The Dale Jr. Download - 360 - Lyndon Amick: Freedom on the Other Side

Episode Date: October 5, 2021

Nothing is more powerful than redemption. Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with friend and former NASCAR racer, Lyndon Amick, about his life as racecar driver, combat soldier, and his miraculous journey to pick up the pieces of a broken life.A young man from a family of South Carolina chicken farmers decided to take the path of most resistance. He wanted to be a racecar driver. Sugartit Speedway in the Palmetto state fueled his desire to give racing a try. And boy did he try. The big boy stuffed himself in a go-kart with the goal of being fast. His ascension into the upper ranks of the sport came just as fast. Fast forward some race wins and a championship in the Goody's Dash Series, and suddenly the Amick Family Farms had their very own NASCAR Xfinity Series team. And with it came struggles. A new team, a driver trying to learn. Although he showed glimpses of raw talent, things never seemed to work out for Lyndon Amick.Shortly after the birth of his first son, a race at Talladega was the pivot point for Lyndon Amick. While spinning backward in a massive 20-something car crash, he decided that he was done. Lyndon walked away from the life of a NASCAR driver. He decided to enlist in the military. His life switched from race days, interviews, and appearances to drill sergeants stripping down his being to build the perfect soldier. His mindset was clear. Not only did he want to serve his country, he wanted to fight for it.The journey took him across the globe to Afghanistan. While there he learned the mindset of what it took to stay alive amidst the everyday reality that each day could be his last. No day more apparent than when his company ended up in a fire-fight. With bullets forming a canopy of smoke above him, Amick turned into the proven leader.But when the combat stopped, he admits the realities that faced him when he got back home, were not so fulfilling. What he escaped for was something he now had to face, himself. An imperfect husband, a dead-beat dad. Simply put, his marriage was broken and his life was about to come off the rails. Just how did the story transform from darkness to light? Lyndon shares his soul with Dale Jr. and co-host Mike Davis. He reveals the inner workings of the healing that put back the pieces of his broken life.Before Lyndon came into the studio to share his incredible journey, Dale Jr. admitted to some faults of his own. His came in the NBC broadcast booth. The two-time Daytona 500 winner and rookie play-by-play broadcaster asked producer Matthew Dillner to point out his mistakes calling Saturday's NASCAR Xfinity race at Talladega Superspeedway. The result provided a look into Dale's life as a broadcaster, his goals, and some laughter too.Dale Jr. also brings up his disappointment with the rain-filled weekend and race postponement at Talladega Superspeedway and offers a solution that can be done within the fine print of a race weekend.Dale, Mike, Matthew, and Leah pull the curtain back on the Texas World Speedway episode and what made the visit to America's only Lost Superspeedway such a moving explore for the team.Recently, daddy-Dale-Jr. had a day alone with his youngest daughter Nicole. What sort of adventures did they get into? Well, let's just say it ended with a hot air balloon in the buffalo pen on his property. Ask Jr brings out that story and so much more.Everyone on the entire Dale Jr. Download team agrees, this is an episode full of amazing moments, but most importantly, one that a lot of us can learn from. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

is a production of Dirty Mo Media. Dirty Mo! Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. Welcome back to another episode of the Dale Jr. Download, episode 360 here, live from the Bojangles Studio at Dirty Mo Media. With me is my co-host, Mike Davis. Matthew Dillner is here, Liz here, coming off of an amazing weekend at Talladega. So let's jump right into it.

We had Cinderella Stories, first-time winners, Tate Fulgerman in the Truck Series, Brandon Brown in the Xfinity series, and Bubba Wallace finally wins his first cup race. What a career it's been. A lot of ups and downs for all of those guys. Bubba included, pretty historic win. First time that a black race car driver has won in the Cup series, and I don't even know how long. I know Wendell Scott was the last one to do it. Was it 63 or 65?

Jacksonville. And so there's been drivers in the series that have tried to win races, but it's been a long time. Bubba finally made that happen. I think I knew it was coming eventually when you get paired up with an owner like Denny Hamlin, Michael Jordan. You know that team is destined for greatness. You know that team is going to eventually put winning cars on the racetrack. They did this Sunday.

Bubba did such a great job, did everything right to put himself in position for when the rains came. Everybody knew the rain was coming. You heard it over the radio if you were watching the broadcast. All the teams were alerting their drivers. that it was any minute. And so the intensity ramped right up. And everyone was trying to position themselves in the front of the field because of that

rain and the potential that the race was going to be over. I was a little surprised that it continued to rain. The sales were popping up and they were really small. And then, you know, we had that one little delay where it rained in one and two and we dried the track and we were ready to go. And I thought we were going to have a similar situation like that. But once it started raining, more and more. More and more rain started building around the track,

and it continued to rain the rest of the day. So NASCAR waited around and made the right call eventually to send everybody home, get everybody out of there. We were all itching to get back home after being stuck there one day after being rained out on Sunday. So that was all kind of frustrating. You know, the races on NBC, the big network on Sunday. That's right.

Massive audience watching our race. We had grandstands packed full of people. Yeah. Okay. Slam. The place was insane. Campers everywhere. It was a great crowd.

And NASCAR called the race on Sunday. I was living. Livid, huh? Yeah. You're standing in that booth and it's not raining. They had to call the race. Evidently, the idea is if they can't finish the entire race, can't guarantee a ticket buyer.

sitting in that grandstands, if they can't guarantee them that they'll be able to finish the race in its entirety, they cannot start it. If you, you know, and that's so frustrating because everyone in the grandstands, they don't know that. Explanation of the purpose and the reason why we're going to not run this race today. That was so frustrating to have to watch all those people right below us, right? We're in the booth, right? And we're looking right down at the grandstands. 80% of the crowd left. Yeah.

Didn't come back for the next day. So, you know, I think we could make some changes to our protocols. And instead of having to guarantee a ticket buyer that you're going to see there's going to be an attempt at running an entire race, we should probably make, you know, be able to guarantee an attempt to run beyond halfway. We make that official anyways in these. rain outs just like we had Monday. If you can do that, you can certainly rewrite the fine print to where we can start that race and at least get beyond halfway. I think fans would have been fine if the race started on Sunday, knowing that we were unlikely to see 188 laps, right? I think they'd

have been fine with that. I would take that a step further and say, even if they know you can't get to halfway, if you can say that you're going to make every effort to start the race, so you can see laps at speed. Yeah. Cars on the track, even if it's 20 to 30, and you know darkness is going to make it where it's going to have to get, you know, postponed until tomorrow.

At least you saw laps at speed. Because I had a friend of mine from high school going to her first race at Talladega on Sunday, and she was so excited, and she never got to see even a laugh at speed. I got to be clear. This is not me attacking NASCAR. This is the rule, all right?

And we've known this for a long time. Rarely are we ever put in the situation that we were put in Sunday where we're pushed up against darkness. The late start times create that issue. That's more of a network deal. NASCAR doesn't really choose these late start times, so you can't bash NASCAR for the late start time. That's a network choice. That's where they want to be for the best audience that they can get on Sunday.

So what I think could happen is if we're not going to have an earlier start time, absolutely change the protocol, change the rules. change that fine print to where at least you're going to start the race no matter what. And if we have to stop the race and not, if it gets dark, it's too dark and we're not halfway, we're going to start them again in the morning and finish this race. If it's beyond halfway and it's too dark, we'll declare a winner just like we did an Xfinity race for Brandon Brown. So you've got people coming from all over the place. Are those people going to buy a ticket to come back with that being a potential result?

Leaving unsatisfied, boy, it's hard to get them back. Yes. It's hard to get them back. I mean, you've got to earn them back. That was the best crowd that I had seen there in a couple years. We had just earned them back. Is it time Talladega puts lights up? I don't know. I mean, that's a solution to the 500-mile deal. I don't know how well you would be able to see, even with the track lit from a grandstand seat. This place is two and a half miles. It's bigger footprint-wise than Daytona.

I don't know that if I had a ticket, a grandstand's ticket, that I would visually be able to see the action as well as I can during the afternoon. No, I see your point on that. Well, the only person that matters right now in this whole conversation is the guy that's buying the ticket. Not the person tuning in, not the industry, not the drivers, unfortunately. I know they want to matter. The guy in the camper, the guy on top of the camper, the guy in the grandstand seat, that's who we're trying to, we got to take care of that first. and everything else falls in behind. Anyways, let's move on.

I had a little broadcasting responsibility on Saturday for the Xfinity race. So this is a thing. I had a lot of mistakes, all right? You were play-by-play. Yeah, play-by-play. You're right. I'm doing play-by-play.

Every time I do play-by-play, I make so many big mistakes, right? They feel massive. They feel huge. I bet. There were a couple dozes in this, at least the first stage, I remember. Every time I do play-by-play,

I come out of there going, damn it, I didn't get better or I didn't improve enough. It didn't get easier. I want to do it more, but I need to get better, right? And so I was a little frustrated. You go and talk to somebody and everybody tells you, oh, no, yeah, it sounded good. Sounded good. Well, I'm like, no, you remember that one thing? Well, you know, the viewer at home doesn't know that that's a mistake.

You know it is because you know what you did and said, but the viewer at home doesn't realize. So I wanted to do a little test. Okay. Okay. I reached out to Matthew, and I said, Matthew, I want you to listen to the first stage. I want you to pull audio clips of the moments where you think I made a mistake. Oh, wow. Okay.

And so he's going to play a couple audio clips, and I've got, I think, two moments that I'm aware of. So you found three? Well, technically four, but, but yeah. Okay. You pulled what you think is a mistake. You pulled what you think is a mistake. I think. And let you guys listen to them.

Yep. I've got a couple. and we'll see if they match up. Go ahead. The pace cars dived on the pit road. About to go green here. The field comes. 40 cars roll through the trial.

We'll under control the flagman Matt Lydick. And he waves the green flag as we're underway and running for today's Sparks 300. Oh, man, was that terrible? That was so bad. So, all right. Yeah. I mean, other than being a little choppy, did you get his name? Is his name pronounced right?

I tried to look it up. It is. It is. Okay. Let's let me explain the whole thing. All right. That was absolutely, that was one of the big mess-ups that I had in my mind. Well, it was just the start of the race, a big deal.

It's not a big deal. It's a key moment of the race. And I called, earlier in the week, I called the director of Xfinity series. And I said, man, you know, when I was young, we knew the flagman's name. and he was part of the play. He was an actor, right, in the play. We need to get back to those things. We need to know that flag man.

I like that, because, yeah, I couldn't even look it up. We need to know that flag woman. We have females flagging races. And we need to know their names, right? So I called the director of the Xfinity series, I said, I'm going to say the flagman's name. So it's Matt Lightick. I write it down.

So when I do play-by-play, the week before, I watch the last racer, two at that track. I write some notes about things that I like, things that I hear the other announces talk about, but I also watch an old race, usually with Ken Squire. They were great about in the past mentioning the flagman. And so I had a little copy. Basically, I had a paragraph that I had written, and I wanted to sort of stay close to that paragraph as the cars are coming off turn four. One of the things that Ken always said that would fire me up as a listener was the pace car dives on the pit road. I said dived. So anyways, that's where cookie started crumbling

and part. All right. I was trying to make sure that I was going to pronounce Matt's name properly. It's L-Y-D-I-C, and that could be Liddick, Lidic. I don't know, right? But I know that it's Lidic, and I think I had that consciously going in circles in my mind. And so when I got to his last name, I stumbled all over the top of it, right? And then as I knew I had made that mistake, I'm replaying that over and over in my mind, and that's why the rest of that came out so awful.

So absolutely. In an attempt to try to do something cool in old school, I butchered the entire sort of coming to the green moment. Just a bad lap. Huh? Just a bad lap. You had a bunch of other laps to make it up. No, no, no.

It's the start of the race. It's a key moment unacceptable. So there's nothing you guys can say in this room that's going to make me feeling different. Well, you're not a play-by-play guy by trade. I just told you there's nothing you can say. I do have a question, though. Do you guys rehearse the beginning of the race? Do you all never rehearse?

Sometimes we rehearse and sometimes we don't. We don't ever, ever rehearse the green flag. We rehearse our own camera. Got it. Right. So when we came on camera, I went to Burton and I went to LaTart and I said, all right, Burton, you're 30 points to the good on the cut line. What are you doing?

How are you going to run this race? Letart, you're 30 points under the cut line. How are you running this race? That was how we did the on camera. We didn't rehearse that. We didn't have time. Okay. You didn't rehearse that.

Yeah, some days we rehearse, some days we don't. We came on and we did our own camera and we didn't rehearse that. The producer was happy with it. He said, man, that was great. You guys did good. Anytime we do something and then go to commercial, the producer may say that was good. He may say, guys, not enough energy, or that was terrible. He may say nothing, but he commented that he liked the on camera.

So we're feeling great about ourselves, all right? Anyways, come into the green flag. First major mistake. Let's hear the next one. Completing lap 8, 53 miles into this race. We'll be back with more. Yep, there you go. I was off by about 40 miles.

30 miles there. That, they expanded Talladega big time. Matthew, you're two for two here. All right, so that was the second one where I know I made a major mistake. I like you guys in the booth afterwards. I wanted to crawl under a rock. So that was another, that was another Ken Squire thing. I'm watching the 1980 Daytona 500, middle of the week,

preparing for this weekend. And Ken Squire would always say the lap and the mileage. You know, 50 laps to go, 120 miles left. Or going to commercial, 90 laps in, 188 miles. Right. The Daytona 500. You know, he always, and we never do that anymore. We never use mileage.

I thought, you know, that's a cool way to drive home the distance. You know, we say laps all the time, but a lap at Martinsville and a lap at Talladega are different. That's right. All right. Yeah. Five laps into Martinsville, two and a half miles, right? Which is, you know, anyways, I just thought it was a neat thing to say or do some to add, add a little bit of personality to it.

Funny thing. So I'm sitting there in the booth, getting ready. I go up to the booth about an hour and a half before the race. So you get up there and you're preparing. They let you read the car. They let you read all of the ads. Like, hey, NASCAR scanner. Listen to drivers.

do it do it right they we read through all of that stuff so that stuff is fresh on our mind there's no tongue twisters or anything anybody you know know if you need to know some kind of pronunciation if we're doing something for Monday night football or whatever or typically with hockey there's a lot of difficult names to read right anyways we go through all that stuff so you're up there an hour and a half or an hour before the race and I was standing there and we got some stat guys that help us with statistics and stuff so that we know what we're talking about they make us sound really really smart but I was sitting with Russell, who's my stat guy on this particular day, and I said, hey, Russell, I want to say at some point in the race, the laps and the miles. I said, why don't we do, can you print me out a column,

you know, a page that says every lap and what mile that lap would be? And he did. But he printed all the columns so close together. It looked like a, just a page of numbers. So he printed it in columns on a standard piece of paper. So it was like one column was lap 1 through 50. then 55 or 51 through 100, right, and all the columns with the mileage next to them, and then the next column and the next column. But they were very close together. And so I couldn't, when I said, we're standing there and the producer goes, going to commercial five, four, three, and I'm like, oh, okay, we're going to commercial,

lap, lap eight of, and I'm looking on this page for the number, where's the mileage? Where's the mileage? 53. Part eight. I just spit out a number because he's going. two, one, zero. I'm like, and so I take the page

and I give it to Russell, we're under commercial, I'm feeling like a complete freaking that. I hand it to Russell and I said, Russell the columns are too close together. So he printed me out another page, spaced them out, drew some lines between them. And then I got, you know, we moved on. Those were the two

major, major freaking mistakes that I was so pissed off at myself for at the end of that race. And absolutely, livid with myself when it happened. But you said you found a couple more. So let's listen. I just found one more.

Well, it's actually two of them. I combine them, but this is my favorite of them all. I like this one. You're watching NASCAR Xfinity Series playoffs action from Talladega. Telecast is presented to you by Blue Emu. NASCAR and NBCSN is brought to you by Blue

Emu Microfoam, the official pain relief foam of NASCAR, soft on skin, strong on pain. What animal is it? What animal is? E-M-U? I don't know. Is it an animal?

Yeah. Like Blue E-M-U. It's not like a cow. Blue E-M-M-U. I had no clue. I didn't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know why, but I giggled. Oh, Hurtle, play it again. Because you're saying that he mispronounced it. Yeah. I miss pronounced emu. You said E-Mu. Yeah, which is like an internet cow. Play it one more time.

You're watching NASCAR Xfinity Series Playoffs Action from Talladega. Telecasts presented to you by Blue Emu. Yeah. So it's pronounced emu? Yeah. So the animal is like an emu. I didn't know it was an animal. What's an, what's an, what's an emu?

It's like a, a bird. A bird? No, it's like a big bird. Really? Oh, I thought it was like an alpaca. An emu is like an ostrich. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Oh, I'm even wrong about what it looks like. I mean, I had no clue. Yeah, it's a little many ostrich. Well, then I mispronounced that wrong the entire race. That doesn't buy. bother me at all because I mispronounce a lot of I did it during the cup race I said something they

people hate it when I say the word mirror and so I was like he's looking at the mirror and as soon as I said it I was like oh that's definitely got them stirred up they're all they're heading to read it now if the producer doesn't tell you to pronounce it any other way then you don't have anything to correct and another one to Toyota oh yeah Toyota yeah yeah but you say Toyota I say tow Yoda. Not because they get towed. Not because they're often... No. What about Yoda? Do you have an affinity for Yoda? That's how I say. Yoda's great. Yeah, I love little baby Yoda especially. So anyways, that one doesn't bother me as bad, but

appreciate you being thorough and I'm surprised you didn't find more. No. But yeah, so there was a couple big, big, big mistakes. We get through stage two okay. Stage three was a little better. We finished the race and, yeah, I don't got any more. more play-by-play this year. I'm not even, so I went out and I'll take the blame, all right, for me doing the play-by-play this year because I went and asked for it. I said, I want to do play-by-play, give me as much as you can give me, you know, maybe three to five races would be awesome.

So they gave me what I asked for. I'm not ready for it. I'm trying to, I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get a little, I'm moving a little too fast, I think. This is my opinion. So if you look at the timeline of Ken Squire's career, right? Anybody, right? Ned Jarrett.

All those guys, they pay their dues through the ranks of radio and track announcing, all types of different jobs, right? All types of roles, right? I just, I've never had any experience in a broadcast booth until 2018. Yeah. And so maybe play by play is something that I should probably be waiting into. a few more years down the road. While I'm excited and happy that I got a chance to do it

because it's terrifying and it's exhilarating and it really helped me appreciate just how great that Rick Allen is. It really helped me, I already like Rick a lot. We're great friends. I already think he does an amazing job and he's kind of the glue that keeps us together. But it really helped me appreciate

how difficult his job is, how good he is at it. and how necessary he is in the booth. We all have a role, and it helped me really appreciate his. But I'm not going to actively pursue it. If they want to give me more races, it's on them. It's their idea. It's because they see something they want to continue to develop. But if they don't, I'm not going to be too bothered by it.

So that's kind of where I am today. I've changed my mind every day on Play-Bo play. But it's so scary. And rightfully so, because you, you're going to make not only scary because you're on live TV and you've got all these things you've got to say and responsibilities as a play-by-play to go to commercial and back. I mean, think about how to go to, Mike, go to commercial. 10, 9.

All right, everybody, we're going to be back on lap 40 of four. Three. Just don't go anywhere. We'll be back. Yeah, good job. The hell of that. That's how it happens, man. Y'all are in the middle of calling the race and all of a sudden the producer goes,

all right, go to commercial. And, you know, they give you plenty of time. But, and they tell you, we're looking for commercial. And you're like, okay. All right, quick question. But anyway, anyways, I want to finish my point real quick. Oh, go ahead. Yeah.

I really, I really enjoyed getting to do it this year. And I'm glad to say, you know, if I never do it again, I'm just glad I got a chance to understand and feel that adrenaline. It is a rush. I appreciate the self-deprecation that you brought today because, I mean, to do a segment about your mistakes is, you know, nobody really does that. So thank you for that. I think that was fun.

My second question, though, is, or my actual question is, did Sam Flood or anybody that you report to bring this up to you after the race, or is this all your own observations? My own. Nobody said, Dale, you know your mistakes. Nope. Did they tell you good job? I called my boss on the property. So Sam's my boss, boss.

but the man in charge, Jeff Minkie, he is in the TV compound, and I text him afterwards, and I said, I'd like some feedback on today, any kind from anyone. It doesn't have to be you, whoever you think could give me some feedback of any kind. And so we talked Sunday morning. He said, see me Sunday morning. And so me and him stood in the TV compound and had a good conversation, and it was very helpful. Do you think he was just giving you things that make you feel better about yourself? Or did he actually give you honest criticism?

It was very transparent and I was honest to him and he was honest with me and it was good. Good, good. It was very helpful. You know, I think I tend to be extremely, I tend to be overly self-analytical and worry way too much. I mean, I'm jealous of Lattard and Burton and Rick. They walk around and they'll do a broadcast and they just, can take that club they take they can take that damn sports code off after the broadcast and walk away from it without a care in the world and i analyze every word every moment everything i say and then

when i go home i think man was that any good do i you know did i get better or it's i i need to i don't think i can ever get i don't think i can ever fix that i don't think i'll ever get to where it doesn't it doesn't affect me that way. You know, I think that that's probably makes you more natural and more common than anybody else. I would be the same way. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they do, maybe Lattartre goes home. I'm sure they do.

Maybe once Lartre gets to loan or when Sturtt gets a loan, they think. I'm sure they don't self-criticize themselves and make it your business. They probably make that their own business. Well, that's my problem. I guess that's my problem. I wish I could just keep it to myself. To yourself. You know? But I got to make it

everybody's business. I got to go see Binky in the morning and say, hey, man, what did you think? Was that okay? I don't think that's a problem, though. All right. So, all right. Well, good stuff. Thank you.

Lost Speedways Season 2, available now on PeacottTV.com. Go to Peacock to sign up. I'm sure you guys have already seen Lost Speedway Season 1. Both of them are streaming there on Peacock TV. And one of the tracks, one of my favorite racetracks that we got to see in season two, Texas, World Speedway. I've flown over this many, many times in my life going to, going to race in Texas. Giant Super Speedway, much similar to Michigan, to Daytona, Talladega. It just, you know, it's just sitting there all these years for decades. It's giant two-mile super speedway.

What makes it unique is all the other tracks that we have on our map, all the thousands of race tracks across the country where there's, you know, there's still evidence of a racetrack on the property. They're all mostly short tracks, old drag strips, old road courses. There aren't any super speedways. This is the only one. Its demise is insane. So how does a super speedway fail, especially in NASCAR with the market we have, you know, when they build these racetracks, how in the heck is something this big?

in Texas of all places fail and we go into great detail about just what happened and just absolutely you know one of the things we talk about why it failed and and we get that right what's what's really emotional I think about it is how close the track came to being saved by the success of the sport the track fell apart right around the time when network TV was coming in when network TV came in and we started seeing more and more races throughout the season broadcast on network TV and eventually all of them broadcast on network TV. That really took the sport and swooped it up and carried it like a hurt like a tornado. And man, Texas world just barely missed that. Yeah. And so it's pretty interesting, but the discovery, you know, on the ground, I say it all the time, being on

the ground and walking around that track, that's my favorite part, going down in that tunnel, there's a tunnel that we'll show you. That was pretty creepy. I still wish we had things in our hands that would have allowed us to feel comfortable going a little further down in there. I didn't have a flashlight or anything. But I'd like to have been able to go in there

even more than a flashlight. Something a little brighter than that. Oh, thank you. That would illuminate a little further. It'd been interesting just to point it down in there and see what was up. But this tunnel goes under the racetrack into the infield.

Do you think we would have been safe? I would just like to have seen in there further. We're not going to physically go further. Oh, okay. Yeah. The ticket booth, that was pretty fun. There's a bunch of old, so I don't want to go into too much detail because I want people to watch the show. But we go in this ticket booth.

There's a lot of stuff in there from the last race that was ran there in the 90s, right? But you picked on me last week about something with Texas World about getting a blister from touching crap. You know, and I was just watching the episode. You were the first person on our explorer to touch something grody. Like what? we were in the ticket booth. Yeah. And you were like picking up the results.

Papers. Yeah. And there's old animals living in there. Animals had crawled. Probably peed all over. Tee-tee. T-teed. Yes.

So you're right. In case there's any two-year-olds. We walk up the grandstands heel, the heel behind the grandstands. And we kind of crested over this grandstand to see the track in its entirety. That was a really cool moment. We really showcased that well with some drawings. footage, which I'm really proud of. But what we learned about the grandstands and what's going on underneath the grandstands

was profound. And that made me want to get away from there as soon as possible. I felt we were in real danger because stuff is on the verge of collapse and you don't know how deep that crevice or that pit was underneath. Yeah, pretty cool. And the other part two, and this is the last thing that I'll say. So you ever, you know, you throw a bird. birthday party for your kid or something like that.

You buy cake, right? You get the cake, you bring it home. Everybody eats a little bit of cake. But no, you know, you never eat the whole cake, right? There's a little bit of cake left. Cake goes in the refrigerator, right? Yeah. You open the door, there's a cake taking up tons of room, right, in your refrigerator.

Yeah. Right, half a cake. When you walk up to Texas World Speedway, it's literally cut in half. Like a half cake, yeah. I don't see what you're saying. It's like there's a perfectly fine half a cake. then nothing. And you'll see what I mean when you take a look at this episode. But that is the that is the only way I can really describe it. And what I keep drawn, I'm drawn to that analogy

every time I think about that racetrack. Yeah. Because they removed turns one and two, and then they graded it. And it had been grasped and it looked nice. Yeah. Flat, piece of ground. And then to your left is the racetrack, the rest of it. It was just interesting, man. Pretty eerie, pretty mysterious. And I use the word romantic. a lot too when I described looking at these racetracks for some reason. Anyways, Lost Speedways, Season 2, you'll be able to watch the Texas World Speedway episode and all the rest of the episodes for season 2 and season 1 at PeacockTV.com. I'm imagining that you're listening to this, you've probably seen it.

If you haven't, go watch it. If you have, tell your friends, we'd love to get your feedback on what you thought about season 2, what you'd love to see in season 3 of Lost Speedway. All right. Time for Ask Jr. Starting stream. That sounded like an automated. It did. It sounded like, I just thought, it sounded like a ride at Disney World in Futureland where it's like, you know, a female automated starting stream.

I don't know. Oh, you didn't know. That's what you're doing your off time. It's your second job. Stream is live. It is. It's actually live. It's actually live.

This isn't a test. Are we live? Yeah. Yeah, we're alive. I didn't. I wasn't listening to y'all. Gather that. Ash Jr.

This is the Ask Junior portion of the show. Thank you guys for tuning in to the Dirtymo Media YouTube page. This is the Asch Jr. portion of the show presented by Xfinity. They're a proud premier partner of NASCAR, and I'm a customer and pretty happy about it. So if you haven't had the chance to try out X-FINITY, you should give it a go. I say this, man, in all honesty. I've had a lot of different services. over the years in my time with internet.

Xfinity hasn't let me down once. I've had some ups and downs with the others, but so far, no problems with Xfinity. Leah has all the questions that you guys have been sending in to Xfinity racing on Twitter, and hopefully we've been having some good ones every week,

and we'll surely have some more. Go ahead, Leah. Yeah, we're going to start with the most popular question of the week. Everybody wants to know the hot air balloon story. Oh, yeah. Yes. Holy smokes. Well, that's going to take up a lot of ass junior.

But, you know, if you have a kid and there's a hot air balloon in the sky, the world stops. Right. So me and Amy had taken Ila to Disney on Ice, and I was watching Nicole, who's a little one-year-old. And Ila is three, and her and Mommy are having a fun day. they went to do a little shopping and then to Disney on ice. So great. They never get out of the house. This is awesome.

I'm going to take care of Nicole. I got it. I got a list. We're going to eat. We're going to play. We're going to do bath, bedtime. I got it. I'm going to handle it.

Okay, Amy? And so she's off and we're hanging out. And I got an alert. Amazon package at the gate. Get on the cart. Drive my little bad boy buggy up to hill. I've got Nicole in my lap and we go to pick up

the package, the Amazon package. And so on our way back, we're going super slow and we're kind of taking our time because I got I got to burn some time here, you know, between feeding and bath time. And you really did plan this time.

Yeah, we're going super slow. I see a hot emberlin and she sees it. So I go as far as I can to get as close as I can, right? So it's I go to get us a better perspective. So we're sitting there watching it, and it's coming kind of toward us. And this is, you know, we don't see hot air balloons all the time,

but it's not the first time we ever seen one around the house. And I think that's cool. So anyways, starting to get a little late, and Nicole starts to get over it. So we drive back to the house, and I go inside. As I get to the house, I notice, man, it's getting really close. so I'm going inside and get my phone and take a picture of it and send it to Amy. And she'd be like, so to give her some reassurance, everything's fine. Look, we've got a hot air balloon.

We're entertained because she's worried, right? Can I do this? Can I father this? Can you be trusted my kid? I father this one-year-old for her night. I walk back outside and I'm like, wow, it's getting really close. And so, you know, I'm like, man, they're coming down. They're coming down and they're going to go buy the house, right?

They're going to go behind the house. Like I'm going to lose sight of it. But it's coming down and there's some trees over here. And I'm like, getting lower than the tree line over there. And I don't think they'll shoot right back up. So what's going on? And I'm waving. They're waving.

I run around to the corner of the house. I've got Nicole with me in my arms. And I'm like, Nicole, they're going to land in this field. And they're hollering at me. Can we land? And I'm like, yeah. And he didn't hear me. And he goes, is it all right?

I said, yes, sir, okay, it's okay. You know, I thought they must be in distress. Right. Somebody on this balloon needs to get off for whatever reason. Right. And so I'm nervous and scared for whatever the problem is, right? And so they come down in the field's kind of a bank downward. And as they're landing, their bucket is dragging and hopping and bucking.

And so that, to me, seemed like it was like a, they were in a hurry. So, right, they weren't a soft, smooth, let's land on a flat spot. They were like, get down, get down, get down, right? I'm like, man, I got to go over there. They may need somebody to call or an ambulance, I don't know what. So we get back on the golf cart and we drive over to the closest location. They're inside the buffalo pen. Oh, my gosh.

So I drive over to the fence to get close to them. I'm about 100 yards away. and I'm like, you know, hey, and they're like, hey, and we're waving, they're waving. So I'm starting to feel a little better, all right, no urgency. They're waving. And I'm like, are you all okay? He's like, is it okay if we're here? I'm like, yeah, sure.

Is everything fine? He's like, yeah. I'm like, okay. You're all just hanging out. He's like, well, we got a chase truck at the gate. Can they get in? So I told him how the chase truck could get inside. And he's like, can they get into this fence?

And I'm like, well, this is a Buffalo pen. I was like, you might, I don't know what they're going to do. I don't know any minute. They might come over to seal and try to, you know, be curious. They're going to be curious, right? And he said, I said, how fast can you get out of here? And he goes, about 15 minutes. I was like, man, you know, I don't know what they'll do.

They're all female, though. They're not as hostile or rough as males. But still, he's like, well, we'll run and jump the fence. I'm thinking they're going to tear that basket apart. Yeah. Playing with it, right? And so if you put a golf card in there, they'll flip it over, playing with it, curate pushing it.

They'll just walk around it for a while, but eventually over a period of time, they're going to toss it around. And so I was a little worried about that. The chase truck comes in, and it's the wife and the mother of the guy flying this thing. And they're like, hey, why don't we just put a little heat in that thing and raise it up and walk it, walk the basket, literally a feet or a few off the ground, and then up over the fence.

and it'll be out of the pen. So that's what they did. And I'm still thinking that they're going to scoot out of here at any minute, right? They're going to, okay, we're good to go. I don't know, maybe they need to fuel up a tank or what. And the guy's like, all right, he tells his wife, he's like, hey, grab that rope.

She grabs a rope, which is attached to the top of the balloon. She walks that way, pulls the rope. The bloom comes down. They start squeezing the hot air out of it. And I'm like, oh, we're putting it up. They're not getting out of here. No. And so I watched them roll it up.

I mean, that's a long process, isn't it? Yeah. I watched them. Well, we climbed in, took a picture. They're like, hey, you want to get in? Oh, yeah. So the picture where you were inside the? They're like, you want to get in?

I'm like, oh, of course, yeah. We climbed in the basket. I've never been around one, up close to one like that. It was enormous. Did we ever, I'll wait until you're done telling the story because I mean, now I don't even know. Why did they land there? All right. So anyways, everything's great.

Everybody knows the rest of the story. They buttoned up their program. The people that are renting the ride, taking the ride. met them. They're nice. Everybody gets in the chase truck and they're going to leave eventually, right? And so, we saw him on their way and, but I asked him, I said, so, you know, you just, why did you have to land? You just land what's going on. And he's like, we have about two hours worth of fuel to fly. And we will fly one hour. And at that one hour mark, we look for a place to get down. And today, it was your property. He's like, I knew you lived here and we felt pretty reasonable that it would be okay,

you know, that we land. And I said, all right, you know, they basically just land wherever they can, wherever there's a nice spot. And they deal with the homeowner, a landowner in that moment. I'm not a pro. And I'm sure there's some people out here that are at flying balloons and they'll tell me more about this, but the guy seemed, you know, there is some ability to steer this thing, but for the most part, it's the direction of the wind, right? And that's where the wind took them. And when their hour came up, that's where they go down. And the trace truck comes to where they are, and they load it up, and they take it home.

And I would imagine that the reason why they have two hours and they only fly one is because if they do find themselves in a situation where it's maybe difficult to find a spot to land and they're looking, an hour would go by pretty quickly. Right. And so to be able to have that extra hour of fuel is probably pretty important. And it's just smart. Anyhow, that's the balloon story. I was thrilled, man.

I told them, I said, y'all land here anytime you won't. But you might want to land in that other field where the buffalo. Where there's not buffalo. And Amy said, you can't tell Eiloh. I was like, what? Because we take all kinds of pictures of our kids. And they love watching videos of themselves, of their sister, anything, right? And I'm thinking, man, you know, this will be fun to show Ila.

And Amy's like, oh, you can't show her that. I'm like, why not? She's like, I took her to Disney on Ice and you're going to make that second place. She's going to be so upset she wasn't here for the balloon. I'm like, oh, come on. But anyways, maybe one day the balloon comes back and I was there to see it. I missed this whole thing. I didn't even know about it.

Oh, man. Yeah, I didn't even know about it. I put all kinds of effort in my Instagram story. He did a great job. Dude, there was music. Yeah, all the songs liked it, you know. Yeah, it was fantastic. That's a lot of work to do that.

It's fun. It's fun. I applaud you. Thanks. All right. I did all that with a one-year-old in my lap, yeah. Oh, you didn't wait until you put her to bed? No.

Oh, damn. All right, should we move on? Yes. Okay. Great, good question. We got time for one more. The way you tell stories. That's fair enough.

They asked, I knew you can't shortchange the story. No, you can't. Lee is about to not be able to rain it back in. She's laughing so hard. Next question from Caleb. We've all seen the interview you gave your dad in 1990 at Talladega. You asked if he's going to give you any money. And he replied, you've already spent enough down here this weekend.

My question is, what were you spending money on that weekend? Go carts. So at Talladega, right next to the interstate near the hotels where everybody stayed, There weren't bus slots and all that back then. We stayed at hotels. There was a go-kart track. You paid a ride. And we begged, all the other driver's sons, crew chiefs' sons,

there was only a handful of us. But we begged our dads every day that we could get $100 or any kind of money, a handful of money to go ride to go-carts. And as soon as we could get away from the track, we went to that go-car. And, man, we run and run, getting all kinds of crap. in our eyes following each other around, all kinds of cruds coming out of the pipes of those old motors and into our eyeballs and our teeth.

And we had a blast. Eventually we got smart and started taking bubble goggles with us, but I love that. And we had a lot of fun doing that as kids. Not every track, not every location, not every weekend had a go-car track, but Talladegas was pretty spot on. Next question from Todd Burke, Mick Jagger, Thirsty Beaver.

Thoughts? You know, I've been to that, bar once, maybe twice, definitely a top three drinking hole in Charlotte. Yeah. Just a really cool spot. I think it's cool that Mick knew the good spots to go to, you know? I think that made Mick a little cooler. So I'm a big, I like the Rolling Stones, but I got a friend of mine who is a massive Rolling Stones fan, and he showed me that picture, and I said, all right, all right, that makes him the goat. He's the goat for that. I mean, he already, He obviously is awesome at writing and singing, but going to the best bar in Charlotte.

And flew completely under the radar. It's so cool. So we know. Who's going to expect to see Mick Jagger there? I wonder. Did he go in or sit at the bar to get him a drink? He hang out, talked to the bar. Did his band go?

Yeah. I would love to have known the whole evening what happened. I read a story about the picture that was taken and the people that were on the left or right side of him. They had tickets to the concert. and they had no idea. Who took the picture? I guess one of his people. So it couldn't have that under the radar.

You got somebody taking your picture like that. All right. One more question before we run out of time. From Ryan Johnson, were you able to pay a visit to your race-winning eight card that is now on display at Talladega? Not yet. I will, but not yet.

I'll get there. The Talladega Museum is a great place to go. A lot of cool stuff in there. Anybody that goes to Talladega, if you don't stop in, you're making a big mistake, and I made one this weekend by not going. But I'll absolutely be sliding in it. We just with the rain and all the back and forth and everything,

it was difficult to get over there. But certainly something on my radar. Appreciate everybody sending in all these great questions. All right, guys, thank you for tuning in to Ask Junior presented by Exfinity, proud premier partner of NASCAR. Hope you guys are enjoying that Exfinity X-Fi Wi-Fi, super fast and very reliable. All right, guys, should we bring in our guests, Lyndon and Amic? Let's bring him in.

Look at this guy. There he is. What's up? What's up, man? Come on in, have a seat. Dude, I can't even remember. I was trying to think just a few seconds ago in the last time we saw each other. I think that I brought my drill sergeant from basic training to a Daytona 500, like I think two years after I got out.

Yeah. And I saw you briefly just for a little bit. We just talk and kind of caught up for 10 or 15. seconds. A decade. Yeah. Over a decade. Isn't that wild?

Yeah. It's wild that you brought your drill sergeant. Yeah. People usually don't like their drill sergeant. Right. And what happened is during, like, probably like six weeks into basic training, they found out that. Do you race? Yeah.

And so anyway, long story short, during basic training, it was not a good thing, not a positive thing. Not friends. It's drill sergeants. No. But after I graduated, you know, you kind of had passed the test or whatever. So we actually started having some conversations and became really close friends. And, of course, he was a big NASCAR fan, so I took him to a race. And it was funny.

One of the drill sergeants I met had painted his car like the eight bud car. And, you know, I got him, I still had some connections at a shop. And I got him all of the, you remember how we had all those stickers from the number four? Oh, yeah. So I got him the contingency packs, and he put those on his eight car. That's hilarious. Drove it around Fort Bend, in Georgia all the time. Yeah.

So Lyndon Amick, let's start from the beginning. Your family was involved in chickens and chicken houses. Yes. I can, I think, relate because Dad had four Purdue chicken houses. Right. Is that similar? Y'all. Yeah, actually.

What did your business look on? Yeah. Amick Farms was started by my great, grandfather and grandfather at the back of a pickup truck, a 55-gallon drum, and they were cleaning chickens by hand and selling them to people. And then my dad, his father, my grandfather, died tragically at like early 40s. My dad was 20. He had a heart attack at Clemson University. And they were just going to a game. He had some. Oh, they were at a game. Yeah, he had some, you know, my dad went to school there. Okay. Kind of like everybody in my family went to school to

Hemp's except for me. Was your dad in sports? Yeah, he played football there. So he's playing? And your dad passed away? I know. This was after that. My dad was like 27.

So he was already out, you know, and was helping at the business. Anyway, he died tragically. So my dad took over. And then at that time, they were processing chickens. But he, dad grew it into what, you know, it became whenever, you know, I was older and wound up. He almost went bankrupt in 77. How?

I don't know. I was just born. Things weren't going well. Yeah, just ran it. You know, I think that was probably the catalyst for him changing the product. And they started growing a bigger chicken. And that made it more profitable. And then it grew into, you know, ultimately what our family sold.

So he had a successful business. It was almost failing. And he turned it around. Yeah. Wow. Like growing bigger chickens. Growing, yeah. So basically spreading your fixed cost over a larger.

percentage of pound because it's all cents per pound in the chicken business so he kind of figured that out and you're and this is still are y'all still chicken houses or are y'all beyond that no by the time you know i was um i guess early you know 10 11 12 they had started outsourcing all the growers so we would have 40 or 50 people that had four to six houses and would grow for the company and then we would be responsible for going and catching them and kind of like what you would think of you know like some of these like Purdue yeah same kind of thing so we were growing into becoming that kind of company okay how many employees do you think y'all had it height I would say 12 to 1400 goodness yeah all right wow they sold this

business win 2006 why I think that dad realized that none of his children really wanted to do it how many children well I have one brother one sister okay my brother's nine years older and my sister seven years old. I'm the youngest. And, you know, we had grown up in the chicken business. I always, like, loved to go in and being in the maintenance department, you know, like turning wrenches and wound up, you know, I was big as a 15 year old in the maintenance department. But all those guys were like awesome guys and I just would hang out with them and wrestle with them and all the, you know, just the boss of son. And, you know, But that was, it never turned into, I love the chicken business.

Wow. I don't. It's so successful. Yeah. And if I, if I had probably been smarter, I would have gone to school and got a degree in, you know, poultry science like my brother did. And my dad did and would be doing that. I won't put it all on you. So your brother goes to school and learns about all that.

And he didn't want to do it either. Yeah. He came back and worked in the business. But I think if we would all sit around a table and be honest, it's not what he wanted to do either. And, you know, it's hard. I think that's probably what you see in one of the things we learned in many classes and trying to transition a business from one generation to the other is it's very hard in that second to third generation to see it be successful. And so I think dad at least had enough wisdom to go, okay, if it's ultimately not going to transition to the next generation,

and then we ought to entertain selling it. And I think he was to the point, too, where he's like, I'm ready to maybe do something different. So there was no, he didn't have a problem with y'all, not wanting to carry it on? No. Dad was very, very wise and very tender-hearted towards the next generation.

And he was always trying to set us up for success and always concerned about, who was coming next. And that was amazing because I don't know that I could have passed that test if, you know, think about how much he lived through, you know,

having nothing and building it back up and then your kids don't want anything to do with it. You know, that's kind of a tough, a tough thing. But his sister's son, my cousin, became very involved and actually was taking over the business starting to run the business whenever we were getting ready to sell.

So when we sold the people that bought the company, kept him, and he's still running it today. Oh, that's a great thing. Yeah. So he was, and he was there. He was the same age as my brother. He went through Clemson at the same time, got poultry science degree,

and came back and was basically doing what, you know, we should have been doing, which was being involved as a part of the company. Yeah. I would imagine chicken farming, though, helped pay for whenever the roots of racing happen. Is that? He would be correct.

Yeah, that, okay. So, because you said, I was sitting doing the math. Real estate was another thing that Dad was doing at the time, some residential developments on the coast of South Carolina that was a big part. What coast? Like Beaufort. Hell yeah, yeah. South of us.

Yeah. I have a place in South Carolina. Do you? Yeah. Yeah. I know, you know, we're going to get there because I know you got some South Carolina stuff. Yeah, absolutely. But so where was Amic Farms?

So really the middle of nowhere between, two little towns called Batesburg and Saluta in Saluda, in Saluda County, which is kind of like halfway between Columbia and Augusta, but on the west side. Were you born in South Carolina? Yes. I was born in Greenwood, South Carolina, which is another pretty small town in South Carolina, but all kind of west of I-20. Okay. So you start racing go-karts. Yeah. Why? It's funny. There's a guy who works at Hendrick, who came up with me, and he was living in South Carolina with me. And, uh, So he took me to a dirt track.

Which one? It's called Sugar Tits Speedway. Oh, what now? That was the name of it? Oh, my God. Which I was intrigued as a 15-year-old, what might be happening. And so he took to race. No wonder he got into racing.

Yeah, right. Was this a real track now? Yeah. It happened to be, and I was just, I'd never been. I grew up driving. I mean, I remember, like, at five years old, driving my siblings. to school sitting on my mom's lap like driving to school illegally at 14 you know just always driving something yeah i mean even when i was working at the farm there was one time the maintenance

department was like up a big hill from wherever the trucks were and i took the truck full of chicken to the they needed something done and i missed the gears up and i dumped that whole load of chicken out i mean thousands of dollars of chicken but anyway i'd always been driving you know so i think that when I saw driving connected with a dirt late model, it was like, whoa, this is really cool. And I was, you know, at that time I was 15. I was 6-2, 6-3, 270 pounds, just offensive linemen all day long, you know, 100%. Yeah. But he took me to the race and I was just, I was enamored with it.

And so for my 15th birthday, I asked for some money to go buy my first go-kart. How did you fit on the go-car? Yeah, that was the interesting part. And so the go-car I bought was older than I was, and the engine was, like, illegal, and it still didn't matter. So that's what I took to my first go-kart race about two weeks after I got it. Who goes with you? Brad. Yeah, that's the same guy.

Just you and him. Yeah. How old is he? He is three years older than me, so he's 47, 48. All right. But at the time, you know, he's 18. I'm 15. Yeah, we're best friends, and he introduced me to it. So he went with me, and, you know, like typical first racing, you know, my right front tire comes off in the heat race.

You know, the next time I go, that was it. Next time I go, the spark play wire comes off, and I am not smart enough to realize you don't put your own spark play wire on a go-thlet. No, you don't. I learned that lesson, race number two. And I mean, I'm literally like. Give you a shot of energy? Yeah, just a little bit. And I'm wearing like, this is in the summer in South Carolina, and I'm wearing this like Carhart overall suit.

And like I stole my brother's motorcycle helmet and have these big combat boots on. I mean, I'm already like 270 pounds. Then you add all that to it. So my go car is not doing well to begin with. That's how I started. And my dad was actually away for the summer. It was like fishing. And so my mom is watching all this happen.

And she calls him. you have to come see your son. Like, you need to see what he's doing. Because we were talking on the phone or whatever. So he comes back and he comes to a race and my mom's there. And, you know, the same kind of thing happens. Something breaks on the cart. And my mom's, like, hitting him like, what are you going to do about this?

You know? So he comes to me with this plan of if I'll make good grades, then he'll get me a new racing go-kart, you know, to go race. So I didn't make good grades, but he still got me the go-kart. And my first race and the new go cart with good equipment, I won the race. And that's kind of how it started for me. But I was always, it was always for me just like the driving, you know, it just was just I won't say it was easy because obviously I wasn't as successful as I wanted to be.

But the experience was always able to mentally, I guess, be engaged. And it just felt, it felt natural for me. me to understand the car and to know when you're getting on that right rear or whatever. It just kind of made sense. The process was learning the experiences. But the hand-eye coordination, I guess, is something. I played a lot of video games. Some people ask about, you know, what makes a great race car driver?

And there's this only way you can really word it or describe it is a raw ability. And it's in you. It's like it's a part of who you are. you're born like with this unique ability like you say to sense yeah grip grip loss limits you know all so true yeah it's crazy because you know it's not an acquired some people do acquire ability and get better over time but some people uh you know one guy that always thought had it was Shane meal yes pure speed pure roll ability right could he contain it could he could he could he sustain it and you feel like you were born with that ability that that innate it matched

yeah it did and like plug right in yes another thing like knowing where the car is like knowing your proximity to the car in front of you or beside you or whatever like all that kind of stuff even when I'm driving a street car like it's just you just kind of sense it you know you kind of feel it and I had to learn how to take whatever car I was in to the proverbial edge but knowing what that feeling was like was it was just kind of there you know it just very natural very natural to do that what do you have to do to a car to make 270 pounds go fast when i i assume that you're probably have about a hundred pounds more yeah i was running the whatever they're heavy heavy super heavy and they wait they're bad to wait yeah but they could

move their weight around. I was still plus 50. Okay. I came around 50 extra pounds on a go cart that only had eight horsepower or whatever it was. So it was different for me. And what I had to do in order to be faster,

it was different. To me, I didn't know any better, but now I can go, gosh, if I could have been equal, you know, I still did really well and still won a bunch of races, but I didn't, at the time, it just didn't even think. I did start losing weight.

Okay. I mean, me losing weight is like, the lightest I was ever was 220 pounds, you know, so it's not like I'm going to get down into some F1 class, you know. I'm already like taller than most people that are doing this, you know, and my bone structure is massive anyway. You know, it's like, why is that guy driving? Like, he's the offensive lineman, you know, 100%. How long did you run carts? Just really, I ran that partial summer, and then I ran a full season.

the next year. I rent asphalt and dirt. What tracks? The asphalt was like Palmetta Speedway, which is in Columbia. Was it an oval? Yeah, it was. Yeah. And won a bunch of races there, one couple championships. Did you ever go down in Conway?

Yeah, Red Conway one time. Yeah, great track. St. Matthews' go-cart track. And gosh, there was a fast one up in the middle part of state, and I can't remember the name of it. There was like five or six that were the state series that we ran in. And, you know, that was neat. So I'm doing dirt and asphalt. And I actually loved asphalt a lot more than the dirt.

But ultimately, I think as we were looking at things, I was already like kind of seeing, I want to move to a car, you know. And dad was like, in his mind, this is hilarious. in his mind the dash series which is what I wind up going to it's like okay it's NASCAR which is great but they're only four cylinder engines so they can't be that fast you know that's what he's thinking and you know fast forward and we're racing at Daytona going 170 miles an hour but that was his logic was it can't be that fast and it's not going to Florence Speedway every weekend And there's potential here to kind of move on.

I think he was smart enough to realize, okay, if you're going to go try to do this, let's go try to find some sort of, you know, touring NASCAR, something to do with NASCAR so that, you know, we can potentially see a path for progression. So you bought somebody's program? Yes, Johnny Smith, who had, he was moving up to the Bush series with White House and a different team. and I don't even know how we got together with him, but dad bought his operation,

which was just two cars and all the pit equipment and stuff like that. And he basically had a short track car and a super speedway car. And we ran the short track car, you know, from Jump Street and didn't change the seat. This guy's half my size, half my weight, and like my legs. Oh, and you didn't change the seat. We didn't know, like, we're just like, okay, get in the, there and drive. Okay. I mean, I look like a gorilla on a football, you know, didn't have headrests or anything, just getting there and go. And the first race I ran was Volusia County Speedway. They

wouldn't let me run Daytona because I didn't have any experience in a car. So go to Volusia County, and that's a very flat oval. So we ran 100 laps. And by the end of the 100 laps, like I feel like I'm looking out of the track, out of the right side window. Yeah. My neck is elongated by a foot and a half. Yeah. Just done. But, yeah, that's how that whole thing started. When did you, so you go to Daytona? Yeah, so that would have been, that would have been 94. So 95 was my first Daytona.

All right, so you ran all short tracks and then you go to Daytona. All right, are you, what was the biggest track you'd been on since before Daytona? Probably Bristol. Okay. So when you get to Daytona and you pull in, You'd been there before? You've been to Daytona 500? Any race there?

I didn't go to any races, but when we raced at Belushi County, I went to the speedway. He slid over there? Yeah. So when you pull in there and look around, you're thinking, oh my guy.

It just, yeah, it doesn't get any better. You know, I had gone to a couple races at Rockingham just to watch because I was, you know, in racing. But, yeah, when you go to Daytona inside, there's nothing like you. What was your, do you remember how you were feeling

when you were getting ready to pull out of the garage and go on to the pit road to get out on the track for the first. time. Yeah, completely, you know, wet my pants kind of moment, you know, because you're just like, everything is so bigger than life, the pit road, the garage stalls, you know, everything about it. The Unicow 76 fill up with gas spot.

You're just like, all of this is all top in. Yeah, you're just like, this is the greatest thing in the world. I mean, you're at Disney World. When you pull, when you're going down the back straightway with your foot on the gas, were you thinking, were you thinking about like, how is this thing going to stick in the corner? How does it stay in the track? Yes.

everything is all like sensory overload you know it's like the first time you'll get anything for the first time it's always you're and you're you're as a race car driver you're already kind of sensory overload because you're always listening feeling hearing and sensing 24-7 like a data computer you know always absorbing but yeah but none of that's working whenever you're going around Daytona for the first time you're just like

it's great it's overload who's responsible for your dash program and setting the cars up and so forth? Well, the beginning was really just Brad and a couple other guys. How things work with just Brad and a couple guys? Second race out, qualified second. You know, when you talked about, remind me about that, but when you talked about your dad, you know, coming to you at Bristol and giving you instruction,

like I didn't have anybody. You know, because in the Dash series, for sure if it's all cutthroat. Like nobody's going to help you do anything. So I just jump in there and go as fast as I possibly can over my head, every lap. I mean, that first season that I ran dashed, qualified second there at Florence, and then qualified second the next week. And then from there on for about five races, I wrecked every single time at qualifying,

just because I'm just like over my head, don't know any better, and driving as hard as I possibly can. You know, just on the edge of spending out, basically every time you go around the racetrack. So it went as good as it could have been for, you know, equipment that needed some love and a driver who has never been in a car before. But, you know, ironically, I had a lot of good finishes. You know, I was in the top 10 a lot and really just learning that car. But I think it was the next year, or maybe even that year we hired Richard Mash for, Taylor'sville.

Yeah. And the greatest decision we ever made because Richard is, you know, was an amazing crew chief, engine builder, both and the same guy. And just helped really calm me down. You know, he's very good at doing that. How did you do that, by the way? How did you hire him? Because hadn't he worked with a bunch of drivers, like big time, like Harry Gantt?

I think, if I remember correctly, I think David, he was working for David Huddo. David Hoodo won the championship. and then was moving up to Bush. And so he didn't really have somebody. He needed a job. Yeah. So we just picked him up and started. And at the same time, I think 96, that would have been 95.

So the very last race of 95 was Homestead, I think, for the first time at the old configuration. And we've got a brand new car from Butler built. The seat people built a dash car. Oh. And went down there and Qualms. qualified good had something happened in the race but that car became our short track car for the 96 season and we took a we built a brand new butler built speedway car and with richermash building the engines and that's the car we won the race with in Daytona 96 but those cars that was the first car

I'd ever set in that it actually like fit the seat the seat the pedals like they actually built a car to put me in it. So it was, I thought it was the greatest thing in the world. You know, you just go from being stuffed into a little box to actually, okay, this box is a little bit more manageable and things are a little more oriented for me to be able to send in it. And, you know, those cars and Richard really helped propel us for 96 for the season that we have.

So you went a bunch of races, won a championship? Yep. All right. First race win, you know, at the time, the youngest winner at Daytona, this is by claim to fame. Youngest winner at Bristol. How old were you? I was 17 I think. Gosh. I was watching to be 18. Hey, I've watched that race this week. In the Victory Lane interview, I believe they said you also had class. Were you actually in college at the time? I was, yeah, I was making my one attempt at going to college, Newberry College in South Carolina. They were amazing. They were very willing to

work with me like, hey, I know you're doing this, but we're going to, we're going to help you And, you know, when you're not there, we'll help you make it up and figure out a way for me to actually beat in college. So, yeah, at that time, I was still living at home and going to college or trying to. And then you go and you have this success. I mean, 96, you start winning, you win at Daytona, great race. A lot of good competitors in the Goody's Dash series. Yeah, it was a really neat time to be in that series. There were always a lot of good cars.

Yeah. You know, for a series of that size. It was neat and very competitive for the front, you know, 10 or 15 guys. So, yeah, that was a great experience. And to be able to win at Daytona, it doesn't matter what you're in, it's always, I mean, that was overwhelming. You know, especially having had that experience of coming there for the first time, seeing that place, and then you're just like. And the seat fits. Yeah, in the seat fits.

That's got to be nice. Yeah, there's no doubt. That was, I'm always a big comfort person. So that was a huge thing for me. So you move into the Xfinity Series following that year. Who encourages that? I think that was a quick jump. Yeah, you think?

I was definitely pushing. I was from the standpoint of I want to do this as a career. Yeah. It became like from 90, probably 95, 96, it became real to me that it's a possibility. And if it's a possibility, like I really want to, I'm graduating high school. I want to give this a shot. I want to go try to make this happen. So I was like pushing dad for at least what can we do is next.

And, you know, hindsight is always 2020. There's 100 ways to do it. And dad having had the life experience of taking something that was failing and making it successful in multiple areas, whether it's real estate or the chicken business, you know, he's always been able to kind of do that. Well, to him, racing seemed like we'll go make it work. Right.

You know, so we'll start our own team. We'll hire a brand-new crew chief, and we'll take you a rookie driver, and we'll go dominate in one of the toughest, most competitive times in the Xfinity series. Yeah, it was tough. Yeah. So you, do you remember the first time we met? No. Me neither.

Do you? I mean, the catalyst had to be Hank Jr. Yeah. Yeah. So you and Hank Jr. were great friends. Yes. So how did y'all become back? house.

Well, rookies in the Xfinity series? Yeah, I was already there, and that was the time he was coming. He was kind of driving for a couple different teams, and we actually talked this week because I thought that we met, I thought that we were in the Hulgun race in Homestead, and I wrecked him, and we met in the ambulance after I wrecked him to get in the Hulgin race. And we were talking the phone, like, it wasn't the Huligan race, because he made the race on time, But it was somewhere we met in the ambulance together where we wrecked, most like I wrecked him.

Oh, goodness. But that's how we met. And, of course, Hank, you know, is just so, Hank's Hank, you know, just over the top, happy, and just somebody you just want to be around. And I didn't have many friends. So, yeah, we just really connected quick and just became just really endeared to each other because we're going through the same experience. We were actually teammates, and I think that started in 98, where his dad and my dad kind of came together. Whenever we had the engine department going, they were providing engines for Hank, and we were trying to share, you know, data and trying to work together. So we were actually were teammates at some point.

But yeah, that's how I got started with him, and then at some point he introduced us together and kind of started hanging out, son. Yeah. So y'all had y'all's own engine. I forgot. Y'all had the own engine department at one time. Yeah, we were doing, when Jimmy Johnson, we did engines for Herzog and Base Motorsports, some. I mean, some really good programs ran. It had a great.

Our engine department was amazing. And dad actually kept that going for a little while after I got out. I remember your Exfinity career. There were times when, you know, your car's out there, for the most part, you had toward the end of your career you got some sponsorship and so forth but for the most part y'all were family funded you all were you all were funding your own program yeah and there were these moments of glimpses of your talent you know behind the wheel right you know and then there were there were also the days where it was just a struggle and the new team woes or or or the you know the new program problems

which have but there were moments when you would have uh you know you'd have a great run and you'd run solid all race long. What was your first year in the Xfinity Series? 97. Yep. All right. Daytona, 97 was the first race. So the first year was pretty tough.

Very. All right. Did you think at any point, you know, like, oh, man, this ain't for me? I never thought it wasn't for me. I always believed in my abilities, but that was consistently questioned. like there was a tension in between believing in yourself and what you can do because there's really until really ken schrader helped me there really wasn't any way for me to compare myself in 99 979899 and 99 elliott saler drove my car for a couple races right you know he got in and

charlotte was like i don't know how you do this you know at that point i'm going because i'm taking a huge risk by saying yes put somebody else in the car because y'all think it's me and i'm I'm saying I need help. This thing needs to be better, you know, that great debate, that if the, the great debate when the driver is the one thing that nobody can change. Yeah. So anyway, things like that, that really helped me in 99 when Elliot got in the car and he's like, this needs a lot of help.

And he didn't run any better than I did, you know. And then 2000 is when Schrader let me run his truck and Arka Car and ran every time I got in it. it was always competitive up front, you know, and that. So, yeah, it was always a struggle because we never had full funding. We're always running partial seasons. We're doing the best that we can based upon money. But it wasn't, I don't think it was a lack of money, but it also, I think it was the culmination

of being pretty well funded and probably bigger than that is the belief that in a short amount the time we're going to be super competitive with the people who've been doing this for a long time and have greater resources and abilities, you know, and people than what we were able to kind of put together. When was it the best? When was your program like you're like, hey man, this is good. We're getting somewhere. I think probably 98 and 2000 were two years that were really good.

You know, I was funny, I was thinking about all the crew chiefs I've had. And we had some big name crew chief and all in different parts of their life. But it really, regardless of what the name, it was always about somebody's ability to connect with me. Why? I think just so we can communicate what does the car need. And we had a box. And I knew, I think I really, I really, I really. realized as I was racing, I thought everything was equal from standpoint. I was like, hey, he's got a car, I got a car. You know, it's kind of at the dash here. He's like, yeah, some things are a little bit better. But I start, when I started learning more about race cars and I started learning more about aerodynamics, and then I started learning kind of how races developed. But I really started noticing the cars that I was racing against. And the bodies that were on their cars was not like the body that was on my car. And I had probably not given that.

near enough weight as far as importance of how much that really played a part into, you know, I think that's things that drivers have good cars. They just take that for granted. The car's good. You know, you get in it. The base level package is good. And, you know, we never had a day in the wind tunnel. And we had great people, you know, we're trying to do everything ourselves. At some point, we were trying to do every part, build the chassis, build the body, have an engine, you know, do everything that you can. And I think it makes it difficult. to be really good at all of those when you're that small. What about preparing for going to a road course for the first time?

You went to Bob Bondarant. Yeah. Which I love road course racing. And the way that we prepared then, we wouldn't go test. We would go to Bondurant. In Phoenix. Yeah, in Phoenix. Hank Jr. and I would go.

And we'd go for three days. And I don't know if you've ever been to a deal like that. But, you know, they give you four Mustangs or Shepardt. Chevrolet Corvettes or whatever they are. And it's like, hey, go out there and after the first half day, the instructors, instead of like, instruction, you're racing against you. You basically out there and race for two or three days. And, you know, that was probably one of my best experiences in racing because Hank Jr.

out there racing in instructors. And, you know, we're just getting, racing hard and harder against each other. And the thing I didn't know about analog brakes is that on those cars, when you're you jump on the brakes hard where a race car, your foot is what modulates whether the brake locks up or not. You can just ease off and keep it from locking up with an analog brake system. If you jam on that brake, the analog brake is designed to release pressure to keep from locking up. So I'm coming in behind this instructor and I'm going to outbreak him going in the corner

and I go in a little bit too deep and I jump on the brakes and the analog brakes on the Mustang release. And I hit the guy in front of me. I mean, so hard that the airbag went off in my car. Oh, wow. Totaled both cars, like, had to bring a wrecker out to pick them up. And that was the morning session. And the afternoon session, we're out there racing.

And Chad Chaffin, you remember Chad? Yes. All right. So he's there with us, too. We all book days together. Well, we come around the track racing, and he has destroyed another Mustang by running into the end of the pit wall. got sideways overcorrected and destroyed another Mustang. So in about a span of a couple hours there,

we destroyed three of the Bondarup Mustangs. But that was so much fun to get out there and just go at it with those guys. And I mean, those old Mustangs didn't have the good transmissions like we had in the cars. You actually had to use the clutch and all that stuff. So it was great preparation. But, yeah, that was an expensive day for Team Amick Motorsports. Yeah, I think I learned a ton when I went to Bob.

Bonnerant's driving school as well and it allowed me to be you know a lot more competitive right out of the gate because to me road racing was extremely foreign and intimidating and difficult and I knew nothing and didn't understand anything about it but going to that school like you say they just turn you loose and you just go wide ass open in those cars yeah it's crazy that they encourage yeah they do and that's what they want and I think they realize obviously what we were trying to accomplish and they let us do it, you know, with their cars, which is way cheaper than actually you go on and testing at Watkins Glen for three days, you know. Yeah, even destroying one.

That's right. See, I don't remember when y'all met, but clearly y'all developed a friendship at some point, and I would have to imagine it would have been right there around 98, 9798. Yeah, whenever you started. I can't remember any of it. Really? Yeah. Well, I just know that we spent time together.

Yeah. And a lot of, most of it when I saw him, was. around like I would say to Hank like hey man what we doing we got you know we got this week off or or we're doing we got a Sunday going to lake what are we going to do and linden would be there you know when him and Hank were so close and so we would end up playing video games or something but otherwise I don't I don't remember anything yeah I mean most of the times there were sometimes like different occasions where you know you'd come over like random lending Christmas parties and stuff like that.

But most time we were doing stuff around your house, you know, because at that time you were kind of massaging that place to be your own, you know. That was when the bar was built. You know, the game, basically the game room with the table set up to do the racing in, you know. And so it was kind of like me going to Disney World to come over to your house. And it was a surreal experience for sure for me, you know, because you're 18, 19, 20 years old, you know, and what's crazy, like at the time, being able to be friends with you and hang out with you was, it was a great, because you were socially awkward in the beginning.

Oh, yeah. But there was a realness to who you were. You know, like you were yourself. You were who you are. And if that's awkward to you, I'm sorry, but this is who I am, you know. And I appreciated that way more now than I did then because then I'm living the facade of being this, you know, corporate, you know, nice, clean cut, you know, young race car driver, but not really who I am. Not feeling it. Yeah.

Yeah. So I look back at that very fondly, even though it wasn't like we had this Hank Jr. type connection. But there was a connection there that was real. you know, and that was always heartfelt. And, you know, there was, there was different highlights to me of that part, and it was great. Did any of them include Dale Senior? Yes. Oh, really?

Yeah. Yeah, there was a time where we were playing video games until about six in the morning. And I think Senior was going to do something on the farm, and he comes busting in the door, and he's like, what are you all doing? and we're not, you know, sit there driving the computer. He's like, he basically went through this like, this whole speech about us doing something with our lives. But he had a sly smile in the corner of his mouth, you know.

I think he so enjoyed the fact that we were in there together doing something. Not out doing something stupid. Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, he knew, like, there needs to be some responsibility here amongst young adults to go actually do something productive, you know. Yeah, that was A num...

Sounds right, doesn't it? Yeah, I did. Jesus. There was other time when we were racing the 20... I don't know if you knew that I raced the 24 hours of Daytona with you. No. Not in a Corvette. I was in a corvette,

but it was in a different class. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't remember that. Yeah. So I actually, the car that I drove was a tube chassis, more like a NASCAR car, but in a road racing sense,

but it had like 800 horsepower. hour. I think I was caught that 24 hours is miserable, but the times that we got to run in the dry, I mean, I think I was caught like 209 on the back straight away, but it would not go through the middle section as quick as the corvettes. So there was this always kind of back and forth. And there was times that I was around the corvettes. And there was the one time, I think it was the first segment or the second segment. And it was whenever I was driving and it was dry. So there wasn't many segments that were dry. But your dad was in the car. And I went around him.

At that time, we had talked enough that I kind of developed a little banner with him. And I went around him on the outside because I was faster on the straightaway in three and four. And I, you know, gave him the finger out the window. Just flipped him off. Yeah. The intimidator. Yes. Like it was nothing.

Well, I knew it was something. No, I knew what I was doing. But at the same time, that's kind of my personality, you know. And to be able to do that. This is the only time in my life I'm going to pass Delinert Senior. you know like ever so i had to make the most of it so hang a bird out the window just for good measure so whenever and nothing said so we're doing you remember how i don't know how they do it now but we used to have to go to victory lane

in Daytona like in between to i can to catch the evening news like do interviews and stuff and we were we were done with the 24 and we were prepping it was during race week for the NASCAR and we were all over there doing interviews to whoever you were doing an interview with and so like Dale Senior was there Richard Petty was there Kyle a couple other ones anyway senior came over and put me in a headlock and was like don't you ever flip me off again yes sir that's crazy it was just a joke I mean but honestly it was me it was just it's capturing that that moment you know to be able to say the one was the one time got to pass him but but yeah, you know, such, like I said, I can look back now with much, much clarity

taking out, you know, the person that I was for who I am today. And now I look back of those moments with a completely different lens of how I, how I see all of that, you know, and have such an appreciation for it. So you ran, you ran up until, what, 2003 is when you retired? Talladega of 03 was... So what do you... The story is, I guess, mid-crash. You retired.

Fair enough. What happened, I think there was this... First off, the thing that changed my life forever is when my son was born. When did this happen? November of 2002. Okay. So right before... I know that having a child has a massive impact, but why...

was it, why was it so big? So big. Where were you in your life? Where were you emotionally, mentally as a person? Yeah, I think I was, I was in the process of being done with racing. It taken 10 years, really. And I was, at this point, at this, you know, having, you know, moments of success. But the, you know, the, I think I thought about the day, there was like maybe four races where I was within I was either there's a couple I was leading and there was a couple I was you know in the potential of winning and something happened whether it's a cutter tire break a shock you know all that it's just typical racing yeah but typically when somebody is that competitive there are breakthrough moments where you get you know you go and win races you know I never have

those moments so I think that I look back and go hey it took 10 years for that to get out of my system to the point that I'm willing to take an honest look. That, at the same time, that culminating with my son being born, those two worlds colliding. And, you know, when he was born, it was just, it stopped becoming about me. And I realized there's more to life than, you know, trying to be a race car driver. There's more to my life now, more, you know, not just responsibility, but like, this is a human being. you know, named after me, and I'm holding in my arms. It just, I don't know, it just shook me to the core.

You know, and I, and in one hand, like, I hate that it took a birth of a baby to get me to the point of, you know, feeling like there's more out there. But at the same time, like, I'm forever grateful that that, that happened. Because it's going to take something like that for me to be willing to go, I'm not satisfied continuing to do this the way that I'm doing it. So I think all of that was kind of working towards that. But probably the last picture I have of me in a fire suit is me holding Billy, my son, on pit road, but right before that race.

And I got in the car and had a great car. At that time, Harold Holly was the crew chief, amazing crew, probably one of my favorite people and crew chiefs. The car was great. I think we qualified in the top 10. It was running in the top 10. And it's the LindenAMIC synopsis career story. The guy in front of me cuts the tire.

I see it. Get my hand up. You know, like, hey, slow down. The guy behind me, I don't remember who it was, but he was a rookie and didn't ever slow down. Hit me in the rear. 24 car pile up. And it was, like I kind of summarized my whole career.

in that moment of getting wrecked, almost flipping over, spinning down, and as I'm spinning down the infield, I'm like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm not, I was already toying with the idea of the military, what's next. You know, I was getting to the point of just like, I'm done. You're going to do something different. Yep. Why the military?

I don't think, I think. When was this, you said, you said just now, like, you already had thoughts about it. What started that? Well, here again, Billy being born, but also, you know, that was November. So you go through the offseason. We didn't really race. I think Talladega was the first and the only race I was in that year. So that's April.

What are you doing with yourself? We're, you know, I had just come out of the Dr. Pepper deal that went bad and I drove the PPC car at Kansas, finishing the top 10, my one race with them. But all the months in between? Yeah, I mean, just trying to get something else put together. You know, we had closed Team Amic Motorsports because I took a job, you know, actually driving for another team. So kind of reestablishing all that, you know, and that was kind of the gist of what we were trying to accomplish. But all of it producing frustration and it's just not going well.

All right. So do Talladega, like I said, made that decision. And by that was April. by May the 23rd, that's when I raised my right hand and swore in to the military. Who would you talk to about this military idea? Well, why the military, I felt like, bring that question back up, but why the military, I felt like I had missed a lot of my youth, kind of like the college experience, you know, some of the normal life of people that I knew and had seen, and I couldn't go back.

I mean, I could have gone back and gone to college, but I didn't want to. But there was things like I had had some probably childhood dreams of being in the military. Is there somebody in your family? Dad was in the military. Okay, your dad. He was an officer in the National Guard. Yeah. Okay.

Which I didn't really know that part of him. I mean, he kind of kept that for me. And when I came to him and said, hey, I'm done and I'm joining the military, you know, that was like. How old are you at this point? 26. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, I was.

I just felt like I owed something to my country at this point for the freedom that we were, to be able to go race. And like, I was kind of a World War II buff. And it just stirred in me, like, I owe something for what I'm able to live in, the country I'm able to live in. And I was just familiar enough with the sacrifice of the people and generations that had gone before us that I was like, you know, I'm at a point in my life. I'm in great shape.

I can go do something. I can go serve my country. So, and it's funny, I was telling Melanie, my wife, like, well, at least I'm not going to be risking my life every weekend. You know, like in racing, the reality of that started hitting home, too. You know, like you're always convincing yourself that, you know, it's not going to happen to you. And, you know, I've been very fortunate.

And as many times as I hit the wall and as hard as I hit the wall, I didn't have anything more than concussions that I dealt with. and, you know, I just kind of like said, hey, the odds of me risking my life, really, in the military is very slim, you know, so I like to serve my country. That sounds asinine, to be honest. Oh, I know, but this is how you rationalize it to yourself. So are you rationalizing that with your wife, too?

Yeah, that's what I told. Oh, yeah. And what is her response to that? You know, I think she was just glad that I wasn't going to be racing anymore. She didn't want you to race anymore. Yeah. And she never projected that to me because she was just living, I mean, that's all. Living your life.

Yeah, living my dream. She didn't know anything about racing, didn't know I was a race car driver when we met. You know, this was all new to her. So she's going through this like, well, God, that's got to be better than this, because this life is miserable, you know. And not racing can be that way, but it was really more me in that situation than it was racing because, you know, it can be what you make it. but I was, I was, I was, you were miserable. Yeah, I was miserable, and I was making it miserable for her,

and we had just had a baby, you know what I mean? All these things are compounding. I live that too. Right. I was all piling on each other. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, so that's, that was really the why of, because I really wanted to serve my country,

but that shouldn't have been, that's a great reason, but it's kind of like the egotistical driver who didn't make it, it's got to find a better reason to go, get out of racing. Like who's going to... You needed... You needed the reason to get out of racing that you felt like everybody would accept. Right.

Holy shit. I mean, I think looking back now, like, I think that's what I was thinking. Like, who's going to argue with you going and serving your country? I mean, there were all these, there's, there's the part of my heart who wanted to serve the country. That's good. You know, that's real. That was for real.

And that was probably the main motivation. But this would be the only one. way you could do you could leave racing with a with peace of mind yeah yeah i think that's going on too that's fair that's you know i think i have to be honest with myself and go there's part of me that like how do you walk away from this too you know being a human being yeah that's and i was also i was kind of done i wanted to go do something that i could stand on my own merit the only question i have and i think a lot of people might have is your family with this successful business you don't have to to risk your life, you know.

And I guess you could have, you know, done anything else. Yeah. You could have done whatever else you wanted to do. Absolutely. And never enter my mind. You wouldn't do that. Never enter my mind. I think because the same kind of personality that goes and, you know,

tries to make it in racing is the same personality that needs that reason to be able to exit. that you're going to go be a chicken farmer, you know. I don't know. I didn't have that rational thought, but subconsciously that had to be going. There was never any part of me that, like, looked at that as an option of going back and being, I so didn't want to do that,

that I was going to find something else to do. And that doesn't make sense because it's an amazing business that's there, but it never, never appealed to me. And, and dad never, forced it on me. Sure. You know, he never said, hey, you need to come back and do this.

If he had, I would have done it out of respect for him. So you, when did you, when do you get to training? So I raised my right hand in May, and there was a delay until November, until you shipped out. All right. So from May to November, I was at home, moved back to South Carolina, where I'm from. Anybody try to talk to you out of this? Yes.

Who? Well, my dad, for one, my mom, anybody that love me, except for my wife, not that she didn't love me, but I think she realized at that point if I had to kind of set my mind to do something. And, you know, my personality is if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it 100%. Let me ask you this. All right. So I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I got to know this, the birth of your son, profound. Change your mind, change your life, change you.

but you're going to go do this and you're going to have to sacrifice time, right, away from them. Yeah. How did you battle with that? How did you justify it? How did I rationalize it to myself? So I know exactly because I thought this thought. So in racing, it's basically a 12-month commitment, right? Like if you do anything back then, I don't know how it is now, but back then, if you do anything besides try to better yourself in racing,

Like you don't go to, you know, family events and you're always trying to get better. So you can't go, you can't take time away from racing to go do X, Y, Z. So the way that I looked at the military was, yes, I'll be gone, but in certain spurts. So, you know, I'll be home some, but then I'll be gone. And obviously the worst case scenario, which was in my mind, the best case scenario was to be deployed. That was a real, you know, we're in wartime. whenever I decided to join the military. So that was a real possibility.

Were you eager to be deployed? Yeah. After, I think, I wanted to, because I didn't choose to go be a doctor in the military or a truck driver. Sure. I wanted to be an infantryman. I wanted to be the guy that kicks in the doors

and shoots a lot because here again, it's kind of that same. You were all in. Yeah. If I'm going to do it, I want to do what's the biggest, baddest thing you can do, you know. So the truth of the story is I wanted to go into the special forces. And I had a mutual friend who was in the Army, who was at Fort Benning and was training infantry soldiers, and we connected. and so I went and met with him.

You're talking about people who helped who talk to you, you know, who helped you through this process. He was in it, doing it. And so I went and met with him and I said, here's what I want to do. I want to go special forces. I want to do the National Guard, which National Guard has special forces, because I could be home.

I won't be, you know, having to move to a fort, whatever. I was in the process of building a house in where I'm from, so I could basically have my cake and eat it too. I could be in the military, be in special forces. And when I'm not deployed or not in training, I can be home. So that was another part of my, like, argument, or not argument, my proposal. It was a reality. I mean, whenever I was gone, I was gone.

But when you come home, you know, you're able to, I was able to be at South Carolina home, as opposed to being at a base, you know. So it was. But, you know, the time that you're. deployed is the same time, you know, or the time that you're off is, it's the same as if you are not there. But yeah, so, so that buddy of mine, I went and met with him before I ever went to basic training. And, and I said, here's what I want to do. So, so we put together this plan. He helped me put together a plan. We went and met with National Guard Special Forces in Alabama,

and they said, hey, what you need to do is you need to go from South Carolina, go to infantry, basic training in Fort Benin, get airborne school. And then when you graduate, you graduate, you, graduate from that, then do a transfer to Alabama, and then we'll send you to training for special forces. Got it. So that's what I did. I went back to South Carolina. Did all that? Well, I did the airborne and the infantry part, yeah.

So that was like 16 weeks of basic and then another three weeks of airborne school. Starting and when? Starting November. So starting November of that year? Yeah. So you've had like five or six months since you've officially retired from racing that now it's not like you were gone the next. month right from from may yeah April Talladega yeah November that's when I started basic training what do you remember from basic training what do you think about when you think about it I think

now I think about it is it was awesome I think you know that experience if I could if my three boys could go through that experience it's it's an amazing experience to go through it's very difficult it's hard doesn't matter what branch what what what your job is in the military but But when you go through something like basic training, it takes people from every background. And it takes them down to a very primal level of you're a human, I'm a human, and we're going to work together for the betterment of our country. You know, and to go through that process, and nobody knew me. I didn't say a word to anybody.

I was just a 26-year-old, old guy, you know, who was there going through basic training. A lot of younger guys than you in there. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I loved it. love the military. You know, my original contract was three years and I wound up doing eight because I just enjoyed it. I mean, I excelled at it. It was something that was very easy to me. The military, if you will be correct 90% of the time if you just do what you're told. It's very simple. You just do what you're told and you will be, you will excel in the military and I loved it.

I loved it. It went to airborne school. I mean, it was that process being, I'd never been gone from home like that. So being gone for 16 weeks straight. You know, the first part of that back then, you know, it was called a total control phase of basic training. And they take everything away from you. You can't call home. You know, like, I was sold this bill of goods of like, oh, yeah, you'll be able to talk to your family and all this stuff. Yeah, no. And, I mean, they took away my ketchup.

They took away salt. They took away everything. You know, like, there's these, you know, there's these people serving us food. And they're like, you don't get to choose. Like, you get what you get. And you got to eat it. And you got about 20 seconds to eat it. And then you got to be in formation outside.

And, you know, they were doing these training. videos and in between the training video the the hour it's our block of training and they give you a three minutes between the hour to go to the bathroom and there's 55 guys going for three spots in a bathroom you know so like this everything is new everything is crazy but I was I had prepared myself because that same guy who I walked through the plan of what I need to do he was in basic training training to look forward to yeah he was say I mean he was he taught me how This is how you attach your equipment. This is how you keep your uniform squared away. This is how you do your boots. So I went in there way ahead of the curve because I went in there with the goal of being the best soldier in the group and having had some preparation. You know, it's the way I approach everything. You do everything that you can to be as prepared as you possibly can so that you excel.

What happened when they learned who you were, what you did? It was a funny story. We were on the rifle range. and we were shooting and I had finished early and the drill sergeant called me over which was not abnormal at this point. We were six weeks in, I think. And it's funny how he was trying to ask without asking,

you know, but he basically came down to, were you in NASCAR? And so I always like, I knew that if, If I was asked that question, they already knew the answer. You know, so I was like, yes, Joe Sergeant, I was. Okay. That was it. So then, after that, is when they just started...

Hammering you? Yeah, started getting on me, you know. Like what? I would just like calling me out and making me, you know, to get what they call smoke you, you know, where you're doing all the exercises in the room. So they made it tougher on you. Oh, yeah. Of course.

Okay, because I would assume there's a stigma. I mean, why? What do you mean, of course? Yeah, we don't know. Well, yeah, I mean, like for them, it was a point of like, oh, you think you're, you know, going to come join the military. But it was all, there was a. You had already been there for six weeks? Oh, yeah. And you're not, had not kind of proven your, I was proving to be, I was one of the, you know, this is all little things in the military, but it was big to me at the time. But they assigned leadership to students.

And after, you know, about week seven or so, they started. start you start getting leadership positions. And I was one of the few people of my whole cycle that once I got put in student leadership position, I never was removed. You get removed if you mess up. Sure. Right. And I was like, I was on it, you know, and I was, I was awarded airborne school. I didn't go in there with it in my contract. It was actually awarded to me. So, you know, I did really well in basic training, but they still, they give you hard time. Oh, yeah. This actually, I have to assume something. And I wanted to ask you this a little while ago. so I don't mean to go backwards.

But is it fair to assume that they think you're coming from a life of privilege? Absolutely. Okay. And I was. How much money were you walking away from? It's kind of tainted because how much money did we spend, you know? Okay. The quickest way to make a million in races is to spend 10 or start with 10 or whatever.

You know, I mean, that's kind of, so I can't really take the money that I put in my pocket as a race car driver and say, oh, I made that because, I mean, our family was spending, you know, tons of money. But you quit during the middle of a contract. You know, so you knew what you were supposed to get paid that year. Well, yeah, I mean, just, you know, $100,000 or $200,000, whatever it was, you know. I mean, but that didn't, none of that was even, that never crossed my thought process. I think for them it was you came from the elite racing world. That's right. What are you doing here in basic training, you know?

That's my point. Whether it was true or not, that's what they probably assume, and that's a fair assumption. What did you tell them? Oh, I just kept my mouth shut and did whatever I was told. ever said no it wasn't until later in the cycle towards the end whenever they they start loosening up you know and then they started asking them they come over and they you know put me in the front line arrest position or put me in the push-up position and then they start asking me questions and make me talk while I'm in the push-up position you know and like everything to me like all of that

stuff was all hilarious like what would they ask you while you're in the push-up position? I like why did you not finish better at Myrtle Beach or something? No that's what my dad said it wasn't that was a drill sergeant. You know, they, um, they would just ask about it, you know,

like, like anybody else who was curious about it, but they would do it in a way that was a drill sergeant talking to a private. What's the fastest you ever went? Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah. What are you doing when you go at the bathroom, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, just like all that kind of stuff, which was fun, you know, at that point,

I had, definitely proven that, uh, to me, this was something I took seriously and it had nothing to do with, you know, because people, people crazily accused me of joining the

military for sponsorship. You know, at that time we had all the armed forces. And, you know, I had people say. Like you were angling. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. I think I kind of remember that.

Yeah. People thinking that, oh, oh, this is why he did it because he's trying to get sponsorship. I'm like, no, I raise my right. This ain't the PR thing. I raise my right hand and I'm going to basic training, you know. Yeah. Yeah, that was crazy. So you mentioned that you joined.

the National Guard during wartime. So there was the potential, right, that you knew you were aiming in that direction. You do get deployed in May of 2003. So how long? 2007. 2007? Yeah. All right.

So you'd been in the military for the first contract. Signed up for a second contract. Did you know you were signing up because you were going to deploy? When they had the meeting with us that, hey, our company's going to Afghanistan. I was at the end of my contract and I said, send me and extended right there.

We were in Fort Stewart, Georgia. What'd your family say? Well, I think it was really hard for my dad. I think it was hard for my mom. I think Melanie did, I mean, obviously she did an amazing job absorbing me and me going Afghanistan. She's probably a little bit relieved, honestly, with me leaving. I mean, our marriage was kind of like that racing guy. It was a facade. You know, it was the, in appearances, it was a great marriage and a great family. But the truth is that, you know, I was not doing a good job being a husband or a father at that point. So it was probably a relief for her, honestly, for me to be gone for a little while.

That's a hell of a thing to admit. Yeah. What was going on? Well, let's see. Where do we start? I think, you know, from, you know, having affairs to not concerned with my kids, not being there as a dad, I mean, just, you know, just a miserable human being looking for peace, you know, and just not just being a jerk, you know. That's not who I think of you as. well I think I think in and the heart of who I was that's that wasn't who I was but I think that I

kind of grew into that you would think that racing would take you down that path you know of being a miserable human being yeah you know there's a lot of I think I think I didn't know how to process failure like that you know and all my life was tied up with being a race car driver. And to do something like that and not succeed. I mean, that's definitely, you know, that's one reason, but that's not the reason. You know, I think that I just was not,

just wasn't truly, you know, I wasn't happy. I didn't know how to be a good husband, you know, like my dad doesn't, didn't model that well. You know, it's just like a lot of things swirling around that contributed to all that. And a lot of people go to therapy. Yes. You join military.

Yes. Which is, I guess, maybe the same thing. Yeah, in a different way. Yeah. Yeah. We went to therapy and it didn't help. You know, like, I mean, I'm very, I feel like I was very good at, I was definitely very good at lying and I was extremely good at and smart enough to be able to turn around

a accusation and put it back on you. You know, I know, Melanie, we would have conversations. and she would be coming to me with a legitimate like, I should own, you know, like I should own this that I screwed up or I'm doing something that shouldn't be doing. And she'd walk away from that conversation going, how is this my fault? You know, because that's, I would just, I could just turn it around, you know.

Yeah. Well, listen, because I know y'all are doing well, I appreciate you being so honest today about that with us because I know that that's no easy thing. So I know that the story ends well, but you go to, but you go to war to get there. there. Exactly. That's how messed. I mean, that's messed up, you know, but that's, I was, I was looking for a way out of the life I had created or that I was participating with. Like, for me,

Afghanistan, is it a deployment to a combat zone? Yes. But it's also a pause in the person who was like the way I was living my life, you know. And on the outside, everybody felt my life was amazing, you know, like you, you, you would look at it from the outside and go, it's a picture perfect. Sure. You know, my family, my immediate family, wife and kids, I mean, I've got three boys. Like, what's not to like? You know, you're living in South Carolina.

So, but for, you know, it was, it was, I was making things miserable and it was miserable. And I was also, like, I didn't really know how to, how to change that, how to be different, you know. And so for me, it was like, hey, yeah, I can, I can go be absent for, from this world that I created for a year, you know, and I get to go do what I've been wanting to do for the last four years. You know, what I've been training to do is go to a combat zone and be an infantry soldier. We'll talk about that a little bit. I want to know, though, while for the time you're over there, how does your relationship with your wife evolve? You know. Or did it at all? Yeah, it evolved from this standpoint.

She blossomed while I was gone. Spiritually as a person, it was probably what was needed for her to be able to get through what was and what was when I came back to. So it was really great for her. For our relationship, I mean, I was gone. I came home for two weeks out of a whole 13 months. Actually, it was longer than that because if you count the train up, you know, I was. actually gone for about 15 months and I came on for two weeks. The rest of it was all via phone. Yeah. You know, like I would call and she did you start to have any like I guess, you know,

I imagine you probably had your mind full of what you were doing and experiencing in Afghanistan, but I wonder, obviously, I mean, she stayed loyal. Yeah. Right. And at some point, are you recognizing that? At some point, are you starting to. Like how, when do you decide to change who you are? I wanted to be, like, when I was over there, I wanted to be the guy that, you know, you thought I was or whoever thought I was. Like, I wanted to be the dad, you know, I wanted to be the husband. And I came back, I came back with just unbelievable trauma from a being deployed since, you know. Like PTSD?

Yeah, I mean, that's what they call it. But they throw PTSD on everything now. But yes, the truth of being, and it is the combat is not near as impactful as being in a combat zone for a year with the job that we had where you know every time that you leave, you're going to risk your life. I'm going outside the wire. I'm going to do something. There is a chance that I'm going to get shot at blown up. up. And you deal with that early on or else it'll drive you crazy. And so, and you're also living with these guys 24-7, you know, I tell people a year deployed is like 10 years any other part

of your life. The concentration of time you spend with somebody, like, you know, you don't spend that much time with your friends. You hardly spend that, you know, like, it's just like you're 24-7 always together, always having to do things. And then you compound that with, you can't, stick your head outside the door of your hut that you're living in without thinking somebody could be looking at me if I drive this Humvee or this whatever your vehicle is in when as soon as we leave that wire it's on and you live that way for a year it takes a tremendous effect on your everything your personality and that's why when guys like that when you come home and that's just you know I was just deployed for one one time for a year you got guys on multiple deployments

when you come home, you know, like I'm driving down the road in my suburban or whatever, and I see trash on the side of the road, and my first thought is that, you know, is it going to blow up, you know, that car is a little bit too close to me. Like, you know, that's the way you operate to your vigilance over there is what keeps you safe. So we'd run people off the road, guns pointed at them. We do whatever we have to do to be safe, you know, priority number one is us going back home safely. And so you take that hamped up, ready to go person who operates at level 10, 10 being ready to kill somebody. We don't ever get above a level 2 here.

You know, we live in a level 1, 2, like, you know, even if we have a knockdown dragout, okay, say that's a 3. Well, over there, you're operating at a level 10 all the time. And that just takes unbelievable impact on your whole, every part of you is impacted by that. And you dismiss all of it and you throw it all to the side because you're there to do a job, you know, and you put all that aside. And then, okay, now that's over. And you turned in your weapon, you turned in your body armor, and you're on a plane back home. And you're coming back into a world that has no idea what it's like over there, you know, whose bad day is that they didn't have what you were looking for at Walmart, you know. And over there, it's like, how do, that was probably the hardest thing for me is how do I,

how do I connect even with my family who is living a completely different life that I'm living? Like we can't even, there's nothing even for us to talk about honestly in common because what I'm dealing with, I don't really want to, I can't even explain to you. And what you're dealing with is so insignificant to me. Yeah. That it's like, how do we? How did you do it? We just, you know, I did my best to be sympathetic and, and listen to what was going on. And at the same time, the back of my mind going, this is a bunch of BS, you know, like.

It's not a problem. Yeah. Like, that's first world problem. First world problems, you know. And I did, I think I did really well at not like being that guy, you know, of just like, I tried to be very respectful at the same time. I leave that conversation and go, you know, I can't relate. Had you improved it all from the person that you were before you left?

Let's remove the wartime experiences aside. You were sort of looking for yourself when you went there. You had things about yourself that you didn't like. You wanted to change. You were hoping this would do it for you or at least contribute to it. Did it? I think that it was paramount in beginning that process. Because when I went over there, sorry, when I went over there, it changed my perspective on America.

It changed my perspective on life. Like, I had such an appreciation for the country I was going back to. I don't care who is the president. I don't care what the situation is. This is still, you know, the greatest country. And it's a privilege to be able to live here. And, you know, the people there, amazing people, and when they get around Americans to the point that they can connect with us,

all they want to do is leave. You know, specifically talking like Afghanistan, but the people that they experience being around us, and it's like, wow, there's a difference. And these are not like, we're not talking about missionaries. We're talking about soldiers who are there doing a job who are very aware that, like, I may have to shoot you in the next 10 seconds. But even that person from America, when they connected with them, it was so impactful that they wanted to come to America because of how difficult their life is there.

And, you know, so that gave me such an appreciation for this country. And so when you come back here, it's like I have a completely different. perspective. And that started that process of, you know, me not become, me not being such a big deal. And, you know, I, I came home and wanted to, like I said, I wanted to be that guy. You know, I wanted to be the dad and the husband. And a lot of that was then polluted with, you know, just the trauma. And but thankfully, my family loved me and I have so many, um, other people in the military that came home to different experiences, you know, to came home with their bank accounts cleaned out by their girlfriend and they don't come home with nothing, you know, and different. You had a,

you can imagine the gamut of experience when a, you know, a thousand people come home from deployment. But for me to have my family who loved me, supported me, even though I, you know, like my, my family, my parents and stuff, they didn't know what was going on. But my wife knew that, and she didn't know the full details of what was going on before I left, but she knew our marriage wasn't great. But she still, when I came home, she's very loving, very supportive. I mean, because it was hard for me to just be in public. Yeah.

It's incredible that she hung in there. Yeah. I'm telling you, she didn't just hang in there like she was in the, she was a flower that was blossoming while I was gone. So that kind of tells you, you know, how rough it was for me being there and, you know, being in control of the narrative, I guess, of our family, you know, as the father. So it was, yeah, it was big for both of us. So I had a friend that was in the military and he went and had a tour or two in Iraq before Afghanistan.

and he had heard how Afghanistan was and wanted to go there and wanted to do a tour there. And then when he got there, he wanted to leave because he said it was scary. Yeah. So I'm sort of just throw you right into that same. I imagine, you know, it was the same for everyone that was in Afghanistan at that time. I guess a lot of people, you know, I mean, I have to go back to your family.

You know, did you have moments when you're sitting there and you're thinking, man, you know, you're thinking back on your life going, I was a race car driver. My dad had this, my family had this business. And how did I get here? How did I end up in this? I never thought that. I was so into what I was doing that. that I never like that you were never going to drag me back to the chicken farm yeah okay I knew that and I was so done with racing yeah like I never it wasn't like I guess not that you were

missing any of those things but like I was proud to be there yeah even though it was a terrible situation and even though it was where you ever did anything ever happen over there that that terrified the out of you oh yeah right so though Even in those moments, it didn't break your spirit. No. There's several times that I should have been killed. And it's crazy. Like in those moments, it's the same kind of like justification, you know, like that we were telling me earlier.

But in those moments, like, it's not going to happen, you know. Like, it's not going to happen to me. I mean, I've got, we got in a firefight and, I mean, we, the gunner on the hump, Humvee was filming, we had two cameras going. And at that point, that was all kind of very, obviously very new. So, but there's, like, and when I'm in that moment, I think back when I was in that moment and I was shooting, you know, back at the enemy and they were firing at us. Like, I remember very well that in that moment, like, I, you know when, when it's close,

like when you're getting, when the bullets are coming close, it has a distinct sound over when it's not, you know? And I was judging that and I could tell, okay, it wasn't close. When I go back and watch that video, the Humvee that I'm standing behind is getting hit with bullets. It's got bullet holes. And afterwards, I was like, hmm, I wonder where those came from. In the moment, I had no idea that I was that close to getting shot, you know. How can you watch all that stuff back?

You just, it's just like, I don't know, it's like just part of the narrative. You know, you're like, I look back with that. You know, thankfully, nobody in my platoon was killed. Only the bad guys were killed in the engagements that I was in. There was people that were close to me that, you know, were killed and different interactions with that world, you know, people being killed. So, you know, I didn't have to directly deal with somebody close to me dying. So it was more of like I escaped another moment where, you know, I should have been Q.

I mean, there's a lot of times I should have been hurt in a race car that I wasn't. So, you know, there was a consistent kind of like, well, that happened, but it didn't happen to me. So, you know, I just keep on marching on. And part of that, too, is like you have to kind of be there mentally. Like, you can't really assess the risk of what you're doing when you're in that combat zone. and you're, you know, actively engaged with an enemy. Like, you can't really assess what's happening. Because if you really assess what was happening,

you would, like, you would just be thinking about nothing but the fact that you're... Endangered. Yeah, going to die. So, like, that can't even, that side of your brain never even functions. Just like racing. Yeah. Well, not just like racing, but similar. Similar in a sense of, like, if you thought, man, this is dangerous and I could die before the race.

What would your lap time look like? It would not be good. Right. Yeah. Same thing. You turn that part of your brain off and you get out there. I got a job to do. I'm going to do my job.

If I get killed, I got killed. I mean, that's how you had to operate or else. You would not. There's no way you could do your job. Yeah. If you're. But I just got to feel like that that, damn, I don't know how. Because like in a race car, there's so much around you that would tell you you're safe as hell.

But in a combat zone, like you say, you could pick out your hood and be shot immediately. And driving around. I wouldn't want to, I don't know how you had the courage to even get in a Humvee and leave your base or where your encampment. I can't even imagine that type of courage. It doesn't mean, it's unhuman. But it's because you have everybody, you know, all of the guys I was with, that's what they signed up to do, you know. And everybody dealt with combat. That's the one thing is like, it's one thing to be in the country.

It's another thing to be in combat because I had guys who cowered up, you know, like a child and was in the fetal position in the bottom of the floor of the Humvee. And I had guys that standing on top of the gun turret, you know, completely exposed. And what's the difference, you know? On paper, this guy was a better soldier. But in combat, that's the guy you want. with you, you know, and it has that effect on people. When you get into a life or death situation, people respond differently. And they don't always respond.

Did you know how you would respond? Or do you have to just go in there and find out? I felt like I feel like I've always, when I've been put in situations like that, not necessarily life or death situations, but situations that are dangerous. I've always been very calm and always been able to make decisions, not freeze up and continue, you know, whatever it is I'm supposed to be doing. And then kind of after the fact, go back and go, ooh, that was kind of rough. How did the firefight start in your experience? Did it, was it a mission that you guys engaged in?

Or was there, you know, was there ever ambushes? Like, how did it start? Well, this particular one is something that the American, see, we had what they called ETTs or embedded training teams. So we had Americans who were embedded with the Afghan police or the Afghan army, and they were training them to help protect their country. It's been going on for the last 10 years, you know. So part of their job as embedded trainers was to take these guys, take them on missions

and movement to contact and let's go get the bad guys kind of stuff. So my group were the same. sec for or the security force for the whole region of harat which is like the northwestern part of afghanistan and we would do different jobs we would uh do personal security details where we would take you know our senior leadership around the country and do different things uh we had guys that were security force gunners on missions with embedded trainers we would do convoy escorts we would just kind of do we run the gate at the compound so we kind of had all these different jobs that we would do as security force. So one of them was to support this embedded

training team who was doing this mission, movement to contact, to go get a bad guy. So Sunrise Mission, we had trained, we jumped in with those guys. They've been training for a month to do this. We jumped in with them about a week to go. And I was a driver, and my guys were driver, gunner, on some of the American vehicles. And we were rolling with Afghan vehicles in their trucks. And so, you know, it's basically a movement to contact. We're going to this hut compound or we're going to get the bad guy. Well, we pull up, you know, everything goes great. We get to the right to pull up to the building. It's the wrong building. So the interpreter is freaking out like, no, no, no, no. They had done unbelievable amounts

of intel on this being the spot. And it wasn't. And so the interpreter's like, no, no, this isn't it. This isn't it. I mean, it's all that military dollars spent to do this, mission and the interpreter is the one who's telling us that this is not where the bad guys are you know they're up there so anyway chaos ensues and uh i'm in the lead vehicle driving a captain who is the the guy that's in charge of the embedded trainers and he's going to be boots on the ground going into the building we pull up and uh turn around i get out start pulling security turn around like I'm the only American vehicle my guys where that original compound was there's like 14 foot mud walls on both sides so they can't see anything they're blocked in by the afghan police

and i had gone ahead with uh with our u.s forces which was us in the vehicle and pulled up and what where we stopped over here is the building and so we're i get out we're pulling security trying to get all of our guys come up here so we can all be up where we're supposed to be and then gunfire and like gunfire from it was crazy if there was a moment there where I just looked up and I'm like there's a canopy of like tracer fire going over my vehicle over the I was just like I bought it almost like fireworks you know like it's just all tracer fire which you know trace around is like it burns in the air as the bullets going through so it takes a lot of rounds to make a somewhat of a canopy of fire. So I'm standing outside, pulling security.

And that's when it all kicked off, you know. And so at that moment is when, like, my guys on the radio, it just was chaos. You know, people were screaming, hollering, yelling, and like, and I, it's kind of one of those moments of clarity, but I got on there, I was like, in this tone that I'm talking to you right now, it's like, whatever their call sign was, listen, my call sign is a, up here by myself. I need you to unmess up y'all's vehicles and get to me right now. I'm 300 meters to your north. Get here because we're under fire. And so they started getting the Afghans out of the way. Anyway, there's a moment there where it's just us in this vehicle taking fire,

returning fire. There's a machine gun on top of that building, the compound, firing at us. and we're trying to hold our own anyway it felt like to 20 minutes so it was probably about more like a minute or a minute and a half our guys got there we started returning fire getting fire superiority and then started the boots on ground of going in there and and taking out the bad guys so when how does how does your tour wrap up like it ends yeah so you're sent home yep the end of May and your contract with a military. So, I mean, I signed up for another year when I signed up before we deployed. So I was at the end again. And so now your home, your contract's done with a military. Yep. Are you re-up?

Gonna re-up. Yep. What for? I just, I loved it. It's who you are. Yeah. Because, you know, I don't know nothing. but when I worked with the National Guard,

we had worked with the Navy before, but I had the National Guard, and I had Mountain Dew, right? And I learned in that experience of the difference between trying to promote somebody to buy something off a shelf and somebody to sign up for a life-changing choice, a lifestyle, right? And that was interesting to experience and learn, right?

So you became, this was who you were. You became that. Yeah, your sponsorship worked. Well, got me sign up. What I'm saying is, is like, you know, for me and Mike's sitting here who's never been in the military and never thought that we're going to go sign up tomorrow. You know, you chose to go serve your country, but you become, that's who you, that you become that person.

Yeah, a little bit of career kind of guy. Yeah. Yeah. And so now you're going to re-up again. What is your thoughts of what is, what is that next contract entail, right? What do you think you're going to experience? Are you going back? Well, I felt like at this point that there was probably a small chance that I would go back.

Why? Just the way the rotation is working. And I was the last group to do a full 12 month rotation. So we had a actually while we were there, they had a kind of a spike in guys in Iraq, had to stay 15 months at active duty. But I think they had, by the time the end of my deployment came, they had kind of recovered some of the troop strength.

And they started spacing out the deployments again. So I kind of hedged my bed a little bit and figured that I wouldn't be going. again and I loved it and I just come off that deployment and my contract was up and it was like what are you going to do and part of me wanted to just like walk away you know you did what you kind of signed up to do but the other part of me is like hey at this point I'm I've moved up in rank I'm in charge of guys you know and I can't leave them I want to I want to still be there for them and keep doing what I'm doing and you know it was I guess at that point it was the prime of my military career because I was up in responsibility. I had made rank and I was still

enlisted. I didn't go the officer route. So I was really boots on ground, training guys and having the ability to impact their life, you know, and be a part of their life. So that to me was a big deal, especially after you go through a deployment together. You know, I mean, it's true and it's true from what you see in movies and different things about what happens to guys who go through an experience like that. I don't, you know, my experience and traumatic as it was, was nothing like World War II, Vietnam,

you know, there's guys who have had similar experiences, but at the end of the day, it, it's, they're completely different, you know, each one of those wars. Not to minimize Afghanistan or Iraq, but it is when you look, just look at sheer numbers of people that were killed, it's a

different war, you know, that those guys went through. So, I still felt a tremendous this loyalty to the guys that I was with. And I was close enough to that deployment experience that I didn't really know how to transition out of that probably and probably felt more loyalty to those guys than even my family because of that experience I'd just been through.

Right. So, you know, I didn't come home thinking, I came home thinking I want to be that guy, the dad and the husband, but not able to see that, that is probably the best path for me coming off being gone for 15 months. Sure. Do you realize that you have accomplished your goal of doing something greater with your life after your frustrations with how your racing career ended?

I definitely felt like. Fulfed? Yeah, I felt like I had served my country. I felt like I did my part. you know, you, I didn't, I didn't just train. Yeah, but you, your, you're accomplishments. Like you just mentioned, you said, you, I mean, I'm in, I'm, I'm in my prime. I'm in this position where I'm, I have this responsibility and, and I'm over,

I'm over this group of men. And, like, I don't think you were probably ever imagining seeing yourself get to that point when you went to sign up for basic training. Yeah. Right. And so you've far exceeded expectation, right? and made that time, you know, made that Xfinity career that was actually this really cool, big thing very small.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Do you feel that? I think so. I mean, I think I have an appreciation for it. I think I had an appreciation for it at the time, but it was never enough. You know, like, okay, yeah, you did that. You did a good job.

You did your job well, you know, but okay, what's next, guys? Sure. What's our next, you know? I was too little too committed to the mission than I was at 30 years old. I was a little too, I turned 30 in Afghanistan. So I was a little too committed to being the sergeant that I'm supposed to be than I was able to reflect and say, this is greater than that, or, you know, you accomplished what you were, what you set out to accomplish. And now you should actually think about being a dad.

you know like I wasn't able to I wasn't able to really get there you know like I was still too a little too you know just committed to that being that soldier guy so you signed up for another contract and what did you do during that contract mostly in the military side of things really for the next several years is just we just trained you know just trained train train train near home yeah or you know we would travel I think we went to Saudi one time oh for like three weeks weeks. I think that was actually the last thing I did in uniform was go to Saudi. So yeah, but most of it was, most of it was training. How does your career end with the military? I stepped off the plane coming back. At the end of your contract? Yeah. I still had no, I was, I think that was,

I think I had three months before my contract ended. But I stepped off the plane and I was like, they knew it. I mean, I'd already told them like, hey, this is my last hurrah when I get stuff. of that point I'm not shaving or cut my hair for a year. What year was this? This is 2011. So 2011 is your last year. Yeah. I don't want to put you on the spot, but you're the only one that we have to ask.

It's kind of what this is about. Did you ever imagine that the war in Afghanistan would go on as long as it did, and did all these experiences that you had over there evoke a feeling on the way it ended, which was recently? Yeah, absolutely. Here's the interesting thing about Afghanistan. And why is so different from Iraq? Iraq has infrastructure.

It has assets. It has things that can be used for profit, oil, you know, resources. Afghanistan does not. Afghanistan has one paved road that goes around the whole country. You know, we went to villages that didn't know Russia occupied Afghanistan. Russia occupied Afghanistan for 10 years. Then we occupied for 10 years. And then we went to the village to meet with them, and they were like, we had, we didn't know.

This is the first we've known. So there's a huge disconnect in an average Afghan person and being a Afghani. Like we have such a sense of I'm an American, you know, I fight for my country. They live day to day and they're about, you know, surviving and about their village and about their structure, which is a different structure than our structure. So, you know, it's like you're over there experiencing that trying to get them to see that there might be a better way. And that's not necessarily what they want. They don't know to want it. Right.

And what I was saying earlier is that when they got to know that our life was way different than us boots on the ground in Afghanistan, our life in America was substantially better. and the guys and whoever we interacted with, if they ever figured that out or got to know us to know that we're not the bad people that they make us out to be, then all they want to do is go see that. So you take everybody who is pro-American, and they want to leave the country.

So it's hard to reconcile that, you know. It's hard to say, hey, take that American feeling that you're feeling about how great it is, is, you know, and that unity and the thing that you see in us and apply it to your country. Well, nobody else, you know, wants to do that. You know, so Afghanistan's always felt like that there had to become, there had to be an end. There had to be an end date on when we left the country. But how we left is almost as important as when we left.

and, you know, I didn't dive deep into how that happened. I caught bits and pieces of it, but it sounded like that that was about the worst way that it could happen. And I know that there was no expectation that things would unfold the way they did how fast they did. But, you know, it left me at this point of my life, it left me just heartbroken for those people. because there are, you know, those people there have the same value as far as life as me. You know, they're just as valuable. And what they are facing from, you know, government structure to whatever, their life, the forecast or to look at their life in the future is sad.

You know, it's really, it's really sad. Were you surprised going, going, Seeing what you have seen, were you surprised that the Taliban was able to take control of Afghanistan as quickly as they did? No. I mean, because you were even part of the training of the forces there. I saw it firsthand. I mean, those guys, it goes back to that sense of, you know, if you and I are serving together, there's a sense of, yeah, we may not be on the same page, but you're going to do your part or attempt to do your part to serve your country. you know because you're an American so you should that does not exist they can they could

you know take it or leave it as far as being an Afghan and fighting for their country and if I'm going to get shot you know I mean it's just it's a it's it's you can't explain the difference in culture you know what little bit we know about it and a little bit we've experienced is it's just hard to put it people you're just not going to communicate that to the why would they drop their weapons because that's not something i would do it's not something the normal american would do you know but that's not those they that culture does not think that way and so you're you're having everybody's disappointed i can't believe they didn't yeah but i mean if you've been around that culture you know that that's a absolutely normal response you know like there's just

i'm i'm gonna die to try to save what you know it just it it yeah it's it's it's very disheartening from standpoint of is it going to affect us day to day no but those people and having a chance at a life you know women being able to educate kids kids being able to grow up with some sort of sense of education and better themselves, you know, that's almost eliminated now, and that's heartbreaking. What do we have wrong over here that we think we know about Afghanistan or the Taliban? What do we, what does, what infuriate you about the things that we think we know, but we don't? Well, I mean, I think it's just, it's hard to communicate what life is like in a country like

Afghanistan until you've seen life lived there. You know, like it's hard to say, it's desperate situation. Oh, the women are oppressed. I mean, I saw Afghan people put their daughter outside in the winter and bring the donkey inside. God. That's the synopsis right there of where the value system is in that country. I saw it. You know, like, it wasn't no.

Like, hey, I heard, no, I watched it happen. You know, and you're like, what, you know. But so how do you? You know what I mean? Like it's almost like you can't really communicate the difference in America or Western Civil, however you want to categorize. Let's just take America. You can't, you just can't. And that wasn't, that was, you know, 2007, 8. That wasn't. But like I said, they didn't know Russia was there. There's places that didn't know Russia was there. So they're still living under the same structure, culture, culture that's been there for hundreds of years. You know, same rules system, same value system, that's not changing. And it did, the truth is, it, we did not have the impact that we wanted to have there because I feel like the people that got to understand what we live in are the people that did not want to live in Afghanistan anymore.

And you can't blame them because they've been living around this culture, their whole lives and going, this is miserable. And you're telling me that there's a place that I don't have to worry. about, you know, getting my head chopped off or being, you know, oppressed as a woman. I can, like, walk down the street without a head covering demanded by some man. You know, some of that is cultural, but it's also like, yeah, that's the way we live over here. And that, you know, the normal person here has no appreciation for that because that's the way we live everyday life.

I guess that's why I'm so impressed by your ability to come back and be in actual. acclimate over time back to this, you know, first of all, I can appreciate that you appreciate being over here, but getting back, you know, but that's no, that's no easy transition from seeing that to living. And I just, I guess I understand why you would have taken some time to have to normalize yourself, but also I kind of appreciate even more what you've had to endure on the back end of it. Now, you had another military. contract to probably feel that time and so and it wasn't with combat so I guess that helped but now that you're back how do you start repairing or or or setting up this life that you

now have now like how is that transition and how long did it take so uh came back may of 08 so really 09 and it was you know I I tried to, you know, like, I tried to be that guy, you know, that dad. At the same time, trying to get out of my military PTSD funk. You know, I was trying to, like, to grasp living what it's like to live here again correctly. I was trying to do all that. And that kind of, you know, Tom, they say time heals all looms. time definitely helped in me acclimating and getting back to normal because you know you just

all those realities that you lived in aren't realities anymore so that after enough time passes you're able to you know to kind of transition out of that but I was still like it wasn't I don't know it's probably like a year you know I was a year later that you know I'm kind of back to the guy that I was before I left so in a good way or a bad way in a bad way in a bad way way. In a bad way. Yeah, the jerk, narcissistic jerk who's cheating on his wife and non-existent dad with his kids. You came back to that guy? I did. What the hell? I went to Afghanistan to leave him and that worked. How did you get better? What did you do? I had, through Melanie, I really had a radical encounter with God's love.

Well, explain that. So when we were racing, you were, you were, you appreciated God. Oh, yeah, I said, there was nothing about my life. If you had really known me, you know what I mean? Like, sure. If we had really, if you'd really like, if I had let you, because I was the greatest person that lived a lot. I knew you as God-fearing. Oh, yeah.

You know. With the lights on. Yeah. You had a good, yeah, but you have an amazing. Oh, I said. I stood up on the stage and said. You have a heart. You have a real heart.

Yeah. You're a great friend. You're genuine. You're real. Yeah. You're all those things in 1998, 99, 2000 when we were running around. Yeah. So I know that that's not no, that's not BS.

So what was, what was this epiphany? Well, I mean, I really think it came through Melanie, my wife. How? How in the hell is she still? Yeah, I know. She's the hero of all this. Holy shit. Yeah.

Yeah, she really is. Like, so I was really at the end of myself again, you know, Here we are again. I hate the life that I'm living. Like, I did not want to be that guy. You know? You were hating yourself, right? Yeah, like, I mean, what a jerk.

You know, like, I'm not stupid. You know, I realize that I'm being a dead beat dad, that I'm being a poor husband. Like, all that, there's a, I didn't want to be that guy, you know. But at the same time. You thought you're having a blast. Yeah, at the same time, like, I wanted what I wanted, you know. So I created two people. you know i created the guy that was trying to be the good dad who you know kept up the appearances

and then i created the guy who was also doing what he wanted to do so yeah i was the i was super compartmentalized so that the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing you know like i was the greatest you know keeper of the cell phone you know and the greatest you know you couldn't get you couldn't catch me sure you know and like i said when melony would bring me something like what is this you know and she'd walk away going what how is that you know because that's the way i just i just operated you're right back to that yeah 2011 2012 actually it's 2000 yeah 2010 is when this really happened when this all transformed changed so what happened so she goes uh and so see like while i was in afghanistan spiritually she started thriving because the big bad bear is not in

there putting up you know a cold blanket on everything you know because i didn't i i didn't i i Like, I didn't want to go to church. I went to church because you supposed to go to church, you know, but there wasn't, there's nothing real, anything real about it to me, you know. So she, she goes through this kind of flower blooming while I'm gone, come back, it's hell for a year. It's not hell for a year. It's hell for the back half of that year, whenever I kind of started turning back into that

same guy, you know. So she goes and has this, she goes away, and it leaves me with the kids, which I was mad, that she left. And how many kids are we talking about it? At this point is three. Okay. Where is she going? She's going to this conference in Alabama.

So she goes there and has a just like a radical encounter. You know, like just feel something on the inside of her, you know, I would call it, you know, the presence of God. But she felt something that started like, I don't know what's happening, but I feel a peace. and I feel something real that, you know, that is changing me from the inside out. That's what's happening to her at this thing that she went to. So she comes home and I'm sitting on the couch, you know, she's been gone for three days. I couldn't get in touch with her. You know, I'm super like, I'm aggravated.

Like, why did you go? You know, like, anyway. So she comes and sits beside me on the couch. I'm watching TV and she's looking at me, you know, and she's looking at me like, she's like I don't I've never seen this look before you know a very warm I shouldn't say I never seen it before I know what you mean she glowed yeah it's been a long time yeah since she looked at me like that you know so I'm like freaking out a little bit on the inside like you know because I've got this whole line of lies I'm living and I'm like am I getting ready to

have to defend myself anyway. So she's looking at me like, just so in so much love, you know. And so I'm like, hey, what's going on? And she just looks at me and she goes, you look the way you used to look when I fell in love with you. And I'm like, I mean, I'm really freaking out now on the inside. I was like, okay. And she just looked at me again. And she said, you smell the way used to smell when I fell in love with you. And I'm like, at this point, I'm like freaked out, you know. And so, like, I don't know what to do. From that, for the next week, she's just like not the same person.

Like, she's just loving me with this very genuine love that hasn't been in our house for a long time, if ever. And so, like, I'm trying to figure out what the world looks like because no, there's no, there's no consequences anymore for me like being a jerk. I don't have to come home and negotiate my way out of things and stuff. She's like, I don't care. So what she had done at that point is she told God of like, if I have to leave this man,

I'm going to protect what's happened on the inside of me. Like what's happened on the inside of me is so real. And I feel it so much that I'm willing to leave him in order to protect what's just happened to her. So that's what she said to God. So she comes home and starts loving me like this. So for a week like this is happening. So a week later, like what I don't realize is happening to me

is like how this is affecting me. Like the way that she's loving me is just starting to break me down. You know, like I'm starting to have. and I start having feelings of the reality of who I am. Like, I feel like I was exposed to the condition of my own heart. For the first time, like, I could see it. Like, I could see kind of the person that I had allowed myself to become, and it just broke my heart, you know.

And I think that was such an amazing picture of grace to me, of God being willing to allow me to see, who I am and who I've allowed myself to become, you know, by the choices I made, by the things I wanted, this is who I'd become. And that all happened because of her coming back and loving me that way. And so that week went by and a lot of things happened. We actually went and met Hank and Wendy at the Great Wolf Lodge here. And I was in the middle of dealing with the truth of who I was. Like, I feel like I was in the middle of kind of, like, me dealing with myself, if that makes

sense. And so when Hank and Wendy saw me, they were like, what is wrong with him to Melanie behind my back, you know, like, because I was just, I was so internally conflicted because I'm seeing this, like, I started, I cried by myself for the first time in 10 years. Like this is what this is what's happening on the inside of me. Like this is just there's turmoil. Like I thought maybe I need to leave. Like get away from this. Like I'm, I want to like at that time I have property in Nebraska. Like I'm going to move to Nebraska because I don't want to have to deal with what I'm dealing with of what's happening on the inside of me, you know. Anyway. So at the end of that week,

we're back home from the Great Wolf Lodge and we're sitting in bed. And the whole time she'd be like, what's going on? You know, talk to me. could tell like this guy's about to lose it you know and uh so we we hadn't talked and that night you know like i had felt this sense of the only way i'm going to get on the other side of this is for her to come clean with her that's that's the only path for me to be right is to be right with her you know like to confess hey this is what you you know so anyway that was that was what i was dealing with and wrestling with of my really going to be honest with her, you know. So that week later, one week from the day from her coming home, we're laying in

bed and she says, hey, you know, we need to talk. And I said, I told her, I said, listen, I want to talk, but I don't think you're going to be here on the other side of this conversation. And she said to me, she said, I may not be here, but there's freedom on the other side of this conversation. And, you know, it was in that moment, I was just like, I just broke. You know, I was like, I was so miserable that if that's true, like if what you're saying is true, if there's really freedom on the other side of this, I want that. I mean, that's how broken I was. That's how miserable with the life that I was living.

That's how miserable I was. Like if what you're saying is real, I want that. So I started the process that night of confessing all the things that I was and everything that I had done and, you know, I just unloaded it all. And, you know, what, what a picture of God's grace and love that she responded in love, you know, hurt, obviously, unbelievably hurt, you know, cried all night. What's funny and ironic is that after I told her, you know, everything. thing that I could about told her the truth. I literally like, I don't know, this is probably like 1130 at night or something, but I

like told her and like we talked a little bit longer and I like passed out asleep. But what's ironic is that I had been unable to sleep for years, you know, like just so caught up in the turmoil who I was. I mean, I would take an ambient to go to sleep. I'd take another one at midnight to go back to sleep. I mean, just, you know, like, whoa, this guy is miserable. And that night, bam, after that conversation, I went to sleep and never had problems sleeping after that.

It was that, that's the kind of impact that had and that love and that freedom. But the next day, you know, we started the process of rebuilding our marriage. And, you know, she, in the beginning stages, she was really such a huge. part of that obviously but like and and like I was so I had never felt what that freedom it felt like like real freedom you know like that kind of freedom I'd never felt it so I was almost giddy I was kind of like punch drunk a little bit because I'd been carrying the weight of all this for so long that when that weight was gone like yeah I may be a jerk but I'm not a liar anymore you know like this is this is me and something happened to me um and that

moment something happened in my heart and I think I kind of experienced the same thing she experienced where I felt a freedom and I felt a peace that I had never felt before and I knew that whatever I had to do I wanted to protect that and I told her the next day was like hey if we need to get a divorce or if you want me to move out like I'll do that you know like whatever I need to do you tell me what I need to do I want I'd love for us to try to you you know, reconcile things. I know that, you know, it may be too early to be talking about this. But at the end of the day, I know what's happened inside of me.

And, you know, I would love for us to be able to try to reconcile things. And she said, you know, we're not going to talk to your parents. We're not going to talk to my parents. We're not going to talk to a counselor. You know, we're just going to pray. And we're going to get together. We're going to talk about it. And we're going to see what happens.

and I think a week later was Catfish's wedding and we came up here Hank Junior's brother Yeah So we came up here to go to that And even Hank Because Hank Schenier had seen me You know in the midst of all that turmoil

So he's a week later when he sees me He's like, what happened? You know like I was so different That he noticed visually Like this is a different person He's like what he couldn't stop what happened to you, you know, and I, you know, told them that same story. It's like, man, this is what happened.

And like, we started that process of rebuilding our marriage in that moment. And, you know, it's, I mean, I literally, like, I could not have, it's the second greatest marriage I know of in the earth. I mean, it's better than it's ever been. It consistently is getting better. my relationship with my kids is amazing you know there's no greater honor for me there's no greater responsibility for me in the earth than being a dad like if i can get that part right the rest of it i don't care you know but i i'm finally realizing you know what that means and have such an

appreciation for it and feel like it's the one thing that's missing in the earth you know is real dads being dads and you know i've i've got the i really screwed that up part down you know and now i'm discovering uh and have been discovering what it's like to to be a dad and to be the husband that you know i've always wanted to be you know but here again that being said the hero in all this is melany oh and there ain't no denying that yeah i don't have to restate that no no no i like to make that clear. No, no, it's clear. You want to talk about God's grace. It started the day Melanie came in your life. Yeah. That's, that's where it's started. You know, what's funny, like I can look back that and go, there was something inside of me, that same feeling, you know, that I felt that was there

when I was around her, you know, like I would say, oh, I knew she was the one. But now I can look back and go, it was a little different, that feeling, you know, and I think people have that. I'm not saying it's not that, you have that same feeling with other people, but, but now when I look back at, at our, our dating and our courting and all that kind of stuff, I'm like, whoa, like, you know, God was even in that. Yeah. You know, like, I know that he was a part of that too. That's profound, man.

So, I appreciate you being willing to share all that, you know, and you're, you know, you're probably, you're probably getting some, you're probably getting something out of that, being able to share that. for yourself, you know, you're probably, it's probably part of your process or whatever, you know, is telling those truths. But there's somebody that's listening to this that either is needing to hear this, you know,

somebody that's that jerk. Yeah. That needs to know about that freedom you're talking about. Because I think that a lot of us that put ourselves in that situation, and don't realize the freedoms on the other side that your wife mentioned. And we're fearful about what that means to the relationship and losing our wives and all that, you know.

And I don't know, man. I think somebody's going to gain a bunch out of this. I bet more than one person will. So you finish, you have all that happening here. life, right? And you finish your, this chapter in your life where you're in the military. Where in the world do you go personally to find the next challenge, right, or the next thing professionally that can sustain that, you know, that competitiveness that you need or because you've experienced something

you've experienced two things that a lot of people never will right yeah the driving a race car is a hell of a thing yeah and not a lot of people know what that's like and certainly being in the middle of a war zone serving your country

and dedicating years of your life to that not many people were ever going to realize what that's like you've done both I guess my fear would have been where do I go now, right? Yeah. I know I, you know, you're, you're having this experience in your personal life with your

family, but how do you got this giant void. You have to have this professional void to feel. Actually, what happened in me personally killed that void, that void to be that guy, to be, I mean, I'm like, I'm not that, you know, that ultra competitive, you know, like, I mean, I still enjoy probably a competition every now and then. But no, I know what you're talking about. Very specific. I know what you're talking about.

And that died in this process. Really? Yeah. So what are you doing professionally? What are you involved in? Well, I think I know where this is going. Yeah. So, you know, 2010, we actually moved to Alabama to be connected to that ministry.

that she experienced this in. And there was a guy there that was over that. And I got extremely connected with him and him still very connected with him. And I spent time really developing that connection. And he at the time was traveling a lot and speaking and I would go with him, travel with him. But that really, like, that was very,

that was relational. that was an invaluable, is a invaluable relationship. I said my marriage was the second best marriage I know. His marriage is the first. Numero uno and healthy, unbelievable father, husband, unbelievable amounts of integrity to the, you know, and that's a rare thing in any space, but it seems to be even more rare in a ministry, you know, world.

But anyway, so I really, felt like I want to go and help him, serve him, you know, like travel with him. When I say serve, I mean, go, you know, how can I help? You know, what can I do, you know, kind of thing. And so I did that. And then actually got, came back and started pastoring church in South Carolina, where I'm from. And we kind of was on, I'm still on staff there, but I'm not as in the same.

kind of role that I was. But anyway, through the through that whole process, somebody came to me and said, hey, you need to, I had a lot of people come to me and say, hey, you need to invest in this, which I'm sure you, you know, happens a lot. So anyway, a friend of mine came to me, said, man, this is a business you got to invest in. You need to look at it. And I said, what is it? He said, it's retail. I'm like, well, listen, man, I don't have any retail experience, you know. I mean, he said, I'm telling you, you need to look at. I said, what kind of retail? He said, women's clothing.

And I'm like, I literally laughed. I'm like, come on, man, seriously. Like, at that time, I owned a outfitting business in Nebraska that was taking people on hunts. Right. You know, like women's clothing, seriously? You got to admit, it is funny. Oh, it is. Hilarious.

You know, that's why I never go in the stores, because if you imagine me in a women's clothing store, like, who's the stalker guy over there in the corner? you know i need to leave the tattoos yeah absolutely but um anyway so i was like well the guy that i'm connected to he's like man i really feel like you need to check this business out like it may be a real opportunity so i called the guy back and it's like

well send me all the information on it what turns out it's this amazing little you know at that time had four stores in south carolina it it was a unbelievable experience purchasing that business i was able to do it sold my property in de brashka in order to the business and shut that business down, the outfitting business, which I'm very well suited for for the women's clothing business that I'm not suited for. I was going to say, did you sell the man card with the property in Nebraska at the same time? That's right. Absolutely. So, yeah, so I told the guy that owned the business, like, he was in, he was at the time, was in his 70s, and he had the business for 40-some-odd years.

I think we just celebrated this past year, it's 51 years of active business. and I just told him, I said, if I'm going to do this, if I'm going to buy this business from me, you're going to have to treat me like your son, and you're going to have to help me basically inherit this business from me. You've got to teach me just like as if I'm your son. And he agreed to do that. And we developed a great relationship through that. And he stayed on after the first, I made him commit to a year. And then he stayed on for a couple years after that.

And he stayed involved. And now he's finally retired and hopefully. hopefully retired and joined himself, but bought that business and went about the process of learning that and trying to figure out how to operate women's clothing stores, which I failed more than I succeeded, even though I had a perfectly good model in front of me. I tried to go and do different things with it and wound up coming back to the model that he handed me. And, you know, we survived COVID and we're still going. How's Melanie involved? So in the process of us having that company, the clothing stores, I thought, anyway, we created our own clothing line.

And through that process, it's called Aidan Lane, which is my daughter's name, which she's child number four. She's 10 now. And created this avenue for, really, it started as, hey, we're just going to make some clothes and sell them in the stores because it'll be more profitable. And it turned into something much sweeter and much more authentic. And it turned into Melanie being able to design clothes and come up with just all these amazing different styles and different things. And so we did that for, we designed, or she designed, we created and manufactured clothes, domestic and overseas and did that for a couple years. And then it just got really challenging. This was right

before COVID. It started getting really challenging to manufacture. And so we kind of took our pause on manufacturing. So we haven't been manufacturing over the last, you know, year and a half or so. But two of the stores, we have five stores. Two of the stores are called Aiden Lane, you know, after her. And yeah, it's neat. That whole process of learning how to manufacture clothes and seeing her being able to create clothes and you know it's you just you know Ralph Lauren you just need one good shirt yeah yeah I mean he's got the one shirt that everybody's copied you know so you're you're one good shirt away from creating you know something amazing but even in the process of watching her create and come up with different styles and stuff it's just great to see that kind

of expression be able to be expressed through her you know yeah Amy uh Amy and I, you know, talk about how much she sacrificed and gave up and stopped and put a pause on when we got together and she started going to the racetrack with me. And since I've retired, we've looked for ways to give her a professional outlet, you know, and I was just kind of wondering if that had, you know, if that was what, you know, that was about for you is this is, you know, you. You talked about how you, you know, the competitive I must go achieve part of you has, it's over. Yeah. You know, and you're now devoted 100% to your family and your kids. And if this was a way for her to finally maybe go out and achieve professionally.

I think that more than professionally it was an amazing gift that I had no idea that it was going to become this amazing gift, but it was something that we could do together. Yeah. everything I'd ever done prior to that was me doing it for myself or doing it like it wasn't it wasn't something that we did she didn't really have much to say or would I have listened when I said I'm going to join the military yeah she definitely didn't have any any she wasn't you know the racing was she's along for the ride so it was a beautiful gift to be able to do something that immediately from day one she knows more about it than I do exactly you know yeah I was kind of curious yeah so it's

And from that standpoint, it's very, it's very sweet that we could be doing something that I absolutely know nothing about, but she does. And we can do it together. Is there a website or a place people can go to? Yeah, it's called, it's called Affordable's Apparel, which is the name I inherited. It's not my favorite name. It's great name. It is the name that came with the business. And I've wanted to change it, but realize that it's been in business for 51 years.

and people know it. It's got to get into Charleston. And adenlane.com, which is the website of our clothing brand. I know our listeners will go check that out. I think they would want to support you into your family and everything that. Well, you know, it's got a, I think the beautiful thing is, is it does a good job of capturing the beauty of our story through that brand. Because the truth is, had 2010 not happened, Aidan Lane wouldn't be here.

because she came after that. That's right. Because, I mean, we were, there's no doubt about it. We were headed for divorce, you know? Yeah. So she wouldn't even be here if it hadn't known for what happens. Oh, yeah. Her name means helper on the narrow road, which is my whole, that's what this whole

tattoo right here means, is it's got her name, helper on the narrow road. So there's a gate with the narrow road and it's supposed to be some mountains up there, you know. Yeah. It's supposed to be. I'm not sure that's what it looks like. Yeah. And in our mind, the tattoo artist. in my and this was supposed to look like.

Hey, I have to ask you something completely unrelated real quick because I know we're trying, we're going to probably try to wind this down. But I think you might have listened to last week's show because you seem to know that Dale Jr. was talking about his Bristol, you know, lesson that he got from his dad. And I wonder if you know that your name came up in last week's show. No. Okay. I didn't watch last week's show.

I must have watched around it. Well, let me ask you. Because I saw your crazy day, which I love. Yeah. You know, I loved it because you being a dad. You know, obviously I'm on the dad thing because it's changed my life. I'm on the dad. Thank you.

But to see you operate in that space so well. And also, like, I know that your dad and my dad were very similar in the way that they were not able to communicate how they really felt about us. And to see you, even in a crazy day, be able to communicate, love, and participate with your kids. You know, like, how amazing generationally is their experience. going to be compared to yours. My dad did the best that he could with what he was equipped to do. Your dad, I feel like did the same way. But now as a dad, being able to convey a reality of love that I never knew.

Sure. But that they're experiencing, you know, what kind of impact that's going to have on their life and what kind of people they become and what kind of marriages they have, you know. I was so happy with that just to see you. I know it was crazy and people are biting every there. But I know what that's like, you know. But there's something about dad coming home and the peace that comes with that, you know, and you being in your spot, which is at home, you know, I mean, I know you got stuff to do

and I do too. But there is something special about that. It's incredible. Yeah. It came home last night and got home and it's still daylight out. Luckily, it doesn't always work out that way with the races. But the aisle comes out of the house and runs right to you. Oh, that's what it's all about.

No, yeah. That's the goal right there. Yeah. Lennon, you came up because there was a story with Robert Presley that we were rehashing, and Dale Jr., it was Gateway, and we couldn't really remember this story well. Dale Jr. thinks he wrecked you. Robert thinks Dale Jr. wrecked Robert, and it was a very hot day. So I didn't think I wreck you.

So when we had Robert sitting here, he's like, you know, do you remember what was it like with me and Robert, right? And he's like, we really, we never talked. Me and Robert didn't talk, right? He was, we just didn't talk, not good or bad. He said the one day I remember was racing at St. Louis. He spun out and he said he saw me coming and he saw my eyeballs and I ran into him. And I said, I thought I ran into Linden first. I come off the corner and you were sitting there, I thought.

But he says it was him. But anyways, it was hot as hell. 97. You were all dying. Yeah, I pitted for water. People did die. Yeah, in the stands. So you remember the race.

Oh, yeah. I remember. You don't remember Dale coming in. When I come off the corner off turn two, I thought it was you ahead. Apparently it was him. But you two were also in the crash. I mean, I bounced off. I was racing.

That's probably, yes. I was definitely in the crash. No, no, no. That's not what we're trying to get at. He said I was racing. I was definitely right. I was glad to crash. I just wanted to get out of the car.

That was the story. He wrecked on purpose. Yeah, it was. Did you? Maybe. He came clean. He had to. I love.

I love that. I love that. When you watch the replay, it's obvious that I didn't wreck on purpose. We come up off the corner, and the 59, Robert's sitting sideways in the track, and we come up off the corner, and there were four or five of us in a line, and everybody went to their own lane. Surprise. There's Robert.

Yeah. At the tightest part of the whole track. And I make a maneuver to go left, but it's just too late. But, boy, I'm glad I did. And I think I hit you. So I hit him and hit you. I hope he took me out, too, because I want it out of that. Y'all had that in common that day.

I do remember that once I hit him, I saw the inside guardrail and I thought, I'm driving this thing into that. If I didn't do it, if I ain't driving this damn car, I ain't running this thing right here, broken all day. I'm going to send it to this inside wall. Be done. Be done. Because it was hotter.

I mean, that was the hottest I've ever been in my life. I mean, I've had many, for some reason, I guess because I'm so big and I have to sit so low in the car when I was driving. But I burned myself in every way possible at one point or another. It didn't matter if it's in the trucks or the buseries. My feet were constantly burned. I mean, it was always something. It's like you don't realize how hot it gets inside those cars.

I mean, I'm burning flesh hot. And then you go to St. Louis, and it's like triple digits hot. And you're inside that hot race car. It was the most stagnant, miserable experience that you could ever be. I mean, I literally remember coming down pit road. It was 97 because we came down pit road and pitted for water. Yeah, I believe it. Yeah.

And that probably just, that probably was a disappointing. Like, you know, you're like, oh, shit. Yeah, it turned to steam. You didn't do nothing. Portless. Completely pointless. Hey. Man, I appreciate you coming.

It's been great to see you. Yeah, absolutely. I was, I was, you know, listen, I'm very honored. Like, I understand, you know, my racing. Like I did not succeed as much as I wanted to, obviously. I'd still be doing it. You know, like, I didn't either. If I had not progressed through my life and career the way I did, I wouldn't be where I am today.

And I'll take where I am today over anything else. Amen. By far, you know, 100%. Yeah. Well, your story is amazing. It really is. And I'm really happy that you're happy. You know, we were friends a long time ago.

And when you make friends, you kind of always want the best friends. form, even though we may not see each other from time to time, but I'm thrilled to hear that you've gotten yourself to where you are, you know. It's pretty awesome. Yeah, well, it's been, it's been a crazy ride, you know, and I think people think that I'm like some sort of adrenaline junker, but that's really not my personality. You know, it's just kind of the way that I've been, you know, navigated through life. And I'm very happy, and I couldn't be happier where my life is at 40, whatever, 44 years old. But I'm very, I think the difference is now instead of looking back and going, oh, man,

I wish I'd done that. I don't look back in with any regret, you know, other than, I mean, I just regret with behavior stuff. But I mean, from the standpoint of, I look back in my life and go, I'm thankful that it didn't turn out the way I wanted it to turn out. Yeah. Because it's gotten me to where I am today, you know. Well, you got a lot left.

Yeah, absolutely. I told my kids last night because they were talking about, I forget what they're saying. But that's like, I'm not halfway yet. I mean, I think I've got a grandfather that lived to be 103, and I got a grandmother that lived to be 97, and I got another grandmother that's 95 still alive. I'm going to. I'm going on those jeans.

Well, we appreciate you, buddy. Thank you, Lennon. Lennon Amick on the Delginer Downland. You guys thought that you only saw the fastest speeds at Talladega this past week, right? You thought 200 miles of power must be the top, must be the ceiling. I'm here to tell you that is not true Matthew Dillner. It's not true, Leavon. There is a glorious racing stories podcast coming to you this week that is about 17,500 miles per hour.

Do you believe me? That's a lot of miles per hour. Right, right. There was no restrictor plate on this particular vehicle. This is about traveling to space. That's right. This week, glorious white knuckle, Godfearing spun out and half turned over racing stories, takes you up and out of this world with NASA,

Space Shuttle pilot, Doug Hurley. Race fan, Doug Hurley, big race fan. Huge race fan. And the final flight of the Space Shuttle program, it's pretty wild stuff. So you don't want to miss it. I'm really pumped to hear that. Rick Houston's killing it on that podcast there. Hey, did you guys, you know, I noticed that I've seen some new t-shirts.

Matthew Dillers wearing a new Dirty Moe t-shirt this week. Got the red one? Yeah, the Laguna. Is that your favorite? No, I like the Ralph R and Hart. Of the new Dirty Moe original line? Yeah. You like the Ralph Earnhardt, which would be, we call them either red, white, or blue.

You like blue. But you're wearing red. I'm wearing red. I got you. Leah, do you have a favorite? I got the blue one. You got the blue one. Are you wearing it?

I can't see it. I am not wearing it because it's too cold in the studio to wear a T-shirts. It's true. It is pretty cold. Maybe we should do those sweatshirts. If we turn the heat on, then I will wear a Dirty Moe t-shirt. Well, you can get red, white and blue. The red one is, again, it's the Laguna on there.

This Dirty Mo original line that we're going. I'm telling you, we're throwing it back now. We ain't messing around with any modern day stuff. We're throwing it back. It's the retro line. It's going to be fantastic. We've got other shirts in mind that we're going to be putting out. Hats.

Get a lot of requests for hats online. You know, Dale Jr. is not at the table right now as we talk about this. So I've even got some ideas that I don't want to run by him. Not because I'm trying to skirt by him. I'm trying to surprise him. I'm taking a gamble. And it is a gamble, you guys. I tell you that sometimes.

he doesn't think the way you think. The way you think he thinks. He'll surprise you. However, I'm taking a gamble. I've got an idea. I think he'll like it. So this will be a shirt that Dell is not approved, but I bet he wears.

All right? I'll tell you about it later. You can get these shirts right now in the Junior Nation Retail Store or online at dirtymomedia.com. Click on store. You'll go right to it. A lot of other stuff.

We're wearing a hat today that's in the store. Oh, yeah. You see this? I like that Carolina Blue one. I knew you'd call it Carolina Blue. I don't call it Carolina Blue, although that is exactly what it is. Damn straight. Right.

There's got to be a, I need to know what the PMS color to this is, so I can actually call it accurately. I saw that you totally Alabama. That's not Alabama. That's what Wendy thought was Alabama, but Alabama's color is PMS 251, and that is not PMS 52. No, that's way off. But there's a lot of kinds of new stuff. Go check out the store. Door bumper clear, big.

They didn't get the tape on Monday. Sloppers. So they're actually going to tape tomorrow as I tape this podcast on a Tuesday. They're going to take tomorrow. Yeah, Freddie Kraft actually won a race. Damn. Freddy Kraft. I guarantee you right now he's on a flatbed.

He needed like double hook to get out of it. Oh, you think he patroking adult beverages? Think? He's gone. How drunk do we have access to a breathalizer test? He's sleeping in a bush somewhere probably right now. Can we get a breathalyzer test? It would be funny to know what number he blows.

Oh, it's like Bob Proberd-esque. Who's driving him here? No, he'll be fine by Wednesday. If we're doing it Wednesday, if we're doing it today? He will not be fine by Wednesday. If we're doing it today, he would be Ubering here. Well, if he blows a number, we need to make sure he has an Uber. Hey, we can get a Beth Lizer on Amazon.

Ooh, sweet. We got Prime. Yeah, dirty Moe's got Prime. I don't know. I think we should do it. We're on a budget here. How funny would that do it? We can get one between, fine. and 10 p.m.

Anyways. Look, this is going to be the week. By the way, door bumper clear set records two weeks ago on the highest numbers that they've ever got. I'm real proud of them. Good stuff. By the way, television show, this is a show that does appear on NBC Sports Network every week. That is the Dale Jr. download Thursday at 6 p.m. Eastern Time. Dale Jr. is heading back in the studio.

We're going to let him close it down. Go for it, Dale. Well, Mike, it's a great show. Linden was awesome. What an incredible interview. Great-ass junior questions. Yeah. Pretty good open segment.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, it was a show where we all owned up to mistakes today. Isn't it? Yeah. I think this was, it would be interesting to hear what people think, but I think this is going to be people's top three, on you?

I do, man. Thank you. And I appreciate everybody listening. We'll see you. Have a good week. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Dirty Mo. You're going to do it.

You're going to win it. You're going to win it.