The Dale Jr. Download - 370 - Al Unser, Jr.: For All My Sins

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

A pair of Champions, two-time Indianapolis 500 winner Al Unser Jr. and two-time Daytona 500 champ Dale Earnhardt Jr. come to the table to talk about Unser's spectacular life, career and a fall from grace that few could even imagine. Unser Jr.'s resume reads as a fairy-tale, but behind the scenes, his real life was anything but. Most saw the feel-good story of "Little Al," son of a four-time Indy 500 champion, blossoming to become his own success in the Indycar ranks. Seemingly overnight, he was a winner and then a Champion. Hidden in the shadows of the celebrations was the dark side of the driver. Cocaine, marijuana, alcohol abuse, prostitution, and a chain of arrests all took his life to the lowest of lows. How low? In 2012, alone in his apartment, Al Unser Jr. was on the verge of suicide.Unser's career, like the family before him, was defined by the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. The Unser's have won the world's most famous race nine-times. It took a tangle with Emerson Fittipaldi in the 1989 running of the 500 to put the pressure to win at the Brickyard on Al Jr. In 1992, on his tenth try, in a near photo finish, the young Unser crossed the yard of brick a victor. He details the dramatic last lap with Dale Jr. and co-host Mike Davis and describes the emotion that overcame him.Despite being an IROC Champion, Al only made one career NACAR Cup Series Start, in the 1993 Daytona 500. He tells Dale Jr how a phone call may have led to crashing (wink, wink) their primary car in order to roll out a faster Hendrick Motorsports #46.Growing up Unser wasn't easy. From a demanding Uncle to a Champion father, there was a lot to live up to. Al Jr. reveals how his parents divorce at a young age set the stage for an up-and-down upbringing that included racing, crime and mischief. Despite the challenges, Al Jr. just wanted to race. He admits that "racing was his escape."Despite a long fight with substance abuse, Al sits at the table a new man. Is he forgiven by all? Has he forgiven himself? These days, the 59 year old finds his redemption in his walk with faith. Unser Jr. shares how it has given him new life.Before Al Unser Jr. arrived, Dale and Mike went over a wild NASCAR weekend in Fontana. They discussed everything from flat tires, weird tow-trucks to the run-in between Hendrick teammates Kyle Larson and Chase Elliott. Speaking of teammate tension, Dale calls in Josh Berry to the studio to talk about his California clash with JR Motorsports teammate Justin Allgaier.Dale, Mike and producer Matthew Dillner welcomed a new member of the DJD team, Hannah Newhouse. She brings a plethora of fan questions in Ask Jr. We learn some insight into the potential Fontana reconfiguration. Of course Dale Jr. wants more Short Tracks and rallies for it, but is he sour to the idea of a Chicago Street Course race? Did you know Dale wants to be involved in the music scene? DJ Dale explains. All of that and much more on a packed episode. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The contents of this conversation today may be sensitive to some listeners. If you have thoughts of suicide, please know that help is available. Call the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 800273-8255. That's 800273-8255 or visit Suicide Prevention Lifeline.org. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. Each 500 is unique. Dwayne Swigie waves the white flag. What to go?

Three carlake separation between Unzer and Goodyear. It's filled with stories that feed a soaring spirit or pull at the heart. Al-Azer Jr. has the lead. One more turn to go! A checker flag is out. Good Year makes a move! When you don't care about whether you're going to live or die, what's most important is winning, and he has done it today.

Each journey leads to greatness. There sounds like there's some tears in your voice right now. Well, you just don't know what Indy means. what indie means. What will today hold? Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. back again in the Bojangles studio here for the Dale Jr. download and awesome episode today. Mike Davis, my co-host is here.

What's up, buddy? Matthew Dillner. He's here too, yep. And we got a new member of the team. That's right. Hannah, Newhouse. Whop-whoop. Hannah, she's a dirty moan media regular.

That's right. But she's never been on the big show, right? because, you know, I saw the DBC comments yesterday, Hannah. Did you see that? They were trying to dispute this with you. They called you guys the minor league. That's what they did. I will have, you know, Napoleon complex.

I saw that, but I also saw some of their support, you know, fans of the show, fans of Doorbumpur clear, really backing up their statements. Yeah, no, it's been cool. I appreciate the invite. Hey, we're so thrilled to have you here. And we were thinking, man, you know, it's going to be difficult to feel that position. Leah was so great. but man I feel great about having you here and excited about seeing

how she's going to bring her little special touch to the show yeah she knows what she's talking about and also I did notice that somebody was asking if you were single and that the first person to like that tweet was Dylan her fiancee Dylan Welch I didn't even see that tweet until you text me and I said hey Dylan I heard you've been liking tweets about people ask me if I'm single and he just smiled and laughed and walked away so he's on it don't worry just want to make for the record we're pro dillon in this like i don't want to encourage anybody sitting there trying to hit on you because of us here right we're pro

dillon he will appreciate that yes well we're excited about that and uh feels like we got a uh great show for you al answer junior's going to come on and uh can't wait to get to that he's going to be incredible wrote a new book called a checkered past and jade gersh helped him write this book who helped me write or I wrote a book with Jade. That's right. Early in my career. So I know that experience. You worked with Jade.

He was my boss. That's right. This is going to be an incredible episode. But let's get right into an open segment. So Mike, let's talk about teammates. All right. Good weekend to talk about that. Yeah.

So, well, first off, the next gen car is big success. Everybody's pumped up. Saw a great race. it's the first race at a, you know, a real racetrack. Now, Daytona's a real racetrack. You know, I love Daytona. But this is our first experience on what we're going to see a lot of, and that's mile and a halfs.

And we'll have to see how the car performs at places like Phoenix and short tracks and so forth. I don't really think that the clash gave us any indication what the car is going to be like on smaller tracks. But here we are, great racetrack, Fontana, which we didn't run at last year, which is also in the rumor meal for being reconfigured into a short track. So there's a lot to unpack here. Everybody loved the race from what I can tell. I always go by the Jeff Gluck pole. Was it a good race?

Very simple. Blanket pole. But I go by that. I trust that. Okay. Everybody said it was great. I felt like I was absolutely in the majority. And I text Steve Phelps and I said,

hey, man, this is like a modern take on what I love about the history of the sport from a competitive competition standpoint. We had guys spinning out. You didn't know, somebody might spin out any minute. Yeah. Right. In the lead. When's the last time we've had that suspense?

Right. That's been missing. Hard to drive. Yeah. So cars are, you know, just spinning out for no damn reason. And guys are crashing, getting stuck on the racetrack with flat tires. A little bit, you know, they'll sort that out. But it was drama.

It was really, really cool. What an amazing racetrack. that track right there at Fontana, multiple grooves, and you can see why drivers love it, and it creates a lot of opportunities for passing and great racing side by side. With this car, they can beat on each other. They can hit the wall to a point.

So it just really checked a lot of boxes, and there was no glaring, oh, this sucks. No. Right? There was no big red flags, right? Some will say that the car is stuck on the red, racetrack is a red flag, but I don't. Don't spin out. Don't get it flat.

No problem, right? Right. It's not supposed to be easy. You're supposed to be able to figure these things out. And so the only way you don't like that is if you just don't like fun. And there's people out there that don't like fun and I can't help you. NASCAR's got this funky looking terribly visually frustrating crane mechanism that pecks the cars up and carries them back to the garage.

I don't understand what the hell that is. But, I mean, it's like, it reminds me of the PVC pipe. that they put stuck, you know, remember when drivers were jumping on the roofs of the cars? They'd win the race, jump out of the car, jump on the roof. Well, they were doing that because they were damaging the roof of the car. So when it would go through tech and below, they'd be like, well, it's because we jumped on the roof. It's not because we're cheating. And then NASCAR said, well, we'll put some PVC pipe on the driver's side of the car in Victor Lane

that's going to block the drivers instead of just saying, you know what, don't jump on the roof. They bring in this, wait, wait, wait, wait, before you get out. silly looking PVC pipe thing look like a miniature feel gold brilliant yeah this will fix it this will get them well that's what that

little crane mechanism they pick the car they bring it out it's hanging off of the back of the record dangling around and let's get this thing hooked up to this car this tire's bent that's not going to work it's hilarious but anyways so I find some humor in that but I was

was thrilled with the race. Can't wait to see the next one. I was standing up in front of my television watching that last few restarts. I did the same thing Saturday for the Xfinity race. How bad ass was that? So we had... Well, wait a second. You asked, are you suggesting that the rumor of taking Fontana and turning it into a short track, this might have actually changed your mind on it because you are Mr. Pro Short Track here. Yeah. So let me, I got a little bit of information. Oh, yeah. All right.

Yardell Jr. So let's just all agree that Fontana's a great racetrack. Yeah. Okay. And I think most of us would say, for now, let's shell, the idea of changing it. Let's keep on, let's keep digging. Until a repave. Yeah.

I absolutely, they have to dig that back straightaway up and pave that son of a gun. Come on. I mean, if you're going to do anything, don't grind it. It's not working. You're going to grind down to eventually where you're going to have. have to repair it anyways. It's too bumpy. The drivers say it's way too rough.

These cars are hopping up and down. Rear tires coming off the ground. Just cut the back straight away out of the racetrack and put new asphalt down so where it's smooth. Leave the rest. Leave the rest like it is. Anyways, I think we can finish, we can put a period on that and move on to Fontana's future.

So, I may get in a little bit of trouble with this because... Yeah, I'm curious. Some of this isn't... Maybe not supposed to be public knowledge. But it is public knowledge that I raise. racing and NASCAR have an agreement to where they are working together to design the next-gen car, right? That was a, that was a little bit of work with high racing and NASCAR.

They designed the car, and they raced it in the virtual sense, and maybe NASCAR learned some things from that experience before we ever saw the car on the racetrack, okay? We also know that NASCAR and I racing designed a street course, a fictional street course for Chicago with the idea of possibly running a street course race in Chicago. So those are examples of iRacing and NASCAR working together

to solve some problems, right? Or to cut some corners on development. There's been other areas, other times when NASCAR and iRacing have worked together on racetrack configuration. They did this with Atlanta. I racing and Atlanta

got together and said, hey man, we want to change Atlanta. Let's just try it in the virtual world and make sure we're not making a big, massive multimillion dollar mistake. So it's allowing the real world, whether it's NASCAR, these track owners, to see how things look in a virtual sense, to check a lot of boxes before they actually go forward and start digging up dirt and moving things. This is what they did with Fontana.

I-racing created various different styles of short tracks with the footprint of Fontana in mind. The problem is that Fontana wants to fit this short track between the sweets that are in the pits. Right. And they want to utilize what is the front straightaway, right? So you want to keep the start, finish line

where it is, keep the flag stand, keep the front straightaway, go down the front straightaway, make a turn, and then basically come back, you know, down the pits is the back straightway. Come back up, pit road. Right. Yeah, the other way, right. And when I racing built this version, in a virtual world,

it didn't work. The corners were too tight. Because the front straightaway is banked, as much as it is at Fontana, the turns will need to be banked as well. Very steep banks, similar to Bristol. And it just was,

it was too small and too narrow of a racetrack. And the advice was then, hey, this isn't going to, this probably isn't a good move. The geometry is not really jarring. The geometry transitions, the corners are really, really tight. This isn't going to fit in this space that Fontana really prefers it in. Can we move these sweets?

Oh, all right. Now that's when it gets difficult. That's when Fontana might go, might go. I don't know. I don't think we want to get into that detail of, that's, that may be going beyond what we're willing to invest in this redesign, reconfiguring. And so I'm not saying that this all is why the track might not get reconfigured, but I think that it's a great thing. Knowing what I know about what has happened in the virtual world with how this track would fit or might not fit.

I'm just saying, I hope they don't do it. I think that they, the things that they hope to learn through the experience with iraicing didn't check all of the boxes for anybody, for Fontana, for me, from what I saw. And I hope they leave the track as it is. Now, whatever ends up happening, I don't know. But we certainly could use more short tracks on our schedule. But I do not like the idea of losing a great race track

that puts on amazing racing for the idea of a short track that I don't know is going to work. Fair enough. I'm not willing to make that trade. Anyways, that's where I think Fontaine is. I don't think that in the near future it gets reconfigured. I feel like, though, that the price of the land, the NASCAR being encouraged to take advantage of being able to profit from a sale of any of the land around there,

confining what they can do in that space may squeeze them down to either not racing there at all one day and just selling the entire property. I don't know if it stays the way it is, Mike. I don't know if I think that their intention is at some point. to sell some of this land and some of this land has racetrack surface on it. Does that make sense? No, it makes perfect sense. It's unfortunate sense maybe.

Yeah, so we may be going, we may be funneling down to an, to an, in, we may be funneling down to a unavoidable consequence of either reconfiguring the track or not running there at all. I don't know. Right. Anyway. For now, on this past weekend, it lived up to what it, uh, its potential. You'd say that.

Yeah, it's awesome. Just fix the bumps. Fix the bumps. With new asphalt. There you go. Yeah. Freaking. Take that.

Just do it. Stop this grinding mess. You saw it. Didn't work. No. Drivers say it's two. Five years ago. Yeah.

Drivers say it was too rough. Yeah. So the teammates situation that you started off. So the teammates, we had a cup race where you had Hendrick teammates getting into each other at the end. So coming off the, you know, coming off to turn four down the front straight. way, Larson and I believe Lugano are racing side by side, and Larson's down on Lugano's right door side drafting. There's a little bit of room on the outside.

One thing I love about these cars is that when two guys are racing side by side, the guy and third gets his massive run. And it's a big run enough for him to go around and pass. So the other cars didn't do that. I'm serious. They just didn't get these kind of runs. But this car, it's very dragging on the nose and something about it, man. Here comes Chase Elliott, and he sees a wide open lane on the outside of Larson, and he's going for it.

And Larson moves up the racetrack, whether intentional or not. He says he didn't know he was there and runs Chase into the fence. Chase, you know, is upset. Obviously, you know, it's a warranted reaction or emotion. Sure. He's mad. You run me in the wall. What the hell, you're my teammate.

Well, you know, interesting enough, we had the same situation, a similar situation in Saturday's race with our guys. Justin Algar gets a little bit loose, gets out of shape off of turn two, and Josh Barry's right behind him. They're both in the top lane against the wall,

and Josh runs in the left or quarter panel of Justin, puts Justin in the fence, and goes on down the straightway. And it sucks. Justin's mad. Yeah. And you hear it on the radio.

Did they just wreck me? That's my teammate. No, did I just, that just really happened? And so I thought it was interesting. Two races, two teammates having issues. And I thought, you know what, Mike, we got this microphone, right? We got a, we got a microphone.

There it is, right? You put that here for this year. Yeah. It's a new thing in this studio. I wanted you to have the opportunity to call in people on a fly and say, hey, get in here. Talk to me about something. Are you suggesting you got one? I don't know.

Is Justin or Josh here? Yeah, I can get them. Go get them. Let's try to get them. I saw them in there. Let's try to get Justin and Josh in to talk to us about this. All right, we got them. All right, both of them?

Yeah. No kidding. All right. All right. So, Mike, look, you know, if they want to go on and debate what happened on the racetrack, fine. But I'm more interested in how to handle it going forward. What's up, Josh? Josh, there's your mic.

You're standing up. You're not sitting down. Wait. I thought you said he had both of them. He did. No. You did? No.

I was here. Yeah. Look, I'm not dreaming this, am I? So he doesn't have both. I don't have both. You don't have both? Al-Geyer is texted back here and he's on a plane going to Atlanta. Al-Gair's not here.

Al-Garer is going to Atlanta. Okay, but Josh is here. Josh is here. Josh, did you send him on a plane to Atlanta? Is that what you did? No, he did his prior obligations. Why is he going to Atlanta? What the hell is with the place is in Vegas?

All right, group text. So, all right, so, all right, so. We were just talking about it, Josh, and thanks for being here. Thanks for coming in, being able to step in here on the fly for a few seconds. Teammates racing at Fontana, we had the, you know, we had, what, did you watch the cup race on Sunday? Yeah. All right, so you saw what happened between the five and the nine, and you saw Chase, I thought Chase tried to swipe at him when he came back off the wall. I don't know if it.

I mean, there's a rack opinion. It's very fast, and maybe he's overreacted. But I thought, too. but when Chase is getting lapped, you know, he comes up the racetrack in his lane, and he's kind of wandering around the front straightaway. You could sense in his body language that he was mad, and he probably was, right? So you had the same experience with Justin on the racetrack. Y'all got together off turn two.

You run into him and he hits the wall, and he's mad. He comes over the radio. So what is the, what do you do after the race? What happens after the race? How do you handle it? Well, I think it's kind of situational based on what happened. I mean, initially for me, after the race, I would rather, I would rather, you know, wait a night or day and kind of let everybody cool off. And then like a situation like this with the teammates, you know, you're going to be in a room on Monday discussing the race and kind of use that as an opportunity to discuss it and kind of work through what happened, I guess.

So all the fans say, I want to be a fly on the wall for that competition meeting at Hendrick on Tuesday or Monday. So what is that competition meeting like? It's pretty controlled, I feel like. I mean, ours was. I think it just depends on the scenario. Me and Justin talked after the race at the track, and that was a little more heated than it probably should have been between the two of us. And then I think that's what I mean.

By Monday, I think everybody's kind of calmed down. You've had a chance to watch the replay, kind of digest what happened, and each side's going to have an opinion of the incident, and then you kind of work it out and discuss it and hopefully come to, some sort of conclusion on it, I guess. At what point after the race is over, and it can be even before you park it, do you start thinking about you've got to go make amends

or you've got to go talk this out? And then my second question to that is, are you looking forward to it? I mean, I think, I mean, really as soon as the incident happens in the race, you think that that's something that you're going to have to address. You know, for this week, in particular, I really didn't know exactly what happened. And I think that was some of what my frustration with Justin after the race was, because that situation, obviously I saw, you know,

I saw him get loose, but I didn't know he got into the fence. And I was trying to tell Justin that that I didn't know what happened. I needed to watch it, right? Like I wasn't prepared to have a conversation about it until I actually saw the full replay. And I think that's where it comes to where I was talking about that. I think sometimes it's better to just wait a little bit, sleep on it and kind of revisit it. What's the one thing you don't do, whether you, I guess, if it's teammates or not, what's the one thing that is a no-no in terms of trying to sort out the disagreement? You mean after the fact or?

Yeah, all after the fact. So, like, I would say, like, if a guy hits me and, especially if I get into the wall and he doesn't text me or call me. Like, maybe it ain't a teammate, maybe it's another driver. Yeah. And I go all the way to the next race and I ain't heard from that guy, then he's on the list. Yeah.

Right. As soon as I get a chance, as soon as I get a chance to put him in the same situation, I don't care how long I got to wait, I'm doing it. Well, I think you, I guess with what you're saying, I mean, for one, I mean, one thing is probably not to completely ignore it. I think that everybody handles the situations differently. Like to me, I think if I,

if I was in that situation and receiving a text, I'm not really sure that that would really mean a whole lot to me. You know, but I would prefer, you know, if somebody come up to me in person, I think that would be, you know, I would be perfectly fine with that, even if it was before the next race, like you said. So I don't know, it's just how you want to handle it, I think,

but ultimately, especially with the teammate situation, I mean, it has no choice but to get handled. Because you have to handle it because, I mean, there's, you know, 100 people here that work that are watching these cars race and we all have to understand that they want us all to do well and we can't be running into each other. All right, man.

Well, hey, we appreciate you stepping in. Justin was here to give us his opinions on how to handle things like that, but we're glad you're in the building so we can grab a few questions. If Justin would have been here, I mean, if it was still unsettled, would you have fought him and could you have won? No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Don't even answer it.

All right, thank you, Josh. Good luck in Vegas. You know, this reminds me, I can think of two incidences in your career where you had run-ins with teammates. I can think of one with Jeff Gordon at Bristol, where he was real hot at you. And then, of course, the infamous one where you and Michael Waltrip at the 2005, right? That's the one where, you know, to listen in to Josh, Josh has a good point. And his point is that he didn't have anybody to tell him what happened. He didn't know.

And I remember with that situation with Michael Waltrip, 2000. 2005 may have actually been the All-Star race. I can't remember. Maybe the 600. But then Tony Yuri Sr., there was just a lot of tension between the teams. And I remember when you parked, I was your PR rep at the time. And so all I knew is that there was going to be a lot of media at your car, and you needed to be told what has happened while you were racing.

And that was that Tony Sr. basically held a state of the union address right there in the garage for all of Dale and Hart Incorporated. and absolutely blasted you. So I remember sliding you a note saying, go straight to the holler. And just in typical you fashion, you're not going to ever just take a note and say,

without going, what do you mean, go straight to the holler? And I'm like, just get to the holler. We've got to talk about this. And he's like, I don't know. I talk about everything right now. And so it's like, okay, you know, I had to tell you,

hey, you're about to get asked about a lot of comments that Tony Sr. said about you. And it was just, wow, that was the first time I remember teammate tension. and having to figure that out. And it did sort itself out, but it was not without its difficulties. No, it wasn't.

Anyways, I think we're going to, speaking of, that, there was a lot to all of that. We actually got a pretty awesome show next week. That's a good point. That's a good point. Matthew, are the Yuri's going to be in that? Next week we're doing the best of,

and we've got a theme show for next week, and it's going to be Delinart Incorporated. people. Yeah. And kind of like the highlights of each of those interviews, right? Yeah, that's a good point. And I see where you're going, Dale. So think of Dale Jr. Download best of, but we're going to basically compact or package the DEI content into one show. So you're going to learn

a lot about it next week in our DEI show edition. Good stuff. My sins God denies me to happen on judgment day, Mama, won't you cry? All right, so this is a guest that I'm super excited about. I mean, of course, excited about all the guests that we have on the show. But Alasher Jr., I mean, I'm a junior. I understand what it must have been like for him kind of coming up with the expectations

in the shadows of his entire family, right? Legend. And so, and he did it. He made, you know, he succeeded. He's also had a lot of personal struggles. I don't know the man, right? I don't think I've met him too many times. So I did not know that he would,

ever be in a place where he's open to discussing all of his experiences, good and bad, right? But he's recently wrote a book with Jade Gers, who we know. You worked with Jay. Jade and I wrote a book together. And we had Jade on the show just recently. That's right. And talking about that book a little bit. So we know now that Al Juner's out there speaking about his experiences.

And so we got to get him in here. I'm eager to hear what he has to say. and to talk to him and to celebrate him a little bit, but also, you know, figure out where he's at and what he's learned, you know. So I have been chomping at the bit excited today and what we're about to do, Mike. I can't wait to talk to him either. I don't even think we should waste time. I'll just say that Jade Gers had sort of set the table for us when he wrote this book.

He was in here. The preface alone hooks you. You can't get past the preface without just going, oh, my gosh, we've got to have Al Jr. on this show. So I'm looking forward to it. Let's get him in here. Let's do it. Al Unter Jr. Let's bring him in.

Bobby Unzer, young fellow here at the Speedway and his first year driving. All he has to do really is watch his son and make sure that he's right behind him no matter what happens.

He moved up next to his dad to offer his special congratulations for a job well done. Little Al hasn't won yet, but this may not be the last Unser victory by any means. in the Indy 5. I don't think it will.

They almost touch me. Oh, good touch. And then to the wall is Al Jr. He hits the lead straightaway. The start, finish line. Who's going to get it? Dwayne Swedey waves the white flag. One to go.

A three-carlake separation between Hunter. Goethe's Jr. has the lead. One more turn to go. Here they come. Coming to the finish line. Bob Jenkins, who's going to win? The checkered flag is out.

The Goodyear makes a move. Little Al wins by just a few tenths of a second. Good evening, everyone. Two-time Indy-500 winner Al Unser Jr. Out on bail tonight. Unsur was booked into the Hendricks County Jail at 3.30 this morning. Little Al-a-Las, he's known in racing circles has allegedly made. At about 1.30 this morning before what we're being accused of operating wild intoxicated.

How bullism is a disease. And according to the battles, Al-Juier was verbally hostile to all of the officers. There he is. Hey, place you have. You like? Yeah, we're proud of it. Yeah, when I was here a few years ago, was this here? Yeah.

It was. Okay, I just didn't see it. No. It just, and it didn't look like this either. So we've changed it up a little bit. Broad bunch of our junk in here. There you go. Yeah.

So how are you? I'm good. Yeah. You look great. Thank you. Where'd you come from? In Annapolis. Okay.

So what are you doing these days? What are your time? I'm with a new team. It's called Future Star Racing. And we're basically first step out of go-carts. So single-seat open-wheel car, SCCA, Formula 4, and F-R, which is Formula Regional, but it's a Formula 3 car. And so trying to bring the kids up out of the go-carts and trying to pass on what was given to me. So freely from Dad and Uncle Bobby. have you been messing around with something like that so how long have you been sort of interested in helping a couple years yeah yeah yeah I think uh it was 2020 and uh we got into it in the summertime and and so we've been doing it ever since yeah did ernie Francis come up in that program because we he was on our show last week yeah yeah and was he not part of that ernie was with our team last year yeah okay yeah yeah what do you think about ernie he's good yeah

I watched him in the pilot, watched him in the lights race this weekend and did a great job. Yeah, I missed it. I missed it. I didn't get to see it. He just kept it clean, kept it out of trouble.

A lot of the guys didn't, and he ended up finishing mid-pack, started last, so it was pretty good. I thought it was good, yeah. Street courses are tough. Yeah. He really impressed me last summer when he would drive the FR car,

the F3 car, and then we jumped on an airplane and went to Eldora. And he did really well in the SRX. Yeah. So to be able to adapt that quickly, that just shows you he's got great feel and good. So you recently wrote this book, right, with Jade Gersh, who is a friend of ours. I know that had to have been a great experience just working with Jade.

Have you enjoyed not only the process of writing this book? How was that for you? It was sometimes it was difficult, sometimes it was easy. Yep. It was very therapeutic and then with Jade Jade made it so easy. Right. I mean he Had you known Jade well before? No, not really. I mean a little bit by him writing the beast and we did some interviews together but but really it was during COVID when COVID hit I hadn't written a book about myself you know in an autobiography basically. And so when when they came out with with the COVID thing and shut the whole country down, I decided to be an author. So I went online and I took

this author school. Really? Oh yeah. Oh, you were going to do the actual writing. You were going to be the author. That's right. I was going to be the author. I was going to self-publish the whole nine, okay. How long did it take for you to talk yourself out of that? About three months. Okay. About three months. It was actually to the point where I was making notes and I was doing what they were, what I was taught basically, you know, and so on and writing stuff down. And then I got to the 89 Indy 500 when I went out and I gave thumbs up to M.O. It was at that time that I got Riders Block, if that's what you want to call it. Yeah, that's a good name for it.

Yeah, yeah. So I said, I need help. And so I called up Jade and he goes, sure, I'll help you. So a checkered pass, Allen Shoe Jr., has told to Jade Gersh, I enjoyed my experience as well, working with Jade, and even to this day, I'm super proud of what we were able to put together because I think it's such a great account of everything we experienced in those books. But now that the book is out, now that people have this in their hands, you know, how does the feedback on this book make you feel? The feedback's been great. Yeah.

It truly has. It's been great. I can imagine that it's absolutely been positive, but what does that do to you? How does that make you feel personally? It makes me proud, you know. Really kind of the way I've been looking at it and so on is Jade did such a great job putting my words on pages. And for the reader to read, a lot of the comments that I have had is that when they're reading the book, my friends can see me saying it, living it, hearing my voice. Yeah, right. Jade's so good at really getting

to get, he's so good at doing that. He's always kind of had this sort of gift. So it's turned out well. You came, you know, pretty clean in this book. You were really honest about a lot of things that you went through. What made you get to this point to where you were willing to be so transparent and share all of these things about your life? Well, it was, I guess it was a process. You know, you can't, I couldn't, I couldn't feel right about writing about my life, my autobiography.

without including the private life of myself. And so, you know, not just a racing book. I didn't want it just a racing book. I wanted people to know me and who I was. And so I think we did that pretty well. Why was that important? You have to get down to the nitty gritty on why you wrote the book. I mean, you wanted, you'd never written an autobiography,

and you wanted people to know you, but tell me why that was even important to you. Well, I guess, you know, I guess my, my failures out in my private life, you know, was so public, so very public. I couldn't talk about my family and growing up in racing without including all the rest of the stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and it was a big risk. Yeah. Honestly, it was a big risk. I mean, I had my mom and my stepdad go, Al, you can't put that in there. Right. You know?

No one will hire you. No one will, it'll be bad. And I go, but it's the truth. And so how could I not? And so I did a lot of praying about it. I mean, there's a lot of areas in the book that, yeah, I'm going, wow, you know, that's pretty heavy stuff. But, you know, after praying about it, it's, it was, I had a good feeling about it.

And that's, I felt that's what God wanted me to do. too. Yeah, man, that's incredible. Let's step back. You grew up in a very famous, you know, family, and I have this amazing amount of respect just for the last name, Unser. I think there are some similarities to the same way people feel about the last name Earnhardt. That's right. I've always felt this connection to you personally, knowing what it must have been like for you to try to succeed and succeed and have success. As well as you. Yeah, as a junior. But let's go, you know, take me back to the minute or the day or the time in your life when you were starting to get interested in race cars.

I remember for me, for example, I was sitting on the couch at dad's house. Dad wasn't, you know, dad'd come on from work real late, sit down in his lazy boy and wouldn't speak to you. He would just stare at the TV and literally probably fall asleep in a few minutes. Right. And 9 o'clock at night. You weren't going to have this dad sometime. right but I'm sitting there on that couch at 13 years old going I got to become a race car

driver how do I do this and I had no way to communicate to him other than just to say I really want this bad what do I do right his answer was to go clean the floors at the shop right which you know what that probably makes a lot of sense to you but it is 13 year old I was like what that is not that's not what I'm talking you know I didn't know what that meant but so talk to me about being young being impressed by what you were seeing and And when did that interest in driving first start to crop up? They built a go-kart track about a mile away from my dad's house when I was nine years old. Where were you living?

When I was eight years old. With my dad and my mom and dad were still married at that time. What area? And so Albuquerque, New Mexico. Yep, yep. And so they built that go-car track, and we would drive by it, and I would go, I want to go drive go-karts. I want to do that. And so it wasn't, but probably less than a year later, that dad had this go-kart.

And so it showed up. It showed up. Magically appeared. We went out there and it was the wrong kind of go-kart. Okay. It was one of the lay-down carts. They call them Enduro carts. Okay.

And so I remember the first time I drove it, you know, wide, tried to go wide open through a corner. totally missed it went bouncing through the tires and stuff like that dad came running and then from that point on it was just uh learning how to drive the go card and and learning what a what a line is what what uh what an apex is and how big points did he stand out on the racetrack tell you like this no no no now uncle bobby would uh-huh uncle bobby he would with with robby he'd get a stick out there and and try to hit him to go faster. What? Of all the things I take away from the book, Uncle Bobby is fascinating because he seems like just a hard ass. Was he a hard ass? No. No, okay. No. Uncle Bobby had a heart,

you know, he had a heart and he was always good towards me, okay? And so his whole life, even when I drove his Pikes Peak car up Pikes Peak, he was great. He was great with me. I never got that that his son's got. Yeah, but when you, you know, there's a part of the book where it says, I think you asked him what, what was my dad's driving style? And he said, lazy. Well, yeah. And I'm like, wow, that's, you know, you're calling Alunser Senior lazy. That seems harsh, right? Well, Uncle Bobby had had his thoughts about my dad when he talked to me about it. He'd simply just say, the longer the race, the faster dad got. Yeah. So the 500 mile races, he would be better the longer the race. And so, you know, and then dad would back that up with me when I was growing up that you only want to lead one lap. And that's the last one. Right. Everything else is just, you know, getting to the last lap.

So Bobby has a heart, but now he's out here going back to the go carts and teaching you guys about Apex. He's got a stick and he's going to hit people with it. He was demanding. Got it, okay. He was demanding, you know. Another story about Uncle Bob. I mean, he, with Bobby Jr., Bobby Jr. was running Formula Ford's at this time. And so they were at a track test, and Uncle Bobby got this idea that he needed to time Bobby Jr. getting out of the car.

And so he wasn't doing it fast enough. So Uncle Bobby goes, let me show you how to do it. So he gets in and he doesn't. And he goes, the best drivers in the world do it like this. What am I talking about? I am the best driver in the world. So that's Uncle Bobby. I mean, that's, and he just, the confidence that he just had was immense.

Yeah. So while you're young and you're getting in this go-car and trying to learn this, are they your heroes at that point? They all are. Right. Yeah, AJ Foyt, Mario, Dad, Uncle Bobby. Yeah, that was not a difficult thing, but like to look up to your dad and your uncle and think, man, yeah, they might be.

be the best ever, right? How was that intimidating to you? Was that? No, because I never thought of them as the best ever. You know, I thought of them. Dad was dad and Uncle Bobby was Uncle Bobby and I had to be careful around Uncle Bobby because I didn't want, I, there was one time I went,

I went across street, they used to live across street from each other. So dad had his shop and across street, Uncle Bobby had his shop. So my cousin Bobby Jr. had started racing go cards. And so we were working on the go-carts. Dad with me and Uncle Bobby with Bobby Jr. And dad needed a part that he knew Uncle Bobby had. So he told me to go across street and get it.

And this is about, I don't know, six or seven at night. It was dark. And so I go across the street and the door's locked. And I'm knocking on the door, knocking on the door. And finally somebody, I forget who let me in, okay, But I could hear Uncle Bobby and Bobby Jr. in another section of the shop, and they're cussing at each other. And then you hear this banging going on. Well, I walk in, and they're both behind different toolboxes, and they're throwing the tools at each other.

And so that's when I went, oh, okay, I got to go. I'm not. And so that's the way it was with how I treated Uncle Bobby. Yeah. What was in y'all's shop? Your go-kart? What else? Go-cart, pace cars from the 500.

That was about it, you know. What was in Bobby's shop? Same thing? Yeah, same thing. So how was the go-carts? Successful? Wins? Absolutely.

Loved it. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. I was winning almost straight away. Did you win locally then take off and start traveling or what happened? No, we just stayed locally. You know, there was a couple times that we went down to Las Cruces, but primarily just stayed there locally, you know, because dad was racing during the summer. And so he would fly in when he could to be at the races, but he wasn't at the races very often.

So how did that work for you? Who was with you? A gentleman named Larry Bond. Who's that? He was a guy who worked for my dad. And so we would get the go cart ready. We'd go testing and so on. during the week and dad would fly out and then we would race it on the on the Sunday so when you had your

dad at the track what did that do to you like were you pumped did it did it give you more motivation did it it's scary it no way more motivation way more confidence because dad was there and and and he could help me you know we would have like three heats during during that race day Sunday and so the first heat even win or lose it really didn't matter dad would see the little things things that could help me be quicker. And so that's what he would do with me is he would, he just talked to me, you know, and so in a calm voice where, you know, Uncle Bobby with his voice, God damn it, son, you know, kind of thing. So. So after Go-carts, what was next? Sprint cars. Straight from go-carts to sprint cars and adapted to it real quick, you know,

and I love the sprint car. I was truly having fun driving the sprint car. And at the time, I took it so serious, you know. I didn't realize what serious was until I got to Indianapolis. And I realized how much fun I was actually having in the sprint car. Tell us the story about when Bobby Jr. wanted to show you how fast a sprint car goes. You had never driven one, right? No, I had never driven one.

Yep, yep. Tell us the story. I was 15 years old. I was definitely going to get into the sprint car the next year. Okay. And so we were out running, it was a Friday night, and he was running locally there in the sprint cars. And his shop was close enough that they drove the car to the track.

Okay? It was just down the street. It was about a mile away is where they had it stored. And so after the race, he said, out, come on, jump on. And I go, what do you mean? He goes, here, just grab on, just stand on the nerve bar, and just grab onto the roll cage, and I'll take you. And I went, okay. I had a cowboy hat on at the time. And so as soon as we pulled out, as soon as we got it started, okay, and pulled away, he said, give me your hat. So he took my hat, put it down in his lap, and as soon as we got

on the asphalt, he just pegged it. And I almost lost grip. I did lose grip of one hand and almost, almost fell off the thing. But was able to grab back on and scared the living, you know what, I bet. It was bad. Yeah, yeah. So where were you racing sprint cars at? Albuquerque.

Yeah. And to explain us. Albuquerque, and then we'd go up to Denver, and then we'd go over to Phoenix run Manzanita. What was your, what's a sprint car like back then? You're running on asphalt? No, it's all dirt. All dirt. All dirt.

And they look the same as they do today. Really? You know? So I don't remember, I mean, you know, I've watched your career, but a lot of people don't know that you ran and, you know, sprints on dirt. I didn't even really know that until we started. Oh, really? Yeah. No.

I know you is, you know, driving into cars coming to Daytona with Hendrick and everything, you know, everything about that part of your career. But I don't know anything about how you can. came up. You know, I would assume that you ran all open wheel asphalt formula cars and so forth, but so you really enjoyed racing sprint cars on dirt. You were really successful with that. How long did you do that? Did it for about three years. Yeah. For about three years and we went, we were real fast up at Erie, Colorado, which is just a little north of Denver and it was dirt. Today it's asphalt, even if the track exists. I don't even know if it's still there, but but when it was dirt

the number one thing with my father was the first year Speedway Park was the local track It was a quarter mile It didn't have walls in the corners So if you went in too deep You just go over the bank and drive back on So the rule was that first year of race and spring cars That I'm not to get on a track with a wall all the way around it

Okay So Erie didn't have a wall all the way around it so you could do the same there so we were quick there and then at the end of the season they had another local track there in Albuquerque and it was called Albuquerque Raceway and it had a wall all the way around it

and they're just having, I was having a great year my rookie year, everything's good so a World of Outlaw show came there and we were racing and I ended up hitting the wall so yeah How was that? It hurt.

Yeah. It was the first wall you've ever hit. It was no fun, yeah, yeah. I want to know why you went to Sprint cars and why you didn't stay in open-wheel cars or whatever was next. Like I imagine the go-car track was the road course. Was it not or wasn't an oval? Yeah, it was an asphalt road course. Right.

So you go from that to a dirt sprint car on ovals. And I know that, you know, you sack and all the things, Andretti's and Foyt and all them, they ran those cars. So it's not like this uncommon thing in your world. Right. But was that encouraged by your dad to get into those cars? Absolutely. Right. Absolutely.

It was all dad, you know. He was like, this is the next thing. This is the next thing. That's right. And what were you thinking? Like, you were like, it sounds awesome. Great. This was familiar to you.

This was local. Yeah. Yeah. You knew these cars. Well, yeah. I mean, Bobby Jr. had been running them. And yeah, I mean, it was just the, the. natural progression i guess because it's out in albuquerque in phoenix out west there um we didn't have

um cca clubs got you we didn't have the the the road racing out there what we had were dirt ovals and so interesting it was just naturally the the natural thing to do is just to go get in a dirt car and smart car so you're good you're that's going well for you for three years and what do you Lincoln's next thing. Whatever dad said. And the next thing was a Super Vee at Michigan was the first time that I drove a rear engine car. And that thing's got, I'm going to guess, way less power than this sprint car, right? Oh, yeah.

Way less power, but way faster. Really? Yeah, way faster, but less power. And so, you know, we went to Michigan in that super V, and it was. You just hold it wide open all the way. You went around the oval? Oh, yeah. What?

It was the oval. Oh, my God. I figured it was like a road, you ran a road course in the infield. It was my first experience in pack racing. Right. And we've got single seat open wheel cars and you got the, they took the rear wings of those things and tucked them underneath the rear tires. Yeah. So that they're not in the air at all.

That's right. That's right. Yeah. And so we were in around there. And I finished fourth, right with the lead pack. Yeah. I finished. fourth in that race.

Without, I mean, how did you even prepare for something like that? You're, you know, you run your, you know, you have go-kart experience on this road course near near the house. You run some dirt sprint cars and now the next thing you're running a two-mile Michigan in the Super League. It was my third year. Yeah, it was my third in sprint card third year. Yeah.

And so it was near the end of the season. It was near the end of the summer. And then our next race when we did, when we did well at Michigan, our next race was at Phoenix on the Oval. and I was out there practicing, you know, because they allowed us to practice during the week of that weekend. So I think it was like a Wednesday or Thursday, and we're racing that weekend. I keep working at it and working at it that I'm going to run turns one and two flat. I've got turns three and four flat, and I'm building up to it, building up to it.

I just can't quite do it. And so finally, I did it, and the right front blue, right in the middle of it. And it just went straight for the wall. I didn't have my foot on the brake. I wasn't left foot breaking at that time, which I should have been, but I wasn't. And so I tried to get my foot on the brake, my right foot, so fast that it got stuck behind the brake pedal. And so it was still about half throttle when I went up and hit the fence.

Phoenix is a guardrail on the outside of it at this time. Right. And so once I opened my eyes, the guard. rail is right here, right here. And the car's like half throttle and it's so it's grinding away on the fence. And so I finally got my foot out of there. And my first thought was, wow, I'm lucky to have my right arm. Yeah. How hurt were you though? Not bad at all. Really? No, no, not bad at all. We got the team I was with. It was Jose Le Garza's team. He had a spare car for him. Okay. And so Jose Le gave me his spare car and we went out and qualified the next day, put it on the pole,

and race day led every lap, won the race. My gosh. The only time I ever won at Phoenix was right there. Really? Yeah. So do you run the Super V the next year full time? Yeah, I run the Super V the next year full time. I actually had signed a contract with Gary Stanton to drive his sprint car for the summer.

Okay. And it was Ronnie Schumann had been driving that car and been winning everything that year. And so then Gary, Gary did a switch and hired me. And we went out. Our first race was at El Centro, California. Yeah. And we won it going away. And that was cool because the left rear went flat in Victor Lane.

Wow. So that was cool. We were using it up. We were using it up. About how old. already at this point? I'm 19. All right. Yeah, yeah, 19 years old. And so, um, at that time, Rick Gallis was racing cars in out of my Uncle Bobby shop. Across the street. Across the street. And so they had a

falling out because what kind of cars? Uncle Bobby's Uncle Bobby. Okay. What kind of cars are they? They're running Formula Ford's. Okay. And Sports 2000. So they're SECA road racing kind of thing. And so Rick decided he wanted to do his own team, form his own team. And so, you know, I was doing fairly well. And so he contacted me, asked me if I would like to drive his cars. The guy that had a falling out with your uncle. Yes. Rick Dallas. Yeah. So did your, did your uncle go, did he have any opinions about you driving for this guy? I don't think so. I don't think he had any opinions. We didn't ask him if he did. Okay, we just went and did it.

And so right at that time, this is the springtime now, this March, April of 1980. Okay. And I'm now not having fun driving the sprint car. Wow. The sprint car is we can't do anything. Gary Stanton and I, we can't hit our ass with both hands. I mean, it was just caving. and this opportunity with Rick Alice in the Super V came up,

and so I jumped at that and asked Gary if he'd released me out of my contract. He said, hell yeah, you know. Oh, he knew it was over too, huh? Oh, yeah. He was, yeah, because I didn't have that much experience in the sprint card. Now, I had experience, but I didn't really know how to set it up, and I didn't know what I was feeling. What was missing from the, you were successful,

now you're not what was missing um the setup of the car who was doing it that was making it so good at first at first it was the first couple of years was with walter judge he's 63 years old man and i'm 16 years old but he knew how to set it up he knew how to set it up and so i was what we call a balanced driver okay saying it's too loose i need more rear grip here and here and here and so make it happen kind of thing. And so he would. And so I tried to learn as much as I could during that time, but I didn't learn enough to actually call the shots,

to call that I need a stiffer left rear bar in the car and stuff like that. And so when I went with Gary, Gary didn't, he knew setups, but he needed the driver to say, I need a stiffer right front bar or left front bar, I need the shocks adjusted this way. And so Gary was good at that, okay. But with me, it was just not working, and we were going to some different tracks, and we were really getting blown off.

And this is my first real time in the world of outlaws. Oh, wow. And they're strong, no matter what. Right. You know, I think the best I ever did in a World of Outlaw show was like eighth and a B main. My gosh. Okay.

Every time we'd go. And we would go that last summer driving the spurn car, we traveled through the Midwest, okay, and Walter and I. And we'd hit some local shows, and we'd win on some local shows. And we'd go, okay, you know, we're feeling good. Let's go hit an outlaw show. And I'd go and I'd hit an outlaw show, and they'd clean my clock, and we'd go back to the locals. Yeah. Races, so.

So you get out of that deal and into this other program. Super V. Yep, yep. And you're just driving it only. Yeah, just driving it. Rick hired me full-time, paid me a salary. You mentioned Michigan and Phoenix. What are the racetracks that you're racing on? Well, we started in that 1980 season, we started at Charlotte on the road course. And the rising stars at that time were me and John Paul Jr. I think John Paul and I sat on the front row together, and then I went and won the race, and, you know, we ran the SCCA Super V season, that season. How did you learn, imagine with the Super V there wasn't a ton of shifting, but there was probably some shifting around the road course.

How did you learn how to do that? Because you ran some go-carts on the road course, but how did you learn how to, How did you learn how to drive road courses? I guess just going out there and doing it. Right. You know, Uncle Bobby told me I needed to learn how to left foot break and learn how to shift without the clutch. How did you do?

So there was no healing toe for you? No. Never learned how to do that? I assumed. I knew how to do it. You sure? But I didn't. I didn't.

I just assumed that any, if you rode, this is those, So all the way back in, I mean, even 2000, 2001, I thought that if you were not a NASCAR guy and ran road courses, you absolutely knew how to heal and toe. I just assumed that all of you knew how to do it. So to hear like one of the greats was a heel and toe guy. So what a heel and toe might. Yeah, explain that. So heal and toe and maybe, you know, you can clean, you can clean this up. You're going to enjoy this. So when you, so when you start to, to approach a corner. You left foot break a little bit,

but you also at some point switch the left foot to the clutch and bring your heel of your gas foot, your right foot, over to the brake, and now you switch, right? You switch left. You know, you take your left foot off the brake. Now your right foot is breaking. You got your toes over here on your right foot, popping the gas pedal, matching the revs,

and the clutch with your left foot, right? Gotcha. For the down chest. Yeah. Entering a corner and a break. Downshifts. Cars have synchronizers. Other cars have what we call dog rings, which in NASCAR, it's a crash box. Okay. And so you don't need a clutch on down shifts. And so with those. But you do with the synchronizers. I'll go years later, Daytona 24-hour, the Porsche that I drove with Al Holbert, the low-in-brow Porsche that we won with. It had synchronizers. You had to heal. And I hated it.

Because you had to heal and toe. You had to heal and toe. So I don't think I would have absolutely had to find something else to do with my life. If heel and toe was a necessary thing. Actually, what you do, what you do actually is you use your right foot on the brake and then you roll it over to blip the throttle while you're pushing the clutch in and downshifting. Right. Wow.

That's the real heel and toe. It's like patting your head and rubbing your belly kind of thing. It's impossible. That takes multitasking to another level, right? Yeah. Yeah, so then Uncle Bobby told me I had to learn how to shift it without the clutch. And so then I started doing that. Was it just as simple as just getting the revs up and?

Figuring it out. Yeah, yeah, because sometimes I would overreve it. And then once you round the set of dogs, once you round those off, then it won't shift anymore. Right. You know. Yeah, yeah. I've ran several road courses where I've had to hold it in gear by the end of the race

because it's literally just will come right at full throttle, just won't stay in gear anymore. Me too, me too, with the Indy car, those first few years. Really? Yeah, you had to hold it in. So, you know, you were your first Super Bowl race at Michigan running really good. Go to Phoenix, you win. So that's, I'm imagining the rest of your success. there was good go to Charlotte oh yeah oh yeah that's working out i think that's what rick why he hired

me was because he saw how well i did just straight away and so how was the rest yeah so how was that year that first year won the scea championship as a rookie first time that they had ever had that done and and so there was nine races i won four of them and uh yeah won the championship now things good how much racing is your dad seeing very little very little. What's he hearing? I don't know what he's hearing, but we're winning. Yeah. Is he, is he, you and him having conversations about your success? No, it was more about, you know, car setups, you know, what do, what do I do in this situation? If, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, be trying to, you, you know, you, you know, and, you, and, and, uh, and, just talk to, talking to, talking to him about that, about how do I, about how do I, How do I get the car working better for me?

Yeah. And he was at a few of the races, so you got to know that the Super V race is not all of them, but there was probably three or four of them of the nine that were with the Indy cars. And so Dad would be there. And he'd be watching me. And after practice, he'd go, you know, you need to, what I see is you need to, try to do this a little bit different and so on. So your dad

was not this, I'm assuming that your dad was really good with just being able to bounce things off of, he wasn't hard on you as far as... Correct. Correct. Not like Uncle Bobby. You stayed away from Uncle Bobby. And so, Dad,

dad you can go talk to. Now, the thing about my dad, especially once we got into Indy cars, was before I was racing against him, he would offer the advice. He would offer it. You know, you need to do this and this and this to be faster here and here and so on. Once I got into Indy cars, that stopped. Oh, totally. And so I had to ask the question to get the answer. Now, it would be the truth. He never saw me as competition or he did,

okay, but he never treated me as competition. So. Back up, though. for a second because I think that as we have been talking about how you've ascended through the racing ranks, I mean, again, to go back to a checker past and you go into a great detail about the relationship with you and your dad. And it wasn't always roses, right? I mean, you went through a divorce. And by the way, one of the things that I always see similarities, like in both y'all's stories, you went through a divorce or he went through a divorce that you and your sisters had to process at a very young age. That has to have some sort of recourse for you. You're moving with your mom, and then you're moving back with your dad.

You're raising a lot of hell on the way, I might add, in high school, skipping a lot of classes. I'm not saying that that's exactly the similarity, but I'm saying is that, I mean, just with all of that in mind, how would you characterize the evolution of the relationship with your dad along the way now? Because we're now, you're making it, you've got a career arc now that looks like you're going to be a professional race car driver. But you guys have had an interesting relationship with the moving back and forth along the way. I guess yeah I guess you know backing up a little bit sure okay when I'm in high school I'm I'm living with my dad now now in eighth and ninth grade I lived with my mom prior to that I lived I lived with my dad in seventh grade for the go-kart championship

so my mom's living in Atlanta how old are you when they got divorced I was nine all right and nine. How did that affect you personally? It hurt, you know. There was a lot of pain there, emotional pain. I didn't know how to deal with, you know. My sisters were not happy with anything of it, you know, and so they were struggling. Everyone's struggling. Everyone's struggling. All those kids, but me, I'm not really struggling all that much because with my mom, I could get away with murder. I could get away with whatever I wanted to. You know, my main job, my only job, was to take out the trash with my scissors.

They made my bed. I didn't have to make my bed in the morning. My goodness. I mean, it was. It's a good deal. Yeah, it was a great deal, you know. And so then I would go and I'd race the go-karts during the summer with my dad, and my dad told me that very first summer.

or if he asked me he goes do you want to win the championship and I said yeah he goes well then you got to come live with me I do really he goes yeah I go okay so not knowing my dad's a lot stricter than my mom okay and so living with my dad that year that I won the go-kart championship it was it wasn't as much fun as it was hanging out with mom and being with my mom And so the first chance I got to live with my mom, I moved and lived with my mom. She lived where now? She lived. When they first got divorced, she moved to Atlanta, Georgia.

And so that's where I spent my fifth and sixth grade was in Atlanta. On the other side of the country. Country, right, right, which rained all the time. I wasn't used to the rain. Yeah. You know, I was out west. It didn't rain as much. And so I moved back with my dad.

and then my mom ends up moving back to Albuquerque. Oh. And when she moved back to Albuquerque, that's when I went to live with her. Full time. Yeah, now I can race in. I can do what I wanted to do after school and stuff like that. I didn't. And the race and stop.

The go-car race and stop. I was going to say, so you still couldn't live with your mom and race at the same time? No, my dad. Because your dad? My dad put a stop to it, but he did it. The way he did it was he's not going to support it financially anymore. So, and he's not going to work on the go-kart. So if I want a race, then I'd have to come and work on the go-kart,

get a job to financially do it. And so that only lasted a few months during the summer until all the parts were used up, okay, and I needed to buy more parts, and he said no. And so the race and stop, the go-kart race and stop. So he allowed you to come over there and work on it and then... And he taught me. He taught me how to work on it.

He would be there. He taught me how to build. the engines, you know, they were... But when the, what did, you know, so was he, is he visually frustrated with you? No. Not that I could, not that I could tell. I mean, I think he was frustrated with the situation. But, you know, I was putting the effort towards it.

And so that's all he, I think he cared about was the effort. If, as long as you're trying, your best, and he ended up telling me this later on, And as long as you're trying the best, the best will come back to you. So, you know, that's all he asked that I would do. And so that's what we did. And so, you know, like I said, the parts ran out, and it was time to put money into it, and I couldn't afford it. And so the racing stopped. And so then I had a good friend of my dad's.

His name was Don Morgan. they were partners in their auto parts business. My dad had a foreign auto parts business. And so Don Morgan was his partner in that business. In 68, my dad and my Uncle Bobby, they closed down their foreign auto parts shops. That's what the shops were, but they were closed, okay, when we're talking about the mid-70s now.

And so I started working at Don Morpard's, Morgan says a as a machinist. He had a machine shop. So doing valves. It was mostly Volkswagen stuff. Yeah. Air-cooled Volkswagen stuff and milling heads and grinding cranks. And so I learned how to do that after school. And it was he was the one that said, look, if you want to race, do you want to race? And I said, yeah. He goes, you need to live with your dad. If you don't move back to your dad's house, you are not going to race. Yeah. And then he told me they'd be paying me a million dollars a year to race. And I go, you're crazy. You know, you're crazy. And he goes, I'm serious. You know, that's what's out there for you. That's what's out there. That's what I see. And so I moved back

with my dad for 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. Yeah. Which were all the sprint car years. And he, and you dealt with the rules. I dealt with the rules. Yeah. Because a million dollars is a million dollars. Well, racing was racing. I wasn't making no million dollars. No, but you had that dangled in front of you. Yeah, but it wasn't the dream. It was racing.

Yeah. I just loved racing. Racing was the medicine. And also, is it fair to say, also, whatever wounds it were caused from, you know, the fractured relationship between your dad and your mom, but racing was a, you know. It was an escape.

An escape, a distraction, escape, whatever you would call it. I've learned now later on in years, when I really did have some. some really big issues going on. By getting in the race car and driving the race car, the whole world disappears. And it's the most time that I'm relaxed. It's the most time that I'm happy and free actually driving. Yeah, Jacques Villeneuve said, of his, you know, people were asking him why he wanted to try

to come run a Daytona 500 this year. And he said he's, the only time he's alive is when he's behind the wheel of a race car. And I mean, it's Jacques Villeneuve. But when he said that, I was like, I know exactly what he's talking. You know what, yeah. Yeah. Like that is a great way of putting it. You talk about when you live with your mom, you mentioned it just now.

You said, I could go and do whatever I wanted to do after school. And when you're with your dad, he had certain expectations, right? What are the things that you like to do? What was it that was fun for you to do when you were getting out of school and what were you doing with your time? Be honest. I was getting in trouble. I know. I was getting in trouble.

I was robbing cigarette machines and stuff like that. How do you rob a cigarette machine? Reach up underneath there and grab them. You were just, okay. So, and then with my sisters, we were all being mischief. Really? Okay, because there was no parental guidance between 2.30 and 6 p.m. none. And so every day we could just do whatever we wanted to do.

because dad didn't have an eight to five job like my mom did when you got out of school chances are dad was home and he had plans for you yeah when you when you got home you were either cutting weeds or you were doing something with him and it was work related so that sounds so as a you know how are you at that point i am 13 13 so right so in that area. Go goof off, mischief, stealing cigarettes, all the other things. That sounds like that's a whole lot more fun than cutting weeds and living with a strict parent.

Correct. How in the hell did you make the switch? Make the switch? I wanted to race, and there was no way that I was going to race. My cousin Robbie, he was at this age, this 14, 15, 16-year-old. okay he couldn't handle his dad anymore and he goes I can't be around him I can't do anything all he does is yell at me da da da da I go Robbie you only have just a couple more years left okay you you only have a couple more hang it out stick it out and then you're going to be 18 years old

and you're going to be able to do what you want to do with your life and you'll be a race car driver please you know try try no i can't do it turns out robbie is the spitting image of uncle bobby and so they're both just so stubborn they're just both just out of the same mold so what happened um what did he do robbie left and uh his racing stopped for for several years and then he got back with his dad and and uh they built a stock car together that they ran locally on the dirt. And even that was, was according to Robbie,

even that was a shit show, you know. Because Uncle Bobby made him wear radios. So he could yell at him while he's in the car. Oh, damn. Yeah. The one time he could get away from his dad, he couldn't get away from his dad. Right, right.

Which ended up making it a real bad issue, real bad thing. So, you know. Again, I was just so lucky to be born where I was born, you know, with my dad. Because my dad was, he was calm and he was smart and he was calculative. What did he think about your mischief? He didn't like it, for sure, didn't like it. But honestly, I don't think he knew what to do with it. I don't think he knew what to do about it, you know.

So it was a hard thing for him. Yeah. Tell the story about the 1978 and he five. Which your dad won, right? Yeah, dad won it. And you had just decided you were going to skip school for like two weeks. Yeah, my first year racing sprint cars. Okay.

Okay. That was my first year racing sprint cars. And we had started running in April. I had run three races, and I had just finished. In my third main event, I finished fourth, which they would, for the next week's race, they would take the top four in Verdom for the trophy dash. Okay? And so I was really super excited about, you know, I'm going to be on the front row of the trophy dash and anyway.

So dad left for the month of May. And so I stayed with Don Morgan, who I mentioned earlier, stayed with him at his house. So I've got my driver's license. So I drive to school. And so once I would leave Don Morgan's house, I wouldn't go to school. I would go to my dad's house and go back to bed. And so I ditched school for a whole week. And then the next week I started doing the same thing.

And one of my Woods class teacher, he called, Don Morgan found out by him calling him and going, where's Al? You know, he hasn't been here for a week. And they went, what? And so he came over to my dad's house where my car's parked out front, knocking on the door and stuff. I wouldn't answer it. And so then he ended up leaving and I went, oh man, now we're in trouble now. So we were. But when your dad came back, he had just won the Indy 500, right?

And this is. Well, okay, so I got, I got grounded bad. Okay, so once he found out, I was in deep trouble. So he took the sprint car away from me. And when he took the sprint car away from me, being grounded is one thing. But not racing. But not racing. And that's a whole different, that's a whole different ball game.

And so once he took the racing away from me, that was, I was in deep trouble. And so, yeah, I mean, he chewed me out pretty bad. You say, though, if you go back, you say he didn't really know how to handle your mischief. But he did know enough to take racing away seemed to be the thing to get you back in line. If dad was in town that day, he would have cut my head off. I mean, there would have been bodily physical injuries going on had dad been in town, but he wasn't. And he wasn't having a very good month of May in 78.

No, no, all during practice and stuff. He was quick, but he wasn't as quick as he wanted to be. He wasn't, you know, and so we were just, I was just super lucky that he won that 500. I mean, because when he did come home, I'm still in school, and when he did come home, he came to the school as soon as he got landed in Albuquerque. He came to the school and got me out of class, and he goes, and I come running up to him and grab him and hug him, you know, dad, you know, please don't kill me. And he, you know, just kind of pull me away. And he goes, you're just so lucky I won that race. If I wouldn't have won that race, I'd be tearing you apart right now.

And as a matter of fact, I might do that once we get home. I know that feeling, man. You do something. Dad's going through the race and you get your stuff in trouble. And you're like, I got hell to pay. Not only I'm in trouble right now, but then it's coming again. Once Dad gets home, there's more, you know. It's like it's all over it.

It's like you just, you know, get punished multiple times. There's waves of punishment. Well, but like, you know what? Now we can sort of pick back up in your racing career, because honestly, that was what I was, I found your relationship with your dad so interesting as you were going through your teenage years and how I suspected, like you said, I suspected that racing was that, you know, elixor that just, you know, kind of kept things together. And it seems to be you're just, or you're validating that.

And so now you are showing talent, you're winning, you're racing at these huge tracks. And when your dad, going back to what Dale asked, when your dad was there, he was helping you, not being. Correct. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. And then so high school, I'm 18 years old, high school, I'm graduating. I'm starting my third year, really, of racing.

And I meet a girl in Phoenix, Arizona. named Shelly and we were inseparable for how'd you meet her forever she went to a sprint car race after run into her there a car race happened to run into her there yeah let me ask you a question so your your last name's answer you're in her you know you're around a racing environment all the girls that are your age uh it probably impressed by the last name um what was it about her that was that was she paid attention to me she was the first one it really Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, she took a liking to me. And, you know, in school, now, when I'm 18 years old, I probably weigh 85 pounds. I'm a little guy. I'm a little redhead with freckles. Nobody in high school wanted to hang with me. Okay, so I went and just did the very least as possible to get through high school. Yeah.

Because as a sophomore, I'm driving race cars. And I'm making money. It's not, you know, super good money, but it's money. Yeah. And so, you know, the education was a distraction to me, you know, because I'm now second year, sprint car racing. It's a Friday, and I'm racing Friday night, and I'm sitting in a world history class learning about Napoleon,

and I'm trying to figure out how is known about Napoleon. going to help me win that race tonight. That's what my brain's thinking. And the answer's no way. Right. Okay. So I did, I got like D's and D minuses. Barely.

Just enough to pass. You know, which was a big mistake for me. He's like, I know that. I wished I would have done better in school because, you know, it would have helped me in the business side. Sure. Of racing. I was the same way. You know, average kid.

Very short, freckles, not attractive, not getting any interest from any of the girls in the classroom and did the bare minimum as far as physically being there. And I was racing on the weekends, which I thought was amazing, but no one in my class give a damn about it. Right. You know, they're like, they're all talking about the dance, school dance that weekend. And I'm like, well, I ain't going to be there. The hell if I'm going to that, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

But, uh, true, it's, uh, it's interesting. Fast track us from the Super Vs to your Ricky Year and Indy. What happens in between that? Uh, the Can-Am season. What's the Can-Am? So Can-Am cars is Canadian American Series. You would know it is as Mark Donahue, Sunoco, Porsche. Yeah.

So that's a Can-Am car. Fenders, but not stock car looking at. No, it's sports cars. Sports cars, real, real ones. What did you go do that for? Like why? It was, it was dad's suggestion, okay? So he had you bouncing around from this to that to the next thing.

There was no like. Kind of. Yeah. Kind of. Like you see these kids today when their, when their goal is indie, everything they drive resembles, you know, something like an indie card. You know, whether it's Skip Barber and. They should be driving all kinds of cars.

You were in everything. No matter what. They should be driving whatever they can get their hands on. They should be driving. and the more that they're different, the better that is. And so we do the Super V year in 1981 was the Super V year. And so we win the championship. We're doing good.

Rick Gallis wants to go to Indy. And I'm 19 years old, okay? And so I'm of age for cart, which is the championship auto racing teams, but I'm not old enough to race indie. Right. So you had to be 21 to race indie. You had to be 18 to run in cart. Okay, so I was old enough to do that,

but dad was going, it's too big of a jump from the Super V to the Indy car. And also, Rick Gallis' race team, it's too big of a jump to go from Super Vs to Indy cars. Yeah. So I'd like you guys to do another year, of something that's in between. And just so happens, the Can Am is the perfect formula for everyone involved,

for Rick's team to get better as a team, mechanics and engineers and crew chiefs and all that kind of stuff. For me, it's a horsepower speed in between the Super V and the Indy car. So, and then you've got pit stops, okay, super Vs never had pit stops. The Can Am car does have pit stops. And so there's that element. So, yeah, I mean, it was a perfect deal. So how's everything in your personal life at this point?

I know, you know, we haven't really talked about all of that yet, but are you, is anything that you're doing beyond recreational? Are you seeing any signs knowing now what you know today when you look back at that time? Do you see a progression of a problem even back then? No, no, I didn't. I didn't see any kind of problem back then. I didn't drink at all. It was marijuana.

It was recreational. I'm getting married. I married Shelley. She's pregnant. We're having a baby boy. Okay. And that comes in October of 82. which is the end of the season with the, with the Can Am car, making good money.

I remember that summer, the Can Am, the prize money, my portion of it was a little over $10,000. And so I had a $10,000 check, which I thought was just the bomb, you know. You already had it spent probably. Yeah, absolutely. And so, no, married, living in Phoenix, Arizona. My dad wasn't very used to that at all. I remember him calling up every morning at like 7 a.m. trying to get me out of bed.

And finally, Shelly had to answer and go, look, Al, he's sleeping. He's not going to get out of bed. That must have been nice. That's somebody telling that. Yeah, it was. Actually, it was. He turned high school. And so he realized at that point that he's got to let me go.

Yeah. He's got to let me go. Yeah. And so he did, you know, to a point, you know, kind of. So in 83, you're going to run Indy. So how does that come about? Rick Gallis. Rick Gallis, once go to Indy.

You're ready. We won the Can Am championship. Him as a team, Dad's giving us his blessing. We're going to go. You know, I wanted Rick to not buy a March or a Lola. I wanted him to buy something that we could develop and have it be our own car. Why? And because I wanted that mechanical advantage, you know, I wanted to have something that no one else did than no one else had.

And so that way, if it is a mechanically better car than anybody else is out there, it's going to make my job a lot easier. Yeah, sure. Okay. and so he decided on the eagle, the Gurney Eagle, which were the only ones in 83 to have that car. And it was a good car. Where did the car come from? Dan Gurney, California. Brand new.

Brand new. Oh. Yep. It was late, as a matter of fact. And so I was in the 82 Eagle during the first couple of races of Indy, and then my rookie orientation in March. March of that year 83. I'm at rookie orientation. I get through. There's five stages. I got through four of them. I couldn't get through the fifth one. Why? Because the car wasn't fast enough. It was about to bust my butt. And so was you had to make a certain lap time? Yeah. Yeah. I had to run. I had to run like 10 laps from 188 to 92, 192, something like that. And I couldn't get above 85. Yeah. Without.

It was just handful. And thank God, Dad was there, you know, and he's saying because he said, look, it's not you. It's the car. The car has to be right in order for you to go fast. And if it ain't there, it ain't there. Don't try to make it happen when it's not there. And so I failed. I failed Rookie orientation.

So we get back there for the month of May, which is the first race with the 83 car. and he was exactly right. I could run, you know, 200 just easily. Wow. Just easily. Big difference. And so how do you get through? What's the process for somebody who's failed rookie orientation to get clear?

All they had to do was that final stage when we got back for practice. I just had to go out and run the 10 laps at that final stage. And so we breezed right through it. And then ended up qualifying fifth. for my first 500 and it was yeah i had the car i had the car if i would have known what i was doing we had the fastest car there so let me ask you this when i went to um i've seen the indy 500 on tv many times it's you know just i'm well versed in watching it on television but when i went there and stood on the front straightaway in person it's a whole it's it was the same for me too when i

first got there. Okay, so my very first Indy 500 is 1973. I'm 11 years old. We don't go to the pits. We don't go to anything like that. You know, we're kids and we're moving around. So the very next time that I was at the Indy 500 was the 82 500. A year before. The year before. And I walked out there and I went, wow, this is narrow. This track. I thought it was a heck of a lot wider than what it actually is. It's narrow. And then the car's just going by. Wow. That is part of it. Yeah, the front straightaway is really, really narrow. And even our stock

cars going by where if you hadn't been in one, it was pretty, you know, treacherous looking. I wouldn't say it was terrifying. When the stock cars came there in 94, I did not want to drive one. Really? Yeah. If I would have been offered, huh? Why? They went so much slower. Because they didn't have any grip. No, they didn't. They weren't any fun to drive around there.

That's right. I want the grip. I want the grip. And so, yeah, no, if someone would have offered me, I would have told no. Yeah. But I can't, you know, I've watched IndyCar's race there and the speed is just, you can't, you have to see it to understand it. Right. Television just doesn't.

The camera slows them down. And so, but also the other thing, too, when you're sitting on the grid, the people, the tradition, all the things, the pre-race. is unlike anything you'll ever experience. Nothing ever matches it. True. They have this special thing that's beyond anything that you'll experience in motorsports across the globe. In 83, your first race, like, was that possibly a nice distraction

from the pressure or nerves of the race itself, all the pre-race, the attention, the people, the anticipation? Or was that, were you like, whoa, this is heavy? Was it overwhelming? Was it like? It was never overwhelming. Yeah. Okay.

That first year, every day was a new day. So I didn't know what to expect the next day. It was a big learning curve. First weekend of qualifying got rained out. So we had to go to the second weekend to qualify. So, you know, it was practice. And I didn't know any different. That was just the way it all came to fruition.

But I had my dad. and I had my dad in my ear going, this is what to expect during, during when you, basically, when you walk out there race day morning, the whole place is going to be a different place. Yeah.

Keep your head down. Damn. You got a race to race. And just, that's it. Just, just do that. It's a race.

That's so, treat it that way. Yeah. That's a great, that's such a great comment from him. And that's exactly what I'm trying to explain or express. is it's similar to Daytona 500 in the way that the track changes. You're there for a whole week, racing, practicing, running the duels, qualifying.

But when you get there, when you get up and walk out there Sunday, it's a whole new playground. And the fans, the whole place transitions into this pressure cooker. And, man, is it heavy? But like I say, the ND 500 is on a whole other level. I don't think so. I've been in the- I've been in the Daytona 500. I mean, it was, it was okay.

It's twice the people. But it's, it's a race and it's an important race. Yes. And so, yeah, the 500 has all its traditions. I think because, like, I think it's because of how it's all compressed. Yeah. You've got the grandstands and gasoline alley and all that in the front straightaway, and it's all wedged down in this valley.

All of the things, the pre-race, the fans, the families, the kids, the kids, the sponsors, the cars. Hell, when I was there at the Daytona, or they're indie for my first, you couldn't see the damn cars. Right. You know, they were slammed to the ground. They look like fighter jets going across the ground,

and you couldn't see them on the lineup, on the grid. It's so different as far as just the enormity of it. And I imagine even 83, it was incredible. It's incredible. It's childhood dreams come true for me. you know um but it is a race yeah and so you know i i went out there and and my dad was right it totally changed okay so keep your head down you know um i get in the car i pull away and we you know we have the disconnect steering wheel okay as soon as i pulled away the thing went like this whoa

right yeah so what did i do i push the radio on the button whoever put this to I did not stop. I did not stop and put it on straight and reset it and take off, because I was scared to death that I can't stop. You might stall or what? I can't, yeah, I can't stop. Right, so what'd you do?

I drove it like that for the rest, for the race. Holy sht really, with the wheel cocked. Yeah, and just reset my hands. I just reset my hands. Okay, so it was a round wheel. Yeah, right? Just a steering wheel, there's no dad. on it like today's steering wheels.

That would be. So were your arms kind of cocked right to go straight? No. The steering wheel was. The steering wheel was. He just had to stop focusing on the spokes and just forget, just say, totally reset his mind about it. I got you. I got you.

Exactly. Yeah. You just had to reset your. When what I should have done was stop, reset it and go take back off and go back and get in my starting spot. So what happens when the race starts? it was okay i'm i'm trying to remember you know the start went well we were we were competitive as the race went on i ended up getting getting the right rear flat and that scared me to death because i went into turn three and the thing jumped sideways on me and i didn't know why it was it was

you know we didn't have air pressure sensors back then okay so i didn't know what happened to the car but and so we were running probably six fifth through tenth something like that you know at the beginning and staying on the lead lap until that happened yeah and then once that happened then it took me several laps to get back to get the confidence back in the car again and it took me several laps and during that time the guy the veterans are just going chum chum chum you know are putting me laps down at that point. Yeah. And so, so then at the end of the race, I find myself with my dad leading, Tom Sneeva second.

I'm third in line, like five laps down in 10th place or something. And there's what, there's 12 or 15 laps in the race. I decide to get between Tom and my dad. Great idea. And try to help dad go because he's been fast all day. Okay, so these two guys have been fast all day. And so if I could get between them and just cause Tom Sneva, just a couple laps worth of grief, you know, for me,

then hopefully dad would be able to get away. We take off, and I jumped the start so bad, I jumped dad too. So I ended up passing both of them before we went into turrets. turn four come off and turn four nothing but yellow lights right they switch to green okay and we go racing and so i let dad buy on the backstretch and then just started uh running interference was the best way to put it and dad did not take off all of a sudden dad doesn't have the speed he's slow and so i'm going why would that be god he got a bad set of tires or something he You know.

Just the car wouldn't turn. The lose? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was fast all day, but now he's not. So instead of, you know, drafting it, because I couldn't draft up and pass him because I'm not, I'm trying to get him to go, you know.

And so what I would do in order to run wide open down the straightaways, I'd just get out from behind him. Cause a little drag on your car. And cause a little drag on my car. And the way that it looks on the video is that I'm blocking. because dad's not going anywhere. I'm out like this, and you got Tom back there doing that on these numbers. And so, yeah.

So what ended up happen? How did it finish? Tom ended up, we ended up catching some lap traffic. Tom ended up passing me, and then wasted no time with dad past him. Did he come up to you after the race? No. Or afterwards at any other time and say, hey.

No, because he won. Yeah. Had he not won, there have been probably a whole different thing but no him him went in the race it was like forgotten now so what happened to me after the race I was penalized for jumping the restart

okay I was penalized a lap for jumping the restart oh and but it didn't change my finishing order I still finished 10th okay and but the mail the hate mail that came in from Sneva fans Sneva fans Indy car fans. They wanted my license.

I mean, they wanted, how dare this guy, you know, come to Indy for the first time and have the wherewithal or the bravery or their stupidity to try to affect the end of the race like that when I'm lapsed down? Yeah. Okay. Did they have a point? Yeah.

Yeah, they had a point. But hey, he's my dad. I'm going to try to help him if I can. And so I didn't do anything wrong. You know, I almost, it almost worked because I was trying to put Tom's car right behind mine in the corners and then break the draft from him down the straightaways. And so almost in turn four, he almost lost the front end enough where he came this close to hitting the fence off of turn four one time. And I went, oh, that man, we missed that opportunity. In the book, you talk about Gordon Smiley and his...

82. Yeah, so having that on your mind and being confident behind the wheel and racing. I mean, how... So at Indy, that time in Indy was kind of a wild, wild west, you know, with the way... Yeah, the cars were aluminum honeycomb. Right. And they kept moving the drivers further forward. Yeah.

Further forward and yeah, those were the days that you did not crash. That was the number one thing. Forget about speed or anything like that. Do not crash. And so how did that weigh on your mind behind the wheel? Don't crash. Yeah. You know, as you know, there's scary moments in the car,

but you're not genuinely scared to do it. You know, we love what we're doing. And so I respected what I was in, and I just made sure that I didn't make any mistakes, me, that would cause a Gordon Smiley. Yeah. And that was the thing that was interesting to me is with stock car racing, we see crashes, and we see death, we see injury. We know there's death. We know there's injury, but we don't see it. you know, because of our cars and enclosure and, you know, visually, we're not a witness to the severity of someone's experience behind the wheel of a car, right?

But in IndyCar, when these cars come apart, you know, you can look at all of the imagery from the past in the 70s and 80s, it's in your face, you know, you as you, you're, these images of what happened. to these drivers, there's no denying it. Now, I imagine you can avoid it if you can, but with IndyCar, there's exposure visually to what could happen to you, you know. I can't imagine that would be, that would make it much, much more difficult to climb behind the wheel of the car and go out there and push it to the limits. We were insulated, I think, as stock car drivers, to the reality of what could happen to you. You know, you'd see a guy crash and, well, that, that crash killed that guy, but I don't really know details about why he died. Maybe something was wrong. You would make assumptions about how maybe something in the car wasn't correct about

his mounts or whatever, beat seatbelts and that and the other. But with IndyCar, you were, you were not insulated to how dangerous this could be. Is that absolutely true for IndyCar drivers, especially back in the 70s and 80s? It could be. It could be. Myself, okay, that was something actually your dad and I talked about, okay? And your dad would look at me and go, I don't know how you can drive those cars. Right. They're just so dangerous and, you know, you're out in the way, just pretty much what you just talked about. And I would look at your dad and I'd go, I don't know how you can drive those cars, you know,

because there's so much iron and everything. They didn't have breakaway lines back then. where we did where you know when I would see a stock car crash I'd see a ball of flame yeah and when I'd see an Indy car crash yeah there's pieces flying everywhere but there's no flame yeah okay and so it you know fire was it was a big thing for me you know and and so and I guess the reason why is because driving a sprint car one night I had the oil plug fall out and I lifted off the throttle and a big old ball of flame come up inside the car, you know, and it scared me to death. And he gets hot. Yeah, fast. Very fast. Okay. And so, um, no, I always felt safer in the Indy car than I did in the IROC car.

Oh, for sure. Whoa, really? For sure. That's crazy. Yeah. I, I always felt safer in that because the I rock car, you know, I hit some walls in that I rock car. And my, body was sore. You know, I had some sore ribs and stuff where in the Indy car, I'd hit harder and not have the bruises and so on. That's so fascinating because when I look at, when I'm just standing, you know, ignorantly looking at a car, it looks like, wow, if I crash this car, the same way I would crash a stock car, I feel like I would, I would, my body would, would be absorbing more of the energy. But you feel like it was the opposite. The, the source. The stock car, your body takes more of the hit than in the Indy car.

The Indy car is crushing those G-loads. It's absorbing those G-loads, not your body. It's the car. So it looks worse, but it's not. That's crazy. Then can I ask you, if we fast forward to the 1989 Indy 500, that to me was one of the most vicious hits of a wall. Never mind that you were racing for the wind with Emerson Field Apollity.

Right. But you clobbered the wall. Yeah, it hit hard. But that wasn't one of my biggest hit. That wasn't? No, no. And when the car stopped, you know, the left side's just pancake against the tub. There's nothing of that left side. And no, I got out of the car.

I had my right chin, my right or left shin. One of them went and hit the rack opinion steering. And so I had a little bruise on the top of my shin, and that was it. From the 89 crash? Holy crap. Yeah. No bruises, no nothing like that. Here it is on the screen.

He's he Emerson? And they're still side by side going into turn three. Ammo down low in the middle of the track, and Ammo may have it. They almost touch. He does touch wheels. And into the wall is Al Jr. Ammo continues on. He tried to trap me behind that lap car.

You weren't having that. No. And that's concrete. Yeah. Yeah, that's not the... So what was the hardest here? If that wasn't it? Hardest hit came in Phoenix, Arizona.

I was testing the Marlboro car out there in my first year in 94. We were doing a long run. It was at the end of the day. And I just kept getting faster and faster and faster on that full tank run. And right near the end, I'm coming off of turn four, right rear blood. The angle of the wall, it actually on the exit, and you may know that it comes back at you. Okay, I drilled that backwards where the angle comes back. So it almost head on.

Backwards. Almost head on backwards. The car didn't stop until I was in turn one. Okay. Mirrors told me that there was pieces raining down on the team just from a massive hit. Yeah. They were asking me if I was. okay and it had knocked the wind out of me and so I couldn't answer I I just couldn't

catch my breath so yeah that was a big hit both you guys in your test crashes blew a tire as well right right front and whole sidewalk came out that's a bummer when those mechanicals happen because they just surprised the yeah yeah you're just going along everything's great and then bah yeah then you're not you're absolutely not in control anymore long for the ride yes in an instant yep this thing's going somewhere photo finish with Scott Goodyear, went in the N.500, what does Indy mean to you? I know that's such a basic general blanket question, but we talked about the enormity of walking out on the grid before the race.

You've watched your family have their successes there. You're so badly wanting that success yourself. You talked about living your dream to get there. You finally accomplished that goal. So, like, what are the emotions when you cross the finish line? It was, it was, I tried my best to put it in the book. It's hard. What, what it really felt like.

And Jade and I went through a lot of that. There was just so much lifelong emotion to come in and hit me at once because I wasn't leading with a two or three second lead where I had the last five laps to think about it, okay, about winning. And, you know, I had. I had Scott Goodyear on my ass, and if I make one bobble, he's going to take it from me. And so it was all about driving. It was just, I was just focused on breaking the draft down the straightaways, and then watching him going through the corner and placing my car in front of him a lesson that your dad taught me in my Daytona 500, that I need to be looking in the mirror going in.

Yeah, which I never used to do, okay, until that day with your dad. And so, you know, I'm keeping him right there. And so finally the car went loose on the last lap, very last lap. It slid up, the back end slid up in turn three. And then when I went into turn four, when I just turned it, it just snapped out. So that was the first time I just gave it a quick blip like that. And that was the first time I had lifted for 12 laps. Wow.

It was all wide open and just driving, you know. And I came off a four and I looked in my mirror and I saw the runny hat on me. And I went, oh, man, I lost another one. Oh, no. I did. I lost another one. But we were able to get to the line first, you know. He would have, had that been the white flag lap, he would have passed me going into one.

You know, he had that, that, that, that, that, that, wrong of a run on me. Do you think you could have got him back? No. We were too equal. Scott Goodyear and I had actually been racing the way we race that in at the end for the last 50 laps for the last two stops. And what did us apart was lap traffic. So if Scott was in front of me, we'd catch lap traffic at the right time and his momentum was wrecked. Then I would pass him. and then if I ran up on some lap traffic him being behind me wrecked my momentum he passed me and I had just passed him when because of traffic and then within a half a lap Michael Andretti's slowing And so that's what caused the yellow at the end of the race there was Michael Andretti had us covered he was gone there there was he was in a whole other zip code

I mean, there was no race in him. And then he broke. And so our race for second place, what had been going on, is now for the win. Wow. So how was the rest, I mean, you cross the finish line. I mean, the elation, when I won at 8 on a 500, which I would say is my comparable experience, trying to win this race that my dad had won and biggest race of our season, relief was my biggest emotion.

Like, man, I'm thankful this is. I think I got this, right? I'm not going to go my career without this, right? I have this. I know the feeling, yeah. Yeah, it was same with me. Once I absorbed it, once, you know, the next day and the next week, and, you know, it was total relief. You know, I used to put it, I can now hold my head up high at Thanksgiving dinner.

Yes. I mean, and that's it, you know, it's just relief, yeah, totally. Is that because you guys are professional racers, and that? that's the biggest race or is that because you're dads? That's dads, I think. It's our, I think it's our dads, plus, you know, your... It's the dream. Yeah, it's a dream.

Yeah, it's a dream. You grew up from the very beginning, you know, living in that world and think that was the, that's the top of the mountain. And it is. Yeah, it is. And it is. I mean, in your case, your dad had won several. In your case, you had seen your dad... Try 20 years to get one.

Right, right. I imagine that probably was in your subconscious of us, right? If he took him 20 years, I'm half the man. man he is. In my mind, I'm like, he's, he's Zeus and took a 20 years. So I'm probably, and he was too. He was Zeus. That's a good way of putting it, you know.

Where did you and Dillard meet? Daytona at I Rock Race, my first I Rock Race. Did you guys have a pretty good relationship? Absolutely. And what was it like? Pupil and teacher. I mean, I made a point at my first. I rock race in Daytona in 86, I think it was, to go up and befriend Dale Sr.

And I did it. It was funny when I did it. He was standing as, and he was watching practice end for the NASCAR, for the cup cars. And he's watching them come in, drive by. And I went up and stood next to him and asked him what he was doing. And he looked at me and he goes, I'm looking at their ride heights. you know so tell me if you see one that is lower than that or one that's higher just tell me if you see anything different help me yeah help me watch him help me watch him and so that's what i started doing

there there there it is dale you know kind of thing and and then it just it it flours from there like i made a point to go out with him during practice as much as i could in the irock car you know because he didn't run very much. The NASCAR boys, they don't run the practices very much. They're mainly for the indie guys and else. And so, but every chance I got, I made a point to follow him and stick to him like glue. A lot like I did Mario and over in the indie cars. You know, I stuck to him like glue.

So how did the decision come about for you to run an attempt to run the day? Daytona 500. That all came about with, of course, wanting to do it. Okay. So you wanted, you didn't want to race, you didn't want to drive a stock car around Indy, but I guess your experience in Iraq had warmed you up to the idea of race in Daytona. Correct.

And it's the Daytona 500. You watched Foyt and Reddy. Correct. Those guys go there and win. Yep. My dad told me not to. You did? Oh, yeah.

My dad was totally against. against NASCAR. You can be clearly honest. Nobody's feelings are going to do. What he's told me, okay, he, in the 70s, there was a car owner named Rudy Hare, USAC, stock car. They would go and handpick some NASCAR races. They handpicked Riverside one day.

And he goes out and car goes through inspection fine, all that kind of stuff. he goes out and qualifies, puts it on the pole, and then afterwards he's decued because there wasn't one piece of tubing in the passenger door that had already been okayed. Right. You know, it was legal, and then he goes out, puts it on the pole, and now it's not legal.

And so dad just, he told me, he said, they will eat you up and spit you out down there, is what he told me. But you were successful in IROC. Yeah, so was he. Dad was successful in IROC. Yes, but IROC was a separate entity from NASCAR. I understand that, but I just, I mean, I don't know.

I mean, your success in IROC to me would have been convincing enough to let you try that. I had offers. I had offers. What kind of offers? Kenny Bernstein offered me a full ride at one time. At one time. Yeah, yeah. I could have done a deal with Rick Hendrick if I wanted to, you know.

Pinsky with Rusty. I could have done a deal there. Full-time rides? Full-time rides, yeah, yeah. These were just offers that you were turning down? Yeah. Wow. I'd ask my dad.

I go, Dad, what do you think? And he goes, don't do it. He goes, they'll just, they'll try to make you look as bad as they possibly can. Don't do it. Now, this is my dad. passed. Sure. With NASCAR in the 70s.

And then it started changing when some chief stewards got in there and they started leaving the doors open for the inspections and stuff like that. It all started changing then. And so it would have been good for me to go down. You would have not been treated exactly like your dad imagined. But I will say, I mean, you know, this brings me, this reminds me of when Mario won the 500. There's a story of

him, so he's out there running well, right? And outlasting everybody, but also has the speed and near the end of the race he's got a big enough lead and they've all, him and his teammate, have to pit

for fuel before the final before they get to the end of the race. There's a fuel stop necessary. And they held Mario in his pits for multiple seconds. Really? Yeah.

He comes down, they service the car, and the team held him. The idea of some people is that he was held there intentionally to allow the teammate to gain the time necessary to be able to get back to him and try to win the race. But he's able to go back out there and still win. And there's some conversation that there was a little, they didn't like the idea. Now, there's none of those conversations. surrounding Foyt's experience at Daytona with the Wood Brothers, where he wins at Daytona 500.

But, um, so Al had a negative experience as well. Dad, Ed. Yeah. And so, so there was this, there was this impression that, you know, you weren't really entirely welcome. Uh, but I will say, um, it changed. It changed. It changed.

When you came, uh, I can speak for myself as a little boy. Right. Um. that or a young man that um i was thrilled uh and and i'm i felt the energy uh was very similar around you know industry people but you know people that were fans but people that were in the inner inner circle of trust uh that everyone's so excited for you to be there and wanted you wanted so badly for you to factor in right to the to the you know you had speed you got mixed up a couple things.

But, yeah, it was a good experience for me, you know. And I learned. I learned a lot. I bet. That day, you know. But it was, it really was a good experience. And, and, you know, it was a time in my life that, that, you know, 36 races was, was a lot. Yeah.

Y'all ran how many? We were 18. Right. And so, you know, I've got my kids. My family's growing. It is a lot of racing. It is a lot of racing and a lot of work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so it was just in a time of life that, you know, I didn't really need to do that. So did that one day, Daytona 500 sort of scratch that itch for you? I mean, like that, it did what it needed to do, and you didn't have any desire to go do another NASCAR race? forget the full season stuff you've explained that but like you ran that one day 20500 right yeah but I actually I spent more time in the I rock cars and so for me

it was about going and testing when nobody's around and developing the car and just the sheer enjoyment of driving them and so on and I even said it back in the day you know I I I love the Indy car because it accelerates, it stops, it turns on a dime, you know, and the NASCAR, it doesn't accelerate that well, it doesn't stop that well, and it doesn't turn that well.

And so I want to be out when it's a Wednesday and you're there tested and there's no fans, no nothing, you're out there developing the car and it's just a pure enjoyment to drive. Yeah. You know, and that's what I was used to. What's the story about the backup car? Y'all showed up, had great speed. Then NASCAR, the car goes through tech or something. Some changes are made to the car, and you lost a ton of speed. Yeah.

It was a wink, wink, hey, man, we got a car in the shit, and the trailer that's a lot faster. Tell that story. Yeah, it was, we were running. We were running good. We had actually tested down at Talladega the week before we get to Daytona. I'm fast. I'm faster in practice. We go into tech prior to qualifying. And when my hood is, the roof of the car is at this height, the dam on the front was too low. So Waddell, what he did was he just raised the whole car in order to make the front dam legal. Now my roof's too high. It took

two tents off of me like that. I was practicing in the top 10. Now I'm barely making the show. Yeah. And so, you know, the night before the 125s, you know, I had Rick, Rick called me on the phone. And he goes, Al, well, I got a better car for you. And I go, well, how do I do that? Well, if anything were to happen tomorrow in the 125s, you know, that car would be ready for you. And I said, are you telling me to crash that? And he goes, no, no, I would never do that. And that's what he told me. He goes, I would never do that.

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, if anything were to happen, we've got a good car for you. And I went, okay. So at the start of the race, I was just kind of banging my way through. I didn't care about nothing. Finally, somebody got into my left rear and now the tire's smoke and the car's filling up with smoke on the inside. I just stayed wide open. I just said, okay, this thing will pop here pretty soon.

And it did. And so I barely just spun and hit. I didn't hit hard at all kind of thing. And the car was totaled. The car was totaled. And the backup car was the... And the backup car was the Kenny Schrader's backup. Codiac.

Yeah, from the clash or something. From the clash that won. Yeah. It was a fast car. Yeah. And so they wrapped that thing or painted it. It stayed white. Oh, it did?

And they just put my number on it, 46, and then put Vivalene. For the 500? For the 500? Oh, okay. I'd seen pictures of it, but I thought that they wrapped it. Actually wrapped it for the race. No, it stayed white. Really?

Yeah, they just took the Kodiak off and put the on the Vival. What happened in the race? We had a good race. We started at 43rd or something, 40th, something like that. Kind of same as Jacques. When I saw where he qualified, I went, I know that feeling. And Waddell told me, he goes, just do what I tell you to do and we'll be all right. I've got the strategy. Just pit when I tell you to pet and just, and I'll have you up front by the end of this thing. And I went, okay. And he did.

He had me running up front by the end of it. I was running fifth with 10 to go. And your dad, the lead draft went down to the bottom going into three, and your dad was near the back of it. And so he came up on the outside of me in the middle of three, maybe on the entry as soon as we pulled down, he stayed there. And I didn't know he was there. you know I was still looking for sure I'm looking forward and doing my thing up there and and and when I came off of four I just followed I just followed the the line in front of me right and clipped your dad your dad was there and spun me and and you know there was one thing that your dad was able to do and that was to protect his front in okay I mean he could crash me in the I rock car and still

win the race. His front end was still good. Yeah. You know, and so I don't think it, it damaged his car very much. If it did, it did it just a little bit, but, but it still, he wasn't, he didn't have the speed, the remainder of the race to go up there and challenge for the lead. Was that the one Del Jarrett won? Who won that? I didn't. You didn't. We know two people there. You and Dale Earnhardt didn't win the 93-500. Okay. Yeah. So it was, it was. At what point in your life are things starting to unravel a little bit in your personal life? I would have to say it had to have been around missing the show in 95. Yeah.

Oh, the Indy 500 when Missing the show. Penske didn't make it. It was the first real depression that I ever felt. Real. You know, now it didn't compare to my mom and dad getting a divorce. none of that you know so you know when when I was the the defending champion coming back to to qualify and and miss the show that was that was that was the worst thing that you know emotionally for you that that was the bottom yeah yeah yeah and what was what did you do um I

jumped into the drugs and alcohol is what I did I self-medicated yeah is what I did And so that marriage fell apart, you know, and it was on its way. You know, I'm not alone in my marriage when all this is going on. You know, Shelly's right there toe to toe, and this is going on. And so, you know, Shelly had a hard time. Shelly had a hard time with other people dying, you know, Jeff Krozenoff when he passed away. few others there that Shelley had a hard time with it. You know, Shelly, I don't think she ever really came to grips with it.

You know, it was, yeah, she was at the races when I first met her, but she wasn't a racer. She didn't grow up. That was like the first time she was ever at a dirt track, a sprint car race. So she, it was all new to her, and it was exciting and thrilling at first. but then when the ugly side of our business raises its head, it gets real serious, real fast. And I don't think Shelley ever really got settled with it within herself. For a wife to tell a race car driver, you know, before the race,

you know, if you get put in a wheelchair today, I'll take care of you. Yeah. You know, that's, I don't think a person is, is, you know, And I'd kind of look at her and go, what? Yeah. What are you talking about? Right. You know?

And so, and so it was, we were, we were a team, you know, we did stuff together. And so, you know, missing the show at Indy affected her as much as it did me, you know, kind of thing. And the marriage was, it just started, everything just started getting out of hand like it does. Yeah. And so this has been an ongoing struggle over the last, more than a decade for you. Sure. You've been to rehab.

You've... Three or four of them. So... Yeah, I have... My disease is substance use disorder, is my disease. And I have it today. Yeah. And the proof I have that I have it today is I can't quit the cigarettes.

I have not been able to quit smoking. Right. And because of that, I have substance use disorder. You know? And so the other stuff I've been able to definitely, how should I say, keep it at bay. Yeah. You know, keep it where it's not hurting me, you know. But and a lot of that, and really a lot of that is my newfound faith in Jesus.

that I never grew up with that. You know, I didn't go to church. You know, my church was the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Yeah. And, you know, I wished that, you know, when I was younger, that my dad went to church, but he didn't. Uncle Bobby didn't go to church. My mom did a little bit, but now she goes religiously,

and she works at the church in the library. on a daily basis. My mom really was the real big influence on me to believe in Jesus and be baptized. And, you know, since I've been doing that, I've had a whole new lease on life, you know. And so it's coming back in spades. It really is, you know. with Norma, I'm now just got married on September 30th, and she's a Christian. And, you know, so all that's new. All that's new, and I love it, and I love it. I'm curious, if you could unpack this a little further with, explain the faith part, because do you feel like there's an accountability that you didn't have before? Is it, is there,

Is there a purpose for you now to live up to a standard? Is that it? No, it's the exact opposite. Oh, explain that. It's the exact opposite. I'm forgiven for my sins. Yeah. And before my baptism, I didn't think that I could ever be forgiven.

I couldn't forgive myself for the things that I done. and I've done a lot of bad things under the influence, okay? And so hurt a lot of people, you know, friends and family. And, you know, so for me, you know, having faith in Jesus, and no matter what, I'm forgiven. I'm forgiven, and that has actually helped me go on to want to be better than than before. The book opens with you, I believe in your living room in a very vivid and really troubling scene for the reader, and that is you contemplating taking your life.

Yeah, I thought 95 was the worst time in my life. It turned out that on my 50th birthday in 2012 was the worst time in my life. Today, today, when I look back at my past, that, you know, that, you. year of 2012 was yeah that was what got you there um the the drugs and alcohol the behaviors the not being able to forgive myself um i was divorcing my second wife i had been seeing a girl in Albuquerque she had broken up with me nobody wanted to hang with me whatsoever you couldn't forgive yourself for what for everything that I had done you knew you knew the relationships you had ruined and you knew the hurt you'd caused on people and it kept going you kept piling that up and then and you're

looking at this going I can't it kept going actually one of another big hit for me was the first time I was arrested in 2002. Okay. I've had, because of the 89 thumbs up, you know, and sportsmen of the year and stuff, I've had sons that are now grown up and have their own sons, and they would come to me and go, I've used you, I've used that to help raise my son as far as sportsmanship. and so, you know, we love you for doing that and that sort of thing. When I got arrested in 2002, I was ripped off of that pedestal.

In my mind, nobody wanted to be a part of this, you know? And so with me, it was how many kids have I destroyed that image, you know? And it has to go into the thousands. It has to. And so I couldn't get over that. Talking about forgiving myself, that's what it was. It was hard. It was, you know, and so.

On the backside of having those type of thoughts, like having suicidal thoughts and thinking about, you know, you'd be better off if you weren't here, you get on the backside of that. Is there, were there moments of things are heading in the right direction? I mean, throughout the last, you know, 15 years, I know you made attempts to fix things. Have you been this close before to really having a grasp on everything? No, not like now. No, I've never felt this way in my whole life. Yeah.

And that's wanting to be better, wanting, wanting to live, okay? And this may go back to, you know, doing what I did for a living and, you know, watching, you know, the ugly side of our business, okay? And so I got married at such a young age and wanted to have a boy so that my dad's name would live past me. I would then go have the freedom to put everything on the wine in the Indy car and the race car everywhere, every at all times, not, and know that my son's going to live on. My dad's, my dad's name is going to live on. And so. So you were, you were thinking that because of having that son, you could, you could do whatever it took in the race car, risk your being.

and no matter what happened. Right. Right. And so you get later on in life and, you know, everything starts getting all twisted. Did you have trouble with the, did you have trouble with, was there any of this, did any of this have anything to do with facing the end of your career? That you're, you know, you're racing, racing. The realization that driving, racing, what's the, always going to be who you were? Did that play any role? It could have, Dale, I don't know. Yeah.

You know, I was, I can tell you, I was ready to quit when I quit. When I got it out of the car, I was ready to get out of the car. It was no longer fun for me anymore. What time in your life was that? When did that happen? In 2004, you were ready. I was ready. I was, I had an engineer tell me that I'm not.

going wide open and I need to be going wide open and I said I'm not I'm not going to do it for you yeah you know I'm not going to do it because you say to do it yeah so you know and I just was there what did you feel pressure of everyone myself included that wanted Alinsor Jr. to race forever because he was Alistair Jr. No no I never felt any of that yeah no like did you feel any did you did you feel a big pressure or a big weight for all the people that wanted you to get it right to you know to fix yourself like when when we saw you struggle and stumble did you feel a lot of like I can't handle these expectations of everyone wanting me to write this yeah I think I know where you're going with this and and

the time that I felt that when whenever I got in trouble in the past publicly yeah um the phone was silent. There was no friends calling me. There was no, it was silent every time. Whenever you would get, like when you would get arrested or anything public would happen, nobody was calling you saying, hey man, are you okay? It was dead silence. It was, it was dead silent. Now, the last time I got in trouble, which was in May of 19 in Indianapolis, nothing but calls and prayers that. Why is it? that different? What changed? I don't know what changed. It was, it was happening and I was going, wow, people actually care about me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I find that I'm not, I'm not,

disagreeing with you or disbelieving you, but I find it so hard to believe that nobody reached out to you or not, you know, I'm sure there was one or two, but I can't believe that they didn't come pouring in to try to say, hey, what can we do? No, were you too big, maybe were you too, were you too much on that pedestal so people didn't think that they could reach you or get to you? I don't know, it may have happened.

You know, my dad tried helping me. In the 90s, Rick Mears tried helping me. Roger tried helping me. How so? How are these people helping you? to, you know, do you realize you have a problem? They're talking to you then. Can I can't, is there anything that I can do to convince you to go get help?

You know? Did those work? Did those work? Like you said you've been in rehab three or four times. Mm-hmm. So they didn't work. No. What did this, what did this journey do with the relationship of your kids?

And the reason I ask is because you, you know, kind of went at length to describe what you're, what your approach to racing in life was, and that was to have your son and let the answer name continue so you could kind of run, not careless, but run without caution, let's just call it that, right? What did this do to the relationship with your kids then? Anytime that you have both parents with drug and alcohol issues, it's damn hard on the children.

Damn hard. Did they forgive you? I think they're getting there. I hope so, you know. But then there was a lot of nannies, too. There was a lot of hidden from that with the children. Once they got older, then there was no hiding it from them. Okay, but when they were young, it was, yeah, it was a lot of broken promises.

You know, I'm going to go skiing with you tomorrow and then you don't get out of bed. you know and you don't take them skiing tomorrow you know stuff like that it's just it's hard it seems as though you're suggesting that it's a process it's still ongoing today as far as that is a process still ongoing today especially especially with my daughters okay and my youngest son my oldest son not so much but but my daughters yeah it's an ongoing thing so have you forgiven yourself that's ultimately you you keep talking about forgiveness and and you talk about about how that leads to your faith. But I think that if you were in the pits and contemplating taking your life because

your words, I couldn't forgive myself for all the harm I'd done, have you forgiven yourself? Absolutely. And how did you get there? Absolutely. By being baptized and going to church and actually looking in someone else's eyes and asking them if they need help or what can I do for you today? You know, thinking about someone else other than myself. Yeah.

And so working with these kids in Future Star Racing, it does so much for me to be able to go out there and kind of talk about what I know, you know, and enjoy it and see the, you know, and enjoy it and see the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, gratification on them to see how they're absorbing it and so on. So it's a great thing, and I've truly been blessed, you know. I mean, I had a guy from Australia. I was doing an interview yesterday, and he goes, do you feel that you've got a second chance on life right now? And I said, no, dude, I'm pushing three or four chances. no not a second this this is three or four chances is it safe to say that this book is part of your

redemption process it could because because you were very forthcoming in this yeah it was so therapeutic for me to go through these stages with jade right i mean quite honestly there was there was several times that we were that i was doing my zoom meeting with jade i had to stop because I was crying. I couldn't go on because it was so painful to be, because I had to relive these things in order to get it right. I had to relive it, and there's some painful stuff. I mean, to hear you talk about this, it's starting to occur to me that this is really a confessional, right? And in the forgiveness process. It's a testimonial. But like to get, you know, to achieve forgiveness, it's you sort of got to come clean don't you you got to confess them and and this is where this is

what we're looking at and man it is it is something it's not it's not easy to read actually and right it's it's it's certainly if you feel you know compassion towards people and certainly you are in a place right off the bat um in this book too that really i guess i'm just impressed and and proud that you got out of it like you came out of that i know that i know that you feel that way and um absolutely it's a testimony i didn't think i was i didn't think i was and it was a psychiatrist that that truly helped me through that so i want to ask you about that so let's we want to get to what was the the thing that helped the most why did rehab not succeed don't know i just don't know you know there's uh you would there was one point where you came out of rehab

and literally got a drink the moment you were out. The day I came out. Yeah. Yeah. My second wife, Gina, she said, what are you doing? I said, well, I'm making a drink. She goes, why? I go, because I haven't had one for 30 days.

I want one. So after 30 days of having sort of this, you know, them trying to shift that thought process. It wasn't really about that, that particular rehab. I was living in Vegas. I was doing three and five-day bingers, okay? It was, it was. During rehab? No, this is, this is, I'm living in Vegas.

And that rehab, that money had been spent in 2003 when my dad forced me to go to this place in Malibu, okay, that he paid for. And then because I had my broken pelvis, they couldn't keep me there. And dad didn't understand this. Dad thinks rehab is a body shop that you put someone in, they get fixed, and they come out, everything's cool. Right. Okay, so I had been in one prior to that, and it was AA-based. And so my stepmom, Susan, found a non-A-based rehab-and-so let's try that kind of thing. and so I hurt myself up in New Mexico on a four-wheeler, broke my pelvis,

and came out of the hospital like in two days because it wasn't, it was fractured. It wasn't bad enough for surgery. So they, I asked if I had to stay in the hospital and they said, no, you don't. You're just going to be in a lot of pain for a little while. And so I leave the hospital and I find my mom and my dad. in the hotel room. They come by the hotel room the next day, and they're shipping me to rehab in California,

and they're not going to take no for an answer. My dad is not going to take no for an answer. What's that look like? What's that look like in that room? You're going. They're in my hotel. They're in your room. They're in my room.

I'm in bad. I'm in bad. You're living in a hotel in Vegas. No, no, no, no, no. I had a home in Vegas. At home in Vegas? Now, back it up to 2003. So when I went to this rehab in, it was 2005, I'm sorry.

So get the timing. So the rehab, my dad ships me to this. He takes me, and delivers me to this rehab. I stay there for three days. They kick me out because I have to have the pain medicine that has been prescribed to me. Okay. So they tried to tell my dad and me when I was checking in, they go, we really don't think you should be here.

You should go home and get well and then come back. From your injury? From my injury. Gotcha. Because you need this pain medicine right now. Yes. And we've got six or seven people in here trying to get off of this pain medicine right here that you need to be taken right now.

Okay. My dad didn't understand. He goes, no, he's staying here. I don't care. So I'm there three days. They won't let me bathe. They won't let me shower. They won't let me clean myself up.

Because it was too risky for the insurance. They wouldn't let me near a bathtub or anything because, you know, I have this broken pelvis. And then I couldn't get to any therapy whatsoever. I couldn't get to any of the classes that's going on because I could. can't I can't walk. Right. I'm stuck in bed. So anyway, I leave there and I call my dad.

He's upset. I'm back in Vegas. In my home in Vegas, he's upset. And he wants his money now, now. That he spent on that rehab. That he spent on that rehab. He wants it from who? Me.

All right. What's going to happen? He got the money. He came to you and got it. No, I sent him a chat. Yeah, I said him a chair. Okay, you got it. I'll pay you, tell me what the number is.

And it was big. It was a big number. And it went. So then I instantly call up the rehab and I go, I want my money back. And they go, no, you're not going to get any money back. It's not the way it works. Not the way it works. We're here for you when you get better.

We're here for you. Come back. Come back. And so I came back two years later in 2005. from, you know, bingers in Vegas and all that kind of stuff. And so you finally went to this. So I went to this rehab in Malibu, came back, but only to dry up and to learn more about my disease. Yeah.

Not to quit drinking. Gotcha. So. So what did work? What fixed you? You said it was a therapist, psychiatrist that said something. The psychiatrist with the suicide, with the suicide, I'm not fixed by any means. Like I said earlier, I have substance use disorder and I'll have it for the rest of my life.

And so the psychiatrist just simply told me that I do not have depression, that everything in his training and so on, that, yeah, I feel depressed and I feel like, you know, suicide, have suicide thoughts. and all those things, but I don't have depression. And he said, there's a difference. And he said, you just got to pull through this. You got to pull through this. And I go, I can't eat, I can't sleep, I can't do anything. Please give me something to help me with my depression. And he goes, Al.

If I give you anything, it's just another drug that's going to go into your system that you've been doing for the last 20 or 30. years of the self-medication. This would just be a different drug. And I don't want to do that. You have to live through this. You have to. That's all there is to it. And so, okay, okay. So it was slow. It was slow. Yeah. I know you got a heart out because you've got to get to the airport and take a flight. but I wanted to tell you, you know, you had a lot of people reach out to you in this last, you know, several years to support you. And we're like Michael said, or like Mike said, we're so thankful to see you today and see you in great health.

I'm thrilled for this book and what it's going to do for you personally. And I'm glad that you had a great experience with my friend Jade and create. reading it. But I think that, you know, we're meeting you today while you're sort of embarking or in the middle of this process. And we'd want to wish you nothing but the best of luck in continuing your recovery, repairing these relationships that mean so much to you. But I think you're also going to learn in the next several years for the rest of your life that this story that you've told in this book is going to help so many people. You talked about when you, you know, when you're able to look at somebody and say,

can I do something for you? This book's going to do that. And that's going to make a big difference in your life. You know, I've had some experiences myself. Writing my book about concussions is a very small example of what I think this book's going to do. I've helped people, you know, get some help on that end. You're going to save some lives. You're going to get people to change their life.

styles and change things they're doing that are detrimental to their health. And they're going to come to you. I hope so. Oh, it's going to. I hope so, Del. It's going to happen. I hope so. It's going to happen.

And in the next five, ten years, you're going to have people come to you and say that you save their life. And I think that's going to have a very, very valuable impact on you, man. You are an amazing person. I mean, your family, the history. So are you. So are you. Well, I was such a huge fan of your racing career.

but ever since then, watching you go through this process over the last couple of decades, I have thought about you. I've pulled for you. I've prayed for you. I'm so glad to be able to sit across this table and see you today. I want to say thanks for coming and sharing with us, and I hope that you have a great time going around and talking about this book. Yep, of course.

Yeah, and I'd love to come back. We want you back. I've been watching your career and all that stuff. We didn't even, we didn't even chip away at the history and the big giant rock that is your life and career. We'll come back. We're definitely going to have you back. If you miss your flight because of us, you can come back today even if you're like that. I mean, we just throw that out there.

Well, thank you. All right, Atlanta Jr. Thank you, buddy. You got it. Thank you, too. All right. All right, let's fire up the Ask Junior machine. And it says we are.

live. All right, we're live here at the Dale Jr. download the Bojangles studio for the ass junior part of the show. And we told you last week that Leah was doing her last show. And we have Hannah Newhouse here this week, really doing a great job of filling in and helping us out. And she's gathered, gathered your questions for today's Ask Junior. And we're excited about what you might have for us, Sarah.

Hannah, go ahead. All right. So the first one is we've kind of talked. talked about it a little bit beforehand, but what steps can NASCAR take to eliminate the flat tire problem with these next gen cars? Could they reevaluate the wheel and tire combo? That question comes from Matt. Yeah, I think that they probably would do better off by looking at the wheel and the tire. I've seen a lot of suggestions. We've got to be careful about this. Whatever changes they may or proposed to do to the car could affect the awesome product and racing that we saw on the

racetrack. One of the things that I noticed during the race was a lot of the cars are way up in the air on the front end. All right? We've begged for years to get these cars off the ground, to unseal them from the racetrack. And we thought forever, we thought, man, well, that's impossible. You can't put the toothpaste back into the tube because engineers will just figure out a way, you know, no matter what you do with the rules, they'll figure out a way to get them sealed back to the ground. Well, the idea now is, after watching that race, with the diffuser on the back of the car, getting the cars a little bit up in the air

and allowing more air underneath, getting the backs down so that that air begins to speed up as it gets toward that diffuser, is creating a lot of overall downforce for these cars. But it's also, maybe, maybe, you have to ask the drivers, allowing them to race closer together, not be, you know, the dirty air is always going to be there, but maybe it's not as bad as it used to be.

You know, if the car's up in the air and not sealed off, you don't have a ton of down force on the front of the car. It's not really working like it typically would with the splitter right on the ground. So maybe when they do get in traffic, there's not such a massive shift in the balance of the car. But anyhow, we've got the cars off the ground. We've got them unsealed. It's what we wanted. Now, it remains to be seen.

Have the teams go forward and how they continue to set these cars up if that stays the same. But if you change the bottom of the car, raise anything up off the car, the ground, take anything away, shorten that diffuser, you may undo some of what we've done that's unsealed the cars or made the cars better when they're not sealed to the ground on the nose. So that's the only thing I'm worried about. Like when you go changing the bottom of the car, you might hurt the actual racing product. So something with the tire, if possible, is maybe the better route, figuring out a way to get interliner in there, some way for the guys to get back to the pits, a run flat, if you will,

if that's even possible. So that's another thing. So if they make a stiffer sidewalk that allows the drivers to somehow survive to the pits if they did get a flat or spin out, if they make the tire where it's harder as far as when it spins out, it doesn't spin and rip the tire or grind the tire to the air. All of that is really going to affect the product or the racing in either a good way or a bad way. So, you know, it definitely needs to be well thought out. Not a quick, you know, not a quick fix.

Not a, you know, be careful about this one because it could hurt the actual racing product. And we, you know, judging by everybody's feedback, that was really a great racing product on Sunday. All right, another question. We've actually had a lot of people that are chiming in on the chat on YouTube here. They want to know what's going on with your guys as apparel. Would you like to clue anyone in on maybe why you guys have switched outfits is what I'm being alluded to here? We haven't switched, have we? I just grabbed the first thing out of my closet.

What are you talking about? This was hanging. I mean, yeah, I don't know. This is just typically what I wear. Everybody knows I'm a big George Southern fan. Huge. There's no big surprise. Mike's a filter time subscriber

likes a product. You know, I like clean air. He guys are plus. You all clowns. I'm glad they noticed it. You know, I'm glad they pay attention to what we wear. They're wearing. Right. How we present ourselves. They do not miss a thing, according to this. So the next one here is

from Higgie. A great moment yesterday was when Matt Kenseth keyed up and chatted with Joey Lugano during a caution bringing an old rivalry full circle on live TV. For you, what rival would you least expect to hear key up on your radio and talk to you during your race. Kyle Busch. Yeah. You know, that would be pretty funny for me to have anybody that I was at odds with come across

the radio during a broadcast. It was a great moment. And I thought Matt did a great job in the booth. You know, I was, I thought he, I thought he was a good, you know, balance with Clint. And Matt, the great thing having Matt in the booth is he's got a lot of new ideas. And the way he sees the race, even though he's, you know, been out of the car a little bit, he's still very aware of what he's seeing and why he's seeing it. And he's picking up on a lot of new things that we're all learning this next-gen car together. We're all learning about what these guys are dealing with, what drivers are facing. But he was fast on the, he was a fast study.

And I thought he did a great job. I also love the Saturday booth with Lugano and Blaney. And Adam Alexander did a great job of keeping them corralled, but also allowing them to have fun. Man, they were laughing and joking and very honest. What a great listen that was on Saturday with those two guys. So, you know, and you can't put Blaney in there with just anybody. I don't know.

For some reason, him and Joey seemed to, I think they spent enough time around each other. they're comfortable, you know, jibber jabber and goofing off. You put people in there that don't spend time together, and you're really getting to know the guy, and it's quite awkward. So that was pretty cool. I enjoyed the broadcast. I believe Blaney even gave us a Dale Jr. download shout-out. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. He said that we were going to be talking about our teammates' dust-ups. Yeah. He was right. Yeah. All right. The next one comes from the side pocket. kid. I know I racing did its version of a Chicago street course. It's rumored that an actual

event could be in play. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I watched the, I watch a little bit of the IndyCar weekend at St. Pete. And while, I guess I need to ask, what's the, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's fun about watching cars race around a street course? I don't, I can't answer that question for me. I can't sit here and go, man, I really wish we had a street course because I don't know why, you know, why street courses are better or different. What's different about a street course as opposed to a road course like Watkins Glen or Sonoma? You know, why do, what do drivers think about street courses? I know nothing about them. And so they look challenging, difficult, frustrating a bit.

watching a driver try to figure out how to navigate them is it's fun because you see that the drivers are struggling they're frustrated it's frustrating to sort of work around there but that's on you know that's with indie lights and indie cars and I will say what you know my experience in the virtual world on i racing with the Chicago course didn't make me more excited I didn't think that our cars You know Went around there very well But that's that's the virtual world

And the real world's gonna be a little different So I'm still not I'm not eager for it I'll be honest I'm not I'm short track Give me more short tracks We added Multiple road courses last year

We got what seven road courses now Or we had seven last year I don't know how many we got this year We got enough We didn't add more short tracks. Dirt Bristol don't count. We already have Bristol.

I don't care for the asphalt, dirt, concrete. You didn't add a new track. The clash don't count. That's not, I want a new short track. I want a, you know, I want a North Walesboro of Nashville Fairgrounds, a South Boston. I want a legit short track added to the schedule. And so that's my focus when it comes to, you know, we're on a rant. But anyways.

Rant on, man. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I mean, Chicago Road Court. go back to the Chicago Oval. Damn. Great racetrack. I'd rather go race there instead for going to Chicago. I was going to say that kind of actually segue is a good question that came in on the chat just a second ago from Stubbs Cupseries.com.

He said if you could pick a track somewhere between the 50s, 60s and 70s, whether it's still thriving or not, to add back onto the NASCAR circuit in an ideal world, what would it be and why? A track to add back to the schedule? Yep. Well, I mean, I think, do y'all? go ahead and type in to Hannah on what that answer is. I think all y'all can answer that one for me.

Oh, hold up. This is a game now. Oh, yeah. I'm thinking. Someone said Anderson Speedway, Old Sutton Valley Speedway. But they didn't run there. Rockingham. We knew that one was going to pop up.

That's not. If we're talking about bringing back a track, it has to be a place they drove at in the 60s and 70s. We got Hickory, Norcksville, Nashville. Nashville Fairgrounds. I'd say Greenville Pickens. Nashville Fairgrounds. above everything.

Nashville Fairgrounds is at the top of my list. Yes. And I think Wilkesboro is second. I need some short tracks, man, in my life. I need to see these guys beating on each other and mad and, you know, somebody getting spun out on the last lap, off the nose of somebody else's car, and the fans right on top of all of it. And just, you know, I need to see.

I need more of that in my life. you know south boston and and and some of these other you know tracks like that have their place i think in our top three series i don't know if it's for exfinity or or trucks um you know indapolis raceway park such a great little racetrack um i wish the xfinity series was still going there my sister as an owner loves us being at the big track it's you know we're definitely going to get a sponsor more excited about that than sponsoring our car over at irp but For me as a fan and what I enjoy to watch, those short tracks definitely beat them out. And continuing the short track conversation, Joseph Tolne said,

outside of the grandfather clock at Martinsville Speedway, what do you think is the coolest racing trophy? And would you bring an old school trophy back? The trophy from Bristol is really cool, very tall. I was really short when I was a little boy. Most little boys, that thing's taller than that. average 10 or 12 year old that Bristol trophy and dad had five or six of those things sitting up on when he built he built his last house he had this long shelf when he walked in the front door and looked to

the right and all of the all of the trophies as Bristol trophies sit up there and uh I just always wanted one of them it was so big you know most trophies that you would win were under three foot tall and they fit in this sort of you know they fit in this idyllic idealist sort of vision of what a trophy size is, right? Basically, most of the trophies that we get given today or we see one today, they're creative. They match whatever sponsor is promoting the race that day. But they fit in this sort of, you know, box of two to three foot. But this Bristol trophy is like, you know, five foot tall.

This thing's massive. Didn't your dad win that big old, did he win the big old bear at Atlanta? I'm trying to remember if it was him. But remember Atlanta, they give you this giant freaking bear? If I was going to bring a trophy back, I would bring back the championship trophy that we gave away in the Winston Cup days. I forget the last year that they gave away that wooden trophy. But the trophy we have now is definitely a beautiful trophy, but it's that image of sustainability. When you see it, you know it.

like when that trophy pops up on the screen oh that's that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's a martinsville clock right and and and i know when we change sponsors and we change eras and and whatever something changes that triggers this new design somebody's got to put their new spin on their you know their impression of what this you know a modern take and uh we i like that you know i like that trophy that we gave away for years is still grand enough. It's still cool enough. And you know what it is when you see it. There's no mistaking that that is a Winston Cup trophy, championship trophy. The only way to get it is to be the champion. And so if I walk in, if you, if you take a fan, an average fan, even me, and you walk me into the champion's house, he's got to tell me

which one's that championship trophy? Hard to argue that. Which one's the championship trophy? Oh, that one? Oh, all right. I couldn't point it out of a lineup. But if you saw the Winston Cup trophy, championship trophy, that wooden big thing, you knew it.

Everybody knew what that trophy was. Everybody knew how to get one. I always appreciate two short track racing trophies, like the Rattler 250, where they make you stand in victory lane with the rattlesnake. And they put it, I'm like, I don't know that I'd want to win that race. I might hit the break. the start finish line. Run second and hope you don't win by disqualification.

Yeah. Maybe she run third. Just in case. Just in case. Philly Jesse said, I know how much you love music. Has Dirty Mo thought of expanding and adding a music label one day? Dude. So for years, I was riding into work today thinking about this very thing.

I've begged Mike for years to be able to weave music into a music. our shows some way somehow and we've done it in the past so uh i was a big fan of uh dangerous summer still am uh when they were started making music again i i forced mike into putting some of that stuff on the back end of our shows probably you know some people liked it maybe other people skipped right through it but um i visualize me and mike and us as a group here our i visualize us when we're at our best as your favorite morning show group of you know when you're riding into work and you're listening to the morning show when we're at our best i think that's who we are right we're we're we're a we're a morning show news talk radio whatever it is but i would love to you know

in my in the perfect world we're we're you know we're dropping songs into what we're doing right that's never really going to happen in our podcast stop never say never i've had you see i say I don't tell you all the conversations I have and all the things I have planned. That's not nearly as far away as you think it is. See, we're about ready to drop the bomb that I just signed a singing label. Mike Davis just signed me. In fact, this is your audition. Go ahead.

You got 10 seconds. Just kidding. I can sub host, but I can't sing. American Idol. So what are you talking about here? I'm not going to go any further. Come on, man. Of course not.

No, I'm not going to go sit there and talk about it. I'm just saying that that's not that far off. I've always daydreamed about being a disc jockey or what it would be. be like to be, you know, not a, I don't want to sit on, I don't want to be on talk, you know, I don't want to be on FM radio all day, but I've always day dreamed about having like a specialty show, like a, I tried to pitch one to Mike one time about, hey man,

what, could I do a music driven podcast? It was like an hour. Here's my favorite 10 songs this week. Yes. Do you remember why we couldn't do exactly your vision? Because it's legal. It's illegal. That's what I said.

It's illegal. Illegal. It'll copyright. Right, right. You know, there's these little, you know, production. You're not allowed. Ah, come on. We could have played, you know.

Let me promote your music. I'm just one. I'm only wanting to tell everybody to listen to this song. That's why I said, hey, you know it would be fun. People wouldn't want that. You like, you like. How come artists wouldn't be like, hell yeah. Because they also like to be paid.

Upcoming artists would like it. Well, that makes them more popular and gets their song out there. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, mind paying a little bit of rights to be able to promote their music. Well, that's what we would have to do. And by the way, again, I just want to say that's a realistic thing that we can be, you know, seeing on our platform. To do that.

Because, you know, I think you like to have people go, hey, who's that band? Because I think that's what you get a kick out of. So, like, you've discovered some song or band that now everybody else in the room likes, and you just want us to ask you about it. Yeah, I am the guy that you absolutely don't want to start a conversation about music with because you're going to get your 20 text messages of all these links to this song and that song. But I like that. I mean, you introduce me to some music.

Some people do, but other people are like, hey, man, I really just wanted to know the name that one song. I don't want to know about everything you downloaded this week. But that's how you learn new artists. Yeah. I agree. You got to be ready. It's time and a place. You got to be willing to accept all of the...

See, do you use Spotify? Huh? See, I think that you should make a shared Spotify, like a public playlist. I got one. Okay, see so then people can see what Dale's downloading. each week on Spotify. Oh, see, I'm just late to the game. Sorry, guys.

But no, I don't publicly promote it. Okay. But we've done, he's done for sponsors. I can't remember who it was. But there's been some Spotify playlist that he's contributed. Okay. And when we do the big network, when our races are on NBC, sometimes the producers will reach out to us and say,

hey, what songs do y'all would y'all like? I'll give you, Dale, you can have five songs to pick. Yeah. So when we go to commercial or we come back from break, that song will be playing. That's really fun. That's cool. It's as close as I get to being a DJ. Because when you're doing the race in the booth, you're like, this is a funny thing.

So when we're doing the race in the booth and a song plays, if everybody thinks it's a crappy song, Rick Allen will go, that's definitely juniors. During the race, he'll hold the button down and only where we are talking just to each other and go. You definitely pick that one. Is he right? He's right. No, he'll do it on purpose. He'll know you didn't do it, but it'll be like a slow song or something. He'll be like, yeah, that's junior.

That's funny. It's funny. It's some of the stuff that goes on the booth, you'd be surprised. Anyhow. Hannah. Yes. I want to add one thing. Was that the last question?

That was the last question. I want to say if anybody's on this Ask Junior live stream right now and you're going to Vegas, we will see you this weekend because we've got the 30 Mo Media Ultimate at Las Vegas experience at Vegas. I hope there's some people on the stream right now that are going because we are looking forward to it. It's going to be a good time. And I also want to just tease something.

I'm very close, very close, not quite yet, but very close to doing the same thing for the Bristol Dirt Race, which is just, you know, it's not far off. However, if you were one of the many people that said, hey, we would love to go do this, but it's just too far, Vegas is on the West Coast. we need to be on the East Coast, you're about to get your wish, and so be looking forward on our social media platforms. We have some people in the chat that are going. By the way, I'm available for Bristol Dirt, just in case you needed to know that.

Well, come on. Bring the booth here. Yeah. There's a price for it. You just, you know, you buy a ticket. I love that. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

I'll just put that on my invoice. Looking forward to it this weekend. We'll see everybody out there in Vegas. That's right. Hey, great job, Han, on all the questions. Appreciate her being here today to help us out. Hey, Dale. close.

It was a show. Mike, that was pretty incredible. Great show. Amazing. Yeah. Lived up to expectations. It did. You know, knowing everything that Al's been through and knowing what's all in this book,

I was really, I felt like we were under a ton of pressure, you know, to check a bunch of boxes. But I feel like we did a good job. We definitely got to get him back. You can't fit everything this guy's been through and everything he's accomplished in his life into one podcast. But like most of our guests, we're going to have. to have to have him come through again for a second run. Hannah did a great job. Thank you, Hannah.

Everybody, can she come back? Absolutely. I mean, Hannah, make this a... Listen, I have been wanting to be and Hannah talk a good bit, and I love to develop some stuff for her that doesn't, is it backup roles or fill in roles? Hannah is that talented. She's been just picked up by Dirt Vision, and is that officially the name of the company? Yeah, yep.

So I work with a, well, World Racing Group in the World of Alps. That's right. So she's got a full-time gig, but you know what? Busy, busy. We can find something. So thank you for being here. I love anytime we get to work with you, and you're awesome. So, yeah, let's do this again.

Awesome. I appreciate it. All right, everybody. Have a great week, and we can't wait. Next week is the DEI Days. You know, we're basically taking all the best moments from all the conversations, from all the people that we've had at this table to talk about our experiences at Dailen Hart Incorporated, all of that,

packages into one podcast next week. You're not going to want to miss that. We'll see you. Check out, check out, Dirtymo Media. Check out Dirtymo Media. Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.