. Dillard just couldn't work it tomorrow anymore. So we didn't have, we didn't just have any leadership. But then all of a sudden, Philippe Lopez and Ronnie Crook came on board as a pair. those two guys have made a huge input in the sport way beyond what we did together but once they got there look we had that was back when you mounted the body

I don't know the measurement let's say it's 32 inches that's what you run at Daytona and it's 34 to down every car we had was 32 inches oh you remember what I'm saying to what they mound the body so I mean we just it took them a while but we I feel like we did a lot with very very little We finished second at Pocono. You know, we did sit on the pole at Charlotte.

The last race at Atlanta, if you watched that race and that night, we were going to win that damn race. The motor blew with the, I mean, we're done with pit stops because we're going to lose spots in the pit. We're doing with everything. We got fuel. We're leading a race. We're going to win it in Blue Motor.

So we're very little. We were doing a lot, even the day that Mr. Dillard needed to fire me, because he knew I was going to leave. I was going to finish the year out, but he knew I had to leave. We finished six at Michigan. I mean, that's really, it was a few guys. And Mr. Dillard, God bless his heart. He spent a pile of his own money keeping that thing running.

So, I mean, it was tough. But he knew you had to leave because you were due your chance to be in a better ride. Well, it wasn't just that. It was, man, I mean, he had, he, he didn't have enough funding sponsorship. Got it. So, Hart is with a good sponsor, but they weren't that. good. Remember Hoosier was in the sport in 94, so he got free tires. They wasn't in 95. So just that bill alone, you start adding them up. You know what I'm saying. Yeah.

This is tough, man. So you got a call from Bill Davis? How did that conversation start between you and him? George Debenart had called me. And so I'd already met with George and Bill and Gale and Dave Elgino of MB&A. we'd already had some conversations. And man, I mean, shoot, that 95-ponniac with the shape of that body and Chris Hussey and the team, we missed North Wilkesburg, but other than that, I mean, it was just solid, man. And it's just a really, Bill Davis,

that's a really small team. I mean, just a real small shop. It's nothing like you got right here. And it was just, it was working at you. Did you remember, like, when did you say, start noticing Bill Davis. Was it before Ward started driving for them? Because that's when I first started noticing Bill Davis.

I think it was when Bobby was driving for him a little bit. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I guess the curious thing for me was, is the Maxwell House sponsorship left juniors and went to Bill Davis with Bobby, I think. And I think I was like, well, who's this, Bill? Who's this? And Bill's team came from the Xfinity series with Gordon.

so everybody was kind of aware of Bill and he was moving up and moving out of the Xenity series where they'd had a lot of success with Jeff Gordon and Mark Martin. And so you were kind of paying attention to seeing whether he could make it in the Cup series as an owner. I mean, he had a great reputation. There was a lot of friction, you know, when Jeff left. Yes, he was mad. Yeah. Because he felt like that Ford and him had this, you know, agreement that Jeff was going to,

they were going to, they were all doing this together. Right. Right? And then Jeff left to go to Ricks and Bill was like, well, damn, you know, so the next thing in line, I guess, was Bobby. And Randy LaJoy drove for him too. Is that right? I think Bobby had already left a year before when I got there if I'm not mistaken. So how did you and Bill Davis get along? I mean, is this, were you happy? You're now driving for Bill Davis? He's there a while. We got along well. You know, I always felt like communication, open communication. Bill wasn't very good. good communication when there was an issue.

If there's drama, you know, that, to me, to me, that's when you got to be the best communicator. And if you think of something three or four times, how you deliver it is important, right? But that's when you have to communicate the most. And I always felt like that was a big weakness, because if there, there could be an issue here or there, and, you know, it was just tough for Bill to talk about it and, um, consequently sometimes things will get worse. Yeah, for sure.

He didn't like confrontation. Some of it was that, and it's just, you know, at the same time, it's kind of like what we talked about with Jeff and I. On Bill's perspective, what was going on behind the seams, I'm sure there was a lot of times it was some financial crisis that he wasn't talking about. I mean, there was quite a few times he would tell me this or that, and he would owe me X amount of money for driving.

and I'd just say, well, keep it just trying to help. So, I mean, you know, I wish that if I could go back and do things over with Bill, I should instigate more positive communications. Because, I mean, we came a long way staying together to a certain point. And then, you know, once technology got there, when the sidewalk, Good Year Towers start changing an 01. and, you know, shortly after that, man, it became an engineering game. And that meant resources had to be a lot deeper.

Yeah. And, you know, that's a tough, tough road. What was your best year, you think, with Bill? I would say running consistently in 2001. Yeah. Because the mile and a half, I mean, I always was, I loved a mile and a half. Tommy and I were really doing well. when we went to

Rockingham to test in 01 put in a stiffer right rear spring because I couldn't get the nose to turn and tighten the car Tommy was yelling at me and we had the little bit of telemetry on it

it showed you know brake throttle steering input it showed 4 degrees more steering input which obviously is tighter right he went and put the spring on the spring tester well what was going on we were keeping the damn spoiler

there. Well, there's no way I know that, and he sure didn't do to know it either. But you know what I'm saying? That's what started to change where you needed technology, just the grassroots guy throwing stuff in a car and fixing it, didn't fix it anymore. Yeah. But you and Tommy now had some success. I mean, you win the Southern 500 at Darlington in 2000, or 2001, you win the Daytona 500 in 2002. You and Tommy, I mean, I don't know what it, from the outside looking in, I I don't know how the Virginian and the New York or the dynamics of that relationship. Communication yet. I don't know how that resolved.

It was great, man. From success, from an on-track success, you guys had it. And then you go win the 8,000-500, obviously. So when Tommy first came on board, you know, look, I'll tell you this story. Chris Hussey made me haul freight in 95. Changed the body style. I don't know what the heck else changed, but we just. lost it somewhere. We still had Poconos and Charlottes and I could name a bunch of races

that we just flat gave away. Couldn't even see the second place car. I mean, we got, the only way we're going to lose the race is they give it away. But we lost their consistency. I look back on it, and this was something that, you know, I bet you Bill would do it over. I mean, MBNA, Charlie Carly told us, and I felt like we were in the principal's office, he said, if you find another position for Chris Hussey on your organization, and you give this boy a new crew chief, I'll be the highest down paid sponsor in the garage. And Bill didn't do it. Damn.

He did not do it. So eventually in the latter part of 98 is when they made the switch. Our second race at Charlotte, we finished second with Tommy and I. So Tommy was aggressive, man. I can remember Bill going to Arkansas one weekend. Tommy started cutting the bodies off of the cars. he's trying to get some down for us you know and bill come back and was kind of freaking out

well it paid off at the racetrack yeah you know just because this car looks real pretty it doesn't mean it might be might not it might could be improved so Tommy just was aggressive man he brought Jimmy Rylans and a bunch of guys with him it just it just pumped the team up yeah what do you still recall when you think about the 2002 Daytona 500 I want to I was wanting to know if you knew what you'd done

when you win you know what you've even done no did you when you want no I was happy I was my emotions and a happiness about it I think matched the moment but I don't think I realized how how special that was I probably didn't appreciate it so you're you're labeled for better or for worse they when you introduced Dale Arnhart Daytona 500 winner yeah yeah that's when it sinks in Oh, it's time. It's years where it really sinks. Oh, is that right? Did it do you deal?

Yeah. I mean, I think probably about five years after is when I really got to where I thought, damn, I'm so glad I won that. You know what I mean? I remember being wrecked out or something broke or whatever, but I wasn't in the race. There was a big wreck. Yeah, yeah. So I was, but I remember watching y'all coming.

around the track and y'all running the top and there's about 10 cars in the lead draft with you in front of it and i was thinking damn he's going to win his race you know i just couldn't believe it hold on a second the thing that happened speaking of the wreck remember that's the red flag where sterling marlin pulled on his finger got out of his car yeah yeah yeah but he puts you up front and you know when he made that mistake he was leading the race i think he got a little contact in that caution he would but i'm so well When I have to go back and look at Daytona's, in 01, we had the baddest hot rod there. We led the most laps.

It would have been a different outcome of you and Michael, all I can say. Yeah. Oh, if you had been up there? I mean, yeah, because I would pass and Tony Stewart by myself on the outside, and they were the next two. Yeah. So I'm not saying Michael wouldn't have one to, you know, all I can say, I was going to be a player. You're going to be in the middle of it. My car was bad.

It was handling, and it was cheated up. And I'm not going to go tell you where. It won't under the hood. But, I mean, that thing was hauling the front. Wait, wait, wait a second. This is a safe space. You didn't know that? Like, this is where people come and tell about all their cheated stories.

I didn't know there was any safe space. It was cheated up. At least he said that. We just did a podcast with any feature man, and he unloaded. He told us everything. I did. It was awesome. Remember that car that Hary Gant won four in a row?

It had all kinds of things going on and he told us about. Well, we had, so the floor firewall, I go, hell, I'm going to say, who said. The floorboard on the car, we had welded an extra layer of floorboard. And the only way you're going to tell it if it somehow or not it flipped up and gotten torn all the heck. Anyway, and we went to Talladega, I don't know why, but every single thing we touched made it car better, even if I got a penny, if I'm walking and I'm acting like I'm pushing in the car and I stuck a penny up under the left top windshield and put that penny in there,

it was a half a tenth. Every down, every time it was a half a tenth. Anyway, but my mindset on the O2 is I have to miss the big wreck. And we wasn't handling good, but Harvick blocked Gordon going into two. And that's probably the wreck you got into. And man, if you look at the tape, I'd, turned it just enough not to spin out and I bet you I missed a 29 by that much. And I come on the radio, I said, we just got our chance.

And then Tommy made some last adjustments on the last stop. My car was handling. So we had worked our way up to third. Say, hey, man, you know, you got to be somewhere in that position to win those races back in. Yeah. Where's that trophy? It is in my basement. I went to Bridge Columbia and somewhere around 03 or something.

I don't know when it was. And my wife hired an interior decorator and took all my stuff out of storage and put it in a basement wall like this. So I'm kind of embarrassed when I bring a guest over because it looks like a Ward Burton shrine. Now I'm trying to put Jeb stuff covering my stuff up. That's hilarious. You could have said that that trophy got turned into a deer feeder and none of us would have been surprised. No, no, no. That's not going to happen.

You've got to talk about Bristol. Oh, yes. Which race we're going to talk about? Did he have it coming? That's all I want to know. I didn't do anything. Did he have it coming? I never paid him back.

He never did. Oh, so he still got one coming. Appreciate it, Mike. All right, set this race up. Who wants to go first? We just running along middle, the race or something. I don't know when it was in the race,

but we was running about 15th or 20th. We went to top 10. Were we? Yeah, hell of you. We'd been in top 10 all night. All right. We've been running. We're running along.

Well, we're running. And I am, I'm trying hard to get by board, and the cars were pretty even. And if you got to run, it was kind of thing at Bristol, if you got to run on somebody, it wasn't a big one. You wasn't going to get a big run on nobody. we all running around the bottom of the racetrack. We hopped up out of turn two. It was pretty fun back then when the way you run turn two,

you kind of clipped the apron a little bit. And if you did it just right and the guy in front of you didn't do it the way you did it, you might have an opportunity because his car would kind of hop up out of the corner and your car would keep turning. And I had a run up to his bumper, and I think I had about three inches. We went down in the corner and he's coming down. And I was arcing the heck out of it.

I was like, I was like, I'm, we're going to hit. And we hit. And it spun him out and he hit the fence. And he was mad. He was mad. He should have been mad. So when you came back around on the caution laps, were you surprised when you saw him down on the track? I mean, I was like, that never had happened to me before where somebody was that mad at me.

Because I try to, I hate conflict and hate arguing. fighting and I was just disappointed and not in him but when uh growing up with dad and growing up son going to the racetrack right I respect all the guys that dad raced I respect them like they're his you know maybe you know there's friends or they're you know I don't want to I don't want to do anything so it'll make them mad I wrecked Dale jared at Watkins glen stupid just ran over him in the carousel and he come up to me we went to a test at bristol the next week and we pull in and I think it's just a tire test or something and I pull into the track and my hauler's on one side of the track and Dale Jarrett's on the other and I was like oh shoot and I mean I ain't been there five minutes and he come in the holler and he goes did I do something to piss you off? And I was like man this is terrible.

I feel terrible because I mean I respect this guy right and I done mess this up now I've done messed up that I want his respect and I didn't mess it up and so that was kind of the same feeling that I had with Ward and because we always had raced good and stuck my nose somewhere I guess this shouldn't have put it well did you see so when you when jeb started driving for you and Kelly and Joe Max and all y'all did a deal y'all did you talked about it yeah well tried to make it happen to you or two before but what I was getting at I felt like you know particularly you and they was junior motorsports I felt like that I should do something because I mean people remember Dale and I

you know having this the highlight yes so I did a thing on social media have you seen I saw it and you know I'm just I just winged it that was my first take and I'm sitting there with his phone doing a selfie which I've Jeb is in

fluenced me to do. Anyway, what I said, what I meant, you know, you look. It was nice. Hey, man, you know, I've made a bunch of mistakes on the racetrack, and, you know, I've had people probably wrecked me more than I wrecked down, and, you know, at the end of the day, was I mad? Was I madder than mad? Absolutely.

But I went up to you in Richmond. I said a little bit of something to you, but it was. wasn't confrontational and, you know, I knew that you didn't mean to rip. Do you remember that? I just went up to him and he said, I said, you should have called me. He said, well, I didn't know what to say, which was an honest. That's true. And I swear, just be truthful.

And I walked off. I didn't know why you didn't throw a helmet. Why did you throw your gloves out? Helmet, I like my helmet. If I can get a helmet to fit, the last thing I'm going to do is mess that helmet. But if you're going to send a message, send the message, man. And there's nobody going to change your, change your throwing gloves. loves at him. I mean, hell I wouldn't, well, if my car would have cranked up, that eight

car wouldn't have finished. I can tell you that. That's how pissed off I was. Yeah. But you had to I mean, you rate. Mike, don't get him mad. Damn. I've always wanted to ask this, though. But you race with him the next week. How long did you carry that? Oh, I don't forget, but I owed a lot more to his dad and I did him. I mean, really, that's the only, that's the only conflict. Dale and I raced, I don't know of another time, we might have rubbed a little bit, but I don't remember another time, but I was at all irritated Dale about what he'd done

a race truck. But you had several with the senior? Well, I could go into it. We could have a whole show just on that, but I mean which driver didn't. Yeah. Did you ever throw anything at him? He, hey, you can be as honest as you want to be about

my dad in this room. We are, we let him have it. We don't, nobody. We throw gloves. Well, let me just say this. If I wrecked the three car, you're going to get booed, you're going to get hate mail, it's long before social media right. If the three car wrecks me, it's just racing.

Yeah. That's just the way it, that's the way it was, man. Jeremy Mayfield moved him out of the way and lived to tell about it. Well, I mean, heck, I called the big wreck at Talladega. 2000, I think. Yeah. I hit the left, my left front got on the apron. So Dale's, you know, we're all holding each other, Dale.

He didn't do anything wrong. My left front, that would be four. That's when they put the line down there so you can see the line after that. And anyway, it got me loose. And I got into the left rear of Dale, and that's when Dale got hurt. He got burnt some, Bill Elliott, and the next week, you know, when I got out of the car, immediately they said, what happened? I made a mistake.

I called the wreck. it was no lie for four to five weeks I would get booed at the grandstand but more importantly than that I think we were in California the next week and I'd gotten Bill Simpson to

I'd go into a full face helmet finally and he cut my eye ports back because before he was like this and I just I wasn't going to do it and I went into your dad's hauler and showed it to him Because, I mean, Bill was really good. He could fix belts or helmets, and I could see.

I got my parental visions. You know, I can see my hands there, and I'm not going to drive something. It blocks it. But I went in there and told your dad again, I was sorry, and he called me back that day because I had called him. I think I waited until Monday to say I was sorry. I called y'all's office. I think he was on the bulldozer doing some work at the farm.

Probably. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, we had a, we had a, a bunch of history. I come out to end of it the other way more times than not. But well, so, so we can finally put the bristle thing down at least to rest. Hey man, you know, at the end of the day, this gentleman here sitting in the table with me, and I thank you for having me here. After your dad passed, I mean, I can't imagine not only with everything that was going on, all the dynamics with your family, but, you know, you had the whole. You had the whole

sport on your shoulders. I mean, you really did, and how you handled that and still do is amazing. I mean, there's not a lot of, there's not a lot of people that could have done what you did. I mean, you know, back in them days after that happened, the half of the stand was red with Bowies or shirts or hats. I mean, to carry that load, man, you just, you did, you did an amazing job. You still do. Well, I appreciate that, man. I mean, it's a, uh, I think the reason why I wanted to do as good as I could was because of you guys like you, you know, the Ward Burtons, Bobbobonies, Dale Jarrett, all those people that I raced against and I wanted, y'all help me, you know, not even, not even directly, but indirectly helped me get from

week to week and showed me how to act, showed me how to handle, you know, myself in and around the race car in the garage and after races and interviews and all that stuff. And I still leaned on you guys and um well i wasn't there much for you know because you know look i i had a racing life and i got this whole other life and i've always been that way of me racing gave racing gave this other thing that's my full-time life of boys so you know i wasn't know it's there for you i'm just saying you know it just however you did it and continue to do what you just did you did amazing job because that's a that's a hell of a lot of pressure man You know, that is, I don't care who you are.

So I want to get back to going to race for Hoss, C&C. You left Bill Davis and went to drive. Well, he fired me. Bill fired you. Yeah. How come you got fired? Well, so Bill got caught building Toyotas. And I got the phone call from a top guy would dodge at Dover,

that they were dropping the support. That was 2,000. and two. So, I mean, crazy thing, man, we won two races in two oh two, but everything unfrazzled. Wow. Everything fell apart. Baldwin got fired shortly after.

They got caught building Toyota trucks, and the following year, you know, I had in the contract that if they released me for any reason, other than medical reason or whatever, that I'd get 10% of deal. And Bill came to me one day. being on the car and said, you know, I don't feel comfortable with that.

Think I or take it out of the contract and said, you know, okay. Well, within six months, I get this letter to me. They hand me a letter at the shop. So, I mean, you know, when I look back on it, I don't know, I don't really know who was influencing who back there, but I'd stay there for the right reasons to look after those people. But you were at the shop and got a letter? I was at the shop, and a gentleman that worked for Bill named Mike Brown handed me an envelope,

and I read it on the way, and it was them basically wanting to release me. Up until that point, had you had opportunities to go to other teams? Oh, hell yeah, man. The 28, the 99, the 18, I could keep name them. The 99, the one that your brother ended up in. I gave Jeff that, Rod. How'd that happen? Well, because Buddy Parrott and I were trying to.

get buddy parrot to come to bill davis and then uh mark martin got with me at wiking glenn and one star another team with jack obviously and um you know again bill had done a lot for me at the time and buddy buddy had buddy decided and he called me and said look i i think the best opportunity for us to go with this rouse deal i just i don't know man you know george devonaut dave elgina charlie carly Bill Davis. I mean, a lot of people would help me get the 22 car, and I just wasn't ready to look after my own self and drop all of them. So Jeff called me.

I told them who'd call. When they eventually dropped you, you had that make you feel. I've learned a lot. So I am still loyal as a little puppy in the yard. I just probably got blinders on as much as I did. Yeah, so, I mean, if you're my friend, man, I got you back no matter what. But you felt betrayed then? Look, at the end of the day, again, like we were talking,

I don't know what was going behind the scenes. So I'm not here to judge anybody. All I know is I did what I was going to say that I was going to do on all cases. I'm going to follow the code that my conscience telling me to do, and I'm never going to vary from it. I'm just not going to do it. There's just so many drivers that do things so differently in those situations. You know what I mean?

And there's drivers like you that are loyal to a fault. And then there's the guys that jump at every opportunity and they leave anything in the wake. That's just crazy. I'm just a country boy from Halifax County, Virginia. You know, and I've just been always talked to this is what you do. I would have liked to have had some people around. even with Mr. Dillard, you know, when Gibbs was calling a Chevrolet about that opportunity, how I could structure things so it still maybe take this opportunity,

but still be able to... Not turn you back on one year in. Yes. Yeah. And I tell you, somebody I always thought did a good job with that with Dale Jarrett. You know, like he was, it was on a, the way he left the Wood Brothers to go to Robert Yates. You know, it may have been Joe Gibbs at that time. Yeah, it was.

But, you know, it's just I needed some people I can confine in as I look back on. I just didn't have anything like that. Was that zero car? They were sort of in between drivers at the time. Is this a good opportunity and the only opportunity or what? It was the only opportunity. My stock was down. I mean, we hadn't run very well.

and Tony Furr was a heck of a good guy. I mean, at the time, Joe Custer literally didn't know a damn thing about cup racing. Yeah. You know, so he was trying to do it for Gene Haas. Once Tony Stewart got in the ball with that, I mean, it was just a ball game changer. But really, they couldn't figure out how to use the Hendrix resources. You know, so, and after that, you know, I got to the point. I just, I didn't know who to trust, and I just put the helmet in the closet.

You quit. I quit. Did you want to quit? No. No, I felt like I was in my prime, man. I mean, I just, I mean, even a day I feel just as good as I did when I was 18. I felt like I was in my prime, and I just wasn't going to fight the battle. Really, the biggest thing is just who I could trust and who I couldn't.

Yeah. Because, I mean, I've always looked after myself. Hell, we all have to, right? but I've always looked after others as much as myself and still do. So you got out of that car. You end up coming back in 06 and 07 and running in that four car from McClure a little bit. They come across to me as a fun group. I don't know how fun it was that particular point.

Their business ended up closing up. Right. They were always kind of, they did it a little different. They weren't a Charlotte-based team. Right. And they ran out of Virginia. Anyhow, I have to wonder, did you, when you stopped driving, and you still feel like he had so much left in the tank,

how were you able to stay away from the seat? Like any seat, right? You could have raced with your son. Did you race with your son? He's trying to get going. He runs some late models over the last decade. Yeah, later. I mean, Jeff, Jeb was still quite young then.

I know, but it probably affected. You look like you could get in a late model now and go to Ace or somewhere and run top three. Man, you know what I did? So, you know, I always have. this other life. Even when I was racing, I was, when I wasn't racing, I was doing work on Sanders farm or I was doing some outdoor activity. Then when I started my foundation, I mean, little did I know I was creating another child. I mean, literally. So, so by that time, you know,

I created the foundation 96, man. And that was an emotional roller coaster, particularly the first 10 years. I mean, I had a lot going on while I was still driving. I was doing at least two full-time job. So for me to leave it, I had a whole other life. It was already established. I mean, who I was and what I was taught as a kid, it was already instilled in me. So I knew, I mean, racing was an occupation. This is a lifetime endeavor with outdoor and giving back and trying to leave the world in a better place. And so I've been so driven on that. Do I dream about it, or particularly those first few years?

Absolutely. I mean, was it easy for me? Yeah, because if I'm stressed, I become less stressed if I'm working and I'm busy. My callus is going to stay on my hand. So, you know, that was my release, and I've just, I've been driven ever since. So did I give it thought? Do I feel like I've missed a lot of? opportunity, absolutely, but I didn't have control of it. Yeah. You know. Does Jeb's success,

which congratulations, by the way, because I also know how hard you've worked, you know, and Jeb winning that race this year is just, man, we all love that one. But did Jeb's success pacify also a little bit of maybe what could be that urge that, you know, of the way that you, and you've always got the woods, but also Jeb is now doing quite well. It's completely separate. It's just you're able to compartmentalize all that. It's completely separate. Look, the decisions I made for my career was mine and mine only. And the one that I had no control over it, I didn't have any control of it. So, you know, if something goes on with our conversation today that I didn't have control of, I'm not going to

give it a whole lot more thought. There you go. You know what I mean? What I did, I did it. Yeah. And the decisions I made, I made. So, and with some things, at me that I wish hadn't been absolutely. That's just life, man. Jeb's career has been much different than mine because everything is much different. If you look at what Jeb did in 2012 in the turn of truck, he would have been offered a bus ride the following year had Dale and I have been doing that 15, 20 years later. Because there was 30 or 40 car owners with sponsors in the garage. And that's why the phone used to ring.

And does talent still mean something? Absolutely. But y'all know somebody's got to be behind somebody. And a lot of times, there's funding associated with it. It's just the whole thing has changed. So all I know with Jeb, it's been, man, I don't know how many times I've cried or in despair or happiness over it. I mean, it's just, it's just been, it's been crazy. I mean, when Cherokee Tobacco, which was an e-cigarette, which was sponsoring then Turner Scott,

they left Daytona the fastest truck, and I get a phone call. And after that phone call, trying to figure out how to fix it, I didn't leave my office for eight days, other than go take a shower. I was so stressed out, you know, it's just, so. A couple years after that, I finally just said to Jeff, look, I can't carry it on my shoulder solely no more. I cannot do. It's going to kill me. And other things that need to be getting done aren't being getting done.

And be honest with your son, they don't want to talk to me anyway. They want to talk to you. You're the driver. And shortly after that, I started clicking. And, you know, I'm proud of him. Whatever happens in a racing career, the kids got a work ethic. He treats everybody right. He's not going to, he's not got any unspoken motives.

He literally, if you were his partner, he literally wants you to succeed as much if not more than him. And that's all you can ask for somebody, you know. Yeah, he works hard, man. He's the example of what you really want out of a driver when outside of the seat. You know, he does, he's great in the behind the steering wheel. A lot of them are. But what he does outside of the car, not a lot of guys are doing.

Yeah. Yeah, and I know he has to work hard to get these opportunities he's got. But if he, you know, when he does get those opportunities and he gets to partnerships like where he's got with a colleague, he still has that same pressure, you know, intensity. That's right. Of his social media, I follow him on social media and all the work he's doing there with all the various partners that he's got. All the stuff is his own brand, you know, it makes sense.

It seems to connect to what he is and who he is. Well, thank you. He does a really amazing job, and I think he's a great example for guys when you're trying to show a driver like, hey man, you know, I know you think if you win this race, it's going to click. But you've got to do these things too. You've got to be this guy every day, not just on race day. And Jeb's amazing when he's outside the car, one of the best examples that we got of a driver doing what he needs to do. What are you doing every day? Like what are you trying to accomplish with your foundation,

So I see you're on social media, fixing beaver dams and holding snakes. But what are you trying to accomplish? What is your goals? Well, so, you know, it's why I'm wearing this right here. I can help one of my children, right? So if somebody sees, I want to represent collic racing and nutritional exclusion. My goal, other than my children, is that my foundation, to be able to live on after I'm gone.

And what does your foundation do? So we're a conservation organization, and we're all about proper land stewardship, which the foundation owns almost 10,000 acres. And we've managed that for Pacific species from forestry to wetlands to we've got some endangered plants. And every one of those acres is open for veterans and youth outreach. And I've got a great staff. and a bunch of volunteers. So I don't know how many hours, but it's a lot of hours

are letting and providing services to a lot of the guys in the military has given so much. We run a program called ACUB, Army-compatible use buffer for two National Guard bases. And so we've got a contract with a National Guard, and that's to protect, like at this base of this circle, that's to protect the outskirts of the base so that the men and women can get the proper live-fired

training. So it could be an abling tank. It could be a drone dark skies. It could be small fires. It could be mortars. It could be a lot of stuff going on. And these two bases are two of the top training bases in the country. That's been a that's been a blast. I mean before I came in here, I was just talking to a gentleman named Dave Weidnick. It used to be a colonel. He's second in command of 14-town gap in Pennsylvania. And to build a work. with these majors and colonels and these civilians they got their act together man they're true Americans who care about not only our freedom but the men and women that are providing those freedoms so you know from there to our youth outreach I mean we really we really

focus on four things and that's the only compatible use buffer land proper land management youth outreach and in all the all those put together where we've just we got a lot of outreach we're getting ready to build a um a facility that's just for a landowner and uh and youth and uh veteran outreach which would be a shooting a 3D archery uh fishing and some ax throwing competition we're building a pavilion so man we're just trying to give back yeah but i mean the foundation and the big picture we've helped conserve directly or indirectly over 60,000 acres with using tools like conservation easements that's available for all landowners that take landowner can economically thrive from making a perpetual decision so you know

it's all about just giving back you know and um i want that foundation live on after i'm gone for all the right reasons so really dale my i'm working on things that's a heck of a lot more important than me. Yeah. And I love it. Do you think that Jeb has that same passion to carry the foundation beyond your lifetime? Jeb has done so much to help us with his partners, all of his partners support us in some way

another. You know, he's learning. I did not move to Charlotte, which probably hurt my racing career because I wanted to raise all three of my kids in the rural culture. And I already had such a longing because I told you about. C.R. Sanders and that 1,100 acres, I already, I already had such a ground and I couldn't leave, but yes, I think, you know, time would tell, but he's got all the tools, and I think he's definitely got the passion, yeah.

Where was it when Jeb started showing leadership or entrepreneurial prowess? And just tell this story of the motorhome lot when he was a kid, because I've always want to know if Ward knew what he was doing behind the scenes. I found out later. When Jeb used to come and get your autograph. Yeah. And then go sell them. Go sell them. You don't remember this? No. You're looking at me like I told this story myself. I have told this story. I am. It was Dale and it was Dale, Jr. Yeah. Jeb as a kid, and honestly, I didn't mean to dilute your message about all the great stuff you're doing with your foundation. But like Jeb, when I realized how awesome of worker he is and how much leadership potential. I still have this in the back of my mind where he, as a kid, he used to go into the bus

lots, into the motorhomes, knock on doors, get the drivers to autograph. That only happened one time, Mike. And Brandon McReynolds was involved with it too. Yeah, they both were doing it. So they're selling y'all's autograph. And once we found out, it's like, no, that day. That's hilarious. I can't believe you don't remember because I remember being in the bus and him knocking on the door

and you signing it. You did this. You did this. You signed the thing and then you went, I know what you're doing. I did. Really? Are you there? Yeah.

And yes. And he was making some money off of it. Oh, hell yeah. So the question was, did you know that was going on? Not till later, but that was the last time. It was that evening. Oh, okay. So that day.

Oh, yeah. It was after practice. It was that, you know. Okay. So were you impressed? or are you mad? No, I wasn't impressed. He probably wasn't too happy.

Well, first of all that, we're in the heck out of Dale. That was in day, you know, Dale's heyday, right? The whole sports, really. I mean, what I was talking about earlier. Why in the heck of y'all going over there, where hell out of Dale?

It was more than just Dale, though. There was others. There was others. But, I mean, man, they, so I caught the very end of it, Dale, and there was a line forming. Yes. That was, that wanted your stuff,

They're line for them and they wanted Gordon stuff. And Jeb was out there, and he had to have been, like he created some demand? Eight or ten. Oh, he had a, he had a, he had a whole thing, a business going on at the fence line. It's a pretty good idea. It's a great idea.

I mean, knowing all about all those Hellion kids that have been through that bus lot of, you know, Jeb was the one that was smarter than all over them. Man, look at, uh. He would go at driver intros too and get them. Hustle. Yeah. Had a hustle. Yeah, it was a hustle.

At Michigan. right after practice Tommy Tommy said NASCAR wants to see you and I'm still practicing and the only reason they didn't stop me in practice because it was getting ready to end

Jeff and Mark Martin's boy were throwing water balloons outside the bus lot at some campers Oh my God and one old gentleman probably didn't

think nothing else The balloon had hit his motorhome window, and he's saying they broke my window, broke my wonder. So I get escorted out there and have to meet this guy, and, of course, he had a broken wonder, but I'm like, sir, there's no way in the world his water balloon broke the window. That went on. So, I mean, it was no telling during the practice and all,

what the heck them kids would do doing, you know, and driving the golf carts. I bet he got his tail chewed on. what are you doing listen but this is why i love how much success he's having because i mean he is such a good guy um and and just such a hard worker and you know things that we do like he and i working on another project together and he's the one that's calling me all the time saying all right where are we at with this stuff you know and and man i just love that about him and i think that you raised him with that same work ethic and you should be commended and that's why i also

think that you should be congratulated and feel good about his success because man when he wins that race this year at Talladega my goodness did you were you there no where you were watching on TV I was in my basement because I can't watch it with my wife particularly at Talladega Daytona and she's not bad as Jeff's wife but I know me but uh what was your reaction though well every time that um it rained I like I lost two races at Darlington from rain so I was I was a little concerned about the rain but when I went upstairs to ask my wife she was screaming so I Jeb had the race had been called like a minute before I even could compute it with her screaming right around now yeah my good friend Chris Baines from Halifax County he's he's one of

the top maintenance guys at Daytona and he got the phone to Jeb so we could say hey to him how's that but man I've been lucky you know my daughter, Sarah, she's got, I got two grandchildren. She just got a great job with the Martin agency today for the second time because she's been raising kids. So Jeb has got a good work ethic. Ashton, you know, is in college and this crazy virus. Hope that a school and will be able to get back to something.

But I've been lucky. My three kids, none of my lazy. Can you imagine if he had a lazy kid? How long did last? He didn't have a little stay around. He wouldn't have a little. Well, man, it's been a great conversation, Ward. I appreciate you coming all this way to spend some time with us.

People have been asking us to get you on this show for over a year now. They've been begging for you to come on, so they're going to be thrilled to hear you. Well, thank you. Thanks for having me, and I think it's probably the longest we've talked, Dale. So let's stay in touch more, man. All those things I said about you and your family, I really mean that you've done a great job for the whole sport and for yourself too, which is perfect. Well, I've always appreciated you and thought the world of you.

And just good to see you still out there. I follow along with your social media and keep up with you, and you seem like you're having a good time and enjoying your life. Things are going great with your family, like you mentioned. And we wish you the best. Thank you. Yes, sir. Ward Burton on the Dale Jr. Download.

Well, we finally made it to my favorite part of the show. I'm asked Jr. brought to you by Xfinity. Ask Jr., this will be different. We have questions submitted to Exfinity Racing on Twitter by drivers, right? Are these Cup guys, Exfinity guys? All Xfinity drivers. Well, I saw a couple of Cup guys asking some questions, so I wasn't sure. But anyways, I love this.

I can't wait to hear the questions that they have, and it should be a lot of fun. I believe there'll be some Smoored Alec stuff in there because most of those guys got pretty good personality. So let's have it. First question from Ryan Vargas. When you were a rookie in the Xfinity Series, how did you try to leverage expectations in prep,

petted the tracks you've never been to? Ryan is a super cool guy. Yep. I'm glad he chimed in. I knew he would. We had a deal the other couple years ago. We were speaking to some of them young drivers, and he was the first one to come up to me

after the conversation introduced to himself, so I've been paying attention to him ever since. But anyways, that's what you need to do. do what Brian did. Introduce yourself to everybody you meet in the industry. And they'll start tuning in, paying attention to you. Anyways, the question was, what was the question? When you were a rookie, how did you leverage, like, expectations and prep heading into tracks you've never been to?

Well, I've raced on our racing when I was going somewhere that I never been to. Just run a lot of laps at that track, especially the road course stuff. You know, watching races, watching video, watching in-car camera, get an in-car. camera of a driver who won or run well and watch his video and listen to his throttle and listen to see his steering what he's doing what he's fighting and where he's lifting and things like that I mean that's all pretty straightforward stuff I'm sure everybody's probably clued into already in terms of expectations I mean you're just going to put so much pressure on yourself you're going to have this idea of where you think you need to finish should finish

but basically when we had practice you could drive the car and go okay by the end of the you know by by the time the race is starting i think this car is it can finish in x place right and if we finish better than that that'll be good if we don't finish as good as that i'll be disappointed that's how i usually did that and i did that every weekend up through my entire career i'd have an idea of where i thought the car could finish before the race started and that would kind of be my target for for being having some personal satisfaction or being happy about, is that a word satisfaction? It is now.

Being happy about what you did, right? Or being disappointed. So anyways, you know, I don't know, I'm not going to give anybody advice, but that's basically what I did. Without practice, I don't know how you do that. I think maybe in the first 10 or 15 laps, you figure out what kind of car you got and start thinking about where you think you should finish. I just did that.

I couldn't. It was a habit of mine. that I did. And when things go better than you expect, then it's a good feeling. Next question from Chase Briscoe. You can run any car at any track, and that's it. Chase is a cup guy.

I wonder if he's doing an X-fony race. That's why he was able to. It doesn't count. It does count. If he's part-timer. You can ask. I like it. I like this question.

You can run any car at any track, and that's it for the rest of your life. What do you pick and why? Probably a late 70s car, maybe the Chevy Laguna. And probably, you know, there's a lot of tracks I'd love to go to once to try them, see them, Texas World Speedway and stuff like that. But probably Old Atlanta before the dog leg. That's a good answer. It looked like a lot of fun.

I could run it the rest of my life. Yeah, late 70s, old Atlanta. All right. Jesse Little, what was the most recent book you read? I read a, I think the Gary Ballou book is the last one I read. Hot Shoe. Yeah, Hot Shoe. Maybe I've read one since then, but I think it was.

Will Cronkite? Yeah, I read some. I did read Will Cronkite's book. So I read Will Cronkite's book. He was a car owner in the Cup Series in the 70s and worked on race cars. Great book. Worked with Dad. So there's a lot of that in there.

So Will Cronkite's book and Hot Shoe. Gary Balloo's book. Two great books. Two great races books. Yeah. Next question from Tommy Joe Martins. Who was the guy that always raced you the hardest, but then was like buddy, buddy, no big deal outside the race car? Matt, Kenseth. So Matt, we were great friends, really good friends, and I'd like to think we still are great friends today. He gives me a hard time for not staying in touch with him. But I haven't gotten to. a text from him in a while either, but that's his sense of humor.

But we get on the racetrack and, you know, five laps ago, three laps ago, we could be running for 15th. And he will squeeze you off the corner and I would go up to him, I'd be like, man, I had to lift, you know, and that cost me like three spots that last lap. Thanks.

And he's just, he doesn't apologize for it. But, I mean, we would have a great friendship ship off the racetrack, but when you were on the track with him racing, he was, he wasn't going to do you any favors. You better not expect any. He didn't race dirty, and he didn't run, he didn't run into me, but he was definitely racing, you know, for himself. Nothing wrong with that. Stefan Parsons. What was the best fight you've seen at Hickory Speedway? Any fighting stories?

Oh, man, I think it was him. and his dad. I think that's why he brought that up. So I was at Hickory watching Josh Barry race and William Byron. He used to race our late model. And somewhere along in the middle of the race, I guess he got in a little dust up on the track. And I saw, I mean, literally like three haulers down,

there's Phil Parsons duking it out with some guy. They're wrestling around. Just a little short little hustle. And it was funny, man, because I was, you know, You wouldn't think Phil Parsons would let himself go to that space. He went to that place that night. Phil did. And he did.

Wow. That would be fun to watch. I don't know. I've not seen many fights at the racetrack, but that was one I witnessed. It was a quick, but it was aggressive. All right. One more from Brandon Brown. When you raced road courses, did you change your hand positioning on the steering wheel,

or did you still keep them together? I need a watch. I think I probably kept them at, like, you know, 10 and 2. I need to watch because I don't know, because I don't know I'm doing it. I don't know really when I'm driving. I don't really pay attention to anything I'm doing. And I don't do that, Mike. But on the ovals, so on the ovals, he's talking about this.

So Mark Martin used to do this. But when I turn the wheel, I move. Basically, I kind of drive like this on the straightaway. And then when I go into the corner, I move my right hand to my left, next to my left hand and pull a car like this, steer the car like this in the corner, and then back to here on the straightaway. I mean, even at a short track, like over and over and over. And it just, I don't even, I'm doing it, I'm doing it unconsciously.

But at the-unconscious. Uh-oh. That's trouble. Subconsciously, what is the word I'm looking for? Maybe instinctually. Instinctually. He's out, y'all. I'm not unknowingly doing it.

So, anyways. I know what you meant. Brandon Brown also had a question for Water Coolerdale. Oh. He wanted to know. That was hilarious. Who do you gossip about the most of junior motorsports? That was a question for Water Coolerdale.

We used to be Stephen. He was always giving us something to watch on the security cameras. That's right. He was always running into something, crashing something, doing something that was going to end up on the end-of-year video at Christmas party. Martin maybe Who do we gossip the most about I mean Martin Anytime there's an IT failure

Like our internet slows down And we go look for Martin He's on a sailboat Yeah I don't know I could probably gossip the most I mean the most I'm talking The most people

The most I talk about The most person I talk about The you know is probably drivers Like I'm always talking to Kelly Or LW Or Ryan Pemberton about our drivers, and it could be any of them. And then crew chiefs are right below that, right?

Just trying to keep the harmony and what's going on, what guys need, what they need for me, how people are doing, what people's attitudes of being, how this driver's doing, where's his head at, that kind of stuff. Great questions. Appreciate everybody. Appreciate all Xfinity drivers. Be it a part of this, man. You know, guys got things to do, and they're busy.

So thanks for, thanks for chiming in. Thanks to Xfinity for supporting this part of the show. Ask Jr. on the Dale Jr. download. Well, that part of the show seems to always go by too quickly, Mike. Yeah, it does always seem to go too quickly, but not nearly as fast as Xfinity X-Fi. Well, X-Fi is more than just fast, Mike. It's also reliable and powerful, meaning everyone can do more of what they love with Faster internet.

That it is. With Xfinity X-Fi, you can do more of what you love with faster internet. You and your crew, you can stay connected with Wi-Fi coverage. It delivers the speed your device is neat. And remember, everyone, send your Asked Junior questions to At Xfinity Racing on Twitter. Before we hit the road, thank you, Exfinity, proud premier partner of NASCAR. Hey, what's up everybody? Brett Griffin is in the house making a guest appearance of the Dell Jr. download, I think.

And if you're listening, make sure you listen up. Hey, this is TJ Majors, and we have a new episode of Doorbumper Clear out right now, breaking down the races from Sonoma and Mid Ohio. What's up, Freddie Craft here? We talk Ross Chastain taking a shortcut, Ryan Priest pulling out on the track in front of everybody coming, A.J. Almondinger's three-wide restart move, and much more. Including our crazy fans showing us lots of love on what started here on the DJD,

but is now on DBC Reaction Theater. That's my favorite part of the show. obviously. Go listen to Door Bumper Clear right now, available wherever you get your podcast. Are you sure that's your favorite part? It's always my favorite part. It's pretty good for me here lately. As soon as Joey nudges somebody, bump somebody, we do something. It'll go right back. So this week. I hope. I hope it's for a million dollars, too. Thanks to Ward Burton. Yes, Ward was great. I love that guy. He was awesome, and he straightened out a lot of things that Jeff had incorrect.

I was really glad that he was able to come in here and straighten out some of that stuff that Jeff. Jeff Burton was just kind of all over the place. That's not how I took it. I took it as whatever Jeff said. I'm just so thankful that Ward would come in here and set the record straight. I think Ward looked at it as an opportunity to kind of mince offenses. Jeff just screwed things up sometimes. He's your colleague.

Don't say that about him. Anyways, you guys, I hope you enjoy the show and we'll see you next week. This bit of badassery was made by. Dirty Moe Media Dirty Moe!